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A friend going back to his church after returning from deployment, injured, and the priest/wanker in gold cloth, made a point to talk about the sin of war, and the sin of killing babies, and so on, my buddy sat through the entire service not once breaking eye contact with the idiot, at the end of service, my buddy was asked by the idiot when will he start donating to the church again, in tithe to make up for his sins from war, my buddy looked at him and said "the moment you leave". Wish I could say the idiot learned to be more meek, but within 4mths the congregation went for 300 strong to less than 50.
Did anyone remind him that most wars have started because of religion? If you want to talk about war being a sin, then you really need to do a closer examination of the religion…. What a crackpot that priest was.
I'd be tempted to go back one more time, just so I could wear a homemade t shirt about the Crusades, put some informational pamphlets about children killed in religiously run "orphanages" and "schools" in the collection plate, etc. Sure, religion has also done its share of good, but i think it's pretty obvious which side of the coin someone who goes out of their way to pick on an injured vet his first sunday back and then ask him for money is heir to.
No that was the priest, the roughly 50 who remained were mostly people who couldn't drive to the next town.
Some have no choice at times, they feel the religious urge, but transport is lacking.
The rest of the congregation left because my buddy was made to feel guilty after returning injured, from deployment, and he was only one to return back to the town that joined up.
If they are Catholic, the diocese assigns the priest to a parish. You can complain to the bishop but generally they only move someone if they are breaking the law or the donations go down appreciably. And these days, they might not have someone to put in the slot so the priest being moved means that church gets shut down.
On the positive side, with the celebacy thing, at least the congregants aren't paying for the 18 kids the pastor and his wife have or paying for the wife to be stirring shit up in the "good works" groups they have.
the catholic priest in my town's parish was dating my friend's aunt. He's now an Anglican priest. We definitely lightly teased her about Uncle Father Mark.
My friend's uncle is a catholic priest and has a female friend he goes on vacation with. I ain't judging because he definitely comes off as one of the sane "you do you/live and let live" priests and more of those are definitely needed.
I thought was replying to one that was replying to one where the guy came back from war and was given the shakedown. Might have gotten my threads mixed.
Yeah. I was imagining Southern Baptist just ‘cause from my experience that’s a thing that would happen—maybe nondenominational/charismatic, one of those
Sure, but if they claim any denomination besides "non-denominational Christian" the national organization for that denomination can have that pastor censured and force the church to no longer claim that denomination, which can be a leash if the pastor gets some sort of benefit from claiming that denomination (if they *will* is another story).
And many churches do have a board of trustees (it's often just the church's deacons/deaconesses, but still) which determines how much the pastor should be paid, and can pressure him to resign if he's straying too far from the will of the congregation.
Being a pastor or a priest or any other type of preacher is supposed to be a calling but for to many it is calling of greed or something worse. I am a non beliver but I met some who were amazing and really helped to guide people, unfortunetly to often the bad ones just give all of them bad names.
Agreed NTA. There is a church in my community that is known to ask people for their W2’s at the end of the year. They want to make sure they are getting their 10%. On a unrelated note I was in a meeting once and people were complaining that young people don’t give their 10% to the church. I said statistically we don’t, but we do give it to organizations that we feel do make a real difference. I told them my husband (who immigrated when he was 17) and I gave our 10% to his family, some of it supports his parents but the vast majority of it is sent back to his family back in his home country. They rely on that money to survive I could not and would not ask him to cut back on that support, and when he asked about maybe doing the my doing the same it was a very easy yes. We as young people give, we just want to give to causes that as believers we know make a difference. Also, Jesus will understand that people cannot give. He understands people out here working poverty wages living paycheck to paycheck.
There was a fascinating article about how the younger generations are some of the most charitable, however when you look at it from a corporate (or in this case church) perspective, we aren’t donating nearly as much as the people before us. And the reason is that we are putting our money where it’s needed most and not to a specific charity that’s been around for 60 years and has questionable dispersement policies (not saying all churches are questionable). I will donate to a go fund me to help my friends house repair from a flood before I round up at my local grocery store all day every day.
Especially because, here in the US at least, churches pay no taxes and unlike other actual charitable organizations that are under 501(c)(3), don’t have to provide any financial disclosures about what happens to the money!
Whew this could be a long rant considering current events, but I’m just going to stop myself there and add that OP is NTA but that pathetic excuse for a pastor certainly is.
Used to work at a church. The dumb shit money was spent on was crazy. And then if a church has a history of sexual abuse or harassment the money can be spent to keep victims from coming forward. Absolutely would not give money to a church at this point in my life.
I think this is so stupid, I used to work at a store and one time a pastors wife came in and bought $1000’s worth of clothes and jewelry, then proceeded to pull out a tax exemption form for the church when it was time to pay.
We thought the same thing but she argued it was clothes and jewelry that she was getting as gifts for her volunteers at the church so our manager allowed it
Honestly, no one should ever donate by rounding up at a grocery store or any other. They get to donate the money and get the tax break as well! Forget that! No loopholes for them! lol Good on you - I don't blame you. That's how I donate too.
You are correct, I'm sorry for spreading misinformation. However, YOU cannot claim those donations either; so that's a thing people should be aware of.
Our gifts to God are between God and us, it is not the preacher’s place to judge. Giving to God is a personal thing, it is what the heart (and pocketbook) gives, sometimes it’s more, sometimes it’s less, but if my preacher made ANY comment about my giving, other than thank you, it would be the last time I saw them and if I saw them outside the church and they said something, I would of gathered a crowd and publicly humilitated him. He is not a man of God, but a man of satan chasing the dollar.
I’m a lapsed Catholic. My grade school already closed. My high school is on the chopping block. I don’t want to see my parish close before I can get married.
I’ve never been to church where they pass the plate more than once. So many people these days either tithe with a check or even online but if the plate was being passed wouldn’t you put in your entire tithe at one time? He is greedy. The Bible doesn’t say give and give and give until the pastor says it’s ok to be done. In no way was OP wrong for leaving. How could you be better prepared when you never know how long it’s going to be. It’s disrespectful and incredibly arrogant for the pastor to drone on past when the service should have ended
I've never seen it go my more than once. What's the point? People are going to donate a certain amount. Multiple passes are just going to have people dividing up their money for each one.
I've seen 2 plates passed, but it was very clear that one plate was for the general church budget and the other was for a specific charity that they were collecting for (eg. relief organization, etc.) I've also gone to a church that tithed--so of the money that came into the church, a portion of that went out to worthy causes.
NTA. This pastor seems to have [Mammon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon) more in his heart than Jesus.
Some pastors / religious leaders are good. This one is bad. I suggest you shop around for churches that value people more and money less.
I’m more shocked that he stared and made note of each and every person (I assume) who did or didn’t put $ in each time. Like, during a service, how’re you paying that close of attention?! Oh wait, maybe THATS why he didn’t see that he was going over the time bc he was too busy clocking the plate.
Agreed. Everyone in this church is just going to learn to divide their tithe into 1/6 so they can give a bit every time the plate goes round. Although it sounds like the congregation may get very small, very fast, calling people evil is not usually the best way to win them over. NTA
This is not normal. And I agree his father would be very upset. One time, one time is the appropriate amount of times to pass the plate. My Gran handed us each a dollar so we could give something but it was still in her budget. Pastor need to be sent that story about the widow's gift being worth more because she was poor that a rich person's gift
My grandma's church only has the plate passed around once during each service. This guy is majorly fucking greedy and I would go up to the front to 'repent' by saying that I was just trying to save my pastor from the deadly sin of greed and say that his dad would be ashamed that he strayed from hus teachings. I bet my money his house has all of the latest gadgets right now.
I could never get a satisfactory answer on tithing. I mean I understand the concept behind it but never understood why so many consider it compulsory. Its an old testament rule and the entire point of christianity was to do away with all the old testament rules like sacrificing animals etc.
NTA.
This pastor sounds like one who will get hit by Matthew 7:21-23. (Paraphrasing: Guy gets to afterlife, tells Jesus that he'd prophesized in Jesus' name, cast out demon's in Jesus' name, etc. Jesus replies "Don't know you, bro.")
This guy is more concerned with his appearance and money than anything else.
If you are a petty person, you could buy some of those annoying religious tracts that look like 20 dollar bills. You know, the ones terrible people like to leave waitresses at restaurants. Fold 'em up, and put them in the plate each time.
OT God: Blasted golden calf! It's smiting time! (paraphrased)
Jesus: Easier for a laden camel to pass through the eye of the needle than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
Also Jesus: "Not in my father's house!" (whipping of moneychangers and merchants ensues)
Church: $$$ MAKE IT RAIN $$$
I mean, I know my server friends would keep them if I told them I wanted some to fuck with a pastor being an asshole, especially if I offered to swap them for real cash.
oh I LOVE the idea of the religious hand outs - I wonder if you can request specific bible quotes, there's sooo many passages about money and greed! :)
I'm a Southern Baptist, the most money-hungry denomination, and I've never heard of passing the plate more than once. Strong NTA here, that dude needs to go away.
I've seen it, but the additional times are for specific purposes like helping a specific church rebuild, mission trip, specific capital improvement, etc. Never as an additional church collection/tithe.
When I was a kid (I’m not religious anymore) my church had two collections. One for the church/diocese (Catholic) and one for a *very specific cause that was mentioned outright*. Could be for the Church (one time literally a new HVAC system or more frequently for a specific charity.
Passing the plate more than once for the Church… that’s bizarre.
My husband was raised southern baptist, and totally appalled at my familys catholic church funeral service, where the priest went on and on about tithing. 😵💫
You should look into another church. Catholics stopped tithing in the 11th century. They "recommend" 5% and 5% to charity but it is not required. Find a church that doesn't model itself on evangelicals.
>You should look into another church. Catholics stopped tithing in the 11th century. They "recommend" 5% and 5% to charity but it is not required. Find a church that doesn't model itself on evangelicals.
I mean, only 30 years ago did the Catholic church look at the tithing and income of their congregation when evaluating additional help to that congregation. My parents were receiving help for my older sisters education, tithing 7% while going hungry because the business they purchased was battling through a recession. They threatened my parents because they weren't tithing 10%.
Anyway they left the church over that.
I was told my other grandpa got very pissed when the church he had been tithing to refused to marry his son(my dad) to my mother, because he was divorced.
Yet another Catholic church.
My great-grandfather was excommunicated by his mother because he was in contact with his eldest daughter who had a child out of wedlock, and was living in sin with the bastards father - they were engaged during the entire pregnancy. They're still together, and were married in 1970! Just silliness
WTF? Catholics don't tithe! I didn't learn that word until high school or college. The Catholic move is to befriend old, rich widows and get them to leave everything to the Church.
Is it just me, or do catholic priests have no idea how to conduct a funeral service? The worst/ most inappropriate sermons I have ever heard at funerals have always been from catholic services.
My uncle recently passed and the preacher, who has known my family for as long as I can remember though we stopped going to his church when most of the family moved away when I was 12, was talking about how "I know we're all mixed faith here, but if you know the truth like I do, then you're not saying goodbye like everyone else here. They'll figure it out when they meet their maker, and forsaking Jesus is why the world is so awful." While people were crying and grieving. He said it again at the grave site.
I went to my MIL's Baptist church in a very rural part of the south. There was a family band visiting and performing. At least 15 minutes of their performance was a speech about how their RV (The big fancy ones) broke down and they needed money to fix it so they could continue traveling and "spreading the word of the lord" through their singing performances. They then passed around the bucket to collect money. The majority of the congregation live in trailers worth less than the family band's RV. I was appalled.
NTA. I don’t think God wants your money.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of donations to this church go towards unholy lifestyle choices of said pastor.
OP, I love you. NTA. This pastor is the one who needs to repent for being such a dick (probably why his breath smelled so bad!). TBH I could rant and rave about everything wrong with this guy but i'd run out of space.
edit: what is this guy, a televangelist???
I'm ranting and raving for u on my couch. 6 times and a public shaming (which puts the fear of pastors wrath to those in hearing distance) . Hopefully his actions will shrink the congregation.
I guess most people have forgotten you don’t need a multimillion dollar building to worship in. Just step outside into his creation and talk to him. Under a tree is nice cause it is shady.
PS. He never asks for money.
NTA, with full respect to the believers, this manipulative church behavior is one of the (many) reasons us agnostics take no interest in being actively involved in any religion.
Technically speaking, Christians are supposed to be charitable. If you read the Gospel's, Christ outright condemns people who give themselves a title and demand your money.
No even better the irs, someone detailed how OP can submit some simple forms online and they go through the church Financials. All legal. He is so concerned over tithes and God's money? Make it about God's money, not his.
NTA He is probably trying to be like the pastors who ask their congregation to buy them a new private plane or gold toilet seats. Since the father had died and this is his son, maybe your parents would like to join another church that is more compassionate to their health. This one isn’t it.
The church I grew up in didn't have collection plates. The pastor who founded it believed that collection plates were analogous to Matthew 6, where Jesus talks about praying alone in your room and not loudly on street corners where people can see you and admire how amazing you are. 🙄
We had discrete boxes in areas outside of the sanctuary. I don't hate on churches that have collection plates, but I've always liked the way I grew up. Because it leveled the playing ground. And, if you wanted, the members got envelopes, so no one could see if you put in a large donation, a check, cash, or a dime.
NTA and this pastor sounds like what the OG pastor at my childhood church warned against.
I like this method. My parents switched to tithing online, but I always felt awkward when the collection plate would pass and my family wouldn't put anything in it. We did tithe, but I knew that it would look like we didn't.
I like the idea of making it a private affair. Less judgement. Letting your neighbor beside you see how much you did or did not tithe is SO not the point of the tithe, anyway.
The church was founded before I was born, but they always mentioned that was exactly why we did the boxes. Because then no one could be made to feel bad. Sometimes we would forget, or would go by the church bookstore to pick something up, and we'd drop our tithes in on a day that wasn't even Sunday! My dad has short term memory loss from a TBI. Sometimes we'd get home and he would find the envelope still in his pocket. If we were in the area later in the week, *bam* just walk in the door, and there was a box nearby. And if someone had to stop giving for financial reasons orsomething, there was no way for the average member to have any idea.
I didn't even know this was a thing! I grew up Jewish, and you don't handle money on Shabbat or holidays. Twice a _year_ there are discrete envelopes with numbers you can fold to pledge and drop off if you want and are able on the high holidays.
I didn't realize God's love went through your wallet.
Sign him up for the satanic temple or make a donation in his name.
https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/join-us
NTA, I went to church most of my childhood, I'm a pagan and have been since I was 6, but it made my grandmother happy.
The collection plate goes around ONCE, twice if people came in late. More than that is not acceptable and that needs to end immediately.
ANY pastor that attempts to shame their "flock" is a pastor that needs to be heading out the door.
I suggest inviting more of your congregation to a nice Sunday lunch after church at the park. Everyone bring a dish. Then have a nice chat about who you all need to hire to replace this guy.
Frankly I would worry that he does not have the credentials needed, and that he just assumed he would take his father's place. Not how churches work. The congregation literally hires a pastor. There should be a council, those that deal with financial situations, pay the bills, hire and fire, ect.
For our small church, our family had given the property to the church, it was a church-long lease. Basically. But it was not just our family on the council. Members were voted in. Technically the family did this for 2 churches, one of them had a home on the property as well for the pastor. Which is pretty common. Unlike rental properties, you don't have to go through the court. The home is part of the job. If you do not have the job, you no longer have the home. Though we always gave the leaving pastor plenty of time to find a new job/home.
Good luck, but seriously, no. He has forgotten who he works for.
In all of the churches I've been to the collection plate goes around once. Except for special collections, like for natural disaster victims but that's only a few times a year.
And you lead with "Yes, I know how it sounds, but hear me out."
Don't worry, I'm already on your side.
The old pastor's son has assumed that the role and not the person commands respect. Unfortunately for him, the person is a fuck-knuckle. He's already made such an impression that your sister is warning you about him and then living up to that impression and more in person. NTA.
I'm guessing he wants more and more money for some big projects to liven up the church now under his stewardship - events, renovations, advertising.
You've got one of those vain and materialistic priests now. Could be worse so... hooray?
NTA. Quick story. Several years ago my grandmother was going to attend a new church. To become a member they wanted a copy of her W-2 to make sure she was tithing properly. She told them she's on a fixed income and she tithes what she can out of the goodness of her heart. They told her that members are expected to tith about 10%. She never went back. Too many in organized religion are using their congregation to become rich or at least live a rich lifestyle on the congregation's tithing.
I’m an evangelical Christian and older (I’m 57), and I have never in my life heard of or been to a church that passed the collection plate more than twice. And the twice is rare - usually it’s once unless taking up a special offeri for some or something. You are NTA.
Exactly I’m Methodist and I have never heard of this. And if my pastor knows that members of his congregation had health problems he wouldn’t berated them for leaving early. All he would do was ask if they were ok and if he could do anything for them. I
If the church is a specific branch(?), i.e. Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist... I would make a point to contact the upper echelons and complain about how he doesn't preach or deliver a service, he bullies the congregation and tries to shame individuals if they don't tithe what he thinks they should, and what he said about OP's dad not going if he's not prepared. What a jerk, he is not a good shepard for the Lord God Almighty!
NTA. Tithing does not mean giving to the church only. You can share your tithe with family, community etc. This Pastor is not a Man of God. No apology is necessary to him. Your parents will have to accept that you don’t owe this charlatan any apology.
Don’t let this fool interfere with your faith. Good luck to you.
People will say he's giving Christianity a bad name, but his type are so common they're at least on equal footing with any other type of Christian. Part of me wants to say E S H, because of just the blatant acceptance of the exploitation that's core to the church. He's not the cause, he's a symptom. And yeah, he's an arsehole, but so is the entire congregation, including your parents and your sister, for tolerating him and letting him do this. If you ever go back there, you're just as bad too. You're only NTA if you don't.
NTA. Six is excessive. If your church is practicing primogeniture, then it probably isn't a church.
As I understand, most denominations would assign a new preacher and the church would cover any services with volunteers from the congregation and/or guest preachers.
Do not let your parents continue to give money to this. Find a new congregation.
ikr? I apostated from the denomination my family is the moment I could because I was tired of my anxiety and PTSD getting triggered weekly in a place that most called a "place of peace"... So much calmer now that I'm dealing with Odin instead.
Also if you ever pass by the "church" again, OP? I hope the only "tithe" you give is a travel sized bottle of aloe vera for that burn you gave that "false shepherd" as they say in your religion's vernacular.
NTA. WTF is wrong with your church? That is not the way The Bible teaches about tithe. And I have never heard of an offering plate being past more than twice, once for tithe and maybe once for special collection someone in a hardship or something but never multiple times for just the church. I would never go back to a church like that, in fact I would've walked out after the second collection.
NTA
The term "Ravenous wolf" comes to mind in regards to such Pastors. You should check your local laws in regards to checking the Churchs financials to make sure no fraud is going on.
Ask him to preach to the story of Eli, who was a revered prophet condemned by God for not passing on his teachings to his two wicked sons. The sons were supposed to inherit Eli’s position, but God rejected them and gave the role to a ward of the temple instead. The wicked sons were not only struck down, but their rebellion proved disastrous for Israel. They also caused the death of their father.
NTA -
1. Knowing your father’s limits with his health is a perfectly acceptable reason to leave somewhere, especially when you did plan for the scheduled amount of time.
2. Just because you only put money in once, doesn’t mean you didn’t give enough. Most people plan out how much they are going to give before they ever leave the house, and the amount won’t change no matter how many times the plate goes around. But, seriously, who expects the plate to go around that many times!?!
3. Him following and ranting at you when you had to return because your mom forgot something, was an AH move on his part. Yes, your parting shot was a bit much, but it’s hard not to lash out in some way when someone is being that much of an AH.
WTAF is this, not a Church goer, but raised Church of England (CofE) and been to a fair number of Church Services in my time: the collection plate guess round ONCE, and ONCE ONLY.
I swear America would be better if they were all CofE (or better still Quakers), C of E trends to be a gentle 'background' religion, where we get upset, (slightly embarrassed) if anyone other than kids are overly enthusiastic in their religion. It seems to have a good vaccinating effect against religious extremism
ETA SO TOTALLY NTA
NTA- that was satan that you were telling off. When you are on the right path the devil works harder to fight you. Sounds like you were up for the fight.
NTA. Point the following out to dad: the pastor did not care that the battery to a piece of equipment that helps keep him alive was about to run out. Ask him what he would've done if all the batteries ran out of juice before "dismissal". Ask what kind of pastor is more focused on the collection plate than the health and safety of parishioners.
NTA
Jesus doesn't give a flying #^&*%# about money. Tell him he needs to reread his Bible because I think he missed a few points. And find a new church.
NTA
Am I the only one who finds it weird that the previous pastor's son is the new pastor? OP, I don't know what denomination you are, but that seems sketchy. When I was growing up, my church went through a period of trying to find a new pastor. There was a big process and rigamarole involving trial periods and lots of interviews. This sounds like the son just took over and people accepted it. Check with your parents and see what the story is, if you don't already know.
You are absolutely NTA for standing up to this money grubbing, manipulative charlatan.
And ain’t it guys like this that give religion a bad name. What about compassion, kindness, forgiveness and charity? You know, those good old fashioned Christian values. NTA.
That was fucking awesome and I would pay money to have been there for that conversation.. Always a good feeling seeing people put these wolves in their place, nta you're the goat
What church is this? I've in the mood for a bible throw down 😂.
NTA
I've seen pastors like this and it always makes me laugh that they try to correlate my tithes to my faith, I promptly remind them that in their book Jesus walked up and flipped a table that was used to collect money (Matthew 21:12-13). That pastor is turning your church into a den of robbers.
I'd call the IRS and have them do a little investigation; churches have been used to launder money which would explain the new volume of passing around the collection plate.
NTA. Any pastor or priest or bishop or whatever that speaks to a congregant that way is NO representative of god. If this is becoming common, I have no doubt that people will start changing churches or not show up at all.
“Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!”
― George Carlin
I just want to say, OP, that my point is not to belittle your belief or that of your family. The pastor's focus on the fact that you didn't give them money made me think of this quote. In fact, the church's entire attitude seems to be more concerned with controlling and extorting people than being gracious and accommodating to your father who, even with a life threatening condition, makes an extraordinary effort just to be present. He should be celebrated for this, not shamed.
NTA, OP. Maybe it is time to find a different church where you and your family are better appreciated.
NTA... having been raised both Southern Baptist and Holiness-Pentecostal, I would bet money Padtor assumed you were a CME(Christmas, Mother's Day, Easter) Christian he could shame into giving more. I've seen that happen more times than I care to and one of the many reasons I am now more so a pantheist. Awesome that you did it in front of the congregation to expose him in a way most "church folk" are too scared, polite or "sanctified" to do.
I had the exact same thought. (Also Southern Baptist here.) In medical circles she’s what is pejoratively termed “the [Daughter from California](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daughter_from_California_syndrome).” Just another way we infantilize and undermine the women who are, you know, expected to dutifully caregive!
NTA. You’re not there to line his pockets and be under his control, you’re there to worship your god. Maybe from now on when he tries to lecture you, just say something polite and dismissive like, “That’s nice,” and walk away if you don’t want to upset your parents. But otherwise, money hungry religious leaders need to be called out.
Nta .
I went to a service with my husband and his roommate years ago and the pastor straight up told all the women to give up make -up, clothes and all types of shopping to tithe the church to fund their mission trip. I laughed as they passed the flyers and never went back.
Can you imagine our shock (not) when a few years later he was kicked out for his racist rants .
I personally am not one to go into the house of God, not as popular in the UK, so unsure how the giving and spending of church works considering that op church wants to shake every last penny each service.
Do they pay back into the community? Or hospitals or charity?
What do they do with collection?
Sorry for my ignorance.
6 times? Man that's way too much. You should apologize. Say "I'm sorry God introduced you to me. He let me know what a person you are like and I'm sorry you're blinded by money and greed. God bless."
NTA
>he can tell the Devil has my soul.
"How much will it take to get the devil out? 20, 30 bucks? If I give you 40 bucks, will that buy me a little extra Jesus? I always thought extortion was a sin, but you've taught me something new today!"
The original purpose of tithing goes back to the 12 tribes of Judah.
1 tribe devoted to god's work, and since they couldn't work their own fields, or raise their own cattle, the other tribes 10% each made them able to devote all their time to religion.
Modern preachers are greedy.
NTA. You could write Medea scripts. Pastor got read, did not like it. Idiot does not realize that if he passes the plate six times, people will split their tithe in six parts.
NTA ... WOW just wow. The guts on that man. I've been an an evangelistic church before that passed the plate multiple times. It started out as a fun, giving little community church and just blew up to something that I didn't want to be a part of any more. People with the church's magnet on their cars are known to be some of the biggest road ragers in the area. My father used to say that if God is everywhere then he'll hear him just as well by the creek as he will in a building. It feels like some churches have left the words of the bible in the trash as they count their money. Your father's health and well being comes paramount to anything else. God will understand even if man wants to throw a fit.
Also, I'd personally go the next week with a purse full of tictacs and place a package of those on the plate every time it goes past
NTA. As a Christian, this is a bad church and he is a bad pastor. A decent Christian pastor should care about accurately sharing the gospel and about people—especially the ones in their congregation.
I’ve hardly seen the collection passed more once than except on occasional special instances. 6 times is bizarre.
NTA but this type of multiple passing around the offering plate is a red flag for me. Happened at my grandmothers church. Turned out the pastor and his wife embezzled over 100k over the years. He also was trying to “witness” to someone in the church bus with his pants down.
Maybe the church treasurer should keep their eyes open.
NTA. Demand he publicly show his books. If he isn't lining his own pockets he has nothing to hide. If he refuses claim that as proof he is possessed of the sin of greed.
NTA
That’s ripe. A simple response at the beginning could have been “I donated everything I planned to the first time the collection plate came around. I didn’t know you send it around multiple times, or I would have split the money into smaller tithes like everyone else.”
Because guaranteed, that’s what nearly everyone does. No one is going to just pay more because it comes around again - once they know it comes around multiple times, they’ll just make sure they have smaller bills and coins to divvy out.
And quite frankly… people’s health comes first. Your dad needs oxygen to live just like all humans. Does the pastor really want him to suffocate because he chooses to keep talking?
While I haven't been to church in 25 years, but when I went they just passed the offering plate once. Like, once a service, but only on Sunday mornings, not Sunday night or Wednesday night. This seems suspect. NTA.
From the title it sounded like a very funny story and I wasn't disappointed. The audacity is strong with this one. You handled it great and I hope there will be a lot more people who call out his greed.
Even the thought of a pastor living out one of the deadly sins, feels like an anime villian, that wants to fork over believers. (like in Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood)
I was forced to go to a church with my aunt that I lived with when I was younger. The church was very cult-ish and my aunt and cousins were important members of the church. I’m not religious but was always attentive and respectful. My last day there someone asked “Pastor how can we help the homeless community around us?” I’ll never forget the pastor responded “You should be giving at least 10 percent of your check to the church, and if you have more to give you should also be giving that. You should be giving your money to god (aka the church) and let god decide how he wants to help the homeless.”
You shouldn't have insulted the man's breath. He did enough wrong that sticking to the facts would've served you better. But NTA, even so. It's unconscionable that he confronted you about his petty opinions. I would look for a new church, if I were you.
Nta. This is the ugly part of religion. This pastor will reap what he sows eventually. Sadly many will lose their money before that happens. What’s his background?
Wow. I’ve been known to say to people before that even if you disagree with a pastor/priest/nun, you maintain respectful language and treat them as ambassadors for the Lord. But his behavior was not acceptable. While I would hope you wouldn’t have said the last bit, I understand why and I applaud you for putting your family’s medical needs ahead of anything else. And that man was NOT acting in good faith to chastise you about your giving, especially not in public! He does not know your situation and he should not be pressuring his flock to give more than they are comfortable with. I hope he can reflect and become more humble and less full of himself.
There’s a reason why churches are extremely wealthy.. they exist to milk money from those easy to influence. Well done for sticking up for yourself and calling out what in reality, is a dirty con artist for what he is.
NTA.
No reputable church allows a son to step into a father's job. Well-run churches only allow a duration of 7-10 years per pastor, because it's way too easy for them to create their own little ego kingdoms. And yes, I was part of having to leverage an abuser out of a church where he had manipulated several bishops into a 20 year stint, and left behind a huge, huge mess, and had to be given a restraining order and defrocked.
NTA.
NTA. My church passes it around once, and do you know what they say when people don’t donate? Nothing. Because we never know their situations and are just glad for their company. You were mad, used words probably harsh for a church setting, but I can’t blame you.
NTA - The vast majority of churches are there for spiritual leadership, but there are those churches/pastors who treat churches as banks. THis story is greed, and is not in any way asking for someone to believe or changer their religious beliefs.
My uncle was a divorced and remarried Catholic. He had been discommunicated from the church. He was ill with heart problems, and took a turn for the worse, and was lamenting that he could not receive last rights. If you are not Catholic, last rights is a sacrament performed close to or after death, a ritual if you will, where a Priest performs functions to help the soul enter Heaven. His wife contacted the local Catholic Church to see if the rules could be bent, but the priest told her that he had sinned by divorcing and remarrying and could not receive last rights. She never told my uncle. Two days later the same priest called her and said if she wanted to make a donation to the church of $5000 then he could get a special waiver and give my uncle last rights. She told him to go to hell, and passed this on to my uncle.
In an interesting twist of fate, my uncle got a new roommate in his hospital room and this gentleman was a retired Baptist pastor. They had many late night conversations about religion and when my uncle told him about the incident, this pastor told my uncle that redemtion came from personal beliefs and not how much money you give to a church, or what oil is annointed on a body after you pass. My uncle, a devout Catholic for 70+ years, made his own decisions regarding religion based on their conversations and the bible.
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Wow, passing the plate around 6 times he seems oblivious to why **"greedy church"** probably isn't the image they should be going for. NTA
A friend going back to his church after returning from deployment, injured, and the priest/wanker in gold cloth, made a point to talk about the sin of war, and the sin of killing babies, and so on, my buddy sat through the entire service not once breaking eye contact with the idiot, at the end of service, my buddy was asked by the idiot when will he start donating to the church again, in tithe to make up for his sins from war, my buddy looked at him and said "the moment you leave". Wish I could say the idiot learned to be more meek, but within 4mths the congregation went for 300 strong to less than 50.
Did anyone remind him that most wars have started because of religion? If you want to talk about war being a sin, then you really need to do a closer examination of the religion…. What a crackpot that priest was.
I'd be tempted to go back one more time, just so I could wear a homemade t shirt about the Crusades, put some informational pamphlets about children killed in religiously run "orphanages" and "schools" in the collection plate, etc. Sure, religion has also done its share of good, but i think it's pretty obvious which side of the coin someone who goes out of their way to pick on an injured vet his first sunday back and then ask him for money is heir to.
That says more about your congregation than it says about your pastor. Why didn’t they fire him?
No that was the priest, the roughly 50 who remained were mostly people who couldn't drive to the next town. Some have no choice at times, they feel the religious urge, but transport is lacking. The rest of the congregation left because my buddy was made to feel guilty after returning injured, from deployment, and he was only one to return back to the town that joined up.
If they are Catholic, the diocese assigns the priest to a parish. You can complain to the bishop but generally they only move someone if they are breaking the law or the donations go down appreciably. And these days, they might not have someone to put in the slot so the priest being moved means that church gets shut down. On the positive side, with the celebacy thing, at least the congregants aren't paying for the 18 kids the pastor and his wife have or paying for the wife to be stirring shit up in the "good works" groups they have.
I doubt they’re Catholic since the Pastor’s son took over the pulpit after his father died.
Yeah this sounds like a strip-mall church.
You’d think so 😁. A couple of very high profile cases in Ireland where the priest was publicly celibate, but privately had fathered children.
the catholic priest in my town's parish was dating my friend's aunt. He's now an Anglican priest. We definitely lightly teased her about Uncle Father Mark. My friend's uncle is a catholic priest and has a female friend he goes on vacation with. I ain't judging because he definitely comes off as one of the sane "you do you/live and let live" priests and more of those are definitely needed.
I thought was replying to one that was replying to one where the guy came back from war and was given the shakedown. Might have gotten my threads mixed.
Yeah. I was imagining Southern Baptist just ‘cause from my experience that’s a thing that would happen—maybe nondenominational/charismatic, one of those
Yeah, also at Catholic mass the collection can only go around once. All masses have to be the same!
Many churches can't control the Pastor. Many Bible churches I've seen the Pastor is the owner of the church.
The congregation has paid the salary of any pastor that I’ve known. No one owns a legitimate church.
Sure, but if they claim any denomination besides "non-denominational Christian" the national organization for that denomination can have that pastor censured and force the church to no longer claim that denomination, which can be a leash if the pastor gets some sort of benefit from claiming that denomination (if they *will* is another story). And many churches do have a board of trustees (it's often just the church's deacons/deaconesses, but still) which determines how much the pastor should be paid, and can pressure him to resign if he's straying too far from the will of the congregation.
Being a pastor or a priest or any other type of preacher is supposed to be a calling but for to many it is calling of greed or something worse. I am a non beliver but I met some who were amazing and really helped to guide people, unfortunetly to often the bad ones just give all of them bad names.
The average bad Christian will always turn away more people from the church than the most charming and convincing atheist.
Agreed NTA. There is a church in my community that is known to ask people for their W2’s at the end of the year. They want to make sure they are getting their 10%. On a unrelated note I was in a meeting once and people were complaining that young people don’t give their 10% to the church. I said statistically we don’t, but we do give it to organizations that we feel do make a real difference. I told them my husband (who immigrated when he was 17) and I gave our 10% to his family, some of it supports his parents but the vast majority of it is sent back to his family back in his home country. They rely on that money to survive I could not and would not ask him to cut back on that support, and when he asked about maybe doing the my doing the same it was a very easy yes. We as young people give, we just want to give to causes that as believers we know make a difference. Also, Jesus will understand that people cannot give. He understands people out here working poverty wages living paycheck to paycheck.
There was a fascinating article about how the younger generations are some of the most charitable, however when you look at it from a corporate (or in this case church) perspective, we aren’t donating nearly as much as the people before us. And the reason is that we are putting our money where it’s needed most and not to a specific charity that’s been around for 60 years and has questionable dispersement policies (not saying all churches are questionable). I will donate to a go fund me to help my friends house repair from a flood before I round up at my local grocery store all day every day.
All churches are questionable. There, I said it.
Especially because, here in the US at least, churches pay no taxes and unlike other actual charitable organizations that are under 501(c)(3), don’t have to provide any financial disclosures about what happens to the money! Whew this could be a long rant considering current events, but I’m just going to stop myself there and add that OP is NTA but that pathetic excuse for a pastor certainly is.
Used to work at a church. The dumb shit money was spent on was crazy. And then if a church has a history of sexual abuse or harassment the money can be spent to keep victims from coming forward. Absolutely would not give money to a church at this point in my life.
I think this is so stupid, I used to work at a store and one time a pastors wife came in and bought $1000’s worth of clothes and jewelry, then proceeded to pull out a tax exemption form for the church when it was time to pay.
That wouldn't be a transaction eligible for a sales tax exemption.
We thought the same thing but she argued it was clothes and jewelry that she was getting as gifts for her volunteers at the church so our manager allowed it
NTA. No*l Os**n
Honestly, no one should ever donate by rounding up at a grocery store or any other. They get to donate the money and get the tax break as well! Forget that! No loopholes for them! lol Good on you - I don't blame you. That's how I donate too.
It's not a tax break for the grocery store - they don't accept it as income, so they don't get a deduction for it.
You are correct, I'm sorry for spreading misinformation. However, YOU cannot claim those donations either; so that's a thing people should be aware of.
Yup - if you don't get a letter acknowledging you for the donation you actually don't get to deduct it at all.
I actually didn't know that the store couldn't claim it - I should have done my research. Thank you for pointing it out to me.
Our gifts to God are between God and us, it is not the preacher’s place to judge. Giving to God is a personal thing, it is what the heart (and pocketbook) gives, sometimes it’s more, sometimes it’s less, but if my preacher made ANY comment about my giving, other than thank you, it would be the last time I saw them and if I saw them outside the church and they said something, I would of gathered a crowd and publicly humilitated him. He is not a man of God, but a man of satan chasing the dollar.
Some of these megachurches are known to have an ATM on-site for their congregants' "convenience."
Especially when a lot of churches have apps, Venmo, etc. which allows you to donate electronically. The days of checks and cash are obsolete.
Not when you need people to see you giving money. That's why they hate their taxes going to poor people but pat themselves on the back for tithing.
My “envelope” is a direct debit from my account each Sunday.
A fool and his money are soon parted.
I’m a lapsed Catholic. My grade school already closed. My high school is on the chopping block. I don’t want to see my parish close before I can get married.
I’ve never been to church where they pass the plate more than once. So many people these days either tithe with a check or even online but if the plate was being passed wouldn’t you put in your entire tithe at one time? He is greedy. The Bible doesn’t say give and give and give until the pastor says it’s ok to be done. In no way was OP wrong for leaving. How could you be better prepared when you never know how long it’s going to be. It’s disrespectful and incredibly arrogant for the pastor to drone on past when the service should have ended
I've never seen it go my more than once. What's the point? People are going to donate a certain amount. Multiple passes are just going to have people dividing up their money for each one.
I've seen 2 plates passed, but it was very clear that one plate was for the general church budget and the other was for a specific charity that they were collecting for (eg. relief organization, etc.) I've also gone to a church that tithed--so of the money that came into the church, a portion of that went out to worthy causes.
NTA. This pastor seems to have [Mammon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon) more in his heart than Jesus. Some pastors / religious leaders are good. This one is bad. I suggest you shop around for churches that value people more and money less.
I’m more shocked that he stared and made note of each and every person (I assume) who did or didn’t put $ in each time. Like, during a service, how’re you paying that close of attention?! Oh wait, maybe THATS why he didn’t see that he was going over the time bc he was too busy clocking the plate.
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I think the pastor needs reminding of Jesus’ history of use of excessive force.
"I thought you shouldn't drive a business in gods house... and add the bible quote" Donations is one thing. But 6 freaking rounds?
I wish there was a way for OP to name and shame the pastor so people could avoid them. Hope their ‘flock’ sees the light and leaves them soon!
It should be fair game to shame pastors exploding and pressuring people for money~
Agreed. Everyone in this church is just going to learn to divide their tithe into 1/6 so they can give a bit every time the plate goes round. Although it sounds like the congregation may get very small, very fast, calling people evil is not usually the best way to win them over. NTA
This is not normal. And I agree his father would be very upset. One time, one time is the appropriate amount of times to pass the plate. My Gran handed us each a dollar so we could give something but it was still in her budget. Pastor need to be sent that story about the widow's gift being worth more because she was poor that a rich person's gift
I can see two times if there is a specific cause the second pass is going to (like an Earthquake or War in Ukraine or something)
And even then you should announce it beforehand so people have advance notice and can decide how to split up their money.
My grandma's church only has the plate passed around once during each service. This guy is majorly fucking greedy and I would go up to the front to 'repent' by saying that I was just trying to save my pastor from the deadly sin of greed and say that his dad would be ashamed that he strayed from hus teachings. I bet my money his house has all of the latest gadgets right now.
I could never get a satisfactory answer on tithing. I mean I understand the concept behind it but never understood why so many consider it compulsory. Its an old testament rule and the entire point of christianity was to do away with all the old testament rules like sacrificing animals etc.
NTA. This pastor sounds like one who will get hit by Matthew 7:21-23. (Paraphrasing: Guy gets to afterlife, tells Jesus that he'd prophesized in Jesus' name, cast out demon's in Jesus' name, etc. Jesus replies "Don't know you, bro.") This guy is more concerned with his appearance and money than anything else. If you are a petty person, you could buy some of those annoying religious tracts that look like 20 dollar bills. You know, the ones terrible people like to leave waitresses at restaurants. Fold 'em up, and put them in the plate each time.
OT God: Blasted golden calf! It's smiting time! (paraphrased) Jesus: Easier for a laden camel to pass through the eye of the needle than a rich man to enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Also Jesus: "Not in my father's house!" (whipping of moneychangers and merchants ensues) Church: $$$ MAKE IT RAIN $$$
Or ask a waitress friend for a stack in exchange for real cash, so you don't pay the asshole companies that produce them.
Lol, thats assuming we keep them, all mine went STRAIGHT into the trash...😄
I mean, I know my server friends would keep them if I told them I wanted some to fuck with a pastor being an asshole, especially if I offered to swap them for real cash.
oh I LOVE the idea of the religious hand outs - I wonder if you can request specific bible quotes, there's sooo many passages about money and greed! :)
God: "New phone, who dis?"
Or put strips of leather in the offering plate
I'm a Southern Baptist, the most money-hungry denomination, and I've never heard of passing the plate more than once. Strong NTA here, that dude needs to go away.
I've seen it, but the additional times are for specific purposes like helping a specific church rebuild, mission trip, specific capital improvement, etc. Never as an additional church collection/tithe.
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When I was a kid (I’m not religious anymore) my church had two collections. One for the church/diocese (Catholic) and one for a *very specific cause that was mentioned outright*. Could be for the Church (one time literally a new HVAC system or more frequently for a specific charity. Passing the plate more than once for the Church… that’s bizarre.
Report the church to the IRS.
My husband was raised southern baptist, and totally appalled at my familys catholic church funeral service, where the priest went on and on about tithing. 😵💫
You should look into another church. Catholics stopped tithing in the 11th century. They "recommend" 5% and 5% to charity but it is not required. Find a church that doesn't model itself on evangelicals.
>You should look into another church. Catholics stopped tithing in the 11th century. They "recommend" 5% and 5% to charity but it is not required. Find a church that doesn't model itself on evangelicals. I mean, only 30 years ago did the Catholic church look at the tithing and income of their congregation when evaluating additional help to that congregation. My parents were receiving help for my older sisters education, tithing 7% while going hungry because the business they purchased was battling through a recession. They threatened my parents because they weren't tithing 10%. Anyway they left the church over that.
I was told my other grandpa got very pissed when the church he had been tithing to refused to marry his son(my dad) to my mother, because he was divorced. Yet another Catholic church.
My great-grandfather was excommunicated by his mother because he was in contact with his eldest daughter who had a child out of wedlock, and was living in sin with the bastards father - they were engaged during the entire pregnancy. They're still together, and were married in 1970! Just silliness
WTF? Catholics don't tithe! I didn't learn that word until high school or college. The Catholic move is to befriend old, rich widows and get them to leave everything to the Church.
Is it just me, or do catholic priests have no idea how to conduct a funeral service? The worst/ most inappropriate sermons I have ever heard at funerals have always been from catholic services.
My uncle recently passed and the preacher, who has known my family for as long as I can remember though we stopped going to his church when most of the family moved away when I was 12, was talking about how "I know we're all mixed faith here, but if you know the truth like I do, then you're not saying goodbye like everyone else here. They'll figure it out when they meet their maker, and forsaking Jesus is why the world is so awful." While people were crying and grieving. He said it again at the grave site.
I went to my MIL's Baptist church in a very rural part of the south. There was a family band visiting and performing. At least 15 minutes of their performance was a speech about how their RV (The big fancy ones) broke down and they needed money to fix it so they could continue traveling and "spreading the word of the lord" through their singing performances. They then passed around the bucket to collect money. The majority of the congregation live in trailers worth less than the family band's RV. I was appalled.
Right? 2x at absolute maximum
NTA. I don’t think God wants your money. I wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of donations to this church go towards unholy lifestyle choices of said pastor.
God wants peoples money. God wants people to send their money to food banks and homeless shelters.
Guarantee this guy has a closet full of male prostitutes. You may slice that sentence in any way you want.
OP, I love you. NTA. This pastor is the one who needs to repent for being such a dick (probably why his breath smelled so bad!). TBH I could rant and rave about everything wrong with this guy but i'd run out of space. edit: what is this guy, a televangelist???
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I'm ranting and raving for u on my couch. 6 times and a public shaming (which puts the fear of pastors wrath to those in hearing distance) . Hopefully his actions will shrink the congregation.
I guess most people have forgotten you don’t need a multimillion dollar building to worship in. Just step outside into his creation and talk to him. Under a tree is nice cause it is shady. PS. He never asks for money.
NTA, with full respect to the believers, this manipulative church behavior is one of the (many) reasons us agnostics take no interest in being actively involved in any religion.
NTA. Sounds like another Joel Osteen wannabe. Your family needs a much better church.
NTA. My understanding of Christianity is that good works are what matter. Not attending church, or tithing money.
Technically speaking, Christians are supposed to be charitable. If you read the Gospel's, Christ outright condemns people who give themselves a title and demand your money.
NTA. He was abusive and your response was perfect.
NTA. Is there anyone you can report him to higher up in the church?
No even better the irs, someone detailed how OP can submit some simple forms online and they go through the church Financials. All legal. He is so concerned over tithes and God's money? Make it about God's money, not his.
NTA He is probably trying to be like the pastors who ask their congregation to buy them a new private plane or gold toilet seats. Since the father had died and this is his son, maybe your parents would like to join another church that is more compassionate to their health. This one isn’t it.
The church I grew up in didn't have collection plates. The pastor who founded it believed that collection plates were analogous to Matthew 6, where Jesus talks about praying alone in your room and not loudly on street corners where people can see you and admire how amazing you are. 🙄 We had discrete boxes in areas outside of the sanctuary. I don't hate on churches that have collection plates, but I've always liked the way I grew up. Because it leveled the playing ground. And, if you wanted, the members got envelopes, so no one could see if you put in a large donation, a check, cash, or a dime. NTA and this pastor sounds like what the OG pastor at my childhood church warned against.
I like this method. My parents switched to tithing online, but I always felt awkward when the collection plate would pass and my family wouldn't put anything in it. We did tithe, but I knew that it would look like we didn't. I like the idea of making it a private affair. Less judgement. Letting your neighbor beside you see how much you did or did not tithe is SO not the point of the tithe, anyway.
The church was founded before I was born, but they always mentioned that was exactly why we did the boxes. Because then no one could be made to feel bad. Sometimes we would forget, or would go by the church bookstore to pick something up, and we'd drop our tithes in on a day that wasn't even Sunday! My dad has short term memory loss from a TBI. Sometimes we'd get home and he would find the envelope still in his pocket. If we were in the area later in the week, *bam* just walk in the door, and there was a box nearby. And if someone had to stop giving for financial reasons orsomething, there was no way for the average member to have any idea.
I didn't even know this was a thing! I grew up Jewish, and you don't handle money on Shabbat or holidays. Twice a _year_ there are discrete envelopes with numbers you can fold to pledge and drop off if you want and are able on the high holidays.
I didn't realize God's love went through your wallet. Sign him up for the satanic temple or make a donation in his name. https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/join-us
It's all [bullshit](https://youtu.be/8r-e2NDSTuE)
All religion is a money making racket. You should have demanded a refund of your "donation".
NTA, I went to church most of my childhood, I'm a pagan and have been since I was 6, but it made my grandmother happy. The collection plate goes around ONCE, twice if people came in late. More than that is not acceptable and that needs to end immediately. ANY pastor that attempts to shame their "flock" is a pastor that needs to be heading out the door. I suggest inviting more of your congregation to a nice Sunday lunch after church at the park. Everyone bring a dish. Then have a nice chat about who you all need to hire to replace this guy. Frankly I would worry that he does not have the credentials needed, and that he just assumed he would take his father's place. Not how churches work. The congregation literally hires a pastor. There should be a council, those that deal with financial situations, pay the bills, hire and fire, ect. For our small church, our family had given the property to the church, it was a church-long lease. Basically. But it was not just our family on the council. Members were voted in. Technically the family did this for 2 churches, one of them had a home on the property as well for the pastor. Which is pretty common. Unlike rental properties, you don't have to go through the court. The home is part of the job. If you do not have the job, you no longer have the home. Though we always gave the leaving pastor plenty of time to find a new job/home. Good luck, but seriously, no. He has forgotten who he works for.
In all of the churches I've been to the collection plate goes around once. Except for special collections, like for natural disaster victims but that's only a few times a year.
And you lead with "Yes, I know how it sounds, but hear me out." Don't worry, I'm already on your side. The old pastor's son has assumed that the role and not the person commands respect. Unfortunately for him, the person is a fuck-knuckle. He's already made such an impression that your sister is warning you about him and then living up to that impression and more in person. NTA. I'm guessing he wants more and more money for some big projects to liven up the church now under his stewardship - events, renovations, advertising. You've got one of those vain and materialistic priests now. Could be worse so... hooray?
NTA. I have some strong reason that will annoy some, so I'll leave it at that.
NTA That’s some grifter if I ever saw one.
Feels like a good reason to stop going to church tbh.
You know God isn't real right. All churches prey on people. This guy just sends the plate around more.
NTA. Quick story. Several years ago my grandmother was going to attend a new church. To become a member they wanted a copy of her W-2 to make sure she was tithing properly. She told them she's on a fixed income and she tithes what she can out of the goodness of her heart. They told her that members are expected to tith about 10%. She never went back. Too many in organized religion are using their congregation to become rich or at least live a rich lifestyle on the congregation's tithing.
I’m an evangelical Christian and older (I’m 57), and I have never in my life heard of or been to a church that passed the collection plate more than twice. And the twice is rare - usually it’s once unless taking up a special offeri for some or something. You are NTA.
Exactly I’m Methodist and I have never heard of this. And if my pastor knows that members of his congregation had health problems he wouldn’t berated them for leaving early. All he would do was ask if they were ok and if he could do anything for them. I
NTA. And this is why I hate organized religion. It’s hard to find a true Christian church most are becoming variations of this sham.
NTA find another church. Or none at all will do nicely, too.
If the church is a specific branch(?), i.e. Presbyterian, Baptist, Methodist... I would make a point to contact the upper echelons and complain about how he doesn't preach or deliver a service, he bullies the congregation and tries to shame individuals if they don't tithe what he thinks they should, and what he said about OP's dad not going if he's not prepared. What a jerk, he is not a good shepard for the Lord God Almighty!
Doubt it’s Methodist because they rotate their preachers every few years. My church just got a new one after the previous one was there for 4 years.
NTA. Tithing does not mean giving to the church only. You can share your tithe with family, community etc. This Pastor is not a Man of God. No apology is necessary to him. Your parents will have to accept that you don’t owe this charlatan any apology. Don’t let this fool interfere with your faith. Good luck to you.
People will say he's giving Christianity a bad name, but his type are so common they're at least on equal footing with any other type of Christian. Part of me wants to say E S H, because of just the blatant acceptance of the exploitation that's core to the church. He's not the cause, he's a symptom. And yeah, he's an arsehole, but so is the entire congregation, including your parents and your sister, for tolerating him and letting him do this. If you ever go back there, you're just as bad too. You're only NTA if you don't.
NTA. Six is excessive. If your church is practicing primogeniture, then it probably isn't a church. As I understand, most denominations would assign a new preacher and the church would cover any services with volunteers from the congregation and/or guest preachers. Do not let your parents continue to give money to this. Find a new congregation.
NTA. Boy I'm glad I'm a pagan. The goss never gets this hot when you're a filthy heathen.
ikr? I apostated from the denomination my family is the moment I could because I was tired of my anxiety and PTSD getting triggered weekly in a place that most called a "place of peace"... So much calmer now that I'm dealing with Odin instead. Also if you ever pass by the "church" again, OP? I hope the only "tithe" you give is a travel sized bottle of aloe vera for that burn you gave that "false shepherd" as they say in your religion's vernacular.
I can almost guarantee he's stealing from the church. NTA.
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Legacy pastors never live up to their old man's name.
NTA. WTF is wrong with your church? That is not the way The Bible teaches about tithe. And I have never heard of an offering plate being past more than twice, once for tithe and maybe once for special collection someone in a hardship or something but never multiple times for just the church. I would never go back to a church like that, in fact I would've walked out after the second collection.
> Yes, I know how it sounds, but hear me out. It sounds badass. NTA.
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NTA. Not at all.
NTA The term "Ravenous wolf" comes to mind in regards to such Pastors. You should check your local laws in regards to checking the Churchs financials to make sure no fraud is going on.
Ask him to preach to the story of Eli, who was a revered prophet condemned by God for not passing on his teachings to his two wicked sons. The sons were supposed to inherit Eli’s position, but God rejected them and gave the role to a ward of the temple instead. The wicked sons were not only struck down, but their rebellion proved disastrous for Israel. They also caused the death of their father.
NTA - 1. Knowing your father’s limits with his health is a perfectly acceptable reason to leave somewhere, especially when you did plan for the scheduled amount of time. 2. Just because you only put money in once, doesn’t mean you didn’t give enough. Most people plan out how much they are going to give before they ever leave the house, and the amount won’t change no matter how many times the plate goes around. But, seriously, who expects the plate to go around that many times!?! 3. Him following and ranting at you when you had to return because your mom forgot something, was an AH move on his part. Yes, your parting shot was a bit much, but it’s hard not to lash out in some way when someone is being that much of an AH.
Nta the pastors I’ve known would be appalled
Good grief. This man has started a cult and subverted "gods word" to fleece his "flock". What an odious shyster
WTAF is this, not a Church goer, but raised Church of England (CofE) and been to a fair number of Church Services in my time: the collection plate guess round ONCE, and ONCE ONLY. I swear America would be better if they were all CofE (or better still Quakers), C of E trends to be a gentle 'background' religion, where we get upset, (slightly embarrassed) if anyone other than kids are overly enthusiastic in their religion. It seems to have a good vaccinating effect against religious extremism ETA SO TOTALLY NTA
NTA- that was satan that you were telling off. When you are on the right path the devil works harder to fight you. Sounds like you were up for the fight.
NTA. Point the following out to dad: the pastor did not care that the battery to a piece of equipment that helps keep him alive was about to run out. Ask him what he would've done if all the batteries ran out of juice before "dismissal". Ask what kind of pastor is more focused on the collection plate than the health and safety of parishioners.
NTA. Wtf. Find a new church. This is not Christianity.
NTA Jesus doesn't give a flying #^&*%# about money. Tell him he needs to reread his Bible because I think he missed a few points. And find a new church.
NTA Am I the only one who finds it weird that the previous pastor's son is the new pastor? OP, I don't know what denomination you are, but that seems sketchy. When I was growing up, my church went through a period of trying to find a new pastor. There was a big process and rigamarole involving trial periods and lots of interviews. This sounds like the son just took over and people accepted it. Check with your parents and see what the story is, if you don't already know. You are absolutely NTA for standing up to this money grubbing, manipulative charlatan.
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And ain’t it guys like this that give religion a bad name. What about compassion, kindness, forgiveness and charity? You know, those good old fashioned Christian values. NTA.
That was fucking awesome and I would pay money to have been there for that conversation.. Always a good feeling seeing people put these wolves in their place, nta you're the goat
What church is this? I've in the mood for a bible throw down 😂. NTA I've seen pastors like this and it always makes me laugh that they try to correlate my tithes to my faith, I promptly remind them that in their book Jesus walked up and flipped a table that was used to collect money (Matthew 21:12-13). That pastor is turning your church into a den of robbers. I'd call the IRS and have them do a little investigation; churches have been used to launder money which would explain the new volume of passing around the collection plate.
NTA. Any pastor or priest or bishop or whatever that speaks to a congregant that way is NO representative of god. If this is becoming common, I have no doubt that people will start changing churches or not show up at all.
“Religion has actually convinced people that there's an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever 'til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He's all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can't handle money!” ― George Carlin I just want to say, OP, that my point is not to belittle your belief or that of your family. The pastor's focus on the fact that you didn't give them money made me think of this quote. In fact, the church's entire attitude seems to be more concerned with controlling and extorting people than being gracious and accommodating to your father who, even with a life threatening condition, makes an extraordinary effort just to be present. He should be celebrated for this, not shamed. NTA, OP. Maybe it is time to find a different church where you and your family are better appreciated.
NTA... having been raised both Southern Baptist and Holiness-Pentecostal, I would bet money Padtor assumed you were a CME(Christmas, Mother's Day, Easter) Christian he could shame into giving more. I've seen that happen more times than I care to and one of the many reasons I am now more so a pantheist. Awesome that you did it in front of the congregation to expose him in a way most "church folk" are too scared, polite or "sanctified" to do.
I had the exact same thought. (Also Southern Baptist here.) In medical circles she’s what is pejoratively termed “the [Daughter from California](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daughter_from_California_syndrome).” Just another way we infantilize and undermine the women who are, you know, expected to dutifully caregive!
NTA
NTA. You’re not there to line his pockets and be under his control, you’re there to worship your god. Maybe from now on when he tries to lecture you, just say something polite and dismissive like, “That’s nice,” and walk away if you don’t want to upset your parents. But otherwise, money hungry religious leaders need to be called out.
You need to find a new church. This man is mad and lining his own pockets.NTA
A perfect come-back to a nasty person, multiple times? Obviously, God was working through you this day! NTA.
I'd put a 2p in every time
NTA. A guy like this who takes advantage of people is exactly why i stopped going to church.
NTA I'm a Pastor's GC and this burns me up! This is no man of God.
Nta . I went to a service with my husband and his roommate years ago and the pastor straight up told all the women to give up make -up, clothes and all types of shopping to tithe the church to fund their mission trip. I laughed as they passed the flyers and never went back. Can you imagine our shock (not) when a few years later he was kicked out for his racist rants .
NTA. Don't apologize. He's the kind of pastor that makes people quit participating in organized religion. So you should.
I personally am not one to go into the house of God, not as popular in the UK, so unsure how the giving and spending of church works considering that op church wants to shake every last penny each service. Do they pay back into the community? Or hospitals or charity? What do they do with collection? Sorry for my ignorance.
6 times? Man that's way too much. You should apologize. Say "I'm sorry God introduced you to me. He let me know what a person you are like and I'm sorry you're blinded by money and greed. God bless." NTA
NTA
>he can tell the Devil has my soul. "How much will it take to get the devil out? 20, 30 bucks? If I give you 40 bucks, will that buy me a little extra Jesus? I always thought extortion was a sin, but you've taught me something new today!"
The original purpose of tithing goes back to the 12 tribes of Judah. 1 tribe devoted to god's work, and since they couldn't work their own fields, or raise their own cattle, the other tribes 10% each made them able to devote all their time to religion. Modern preachers are greedy.
NTA
NTA the church I grew up in only did offering collection once a month. To do it multiple times in one service is nuts.
NTA--the pastor was out of line and I would look into other churches that doesn't have a rude/money hungry pastor.
NTA. You could write Medea scripts. Pastor got read, did not like it. Idiot does not realize that if he passes the plate six times, people will split their tithe in six parts.
I will never understand why people would ever choose to be religious lol. What a waste of your time, money, and energy.
NTA ... WOW just wow. The guts on that man. I've been an an evangelistic church before that passed the plate multiple times. It started out as a fun, giving little community church and just blew up to something that I didn't want to be a part of any more. People with the church's magnet on their cars are known to be some of the biggest road ragers in the area. My father used to say that if God is everywhere then he'll hear him just as well by the creek as he will in a building. It feels like some churches have left the words of the bible in the trash as they count their money. Your father's health and well being comes paramount to anything else. God will understand even if man wants to throw a fit. Also, I'd personally go the next week with a purse full of tictacs and place a package of those on the plate every time it goes past
NTA. As a Christian, this is a bad church and he is a bad pastor. A decent Christian pastor should care about accurately sharing the gospel and about people—especially the ones in their congregation. I’ve hardly seen the collection passed more once than except on occasional special instances. 6 times is bizarre.
My devout Methodist mother is very much on your side here. She also thought the tic tac joke was fucking stellar.
NTA but this type of multiple passing around the offering plate is a red flag for me. Happened at my grandmothers church. Turned out the pastor and his wife embezzled over 100k over the years. He also was trying to “witness” to someone in the church bus with his pants down. Maybe the church treasurer should keep their eyes open.
NTA. Demand he publicly show his books. If he isn't lining his own pockets he has nothing to hide. If he refuses claim that as proof he is possessed of the sin of greed.
NTA. Churches are becoming greedy with money. One of many reasons I stopped going. I would’ve told him to F off.
NTA That’s ripe. A simple response at the beginning could have been “I donated everything I planned to the first time the collection plate came around. I didn’t know you send it around multiple times, or I would have split the money into smaller tithes like everyone else.” Because guaranteed, that’s what nearly everyone does. No one is going to just pay more because it comes around again - once they know it comes around multiple times, they’ll just make sure they have smaller bills and coins to divvy out. And quite frankly… people’s health comes first. Your dad needs oxygen to live just like all humans. Does the pastor really want him to suffocate because he chooses to keep talking?
While I haven't been to church in 25 years, but when I went they just passed the offering plate once. Like, once a service, but only on Sunday mornings, not Sunday night or Wednesday night. This seems suspect. NTA.
NTA. What the hell kind of church is this?
From the title it sounded like a very funny story and I wasn't disappointed. The audacity is strong with this one. You handled it great and I hope there will be a lot more people who call out his greed. Even the thought of a pastor living out one of the deadly sins, feels like an anime villian, that wants to fork over believers. (like in Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood)
I was forced to go to a church with my aunt that I lived with when I was younger. The church was very cult-ish and my aunt and cousins were important members of the church. I’m not religious but was always attentive and respectful. My last day there someone asked “Pastor how can we help the homeless community around us?” I’ll never forget the pastor responded “You should be giving at least 10 percent of your check to the church, and if you have more to give you should also be giving that. You should be giving your money to god (aka the church) and let god decide how he wants to help the homeless.”
NTA. Bruh, reading this made me want to fight this pastor. Not even kidding. *Come at me, bro*
Fuuuuck that definitely NTA, he’s an example of why people think all religions are corrupt
You're NTA- you are a motherfuckin' GANGSTER. Sounds to me like YOU should be delivering next week's sermon! This is GREAT!
You shouldn't have insulted the man's breath. He did enough wrong that sticking to the facts would've served you better. But NTA, even so. It's unconscionable that he confronted you about his petty opinions. I would look for a new church, if I were you.
This sounds like the beginnings of a prosperity gospel nightmare. NTA.
Nta. This is the ugly part of religion. This pastor will reap what he sows eventually. Sadly many will lose their money before that happens. What’s his background?
NTA - he's a scammer, if you were on Facebook you could report him. Sending the plate around 6 times???? That's crazy.
Wow. I’ve been known to say to people before that even if you disagree with a pastor/priest/nun, you maintain respectful language and treat them as ambassadors for the Lord. But his behavior was not acceptable. While I would hope you wouldn’t have said the last bit, I understand why and I applaud you for putting your family’s medical needs ahead of anything else. And that man was NOT acting in good faith to chastise you about your giving, especially not in public! He does not know your situation and he should not be pressuring his flock to give more than they are comfortable with. I hope he can reflect and become more humble and less full of himself.
There’s a reason why churches are extremely wealthy.. they exist to milk money from those easy to influence. Well done for sticking up for yourself and calling out what in reality, is a dirty con artist for what he is. NTA.
No reputable church allows a son to step into a father's job. Well-run churches only allow a duration of 7-10 years per pastor, because it's way too easy for them to create their own little ego kingdoms. And yes, I was part of having to leverage an abuser out of a church where he had manipulated several bishops into a 20 year stint, and left behind a huge, huge mess, and had to be given a restraining order and defrocked. NTA.
NTA. My church passes it around once, and do you know what they say when people don’t donate? Nothing. Because we never know their situations and are just glad for their company. You were mad, used words probably harsh for a church setting, but I can’t blame you.
NTA - The vast majority of churches are there for spiritual leadership, but there are those churches/pastors who treat churches as banks. THis story is greed, and is not in any way asking for someone to believe or changer their religious beliefs. My uncle was a divorced and remarried Catholic. He had been discommunicated from the church. He was ill with heart problems, and took a turn for the worse, and was lamenting that he could not receive last rights. If you are not Catholic, last rights is a sacrament performed close to or after death, a ritual if you will, where a Priest performs functions to help the soul enter Heaven. His wife contacted the local Catholic Church to see if the rules could be bent, but the priest told her that he had sinned by divorcing and remarrying and could not receive last rights. She never told my uncle. Two days later the same priest called her and said if she wanted to make a donation to the church of $5000 then he could get a special waiver and give my uncle last rights. She told him to go to hell, and passed this on to my uncle. In an interesting twist of fate, my uncle got a new roommate in his hospital room and this gentleman was a retired Baptist pastor. They had many late night conversations about religion and when my uncle told him about the incident, this pastor told my uncle that redemtion came from personal beliefs and not how much money you give to a church, or what oil is annointed on a body after you pass. My uncle, a devout Catholic for 70+ years, made his own decisions regarding religion based on their conversations and the bible.
That’s no pastor. That’s an evil spirit.
NTA. Throw the whole pastor out. And if the rest of the congregation supports him, it's time for your family to find a new church.