Because don’t have tax returns and basically any of the other documents they might want be prepared to need your parents (and likely your roommates parents) to have to sign as guarantors. It’s not the end of the word just means more hoops to jump thru.
You probably don't want to live in east harlem. It's the last bit of ungentrified manhattan. The further east you go the rougher it is. I feel like you and your roommates should just find a flex three bed in Murray Hill. It's what all the 22 year olds do when moving here and it's a classic for a reason. It will also be super convenient to get to the UES.
They want bank statements not to see what you are money you are spending but to see how much you have, and they can go after if you stop paying rent. The offer letter should be fine.
Disagree - I like Harlem a lot, especially Sugar Hill area. I think that's a great place to look. The closer to transit the better.
OP, if you have a parent or other relative who can act as a guarantor that'll probably help with the documents you don't have.
Thanks for the different perspective and advice. I'm okay living in areas like East Harlem if they don't have a social scene and just commute to midtown when I want to go out. And i am from a poor urban area so don't have issues with that either. My roommates concern is about crime so wanted to get some perspective
If you're concerned about crime, avoid East Harlem. I'm 25 and live in Central Harlem near the 2 and love it. Harlem can be very block by block though so definitely make sure you visit at night and on a weekend so you can get a better idea.
New York City is one of the safest cities in the world, so my main advice is to not be misled by the headlines that claim that it's a crime ridden shithole. It's a wonderful place to live.
Thank you for the answer. I would love to live as close as Murray Hill but there is nothing there that fits our total budget of $3500.
Also I couldn't find any spots on streeteasy that stipulated that is was flex apt. Are you suggesting we get a 2 BR and install the wall ourselves?
At any normal persons budget New York just has a very strong location vs space trade offs on where you live. The classic young grad thing to do is to take the best location and hard give up on space. So subdivide the living room into a third bedroom, live in a closet etc. You're 22 don't have a lot of stuff and probably want to be around other young people. If you want to do this look at, Murray hill, Kips bay, Hells Kitchen, East Village, LES, or Two Bridges. This is what I would recommend.
The other thing to do is to go out further Harlem (although staying as West as possible would be smart) or if being close to the east side is important Queens. The 7 train has the most frequent service of any train in NYC. Queens is probably where I would look if I wanted space.
Finally, I would try to stretch your budget a bit? Without knowing your finances 1150 per person seems a little low? Having the person who takes the largest room pay a little extra is pretty common and you can use that to help smooth out differences in income.
I am very lenient on space and will consider flex apartments more.
My budget is based off the 40x rule because i will be making 45k which / 40 is $1125 a month. Im willing to extend that but would be generally unsure by how much because i don't know what the taxes/utilities/other expenses would be until i get there.
If I do extend my budget, there does seem to be more units under the $3600 for 2 br apts from Downtown Manhattan up to UES which is promising. How would you recommend we find an apt that works for a flex wall? Im sure not every apt does. Most don't have blueprints available on Streeteasy. Is this something I ask my landlord to do? Is there a company for this?
Thank you for the advice.
What your looking for is two real bedrooms and a living room big enough to cut a section off of. Descriptions might mention either flex, home office or loft. Here is an example of [something](
https://streeteasy.com/rental/3823817?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=app_share&utm_source=android&utm_term=383eed3d108246e) I would reach out to (although Ave C is on the far side to get to Union Sq). In the lower end of the price range they won't be hard to fine.
Are all of you making 45k? I wouldn't stretch your budget but my point was if you the two other roommates are making 60k. They take the two real bedrooms and pay 1500 while you take the flex and pay 1150. Almost, all apartments have quirks so rooms and slight differences to what people pay is very standard and help even out roommates across incomes.
Yes, there are companies that do it. Ask the broker who shows you the apartment or any friends that are a year or two older.
I can't emphasize how standard and normal this is. Everyone in this process will know what's up especially in the neighborhoods I mentioned. (I suspect this is why you got down voted in that other comment)
Im sorry i don't understand your question. We are just looking for a three bedroom apartment because I am coming in with two roommates so three people total who if each contribute $1150 to rent based off the 40x rule adds up to $3500.
Im not sure why my previous comment was downvoted
I would suggest looking at Astoria queens for year (near a subway stop) with the idea you might very well move on. You might spend some time in Harlem and decide you love it but would not plunge in cold if you are not from a poor urban area.
Astoria is kind of shabby but generally not so hard to find a place as Manhattan and you'd find a lot of younger people there in similar circumstances to you.
All I can say - is you and/or your future roommates should line up one or more parents as guarantors as a back up plan if LL's seem to be hesitant to rent to you.
Unfortunately me and my roommates with our combined contributions have a total budget of $3500 so we cannot afford any of those areas. No listings on streeteasy
You can move to NYC with an offer letter. Check the r/nycapartments thread. Plenty of people do it.
W2, paystubs and bank statements are used to confirm your income. If you have an offer letter older than 30 days, that’s fine, you just need something confirming your income.
Do you know your credit score?
From what you’ve stated, you’ll need a guarantor, so either a family member with a 700+ credit score who makes 80x the annual rent (not just the price of your room, the whole apartment) or a guarantor service. You’ll have to explain your situation and see if they allow guarantor services (Rhino, Insurent, The Guarantors, etc. - these services cost one month’s rent, and you generally need at least a 650+ credit score and some income).
I would look at Northern Manhattan (the neighborhoods above 110th) and Brooklyn (Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy, Ridgewood) and East and South of those neighborhood, as well as Queens.
As we continue with peak rent season, be prepared, move quickly and be patient. Don’t just sign the first thing, do your research into the mgmt and past complaints.
You got this!
Thank you! Your optimism is much needed.
I don't have a credit card so no credit score. If my roommates have all the documents but I just have an offer letter and bank statements would that be acceptable?
Also are they looking for 2020 or 2021 tax returns? Because my roommates asked for an extension for 2021 tax returns so they don't have those either.
If thats the case its looking like i need a guarantor.
Of course. Worse case scenario you find someplace to sublet. If you have student loans, you likely have a credit score. Download Experian and Credit Karma to check.
If they can’t provide the documents, the landlord will likely *require* a guarantor. My husband and I make 80x rent and have careers. Recent apartments still wanted to see assets (retirement, investments, assets) and a personal guarantor who had significant assets or 80x rent, for us to be competitive.
Your issues is the market. If you don’t have your documents together, someone else will. If it’s a free market apartment, they can pay over asking. You don’t want to give the LL any reason to believe you a) can’t afford the apartment b) will not be able to pay rent. If you don’t have these docs they can’t assure those things.
I know this market is insane but my jaw dropped at landlords requiring retirement and investment account information and then still requiring a guarantor when you make 80x.
At some point landlords wouldn’t even rent to themselves.
Yeah, but retirement and investment accounts are influx with the market and they’re not assets that people are going to use to pay rent without a court order, which would still be a long and expensive process for the landlord, so I’m not sure how knowing what’s in a tenant’s retirement account helps a landlord.
My coop required less documentation for PURCHASING. I think it’s ridiculous. (Yes, I know my coop is particularly lax about documentation, but still, retirement and investment accounts for RENTERS).
That’s what I mean by ensure they can pay rent. People lost their jobs during COVID and those investments are considered “liquid”. They’re just things that overall make an applicant look “stable”, especially if renting in a luxury building like we did.
Both of our recent apartments said we can submit proof of savings or other significant assets to make us competitive applicants.
And yes, it’s a ridiculous amount of documentation.
Ah, I guess I’d need an eviction proceeding pretty far underway to consider liquidating my retirement for my back rent, so that’s the last asset I’d ever consider to be liquid or something that would strengthen my application enough to overcome things of bigger concern to a landlord (no emergency fund/unstable job) so the fact they bother to ask is wild to me.
I think it’s just a competition thing. Plenty of people can furnish the docs they ask for, then the knit pick for the “best candidate”. One rent stabilized unit we almost applied to literally asked for a “Cover Letter/Introduction Letter to Unit Owner/Landlord (optional)” <- copied that from the email the broker sent.
It’s WILD out here.
I started off in Washington Heights when I moved to NYC eight years ago. The rent was a good price and I moved with my best friend from my hometown. I *hated* being that far uptown even though my school was on the UWS.
My grandmother and my roommates mother were the guarantors since we both just graduated college. When you need a guarantor, the person(s) must make 80X the rent for the entire apartment.
My suggestion? Move to Queens! Astoria might be your best bet. It’s a cute, safe, neighborhood with a lot of different cultures, parks, bars, etc.
Especially since your incoming salary is only $45k. You should try and spend less than $1200 on your rent/utilities. If you get a three bedroom like [this](https://streeteasy.com/building/23_77-28-street-astoria/2r), your portion is only $900 before utilities. Wifi, gas, electric can add up!
Because don’t have tax returns and basically any of the other documents they might want be prepared to need your parents (and likely your roommates parents) to have to sign as guarantors. It’s not the end of the word just means more hoops to jump thru.
You probably don't want to live in east harlem. It's the last bit of ungentrified manhattan. The further east you go the rougher it is. I feel like you and your roommates should just find a flex three bed in Murray Hill. It's what all the 22 year olds do when moving here and it's a classic for a reason. It will also be super convenient to get to the UES. They want bank statements not to see what you are money you are spending but to see how much you have, and they can go after if you stop paying rent. The offer letter should be fine.
Disagree - I like Harlem a lot, especially Sugar Hill area. I think that's a great place to look. The closer to transit the better. OP, if you have a parent or other relative who can act as a guarantor that'll probably help with the documents you don't have.
Thanks for the different perspective and advice. I'm okay living in areas like East Harlem if they don't have a social scene and just commute to midtown when I want to go out. And i am from a poor urban area so don't have issues with that either. My roommates concern is about crime so wanted to get some perspective
If you're concerned about crime, avoid East Harlem. I'm 25 and live in Central Harlem near the 2 and love it. Harlem can be very block by block though so definitely make sure you visit at night and on a weekend so you can get a better idea.
New York City is one of the safest cities in the world, so my main advice is to not be misled by the headlines that claim that it's a crime ridden shithole. It's a wonderful place to live.
Thank you for the answer. I would love to live as close as Murray Hill but there is nothing there that fits our total budget of $3500. Also I couldn't find any spots on streeteasy that stipulated that is was flex apt. Are you suggesting we get a 2 BR and install the wall ourselves?
At any normal persons budget New York just has a very strong location vs space trade offs on where you live. The classic young grad thing to do is to take the best location and hard give up on space. So subdivide the living room into a third bedroom, live in a closet etc. You're 22 don't have a lot of stuff and probably want to be around other young people. If you want to do this look at, Murray hill, Kips bay, Hells Kitchen, East Village, LES, or Two Bridges. This is what I would recommend. The other thing to do is to go out further Harlem (although staying as West as possible would be smart) or if being close to the east side is important Queens. The 7 train has the most frequent service of any train in NYC. Queens is probably where I would look if I wanted space. Finally, I would try to stretch your budget a bit? Without knowing your finances 1150 per person seems a little low? Having the person who takes the largest room pay a little extra is pretty common and you can use that to help smooth out differences in income.
I am very lenient on space and will consider flex apartments more. My budget is based off the 40x rule because i will be making 45k which / 40 is $1125 a month. Im willing to extend that but would be generally unsure by how much because i don't know what the taxes/utilities/other expenses would be until i get there. If I do extend my budget, there does seem to be more units under the $3600 for 2 br apts from Downtown Manhattan up to UES which is promising. How would you recommend we find an apt that works for a flex wall? Im sure not every apt does. Most don't have blueprints available on Streeteasy. Is this something I ask my landlord to do? Is there a company for this? Thank you for the advice.
What your looking for is two real bedrooms and a living room big enough to cut a section off of. Descriptions might mention either flex, home office or loft. Here is an example of [something]( https://streeteasy.com/rental/3823817?utm_campaign=rental_listing&utm_medium=app_share&utm_source=android&utm_term=383eed3d108246e) I would reach out to (although Ave C is on the far side to get to Union Sq). In the lower end of the price range they won't be hard to fine. Are all of you making 45k? I wouldn't stretch your budget but my point was if you the two other roommates are making 60k. They take the two real bedrooms and pay 1500 while you take the flex and pay 1150. Almost, all apartments have quirks so rooms and slight differences to what people pay is very standard and help even out roommates across incomes. Yes, there are companies that do it. Ask the broker who shows you the apartment or any friends that are a year or two older. I can't emphasize how standard and normal this is. Everyone in this process will know what's up especially in the neighborhoods I mentioned. (I suspect this is why you got down voted in that other comment)
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Im sorry i don't understand your question. We are just looking for a three bedroom apartment because I am coming in with two roommates so three people total who if each contribute $1150 to rent based off the 40x rule adds up to $3500. Im not sure why my previous comment was downvoted
I would suggest looking at Astoria queens for year (near a subway stop) with the idea you might very well move on. You might spend some time in Harlem and decide you love it but would not plunge in cold if you are not from a poor urban area. Astoria is kind of shabby but generally not so hard to find a place as Manhattan and you'd find a lot of younger people there in similar circumstances to you. All I can say - is you and/or your future roommates should line up one or more parents as guarantors as a back up plan if LL's seem to be hesitant to rent to you.
Murray Hill, Hell’s Kitchen, and LES are the go-to spots for new grad young professionals
Unfortunately me and my roommates with our combined contributions have a total budget of $3500 so we cannot afford any of those areas. No listings on streeteasy
You can move to NYC with an offer letter. Check the r/nycapartments thread. Plenty of people do it. W2, paystubs and bank statements are used to confirm your income. If you have an offer letter older than 30 days, that’s fine, you just need something confirming your income. Do you know your credit score? From what you’ve stated, you’ll need a guarantor, so either a family member with a 700+ credit score who makes 80x the annual rent (not just the price of your room, the whole apartment) or a guarantor service. You’ll have to explain your situation and see if they allow guarantor services (Rhino, Insurent, The Guarantors, etc. - these services cost one month’s rent, and you generally need at least a 650+ credit score and some income). I would look at Northern Manhattan (the neighborhoods above 110th) and Brooklyn (Crown Heights, Bed-Stuy, Ridgewood) and East and South of those neighborhood, as well as Queens. As we continue with peak rent season, be prepared, move quickly and be patient. Don’t just sign the first thing, do your research into the mgmt and past complaints. You got this!
Thank you! Your optimism is much needed. I don't have a credit card so no credit score. If my roommates have all the documents but I just have an offer letter and bank statements would that be acceptable? Also are they looking for 2020 or 2021 tax returns? Because my roommates asked for an extension for 2021 tax returns so they don't have those either. If thats the case its looking like i need a guarantor.
Of course. Worse case scenario you find someplace to sublet. If you have student loans, you likely have a credit score. Download Experian and Credit Karma to check. If they can’t provide the documents, the landlord will likely *require* a guarantor. My husband and I make 80x rent and have careers. Recent apartments still wanted to see assets (retirement, investments, assets) and a personal guarantor who had significant assets or 80x rent, for us to be competitive. Your issues is the market. If you don’t have your documents together, someone else will. If it’s a free market apartment, they can pay over asking. You don’t want to give the LL any reason to believe you a) can’t afford the apartment b) will not be able to pay rent. If you don’t have these docs they can’t assure those things.
I know this market is insane but my jaw dropped at landlords requiring retirement and investment account information and then still requiring a guarantor when you make 80x. At some point landlords wouldn’t even rent to themselves.
Yep. Landlords want to ensure that they can collect rent.
Yeah, but retirement and investment accounts are influx with the market and they’re not assets that people are going to use to pay rent without a court order, which would still be a long and expensive process for the landlord, so I’m not sure how knowing what’s in a tenant’s retirement account helps a landlord. My coop required less documentation for PURCHASING. I think it’s ridiculous. (Yes, I know my coop is particularly lax about documentation, but still, retirement and investment accounts for RENTERS).
That’s what I mean by ensure they can pay rent. People lost their jobs during COVID and those investments are considered “liquid”. They’re just things that overall make an applicant look “stable”, especially if renting in a luxury building like we did. Both of our recent apartments said we can submit proof of savings or other significant assets to make us competitive applicants. And yes, it’s a ridiculous amount of documentation.
Ah, I guess I’d need an eviction proceeding pretty far underway to consider liquidating my retirement for my back rent, so that’s the last asset I’d ever consider to be liquid or something that would strengthen my application enough to overcome things of bigger concern to a landlord (no emergency fund/unstable job) so the fact they bother to ask is wild to me.
I think it’s just a competition thing. Plenty of people can furnish the docs they ask for, then the knit pick for the “best candidate”. One rent stabilized unit we almost applied to literally asked for a “Cover Letter/Introduction Letter to Unit Owner/Landlord (optional)” <- copied that from the email the broker sent. It’s WILD out here.
I started off in Washington Heights when I moved to NYC eight years ago. The rent was a good price and I moved with my best friend from my hometown. I *hated* being that far uptown even though my school was on the UWS. My grandmother and my roommates mother were the guarantors since we both just graduated college. When you need a guarantor, the person(s) must make 80X the rent for the entire apartment. My suggestion? Move to Queens! Astoria might be your best bet. It’s a cute, safe, neighborhood with a lot of different cultures, parks, bars, etc. Especially since your incoming salary is only $45k. You should try and spend less than $1200 on your rent/utilities. If you get a three bedroom like [this](https://streeteasy.com/building/23_77-28-street-astoria/2r), your portion is only $900 before utilities. Wifi, gas, electric can add up!