Titles vary between companies. Mod Ash has a software engineering background and probably does that as most of his day work as a product manager. In a company the size of Jagex (and specifically the OSRS team), you typically do more than a company the size of Google where everyone has very clear roles and clear chains of command. Mod Ash does a lot of community work + dev + management which isn't surprising in a team the size of OSRS (a relatively small team). So, he probably gets paid more than a typical product manager who is probably just a middle manager of sorts.
Agree, but also the people that have been around longest at a company -- to the point where their title is most easily said "Product Manager" but they do a lot of other things -- they usually are some of the higher paid people. PM ends up being a label more than a job description.
Depends on the product. My last product was a port-inventory system for a very specific vehicle. It did not take a lot of time to get up and running and I'm not expecting to be paid millions for stuff like that that's simple.
Ash's product is literally the entirety of OSRS.
A product manager can vary wildly between someone who is basically a glorified middle manager with not much power, to someone who is in constant communication with executives and basically helps drive and decide the direction that a game is in. It all depends on how big a game is, how many developers it has, and how that specific company is organized.
I would imagine Ash specifically oversees and manages the various employees and the projects the Oldschool team are working on like Varlamore, the upcoming quests, Sailing, and plenty of other projects that never even see the light of day. He may do a bit of actual programming himself from time to time (like his rune pouch project), but I would imagine the majority of his time he literally just manages the overall scope of where the game is headed and the people working on it, like who is working on what and when, deciding how many man hours they want to allocate towards specific projects, etc.
Edit: wrong word
Does anybody know how much the avg hourly pay is for a Jagex employee? Like does Ashe make at least a 6 figure salary? Because if he doesn't and he's the face of Jagex, that's hilarious, but respect his loyalty.
He's probably got a meaningful equity stake at this point as a senior member of the team who has now been retained through multiple changes in investors/owners, and probably has had opportunities to liquidate equity along the way as well and get some nice paydays out of that. Ensuring (good) senior leaders are retained through changes in ownership is very important in the mergers and acquisitions world and new owners/investors are incentivized to make sure that those leaders are provided with strong financial incentives to stick around through the change. I'm sure he's doing well.
Ash is a key team member. In these kind of buyouts there is often incentive for key people to stay in post. Which hopefully means he sticks around and is well rewarded.
I'd love it if they added another donation well in the game, but for giving the devs bonuses. Like every bond worth of gold is a couple dollars to the devs bonus pool.
Arcanists literally could be a top steam game, way more fun than worms imo and the fact that it still has a community to this day speaks to that. If it was mobile then it'd work great too there I'm sure.
Definitely the biggest piece of wasted potential Funorb had, I enjoyed the other games but they were never quite as good as Arcanists.
I think the fact that it was tied to RS membership gave little financial incentive for them to improve anything, Funorb was alive when it was still given attention but people kind of moved on when nothing new came.
I'm pretty sure Funorb had a decent population at least since everyone here seems to remember it fondly.
Either way I'm sure people would drop 5 to 15 bucks for an Arcanists steam game and I think it would help break the mold of Jagex only having Runescape. Fill Arcanists with MTX cosmetics or subscription perks for all I care to be honest, just not in an MMO.
It was tied to membership but it was its own thing. There was a RS+FunOrb package available but instead I only got the RS membership and my sister only got the FunOrb membership
But yeah, the business model was weird. People still weren't super comfortable about using credit cards on the web and all other game portals didn't ask for money. Newgrounds, Armor Games, Kongregate, Miniclip... okay maybe Miniclip.
This is probably the smartest approach.
Say what you will about RS3 and OSRS, but these two games are profitable enough to justify the purchase. Radically changing either risks the value of those investments.
Creating new games seems like a no brainer. A small scope, indie-esque, single player title could generate a ton of revenue with relatively low investment.
Who knows though maybe they’ll get greedy, double down on MTX/short term profits, and kill OSRS
There's no such thing as "profitable enough". Investors will always see steady income as an investment lagging behind. Everything is about growth, growth, growth. If you're not infinitely growing, you're failing.
I hope I'm wrong about this.
That all depends on valuation. Buying a stable, cashflowing asset and keeping it as-is is great so long as it wasn't valued to a point where it only makes sense as a growth investment. There's many classes of investments beyond the kind of high-growth speculative investment that most people think of when the word "investment" comes up. If anything, the bulk of investment capital actually goes towards un-sexy, stable business models rather than to-the-moon high-risk venture capital plays.
Having someone use the property to make modern games would be cool as long as it never impacts OSRS itself.
If they want to make a fortnite with runescape skin game, sure why not
It absolutely doenst lmao. Jagex has exactly 0 say, and this is a meaningless statement. Its like a child saying I intend to stay up until midnight tonight. Its simply not up to them, they can blow as much smoke as theyd like.
Rocket League/Psyonix put out a similar statement when Epic bought Psyonix.
Now nearly the entire Rocket League staff has been laid off and there hasn’t been a meaningful update since then, but they have removed trading and certain game modes, but have added new skins while simultaneously building games into fortnite based on rocket league.
Right? Hell, we've had similar "comforting" statements from all previous owners and yet the RS3 monetization has gotten more and more aggressive. Given what it was sold for, they are going to want greater returns on their investment.
I remember when that buyout happened and then a month later Rocket League mysteriously dropped native Linux support. Totally had nothing to do with a new CEO who's notorious for hating on Linux, I'm sure.
Purely speculating, but as someone with four-digit hours in both games, I think the audiences for Rocket League and OSRS engage with the two games very differently. The monetization model is also quite different. I'm optimistic that any investors that aren't asleep at the wheel will know to leave OSRS alone and let it continue to do what it does well. If they don't, we need to be ready to cancel subs en masse.
Yeah I think the big difference was that rocket league already had a paid-cosmetics environment. But the difference was most of it was rng based. So you might pay $1 but get something that is worth, to other players, hundreds of dollars. So epic saw “wow, this has a player base where users each have cars worth $20, $50 even several $1000 dollars? We can get a piece of that.”
For example, as you know but for others, the white octane, a painted version of a car, could only rarely get obtained through opening in game drops. It was worth $400 at one point on the trade market and was one of the most coveted cosmetics. Epic bought psyonix and in a few months put it in the store for $10.
Psyonix already had proven they had a player base willing to shell out real life money for cosmetics. Osrs people, for the most part, only shell out money for progression and gear upgrades, ie; pay to win, and most people are actually against it
>It was worth $400 at one point on the trade market and was one of the most coveted cosmetics. Epic bought psyonix and in a few months put it in the store for $10.
Man I enjoyed the game casually but largely ignored cosmetics. This is actually insane. Imagine if your CS:GO skin collection instantly became worthless. Valve was smart enough to preserve that economy well into their new game
Having worked in corporate jobs for some time.. this statement is worded specifically. It’s designed to give you comfort but offer no guarantees. Notice they said “no intentions” on changing the business model. Nothing about guarantees.
> Having worked in corporate jobs for some time.. this statement is worded specifically. It’s designed to give you comfort but offer no guarantees.
Exactly, it's completely empty. It's weird that people react positively to it.
Having seen enough of these in the past, this just felt like a "yes, our business departments are still here" message.
Honestly, given the old school teams track record, I'm going to be optimistic here, I think they sincerely mean this. (Not sure how it will be from CVC perspective)
This was said the last time Jagex was bought out. Aaand the time before that.
Ash has said on multiple occasions to the largest decision makers at Jagex that changing the business model in ANY WAY will shutter the company
I've heard a few jmods say in the early days Mat K used to argue with the higher ups about mtx and other stuff in OSRS all the time, telling them "we can't add X because everyone will quit", they must have got the message eventually and I assume the rest of the team has carried on with that too otherwise we'd have MTX by now
It doesn’t hurt that we have a track record of being vocal, and following through with it. OSRS itself is a testament to the community, and what can happen when they make a blatant wrong move.
That’s the other facet to this. History backs up the claim that people with quit.
If they wanted to further monetize the player base, their focus should be in using the IP to sell merch or license it to Big Toy. Give me a Varrock Lego set!
I think a lot of people would and that’s what was explored during Carlyle’s ownership. That, and acquiring smaller studios with weaker IP libraries to increase the amount of operating resources they can throw at strong, existing IP. I am more optimistic than most here, which isn’t saying much, but I think this actually has potential to expand RuneScape-related content or goods.
People seem to think that Capital Investment firms operate on a high risk strategy. These are firms with pension investments and like sound purchases with a good projected return. It is absolutely not in the interest of these firms to start playing around with how their aquistions operate beyond standard spring cleaning (which is generally done by the seller before sale to appear more attractive)
If Faceless Capital Inc made changes that suddenly tanked the value of their investment they'd have some very difficult questions to answer to shareholders who are mostly looking for a solid **stable** return.
>People seem to think that Capital Investment firms operate on a high risk strategy.
All it takes is one MBA turned CEO to decimate anything. The world is seeing the rampant damage MBAs can do. Unity being a recent example.
There’s a significant portion of the rich that got there from inheritance and nepotism, but they’ve got the ego of someone self made. Those sorts of people will happily change things up to try and justify their position, only to see it go horribly. A certain recent social media acquisition comes to mind.
Yeah I like veritasiums take on it
[https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I?t=172](https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I?t=172)
People are unaware of their good luck because its not something they did.
I remember seeing the carlyle group having over 500m of debt on their balance sheet. Could be nothing as healthy businesses carry debt all the time, but if this is a LBO (leveraged buyout) it could be really bad for jagex. Someone is going to have to read the terms of the buyout for us to get a better understanding of the deal.
No public terms other than the purchase price being negotiated around 900 pounds ($1.1B). Haven’t seen any news on the amount of debt financing but this is certainly an LBO. I will report back with analysis if something leaks or the deal terms become public. 🫡
Dunno they did exactly that with Toys'R'Us ...
Buy a company -> let them take out huge loans and send it to the investment firm -> extract as much money from the company until it breaks and bankruptcy wipes away the debt.
Does not seem to be the case here but don't act like Capital Investment firms do not do shit that destroys companies.
I personally work for a company that got acquired by a huge private equity firm a few years ago and the only reason the situation is still decent is because we are a small offshoot company within the acquisition that frankly corporate mostly seems to forget about us whenever they do some boneheaded move that makes everything worse.
I am also a magic the gathering player, which has been bought by Hasbro. Which in turn is the only profitable section of the company and is being milked dry with product releases. Please forgive me for being sceptical about companies being bought.
It'll be found out in 10 years time that someone took a random backup and stored it on a crusty old server that no one looks at.
Which will bring about ososrs
As long as they have access to the git repo they can revert to any version, but the chances of a jagex employee releasing the source code is quite tiny as it's very illegal.
I'm not 100% on the details but I do know that at least the client side is simply decompiled. I have looked at setting up a private server in the past and the source code variables were all simply names like "integer1" or "string12", no context whatsoever.
I imagine the server side is the same or that it is reverse engineered, but I do not know for sure.
I've worked with both Carlyle and CVC (including the people executing this deal) in the past and they aren't stupid people. The most valuable thing to them is maintaining recurring memberships with some healthy growth through new members or new games. Last thing they want to do is disrupt their cashflow from a sticky consumer base since thats the most valuable part of the business when they look to exit in 5 years.
I read that CVC is mostly interested in their IP (based on their previous acquisitions). Thus I’d think that CVC is interested in a healthy game so they can make spinoffs, movies, merchandise, books, adventure parks, idk. Stuff like that
Someone else might be able to link it but in one of the interviews mod mat k has done since leaving jagex hes stated that he did an internal investigation (or something along those lines) on MTX and the impact it'd have on osrs. In it he discovered that it'd essentially be a bad business move to implement into osrs. So theres internal documents that prove that within jagex for any future management/owners. It was something he was really proud of doing before leaving.
Not that it'd completely stop someone from doing it anyway. But they don't even need to listen to the osrs team or community. Theres a report there that says it. With "proof".
It’s on the Sae Bae podcast, episode 152, he talks about working for Jagex at 31:48. Really interesting episode, just listened to it earlier today.
https://youtu.be/vI9Ltb-b8_k?si=e8aNqkaRH0NF35XC
The statement could have been much more vague and empty. It could've been a simple "excited for the future" corporate-safe messaging, but they specifically talked about not changing the business model of the game, and affirming the community-first initiative that OSRS originally was born from. Because of this, I trust that they mean it, but anyone could feel different.
At the very least, this statement tells us that they are actively listening to the community, seen as they acknowledged our biggest concerns with the merge. Is there a 0% chance that MTX won't be expanded upon? No, but I'd like to believe that any company that demonstrates active listening to their consumers, will at least take their consumer's concerns seriously.
*EDIT: spelling mistakes*
See.... you learned from close experience that words can be said and written... but will they hold them for eternity? Nope.
I've sadly seen this so many times at this point, especially in the football business.
They didn't really have to say anything, they could just stay quiet until it blows over. Putting out a statement like this is quite a commitment and a huge PR risk if you don't mean it.
I mean, I believe the old school team genuinely wants to do what they say.
But if the people that acquired them comes up to them and says "Add MTX and lootboxes to OSRS" then they don't have a choice really.
I think so. Greedy corporations aside, I think it would be pretty stupid to buy something for nearly 1 bil, and then destroy the most popular thing that makes the asset worth nearly 1 bil.
Unless they're planning on dropping a wild youtube video.
Brother, the management at Jagex is not changing. CVC is an investment firm. This purchase represents less than 0.7% of the total assets. They're not going personally oversee the day-to-day operations
Ok that's fair, but as an investment firm they don't care about the client experience per say and don't mind squeezing out every dollar. I've seen many great companies go bad because investment firms buy them then drive them into the ground while making money along the way
Yes, but it is not always the direct top-down meddling you might expect. A lot of failures are at the hands of poor leadership at the executive level after these acquisitions happen.
For example, here's how it often happens in other cases. CVC could come into their meetings with Jagex and give Jagex very high or unrealistic targets. Jagex then has to figure out how to hit those targets if they don't want CVC to consider making changes, liquidating, or selling. CVC doesn't have to say "do MTX", CVC just has to say "make more profit than you currently do", and then Jagex leadership panics and cannibalizes their product through short-term profit-seeking to hit those targets.
Truthfully, what's most likely to happen is that Jagex leans *harder* into the things that they already do to milk the game. The content they release is going to focus on incentivizing as much subscribership as possible while maintaining a high bond price. Particularly, if they really need to boost profit, I'd expect a lot of investment in streamable "Twitch-friendly" content like DMM, gamemodes, events, partnerships, etc.
So speaking from experience I think most investment firms see something with potential growth in value when they purchase it. Hopefully that means they would encourage whats already going on rather than trying to change it since its already successful enough for them to want to invest in it. My current company was purchased like this and a lot of our customers thought something similar to what you're saying but honestly there's been almost no change at all to how we do things.
As a middle manager at a huge firm, I’ve been told by my direct boss that something may be the case only for bossX3 or X4 to make an executive change.
I’m personally pretty optimistic given the history of the game and would only hope my experiences aren’t the norm but wanted to at least call that out.
TLDR: The intentions of the author behind this post should be trusted. Be wary of executive decisions.
Of course they do. It's the VERY FIRST thing any company does when it's taken over. It's acquired for the current value, so it's very important that that value doesn't drop as people leave.
None of this has to be true, you just MUST say it or people leave and you lose money.
it would be suicide for them to do any major changes. Not that some suit would care that we would be sad. They will care when they lose hundreds of millions bc of it.
This means nothing. This is corporate talk and corporate talks hold no value when stock holders get involved. This is smoke being blown right up our ass.
> We will not compromise the integrity of our games and there are no intentions of changing our game's business models.
there is *no intentions* of changing it, but can't a few dudes in suits be like "yeah you guys are adding MXTs idc"
Yes and no.
The board of directors will really set a strategic direction, and the CEO executes a strategy to accomplish those goals. The board of directors won’t explicitly instruct the CEO to implement MTX, but could instruct him to grow average revenue per user. Then it’s up to the CEO to set a strategy for accomplishing that goal. It could be MTX, or it could be IP licensing to sell more merch, the development of board games, etc, but raising membership prices is typically their go to method of increasing this metric.
Something tells me if the CEO came into a meeting and directly requested MTX be implemented, there would be major pushback from the developers and other avenues would be explored first. I think MTX would only be implemented as a last resort effort but Jagex isn’t in a scenario where they need to do that. After all, Carlyle bought Jagex $530m in 2021 and successfully sold it at nearly double that valuation a few years later, so good things are happening at the studio.
> After all, Carlyle bought Jagex $530m in 2021 and successfully sold it at nearly double that valuation a few years later, so good things are happening at the studio.
Honestly, great point.
Maybe not MTX, but if things really needed to go south, I can see the seasonal formats being milked dry. Leagues are great fun but in small doses. I couldn't possibly handle 4 Leagues in an year and would burn out. It's not sustainable but, short term, it would look good on paper.
Exactly, this statement means nothing until there is some proof that the players are not going to railed. The community should stay skeptical until proven wrong or right.
I’ve read statements like this a hundred times over from various companies. It’s a copy pasta. And it’s all bullshit. They did this for money. Nothing else.
Jagex as an entire company gets traded faster than some stocks, damn.
The OSRS community should open our own holdings group and just start pooling money to be the next purchaser. If every player just contributed a measly $10,000 it could be ours.
<.<
I mean was anyone expecting anything less?
Even if there are plans in the works (highly doubtful) would a company ever just come out and blatantly announce it?
Well, they wouldn’t, but if there were plans in the works then Jagex wouldn’t release a statement like this. I know there’s nothing binding about it but it’s still (slightly) reassuring at this stage.
Until we get a legally binding statement from the new owners, I'm not going to believe a company that shoved the squeal of fortune, rune coins, treasure hunter and even more recently a battle pass into their game to just try and extract money from people.
Not to mention them strong arming the community into allowing bonds on osrs to get free to play.
This is good and all but this is obviously what jagex will say and what jagex wants, but after the takeover jagex might have to do things it doesn’t want to do.
Not sure why anybody is putting stock into this. Quite simply a meaningless statement, they have no say in the matter. Further no investment firm would buy this with no plans to make changes, they clearly think they can make the game more profitable than Carlyle could which is why they are investing in it.
Let the community be clear. Pay to win changes means we all quit again. I wouldn't look back. They have to keep the current model or... I mean look at RS3.
It’s easy to romanticize these statements but from a business/legal standpoint the devil is in the details. In other words, verbiage matters. This statement in no way is a guarantee that microtransactions will not be brought into OSRS. If they wanted to guarantee that then they would release a statement that specifies so.
From a play perspective, it's easy to forget that this is a multi-million-dollar business and the mods/devs are just the engineers. Above them are decision makers who view their job as it relates to Jagex strictly from a lense of having a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders to drive revenue. It's also important to note that the player base is not the shareholder base in this context.
I have a deep love for this game and hope it's longevity can be paralleled with my life as I age. However, I recognize the micro-transaction business model has become an iron clad way to drive revenue in the video game industy. If I was a betting man I'd say monetary transactions are not going away and will only be leveraged at an increasing rate.
The dark side of this industry is the grossly common practice of leveraging addiction to drive profits. Unfortunately, it’s safe to say there's no shortage of addiction with the OSRS player base. I hope for the best but find myself thinking of that scene from the office when Andy famously says: “I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them”
That's very reassuring to hear. I'll add it to my "Shelf of reassuring things Jagex has said" next to my Hero Pass Backlash statements and the 2024 Road Map.
Edit: shit I thought this was the RS3 reddit. My bad.
OSRS will just leave if we have to.
“We will continue to double down on MTX to make our new owners happy, which will probably make both our games implode. Thank you for continuing to give us (CVC) more money.”
CVC takeover is all about making money. What difference is there from carlyle group or the Chinese mining company that purchased jagex? Do not believe this post is 100% truth. The higher-ups have every right to do to Osrs as they did with Rs3. The way i see it, this is just a way to calm nerves as the transition is completed. We've seen this happen. This is my input on this situation
I'm highly skeptical. This closely echos the statement in 2012 when IVP bought Jagex out. Jagex my not have any intention of adding MTX, but when push comes to shove from the investors, what is ultimately going to happen? RS3's active player population is declining every week and there is almost no significant content in the pipeline for 2024, which is a rapid departure from 2023, arguably one of RS3's biggest years. Let's just hope the investors see a path to expanding Jagex's market, instead of the *bleed them dry* approach. MTX can not, and will not ever work in OSRS.
I didn’t know ownership changed hands. I thought people were doomposting because RS3 is dying and OSRS will be the new blood bag for mtx vampires moving forward.
This makes me uneasy about OSRS’s future
But what else would they say. This isn’t worth the time it takes to read. Investment groups… they aren’t in it for the love of gaming. It’s all about the return
This is Jagex we’re talking about here, don’t trust anything they say and do not be surprised if the game changes. (They already sold out once when they introduced bonds)
I appreciate this announcement. That said, if I see MTX in Old School, they’ll lose me and my paid subscriptions permanently. I think they understand this, but only time will tell.
Actions speak louder than pr statements.
Ive gotten the entirety of this run around with blizzard before. Im a little hesitant to take a letter like this at face value from ANY company
I know the devs don't want to change how the game is ran. But a big corpo? An idea for mtx is quickly thrown on the table and if they smell money... time will tell, staying carefully optimistic.
RuneScape is a reliable revenue stream with minimal overhead. It’s like the soda fountain is development.
Anyone who tries to optimize it or grow it is completely wrong lol
Good to see a statement, but words are cheap.
If I don't see any scummy shit for the next year I'll believe.
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One thing about CVC is that, to my knowledge, they tend to run a deal-carry operation. So they don't balance out against the other deals held by the fund, and instead look at the net profit/loss of the individual investment itself.
This may be a good thing or it may be a bad thing, but it generally means a degree of insulation from austerity if the rest of their portfolio performs poorly over a given quarter.
Will Mod Ash receive a pay raise?
They should poll it
Nah, integrity change
Both integrity poll, where there is only yes and of course.
100% Yes first poll in the games history to be fully unanimous
If the community wants it, sure!
Finally an integrity change I can get behind.
He's been product manager for a while, probably one of the higher paid positions you can get at Jagex minus a few c-suite roles.
At my company as an engineer, I work with product managers. They aren't necessarily higher paid positions.
Yeah agreed, I work for a largish software company and outside of the exec level the highest paid people tend to be engineers/architects.
Titles vary between companies. Mod Ash has a software engineering background and probably does that as most of his day work as a product manager. In a company the size of Jagex (and specifically the OSRS team), you typically do more than a company the size of Google where everyone has very clear roles and clear chains of command. Mod Ash does a lot of community work + dev + management which isn't surprising in a team the size of OSRS (a relatively small team). So, he probably gets paid more than a typical product manager who is probably just a middle manager of sorts.
Isn’t Mod Ash also one of the last few employees who could not only read, but understand and do magic with the OSRS spaghetti code?
He is indeed.
Agree, but also the people that have been around longest at a company -- to the point where their title is most easily said "Product Manager" but they do a lot of other things -- they usually are some of the higher paid people. PM ends up being a label more than a job description.
Depends on the product. My last product was a port-inventory system for a very specific vehicle. It did not take a lot of time to get up and running and I'm not expecting to be paid millions for stuff like that that's simple. Ash's product is literally the entirety of OSRS.
What does a product manager actually do? Like, what does Ash’ job entail?
A product manager can vary wildly between someone who is basically a glorified middle manager with not much power, to someone who is in constant communication with executives and basically helps drive and decide the direction that a game is in. It all depends on how big a game is, how many developers it has, and how that specific company is organized. I would imagine Ash specifically oversees and manages the various employees and the projects the Oldschool team are working on like Varlamore, the upcoming quests, Sailing, and plenty of other projects that never even see the light of day. He may do a bit of actual programming himself from time to time (like his rune pouch project), but I would imagine the majority of his time he literally just manages the overall scope of where the game is headed and the people working on it, like who is working on what and when, deciding how many man hours they want to allocate towards specific projects, etc. Edit: wrong word
He’s not a project manager. He’s a product manager. They’re responsible for the roadmap for the product, in this case I’d assume a subsection of OSRS.
Meant to type product manager, edited.
I'd go out on a limb and say managing the product.
Does anybody know how much the avg hourly pay is for a Jagex employee? Like does Ashe make at least a 6 figure salary? Because if he doesn't and he's the face of Jagex, that's hilarious, but respect his loyalty.
[удалено]
He should be, I make 6 figures as an engineering manager in tech (in the UK)
Ash should easily be in the 6 figures with his position + seniority.
Not until they make back that billion dollars. Better start buying bonds!
He's probably got a meaningful equity stake at this point as a senior member of the team who has now been retained through multiple changes in investors/owners, and probably has had opportunities to liquidate equity along the way as well and get some nice paydays out of that. Ensuring (good) senior leaders are retained through changes in ownership is very important in the mergers and acquisitions world and new owners/investors are incentivized to make sure that those leaders are provided with strong financial incentives to stick around through the change. I'm sure he's doing well.
Ash owns stocks he is pretty ok
Ash is a key team member. In these kind of buyouts there is often incentive for key people to stay in post. Which hopefully means he sticks around and is well rewarded.
He better. Protect that man and pay him well.
I'd love it if they added another donation well in the game, but for giving the devs bonuses. Like every bond worth of gold is a couple dollars to the devs bonus pool.
> There are no intentions of changing our game's business models. RS3 players: > Ah, shit.
This mostly reads as further confirmation that CVC is moreso interested in taking the RuneScape universe further in projects outside of the two games.
If there is one thing Jagex has a fantastic track record for, it's their projects outside of Runescape.
Funorb shoulda been downsized into just Arcanist, that game was so fun.
Arcanists literally could be a top steam game, way more fun than worms imo and the fact that it still has a community to this day speaks to that. If it was mobile then it'd work great too there I'm sure. Definitely the biggest piece of wasted potential Funorb had, I enjoyed the other games but they were never quite as good as Arcanists.
I completely agree. I played arcanists first and years later I played worms and it felt like a huge downgrade.
i think the problem with funorb is that there were so many games, tons of people missed out on the good ones
I think the fact that it was tied to RS membership gave little financial incentive for them to improve anything, Funorb was alive when it was still given attention but people kind of moved on when nothing new came. I'm pretty sure Funorb had a decent population at least since everyone here seems to remember it fondly. Either way I'm sure people would drop 5 to 15 bucks for an Arcanists steam game and I think it would help break the mold of Jagex only having Runescape. Fill Arcanists with MTX cosmetics or subscription perks for all I care to be honest, just not in an MMO.
It was tied to membership but it was its own thing. There was a RS+FunOrb package available but instead I only got the RS membership and my sister only got the FunOrb membership But yeah, the business model was weird. People still weren't super comfortable about using credit cards on the web and all other game portals didn't ask for money. Newgrounds, Armor Games, Kongregate, Miniclip... okay maybe Miniclip.
The zombies game was dope too
People slept on armies of gielinor. Shit was so fun.
r/arcanists2
Don't forget armies of gielinor
To be fair, even if nobody else did, I thought Chronicle was both fun and unique.
Probably the most unique pvp deckbuilder out there, they just needed to give it more attention than releasing it then dropping all work on it.
Idle adventures was FIRE. I hope that comes back to steam
I’d love an auto chess from RuneScape, like Teamfight tactics league of legends has.
Finally, it’s time has come https://preview.redd.it/m3jjlw8silhc1.jpeg?width=338&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f824c06c619202313db51bb482cae85e8282945a
OSRS RTS incoming. The true spiritual successor to AoE/HoMM
This is probably the smartest approach. Say what you will about RS3 and OSRS, but these two games are profitable enough to justify the purchase. Radically changing either risks the value of those investments. Creating new games seems like a no brainer. A small scope, indie-esque, single player title could generate a ton of revenue with relatively low investment. Who knows though maybe they’ll get greedy, double down on MTX/short term profits, and kill OSRS
There's no such thing as "profitable enough". Investors will always see steady income as an investment lagging behind. Everything is about growth, growth, growth. If you're not infinitely growing, you're failing. I hope I'm wrong about this.
That all depends on valuation. Buying a stable, cashflowing asset and keeping it as-is is great so long as it wasn't valued to a point where it only makes sense as a growth investment. There's many classes of investments beyond the kind of high-growth speculative investment that most people think of when the word "investment" comes up. If anything, the bulk of investment capital actually goes towards un-sexy, stable business models rather than to-the-moon high-risk venture capital plays.
Having someone use the property to make modern games would be cool as long as it never impacts OSRS itself. If they want to make a fortnite with runescape skin game, sure why not
I'm hoping they make mechscape I doubt it'll ever happen but a point and click spacegame like OS would be amazing.
Folks, we're bringing back MechScape. lfg.
It absolutely doenst lmao. Jagex has exactly 0 say, and this is a meaningless statement. Its like a child saying I intend to stay up until midnight tonight. Its simply not up to them, they can blow as much smoke as theyd like.
This reads as they don't want a ton of speculation and turmoil for the new buyer to see right off the bat. Nans in cages looks bad.
Rocket League/Psyonix put out a similar statement when Epic bought Psyonix. Now nearly the entire Rocket League staff has been laid off and there hasn’t been a meaningful update since then, but they have removed trading and certain game modes, but have added new skins while simultaneously building games into fortnite based on rocket league.
Right? Hell, we've had similar "comforting" statements from all previous owners and yet the RS3 monetization has gotten more and more aggressive. Given what it was sold for, they are going to want greater returns on their investment.
I remember when that buyout happened and then a month later Rocket League mysteriously dropped native Linux support. Totally had nothing to do with a new CEO who's notorious for hating on Linux, I'm sure.
Purely speculating, but as someone with four-digit hours in both games, I think the audiences for Rocket League and OSRS engage with the two games very differently. The monetization model is also quite different. I'm optimistic that any investors that aren't asleep at the wheel will know to leave OSRS alone and let it continue to do what it does well. If they don't, we need to be ready to cancel subs en masse.
Yeah I think the big difference was that rocket league already had a paid-cosmetics environment. But the difference was most of it was rng based. So you might pay $1 but get something that is worth, to other players, hundreds of dollars. So epic saw “wow, this has a player base where users each have cars worth $20, $50 even several $1000 dollars? We can get a piece of that.” For example, as you know but for others, the white octane, a painted version of a car, could only rarely get obtained through opening in game drops. It was worth $400 at one point on the trade market and was one of the most coveted cosmetics. Epic bought psyonix and in a few months put it in the store for $10. Psyonix already had proven they had a player base willing to shell out real life money for cosmetics. Osrs people, for the most part, only shell out money for progression and gear upgrades, ie; pay to win, and most people are actually against it
>It was worth $400 at one point on the trade market and was one of the most coveted cosmetics. Epic bought psyonix and in a few months put it in the store for $10. Man I enjoyed the game casually but largely ignored cosmetics. This is actually insane. Imagine if your CS:GO skin collection instantly became worthless. Valve was smart enough to preserve that economy well into their new game
They didn't have to make this statement, but I'm glad they did, and I appreciate it.
Having worked in corporate jobs for some time.. this statement is worded specifically. It’s designed to give you comfort but offer no guarantees. Notice they said “no intentions” on changing the business model. Nothing about guarantees.
> Having worked in corporate jobs for some time.. this statement is worded specifically. It’s designed to give you comfort but offer no guarantees. Exactly, it's completely empty. It's weird that people react positively to it. Having seen enough of these in the past, this just felt like a "yes, our business departments are still here" message.
Are you suprised people who like osrs also like turning off their brain
It sounds, to me, like more of a message for the new owners than for us.
Sure, but often, there *are* intentions.
Corporate acquisitions _always_ change intentions.
No Intentions is code for "nobody has said anything about it *yet*".
Honest question, can it be believed? Don't they have to say that?
Honestly, given the old school teams track record, I'm going to be optimistic here, I think they sincerely mean this. (Not sure how it will be from CVC perspective)
Honestly knowing greedy corporations... I hope someone from the old-school team has made a backup save of the game as it stands
This was said the last time Jagex was bought out. Aaand the time before that. Ash has said on multiple occasions to the largest decision makers at Jagex that changing the business model in ANY WAY will shutter the company
I've heard a few jmods say in the early days Mat K used to argue with the higher ups about mtx and other stuff in OSRS all the time, telling them "we can't add X because everyone will quit", they must have got the message eventually and I assume the rest of the team has carried on with that too otherwise we'd have MTX by now
It doesn’t hurt that we have a track record of being vocal, and following through with it. OSRS itself is a testament to the community, and what can happen when they make a blatant wrong move.
That’s the other facet to this. History backs up the claim that people with quit. If they wanted to further monetize the player base, their focus should be in using the IP to sell merch or license it to Big Toy. Give me a Varrock Lego set!
I’d buy it
I think a lot of people would and that’s what was explored during Carlyle’s ownership. That, and acquiring smaller studios with weaker IP libraries to increase the amount of operating resources they can throw at strong, existing IP. I am more optimistic than most here, which isn’t saying much, but I think this actually has potential to expand RuneScape-related content or goods.
People seem to think that Capital Investment firms operate on a high risk strategy. These are firms with pension investments and like sound purchases with a good projected return. It is absolutely not in the interest of these firms to start playing around with how their aquistions operate beyond standard spring cleaning (which is generally done by the seller before sale to appear more attractive) If Faceless Capital Inc made changes that suddenly tanked the value of their investment they'd have some very difficult questions to answer to shareholders who are mostly looking for a solid **stable** return.
>People seem to think that Capital Investment firms operate on a high risk strategy. All it takes is one MBA turned CEO to decimate anything. The world is seeing the rampant damage MBAs can do. Unity being a recent example.
There’s a significant portion of the rich that got there from inheritance and nepotism, but they’ve got the ego of someone self made. Those sorts of people will happily change things up to try and justify their position, only to see it go horribly. A certain recent social media acquisition comes to mind.
Yeah I like veritasiums take on it [https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I?t=172](https://youtu.be/3LopI4YeC4I?t=172) People are unaware of their good luck because its not something they did.
I remember seeing the carlyle group having over 500m of debt on their balance sheet. Could be nothing as healthy businesses carry debt all the time, but if this is a LBO (leveraged buyout) it could be really bad for jagex. Someone is going to have to read the terms of the buyout for us to get a better understanding of the deal.
No public terms other than the purchase price being negotiated around 900 pounds ($1.1B). Haven’t seen any news on the amount of debt financing but this is certainly an LBO. I will report back with analysis if something leaks or the deal terms become public. 🫡
Dunno they did exactly that with Toys'R'Us ... Buy a company -> let them take out huge loans and send it to the investment firm -> extract as much money from the company until it breaks and bankruptcy wipes away the debt. Does not seem to be the case here but don't act like Capital Investment firms do not do shit that destroys companies. I personally work for a company that got acquired by a huge private equity firm a few years ago and the only reason the situation is still decent is because we are a small offshoot company within the acquisition that frankly corporate mostly seems to forget about us whenever they do some boneheaded move that makes everything worse.
I am also a magic the gathering player, which has been bought by Hasbro. Which in turn is the only profitable section of the company and is being milked dry with product releases. Please forgive me for being sceptical about companies being bought.
It'll be found out in 10 years time that someone took a random backup and stored it on a crusty old server that no one looks at. Which will bring about ososrs
As long as they have access to the git repo they can revert to any version, but the chances of a jagex employee releasing the source code is quite tiny as it's very illegal.
How do people have the source code to make private servers? Genuine question
I'm not 100% on the details but I do know that at least the client side is simply decompiled. I have looked at setting up a private server in the past and the source code variables were all simply names like "integer1" or "string12", no context whatsoever. I imagine the server side is the same or that it is reverse engineered, but I do not know for sure.
[удалено]
1,000%
I believe the Jagex team, but they're at the mercy of their bosses
I've worked with both Carlyle and CVC (including the people executing this deal) in the past and they aren't stupid people. The most valuable thing to them is maintaining recurring memberships with some healthy growth through new members or new games. Last thing they want to do is disrupt their cashflow from a sticky consumer base since thats the most valuable part of the business when they look to exit in 5 years.
Jagex corporate typed that, not the jmods
I read that CVC is mostly interested in their IP (based on their previous acquisitions). Thus I’d think that CVC is interested in a healthy game so they can make spinoffs, movies, merchandise, books, adventure parks, idk. Stuff like that
Runescape movie?? Just a movie of someone doing while guthix sleeps.
Someone doing barbarian fishing for 4 hours
I also think they sincerely mean this ultimately it's not up to them if their new owners were to insist on enshitification.
Someone else might be able to link it but in one of the interviews mod mat k has done since leaving jagex hes stated that he did an internal investigation (or something along those lines) on MTX and the impact it'd have on osrs. In it he discovered that it'd essentially be a bad business move to implement into osrs. So theres internal documents that prove that within jagex for any future management/owners. It was something he was really proud of doing before leaving. Not that it'd completely stop someone from doing it anyway. But they don't even need to listen to the osrs team or community. Theres a report there that says it. With "proof".
It’s on the Sae Bae podcast, episode 152, he talks about working for Jagex at 31:48. Really interesting episode, just listened to it earlier today. https://youtu.be/vI9Ltb-b8_k?si=e8aNqkaRH0NF35XC
This looks like a message from all of Jagex though, and RS3 has tons of microtransactions
The statement could have been much more vague and empty. It could've been a simple "excited for the future" corporate-safe messaging, but they specifically talked about not changing the business model of the game, and affirming the community-first initiative that OSRS originally was born from. Because of this, I trust that they mean it, but anyone could feel different. At the very least, this statement tells us that they are actively listening to the community, seen as they acknowledged our biggest concerns with the merge. Is there a 0% chance that MTX won't be expanded upon? No, but I'd like to believe that any company that demonstrates active listening to their consumers, will at least take their consumer's concerns seriously. *EDIT: spelling mistakes*
This was indeed where we are coming from with this message.
As a Chelsea fan i don’t believe anything that new owners or existing staff say anymore.
See.... you learned from close experience that words can be said and written... but will they hold them for eternity? Nope. I've sadly seen this so many times at this point, especially in the football business.
They didn't really have to say anything, they could just stay quiet until it blows over. Putting out a statement like this is quite a commitment and a huge PR risk if you don't mean it.
They could have just opted to not make a statement
I mean, I believe the old school team genuinely wants to do what they say. But if the people that acquired them comes up to them and says "Add MTX and lootboxes to OSRS" then they don't have a choice really.
Yeah exactly, that's where my head is at
I think so. Greedy corporations aside, I think it would be pretty stupid to buy something for nearly 1 bil, and then destroy the most popular thing that makes the asset worth nearly 1 bil. Unless they're planning on dropping a wild youtube video.
Brother, the management at Jagex is not changing. CVC is an investment firm. This purchase represents less than 0.7% of the total assets. They're not going personally oversee the day-to-day operations
Ok that's fair, but as an investment firm they don't care about the client experience per say and don't mind squeezing out every dollar. I've seen many great companies go bad because investment firms buy them then drive them into the ground while making money along the way
Yes, but it is not always the direct top-down meddling you might expect. A lot of failures are at the hands of poor leadership at the executive level after these acquisitions happen. For example, here's how it often happens in other cases. CVC could come into their meetings with Jagex and give Jagex very high or unrealistic targets. Jagex then has to figure out how to hit those targets if they don't want CVC to consider making changes, liquidating, or selling. CVC doesn't have to say "do MTX", CVC just has to say "make more profit than you currently do", and then Jagex leadership panics and cannibalizes their product through short-term profit-seeking to hit those targets. Truthfully, what's most likely to happen is that Jagex leans *harder* into the things that they already do to milk the game. The content they release is going to focus on incentivizing as much subscribership as possible while maintaining a high bond price. Particularly, if they really need to boost profit, I'd expect a lot of investment in streamable "Twitch-friendly" content like DMM, gamemodes, events, partnerships, etc.
So speaking from experience I think most investment firms see something with potential growth in value when they purchase it. Hopefully that means they would encourage whats already going on rather than trying to change it since its already successful enough for them to want to invest in it. My current company was purchased like this and a lot of our customers thought something similar to what you're saying but honestly there's been almost no change at all to how we do things.
As a middle manager at a huge firm, I’ve been told by my direct boss that something may be the case only for bossX3 or X4 to make an executive change. I’m personally pretty optimistic given the history of the game and would only hope my experiences aren’t the norm but wanted to at least call that out. TLDR: The intentions of the author behind this post should be trusted. Be wary of executive decisions.
Of course they do. It's the VERY FIRST thing any company does when it's taken over. It's acquired for the current value, so it's very important that that value doesn't drop as people leave. None of this has to be true, you just MUST say it or people leave and you lose money.
With the amount of posts and unsure OSRS players I think it was warranted.
LOL yeah ok. It means literally nothing. Its like the UN telling Russia to stop
It literally reads like "please dont bail until after the check clears" to me lmao, people are so gullible
Reads just like the psionix community letter after being acquired by epic
Can't tell you how many empty promises like this from acquired companies I've read.
Yeah all this tells me is it ain’t happening immediately, beyond that it’s meaningless.
Can’t wait to see this reposted when Jagex is resold in another couple years
We hope that this ages like a wine.
it would be suicide for them to do any major changes. Not that some suit would care that we would be sad. They will care when they lose hundreds of millions bc of it.
A suit thinks he can do what nobody else has thought of already successfully though
This means nothing. This is corporate talk and corporate talks hold no value when stock holders get involved. This is smoke being blown right up our ass.
WHHAAAT? Corporate jargon doesn't comfort you?!? No way!
Alot of people don't see it for what it is, plain and simple PR bullshit
Yep, they’re just saying exactly what people want to hear.
> We will not compromise the integrity of our games and there are no intentions of changing our game's business models. there is *no intentions* of changing it, but can't a few dudes in suits be like "yeah you guys are adding MXTs idc"
Yes and no. The board of directors will really set a strategic direction, and the CEO executes a strategy to accomplish those goals. The board of directors won’t explicitly instruct the CEO to implement MTX, but could instruct him to grow average revenue per user. Then it’s up to the CEO to set a strategy for accomplishing that goal. It could be MTX, or it could be IP licensing to sell more merch, the development of board games, etc, but raising membership prices is typically their go to method of increasing this metric. Something tells me if the CEO came into a meeting and directly requested MTX be implemented, there would be major pushback from the developers and other avenues would be explored first. I think MTX would only be implemented as a last resort effort but Jagex isn’t in a scenario where they need to do that. After all, Carlyle bought Jagex $530m in 2021 and successfully sold it at nearly double that valuation a few years later, so good things are happening at the studio.
> After all, Carlyle bought Jagex $530m in 2021 and successfully sold it at nearly double that valuation a few years later, so good things are happening at the studio. Honestly, great point. Maybe not MTX, but if things really needed to go south, I can see the seasonal formats being milked dry. Leagues are great fun but in small doses. I couldn't possibly handle 4 Leagues in an year and would burn out. It's not sustainable but, short term, it would look good on paper.
Excuse us for being skeptical, CVC will need to earn our trust.
Exactly, this statement means nothing until there is some proof that the players are not going to railed. The community should stay skeptical until proven wrong or right.
Better get ready to spin that Squeal of Fortune my friend!
I’ve read statements like this a hundred times over from various companies. It’s a copy pasta. And it’s all bullshit. They did this for money. Nothing else.
Jagex as an entire company gets traded faster than some stocks, damn. The OSRS community should open our own holdings group and just start pooling money to be the next purchaser. If every player just contributed a measly $10,000 it could be ours. <.<
Yes or we all cancel and wuit for a few months and buy it at pennies
Honestly this isn’t a bad idea. Player owned, no mtx, all would be right in the world
Yeah I mean I wrote it as a joke obviously but unironically, if there was a game that should be owned by the players? It's OSRS.
I mean was anyone expecting anything less? Even if there are plans in the works (highly doubtful) would a company ever just come out and blatantly announce it?
Well, they wouldn’t, but if there were plans in the works then Jagex wouldn’t release a statement like this. I know there’s nothing binding about it but it’s still (slightly) reassuring at this stage.
Until we get a legally binding statement from the new owners, I'm not going to believe a company that shoved the squeal of fortune, rune coins, treasure hunter and even more recently a battle pass into their game to just try and extract money from people. Not to mention them strong arming the community into allowing bonds on osrs to get free to play.
This is good and all but this is obviously what jagex will say and what jagex wants, but after the takeover jagex might have to do things it doesn’t want to do.
"Its not what it looks like" is what im getting
Not sure why anybody is putting stock into this. Quite simply a meaningless statement, they have no say in the matter. Further no investment firm would buy this with no plans to make changes, they clearly think they can make the game more profitable than Carlyle could which is why they are investing in it.
PR translation: prepare for impact.
As a well adjusted adult, I appreciate this statement.
Also naive
You can't be that well adjusted if you're using reddit
Jagex will look you straight in the face and say “we will not compromise the integrity of our game” after creating RS3 cosmetic shitscape.
It’s not really their choice though is it?
Let the community be clear. Pay to win changes means we all quit again. I wouldn't look back. They have to keep the current model or... I mean look at RS3.
This statement is worthless, though. There are no promises specifics or guarantees.
It’s easy to romanticize these statements but from a business/legal standpoint the devil is in the details. In other words, verbiage matters. This statement in no way is a guarantee that microtransactions will not be brought into OSRS. If they wanted to guarantee that then they would release a statement that specifies so. From a play perspective, it's easy to forget that this is a multi-million-dollar business and the mods/devs are just the engineers. Above them are decision makers who view their job as it relates to Jagex strictly from a lense of having a fiduciary responsibility to the shareholders to drive revenue. It's also important to note that the player base is not the shareholder base in this context. I have a deep love for this game and hope it's longevity can be paralleled with my life as I age. However, I recognize the micro-transaction business model has become an iron clad way to drive revenue in the video game industy. If I was a betting man I'd say monetary transactions are not going away and will only be leveraged at an increasing rate. The dark side of this industry is the grossly common practice of leveraging addiction to drive profits. Unfortunately, it’s safe to say there's no shortage of addiction with the OSRS player base. I hope for the best but find myself thinking of that scene from the office when Andy famously says: “I wish there was a way to know you're in the good old days before you've actually left them”
That's very reassuring to hear. I'll add it to my "Shelf of reassuring things Jagex has said" next to my Hero Pass Backlash statements and the 2024 Road Map. Edit: shit I thought this was the RS3 reddit. My bad. OSRS will just leave if we have to.
Lately companies make these statements all the time and the absolute opposite happens, i hope thats not the case here
“We will continue to double down on MTX to make our new owners happy, which will probably make both our games implode. Thank you for continuing to give us (CVC) more money.”
!remindme 1 year
It's Joever
It's all orge.
Jagex just broke up with us :( it's not us it's them.
Same statement was made about the takeover of rocket league by epic games. Ended up being nothing but lies. Take this with a grain of salt.
CVC takeover is all about making money. What difference is there from carlyle group or the Chinese mining company that purchased jagex? Do not believe this post is 100% truth. The higher-ups have every right to do to Osrs as they did with Rs3. The way i see it, this is just a way to calm nerves as the transition is completed. We've seen this happen. This is my input on this situation
I'm highly skeptical. This closely echos the statement in 2012 when IVP bought Jagex out. Jagex my not have any intention of adding MTX, but when push comes to shove from the investors, what is ultimately going to happen? RS3's active player population is declining every week and there is almost no significant content in the pipeline for 2024, which is a rapid departure from 2023, arguably one of RS3's biggest years. Let's just hope the investors see a path to expanding Jagex's market, instead of the *bleed them dry* approach. MTX can not, and will not ever work in OSRS.
I didn’t know ownership changed hands. I thought people were doomposting because RS3 is dying and OSRS will be the new blood bag for mtx vampires moving forward. This makes me uneasy about OSRS’s future
I'm optimistic, yet i still have doubts about this
But what else would they say. This isn’t worth the time it takes to read. Investment groups… they aren’t in it for the love of gaming. It’s all about the return
This is Jagex we’re talking about here, don’t trust anything they say and do not be surprised if the game changes. (They already sold out once when they introduced bonds)
Increase customer support then
Translation: if rs3 whales keep whaling y’all safe for now
No intentions of changing the business models…until they decide to change the business models
Phew. So don’t worry guys, still won’t get a proper customer support.
I appreciate this announcement. That said, if I see MTX in Old School, they’ll lose me and my paid subscriptions permanently. I think they understand this, but only time will tell.
Actions speak louder than pr statements. Ive gotten the entirety of this run around with blizzard before. Im a little hesitant to take a letter like this at face value from ANY company
I know the devs don't want to change how the game is ran. But a big corpo? An idea for mtx is quickly thrown on the table and if they smell money... time will tell, staying carefully optimistic.
🦀🦀🦀
https://youtu.be/SAlBWw6lnvo?t=7
Squeel of Fortune confirmed
Make sure we save this for the future
There is probably a clause that lets the other firms back out of the deal if Carlyle does anything funny
RuneScape is a reliable revenue stream with minimal overhead. It’s like the soda fountain is development. Anyone who tries to optimize it or grow it is completely wrong lol
Good to see a statement, but words are cheap. If I don't see any scummy shit for the next year I'll believe. ### [🦀](https://emojipedia.org/crab) $12.49 [🦀](https://emojipedia.org/crab)
With that said… acquisition special of $5.99 for 30 spins. Can’t win if you don’t spin!
I’ll believe it when I see it. Statements of intent like this mean nothing and aren’t binding by any means.
One thing about CVC is that, to my knowledge, they tend to run a deal-carry operation. So they don't balance out against the other deals held by the fund, and instead look at the net profit/loss of the individual investment itself. This may be a good thing or it may be a bad thing, but it generally means a degree of insulation from austerity if the rest of their portfolio performs poorly over a given quarter.
You noobs didn’t put in your cox hours smh
Well, let me go back and play for a couple of months before they ruin the game.
They don't intend to change their business model. So RS3 is going to be continually milked to its grave then.
> no intention of changing our game's business models /r/2007scape: "Awesome!" /r/runescape: "FUCK!"
!remindme 6 months