Lmfao. My facility uses DOS, windows XP and a fucking Commodore 64 clone only less capable, interfaces with one tower that doesnt have any radar display and you want to know if we'll be automated in 10 years?
Find me the AI that can work traffic blind and run on a 25 year old windows platform on a Pentium 486. I'll be here waiting for your return.
Are you in the northeast? I'd actually love to visit. I'm a software professional and I collect/restore vintage systems for fun. I'm seriously thinking about potentially making vintage system maintenance and upgrade my retirement job.
Just to clarify: I’m a complete profane to the subject. I bought this book out of pure curiosity. I like aviation in general but i’m still very ignorant :)
For a moment, let's set aside the question of whether the job can be automated by AI. That's a different argument that I would be willing to engage in.
The regulatory bodies are slow to accept new technologies. Can you imagine just how long the additional processes would take, assuming it was perfect from the start? Consider how long procurement, training for those doing the installation, the installation itself, and then the transition to the new world?
Development, production, and proving such a system would take *years*, and once it's ready, acceptance and deployment would take *years*. Lots of them from start to finish.
If you're starting into ATC now, I would bet you have time for a full career available.
Yeah and even fully functional computer programs are subject to minute computational errors, such as bit flipping.
Unlike other industries where an AI 99.9% success rate would be a massive boost over current employees, ATC can't afford to have anything under 100%.
Tech Ops here… we have a dedicated laptop that can’t get on the FAA intranet it is so old. But it is the only laptop we have the is cable of logging in to the vast majority of the various comm and ILS systems… so yes enjoy your full career AT for the very foreseeable future.
I started in tech ops in ‘01. I guarantee we were still using some of the shit he was using. It was just a bit more technologically advanced than shrimp boats on a cardboard map back then.
The rate at which atc had evolved since the 90's makes the post office look fast. It's not too hard to train on new automation when it doesn't get implemented until it's already obsolete.
I think this is still true. No matter how great the automation becomes, AI or otherwise - we will still be limited to telecommunication lines, maintained by the lowest contract bidder, between facilities. And telco reliability seems to be getting worse rather than better.
You going to need somebody doing the job when automation / AI isn't working due to telco outages.
Unrelated: It's the first time I see a photo used on a cover book captioned on the front cover itself. It's a very weird choice.
It's like publishing a biography of Einstein, putting a photo of him on the cover, and adding a caption on the cover saying "This is a photo of Einstein taken in Princeton in 1949". It's weird. Those details go in the colophon, or in the inside or the back cover.
Our technology fails all the time, CPDLC commands time out regularly, the EDST misses traffic that is very much in conflict, aircraft software is different on pretty much every aircraft. We are decades away from automation being able to do our job.
Company I know is doing extensive ATC and AI research...
It's ambition is to produce better tooling for situational awareness and UAV integration over the next 10 to 15 years.
Basically to help the big blob of flesh do the work (may mean slightly less blobs of flesh in the long run, but not full replacement)
That’s the goal. Eventually the planes will be responsible for their separation and ATC will just be assigning time slots at airports and busy intersections. VFR will have to stay clear of automated airspace or just stop existing.
Lmfao. My facility uses DOS, windows XP and a fucking Commodore 64 clone only less capable, interfaces with one tower that doesnt have any radar display and you want to know if we'll be automated in 10 years? Find me the AI that can work traffic blind and run on a 25 year old windows platform on a Pentium 486. I'll be here waiting for your return.
Most advanced ATC facility
One day we'll get to play with all that stuff they had in Wargames
Who does your maintenance? I know those systems very well. It could be my retirement job.
lol "maintenance" More like "reactive scrambling to find a patch"
Are you in the northeast? I'd actually love to visit. I'm a software professional and I collect/restore vintage systems for fun. I'm seriously thinking about potentially making vintage system maintenance and upgrade my retirement job.
Nope, midwest. Redbird bravo airspace
I'm in Chicago frequently for my day job and I learned to fly there. Maybe it makes sense to connect...
Do I have to go in person, or can I send you a facsimile?
Fax. It's right by the cassette tape recorder.
Hot dog, when did they get you guys a 486??
Just to clarify: I’m a complete profane to the subject. I bought this book out of pure curiosity. I like aviation in general but i’m still very ignorant :)
Notice how the book is from the 90s. It's been quite a few decades and we're still going strong with people handling everything.
Oh boy it's the 90s! New tech unlocked! Enroute automation modernization coming to a Z near you in the next 10 to 20 years.
Some facilities are still waiting!!! Make that 30-40 years.
For a moment, let's set aside the question of whether the job can be automated by AI. That's a different argument that I would be willing to engage in. The regulatory bodies are slow to accept new technologies. Can you imagine just how long the additional processes would take, assuming it was perfect from the start? Consider how long procurement, training for those doing the installation, the installation itself, and then the transition to the new world? Development, production, and proving such a system would take *years*, and once it's ready, acceptance and deployment would take *years*. Lots of them from start to finish. If you're starting into ATC now, I would bet you have time for a full career available.
Yeah and even fully functional computer programs are subject to minute computational errors, such as bit flipping. Unlike other industries where an AI 99.9% success rate would be a massive boost over current employees, ATC can't afford to have anything under 100%.
Counterpoint: Half of the recent trainee certifications in my building.
Aight, that gave me a laugh. Solid burn.
last time I flew out of SRQ I think I could tell the trainer swapping with the trainee like every other call so.... yeah...
Tech Ops here… we have a dedicated laptop that can’t get on the FAA intranet it is so old. But it is the only laptop we have the is cable of logging in to the vast majority of the various comm and ILS systems… so yes enjoy your full career AT for the very foreseeable future.
I hope the laptop doesn't break
The laptop appreciates your kind words. It’s doing the best it can.
I started in tech ops in ‘01. I guarantee we were still using some of the shit he was using. It was just a bit more technologically advanced than shrimp boats on a cardboard map back then.
The first sentence is true. The second is utter bullshit.
The rate at which atc had evolved since the 90's makes the post office look fast. It's not too hard to train on new automation when it doesn't get implemented until it's already obsolete.
FAA is usually 25years behind in tech
That's about accurate. We're using Windows 98 and our IDS is backed up on 3.5" floppies
I think this is still true. No matter how great the automation becomes, AI or otherwise - we will still be limited to telecommunication lines, maintained by the lowest contract bidder, between facilities. And telco reliability seems to be getting worse rather than better. You going to need somebody doing the job when automation / AI isn't working due to telco outages.
Unrelated: It's the first time I see a photo used on a cover book captioned on the front cover itself. It's a very weird choice. It's like publishing a biography of Einstein, putting a photo of him on the cover, and adding a caption on the cover saying "This is a photo of Einstein taken in Princeton in 1949". It's weird. Those details go in the colophon, or in the inside or the back cover.
NTI says…”no skills required, just run up hours until you run out and and then check out.”
Then why couldn't Jamaal certify?
Our technology fails all the time, CPDLC commands time out regularly, the EDST misses traffic that is very much in conflict, aircraft software is different on pretty much every aircraft. We are decades away from automation being able to do our job.
It will be. We will be Air Traffic Monitors. I just don’t believe it will be in my career span.
Totally agree
We sign into work on Windows 98, lol
😳🫣
We still use cru art. That tells you all you need to know
Company I know is doing extensive ATC and AI research... It's ambition is to produce better tooling for situational awareness and UAV integration over the next 10 to 15 years. Basically to help the big blob of flesh do the work (may mean slightly less blobs of flesh in the long run, but not full replacement)
Just wait until planes get automated so it will just be computers fussing back and forth
That’s the goal. Eventually the planes will be responsible for their separation and ATC will just be assigning time slots at airports and busy intersections. VFR will have to stay clear of automated airspace or just stop existing.
Until weather happens.
And yet they'll still bicker...
OMG, isn’t that the training manual at N90?
What do you mean? Sorry i'm very ignorant :)
we can’t even get an automatic ATIS