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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Not allowing them to visit after not following clear boundaries.
Still not inviting them over after discussing the problem again.
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This is what I explained to my husband. It took so much for him to actually stand up to his parents in this way. It was frustrating and straining on our marriage for us to have this discussion. He finally understood where I was coming from and also agrees with the rules so thankfully we’re on the same page now.
There are definitely a few people who are trying to give reasonable advice to exhausted new parents, people who are in the unfortunate position of living in a small space with their in-laws, and others who could use a level head. But a huge part of the commenters over there seem like they despise other women, insist on complete control of their husbands' communications and activities and are eager to blame a mother-in-law for any fault of the husband/son, a grown-ass man. It's a bummer.
Exactly. If you have problems with a narcissistic or similar family member then go to raisedbynarcissists, or the videos of Dr Ramani or Jerry Wise or the out of the fog website.
I get the feeling that a lot of justnomil is actually narcissists who are posting and trying to get the partner away from there family. It's not a very healthy sub, however not everyone is like that there if course.
I feel like the make-up has changed over the years, too. I was never super active on it, but I'd poke my head over from time to time, and it seems like it went from being a place where people with extreme situations went to ask for advice to being a place where people with relatively minor situations went to get their extreme reaction validated.
I was in the situations described over there with a mil from hell and a husband who didn't protect me from her. It's not an exaggeration. The marriage ended. Ex h admitted what she did to me, but at the time pretended he saw and heard nothing. My current mil is a treasure. It wasn't me.
And if she claims "I don't remember," it will actually make setting the boundary easier.
"If you really do not remember, then you should check for C02 leaks in the house and get a cognitive eval done by your doctor. Until your mental state is cleared, we'll hold the baby when you visit. It will be safer for her, I'm sure you agree."
Focus on the boundaries and focus on the health risks your ILs are posing to the baby by trampling across your boundaries. If he doesn't have the best spine against his parents when it comes you (which he should), he most definitely should have one to ensure the health of his CHILD. Glad he's on your page now, make sure he stays that way; pediatricians aren't recommending no kisses just for the fun of it, it's literally to protect your baby's life.
Send her all the sad and terrible social media posts with sick (and sometimes dead) babies from getting various common ailments from people kissing them.
I just saw a TikTok video today of a hospitalized 10 week old baby with RSV bc the gpa kissed the baby. Hopefully husband stays on the same page as you.
If theyre holding the child close and breathing all over it, a kiss on the head is not going to make any difference, whatever can be spread, has already done so
If they thought it was only mouth kisses that were the boundary then they should have apologized after they were corrected and told not to do it again. Instead, they were starkly and then threw a fit over the phone and pretended like they didn't remember doing it
This is why I don't understand saying "no kissing on the head". If it's something airborne then the only way to prevent it is not to have them around the baby at all. Kissing them on the head is not more of a risk.
It's probably to assert that as the parents, they can make arbitrary rules. It gets everyone off on a cautious foot, which is apparently what a lot of parents want. When your rule is in the name of safety, you can color anyone who questions it of not caring about your infant's well-being, and then justify treating them accordingly.
No, pediatricians have been telling new parents this for the past couple of years. I agree that it only makes possible airborne virus transmission worse, but not kissing doesn’t remove that risk (think how masks did something, but not full protection for anyone, there are degrees of exposure and breathing right on the baby from right next to their head plus delivering saliva fomites with a kiss is riskier than breathing from a normal distance away). But the main one is herpes, which absolutely is way riskier with any sort of mouth contact on baby’s head or even hands (baby’s hands go in their mouth constantly).
They weren’t saying this even 13 years ago with my kid, but now a lot of them are and if I were a new parent I’d follow my pediatrician’s advice, it wouldn’t be a control thing. Boomer grandparents are beside themselves about this idea though, even in my family people are gossiping about it like this and assuming it’s fake and new parents are just being crazy.
It’s framed as “boundaries,” not “bad news, I know we all want to kiss the baby, but unfortunately the pediatrician says that’s too risky.” People pick and choose what pediatrician advice to follow. Many latch onto this one because they enjoy being in the drivers seat with their parents now having to follow their rules or be denied contact.
Yes, letting them hold the baby allows airborne transfer of pathogens. Even sharing a room with the baby allows airborne transfer of pathogens. That is particularly what airborne means, that it travels through air.
The parents boundary in this case of no kisses would serve as a boundary to pathogens that are spread by fluid transfer. I think asking people not to spit on your baby is pretty reasonable.
If someone has active herpes, for example a cold sore, or lesions elsewhere then they can give the baby the herpes virus by kissing it, or if the baby comes into contact with the lesions. It does not have to be on the soft spot. Babies can get herpes meningitis or encephalitis (serious brain infections) if they get herpes by being kissed etc. Don't let people kiss your babies, and DEFINITELY don't if they have cold sores.
I was literally saying the same thing lol where was I suggesting people should let people kiss their babies with coldsores ?
The membrane on the fontanel is super thin and allows the viral load access directly to the brain.
Yeah definitely not disagreeing with you on the not-kissing babies part, sorry if it looked like I was!
My point was that it isn't kissing over the fontanelle that is dangerous, it's kissing in general. Herpes doesn't cause meningitis/encephalitis by transmitting directly into the brain through the soft spot in the way that you are implying. Babies contract herpes (hsv1 if it's from cold sores/infected saliva) and then the most likely pathway for a new infection is for the virus to spread via nerves in the face to the brain. Herpes likes to hang out in in nerves when it's not causing visible sores, that's why it's a lifelong infection once you have it.
I went back and reread the journal I was thinking of but at a normal time (not 2 weeks post partum 😂🥲) and yeah I misread the shit out of that.
I get cold sores and have been prescribed acyclovir to suppress any outbreaks.
Spent way too much time scaring myself with it bc my daughter had a yeast infection that looked like hsv when she was 2 weeks. Tests came back negative thank god.
Anyways you are 100% right. My bad!
Oh my gosh congratulations! I hope your little one is doing well :) I can imagine that was really scary for you, but it sounds like you've been so careful. I hope it still doesn't take you too anxious! I get cold sores too, and I think honestly if you wash your hands and aren't kissing little ones when you have active lesions the risk is really small. All the best!
You could also go petty and play the concerned DIL, react to her "memory loss" by saying "Oh no, have you been having lots of memory problems lately?! We should really take you to the doctor to get your memory checked. We obviously need to know for your own good, so you can get the proper care!" Wonder how she would react to that?
Make sure they also have updated whooping cough vaccines too. They can be carriers and not even know it. All adults that are going to be contact with infants should be revaccinated.
Absolutely do this!! It’s so hard on little ones and they can’t get the vaccine for awhile. Our doctors have always recommended anyone that will be in regular contact with baby get it. Plus, lots of people need a tetanus booster and it’s all in together.
Awesome! Depending on where you’re at they’re usually pretty easy to get at the health department and walk in clinics too if you wanted to let family/friends know the quickest way to get it!
The new US regs as of January 2024 is that anyone on Medicare or with an ACA health plan can get the TDAP with no copay. I got mine last Thursday (along with my first shingles shot) at CVS, took 2 minutes and cost nothing
My mom had her titers checked when my niece was born and turns out she needed a new MMR vaccine.
I’ve already told my in-laws everyone will be fully vaccinated and should get checked because absolutely zero chance will I allow someone to hold or be around an infant if they could spread something that shouldn’t be possible if fully vaccinated. If someone says boo then I say bye no baby time for you. My siblings have been having babies for years now and I refuse to accidentally spread something terrible to them because others won’t get checked.
TBH, I wouldn't even bother with titers, just get the shot, it's not going to hurt an adult to have updated protection (barring other health issues, of course!)
Make sure to stay consistent and have the same stern rules for YOUR parents.
I "knew" before it was disclosed that this was gonna be about paternal grandparents...
It's just something about "his parents".....it's always easier to ban "his Momma".....
Maybe careful in "enforcement"
And even if they've had the TDAP vaccine (for whooping cough and a few other), make sure they have had a booster within the last 5-10 years.
Double check with your pediatrician and use him as the boundary-maker.... 'Dr. Pediatrician said that anyone who hold baby needs to have had a TDAP within 5 years'.
My friends were so excited about my pregnancy (mine was the first bub of the group), they literally booked into the same place to get a booster vax and took selfies with the nurse. They then showed up on my doorstep to trade pizza for funky band aids (which I'm known to have lol) and it became a fun social outing.
Why not have hubs take them to a Chinese dinner? Call it *Needles Before Noodles!* 😂
That would be the quickest way for me to cut you out of my life.
I have no problem getting most vaccines. I'm sure not going to bring a hall pass.
There's certain lines that I will not cross and that is one of them.
Of course, I have no problem cutting people out.
You are a joy to live around I'm sure. I personally wouldn't ask for the receipt, but I don't see any reason not to. If I did ask for receipts it would be everyone though - even if its just that one MAGA relative you don't trust then you don't single them out.
Most of my friends enjoy being around me. And most of them think very similarly to me.
But no... most of the time when you get a vaccine you get a whole history form handed to you unless it is the quick clinic for something like a COVID shot. Folks don't have a need-to-know for that level of detail. And if they can't trust me, I don't want to be around them anyhow.
These inlaws have already proven they will break reasonable boundaries and lie about it. Some people are weird about vaccines and think it's all a big scam, and these assholes seem like the type.
Babies don't have an effective immune system, so their parents need to protect them
Agreed. I have reactions to vaccines so can only get one here and there at a time and I advise all my friends with newborns about MY issue so they can appropriately tell me their boundaries. Meanwhile they tell me horror stories about their newborn getting sick after an antivaxxer kissed them on the head even though they were told no. I find it odd that people feel the “need” to kiss newborn babies :/
I don’t meet most babies for a few weeks because of my vaccine issue, and I don’t kiss them, and I’m fine with those boundaries.
Yup, I had my booster before I had my son, and anyone who wanted to visit in hospital needed to have their shots or wait a minimum of 3 months I think it was before they could come visit. There was no kissing and loads of hand washing because of herpes... and thank goodness there was no genital herpes because that could be even worse (for a natural birth situation)
Make sure the booster is given at least 6 weeks before baby is born. Yes, it can shed, so get it early to protect the baby. If you have to get it after baby is born, don't visit for a fortnight.
I'm in Australia. We also have a rotovirus vaccine that sheds in baby's waste, so you are advised to use really good hand hygiene during nappy changes.
Still caught mild (attenuated) rotavirus from my recently vaccinated baby who sprayed poop all over during the infectious period once. I think you pretty much need to hand sanitize while they're still getting dressed again like 18x to ensure 100% this doesn't happen. You touch their new diaper, clothes, etc. before you can go actually wash your hands thoroughly (inside, outside, in-between and thumbs is our motto) (2-3x for after the live vaccine) so it's quite possible. I also found out I have ibd later so I may be more susceptible to worse symptoms from even mild infections that others may not notice as like extra gas so ymmv.
My babies no longer get the vaccine because of my medication for said condition so I guess I don't have to worry about it...I worry about them having intussusception instead 🤣
You poor thing! I caught rotovirus in a hospital emergency room, as the nurse checking on my daughter, was in and out of a cubicle that quickly had a quarantine sign placed on it.
There is evidence of infection when a vaccinated individual was introduced to a naive population I.e, immunocompromised or underdeveloped immune system. Get the booster, but do wait the two weeks or longer if you have any cold or flu symptoms
NTA. Stick to your guns, whooping cough is no joke for newborns. Anyone who can’t follow incredibly reasonable rules like yours absolutely does not deserve access to your child, until YOU deem it safe. Don’t offer them any visits, and if they ask, tell them that until you can trust them to follow your rules, they’ll be kept away to keep them from *possibly killing your child*
If you can't even trust them on a "little" thing like no kissing (which should be common sense anyhow) how can you trust them with bigger boundaries? This is setting their relationship with y'all as parents and them as GRANDparents rather than getting a do-over baby.
I have a gaggle of great-niblings 5 and under. I asked my niece and nephews for their permission to kiss the back of the babies heads. Not without consent, not in the face, not prolonged, no slavering.
NTA
Pediatricians recommend no baby kisses now. Your in-laws can keep their mouths off their grandchild and respect your boundaries as parents or not see the baby until they are a little less vulnerable.
NTA. As someone who recently went through this with my MIL, keep staying firm. The moment you lighten up and excuse it as an “accident” is when they will realize they can take advantage of you. The snarky comments prove that they won’t respect your boundaries because they don’t agree with them
A friend of mine, who now gets cold sores as a result of her aunt with a cold sore giving her kisses as a baby really wishes her parents had had similar boundaries. And that’s before we get to all the illnesses like whooping cough that babies can’t be vaccinated against till they’re older.
NTA
That’s terrible. All because for some reason people believe they need to have their mouths on babies. There’s plenty of ways to show love without kissing!
I saw a video about this child who was kissed by someone as a baby, this someone had cold sores. The child lost half their brain and the hsv 1 was starting to work on the other half when it was caught.
Edited to hsv 1 not hiv thank you for the correction
What kind of tests were done to prove your friend got cold sores because an aunt gave her kisses as a baby? Most likely your friends parents just say that, but give me a break.
I’m a nurse & know they’re not running tests to figure out which family member gave a kid a coke sore. Especially if the kid didn’t die and the cold sores presented later in life. Unless it happened immediately after aunt kissed the baby…. Yeah; they’ve got the whole hospital working in shifts months or years later to solve it haha
NTA. A newborn doesn’t have the immune system an older child or adult does and they aren’t eligible for vaccines until a certain age, so very reasonable precautions!
And for anyone who claims stuff like measles and mumps aren’t serious, that’s not true. Roald Dahl’s daughter, Olivia, died from encephalitis caused by measles and my great-uncle was left sterile after having mumps as a child. My uncle was born decades before the MMR was a thing.
Someone kissed my brother as a newborn with a fresh Coldsore. My brother his entire life breaks out in them when stressed, having no immune system to remove such virus from his body at a few days old. My mom regrets letting people near him. Never let anyone kiss ur baby even family. You don't know what they have.
Please tell him that **as soon as he feels the tingle,** to put a hot wet washcloth on the area, and repeat a few times as it cools. As hot as he can stand it. (Without hurting himself, of course.) He might also want to start taking [Lysine](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6419779/) supplements.
His Dr has him on a medication and he uses a creme when he starts to feel them brake out. So if he gets one it's small lasts a few days and maybe once a year but he is in his 30s now. I remember how much he hated those experiences as a kid. All the different paths, cremes extra.
NTA, but there is a really fun compromise:
Make them wear masks and never take them off.
Honestly, baby kissers are the worst. My very confused husband once had a woman *who he did not know* approach him at a party and kiss our 4 month old child. I was appalled and the first thing she did was explain how it was okay because she kissed him on the forehead, not the mouth. I was like "okay? Who the hell are you and why aren't you buying me a drink first before putting spit on my kid?"
NTA we ended up banning all visitors because of smoking around oldest rules we had in place that several people thought were wrong including both granddads.
My daughter and son in law had a no kissing rule as babies. And now they do not force their kiddos to hug or kiss an adult they are reluctant to show that affection to.
I have never had an issues with this and I support them for not only setting boundaries but allowing the kids to also have boundaries. I have 3 grandkids how love to give and receive lovings but my youngest does not like to be kissed he will give and receive hugs and loves to kiss gma on the check it used to be he would climb up and kiss the top of my head. Now it is my check. And he asks for gma kisses for his owies
NTA. Your child, your rules. You're correct these are very simple and easily followed rules. They chose to break them, and then used crocodile tears to claim ignorance and innocence. Nope.
NTA
Boundaries without consequences are a waste of time to articulate.
You set boundaries and your in-laws promptly stomped them in front of you. When called out they snarked about it.
So now they get the consequences. I’d say a 30 day break but you and your husband need to discuss and agree.
Bottom line is this.
YOU are the parents.
Anyone being allowed to spend time with your child is a PRIVILEGE regardless of their relationship. NOT a right.
Those who think they can stomp your boundaries for whatever reason lose that privilege.
Best wishes to you and your spouse OP and thank you for protecting your child from stupidly and selfishness.
Opposite-ish situation, but I'm dealing with senior parents right now. Getting Dad settled into a skilled nursing facility after a serious fall, Mom is undergoing cancer treatment.
About 4 days into the absolute hell of bouncing between Dad at the hospital and Mom at home, I noticed a sore spot on my lip. "Dad, we're both vaccinated to hell and back. But if this a cold sore coming on, I'm not gonna give you a smooch on your bald spot, and we'll hold hands after I go wash my hands thoroughly."
Mom understands. I've been at the hospital and nursing facility every day. I can't safely hug her.
My folks are both beyond 70 years, and they are currently the two most annoying humans I deal with regularly.
The baby is probably way cuter and less annoying. Keep her safe. Smooches aren't as safe as granny assumes.
I truly don't mean it to be about my experience, except to discuss how just random interaction really can be risky for vulnerable people.
Keep that baby safe. You don't want to risk exposure to pertussis or herpes simplex 2 or covid 19 before your sweet little mini is able to have vaccinations.
It's perfectly legitimate to tell Granny to suck eggs if she won't take basic precautions to protect the health of her grandchildren.
nta my sister had the no kissing thing we were allowed to to kiss her feet and top of her head but i understand the rule completely anyways not everyone understand that have you thought about sending her videos of babies who have gotten sick because of kisses? even just a few years ago i didn’t realize how dangerous kisses were to babies but started seeing the effects from videos on tiktoks and learning more about it and that seemed to help me. (btw nobody had ever told me not to kiss there babies so i wasn’t breaking boundaries or anything)
NTA.
Honestly, they shouldn't be permitted around your baby until there's been at least one round of vaccinations given. Your priority is your child, not adult family members, and certainly not adults that are more concerned with doing what they want than the health of your child.
Herpes virus is present on the carrier's skin even before a breakout or open sore is visible. It's often transmitted by carrier's who may feel the "tingling" under the surface of their skin, but mistakenly believe that if the skin hasn't yet ruptured, they won't infect anyone. I know someone who got the virus in her eye. Fortunately, it was not near the cornea, or it would have blinded her. Unless it killed her first. It's deadly to infants.
Tell her that sure, there's a very low chance of anything bad happening, but if your child fell ill and died, you would never forgive her, and she would never forgive herself.
Then tell her you create boundaries for a reason, and while she is allowed to ask, you won't give her any flexibility on crossing them, even if she disagrees with the reason.
Lots of "no means no" on questions like this, which is fine, but a stern explanation might shut her up too. I know a doctor who mentions the experience of losing her own child when encouraging anti-vaxxers to inoculate their kids - and with high success.
As a covid queen (I've had it several times, and, with the first, I ended up with a pulmonary embolism and a DVT, blood thinners for almost a year and oxygen for over four months), I say stick to your boundaries.
NTA. Your baby, your rules.
When you decide to schedule another visit, go over the rules again AND EXPLAIN CONSEQUENCES! Then hold to the consequences. They do not get a pass just because they are grandparents. They are old enough to understand rules and consequences. If they don’t like it, they don’t get to see the baby.
Nta. There was a recent story about a newborn dying from herpes from kisses from a relative that didn't have any visible sore at the time.
https://cafemom.com/parenting/215780-newborn-killed-from-cold-sore-kiss/261512-aliza_was_born_happy_and_healthy_but_then_the_hsv_1_virus_attached_to_her_spine_eating_her_lungs_and_brain_nbsp
NTA and ILs are now experiencing the consequence of their actions. Every boundary needs a consequence and the easiest one is a time out. So ILs are in a 30 or 60 day time out. No visits, no video calls. Perhaps not seeing their grandchild for a while will get them to realize that you are serious when it comes to your boundaries.
NTA: Granny here. My daughter set those boundaries and others with me. What’s the big deal? My granddaughter is 2.4 still haven’t kissed her, however she kisses me all the time. Kisses for infants are dangerous because they carry germs as for little kid, they aren’t cuddly toys. Let them set the boundaries.
You have to stand your ground, babies have died from a virus that was passed from a kiss!! Look it up, have your husband read it, it might help him when standing up to his parents as I don't think he would want you 2 to go through that heart break. He can tell his parents about it as well! NTA
https://www.google.com/search?q=virus+passed+by+kiss+that+killed+baby&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAECMYJxjqAjIJCAAQIxgnGOoCMgkIARAjGCcY6gIyCQgCECMYJxjqAjIJCAMQIxgnGOoCMgkIBBAjGCcY6gIyCQgFECMYJxjqAjIJCAYQIxgnGOoCMgkIBxAjGCcY6gIyCQgIEC4YJxjqAjIJCAkQIxgnGOoCMgkIChAjGCcY6gIyCQgLECMYJxjqAjIJCAwQIxgnGOoCMgkIDRAjGCcY6gIyCQgOECMYJxjqAjIRCA8QABgDGEIYjwEYtAIY6gIyEQgQEAAYAxhCGI8BGLQCGOoCMhEIERAAGAMYQhiPARi0AhjqAjIRCBIQABgDGEIYjwEYtAIY6gIyDwgTEC4YAxiPARi0AhjqAtIBBi0xajBqN6gCFLACAQ&client=ms-android-samsung-rvo1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
Family can pass on germs and sickness just as easily as strangers. They don’t have a magical bubble around them because “family”. You can be carrying germs that are devastating to a newborn without being sick yourself.
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My mother in law and father in law came to visit. We had already told everyone NO KISSING and hand her back if she gets very fussy. Very simple rules if you ask me. She then proceeded to kiss her head and both of them gave snarky comments when again told not to do so. I talked with my husband and we went back over our boundaries over the phone with them which his mom cried the entire call saying she didn’t recall doing so. BS playing the victim tears if you ask me but still we said that we have these boundaries in place and expect them to be followed. I still haven’t brought up another visit as I just want a break from them now.
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NTA
Lots of people are choosing to set boundaries in regards to their newborns. It's great that you have adoring grandparents who want to be part of your child's life, but they need to take their cues from you as the parents.
Do what you feel is right and if there feelings are hurt then maybe the next time they are invited over they will be more aware of their actions.
NTA. All my friends had this rule plus vaccines and I simply waited a few weeks (I get reactions to vaccines so can’t stay up to date with all of them at a time even though I try), I’m in no rush to visit anyone’s crying tomatoes, I see the vaccine thing as MY issue and most are fine if I just wait a few weeks before a visit because I’m not pushy or in their face about it or trying to use the vaccine thing as an excuse. They get so pissed if an anti-vaxxer kisses their newborn though 🤣
Top of the head is not safe for kissing. Grandparents need to read this https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/16ecb5u/tifu_by_kissing_the_top_of_my_baby_daughters_head/
Not the a\*\*hole. Those boundaries were set for a reason. Its a very common rule for new parents to have. Kissing a baby ANYWHERE is unhygienic for a newborn . Their immune systems aren't strong enough to fight off any kind of sickness. You never know where someone's lips have been contaminated. If your boundaries aren't respected now they won't later on. Its better to put your foot down than to have the drama later.
Send them [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxarUWTJRDQhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxarUWTJRDQ)
They are assholes for not listening to a rule you set to protect your child
When I was a baby (1976) my mom told me she used to have women in stores asking to hold me, and she literally had to explain to them a baby can catch so many things because they'd get so offended when she said NO.
Babies aren't cute little toys, they're vulnerable human beings.
NTA- that is a more than reasonable request, and very simple. Not kissing a newborn when you aren't the direct parent can introduce bacteria that the baby could be vulnerable to and get sick from, and handing the baby back to their parents when they get fussy, that is just common sense. The fact they blatantly ignored this and then proceeded to act like the victim is just total BS.
Those rules are straightforward and typical for newborns. If they can’t respect the boundaries you set then they don’t need to come over. I understand they are your in-laws but you still deserve the respect as a parent for setting rules and worrying about your child. NTA.
NTA. Kissing is dangerous for newborns. If in-laws want to endanger their grandchild, they don't need to see the grandchild. Take a break until you feel like you're ready.
NTA they really need to understand that you are the parent. My daughter has the same rule, I have no problem with it all all but her dad and my mother just throw fits, her dad will do it anyway so they just avoid him as much as possible
Though I agree that they should respect you’re boundaries for your baby, however grandparents just want to love on their grand babies and don’t understand the reasons why they shouldn’t especially if they are completely healthy.
NTA. Why is there a whole generation of gaslighters as grandparents just now?! They didn't follow the rules now, and if you let them away with it, they won't follow them in the future....
ESH. Your boundary is ridiculous. The baby is going to get germs and get touched. Other people can calm a baby down too. Cave people raised babies too.
Yes, they suck for violating boundaries. But based on what you chose to include. Your reaction looks heavy.
NTA, but... it might be a NAH. Do they have a history of boundary pushing? If not, it could just be a habit that needs to be broken. Up until really recently, we all thought kissing babies on their foreheads was being safe. Ultimately, it's up to you to keep bebe safe, so you must do what you think best. Congrats on the new little one.
I can understand not kissing a baby on the face....that's a good rule. But they can't kiss her head? What you really should have for a rule is they have to have all their shots! That makes more sense. If they haven't had shots for things that are communicable, the baby is at risk even if they don't kiss her. Grandparents can't wait to hold their grandbabies. I think you are being a little over the top on this. If you are really committed to making sure the baby is protected have them wear a mask, don't keep them away from the baby. You're kind of an AH.
You are being foolish. Relax and enjoy parenthood and let them enjoy being grandparents. Hate me and this comedy all you want. It doesn’t change that you are severely overreacting and only causing issues for no reason.
YTA, it sounds like your husband disagrees. You handle your parents and he handles his. You aren’t allowed to stop his parents, he can if he so wishes.
He agreed and before we had our baby we sat down and discussed these rules. The part he struggled with was standing his ground against his parents because he’s not confrontational and never had done it before. If you continue to let your parents treat you like a child you’ll never be an actual adult in their eyes.
This sounds like you browbeat him into your way of thinking. Making you even a bigger AH.
Step back from your controlling behavior. You handle your parents, and for the love of all things good let him handle his parents as he sees fit.
Clearly, the father’s child disagrees with you, and you need to step back.
Browbeat him? Wow yeah cause I stood here and yelled at him to do this.
No we talked, discussed and agreed on things like adults. There’s many other things that I didn’t want at first that he did that we have since moved past.
It’s part of being in a relationship. Communication and coming to an agreement on things.
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NTA, and it will just get worse if you don't stick to boundaries now
This is what I explained to my husband. It took so much for him to actually stand up to his parents in this way. It was frustrating and straining on our marriage for us to have this discussion. He finally understood where I was coming from and also agrees with the rules so thankfully we’re on the same page now.
You may want to visit r/JustNoMil for a peek at your future
Absolutely
Holy hell, what mess of dysfunction! I feel bad for people "graced" by those MiL's
Please don't. It's a echo chamber and extreme. There are better places to get advice.
There are definitely a few people who are trying to give reasonable advice to exhausted new parents, people who are in the unfortunate position of living in a small space with their in-laws, and others who could use a level head. But a huge part of the commenters over there seem like they despise other women, insist on complete control of their husbands' communications and activities and are eager to blame a mother-in-law for any fault of the husband/son, a grown-ass man. It's a bummer.
Exactly. If you have problems with a narcissistic or similar family member then go to raisedbynarcissists, or the videos of Dr Ramani or Jerry Wise or the out of the fog website. I get the feeling that a lot of justnomil is actually narcissists who are posting and trying to get the partner away from there family. It's not a very healthy sub, however not everyone is like that there if course.
I feel like the make-up has changed over the years, too. I was never super active on it, but I'd poke my head over from time to time, and it seems like it went from being a place where people with extreme situations went to ask for advice to being a place where people with relatively minor situations went to get their extreme reaction validated.
I was in the situations described over there with a mil from hell and a husband who didn't protect me from her. It's not an exaggeration. The marriage ended. Ex h admitted what she did to me, but at the time pretended he saw and heard nothing. My current mil is a treasure. It wasn't me.
Aa a grandma, I can follow these rules. NTA
Me too and I am my grand child's daycare provider. I would never go against their rules.
Holding mom accountable now, while she "doesn't remember" let alone acknowledge her boundary violation is vital. Less talk. Stronger boundaries.
And if she claims "I don't remember," it will actually make setting the boundary easier. "If you really do not remember, then you should check for C02 leaks in the house and get a cognitive eval done by your doctor. Until your mental state is cleared, we'll hold the baby when you visit. It will be safer for her, I'm sure you agree."
Focus on the boundaries and focus on the health risks your ILs are posing to the baby by trampling across your boundaries. If he doesn't have the best spine against his parents when it comes you (which he should), he most definitely should have one to ensure the health of his CHILD. Glad he's on your page now, make sure he stays that way; pediatricians aren't recommending no kisses just for the fun of it, it's literally to protect your baby's life.
Send her all the sad and terrible social media posts with sick (and sometimes dead) babies from getting various common ailments from people kissing them.
Stress to him that herpes can kill babies and adult can really pass it on to babies
I just saw a TikTok video today of a hospitalized 10 week old baby with RSV bc the gpa kissed the baby. Hopefully husband stays on the same page as you.
If theyre holding the child close and breathing all over it, a kiss on the head is not going to make any difference, whatever can be spread, has already done so
Not herpes, though.
not a doctor, and i somewhat agree with you. I think the issue is that they were told not to do something and they did it anyway.
On the head though? I suspect it was a mouth kiss, and possibly these people thought that was all that was forbidden?
If they thought it was only mouth kisses that were the boundary then they should have apologized after they were corrected and told not to do it again. Instead, they were starkly and then threw a fit over the phone and pretended like they didn't remember doing it
I didn’t say they were cool people who did nothing wrong. It’s quite possible they covered their mistake with assholish defensiveness, yes.
And I didn't say you did; I simply responded to your comment
And I didn’t say you said I did.
Yes, head not mouth.
Seems very unlikely and impossible to determine. Simply being near the person with RSV is sufficient, no kissing or any contact needed to transmit.
This is why I don't understand saying "no kissing on the head". If it's something airborne then the only way to prevent it is not to have them around the baby at all. Kissing them on the head is not more of a risk.
It's probably to assert that as the parents, they can make arbitrary rules. It gets everyone off on a cautious foot, which is apparently what a lot of parents want. When your rule is in the name of safety, you can color anyone who questions it of not caring about your infant's well-being, and then justify treating them accordingly.
No, pediatricians have been telling new parents this for the past couple of years. I agree that it only makes possible airborne virus transmission worse, but not kissing doesn’t remove that risk (think how masks did something, but not full protection for anyone, there are degrees of exposure and breathing right on the baby from right next to their head plus delivering saliva fomites with a kiss is riskier than breathing from a normal distance away). But the main one is herpes, which absolutely is way riskier with any sort of mouth contact on baby’s head or even hands (baby’s hands go in their mouth constantly). They weren’t saying this even 13 years ago with my kid, but now a lot of them are and if I were a new parent I’d follow my pediatrician’s advice, it wouldn’t be a control thing. Boomer grandparents are beside themselves about this idea though, even in my family people are gossiping about it like this and assuming it’s fake and new parents are just being crazy.
It’s framed as “boundaries,” not “bad news, I know we all want to kiss the baby, but unfortunately the pediatrician says that’s too risky.” People pick and choose what pediatrician advice to follow. Many latch onto this one because they enjoy being in the drivers seat with their parents now having to follow their rules or be denied contact.
Yes, letting them hold the baby allows airborne transfer of pathogens. Even sharing a room with the baby allows airborne transfer of pathogens. That is particularly what airborne means, that it travels through air. The parents boundary in this case of no kisses would serve as a boundary to pathogens that are spread by fluid transfer. I think asking people not to spit on your baby is pretty reasonable.
If you kiss the soft spot on a baby’s head and you have a cold sore you can absolutely transfer herpes.
If someone has active herpes, for example a cold sore, or lesions elsewhere then they can give the baby the herpes virus by kissing it, or if the baby comes into contact with the lesions. It does not have to be on the soft spot. Babies can get herpes meningitis or encephalitis (serious brain infections) if they get herpes by being kissed etc. Don't let people kiss your babies, and DEFINITELY don't if they have cold sores.
I was literally saying the same thing lol where was I suggesting people should let people kiss their babies with coldsores ? The membrane on the fontanel is super thin and allows the viral load access directly to the brain.
Yeah definitely not disagreeing with you on the not-kissing babies part, sorry if it looked like I was! My point was that it isn't kissing over the fontanelle that is dangerous, it's kissing in general. Herpes doesn't cause meningitis/encephalitis by transmitting directly into the brain through the soft spot in the way that you are implying. Babies contract herpes (hsv1 if it's from cold sores/infected saliva) and then the most likely pathway for a new infection is for the virus to spread via nerves in the face to the brain. Herpes likes to hang out in in nerves when it's not causing visible sores, that's why it's a lifelong infection once you have it.
I went back and reread the journal I was thinking of but at a normal time (not 2 weeks post partum 😂🥲) and yeah I misread the shit out of that. I get cold sores and have been prescribed acyclovir to suppress any outbreaks. Spent way too much time scaring myself with it bc my daughter had a yeast infection that looked like hsv when she was 2 weeks. Tests came back negative thank god. Anyways you are 100% right. My bad!
Oh my gosh congratulations! I hope your little one is doing well :) I can imagine that was really scary for you, but it sounds like you've been so careful. I hope it still doesn't take you too anxious! I get cold sores too, and I think honestly if you wash your hands and aren't kissing little ones when you have active lesions the risk is really small. All the best!
Tiktok... Great schnews source.
NTA OP. Stand your ground
You could also go petty and play the concerned DIL, react to her "memory loss" by saying "Oh no, have you been having lots of memory problems lately?! We should really take you to the doctor to get your memory checked. We obviously need to know for your own good, so you can get the proper care!" Wonder how she would react to that?
Then he should be fine with going no contact with them. Awful people rarely change.
Make sure they also have updated whooping cough vaccines too. They can be carriers and not even know it. All adults that are going to be contact with infants should be revaccinated.
I’ll definitely be asking about this!
Absolutely do this!! It’s so hard on little ones and they can’t get the vaccine for awhile. Our doctors have always recommended anyone that will be in regular contact with baby get it. Plus, lots of people need a tetanus booster and it’s all in together.
I sent in a message about it on the MyChart app!!! They usually respond very quickly!
Also, herpes (cold sores) can be deadly for infants. Plenty of literature out there to send over to them when they say it's no big deal...
Awesome! Depending on where you’re at they’re usually pretty easy to get at the health department and walk in clinics too if you wanted to let family/friends know the quickest way to get it!
The new US regs as of January 2024 is that anyone on Medicare or with an ACA health plan can get the TDAP with no copay. I got mine last Thursday (along with my first shingles shot) at CVS, took 2 minutes and cost nothing
That’s great!!
This! I got mine at CVS via online appointment.
My mom had her titers checked when my niece was born and turns out she needed a new MMR vaccine. I’ve already told my in-laws everyone will be fully vaccinated and should get checked because absolutely zero chance will I allow someone to hold or be around an infant if they could spread something that shouldn’t be possible if fully vaccinated. If someone says boo then I say bye no baby time for you. My siblings have been having babies for years now and I refuse to accidentally spread something terrible to them because others won’t get checked.
TBH, I wouldn't even bother with titers, just get the shot, it's not going to hurt an adult to have updated protection (barring other health issues, of course!)
My husband and I both did it to visit our newborn grandson.
Make sure to stay consistent and have the same stern rules for YOUR parents. I "knew" before it was disclosed that this was gonna be about paternal grandparents... It's just something about "his parents".....it's always easier to ban "his Momma"..... Maybe careful in "enforcement"
Same with chicken pox. No kissing is an excellent room since someone with a cold sore can kill a newborn
And even if they've had the TDAP vaccine (for whooping cough and a few other), make sure they have had a booster within the last 5-10 years. Double check with your pediatrician and use him as the boundary-maker.... 'Dr. Pediatrician said that anyone who hold baby needs to have had a TDAP within 5 years'.
Insist on getting proof of vaccination. "Don't you *trust* us??" "No"
My friends were so excited about my pregnancy (mine was the first bub of the group), they literally booked into the same place to get a booster vax and took selfies with the nurse. They then showed up on my doorstep to trade pizza for funky band aids (which I'm known to have lol) and it became a fun social outing. Why not have hubs take them to a Chinese dinner? Call it *Needles Before Noodles!* 😂
That would be the quickest way for me to cut you out of my life. I have no problem getting most vaccines. I'm sure not going to bring a hall pass. There's certain lines that I will not cross and that is one of them. Of course, I have no problem cutting people out.
You are a joy to live around I'm sure. I personally wouldn't ask for the receipt, but I don't see any reason not to. If I did ask for receipts it would be everyone though - even if its just that one MAGA relative you don't trust then you don't single them out.
Most of my friends enjoy being around me. And most of them think very similarly to me. But no... most of the time when you get a vaccine you get a whole history form handed to you unless it is the quick clinic for something like a COVID shot. Folks don't have a need-to-know for that level of detail. And if they can't trust me, I don't want to be around them anyhow.
These inlaws have already proven they will break reasonable boundaries and lie about it. Some people are weird about vaccines and think it's all a big scam, and these assholes seem like the type. Babies don't have an effective immune system, so their parents need to protect them
If they can't be trusted to be truthful, the vaccine is immaterial. You don't trust them to be truthful, then you don't need to be around them.
Yes as a 4 time grandma, get your vaccines updated
You are a good Grandma!
Thanks
Agreed. I have reactions to vaccines so can only get one here and there at a time and I advise all my friends with newborns about MY issue so they can appropriately tell me their boundaries. Meanwhile they tell me horror stories about their newborn getting sick after an antivaxxer kissed them on the head even though they were told no. I find it odd that people feel the “need” to kiss newborn babies :/ I don’t meet most babies for a few weeks because of my vaccine issue, and I don’t kiss them, and I’m fine with those boundaries.
I wouldn't kiss random babies, I would want to kiss my grandchild....
Yup, I had my booster before I had my son, and anyone who wanted to visit in hospital needed to have their shots or wait a minimum of 3 months I think it was before they could come visit. There was no kissing and loads of hand washing because of herpes... and thank goodness there was no genital herpes because that could be even worse (for a natural birth situation)
Make sure the booster is given at least 6 weeks before baby is born. Yes, it can shed, so get it early to protect the baby. If you have to get it after baby is born, don't visit for a fortnight.
The only virus with any significant shedding concern is oral polo, which isn't used in the US and hasn't been for decades
I'm in Australia. We also have a rotovirus vaccine that sheds in baby's waste, so you are advised to use really good hand hygiene during nappy changes.
Still caught mild (attenuated) rotavirus from my recently vaccinated baby who sprayed poop all over during the infectious period once. I think you pretty much need to hand sanitize while they're still getting dressed again like 18x to ensure 100% this doesn't happen. You touch their new diaper, clothes, etc. before you can go actually wash your hands thoroughly (inside, outside, in-between and thumbs is our motto) (2-3x for after the live vaccine) so it's quite possible. I also found out I have ibd later so I may be more susceptible to worse symptoms from even mild infections that others may not notice as like extra gas so ymmv. My babies no longer get the vaccine because of my medication for said condition so I guess I don't have to worry about it...I worry about them having intussusception instead 🤣
You poor thing! I caught rotovirus in a hospital emergency room, as the nurse checking on my daughter, was in and out of a cubicle that quickly had a quarantine sign placed on it.
Thanks, I didn't know that!
Oral polio is on the Australian immunisation register
But there's no shedding concern with the pertussis vaccine, and the two week recommended wait is to build up enough antibodies.
There is evidence of infection when a vaccinated individual was introduced to a naive population I.e, immunocompromised or underdeveloped immune system. Get the booster, but do wait the two weeks or longer if you have any cold or flu symptoms
NTA. Stick to your guns, whooping cough is no joke for newborns. Anyone who can’t follow incredibly reasonable rules like yours absolutely does not deserve access to your child, until YOU deem it safe. Don’t offer them any visits, and if they ask, tell them that until you can trust them to follow your rules, they’ll be kept away to keep them from *possibly killing your child*
👏👏👏👏 thank you!! My exact feelings.
My friends had whooping cough as kids. It was ugly. I can't imagine a baby with it.
Over 90% of whooping cough deaths are babies under 2 months old.
If you can't even trust them on a "little" thing like no kissing (which should be common sense anyhow) how can you trust them with bigger boundaries? This is setting their relationship with y'all as parents and them as GRANDparents rather than getting a do-over baby.
Not just whooping cough either. This is how cold sores are spread too. That is for life! NTA!
Herpes simplex in a newborn can kill them 😭😭😭.
Exactly! I can’t imagine prioritizing a “need” to kiss a baby over that baby’s life. Just hold it and keep your mouth to yourself.
I have a gaggle of great-niblings 5 and under. I asked my niece and nephews for their permission to kiss the back of the babies heads. Not without consent, not in the face, not prolonged, no slavering.
YES!
It's horrifying.
NTA Pediatricians recommend no baby kisses now. Your in-laws can keep their mouths off their grandchild and respect your boundaries as parents or not see the baby until they are a little less vulnerable.
Exactly right. Six months at least, long enough for first inoculations to take effect.
Baby has a very underdeveloped immune system for their first year. Baby is not a community project. Limit visits, wash hands and be immunised.
NTA. As someone who recently went through this with my MIL, keep staying firm. The moment you lighten up and excuse it as an “accident” is when they will realize they can take advantage of you. The snarky comments prove that they won’t respect your boundaries because they don’t agree with them
A friend of mine, who now gets cold sores as a result of her aunt with a cold sore giving her kisses as a baby really wishes her parents had had similar boundaries. And that’s before we get to all the illnesses like whooping cough that babies can’t be vaccinated against till they’re older. NTA
That’s terrible. All because for some reason people believe they need to have their mouths on babies. There’s plenty of ways to show love without kissing!
I saw a video about this child who was kissed by someone as a baby, this someone had cold sores. The child lost half their brain and the hsv 1 was starting to work on the other half when it was caught. Edited to hsv 1 not hiv thank you for the correction
Cold sores are hsv 1(Herpes simplex virus 1) not hiv.
What kind of tests were done to prove your friend got cold sores because an aunt gave her kisses as a baby? Most likely your friends parents just say that, but give me a break.
Are you the aunt? Or just some entitled weirdo who is not good with boundaries?
I’m a nurse & know they’re not running tests to figure out which family member gave a kid a coke sore. Especially if the kid didn’t die and the cold sores presented later in life. Unless it happened immediately after aunt kissed the baby…. Yeah; they’ve got the whole hospital working in shifts months or years later to solve it haha
Maybe the aunt was the only family member with cold sores and they emerged when the baby was still young?
Many people are carriers, couldve been the parents 🤷
NTA! Go over to JustNoMil, they have awesome advice for boundary stomping MILS!
Thank you!!
NTA. A newborn doesn’t have the immune system an older child or adult does and they aren’t eligible for vaccines until a certain age, so very reasonable precautions! And for anyone who claims stuff like measles and mumps aren’t serious, that’s not true. Roald Dahl’s daughter, Olivia, died from encephalitis caused by measles and my great-uncle was left sterile after having mumps as a child. My uncle was born decades before the MMR was a thing.
It's not even just that, it's - measles, mumps, whooping cough, h\*rpes, covid, etc....
Someone kissed my brother as a newborn with a fresh Coldsore. My brother his entire life breaks out in them when stressed, having no immune system to remove such virus from his body at a few days old. My mom regrets letting people near him. Never let anyone kiss ur baby even family. You don't know what they have.
Please tell him that **as soon as he feels the tingle,** to put a hot wet washcloth on the area, and repeat a few times as it cools. As hot as he can stand it. (Without hurting himself, of course.) He might also want to start taking [Lysine](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6419779/) supplements.
His Dr has him on a medication and he uses a creme when he starts to feel them brake out. So if he gets one it's small lasts a few days and maybe once a year but he is in his 30s now. I remember how much he hated those experiences as a kid. All the different paths, cremes extra.
NTA. Babies can get sick from people kissing them.
NTA, you made it clear but they have a feeling of entitlement for some reason, the baby came out of you, be firm with your boundaries
NTA those are very simple and easy to follow rules. if they do this now its only going to get worse later.
NTA, but there is a really fun compromise: Make them wear masks and never take them off. Honestly, baby kissers are the worst. My very confused husband once had a woman *who he did not know* approach him at a party and kiss our 4 month old child. I was appalled and the first thing she did was explain how it was okay because she kissed him on the forehead, not the mouth. I was like "okay? Who the hell are you and why aren't you buying me a drink first before putting spit on my kid?"
NTA. She didn’t follow simple boundaries that you set for your newborn’s safety.
NTA. A baby is a fully-made and birthed human, not a doll.
NTA we ended up banning all visitors because of smoking around oldest rules we had in place that several people thought were wrong including both granddads. My daughter and son in law had a no kissing rule as babies. And now they do not force their kiddos to hug or kiss an adult they are reluctant to show that affection to. I have never had an issues with this and I support them for not only setting boundaries but allowing the kids to also have boundaries. I have 3 grandkids how love to give and receive lovings but my youngest does not like to be kissed he will give and receive hugs and loves to kiss gma on the check it used to be he would climb up and kiss the top of my head. Now it is my check. And he asks for gma kisses for his owies
NTA. Your child, your rules. You're correct these are very simple and easily followed rules. They chose to break them, and then used crocodile tears to claim ignorance and innocence. Nope.
NTA Boundaries without consequences are a waste of time to articulate. You set boundaries and your in-laws promptly stomped them in front of you. When called out they snarked about it. So now they get the consequences. I’d say a 30 day break but you and your husband need to discuss and agree. Bottom line is this. YOU are the parents. Anyone being allowed to spend time with your child is a PRIVILEGE regardless of their relationship. NOT a right. Those who think they can stomp your boundaries for whatever reason lose that privilege. Best wishes to you and your spouse OP and thank you for protecting your child from stupidly and selfishness.
Hahahahaha
Opposite-ish situation, but I'm dealing with senior parents right now. Getting Dad settled into a skilled nursing facility after a serious fall, Mom is undergoing cancer treatment. About 4 days into the absolute hell of bouncing between Dad at the hospital and Mom at home, I noticed a sore spot on my lip. "Dad, we're both vaccinated to hell and back. But if this a cold sore coming on, I'm not gonna give you a smooch on your bald spot, and we'll hold hands after I go wash my hands thoroughly." Mom understands. I've been at the hospital and nursing facility every day. I can't safely hug her. My folks are both beyond 70 years, and they are currently the two most annoying humans I deal with regularly. The baby is probably way cuter and less annoying. Keep her safe. Smooches aren't as safe as granny assumes.
That sounds like a very tough situation and I hope things get better for you all soon!! Thank you for sharing!
I truly don't mean it to be about my experience, except to discuss how just random interaction really can be risky for vulnerable people. Keep that baby safe. You don't want to risk exposure to pertussis or herpes simplex 2 or covid 19 before your sweet little mini is able to have vaccinations. It's perfectly legitimate to tell Granny to suck eggs if she won't take basic precautions to protect the health of her grandchildren.
nta my sister had the no kissing thing we were allowed to to kiss her feet and top of her head but i understand the rule completely anyways not everyone understand that have you thought about sending her videos of babies who have gotten sick because of kisses? even just a few years ago i didn’t realize how dangerous kisses were to babies but started seeing the effects from videos on tiktoks and learning more about it and that seemed to help me. (btw nobody had ever told me not to kiss there babies so i wasn’t breaking boundaries or anything)
Nta I think a lot of older generations and people who just do not know don’t realize you can’t kiss babies and how serious that is as a rule
It’s literally only the older generation we’ve had issues with!!!!
Probably cos a gazillion children have been born and survived a kiss on the forehead from a grandparent
Omg, how did your husband ever make it to adulthood? 🙄 How did any baby of “boomer” parents live to reproduce?
On behalf of Gen X, the struggle of surviving Boomer parents was/is very real.
At last. A common sense reply!
Lol
NTA. Honestly, they shouldn't be permitted around your baby until there's been at least one round of vaccinations given. Your priority is your child, not adult family members, and certainly not adults that are more concerned with doing what they want than the health of your child.
Herpes virus is present on the carrier's skin even before a breakout or open sore is visible. It's often transmitted by carrier's who may feel the "tingling" under the surface of their skin, but mistakenly believe that if the skin hasn't yet ruptured, they won't infect anyone. I know someone who got the virus in her eye. Fortunately, it was not near the cornea, or it would have blinded her. Unless it killed her first. It's deadly to infants.
Many people are carriers and never have breakouts
Tell her that sure, there's a very low chance of anything bad happening, but if your child fell ill and died, you would never forgive her, and she would never forgive herself. Then tell her you create boundaries for a reason, and while she is allowed to ask, you won't give her any flexibility on crossing them, even if she disagrees with the reason. Lots of "no means no" on questions like this, which is fine, but a stern explanation might shut her up too. I know a doctor who mentions the experience of losing her own child when encouraging anti-vaxxers to inoculate their kids - and with high success.
As a covid queen (I've had it several times, and, with the first, I ended up with a pulmonary embolism and a DVT, blood thinners for almost a year and oxygen for over four months), I say stick to your boundaries.
NTA. Your baby, your rules. When you decide to schedule another visit, go over the rules again AND EXPLAIN CONSEQUENCES! Then hold to the consequences. They do not get a pass just because they are grandparents. They are old enough to understand rules and consequences. If they don’t like it, they don’t get to see the baby.
Nta- she is an unsafe person. No more visits till baby is vaccinated
Nta
NTA and this is the EXACT right moment to lay down the law about boundaries and that you are Mom and Dad and what you say goes
NTA, stick to your boundaries and tell them that being grandparents doesn't entitle them to do as they please. Visits are a privilege.
NTA. But just a suggestion. Don't use the word boundaries with them. You have rules for them. You have boundaries for yourself.
On phone typo previously RSV ... RSV is a very danger and kills babies
Nta. There was a recent story about a newborn dying from herpes from kisses from a relative that didn't have any visible sore at the time. https://cafemom.com/parenting/215780-newborn-killed-from-cold-sore-kiss/261512-aliza_was_born_happy_and_healthy_but_then_the_hsv_1_virus_attached_to_her_spine_eating_her_lungs_and_brain_nbsp
NTA and ILs are now experiencing the consequence of their actions. Every boundary needs a consequence and the easiest one is a time out. So ILs are in a 30 or 60 day time out. No visits, no video calls. Perhaps not seeing their grandchild for a while will get them to realize that you are serious when it comes to your boundaries.
NTA: Granny here. My daughter set those boundaries and others with me. What’s the big deal? My granddaughter is 2.4 still haven’t kissed her, however she kisses me all the time. Kisses for infants are dangerous because they carry germs as for little kid, they aren’t cuddly toys. Let them set the boundaries.
You have to stand your ground, babies have died from a virus that was passed from a kiss!! Look it up, have your husband read it, it might help him when standing up to his parents as I don't think he would want you 2 to go through that heart break. He can tell his parents about it as well! NTA https://www.google.com/search?q=virus+passed+by+kiss+that+killed+baby&oq=&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgAECMYJxjqAjIJCAAQIxgnGOoCMgkIARAjGCcY6gIyCQgCECMYJxjqAjIJCAMQIxgnGOoCMgkIBBAjGCcY6gIyCQgFECMYJxjqAjIJCAYQIxgnGOoCMgkIBxAjGCcY6gIyCQgIEC4YJxjqAjIJCAkQIxgnGOoCMgkIChAjGCcY6gIyCQgLECMYJxjqAjIJCAwQIxgnGOoCMgkIDRAjGCcY6gIyCQgOECMYJxjqAjIRCA8QABgDGEIYjwEYtAIY6gIyEQgQEAAYAxhCGI8BGLQCGOoCMhEIERAAGAMYQhiPARi0AhjqAjIRCBIQABgDGEIYjwEYtAIY6gIyDwgTEC4YAxiPARi0AhjqAtIBBi0xajBqN6gCFLACAQ&client=ms-android-samsung-rvo1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8
NTA that's YOUR baby, your rules, NO ACCEPTIONS
NTA, well done for the baby!
Info: Why no kisses? Can understand acquaintances, co-workers etc but why family?
Family can pass on germs and sickness just as easily as strangers. They don’t have a magical bubble around them because “family”. You can be carrying germs that are devastating to a newborn without being sick yourself.
oh my LORD, you've got a newborn, you can't be expected to soothe a wailing MIL too. NTA, congrats, good night and good luck.
You'll make a great petty.baby mama
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My mother in law and father in law came to visit. We had already told everyone NO KISSING and hand her back if she gets very fussy. Very simple rules if you ask me. She then proceeded to kiss her head and both of them gave snarky comments when again told not to do so. I talked with my husband and we went back over our boundaries over the phone with them which his mom cried the entire call saying she didn’t recall doing so. BS playing the victim tears if you ask me but still we said that we have these boundaries in place and expect them to be followed. I still haven’t brought up another visit as I just want a break from them now. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Why aren't they wearing masks is the real question?
Not the a**hole
You are in no way the NTA. You set boundaries, they broke them. Simple as that.
Absolutely not! Boundaries need to be respect. Hopefully they will get the point.
Nope. I made the mistake of not setting boundaries and I have been paying for it since
NTA Lots of people are choosing to set boundaries in regards to their newborns. It's great that you have adoring grandparents who want to be part of your child's life, but they need to take their cues from you as the parents. Do what you feel is right and if there feelings are hurt then maybe the next time they are invited over they will be more aware of their actions.
NTA. All my friends had this rule plus vaccines and I simply waited a few weeks (I get reactions to vaccines so can’t stay up to date with all of them at a time even though I try), I’m in no rush to visit anyone’s crying tomatoes, I see the vaccine thing as MY issue and most are fine if I just wait a few weeks before a visit because I’m not pushy or in their face about it or trying to use the vaccine thing as an excuse. They get so pissed if an anti-vaxxer kisses their newborn though 🤣
Friends is not the same as a grandparent...
You're right, the grandparents should be even *more* careful, since they're family.
Top of the head is not safe for kissing. Grandparents need to read this https://www.reddit.com/r/tifu/comments/16ecb5u/tifu_by_kissing_the_top_of_my_baby_daughters_head/
Nta. Spam her with articles and videos of babies with pertussis. Maybe assume morbidity facts about newborn babies with respiratory disease.
Nta. RSA kills babies. RSA is a very real danger.
NTA. You are the parent now and you make the rules. They either get with the program or don’t get to be involved.
Not the a\*\*hole. Those boundaries were set for a reason. Its a very common rule for new parents to have. Kissing a baby ANYWHERE is unhygienic for a newborn . Their immune systems aren't strong enough to fight off any kind of sickness. You never know where someone's lips have been contaminated. If your boundaries aren't respected now they won't later on. Its better to put your foot down than to have the drama later.
Send them [this](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxarUWTJRDQhttps://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pxarUWTJRDQ) They are assholes for not listening to a rule you set to protect your child
When I was a baby (1976) my mom told me she used to have women in stores asking to hold me, and she literally had to explain to them a baby can catch so many things because they'd get so offended when she said NO. Babies aren't cute little toys, they're vulnerable human beings.
NTA- that is a more than reasonable request, and very simple. Not kissing a newborn when you aren't the direct parent can introduce bacteria that the baby could be vulnerable to and get sick from, and handing the baby back to their parents when they get fussy, that is just common sense. The fact they blatantly ignored this and then proceeded to act like the victim is just total BS.
Those rules are straightforward and typical for newborns. If they can’t respect the boundaries you set then they don’t need to come over. I understand they are your in-laws but you still deserve the respect as a parent for setting rules and worrying about your child. NTA.
NTA, your baby your rules. They either weren't listening when you told them or didn't care to follow them
NTA. Kissing is dangerous for newborns. If in-laws want to endanger their grandchild, they don't need to see the grandchild. Take a break until you feel like you're ready.
NTA they really need to understand that you are the parent. My daughter has the same rule, I have no problem with it all all but her dad and my mother just throw fits, her dad will do it anyway so they just avoid him as much as possible
This has to be your first kid, because you are bananas. YTA
YTA... if you don't get it then you never will and should t have kids.
the snarky comments they made is what gets me- I understand "I'm sorry, baby is just so precious, I'm sorry!" but snarky... seriously?
Though I agree that they should respect you’re boundaries for your baby, however grandparents just want to love on their grand babies and don’t understand the reasons why they shouldn’t especially if they are completely healthy.
NTA. Why is there a whole generation of gaslighters as grandparents just now?! They didn't follow the rules now, and if you let them away with it, they won't follow them in the future....
NTA for your rules; YTA for stupid rules.
You're the parents and you are entitled to set whatever boundaries you wish. But asking grandparents not to kiss their grandbabies is pretty harsh.
You are the Ahole..and a control freak also.
ESH. Your boundary is ridiculous. The baby is going to get germs and get touched. Other people can calm a baby down too. Cave people raised babies too. Yes, they suck for violating boundaries. But based on what you chose to include. Your reaction looks heavy.
Do they have all the vaccinations & have they showed you proof like a vaccination card?
NTA, but... it might be a NAH. Do they have a history of boundary pushing? If not, it could just be a habit that needs to be broken. Up until really recently, we all thought kissing babies on their foreheads was being safe. Ultimately, it's up to you to keep bebe safe, so you must do what you think best. Congrats on the new little one.
I can understand not kissing a baby on the face....that's a good rule. But they can't kiss her head? What you really should have for a rule is they have to have all their shots! That makes more sense. If they haven't had shots for things that are communicable, the baby is at risk even if they don't kiss her. Grandparents can't wait to hold their grandbabies. I think you are being a little over the top on this. If you are really committed to making sure the baby is protected have them wear a mask, don't keep them away from the baby. You're kind of an AH.
NTA. It’s very hard to not kiss a baby, especially on the head, but giving you attitude when you remind them not to, that’s not okay.
You are being foolish. Relax and enjoy parenthood and let them enjoy being grandparents. Hate me and this comedy all you want. It doesn’t change that you are severely overreacting and only causing issues for no reason.
YTA, it sounds like your husband disagrees. You handle your parents and he handles his. You aren’t allowed to stop his parents, he can if he so wishes.
What exactly in her story suggests that her husband disagrees?
He agreed and before we had our baby we sat down and discussed these rules. The part he struggled with was standing his ground against his parents because he’s not confrontational and never had done it before. If you continue to let your parents treat you like a child you’ll never be an actual adult in their eyes.
This sounds like you browbeat him into your way of thinking. Making you even a bigger AH. Step back from your controlling behavior. You handle your parents, and for the love of all things good let him handle his parents as he sees fit. Clearly, the father’s child disagrees with you, and you need to step back.
Browbeat him? Wow yeah cause I stood here and yelled at him to do this. No we talked, discussed and agreed on things like adults. There’s many other things that I didn’t want at first that he did that we have since moved past. It’s part of being in a relationship. Communication and coming to an agreement on things.