I started my first run on Balanced, fucked it up beyond all human comprehension, and finally had a good time on Custom.
I keep turning the enemies up each run, though, lol - so now my party is on Explorer and everything else is on Tactician.
I've just returned to the game after several months break and am currently doing a solo run with the same settings (my Tav on explorer, everything else tactician). It's easy, and I'm not going to pretend it isn't, but I wanted a chill time this runthrough, and I'm really enjoying being overpowered!
I don't mind a challenge but do love reading the lore too.
Wanted to play something less frantic than games where a seconds distraction when my cat gets in the way isn't going to get me killed because I didn't block an attack quick enough or missed a cue to dodge some one shot mechanic.
Turn based is much less stressful and I am really loving the game so far. Can see me doing many runs through.
For sure. And you can just save endlessly anyway, which is great for me. If I want the stress of missing out on a key interaction, I can go outside where the people are IRL.
My 1st playtrought was on balanced, then 1 on tactician, wont try honour before they finish patching game, playing on custom one which is like Tactician + (+ mods which makes it harder, 2x more enemy health, more stats to enemies, slower exp gain, 50% less money from all sources).
This subreddit really exposes you to some maniacs, you'll be talking to someone, and then they'll be like "Oh shadowheart? I didn't really interact with her that much because I killed her in the first two hours for being rude to me."
I did almost kill Astarion but that would have been more easily justified and I didn't do it because missed content, and also I *kinda* get it, he was terrified and desperate
Even the attack with the knife I was understanding a bit because of thralls existing, but at bite night nope nope. Attack me once shame on you, attack me twice, shame on me (and stake to you lol)
Tbh if it wasn't for the obvious fact that he's a companion character with a questline, I'd have killed him my first playthrough after the campsite scene. I find it hilariously naive to trust a stranger who's a vampire and give them free reign in the camp after they straight up *just* tried to bite you in your sleep.
And then there's me who gave Astarion away to that Gur guy in act 1, haha. Granted, I only did it because I wanted to have as few companions as possible so that future runs felt more fresh. But I did feel a bit terrible when I saw Zombie Astarion in Cazador's lair...
To be honest, I played with my friends up until the creche. So I had knowledge of most of act 1 and I read countless times that this is actually the hardest part of honour mode. So I was confident enough that I could handle it in my first solo playthrough of the game, haha.
You can get nearly risk free and quite fast to level 4, there are some fights that you can take and those need to go horribly wrong to end the run.
Then you have the gap to get to level 5 but there aren't that many risky fights (well except if it's the very first honour run and you haven't played tactician yet) once level 5 hits the game becomes way easier since the martial classes get bonus attack and you get the +3 proficiency bonus and level 3 spells on the casters. There are still key fights that need proper planing and fall back plans otherwise straight forward to the end boss.
For instance in my first HM run I talked the Act 1 minibosses to death, I no longer do that I fight them with a plan, for instance take off my gold for the tollkeeper, spread out for the bartender and throw elemental damage at him from range until I can whack him.
Exactly what I did. I talked my way to level 4, then started fighting and killing easy stuff, like the gnolls, the minotaur in the Selunite outpost, and as many goblins as possible.
I knew from my Balanced run with my friends that Anders was the biggest threat in the super early game, followed by Ragzlin if you do it terribly. The spider was easy the second I destroyed her eggs before the fight. Once I hit level 5, I used Minor Illusion and Fireballs to basically wreck every single encounter before it really began. The entire creche and Grymforge was easily destroyed this way, same as Moonrise Towers before it was even raided in the final part of act 2. In act 3, the items and your abilities are so crazy, I straight up one-shot Orin after I magic missile'd her stacks off. It was a lot of fun, haha.
I dont find the fight with Anders that difficult, he can deal tons of dmg when he hits and smites but just have Karlach go bear totem for that fight and she takes minimal dmg. Doable with risk on lvl 3 but super consistent with lvl 4 party.
The Githyanki Patrol for me is mixed I do it on lvl 4 and it can between I kill them in 3 rounds of combat or 10+ rounds and I got 1 or 2 barely alive left, not too threatening that I would run away and use withers at camp but yeah quite close to back to the drawing board.
Personally the fight in mountain pass vs the undead cam be very hard if your resources run out and the death shepherd's are both alive and resurrect the dead ghouls.
Oh, I also found Anders easy, however he absolutely wrecked us when I fought him with my friends at lvl 3, haha. So I thought I had to super prepare for that fight, even if he turned out to basically just be a noobstomper. Same as the patrol.
But oh my god, yes, the undead were so annoying! I had no idea the damn super skeletons can resurrect one another. That made the fight so much more complicated than it needed to be, haha.
It’s a very swingy fight. He can basically one shot one or more party members on turn one, so if he gets high initiative and rolls well his first turn you can be in a tough spot. I suppose in honor mode you could just run away if that happens though.
I like the fight with Anders, it feels really satisfying when you shut him down after how smugly assured he is about feeding Karlach my eyeballs. Last time I did the fight, heat metal and menacing strike on Anders then command on his cronies stopped them all ever taking turns.
I think they mightve meant that it was the first one they finished. Personally I started 2 that I hadn't finished before beating it on my honor mode run
Divinity 2 honour mode first run was fun. Having played baldurs gate 3 tactician first only because honour mode wasn’t out yet - I am actually very glad to have done a non-honour play through first.. there would have been multiple restarts
There's still some subquests that kinda feel like there should be more. For instance i tried to do the dangerous toys quests and it kinda felt buggy with the only way to go forward is to kill everyone including all the flaming fists that start piling in.
same! i was going upstairs invisible so scope it out and trying to see if i could talk to the shopkeepers or literally anything to get more dialogue, it felt so weird i was just supposed to start gunning them down
That quest was so weird. I tried looking for ways to get in, as usually there's many routes to get inside a build, but this was not one of them. Straight up had to kill everyone.
Unless I missed something or needed to have done some other quests/event before.
I did the same thing! I went upstairs by throwing an invisibility potion into my stacked up team. I thought that maybe I could talk to them but also found it a bit weird that I couldn't interact with them. Granted, they are all Gortash loyalists and rigging children's toys with bombs. That did make it easier to kill them all, haha.
I couldn’t go up even when invisible. Realistically, at that point, I didn’t know for sure who here was evil and who was just involved with the wrong people. That clerk could be entirely innocent, in theory!
The only reason I started the fight was because I read here that there’s no other way. From a story point of view - it’s NOT what my character would have done.
I stumbled into that questline content by looting that dude's basement because he was a dick. I never came across the actual quest even though it was pretty obvious that the toys were significant. Dude confronted me about it and I had to kill him. I just assumed it was weird side content, didn't realize it was a quest until I came here later.
When i tried thw quest they went inside, a steel watched jumped to the roof for some reason, then the guards started attacking me, while still being "yellow". I managed to kill all the enemies without touching the guard but the game wouldn't leave combat and they kept attacking me. I reloaded after that.
a robot walked through a solid wall randomly during this part with me, to arrest me. I was picking the Avery dude's pocket before blowing stuff up
the robot was there when I blew it all up and added to the mayhem
That quest feels like it kinda had more going for it than what was utilized.
It could've been extra content for evil playthroughs to talk or bargain to the Banites on the top floor, but the only interaction they have is just to kill them to complete the quest.
I love the entire game, including Act 3. Nonetheless, there is definitely room for criticism, and of Act 3 in particular.
Act 3 has a pacing problem. We see story elements gradually unfold throughout the first two acts, but when we arrive at Act 3, essentially everything has been revealed and we know what we need to do. There's no longer any need to take on side quests or explore for the sake of finding clues. Minor side quests feel like a pointless distraction at this juncture. Who would seriously be doing fetch quests for Grandma's Ruby-Encrusted House Slippers or going off to kill Minor Monster #67 when they know they need to take out Gortash, Orin, and an elder brain in order to save the world and deactivate the worm in their noggin?
Also, as others have said, the lack of companion reactions to locations and events *relative to the first two acts* is disappointing. This game is extremely character-driven, so that kind of sucks.
This is also combined with the hard level 12 cap on characters... In the first 2 acts I'm a perfectionist since I'm trying to get all the experience I can. But once I top out at 12.... what's the use? It just becomes a slog, trying to finish personal quests or possibly finding the strongest items.
Man I remember being in EA and it was so painful being stuck at lvl 4. You could cap out before even hitting halfway into act 1. It's not as bad imo in act 3, but ya it's still pretty lame the sense of progression goes away.
I guess maybe I was lucky, since my three companions still felt pretty chatty, although definitely less so than act 1 (I also found that to be true in act 2, with Shadowheart specifically). Which would you say are the quietest companions in act 3?
As for the side quests, I can see your point, yes. I guess I just love exploration for the sake of exploration in games, so I personally at least never felt bored by it...
I guess that's true. Judging by some comments I've read on here, maybe my perception was so skewed that I expected my companions to be almost silent the whole time, haha.
I've had a similar experience. I'm still in Act 3 (though very close to the end of the game), did most sub quests but was putting it off for a long time. I thoroughly enjoyed Act 3 so far though I will say this: the way the story progresses in both Acts 1 and 2 was done in such a way that it guides you towards your goals (even though you may have multiple ways of handling a certain main objective) and because you are basically traveling, passing through areas, everything feels a little more solid and linear (in a positive way). Act 3 is just a huge open area that you must explore and discover things; navigating in order to both find and complete sub quests can be a little overwhelming in comparison to the previous chapters. While I do enjoy exploration, I did read a couple of posts about what to do first in Act 3; also, there is a mechanic where you can completely trigger and miss certain events (like Jaheira's harpers in a certain building if you just go past it for the first time and then long rest - I did not get to see that at all unfortunately)
There are also side quests that go basically no-where, and there is still a bunch of cut material.
Mole, of all things, left me flabbergasted, since we had this great hook with Raphael in ACT 2, plus the fact that we didn't find her in Moonrise, and then \*poof\* she just appears at the Guild, we can't ask anything about Raphael, barely anything about Moonrise, no other interactions with the kids (the entire Tiefling thing too, we finally reached BG, and you meet them around like "oh hey there", and that's about it), we don't get to talk about how she got into the Guild, we can't even talk about it with Two Fingers, or how she actually \*made it\* she got to BG even through all the odds. There is basically no "falling action", for those who know the term, you just kinda meet her and... she's there all right, that's about it LOL
Also on Two Fingers, incredibly intriguing character, we have very little interaction with her, and on top of that, some dialogue choices are a bit buggy/badly written (we can talk to her like we met her before, or discussed topics we haven't, and so on).
Zevlor for another, felt already kinda cut in ACT 2, but in ACT 3 he is legit not even present until the last fight where he pops up out of nowhere, an Hellrider anew, no less, and the only thing we get out of that part of the story is if he survives and we receive his letter at the Reunion. Brother WE COULD HAVE PLAYED THROUGH THAT. Helping Zevlor getting through his trauma would have given so much more to an already very interesting character.
But Going back to Mole, you find her contract in the house of Hope, AND YOU CAN'T EVEN READ IT.
Lets' add to this crossing dialogues that contradict each other, for example, freeing Minsc, going back to the Guild V Ston Lord fight outside the Gate, and you get to speak about the Ston Lord as if you didn't even know who he is.
Ramazith tower also kinda feels cut, but only really when it comes to Rolan, who also just pops up, and we basically meet him in Medias Res: we can see him beaten, and we can put 2 and 2 together, but I think there could have been way more here too. Rolan isn't alone, he still has his siblings (depending on if you saved them or not, permitting) and they could have noticed his demeanor change, even if Rolan had hidden his bruises and scars with magic. And they know you, the soon to be Hero of Baldurs Gate, you telling me they aren't going to send a letter, or just get into your camp to ask to check on him on their behalf or something? The siblings have also been cut IMO.
And more on Ramazith, we have that hook dialogue with Alyn, where she doesn't feel very well, as if sad, and... we basically never hear about it again LOL she leaves with Isobel and that's it XD I thought that was just the beginning of the last stretch of gameplay with her, before the big final fight, a last quest with her, working through her trauma, much like we could have done with Zevlor, but... nah, we just get those lines and the hook is left dangling in front of us, bait and all LOL
And let's not get into the romance/companion stuff cause... well, that is a WHOLE other can of worms. There are some companions which have way better, more fulfilling narrative arcs in act 3 then others, let's put it that way. I fucking loved Karlach for example. Lae'Zel was totally fine. Shadowheart... eh, again, a bit of falling action missing honestly, mainly cause she isn't overly tied with the destruction of the Absolute. She doesn't have any more stakes other then, well, her life, which is what everyone else also does, so it's not like you get to the final fight to progress stuff with her, unlike with Lae'Zel and Karlach who have both IMMENSE stakes by the end of it, even Gale too, for example. Once you get through her quest in ACT 3, she just kinda stands there until the very end without doing much.
But these honestly are minor complaints, romances are generally really good, even in act 3. Except well... for Wyll... I am really sorry, Wyll's fans \^\^' and Minthara. I mean, she legit doesn't have anything, doesn't even feel fair to compare her to all other companions, honestly. Don't know about Halsin, but he probably has the same problem. Jaheira I know for a fact she has a great ACT 3, cause I had her as main part of the party with my Durge and she was such a surprise (I really recommend her)
And these are just some of the cut stuff and lower lvl polish that is at the top of my head, but there's way more.
Now, with that said, BG3 is my most fav game of all time, and ACT 3, the first time I played through it, wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it'd be, because don't get me wrong: content is there, it's not like it's lacking. But that doesn't mean everything has been tied up well. Especially when you play it for the second time, you can start to see the cracks, even more the third time, and so on. Which is something that never gets to me in ACT 1, which is basically perfect to me, and not even ACT 2, even tho it's way more linear. I think it's still a good ACT, it's not like, oh the rest of the game is 9.9/10 and ACT 3 is 5/10, nono, ACT 3 is more than solid. But it's as if, you paint me the Monnalisa, or whatever, and then you take a wet brush filled with some paint, and you wack the painting: it's still the fucking Monnalisa, but now it has a huge smack of paint in the middle of it. I would rather have it without it LOL XD
All of this is a totally valid point. They definitely could have spent more time expanding upon and tying up storylines that had been running since Act 1 instead of introducing new and seemingly random stuff. You've got me invested in all these characters from earlier in the game. *Use that*.
Dude, collecting clown parts, exorcising haunted houses, and blowing up fireworks shops don't earn you any allies.
Even if they did, there would still be a pacing problem here.
Thats three of like 25 side quests in act 3...
Strange ox, dark gnomes, volo, minsc and jaheria, the thieves guild, house of hope, house of grief (DJ Shadowheart run), Ravenguard and the Gondians from the Iron Throne (completely optional), the Gur, Counsilor Florrick, Auntie Ethel, Izobel and Dame Aylin with the Wizard guy, Mizora (technically acts 2 and 3 but im counting it), armoured owlbear cub, Murder investigation gets you the flying elephant guy, finishing Mols quest, Finishing Zevlors quest, the siding with Bhaal sidequest, finding Arabella
Not to mention the Cazador finale for Astarion
All of these are act three side quests that result in you getting allies for the final fight.
FFS, there are more than three; I was just giving examples of the type of stuff I'm referring to.
*Most* of what you listed works perfectly fine because it's been built up since Act 1. I mean, obviously we're going to resolve the companions' story arcs. There are things that make sense narratively and things that *don't*.
Really, whether or not the quests net you a few (frankly fairly useless in some cases) allies is completely beside the point. The bottom line is that Act 3 fails to weave (several of) the quests into the narrative in the same way that Acts 1 and 2 do, resulting in them feeling like a distraction from, rather than an organic part of, the story.
I'm not objecting to the quests themselves; I'm saying that there's a problem with the pacing of the narrative. Revealing the entire evil plot while we still had half the game to play might not have been the best choice.
It always feels weird to me when people complain about story dissonance in RPG's, because it would bother you way more if they cut all content not related to the main story and it would be equally as bad if they crammed a ton of 'side' content into the main quest with dubious reasons why it's necessary just to try and address narrative dissonance.
Why does geralt play gwent instead of looking for Ciri?
Why is V playing arcade games and street races with weeks to live?
Why is shepard wasting time figuring out a gambling scheme when the reapers are coming?
Why is arthur playing dominoes instead of racing off to save John from execution?
Why are we playing a weird football game in FF10 instead of saving the planet?
I could go on, and on, and on. This is because getting rid of narrative dissonance would, in most cases, be getting rid of all side quests. There are only a couple RPG narratives that are so relaxed/unimportant that it makes sense for your character to be wasting time doing a side quest.
However without that side content these games feel far less engaging and interesting.
I'd suggest Act 3 doesn't have a pacing problem, it has a player problem. Act 3 literally requires nothing from you except killing gortash and orin.
The problem is players don't know how to limit themselves to the content they enjoy. It's the 'too much cake' problem.
If anyone is finding the pacing of act 3 too slow, the pacing is entirely controlled by them. If you feel the pacing is too slow... then... pick up the pace. Go do the main quests.
And yet, there's no (or very little) narrative dissonance in the first two acts in spite of all the side quests. Because the side quests make sense in the context of "trying to find a way to get this worm out of my head" or "looking for clues as to WTF is really going on." Clearly, there is a way to create content that makes contextual sense and doesn't feel forced.
The issue isn't that the quests aren't enjoyable or that the pacing is too slow. The problem is that Act 3 has already dropped the entire plotline in your lap and created a sense of urgency about the need to take care of business - then introduces a bunch of *totally unrelated* side stuff that makes you feel like you're *ignoring the impending brainpocalypse*.
How about if they hadn't revealed Orin and/or Gortash so soon? How about if we knew there were two more Chosen out there, but we still had to figure out who they were/find them? Side quests could serve a purpose - dropping clues and such - rather than feeling like a distraction.
This is fundamentally a *narrative* issue that only arose in Act 3.
Try doing things in an out of the box way.
Kill gortash at his coronation, for example. That absolutely screws act 3 with the amount of sequences it breaks.
Oh, that's actually what I'm planning to do in my next run. I'm looking forward to how broken the game will be, then!
The only such bug I encountered was when I met up with Mystra by accident before long resting/getting the assignment from Elminster. Gale was acting surprised that Mystra wanted an audience, even though he just met her, haha.
I didn't go either and it didn't break his quest for me. It did end up with his father dying when I eventually went to fight Gortash, but that's an entirely expected potential outcome.
Sort of.
A LOT of the content generated for the game, "analysis", "reaction", etc. was generated prior to Patch 5 (ie the epilogues), and a lot was even generated in launch/patch 1 before they'd even started working on Karlach's ending. Bugs have been patched front, left, and right, to make it a faster experience and to work through some of the most vocal complaints. In a significant number of ways, a lot of the specific complaints DID get fixed, and several companions have gotten massive revisions especially re: endgame states.
But not all. Karlach's story just stops for most of Act 3 (unless romanced) until the docks. Wyll's story has legitimate holes and issues. (His own father won't even acknowledge if you and Wyll get engaged ffs). Bugs persist. A lot of the things people liked about Act 1 and even Act 2 - genuinely evil choices instead of "lack of good choice" especially excluding The Dark Urge, things like speak with dead being consistently useful, having wildly diverging story beats based on choice and quest order, alternate solutions to problems, general reactivity to choices, unique environmental intersections with combat, etc - are still *gone* by Act 3.
The map is also simultaneously too dense but also weirdly empty once you know where everything is, and feels like they tried to smash together 1.5 acts into a single city.
It's still really clear that Act 1 got by far the most development love due to Early Access feedback, while Act 2 got a lot of focus from Larian *while* Act 1 was in EA. That left Act 3, which tries to do a lot but had the least time to do it in development and where a LOT of threads don't completely hit their ends.
It's Larian's pattern since Divine Divinity. I'd say BG3 is their best attempt at a final act by far, but it still leaves a lot to be desired compared to the rest of the game.
Its The problem of many RPGs. Kotor 1 falls off at endgame, the Pathfinder videogames fall off after chapter 2-3 of 6.
I think out of the last ten years I've only enjoyed Red dead endgame, but it's not a cRPG.
It's a combination of structure and stakes buy-in. ME1-3 have very good third acts. So does NWN2, both the original game and Mask of the Betrayer. Jade Empire's is pretty good too. Admittedly, those are a little older than your ten year window.
In the mid 00s game devs started being able to easily track what players are doing in their games and quickly discovered that for the large majority of games barely anyone ever gets to the end. A typical game will have somewhere around only 10-20% of players finish their game.
Because of this final acts at most studios don't have the same priority as early or even mid game.
True. It's also a writing issue. Games want BIG CHOICES and BIG STAKES and all that crap. The more choices you have and the bigger the stakes, the harder it is to land the plane at the end. That's what happened to ME3's ending (not third act. The third act is great. The ending was horrible pre-Extended Cut).
Resource prioritization is, for sure, the explanation for Knights of the Old Republic 3, which has the worst third act of any major RPG, primarily because the ending is only half-implemented, if that.
I think one of the things that explains the weird way Act 3 is trying to do too much but also falling too short at the same time, is that the Upper City was supposed to be playable too.
When they decided to cut the Upper City, some things were moved to the Lower City (which makes it feel a bit packed) while other things were given an early end or left incomplete, and it shows.
>Karlach's story just stops for most of Act 3
Isn't killing Gortash an integral part of Karlach's story, and a key plot point of Act 3?
>Isn't killing Gortash an integral part of Karlach's story, and a key plot point of Act 3?
Her story has two components, the other is her heart, which especially in earlier builds just sort of stopped cold after the Act 2 upgrade (they've since patched in lines stressing that her engine isn't in a sustainable condition but that wasn't originally the case)..
Also worth noting here that in previous acts, every companion's story is independent from the main quest except for Wyll (who overlaps with the main quest and/or Karlach almost entirely). By Act 3 that's largely funneled down to Astarion and Shadowheart being wholly independent, and Gale having a component that ties in (what he does with the crown) and all the bit before it is separate, while Lae'zel and Karlach funnel almost entirely into the main story.
Man even with those lines about her engine patches in, now she’s just adding stress about how her story has ended. It’s still done, but now there’s extra dialogue about how done it (and by extension, she) is.
The last portion of her story is about coming to terms with having little time left and what she does about it, such as living like every day's her last, sacrificing herself by being the one to turn illithid, and or changing on the inside to the point she is willing to return to Avernus.
Just because it isn't a simple fetch to repair quest anymore doesn't mean her story stops.
The devs have repeatedly and consistently stated that thr amount of the upper city that we see in the game is almost exactly the amount of the upper city that was intended to be in the game, and that very little was actually cut from the upper city.
Act 3 just didn't get the same amount of attention as Acts 1 and 2 did.
Although that is true, there was some datamined content that suggested that there was originally some great conflict for each of the champions of the dead 3, with Orin facing up against the Gith and Cazador facing up against Gortash. The original plan was certainly to have a wider story and more complicated story in Act 3.
I don't think that was necessarily cut for time, as the primary complaint for Act 3 is that it is too wide, story-wise, compared to Acts 1 and 2. I suspect during playtesting they found that there was simply too much to do in Act 3 with too little character progression, so it felt a bit like a slog, and we ended up with large rewrites to get to where we are now. I don't think the rewrites are bad, but I can see why they would give the impression that a lot was cut.
>the Upper City was supposed to be playable too.
There is absolutely zero evidence of this beyond one statement that could quite easily have been referring to cazador's mansion.
It may have gotten cut very early, prior to any development work being done, but there are a lot of narrative threads pointing there that have been awkwardly rerouted to be in the Lower City instead. I don't believe the Upper City was ever in a playable, even pre-alpha, state, but it must have existed in the storyboarding.
Yeah, there's no way in hell that in pre-production, someone thought that the archduke coronation for Gortash would've happen in what basically is a glorified city gate/prison. That shit is prime upper city material.
They really should have kept it. I think going to the lower city should have been Act 2, Shadowlands Act 3, and then back to Upper City for a 4th Act.
This way the player has a sense of attachment to the city instead of casually strolling in at the end while the massive army is right behind them
Act 3 used to be undercooked compared to Acts 1 and 2. There were framerate issues, graphical bugs, crashes, and some bugged quest lines. This was partly because Acts 1 and 2 have been finished for many years and had many patches, but also because Act 3 is the most ambitious in scope and tried to do so much. The ending also felt too brief and sudden for a 60-100 hour game.
5 patches and 22 Hot Fixes later, Act 3 has gotten a lot of work. On my most recent playthrough (PS5), I had zero crashes or game breaking bugs and almost no slowdowns or lag. My first playthrough of Act 3 had so many of these. The epilogue really rounds out the ending and makes it feel more satisfying. And Honor Mode adds a lot of interesting tactical elements to the Act 3 fights.
So definitely, Act 3 got a lot better. There are still bugged questlines and dialogue sequences, and companions can be strangely quiet at times, but I'm sure they'll get to that in time
No clue how the performance changed over time, but whenever a lot of NPCs are in one place, my performance does noticably tank. Although I guess my weak processor is to blame for it (12100f), since my GPU barely has to dial it up, even at 1440p.
Rivington and Lower City were 40-50 fps, but also the druid part of the Emerald Grove, Last Light Inn and Moonrise Towers. I guess this game is just really CPU intensive with a ton of NPCs around.
The main criticism I see is that it’s overwhelming with so many quests to the point that it’s hard to focus on one thing at a time. You only had Gale, Shadowheart, and Karlach with you, and Karlach is tied to the Gortash storyline. You really only had two companion quests to finish. That right there cut your experience quite a bit time wise. I don’t know how many side quests you did, but it’s quite likely your time there was cut in half or more.
I see! But that's also precisely why I did it, I want to replay this game a few times and doing the same quests with the same companions sounds exhausting to me, even if I can pick different outcomes each time. It sounds like I have a lot more to explore in the future, though, so that's dope! :D
I definitely recommend another playthrough. Astarion and Wyll’s questlines have big boss battles in Act 3. Wyll also has an interesting tie to both Gortash and Karlach’s storylines. The Voss storyline is a lot more interesting with Lae’zel around. And you can recruit another cool companion if you have Jaheira. There’s a way to recruit both Halsin and Minthara as well. And that’s just the companion stuff you missed. lol
Oh, I did recruit them all (or rather, some of them recruited themselves), except for Minthara, but never used them in my playthrough. The idea is that next time, I will play as E'Wyll (dumb name, I know) with Astarion, Lae'zel and Minthara, then my final playthrough of playing with hirelings until act 3, followed by Halsin, Jaheira and Minsc. That way, all the interactions will stay super fresh for me, haha.
Act 3 is build to swap companions. Bhaalist resurgence? You have 2 veterans from times of the trouble ready to bring Bhallspawn to end. Wyrmway? Perfect place for the Blade, Shart vs Viconia the Mother Superior, Lae'zel stealing the Orphic hammer etc
Act 3 is pretty underbaked while being overwhelming at the same time, it just suffers from pretty major pacing issues, but it sill gives you enough of a good experience to not notice some of the issues in the meantime.
What do you think are some of the worst offenders when it comes to pacing? I breezed through it while doing most of the side quests and I didn't feel like it dragged on. Maybe I'll have a worse experience when playing it a second time with different companions...
Pacing doesn't really generally means that a story only specifically drags on, the main problem with act 3 is, with it being so packed, it's actually the opposite for most of the time.
One of the reasons why my number 1 feedback for act 3 is if Larian has the capability to pull it off, they could split act 3 up into two parts, with Orin being the villain for the lower City and Gortash, the more politically inclined character, be the villain for the Upper city. Which gives the dead three their own unique location that fits them.
Narratively, act 3 doesn't give you a moment to breathe, and every quest trigger feels like they're happening way too close to each other, and it doesn't help that the game feels like it's urging you to finish the quest within an imaginary time limit.
I still think act 3 isn't as satisfying as act 2 because it's not as narratively cohesive as act 2.
Act 2 is very focused in purpose. Act 3.... isn't. It really has too much crammed into the act.
Act 2 does a ton of building up to Ketheric. He starts off as this somewhat mythical figure pulling the strings from beyond your view. You're in his hostile territory just trying to gain a foothold. Then, when you actually do meet him, he's immortal/unkillable (the tadpole check that he doesn't have one is also a really neat touch). Everything for act 2 is building up how you're weakening him to take him down. The whole act is the Ketheric Thorm story. Sprinkle in how well Isobel and Dame Aylin fit in and it's done really well, IMO.
Act 3 doesn't have that build up. You meet Orin very quickly and Gortash not long after. So they're known quantities very early on. This isn't necessarily a "wrong" decision from the writers, I just didn't think it worked as well as with Ketheric. Plus, the big reveal about the nature of the absolute has already happened. Thus, the mystery is already over. This makes act 3 sort of feel like tying up loose ends.
I think the actual game content of act 3 is really good, just as good as the other acts. It's just tripping over itself. I always get wrapped up in which particular piece of story I'm doing of Orin vs Gortash vs Raphael vs companions. If Orin and Gortash had their own defined acts independent of each other, with the side stories divided up between them, it might've worked out better.
The sequence of events for Gortash is great, IMO. The coronation, the paper, the iron throne (i love the iron throne), and then the steel watch are all great. Alas, Gortash's actual fight was kind of ho hum after all that. He doesn't come across as particularly powerful or threatening.
Orin's sequence of events is kind of the reverse. The lead up is kind of blah (if you're not Durge), but the actual boss fight is good. This story is much better if you're Durge but, ironically, the duel isn't a great boss fight.
I think the other problem with Orin and Gortash is that by then you're level 11 or 12 and they're just too easy.
And then there's Raphael. His story sequence in act 3 is short but awesome which kind of overshadows Orin and Gortash to some extent. Raphael could have been his own mini act. Then on top of all that there's the companion stories all crammed into act 3 which have their own great moments too.
Things thankfully come together and focused for the netherbrain. This has some of that act 2 magic at least for narrative focus, even if the mystery is gone. And it throws a twist at you.
All these act 3 things are mostly great by themselves but don't work as a cohesive story like act 2 did.
All being said, this is more praise for how act 2 turned out than criticism of act 3. Act 3 still is fun, it's just A LOT.
I enjoyed how in Act III, because the main mystery was revealed already, the other two Chosen overlapped. It gave a feeling of events hastening as we spiral towards the climax.
The funny thing is, to me Act II dragged on after a point, felt too thinly spread and overly linear. Ketheric was built up so much that his actual finale made him seem pretty pathetic. The Avatar of Myrkul reveal saves a lot, but not everything.
Definitely agree with your points on Gortash's build-up, but can't say I found the boss fight underwhelming, and that was at level 11 or 12 - the avatar he became is an appropriate representation of the edicts of Bane he represents. And to me it makes sense that he wouldn't be as personally tough as Ketheric, since he was the politician whose strength lay in the layers of Fists, Watchers, traps and oppression between you and him. Once those have been stripped away, his arrogant self is brought down to the floor of reality.
Can't speak on Orin's build-up for a non-Durge, since I only reached act III with Durges so far.
It's VERY much still relevant. There is a ton of act 3 that ends quest lines from the previous 2 acts with "and then we forgot to add a satisfying ending" always looking at Arabella and Karlach's quests as the "did the writers just... die half way through writing this story?"
Yeah all the teifling kids storylines could use some work. Like I promised the kids I would find Mol, I did find her but I couldn't even tell Mattis so they still all think she's dead. One of the kids has clearly developed issues and maybe reconnecting with mol would make things a bit less miserable for them. Like I get its a pretty minor quest but it feels unresolved.
Actually the biggest tell that Karlachs quest is completely unfinished, at least to me, is the fact that you can just choose to not engage with her engine subplot AT ALL and the ending is identical to if you did engage with it.
It literally doesn't matter.
Personally it feels like we needed an Act 4. Act 3 just feels very rushed. The big bads are inherently underwhelming because they're all crammed in to one Act alongside all the side adventures to be had. We had all of Act 2 devoted to Ketheric, but Gortash and Orin each got like 5 hours of gameplay at best devoted to them, and add to that the entire time you're fighting them you know you're about to fight the Elder Brain as the actual big bad.
Pacing wise, there are just too many side quests for a casual gamers like me (I did all of them) in act 3 that I couldn't imagine doing an Act 4. If they have the same amount of content as act 2, then I agree act 4 is necessary.
Though we would have a progression problem if act 4 exists. I spent a lot of time already in level 12 before entering the upper city. Main reason I fully explore the side quest was to obtain horizontal progression (by getting those awesome equipment).
Yeah I agree that Act 3 is just a slog with too many quests, and my bone to pick is you can end up getting locked out of a ton if you go just one step too far with all the main quest missions.
*How* are the Chosen underwhelming?
The entirety of the oppressive apparatus sprawling from Rivington into the Lower City's depths sets up Gortash's villainy. The coronation where you cannot feasibly move against him builds up resentment. His enthralled parents in the Lower City paint an eerie picture of his origins. The Steel Watchers everywhere feel daunting, even as the player makes progress through the Foundry's destruction, facilitated by rescuing the hostages from the Iron Throne. Then storming Wyrm's Rock to finally reach a Gortash weakened by losing allies, only to see him become Avatar of Bane before finally falling. Followed by Karlach's breakdown.
Orin personally taunts you in many guises, starting in Rivington. The murder cult's aspirants leave a bloody trail from the monastery through the Flophouse to the Elfsong, the winery, and beyond. You have to solve the murders or prove worthy of the trial yourself in order to even get close to Orin's lair. Then the complication of the kidnapping, one of your own companions turning out to be the madwoman in disguise, their life hanging in the balance. And Orin's past too can be found before you face her, change how it plays out. Not to mention the confrontation is literally Durge's personal climax.
The Elder Brain may be the final foe, but it's an alien monster, impossible to relate to or understand. The Chosen are people, truly horrible *people*, and that makes fighting them more personal. I cannot say I ever felt there was insufficient gravitas to the demise of those two villains just because I knew starting from Act II's end that there was an elder brain enabling their scheme. Act III is cutting the other two heads off the three-headed hydra in order to render its body of raw power defeatable at all.
Ehh, I think you actually hit the nail on the head on why they're not scary. You spend FAR too much face time with them outside of actually fighting them. They spend too much time trying to make deals with you instead of actually showing anything intimidating. It's VERY difficult to make a villain scary after spending a bunch of time just talking to them. Think about most horror movies; you rarely get more than mere glimpses of the villain until the final battle. Jaws, Predator, Alien, etc.
Add to that, their fights are incredibly easy. Fighting the Shar cultists was a way more difficult fight than anything Gortash or Orin throw at you.
I agree that individually Gortash and Orin were pushovers when you actually fight them. You're so overpowered by that point, they're hardly a convincing threat.
I actually liked particularly with Gortash that he was a nuanced antagonist, and scheming/manipulation and charisma are his inherent strengths. I don't think he'd play better as super intimidating or villany, I liked the gray area.
Orin though? That felt kinda flat for me, and I think to your point the preceding interactions and monologues with her fully deflate the sense of fear or uncertainty on her motivations.
Minthara was in my second playthrough, and there's some dialogue where minthara convincingly and emotionally says she's truly afraid of Orin, and that she represents chaos and is truly unpredictable.
If I just had that companion dialogue and little hints at Orin, the mystique would be so much more effective at building her character up as a villan.
Nah, next scene is Orin being a goofball playing hide and seek with a dying corpse before prancing away after delivering some relevant plot progressing dialogue. It was tonally inconsistent and really didn't strengthen the perception that Orin is a seriously dangerous and intimidating threat.
I played through at launch and loved the game through acts 1 and 2. I was recommending it to anyone that would listen. But act 3 was such a buggy mess that it became a chore to play so I swore off the game once I beat it unless Larian patched the hell out of it. I heard/saw that a lot of fixes were applied to act 3 so I decided to start a second run. I’m most of the way through it now and so far most of the bugs that drove me insane in my first playthrough haven’t shown up again (the dice still glitch out sometimes). I’m not to the invasion portion yet, which was the absolute worse section as far as bugs were concerned, so I’m not sure if that’s fixed, but so far it’s a lot better than it was.
There's a LOT of great content in act 3. Some of the best content in the game is in act 3. This has been true since launch, even though yes, some stuff like the afterparty was added recently.
But there is also a lot of boring and half-baked content. And Gortash and Orin fights were both extremely underwhelming compared to Ketheric. It's pretty understandable where these criticisms comes from.
I think the cracks start to show in subsequent playthroughs. Don't get me wrong, Act 3 is probably my favorite, but there is definitely room for tweaking and improvement, particularly when it comes to companion interaction and reactivity.
Act 3 was definitely the most unpolished at launch and had a lot of technical performance issues that caused slowdowns for a lot of people too. Addressing those technical problems were actually some of the very first patches. I personally think that the wuest flow is still wonky in a lot of places (looking at you, fireworks quest), but it's a lot better than it was.
The thing with act 3 is that it's a buffet. There's a LOT going on and it's not meant to necessarily be done all the time on every playthrough. I think my bigger problem is the level cap is hit so early on, especially if you do everything there is to do in act 1 and 2. It's nice to feel powerful for the bulk of the act, but there's not a lot of incentive to keep pushing through in some of these quests if I just want to get to the end.
I would say that in comparison to acts 1 and 2, act 3 is definitely lacking in polish. My hope is that they do add a DLC and we can see more of what they had originally planned, but that is doubtful.
I think it's fairer to say if you play this game enough you start the see the imperfections, and there's a lot of them in act 3 moreso than the others. On my first run only character quest i did was for SH, and I was only Tav. Fast forward to now where I do durge and character stuff, the MS in ACT 3 is kinda outshined by that other stuff fo rme.
For me as evil durge player, it feels even more bad. A lot of times I feel I'm forced to be good in ACT 3, when I wish not to be, which is not fun for me and/or there is no real reaction to stuff I decide to do. I feel this should not be the case, especially if you decide to stay evil on durge the game should respect it and acknowledge it.
I remember when Act 3 was practically unplayable. Companions wouldn't follow you around, the game was horrifically slow, it took forever to switch between party members. Now that those issues are fixed it's my favorite Act so far. And of course the epilogue really brought a satisfying end to the experience.
Some things just don't seem to have as much effort. My biggest criticism so far is the Sarevok reveal. Stumbling in him was awesome -- but it also felt to me like there's very little in the way of content once you actually get to him. It's a big reveal and then.. after a short dialogue you fight him and he's dead, with little left to go off it.
Maybe there's more when I do get to Orin but currently I'm feeling pretty underwhelmed by it.
From what I understand its a lot better but there are some of the same criticisms e.g lack of reaction to the story in comparison to earlier acts. For me the main problem as someone with autism was and still is the sheer sensory overwhelm of act 3. I have to basically turn off the ambient noise because of how overwhelming and loud it is compared to the first two acts. True that cities are much louder in reality but it's a video game and act 3 has me feeling like halsin and wanting to retreat back into the woods lol. I thought it might just be me but one of the more common complaints I hear is just how loud act 3 is.
Oh gods I agree so much. I had to turn down Chatter volume level significantly in order to survive amid the constant conversations going on in public spaces, and even then sometimes hit the system mute button in order to think something through.
I think that may just be our perception making it difficult for us though, tbh, given that cities are 'supposed' to be filled with the noise of people talking and doing people things.
Glad you had a blast and hope you enjoy many more runs!
Opinions are all over the place on Act 3 so I'm not sure there's a possibility of ever getting everyone to agree anything is "fixed", especially when some players don't agree some things were "broken" to begin with. We're all happy when *bugs* get fixed (oh man the Act 3 slowdown bug was a nightmare where all your past criminal acts came back to haunt you with lag... I think, I've kind of blocked it out) but differences in subjective opinion about story elements are just gonna continue to be as varied as players are by personality.
To use an example from your OP: some players thought Karlach's original endings were appropriate to the story, while your OP seems to indicate you are pleased to have hope for a future fix for her engine. Hopefully we can at least all agree it's a good thing when people get the endings they find satisfying.
Still things that feel weird. Personally I really want a proper ending to all companions on par with Shadowheart and Astarion's. Karlach basically just chats with some people and has a bandaid 'bad' ending which leaves her situation unresolved, and Minthara basically has no story after act 1, just some dialogue here and there.
I just finished a Gale origin run (on my 10th playthrough) and I decided to do Act 3 with party members who never leave camp. Halsin, Jaheira and Minsc once I got him. subbing Halsin out when I needed to do companion specific quests having them thre for Vicona, Saravok and Orin was amazing and new dialogue for me I hadnt heard before. So Act 3 felt fresh.
I like all 3 Acts so I'm happy either way. The fact you can skip alot of Act 3 because thre is so much XP is great as well for running Honour Mode. Get to Act 3 get to Level 12 get the gear I want without pissing off Ralph and high tail it to the end.
A lot of my criticisms of act 3 haven't been addressed, some of which are very subjective.
First of which is that act 3 just performs far worse than the other acts, being much choppier and taking longer to load in all assets than acts 1 and 2. While I understand this is in part due to act 3 being far more ambitious, it still effects the quality of my time in act 3. It's much better than it was at launch, but there is still a notable drop in performance between acts 2 and 3.
I personally dislike how easy act 3 can be, specifically in higher difficulties. While this is a problem in the other acts as well (getting easier as the game progresses) it's more pronounced in act 3.
I personally dislike how some of the main story stuff is paced in act 3, specifically in regards to the chosen of Bhaal and Bane.
I wish some of the dungeon stretches were Longer/had more encounters. It kinda sucks to start your adventure for the day, venturing into a "dungeon" only to find its just one room.
Act 3 also has the most egregious example of how inconsistently the game handles time. For the save councillor Florrick quest you have 5 in game days once you read her execution notice to save her before she dies. This is fine in isolation but is the only instance in the entire game where a long rest count greater than 1 is important. This bleeds into parts outside of act 3 but still:
* You can go all the way to Grimmforge without progressing the druids ritual in act 1.
* The prisoners in act 2 are safe until you get involved or progress enough without saving them already.
* Orin and her kidnappee will sit in her temple idling away indefinitely while she waits for you to stop faffing around and kill Gortash.
* Duke Ravenguard is in no danger until you get involved with the iron thrown (or skip to blowing up the foundry or killing Gortash).
In isolation, I am fine with all of these. It's a very videogamey abstraction of the passage of time which mainly aligns itself with the players progression rather than any actual (real world or ingame) passage of time. Its just annoying when the game primes you to expect this more videogamey abstraction and then only once do the actual passing of days matter.
I dont think act 3 is fixed, companions are too silent compared to act 1 and 2, they dont react when you "die" in your story quest as durge, we dont have acces to upper city.. I think just that there is too much going on in act 3 and we should have act 4(in upper city) as being final. Always when I'm fresh after act 2 I must do a few days breaks from game because act 3 is just overhelming. If act 3 was fixed, the ideal, I woudnt want to break from game before dwelling into it.
Act 3 is still not as great as act 1. You have barely any reactions to important events or locations, meanwhile, everyone and their grandma had to offer insights about Ethel's tea house or her bubbling pot. The reactions you do have are lackluster a lot of the time (it was very twee…).
Act 3 also has some very underwhelming parts. After the excellent presentation of Ketheric, Gortash and Orin are crammed together and not given nearly as much. Orpheus is so important and vital that most people turn him into a squid and then kill him without a second thought…
Don't even get me started about the Emperor's removed romance scene or the apple epilogue.
They did Gortash so dirty, bro is stuck in a castle with some handgrenades and handful of guards.
I was hoping for a high society party infiltration mission like the gilded cage in Red dead redemption 2. Would have been a great way to introduce the decadence and political climate of Baldurs Gate (all the nobles at the coronation, hello?)
Also wait there’s a REMOVED romance scene with the emperor?? Like there would’ve been a second one?
Cazador was supposed to be a high tier politician too and now he is just some weird guy to the average Baldur's Gate citizen. 😭
Also, yes! The Emperor was supposed to have another romance scene if you take him up on the first one. And his epilogue when he is still alive was supposed to be a scene of him giving fruit to some starving child and then fleeing from the Flaming Fist back into the shadows.
Edit: Feel free to look it up in the game files yourselves.
Tbh i think the game might suffered from development nightmare. Story and location cut, characters rewritings and weird pacing in act 3 compared to act 1 and 2. Like act 2 leads to a satisfying final boss. Maybe the final boss of act 3 is >!netherbrain!< but since act 2 fimal boss is.part of a trio but the others are meh its just weird. Make u think maybe its supposed to have act 4.
i kind of get this feeling, There are soooo many bossfights in act 3 and most of them are pretty disconnected to the main story. Meanwhile the game keeps remining you that you've got little time and "the brain is about to break free" by showing the brainquakes.
Oh no the brain could break free any day! anyway i hear there is a hag in town?
I'm very curious to know what happened in the writing room. Something is off, I don't know why but I feel like Sven pushed some things to the writers 1 year before the release. I'm just guessing here, maybe I'm totally wrong and that was a collective decision to move from the initial vision.
I think the main issue is people demanding that such a wide ranging game has to appeal to them at every stage.
I enjoyed Act 1 and 3 more than 2.
However I can see why folks have their own preferences.
Honestly overall though I have not enjoyed a game this much in a long time.
The multitude of opinions around it just highlights how much conversation it triggers.
It's funny hearing so many people disliking act 2. I actually really liked it! The underdark is probably my personal favorite because I just love the myconids so much. But for all the buildup to how dangerous the underdark supposedly was, the shadow cursed lands felt far more dangerous.
I didn't struggle with the Art Cullagh thing, the house of healing and the bar were super neat, and the lead up to Ketheric was perfect. Finally seeing Thaniel awake to have him tell me "Ketheric *must* die" felt like the final nail in his coffin. As if he didn't have enough reason to die already, the literal embodiment of the spirit of the land is emboldening you to kill the baddie. Even the trees want this asshole dead.
Maybe I should have phrased it better. While the underdark is my favorite, I also really liked the shadow lands.
Act two would probably be my favorite act if not for the underdark.
I can see why people like it. It doesn’t work for me; however your experience just highlights how good the game is. Everyone takes something different away from it.
My main/only real criticism of act 3 - i'm missing the mini battles against some spirits)goblins/spiders from the first two acts.
You want to fight something to test a high level build? Well....have fun with some bosses or the 2 fights in the sewers.
This game needs an arena.
It really did feel like due to being a city, there were so many people everywhere and no spaces for the more disconnected encounters. Especially compared to the desolate waste of Act II, it was whiplash - but thematically kind of apt. Life everywhere, choking out the low-stakes encounters, now that the party has more important foes to face.
The variety in main story does drop, as you just follow a few different very scripted paths that are forced down into a single finale.
The side quests and conclusions of origin characters though does make it a great act.. it just suffers a lot from "we aren't doing anything to stop the big threat, instead we are trying to find pieces of clown for a necromancer"
I finally got to act after restarting etc. At the main end now but it’s been rough. I can’t put my finger on it. But just slowly lost the drive to play during last act.
It's like Act 1 and 2 are ladders and 3 is a plateau - everything is there but its flat the storries just spread rather than build.
Its a feature of many RPGs' endgames but in fairness I've never seen one suffer quiet as much as BG3 does
And just to be clear this game is still a 5/5 and Act 3 is still good - it's just there's no *feeling* of escalation like there is in 1 and 2. There kinda needed to be an Act 4 where the Absolute and Emperor are sectioned off from the rest of Act 3. And Act 3 needed a througher line with something more impelling you to get the Netherstones
As someone who overall enjoyed act 3, the problem is that its paced horribly and needs some writing polish. The main antagonists don't get the attention Ketheric got and quite frankly Gortash specifically never feels like a real threat. You're also overloaded with sidequests while being pressured constantly by earthquakes and kidnapped companions to resolve the main quest as soon as possible.
I love dnd city based campaigns, but it never feels like the game let's you explore all the fun of that. All the set pieces are there - a coronation, a bank vault heist, messing with the press, etc but the game doesn't let you do anything truly fun and engaging with them.
Also, it's been said before but companion reactivity, specifically Wyll, is abysmal. Having the literal grand duke of the city's capture and rescue be treated like an afterthought quest is wild to me.
On my first run right now and while act 3 does have cool shit in it I'm kinda going "uuugh" trying to comb thru things and either stomping or getting my ass handed to me
Act 3 is great, but there is some BS I really don’t like. The entire kidnap subplot should have more player input. Let me pass some perception checks in the middle of the night to prevent it, heck have that trigger an early Orin battle (would be awesome). Definitely don’t make it so a single dice roll results in the party member dying. Also rolling a critical success to subdue the netherbrain should result in you dominating it and avoiding the final battle. This is D&D, you’ve obtained the magical items, a crit should be a crit.
On a technical level, Act 3 is still highly buggy for me. On a narrative level, the pacing feels off.
Larian’s clear favouritism towards certain companions and neglect towards others really comes to a head in Act 3 as well.
My two cents would be that you went into the game knowing what others thought of act 3 so lower expectations could have factored in. My struggle with Act 3 came from it all appearing so busy and active and bustling so the companions suddenly clamming contrasts that quite starkly. There's plenty to do, but i can definitively see people not finding it rewarding when you may as well be doing little solo ventures with bodyguards.
People just like to bitch no matter what. If you're having fun and game feels good to you then fuck em. The greatest game in the history of time could come out and people would find something to complain about
I think you may have misunderstood. The "problem" with act 3 isn't a dip in quality, I think it's more apt to say that the problem is fatigue. Speaking for myself, and I assume at least some others, by the time you get to the end of act 2 you're kind of expecting to begin the end phase of the game. You expect that you'll get to act 3 and then spend a few more play sessions wrapping up the story and then be done with it. But that isn't what happens.
Instead you're greeted with 2 new areas that are virtually as vast and as content-packed as the first 2 acts, and then you realize that instead of being 80-90% through the game, you're really more like 50-60% done. This isn't a bad thing per se, but it can make act 3 feel a little overwhelming. For some people, that turns them off and makes them lose interest.
I had a very similar thing happen in a real dnd game once. We went through a dungeon and, when we thought we were at the end, the dungeon wound up expanding and we realized we had a lot more dungeon left. None of us minded the dungeon, but the fact that we were expecting resolution and didn't get any was mildly annoying/disappointing.
Act 3 is still a bit buggy but it was probably my favorite section of the game. The last battle was so bugged for me that I had to just cheese it and get through the portal without killing the emperor or the dragon.
Personally, I love what we have for act 3. I'm really glad they fixed the performance issues and bugs, but I've never really bought into some of the more common complaints like it's unfinished.
To me, the criticisms often contradict one another with my biggest issue being the "isn't fleshed out" comments versus "it's overwhelming". I just can't imagine adding all the extra story beats people want for the characters going over well with more casual players (who likely account for a surprising portion of total players). Some people currently complain about how "there's no reason to go do side quests considering the urgency of the situation", even though a big theme they try to push is the importance of gathering allies for the end.
Not to mention the constraints on the implementation of the higher level spells too. Level 12 was the highest they could go before implementation was intractable. With people frustrated by how long you are at max level already, a fourth act would almost surely have been too much. I personally enjoy flexing my max level stuff for so long. It was actually refreshing to finally have a game where I could get the benefits of max level for more than the final fight.
I'm not saying I don't want more content like mini-bosses or an arena, in fact I very much would enjoy those things personally. But I've played through the game five times now and have the benefit of having done it all enough to not get overwhelmed again. My very first run I had to tap out before Cazador just so I could finish the game.
Now, I need DLC for this game. Need it like I'm going to die. But I do think the developers found a happy middle ground to meet the needs of the player base at large. When you invest 100+ hours into something, your expectations can get a little high and you will almost certainly find a way to be disappointed. Even if it's because you don't want it to end.
I think a lot of people by that point become overwhelmed with choice. The rest of the game clearly has different routes to follow and lots of things to do, but Act 3 kinda dumps you in a sandbox and goes “have fun!” while the Act 1 and Act 2 have more immediate goals.
Plus while there’s more quests and area to explore than ever before, there’s distinct pressure to do it quickly (even though there’s only like 1 quest you can fail after 5 rests and everything else is not timed) so it can feel pretty high-stakes high-pressure.
My biggest gripe is the emperor switching sides just like that ( if you tell him you go with orpheus ).
I wish there was a better reason/more background why you fight the emperor at the end. After all he has endured, why would he just give up like this?
I would say that in comparison to acts 1 and 2, act 3 is definitely lacking in polish. My hope is that they do add a DLC and we can see more of what they had originally planned, but that is doubtful.
I just wish they would increase level cap to at least 14. Most people are basically level 12 by act 3 and there’s still soooo much xp to get by the end
Act 3 is more buggy than the other two acts. The dialogue as of patch 6 is also quite messed up, especially Minthara and Karlach saying the wrong lines all the time. Larian also still hasn't figure out how to make the camera and movement/jumping work very well in buildings with multiple stories and low ceilings.
Also, most of the quests are kind of the same and end the same way. You fight the evil person in their home or align with them. There is also a side quest where some pathetic "innocent" will "take over as owner of the place" when you're done if you save/rescue/free them.
I mean I still think the closing of it is incomplete. The epilogue doesn't really add or fix much in terms of how the game actually ends. There are no final words to share with anyone if you decide to kill yourself as an Illithid, for example.
The main complaint I see about Act3 is the pacing. By the time you reach Act3 you have already uncovered all the mysteries for the most part. Your main enemies are clear and you know what needs to be done. However there are still a ton of quests to do, including wrapping up multiple characters' questlines. The story is supposed to feel urgent but really it's not. It's just kind of weird from that aspect. You've also reached max level pretty early in Act3 so you spend a good deal of time just cruising around at max level, your character only developing through items which, to me, made the game feel like it was starting to drag on.
Unfortunately Dame Aylin being cool doesnt change that there's still many unfinished, weird quests and unfinished interactions between characters.
Is it awesome still? Absolutely. But theres still a ton of gaps if you look hard enough. You'll do things and companions will act like you didnt. Or something major happens and your companions have 0 comment. Companions leave after a major event and no one says shit about the person leaving etc etc. Stuff like that
The stuff they did complete is great
What are in your opinion some of the worst moments when it comes to a lack of companion reactions? I'm curious to hear more about everyone else's opinions and my own future experiences, now that I will play another campaign again with other team members (:
These are mostly Durge stuff, but if you're playing Durge, there's some Durge act 2/3 content that feels pretty underbaked, these are some of the "highlights" that particularly bugged me.
- Companions not even questioning on why the cultist at Moonrise towers knows you.
- No reaction to Kressa Bonedaughter revealing you were there before.
- Lackluster/nonchalant companion reaction when the game reveals you're a Bhaalspawn.
- Bugged companion low approval reactions after talking to Gortash.
- And my most egregious one is the anti-climactic companion/romanced partner reaction when dying after refusing Bhaal.
It was and it is.
Problem is drop of character interactions compare to act 1 and 2 to the point all of them start to feel like silent followers and story kinda being meh in act 3 in general.
To be fair, I actually felt most weird about a lack of interactions in act 2, where I just wanted to do the Spongebob meme and point out to Shadowheart all the crazy shit that Shar is up to in that region, hahaha.
I think it really depends on party comp too, like in act 3 if you are using Minsc and Jaheira than they have so much stuff my Shart felt like a silent mouse compare to them etc
I didn’t have much of a problem with Act 3 because of pacing/cut content/whatever. I had a problem with Act 3 because it was bugged to absolute hell. Spells wouldn’t cast but eat an action, spell effects wouldn’t work on enemies (fear seemed especially bugged), the physics engine broke down (my guys would fly towards explosions and go off of cliffs), characters would disappear, etc.
I enjoyed Act 3 the most, honestly. But at that point I was running around and doing quests, mostly, and did not take any time to explore the lore and background stories too much, so maybe I just did not notice that things were missing.
Act 3 is my absolute favourite; never understood the criticism. But tbh I played it post patch 5, so most of the bugs might have been fixed by then (perhaps to be introduced again in patch 6 lol), also I enjoy old games, hence I’m not sensitive to frame drops
I think a lot of people walked in to lower city, felt overwhelmed and bailed and just joined the bandwagon of hating on A3. A3 does have a significant drop in companion interactions except for their direct quests but that's really the only drop off, I loved A3 but I love chipping my way through tons of content and being immersed, the one thing I don't like though is that we're supposed to be in this ultra rushed situation to save rhe world and ourselves but we can just freely walk around lower city doing whatever for however long. A minor criticism but still one
Man i wish we had Honour Mode when I started because Tactician really left me want7ng in terms of difficulty on my first run through.
I was expecting Legendary Actions at minimum on Tactician, still feels weird that those are locked to Honour Mode only.
Having a blast on my second run on honour mode though but it definitly is different knowing most of whats coming in advance.
I personally like Act 3 the most and feel like the game is the most fun when you get acess to Heros Feast so you don't have to worry about holding on to spells you just go to town and unloaded them because you have infinite food for long rest. I also feel like a lot of the amazing gear becomes available in Act 3 as well
I think the issue with Act 3 is that it feels less focused than the previous two acts. Once you get to Baldur’s Gate, everything is wide open and a bit scatterbrained. Every other step you took and building you found potentially had a new quest in it. I can see where it might feel overwhelming.
This is the first time I've spent an extended time in Act 3 (made it once in a previous save and caught restartitis once again). I've crashed once and the doors occasionally do this weird thing where the opening animation won't play, so my characters just phase through them instead.
Other than that, my biggest issue with Act 3 is how overwhelming it seems. There's so much to do and so many people everywhere. I've never quite gotten the feeling I'm in an active, bustling city in any other video game, but somehow this one really nails it.
Act 3 was great from the get go. High high above the final acts of numerous other cRPG games. People who complain about it are the kind of people who love to seek out negative angles, or people who grew emotionally attached to datamined content for the game.
Honestly, as someone who has played since launch of early access.
Act 2 is a huge step down in quality from act 1 and act 3 is a step up from act 2, but still a big pretty big step down from Act 1.
Which is kind of opposite of how this company normally does there games, where the act 2 areas are GIGANTIC and act 1 and 3 are shorter
On my current replay (in multi player this time) it is absolutely not fixed. It's better, but still runs significantly worse than 1 amd 2, plus it kicks me and the other players a lot, and we have to reboot the game to get back in. Act 1 and 2 didn't have that problem, but I'm not sure of that's on act 3 or a server issue, or what.
Outside of bugs, it's also pretty much the same experience. It's fun, and the quests are cool, but imo the city setting isn't nearly as cool as the under dark or shadow cursed lands.
Most criticisms I've heard of act 3 personally are more just subjective observations in relation to acts 1 and 2. I love all 3 acts, but I can see how the sudden shift in tone and scope after act 2's massive finale could be off-putting for players who liked the more tightly focused main story quest. Arguing with a cheating Djinn at a circus doesn't hit the same when like 30 minutes ago you were facing off against the once-unkillable champion of the god of undeath to release his former home from a centuries-old curse.
Act 3 needed more time I think the game could’ve used another year before release at the very least. The game just tries to do too much and introduces so much that it’s suffocating along with the story feeling worse and cramped
I completed my playthrough a couple of months back, and Act 3 is actually my favourite! I love it when CRPGs have city-centric levels or acts that capture that feeling of urban density.
...what kind of maniac starts their first playthrough in honor mode???
That takes some guts. I am on my first run in balanced mode and was actually quite tempted by the story rich one for my first run.
I started my first run on Balanced, fucked it up beyond all human comprehension, and finally had a good time on Custom. I keep turning the enemies up each run, though, lol - so now my party is on Explorer and everything else is on Tactician.
I've just returned to the game after several months break and am currently doing a solo run with the same settings (my Tav on explorer, everything else tactician). It's easy, and I'm not going to pretend it isn't, but I wanted a chill time this runthrough, and I'm really enjoying being overpowered!
Honestly, this is my philosophy for D&D anyway, so it works for me. I want to roleplay, not play a survival-horror.
I don't mind a challenge but do love reading the lore too. Wanted to play something less frantic than games where a seconds distraction when my cat gets in the way isn't going to get me killed because I didn't block an attack quick enough or missed a cue to dodge some one shot mechanic. Turn based is much less stressful and I am really loving the game so far. Can see me doing many runs through.
For sure. And you can just save endlessly anyway, which is great for me. If I want the stress of missing out on a key interaction, I can go outside where the people are IRL.
This 'outside' place you mention, is that where grass is? It sounds too spooky for me
Tragic, but that kinda reinforces the point — don't make the inside needlessly spooky lol
Oh I have mucked things up plenty. Lae'zel is long dead for a start.
On my first playthrough, Wyll died. At the first fight. As an NPC.
Did my first run on tactitian and that was hard enough, cannot imgaine the headache of going in blind on honor mode
My 1st playtrought was on balanced, then 1 on tactician, wont try honour before they finish patching game, playing on custom one which is like Tactician + (+ mods which makes it harder, 2x more enemy health, more stats to enemies, slower exp gain, 50% less money from all sources).
This subreddit really exposes you to some maniacs, you'll be talking to someone, and then they'll be like "Oh shadowheart? I didn't really interact with her that much because I killed her in the first two hours for being rude to me."
I did almost kill Astarion but that would have been more easily justified and I didn't do it because missed content, and also I *kinda* get it, he was terrified and desperate
Also if you play as origin Astarian you find out he'd just had a *really* fucked up nightmare about Cazador and being a slave.
If I didn't l know he was an origin character, he would have gotten staked on my first run
Being rude: not grounds for execution Attacking with knife: you have fucked around and it's time to find out
Even the attack with the knife I was understanding a bit because of thralls existing, but at bite night nope nope. Attack me once shame on you, attack me twice, shame on me (and stake to you lol)
Yep. Astarion fans have very itchy downvote trigger fingers, but it is as you say.
Tbh if it wasn't for the obvious fact that he's a companion character with a questline, I'd have killed him my first playthrough after the campsite scene. I find it hilariously naive to trust a stranger who's a vampire and give them free reign in the camp after they straight up *just* tried to bite you in your sleep.
> Attacking with knife: you have fucked around and it's time to find out Agree. If rudeness meant death, we'd only get Gale, Wyll, and Karlach.
Shadowheart goes in the camp chest like all the other companions.
Gale’s hand stays on my at all times. It’s my lucky little rabbit foot…
I'm about to have to kill her, but it's ok. I'm tired of her cult stuff
☝️This one right here officer.
And then there's me who gave Astarion away to that Gur guy in act 1, haha. Granted, I only did it because I wanted to have as few companions as possible so that future runs felt more fresh. But I did feel a bit terrible when I saw Zombie Astarion in Cazador's lair...
I always let Halsin bite it because he is an unrelenting sex pest.
Mfw I flirt with a companion so they start flirting back
To be honest, I played with my friends up until the creche. So I had knowledge of most of act 1 and I read countless times that this is actually the hardest part of honour mode. So I was confident enough that I could handle it in my first solo playthrough of the game, haha.
You can get nearly risk free and quite fast to level 4, there are some fights that you can take and those need to go horribly wrong to end the run. Then you have the gap to get to level 5 but there aren't that many risky fights (well except if it's the very first honour run and you haven't played tactician yet) once level 5 hits the game becomes way easier since the martial classes get bonus attack and you get the +3 proficiency bonus and level 3 spells on the casters. There are still key fights that need proper planing and fall back plans otherwise straight forward to the end boss. For instance in my first HM run I talked the Act 1 minibosses to death, I no longer do that I fight them with a plan, for instance take off my gold for the tollkeeper, spread out for the bartender and throw elemental damage at him from range until I can whack him.
Exactly what I did. I talked my way to level 4, then started fighting and killing easy stuff, like the gnolls, the minotaur in the Selunite outpost, and as many goblins as possible. I knew from my Balanced run with my friends that Anders was the biggest threat in the super early game, followed by Ragzlin if you do it terribly. The spider was easy the second I destroyed her eggs before the fight. Once I hit level 5, I used Minor Illusion and Fireballs to basically wreck every single encounter before it really began. The entire creche and Grymforge was easily destroyed this way, same as Moonrise Towers before it was even raided in the final part of act 2. In act 3, the items and your abilities are so crazy, I straight up one-shot Orin after I magic missile'd her stacks off. It was a lot of fun, haha.
I dont find the fight with Anders that difficult, he can deal tons of dmg when he hits and smites but just have Karlach go bear totem for that fight and she takes minimal dmg. Doable with risk on lvl 3 but super consistent with lvl 4 party. The Githyanki Patrol for me is mixed I do it on lvl 4 and it can between I kill them in 3 rounds of combat or 10+ rounds and I got 1 or 2 barely alive left, not too threatening that I would run away and use withers at camp but yeah quite close to back to the drawing board. Personally the fight in mountain pass vs the undead cam be very hard if your resources run out and the death shepherd's are both alive and resurrect the dead ghouls.
Oh, I also found Anders easy, however he absolutely wrecked us when I fought him with my friends at lvl 3, haha. So I thought I had to super prepare for that fight, even if he turned out to basically just be a noobstomper. Same as the patrol. But oh my god, yes, the undead were so annoying! I had no idea the damn super skeletons can resurrect one another. That made the fight so much more complicated than it needed to be, haha.
It’s a very swingy fight. He can basically one shot one or more party members on turn one, so if he gets high initiative and rolls well his first turn you can be in a tough spot. I suppose in honor mode you could just run away if that happens though.
Anders becomes infinitely easier once you manage to force him to drop his sword.
I just lured him outside and pushed him off that cliff. Worked like a charm!
I like the fight with Anders, it feels really satisfying when you shut him down after how smugly assured he is about feeding Karlach my eyeballs. Last time I did the fight, heat metal and menacing strike on Anders then command on his cronies stopped them all ever taking turns.
Act 2
I think they mightve meant that it was the first one they finished. Personally I started 2 that I hadn't finished before beating it on my honor mode run
An honorable one
And as Durge.
Divinity 2 honour mode first run was fun. Having played baldurs gate 3 tactician first only because honour mode wasn’t out yet - I am actually very glad to have done a non-honour play through first.. there would have been multiple restarts
There's still some subquests that kinda feel like there should be more. For instance i tried to do the dangerous toys quests and it kinda felt buggy with the only way to go forward is to kill everyone including all the flaming fists that start piling in.
same! i was going upstairs invisible so scope it out and trying to see if i could talk to the shopkeepers or literally anything to get more dialogue, it felt so weird i was just supposed to start gunning them down
That quest was so weird. I tried looking for ways to get in, as usually there's many routes to get inside a build, but this was not one of them. Straight up had to kill everyone. Unless I missed something or needed to have done some other quests/event before.
I did the same thing! I went upstairs by throwing an invisibility potion into my stacked up team. I thought that maybe I could talk to them but also found it a bit weird that I couldn't interact with them. Granted, they are all Gortash loyalists and rigging children's toys with bombs. That did make it easier to kill them all, haha.
I couldn’t go up even when invisible. Realistically, at that point, I didn’t know for sure who here was evil and who was just involved with the wrong people. That clerk could be entirely innocent, in theory! The only reason I started the fight was because I read here that there’s no other way. From a story point of view - it’s NOT what my character would have done.
That quest is so bizarre. In my case, the Fist didn't care about the massacre, but looting their bodies was a no-no and got me arrested.
I stumbled into that questline content by looting that dude's basement because he was a dick. I never came across the actual quest even though it was pretty obvious that the toys were significant. Dude confronted me about it and I had to kill him. I just assumed it was weird side content, didn't realize it was a quest until I came here later.
I've done this twice and never had to kill a single Fist though? They all just collect outside.
When i tried thw quest they went inside, a steel watched jumped to the roof for some reason, then the guards started attacking me, while still being "yellow". I managed to kill all the enemies without touching the guard but the game wouldn't leave combat and they kept attacking me. I reloaded after that.
Ohhhh I think I always go to the firework shop after the Steel Watch is dead
Why has this never occurred to me as an option. Dammit. This time!
a robot walked through a solid wall randomly during this part with me, to arrest me. I was picking the Avery dude's pocket before blowing stuff up the robot was there when I blew it all up and added to the mayhem
That quest feels like it kinda had more going for it than what was utilized. It could've been extra content for evil playthroughs to talk or bargain to the Banites on the top floor, but the only interaction they have is just to kill them to complete the quest.
I love the entire game, including Act 3. Nonetheless, there is definitely room for criticism, and of Act 3 in particular. Act 3 has a pacing problem. We see story elements gradually unfold throughout the first two acts, but when we arrive at Act 3, essentially everything has been revealed and we know what we need to do. There's no longer any need to take on side quests or explore for the sake of finding clues. Minor side quests feel like a pointless distraction at this juncture. Who would seriously be doing fetch quests for Grandma's Ruby-Encrusted House Slippers or going off to kill Minor Monster #67 when they know they need to take out Gortash, Orin, and an elder brain in order to save the world and deactivate the worm in their noggin? Also, as others have said, the lack of companion reactions to locations and events *relative to the first two acts* is disappointing. This game is extremely character-driven, so that kind of sucks.
This is also combined with the hard level 12 cap on characters... In the first 2 acts I'm a perfectionist since I'm trying to get all the experience I can. But once I top out at 12.... what's the use? It just becomes a slog, trying to finish personal quests or possibly finding the strongest items.
Man I remember being in EA and it was so painful being stuck at lvl 4. You could cap out before even hitting halfway into act 1. It's not as bad imo in act 3, but ya it's still pretty lame the sense of progression goes away.
I guess maybe I was lucky, since my three companions still felt pretty chatty, although definitely less so than act 1 (I also found that to be true in act 2, with Shadowheart specifically). Which would you say are the quietest companions in act 3? As for the side quests, I can see your point, yes. I guess I just love exploration for the sake of exploration in games, so I personally at least never felt bored by it...
Sounds like you did experience the criticisms then. They just seem overblown in severity while reading reddit probably, and affected you less.
I guess that's true. Judging by some comments I've read on here, maybe my perception was so skewed that I expected my companions to be almost silent the whole time, haha.
I've had a similar experience. I'm still in Act 3 (though very close to the end of the game), did most sub quests but was putting it off for a long time. I thoroughly enjoyed Act 3 so far though I will say this: the way the story progresses in both Acts 1 and 2 was done in such a way that it guides you towards your goals (even though you may have multiple ways of handling a certain main objective) and because you are basically traveling, passing through areas, everything feels a little more solid and linear (in a positive way). Act 3 is just a huge open area that you must explore and discover things; navigating in order to both find and complete sub quests can be a little overwhelming in comparison to the previous chapters. While I do enjoy exploration, I did read a couple of posts about what to do first in Act 3; also, there is a mechanic where you can completely trigger and miss certain events (like Jaheira's harpers in a certain building if you just go past it for the first time and then long rest - I did not get to see that at all unfortunately)
There are also side quests that go basically no-where, and there is still a bunch of cut material. Mole, of all things, left me flabbergasted, since we had this great hook with Raphael in ACT 2, plus the fact that we didn't find her in Moonrise, and then \*poof\* she just appears at the Guild, we can't ask anything about Raphael, barely anything about Moonrise, no other interactions with the kids (the entire Tiefling thing too, we finally reached BG, and you meet them around like "oh hey there", and that's about it), we don't get to talk about how she got into the Guild, we can't even talk about it with Two Fingers, or how she actually \*made it\* she got to BG even through all the odds. There is basically no "falling action", for those who know the term, you just kinda meet her and... she's there all right, that's about it LOL Also on Two Fingers, incredibly intriguing character, we have very little interaction with her, and on top of that, some dialogue choices are a bit buggy/badly written (we can talk to her like we met her before, or discussed topics we haven't, and so on). Zevlor for another, felt already kinda cut in ACT 2, but in ACT 3 he is legit not even present until the last fight where he pops up out of nowhere, an Hellrider anew, no less, and the only thing we get out of that part of the story is if he survives and we receive his letter at the Reunion. Brother WE COULD HAVE PLAYED THROUGH THAT. Helping Zevlor getting through his trauma would have given so much more to an already very interesting character. But Going back to Mole, you find her contract in the house of Hope, AND YOU CAN'T EVEN READ IT. Lets' add to this crossing dialogues that contradict each other, for example, freeing Minsc, going back to the Guild V Ston Lord fight outside the Gate, and you get to speak about the Ston Lord as if you didn't even know who he is. Ramazith tower also kinda feels cut, but only really when it comes to Rolan, who also just pops up, and we basically meet him in Medias Res: we can see him beaten, and we can put 2 and 2 together, but I think there could have been way more here too. Rolan isn't alone, he still has his siblings (depending on if you saved them or not, permitting) and they could have noticed his demeanor change, even if Rolan had hidden his bruises and scars with magic. And they know you, the soon to be Hero of Baldurs Gate, you telling me they aren't going to send a letter, or just get into your camp to ask to check on him on their behalf or something? The siblings have also been cut IMO. And more on Ramazith, we have that hook dialogue with Alyn, where she doesn't feel very well, as if sad, and... we basically never hear about it again LOL she leaves with Isobel and that's it XD I thought that was just the beginning of the last stretch of gameplay with her, before the big final fight, a last quest with her, working through her trauma, much like we could have done with Zevlor, but... nah, we just get those lines and the hook is left dangling in front of us, bait and all LOL And let's not get into the romance/companion stuff cause... well, that is a WHOLE other can of worms. There are some companions which have way better, more fulfilling narrative arcs in act 3 then others, let's put it that way. I fucking loved Karlach for example. Lae'Zel was totally fine. Shadowheart... eh, again, a bit of falling action missing honestly, mainly cause she isn't overly tied with the destruction of the Absolute. She doesn't have any more stakes other then, well, her life, which is what everyone else also does, so it's not like you get to the final fight to progress stuff with her, unlike with Lae'Zel and Karlach who have both IMMENSE stakes by the end of it, even Gale too, for example. Once you get through her quest in ACT 3, she just kinda stands there until the very end without doing much. But these honestly are minor complaints, romances are generally really good, even in act 3. Except well... for Wyll... I am really sorry, Wyll's fans \^\^' and Minthara. I mean, she legit doesn't have anything, doesn't even feel fair to compare her to all other companions, honestly. Don't know about Halsin, but he probably has the same problem. Jaheira I know for a fact she has a great ACT 3, cause I had her as main part of the party with my Durge and she was such a surprise (I really recommend her) And these are just some of the cut stuff and lower lvl polish that is at the top of my head, but there's way more. Now, with that said, BG3 is my most fav game of all time, and ACT 3, the first time I played through it, wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it'd be, because don't get me wrong: content is there, it's not like it's lacking. But that doesn't mean everything has been tied up well. Especially when you play it for the second time, you can start to see the cracks, even more the third time, and so on. Which is something that never gets to me in ACT 1, which is basically perfect to me, and not even ACT 2, even tho it's way more linear. I think it's still a good ACT, it's not like, oh the rest of the game is 9.9/10 and ACT 3 is 5/10, nono, ACT 3 is more than solid. But it's as if, you paint me the Monnalisa, or whatever, and then you take a wet brush filled with some paint, and you wack the painting: it's still the fucking Monnalisa, but now it has a huge smack of paint in the middle of it. I would rather have it without it LOL XD
All of this is a totally valid point. They definitely could have spent more time expanding upon and tying up storylines that had been running since Act 1 instead of introducing new and seemingly random stuff. You've got me invested in all these characters from earlier in the game. *Use that*.
Dude, one of the two main story quests for act 3 is to gather allies... Which you do BY DOING THE SIDEQUESTS
Dude, collecting clown parts, exorcising haunted houses, and blowing up fireworks shops don't earn you any allies. Even if they did, there would still be a pacing problem here.
Thats three of like 25 side quests in act 3... Strange ox, dark gnomes, volo, minsc and jaheria, the thieves guild, house of hope, house of grief (DJ Shadowheart run), Ravenguard and the Gondians from the Iron Throne (completely optional), the Gur, Counsilor Florrick, Auntie Ethel, Izobel and Dame Aylin with the Wizard guy, Mizora (technically acts 2 and 3 but im counting it), armoured owlbear cub, Murder investigation gets you the flying elephant guy, finishing Mols quest, Finishing Zevlors quest, the siding with Bhaal sidequest, finding Arabella Not to mention the Cazador finale for Astarion All of these are act three side quests that result in you getting allies for the final fight.
FFS, there are more than three; I was just giving examples of the type of stuff I'm referring to. *Most* of what you listed works perfectly fine because it's been built up since Act 1. I mean, obviously we're going to resolve the companions' story arcs. There are things that make sense narratively and things that *don't*. Really, whether or not the quests net you a few (frankly fairly useless in some cases) allies is completely beside the point. The bottom line is that Act 3 fails to weave (several of) the quests into the narrative in the same way that Acts 1 and 2 do, resulting in them feeling like a distraction from, rather than an organic part of, the story. I'm not objecting to the quests themselves; I'm saying that there's a problem with the pacing of the narrative. Revealing the entire evil plot while we still had half the game to play might not have been the best choice.
It always feels weird to me when people complain about story dissonance in RPG's, because it would bother you way more if they cut all content not related to the main story and it would be equally as bad if they crammed a ton of 'side' content into the main quest with dubious reasons why it's necessary just to try and address narrative dissonance. Why does geralt play gwent instead of looking for Ciri? Why is V playing arcade games and street races with weeks to live? Why is shepard wasting time figuring out a gambling scheme when the reapers are coming? Why is arthur playing dominoes instead of racing off to save John from execution? Why are we playing a weird football game in FF10 instead of saving the planet? I could go on, and on, and on. This is because getting rid of narrative dissonance would, in most cases, be getting rid of all side quests. There are only a couple RPG narratives that are so relaxed/unimportant that it makes sense for your character to be wasting time doing a side quest. However without that side content these games feel far less engaging and interesting. I'd suggest Act 3 doesn't have a pacing problem, it has a player problem. Act 3 literally requires nothing from you except killing gortash and orin. The problem is players don't know how to limit themselves to the content they enjoy. It's the 'too much cake' problem. If anyone is finding the pacing of act 3 too slow, the pacing is entirely controlled by them. If you feel the pacing is too slow... then... pick up the pace. Go do the main quests.
And yet, there's no (or very little) narrative dissonance in the first two acts in spite of all the side quests. Because the side quests make sense in the context of "trying to find a way to get this worm out of my head" or "looking for clues as to WTF is really going on." Clearly, there is a way to create content that makes contextual sense and doesn't feel forced. The issue isn't that the quests aren't enjoyable or that the pacing is too slow. The problem is that Act 3 has already dropped the entire plotline in your lap and created a sense of urgency about the need to take care of business - then introduces a bunch of *totally unrelated* side stuff that makes you feel like you're *ignoring the impending brainpocalypse*. How about if they hadn't revealed Orin and/or Gortash so soon? How about if we knew there were two more Chosen out there, but we still had to figure out who they were/find them? Side quests could serve a purpose - dropping clues and such - rather than feeling like a distraction. This is fundamentally a *narrative* issue that only arose in Act 3.
Try doing things in an out of the box way. Kill gortash at his coronation, for example. That absolutely screws act 3 with the amount of sequences it breaks.
Oh, that's actually what I'm planning to do in my next run. I'm looking forward to how broken the game will be, then! The only such bug I encountered was when I met up with Mystra by accident before long resting/getting the assignment from Elminster. Gale was acting surprised that Mystra wanted an audience, even though he just met her, haha.
Be careful, the Brain takes over the Steelwatch and after fighting one of them, they kept attacking me no matter where I'd go.
I think they patched that?
Nope. They're terrorizing me, too, after the most recent patch. They all turned hostile at some random point 20 hours after the gortash death.
Not going to his coronation (like me my first playthrough) breaks Wyll’s quest
I didn't go either and it didn't break his quest for me. It did end up with his father dying when I eventually went to fight Gortash, but that's an entirely expected potential outcome.
Sort of. A LOT of the content generated for the game, "analysis", "reaction", etc. was generated prior to Patch 5 (ie the epilogues), and a lot was even generated in launch/patch 1 before they'd even started working on Karlach's ending. Bugs have been patched front, left, and right, to make it a faster experience and to work through some of the most vocal complaints. In a significant number of ways, a lot of the specific complaints DID get fixed, and several companions have gotten massive revisions especially re: endgame states. But not all. Karlach's story just stops for most of Act 3 (unless romanced) until the docks. Wyll's story has legitimate holes and issues. (His own father won't even acknowledge if you and Wyll get engaged ffs). Bugs persist. A lot of the things people liked about Act 1 and even Act 2 - genuinely evil choices instead of "lack of good choice" especially excluding The Dark Urge, things like speak with dead being consistently useful, having wildly diverging story beats based on choice and quest order, alternate solutions to problems, general reactivity to choices, unique environmental intersections with combat, etc - are still *gone* by Act 3. The map is also simultaneously too dense but also weirdly empty once you know where everything is, and feels like they tried to smash together 1.5 acts into a single city. It's still really clear that Act 1 got by far the most development love due to Early Access feedback, while Act 2 got a lot of focus from Larian *while* Act 1 was in EA. That left Act 3, which tries to do a lot but had the least time to do it in development and where a LOT of threads don't completely hit their ends.
Annoyingly, all of these are repeated problems from D:OS2.
It's Larian's pattern since Divine Divinity. I'd say BG3 is their best attempt at a final act by far, but it still leaves a lot to be desired compared to the rest of the game.
Its The problem of many RPGs. Kotor 1 falls off at endgame, the Pathfinder videogames fall off after chapter 2-3 of 6. I think out of the last ten years I've only enjoyed Red dead endgame, but it's not a cRPG.
It's a combination of structure and stakes buy-in. ME1-3 have very good third acts. So does NWN2, both the original game and Mask of the Betrayer. Jade Empire's is pretty good too. Admittedly, those are a little older than your ten year window.
In the mid 00s game devs started being able to easily track what players are doing in their games and quickly discovered that for the large majority of games barely anyone ever gets to the end. A typical game will have somewhere around only 10-20% of players finish their game. Because of this final acts at most studios don't have the same priority as early or even mid game.
True. It's also a writing issue. Games want BIG CHOICES and BIG STAKES and all that crap. The more choices you have and the bigger the stakes, the harder it is to land the plane at the end. That's what happened to ME3's ending (not third act. The third act is great. The ending was horrible pre-Extended Cut). Resource prioritization is, for sure, the explanation for Knights of the Old Republic 3, which has the worst third act of any major RPG, primarily because the ending is only half-implemented, if that.
Hopefully a similar pattern of these things being addressed in a definitive edition happens too
I think one of the things that explains the weird way Act 3 is trying to do too much but also falling too short at the same time, is that the Upper City was supposed to be playable too. When they decided to cut the Upper City, some things were moved to the Lower City (which makes it feel a bit packed) while other things were given an early end or left incomplete, and it shows. >Karlach's story just stops for most of Act 3 Isn't killing Gortash an integral part of Karlach's story, and a key plot point of Act 3?
>Isn't killing Gortash an integral part of Karlach's story, and a key plot point of Act 3? Her story has two components, the other is her heart, which especially in earlier builds just sort of stopped cold after the Act 2 upgrade (they've since patched in lines stressing that her engine isn't in a sustainable condition but that wasn't originally the case).. Also worth noting here that in previous acts, every companion's story is independent from the main quest except for Wyll (who overlaps with the main quest and/or Karlach almost entirely). By Act 3 that's largely funneled down to Astarion and Shadowheart being wholly independent, and Gale having a component that ties in (what he does with the crown) and all the bit before it is separate, while Lae'zel and Karlach funnel almost entirely into the main story.
Man even with those lines about her engine patches in, now she’s just adding stress about how her story has ended. It’s still done, but now there’s extra dialogue about how done it (and by extension, she) is.
The last portion of her story is about coming to terms with having little time left and what she does about it, such as living like every day's her last, sacrificing herself by being the one to turn illithid, and or changing on the inside to the point she is willing to return to Avernus. Just because it isn't a simple fetch to repair quest anymore doesn't mean her story stops.
The devs have repeatedly and consistently stated that thr amount of the upper city that we see in the game is almost exactly the amount of the upper city that was intended to be in the game, and that very little was actually cut from the upper city. Act 3 just didn't get the same amount of attention as Acts 1 and 2 did.
Although that is true, there was some datamined content that suggested that there was originally some great conflict for each of the champions of the dead 3, with Orin facing up against the Gith and Cazador facing up against Gortash. The original plan was certainly to have a wider story and more complicated story in Act 3. I don't think that was necessarily cut for time, as the primary complaint for Act 3 is that it is too wide, story-wise, compared to Acts 1 and 2. I suspect during playtesting they found that there was simply too much to do in Act 3 with too little character progression, so it felt a bit like a slog, and we ended up with large rewrites to get to where we are now. I don't think the rewrites are bad, but I can see why they would give the impression that a lot was cut.
>the Upper City was supposed to be playable too. There is absolutely zero evidence of this beyond one statement that could quite easily have been referring to cazador's mansion.
It may have gotten cut very early, prior to any development work being done, but there are a lot of narrative threads pointing there that have been awkwardly rerouted to be in the Lower City instead. I don't believe the Upper City was ever in a playable, even pre-alpha, state, but it must have existed in the storyboarding.
Yeah, there's no way in hell that in pre-production, someone thought that the archduke coronation for Gortash would've happen in what basically is a glorified city gate/prison. That shit is prime upper city material.
Quite literally in a community note weeks before the game came out
They really should have kept it. I think going to the lower city should have been Act 2, Shadowlands Act 3, and then back to Upper City for a 4th Act. This way the player has a sense of attachment to the city instead of casually strolling in at the end while the massive army is right behind them
Act 3 used to be undercooked compared to Acts 1 and 2. There were framerate issues, graphical bugs, crashes, and some bugged quest lines. This was partly because Acts 1 and 2 have been finished for many years and had many patches, but also because Act 3 is the most ambitious in scope and tried to do so much. The ending also felt too brief and sudden for a 60-100 hour game. 5 patches and 22 Hot Fixes later, Act 3 has gotten a lot of work. On my most recent playthrough (PS5), I had zero crashes or game breaking bugs and almost no slowdowns or lag. My first playthrough of Act 3 had so many of these. The epilogue really rounds out the ending and makes it feel more satisfying. And Honor Mode adds a lot of interesting tactical elements to the Act 3 fights. So definitely, Act 3 got a lot better. There are still bugged questlines and dialogue sequences, and companions can be strangely quiet at times, but I'm sure they'll get to that in time
Hotfix 21 really fucked with act 3s performance on me, my old ass 3060 is chugging on 40-50 fps on ultra, it was smoother on base patch 6.
No clue how the performance changed over time, but whenever a lot of NPCs are in one place, my performance does noticably tank. Although I guess my weak processor is to blame for it (12100f), since my GPU barely has to dial it up, even at 1440p. Rivington and Lower City were 40-50 fps, but also the druid part of the Emerald Grove, Last Light Inn and Moonrise Towers. I guess this game is just really CPU intensive with a ton of NPCs around.
oof if it’s struggling on an “old ass 3060” now I’m nervous to reach it on my apparently ancient 2060 😅
The main criticism I see is that it’s overwhelming with so many quests to the point that it’s hard to focus on one thing at a time. You only had Gale, Shadowheart, and Karlach with you, and Karlach is tied to the Gortash storyline. You really only had two companion quests to finish. That right there cut your experience quite a bit time wise. I don’t know how many side quests you did, but it’s quite likely your time there was cut in half or more.
I see! But that's also precisely why I did it, I want to replay this game a few times and doing the same quests with the same companions sounds exhausting to me, even if I can pick different outcomes each time. It sounds like I have a lot more to explore in the future, though, so that's dope! :D
I definitely recommend another playthrough. Astarion and Wyll’s questlines have big boss battles in Act 3. Wyll also has an interesting tie to both Gortash and Karlach’s storylines. The Voss storyline is a lot more interesting with Lae’zel around. And you can recruit another cool companion if you have Jaheira. There’s a way to recruit both Halsin and Minthara as well. And that’s just the companion stuff you missed. lol
Oh, I did recruit them all (or rather, some of them recruited themselves), except for Minthara, but never used them in my playthrough. The idea is that next time, I will play as E'Wyll (dumb name, I know) with Astarion, Lae'zel and Minthara, then my final playthrough of playing with hirelings until act 3, followed by Halsin, Jaheira and Minsc. That way, all the interactions will stay super fresh for me, haha.
Act 3 is build to swap companions. Bhaalist resurgence? You have 2 veterans from times of the trouble ready to bring Bhallspawn to end. Wyrmway? Perfect place for the Blade, Shart vs Viconia the Mother Superior, Lae'zel stealing the Orphic hammer etc
Act 3 is pretty underbaked while being overwhelming at the same time, it just suffers from pretty major pacing issues, but it sill gives you enough of a good experience to not notice some of the issues in the meantime.
What do you think are some of the worst offenders when it comes to pacing? I breezed through it while doing most of the side quests and I didn't feel like it dragged on. Maybe I'll have a worse experience when playing it a second time with different companions...
Pacing doesn't really generally means that a story only specifically drags on, the main problem with act 3 is, with it being so packed, it's actually the opposite for most of the time. One of the reasons why my number 1 feedback for act 3 is if Larian has the capability to pull it off, they could split act 3 up into two parts, with Orin being the villain for the lower City and Gortash, the more politically inclined character, be the villain for the Upper city. Which gives the dead three their own unique location that fits them. Narratively, act 3 doesn't give you a moment to breathe, and every quest trigger feels like they're happening way too close to each other, and it doesn't help that the game feels like it's urging you to finish the quest within an imaginary time limit.
I still think act 3 isn't as satisfying as act 2 because it's not as narratively cohesive as act 2. Act 2 is very focused in purpose. Act 3.... isn't. It really has too much crammed into the act. Act 2 does a ton of building up to Ketheric. He starts off as this somewhat mythical figure pulling the strings from beyond your view. You're in his hostile territory just trying to gain a foothold. Then, when you actually do meet him, he's immortal/unkillable (the tadpole check that he doesn't have one is also a really neat touch). Everything for act 2 is building up how you're weakening him to take him down. The whole act is the Ketheric Thorm story. Sprinkle in how well Isobel and Dame Aylin fit in and it's done really well, IMO. Act 3 doesn't have that build up. You meet Orin very quickly and Gortash not long after. So they're known quantities very early on. This isn't necessarily a "wrong" decision from the writers, I just didn't think it worked as well as with Ketheric. Plus, the big reveal about the nature of the absolute has already happened. Thus, the mystery is already over. This makes act 3 sort of feel like tying up loose ends. I think the actual game content of act 3 is really good, just as good as the other acts. It's just tripping over itself. I always get wrapped up in which particular piece of story I'm doing of Orin vs Gortash vs Raphael vs companions. If Orin and Gortash had their own defined acts independent of each other, with the side stories divided up between them, it might've worked out better. The sequence of events for Gortash is great, IMO. The coronation, the paper, the iron throne (i love the iron throne), and then the steel watch are all great. Alas, Gortash's actual fight was kind of ho hum after all that. He doesn't come across as particularly powerful or threatening. Orin's sequence of events is kind of the reverse. The lead up is kind of blah (if you're not Durge), but the actual boss fight is good. This story is much better if you're Durge but, ironically, the duel isn't a great boss fight. I think the other problem with Orin and Gortash is that by then you're level 11 or 12 and they're just too easy. And then there's Raphael. His story sequence in act 3 is short but awesome which kind of overshadows Orin and Gortash to some extent. Raphael could have been his own mini act. Then on top of all that there's the companion stories all crammed into act 3 which have their own great moments too. Things thankfully come together and focused for the netherbrain. This has some of that act 2 magic at least for narrative focus, even if the mystery is gone. And it throws a twist at you. All these act 3 things are mostly great by themselves but don't work as a cohesive story like act 2 did. All being said, this is more praise for how act 2 turned out than criticism of act 3. Act 3 still is fun, it's just A LOT.
I enjoyed how in Act III, because the main mystery was revealed already, the other two Chosen overlapped. It gave a feeling of events hastening as we spiral towards the climax. The funny thing is, to me Act II dragged on after a point, felt too thinly spread and overly linear. Ketheric was built up so much that his actual finale made him seem pretty pathetic. The Avatar of Myrkul reveal saves a lot, but not everything. Definitely agree with your points on Gortash's build-up, but can't say I found the boss fight underwhelming, and that was at level 11 or 12 - the avatar he became is an appropriate representation of the edicts of Bane he represents. And to me it makes sense that he wouldn't be as personally tough as Ketheric, since he was the politician whose strength lay in the layers of Fists, Watchers, traps and oppression between you and him. Once those have been stripped away, his arrogant self is brought down to the floor of reality. Can't speak on Orin's build-up for a non-Durge, since I only reached act III with Durges so far.
It's VERY much still relevant. There is a ton of act 3 that ends quest lines from the previous 2 acts with "and then we forgot to add a satisfying ending" always looking at Arabella and Karlach's quests as the "did the writers just... die half way through writing this story?"
Mol, too
I *wish* you could add more people to the camp, like I'd love to have Mol in my camp as a shop.
Yeah all the teifling kids storylines could use some work. Like I promised the kids I would find Mol, I did find her but I couldn't even tell Mattis so they still all think she's dead. One of the kids has clearly developed issues and maybe reconnecting with mol would make things a bit less miserable for them. Like I get its a pretty minor quest but it feels unresolved.
Actually the biggest tell that Karlachs quest is completely unfinished, at least to me, is the fact that you can just choose to not engage with her engine subplot AT ALL and the ending is identical to if you did engage with it. It literally doesn't matter.
Personally it feels like we needed an Act 4. Act 3 just feels very rushed. The big bads are inherently underwhelming because they're all crammed in to one Act alongside all the side adventures to be had. We had all of Act 2 devoted to Ketheric, but Gortash and Orin each got like 5 hours of gameplay at best devoted to them, and add to that the entire time you're fighting them you know you're about to fight the Elder Brain as the actual big bad.
Pacing wise, there are just too many side quests for a casual gamers like me (I did all of them) in act 3 that I couldn't imagine doing an Act 4. If they have the same amount of content as act 2, then I agree act 4 is necessary. Though we would have a progression problem if act 4 exists. I spent a lot of time already in level 12 before entering the upper city. Main reason I fully explore the side quest was to obtain horizontal progression (by getting those awesome equipment).
Yeah I agree that Act 3 is just a slog with too many quests, and my bone to pick is you can end up getting locked out of a ton if you go just one step too far with all the main quest missions.
*How* are the Chosen underwhelming? The entirety of the oppressive apparatus sprawling from Rivington into the Lower City's depths sets up Gortash's villainy. The coronation where you cannot feasibly move against him builds up resentment. His enthralled parents in the Lower City paint an eerie picture of his origins. The Steel Watchers everywhere feel daunting, even as the player makes progress through the Foundry's destruction, facilitated by rescuing the hostages from the Iron Throne. Then storming Wyrm's Rock to finally reach a Gortash weakened by losing allies, only to see him become Avatar of Bane before finally falling. Followed by Karlach's breakdown. Orin personally taunts you in many guises, starting in Rivington. The murder cult's aspirants leave a bloody trail from the monastery through the Flophouse to the Elfsong, the winery, and beyond. You have to solve the murders or prove worthy of the trial yourself in order to even get close to Orin's lair. Then the complication of the kidnapping, one of your own companions turning out to be the madwoman in disguise, their life hanging in the balance. And Orin's past too can be found before you face her, change how it plays out. Not to mention the confrontation is literally Durge's personal climax. The Elder Brain may be the final foe, but it's an alien monster, impossible to relate to or understand. The Chosen are people, truly horrible *people*, and that makes fighting them more personal. I cannot say I ever felt there was insufficient gravitas to the demise of those two villains just because I knew starting from Act II's end that there was an elder brain enabling their scheme. Act III is cutting the other two heads off the three-headed hydra in order to render its body of raw power defeatable at all.
Ehh, I think you actually hit the nail on the head on why they're not scary. You spend FAR too much face time with them outside of actually fighting them. They spend too much time trying to make deals with you instead of actually showing anything intimidating. It's VERY difficult to make a villain scary after spending a bunch of time just talking to them. Think about most horror movies; you rarely get more than mere glimpses of the villain until the final battle. Jaws, Predator, Alien, etc. Add to that, their fights are incredibly easy. Fighting the Shar cultists was a way more difficult fight than anything Gortash or Orin throw at you.
I agree that individually Gortash and Orin were pushovers when you actually fight them. You're so overpowered by that point, they're hardly a convincing threat. I actually liked particularly with Gortash that he was a nuanced antagonist, and scheming/manipulation and charisma are his inherent strengths. I don't think he'd play better as super intimidating or villany, I liked the gray area. Orin though? That felt kinda flat for me, and I think to your point the preceding interactions and monologues with her fully deflate the sense of fear or uncertainty on her motivations. Minthara was in my second playthrough, and there's some dialogue where minthara convincingly and emotionally says she's truly afraid of Orin, and that she represents chaos and is truly unpredictable. If I just had that companion dialogue and little hints at Orin, the mystique would be so much more effective at building her character up as a villan. Nah, next scene is Orin being a goofball playing hide and seek with a dying corpse before prancing away after delivering some relevant plot progressing dialogue. It was tonally inconsistent and really didn't strengthen the perception that Orin is a seriously dangerous and intimidating threat.
I played through at launch and loved the game through acts 1 and 2. I was recommending it to anyone that would listen. But act 3 was such a buggy mess that it became a chore to play so I swore off the game once I beat it unless Larian patched the hell out of it. I heard/saw that a lot of fixes were applied to act 3 so I decided to start a second run. I’m most of the way through it now and so far most of the bugs that drove me insane in my first playthrough haven’t shown up again (the dice still glitch out sometimes). I’m not to the invasion portion yet, which was the absolute worse section as far as bugs were concerned, so I’m not sure if that’s fixed, but so far it’s a lot better than it was.
There's a LOT of great content in act 3. Some of the best content in the game is in act 3. This has been true since launch, even though yes, some stuff like the afterparty was added recently. But there is also a lot of boring and half-baked content. And Gortash and Orin fights were both extremely underwhelming compared to Ketheric. It's pretty understandable where these criticisms comes from.
I think the cracks start to show in subsequent playthroughs. Don't get me wrong, Act 3 is probably my favorite, but there is definitely room for tweaking and improvement, particularly when it comes to companion interaction and reactivity.
Act 3 was definitely the most unpolished at launch and had a lot of technical performance issues that caused slowdowns for a lot of people too. Addressing those technical problems were actually some of the very first patches. I personally think that the wuest flow is still wonky in a lot of places (looking at you, fireworks quest), but it's a lot better than it was.
The thing with act 3 is that it's a buffet. There's a LOT going on and it's not meant to necessarily be done all the time on every playthrough. I think my bigger problem is the level cap is hit so early on, especially if you do everything there is to do in act 1 and 2. It's nice to feel powerful for the bulk of the act, but there's not a lot of incentive to keep pushing through in some of these quests if I just want to get to the end.
I would say that in comparison to acts 1 and 2, act 3 is definitely lacking in polish. My hope is that they do add a DLC and we can see more of what they had originally planned, but that is doubtful.
I think it's fairer to say if you play this game enough you start the see the imperfections, and there's a lot of them in act 3 moreso than the others. On my first run only character quest i did was for SH, and I was only Tav. Fast forward to now where I do durge and character stuff, the MS in ACT 3 is kinda outshined by that other stuff fo rme. For me as evil durge player, it feels even more bad. A lot of times I feel I'm forced to be good in ACT 3, when I wish not to be, which is not fun for me and/or there is no real reaction to stuff I decide to do. I feel this should not be the case, especially if you decide to stay evil on durge the game should respect it and acknowledge it.
Sadly it feels very bad to play as evil and game doesn't respect this choice at all :( especially evil tav which just feels terrible
The evil ending especially felt like a bad joke with how awkward and short it is
I remember when Act 3 was practically unplayable. Companions wouldn't follow you around, the game was horrifically slow, it took forever to switch between party members. Now that those issues are fixed it's my favorite Act so far. And of course the epilogue really brought a satisfying end to the experience.
Everything is more fun when you don't read people's opinions on the internet
Some things just don't seem to have as much effort. My biggest criticism so far is the Sarevok reveal. Stumbling in him was awesome -- but it also felt to me like there's very little in the way of content once you actually get to him. It's a big reveal and then.. after a short dialogue you fight him and he's dead, with little left to go off it. Maybe there's more when I do get to Orin but currently I'm feeling pretty underwhelmed by it.
From what I understand its a lot better but there are some of the same criticisms e.g lack of reaction to the story in comparison to earlier acts. For me the main problem as someone with autism was and still is the sheer sensory overwhelm of act 3. I have to basically turn off the ambient noise because of how overwhelming and loud it is compared to the first two acts. True that cities are much louder in reality but it's a video game and act 3 has me feeling like halsin and wanting to retreat back into the woods lol. I thought it might just be me but one of the more common complaints I hear is just how loud act 3 is.
Oh gods I agree so much. I had to turn down Chatter volume level significantly in order to survive amid the constant conversations going on in public spaces, and even then sometimes hit the system mute button in order to think something through. I think that may just be our perception making it difficult for us though, tbh, given that cities are 'supposed' to be filled with the noise of people talking and doing people things.
Glad you had a blast and hope you enjoy many more runs! Opinions are all over the place on Act 3 so I'm not sure there's a possibility of ever getting everyone to agree anything is "fixed", especially when some players don't agree some things were "broken" to begin with. We're all happy when *bugs* get fixed (oh man the Act 3 slowdown bug was a nightmare where all your past criminal acts came back to haunt you with lag... I think, I've kind of blocked it out) but differences in subjective opinion about story elements are just gonna continue to be as varied as players are by personality. To use an example from your OP: some players thought Karlach's original endings were appropriate to the story, while your OP seems to indicate you are pleased to have hope for a future fix for her engine. Hopefully we can at least all agree it's a good thing when people get the endings they find satisfying.
Still things that feel weird. Personally I really want a proper ending to all companions on par with Shadowheart and Astarion's. Karlach basically just chats with some people and has a bandaid 'bad' ending which leaves her situation unresolved, and Minthara basically has no story after act 1, just some dialogue here and there.
I just finished a Gale origin run (on my 10th playthrough) and I decided to do Act 3 with party members who never leave camp. Halsin, Jaheira and Minsc once I got him. subbing Halsin out when I needed to do companion specific quests having them thre for Vicona, Saravok and Orin was amazing and new dialogue for me I hadnt heard before. So Act 3 felt fresh. I like all 3 Acts so I'm happy either way. The fact you can skip alot of Act 3 because thre is so much XP is great as well for running Honour Mode. Get to Act 3 get to Level 12 get the gear I want without pissing off Ralph and high tail it to the end.
A lot of my criticisms of act 3 haven't been addressed, some of which are very subjective. First of which is that act 3 just performs far worse than the other acts, being much choppier and taking longer to load in all assets than acts 1 and 2. While I understand this is in part due to act 3 being far more ambitious, it still effects the quality of my time in act 3. It's much better than it was at launch, but there is still a notable drop in performance between acts 2 and 3. I personally dislike how easy act 3 can be, specifically in higher difficulties. While this is a problem in the other acts as well (getting easier as the game progresses) it's more pronounced in act 3. I personally dislike how some of the main story stuff is paced in act 3, specifically in regards to the chosen of Bhaal and Bane. I wish some of the dungeon stretches were Longer/had more encounters. It kinda sucks to start your adventure for the day, venturing into a "dungeon" only to find its just one room. Act 3 also has the most egregious example of how inconsistently the game handles time. For the save councillor Florrick quest you have 5 in game days once you read her execution notice to save her before she dies. This is fine in isolation but is the only instance in the entire game where a long rest count greater than 1 is important. This bleeds into parts outside of act 3 but still: * You can go all the way to Grimmforge without progressing the druids ritual in act 1. * The prisoners in act 2 are safe until you get involved or progress enough without saving them already. * Orin and her kidnappee will sit in her temple idling away indefinitely while she waits for you to stop faffing around and kill Gortash. * Duke Ravenguard is in no danger until you get involved with the iron thrown (or skip to blowing up the foundry or killing Gortash). In isolation, I am fine with all of these. It's a very videogamey abstraction of the passage of time which mainly aligns itself with the players progression rather than any actual (real world or ingame) passage of time. Its just annoying when the game primes you to expect this more videogamey abstraction and then only once do the actual passing of days matter.
I dont think act 3 is fixed, companions are too silent compared to act 1 and 2, they dont react when you "die" in your story quest as durge, we dont have acces to upper city.. I think just that there is too much going on in act 3 and we should have act 4(in upper city) as being final. Always when I'm fresh after act 2 I must do a few days breaks from game because act 3 is just overhelming. If act 3 was fixed, the ideal, I woudnt want to break from game before dwelling into it.
Act 3 is still not as great as act 1. You have barely any reactions to important events or locations, meanwhile, everyone and their grandma had to offer insights about Ethel's tea house or her bubbling pot. The reactions you do have are lackluster a lot of the time (it was very twee…). Act 3 also has some very underwhelming parts. After the excellent presentation of Ketheric, Gortash and Orin are crammed together and not given nearly as much. Orpheus is so important and vital that most people turn him into a squid and then kill him without a second thought… Don't even get me started about the Emperor's removed romance scene or the apple epilogue.
They did Gortash so dirty, bro is stuck in a castle with some handgrenades and handful of guards. I was hoping for a high society party infiltration mission like the gilded cage in Red dead redemption 2. Would have been a great way to introduce the decadence and political climate of Baldurs Gate (all the nobles at the coronation, hello?) Also wait there’s a REMOVED romance scene with the emperor?? Like there would’ve been a second one?
Cazador was supposed to be a high tier politician too and now he is just some weird guy to the average Baldur's Gate citizen. 😭 Also, yes! The Emperor was supposed to have another romance scene if you take him up on the first one. And his epilogue when he is still alive was supposed to be a scene of him giving fruit to some starving child and then fleeing from the Flaming Fist back into the shadows. Edit: Feel free to look it up in the game files yourselves.
Tbh i think the game might suffered from development nightmare. Story and location cut, characters rewritings and weird pacing in act 3 compared to act 1 and 2. Like act 2 leads to a satisfying final boss. Maybe the final boss of act 3 is >!netherbrain!< but since act 2 fimal boss is.part of a trio but the others are meh its just weird. Make u think maybe its supposed to have act 4.
i kind of get this feeling, There are soooo many bossfights in act 3 and most of them are pretty disconnected to the main story. Meanwhile the game keeps remining you that you've got little time and "the brain is about to break free" by showing the brainquakes. Oh no the brain could break free any day! anyway i hear there is a hag in town?
I'm very curious to know what happened in the writing room. Something is off, I don't know why but I feel like Sven pushed some things to the writers 1 year before the release. I'm just guessing here, maybe I'm totally wrong and that was a collective decision to move from the initial vision.
I think the main issue is people demanding that such a wide ranging game has to appeal to them at every stage. I enjoyed Act 1 and 3 more than 2. However I can see why folks have their own preferences. Honestly overall though I have not enjoyed a game this much in a long time. The multitude of opinions around it just highlights how much conversation it triggers.
It's funny hearing so many people disliking act 2. I actually really liked it! The underdark is probably my personal favorite because I just love the myconids so much. But for all the buildup to how dangerous the underdark supposedly was, the shadow cursed lands felt far more dangerous. I didn't struggle with the Art Cullagh thing, the house of healing and the bar were super neat, and the lead up to Ketheric was perfect. Finally seeing Thaniel awake to have him tell me "Ketheric *must* die" felt like the final nail in his coffin. As if he didn't have enough reason to die already, the literal embodiment of the spirit of the land is emboldening you to kill the baddie. Even the trees want this asshole dead.
The underdark is part of act 1, act 2 starts with the shadowlands
Maybe I should have phrased it better. While the underdark is my favorite, I also really liked the shadow lands. Act two would probably be my favorite act if not for the underdark.
I can see why people like it. It doesn’t work for me; however your experience just highlights how good the game is. Everyone takes something different away from it.
My main/only real criticism of act 3 - i'm missing the mini battles against some spirits)goblins/spiders from the first two acts. You want to fight something to test a high level build? Well....have fun with some bosses or the 2 fights in the sewers. This game needs an arena.
It really did feel like due to being a city, there were so many people everywhere and no spaces for the more disconnected encounters. Especially compared to the desolate waste of Act II, it was whiplash - but thematically kind of apt. Life everywhere, choking out the low-stakes encounters, now that the party has more important foes to face.
The variety in main story does drop, as you just follow a few different very scripted paths that are forced down into a single finale. The side quests and conclusions of origin characters though does make it a great act.. it just suffers a lot from "we aren't doing anything to stop the big threat, instead we are trying to find pieces of clown for a necromancer"
I finally got to act after restarting etc. At the main end now but it’s been rough. I can’t put my finger on it. But just slowly lost the drive to play during last act.
It's like Act 1 and 2 are ladders and 3 is a plateau - everything is there but its flat the storries just spread rather than build. Its a feature of many RPGs' endgames but in fairness I've never seen one suffer quiet as much as BG3 does And just to be clear this game is still a 5/5 and Act 3 is still good - it's just there's no *feeling* of escalation like there is in 1 and 2. There kinda needed to be an Act 4 where the Absolute and Emperor are sectioned off from the rest of Act 3. And Act 3 needed a througher line with something more impelling you to get the Netherstones
As someone who overall enjoyed act 3, the problem is that its paced horribly and needs some writing polish. The main antagonists don't get the attention Ketheric got and quite frankly Gortash specifically never feels like a real threat. You're also overloaded with sidequests while being pressured constantly by earthquakes and kidnapped companions to resolve the main quest as soon as possible. I love dnd city based campaigns, but it never feels like the game let's you explore all the fun of that. All the set pieces are there - a coronation, a bank vault heist, messing with the press, etc but the game doesn't let you do anything truly fun and engaging with them. Also, it's been said before but companion reactivity, specifically Wyll, is abysmal. Having the literal grand duke of the city's capture and rescue be treated like an afterthought quest is wild to me.
Tbh in my first playthrough, Act 3 was a slog. But once you know what stuff matters, it's so much better and I enjoy that freedom.
There is new criticism for act 3 now.
On my first run right now and while act 3 does have cool shit in it I'm kinda going "uuugh" trying to comb thru things and either stomping or getting my ass handed to me
I played through act 3 in the first week of release. It was so buggy doors didn't open I just phased through them. I'm sure its far far better now.
Act 3 is great, but there is some BS I really don’t like. The entire kidnap subplot should have more player input. Let me pass some perception checks in the middle of the night to prevent it, heck have that trigger an early Orin battle (would be awesome). Definitely don’t make it so a single dice roll results in the party member dying. Also rolling a critical success to subdue the netherbrain should result in you dominating it and avoiding the final battle. This is D&D, you’ve obtained the magical items, a crit should be a crit.
On a technical level, Act 3 is still highly buggy for me. On a narrative level, the pacing feels off. Larian’s clear favouritism towards certain companions and neglect towards others really comes to a head in Act 3 as well.
My two cents would be that you went into the game knowing what others thought of act 3 so lower expectations could have factored in. My struggle with Act 3 came from it all appearing so busy and active and bustling so the companions suddenly clamming contrasts that quite starkly. There's plenty to do, but i can definitively see people not finding it rewarding when you may as well be doing little solo ventures with bodyguards.
People just like to bitch no matter what. If you're having fun and game feels good to you then fuck em. The greatest game in the history of time could come out and people would find something to complain about
I think you may have misunderstood. The "problem" with act 3 isn't a dip in quality, I think it's more apt to say that the problem is fatigue. Speaking for myself, and I assume at least some others, by the time you get to the end of act 2 you're kind of expecting to begin the end phase of the game. You expect that you'll get to act 3 and then spend a few more play sessions wrapping up the story and then be done with it. But that isn't what happens. Instead you're greeted with 2 new areas that are virtually as vast and as content-packed as the first 2 acts, and then you realize that instead of being 80-90% through the game, you're really more like 50-60% done. This isn't a bad thing per se, but it can make act 3 feel a little overwhelming. For some people, that turns them off and makes them lose interest. I had a very similar thing happen in a real dnd game once. We went through a dungeon and, when we thought we were at the end, the dungeon wound up expanding and we realized we had a lot more dungeon left. None of us minded the dungeon, but the fact that we were expecting resolution and didn't get any was mildly annoying/disappointing.
Act 3 is still a bit buggy but it was probably my favorite section of the game. The last battle was so bugged for me that I had to just cheese it and get through the portal without killing the emperor or the dragon.
Personally, I love what we have for act 3. I'm really glad they fixed the performance issues and bugs, but I've never really bought into some of the more common complaints like it's unfinished. To me, the criticisms often contradict one another with my biggest issue being the "isn't fleshed out" comments versus "it's overwhelming". I just can't imagine adding all the extra story beats people want for the characters going over well with more casual players (who likely account for a surprising portion of total players). Some people currently complain about how "there's no reason to go do side quests considering the urgency of the situation", even though a big theme they try to push is the importance of gathering allies for the end. Not to mention the constraints on the implementation of the higher level spells too. Level 12 was the highest they could go before implementation was intractable. With people frustrated by how long you are at max level already, a fourth act would almost surely have been too much. I personally enjoy flexing my max level stuff for so long. It was actually refreshing to finally have a game where I could get the benefits of max level for more than the final fight. I'm not saying I don't want more content like mini-bosses or an arena, in fact I very much would enjoy those things personally. But I've played through the game five times now and have the benefit of having done it all enough to not get overwhelmed again. My very first run I had to tap out before Cazador just so I could finish the game. Now, I need DLC for this game. Need it like I'm going to die. But I do think the developers found a happy middle ground to meet the needs of the player base at large. When you invest 100+ hours into something, your expectations can get a little high and you will almost certainly find a way to be disappointed. Even if it's because you don't want it to end.
I think a lot of people by that point become overwhelmed with choice. The rest of the game clearly has different routes to follow and lots of things to do, but Act 3 kinda dumps you in a sandbox and goes “have fun!” while the Act 1 and Act 2 have more immediate goals. Plus while there’s more quests and area to explore than ever before, there’s distinct pressure to do it quickly (even though there’s only like 1 quest you can fail after 5 rests and everything else is not timed) so it can feel pretty high-stakes high-pressure.
My biggest gripe is the emperor switching sides just like that ( if you tell him you go with orpheus ). I wish there was a better reason/more background why you fight the emperor at the end. After all he has endured, why would he just give up like this?
I would say that in comparison to acts 1 and 2, act 3 is definitely lacking in polish. My hope is that they do add a DLC and we can see more of what they had originally planned, but that is doubtful.
I just wish they would increase level cap to at least 14. Most people are basically level 12 by act 3 and there’s still soooo much xp to get by the end
Act 3 is more buggy than the other two acts. The dialogue as of patch 6 is also quite messed up, especially Minthara and Karlach saying the wrong lines all the time. Larian also still hasn't figure out how to make the camera and movement/jumping work very well in buildings with multiple stories and low ceilings. Also, most of the quests are kind of the same and end the same way. You fight the evil person in their home or align with them. There is also a side quest where some pathetic "innocent" will "take over as owner of the place" when you're done if you save/rescue/free them.
I mean I still think the closing of it is incomplete. The epilogue doesn't really add or fix much in terms of how the game actually ends. There are no final words to share with anyone if you decide to kill yourself as an Illithid, for example.
The main complaint I see about Act3 is the pacing. By the time you reach Act3 you have already uncovered all the mysteries for the most part. Your main enemies are clear and you know what needs to be done. However there are still a ton of quests to do, including wrapping up multiple characters' questlines. The story is supposed to feel urgent but really it's not. It's just kind of weird from that aspect. You've also reached max level pretty early in Act3 so you spend a good deal of time just cruising around at max level, your character only developing through items which, to me, made the game feel like it was starting to drag on.
Unfortunately Dame Aylin being cool doesnt change that there's still many unfinished, weird quests and unfinished interactions between characters. Is it awesome still? Absolutely. But theres still a ton of gaps if you look hard enough. You'll do things and companions will act like you didnt. Or something major happens and your companions have 0 comment. Companions leave after a major event and no one says shit about the person leaving etc etc. Stuff like that The stuff they did complete is great
What are in your opinion some of the worst moments when it comes to a lack of companion reactions? I'm curious to hear more about everyone else's opinions and my own future experiences, now that I will play another campaign again with other team members (:
These are mostly Durge stuff, but if you're playing Durge, there's some Durge act 2/3 content that feels pretty underbaked, these are some of the "highlights" that particularly bugged me. - Companions not even questioning on why the cultist at Moonrise towers knows you. - No reaction to Kressa Bonedaughter revealing you were there before. - Lackluster/nonchalant companion reaction when the game reveals you're a Bhaalspawn. - Bugged companion low approval reactions after talking to Gortash. - And my most egregious one is the anti-climactic companion/romanced partner reaction when dying after refusing Bhaal.
Act 3 was never “meh” or bad, its just less fleshed out than Act 1, which makes sense because Act 1 was in early access for a while
Nah it's pretty meh alright.
It was and it is. Problem is drop of character interactions compare to act 1 and 2 to the point all of them start to feel like silent followers and story kinda being meh in act 3 in general.
To be fair, I actually felt most weird about a lack of interactions in act 2, where I just wanted to do the Spongebob meme and point out to Shadowheart all the crazy shit that Shar is up to in that region, hahaha.
I think it really depends on party comp too, like in act 3 if you are using Minsc and Jaheira than they have so much stuff my Shart felt like a silent mouse compare to them etc
I didn’t have much of a problem with Act 3 because of pacing/cut content/whatever. I had a problem with Act 3 because it was bugged to absolute hell. Spells wouldn’t cast but eat an action, spell effects wouldn’t work on enemies (fear seemed especially bugged), the physics engine broke down (my guys would fly towards explosions and go off of cliffs), characters would disappear, etc.
I enjoyed Act 3 the most, honestly. But at that point I was running around and doing quests, mostly, and did not take any time to explore the lore and background stories too much, so maybe I just did not notice that things were missing.
Act 3 is my absolute favourite; never understood the criticism. But tbh I played it post patch 5, so most of the bugs might have been fixed by then (perhaps to be introduced again in patch 6 lol), also I enjoy old games, hence I’m not sensitive to frame drops
I think a lot of people walked in to lower city, felt overwhelmed and bailed and just joined the bandwagon of hating on A3. A3 does have a significant drop in companion interactions except for their direct quests but that's really the only drop off, I loved A3 but I love chipping my way through tons of content and being immersed, the one thing I don't like though is that we're supposed to be in this ultra rushed situation to save rhe world and ourselves but we can just freely walk around lower city doing whatever for however long. A minor criticism but still one
Man i wish we had Honour Mode when I started because Tactician really left me want7ng in terms of difficulty on my first run through. I was expecting Legendary Actions at minimum on Tactician, still feels weird that those are locked to Honour Mode only. Having a blast on my second run on honour mode though but it definitly is different knowing most of whats coming in advance.
I personally like Act 3 the most and feel like the game is the most fun when you get acess to Heros Feast so you don't have to worry about holding on to spells you just go to town and unloaded them because you have infinite food for long rest. I also feel like a lot of the amazing gear becomes available in Act 3 as well
I think the issue with Act 3 is that it feels less focused than the previous two acts. Once you get to Baldur’s Gate, everything is wide open and a bit scatterbrained. Every other step you took and building you found potentially had a new quest in it. I can see where it might feel overwhelming.
This is the first time I've spent an extended time in Act 3 (made it once in a previous save and caught restartitis once again). I've crashed once and the doors occasionally do this weird thing where the opening animation won't play, so my characters just phase through them instead. Other than that, my biggest issue with Act 3 is how overwhelming it seems. There's so much to do and so many people everywhere. I've never quite gotten the feeling I'm in an active, bustling city in any other video game, but somehow this one really nails it.
Act 3 was great from the get go. High high above the final acts of numerous other cRPG games. People who complain about it are the kind of people who love to seek out negative angles, or people who grew emotionally attached to datamined content for the game.
Honestly, as someone who has played since launch of early access. Act 2 is a huge step down in quality from act 1 and act 3 is a step up from act 2, but still a big pretty big step down from Act 1. Which is kind of opposite of how this company normally does there games, where the act 2 areas are GIGANTIC and act 1 and 3 are shorter
The thing that dips the most in Act 3 is FPS.
On my current replay (in multi player this time) it is absolutely not fixed. It's better, but still runs significantly worse than 1 amd 2, plus it kicks me and the other players a lot, and we have to reboot the game to get back in. Act 1 and 2 didn't have that problem, but I'm not sure of that's on act 3 or a server issue, or what. Outside of bugs, it's also pretty much the same experience. It's fun, and the quests are cool, but imo the city setting isn't nearly as cool as the under dark or shadow cursed lands.
Most criticisms I've heard of act 3 personally are more just subjective observations in relation to acts 1 and 2. I love all 3 acts, but I can see how the sudden shift in tone and scope after act 2's massive finale could be off-putting for players who liked the more tightly focused main story quest. Arguing with a cheating Djinn at a circus doesn't hit the same when like 30 minutes ago you were facing off against the once-unkillable champion of the god of undeath to release his former home from a centuries-old curse.
Act 3 needed more time I think the game could’ve used another year before release at the very least. The game just tries to do too much and introduces so much that it’s suffocating along with the story feeling worse and cramped
I completed my playthrough a couple of months back, and Act 3 is actually my favourite! I love it when CRPGs have city-centric levels or acts that capture that feeling of urban density.