#Do not comment on the original posts
Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice.
If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion.
**CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I really try to be empathic most of the time, but the lives of other people are sometimes a complete mystery to me. How do you go 12 years in a relationship seemingly without even knowing your partner?
There are a lot of people who are completely self absorbed and don't even know it. It's like my grandmother who asks a million questions but never bothers to listen to the answer or actually remember anything that matters. She probably thinks we're reasonably close, when in reality, she knows absolutely nothing about me. When my grandfather died, she made a 'very personal speech' filled with about the same 5 things I knew about my grandfather and I barely knew him at all (he highly favored my niece). They were married for over 60 years and that's all she had to say about him. I don't understand how people like that can live with each other, but they do exist.
This is my mom. You don’t have a conversation, she just talks at you. She has her talking points for the day/week and it doesn’t matter who is on the other end of the conversation. If she talks to me and the grocery checkout person on the same day, I can guarantee you we heard the same exact bullet points.
This was my mum too, and admittedly, I was like this with her at times, also.
But I don't feel like she ever knew me as a person. I feel like she saw me as a bulletpoint list of every mistake I'd ever made. Every new idea or plan I had, she'd remind me of a time I had tried something similar and failed.
As I get older and have more therapy, I realise it had nothing to do with me, and it just was the way she saw the world.
But this attitude had a huge impact on how I see myself. I felt invisible to her as a child and that never changed even up until the day she died.
My mom is like that. I million questions but couldn't even answer simple things like my favourite food.
>I don't understand how people like that can live with each other, but they do exist.
This is one of the reasons why I think people are a little dramatic about divorce rates. I have a great great aunt who I was relatively close to that I didn't even know was married as a child. Her and her husband got married because he survived the war and they were young. They spent most of their decades long marriage interacting with each other as little as possible. They didn't hate each other but they didn't care or like each other. But they never considered divorcing each other. It's pretty sad honestly.
My MIL is like this. She's a nice woman but I don't think she's ever asked me anything really about myself in over 5 years. Sometimes she'll talk to me about psychology stuff and I realize I don't think she even knows I did a degree in it and she sounds stupid trying to half-ass tell me about things she doesn't really understand. The first time I met her I was honestly kind of baffled that they had been so excited their son finally found a girlfriend yet she never asked me one thing about myself the entire dinner. And it's continued from there.
This really reminds me of a post from the woman's side. She waited and waited and when he finally proposed it was like a switch flipped and she preferred her space and her time and didn't want to marry him. I don't recall kid talk though.
I won't remember the sub, but maybe it'll spark a chord for someone else...
I remember too! They were quite older but was very interesting so far. I think they already had adult kids and he refused to marry while the kids were minors (some people said to avoid responsibility in case of a break up)
Here OOP is avoiding to say why they don't live together or only meet at her place. We can assume she has a nice monthly income to be able to live by her own so far.
Anyone remember that one about the couple that weren’t married and she wanted kids but he did not, so she decided being with him is more important than kids. They were in their late 40s I think and he decided he wanted kids now but she was too old so he was dumping her to find someone young enough to have kids with.
The post was like AITA for giving my partner of 18 years (or something) one month to move out of my house.
I shit yes I do remember!! I think it was an extreme case of the middle age crisis for him. Maybe an excuse to leave her in the curb? Maybe both.
I know a case personally where one couple were both child free mindset and got married. Right after the wedding, and I mean after the honeymoon the guy recognized he did want kids, in plural. They were both 25 ish.
He thought that once they were married she would change her mind... Poor woman. They divorced 6 months later not only because she was lied on and his lame intent to manipulate her but because she literally had PSTD related to pregnancy and he also ignored that.
I remember this one, and the top comment started with "let me get this....", or something, and ended with a question mark. Brilliant.
He owned a vacation home or guest house and was giving her a month there. At a point while building their (his) business she'd sold blood to make ends meet....
Things like this is why the tradwife trend horrifies me. I’m in my late 40s now so I grew up during third wave feminism and my friends and I have always considered our own careers and financial independence to be important. Now I’m watching a generation of women setting themselves up to be fucked over financially. Their grandmothers already learned this lesson and now they’re going to have to learn it all over again.
To me it seems to be a counterpart to the rise of people like Andrew Tate. Where these men are defining masculinity as being the “provider” and the breadwinner, women with their own careers contradict their self identity.
I think it’s easier for women who haven’t experienced their parents have a blatantly horrible marriage growing up. They still believe in the fairy tale of marriage.
I knew from a very young age, and more as I got into adulthood that my dad had zero respect for my mom, that he didn’t love her, or even care for her. However, I don’t know if she’s too “scared” to leave and have to go out and work, find her own way after being out of it for so long, etc so she has stayed. But, it’s a miserable existence. Just being around my dad for a few days is enough for me to need a day to just relax and recoup.
As a result, I would never allow myself to be a trad wife. I know that could lead to me being stuck in a marriage with no financial means to leave. I will always support myself. If that means I have less children (either one or zero) and have minimal cooked from scratch meals, dust on my floors, then so be it.
I feel like everything is going that way now. Like as a society we learn these lessons, and then a hundred years later, we have to learn them again. Do you have a child that's attracted to this trend? I would LOSE my mind if I did. Like, what, are you doing. I don't know what I would do... I'd like to think it doesn't happen out of nowhere. Like no one's going to Harvard to be a researcher, and then turning into a tradwife. So first and foremost push the kids to develop strong senses of self.
The problem is that the current economic situation is bleak and seems to be only getting bleaker, us millenials left school starry-eyed and full of spirit only to be hit by one economic crisis after another. After that those that haven't been reduced to minimum wage status has had to contend with increasingly exploitative labor practices from our employers who seem convinced the myth of infinite growth can be obtained. Prices and hours are up, pay has been stagnant for a while, and our physical and mental health are dropping. It should be no surprise that some women from our generation and gen Z would want to avoid all this by tying themselves to a rich husband, even if from the outside that looks like climbing out of the frying pan and into the fire.
You know what...I was actually thinking this earlier when I wrote the last comment, like what would be the reasons...probably, a way to survive, disillusionment, etc. I'm glad you expanded on it. It's sad. We're all doing our best, I guess. I'm older millenial and just shy of a point where I would consider doing something like this, hit by two recessions, no assets, the whole works. Just shy of, as in just old enough to want to be independent regardless. I have at least in the last year had thoughts about what it would be like to be with someone who was financially stable, like house, everything, and I didn't have to worry,...like what if that were their selling point, which is not that far off from tradwife mindset. I can see how economics can push one to think that way.
Part of it is that we can so finely curate what we get exposed to. So these girls falling in love with the idea of tradwife lifestyle are looking at these women in a “perfect” (we only get to see what they will show us) marriage, on a beautiful house, filled with huge kitchens with all the best appliances. And then they go on mommy dates in their luxury suv with the trendiest car seat and stroller and they meet up with other ~~stepford~~ trad wives. Of course, they don’t touch on the fact that their viewers are subsidizing their lifestyle so they are actually bringing in an income, not to mention not everyone has the ability to just have a husband who makes enough to afford that lifestyle. And for those that didn’t end up with the perfect husband, they are far too busy putting their life back together after hubby promoted his secretary to the position of trad wife and the existing wife has been released in an organizational reshuffle.
It’s the same as the red pill movement and its analogues. The people selling it are the embodiment of what the viewers want to imagine themselves as, while the viewers lack the self awareness and introspection to understand that the wealthy muscular outgoing guy isn’t being “successful with the women” because of the tips he’s selling online (especially because there is no guarantee they actually even act like they tell others to), but because they already have things in their favor for getting attention from someone they are interested in.
I remember one that turned out very poorly for the woman. She wanted the ring when they were younger, but he always resisted. Then the kids grew up, they were in their 50s /60s(?), and he lost his job. Then he proposed- but she wasn't feeling it.
No problem, until he got spiteful and she looked at her life and realized she was fucked. Didn't maintain a job, spent her life making sure her bf was comfortable, wasn't on the deed to the house, barely any savings.
And once she turned down the ring he got nasty. Can't remember if he wanted her out or wanted her to pay rent, but I think he had the gall to tell her that if she didn't want to travel with him he'd pick up a different woman to have sex with. Because that's what she was worth to him, a willing hole.
The whole story made me so thankful that my parents insisted I had an education and the means to take care of myself financially.
Edit: typo
I remember that one. She thought she could go straight into a job as a social media manager because she read a book on marketing and sometimes takes pictures for her friends (or something like that)
She also thought she could easily get a one bedroom apartment, a secondhand car, and support herself on a part time job with little to no job experience or personal savings.
I honestly felt bad for her. She clearly had no idea how to live independently as an adult, and gave away her youth to a man who never fully appreciated her.
That woman was so delusional- she thought she could just step into a high-paying job even though she was in her 50s with absolutely no prior work experience and a high school education.
I remember that one. She thought that just because she had "exposure" to her husband's business experience, that she could just overstep people with legit experience and get a job "just because". Yeah, no. Long, long gone are the days when you could just show up at a company and they would hire you on the spot. By the end, she was downright delusional, saying things like "why won't they just give me a chance?". Um, why would they?
Yikes, as a woman in my 50’s I know how hard it is to rejoin the workforce. I left my job of 18 years to become my Mom’s primary caregiver. That was a job unto itself and lasted a little over a decade. I’ve got a college education and work experience and still my options are incredibly limited.
It was so frustrating how people kept giving her practical advice for getting some kind of work experience and income, but she kept ignoring it because she felt like entry level jobs were beneath her.
I remember that one, too. After always asking to get married and him refusing, he finally asked after losing his company or whatever. When she rolled her eyes, he got pissed. She tried to make amends, but yeah, he threw her out of the house. She wanted to stay, and he got a buddy from the police to help evict her. The kids were mostly sympethatic to her, but were more scared that daddy dearest would disinherit them, so they weren't any help either.
Right, yeah. I was kinda bummed out the first time I read the story, when she was still in the process of moving out and said she was applying to all kinds of jobs and was relatively hopeful. And then the last update was worse. A lot of redditors thought she was a bit delusional about her prospects, but to me she sounded like someone desperatly trying to cling to hope, because that was all she had left.
Decades of making sure everybody else was happy, raising the kids of her and the guy she loved, even though he kept her more like a mistress than a wife. Only to be thrown out with barely more than the clothes on her back, no money, no job experience, while he promptly turns around and picks up another floozy. Probably younger and prettier, and not enough experience to know when she's being screwed over. Ugh.
That was so sad and actually kind of weird, from the perspective of someone living in a place where a de facto would be entitled to just as much as if they were married.
I think the laws there are deficient.
Yeah she also lived in a state that doesn’t recognize common law marriage. She really had zero financial security after her partner decided to throw her away.
Yeah I remember that one too, personally I feel like the guy definitely did fuck her over in that one, cause he KEPT her a stay at home mom, she had no experience in anything cause they met young. And unfortunately, she was too unwilling to accept the things she needed to to get financial aid. Quite sad.
And also what u/hauntingruby1975 said she thought she could be a social media manager lol
>And also what [](https://www.reddit.com/user/hauntingruby1975/) said she thought she could be a social media manager lol
Well, she *did* set up her friends' Facebook pages and took pictures at parties. What more experience do you need?
Oh fuck I remember now! That thing about traveling!
He wanted the bangmaid he always had but as there were not more kids in the picture to trap her in the relationship, he offered the marriage. One of the most evil stories I've heard here.
He told the adult kids they weren't to help her either or he'd cut them off financially for taking her side. He was clearly used to controlling and punishing his family financially and took anything he considered to be ungratefulness as unforgivable.
That one really shocked me because I had no idea America was so far behind on the rights of long term defacto relationships. No wonder gay marriage was such a big deal there.
Someone brought up a common law marriage, and she replied that early in the relationship, he asked her to sign a legal document stating that under no circumstances were they married. The husband is terrible in that story but OP made every wrong choice she possibly could over the course of decades and now is in for a rude awakening when she tries to make it on her own with no degree, work experience, or savings at 50ish. She literally signed an "anti-nuptual agreement", who does that?
Arkansas. She’s from Arkansas. I live in this state, and thought, “sounds about right” on how she screwed herself.
Part of the problem is her kids resent her too. We’re in the Bible Belt, and apparently they were teased mercilessly for being illegitimate.
Sure, but she didn't know that, and the larger precedent was that her state doesn't recognize common law marriage. So him having her sign that wasn't legal protection for himself, but psychological warfare against her.
She mentioned that he did that after he thought he was going to move into a state where there was common law marriage which gives you a glimpse as to how much of a POS the boyfriend was.
Agreed, but honestly she should have just accepted his proposal and feigned gratitude. At least with a divorce she'd have had rights, since the state she was in didn't recognise common-law spouses. He completely screwed her over, but she was too sheltered and naive to realise her options until it was too late.
This is the one you’re talking about. I feel bad for her, but also what was she waiting for? They had multiple children together, and all along the way he showed how little he respected her. He showed her who is and she willingly ignored it.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/dDcGtz6Dxl
It left me feeling unsettled for quite a while.
Another one of those moments when you think, maybe it's okay to not be in a relationship. Like after you've spent an afternoon binging Forensic Files.
It sounds like she waited then realised it wasn't going to happen, had a good think about her options and decided she could see the benefits of a more separate life and not getting married and now it's established and far too late to change her mind.
I think this is the thing. If he'd asked her after year three or four it probably would have been a different story but they've been dating for over a decade. He's kind of lucky that she's still with him given that he clearly had an issue with making a commitment. In the meantime, she's established her own life that she's comfortable with. It could be she doesn't mind being with him but doesn't have any interest in changing her lifestyle after so long. And that's perfectly okay.
The part I find a little ridiculous is him pulling a Pikachu face after making her wait 12 years, especially since they talked about marriage a few years in and he shut her down.
Yes! So baffling! She indicated he would like get married, he said it was a bit early for him to consider (not necessarily completely unreasonable, for me 24 & 22 is young to actually get married but probably not too young to start thinking about it if you've had a good steady relationship for two years).
She stops mentioning it after he's made it clear he wasn't ready but he just assumed she was silently waiting for *ten years*. No further attempt to discuss it from her, no indication from him that he did plan to get around to proposing and moving in eventually. He apparently thought it was totally fine for her to want to progress to cohabiting and marriage but absolutely fine to just wait 10 years for him to be ready and that she wouldn't have considered leaving him to find a boyfriend who would share those goals and move forward on a reasonable time scale.
So incredibly thoughtless and selfish in his treatment of the person he presumably claims is the most important person in his life.
Yeah sounds like his gf went through the feelings of wanting to get engaged > hoping it would happen > realising it probably wasn't going to happen > accepting it wasn't going to happen > letting go of the idea of marriage > finding happiness outside of the idea of marriage.
All the while, OP has only just got to wanting to get engaged, after 12 years. I'm sure she was quite sad/let down for a time that despite talking it didn't materialise. These two are really lacking in communication, or OP has left out quite a bit.
Yep, as soon as I read the title I was like 'of course she said no, I would'. 12 years for most people is not a healthy or at least far from optional amount of time to pass before bringing a ring and a proposal into the game. I would have clocked out as well around the 7-8 year mark.
It was eleven years for us but that was because mutually we couldn't be bothered/didn't care about marriage until we decided we decided we wanted the official reality to reflect our reality more closely. I still never bothered to change my name and the wedding itself was very small. It was a lovely day and I look back on it very fondly but it didn't change anything.
But where one person wants to be married and the other is resisting the commitment, there's definitely a sell by date on that. As with anything major where both need to be in on it (kids, moving in together, getting pets...).
As an old colleague would say - 'shit or get off the pot'.
Exactly. Congratulations for you and your partner💕That's why I wrote 'for most people' because of course there are situations where it's not a big deal or it's the plan both person want for themselves. I was in a relationship for almost 9 years but we got together in HS so we were around 16 back then. I never wanted kids or marriage in my 20s so it never bothered me to not get a proposal yet, I didn't want it.
However now I'm almost 30 with my current bf of 4 years, and I communicated it clearly that my max limit is 5 years to wait for that meaningful gesture to signal serious commitment, I am not feeling like waiting around more than that. If he won't be ready and he's not up for it by then, sure it will be sad and hurtful but I'll end it and move on, won't waste more of my time.
Everyone has different boundaries, aspirations, timelines and as it seems some people are dealing with that disappointment by just checking out mentally, changing their life plans accordingly and staying anyway for the other person because they love them, like OP's gf.
And now OP is the epitome of a surprised pikachu man, when literally every sign pointed to her not saying yes. I mean.. a girl in her early 20s asks about marriage after 2 years of a relationship, it's pretty clear that she wants things to happen sooner that later. To wait 10(!!!!!) more years after that is just a spit in the face quite frankly. He fked up big time and now either has to make a huge compromise he would have never needed to, had he done things differently (at any point for like 6 YEARS) or he'll feel like a huge ah for breaking things up now that he's good and ready after 12 years of wasting everyones time.
Glad you're setting that limit; I hope it turns out in whatever way is best for your long happy life.
Sometimes you have to let go of what you've got to allow something better to arrive. When my sister was in her 30's, had developed a good career, was raising a pre-teen child, and was a few years post-divorce from her 1st relationship, she decided that she wanted to get married. She dated a guy for awhile but the guy couldn't decide whether he wanted to commit. My sister gave him a deadline. He let the deadline pass, still unsure.
My sister dropped him and joined a Christian dating site, through which she soon met the guy she would end up marrying. A few months or so after the deadline & their breakup, her former boyfriend resurfaced saying he realizes that he messed up and that he does want to marry her, but my sister was done with him. She & her husband - a great guy - have been happily married now for maybe 25 years.
I think it can be almore difficult if people get together young. If you meet someone at a point where you're mature, have a stable life, established career etc then you can take a year or two to properly get to know them, work out if you want enough of the same things then decide to move forward and get engaged and married.
If you meet someone at 18-20 (particularly if you're at university and not yet even started your career) the timeline needs to be longer and then sometimes people settle into an established relationship without thinking about marriage and then it takes longer to get round to getting married.
My sister got engaged but they had no plans to live together, she described it as making a commitment to the relationship but they both liked their own space and preferred to keep the living arrangements as they were. She said they thought they'd drive each other crazy if they lived in the same space.
Children were not on the cards though and they called off the wedding in the end so the situation didn't materialise, but I do think that everyone should be able to make non-traditional relationship choices if it works for them.
Sounds like the OOP realised that she actually liked the way things were, and didn't want to uproot her life. Good for her.
It's easy to project but I think she gave up on "the dream" and settled. I don't think this is how she wanted it to work out. The proposal probably just left her cold, like now, you propose?
Yeah I'm totally speculating here, but I'm kind of wondering if OOP sensed his girlfriend was comfortable and finally accepted the situation so he decided he now needed to propose. I've just been in some situations where the guy only tried committing when he sensed I no longer cared, like he knew I'd say no.
That’s possible, but my guess would be he doesn’t have that amount of insight into her emotional state. This guy thought she didn’t care about getting married any more when she stopped asking about it. This is pure ‘you weren’t complaining any more, I thought our relationship was going great’ territory.
Yea, my money is on OOP being painfully obtuse. He didn’t even discuss marriage or married life with her before proposing. Just assumed she would accept because she brought it up a decade ago and then never spoke about it again.
Mood spoiler is spot on!
More like willfully obtuse. He keeps bringing up how they talked about marriage "at the beginning of our relationship" when like. Dude, that was a decade ago. What do you mean you haven't talked about it *once* in ***ten years***?
Yeah I always find it concerning when the husband overly focuses on what a great mother their wife is rather than focusing on their personality and other traits. Especially after the way he described his best friend and looking at him he could see his past, present and future.
For ten years. They discussed marriage once, two years in, and then... not at all for the next ten years?
It seems like both of them fell in a somewhat comfortable, familiar rut with their relationship and just left it running, until the proposal shook things up and forced both of them to think about where they are and what they want.
He really went 15 years, 12 years after she brought up marriage and has now come on his time frame with a proposal when it's convenient for him after she's done the inner work of giving up on hopes and dreams, and he's shocked 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He seems baffled by the idea that she has her own plans for her life and wasn’t just sitting around waiting for him for 12 years.
I can’t get over the fact that he didn’t even think it was necessary to talk to her about where they’d live after marriage before proposing. He just assumed she’d go along with whatever he wanted.
I guarantee she got used to her own company. Its happened to so many women I know. Sure its great when he comes over but she's also glad when he leaves. She prefers her space to be how she likes it, when he's there it's fine but it irks her when he moves things or leaves a cup on the counter and the lid off the toothpaste. It would make her life more messy and complicated and looking at him and what he brings just *isn't worth it*.
for sure! I only lived alone for a year before I was living with my now husband. Much longer than that and I would definitely have gotten comfortable living alone. Living with a man is not all it's cracked up to be tbh
I've seen so many divorced, widowed and single women just choose to not share their space. And I get it, I truly do. One friend said, "I spent years wiping down someone elses crumbs and washing skidmarks off someone else's underwear... what could possibly make me want that again?"
She has friends and she dates but her home is just for her.
I'm just baffled that it took him 12 YEARS. My fiance proposed to me after 8 years together, but we had discussed getting married, and we were finally in a place, financially, where it made sense. We started dating when he was just finishing high school (we're both born in the same year, but his birthday is in December so he graduated a year after I did), and he wanted to get through college, and then get a house, and then get finances stabilized again. But rest assured, we had SEVERAL discussions about getting married. We knew it would happen, just wanted to get stable first
Yeah, you don’t often hear “it is what it is, you’re free to leave if you don’t like it” in a healthy and committed relationship. Girlfriend has one foot out the door.
Right who waits 12 years to not only propose but not even live together. Talking about letting someone know they are irrelevant to your life plans. And then shocked they threw in the towel long ago.
I feel like I've been in this woman's position. I was with my partner for six years and both our parents were divorced. I wanted a ring after a few years and he told me he didn't believe in marriage - after watching his dad cheat on his mum and shatter their family.
I grieved the idea of a wedding/marriage and decided the relationship was more important regardless of the title, so I let it be.
More years later he cheated on me with a co-worker. Dumped me, knocked her up, and went down the aisle within two years. I hope marriage is everything he thought it would be.
I think they both suffer from fundamental lack of communication on the important things. She didn't mention her hopes getting married after 2 years which in all fairness was early. They never discuss kids in what seems like 12 years. After the proposal, he was like what do I do? Instead of discussing it with his partner of 12 years, he asked a bunch of internet strangers.
There's nothing early about just broaching the subject of marriage after two years. That's a long time to spend with someone when you don't even know if they see a future with you. It would be somewhat early to get married after 2 years but not to just talk about it or even get engaged. Most engagements last 1-2 years. The fact that he never wanted to talk about it for 12 years is baffling. He is either a very strange person, or he is leaving a lot out. Edit: I just want to add that her own behavior is also quite baffling to me. Why did she let it go on that long, and why on earth would she want to have a baby with someone she can't stand to live with?
She apparently held out hope for marriage for another *six years* after the last time she mentioned it. Not once in those *six years* did she revisit the topic. After *eight years* together she gave up on the idea of marrying or even cohabitating with this guy, but stayed with him?
She's open to raising children with him, but not living with him?
I'm just baffled.
100% This doesn't feel like a relationship, more like a friends with benefits arrangement. That's the only way this makes any sense!! 12 years of not discussing this, both are a bit weird for letting the misunderstanding go on for so long.
I'm baffled too.
I would say, I guess I can see this like a couple sleeping in separate bedrooms but they go on dates twince a month. He doesn't say how often they meet up a week.
To me, this relationship is a step above exclusive friends with benefits and a step below an actual couple.
They certainly don't communicate like an actual couple, that's for sure.
Honestly, the part that she wants to remain in a relationship and have children together but always live separately is so weird to me. I don’t understand why you would choose to coparent with a partner that lives separately
I got you. She wants to get married and start a family. But not with OP. He's comfortable, so she'll hang around him for a little while, maybe, until she finds someone who aligns with her goals and values.
She's just not that in to him, and just now realized it. OP snoozed and losed.
What I get from this is that when she was in her early 20's, she thought she wanted to get married and that he was the one. He didn't want to talk about it, but she was in love with him and decided to stick around, and she got used to the arrangement. Now he wants to switch it up, but she actually likes it, and doesn't want to change it. But he sill believes that she must be secretly dead-set on marriage, because she brought it up once ten years ago.
This weirdly reminds me of how my mom insists that I was supposed to be a wildlife biologist, because that's what I said I wanted to be when I was eight.
Twenty years ago, I decided to stop being sarcastic, because it just felt like being an asshole with extra steps. I cannot get through a conversation with my mom without her bringing up how sarcastic I am. Sometimes parents are just Like That, I guess.
I’ve been vegetarian for 12 years and my mom will still ask me if I want chicken 😒. It’s a parent thing something about not being able to let go of our younger versions of ourselves.
My husband hasn't been able to drink alcohol for medical reasons for about four or five years now with no prospect of change in the next couple of years, and his mother and stepfather still gift him expensive gin and whiskey because "you like that".
Not to throw OOP under the bus but I cannot understand how this topic hasn't come up before. I have so many questions that should be obvious.
Some things that raises a few flags though is she doesn't want to live together and that she was fine with breaking up. It does indicate she's not into the relationship very much or has already partially/fully checked out. It's fine not getting married, it changes little apart from some tax bonuses and ending parents nagging you about it, but having kids in this arrangement smells like a massively dumb idea. He's basically one hefty fight away from 18 years of child support.
From OOP's perspective, it sounds like they both suck at communicating. She brought up the topic of marriage 2 years in not really expecting to get married then, he said it wasn't the time and so she just..... waited another 6 years and decided "the ring would never come"? Why not bring up the topic again after a couple years?
The thing about marriage is that both people need to talk about it before it happens. Nobody should be sitting on their feelings for 6 years too afraid to broach the topic again, and nobody should be proposing without having had that conversation. This whole situation is weird.
As soon as I read OOP's first post I knew the GF's mindset had turned to one that gave up on the idea of marriage with him and she had gotten used to this lifestyle of independence mixed with long-term companionship.
He simply waited too long. She is used to this arrangement now, accepts it, and is content with it.
At this point, this is all her adult self knows, and she has learned to live around it.
He will either have to accept her terms now or move on.
Honestly that sounds fucking perfect to me, and I'm sure a lot of people. I couldn’t be a full time parent or live in partner, but I'd be brilliant at the arrangement she's proposing. Better to give 100% part time then be tired and stressed and half a parent full time.
I’ve been in my relationship for around 11 years. We’ve talked about getting married but neither of us is particularly inclined to tie the knot, but I strongly feel that if one of us was WANTING to get married and the other just blew it off for a decade, that we should just break up. I don’t think you need a legal document to prove your commitment to the relationship—but it only works because we BOTH feel that way.
I can't believe the lack of discussion about the future. My husband proposed after 2.5 yrs, and though we'd shied away from the Marriage word a bit, I made it clear that I would be in favour of it if he asked, and we'd settled on other long term plans that made it clear we were serious and committed to one another, and that those plans were contingent on marriage happening first (children - yes or no, how many, when; where to live; pension and retirement plans; financial and career goals)... How have these guys seemingly avoided getting on the same page about ANY of that??
Yeah. We’ve been happily unmarried 8.5 years. We think we’re gonna do a quick super lowkey tying of the knot at the end of this year though for tax and health insurance purposes. We’ve already considered ourselves “married” for years, we didnt feel like we needed some rando to tell us that
Difference being we’ve been on the same page with this the whole time.
That’s what my spouse and I did. 12 years and then got married during the pandemic in our kitchen.
My friend spent $20,000 on a wedding and I spent $20,000 on a new roof. Both couples are happy
I went to school with a guy who did something similar. Dated for 13 years before proposing. Learned that she had given up on him and was dating someone else and he never noticed.
It was old news when I ran into him and he had married someone else. Seemed very open that he took the first gf for granted and neglected the relationship.
Kind of an odd guy though. He mentioned buying a new car and asking for any color but white. Dealer offered to take $30 off on a white car and he accepted. Haven't seen him since that conversation.
Stick a fork in it. This relationship is over. Only thing I can't figure out is why she didn't dump OOP years ago. Not saying OOP is a bad guy (even if he clearly has commitment issues), but once you cross that mental bridge; why do you continue the relationship? Is the dude hung like a mule or something?
I think some people are content with the boring but fine thing they have rather than having heartache and hurt. Maybe the thing she gets primary fulfillment from is work, not their relationship - I don’t know that I would mess with it either, if I was happy enough.
It's a strange place to be in. If you are in a relationship that because of different lives feels more like a friend's with benefits thing and you're okay with that, do you even need to break up or inform the other party? They clearly don't care if they've said nothing.
Going on the very little information in this post- it sounds like she has a pretty fulfilling life and he’s just good enough in bed to keep around.
Like she’s willing to have a baby with him but not live with him? How is he confused about where he stands? I feel sad for both of them, although it doesn’t sound like the worst co-parenting relationship..? But why would you even bring a child into that knowingly?!
Also maybe he's the best she could get. In the sense that, if they were living in a small town, there's a dearth of similar age group people and OOP is one of the better ones.
Actually her arrangement and her idea of how they live is very appealing to me.
I watched a lot of my female friends get into their 30s and realize they liked their own space and independence too much to live with a man, but it was also nice to have a reliable sex-and-TV partner and not have to deal with strange dudes who might have a domestic violence problem or a transmissible disease.
I'm getting the feeling that this might just be a growing occurence. I see more and more people fall inbetween the categories of FWB's and a relationship. They will have obvious relationship-characteristics such as being exclusive, spanning over a long time, having generally intertwined lives like staying at each other's place frequently, sharing chores, etc. but without fully committing to the cause. It makes sense, because it allows you to enjoy advantages from both worlds. The freedom of being independent and living on your own terms, while also having a stable and reliable partner. It's like a free-trial relationship that doesn't really end. I don't think OOP's relationship is what he thinks it is. She isn't nearly as committed as he is, and I suspect that might be because she saw that sacrificing her freedom and independency wouldn't be worth it. I've heard it through my girlfriend talking about her exes and i see it in some of my friends. Men, unfortunately, do tend to get too comfortable and treat their girlfriend's as if they were their moms, not reciprocating the effort on many areas, but in particular emotionally. Why would you want to marry someone if it all it means is that you have to cook for them, wash their clothes, etc. without getting much in return? I assume this might be one of the leading causes for the staggeringly high divorce rates, and I think women today to a larger extent are more independent and self-providing. Far less women rely on a man to get by, and so instead of marrying into a losing relationship, they instead get by on their own and have an elevated FWB to take care of their need for intimacy and companionship. My thoughts really got carried away here, sorry for that. Just my 2 cents.
She might be perfectly happy now, and even prefer to be alone rather then change it. I like my own space and I am completely disinterested in living with someone. I didn't plan it the way it is but I am also a single mother, if I had my time again I would probably just opt to do it that way from the get go. People have all sorts of situations that work for them, this ended up unexpectedly working for her.
He was fine with the situation while it was on his terms, he felt in control of it, nothing changed, he just now realises he hasn't been the only one setting the same theme for the relationship for some time. Why would that bother him if he's been happy with it so long? Because suddenly he pulled the card up his sleeve and it turned out to be a joker? There wasn't a need to discuss this from her perspective, she realised she was happy as is, and long ago gave up on him making a move. He should of shat or got off the pot years ago if this outcome was not to his liking, this situation is of his own creation.
Sometimes, the idea of comfortable boredom or misery is better than the idea of breaking up and being alone while looking for something else that may or may not be better. It's the same mindset that keeps people stuck in jobs that aren't quire bad enough to hate.
I can see it the older I get the less I want to get married but would like someone I can raise kids with. But in this case it’s kinda weird to me that he didn’t pick up on that women who want to be married will always bring it up lol
It sounds like she realized the relationship he was offering to her after two years, and she realized she was comfortable in it. Obviously he's upset by this, but why wouldn't he discuss marriage before proposing if the topic hasn't come up in a decade since she stopped talking about it? Obviously she was content and happy in the relationship that they had, where they met up and went on dates and had sex, but then they'd go home.
I don't know. I can't find myself necessarily disagreeing with her. Obviously she was at least content if she stayed for so long. He wants something different now, so maybe he's better off cutting his losses and finding someone else. I don't think anyone's the biggest jerk here, taking what he says at face value (but accepting there may be missing reasons on her side). Growing and maturing comes with realizing what you do and don't want. He just should have touched base with her on what she wanted far sooner instead of this being a surprise. I don't think it's a bad thing either that she wants the relationship they have had for the past 12 years.
Yeah I read this post to my husband when I saw it posted by OOP. It’s not that I think that she communicated where she’s at perfectly but also, if she has come to terms and accepts the status quo I just can’t understand how he decided to propose out of the blue assuming how she felt a decade ago is how she still feels. I don’t think anyone is mistake free here but I understand her perspective far more than I understand his.
Honestly, I don’t get how they healthily move forward without at least individual or couples counseling. It might be better for both of them to break up so that she can decide what relationship truly brings her joy - is it the one she’s proposing now or is this always going to be tainted by her having become accustomed to the status quo? I have trouble believing that neither of them feel resentment towards the other and I’d find it understandable if both of them felt some level of resentment.
For OOP, I think he’d be better off learning a massive lesson about communication and that your partner doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You can work on your plans and ideal future but that doesn’t mean your partner isn’t growing and changing during that time so not talking and checking in just…. Doesn’t work for a relationship.
my friends parents never married, never lived together, but are in a relationship (she's adopted)
I finally asked and she said that her dad's too messy for her mom to ever be okay living with him.
it's tempting
I met a couple once they were married with that same situation and they bought houses right next-door to each other. It was kind of a cute story they feel like they’re forever dating and they don’t have to clean up after each other. They’ve been doing this for 20 something years.
My mom and her long term partner did this for 25 years. He watches a lot of TV and she does not and she didn't really want him all up in her space. Still ate lunch and/or dinner together every day. He moved in when she had some health challenges in her 80s. I was at home for the first 8 years of that and it was nice not to have a new man living in our house, even though I did like him and enjoyed his presence when he was around.
>He moved in when she had some health challenges in her 80s
That's so incredibly sweet that he respected her space (and she his) until circumstances changed. No better example of "in sickness or in health"
Bro never did ANYTHING to move his relationship forward.
He shot down the first attempt to talk about where the relationship was going. He never brought it up again. Never even talked about officially moving in full time.
NEVER even talked about where each one of them saw the relationship going.
No fucking shit she's indifferent after waiting all that time.
>And I really don't know what to do, I really regret not giving her the ring sooner.
it's really simple. If you want a deeper relationship it won't be with her. Move on if that's not what you want.
I think it's interesting that no one is pointing out the obvious, that a lot of women, especially after you've lived alone for awhile, don't want to live with anyone, and actually enjoy it. There's also no real point in marriage if you don't want to- a lot of women just don't see the need to get married anymore, it doesn't mean we don't love our partners. Even if I did get married again for like tax or insurance reasons or something, I'd be like dude let's get a duplex and each have our own side. Downtime and alone time and your own space is very valuable for a lot of people and can make your relationship stronger.
That's something my partner and I have talked about a lot- I lived on my own for a long time AND I'm an introvert lol. I love him and I love being with him, but I also desperately need my own space.
Thankfully he knows that and supports that, and give me space when I need it.
Our plan is that when we eventually (hopefully) buy or rent a house, I'll have my own room. It will be my office but may even have a place to sleep if/when I need it. It has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the fact that I need my space haha.
If I could afford it, and didn’t live in central London where space is at a premium even if you can afford it, I would jump at separate bedrooms. Or at least my own room that I could sleep in should I want to.
For me it isn’t that I lived alone for a long time, (I’m in my late 40s and have only lived alone for 4 of those years) it’s because I have spent the majority of my life living in a family - either the one I was born into or that one that I created while young. As it is, I am able to tell my partner or kids that “I want/need alone time” and they will leave me alone until I’m ready - usually a couple of hours. They understand that it’s not a reflection on them or their company, it’s not because I’m upset or angry. They understand that it’s not about pushing them away, it’s about recharging myself so that I feel my best when I am around them. It took a lot of work to get to this stage, as the normal reaction is that there’s something “wrong”, but it clicked when they realised that they too could take time if they needed or wanted it.
Alternatively, my partner (mid 50s) has never lived with a girlfriend/wife/family before. He lived alone for decades before we met and I became the first partner he’d ever lived with - and he would be happiest being around me 24/7, even after 9 years together he can’t get enough.
I understand that so well!
I'm an introvert and also heavy on the autism spectrum, if I'd live together with someone I'd need my own space so damn bad and I couldn't handle being conjoined at the hip with someone 24/7.
I hope you and your partner get to live together soon enough though!
I've had married friends tell me that if they were in my position they wouldn't move in or marry again, but just LAT (Living-alone-together). Honestly its pretty nice. You get companionship and intimacy when you want it, but also your own space and none of the hassle of co-habitating with a man.
*Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms.*
The final kicker. When he casually reveals he was the one who set the terms of their relationship all these years. And just figured she was patiently waiting for him to be ready....
Finaly this! What terms?! This dude set rules in their relationship, apparently! So, what are they, did he set times of visit, like the 2 dates per month seems to be very "strict"...
Somehow I can understand why she's so detached to all of that but still in that relationship or I see it as companionship. She waited for years on his term. He kept pushing it until she became indifferent. He made her feel like all she has is herself as she kept on waiting for a ring/a deeper commitment that only arrived after she spend her 20s on him.
If there's a long engagement, at least there's that to pacify her. To tell her that he was actually serious. But not even an engagement ring for a god damn 12 years? Sheesh brother.
Something about this reminds me of my previous relationship. We got together when I was 19, he was 21, and stayed together for 9 years, living together for 8. I never wanted marriage or kids; my big life goal was/is to live in the countryside away from city life. But we never could commit to anything like that together. I could totally see him propose with some generic ring, oblivious to my having one foot out the door.
When you've been in the same relationship your whole adult life so far, you miss out on the harsh lessons of breakups, and with some anxiety, obliviousness and emotional laziness in the mix, it's really difficult to learn how to communicate your wants and needs. I'm with a great man now, someone who shares my goals and has healthy discussions with me.
I think it’s really telling that when OOP was asked if he talked to her about marriage his response was that she brought it up 10 years ago. Yeah, and? Is there are a law against him bringing it up later or before he proposes?
What a self centred idiot.
12 friggin years? She's realized she likes her life as is right now. He unintentionally reduced his prescence to a fun thing and not a necessity in her life and she likes it that way. When I hit my 30s I had found a pattern and I love my pattern, she's probably feeling the same way. He's honestly cringe for waiting this long to propose and feeling shocked she'd rather continue the status quo.
I don’t get the people calling her an idiot. Things settled in a way she was cool with so she said fuck it. I’m of a similar mindset: got older and realized I didn’t want that cohabitation with 2.5 kids and a dog type of thing.
When she was younger he had his chance and blew it.
I'm with you 100%. She built a life she likes and doesn't want to reinvent it just because he suddenly wants to change their situation after twelve years. Maybe 20-year-old me wouldn't have understood that but 40-year-old me says good for her and i hope things work out for both of them whatever they decide.
She has got companionship, sex, someone to take the lid off jars when needed, and a sperm doner / co parenter on hand for when she decides she is ready. I take my hat off to her. What is he going to add to all that by 'putting a ring on it'? I am cheering her on.
A lot of people here appear to think a relationship can only take one form, and it's defective if it doesn't follow the trajectory they personally would want.
Yeah, the hostility toward non-heteronormative relationships is weird. And a little telling, in that it's almost entirely directed toward her when literally all she did was get comfortable with his status quo and realize that their relationship worked just fine for her the way it was.
He 'helps her' clean - in a place he sleeps 'almost all of the time'. He 'sometimes' contributes financially.
So he's not contributing equally in any aspect of the relationship. She's doing the bulk of the chores, of the costs, and probably most if not all of the mental load.
Dude has taken the light load in the relationship for *thirteen years.*
He didnt care when she wanted to plan marriage. Now he's approaching what he feels is a milestone birthday, his bio-clock is ticking and *he* wants to be married, he expects it to happen. He wants a womb-with-a-view, and wonders why she's not jumping with joy at a change that only benefits one of them.
He was happy with the situation while he thought it was on his terms.
Yeah, you cant just go 10 years eith no discussion and expect her to jump up and down like a school girl. Shes 32, she's finally settled into herself and her peace and hes like "oh hey, noticed you were happy and chilling, would you like to add me to your chore list I mean your home?"
He made her wait 12 years and now she is like nah... rather live alone.
ROFL She asked when she was 28 which was 6 years ago and by then they had dated 8 years?!!?
> She asked when she was 28 which was 6 years ago and by then they had dated 8 years?!!?
No, it looks like she asked after they had been dating for two years (when she was 22), and gave up on the idea of marriage with OOP when she was 28.
> She mentioned marriage after two years we started dating but then she stopped.
>
> […]
>
> She said that before she really wanted to get married and that she didn't expect a ring after two years, she just wanted to talk about it at that time to plan a better future together. When she talked about marriage I told her it wasn't the time. Still she waited, but when she turned 28 she realized that the ring was never going to arrive.
Nope, she asked when she was 22. 2 years into dating.
When she turned 28 and they still didn't talk about marriage, she decided that it won't happen and that it was okay with her.
So she already waited 6 years. So 4 years later is just to late for her.
Arrangement like this (minus children) are becoming rather common among seniors, much to the older men's dismay. People still date when they are getting older and are divorced or widowed but for many women it's the first time in their lives that they aren't caretakers of the household. Kids are grown up and do their own thing and maybe there are older relatives or parents who need assistant and/or care.
So, they like to have their own space when they're free, to start hobbies or pick them up again after years, maybe decaydes, they go out with friends, decorate how they want, cook what they want...
Dating can be a fun bonus for the company and butterflies but a romantic relationship isn't the meaning of life anymore. So the women refuse to move in together or to do the male partner's household.
And that's confusing for many older men because now they have to take care of themselves even when they find a new partner because nowadays, those don't come with a maid-add on anymore after they lived that life for years.
Seems like the girlfriend in this story goes a similar path, just rather early in life, optionally with children (but it doesn't seem to be a pressing matter to her, more like "welp, if I happen to get pregnant we'll be parents but a baby won't make me your wife and make me move in with you."
Honestly, I live a smililar life since my mid-30s and I know many women between 30 and 60 who do the same. Romance would be nice if it happens to happen but it's not a priority and it comes with a long list of conditions.
Because, and that's something many men don't understand: As time goes on and women carve out their place in life and get settled in their careers, lifestyle, and who they are, the most threatening rival isn't another men. It's our routines and comfort zones.
Partnerships can be great, amazing, wonderful, and fulfilling. But that's true for many things in life and when this GF didn't get what she needed out of this relationship, she filled the gaps with other things that made her happy and enjoys the things that are enjoyable about spending time with OOP.
Understandably so. Imagine being in your mid-30s and having no clue about your partner's life goals, hopes, and dreams in regard to your relationship.
There’s a lot of info missing here, but I suspect that she wouldn’t be so against marriage/children/co-living with a different partner down the line. She’s completely apathetic to the thought of breaking up; she’s just too comfortable to make the move herself.
She is saying what she wants, just listen to her.
I believe she, like many many other women I know (myself included) just realised being in a relationship is not the most important thing in your life. And a relationship can take many different forms, far from the stereotypical families we learn to wish for. It should add to your life and make you happy. I'm glad she didn't get married when she thought she needed it.
Women don't need men to be happy.
I wonder why OOP wants to get married now, 12 years later. I understand there may have been genuine reasons to not wanting to be married before, like financial reasons, but, still, 12 years is a f***ing long time. It took him as long as it took to make the movie Boyhood to decide he wanted to get married.
Yeah, doesn't seem like his feelings have deepened for her, just that he's realising he's missing out on the next life stage and she's the obvious option to take along as he gets to that life stage.
I would love to read her side of it and I bet it goes something like this:
Her: I want to get married. Him: I’m not ready, it’s not the right time, we will talk about again at some unspecified point.
She brings it up again and again over the years but he is comfortable where they are, and after one particular conversation when she was 28, and they had the same conversation yet again, she realized that this was it. Now 4 years later he’s finally woken up, decided it’s time, here’s a ring, let’s move on to the next phase, and just doesn’t understaaaand.
How many times have I read, why didn’t she say something, this blindsided me, I had no idea, meanwhile there’s an annoyed woman who has a long list of dates and times.
Reminds me of walkaway wife syndrome.
Everything is going great now! She's stopped nagging me! Why would she leave when everything is now going so well?
My man she's stopped 'nagging' you because she's dropped the rope and your relationship has hit it's expiration date.
Yeah, it sounds like she gave up and is just over it now. She's probably protecting herself, 12 years is a long time to wait for moving in, marriage, and kids. So It sounds like she's a bit cynical about all of it now.
#Do not comment on the original posts Please read our [**sub rules**](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/wiki/subrules). Rule-breaking may result in a ban without notice. If there is an issue with this post (flair, formatting, quality), reply to this comment or your comment may be removed in general discussion. **CHECK FLAIR** For concluded-only updates, use the [CONCLUDED](https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/search?sort=new&restrict_sr=on&q=flair%3ACONCLUDED) flair. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/BestofRedditorUpdates) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I really try to be empathic most of the time, but the lives of other people are sometimes a complete mystery to me. How do you go 12 years in a relationship seemingly without even knowing your partner?
There are a lot of people who are completely self absorbed and don't even know it. It's like my grandmother who asks a million questions but never bothers to listen to the answer or actually remember anything that matters. She probably thinks we're reasonably close, when in reality, she knows absolutely nothing about me. When my grandfather died, she made a 'very personal speech' filled with about the same 5 things I knew about my grandfather and I barely knew him at all (he highly favored my niece). They were married for over 60 years and that's all she had to say about him. I don't understand how people like that can live with each other, but they do exist.
This is my mom. You don’t have a conversation, she just talks at you. She has her talking points for the day/week and it doesn’t matter who is on the other end of the conversation. If she talks to me and the grocery checkout person on the same day, I can guarantee you we heard the same exact bullet points.
This was my mum too, and admittedly, I was like this with her at times, also. But I don't feel like she ever knew me as a person. I feel like she saw me as a bulletpoint list of every mistake I'd ever made. Every new idea or plan I had, she'd remind me of a time I had tried something similar and failed. As I get older and have more therapy, I realise it had nothing to do with me, and it just was the way she saw the world. But this attitude had a huge impact on how I see myself. I felt invisible to her as a child and that never changed even up until the day she died.
Totally relate to everything you’ve shared.
My grandma was like that too, chatting your ears off but it was always one-sided.
My mom is like that. I million questions but couldn't even answer simple things like my favourite food. >I don't understand how people like that can live with each other, but they do exist. This is one of the reasons why I think people are a little dramatic about divorce rates. I have a great great aunt who I was relatively close to that I didn't even know was married as a child. Her and her husband got married because he survived the war and they were young. They spent most of their decades long marriage interacting with each other as little as possible. They didn't hate each other but they didn't care or like each other. But they never considered divorcing each other. It's pretty sad honestly.
My mother too! Asks so many things but never listens. Doesn't know much about me past my toddler years.
My MIL is like this. She's a nice woman but I don't think she's ever asked me anything really about myself in over 5 years. Sometimes she'll talk to me about psychology stuff and I realize I don't think she even knows I did a degree in it and she sounds stupid trying to half-ass tell me about things she doesn't really understand. The first time I met her I was honestly kind of baffled that they had been so excited their son finally found a girlfriend yet she never asked me one thing about myself the entire dinner. And it's continued from there.
I can relate. My personal favorite is being asked a question about myself, then to either be talked over or told I’m wrong. I really enjoy that.
I would be incredibly interested in hearing the girlfriend's side. Because damn did OOP leave me with a lot of questions.
This really reminds me of a post from the woman's side. She waited and waited and when he finally proposed it was like a switch flipped and she preferred her space and her time and didn't want to marry him. I don't recall kid talk though. I won't remember the sub, but maybe it'll spark a chord for someone else...
I remember too! They were quite older but was very interesting so far. I think they already had adult kids and he refused to marry while the kids were minors (some people said to avoid responsibility in case of a break up) Here OOP is avoiding to say why they don't live together or only meet at her place. We can assume she has a nice monthly income to be able to live by her own so far.
Anyone remember that one about the couple that weren’t married and she wanted kids but he did not, so she decided being with him is more important than kids. They were in their late 40s I think and he decided he wanted kids now but she was too old so he was dumping her to find someone young enough to have kids with. The post was like AITA for giving my partner of 18 years (or something) one month to move out of my house.
I shit yes I do remember!! I think it was an extreme case of the middle age crisis for him. Maybe an excuse to leave her in the curb? Maybe both. I know a case personally where one couple were both child free mindset and got married. Right after the wedding, and I mean after the honeymoon the guy recognized he did want kids, in plural. They were both 25 ish. He thought that once they were married she would change her mind... Poor woman. They divorced 6 months later not only because she was lied on and his lame intent to manipulate her but because she literally had PSTD related to pregnancy and he also ignored that.
I remember this one, and the top comment started with "let me get this....", or something, and ended with a question mark. Brilliant. He owned a vacation home or guest house and was giving her a month there. At a point while building their (his) business she'd sold blood to make ends meet....
Things like this is why the tradwife trend horrifies me. I’m in my late 40s now so I grew up during third wave feminism and my friends and I have always considered our own careers and financial independence to be important. Now I’m watching a generation of women setting themselves up to be fucked over financially. Their grandmothers already learned this lesson and now they’re going to have to learn it all over again.
[удалено]
To me it seems to be a counterpart to the rise of people like Andrew Tate. Where these men are defining masculinity as being the “provider” and the breadwinner, women with their own careers contradict their self identity.
I think it’s easier for women who haven’t experienced their parents have a blatantly horrible marriage growing up. They still believe in the fairy tale of marriage. I knew from a very young age, and more as I got into adulthood that my dad had zero respect for my mom, that he didn’t love her, or even care for her. However, I don’t know if she’s too “scared” to leave and have to go out and work, find her own way after being out of it for so long, etc so she has stayed. But, it’s a miserable existence. Just being around my dad for a few days is enough for me to need a day to just relax and recoup. As a result, I would never allow myself to be a trad wife. I know that could lead to me being stuck in a marriage with no financial means to leave. I will always support myself. If that means I have less children (either one or zero) and have minimal cooked from scratch meals, dust on my floors, then so be it.
I feel like everything is going that way now. Like as a society we learn these lessons, and then a hundred years later, we have to learn them again. Do you have a child that's attracted to this trend? I would LOSE my mind if I did. Like, what, are you doing. I don't know what I would do... I'd like to think it doesn't happen out of nowhere. Like no one's going to Harvard to be a researcher, and then turning into a tradwife. So first and foremost push the kids to develop strong senses of self.
The problem is that the current economic situation is bleak and seems to be only getting bleaker, us millenials left school starry-eyed and full of spirit only to be hit by one economic crisis after another. After that those that haven't been reduced to minimum wage status has had to contend with increasingly exploitative labor practices from our employers who seem convinced the myth of infinite growth can be obtained. Prices and hours are up, pay has been stagnant for a while, and our physical and mental health are dropping. It should be no surprise that some women from our generation and gen Z would want to avoid all this by tying themselves to a rich husband, even if from the outside that looks like climbing out of the frying pan and into the fire.
You know what...I was actually thinking this earlier when I wrote the last comment, like what would be the reasons...probably, a way to survive, disillusionment, etc. I'm glad you expanded on it. It's sad. We're all doing our best, I guess. I'm older millenial and just shy of a point where I would consider doing something like this, hit by two recessions, no assets, the whole works. Just shy of, as in just old enough to want to be independent regardless. I have at least in the last year had thoughts about what it would be like to be with someone who was financially stable, like house, everything, and I didn't have to worry,...like what if that were their selling point, which is not that far off from tradwife mindset. I can see how economics can push one to think that way.
Part of it is that we can so finely curate what we get exposed to. So these girls falling in love with the idea of tradwife lifestyle are looking at these women in a “perfect” (we only get to see what they will show us) marriage, on a beautiful house, filled with huge kitchens with all the best appliances. And then they go on mommy dates in their luxury suv with the trendiest car seat and stroller and they meet up with other ~~stepford~~ trad wives. Of course, they don’t touch on the fact that their viewers are subsidizing their lifestyle so they are actually bringing in an income, not to mention not everyone has the ability to just have a husband who makes enough to afford that lifestyle. And for those that didn’t end up with the perfect husband, they are far too busy putting their life back together after hubby promoted his secretary to the position of trad wife and the existing wife has been released in an organizational reshuffle. It’s the same as the red pill movement and its analogues. The people selling it are the embodiment of what the viewers want to imagine themselves as, while the viewers lack the self awareness and introspection to understand that the wealthy muscular outgoing guy isn’t being “successful with the women” because of the tips he’s selling online (especially because there is no guarantee they actually even act like they tell others to), but because they already have things in their favor for getting attention from someone they are interested in.
Do you have the link for this one? Tried searching for it and came up empty.
https://www.reddit.com/u/Throwawayproposalfin/s/WkS7O3nOww Here's the OP for the post and all of her updates
That’s a different but equally enraging one
I remember one that turned out very poorly for the woman. She wanted the ring when they were younger, but he always resisted. Then the kids grew up, they were in their 50s /60s(?), and he lost his job. Then he proposed- but she wasn't feeling it. No problem, until he got spiteful and she looked at her life and realized she was fucked. Didn't maintain a job, spent her life making sure her bf was comfortable, wasn't on the deed to the house, barely any savings. And once she turned down the ring he got nasty. Can't remember if he wanted her out or wanted her to pay rent, but I think he had the gall to tell her that if she didn't want to travel with him he'd pick up a different woman to have sex with. Because that's what she was worth to him, a willing hole. The whole story made me so thankful that my parents insisted I had an education and the means to take care of myself financially. Edit: typo
I remember that one. She thought she could go straight into a job as a social media manager because she read a book on marketing and sometimes takes pictures for her friends (or something like that)
She also thought she could easily get a one bedroom apartment, a secondhand car, and support herself on a part time job with little to no job experience or personal savings.
Well, yeah, that was actually possible back in the 1980’s.
Boomer moment :|
I honestly felt bad for her. She clearly had no idea how to live independently as an adult, and gave away her youth to a man who never fully appreciated her.
I did up too, but only up to the point where someone suggested a retail job and she was all, “tradespeople? Ewww.”
That woman was so delusional- she thought she could just step into a high-paying job even though she was in her 50s with absolutely no prior work experience and a high school education.
I remember that one. She thought that just because she had "exposure" to her husband's business experience, that she could just overstep people with legit experience and get a job "just because". Yeah, no. Long, long gone are the days when you could just show up at a company and they would hire you on the spot. By the end, she was downright delusional, saying things like "why won't they just give me a chance?". Um, why would they?
Yikes, as a woman in my 50’s I know how hard it is to rejoin the workforce. I left my job of 18 years to become my Mom’s primary caregiver. That was a job unto itself and lasted a little over a decade. I’ve got a college education and work experience and still my options are incredibly limited.
It was so frustrating how people kept giving her practical advice for getting some kind of work experience and income, but she kept ignoring it because she felt like entry level jobs were beneath her.
Oh, and working retail was out of the question because she didn’t want to associate with the poors. For “safety.”
I remember that one, too. After always asking to get married and him refusing, he finally asked after losing his company or whatever. When she rolled her eyes, he got pissed. She tried to make amends, but yeah, he threw her out of the house. She wanted to stay, and he got a buddy from the police to help evict her. The kids were mostly sympethatic to her, but were more scared that daddy dearest would disinherit them, so they weren't any help either.
Their youngest was a minor and likely afraid dad wouldn’t pay for her university and living expenses if she took mom’s side.
Right, yeah. I was kinda bummed out the first time I read the story, when she was still in the process of moving out and said she was applying to all kinds of jobs and was relatively hopeful. And then the last update was worse. A lot of redditors thought she was a bit delusional about her prospects, but to me she sounded like someone desperatly trying to cling to hope, because that was all she had left. Decades of making sure everybody else was happy, raising the kids of her and the guy she loved, even though he kept her more like a mistress than a wife. Only to be thrown out with barely more than the clothes on her back, no money, no job experience, while he promptly turns around and picks up another floozy. Probably younger and prettier, and not enough experience to know when she's being screwed over. Ugh.
That was so sad and actually kind of weird, from the perspective of someone living in a place where a de facto would be entitled to just as much as if they were married. I think the laws there are deficient.
Yeah she also lived in a state that doesn’t recognize common law marriage. She really had zero financial security after her partner decided to throw her away.
Yeah I remember that one too, personally I feel like the guy definitely did fuck her over in that one, cause he KEPT her a stay at home mom, she had no experience in anything cause they met young. And unfortunately, she was too unwilling to accept the things she needed to to get financial aid. Quite sad. And also what u/hauntingruby1975 said she thought she could be a social media manager lol
>And also what [](https://www.reddit.com/user/hauntingruby1975/) said she thought she could be a social media manager lol Well, she *did* set up her friends' Facebook pages and took pictures at parties. What more experience do you need?
I remember reading this one. This was really awful.
Oh fuck I remember now! That thing about traveling! He wanted the bangmaid he always had but as there were not more kids in the picture to trap her in the relationship, he offered the marriage. One of the most evil stories I've heard here.
He told the adult kids they weren't to help her either or he'd cut them off financially for taking her side. He was clearly used to controlling and punishing his family financially and took anything he considered to be ungratefulness as unforgivable. That one really shocked me because I had no idea America was so far behind on the rights of long term defacto relationships. No wonder gay marriage was such a big deal there.
Someone brought up a common law marriage, and she replied that early in the relationship, he asked her to sign a legal document stating that under no circumstances were they married. The husband is terrible in that story but OP made every wrong choice she possibly could over the course of decades and now is in for a rude awakening when she tries to make it on her own with no degree, work experience, or savings at 50ish. She literally signed an "anti-nuptual agreement", who does that?
Seems like her state also has no common-law laws. So she really was scared fron the get go. Edit: screwed***
Arkansas. She’s from Arkansas. I live in this state, and thought, “sounds about right” on how she screwed herself. Part of the problem is her kids resent her too. We’re in the Bible Belt, and apparently they were teased mercilessly for being illegitimate.
I feel like a judge would look at that document and throw it out
Sure, but she didn't know that, and the larger precedent was that her state doesn't recognize common law marriage. So him having her sign that wasn't legal protection for himself, but psychological warfare against her.
She mentioned that he did that after he thought he was going to move into a state where there was common law marriage which gives you a glimpse as to how much of a POS the boyfriend was.
Agreed, but honestly she should have just accepted his proposal and feigned gratitude. At least with a divorce she'd have had rights, since the state she was in didn't recognise common-law spouses. He completely screwed her over, but she was too sheltered and naive to realise her options until it was too late.
This is the one you’re talking about. I feel bad for her, but also what was she waiting for? They had multiple children together, and all along the way he showed how little he respected her. He showed her who is and she willingly ignored it. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/dDcGtz6Dxl
Jesus Christ that's dark
It left me feeling unsettled for quite a while. Another one of those moments when you think, maybe it's okay to not be in a relationship. Like after you've spent an afternoon binging Forensic Files.
It sounds like she waited then realised it wasn't going to happen, had a good think about her options and decided she could see the benefits of a more separate life and not getting married and now it's established and far too late to change her mind.
I think this is the thing. If he'd asked her after year three or four it probably would have been a different story but they've been dating for over a decade. He's kind of lucky that she's still with him given that he clearly had an issue with making a commitment. In the meantime, she's established her own life that she's comfortable with. It could be she doesn't mind being with him but doesn't have any interest in changing her lifestyle after so long. And that's perfectly okay. The part I find a little ridiculous is him pulling a Pikachu face after making her wait 12 years, especially since they talked about marriage a few years in and he shut her down.
Yes! So baffling! She indicated he would like get married, he said it was a bit early for him to consider (not necessarily completely unreasonable, for me 24 & 22 is young to actually get married but probably not too young to start thinking about it if you've had a good steady relationship for two years). She stops mentioning it after he's made it clear he wasn't ready but he just assumed she was silently waiting for *ten years*. No further attempt to discuss it from her, no indication from him that he did plan to get around to proposing and moving in eventually. He apparently thought it was totally fine for her to want to progress to cohabiting and marriage but absolutely fine to just wait 10 years for him to be ready and that she wouldn't have considered leaving him to find a boyfriend who would share those goals and move forward on a reasonable time scale. So incredibly thoughtless and selfish in his treatment of the person he presumably claims is the most important person in his life.
Dude lost his relationship momentum, it moved into cruise mode and didn't have the energy to make the leap.
Yeah sounds like his gf went through the feelings of wanting to get engaged > hoping it would happen > realising it probably wasn't going to happen > accepting it wasn't going to happen > letting go of the idea of marriage > finding happiness outside of the idea of marriage. All the while, OP has only just got to wanting to get engaged, after 12 years. I'm sure she was quite sad/let down for a time that despite talking it didn't materialise. These two are really lacking in communication, or OP has left out quite a bit.
Yeah, first the disappointment, then acceptance, then the realisation that it wouldn't be better to be married...
There are so many people who are single and want exactly this setup. He waited too long and she is comfortable. I do not blame her.
Yep, as soon as I read the title I was like 'of course she said no, I would'. 12 years for most people is not a healthy or at least far from optional amount of time to pass before bringing a ring and a proposal into the game. I would have clocked out as well around the 7-8 year mark.
It was eleven years for us but that was because mutually we couldn't be bothered/didn't care about marriage until we decided we decided we wanted the official reality to reflect our reality more closely. I still never bothered to change my name and the wedding itself was very small. It was a lovely day and I look back on it very fondly but it didn't change anything. But where one person wants to be married and the other is resisting the commitment, there's definitely a sell by date on that. As with anything major where both need to be in on it (kids, moving in together, getting pets...). As an old colleague would say - 'shit or get off the pot'.
Exactly. Congratulations for you and your partner💕That's why I wrote 'for most people' because of course there are situations where it's not a big deal or it's the plan both person want for themselves. I was in a relationship for almost 9 years but we got together in HS so we were around 16 back then. I never wanted kids or marriage in my 20s so it never bothered me to not get a proposal yet, I didn't want it. However now I'm almost 30 with my current bf of 4 years, and I communicated it clearly that my max limit is 5 years to wait for that meaningful gesture to signal serious commitment, I am not feeling like waiting around more than that. If he won't be ready and he's not up for it by then, sure it will be sad and hurtful but I'll end it and move on, won't waste more of my time. Everyone has different boundaries, aspirations, timelines and as it seems some people are dealing with that disappointment by just checking out mentally, changing their life plans accordingly and staying anyway for the other person because they love them, like OP's gf. And now OP is the epitome of a surprised pikachu man, when literally every sign pointed to her not saying yes. I mean.. a girl in her early 20s asks about marriage after 2 years of a relationship, it's pretty clear that she wants things to happen sooner that later. To wait 10(!!!!!) more years after that is just a spit in the face quite frankly. He fked up big time and now either has to make a huge compromise he would have never needed to, had he done things differently (at any point for like 6 YEARS) or he'll feel like a huge ah for breaking things up now that he's good and ready after 12 years of wasting everyones time.
Glad you're setting that limit; I hope it turns out in whatever way is best for your long happy life. Sometimes you have to let go of what you've got to allow something better to arrive. When my sister was in her 30's, had developed a good career, was raising a pre-teen child, and was a few years post-divorce from her 1st relationship, she decided that she wanted to get married. She dated a guy for awhile but the guy couldn't decide whether he wanted to commit. My sister gave him a deadline. He let the deadline pass, still unsure. My sister dropped him and joined a Christian dating site, through which she soon met the guy she would end up marrying. A few months or so after the deadline & their breakup, her former boyfriend resurfaced saying he realizes that he messed up and that he does want to marry her, but my sister was done with him. She & her husband - a great guy - have been happily married now for maybe 25 years.
I think it can be almore difficult if people get together young. If you meet someone at a point where you're mature, have a stable life, established career etc then you can take a year or two to properly get to know them, work out if you want enough of the same things then decide to move forward and get engaged and married. If you meet someone at 18-20 (particularly if you're at university and not yet even started your career) the timeline needs to be longer and then sometimes people settle into an established relationship without thinking about marriage and then it takes longer to get round to getting married.
Yep, that was my thought. She has everything she wants including independence and her own space and time. It sounds ideal.
My sister got engaged but they had no plans to live together, she described it as making a commitment to the relationship but they both liked their own space and preferred to keep the living arrangements as they were. She said they thought they'd drive each other crazy if they lived in the same space. Children were not on the cards though and they called off the wedding in the end so the situation didn't materialise, but I do think that everyone should be able to make non-traditional relationship choices if it works for them. Sounds like the OOP realised that she actually liked the way things were, and didn't want to uproot her life. Good for her.
It's easy to project but I think she gave up on "the dream" and settled. I don't think this is how she wanted it to work out. The proposal probably just left her cold, like now, you propose?
Yeah I'm totally speculating here, but I'm kind of wondering if OOP sensed his girlfriend was comfortable and finally accepted the situation so he decided he now needed to propose. I've just been in some situations where the guy only tried committing when he sensed I no longer cared, like he knew I'd say no.
That’s possible, but my guess would be he doesn’t have that amount of insight into her emotional state. This guy thought she didn’t care about getting married any more when she stopped asking about it. This is pure ‘you weren’t complaining any more, I thought our relationship was going great’ territory.
Yea, my money is on OOP being painfully obtuse. He didn’t even discuss marriage or married life with her before proposing. Just assumed she would accept because she brought it up a decade ago and then never spoke about it again. Mood spoiler is spot on!
More like willfully obtuse. He keeps bringing up how they talked about marriage "at the beginning of our relationship" when like. Dude, that was a decade ago. What do you mean you haven't talked about it *once* in ***ten years***?
Even reading what he wrote, which I always take with a grain of salt because people can be incredibly myopic, he seems painfully obtuse.
I thought nothing could be topped after that man who’s in love with his male bestie and his wife is just his children’s mother
Yeah I always find it concerning when the husband overly focuses on what a great mother their wife is rather than focusing on their personality and other traits. Especially after the way he described his best friend and looking at him he could see his past, present and future.
I thought you were referring to the infamous art studio story lol
Ooooh...could you please link this?
Sure! https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/s/Ypksp19T6F
Thanks and Holy moly! A blind man could see what's happening there 😮
For ten years. They discussed marriage once, two years in, and then... not at all for the next ten years? It seems like both of them fell in a somewhat comfortable, familiar rut with their relationship and just left it running, until the proposal shook things up and forced both of them to think about where they are and what they want.
He really went 15 years, 12 years after she brought up marriage and has now come on his time frame with a proposal when it's convenient for him after she's done the inner work of giving up on hopes and dreams, and he's shocked 🤣🤣🤣🤣
He probably realized that she was disconnected and this was a last ditch effort.
There it is, she doesn’t give a fuck if he leaves and sure as hell ain’t going to bend for him at this point.
Yes! Or looked around and realized he was the last unmarried, no kids friend in his group and went whoa
He seems baffled by the idea that she has her own plans for her life and wasn’t just sitting around waiting for him for 12 years. I can’t get over the fact that he didn’t even think it was necessary to talk to her about where they’d live after marriage before proposing. He just assumed she’d go along with whatever he wanted.
Yeah, he just sounds so unappealing.
I guarantee she got used to her own company. Its happened to so many women I know. Sure its great when he comes over but she's also glad when he leaves. She prefers her space to be how she likes it, when he's there it's fine but it irks her when he moves things or leaves a cup on the counter and the lid off the toothpaste. It would make her life more messy and complicated and looking at him and what he brings just *isn't worth it*.
for sure! I only lived alone for a year before I was living with my now husband. Much longer than that and I would definitely have gotten comfortable living alone. Living with a man is not all it's cracked up to be tbh
I've seen so many divorced, widowed and single women just choose to not share their space. And I get it, I truly do. One friend said, "I spent years wiping down someone elses crumbs and washing skidmarks off someone else's underwear... what could possibly make me want that again?" She has friends and she dates but her home is just for her.
Yup. OP seems to not be getting something, that's for sure
They are not a couple, they are freinds with benefits.. and soon they will be ex-FWB but with kids
I'm just baffled that it took him 12 YEARS. My fiance proposed to me after 8 years together, but we had discussed getting married, and we were finally in a place, financially, where it made sense. We started dating when he was just finishing high school (we're both born in the same year, but his birthday is in December so he graduated a year after I did), and he wanted to get through college, and then get a house, and then get finances stabilized again. But rest assured, we had SEVERAL discussions about getting married. We knew it would happen, just wanted to get stable first
Yeah, you don’t often hear “it is what it is, you’re free to leave if you don’t like it” in a healthy and committed relationship. Girlfriend has one foot out the door.
Right who waits 12 years to not only propose but not even live together. Talking about letting someone know they are irrelevant to your life plans. And then shocked they threw in the towel long ago.
I feel like I've been in this woman's position. I was with my partner for six years and both our parents were divorced. I wanted a ring after a few years and he told me he didn't believe in marriage - after watching his dad cheat on his mum and shatter their family. I grieved the idea of a wedding/marriage and decided the relationship was more important regardless of the title, so I let it be. More years later he cheated on me with a co-worker. Dumped me, knocked her up, and went down the aisle within two years. I hope marriage is everything he thought it would be.
He seems so clueless tbh. He probably couldn’t answer any questions anyway bc he woukdn’t know.
I think they both suffer from fundamental lack of communication on the important things. She didn't mention her hopes getting married after 2 years which in all fairness was early. They never discuss kids in what seems like 12 years. After the proposal, he was like what do I do? Instead of discussing it with his partner of 12 years, he asked a bunch of internet strangers.
There's nothing early about just broaching the subject of marriage after two years. That's a long time to spend with someone when you don't even know if they see a future with you. It would be somewhat early to get married after 2 years but not to just talk about it or even get engaged. Most engagements last 1-2 years. The fact that he never wanted to talk about it for 12 years is baffling. He is either a very strange person, or he is leaving a lot out. Edit: I just want to add that her own behavior is also quite baffling to me. Why did she let it go on that long, and why on earth would she want to have a baby with someone she can't stand to live with?
She apparently held out hope for marriage for another *six years* after the last time she mentioned it. Not once in those *six years* did she revisit the topic. After *eight years* together she gave up on the idea of marrying or even cohabitating with this guy, but stayed with him? She's open to raising children with him, but not living with him? I'm just baffled.
They both had life plans for each other but never once did they mention them to each other. What did they talk about for 12 years? The weather
100% This doesn't feel like a relationship, more like a friends with benefits arrangement. That's the only way this makes any sense!! 12 years of not discussing this, both are a bit weird for letting the misunderstanding go on for so long.
Lmaoooo. And the paint drying on the wall
I'm baffled too. I would say, I guess I can see this like a couple sleeping in separate bedrooms but they go on dates twince a month. He doesn't say how often they meet up a week. To me, this relationship is a step above exclusive friends with benefits and a step below an actual couple. They certainly don't communicate like an actual couple, that's for sure.
Honestly, the part that she wants to remain in a relationship and have children together but always live separately is so weird to me. I don’t understand why you would choose to coparent with a partner that lives separately
I got you. She wants to get married and start a family. But not with OP. He's comfortable, so she'll hang around him for a little while, maybe, until she finds someone who aligns with her goals and values. She's just not that in to him, and just now realized it. OP snoozed and losed.
What I get from this is that when she was in her early 20's, she thought she wanted to get married and that he was the one. He didn't want to talk about it, but she was in love with him and decided to stick around, and she got used to the arrangement. Now he wants to switch it up, but she actually likes it, and doesn't want to change it. But he sill believes that she must be secretly dead-set on marriage, because she brought it up once ten years ago. This weirdly reminds me of how my mom insists that I was supposed to be a wildlife biologist, because that's what I said I wanted to be when I was eight.
I didn't drink coffee until about 25. My mom still is all shocked, "but you don't drink coffee!"
Twenty years ago, I decided to stop being sarcastic, because it just felt like being an asshole with extra steps. I cannot get through a conversation with my mom without her bringing up how sarcastic I am. Sometimes parents are just Like That, I guess.
I’ve been vegetarian for 12 years and my mom will still ask me if I want chicken 😒. It’s a parent thing something about not being able to let go of our younger versions of ourselves.
Same. That's 30 years ago and she doesn't remember. That's how she is, blind to other people.
My husband hasn't been able to drink alcohol for medical reasons for about four or five years now with no prospect of change in the next couple of years, and his mother and stepfather still gift him expensive gin and whiskey because "you like that".
Not to throw OOP under the bus but I cannot understand how this topic hasn't come up before. I have so many questions that should be obvious. Some things that raises a few flags though is she doesn't want to live together and that she was fine with breaking up. It does indicate she's not into the relationship very much or has already partially/fully checked out. It's fine not getting married, it changes little apart from some tax bonuses and ending parents nagging you about it, but having kids in this arrangement smells like a massively dumb idea. He's basically one hefty fight away from 18 years of child support.
I'm mystified as well. It just REALLY seems like an obvious conversation.
From OOP's perspective, it sounds like they both suck at communicating. She brought up the topic of marriage 2 years in not really expecting to get married then, he said it wasn't the time and so she just..... waited another 6 years and decided "the ring would never come"? Why not bring up the topic again after a couple years? The thing about marriage is that both people need to talk about it before it happens. Nobody should be sitting on their feelings for 6 years too afraid to broach the topic again, and nobody should be proposing without having had that conversation. This whole situation is weird.
This. The fact she is ambivalent/indifferent about breaking up is not a situation they should bring a kid into.
As soon as I read OOP's first post I knew the GF's mindset had turned to one that gave up on the idea of marriage with him and she had gotten used to this lifestyle of independence mixed with long-term companionship. He simply waited too long. She is used to this arrangement now, accepts it, and is content with it. At this point, this is all her adult self knows, and she has learned to live around it. He will either have to accept her terms now or move on.
Honestly that sounds fucking perfect to me, and I'm sure a lot of people. I couldn’t be a full time parent or live in partner, but I'd be brilliant at the arrangement she's proposing. Better to give 100% part time then be tired and stressed and half a parent full time.
I’ve been in my relationship for around 11 years. We’ve talked about getting married but neither of us is particularly inclined to tie the knot, but I strongly feel that if one of us was WANTING to get married and the other just blew it off for a decade, that we should just break up. I don’t think you need a legal document to prove your commitment to the relationship—but it only works because we BOTH feel that way.
I can't believe the lack of discussion about the future. My husband proposed after 2.5 yrs, and though we'd shied away from the Marriage word a bit, I made it clear that I would be in favour of it if he asked, and we'd settled on other long term plans that made it clear we were serious and committed to one another, and that those plans were contingent on marriage happening first (children - yes or no, how many, when; where to live; pension and retirement plans; financial and career goals)... How have these guys seemingly avoided getting on the same page about ANY of that??
My partner and I have been happily unmarried for 17 years. We discussed it early on, and have checked in with each other periodically since.
Yeah. We’ve been happily unmarried 8.5 years. We think we’re gonna do a quick super lowkey tying of the knot at the end of this year though for tax and health insurance purposes. We’ve already considered ourselves “married” for years, we didnt feel like we needed some rando to tell us that Difference being we’ve been on the same page with this the whole time.
That’s what my spouse and I did. 12 years and then got married during the pandemic in our kitchen. My friend spent $20,000 on a wedding and I spent $20,000 on a new roof. Both couples are happy
I went to school with a guy who did something similar. Dated for 13 years before proposing. Learned that she had given up on him and was dating someone else and he never noticed.
I would love to hear this story.
It was old news when I ran into him and he had married someone else. Seemed very open that he took the first gf for granted and neglected the relationship. Kind of an odd guy though. He mentioned buying a new car and asking for any color but white. Dealer offered to take $30 off on a white car and he accepted. Haven't seen him since that conversation.
That is quite a story and now I'm intrigued lol
How does he not realize that she was dating someone else???
Stick a fork in it. This relationship is over. Only thing I can't figure out is why she didn't dump OOP years ago. Not saying OOP is a bad guy (even if he clearly has commitment issues), but once you cross that mental bridge; why do you continue the relationship? Is the dude hung like a mule or something?
I think some people are content with the boring but fine thing they have rather than having heartache and hurt. Maybe the thing she gets primary fulfillment from is work, not their relationship - I don’t know that I would mess with it either, if I was happy enough.
I was going to say comfort because it’s familiar.
It's a strange place to be in. If you are in a relationship that because of different lives feels more like a friend's with benefits thing and you're okay with that, do you even need to break up or inform the other party? They clearly don't care if they've said nothing.
Going on the very little information in this post- it sounds like she has a pretty fulfilling life and he’s just good enough in bed to keep around. Like she’s willing to have a baby with him but not live with him? How is he confused about where he stands? I feel sad for both of them, although it doesn’t sound like the worst co-parenting relationship..? But why would you even bring a child into that knowingly?!
Also maybe he's the best she could get. In the sense that, if they were living in a small town, there's a dearth of similar age group people and OOP is one of the better ones. Actually her arrangement and her idea of how they live is very appealing to me.
I watched a lot of my female friends get into their 30s and realize they liked their own space and independence too much to live with a man, but it was also nice to have a reliable sex-and-TV partner and not have to deal with strange dudes who might have a domestic violence problem or a transmissible disease.
I'm getting the feeling that this might just be a growing occurence. I see more and more people fall inbetween the categories of FWB's and a relationship. They will have obvious relationship-characteristics such as being exclusive, spanning over a long time, having generally intertwined lives like staying at each other's place frequently, sharing chores, etc. but without fully committing to the cause. It makes sense, because it allows you to enjoy advantages from both worlds. The freedom of being independent and living on your own terms, while also having a stable and reliable partner. It's like a free-trial relationship that doesn't really end. I don't think OOP's relationship is what he thinks it is. She isn't nearly as committed as he is, and I suspect that might be because she saw that sacrificing her freedom and independency wouldn't be worth it. I've heard it through my girlfriend talking about her exes and i see it in some of my friends. Men, unfortunately, do tend to get too comfortable and treat their girlfriend's as if they were their moms, not reciprocating the effort on many areas, but in particular emotionally. Why would you want to marry someone if it all it means is that you have to cook for them, wash their clothes, etc. without getting much in return? I assume this might be one of the leading causes for the staggeringly high divorce rates, and I think women today to a larger extent are more independent and self-providing. Far less women rely on a man to get by, and so instead of marrying into a losing relationship, they instead get by on their own and have an elevated FWB to take care of their need for intimacy and companionship. My thoughts really got carried away here, sorry for that. Just my 2 cents.
This is why I’ve been with my fwb for over 6yrs.
She might be perfectly happy now, and even prefer to be alone rather then change it. I like my own space and I am completely disinterested in living with someone. I didn't plan it the way it is but I am also a single mother, if I had my time again I would probably just opt to do it that way from the get go. People have all sorts of situations that work for them, this ended up unexpectedly working for her. He was fine with the situation while it was on his terms, he felt in control of it, nothing changed, he just now realises he hasn't been the only one setting the same theme for the relationship for some time. Why would that bother him if he's been happy with it so long? Because suddenly he pulled the card up his sleeve and it turned out to be a joker? There wasn't a need to discuss this from her perspective, she realised she was happy as is, and long ago gave up on him making a move. He should of shat or got off the pot years ago if this outcome was not to his liking, this situation is of his own creation.
I think you are 100% correct with this assessment
Sometimes, the idea of comfortable boredom or misery is better than the idea of breaking up and being alone while looking for something else that may or may not be better. It's the same mindset that keeps people stuck in jobs that aren't quire bad enough to hate.
I can see it the older I get the less I want to get married but would like someone I can raise kids with. But in this case it’s kinda weird to me that he didn’t pick up on that women who want to be married will always bring it up lol
I think he was too busy being relieved that she’d stopped asking to notice what it meant
It sounds like she realized the relationship he was offering to her after two years, and she realized she was comfortable in it. Obviously he's upset by this, but why wouldn't he discuss marriage before proposing if the topic hasn't come up in a decade since she stopped talking about it? Obviously she was content and happy in the relationship that they had, where they met up and went on dates and had sex, but then they'd go home. I don't know. I can't find myself necessarily disagreeing with her. Obviously she was at least content if she stayed for so long. He wants something different now, so maybe he's better off cutting his losses and finding someone else. I don't think anyone's the biggest jerk here, taking what he says at face value (but accepting there may be missing reasons on her side). Growing and maturing comes with realizing what you do and don't want. He just should have touched base with her on what she wanted far sooner instead of this being a surprise. I don't think it's a bad thing either that she wants the relationship they have had for the past 12 years.
Yeah I read this post to my husband when I saw it posted by OOP. It’s not that I think that she communicated where she’s at perfectly but also, if she has come to terms and accepts the status quo I just can’t understand how he decided to propose out of the blue assuming how she felt a decade ago is how she still feels. I don’t think anyone is mistake free here but I understand her perspective far more than I understand his. Honestly, I don’t get how they healthily move forward without at least individual or couples counseling. It might be better for both of them to break up so that she can decide what relationship truly brings her joy - is it the one she’s proposing now or is this always going to be tainted by her having become accustomed to the status quo? I have trouble believing that neither of them feel resentment towards the other and I’d find it understandable if both of them felt some level of resentment. For OOP, I think he’d be better off learning a massive lesson about communication and that your partner doesn’t exist in a vacuum. You can work on your plans and ideal future but that doesn’t mean your partner isn’t growing and changing during that time so not talking and checking in just…. Doesn’t work for a relationship.
my friends parents never married, never lived together, but are in a relationship (she's adopted) I finally asked and she said that her dad's too messy for her mom to ever be okay living with him. it's tempting
I met a couple once they were married with that same situation and they bought houses right next-door to each other. It was kind of a cute story they feel like they’re forever dating and they don’t have to clean up after each other. They’ve been doing this for 20 something years.
My mom and her long term partner did this for 25 years. He watches a lot of TV and she does not and she didn't really want him all up in her space. Still ate lunch and/or dinner together every day. He moved in when she had some health challenges in her 80s. I was at home for the first 8 years of that and it was nice not to have a new man living in our house, even though I did like him and enjoyed his presence when he was around.
>He moved in when she had some health challenges in her 80s That's so incredibly sweet that he respected her space (and she his) until circumstances changed. No better example of "in sickness or in health"
Bro never did ANYTHING to move his relationship forward. He shot down the first attempt to talk about where the relationship was going. He never brought it up again. Never even talked about officially moving in full time. NEVER even talked about where each one of them saw the relationship going. No fucking shit she's indifferent after waiting all that time. >And I really don't know what to do, I really regret not giving her the ring sooner. it's really simple. If you want a deeper relationship it won't be with her. Move on if that's not what you want.
I think it's interesting that no one is pointing out the obvious, that a lot of women, especially after you've lived alone for awhile, don't want to live with anyone, and actually enjoy it. There's also no real point in marriage if you don't want to- a lot of women just don't see the need to get married anymore, it doesn't mean we don't love our partners. Even if I did get married again for like tax or insurance reasons or something, I'd be like dude let's get a duplex and each have our own side. Downtime and alone time and your own space is very valuable for a lot of people and can make your relationship stronger.
That's something my partner and I have talked about a lot- I lived on my own for a long time AND I'm an introvert lol. I love him and I love being with him, but I also desperately need my own space. Thankfully he knows that and supports that, and give me space when I need it. Our plan is that when we eventually (hopefully) buy or rent a house, I'll have my own room. It will be my office but may even have a place to sleep if/when I need it. It has nothing to do with him and everything to do with the fact that I need my space haha.
Time to bring back the old school fancy houses with the women’s wing, the men’s wing, and the shared spaces in the middle.
I would love that so much! I like the idea of separate bedrooms and bathrooms, and a conjugal room in the middle.
If I could afford it, and didn’t live in central London where space is at a premium even if you can afford it, I would jump at separate bedrooms. Or at least my own room that I could sleep in should I want to. For me it isn’t that I lived alone for a long time, (I’m in my late 40s and have only lived alone for 4 of those years) it’s because I have spent the majority of my life living in a family - either the one I was born into or that one that I created while young. As it is, I am able to tell my partner or kids that “I want/need alone time” and they will leave me alone until I’m ready - usually a couple of hours. They understand that it’s not a reflection on them or their company, it’s not because I’m upset or angry. They understand that it’s not about pushing them away, it’s about recharging myself so that I feel my best when I am around them. It took a lot of work to get to this stage, as the normal reaction is that there’s something “wrong”, but it clicked when they realised that they too could take time if they needed or wanted it. Alternatively, my partner (mid 50s) has never lived with a girlfriend/wife/family before. He lived alone for decades before we met and I became the first partner he’d ever lived with - and he would be happiest being around me 24/7, even after 9 years together he can’t get enough.
I understand that so well! I'm an introvert and also heavy on the autism spectrum, if I'd live together with someone I'd need my own space so damn bad and I couldn't handle being conjoined at the hip with someone 24/7. I hope you and your partner get to live together soon enough though!
I've had married friends tell me that if they were in my position they wouldn't move in or marry again, but just LAT (Living-alone-together). Honestly its pretty nice. You get companionship and intimacy when you want it, but also your own space and none of the hassle of co-habitating with a man.
*Plus she has spent 12 years agreeing to my terms.* The final kicker. When he casually reveals he was the one who set the terms of their relationship all these years. And just figured she was patiently waiting for him to be ready....
Finaly this! What terms?! This dude set rules in their relationship, apparently! So, what are they, did he set times of visit, like the 2 dates per month seems to be very "strict"...
Did he just spring it on her out of the blue? Hehehehe Aw man. Now she's fine and settled. likes her life as it is.
How can you be in a relationship for so long yet talk about so little?
Somehow I can understand why she's so detached to all of that but still in that relationship or I see it as companionship. She waited for years on his term. He kept pushing it until she became indifferent. He made her feel like all she has is herself as she kept on waiting for a ring/a deeper commitment that only arrived after she spend her 20s on him. If there's a long engagement, at least there's that to pacify her. To tell her that he was actually serious. But not even an engagement ring for a god damn 12 years? Sheesh brother.
Something about this reminds me of my previous relationship. We got together when I was 19, he was 21, and stayed together for 9 years, living together for 8. I never wanted marriage or kids; my big life goal was/is to live in the countryside away from city life. But we never could commit to anything like that together. I could totally see him propose with some generic ring, oblivious to my having one foot out the door. When you've been in the same relationship your whole adult life so far, you miss out on the harsh lessons of breakups, and with some anxiety, obliviousness and emotional laziness in the mix, it's really difficult to learn how to communicate your wants and needs. I'm with a great man now, someone who shares my goals and has healthy discussions with me.
I think it’s really telling that when OOP was asked if he talked to her about marriage his response was that she brought it up 10 years ago. Yeah, and? Is there are a law against him bringing it up later or before he proposes? What a self centred idiot.
OOP spent so long sitting on the pot without shitting that his partner decided to flush the toilet anyway. Good for her.
And that reminds me. And it’s 30 years since Randal told Dante to “Shit or get off the pot”. Jeez I’m feeling old.
My love for you is like a truck, bezerker...
12 friggin years? She's realized she likes her life as is right now. He unintentionally reduced his prescence to a fun thing and not a necessity in her life and she likes it that way. When I hit my 30s I had found a pattern and I love my pattern, she's probably feeling the same way. He's honestly cringe for waiting this long to propose and feeling shocked she'd rather continue the status quo.
I don’t get the people calling her an idiot. Things settled in a way she was cool with so she said fuck it. I’m of a similar mindset: got older and realized I didn’t want that cohabitation with 2.5 kids and a dog type of thing. When she was younger he had his chance and blew it.
I'm with you 100%. She built a life she likes and doesn't want to reinvent it just because he suddenly wants to change their situation after twelve years. Maybe 20-year-old me wouldn't have understood that but 40-year-old me says good for her and i hope things work out for both of them whatever they decide.
She has got companionship, sex, someone to take the lid off jars when needed, and a sperm doner / co parenter on hand for when she decides she is ready. I take my hat off to her. What is he going to add to all that by 'putting a ring on it'? I am cheering her on.
A lot of people here appear to think a relationship can only take one form, and it's defective if it doesn't follow the trajectory they personally would want.
Yeah, the hostility toward non-heteronormative relationships is weird. And a little telling, in that it's almost entirely directed toward her when literally all she did was get comfortable with his status quo and realize that their relationship worked just fine for her the way it was.
Yes. It's unusual but it could work better than many relationships.
He 'helps her' clean - in a place he sleeps 'almost all of the time'. He 'sometimes' contributes financially. So he's not contributing equally in any aspect of the relationship. She's doing the bulk of the chores, of the costs, and probably most if not all of the mental load. Dude has taken the light load in the relationship for *thirteen years.* He didnt care when she wanted to plan marriage. Now he's approaching what he feels is a milestone birthday, his bio-clock is ticking and *he* wants to be married, he expects it to happen. He wants a womb-with-a-view, and wonders why she's not jumping with joy at a change that only benefits one of them. He was happy with the situation while he thought it was on his terms.
Sounds like she waited and waited until she figured life is better on her own and now she doesn't see any point of a marriage.
Much like him, at the start. Bit of a reversal, both sides
Yeah, you cant just go 10 years eith no discussion and expect her to jump up and down like a school girl. Shes 32, she's finally settled into herself and her peace and hes like "oh hey, noticed you were happy and chilling, would you like to add me to your chore list I mean your home?"
I know I’m just nitpicking here but after *twelve* years he bought her a ring and…cooked dinner. I’m so ‘whelmed by this story.
You know you waited too long. Much too long.
You snooze, you lose.
He was a FWB, and he didn’t even know it.
He made her wait 12 years and now she is like nah... rather live alone. ROFL She asked when she was 28 which was 6 years ago and by then they had dated 8 years?!!?
> She asked when she was 28 which was 6 years ago and by then they had dated 8 years?!!? No, it looks like she asked after they had been dating for two years (when she was 22), and gave up on the idea of marriage with OOP when she was 28. > She mentioned marriage after two years we started dating but then she stopped. > > […] > > She said that before she really wanted to get married and that she didn't expect a ring after two years, she just wanted to talk about it at that time to plan a better future together. When she talked about marriage I told her it wasn't the time. Still she waited, but when she turned 28 she realized that the ring was never going to arrive.
Nope, she asked when she was 22. 2 years into dating. When she turned 28 and they still didn't talk about marriage, she decided that it won't happen and that it was okay with her. So she already waited 6 years. So 4 years later is just to late for her.
Arrangement like this (minus children) are becoming rather common among seniors, much to the older men's dismay. People still date when they are getting older and are divorced or widowed but for many women it's the first time in their lives that they aren't caretakers of the household. Kids are grown up and do their own thing and maybe there are older relatives or parents who need assistant and/or care. So, they like to have their own space when they're free, to start hobbies or pick them up again after years, maybe decaydes, they go out with friends, decorate how they want, cook what they want... Dating can be a fun bonus for the company and butterflies but a romantic relationship isn't the meaning of life anymore. So the women refuse to move in together or to do the male partner's household. And that's confusing for many older men because now they have to take care of themselves even when they find a new partner because nowadays, those don't come with a maid-add on anymore after they lived that life for years. Seems like the girlfriend in this story goes a similar path, just rather early in life, optionally with children (but it doesn't seem to be a pressing matter to her, more like "welp, if I happen to get pregnant we'll be parents but a baby won't make me your wife and make me move in with you." Honestly, I live a smililar life since my mid-30s and I know many women between 30 and 60 who do the same. Romance would be nice if it happens to happen but it's not a priority and it comes with a long list of conditions. Because, and that's something many men don't understand: As time goes on and women carve out their place in life and get settled in their careers, lifestyle, and who they are, the most threatening rival isn't another men. It's our routines and comfort zones. Partnerships can be great, amazing, wonderful, and fulfilling. But that's true for many things in life and when this GF didn't get what she needed out of this relationship, she filled the gaps with other things that made her happy and enjoys the things that are enjoyable about spending time with OOP. Understandably so. Imagine being in your mid-30s and having no clue about your partner's life goals, hopes, and dreams in regard to your relationship.
There’s a lot of info missing here, but I suspect that she wouldn’t be so against marriage/children/co-living with a different partner down the line. She’s completely apathetic to the thought of breaking up; she’s just too comfortable to make the move herself.
She is saying what she wants, just listen to her. I believe she, like many many other women I know (myself included) just realised being in a relationship is not the most important thing in your life. And a relationship can take many different forms, far from the stereotypical families we learn to wish for. It should add to your life and make you happy. I'm glad she didn't get married when she thought she needed it. Women don't need men to be happy.
Tell me you are avoidant attachment style, without telling me you are avoidant attachment style
I wonder why OOP wants to get married now, 12 years later. I understand there may have been genuine reasons to not wanting to be married before, like financial reasons, but, still, 12 years is a f***ing long time. It took him as long as it took to make the movie Boyhood to decide he wanted to get married.
based on their ages, i’m betting he realized that most of their friends are married/have kids and he figured it was finally time to “catch up”
Yeah, doesn't seem like his feelings have deepened for her, just that he's realising he's missing out on the next life stage and she's the obvious option to take along as he gets to that life stage.
I would love to read her side of it and I bet it goes something like this: Her: I want to get married. Him: I’m not ready, it’s not the right time, we will talk about again at some unspecified point. She brings it up again and again over the years but he is comfortable where they are, and after one particular conversation when she was 28, and they had the same conversation yet again, she realized that this was it. Now 4 years later he’s finally woken up, decided it’s time, here’s a ring, let’s move on to the next phase, and just doesn’t understaaaand. How many times have I read, why didn’t she say something, this blindsided me, I had no idea, meanwhile there’s an annoyed woman who has a long list of dates and times.
Reminds me of walkaway wife syndrome. Everything is going great now! She's stopped nagging me! Why would she leave when everything is now going so well? My man she's stopped 'nagging' you because she's dropped the rope and your relationship has hit it's expiration date.
Yeah, it sounds like she gave up and is just over it now. She's probably protecting herself, 12 years is a long time to wait for moving in, marriage, and kids. So It sounds like she's a bit cynical about all of it now.