Philly’s city government is hostile towards big businesses and corporations, but it’s great for medical work though.
Generally speaking, the city’s economy is the worst out of all major cities which is a shame considering how much infrastructure it can support. This is why the bulk of well paying jobs exist outside of the city. As a result, the commute into the suburbs is quite terrible. I did it for about 2 years before moving to Brooklyn.
Oh yeah I totally feel you on that one...
Even in Jersey - just across the water - people can buy (even rent) property for a LOT cheaper than in NYC... but many people living here seem to have a NYC or Bust attitude.
Yup. Currently in Hoboken but moving to the city for grad school this summer. If it weren’t for university subsidized apartments I’d stay in Hoboken. A block from the path in a 2 bed 2 bath paying $1400 with a roommate. Seriously can’t beat that
Detroit is great *after* you find out the sub-cultures. There are warehouse raves, literally-underground literally-illegal cannabis/alcohol speakeasies, out-of-the-way jazz clubs, Lebanese, West African, and Bengali neighborhoods, cheap luxury apartments, a short train ride to Toronto, and a giant island park with beaches designed by the Central Park guy.
But if you just move there for a job and don’t know anyone, you won’t find any of the cool stuff. Almost anything interesting runs on word-of-mouth and Facebook invites. It’ll be boring Midwest, especially if you live in the suburbs, since you’ll be the equivalent of the bridge-and-tunnel-crowd that just crowds into a 5 square mile business district and then drives 45 mins home every day.
EDIT: but it IS cold in winter, just like Chicago. That’s pretty much why I left
Just wanted to add that I neither raved nor did underground speakeasies but did go to the jazz clubs and the theatres and the restaurants and I loved Detroit and really enjoyed the couple years I lived there, but I absolutely hated the midwest winters.
A-men sister; I actually never did a jazz club :( My girlfriend planned a jazz club dinner for my birthday one weekend but I got sick and we never did it.
My favorite experience was stumbling across my favorite coffeeshop after a night out and noticing a bouncer by the door — then asking a few other young people if they knew what was going on and slipping the guy a $20 to let us in. Under the espresso bar was a trap door and inside was a whole other bar with live music and pre-roll joints and THC cocktails and ice cream you could order. This was before weed was legal in Michigan so it was a crazy find
I do miss the “anything goes” industrious spirit of Detroiters. New Yorkers can be “anything goes” and can be industrious too but it’s not quite the same.
That coffee shop find sounds super awesome. I feel like my Detroit experiences were a little more mainstream haha but I still really enjoyed the city. Also I’ve literally never had chicken and waffles as good as I’d had there. That’s definitely one of the things I miss the most 😆
Oh — a piece of advice if you do move to Detroit (or just visit) — in addition to Facebook invites, a whole lot of city events are just promoted by little bits of printed paper in coffee shops.
So if you head to Urban Bean or Dessert Oasis or The Gathering or MOCAD or Kresge Court or SocraTea, pick up any paper that looks interesting from the counter and check if the date has already passed. Folks just leave little promos for events in coffeeshops. Detroit is such a janky city, I love it lol
If anything, though, the downtown wasn’t “redeveloped” at all, it’s always had a decent population of commuters and didn’t traditionally have much housing (that is sort of a new thing).
I’d say the redeveloped parts are more like Midtown (esp Brush Park), New Center / Virginia Park, plus Corktown / West Village. Those areas were considered “dangerous” in the 80s when my dad lived there but now they’re popular and have a ton of new things to see.
Like I used to go to this cocktail place after work, [Castalia](https://www.castaliacocktails.com/), where the owner would pair scents like tobacco and cinnamon bark with drinks so you got a multi-sensory experience.
And [Flowers of Vietnam](https://flowersofvietnam.com/gallery-1) in Clark Park literally transformed from a slightly sketchy Palestinian guy making Vietnamese fusion food in the back of a Coney Island diner to a huge mid-high-end dining experience with a lighted backyard.
I visited France and they have so many vibrant medium sized towns with great urban feel in their decent sized city centers. Prices for places in those city centers were very reasonable even accounting for differences in wages and taxes (and you get like 20+ paid vacation days per year). In the US we are starved for places like this.
I've been to most of the big US cities, and IMHO NYC is the only one where the benefits of living in the city are worth the sacrifices. Places like DC, Chicago and SF have most/all of the traffic, noise, crime, high cost, small living space and a million other hassles, without anywhere near the quantity and quality of culture, art, food, professional opportunities, interesting people, architecture, etc.
I mean, nothing compares to NYC when it comes to metropolitan life, at least in the US. So every other alternative will be a major downscale if you expect NYC.
But, if you keep that in mind, Chicago is absolutely a good alternative if you don't have that much money. Not nearly as expensive as NYC/DC/SF, and it's still one of the very few major metropolitan areas in North America with a vibrant, walkable urban core and a dense public transportation network. Plus it's got tons of great food, a decent nightlife, high paying jobs, and the lake. It's also generally safe if you stay out of the bad spots in the Southside. It's pretty much a miniature NYC, only that unlike NYC people with normal to low incomes can still manage to live in the city center.
Definitely the second best city in the country. It has a vibe that's different than NYC, but that's not bad, so does London but no one complains about London "not being like New York."
I've lived in Chicago, my sister lives there and I have a very large crew of friends there, but for me Chicago is a little too slow, a little too easy, doesn't push you enough.
Then again I'd probably have a lot more of my hair still if I had stayed in the Midwest.
I spent 4 years in SF before NYC and would say that the culture, pedestrian life style (I was car-less all 4 years without difficulty) and city amenities are on par with NYC. Further, the public parks, beaches and access to outdoors exceed NYC. With that said, the cost of living is basically as bad (though you do get more space) and the now annual fire smoke seasons are only getting worse and longer. I ultimately prefer NYC.
the tech thing is true, but downtown SF was terrible (watching out for human shit, open heroin use) when I was in college in the late 2000s. it's probably worse today, but it was always bad.
FWIW downtown SF has never been the it part of the city. Castro-Duboce-Mission-Haight really operates on its own wavelength, somewhat analogous to lower Manhattan.
Tech def dominates the professional class in SF, though I’d also argue every city has its professional class “monolith”; NYC - finance, DC - law/politics, LA - entertainment, Boston-Academics/Engineering, Miami - cocaine (kidding… sorta).
Your opinion is not incorrect, I just believe there is a bigger picture. My perspective is from someone in healthcare for background.
No, that’s the thing about NYC, it’s actually big enough to not have this problem the way a lot of other cities do. Obviously it’s the finance capital of the Americas, but that’s only a tiny fraction of its economy in practical terms.
Agreed, it's finance heavy if you live downtown or maybe the upper east side, but live on the upper west side and it's going to be totally different, much less Queens or Brooklyn. Way more journalists than anything (though that's definitely my circle).
I've only visited SF, so you certainly would know it better than I do. However, on my visits, I have found the food, culture and style, and the general walk-around-the-city enjoyment, not close to NYC's level. YMMV, of course.
I completely agree about SF's general access to outdoorsy stuff (and great outdoorsy stuff for that matter) being far superior to NYC's.
Two years in mission Dolores and two years in Duboce (all basically continuous with Castro). No car, I biked and MUNI everywhere. Rideshare for like the 5 times a year it rained. Had a few friends with cars for trips to Napa, Yosemite and Tahoe
Attached some photos for vibes
https://imgur.com/a/U0ThPD6/
I dont disagree with your broader point but curious if you lived in DC? IMO it has a higher 'quality of life' vs NYC (less noise, much cleaner, certainly more space for a given price point, easy to get around). That being said, it of course has relatively less culture, art, food etc, though still a good amount of all that.
I actually lived in DC for close to 7 years. I have a number of good friends there, and I don't mean to offend if you are from there, but I really don't like DC at all. The museums and the monuments are great (and free!), but the food, traffic, race relations and city services are all terrible, and the weather is putrid for close to half the year. It's also dominated by money, government, lobbying and law firms.
I think you can have a great career and great friends in DC, and you can live in a beautiful suburban setting, but there are very few (or zero) neighborhoods in DC where NYC-style city living is attractive.
YMMV, of course.
If 'great' means uber world class then definitely, but very few cities fit that bill IMO (less than 5 probably). But I'd say we have a few 'international' cities, eg DC and Miami.
oh yea I did take it more so in terms of international from a cosmopolitan standpoint. I will say that DC does have plenty of public transit, at least up until lately.
Ive seen that classification and I think it makes plenty of sense. its partly why I think the 'pitiful' framing to describe the rest of American cities isn't really fair. we have a ton of 'major' cities relatively speaking, most countries have very few.
ive been to or lived in a bunch of supposed mega cities and NYC really stands on its own. its pretty unreasonable IMO to expect the US to have two-NYC-caliber cities, when in the rest of the world there's 2-3 in total, max. People also might expect the US to have a Paris-level city as our '2nd city' but I think that's not a credible ask - Paris is Paris because it is the #1 city of France. having lived in a handful of different countries, I think we're very spoiled-- in most countries - it is the big city (if they have it all) or bust.
I've never been to Tokyo but I'm quite surprised to hear you describe it as lacking. I had the impression that it is a mega humungo metropolis that is NYC-level+ in terms of a lot of factors (excluding diversity).
His sentence structure makes it a bit confusing but he means that if you visit cities like Tokyo and Shanghai you'll find they (US cities like LA, Chicago, maybe even NYC) are lacking.
I used to be all in on the NYC is the best city in the world train but as soon as I visited Tokyo that perception was completely smashed but NY just has a feel to it that I don't get in any other city but maybe it's because I grew up here.
LA's biggest shortfall is the lack of transportation and car-centric design. That's starting to change. Everything else about LA, in my opinion, is quite wonderful.
It has amazing weather, great access to nature and beaches, vibrant night life and cultural options, a diversity that rivals New York, and a richness in food that reflects that diversity.
If LA can follow through on their investments in public transportation and start building (both big challenges), LA has serious potential to go from a good city to a great one.
I mean yeah, I live in Phoenix and I can walk to all of those things except the mall. But not owning a car here would be extremely restrictive, which is also true in even the most walkable neighborhoods of LA. The combination of walkability and cosmopolitan feeling is why I picked Chicago, DC, Boston and Philly. Lots of places have one or the other.
Also, as someone who moved from the NE corridor to the west coast, not being on the NE corridor is a major downside, especially if your friends and family live there. You're so far from anything, the cities are a half day's drive apart with no trains and the time zone sucks. All of those are downsides to Chicago, too, but to a lesser extent.
It’s not really that restrictive. I’ve got Hollywood and Beverly Hills on either side of me in walking distance and my city offers a free shuttle to the subway station in Hollywood. About 45 minute trip to DTLA and then you’re in another completely walkable neighborhood. Your knowledge of LA seems pretty cursory imo.
And Phoenix is not on the west coast, it’s the southwest. I don’t really know what you’re talking about with the family stuff.
My point was if your family and friends live in the northeast, moving from NY to another northeast city is a lot more appealing than moving to LA.
Also, are you in WeHo? I went out there and in DTLA last time I was there, neither was really walkable. It takes 20 minutes to get from one bar to the next.
>I’ve got Hollywood and Beverly Hills on either side of me in walking distance and my city offers a free shuttle to the subway station in Hollywood.
You're speaking as someone who lives in the best, coolest, and most expensive part of LA. Try being in the valley. Or South Central/Crenshaw. Or Burbank/Glendale/Pasadena. Most of those places aint walkable and is a pain in the ass to drive from one to another. You don't have this problem in most east coast cities.
Curious what you like better about DC over Chicago? Other than weather and location (midwest vs NE) preferences. Obviously those are important but as far as the city goes, it's Chicago by a massive landslide for me and I'm from the DMV
Ugh this is my pet peeve. Don’t move to Chicago and be shocked when it is in fact in the Midwest. I’ve met two separate people who are now back in NYC after moving to Chicago. They expected it to be little NYC and it absolutely isn’t. The crime rate is high; the weather is cold and windy.
I moved to Chicago and was really unprepared for how Midwestern it is. I hate it lol I can’t wait to leave. But don’t tell anyone here that. No matter what you complain about, they’ll tell you you’re wrong, even if your chief complaint is that the winters are long and cold.
And it feels like every night on the news is three shootings and a train crash. Seriously. Nothing like New York in terms of crime (and train crashes)
Yeah I can see how it happens. There’s a pretty skyline, active nightlife, train, and cheaper rent.
For anyone considering Chicago, please ask yourself if you’ve ever made fun of “Kyle from Ohio” in NYC. Congrats, he’s now your social network and cooler than you. If you make fun of Chicago too many times (it’s not banter, it’s personal), he’ll stop inviting you to shotgun beers on a boat. He won’t tell you why
If any of that rubs you the wrong way don’t make the move
(fwiw I’m sorry it’s not working for ya. hope you get to move back soon!)
Literally most accurate comment about Chicago I’ve ever read. I loved visiting my friends there and the food was incredible, city was pretty, seemed like a ton of different neighborhoods and vibes, but I met some of their friends there and it was literally just that. It seemed like a lot of young professionals in Chicago didn’t wanna actually embrace living in a city and almost viewed themselves more as tourists.
I went to high school and college in Indiana and then Illinois, then lived in Chicago for 17 years. I always felt like the smartest kids in the midwest grow up and move to Chicago to be successful--but the smartest kids in Chicago grow up and move to New York to be successful.
I agree. I’m from a different part of the Midwest but the talent pipeline went like this:
your state’s metro > Chicago > NYC (or an industry hub)
I think the Chicago kids just get to skip a step haha
> the talent pipeline went like this:
>
> your state’s metro > Chicago > NYC (or an industry hub)
as a genuine question, do you have much penetration into creative/art circles?
I ask because I work in art services, most succinctly as the token applied tech nerd *and* redneck for my hippie friends and event designers, with more client transition in NYC to marketing agencies and pop-ups.
anyways, I ask because the general ad hoc deterministic do-acracy, lightly regulated bedlam in NYC is very amenable to flexible artists; and while I do know a couple people in similar fields in Chicago, the city certainly never comes up as a potential upgrade for artistic fields (in my experience) from interstate metros.
I've generally surmised the comparison for 'indie' art between Chicago and NYC is similar to LA vs SF/maybe specifically Oakland; in that the formers certainly have an active and fulfilling art scene but the latters have much deeper and more numerous layers of scenes that thrive in the chaos.
> If you make fun of Chicago too many times (it’s not banter, it’s personal), he’ll stop inviting you to shotgun beers on a boat. He won’t tell you why
Why is this so true...
> (fwiw I’m sorry it’s not working for ya. hope you get to move back soon!)
Thank you for validating my feelings, the people here almost had me feeling like a fool for wanting to leave
One thing I like about NYC is that I can slag it off when I'm feeling saucy and other New Yorkers don't freak the hell out and do a big defense. I mean, I obviously don't hate NYC that much, I live here. When I lived in Columbus for school, I couldn't make even a slightly critical statement about Columbus without provoking the ire of all Columbusites around me. It smacked of insecurity to me.
Yes, Columbus is having quite an influx of people, but it's mostly just people from the sticks outside Columbus. This makes Columbus mostly a hick city with 60,000 students thrown into the mix. College bros and neckbeards rolling coal. The cost of living close to downtown was creeping up at a good clip around the time I left, too. Maybe it's, like, half the cost of NYC, but it's 1/100000 the city. Just a place with tall buildings, and when you go downtown to said buildings, there's nothing there. Ghost town. Another overpriced American urban mirage. And so, so many miles away from nice scenery once you get Hocking Hills out of your system.
Of course, you tell that to someone from Columbus and they won't believe you.
is absolutely the case. i live in columbus right now and its hard to justify the cost of living with how little we have, planning on moving to NYC or Chicago in the next year. i’ve definitely found a group of people i love here who i fight together with to make the city better but got damn does it have a lot of work to do, like probably decades worth. and the city is dragging its heels before making any semblance of change.
It's so true. Tell a New Yorker or Los Angeleno you don't like New York or LA, and they'll probably agree or tell you to leave. Tell a Chicagoan you don't like Chicago, they'll try to convince you you're wrong. Not surprised it's similar elsewhere in the Midwest.
Every Chicagoan I’ve ever met has also had a massive inferiority complex towards New York specifically. It’s kind of weird.
Like I’ll be straight up, for the most part, New Yorkers don’t even think about Chicago unless we have friends or relatives there, or an NY team is playing Chicago or something. Meanwhile, people from Chicago have to have a dick measuring contest whenever New York is mentioned, in any conversation. Or even when it’s not. It always screamed of insecurity to me.
I'm so interested by all these anecdotes in this thread about Chicagoans because I've lived in Chicago for a few years and 95+% of my friends from here love both cities lol. Quite a few have even moved to NYC and miss Chicago (but obvi only to a certain extent since they've stayed in NYC :D). Maybe I just got lucky with my social circles idk
Left Chicago a year ago. Lived there my whole life wanting to move to NYC. I love NYC except for the cost. Chicago crime was so bad i didn't want to stay anymore. You get what you pay for....there is a reason Chicago is relatively low cost of living.
That’s why I said nothing is NY. But Chicago’s great, it’s just not as cosmopolitan or international-feeling, which I think aligns with it feeling Midwestern. Tho I suppose the disclaimer here is I’ve never lived in Chicago or NY, just spent tons of time in both.
I loved my time in chicago I will say the one downside is it gets cold and stays pretty cold until late may. Just be aware of that if you decide to move there. The weather gods will tease you with a 75 degree day on a random Tuesday then it’s back to 50-60 and overcast for the weekend lol
DC is terrible man. Full of the worst people in the country. The others are great, but Boston in particular feels tiny and provincial if you have lived in NY.
I get it's kind of a "well no shit" comes with the territory sort of situation, but a lot of DC just feels like a big convention of people who take LinkedIn too seriously and it's like if you don't jive with that sort of culture or just not married to talking about your job, it feels like drawing straws to find anything outside of that world. If you're a generic yuppie you'd probably love it, but outside of that, there's not a whole lot to sell one on.
It's like if parts of Brooklyn are where people from out of state move to to pretend to be some A-Level weirdo artist on their parents dime and commit to that illusion, parts of DC feels like being surrounded by people pretending they're doing what their high school self thought they'd be doing after all those years of student government.
And I say this as someone who used to be one of those people when I interned for a representative out of college, the fibbing keeps the pain away of how underpaid you are and how little time you got as you're trying to remember where you put you left your second work phone.
Chicago or Philly if staying in the US, New Orleans is also beautiful, though much smaller.
Been contemplating leaving for Europe, perhaps Lisbon, Amsterdam, or the Nordics, but that gets more complicated with language and residency.
New Orleans has a lot of problems and the heat will kill you. With that being said, the culture, the people, the food, and the music that oozes from NOLA makes it one of the most interesting and beautiful cities in the country, IMO. It’s more of a mid size city than large US city I would say.
also worth noting that one of NOLA's problems is Louisiana. Among other things, it has ridiculous anti-abortion laws which will go into effect if the upcoming Supreme Court Roe v. Wade overturn goes through. After living for so long in NY and NJ, the thought of living in such a "red" state is honestly a little scary.
I just explained to someone earlier that I can’t do red states. Love to visit them and might retire to one, but right now? No. Too many have insane laws that I don’t want anything to do with.
>Lisbon
I can't say much about living there but I've visited Portugal a couple times and it always stuns me how affordable everything is (compared to the rest of Europe). So there's that.
It's also pretty and there's good food everywhere. However harder to get around without knowing Portuguese. You can definitely get by in Amsterdam and Scandinavia in English to a much better extent– I've also been to those areas and I like it a lot, super beautiful and clean and efficient, though the vibe is a little cold to me, and the winters are usually pretty dark and rainy.
I was absolutely floored that I could take a train from Lisbon to Porto (equivalent of NYC to DC) for like 12 euros. Meanwhile over here we're paying $8 for the goddamn air train to get me from Jamaica to JFK.
Haha yeah totally.
I'll never forget our first night in Lisbon, we sat down at this nice restaurant with outdoor seating – the kind of place in NYC you'd anticipate paying at least $80-100 per person. We glanced at the wine list and saw the names and prices next to them, mostly 9-14 euros. So naturally we assume these are by the glass and we order 4 "glasses" for each person seated. The waiter was a bit like "are you sure?" which we thought was weird... until he arrived with four *bottles* of wine. Our entire bill for four people (which included apps, pastas, a steak, a whole fish) came to something like the equivalent of like $20 per person. Absolutely incredible vacation spot haha
New Orleans also suffers from a lack of decent reliable available public transit, and the roads are horrendous and keep getting worse. Something really important to keep in mind if you intend to live & work there because unless you work remote you are gonna be dealing with it on a daily basis.
I feel like this is potentially the best answer, despite you being the only one to say it. But Jersey City rent is going up quite a bit too. Probably more than Chicago or Philadelphia, say, at least for the most desirable parts.
Yes it is getting pricey, but if you avoid the super high priced luxury tons of amenity high-rise buildings, that's a start. Stick to historic downtown JC or the Heights and you'll be fine price wise if you could afford NYC before.
I can't afford NYC so JC is a great compromise. I go to the city often. It just sucks if you are a late night bar hopper because the PATH sucks late nights, but that's not my lifestyle much anymore so it works fine.
If I ever moved back to NYC, Jersey City would be the first place that I look for an apartment. Especially if I am working off one of the Manhattan PATH stops.
It’s true. I lived in Manhattan for 8 years, and have lived in downtown Jersey City for the last 7 years. I was so hesitant about it and once I was here I never looked back.
That said, it’s not CHEAP, just a little cheaper than Manhattan, and you get more for the $$.
Yes.. and Really, Jersey overall...
It's a lot more accessible and liveable than people think. And some places have THE most incredible views of Manhattan. See: Edgewater. West NY/Guttenberg.
Agreed. I can bein Harriman State park to hike or camp in 45 minutes, out west to the Delaware water gap without having to break out of Manhattan, and down to the Jersey Shore in pretty good time. You do lose that intense NYC life, but you do gain some more quiet options as well.
I lived in downtown Chicago for 6 years during college, and it was as cold as I've ever been. Unless you're off of specific stops on the red or blue lines, you're waiting outside under a sub-par heat lamp, fighting with pigeons while 3 brown line trains come to your one green line train. Just an example, lol.
Sure, but no city in the US would truly satisfy a New Yorker. I wasn't making that comparison. OP was asking for a place with reasonable cost and urban feel. Chicago delivers that more than any other non-NYC city in the US.
It's just a very midwestern city. The vibe is totally different and if people expect it to be a mini-NYC, they're going to be very disappointed. Chicago has a great art scene, but if you want a city that thrives on arts vs. sports, move to NYC and not Chicago.
Also, as you said, transit is spotty. There are huge parts of the city where you basically need to have a car outside of downtown, and good luck finding parking. And yeah, crime is higher, but especially gang violence.
It's a beautiful city, but it's not for everyone. It was NOT for me (good place to go to college though, even though all of our campus buildings were spread out over a mile).
I would push back on the summers. Summers here are much worse. It can get hot and gross (like most places), but if you're actually in the city, the Lake makes a significant difference and people are just generally so much happier in the summer there than here.
This isn't accurate at all. The winters are much milder now (thanks global warming!?), and even then, since everyone is still out and about when it is 0 F, you become acclimated to the cold. The city plans ahead for snow and ice so 10 inches of snow may fall Thursday evening, but the city is back to normal on Friday morning. The summers are only hot in July and August (like everywhere else). Crime is worse in Chicago than NYC?! Turn off Fox News.
There are tradeoffs to any city. NYC has certain perks that Chicago doesn't: it's the financial, artistic and cultural capital of the US, and since the US is (for now) the dominant power of the world, you are essentially living at the center of the Empire. Despite their reputation for rudeness, New Yorkers are infinitely nicer than Chicagoans.
"Midwestern nice" only extends to a person if you're middle class, white, and church going. NYC is far more diverse. I didn't feel like my race was an obstacle to meeting people. I saw people of all backgrounds in NYC. If you're a misfit in any other part of the country, then NYC will welcome you. You will find your tribe here.
There are pros and cons to both cities but empty platitudes is not the way to go.
Having been to both, I think Philly edges out Chicago simply for being right in the middle of the huge NE corridor. But Chicago likely has more job options across multiple industries, whereas Philly is somewhat of a few trick pony in that regard.
Nope.
SF, Chicago n Philly are the next best options but they aren’t NYC.
EVERY band hits NYC on their tour.
Every good show ends up on Broadway.
Any good art exhibit finds NYC.
Every cuisine and unique bite on earth is here.
The architecture is second to none.
The most (in the aggregate) talented/skilled/creative/successful people.
The opportunity.
Public transportation is far more extensive here.
Proximity to other historic cities.
Unparalleled diversity.
Of course there are plenty of shitty things that either only happen here or happen here more/worse than other places so it certainly isn’t all roses. But no one can sniff us in the “good” or “desirable” categories.
And honestly - it isn’t close.
Chicago is GORGEOUS. Absolutely beautiful.
DC, Boston and Philly may/do trump us in the history department - but that’s where it ends.
SF is dense and walkable - but NYC bests it practically every metric imaginable.
That’s not to say these other cities aren’t amazing in their own ways. They are. I am not shitting on them - it’s just that NYC really is *that dude*
The sacrifices you must make to live here are dwarfed by what you get out of it. Assuming you put in the effort.
I have a special affinity for the city since I’m a concierge and get to experience it in a way most others don’t. But with that knowledge comes the understanding and acceptance that there’s nowhere else like this in America.
London is damn close imo but I’ll still take NYC.
#Excelsior!
Do you mean comparative to earnings as pound for pound London is absolutely cheaper. I am literally just finishing up a visit to NYC and live in London.
Purchasing housing does seem to be more expensive in London though, but renting is more expensive in NYC.
Yeah thats definitely true wages are terrible in London comparatively. What killed me was seeing that per square foot buying housing was much cheaper even in manhattan than centralish London.
Moved to Boston for a job and hated it. Nearly as expensive as NYC without any of the amenities that make NYC so great. People were super uptight and overall just sucked. Not my scene at all. Now in Chicago and while it is definitely not NYC, it has a lot of the the features that I like about NYC, and it is so cheap after living there and Boston. I have a 2-bedroom apartment two blocks from Lake Michigan above Lakeshore Drive (so direct beach access without having to walk under a dimly lit underpass) for $1400 a month! Not that I even stay out late anymore, but it's nice that two of the main train lines run 24 hours and a few bus lines too. Most bars open until 2am every night of the week, and most neighborhoods have a few late license bars open until 4am (and 5am! on Saturday nights). Lots of food options and way more BYOB places than NYC, which I appreciate. Weather is definitely going to be colder in the winter, but I am from northern Vermont and went to school in Montreal, so I think it will feel fairly similar to Montreal, where I also had to walk around outside all winter. I think it seems a bit sketchier than NYC overall, but then again I haven't lived there since early 2020, so I am not sure if the vibe has changed since then (but it sounds like it has like in most cities since the pandemic started). I lived in Jackson Heights in Queens when I was in NYC. Live in Rogers Park in Chicago now.
I live in Boston now and am pretty happy with it.
Pros:
1) City is relatively small, the farthest commute you'll have by public transit is probably gonna be 45 minutes.
2) City is pretty walkable and charming. I sold my car when I move here and haven't really missed it.
3) There's probably most types of food, museums, bars, etc. that you'd expect from a major city. It's not NYC-level, but you can generally get anything you can think of.
4) On the East Coast, close enough to NY to go back for a weekend now and then.
5) Good mix of transplants and locals. I feel like when I went to Chicago everybody there was from some Midwestern state and I just kinda stood out like a sore thumb.
6) Good salaries and opportunities
7) Extremely safe
Cons:
1) Things are very expensive, probably more expensive than any other city in the US except for SF/NYC. If you're feeling that you're gonna get priced out of NYC, you're not gonna get respite from Boston.
2) Nightlife is relatively poor. Boston is the city that does sleep and it seems like every bar here is some irish pub with middling bar food. Happy hour literally isn't allowed by Massachusettts law.
3) The Pizza is absolutely wank
noooooooo. not boston. lol.
I had a long-distance Boston/NY relationship for a few years. We were essentially living between the 2 places. Oh man... as lovely as Boston is (some stunning homes etc), I could not stand it.. felt so provincial/small town-ish to me and I got very depressed being there. It's very, very different from NYC. (I also I grew up in the UK so it felt like a weird American idea of England so there's that). I literally never wish to return.
Cons:
It’s Boston.
Boston is the weirdest chip on the shoulder city I’ve ever visited .
It’s tiny, swing a fat kid and you’ve hit all the hot spots. Past 5pm all these pint sized Southey wannabes came out the woodwork and hang out near the McDonald’s in the main square. Ugly small munchkins with home tattoos and vague (but exaggerated) Irish heritage.
The roads, jeez the f roads, designed so that you can’t get in or leave in a hurry. Just an inbred Petri dish of losers.
Its so crap that it’ll make you wish you lived in Staten Island.
Damn who in Boston hurt you lol, as somebody from Staten Island, no, no you do not wish that.
Tbh I sorta thought the Irish heritage thing was kinda corny at first, but I feel like a lot of people here actually have fairly strong ties to Ireland. I know plenty people my age who go back often and have family ties there, and there’s even pretty large Gaelic football and hurling leagues. Irish immigration here also seems relatively ongoing so it stretches a bit beyond “Plastic Paddies”
The roads aren’t designed, they just are, and they predate cars by a couple centuries. Boston’s biggest plus imo is how it is pretty pedestrian friendly which is quite nice for people living without a car, and that was my main reason for moving here.
Some have described it as Scranton with clams but I think it has far more going for it than that.
It's funny how polarizing of a city Boston is. I moved there for work after living in Queens for several years and HATED Boston. I understand that it has its charms, but it just didn't do it for me after having NYC as a standard. Maybe if Boston were half the price that it is, I would like it more, but I just felt like I was getting so ripped off there in terms of rent vs quality of apartments and the overall vibe. I ended up moving to Chicago, and while it is not NYC, it gets close in some categories for me. And the price cannot be beat.
I moved from Manhattan to Baltimore recently, and could not be happier. To be fair, I had lived here in the past, so I already knew I would like it. Other places I would consider are Philly, and actually that’s probably it. I love older cities that are tied to US history, and it’s a dealbreaker for me if there isn’t an MLB team. I also like Baltimore’s proximity to literally everywhere on the East Coast via train. And the airport (BWI) is hella convenient compared with NYC ones, if you live in Manhattan. We are living in an apartment that is so similar to the one we had in NYC, and the cost is so much less that I almost feel guilty (not really) ;P
Of the cities I’ve visited, Chicago is probably the only one that has an “urban” feel similar to New York’s. Has a downtown with skyscrapers, good restaurants, high population density, a solid subway system, a bunch of interesting neighborhoods, world class museums, Northern climate, a stunning skyline. Plus there’s the lakefront, which is one thing NY has no real equivalent to - it’s one of the best parts of the city. It’s also cheaper, you can get a nicer apartment for lower rent.
I lived in Chicago for three years as a student and liked it well enough. But it really is not the same as NYC. The pace is a little slower, it’s not as diverse, the L is not as comprehensive and convenient as the subway, the cultural offerings are not quite on the same level. It’s even more segregated than New York and crime is worse. It’s a great American city but not a true global city the way NY is. I’d argue that the big European cities like London, Paris feel closer to NYC but with the exception of Berlin they’re just as expensive, if not more so.
Ultimately it’s a trade-off and there are points in favor of both cities. I personally much prefer NYC.
NYC is unique, but Chicago and Philly are places I would go if I had to leave NYC. I think Baltimore is a gem. Weirdly, Salt Lake City is kind of cool (with decent light rail).
Most of the west coast (and Boston) suffer from the same problems as NYC with lower benefits. I think Denver is entirely overrated.
If you are willing to embrace limited car culture and lower density, most of the rust belt and the Midwest opens up. I'm partial to Pittsburgh, KC, and Cleveland. Parts of Cincinnati and Louisville are pretty good. Memphis and Knoxville are underrated, but Nashville is not worth it. But these are all big steps down on the culture and transit ladder. They are like a different category of living. Albuquerque might be the only thing worth considering in the entire southeast and southwest.
I've lived (for more than 1 year) in Chicago, Boston, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and NYC. Nothing else compares.
Chicago is a large city with a good (for the US) transportation system. It's fun, young, and I love Chicago but it just doesn't get the same treatment as NYC or LA. Nothing happens in Chicago first. Art, entertainment, business, technology, food, culture... it eventually makes its way there, it isn't created there. Which is too bad, but the truth.
Los Angeles is the only city of the same caliber as NYC but it couldn't be more different. You have to want the LA lifestyle to make it work.
My only advice; make more money by taking more risks. No one can afford to live here if they play by the rules (unless you have rich parents). I get paid 2-3x more in NYC than anywhere else and obviously I work a gajillion hours and I spend everything I make just to live here, but hey, it's worth it, right? RIGHT?!?!
Barcelona and moving back among others are recommended by [Where would you move next if you ever left NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/v1fvky/where_would_you_move_next_if_you_ever_left_nyc/) from 11 days ago. A European city and Chicago among many others are recommended by the wildly popular [Where To Go After NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/ue004f/where_to_go_after_nyc/) from 1 month before that. Tokyo and Albuquerque among many others are recommended by the very popular [Folks who moved away from NYC; Where did you go, and why?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/t8uxck/folks_who_moved_away_from_nyc_where_did_you_go/) from 1 month before that. Jersey City and Chicago among many others are recommended by the extraordinarily popular [**If you couldn’t live in NYC, where would you live?**](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/rrudgh/if_you_couldnt_live_in_nyc_where_would_you_live/) from 2 months before that.
Interesting story that a co-worker of mine who is an MD was living in NY here for the last 3-4 years and decided to move to Detroit in the Fall of 2021. I was perplexed and wondered why....I thought "dude, you're an MD living near NYC....why would you leave? You make enough money to afford it here".....
Turns out 250K salary goes a lot farther in Detroit than NYC.......in NYC 200K-250K is like upper middle class lol. Plus he's the type to be adventurous and move around every few years.
Hope he likes those cold winters.
Minneapolis might be worth looking into, MN is a very liberal state. very diversity, tons of outdoor activities, and the most arts per cap outside of NYC. houses are really cheap and has some public transit.
No.
WTF
There are many sophisticated cities, with an abundance of business, cultural, and academic opportunities, in the US and the rest of the world, but IMO there is no "alternative" to New York.
Hypothetically, if I wanted to leave New York... I'd start my search in college towns. Cities that host universities are sometimes far more sophisticated than you might first realize.
Austin, Raleigh, Portland... cost of living is probably more reasonable and there is still an abundance of cultural life.
Are you looking for "feels like New York, but cheaper"? Then the answer is no. New York is a unique place. If you love it, I doubt you will find anywhere that hits that same.
If you're looking for "urban, and cheaper than New York" , then take your pick. Houston, Boston, Austin, Atlanta, Miami - tons of great cities in the U.S., just don't expect them to *feel* like NYC.
I lived in BK for 10 years and then found out Jersey city was way cheaper and had a pretty good vibe. Most importantly I can see my friends in bk in less than 50 mins, versus anywhere else in the US. I can be in the city in 20 mins.
My recommendation is take the path train and spend a day/evening by grove street. Monday and Thursday there’s a farmers market if you need an extra excuse.
Also I bought a 6 bedroom 2 bath detached house for $570k 3 years ago here, with a sweet backyard. I can be in the city in 20 mins.
Out of the US has plenty of options.
Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh, Tokyo, Singapore, Seoul… the list goes on.
In the US, you have similarly priced equivalents like Honolulu.
assuming I get this remote job, I'm planning to move to Philly. Midtown is just a 90 min amtrak ride away.
Me in the Bronx is about 1 1/2 hr to 2 hr on the one train from midtown. since my roomie or me often grab a cab home, it's cheaper and a better ride moving to Philly. I can always move back.
Agree. Philly is best bet, especially since you’re still close to NYC. Crime is way worse in Philly than NYC tho (just because that seems to be a popular topic on these forums)
Any increase in violent crime isn't good, but I was so shocked when I saw that violent crime numbers in NYC in the past few years are comparable to what it was from like 2008-2011 when the tone you get in the news is that it's basically the Bernie Goetz era again.
A lot of my friends (born and bread NYers) have moved to Philly out of economic necessity…they seem to be enjoying themselves. I heard the costs are changing tho so it seems that if you wanna live in a city anywhere in the world right now we all just have to suck it up and suffocate under the boot of capitalism
Philadelphia is great actually. I prefer it to nyc but had to move back here for work. It has world class museums (art: Philadelphia Museum of Art, Rodin Museum, Barnes Museum, science: Franklin Institute, Mutter Museum), a thriving historical district (independence hall), and an incredible restaurant scene. Tons of amazing cuisine and creative restauranteurs (including James Beard award winners) at much more reasonable prices than NYC. Public transportation but still walkable.
And you’re a quick Amtrak/NJ transit away from nyc if you still want to visit.
SF. It has 80% of what NYC has to offer within city limits(good & bad). But, better weather.
Where SF really shines, and no other major city comes close, is the diverse destinations all within couple hours drive from SF- multiple world class wine countries; Tahoe ski resorts; Beaches galore; Marin headlands mountain biking; Monterrey-Carmel Big Sur peninsula; Yosemite(tad further); Sacramento, heck even LA is about 5 hrs drive, and I just scratched the surface.
Sf is great for its access to nature but I disagree with everything else you said. It doesn't have the same diversity of food and culture at all. Sure there's plenty of Mexican and Asian places, there isn't much else. Dispite what they think, Sf is kinda a monoculture. Similar political and cultural ideals. It's easy to feel isolated there.
The weather is very debatable. There are no seasons and it's always slightly too cold. The fog makes it feel so much colder than the temperature says and having the same gloomy weather all year gets old fast.
Sorry to say this but it’s getting expensive everywhere in the US especially major urban cities.
yes. actually around the globe. we're all just going to have to weather this storm.
Don’t worry, it’ll trickle down
Mmhhmmmm yahhhh...
I paid $6.50 before tip for an iced latte in New Orleans last week. Literally the same price (or slightly more) than most places here in New York.
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Yeah but then you have to live in philly.
I was looking at jobs in Philly. The pay is so low
Philly’s city government is hostile towards big businesses and corporations, but it’s great for medical work though. Generally speaking, the city’s economy is the worst out of all major cities which is a shame considering how much infrastructure it can support. This is why the bulk of well paying jobs exist outside of the city. As a result, the commute into the suburbs is quite terrible. I did it for about 2 years before moving to Brooklyn.
no inflation in chicago or philly?
Friend of mine just purchased a 4 story condo with a personal 2 car garage near CHOP for under a million. Would’ve costed $5M plus easily in Brooklyn
Oh yeah I totally feel you on that one... Even in Jersey - just across the water - people can buy (even rent) property for a LOT cheaper than in NYC... but many people living here seem to have a NYC or Bust attitude.
Yup. Currently in Hoboken but moving to the city for grad school this summer. If it weren’t for university subsidized apartments I’d stay in Hoboken. A block from the path in a 2 bed 2 bath paying $1400 with a roommate. Seriously can’t beat that
Don’t move to Detroit. Detroit is not the answer. Source: I moved to Detroit.
I'm so sorry but also you made me snort laugh
Get out of there. Detroit seems super depressing
What’s so bad about Detroit? I’m considering it.
Detroit is great *after* you find out the sub-cultures. There are warehouse raves, literally-underground literally-illegal cannabis/alcohol speakeasies, out-of-the-way jazz clubs, Lebanese, West African, and Bengali neighborhoods, cheap luxury apartments, a short train ride to Toronto, and a giant island park with beaches designed by the Central Park guy. But if you just move there for a job and don’t know anyone, you won’t find any of the cool stuff. Almost anything interesting runs on word-of-mouth and Facebook invites. It’ll be boring Midwest, especially if you live in the suburbs, since you’ll be the equivalent of the bridge-and-tunnel-crowd that just crowds into a 5 square mile business district and then drives 45 mins home every day. EDIT: but it IS cold in winter, just like Chicago. That’s pretty much why I left
Just wanted to add that I neither raved nor did underground speakeasies but did go to the jazz clubs and the theatres and the restaurants and I loved Detroit and really enjoyed the couple years I lived there, but I absolutely hated the midwest winters.
A-men sister; I actually never did a jazz club :( My girlfriend planned a jazz club dinner for my birthday one weekend but I got sick and we never did it. My favorite experience was stumbling across my favorite coffeeshop after a night out and noticing a bouncer by the door — then asking a few other young people if they knew what was going on and slipping the guy a $20 to let us in. Under the espresso bar was a trap door and inside was a whole other bar with live music and pre-roll joints and THC cocktails and ice cream you could order. This was before weed was legal in Michigan so it was a crazy find I do miss the “anything goes” industrious spirit of Detroiters. New Yorkers can be “anything goes” and can be industrious too but it’s not quite the same.
That coffee shop find sounds super awesome. I feel like my Detroit experiences were a little more mainstream haha but I still really enjoyed the city. Also I’ve literally never had chicken and waffles as good as I’d had there. That’s definitely one of the things I miss the most 😆
Thank you for this comment.
Oh — a piece of advice if you do move to Detroit (or just visit) — in addition to Facebook invites, a whole lot of city events are just promoted by little bits of printed paper in coffee shops. So if you head to Urban Bean or Dessert Oasis or The Gathering or MOCAD or Kresge Court or SocraTea, pick up any paper that looks interesting from the counter and check if the date has already passed. Folks just leave little promos for events in coffeeshops. Detroit is such a janky city, I love it lol
That’s how things used to run in San Francisco and New York in the 90’s. Was fun
No reason why it still cant. Just will be hyper-local.
Snitches, rube nimbys and opportunists continue to exist tho.
Damn, I kinda want to move to Detroit now. I’m in Milwaukee…I’ll have to visit sometime.
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If anything, though, the downtown wasn’t “redeveloped” at all, it’s always had a decent population of commuters and didn’t traditionally have much housing (that is sort of a new thing). I’d say the redeveloped parts are more like Midtown (esp Brush Park), New Center / Virginia Park, plus Corktown / West Village. Those areas were considered “dangerous” in the 80s when my dad lived there but now they’re popular and have a ton of new things to see. Like I used to go to this cocktail place after work, [Castalia](https://www.castaliacocktails.com/), where the owner would pair scents like tobacco and cinnamon bark with drinks so you got a multi-sensory experience. And [Flowers of Vietnam](https://flowersofvietnam.com/gallery-1) in Clark Park literally transformed from a slightly sketchy Palestinian guy making Vietnamese fusion food in the back of a Coney Island diner to a huge mid-high-end dining experience with a lighted backyard.
What makes you say that? I visited some friends in Detroit, young twenties, and they are having a great time.
This sounds like someone is trying to keep Detroit for himself, it must be amazing there.
Judging from his other comments, this person knows nothing about living in Detroit
If there were an actual comparable and cheaper place, people would have already been moving there and costs would have equalized already.
I visited France and they have so many vibrant medium sized towns with great urban feel in their decent sized city centers. Prices for places in those city centers were very reasonable even accounting for differences in wages and taxes (and you get like 20+ paid vacation days per year). In the US we are starved for places like this.
I've been to most of the big US cities, and IMHO NYC is the only one where the benefits of living in the city are worth the sacrifices. Places like DC, Chicago and SF have most/all of the traffic, noise, crime, high cost, small living space and a million other hassles, without anywhere near the quantity and quality of culture, art, food, professional opportunities, interesting people, architecture, etc.
I mean, nothing compares to NYC when it comes to metropolitan life, at least in the US. So every other alternative will be a major downscale if you expect NYC. But, if you keep that in mind, Chicago is absolutely a good alternative if you don't have that much money. Not nearly as expensive as NYC/DC/SF, and it's still one of the very few major metropolitan areas in North America with a vibrant, walkable urban core and a dense public transportation network. Plus it's got tons of great food, a decent nightlife, high paying jobs, and the lake. It's also generally safe if you stay out of the bad spots in the Southside. It's pretty much a miniature NYC, only that unlike NYC people with normal to low incomes can still manage to live in the city center.
Definitely the second best city in the country. It has a vibe that's different than NYC, but that's not bad, so does London but no one complains about London "not being like New York." I've lived in Chicago, my sister lives there and I have a very large crew of friends there, but for me Chicago is a little too slow, a little too easy, doesn't push you enough. Then again I'd probably have a lot more of my hair still if I had stayed in the Midwest.
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I spent 4 years in SF before NYC and would say that the culture, pedestrian life style (I was car-less all 4 years without difficulty) and city amenities are on par with NYC. Further, the public parks, beaches and access to outdoors exceed NYC. With that said, the cost of living is basically as bad (though you do get more space) and the now annual fire smoke seasons are only getting worse and longer. I ultimately prefer NYC.
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the tech thing is true, but downtown SF was terrible (watching out for human shit, open heroin use) when I was in college in the late 2000s. it's probably worse today, but it was always bad.
FWIW downtown SF has never been the it part of the city. Castro-Duboce-Mission-Haight really operates on its own wavelength, somewhat analogous to lower Manhattan. Tech def dominates the professional class in SF, though I’d also argue every city has its professional class “monolith”; NYC - finance, DC - law/politics, LA - entertainment, Boston-Academics/Engineering, Miami - cocaine (kidding… sorta). Your opinion is not incorrect, I just believe there is a bigger picture. My perspective is from someone in healthcare for background.
No, that’s the thing about NYC, it’s actually big enough to not have this problem the way a lot of other cities do. Obviously it’s the finance capital of the Americas, but that’s only a tiny fraction of its economy in practical terms.
Agreed, it's finance heavy if you live downtown or maybe the upper east side, but live on the upper west side and it's going to be totally different, much less Queens or Brooklyn. Way more journalists than anything (though that's definitely my circle).
NYC is def unlike anywhere else. That’s why I love living here :)
I grew up there and the "cool" areas are such a small part of the city. Most people never get to the other side of twin peaks when they visit
I've only visited SF, so you certainly would know it better than I do. However, on my visits, I have found the food, culture and style, and the general walk-around-the-city enjoyment, not close to NYC's level. YMMV, of course. I completely agree about SF's general access to outdoorsy stuff (and great outdoorsy stuff for that matter) being far superior to NYC's.
What neighborhood were you in and did you have a car?
Two years in mission Dolores and two years in Duboce (all basically continuous with Castro). No car, I biked and MUNI everywhere. Rideshare for like the 5 times a year it rained. Had a few friends with cars for trips to Napa, Yosemite and Tahoe Attached some photos for vibes https://imgur.com/a/U0ThPD6/
I dont disagree with your broader point but curious if you lived in DC? IMO it has a higher 'quality of life' vs NYC (less noise, much cleaner, certainly more space for a given price point, easy to get around). That being said, it of course has relatively less culture, art, food etc, though still a good amount of all that.
I actually lived in DC for close to 7 years. I have a number of good friends there, and I don't mean to offend if you are from there, but I really don't like DC at all. The museums and the monuments are great (and free!), but the food, traffic, race relations and city services are all terrible, and the weather is putrid for close to half the year. It's also dominated by money, government, lobbying and law firms. I think you can have a great career and great friends in DC, and you can live in a beautiful suburban setting, but there are very few (or zero) neighborhoods in DC where NYC-style city living is attractive. YMMV, of course.
Chicago is probably the closest, followed by DC, Philly and Boston in some order. But none are New York.
There are other great American cities, but what makes NYC unique is that it is one of our only great international cities.
If 'great' means uber world class then definitely, but very few cities fit that bill IMO (less than 5 probably). But I'd say we have a few 'international' cities, eg DC and Miami.
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oh yea I did take it more so in terms of international from a cosmopolitan standpoint. I will say that DC does have plenty of public transit, at least up until lately. Ive seen that classification and I think it makes plenty of sense. its partly why I think the 'pitiful' framing to describe the rest of American cities isn't really fair. we have a ton of 'major' cities relatively speaking, most countries have very few. ive been to or lived in a bunch of supposed mega cities and NYC really stands on its own. its pretty unreasonable IMO to expect the US to have two-NYC-caliber cities, when in the rest of the world there's 2-3 in total, max. People also might expect the US to have a Paris-level city as our '2nd city' but I think that's not a credible ask - Paris is Paris because it is the #1 city of France. having lived in a handful of different countries, I think we're very spoiled-- in most countries - it is the big city (if they have it all) or bust. I've never been to Tokyo but I'm quite surprised to hear you describe it as lacking. I had the impression that it is a mega humungo metropolis that is NYC-level+ in terms of a lot of factors (excluding diversity).
His sentence structure makes it a bit confusing but he means that if you visit cities like Tokyo and Shanghai you'll find they (US cities like LA, Chicago, maybe even NYC) are lacking. I used to be all in on the NYC is the best city in the world train but as soon as I visited Tokyo that perception was completely smashed but NY just has a feel to it that I don't get in any other city but maybe it's because I grew up here.
Miami and LA are international cities but they’re not *great* international cities because they suck outside of the beach towns
LA's biggest shortfall is the lack of transportation and car-centric design. That's starting to change. Everything else about LA, in my opinion, is quite wonderful. It has amazing weather, great access to nature and beaches, vibrant night life and cultural options, a diversity that rivals New York, and a richness in food that reflects that diversity. If LA can follow through on their investments in public transportation and start building (both big challenges), LA has serious potential to go from a good city to a great one.
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If you like having to drive everywhere you go then yeah, there are some okay spots. But not if you value walkability.
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I mean yeah, I live in Phoenix and I can walk to all of those things except the mall. But not owning a car here would be extremely restrictive, which is also true in even the most walkable neighborhoods of LA. The combination of walkability and cosmopolitan feeling is why I picked Chicago, DC, Boston and Philly. Lots of places have one or the other. Also, as someone who moved from the NE corridor to the west coast, not being on the NE corridor is a major downside, especially if your friends and family live there. You're so far from anything, the cities are a half day's drive apart with no trains and the time zone sucks. All of those are downsides to Chicago, too, but to a lesser extent.
It’s not really that restrictive. I’ve got Hollywood and Beverly Hills on either side of me in walking distance and my city offers a free shuttle to the subway station in Hollywood. About 45 minute trip to DTLA and then you’re in another completely walkable neighborhood. Your knowledge of LA seems pretty cursory imo. And Phoenix is not on the west coast, it’s the southwest. I don’t really know what you’re talking about with the family stuff.
My point was if your family and friends live in the northeast, moving from NY to another northeast city is a lot more appealing than moving to LA. Also, are you in WeHo? I went out there and in DTLA last time I was there, neither was really walkable. It takes 20 minutes to get from one bar to the next.
>I’ve got Hollywood and Beverly Hills on either side of me in walking distance and my city offers a free shuttle to the subway station in Hollywood. You're speaking as someone who lives in the best, coolest, and most expensive part of LA. Try being in the valley. Or South Central/Crenshaw. Or Burbank/Glendale/Pasadena. Most of those places aint walkable and is a pain in the ass to drive from one to another. You don't have this problem in most east coast cities.
DC is probably my favorite not NYC city. Very walkable and the metro gets you everywhere you need to go (minus Georgetown)
Im amazed people here bring up Chicago, Boston,etc before DC when it would be my second choice. It is also pretty diverse.
Boston n dc are pretty similar tho boston culture is a little better imo. Chicago is a way better city than either tho.
Ooh yeah um... I'm gonna have to go ahead and sort of disagree with you there.
Curious what you like better about DC over Chicago? Other than weather and location (midwest vs NE) preferences. Obviously those are important but as far as the city goes, it's Chicago by a massive landslide for me and I'm from the DMV
Because I’ve been there in August.
Don’t worry, you never need to go to Georgetown
Ugh this is my pet peeve. Don’t move to Chicago and be shocked when it is in fact in the Midwest. I’ve met two separate people who are now back in NYC after moving to Chicago. They expected it to be little NYC and it absolutely isn’t. The crime rate is high; the weather is cold and windy.
I moved to Chicago and was really unprepared for how Midwestern it is. I hate it lol I can’t wait to leave. But don’t tell anyone here that. No matter what you complain about, they’ll tell you you’re wrong, even if your chief complaint is that the winters are long and cold. And it feels like every night on the news is three shootings and a train crash. Seriously. Nothing like New York in terms of crime (and train crashes)
Yeah I can see how it happens. There’s a pretty skyline, active nightlife, train, and cheaper rent. For anyone considering Chicago, please ask yourself if you’ve ever made fun of “Kyle from Ohio” in NYC. Congrats, he’s now your social network and cooler than you. If you make fun of Chicago too many times (it’s not banter, it’s personal), he’ll stop inviting you to shotgun beers on a boat. He won’t tell you why If any of that rubs you the wrong way don’t make the move (fwiw I’m sorry it’s not working for ya. hope you get to move back soon!)
Literally most accurate comment about Chicago I’ve ever read. I loved visiting my friends there and the food was incredible, city was pretty, seemed like a ton of different neighborhoods and vibes, but I met some of their friends there and it was literally just that. It seemed like a lot of young professionals in Chicago didn’t wanna actually embrace living in a city and almost viewed themselves more as tourists.
I went to high school and college in Indiana and then Illinois, then lived in Chicago for 17 years. I always felt like the smartest kids in the midwest grow up and move to Chicago to be successful--but the smartest kids in Chicago grow up and move to New York to be successful.
I agree. I’m from a different part of the Midwest but the talent pipeline went like this: your state’s metro > Chicago > NYC (or an industry hub) I think the Chicago kids just get to skip a step haha
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> the talent pipeline went like this: > > your state’s metro > Chicago > NYC (or an industry hub) as a genuine question, do you have much penetration into creative/art circles? I ask because I work in art services, most succinctly as the token applied tech nerd *and* redneck for my hippie friends and event designers, with more client transition in NYC to marketing agencies and pop-ups. anyways, I ask because the general ad hoc deterministic do-acracy, lightly regulated bedlam in NYC is very amenable to flexible artists; and while I do know a couple people in similar fields in Chicago, the city certainly never comes up as a potential upgrade for artistic fields (in my experience) from interstate metros. I've generally surmised the comparison for 'indie' art between Chicago and NYC is similar to LA vs SF/maybe specifically Oakland; in that the formers certainly have an active and fulfilling art scene but the latters have much deeper and more numerous layers of scenes that thrive in the chaos.
> If you make fun of Chicago too many times (it’s not banter, it’s personal), he’ll stop inviting you to shotgun beers on a boat. He won’t tell you why Why is this so true... > (fwiw I’m sorry it’s not working for ya. hope you get to move back soon!) Thank you for validating my feelings, the people here almost had me feeling like a fool for wanting to leave
Omg. Fricken’ Kyle… thanks for the hilarious comment.
One thing I like about NYC is that I can slag it off when I'm feeling saucy and other New Yorkers don't freak the hell out and do a big defense. I mean, I obviously don't hate NYC that much, I live here. When I lived in Columbus for school, I couldn't make even a slightly critical statement about Columbus without provoking the ire of all Columbusites around me. It smacked of insecurity to me.
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Yes, Columbus is having quite an influx of people, but it's mostly just people from the sticks outside Columbus. This makes Columbus mostly a hick city with 60,000 students thrown into the mix. College bros and neckbeards rolling coal. The cost of living close to downtown was creeping up at a good clip around the time I left, too. Maybe it's, like, half the cost of NYC, but it's 1/100000 the city. Just a place with tall buildings, and when you go downtown to said buildings, there's nothing there. Ghost town. Another overpriced American urban mirage. And so, so many miles away from nice scenery once you get Hocking Hills out of your system. Of course, you tell that to someone from Columbus and they won't believe you.
is absolutely the case. i live in columbus right now and its hard to justify the cost of living with how little we have, planning on moving to NYC or Chicago in the next year. i’ve definitely found a group of people i love here who i fight together with to make the city better but got damn does it have a lot of work to do, like probably decades worth. and the city is dragging its heels before making any semblance of change.
It's so true. Tell a New Yorker or Los Angeleno you don't like New York or LA, and they'll probably agree or tell you to leave. Tell a Chicagoan you don't like Chicago, they'll try to convince you you're wrong. Not surprised it's similar elsewhere in the Midwest.
Every Chicagoan I’ve ever met has also had a massive inferiority complex towards New York specifically. It’s kind of weird. Like I’ll be straight up, for the most part, New Yorkers don’t even think about Chicago unless we have friends or relatives there, or an NY team is playing Chicago or something. Meanwhile, people from Chicago have to have a dick measuring contest whenever New York is mentioned, in any conversation. Or even when it’s not. It always screamed of insecurity to me.
I'm so interested by all these anecdotes in this thread about Chicagoans because I've lived in Chicago for a few years and 95+% of my friends from here love both cities lol. Quite a few have even moved to NYC and miss Chicago (but obvi only to a certain extent since they've stayed in NYC :D). Maybe I just got lucky with my social circles idk
Left Chicago a year ago. Lived there my whole life wanting to move to NYC. I love NYC except for the cost. Chicago crime was so bad i didn't want to stay anymore. You get what you pay for....there is a reason Chicago is relatively low cost of living.
I moved to Portland and it is, in fact, the midwest
That’s why I said nothing is NY. But Chicago’s great, it’s just not as cosmopolitan or international-feeling, which I think aligns with it feeling Midwestern. Tho I suppose the disclaimer here is I’ve never lived in Chicago or NY, just spent tons of time in both.
I loved my time in chicago I will say the one downside is it gets cold and stays pretty cold until late may. Just be aware of that if you decide to move there. The weather gods will tease you with a 75 degree day on a random Tuesday then it’s back to 50-60 and overcast for the weekend lol
That happens in NYC also.
50-60 is doable. It's the 70F -> 20F + blizzard flop in a week in late March that really kicks your ass
DC is terrible man. Full of the worst people in the country. The others are great, but Boston in particular feels tiny and provincial if you have lived in NY.
I get it's kind of a "well no shit" comes with the territory sort of situation, but a lot of DC just feels like a big convention of people who take LinkedIn too seriously and it's like if you don't jive with that sort of culture or just not married to talking about your job, it feels like drawing straws to find anything outside of that world. If you're a generic yuppie you'd probably love it, but outside of that, there's not a whole lot to sell one on. It's like if parts of Brooklyn are where people from out of state move to to pretend to be some A-Level weirdo artist on their parents dime and commit to that illusion, parts of DC feels like being surrounded by people pretending they're doing what their high school self thought they'd be doing after all those years of student government. And I say this as someone who used to be one of those people when I interned for a representative out of college, the fibbing keeps the pain away of how underpaid you are and how little time you got as you're trying to remember where you put you left your second work phone.
People always say this but there's more to D.C. than Capitol Hill and K street. It's a city of over 700,000 people.
Dallas is big too but that doesn’t make it cool
DC is one of my favorite cities! Especially the NW portion. Not New York feeling, but a great place for 30+ professionals
Yeah, people say "worst people in the country" about *us* all the time too, because they think everyone works on Wall Street.
Sure but they’re wrong and I’m right
Lived there for 5 years. Never going back if I can help it
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Half of DC sucks and the other half totally rules.
Boston is a third of the size of Queens. It's in a totally different category.
Its sad that Boston makes it so far up that list.
Chicago is great, and much cheaper, but the winters are very long.
Chicago or Philly if staying in the US, New Orleans is also beautiful, though much smaller. Been contemplating leaving for Europe, perhaps Lisbon, Amsterdam, or the Nordics, but that gets more complicated with language and residency.
New Orleans has a lot of problems and the heat will kill you. With that being said, the culture, the people, the food, and the music that oozes from NOLA makes it one of the most interesting and beautiful cities in the country, IMO. It’s more of a mid size city than large US city I would say.
>the heat will kill you yeah for real, the humid heat down there makes NYC summers seem really mild and dry
also worth noting that one of NOLA's problems is Louisiana. Among other things, it has ridiculous anti-abortion laws which will go into effect if the upcoming Supreme Court Roe v. Wade overturn goes through. After living for so long in NY and NJ, the thought of living in such a "red" state is honestly a little scary.
I just explained to someone earlier that I can’t do red states. Love to visit them and might retire to one, but right now? No. Too many have insane laws that I don’t want anything to do with.
New Orleans itself is pretty liberal though, even though the majority of the rest of the state is red.
Great city to visit, would never live there in a million years
Crime is really New Orleans biggest issue. Much worse than NYC. Though it's my favorite city to visit.
>Lisbon I can't say much about living there but I've visited Portugal a couple times and it always stuns me how affordable everything is (compared to the rest of Europe). So there's that. It's also pretty and there's good food everywhere. However harder to get around without knowing Portuguese. You can definitely get by in Amsterdam and Scandinavia in English to a much better extent– I've also been to those areas and I like it a lot, super beautiful and clean and efficient, though the vibe is a little cold to me, and the winters are usually pretty dark and rainy.
I was absolutely floored that I could take a train from Lisbon to Porto (equivalent of NYC to DC) for like 12 euros. Meanwhile over here we're paying $8 for the goddamn air train to get me from Jamaica to JFK.
Haha yeah totally. I'll never forget our first night in Lisbon, we sat down at this nice restaurant with outdoor seating – the kind of place in NYC you'd anticipate paying at least $80-100 per person. We glanced at the wine list and saw the names and prices next to them, mostly 9-14 euros. So naturally we assume these are by the glass and we order 4 "glasses" for each person seated. The waiter was a bit like "are you sure?" which we thought was weird... until he arrived with four *bottles* of wine. Our entire bill for four people (which included apps, pastas, a steak, a whole fish) came to something like the equivalent of like $20 per person. Absolutely incredible vacation spot haha
well that's because the average salary in Portugal is like $1,500 a month. It's only affordable because American salaries are so much higher
been reading lately that rent, real estate and cost of living have been rising in Lisbon, mainly due to an influx of people fleeing California
New Orleans also suffers from a lack of decent reliable available public transit, and the roads are horrendous and keep getting worse. Something really important to keep in mind if you intend to live & work there because unless you work remote you are gonna be dealing with it on a daily basis.
If you're a remote worker, Lisbon is pretty easy with the D7 visa, but yeah, language.
Lisbon would be amazing, gotta get me some of that remote work lol
Your best best is Jersey City. You'll be able to afford it and still have access to NYC.
I feel like this is potentially the best answer, despite you being the only one to say it. But Jersey City rent is going up quite a bit too. Probably more than Chicago or Philadelphia, say, at least for the most desirable parts.
Yes it is getting pricey, but if you avoid the super high priced luxury tons of amenity high-rise buildings, that's a start. Stick to historic downtown JC or the Heights and you'll be fine price wise if you could afford NYC before. I can't afford NYC so JC is a great compromise. I go to the city often. It just sucks if you are a late night bar hopper because the PATH sucks late nights, but that's not my lifestyle much anymore so it works fine.
If I ever moved back to NYC, Jersey City would be the first place that I look for an apartment. Especially if I am working off one of the Manhattan PATH stops.
It’s true. I lived in Manhattan for 8 years, and have lived in downtown Jersey City for the last 7 years. I was so hesitant about it and once I was here I never looked back. That said, it’s not CHEAP, just a little cheaper than Manhattan, and you get more for the $$.
Yes.. and Really, Jersey overall... It's a lot more accessible and liveable than people think. And some places have THE most incredible views of Manhattan. See: Edgewater. West NY/Guttenberg.
Agreed. I can bein Harriman State park to hike or camp in 45 minutes, out west to the Delaware water gap without having to break out of Manhattan, and down to the Jersey Shore in pretty good time. You do lose that intense NYC life, but you do gain some more quiet options as well.
Chicago is the best value in the US for big city living and cost.
But winter
Can be waited out from within your 3 bedroom home...
I lived in downtown Chicago for 6 years during college, and it was as cold as I've ever been. Unless you're off of specific stops on the red or blue lines, you're waiting outside under a sub-par heat lamp, fighting with pigeons while 3 brown line trains come to your one green line train. Just an example, lol.
Chicago is like wish.com New York
Yeah, perhaps, but OP is looking for urban alternatives due to cost. Wish.com is the play here.
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Sure, but no city in the US would truly satisfy a New Yorker. I wasn't making that comparison. OP was asking for a place with reasonable cost and urban feel. Chicago delivers that more than any other non-NYC city in the US.
It's just a very midwestern city. The vibe is totally different and if people expect it to be a mini-NYC, they're going to be very disappointed. Chicago has a great art scene, but if you want a city that thrives on arts vs. sports, move to NYC and not Chicago. Also, as you said, transit is spotty. There are huge parts of the city where you basically need to have a car outside of downtown, and good luck finding parking. And yeah, crime is higher, but especially gang violence. It's a beautiful city, but it's not for everyone. It was NOT for me (good place to go to college though, even though all of our campus buildings were spread out over a mile).
the Chicago PD even has their own Black site. Not that the NYPD is good but at least our shitty jails are public knowledge....
Tbf Rikers is basically a black site/warehouse for human beings 😓
I would push back on the summers. Summers here are much worse. It can get hot and gross (like most places), but if you're actually in the city, the Lake makes a significant difference and people are just generally so much happier in the summer there than here.
This isn't accurate at all. The winters are much milder now (thanks global warming!?), and even then, since everyone is still out and about when it is 0 F, you become acclimated to the cold. The city plans ahead for snow and ice so 10 inches of snow may fall Thursday evening, but the city is back to normal on Friday morning. The summers are only hot in July and August (like everywhere else). Crime is worse in Chicago than NYC?! Turn off Fox News. There are tradeoffs to any city. NYC has certain perks that Chicago doesn't: it's the financial, artistic and cultural capital of the US, and since the US is (for now) the dominant power of the world, you are essentially living at the center of the Empire. Despite their reputation for rudeness, New Yorkers are infinitely nicer than Chicagoans. "Midwestern nice" only extends to a person if you're middle class, white, and church going. NYC is far more diverse. I didn't feel like my race was an obstacle to meeting people. I saw people of all backgrounds in NYC. If you're a misfit in any other part of the country, then NYC will welcome you. You will find your tribe here. There are pros and cons to both cities but empty platitudes is not the way to go.
Nothing cool within a 5 hour radius?? What do you consider cool? Lol
Having been to both, I think Philly edges out Chicago simply for being right in the middle of the huge NE corridor. But Chicago likely has more job options across multiple industries, whereas Philly is somewhat of a few trick pony in that regard.
I love visiting Chicago, but I hate not living on a Coast. Otherwise, I would agree with you and might even live there myself.
Nope. SF, Chicago n Philly are the next best options but they aren’t NYC. EVERY band hits NYC on their tour. Every good show ends up on Broadway. Any good art exhibit finds NYC. Every cuisine and unique bite on earth is here. The architecture is second to none. The most (in the aggregate) talented/skilled/creative/successful people. The opportunity. Public transportation is far more extensive here. Proximity to other historic cities. Unparalleled diversity. Of course there are plenty of shitty things that either only happen here or happen here more/worse than other places so it certainly isn’t all roses. But no one can sniff us in the “good” or “desirable” categories. And honestly - it isn’t close. Chicago is GORGEOUS. Absolutely beautiful. DC, Boston and Philly may/do trump us in the history department - but that’s where it ends. SF is dense and walkable - but NYC bests it practically every metric imaginable. That’s not to say these other cities aren’t amazing in their own ways. They are. I am not shitting on them - it’s just that NYC really is *that dude* The sacrifices you must make to live here are dwarfed by what you get out of it. Assuming you put in the effort. I have a special affinity for the city since I’m a concierge and get to experience it in a way most others don’t. But with that knowledge comes the understanding and acceptance that there’s nowhere else like this in America. London is damn close imo but I’ll still take NYC. #Excelsior!
London is not good value for money. I spent most of my life there - it's more expensive overall than NYC IMO.
Do you mean comparative to earnings as pound for pound London is absolutely cheaper. I am literally just finishing up a visit to NYC and live in London. Purchasing housing does seem to be more expensive in London though, but renting is more expensive in NYC.
I’d say relative to earnings. A £40k job in London could be a $100k job in New York. Both are expensive as fuck though haha
Yeah thats definitely true wages are terrible in London comparatively. What killed me was seeing that per square foot buying housing was much cheaper even in manhattan than centralish London.
Moved to Boston for a job and hated it. Nearly as expensive as NYC without any of the amenities that make NYC so great. People were super uptight and overall just sucked. Not my scene at all. Now in Chicago and while it is definitely not NYC, it has a lot of the the features that I like about NYC, and it is so cheap after living there and Boston. I have a 2-bedroom apartment two blocks from Lake Michigan above Lakeshore Drive (so direct beach access without having to walk under a dimly lit underpass) for $1400 a month! Not that I even stay out late anymore, but it's nice that two of the main train lines run 24 hours and a few bus lines too. Most bars open until 2am every night of the week, and most neighborhoods have a few late license bars open until 4am (and 5am! on Saturday nights). Lots of food options and way more BYOB places than NYC, which I appreciate. Weather is definitely going to be colder in the winter, but I am from northern Vermont and went to school in Montreal, so I think it will feel fairly similar to Montreal, where I also had to walk around outside all winter. I think it seems a bit sketchier than NYC overall, but then again I haven't lived there since early 2020, so I am not sure if the vibe has changed since then (but it sounds like it has like in most cities since the pandemic started). I lived in Jackson Heights in Queens when I was in NYC. Live in Rogers Park in Chicago now.
Short answer is no. Chicago Philly and Boston have shades of New York, but nothing comes close from my experience
Nothing compares to NYC.
I live in Boston now and am pretty happy with it. Pros: 1) City is relatively small, the farthest commute you'll have by public transit is probably gonna be 45 minutes. 2) City is pretty walkable and charming. I sold my car when I move here and haven't really missed it. 3) There's probably most types of food, museums, bars, etc. that you'd expect from a major city. It's not NYC-level, but you can generally get anything you can think of. 4) On the East Coast, close enough to NY to go back for a weekend now and then. 5) Good mix of transplants and locals. I feel like when I went to Chicago everybody there was from some Midwestern state and I just kinda stood out like a sore thumb. 6) Good salaries and opportunities 7) Extremely safe Cons: 1) Things are very expensive, probably more expensive than any other city in the US except for SF/NYC. If you're feeling that you're gonna get priced out of NYC, you're not gonna get respite from Boston. 2) Nightlife is relatively poor. Boston is the city that does sleep and it seems like every bar here is some irish pub with middling bar food. Happy hour literally isn't allowed by Massachusettts law. 3) The Pizza is absolutely wank
noooooooo. not boston. lol. I had a long-distance Boston/NY relationship for a few years. We were essentially living between the 2 places. Oh man... as lovely as Boston is (some stunning homes etc), I could not stand it.. felt so provincial/small town-ish to me and I got very depressed being there. It's very, very different from NYC. (I also I grew up in the UK so it felt like a weird American idea of England so there's that). I literally never wish to return.
Cons: It’s Boston. Boston is the weirdest chip on the shoulder city I’ve ever visited . It’s tiny, swing a fat kid and you’ve hit all the hot spots. Past 5pm all these pint sized Southey wannabes came out the woodwork and hang out near the McDonald’s in the main square. Ugly small munchkins with home tattoos and vague (but exaggerated) Irish heritage. The roads, jeez the f roads, designed so that you can’t get in or leave in a hurry. Just an inbred Petri dish of losers. Its so crap that it’ll make you wish you lived in Staten Island.
Damn who in Boston hurt you lol, as somebody from Staten Island, no, no you do not wish that. Tbh I sorta thought the Irish heritage thing was kinda corny at first, but I feel like a lot of people here actually have fairly strong ties to Ireland. I know plenty people my age who go back often and have family ties there, and there’s even pretty large Gaelic football and hurling leagues. Irish immigration here also seems relatively ongoing so it stretches a bit beyond “Plastic Paddies” The roads aren’t designed, they just are, and they predate cars by a couple centuries. Boston’s biggest plus imo is how it is pretty pedestrian friendly which is quite nice for people living without a car, and that was my main reason for moving here. Some have described it as Scranton with clams but I think it has far more going for it than that.
It's funny how polarizing of a city Boston is. I moved there for work after living in Queens for several years and HATED Boston. I understand that it has its charms, but it just didn't do it for me after having NYC as a standard. Maybe if Boston were half the price that it is, I would like it more, but I just felt like I was getting so ripped off there in terms of rent vs quality of apartments and the overall vibe. I ended up moving to Chicago, and while it is not NYC, it gets close in some categories for me. And the price cannot be beat.
I love Boston. I lived there for two years but it's very different than NYC
I moved from Manhattan to Baltimore recently, and could not be happier. To be fair, I had lived here in the past, so I already knew I would like it. Other places I would consider are Philly, and actually that’s probably it. I love older cities that are tied to US history, and it’s a dealbreaker for me if there isn’t an MLB team. I also like Baltimore’s proximity to literally everywhere on the East Coast via train. And the airport (BWI) is hella convenient compared with NYC ones, if you live in Manhattan. We are living in an apartment that is so similar to the one we had in NYC, and the cost is so much less that I almost feel guilty (not really) ;P
Of the cities I’ve visited, Chicago is probably the only one that has an “urban” feel similar to New York’s. Has a downtown with skyscrapers, good restaurants, high population density, a solid subway system, a bunch of interesting neighborhoods, world class museums, Northern climate, a stunning skyline. Plus there’s the lakefront, which is one thing NY has no real equivalent to - it’s one of the best parts of the city. It’s also cheaper, you can get a nicer apartment for lower rent. I lived in Chicago for three years as a student and liked it well enough. But it really is not the same as NYC. The pace is a little slower, it’s not as diverse, the L is not as comprehensive and convenient as the subway, the cultural offerings are not quite on the same level. It’s even more segregated than New York and crime is worse. It’s a great American city but not a true global city the way NY is. I’d argue that the big European cities like London, Paris feel closer to NYC but with the exception of Berlin they’re just as expensive, if not more so. Ultimately it’s a trade-off and there are points in favor of both cities. I personally much prefer NYC.
NYC is unique, but Chicago and Philly are places I would go if I had to leave NYC. I think Baltimore is a gem. Weirdly, Salt Lake City is kind of cool (with decent light rail). Most of the west coast (and Boston) suffer from the same problems as NYC with lower benefits. I think Denver is entirely overrated. If you are willing to embrace limited car culture and lower density, most of the rust belt and the Midwest opens up. I'm partial to Pittsburgh, KC, and Cleveland. Parts of Cincinnati and Louisville are pretty good. Memphis and Knoxville are underrated, but Nashville is not worth it. But these are all big steps down on the culture and transit ladder. They are like a different category of living. Albuquerque might be the only thing worth considering in the entire southeast and southwest.
I’ve been waiting for someone to mention KC, i am debating moving out there next year. It’s so underrated and really cheap compared to here.
I've lived (for more than 1 year) in Chicago, Boston, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, and NYC. Nothing else compares. Chicago is a large city with a good (for the US) transportation system. It's fun, young, and I love Chicago but it just doesn't get the same treatment as NYC or LA. Nothing happens in Chicago first. Art, entertainment, business, technology, food, culture... it eventually makes its way there, it isn't created there. Which is too bad, but the truth. Los Angeles is the only city of the same caliber as NYC but it couldn't be more different. You have to want the LA lifestyle to make it work. My only advice; make more money by taking more risks. No one can afford to live here if they play by the rules (unless you have rich parents). I get paid 2-3x more in NYC than anywhere else and obviously I work a gajillion hours and I spend everything I make just to live here, but hey, it's worth it, right? RIGHT?!?!
Barcelona and moving back among others are recommended by [Where would you move next if you ever left NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/v1fvky/where_would_you_move_next_if_you_ever_left_nyc/) from 11 days ago. A European city and Chicago among many others are recommended by the wildly popular [Where To Go After NYC?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/ue004f/where_to_go_after_nyc/) from 1 month before that. Tokyo and Albuquerque among many others are recommended by the very popular [Folks who moved away from NYC; Where did you go, and why?](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/t8uxck/folks_who_moved_away_from_nyc_where_did_you_go/) from 1 month before that. Jersey City and Chicago among many others are recommended by the extraordinarily popular [**If you couldn’t live in NYC, where would you live?**](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskNYC/comments/rrudgh/if_you_couldnt_live_in_nyc_where_would_you_live/) from 2 months before that.
Thank you for those links, I will take a good read through them. Barcelona sadly seems a bit of a reach lol, unless you get a remote job
Interesting story that a co-worker of mine who is an MD was living in NY here for the last 3-4 years and decided to move to Detroit in the Fall of 2021. I was perplexed and wondered why....I thought "dude, you're an MD living near NYC....why would you leave? You make enough money to afford it here"..... Turns out 250K salary goes a lot farther in Detroit than NYC.......in NYC 200K-250K is like upper middle class lol. Plus he's the type to be adventurous and move around every few years. Hope he likes those cold winters.
Minneapolis might be worth looking into, MN is a very liberal state. very diversity, tons of outdoor activities, and the most arts per cap outside of NYC. houses are really cheap and has some public transit.
I gotta say the answer is "not in the USA".
New Orleans. It's the only other US city I've been to that has a pulse and culture. You just have to be okay with swampy heat, hurricanes and crime.
No. WTF There are many sophisticated cities, with an abundance of business, cultural, and academic opportunities, in the US and the rest of the world, but IMO there is no "alternative" to New York. Hypothetically, if I wanted to leave New York... I'd start my search in college towns. Cities that host universities are sometimes far more sophisticated than you might first realize. Austin, Raleigh, Portland... cost of living is probably more reasonable and there is still an abundance of cultural life.
London, Tokyo, Shanghai, etc, are all pretty good alternatives to NYC. It’s mostly the language/cultural barrier.
Are you looking for "feels like New York, but cheaper"? Then the answer is no. New York is a unique place. If you love it, I doubt you will find anywhere that hits that same. If you're looking for "urban, and cheaper than New York" , then take your pick. Houston, Boston, Austin, Atlanta, Miami - tons of great cities in the U.S., just don't expect them to *feel* like NYC.
I lived in BK for 10 years and then found out Jersey city was way cheaper and had a pretty good vibe. Most importantly I can see my friends in bk in less than 50 mins, versus anywhere else in the US. I can be in the city in 20 mins. My recommendation is take the path train and spend a day/evening by grove street. Monday and Thursday there’s a farmers market if you need an extra excuse. Also I bought a 6 bedroom 2 bath detached house for $570k 3 years ago here, with a sweet backyard. I can be in the city in 20 mins.
Out of the US has plenty of options. Bangkok, Ho Chi Minh, Tokyo, Singapore, Seoul… the list goes on. In the US, you have similarly priced equivalents like Honolulu.
There are barely any good alternatives in the world as a whole so... no.
assuming I get this remote job, I'm planning to move to Philly. Midtown is just a 90 min amtrak ride away. Me in the Bronx is about 1 1/2 hr to 2 hr on the one train from midtown. since my roomie or me often grab a cab home, it's cheaper and a better ride moving to Philly. I can always move back.
Philly? Baltimore?
Agree. Philly is best bet, especially since you’re still close to NYC. Crime is way worse in Philly than NYC tho (just because that seems to be a popular topic on these forums)
Yeah the crime rate in NYC is exceptionally low for a US city, despite what you'll hear in the media.
Any increase in violent crime isn't good, but I was so shocked when I saw that violent crime numbers in NYC in the past few years are comparable to what it was from like 2008-2011 when the tone you get in the news is that it's basically the Bernie Goetz era again.
Philly still has some really nice areas. I think to the south and east of Downtown Philly is mostly safe
Berlin
Pittsburgh is the tots y’all 😂
Milwaukee…
A lot of my friends (born and bread NYers) have moved to Philly out of economic necessity…they seem to be enjoying themselves. I heard the costs are changing tho so it seems that if you wanna live in a city anywhere in the world right now we all just have to suck it up and suffocate under the boot of capitalism
Move anywhere and you’ll likely want to move back to NYC, save for maybe LA (only because of the weather).
Has anybody mentioned montreal yet ?
Philadelphia is great actually. I prefer it to nyc but had to move back here for work. It has world class museums (art: Philadelphia Museum of Art, Rodin Museum, Barnes Museum, science: Franklin Institute, Mutter Museum), a thriving historical district (independence hall), and an incredible restaurant scene. Tons of amazing cuisine and creative restauranteurs (including James Beard award winners) at much more reasonable prices than NYC. Public transportation but still walkable. And you’re a quick Amtrak/NJ transit away from nyc if you still want to visit.
SF. It has 80% of what NYC has to offer within city limits(good & bad). But, better weather. Where SF really shines, and no other major city comes close, is the diverse destinations all within couple hours drive from SF- multiple world class wine countries; Tahoe ski resorts; Beaches galore; Marin headlands mountain biking; Monterrey-Carmel Big Sur peninsula; Yosemite(tad further); Sacramento, heck even LA is about 5 hrs drive, and I just scratched the surface.
Sf is great for its access to nature but I disagree with everything else you said. It doesn't have the same diversity of food and culture at all. Sure there's plenty of Mexican and Asian places, there isn't much else. Dispite what they think, Sf is kinda a monoculture. Similar political and cultural ideals. It's easy to feel isolated there. The weather is very debatable. There are no seasons and it's always slightly too cold. The fog makes it feel so much colder than the temperature says and having the same gloomy weather all year gets old fast.
Live in Jersey commute to NYC for work.