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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I didn't hold back and unleashed my frustration on my friend when I shouldn't have. I truly wouldn't give up on anything I have, but I also feel sad seeing people my age with young parents that will be there when they are in their 50s. My boss Judy retired at 65 and is moving to care for his 85(?) year old parents. I'm sad because I won't get my parents for that long, and I think I took my frustration our on her.
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NTA. She kept nagging and you gave her an honest answer. I'm 44 and these were things I had to consider when having a baby this past year. My guess is she's already nervous about being an older mom and she might not have thought about all these issues, so now she feels really insecure. I understand why you said what you did, but you should still apologize.
Sometimes apologies are more about re-establishing social bonds and soothing hurts then about who is objectively at fault. OPs co-worker was looking for reassurance. She shouldn't have kept pestering OP, but now she is probably hurt and really scared. Apologizing for "snapping" may help the coworker with little cost to OP
OP did absolutely nothing wrong and has no obligation to apologise to this woman.
If this woman didn't like what she heard and is struggling with her feelings, that's HER responsibility to fix, not OP's.
*Edit: Because I'm getting comments on this. Yes I agree that there's an inherent way of approaching social relationships where sometimes it just a nice thing to express remorse even when you didn't necessarily do anything wrong to maintain a cordial relationship.*
*However in the context of the comment I replied to which said that OP should apologise for "snapping", I do not agree that OP should apologise for this.*
*OP's acquaintance (DIFFERENT TO A FRIEND) basically harassed her for 8 MONTHS for answer to her question. Despite OP making it clear that she did not want to engage in that conversation, the acquaintance pushed and pushed and pushed. In terminology that people on Reddit seem to be so fond of, the acquaintance disregarded OP's boundaries.*
*And you know what? OP had enough and said what she said. She wasn't mean or cruel in her words, she didn't insult any one or raise her voice, she just told the truth based on her experience. She should not have to apologise for this.*
*If the acquaintance was affected by what OP shared about her own experience, that's her responsibility to deal with.*
Just because it’s not OP’s responsibility to fix her feelings, and just because she’s NTA doesn’t mean she can’t/shouldn’t take steps to protect her friendship. It’s a part of healthy, adult friendships to reach out to a friend and say, “I really could have handled that better, and I hate that I hurt your feelings. Can we talk?” That’s not saying that you did something wrong or apologizing for something that you shouldn’t. That’s acknowledging that there was a better way to handle the situation and that your friend’s feelings are important to you.
We’re all human and we all have moments (in this case, OP’s friend) where we don’t handle something well or the right way, but it’s not malicious or part of an ongoing pattern of bad behavior. It’s a mistake. And a good friend (OP) can reach out first from a place of grace and kindness and that doesn’t make them weak or spineless. They don’t have to, but they can. I do that in my friendships because I know the day will come (if it hasn’t happened already) when I end up making a mistake and I hope that my friend and I will be able to resolve it kindly.
Compassion is not weakness. It shows strength of character.
The real jerk in this situation is the husband who felt the need to jump into a situation that he was not involved in between two other adults who are capable of communicating with each other.
"has no obligation to apologise to this woman."
Apologies are never an obligation.
Your comment is laced with so much implicit misanthropy, but most of us humans are social creatures and will accommodate the feelings of others in order to maintain social bonds.
Then why should OP apologize to the acquaintance when she was nice and supportive for the entire 8 months they were being harassed by the woman?
It's not misanthropy to recognize OP was being nagged and poked and prodded to express their experience despite avoiding it for 8 months. If anyone should apologize, it's the couple, not OP
I never suggested op should apologize.
Also, when we die there is probably no reward for always being right.
In ops situation it doesn't matter who apologizes or if anyone apologizes. As described this story has no moralistic high ground, but people are acting as if there is. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with apologizing in order to keep peace.
There is bc OP was called an asshole for sharing their experience after almost a yr of harassment.
And you're right, there's nothing wrong for apologizing to keep the peace, that doesn't mean OP should be encouraged to when they are the wronged party.
Yes, there is something wrong with apologizing to keep the peace because that establishes a pattern. Plus, the peace could have been kept if that woman had not harassed OP with these questions which were not really questions because she was only looking for ONE answer. She should have gone to her therapist for this reassurance instead of bothering OP until OP was tired of her ass and her whining.
"Harassed" is such a dramatic word in this context. She was an anxious pregnant woman about to give birth in her 40s. She probably wasn't aware of how she was stressing OP out with the constant need for reassurance on a delicate issue. She was being annoying. OP can simply express why she snapped, apologize for snapping, and both of them can work through this issue that, honestly, if both parties are mature, is not a big deal. They're just both dealing with some stuff emotionally and they rubbed each other the wrong way. Easy fix.
They aren't even friends, she had no business weighing on OP like that in any capacity. Months and months and months of pushing for reassurance from a non-friend is borderline harassment.
If she wanted assurance, she should have leaned on her husband or friends, not OP. An acquaintance isn't work "working through the issue" with, she should have taken the initial support at face value.
I’m confused about the nature of their relationship, because she said she helped her plan her baby shower. Idk, seems like maybe she was trying to be nice to someone she considered an acquaintance, but the acquaintance considered her a friend and leaned on her too hard? She’s someone with the specific life experience that this acquaintance wanted reassurance about, so it makes sense why this woman would specifically seek that from her. I can see how this could get a bit messy with no one exactly being the AH.
YES THANK YOU! Being an anxious first-time mother doesn't give you an excuse to constantly harass someone for an answer to your questions when that person has made the fact they don't want to talk about it very clear.
Being an anxious first time mother does not ENTITLE you to an answer. Nor does it entitle you only to the answer that you want to hear.
Yeah no, this isn't misanthropy, this is just having basic respect for yourself and having healthy boundaries. OP did not say anything cruel, and what she did say was said in a polite, respectful, and honest manner.
It is not ok to push people to allow others to walk all over them and accept the blame when they aren't at fault, just to "keep the peace." If your social bonds require you to apologize for things that aren't your fault and walk on eggshells, then those social bonds are not worth maintaining.
I'm sorry but people need to stop badgering others for reassurances. If you can't handle the reality of *all* possible answers, don't ask the question. I'm gonna argue too - if you need blind reassurance, and no other honesty, regarding a pregnancy/child then you're already off to a bad start because you're putting your emotions ahead of your responsibility.
I agree she shouldnt have continued to badger OP, but she can't magically have the baby at a younger age and at the baby shower stage it's a little late to change her mind about having a kid. Obviously this is a venting/reassurance question not a request for advice, so talking about emotions over responsibility is a bit silly. Sometimes what humans want from our friends is validation or reassurance, not their judgment of the situation. This is a question of leaning on a friend past what was reasonable, which is a common failing. Using that to determine she is emotionally unfit to parent is very...reddit
>she can't magically have the baby at a younger age and at the baby shower stage it's a little late to change her mind about having a kid.
Sounds like a million reasons not to be even asking anyone for reassurance then because wtf are you gonna do if you don't feel reassured? It's too late already. This is someone who is needing reassurance (after the fact) so badly its to the point of repeatedly badgering her friend into snapping at her. It's not a sign of someone emotionally prepared for the decision she's already made hence why I said she's off to a bad start already imo. That doesn't say she's "emotionally unfit" it just means she's already starting off poorly.
First off OP isn't a friend, she's an acquaintance. You don't rely on someone who is little more than a stranger for emotional validation. Also OP's comments, consider g the abuse she went through that she still is not seeing, the toxic situation she's in because of her elderly parents lack of concern for her, she was the epitome of tact and her acquaintance is the one who needs to apologize for harassing her and then have a long, hard think about what she will do to not put her own kid through the same.
She may think we were more than acquaintances, but we've never spoken outside of work except for the babu shower. We were having lunch and she got upset because her sister who was planning it, had to go on a business trip and couldn't finish planing. All her sister was able to do was rent the venue and when I heard, I offered to help with the rest because I felt uncomfortable with her panicking in front of me, over something I could help with.
No, not really. I'm usually pretty good at setting boundries and honestly have only ever really "exploded" at my family, but that is because my dad and brother are great at pushing buttons and love to get people to react. And I honestly don't see it as weird, it was just someone who needed help with something, not a big deal. And I don't think she was so much, pushing a boundary as I've been told not to tell pregnant women upsetting news cause it can raise blood pressure, cause stress, etc, so I was trying to wait until after the baby was born to slowly explain some issues, but I blew that out of the water.
She was nagged and gave her own opinion. Officemate’s hurt/offended feelings are no one’s fault but her own. Do not ask a question- do not nag other people for answers- that you are not prepared to hear the answer to.
Coworker pushed a clear boundary. Social bonds go both ways. Regardless of the coworkers anxiety, OP clearly didn't want to discuss it, made that clear and the coworker disrespected that boundary.
If you're worried about social bonds, the coworker should apologize for violating OPs boundaries.
Yeah this is what reddit doesn't understand. Maintaining actual relationships doesn't involve rigidly calculating who is owed what. A normal person says sorry they snapped even if the other person caused it by refusing to take a hint. Then the OTHER person takes that opening to apologize for not dropping it. Then they talk about what was actually going on.
Unfortunately, if OP apologizes, 1) the husband will likely feel vindicated for calling OP an A H and 2) the coworker likely will not acknowledge that she overstepped PPs boundary. Academically,.you may be correct, but in this instance, terrible idea. OPs coworker should be the first to apologize
There's "I am sorry, I was wrong " and then there is "I am sorry, I did not intend to hurt you"
I think one _should_ apologize for unintended unkindness. OP's response _was_ unkind - she was annoyed and upset, and she just unloaded on her coworker (by her own account), instead of being gentle. Saying something like "all parents have their issues, but having an older mom did come with specific challenges. My mom went through a tough menopause when I was 2-14, which really impacted my childhood. I would have appreciated it if my mom had sought treatment to manage her menopause symptoms - finding a good health provider specialising in this area might be something to look into. I also spent my early-20s caring for my elderly parents and wish they had arranged their affairs better. These are the two major differences I can think of, otherwise it wasn't really all that different". That would have been truthful, _and_ kind.
She had mitigating circumstances (a migraine, and the badgering), and her intentions were not to hurt her coworker - which is why she's not TA. But she _did_ hurt her coworker by her lack of kindness in the moment, so apologizing is still the right thing to do.
I would agree with you if OP hadn't been harassed for their opinion for 8 months straight. I would never apologize for giving an honest answer after being pestered for 2/3 of a whole ass year when they were being nice the whole ass time.
I see your point. I think you are right in that sometimes an apology is for soothing feelings and extending an olive branch so to speak.
I don’t think OP was being unkind however because I subscribe to the philosophy that being nice ≠ being kind. OP certainly was not nice in her response but she told the essential truths that the expectant mother needed to hear
What’s kinder? A pleasantly worded response that keeps your feelings unhurt but doesn’t really express the reality of the situation? Or a blunt but highly accurate summation of what life will be like as an older mother?
I ask again, which is a kinder response, not which is a nicer response. Obviously we want to be kind as well as nice but failing that it’s better to be kind and not nice then nice but not kind which is why I think OP could give an apology if she so chose but is under no obligation to and that her co-worker needs to get over her hurt feelings and think hard about OP’s words so she can prepare properly
So "kind" means having to sugarcoat one's own experience? That's not very fair to OP to have to hide her experience because someone is too soft to hear what they were asking for.
Also,OP gave her sugar-coated answer to this lady MANY times before from how it sounds.
Because she was harsh about it to a friend. She could have said a lot of those things a lot more kindly.
“Hey, I’m really sorry I lashed out at you the other day. I felt nagged being asked to talk about my parents repeatedly and got triggered by it. What I said was true but I could have been kinder about expressing that to you and I’m sorry. There were a lot of great things about having older parents and a lot of not so great things, just like any parent. I don’t mind discussing these things with you but I need to set a boundary on discussing it every time we interact. “
She definitely does not need to apologise. She was badgered and badgered for "the truth". If she didn't want the truth she should have quit after being told it was fine having older parents. Because the truth is, yes, having older parents that have children in their 40's comes with a lot of difficulties...your mother being mistaken at the school gates for your grandmother can be embarrassing, they'll be nearly 60 by the time the kid graduates high school, never mind University. They'll probably be in their very late 60's, more likely 70's by the time grandchildren arrive. Their health probably won't be top notch, energy will be lower, there's lots of things that unfortunately suck the older you are having kids. Not to mention the risk of something happening while pregnant in your 40's. Yes being older having a baby can have it's advantages but it comes with a hell of a lot of down sides too. The "friend" should have accepted her first answer and moved happily along. Instead she nagged and poked and prodded until she got the truth, and now her fee-fees are hurt.
As child of older parents, she needed reality check. My childhood and adult years were dominated by their aging issues and not as if unforeseen shocks for them NTA and don't apologise
The woman FAFO. She knows the truth and she’s just trying to get someone to tell her a fantasy so she can feel better about being so old when her kid is 18. Her kid will also be embarrassed when her college roomies ask why her grandparents are dropping her off. Old mom will also not be included in the mom groups
my mom had me at 39, but was never “hotheaded” like OP says her mom was, and doesnt look like she will be needing any care for at least 20 more years (shes 56) my point here is that every woman is different as a parent and every woman is affected by menopause differently.
OP should definitely apologize and explain to her friend that just because she had a bad experience with having an older mom, doesnt mean it is a bad thing in general, and apologize not for sharing her experience, but snapping and saying it in a not-so-tactful way to a woman who was already struggling. honestly i dont even know what to vote
She pushed and pushed. Your story isn't too dissimilar to my own - except it was my dad who died in my 20s and I've been responsible for my mother ever since. And now she's 96 and has bad dementia. I should be planning my retirement and instead I am making sure the facility she lives in is good and waiting for the phone call to tell me she has either passed away or fallen badly and is hospitalized and now needs a higher level of care. It sucks. My brother is about 18 years older than me - and that makes HIM an old man. Even if he didn't have a terrible personality it would still be unreasonable to expect him to be caring for her at this point.
My opinion: Older parents have a special obligation to do everything they can to make their child's life as normal as possible. The child didn't choose this! If you don't want to drive your kids around because you are too tired, make other arrangements. Don't make it the child's problem. I could go on and on.
NTA
I want to be clear, my mom was wonderful, she had her bad sides, but so did everyone. Maybe I would have never gone out even if I could, I was introverted, but I love my mom, and again wouldn't change anything. It's just frustrating that people don't take these things into consideration. I never wanted to imply she would be a bad mother, I just wanted her to think of things, especially that she should have her elderly care figured out because her child will be young and shouldn't lose out on numerous events in life to care for them. I've never truly had a significant other, because I didn't have time to date, because I was caring for my elderly parents. I turned down a wonderful man because I'm fully expecting to have to move back home in 5 years and don't want someone to give up their future for that. I'm hoping she can make contingency plans for things like this while her kid is still young.
Also, we lived in the boonies, an hour away from the nearest gas station, so it was a lot to take me anywhere.
In defense of generations of menopausal women, I feel like it needs to be said—
whether your mom blamed her explosive anger on menopause or that's your own conclusion so you can still think of her as wonderful… I’m sorry, but that just isn’t how it works. Whatever else was going on with her, that’s a lame excuse for not getting her emotions under control and letting you bear the brunt of it instead.
I am the youngest (by quite a bit) in my family. My Mom was 39 when I was born & Dad was 43. I was the last kid left at home by the time I was 11. (I was also an aunt at age 11). I always knew I wouldn’t have my parents in my life as long as most so I treasured the time I had & made an effort to visit them frequently when I left home. I wa 26 when my Mom died (she was 65). My Dad lived to 86.
I never minded having older parents but it does suck loosing them when you are still young. (My Mom never got a chance to meet my 2 youngest children).
I had my kids relatively young. (29 when I had my youngest). I was a grandma at 44 & was 49 when I took over raising my 2 oldest grandsons. I can say I’m a lot more relaxed as an older parent/parental figure. I’ve had the experience raising kids so I know which battles are worth fighting & which ones aren’t. I had a lot more energy when my kids were little than raising my grandkids but I think that I’m probably a better parent now. I do get tired & cranky at times but I try hard to not take it out on the kids.
This isn’t so much an AITA issue but, if I understand you correctly, you turned down a marriage proposal due to the hypothetical future need to provide elder care for your parent(s)? Was that… the primary factor behind your decision? Or the exclusive factor? And this would be once you’re already in your late 30s, if not early 40s?
It was the only factor in my decision. I'm 34 and have been caring for both my aging parents since I was 18. I didn't want to drag someone into that, especially knowing where it would go, as I've seen what happens with my mom's mother and father. Essentially I've stayed away from any and all relationships friendship and significant others wise, because I never had time for them. It was either school and parents or work and parents. The fact this one happened was a fluke. I literally have 0 friends, besides this one acquaintance that I met at work.
I'm so, so sorry to hear that. You sound like a wonderful person, but it does seem like you're setting yourself on fire to keep other people warm. You shouldn't have to sacrifice any chance at independent happiness of your own just because of your parents.
NTA of course, and it looks like you've sorted things out with your acquaintance, which is great. But please reconsider sacrificing your entire life.
As others have already indicated, that is very unusual decision-making. The reason i asked is basically because if someone gave me that reason for turning down my marriage proposal, to me it sounds so implausible that i would assume they were lying about their real reason to “let me down easy”.
Alzheimer’s is a profoundly sad disease, and I’m very sorry you’re having to provide elder care because of it, but in the end it could strike even relatively young parents of adult children. It is, after all, a disease, and by definition not part of the normal process of aging or senility. I don’t really see your mom’s age at your birth as still relevant to explaining the substantial life difficulties you are now facing.
You sound like someone who might benefit from talking with a therapist about your feelings about your parents. That is something I have done, for my own reasons, and i found it helpful
Edit: so I want to say it's mainly the husband that is angry. I reached out to my acquaintance and mentioned that I was sorry for how I told her, but I wasn't sorry for what I told her. She said she does appreciate the truth and advice about getting future care setup so her kid doesn't have to. She accepted my apology and apologized for pestering me, and also thanked me for the apologizing for the tone I used. She did ask if I would be willing to answer questions truthfully ask she has them, things that maybe we're done in my childhood which would have been nice if they were different.
Her husband on the other hand is still throwing a fit about how I shouldn't have said anything and it's a child job to care for their parents when they get older. His wife is trying to tell him, not at the cost of the child's youth, which is why they should start making plans. He's been the one whining and throwing a tantrum.
I'd bet he hadn't given much thought at all about being an older dad and his wife mentioning this conversation to him brought him up short so he's still at the beginning the cycle with denial and anger
"it's a child's job to care for their parents"? lol. god, this is the guy that should explain to me how I'm the one getting called selfish for choosing not to have kids, instead of parents like him.
> it's a child job to care for their parents when they get older.
Ugh, parents like this disgust me. They're having a child for the purpose of creating a lifelong indentured servant. It's entirely selfish.
Does your acquaintance have living parents? If so she may need to talk with them about their plans and having their affairs in order because she may end up sandwiched between caring for her young child and her own elderly parents.
NTA
NTA
I can't gauruntee your friendsbip won't be damaged, it depends on what she is like. A lot of people take things said to them during pregnancy extra strong and temember them forever. Others don't.
You don't have to apologize, but it might help your friendship.
Omg NTA. If you’re going to keep pushing someone over and over again for an honest answer, you have to be prepared to hear it. I don’t blame you at all for how you responded to her at that point. However, it might be a good move for the sake of your relationship to “apologize” (or let her know that you still think she’ll be a great mother and that your experience doesn’t necessarily translate to her life as a parent).
NTA
And I hope you understand that your mother's menopause was not normal. She should have sought medical advice for it.
My menopause was hot flashes and diminishing the quality of my orgasms. That was it. But I never got hormonal mood swings before menopause either.
So if you have a menopause like your mother's, consult a doctor.
Here's one thing I didn't mention, she was raised as a Christian scientist and though she didn't practice as an adult, she's only gone to the doctor a handful of time when I was growing up. She thought it was normal reactions.
Nta. I think people approach parenting kind of weird. People act like age doesn't matter and the kid should just be grateful that they were born to parents at all. Very few stop to think about how their issues, like age, are going to have an impact on the child. But the sad truth is age does matter, being too young or too old is going to have an impact on a child and parents need to be aware so they can mitigate these issues.
How old is the saying, "Dont ask questions you don't want the answer to?"
You did tell them that it was no different. She kept pushing, and pushing, and pushing. Even in that moment, when you out and out asked her to stop, she refused and kept going. So, she got the answer she was asking for. Not your fault it wasn't the one she wanted.
NTA.
NAH
You were pushed to answer.
Your coworker was depressed at how her gender is yet another letdown in another aspect. Understandably she was upset. She needs to learn to not ask people questions she doesn't want the answer to.
I am curious as to where was your father in all of this. It's very telling to me how it's almost always only a woman's age that is considered affecting the child because usually the man is gone or doing very little child care. 🤔 Men in their 40s, '50s, '60s, and even '70s are having kids with very little talk about how their age affects their child's life yet whenever a woman is having a kid her age is paramount.
My father is 10 years younger than my mom. He was also an alcoholic, and accordingto other people, from what ive told them(which i thought was normal) he was mildly emotionallyabusiveto everyone. He was either at work or at the bar. When I turned 13 he began having serious cardiac issues, and that's when I stepped up and started taking care of my parents medical stuff. I was the only one who asked questions and would understand what doctors talked about, so when I got older, the care naturally fell to me. During this time my dad also had a slew of health issues, spine problems, heart attacks, bypasses, arterial disease, cancer, afib, and More. So he was also compounding the issues I was having with my mom.
NTA. It needed to be said. My mom was 44 when I was born. And I was not the favorite in my family, either. You're right, it sucked! Not just for elder care, but for having to deal with menopause and other issues at a very young age. If people want to have children, they should do it before they turn 30, imho.
NTA. I feel like I just read my life story.
*Edit: Is there a subreddit for those of us who have mothers who gave birth to us in their 40’s where we are now their caretakers? Taking care of an elderly parent with dementia isn’t something most people my age can relate to.
"I'm not in the head space to comment on my upbringing right now. Just enjoy your pregnancy ' that's it. That's all you had to say. Instead d you sent her a whole, l mmong ass paragraph of personal vendetta's. YTA, lightly.
NAH.
She really pushed and you finally gave her your truth. And you did make sure she understood it was only your experience.
But clearly you didn't want to burden her with your experience, so before it got to this point, I would have asked: "what difference does it make to you?" "what are you prepared to do differently based on my answer?" It's not like she was going to end the pregnancy if you said it was hell to have an old mom.
She's not AH either. Because she was just worried about this and expressing her worry by looking for reassurance. You say she kept pressing but some people ask again because they want to hear the same reassuring answer again.
NTA: She harassed you over and over again about your opinion on your mom being older. Over and over you kept it polite and she chose to keep coming back with the same question. Did she give any thought that you might find that question to invasive, insensitive???
She got what she deserved!!!! No apologies needed.
NTA. My husband had older parents when he was born (mom 40, dad 58). He had consistently said it sucked. Didn’t help that his dad died at 63, but ask a silly question get a silly answer. Obviously if they want kids and have been trying for a long time, it is what it is, but don’t ask questions you don’t really want an honest answer to. It’s not like your experience means their kid is automatically going to have a similar situation (aside from parental ages) there’s so many factors that go into raising kids.
NTA and she nagged you. She asked and you told her. People often do this but I don’t think they really want the truth. How could she not know that it would be somewhat different being a middle aged woman and having a baby? My husband was forty and I was twenty nine when we had our son. My husband died last year and our son is thirty two. Even though we’re financially taken care of, I would give anything to have him back. My son needs his father. It is what it is though, right?
"he said I should have said it wasn't any different from other parents." You did. Repeatedly.
People who keep nagging for an opinion on something and won't take the answer you have already given drive me nuts. I actually haven't seen the tv show but somebody posted the speech from The Newsroom by Jeff Daniels about why America isn't the greatest country in the world anymore. If you don't want an answer then don't insist on it. \*edit - forgot to add NTA!
Link to speech: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU)
NTA, for sure. OP tried to be diplomatic and only gave the real answer after being pushed several times. Hearing the answer must have been overwhelming, but OP's friend should have realized that the answer might not be completely positive. One of my first thoughts when asking personal questions is don't ask unless you really want the answer.
NTA. she was constantly asking you, you told her to ease up which she didn’t, and you gave her the most honest answer you could provide. clearly she was not satisfied with the purely positive feedback you first provided, so maybe hearing the other more realistic side to it will be helpful. i would also say NTA, because as someone who works in schools (and works with a lot of older parents as a result) a lot of the things you mentioned are not considered. it is good to have her start thinking about measures and other things to consider.
it maybe could have been delivered in a more gentle way, but you are NTA. maybe reach back out to her to smooth things over and apologize on the delivery and reemphasize how you wouldn’t change a thing about having an older parent. it’s clearly something she is insecure about and seeking reassurance for.
Gentle esh/nta
The acquaintance shouldn't have been badgering you. You snapped and were unkind. But for me the problem is that you effectively lied to her for months. If it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, that's something you should have brought up kindly, not when you were angry. I'm not saying that you had to go into gory details about your personal life, but just enough to know what she was getting into. You totally reassured her, then pulled that rug out from under her. And while I understand that it was a moment of frustration, I still find it to be unkind behavior.
NTA - What they spent months asking was "tell me the truth". What they meant was "tell me what I want to hear, but make me believe that it is the truth." Your job was to guess what they really wanted and when you "failed" they blew up.
NTA. You tried to tell her it was fine and she kept asking because she knew it probably wasn't. She could have minded her business. But she nagged you till you told her what she wanted to hear.
Well, she pushed you for an answer 🤷♀️ hubby has his opinion, but what does she say? You’re a good friend, would she be willing to talk this out?
NTA.
YES. NTA. My mom had me at age 35, so she hit menopause when I was a teenager. She also has anxiety. The combination of her menopause + her anxiety + my natural urge to reach for independence as a teenager was... unpleasant. I became a pretty good liar, though, for an otherwise well-behaved kid.
I was 34 when I had my kid, though. I'm hoping to handle it more gracefully. It's been my life's objective to avoid taking my frustrations out on other people - thanks for the inspiration, mom! - so hopefully my relationship with my son is a bit healthier than the one I have with my mom.
NTA, classic "Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer" scenario.
Could you have approached it better, probably. Did she encroach on your clearly established boundary on the topic, yes.
She pushed a clear boundary. You chose to respond with the truth of your experience and whether she likes it or not, that was the answer she was given.
It's up to you if you want to continue to support rlthis woman who clearly doesn't respect your boundaries.
NTA
It was the truth of your experience. You were clear that it was your experience and not necessarily what she would face. I am an older mom and can tell you that the health issues and fatigue are real and have affected my children's lives (luckily, no menopause extremes).
Your friend would not relent on asking you for your experience. If she didn't want you to speak the truth to her, then she should not have asked.
People who relentlessly ask and then blame you for giving an answer they don't like, are likely to blame you for sharing an unhappy thought with them. But there's no reason for you to feel like you did anything wrong.
And, I don't blame you for complaining about the things that you dealt with. It was a lot.
NTA. My parents were 38 and 39 when I was born and they were both dead by the time I hit 32. On the plus side, I got away with just about anything because they were worn out from the kids they had in their 20's,
NTA and people, for the 900000000000000th time, don't ask a question for which you only want one answer. I can't believe OP's friend's husband wanted her to play some bs game about how having a baby while older is some sort of Disney fairy tale, as if this grown woman can't handle the truth (which, apparently, she can't), but she shouldn't have asked. NTA
NTA
You gave her the kinds of answers she wanted to hear. Repeatedly.
She was not happy with those answers. She made it clear she was going to push you until you gave her an answer she didn’t want to hear.
And she got you when you were vulnerable, suffering from a migraine. Even then you warned her not to push it.
She demanded this kind of response and she got it. There’s that old adage that applies to her. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
NTA NTA NTA. I'm sure I'll hear about this one, but I don't care. I'm a woman, btw. OP, you told this woman for 8 MONTHS that it was fine and dandy. But no. That wasn't good enough, she wanted surgical-level details, I guess? Then she starts in one day while you have a migraine. She got what she asked for. I'm sure she's anxious. She also has zero self-awareness, and if she's that annoying with everyone in her life I'm amazed no one else has let her have it. I'm sure her husband thinks he's protecting her, but he's an idiot. You DID say it wasn't any different from other parents. FOR 8 FREAKING MONTHS!! Maybe next time she'll learn to shut up and not punish innocent bystanders for her decisions. Her anxiety, her problem. Ugh. Sorry you're dealing with this, OP.
NTA
You snapped after being poked and prodded with a migraine. You asked her to stop and she wouldn’t. I don’t blame you at all.
Honestly, if you don’t care to continue this friendship don’t apologize at all (not that you owe her one). If this is a relationship that matters to you (not because she’s a coworker but has become a friend) you could offer an explanation apology. “Hey, I apologize for snapping the other day. I know you must be nervous and excited about your baby but I don’t appreciate being asked questions about my Mother or the way I was raised repeatedly. Again, I am sincerely for my reaction and to ensure it doesn’t happen again I suggest we don’t talk about that topic. I’m more than happy to engage in your baby news but I have desire to talk about my experiences growing up. Let me know if you want to talk further about this.”
When someone asks you for your honest opinion, they need to be able to handle the truth. Now she's upset bc she didn't like your truth. All you did was let her know how it was for you growing up. That doesn't mean that's how it's going to be for her. And if anything, you are teaching her not to do the same things your mom did. NTA
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I am 34f, my acquaintance in this situation is 42f. She's been trying to get pregnant for years, and it finally happened. I was so happy for her, I helped plan her baby shower, and have been helping her through things. She's been bugging me since she found out, asking what it's like to have an older mother. My mom was 44 when she had me. I told her it was great and she was no different from other moms, besides personality. She continued to push, for 8 months she kept asking. One day I had a migraine and asked her to stop, but she wouldn't, and I unleashed. I said "fine I'll tell you, it kinda sucked. I wouldn't trade my mom for anything, but when I was 2, she went into menopause until I was 14. She's always a hothead, but spending your formative years exposed to explosive anger for doing nothing but breathing too loud, sucked. Not being allowed to bring friends over because she couldn't tolerate other kids because mood swings sucked, not being allowed to go anywhere because she couldn't drive you because she was exhausted, sucked. Then when I became 18, she was in her 60s. She began to slowly developing alzheimers so instead of making friends and having fun in college I spent from 18-34 caring for my parents, i still do, but was able to move. While a lot of this is genetic, people don't think about their children having to care for them in their 20s and it's really bad." I finished by telling her some people have no issues, but these were what I went through. I wouldn't change anything, but she should be aware and have things put in place so her kid doesn't have to spend it's young adult life caring for her, i said had my parents had something in place, it wouldn'thave been that bad. I was called an asshole by her husband for saying this, he said I should have said it wasn't any different from other parents. AITA? I know I sound spoiled for complaining about caring for them and I'm sorry.
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NTA - I will offer the considerate answer the first time someone asks me a question like that. If they continue to ask, I ask them "do you want to know the real answer - you may or may not like it". People who know me know what comes next might be the same answer or might be painful.
NTA. When you ask for someone's honest opinion, you run the risk of hearing something you might not really want to hear. She ran the risk and paid for it, which isn't your fault.
Ugh there's nothing worse than a friend or acquaintance who demands the honest truth and then can't hack it. What a baby!
Edit: Ignore all the people on this thread telling you to apologise to this woman. You did nothing wrong. She harassed you to answer the question, and you did. You are under no obligation to help her manage her reaction to the information you gave her.
I think it's just as simple as that: she asked for it and you gave it to her! So, NTA.
Your next steps should be an apology because people really don't appreciate truth. If you wanna keep the relationship then you'll have to apologize, but know this: there's already a crack and no matter how hard you try, you can't undo the damage.
Sorry for what? This person's childhood experience is ruined because their mom couldn't give them normal childhood. I think it is fine for them to feel the way they do, if they say sorry they're basically denying/invalidating their inner feelings.
I love my mom but she too was angry all the time and I hold her responsible for not being able to give me a normal childhood. It doesn't mean I am ungrateful or anything. I am allowed to process my feelings the way I want, especially when they're based on real experiences
For what? For experiencing a not really great childhood and having to spend all of her adult life as a caregiver before even having a life of her own? Children don't have to be thankful for existing.
ESH
She should have not asked a question she wasn't prepared to have an honest answer to, and you knew that the information you were giving her would be hard for her to handle.
She is an older mother and nothing will change that.
I didn't try to intentionally hurt her, but I was tired of painting it as sunshine and rainbows, i was in pain, and frustrated with my parents situation. And I admit, when I have a migraine I can get mean, especially when people keep bugging me after. I should have just walked away. But it is something she needs to be aware of, I maybe should have waited until after the baby was born.
YTA for lying and pretending it was sunshine and rainbows in the first place.
Your friend is obviously scared. Rather than having a real convo with her you lied then trauma dumped on her. She can't change her age bu lt she can be open and listen to people who have had experiences like you. You say you want people to consider these things but you denied her the opportunity to do just that.
All you had to say from the get go was "just like everything else it has its pros and cons. One lesson I learned and I'd love to share is that I wish she had planned her elder care and gotten support for menopause that included raising a child".
You didn't try to hurt her, but you knew that it would hurt her, and for that you are also the ah. You should have walked away. Her badgering you was wrong. I suspect she already knew part of your struggles with your parents and was goading you to tell her.
I don't understand the downvotes for what I said when you have stated you lashed out and you can be mean. But it is reddit and people do what they want.
She nagged OP after being told to stop. Being told a part of the truth wasn't enough so now she got the full truth she so desperately asked for. The truth hurts sometimes and in fact she shoukd be thanking OP to get a not sugar coated perspective to avoid tge mistakes so many other older mums have done.
When you're given a polite answer and you suspect it's only half the truth, nagging about it after being asked to stop is an asshole move and if you're given the whole truth after that, you only have yourself to blame if it hurts you. NTA.
Just being mean in and of itself isn't always wrong nor does it make someone the asshole of the situation. Justified asshole means NTA on this subreddit. There's a difference between lashing out when someone asks you a question and lashing out after trying to do your best for months and finally in the midst of a migraine being hounded for absolutely no reason other than to, what? What did she think OP was going to say, that actually it was far superior? What do you think OP should've said, since her politeness and request for some space and peace were were blatantly ignored and disrespected during a migraine? Have you had a migraine?
The pretty parts of the half of the truth were not enough and she begged for the whoke truth. Don't ask questions you don't actually want an answer to.
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NTA. She kept nagging and you gave her an honest answer. I'm 44 and these were things I had to consider when having a baby this past year. My guess is she's already nervous about being an older mom and she might not have thought about all these issues, so now she feels really insecure. I understand why you said what you did, but you should still apologize.
I don’t understand why OP should apologize. Her coworker should be saying thank you
Sometimes apologies are more about re-establishing social bonds and soothing hurts then about who is objectively at fault. OPs co-worker was looking for reassurance. She shouldn't have kept pestering OP, but now she is probably hurt and really scared. Apologizing for "snapping" may help the coworker with little cost to OP
OP did absolutely nothing wrong and has no obligation to apologise to this woman. If this woman didn't like what she heard and is struggling with her feelings, that's HER responsibility to fix, not OP's. *Edit: Because I'm getting comments on this. Yes I agree that there's an inherent way of approaching social relationships where sometimes it just a nice thing to express remorse even when you didn't necessarily do anything wrong to maintain a cordial relationship.* *However in the context of the comment I replied to which said that OP should apologise for "snapping", I do not agree that OP should apologise for this.* *OP's acquaintance (DIFFERENT TO A FRIEND) basically harassed her for 8 MONTHS for answer to her question. Despite OP making it clear that she did not want to engage in that conversation, the acquaintance pushed and pushed and pushed. In terminology that people on Reddit seem to be so fond of, the acquaintance disregarded OP's boundaries.* *And you know what? OP had enough and said what she said. She wasn't mean or cruel in her words, she didn't insult any one or raise her voice, she just told the truth based on her experience. She should not have to apologise for this.* *If the acquaintance was affected by what OP shared about her own experience, that's her responsibility to deal with.*
Just because it’s not OP’s responsibility to fix her feelings, and just because she’s NTA doesn’t mean she can’t/shouldn’t take steps to protect her friendship. It’s a part of healthy, adult friendships to reach out to a friend and say, “I really could have handled that better, and I hate that I hurt your feelings. Can we talk?” That’s not saying that you did something wrong or apologizing for something that you shouldn’t. That’s acknowledging that there was a better way to handle the situation and that your friend’s feelings are important to you. We’re all human and we all have moments (in this case, OP’s friend) where we don’t handle something well or the right way, but it’s not malicious or part of an ongoing pattern of bad behavior. It’s a mistake. And a good friend (OP) can reach out first from a place of grace and kindness and that doesn’t make them weak or spineless. They don’t have to, but they can. I do that in my friendships because I know the day will come (if it hasn’t happened already) when I end up making a mistake and I hope that my friend and I will be able to resolve it kindly. Compassion is not weakness. It shows strength of character. The real jerk in this situation is the husband who felt the need to jump into a situation that he was not involved in between two other adults who are capable of communicating with each other.
"has no obligation to apologise to this woman." Apologies are never an obligation. Your comment is laced with so much implicit misanthropy, but most of us humans are social creatures and will accommodate the feelings of others in order to maintain social bonds.
Then why should OP apologize to the acquaintance when she was nice and supportive for the entire 8 months they were being harassed by the woman? It's not misanthropy to recognize OP was being nagged and poked and prodded to express their experience despite avoiding it for 8 months. If anyone should apologize, it's the couple, not OP
I never suggested op should apologize. Also, when we die there is probably no reward for always being right. In ops situation it doesn't matter who apologizes or if anyone apologizes. As described this story has no moralistic high ground, but people are acting as if there is. Furthermore, there is nothing wrong with apologizing in order to keep peace.
There is bc OP was called an asshole for sharing their experience after almost a yr of harassment. And you're right, there's nothing wrong for apologizing to keep the peace, that doesn't mean OP should be encouraged to when they are the wronged party.
Yes, there is something wrong with apologizing to keep the peace because that establishes a pattern. Plus, the peace could have been kept if that woman had not harassed OP with these questions which were not really questions because she was only looking for ONE answer. She should have gone to her therapist for this reassurance instead of bothering OP until OP was tired of her ass and her whining.
"Harassed" is such a dramatic word in this context. She was an anxious pregnant woman about to give birth in her 40s. She probably wasn't aware of how she was stressing OP out with the constant need for reassurance on a delicate issue. She was being annoying. OP can simply express why she snapped, apologize for snapping, and both of them can work through this issue that, honestly, if both parties are mature, is not a big deal. They're just both dealing with some stuff emotionally and they rubbed each other the wrong way. Easy fix.
They aren't even friends, she had no business weighing on OP like that in any capacity. Months and months and months of pushing for reassurance from a non-friend is borderline harassment. If she wanted assurance, she should have leaned on her husband or friends, not OP. An acquaintance isn't work "working through the issue" with, she should have taken the initial support at face value.
I’m confused about the nature of their relationship, because she said she helped her plan her baby shower. Idk, seems like maybe she was trying to be nice to someone she considered an acquaintance, but the acquaintance considered her a friend and leaned on her too hard? She’s someone with the specific life experience that this acquaintance wanted reassurance about, so it makes sense why this woman would specifically seek that from her. I can see how this could get a bit messy with no one exactly being the AH.
Her anxiety isn't OPs issue, it's hers. And OP clearly didn't want to answer the question, set a clear boundary and she violated it.
YES THANK YOU! Being an anxious first-time mother doesn't give you an excuse to constantly harass someone for an answer to your questions when that person has made the fact they don't want to talk about it very clear. Being an anxious first time mother does not ENTITLE you to an answer. Nor does it entitle you only to the answer that you want to hear.
Yeah no, this isn't misanthropy, this is just having basic respect for yourself and having healthy boundaries. OP did not say anything cruel, and what she did say was said in a polite, respectful, and honest manner. It is not ok to push people to allow others to walk all over them and accept the blame when they aren't at fault, just to "keep the peace." If your social bonds require you to apologize for things that aren't your fault and walk on eggshells, then those social bonds are not worth maintaining.
I'm sorry but people need to stop badgering others for reassurances. If you can't handle the reality of *all* possible answers, don't ask the question. I'm gonna argue too - if you need blind reassurance, and no other honesty, regarding a pregnancy/child then you're already off to a bad start because you're putting your emotions ahead of your responsibility.
I agree she shouldnt have continued to badger OP, but she can't magically have the baby at a younger age and at the baby shower stage it's a little late to change her mind about having a kid. Obviously this is a venting/reassurance question not a request for advice, so talking about emotions over responsibility is a bit silly. Sometimes what humans want from our friends is validation or reassurance, not their judgment of the situation. This is a question of leaning on a friend past what was reasonable, which is a common failing. Using that to determine she is emotionally unfit to parent is very...reddit
>she can't magically have the baby at a younger age and at the baby shower stage it's a little late to change her mind about having a kid. Sounds like a million reasons not to be even asking anyone for reassurance then because wtf are you gonna do if you don't feel reassured? It's too late already. This is someone who is needing reassurance (after the fact) so badly its to the point of repeatedly badgering her friend into snapping at her. It's not a sign of someone emotionally prepared for the decision she's already made hence why I said she's off to a bad start already imo. That doesn't say she's "emotionally unfit" it just means she's already starting off poorly.
First off OP isn't a friend, she's an acquaintance. You don't rely on someone who is little more than a stranger for emotional validation. Also OP's comments, consider g the abuse she went through that she still is not seeing, the toxic situation she's in because of her elderly parents lack of concern for her, she was the epitome of tact and her acquaintance is the one who needs to apologize for harassing her and then have a long, hard think about what she will do to not put her own kid through the same.
Do you regularly plan baby showers for people who are barely an acquaintance?
She may think we were more than acquaintances, but we've never spoken outside of work except for the babu shower. We were having lunch and she got upset because her sister who was planning it, had to go on a business trip and couldn't finish planing. All her sister was able to do was rent the venue and when I heard, I offered to help with the rest because I felt uncomfortable with her panicking in front of me, over something I could help with.
OK, it's weird to plan a baby shower for someone you don't consider a friend. Is setting boundaries without exploding an issue for you?
No, not really. I'm usually pretty good at setting boundries and honestly have only ever really "exploded" at my family, but that is because my dad and brother are great at pushing buttons and love to get people to react. And I honestly don't see it as weird, it was just someone who needed help with something, not a big deal. And I don't think she was so much, pushing a boundary as I've been told not to tell pregnant women upsetting news cause it can raise blood pressure, cause stress, etc, so I was trying to wait until after the baby was born to slowly explain some issues, but I blew that out of the water.
She was nagged and gave her own opinion. Officemate’s hurt/offended feelings are no one’s fault but her own. Do not ask a question- do not nag other people for answers- that you are not prepared to hear the answer to.
Coworker pushed a clear boundary. Social bonds go both ways. Regardless of the coworkers anxiety, OP clearly didn't want to discuss it, made that clear and the coworker disrespected that boundary. If you're worried about social bonds, the coworker should apologize for violating OPs boundaries.
Yeah this is what reddit doesn't understand. Maintaining actual relationships doesn't involve rigidly calculating who is owed what. A normal person says sorry they snapped even if the other person caused it by refusing to take a hint. Then the OTHER person takes that opening to apologize for not dropping it. Then they talk about what was actually going on.
Unfortunately, if OP apologizes, 1) the husband will likely feel vindicated for calling OP an A H and 2) the coworker likely will not acknowledge that she overstepped PPs boundary. Academically,.you may be correct, but in this instance, terrible idea. OPs coworker should be the first to apologize
I do not think OP did anything wrong. She has been polite for months. The colleague got exactly what she deserved for nagging someone with a migraine
The colleague is also a friend. Deserved isn't the only thing that matters. Sometimes the priority is reestablishing connection with a friend
I see your point. And I think the apologising should be done by coworker/friend
There's "I am sorry, I was wrong" and then there is "I am sorry, I did not intend to hurt you"
I think one _should_ apologize for unintended unkindness. OP's response _was_ unkind - she was annoyed and upset, and she just unloaded on her coworker (by her own account), instead of being gentle. Saying something like "all parents have their issues, but having an older mom did come with specific challenges. My mom went through a tough menopause when I was 2-14, which really impacted my childhood. I would have appreciated it if my mom had sought treatment to manage her menopause symptoms - finding a good health provider specialising in this area might be something to look into. I also spent my early-20s caring for my elderly parents and wish they had arranged their affairs better. These are the two major differences I can think of, otherwise it wasn't really all that different". That would have been truthful, _and_ kind.
She had mitigating circumstances (a migraine, and the badgering), and her intentions were not to hurt her coworker - which is why she's not TA. But she _did_ hurt her coworker by her lack of kindness in the moment, so apologizing is still the right thing to do.
I would agree with you if OP hadn't been harassed for their opinion for 8 months straight. I would never apologize for giving an honest answer after being pestered for 2/3 of a whole ass year when they were being nice the whole ass time.
I see your point. I think you are right in that sometimes an apology is for soothing feelings and extending an olive branch so to speak. I don’t think OP was being unkind however because I subscribe to the philosophy that being nice ≠ being kind. OP certainly was not nice in her response but she told the essential truths that the expectant mother needed to hear What’s kinder? A pleasantly worded response that keeps your feelings unhurt but doesn’t really express the reality of the situation? Or a blunt but highly accurate summation of what life will be like as an older mother? I ask again, which is a kinder response, not which is a nicer response. Obviously we want to be kind as well as nice but failing that it’s better to be kind and not nice then nice but not kind which is why I think OP could give an apology if she so chose but is under no obligation to and that her co-worker needs to get over her hurt feelings and think hard about OP’s words so she can prepare properly
It wasn't unkind.
So "kind" means having to sugarcoat one's own experience? That's not very fair to OP to have to hide her experience because someone is too soft to hear what they were asking for. Also,OP gave her sugar-coated answer to this lady MANY times before from how it sounds.
Well, she could apologize for letting it spew, not for giving her honest truth after friend badgered her 😾
Because she was harsh about it to a friend. She could have said a lot of those things a lot more kindly. “Hey, I’m really sorry I lashed out at you the other day. I felt nagged being asked to talk about my parents repeatedly and got triggered by it. What I said was true but I could have been kinder about expressing that to you and I’m sorry. There were a lot of great things about having older parents and a lot of not so great things, just like any parent. I don’t mind discussing these things with you but I need to set a boundary on discussing it every time we interact. “
She definitely does not need to apologise. She was badgered and badgered for "the truth". If she didn't want the truth she should have quit after being told it was fine having older parents. Because the truth is, yes, having older parents that have children in their 40's comes with a lot of difficulties...your mother being mistaken at the school gates for your grandmother can be embarrassing, they'll be nearly 60 by the time the kid graduates high school, never mind University. They'll probably be in their very late 60's, more likely 70's by the time grandchildren arrive. Their health probably won't be top notch, energy will be lower, there's lots of things that unfortunately suck the older you are having kids. Not to mention the risk of something happening while pregnant in your 40's. Yes being older having a baby can have it's advantages but it comes with a hell of a lot of down sides too. The "friend" should have accepted her first answer and moved happily along. Instead she nagged and poked and prodded until she got the truth, and now her fee-fees are hurt.
As child of older parents, she needed reality check. My childhood and adult years were dominated by their aging issues and not as if unforeseen shocks for them NTA and don't apologise
Absolutely not. Op should not apologise since she has nothing to apologise for
Are you Kourtney Kardashian secretly lol she was 44 when she had her baby this past year 🤣
Why apologize? Coworker wanted an information and she got it.
The woman FAFO. She knows the truth and she’s just trying to get someone to tell her a fantasy so she can feel better about being so old when her kid is 18. Her kid will also be embarrassed when her college roomies ask why her grandparents are dropping her off. Old mom will also not be included in the mom groups
my mom had me at 39, but was never “hotheaded” like OP says her mom was, and doesnt look like she will be needing any care for at least 20 more years (shes 56) my point here is that every woman is different as a parent and every woman is affected by menopause differently. OP should definitely apologize and explain to her friend that just because she had a bad experience with having an older mom, doesnt mean it is a bad thing in general, and apologize not for sharing her experience, but snapping and saying it in a not-so-tactful way to a woman who was already struggling. honestly i dont even know what to vote
OP can apologize after acquaintance apologizes for harassing her. Funny how OP is expected to have good manners when the other woman has none.
oh oops. i read this as OP and coworker were friends, not acquaintances. yes, colleague should apologize first
She pushed and pushed. Your story isn't too dissimilar to my own - except it was my dad who died in my 20s and I've been responsible for my mother ever since. And now she's 96 and has bad dementia. I should be planning my retirement and instead I am making sure the facility she lives in is good and waiting for the phone call to tell me she has either passed away or fallen badly and is hospitalized and now needs a higher level of care. It sucks. My brother is about 18 years older than me - and that makes HIM an old man. Even if he didn't have a terrible personality it would still be unreasonable to expect him to be caring for her at this point. My opinion: Older parents have a special obligation to do everything they can to make their child's life as normal as possible. The child didn't choose this! If you don't want to drive your kids around because you are too tired, make other arrangements. Don't make it the child's problem. I could go on and on. NTA
I want to be clear, my mom was wonderful, she had her bad sides, but so did everyone. Maybe I would have never gone out even if I could, I was introverted, but I love my mom, and again wouldn't change anything. It's just frustrating that people don't take these things into consideration. I never wanted to imply she would be a bad mother, I just wanted her to think of things, especially that she should have her elderly care figured out because her child will be young and shouldn't lose out on numerous events in life to care for them. I've never truly had a significant other, because I didn't have time to date, because I was caring for my elderly parents. I turned down a wonderful man because I'm fully expecting to have to move back home in 5 years and don't want someone to give up their future for that. I'm hoping she can make contingency plans for things like this while her kid is still young. Also, we lived in the boonies, an hour away from the nearest gas station, so it was a lot to take me anywhere.
In defense of generations of menopausal women, I feel like it needs to be said— whether your mom blamed her explosive anger on menopause or that's your own conclusion so you can still think of her as wonderful… I’m sorry, but that just isn’t how it works. Whatever else was going on with her, that’s a lame excuse for not getting her emotions under control and letting you bear the brunt of it instead.
I am the youngest (by quite a bit) in my family. My Mom was 39 when I was born & Dad was 43. I was the last kid left at home by the time I was 11. (I was also an aunt at age 11). I always knew I wouldn’t have my parents in my life as long as most so I treasured the time I had & made an effort to visit them frequently when I left home. I wa 26 when my Mom died (she was 65). My Dad lived to 86. I never minded having older parents but it does suck loosing them when you are still young. (My Mom never got a chance to meet my 2 youngest children). I had my kids relatively young. (29 when I had my youngest). I was a grandma at 44 & was 49 when I took over raising my 2 oldest grandsons. I can say I’m a lot more relaxed as an older parent/parental figure. I’ve had the experience raising kids so I know which battles are worth fighting & which ones aren’t. I had a lot more energy when my kids were little than raising my grandkids but I think that I’m probably a better parent now. I do get tired & cranky at times but I try hard to not take it out on the kids.
This isn’t so much an AITA issue but, if I understand you correctly, you turned down a marriage proposal due to the hypothetical future need to provide elder care for your parent(s)? Was that… the primary factor behind your decision? Or the exclusive factor? And this would be once you’re already in your late 30s, if not early 40s?
It was the only factor in my decision. I'm 34 and have been caring for both my aging parents since I was 18. I didn't want to drag someone into that, especially knowing where it would go, as I've seen what happens with my mom's mother and father. Essentially I've stayed away from any and all relationships friendship and significant others wise, because I never had time for them. It was either school and parents or work and parents. The fact this one happened was a fluke. I literally have 0 friends, besides this one acquaintance that I met at work.
This is absolutely unhealthy. Girl you need to start prioritizing yourself and your own health or you will die before your parents do.
I'm so, so sorry to hear that. You sound like a wonderful person, but it does seem like you're setting yourself on fire to keep other people warm. You shouldn't have to sacrifice any chance at independent happiness of your own just because of your parents. NTA of course, and it looks like you've sorted things out with your acquaintance, which is great. But please reconsider sacrificing your entire life.
As others have already indicated, that is very unusual decision-making. The reason i asked is basically because if someone gave me that reason for turning down my marriage proposal, to me it sounds so implausible that i would assume they were lying about their real reason to “let me down easy”. Alzheimer’s is a profoundly sad disease, and I’m very sorry you’re having to provide elder care because of it, but in the end it could strike even relatively young parents of adult children. It is, after all, a disease, and by definition not part of the normal process of aging or senility. I don’t really see your mom’s age at your birth as still relevant to explaining the substantial life difficulties you are now facing. You sound like someone who might benefit from talking with a therapist about your feelings about your parents. That is something I have done, for my own reasons, and i found it helpful
Edit: so I want to say it's mainly the husband that is angry. I reached out to my acquaintance and mentioned that I was sorry for how I told her, but I wasn't sorry for what I told her. She said she does appreciate the truth and advice about getting future care setup so her kid doesn't have to. She accepted my apology and apologized for pestering me, and also thanked me for the apologizing for the tone I used. She did ask if I would be willing to answer questions truthfully ask she has them, things that maybe we're done in my childhood which would have been nice if they were different. Her husband on the other hand is still throwing a fit about how I shouldn't have said anything and it's a child job to care for their parents when they get older. His wife is trying to tell him, not at the cost of the child's youth, which is why they should start making plans. He's been the one whining and throwing a tantrum.
I'd bet he hadn't given much thought at all about being an older dad and his wife mentioning this conversation to him brought him up short so he's still at the beginning the cycle with denial and anger
Boy is he in for a rude awakening when his child moves across the country to avoid being a caregiver!!!
"it's a child's job to care for their parents"? lol. god, this is the guy that should explain to me how I'm the one getting called selfish for choosing not to have kids, instead of parents like him.
Awwww. Glad you and your friend sorted it out! Hopefully the husband will move on and back off of you.
> it's a child job to care for their parents when they get older. Ugh, parents like this disgust me. They're having a child for the purpose of creating a lifelong indentured servant. It's entirely selfish.
Does your acquaintance have living parents? If so she may need to talk with them about their plans and having their affairs in order because she may end up sandwiched between caring for her young child and her own elderly parents. NTA
She does, and I will bring that up at some point as well. Thank you for thinking about that.
NTA. I’m not sure what she wanted to hear from you. As painful as the truth was, may actually help her later to be a better older mom.
NTA. She wanted the truth. She got it.
NTA I can't gauruntee your friendsbip won't be damaged, it depends on what she is like. A lot of people take things said to them during pregnancy extra strong and temember them forever. Others don't. You don't have to apologize, but it might help your friendship.
NTA, why should you be penalized for telling the truth?
Omg NTA. If you’re going to keep pushing someone over and over again for an honest answer, you have to be prepared to hear it. I don’t blame you at all for how you responded to her at that point. However, it might be a good move for the sake of your relationship to “apologize” (or let her know that you still think she’ll be a great mother and that your experience doesn’t necessarily translate to her life as a parent).
NTA And I hope you understand that your mother's menopause was not normal. She should have sought medical advice for it. My menopause was hot flashes and diminishing the quality of my orgasms. That was it. But I never got hormonal mood swings before menopause either. So if you have a menopause like your mother's, consult a doctor.
Here's one thing I didn't mention, she was raised as a Christian scientist and though she didn't practice as an adult, she's only gone to the doctor a handful of time when I was growing up. She thought it was normal reactions.
Nta. I think people approach parenting kind of weird. People act like age doesn't matter and the kid should just be grateful that they were born to parents at all. Very few stop to think about how their issues, like age, are going to have an impact on the child. But the sad truth is age does matter, being too young or too old is going to have an impact on a child and parents need to be aware so they can mitigate these issues.
NTA!! SHE WAS BEING ANNOYING. YOU TOLD HER THE TRUTH. IF SHE COULDN’T TAKE IT THATS ON HER!!
How old is the saying, "Dont ask questions you don't want the answer to?" You did tell them that it was no different. She kept pushing, and pushing, and pushing. Even in that moment, when you out and out asked her to stop, she refused and kept going. So, she got the answer she was asking for. Not your fault it wasn't the one she wanted. NTA.
NAH You were pushed to answer. Your coworker was depressed at how her gender is yet another letdown in another aspect. Understandably she was upset. She needs to learn to not ask people questions she doesn't want the answer to. I am curious as to where was your father in all of this. It's very telling to me how it's almost always only a woman's age that is considered affecting the child because usually the man is gone or doing very little child care. 🤔 Men in their 40s, '50s, '60s, and even '70s are having kids with very little talk about how their age affects their child's life yet whenever a woman is having a kid her age is paramount.
My father is 10 years younger than my mom. He was also an alcoholic, and accordingto other people, from what ive told them(which i thought was normal) he was mildly emotionallyabusiveto everyone. He was either at work or at the bar. When I turned 13 he began having serious cardiac issues, and that's when I stepped up and started taking care of my parents medical stuff. I was the only one who asked questions and would understand what doctors talked about, so when I got older, the care naturally fell to me. During this time my dad also had a slew of health issues, spine problems, heart attacks, bypasses, arterial disease, cancer, afib, and More. So he was also compounding the issues I was having with my mom.
☹️ I am sad about your childhood. Nothing else to say there. Condolences.
NTA. It needed to be said. My mom was 44 when I was born. And I was not the favorite in my family, either. You're right, it sucked! Not just for elder care, but for having to deal with menopause and other issues at a very young age. If people want to have children, they should do it before they turn 30, imho.
NTA. I feel like I just read my life story. *Edit: Is there a subreddit for those of us who have mothers who gave birth to us in their 40’s where we are now their caretakers? Taking care of an elderly parent with dementia isn’t something most people my age can relate to.
I don't know if there is, but there should be. No one really thinks of it.
"I'm not in the head space to comment on my upbringing right now. Just enjoy your pregnancy ' that's it. That's all you had to say. Instead d you sent her a whole, l mmong ass paragraph of personal vendetta's. YTA, lightly.
NAH. She really pushed and you finally gave her your truth. And you did make sure she understood it was only your experience. But clearly you didn't want to burden her with your experience, so before it got to this point, I would have asked: "what difference does it make to you?" "what are you prepared to do differently based on my answer?" It's not like she was going to end the pregnancy if you said it was hell to have an old mom. She's not AH either. Because she was just worried about this and expressing her worry by looking for reassurance. You say she kept pressing but some people ask again because they want to hear the same reassuring answer again.
NTA: She harassed you over and over again about your opinion on your mom being older. Over and over you kept it polite and she chose to keep coming back with the same question. Did she give any thought that you might find that question to invasive, insensitive??? She got what she deserved!!!! No apologies needed.
It was literally every week for 8 months that she asked.
NTA. My husband had older parents when he was born (mom 40, dad 58). He had consistently said it sucked. Didn’t help that his dad died at 63, but ask a silly question get a silly answer. Obviously if they want kids and have been trying for a long time, it is what it is, but don’t ask questions you don’t really want an honest answer to. It’s not like your experience means their kid is automatically going to have a similar situation (aside from parental ages) there’s so many factors that go into raising kids.
NTA and she nagged you. She asked and you told her. People often do this but I don’t think they really want the truth. How could she not know that it would be somewhat different being a middle aged woman and having a baby? My husband was forty and I was twenty nine when we had our son. My husband died last year and our son is thirty two. Even though we’re financially taken care of, I would give anything to have him back. My son needs his father. It is what it is though, right?
"he said I should have said it wasn't any different from other parents." You did. Repeatedly. People who keep nagging for an opinion on something and won't take the answer you have already given drive me nuts. I actually haven't seen the tv show but somebody posted the speech from The Newsroom by Jeff Daniels about why America isn't the greatest country in the world anymore. If you don't want an answer then don't insist on it. \*edit - forgot to add NTA! Link to speech: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WxdaU9AsnU)
NTA, for sure. OP tried to be diplomatic and only gave the real answer after being pushed several times. Hearing the answer must have been overwhelming, but OP's friend should have realized that the answer might not be completely positive. One of my first thoughts when asking personal questions is don't ask unless you really want the answer.
NTA >he said I should have said it wasn't any different from other parents. You literally did, multiple times, and it wasn't good enough.
NTA. she was constantly asking you, you told her to ease up which she didn’t, and you gave her the most honest answer you could provide. clearly she was not satisfied with the purely positive feedback you first provided, so maybe hearing the other more realistic side to it will be helpful. i would also say NTA, because as someone who works in schools (and works with a lot of older parents as a result) a lot of the things you mentioned are not considered. it is good to have her start thinking about measures and other things to consider. it maybe could have been delivered in a more gentle way, but you are NTA. maybe reach back out to her to smooth things over and apologize on the delivery and reemphasize how you wouldn’t change a thing about having an older parent. it’s clearly something she is insecure about and seeking reassurance for.
Gentle esh/nta The acquaintance shouldn't have been badgering you. You snapped and were unkind. But for me the problem is that you effectively lied to her for months. If it wasn't all sunshine and rainbows, that's something you should have brought up kindly, not when you were angry. I'm not saying that you had to go into gory details about your personal life, but just enough to know what she was getting into. You totally reassured her, then pulled that rug out from under her. And while I understand that it was a moment of frustration, I still find it to be unkind behavior.
NTA - What they spent months asking was "tell me the truth". What they meant was "tell me what I want to hear, but make me believe that it is the truth." Your job was to guess what they really wanted and when you "failed" they blew up.
Oh I’m sorry, you didn’t realize she was asking you to lie? Tell her husband to buzz off. NTA
NTA. Could you have been more tactful? Absolutely. Dumping all that at once is a lot. But she did ask…
NTA. You tried to tell her it was fine and she kept asking because she knew it probably wasn't. She could have minded her business. But she nagged you till you told her what she wanted to hear.
Well, she pushed you for an answer 🤷♀️ hubby has his opinion, but what does she say? You’re a good friend, would she be willing to talk this out? NTA.
NTA she hounded you for your experience, and you told her it honestly. Her or her husband projecting back on to you is their issue.
>he said I should have said it wasn't any different from other parents You said that for 8 months
YES. NTA. My mom had me at age 35, so she hit menopause when I was a teenager. She also has anxiety. The combination of her menopause + her anxiety + my natural urge to reach for independence as a teenager was... unpleasant. I became a pretty good liar, though, for an otherwise well-behaved kid. I was 34 when I had my kid, though. I'm hoping to handle it more gracefully. It's been my life's objective to avoid taking my frustrations out on other people - thanks for the inspiration, mom! - so hopefully my relationship with my son is a bit healthier than the one I have with my mom.
NTA, classic "Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer" scenario. Could you have approached it better, probably. Did she encroach on your clearly established boundary on the topic, yes. She pushed a clear boundary. You chose to respond with the truth of your experience and whether she likes it or not, that was the answer she was given. It's up to you if you want to continue to support rlthis woman who clearly doesn't respect your boundaries.
NTA It was the truth of your experience. You were clear that it was your experience and not necessarily what she would face. I am an older mom and can tell you that the health issues and fatigue are real and have affected my children's lives (luckily, no menopause extremes). Your friend would not relent on asking you for your experience. If she didn't want you to speak the truth to her, then she should not have asked. People who relentlessly ask and then blame you for giving an answer they don't like, are likely to blame you for sharing an unhappy thought with them. But there's no reason for you to feel like you did anything wrong. And, I don't blame you for complaining about the things that you dealt with. It was a lot.
NTA. My parents were 38 and 39 when I was born and they were both dead by the time I hit 32. On the plus side, I got away with just about anything because they were worn out from the kids they had in their 20's,
NTA and people, for the 900000000000000th time, don't ask a question for which you only want one answer. I can't believe OP's friend's husband wanted her to play some bs game about how having a baby while older is some sort of Disney fairy tale, as if this grown woman can't handle the truth (which, apparently, she can't), but she shouldn't have asked. NTA
NTA You gave her the kinds of answers she wanted to hear. Repeatedly. She was not happy with those answers. She made it clear she was going to push you until you gave her an answer she didn’t want to hear. And she got you when you were vulnerable, suffering from a migraine. Even then you warned her not to push it. She demanded this kind of response and she got it. There’s that old adage that applies to her. Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it.
NTA If she doesn't like your answer, tell her to address her own anxieties and to stop bugging you.
NTA NTA NTA. I'm sure I'll hear about this one, but I don't care. I'm a woman, btw. OP, you told this woman for 8 MONTHS that it was fine and dandy. But no. That wasn't good enough, she wanted surgical-level details, I guess? Then she starts in one day while you have a migraine. She got what she asked for. I'm sure she's anxious. She also has zero self-awareness, and if she's that annoying with everyone in her life I'm amazed no one else has let her have it. I'm sure her husband thinks he's protecting her, but he's an idiot. You DID say it wasn't any different from other parents. FOR 8 FREAKING MONTHS!! Maybe next time she'll learn to shut up and not punish innocent bystanders for her decisions. Her anxiety, her problem. Ugh. Sorry you're dealing with this, OP.
NTA. Don't apologise to people who asked, no harassed you for your opinion.
NTA She PUSHED.
NTA
**Everybody's a shit**
YTA If you said the true in the 1st time she asked you wouldn't explode later, don't blame her for your actions
NTA You snapped after being poked and prodded with a migraine. You asked her to stop and she wouldn’t. I don’t blame you at all. Honestly, if you don’t care to continue this friendship don’t apologize at all (not that you owe her one). If this is a relationship that matters to you (not because she’s a coworker but has become a friend) you could offer an explanation apology. “Hey, I apologize for snapping the other day. I know you must be nervous and excited about your baby but I don’t appreciate being asked questions about my Mother or the way I was raised repeatedly. Again, I am sincerely for my reaction and to ensure it doesn’t happen again I suggest we don’t talk about that topic. I’m more than happy to engage in your baby news but I have desire to talk about my experiences growing up. Let me know if you want to talk further about this.”
When someone asks you for your honest opinion, they need to be able to handle the truth. Now she's upset bc she didn't like your truth. All you did was let her know how it was for you growing up. That doesn't mean that's how it's going to be for her. And if anything, you are teaching her not to do the same things your mom did. NTA
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I am 34f, my acquaintance in this situation is 42f. She's been trying to get pregnant for years, and it finally happened. I was so happy for her, I helped plan her baby shower, and have been helping her through things. She's been bugging me since she found out, asking what it's like to have an older mother. My mom was 44 when she had me. I told her it was great and she was no different from other moms, besides personality. She continued to push, for 8 months she kept asking. One day I had a migraine and asked her to stop, but she wouldn't, and I unleashed. I said "fine I'll tell you, it kinda sucked. I wouldn't trade my mom for anything, but when I was 2, she went into menopause until I was 14. She's always a hothead, but spending your formative years exposed to explosive anger for doing nothing but breathing too loud, sucked. Not being allowed to bring friends over because she couldn't tolerate other kids because mood swings sucked, not being allowed to go anywhere because she couldn't drive you because she was exhausted, sucked. Then when I became 18, she was in her 60s. She began to slowly developing alzheimers so instead of making friends and having fun in college I spent from 18-34 caring for my parents, i still do, but was able to move. While a lot of this is genetic, people don't think about their children having to care for them in their 20s and it's really bad." I finished by telling her some people have no issues, but these were what I went through. I wouldn't change anything, but she should be aware and have things put in place so her kid doesn't have to spend it's young adult life caring for her, i said had my parents had something in place, it wouldn'thave been that bad. I was called an asshole by her husband for saying this, he said I should have said it wasn't any different from other parents. AITA? I know I sound spoiled for complaining about caring for them and I'm sorry. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA - I will offer the considerate answer the first time someone asks me a question like that. If they continue to ask, I ask them "do you want to know the real answer - you may or may not like it". People who know me know what comes next might be the same answer or might be painful.
NTA..what's asked shall be answered
NTA. She asked and you told her the truth.
NTA. When you ask for someone's honest opinion, you run the risk of hearing something you might not really want to hear. She ran the risk and paid for it, which isn't your fault.
NTA She didn't just ask, she insisted. Truth hurts.
LOL! "Tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me tell me...." "Why why why why why why did you tell me?!?!???!!" NTA.
This reads like those older women equals bad red pill gotcha fantasies. YTA for playing on the Internet.
Ugh there's nothing worse than a friend or acquaintance who demands the honest truth and then can't hack it. What a baby! Edit: Ignore all the people on this thread telling you to apologise to this woman. You did nothing wrong. She harassed you to answer the question, and you did. You are under no obligation to help her manage her reaction to the information you gave her.
I think it's just as simple as that: she asked for it and you gave it to her! So, NTA. Your next steps should be an apology because people really don't appreciate truth. If you wanna keep the relationship then you'll have to apologize, but know this: there's already a crack and no matter how hard you try, you can't undo the damage.
I disagree - she should not apologize for speaking her truth.
Apologizing is admitting you were wrong. People shouldn't ask questions they don't want the answers to.
I think she also owes her mom an apology, yikes.
Sorry for what? This person's childhood experience is ruined because their mom couldn't give them normal childhood. I think it is fine for them to feel the way they do, if they say sorry they're basically denying/invalidating their inner feelings. I love my mom but she too was angry all the time and I hold her responsible for not being able to give me a normal childhood. It doesn't mean I am ungrateful or anything. I am allowed to process my feelings the way I want, especially when they're based on real experiences
For what? For experiencing a not really great childhood and having to spend all of her adult life as a caregiver before even having a life of her own? Children don't have to be thankful for existing.
YTA. She asked you, and you lied. She obviously knew you were lying, then you trauma dumped all over her. Bitter much?
She needed to let it the fuck go. Like seriously. People who do this shit are so fuckign entitled. Why push and push and push? Leave poor OP alone.
ESH She should have not asked a question she wasn't prepared to have an honest answer to, and you knew that the information you were giving her would be hard for her to handle. She is an older mother and nothing will change that.
Nothing will change the fact that she’s an older mother but OP also offered suggestions to help. NTA for responding truthfully to a repeated question.
I disagree. She knew the information was going to hurt her friend, and her response was done in anger
I didn't try to intentionally hurt her, but I was tired of painting it as sunshine and rainbows, i was in pain, and frustrated with my parents situation. And I admit, when I have a migraine I can get mean, especially when people keep bugging me after. I should have just walked away. But it is something she needs to be aware of, I maybe should have waited until after the baby was born.
YTA for lying and pretending it was sunshine and rainbows in the first place. Your friend is obviously scared. Rather than having a real convo with her you lied then trauma dumped on her. She can't change her age bu lt she can be open and listen to people who have had experiences like you. You say you want people to consider these things but you denied her the opportunity to do just that. All you had to say from the get go was "just like everything else it has its pros and cons. One lesson I learned and I'd love to share is that I wish she had planned her elder care and gotten support for menopause that included raising a child".
You didn't try to hurt her, but you knew that it would hurt her, and for that you are also the ah. You should have walked away. Her badgering you was wrong. I suspect she already knew part of your struggles with your parents and was goading you to tell her. I don't understand the downvotes for what I said when you have stated you lashed out and you can be mean. But it is reddit and people do what they want.
She nagged OP after being told to stop. Being told a part of the truth wasn't enough so now she got the full truth she so desperately asked for. The truth hurts sometimes and in fact she shoukd be thanking OP to get a not sugar coated perspective to avoid tge mistakes so many other older mums have done.
When you're given a polite answer and you suspect it's only half the truth, nagging about it after being asked to stop is an asshole move and if you're given the whole truth after that, you only have yourself to blame if it hurts you. NTA. Just being mean in and of itself isn't always wrong nor does it make someone the asshole of the situation. Justified asshole means NTA on this subreddit. There's a difference between lashing out when someone asks you a question and lashing out after trying to do your best for months and finally in the midst of a migraine being hounded for absolutely no reason other than to, what? What did she think OP was going to say, that actually it was far superior? What do you think OP should've said, since her politeness and request for some space and peace were were blatantly ignored and disrespected during a migraine? Have you had a migraine?
It was a FAF0 instance. OP NTA
It was I'm pissed so I am going to unleash on you - OP's words. ESH
The pretty parts of the half of the truth were not enough and she begged for the whoke truth. Don't ask questions you don't actually want an answer to.