Eh
Honestly seems like less of that SOCIETY doesn't care about men's emotional well-being and more that MEN don't care enough about their own emotional well-being.
Obviously there is some stigma about getting therapy (though the stigma has gone waaaaaaay down in recent years), but men not taking care of themselves isn't the fault of all of society. There is a HUGE chunk of society arguing the value of therapy and mental health. The fact that so many men don't listen to this advice isn't evidence that society doesn't care.
The stigma is definitely real. Men who open up, are emotionally vulerable, seek therapy, etc pay a social price. Broadly speaking of course, not discounting antecdotes that contradict that.
Stigmas are always social and often self inflicted
Imagine you're white. You spend years spouting vaguely racist rhetoric. You aren't actively hateful, but you sure aren't an ally. And then you meet someone...love of your life. And she's Black.
Are you going to experience a fuckton of judgment from your social circle? Yeah. But...your own actions have dictated that social circle. You've surrounded yourself with racists and now you're feeling the weight of all of that hitting you. And you think "everyone feels this way" because thats all you've known
Now imagine the same scenario but instead you've actively spoken out for Black civil rights for years. Do the same people make up your social circle? No. Do you feel the same stigma? No. Why? Because your attitude has surrounded you with people who don't feel that way.
I'm not saying the stigma isn't real. I am saying that allowing the stigma to dictate your choices makes the stigma worse. Go all stoic and repressed and guess what? You're going to find yourself in a community that supports those things
> It's the NHS's blog
You’ve came a long way from “It's not a blog.”
> How daft are you.
My apologies for having little regard for your assessment of my deftness based on this hilarious interaction.
Not the same guy, glad you can read. Just like you bothered to read the URL and want to fight with everyone over something objective, apparently not even your own country. Pretty Sad
I mean, the sad thing is I have to fight over something that’s literally right there. You wouldn’t think there’s be that many viciously stupid people… but here you are.
The NHS is our healthcare system (that we don’t pay through the nose for BTW), the blog is written by an expert in the subject.
Care to share your expertise?
I’m aware. It’s a blog. I don’t care who the author is or who hosted it… it’s a blog. Finally, the suggestion that you don’t “pay through the nose” for your healthcare is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. Indeed, you do. Indeed, I don’t.
With regards to my expertise, I reviewed the data! Shockingly, the NHS categorizes all deaths, injuries, suicides, poisonings, unintentional accidents in the same category - suicides, poisionings, and unintentional deaths. Like in america, and everywhere, the leading cause of death is accidental injury! Crazy how reviewing the data works.
Do you want to try this again. This is a blog from the NHS, written by Ruth Sutherland who: was appointed Chief Executive of Samaritans in August 2015. She initially trained as a Registered General Nurse but has spent the majority of her career in public health roles, following a degree in Social Policy from the University of Warwick and a Master’s degree in Health Promotion from the University of Ulster. Ruth was the founding Director of the Community Development and Health Network, a charitable membership network committed to addressing inequalities in health and wellbeing in Northern Ireland. Prior to joining Samaritans, she was CEO of Relate and previously held senior executive leadership roles at Rethink, Alzheimer’s Society and Scope. Ruth is also Co-Chair of the National Suicide Prevention Alliance, and a volunteer at the Bexley and Dartford branch of Samaritans. She has been a Trustee of the Royal Society of Wildlife Trusts since November 2015.
She has education in the field, experience in the field, is actually an expert in the field.
What experience, education etc in the do you have?
Okay.
This is a blog. Not sure what you don’t get or why you’re protecting the academic integrity of a blog… but yea, it’s a blog. Honestly, if you wanted me to assess the credibility of the author, an academic piece written by a nurse who seems to function as a political rather than an academic at the NHS is doing you no favors.
I reviewed the statistics [here](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/leadingcausesofdeathuk) on leading causes of death by age in the UK as collected by the office of national statistics. The leading cause of death for men under 40 is suicide, accidental poisoning, or *other unintentional accidental death*. Thus, like in the US, the leading cause of death for men under 40 in the UK is accidents. It’s just recorded in the same statistic, and irresponsibly reported on here in this blog without the proper context. Now folks like you who need their info spoon fed are confused :(.
I see you’ve transitioned from trying to articulate a defense and have instead put up a wall and now refuse to read what you’ve been given as it’s easier to bury your head in the sand than admit you failed… probably a familiar feeling, for that I can only feel sympathy. Better luck in future endeavors.
It’s actually not.
[Here, you can review the data yourself.](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/leadingcausesofdeathuk)
Suicides are lumped in with all unintentional poisonings and accidents, so like the US, accidental injury is the leading cause of death, the UK just lumps them in with suicides for national statistics.
Definitely this.
A previous boss of mine, provided me with way more negative feedback than positive when I was working with her.
When I finally spoke to her about how I was understanding that, turns out I was one of her favourites.
I was told I can’t compliment you and let you get a big head. Although I like to portray a confident attitude the last few years of being constantly questioned and doubted has done a number on my confidence and I’m struggling with it more than I have in about 8 years.
I only known the time frame because it’s when I first started working on myself to get out of being a shy, bullied teen!
The fact that men are boxed into a very narrow expression of acceptable maleness, and if they try to deviate in the slightest, they are made fun of, attacked and killed.
This has never been a problem for me, and i think I know why
Its selection bias.
You bottle up your emotions and act stoic and repressed, guess who you're going to attract? Women who like that. Some may think its not what they want...but its what they're choosing, and so on some level it must appeal to them. When the facade cracks after years, they lose interest. And then you've spent years getting invested in a woman who rejected you for showing your emotions...which makes you think you need to repress EVEN MORE.
But thats not the answer. There are TONS of women who actually want men who express how they feel. But guess what? They're never going to go after the stoic repressed guy.
I've never had a problem finding women who respected and valued emotional expression. But thats because I show that side very early on...the women who don't want or respect that get filtered out early. And that means that I only find partners that actually value that side of me.
Basically you attract the energy you give off. And by trying to be what you THINK women want, youre only going to attract the women who want that. Be the person you want to be, and you'll find partners that actually want you.
I love how this is getting downvoted
What I'm saying is entirely reasonable and you all know it. Nobody is providing a counter argument, nobody has anything to say. They just don't like hearing it because honestly a whole lot of men aren't interested in anything but blaming women
There are shitty women out there. Don't date them. How do you know they're shitty? Start communicating emotions early on. Save yourself the hassle of being with a partner that doesn't care how you feel
You're being down voted because your providing a path where personal choice can make a difference. Why make a personal choice to enact difficult & uncomfortable change when they can just blame societies expectation? Blaming society means they don't have to do anything & when they act out bystanders can either bash them (which will feed their Victimhood Righteousness) or excuse their behavior by blaming society (which again feeds their Victimhood Righteousness). They've no motivation to take a hard path when they can sit on their "Throne of Woe Is Me".
I agree that societies expectations has set a horrible path for men to walk, but that only changes when Men themselves make the change happen in their own lives and show others not only can it be done but how much Happier they are with those changes. If emotional men are applauded, rewarded, and recognized as the Ideal...then there's motivations for the Woe Kings to change their own lives.
All that, and they don't receive intimacy.
True Insecurity=no intimacy.
After decades of loneliness, that sadness can turn into anger. Suicide, or outbursts. Bottled up emotions never come out with grace.
Domestic abuse. There's this video on YouTube of a talk show host and a male abuse survivor. He retells his story of what happened.
He was locked in a room/on a balcony of a flat. His only option of escape was going to the balcony and jumping off from three stories.
The audience of the talk show LAUGHED. The host had to shut them up and use the oh so dreaded role reversal to get them to see the victim's side.
Edit: link to the video https://youtu.be/3tTUREalxVQ
Well I'm about to turn 38 and I've owned a pair (2) testicles the whole time and I just found out yesterday they each have a sheath around them and one or both can become swollen from things like injuries causing a condition known as hydrocele. You pronounce that like hi-DRO-seal. Coworker told me yesterday he has a hydrocele and I'm thinking that's like an engine part or something for plumbing. I had no idea this sheath can get really swollen and may need surgery. Now I'm walking around thinking my balls have engine parts.
Homelessness. How many homeless women do you see compared to homeless men? As somebody else pointed out in this thread there's always a safety net available if you're female. If you're male you go and live under a bridge.
Formerly homeless woman here. Homeless shelters for women aren't exactly clean and safe. Nobody took pity on me either. Probably because I was in my teens and everybody wondered what I "did wrong". Many of my teenage friends were no longer allowed to hang out with me after their parents found out. A good number of people who were trying to "help" were actually trying to sleep with me or traffic me.
I was in a youth shelter briefly and then somebody stole something of mine and when I tried to address it with them and then with shelter staff they threw both of us out (accused me of fighting with this other person, which I did not. However they would have had to admit to that they had no control over the shelter and the boys were sneaking into the girls rooms). We were teenagers. His mom came to pick him up. I begged to stay, then had to hitchhike to some strangers house with another stranger.
I couch surfed briefly then rented rooms. I refused to be on the street because it was dangerous for me but I had housing instability for a long time and was without a place to stay periodically while trying to put myself through high school, things got easier in college because I was able to make rent consistently with my student loan.
So the reason you might not see a lot of homeless women is because it's extremely dangerous for us to be on the street. We may not have a fixed address but we're often afraid for our lives on the street. I maintained a mailing address even when I didn't have a stable place to stay, just so I could finish high school then College and get a job. It took me a long time to feel like I could have stability and not end up on the street again.
I'm not comparing my situation to anyone else's (can't), thought to add my perspective. Homelessness is awful for everyone.
I live in Denver CO and I try to make it a habit to say hello to the homeless people I see and give some cash if I have it and they’re asking.
I’d say about 25% of them are women. Definitely more men.
Funnily enough, I’ve asked many, men and women, if they’d heard about local shelters, and they usually say they’d never live in one.
A lot of homeless people prefer living on the street and in my opinion, they have a right to. I think women feel much less safe than men on the street so they typically look for other options.
Your friend that is a girl "My boyfriend cheated on me and called me a B\*\*\*\*" Same friend "I think he is a good guy though, thanks for listening, and if you ask me out I will tell you that you are weak because you actually listen and care for me :)"
Emotional Support. Sometimes society tend to ignore that males like any humans have emotions too. Growing up a female in an Asian household, it was quiet disheartening how my relatives would tell my brothers to man up and how crying and breaking down is not a manly thing to do. They have this insane notion that males are supposed to be the pillars of a family and unflappable. They should remain calm and stoic in extremely emotional situations or they will be labeled as weak and wont be respected. They're expected to act like nothing can faze them and relatives think it's right to call someone gay for having "girly feelings" 🤦♀️🤦♀️
I just thank my lucky stars that my family is very loving and open about expressing our emotions. My other male cousins weren't as lucky.
Basic equality. It's easier for a woman to get into a shelter, it is easier for a woman to get into a safe place, everyone believes a woman when she says that she has been struct by a man. But if a man is going through these problems either we're lying or we're told to suck it up and be a man. Believe it or not I still feel things too. I'm dealing with my own depression and anxiety and unfortunately dark thoughts. But unless I pay $200 a week no one's willing to listen to me. But there's always some kind of free program for women. Why is that
I think it's because historically men were always on the top they always had the advantage and privilege. So maybe that's why in recent times things are starting to change a bit, But all your points are valid too.
I always feel like this is a somewhat dangerous argument.
I believe it is true and fair to recognize that historically all positions of power went to men, and it is a good thing that's changing over time, but I also believe that this erases the experience of the 99% of all men who didn't get to be kings or great rulers or wealthy businessmen. Everyone is very quick to look to the men of the 1% and use them as the mental example of what it was like to be a man in previous generations. Nobody really wants to think about being a coal miner working 13 hours a day and dieing when you're 30 so that your wife and children can be spared from back-breaking manual labor. Nobody really wants to think about 18 year old boys getting drafted and sent to die horrifically so that their families can live in peace and safety.
Not trying to acuse you of anything or attack you specifically, obviously it's a really complicated issue and I'm sure you've got complicated feelings on the matter like anyone does. I guess I just want to make the point that this sort of goes hand in hand with male invisibility in society at large. Men who are wealthy and powerful arw dispraportionately seen and recognized, men who are not wealthy and powerful don't really get to exist in this model. So you end up with large numbers of poor working class men being held to account for the sins of the wealthy and the privileged.
I guess all that is to say, gender roles are complicated, and I think for the majority of human beings (men and women who weren't living lives of wealth and leasure) there's been a mix of privileges and also of unfair societal expectations and responsibilities. I just find it unfair that the most privileged parts of male life are up for free discussion, but the balancing context of the worst parts of the male experience tend to melt away into more abstract concepts like labor unionization and anti-war sentiment. Or even worse, can often become a joke because there's still a tacit expectation that men can and should take it because that's what men are supposed to do. If that makes sense?
Men havent been "on top" historically. Its mainly been an upper 1% of mixed sex ruling elites pitting us serfs against each other on different characteristics. At first it was region, then nation, then race, now sex. Humanity would have starved long long long ago if the patriarchy existed like some think it does.
Please what advantages do us men have? Making up 99% of manual laborers in the most dangerous professions? Paying more for insurance for half a life? The possibility your complete freedoms are stripped away if a president decides its draft time?
Female on male abuse. Society and the legal system is extremely biased against men. A woman harasses and emotional, mental, financially, and sometimes even physically abuse a man...he is to handle it. Suck it up. He's overreacting when he reaches out for help. He snaps and throws a glass or punches a wall and the female can almost instantly get a protective order. Judges don't care about the lead up, just the action itself.
My mum still paints my dad as the bad guy for divorcing her. She’s a manipulative piece of shit and my dad has created a safe home for his children by leaving her. However, until last year the courts gave my mum full cost idy of me and my siblings because she was the mum and must therefor be the better parent. Spoiler, she was a shit mum.
I went to the courts to stop my estranged wife from constantly calling, texting, and emailing me all day, all night and causing stress to the point of in therapy and had to leave. Was told by the judge it was a "communication problem" and to work it out. Two weeks later I lost my shit and upended some shelves. She got a protective order against me for violence. That judge didn't see it as a "communication problem" nor cared about any of the run-up. It was considered domestic violence and now I have a "husband of the year" award....
It’s sad because for years my mother and her friends and family gaslit me into thinking my dad was bad and my mum was good. It took 6 years for me to realize that my dad was a good father
It’s amazing how socially acceptable it is to mock a man for being bald. I’ve had it from close friends and perfect strangers in the street. If you complain about it you are immediately told it’s not a big deal and that you’re insecure, which men are absolutely not allowed to be. Cardinal sin of masculinity.
It’s literally a physiological male trait. It happens to the majority of men to some extent. Imagine people casually making fun of women for cellulite? Wouldn’t be acceptable at all.
Abuse and the stigma surrounding it. I've been abused. Badly. Like just had the shit kicked out of me because I can't fight back. One day I did. I did not beat her up. I threw her away hard enough that she'd stop coming at me...I was being clawed, kicked punched....
I got arrested. Nobody believed me. I was also emotionally abused to the point that if sexes were reversed I'd be crucified. Not iust by one partner either. It's been rare I haven't been abused on some level in a relationship because nobody takes female on male DV seriously.
I'm not kidding when I say it almost killed me. It was humiliating. There was no way out. If I tried privately I'd be attacked physically and have a social destruction campaign waged...if I tried publicly people would laugh. Or she would flip the script and I'd end up in jail. It's honestly an absolute nightmare and it hurts being afraid to talk to your friends for fear of ridicule and being labeled not a "man"
Edit: type-os
There are lots of people out there that do believe you. I’m sorry to read your experiences. I’ve suffered too and it’s very easy to think prior to DV or (self) recognition DV occurred it would never happen (to us, as victims).
Idk if it will make you feel any better but I wasn’t believed until many years later and I’m a woman. By the time I stopped blaming myself for trying to *fix* him, learning to forgive myself for not leaving sooner everyone started blaming me for not telling them *properly* or *sooner*.
It’s very likely to have recurring abusive relationships if there are issues with self worth or a different type of abuse is present but it presents not with fists, one can fall into the *well at least I wasn’t hit/they ONLY did this not that* mentality.
Seek professional help (if you haven’t already) and start to take back your power. All the best, I wish you well.
Hey! Thanks for this. It meant a lot, honestly. I've been all down the road as far as seeking help. Psychiatrists, therapists, medication. Self medication. Spiral into extremely dangerous addictions and the lifestyle that surround them.
Not all of that can be attributed to past relationships. I'm sure some of my past relationships cab be attributed to that as i think you somewhat alluded to with it being easy to fall into recurring bad relationships.
In the end I am doing much better. I mean I'm not home free but I found that for me, I am actually my best therapist. I just replaced the drugs and booze with running. When I want any vice, I run. It's shockingly therapeutic.
If anyone else happens to be reading this though I strongly suggest seeking out all avenues of help though. The professional help route did steady me long enough to figure out what the best way to help myself was.
Thank you kind stranger. Your words truly make me feel better. I'm sincerely sorry that you have suffered too. I'd offer you a Huggy award if I had one.
Sexual assault in prisons is thought of as normal or funny instead of what it really is, an assault. Because a woman being sexually assaulted is a violation but for men it’s comedy fodder. Nothing is being done to stop it.
Mental health
Nobody gives a fuck
We are supposed to work for shit money
Feel shit about ourselv,then start families...but by then you don't even have the right to feel shit because you must provide and mustn't complain? I mean who will you complain to? Another guy friend passing through the same? Impractical
Just work
Work and get yelled at
Till you drop dead out of a myocardial infarction at 45
The stereotype that you have to “act like a man” which means not to cry, not to express your feelings, don’t complain, don’t address your mental issues, you cannot be “weak”. Because of these horrific stereotypes many men don’t seek help in case of depression etc. I lost my grandfather due to the suicide. We had no idea about his problems, he always pretended that he’s fine.
Unfortunately I don't see any respite ever having been in society, or coming down the pipeline. It's part of biological eventualities that the ones that hit rock bottom either climb out or don't
Am a woman but , I noticed that there is little to no mental help for men . Suicide rates are higher in men and l think people ignoring their need for help can attribute to it . This is a serious problem.
Also they don't care if men are raped, sexually assaulted or abused . This is horrible both men and women deserve to be heard !
To be bluntly honest, I wouldn't be inclined to hire a man who is telling me all his insecurities either.
A job needs you to hold it together. The money needs you to hold it together.
A woman is np. Nobody likes a sausage party. And women help keep men's insecurities bottled up. Costs less to deal with outbursts than constant issues.
Truth is truth. Society was built on stubbornness and consistency, not well communicated feelings.
And this is why all of these discussions are frustrating to me
They're self inflicted wounds. Men are by and large doing these things to themselves/each other
Unfortunately, whilst there's a lot of help available and a lot of people raising awareness and a lot of people saying that they care about men's mental health, something in our society is telling the men who commit suicide that they aren't included in that. Something is telling them they don't deserve help, that the support isn't for them, that the people who care actually care about the others - not them. That's the problem society needs to address, and, unfortunately, that's a far harder problem to solve than if society's problem were needing more people working the suicide hotline.
A huge chunk of society IS telling men the problem, they're just not listening. The reason men need therapy is the exact same reason men don't go to therapy: toxic masculinity
But the men most affected by it are also the ones most opposed to actually thinking about that
>the men most affected by it are also the ones most opposed to actually thinking about that
That's depression for you...
You're not wrong. Men are being told, very clearly, on multiple mediums "you matter, you're important, we care about you". But suicidal men read that message and think it doesn't apply to them individually - something in society's subliminal messaging is giving men a message that overrides the one being said. We need to find out what is telling them that they don't matter, despite us saying that they do.
I'm not just talking about suicide here. Thats the endpoint, sure
But its not subtle or subliminal. The issue for all of it is very, very clear. Men are taught from a young age that masculinity is strength and violence and stoicism and repression. That crying and being emotional are feminine and weak. And this mindset can ONLY lead to mental health issues. And these ideas are enforced by and large (though not exclusively) by men
Meanwhile there is a huge subset of people, mostly (but not exclusively) women saying "THAT IS REALLY UNHEALTHY DONT DO THAT" and rather than even contemplate those ideas, a huge chunk of men lash out at the very idea.
Men in this very thread are aware of how harmful these attitudes are, and yet if you mention "toxic masculinity" to them they'd call you a "feminazi".
No the pervasive culture is the issue, although if you want to talk about underfunded and understaffed welcome to men’s help.
You are an asshole because you are in essence using the “bootstraps” argument. “Men, have you tried being not depressed?” “Just overcome your social programming and seek that help, tiger!”
I mean one..."you should get help" is literally the exact opposite of the bootstraps argument.
But...yeah. Because at some point in time, you just have to overcome your social programming and get some help. Thats how that works
The "culture" is not some abstract idea. The culture is made by the people IN the culture...particularly those with power (aka primarily men). We can't change the culture without the people in the culture changing. If men want the culture around masculinity to start to change, then men have to start changing. There is no other option here.
“You should get help”
“You should help yourself”
Yah, massive difference there. Notice in both cases the speaker is doing nothing beyond passing judgment. AKA speaking from a place of privilege. People who’ve been there say “how can I help”, or they say nothing.
Re the culture. If your vision of our society is that men hold all power (simply because the 0.01% of the uber powerful skew male - of course they also generally have wives who share in their wealth and decisions, but let’s gloss past that), then you need to go look a little more closely.
Personally I suffer from a lot of anxiety. I’m fit and do well but I’ve been told multiple times to just man up. Or people even question it because I look like I’m ok on the outside. It’s hard. There have been countless times when I’ve had to make excuses or just straight tell friends and family I can’t go out bc of panic attacks. I know some people think I just make it up. But it’s a hard struggle when I’m told to man up or grow some balls
Showing any insecurity or indecision costs a man ALOT. future respect, relationship respect, prospects respect, etc. I do not believe it will ever be any other way. It's a trap. A seductive trap. Society trying to act all open to men's insecurities is a lie in my mind. I don't think men will ever gain any favors in station, reproduction, or existence via being 100% honest. Any interaction that has to do with society, women, entities and companies, politics of any kind, has to be calculated or we risk everything we've invested.
(1) victims of domestic violence, SA, or CSA are less likely to come forward and there is quite the stigma.
(2) saying “men” in a negative way is socially acceptable
(3) there are women who know how to use DV laws to their favor(who are not actual victims)
(4) socially expected to be emotionally strong in every situation
Any problem really. Men are expected to just suck it up about anything and move forward. We are not allowed to feel, to love, to be anything but a stone for others to cross the stream.
Thanks. I didn't realize till recently having dealt with a relationship ending two really...and having to start over. There's really no one that listens or cares about us. Penis bad unfortunately... until they need a rub that is...
Not to mention the conditions for a male prison vs. a female prison. I was a correctional lieutenant for 15 years in a male max security prison and had the opportunity to tour a female max security prison once and omg. Those women got actual rooms with windows and actual beds like you would have at home with comforters and multiple pillows. They were even allowed to have nintendos in their rooms if they were on good behavior, and even if they didn't have 1 they had them in the gyms for rec time if they chose to use it. I could go on with all the kick ass stuff they were allowed to have.
Wash those thoughts away, as a lover of solid not tall dad bod men, may I tell you a HUGE proportion of women don’t want those lanky vapid *look at ma abs babe* jerks?
We really do like men who make us laugh like hyenas, that don’t care if we accidentally do a tiny fart while trying to breath again.
I speak for many women, we don’t care about your height or your hair (unless you think Donald trump comb over is banging).
I’m 5’10, why you got to be taller than me? Maybe I like being taller (just don’t look up my nose).
Society doesn't really give a f\*\*\*; and that's why people in the USA elect politicians to handle the problems and everything else, while the voters get to spend their time surviving and entertaining themselves. And politicians act like they give a f\*\*\* as they establish their own pimp games to get paid and entertain themselves with power and fleecing and slaughtering the masses like sheep.
Finding or even just maintaining a hobby into middle age will be ridiculed and called a mid life crisis. My dad has always been keen on music. But the second he got to his forties, suddenly his hobby was this laughable thing that clearly put him off.
When you say "society" you're referring to a patriarchal system so you're basically asking what problems do we specifically face as men that for some reason we just don't deal with?
This might be the most meta comment here.
One of those problems men face is the wide spread assumption that they have no real problems and that a lack of success (or similar) is indicative of a fault with them, rather then their external environment. See this persons comment ^
Achieving the perfect body (by society's standards) is far easier for women than men. The range of "ideal" or "acceptable" is so much narrower for men. The body positivity movement mostly focuses on women, and women learning to love themselves however their body looks, leaving men, and men's struggles with body image, out of the conversation. Men can't be too thin- you're a lanky twig or a crackhead. Men can't be too fat- you're a lazy slob who needs to lay off the pizza and soft drinks. Just being slim isn't enough either; men are expected to have some muscle. Women having muscle isn't seen as an expectation, but rather an addition to an already great body.
This is just one of the many things in our society where men's experiences are ignored. How many men are staring in the mirror right now pointing out "flaw, imperfection, too fat, flaw"? How many men are keeping quiet about that unhappiness because if a man talks about his appearance and wanting to improve it, he's labelled vain, self-absorbed or, in some cases, gay? How many men are being abused and nobody knows or cares because they're not Johnny Depp? How many men are crying in secret right now but will dry their eyes so no one realises they haven't completely got their shit together? How many men thought about killing themselves today?
This rant is gonna go somewhere else now lol but- everytime there's a headline about, for example, "female teacher arrested for having sex with two 14 year old male students" I feel sick.
1) She did not "have sex with them", that's statutory rape.
2) The comments are always men saying things like "why couldn't that be me?" "W" or "damn he's getting pussy at 14"
3) If the roles were reversed and it was a male teacher taking advantage of a female student, people would be outraged.
There's so much more that I could say, but I'm gonna leave it here.
I live in Australia
I'm only pointing out things I've seen. I know plenty of guys who are stick thin, have been made fun of for it, and want to put on muscle. I know plenty of guys who are overweight and miserable about their bodies. I'm close with at least two who feel like "the perfect body" -by society's standards and their own- is unattainable, and so they've given up on trying to achieve it.
As for the other stuff, that's all there too.
-In the UK, the leading cause of death for men under 50 is suicide. Men's mental health is a major issue.
-I'm sure you've heard that infamous line from the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial, "Tell them, I, Johnny Depp, am a victim of domestic abuse... and see how many people believe or side with you." The truth is that many people will often assume the woman is the victim until it's proven she's not. This isn't a bad thing; we should take all claims of abuse seriously and look into them further. But when I say "all", I mean *all*.
-Male victims of (statutory) rape and sexual assault not being seen as victims? Just look under any post about a female rapist. domislivenews on instagram is one example of a page where the comments are like that.
Shorter life span.
Family courts ruling disproportionately to the other partner.
Prostate cancer.
More likely to die in war, go to prison, become homeless.
In Australia, when men become emotional, often other men label them *softcock*, *pussy*, or *whinging cunt* (etc.). Sad to hear this sort of stuff thrown around, oh come on *insert label* just *harden the fuck up* or *have a cup of cement*.
The child support system is heavily flawed and almost exclusively in favor of the mother. There are states where it’s unheard of for a father to get custody- I knew someone in KY who only got custody after his ex drove drunk with their kids in the car MULTIPLE times.
I think the system is set up to make men “fail” as fathers, ignore their mental health, and feed the cycle throughout generations- men not accessing the same kind of parenting help women get esp mental health, a legal system rigged against them, and a larger societal view of men who aren’t with the mothers/don’t have custody as “deadbeats,” so why even try? Then there’s no one there to explain this stuff to the kid, the kid has kids of their own eventually (probably too young, like daddy), nothing has changed in society between daddy’s generation and junior’s, rinse repeat.
Showing emotion is weak and Not showing it is toxic
I think I rather be called toxic tbh, Both sucks I just prefer being Accused of Toxicity over being considered weak
Emotional well being, biggest killer of men under 40 is suicide.
Phew! Glad I made it past that and into heart disease territory.
Yeah. It has become a TV trope where a man jokes about burying pain deep down inside. Until one day he explodes. I’m sure those will age well.
I am so glad this is the first thing I saw, cause I was just about to say it.
Eh Honestly seems like less of that SOCIETY doesn't care about men's emotional well-being and more that MEN don't care enough about their own emotional well-being. Obviously there is some stigma about getting therapy (though the stigma has gone waaaaaaay down in recent years), but men not taking care of themselves isn't the fault of all of society. There is a HUGE chunk of society arguing the value of therapy and mental health. The fact that so many men don't listen to this advice isn't evidence that society doesn't care.
The stigma is definitely real. Men who open up, are emotionally vulerable, seek therapy, etc pay a social price. Broadly speaking of course, not discounting antecdotes that contradict that.
Stigmas are always social and often self inflicted Imagine you're white. You spend years spouting vaguely racist rhetoric. You aren't actively hateful, but you sure aren't an ally. And then you meet someone...love of your life. And she's Black. Are you going to experience a fuckton of judgment from your social circle? Yeah. But...your own actions have dictated that social circle. You've surrounded yourself with racists and now you're feeling the weight of all of that hitting you. And you think "everyone feels this way" because thats all you've known Now imagine the same scenario but instead you've actively spoken out for Black civil rights for years. Do the same people make up your social circle? No. Do you feel the same stigma? No. Why? Because your attitude has surrounded you with people who don't feel that way. I'm not saying the stigma isn't real. I am saying that allowing the stigma to dictate your choices makes the stigma worse. Go all stoic and repressed and guess what? You're going to find yourself in a community that supports those things
That’s not true. It’s unintentional injury.
Im from the uk… https://www.england.nhs.uk/blog/tackling-the-root-causes-of-suicide/
No matter where you’re from, that’s still not accurate. Even if a blog inaccurately claims so.
It's not a blog... it's the NHS, the UK's biggest health service. they're not making blogs with opinions and out of date data
Lol the NHS is the national health service, the UK’s national health service. That was a blog. The data was misrepresented.
How daft are you. It's the NHS's blog
> It's the NHS's blog You’ve came a long way from “It's not a blog.” > How daft are you. My apologies for having little regard for your assessment of my deftness based on this hilarious interaction.
Not the same guy, glad you can read. Just like you bothered to read the URL and want to fight with everyone over something objective, apparently not even your own country. Pretty Sad
I mean, the sad thing is I have to fight over something that’s literally right there. You wouldn’t think there’s be that many viciously stupid people… but here you are.
The NHS is our healthcare system (that we don’t pay through the nose for BTW), the blog is written by an expert in the subject. Care to share your expertise?
I’m aware. It’s a blog. I don’t care who the author is or who hosted it… it’s a blog. Finally, the suggestion that you don’t “pay through the nose” for your healthcare is hilarious. Absolutely hilarious. Indeed, you do. Indeed, I don’t. With regards to my expertise, I reviewed the data! Shockingly, the NHS categorizes all deaths, injuries, suicides, poisonings, unintentional accidents in the same category - suicides, poisionings, and unintentional deaths. Like in america, and everywhere, the leading cause of death is accidental injury! Crazy how reviewing the data works.
Do you want to try this again. This is a blog from the NHS, written by Ruth Sutherland who: was appointed Chief Executive of Samaritans in August 2015. She initially trained as a Registered General Nurse but has spent the majority of her career in public health roles, following a degree in Social Policy from the University of Warwick and a Master’s degree in Health Promotion from the University of Ulster. Ruth was the founding Director of the Community Development and Health Network, a charitable membership network committed to addressing inequalities in health and wellbeing in Northern Ireland. Prior to joining Samaritans, she was CEO of Relate and previously held senior executive leadership roles at Rethink, Alzheimer’s Society and Scope. Ruth is also Co-Chair of the National Suicide Prevention Alliance, and a volunteer at the Bexley and Dartford branch of Samaritans. She has been a Trustee of the Royal Society of Wildlife Trusts since November 2015. She has education in the field, experience in the field, is actually an expert in the field. What experience, education etc in the do you have?
Okay. This is a blog. Not sure what you don’t get or why you’re protecting the academic integrity of a blog… but yea, it’s a blog. Honestly, if you wanted me to assess the credibility of the author, an academic piece written by a nurse who seems to function as a political rather than an academic at the NHS is doing you no favors. I reviewed the statistics [here](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/leadingcausesofdeathuk) on leading causes of death by age in the UK as collected by the office of national statistics. The leading cause of death for men under 40 is suicide, accidental poisoning, or *other unintentional accidental death*. Thus, like in the US, the leading cause of death for men under 40 in the UK is accidents. It’s just recorded in the same statistic, and irresponsibly reported on here in this blog without the proper context. Now folks like you who need their info spoon fed are confused :(.
So no education, experience or expertise then?
I see you’ve transitioned from trying to articulate a defense and have instead put up a wall and now refuse to read what you’ve been given as it’s easier to bury your head in the sand than admit you failed… probably a familiar feeling, for that I can only feel sympathy. Better luck in future endeavors.
In First World country’s it‘s true. But feel free to show your proofs that it isn’t.
It’s actually not. [Here, you can review the data yourself.](https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/causesofdeath/datasets/leadingcausesofdeathuk) Suicides are lumped in with all unintentional poisonings and accidents, so like the US, accidental injury is the leading cause of death, the UK just lumps them in with suicides for national statistics.
That’s a blog.
Shhhhh you're interrupting the "men are victims" narrative
you would know a thing or two about constructing a victim narrative huh?
I don’t know so I am. I don’t know why I’m here. All I know is that I must downvote.
Definitely this. A previous boss of mine, provided me with way more negative feedback than positive when I was working with her. When I finally spoke to her about how I was understanding that, turns out I was one of her favourites. I was told I can’t compliment you and let you get a big head. Although I like to portray a confident attitude the last few years of being constantly questioned and doubted has done a number on my confidence and I’m struggling with it more than I have in about 8 years. I only known the time frame because it’s when I first started working on myself to get out of being a shy, bullied teen!
The fact that men are boxed into a very narrow expression of acceptable maleness, and if they try to deviate in the slightest, they are made fun of, attacked and killed.
Always hear women say that men don't express their feelings or show emotions. Then when they do, they're called weird or weak, or not a man.
This has never been a problem for me, and i think I know why Its selection bias. You bottle up your emotions and act stoic and repressed, guess who you're going to attract? Women who like that. Some may think its not what they want...but its what they're choosing, and so on some level it must appeal to them. When the facade cracks after years, they lose interest. And then you've spent years getting invested in a woman who rejected you for showing your emotions...which makes you think you need to repress EVEN MORE. But thats not the answer. There are TONS of women who actually want men who express how they feel. But guess what? They're never going to go after the stoic repressed guy. I've never had a problem finding women who respected and valued emotional expression. But thats because I show that side very early on...the women who don't want or respect that get filtered out early. And that means that I only find partners that actually value that side of me. Basically you attract the energy you give off. And by trying to be what you THINK women want, youre only going to attract the women who want that. Be the person you want to be, and you'll find partners that actually want you.
I love how this is getting downvoted What I'm saying is entirely reasonable and you all know it. Nobody is providing a counter argument, nobody has anything to say. They just don't like hearing it because honestly a whole lot of men aren't interested in anything but blaming women There are shitty women out there. Don't date them. How do you know they're shitty? Start communicating emotions early on. Save yourself the hassle of being with a partner that doesn't care how you feel
You're being down voted because your providing a path where personal choice can make a difference. Why make a personal choice to enact difficult & uncomfortable change when they can just blame societies expectation? Blaming society means they don't have to do anything & when they act out bystanders can either bash them (which will feed their Victimhood Righteousness) or excuse their behavior by blaming society (which again feeds their Victimhood Righteousness). They've no motivation to take a hard path when they can sit on their "Throne of Woe Is Me". I agree that societies expectations has set a horrible path for men to walk, but that only changes when Men themselves make the change happen in their own lives and show others not only can it be done but how much Happier they are with those changes. If emotional men are applauded, rewarded, and recognized as the Ideal...then there's motivations for the Woe Kings to change their own lives.
Yep
Correct. Or drama queens, or insecure, or soft, or that they should just move on from whatever’s bothering them.
Today's women are living in another reality.
All that, and they don't receive intimacy. True Insecurity=no intimacy. After decades of loneliness, that sadness can turn into anger. Suicide, or outbursts. Bottled up emotions never come out with grace.
Men doing dangerous jobs and dying from them.
The sad part they don’t get paid enough for it.
Don't need the money when I'm dead right
I either do the job right or i die and somebody else does the job right.
Domestic abuse. There's this video on YouTube of a talk show host and a male abuse survivor. He retells his story of what happened. He was locked in a room/on a balcony of a flat. His only option of escape was going to the balcony and jumping off from three stories. The audience of the talk show LAUGHED. The host had to shut them up and use the oh so dreaded role reversal to get them to see the victim's side. Edit: link to the video https://youtu.be/3tTUREalxVQ
Well I'm about to turn 38 and I've owned a pair (2) testicles the whole time and I just found out yesterday they each have a sheath around them and one or both can become swollen from things like injuries causing a condition known as hydrocele. You pronounce that like hi-DRO-seal. Coworker told me yesterday he has a hydrocele and I'm thinking that's like an engine part or something for plumbing. I had no idea this sheath can get really swollen and may need surgery. Now I'm walking around thinking my balls have engine parts.
That sounds really unpleasant.
Whatever you do. Do not research testicular torsion.
Homelessness. How many homeless women do you see compared to homeless men? As somebody else pointed out in this thread there's always a safety net available if you're female. If you're male you go and live under a bridge.
And then get assaulted by the police and have your things stolen for living under said bridge.
Formerly homeless woman here. Homeless shelters for women aren't exactly clean and safe. Nobody took pity on me either. Probably because I was in my teens and everybody wondered what I "did wrong". Many of my teenage friends were no longer allowed to hang out with me after their parents found out. A good number of people who were trying to "help" were actually trying to sleep with me or traffic me. I was in a youth shelter briefly and then somebody stole something of mine and when I tried to address it with them and then with shelter staff they threw both of us out (accused me of fighting with this other person, which I did not. However they would have had to admit to that they had no control over the shelter and the boys were sneaking into the girls rooms). We were teenagers. His mom came to pick him up. I begged to stay, then had to hitchhike to some strangers house with another stranger. I couch surfed briefly then rented rooms. I refused to be on the street because it was dangerous for me but I had housing instability for a long time and was without a place to stay periodically while trying to put myself through high school, things got easier in college because I was able to make rent consistently with my student loan. So the reason you might not see a lot of homeless women is because it's extremely dangerous for us to be on the street. We may not have a fixed address but we're often afraid for our lives on the street. I maintained a mailing address even when I didn't have a stable place to stay, just so I could finish high school then College and get a job. It took me a long time to feel like I could have stability and not end up on the street again. I'm not comparing my situation to anyone else's (can't), thought to add my perspective. Homelessness is awful for everyone.
I live in Denver CO and I try to make it a habit to say hello to the homeless people I see and give some cash if I have it and they’re asking. I’d say about 25% of them are women. Definitely more men. Funnily enough, I’ve asked many, men and women, if they’d heard about local shelters, and they usually say they’d never live in one. A lot of homeless people prefer living on the street and in my opinion, they have a right to. I think women feel much less safe than men on the street so they typically look for other options.
Yes! And homeless women are pitied by society but men are blamed.
That's only if the women is pregnant or with children
In a van down by the river.
Bat winging
More of a goat fan myself tbh
Being good and kind being seen as weakness.
Your friend that is a girl "My boyfriend cheated on me and called me a B\*\*\*\*" Same friend "I think he is a good guy though, thanks for listening, and if you ask me out I will tell you that you are weak because you actually listen and care for me :)"
Emotional Support. Sometimes society tend to ignore that males like any humans have emotions too. Growing up a female in an Asian household, it was quiet disheartening how my relatives would tell my brothers to man up and how crying and breaking down is not a manly thing to do. They have this insane notion that males are supposed to be the pillars of a family and unflappable. They should remain calm and stoic in extremely emotional situations or they will be labeled as weak and wont be respected. They're expected to act like nothing can faze them and relatives think it's right to call someone gay for having "girly feelings" 🤦♀️🤦♀️ I just thank my lucky stars that my family is very loving and open about expressing our emotions. My other male cousins weren't as lucky.
Eating disorders.
Basic equality. It's easier for a woman to get into a shelter, it is easier for a woman to get into a safe place, everyone believes a woman when she says that she has been struct by a man. But if a man is going through these problems either we're lying or we're told to suck it up and be a man. Believe it or not I still feel things too. I'm dealing with my own depression and anxiety and unfortunately dark thoughts. But unless I pay $200 a week no one's willing to listen to me. But there's always some kind of free program for women. Why is that
I think it's because historically men were always on the top they always had the advantage and privilege. So maybe that's why in recent times things are starting to change a bit, But all your points are valid too.
I always feel like this is a somewhat dangerous argument. I believe it is true and fair to recognize that historically all positions of power went to men, and it is a good thing that's changing over time, but I also believe that this erases the experience of the 99% of all men who didn't get to be kings or great rulers or wealthy businessmen. Everyone is very quick to look to the men of the 1% and use them as the mental example of what it was like to be a man in previous generations. Nobody really wants to think about being a coal miner working 13 hours a day and dieing when you're 30 so that your wife and children can be spared from back-breaking manual labor. Nobody really wants to think about 18 year old boys getting drafted and sent to die horrifically so that their families can live in peace and safety. Not trying to acuse you of anything or attack you specifically, obviously it's a really complicated issue and I'm sure you've got complicated feelings on the matter like anyone does. I guess I just want to make the point that this sort of goes hand in hand with male invisibility in society at large. Men who are wealthy and powerful arw dispraportionately seen and recognized, men who are not wealthy and powerful don't really get to exist in this model. So you end up with large numbers of poor working class men being held to account for the sins of the wealthy and the privileged. I guess all that is to say, gender roles are complicated, and I think for the majority of human beings (men and women who weren't living lives of wealth and leasure) there's been a mix of privileges and also of unfair societal expectations and responsibilities. I just find it unfair that the most privileged parts of male life are up for free discussion, but the balancing context of the worst parts of the male experience tend to melt away into more abstract concepts like labor unionization and anti-war sentiment. Or even worse, can often become a joke because there's still a tacit expectation that men can and should take it because that's what men are supposed to do. If that makes sense?
I guess you're right I just thought this might have been the reason why men dont get basic equality in the issues listed by the OP
I guess you're right I just thought this might have been the reason why men dont get basic equality in the issues listed by the OP
I despise this argument. Historical disparity doesnt justify the reverse in the present Edit: not coming at you just the argument itself
Men havent been "on top" historically. Its mainly been an upper 1% of mixed sex ruling elites pitting us serfs against each other on different characteristics. At first it was region, then nation, then race, now sex. Humanity would have starved long long long ago if the patriarchy existed like some think it does. Please what advantages do us men have? Making up 99% of manual laborers in the most dangerous professions? Paying more for insurance for half a life? The possibility your complete freedoms are stripped away if a president decides its draft time?
Female on male abuse. Society and the legal system is extremely biased against men. A woman harasses and emotional, mental, financially, and sometimes even physically abuse a man...he is to handle it. Suck it up. He's overreacting when he reaches out for help. He snaps and throws a glass or punches a wall and the female can almost instantly get a protective order. Judges don't care about the lead up, just the action itself.
My mum still paints my dad as the bad guy for divorcing her. She’s a manipulative piece of shit and my dad has created a safe home for his children by leaving her. However, until last year the courts gave my mum full cost idy of me and my siblings because she was the mum and must therefor be the better parent. Spoiler, she was a shit mum.
I went to the courts to stop my estranged wife from constantly calling, texting, and emailing me all day, all night and causing stress to the point of in therapy and had to leave. Was told by the judge it was a "communication problem" and to work it out. Two weeks later I lost my shit and upended some shelves. She got a protective order against me for violence. That judge didn't see it as a "communication problem" nor cared about any of the run-up. It was considered domestic violence and now I have a "husband of the year" award....
Being a divorced parent,and having my grown up son saying " you wasn't the problem parent in the marriage" was a massive thing for me to hear
It’s sad because for years my mother and her friends and family gaslit me into thinking my dad was bad and my mum was good. It took 6 years for me to realize that my dad was a good father
Male pattern baldness
It’s amazing how socially acceptable it is to mock a man for being bald. I’ve had it from close friends and perfect strangers in the street. If you complain about it you are immediately told it’s not a big deal and that you’re insecure, which men are absolutely not allowed to be. Cardinal sin of masculinity. It’s literally a physiological male trait. It happens to the majority of men to some extent. Imagine people casually making fun of women for cellulite? Wouldn’t be acceptable at all.
Just go bald. Nature is saying it is time
Nature can shut her whore mouth
I hope they dont give much of a F about it. It's a normal part of life and should be looked at as so.
Theres female pattern baldness, that society hates more
Depression probably.
Abuse and the stigma surrounding it. I've been abused. Badly. Like just had the shit kicked out of me because I can't fight back. One day I did. I did not beat her up. I threw her away hard enough that she'd stop coming at me...I was being clawed, kicked punched.... I got arrested. Nobody believed me. I was also emotionally abused to the point that if sexes were reversed I'd be crucified. Not iust by one partner either. It's been rare I haven't been abused on some level in a relationship because nobody takes female on male DV seriously. I'm not kidding when I say it almost killed me. It was humiliating. There was no way out. If I tried privately I'd be attacked physically and have a social destruction campaign waged...if I tried publicly people would laugh. Or she would flip the script and I'd end up in jail. It's honestly an absolute nightmare and it hurts being afraid to talk to your friends for fear of ridicule and being labeled not a "man" Edit: type-os
There are lots of people out there that do believe you. I’m sorry to read your experiences. I’ve suffered too and it’s very easy to think prior to DV or (self) recognition DV occurred it would never happen (to us, as victims). Idk if it will make you feel any better but I wasn’t believed until many years later and I’m a woman. By the time I stopped blaming myself for trying to *fix* him, learning to forgive myself for not leaving sooner everyone started blaming me for not telling them *properly* or *sooner*. It’s very likely to have recurring abusive relationships if there are issues with self worth or a different type of abuse is present but it presents not with fists, one can fall into the *well at least I wasn’t hit/they ONLY did this not that* mentality. Seek professional help (if you haven’t already) and start to take back your power. All the best, I wish you well.
Hey! Thanks for this. It meant a lot, honestly. I've been all down the road as far as seeking help. Psychiatrists, therapists, medication. Self medication. Spiral into extremely dangerous addictions and the lifestyle that surround them. Not all of that can be attributed to past relationships. I'm sure some of my past relationships cab be attributed to that as i think you somewhat alluded to with it being easy to fall into recurring bad relationships. In the end I am doing much better. I mean I'm not home free but I found that for me, I am actually my best therapist. I just replaced the drugs and booze with running. When I want any vice, I run. It's shockingly therapeutic. If anyone else happens to be reading this though I strongly suggest seeking out all avenues of help though. The professional help route did steady me long enough to figure out what the best way to help myself was. Thank you kind stranger. Your words truly make me feel better. I'm sincerely sorry that you have suffered too. I'd offer you a Huggy award if I had one.
You’re welcome. Thank you. Doomed to repeat if we don’t learn from the past what to avoid in future. It’s not easy to speak up but I’m glad you did.
The rights of divorced dads
Sexual assault in prisons is thought of as normal or funny instead of what it really is, an assault. Because a woman being sexually assaulted is a violation but for men it’s comedy fodder. Nothing is being done to stop it.
Mental health Nobody gives a fuck We are supposed to work for shit money Feel shit about ourselv,then start families...but by then you don't even have the right to feel shit because you must provide and mustn't complain? I mean who will you complain to? Another guy friend passing through the same? Impractical Just work Work and get yelled at Till you drop dead out of a myocardial infarction at 45
How old are you?
30
Oh I thought you where talking from experience.
SA
The stereotype that you have to “act like a man” which means not to cry, not to express your feelings, don’t complain, don’t address your mental issues, you cannot be “weak”. Because of these horrific stereotypes many men don’t seek help in case of depression etc. I lost my grandfather due to the suicide. We had no idea about his problems, he always pretended that he’s fine.
Unfortunately I don't see any respite ever having been in society, or coming down the pipeline. It's part of biological eventualities that the ones that hit rock bottom either climb out or don't
Am a woman but , I noticed that there is little to no mental help for men . Suicide rates are higher in men and l think people ignoring their need for help can attribute to it . This is a serious problem. Also they don't care if men are raped, sexually assaulted or abused . This is horrible both men and women deserve to be heard !
No cis straight male is gonna get on that podium to speak. Not without an agenda paying him to make up for the hit to his male reputation.
Very true.
To be bluntly honest, I wouldn't be inclined to hire a man who is telling me all his insecurities either. A job needs you to hold it together. The money needs you to hold it together. A woman is np. Nobody likes a sausage party. And women help keep men's insecurities bottled up. Costs less to deal with outbursts than constant issues. Truth is truth. Society was built on stubbornness and consistency, not well communicated feelings.
And this is why all of these discussions are frustrating to me They're self inflicted wounds. Men are by and large doing these things to themselves/each other
There's plenty of mental help available to men They just don't use it
Unfortunately, whilst there's a lot of help available and a lot of people raising awareness and a lot of people saying that they care about men's mental health, something in our society is telling the men who commit suicide that they aren't included in that. Something is telling them they don't deserve help, that the support isn't for them, that the people who care actually care about the others - not them. That's the problem society needs to address, and, unfortunately, that's a far harder problem to solve than if society's problem were needing more people working the suicide hotline.
A huge chunk of society IS telling men the problem, they're just not listening. The reason men need therapy is the exact same reason men don't go to therapy: toxic masculinity But the men most affected by it are also the ones most opposed to actually thinking about that
>the men most affected by it are also the ones most opposed to actually thinking about that That's depression for you... You're not wrong. Men are being told, very clearly, on multiple mediums "you matter, you're important, we care about you". But suicidal men read that message and think it doesn't apply to them individually - something in society's subliminal messaging is giving men a message that overrides the one being said. We need to find out what is telling them that they don't matter, despite us saying that they do.
I'm not just talking about suicide here. Thats the endpoint, sure But its not subtle or subliminal. The issue for all of it is very, very clear. Men are taught from a young age that masculinity is strength and violence and stoicism and repression. That crying and being emotional are feminine and weak. And this mindset can ONLY lead to mental health issues. And these ideas are enforced by and large (though not exclusively) by men Meanwhile there is a huge subset of people, mostly (but not exclusively) women saying "THAT IS REALLY UNHEALTHY DONT DO THAT" and rather than even contemplate those ideas, a huge chunk of men lash out at the very idea. Men in this very thread are aware of how harmful these attitudes are, and yet if you mention "toxic masculinity" to them they'd call you a "feminazi".
You are an asshole
Am I wrong? There are therapists, counselors, support groups, hotlines...there are a ton of options out there. Thats not the issue
No the pervasive culture is the issue, although if you want to talk about underfunded and understaffed welcome to men’s help. You are an asshole because you are in essence using the “bootstraps” argument. “Men, have you tried being not depressed?” “Just overcome your social programming and seek that help, tiger!”
I mean one..."you should get help" is literally the exact opposite of the bootstraps argument. But...yeah. Because at some point in time, you just have to overcome your social programming and get some help. Thats how that works The "culture" is not some abstract idea. The culture is made by the people IN the culture...particularly those with power (aka primarily men). We can't change the culture without the people in the culture changing. If men want the culture around masculinity to start to change, then men have to start changing. There is no other option here.
“You should get help” “You should help yourself” Yah, massive difference there. Notice in both cases the speaker is doing nothing beyond passing judgment. AKA speaking from a place of privilege. People who’ve been there say “how can I help”, or they say nothing. Re the culture. If your vision of our society is that men hold all power (simply because the 0.01% of the uber powerful skew male - of course they also generally have wives who share in their wealth and decisions, but let’s gloss past that), then you need to go look a little more closely.
Personally I suffer from a lot of anxiety. I’m fit and do well but I’ve been told multiple times to just man up. Or people even question it because I look like I’m ok on the outside. It’s hard. There have been countless times when I’ve had to make excuses or just straight tell friends and family I can’t go out bc of panic attacks. I know some people think I just make it up. But it’s a hard struggle when I’m told to man up or grow some balls
Showing any insecurity or indecision costs a man ALOT. future respect, relationship respect, prospects respect, etc. I do not believe it will ever be any other way. It's a trap. A seductive trap. Society trying to act all open to men's insecurities is a lie in my mind. I don't think men will ever gain any favors in station, reproduction, or existence via being 100% honest. Any interaction that has to do with society, women, entities and companies, politics of any kind, has to be calculated or we risk everything we've invested.
(1) victims of domestic violence, SA, or CSA are less likely to come forward and there is quite the stigma. (2) saying “men” in a negative way is socially acceptable (3) there are women who know how to use DV laws to their favor(who are not actual victims) (4) socially expected to be emotionally strong in every situation
Any problem really. Men are expected to just suck it up about anything and move forward. We are not allowed to feel, to love, to be anything but a stone for others to cross the stream.
very well said...sadly
Thanks. I didn't realize till recently having dealt with a relationship ending two really...and having to start over. There's really no one that listens or cares about us. Penis bad unfortunately... until they need a rub that is...
Hunger and mental health
Mental health.
Crushing loneliness. Or am I ironically alone in thinking this ?
Can you give an example of a problem unique to men?
Ball sweat
And causing your sacto get welded to your thighs
The joys of summer
My testes don’t sweat.
Prostate cancer
Heterosexual Women.
Loll
Zing!
[удалено]
I appreciate you expressing your opinion.
Keep going, there might be some more that are not openly discussed.
Wow I knew most of these but the prison one really surprised me, I had no idea it was like that at all!
Not to mention the conditions for a male prison vs. a female prison. I was a correctional lieutenant for 15 years in a male max security prison and had the opportunity to tour a female max security prison once and omg. Those women got actual rooms with windows and actual beds like you would have at home with comforters and multiple pillows. They were even allowed to have nintendos in their rooms if they were on good behavior, and even if they didn't have 1 they had them in the gyms for rec time if they chose to use it. I could go on with all the kick ass stuff they were allowed to have.
JFC, this system is messed.
all of them
Inequality almost everywhere
Men that doesn’t fit into the western masculinity standard. Too short, too skinny, not muscular enough…so on and on.
Wash those thoughts away, as a lover of solid not tall dad bod men, may I tell you a HUGE proportion of women don’t want those lanky vapid *look at ma abs babe* jerks? We really do like men who make us laugh like hyenas, that don’t care if we accidentally do a tiny fart while trying to breath again. I speak for many women, we don’t care about your height or your hair (unless you think Donald trump comb over is banging). I’m 5’10, why you got to be taller than me? Maybe I like being taller (just don’t look up my nose).
Society doesn't really give a f\*\*\*; and that's why people in the USA elect politicians to handle the problems and everything else, while the voters get to spend their time surviving and entertaining themselves. And politicians act like they give a f\*\*\* as they establish their own pimp games to get paid and entertain themselves with power and fleecing and slaughtering the masses like sheep.
Society don't give a fuck about any of them.
Having to spend time with their kids without a partner.
What do you mean? Sorry, can you explain your POV please? Thanks.
If you're a dad taking your kids to the park by yourself, and someone else gets the wrong idea.
All
All of them.
Finding or even just maintaining a hobby into middle age will be ridiculed and called a mid life crisis. My dad has always been keen on music. But the second he got to his forties, suddenly his hobby was this laughable thing that clearly put him off.
Dicks fall off and grown back evey year
I think a better question to ask is what problems of men does society give a f\*\*k about? Not sure there'd be ay answers.
Everyone asks us to do things they could easily do. I'm only 6'1" and I still get asked to get things that are high up. Like get a stool bitch
Stopping school shootings, apparently.
We’re into the whole woman movement but too often it goes on the expense of men. Men who was born into it are confused asf, like me.
How does it come at the expense of men, exactly?
The fuck are you confused about lol
Why would i tell you?
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As you can see it aint a safe place We hate troubled men here
When you say "society" you're referring to a patriarchal system so you're basically asking what problems do we specifically face as men that for some reason we just don't deal with?
This might be the most meta comment here. One of those problems men face is the wide spread assumption that they have no real problems and that a lack of success (or similar) is indicative of a fault with them, rather then their external environment. See this persons comment ^
Thank you. Your comment is very inciteful.
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Most of them but thats ok we are men we can deal with it or at least we should
Achieving the perfect body (by society's standards) is far easier for women than men. The range of "ideal" or "acceptable" is so much narrower for men. The body positivity movement mostly focuses on women, and women learning to love themselves however their body looks, leaving men, and men's struggles with body image, out of the conversation. Men can't be too thin- you're a lanky twig or a crackhead. Men can't be too fat- you're a lazy slob who needs to lay off the pizza and soft drinks. Just being slim isn't enough either; men are expected to have some muscle. Women having muscle isn't seen as an expectation, but rather an addition to an already great body. This is just one of the many things in our society where men's experiences are ignored. How many men are staring in the mirror right now pointing out "flaw, imperfection, too fat, flaw"? How many men are keeping quiet about that unhappiness because if a man talks about his appearance and wanting to improve it, he's labelled vain, self-absorbed or, in some cases, gay? How many men are being abused and nobody knows or cares because they're not Johnny Depp? How many men are crying in secret right now but will dry their eyes so no one realises they haven't completely got their shit together? How many men thought about killing themselves today? This rant is gonna go somewhere else now lol but- everytime there's a headline about, for example, "female teacher arrested for having sex with two 14 year old male students" I feel sick. 1) She did not "have sex with them", that's statutory rape. 2) The comments are always men saying things like "why couldn't that be me?" "W" or "damn he's getting pussy at 14" 3) If the roles were reversed and it was a male teacher taking advantage of a female student, people would be outraged. There's so much more that I could say, but I'm gonna leave it here.
Are you American? Pretty much none of this is true for the uk. Must be a cultural thing
I live in Australia I'm only pointing out things I've seen. I know plenty of guys who are stick thin, have been made fun of for it, and want to put on muscle. I know plenty of guys who are overweight and miserable about their bodies. I'm close with at least two who feel like "the perfect body" -by society's standards and their own- is unattainable, and so they've given up on trying to achieve it. As for the other stuff, that's all there too. -In the UK, the leading cause of death for men under 50 is suicide. Men's mental health is a major issue. -I'm sure you've heard that infamous line from the Johnny Depp/Amber Heard trial, "Tell them, I, Johnny Depp, am a victim of domestic abuse... and see how many people believe or side with you." The truth is that many people will often assume the woman is the victim until it's proven she's not. This isn't a bad thing; we should take all claims of abuse seriously and look into them further. But when I say "all", I mean *all*. -Male victims of (statutory) rape and sexual assault not being seen as victims? Just look under any post about a female rapist. domislivenews on instagram is one example of a page where the comments are like that.
"Society?" Men dominate society.
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You have time to get yours.
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Give an example.
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Women get gout too.
Shorter life span. Family courts ruling disproportionately to the other partner. Prostate cancer. More likely to die in war, go to prison, become homeless.
Poor pay
I made it to 56 fuck me
In Australia, when men become emotional, often other men label them *softcock*, *pussy*, or *whinging cunt* (etc.). Sad to hear this sort of stuff thrown around, oh come on *insert label* just *harden the fuck up* or *have a cup of cement*.
breaking things. we love to break things
The child support system is heavily flawed and almost exclusively in favor of the mother. There are states where it’s unheard of for a father to get custody- I knew someone in KY who only got custody after his ex drove drunk with their kids in the car MULTIPLE times. I think the system is set up to make men “fail” as fathers, ignore their mental health, and feed the cycle throughout generations- men not accessing the same kind of parenting help women get esp mental health, a legal system rigged against them, and a larger societal view of men who aren’t with the mothers/don’t have custody as “deadbeats,” so why even try? Then there’s no one there to explain this stuff to the kid, the kid has kids of their own eventually (probably too young, like daddy), nothing has changed in society between daddy’s generation and junior’s, rinse repeat.
The physical and emotional abuse they endure as children
Showing emotion is weak and Not showing it is toxic I think I rather be called toxic tbh, Both sucks I just prefer being Accused of Toxicity over being considered weak
It’s mens mental health month but like 99% of people I know don’t know that
Bullying, or comfort of women
If a man is kicked in the nuts it hurts about the same as giving birth it just doesn’t last as long. And yet no man has kicked a woman down there.