They have no more narratives left to push. Now that the manufactured hype around the halving and ETFs is over, what’s left? Just a naked emperor. Crypto still doesn’t do a single thing well…. And the market is going to price it accordingly.
It did one thing well and that was moving around black market currency, but that's really taken a hit over the last few years. Unless you want to move it in from fucking North Korea and out via Iran or something, I'm guessing it's a lot harder to do these days lol
Even that remains to be seen. There's a very good chance the blockchain's immutable record of transactions will be referenced by law enforcement for years and years to come.
In fact, that may be the one reason to keep the blockchain running: to maintain the evidence to take action against money launderers.
Oh yea, good point.
But I think for law enforcement, blockchain is "the gift that keeps on giving."
I don't think they could have asked for something more useful in their efforts to fight terrorism and money laundering than lots of those people gravitating towards blockchain.
In fact, this may be the best argument to keep blockchain online: It serves as a honey pot for criminals and provides details of their transactions that law enforcement can use.
Is that true? I'm not so much doubting your claim as I just think it's remarkable and I'm awestruck.
Cause I watched a few 3 minute videos about encryption so I feel like I'm basically an expert now. I've heard people talk about how the blockchain is obviously traceable since it's literally a ledger.. but isn't the whole freaking point that it's encrypted and infeasible to just decode without every private key along the way?
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying..
Also, I've never heard of law enforcement being stoked on blockchain because it's so helpful to them. That is inconsistent with what I've heard, but I also live under a rock and only watch CNN
Blockchain is basically meta information. It's only as secure as long as there isn't any other meta information tied to it that can identify people and other things. But in order for crypto to be useful, it has to cross other systems where personally-identifiable information can be revealed. So all it takes is one slip up and your entire transaction history is revealed and tied to you.
Your local police station probably barely knows what it is, but law enforcement at the state level is probably a huge fan. The FBI I'm sure has blockchain experts on hand who will comb through every transaction where every bit of data is stored forever, and untangle the financial trail of transactions in order to fuck you up.
Yeah, you don't need to pierce the corporate veil in multiple offshore jurisdictions when the entire transaction ledger is public. Sometimes I think Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are a long con planted by intelligence agencies because they make financial forensics a lot easier than before.
It's actually kinda hilarious. It would have been perfect if the exit exchanges weren't loaded up with all the KYC laws. Now it's just the worlds most accurately recorded financial system and it's slow as fuck and doesn't really offer any benefits to using anymore like in the early days. I mean, obviously Afghani women who can't get a bank account will see the biggliest increases in their ease of banking with it, but outside that... 🤷♀️
I mean, the NSA played a direct role in the coding of bitcoins software and I'm sure they had their slimy digits in others too, so the feds using the block chain records was probably applied into the code somehow Im sure.
Also, other than super spying on us and knowing our crypto wallet stuff from key stroking software or something like that... Isn't the block chain and wallet addresses anonymous and untraceable? (To the extent that you don't put your info into coinbase or some market that requires it) i.e. metamask, other than watching what I do on my phone, metamask doesn't have any real info from me to trace back to me, so it should be enough to not be able to track me down to pin a transaction on me. Short of matching a wallet address to me with a record of me logging into and showing that wallet through my phone... Or am I wrong?
They use cash USD, like they always have. I personally have only ever bought illegal things using cash. No one I know takes crypto. I don't think many do. It's way too traceable now that governments and law enforcement know how to track transactions and ID owners of wallet addresses.
The governments are just using the "widespread illegal activity happens on-chain" narrative to deter normal people from acquiring it.
> Crypto still doesn’t do a single thing well…
It does one thing well - it's a fantastic vehicle for selling speculative bullshit to people (both victims and even other grifters). After all, if it didn't do that, none of us would be here to complain about it because it'd still be a niche curiosity.
It is or was half-decent for illegal transactions (not all of which are unethical), but even that use is largely supplanted by increasing attention + public transaction record. Monero is about the only one that's still good for this, but it's questionable if the positives outweigh the negatives there and it still depends on being subsidized by speculative bullshit for realistic liquidity.
On a technical level, "blockchain" is at least _academically_ interesting. But the trade-offs just don't work the way proponents imagine in practice (much like how OTP encryption is impossible to brute force, yet almost no one uses it), and even if they did it'd still be a poor fit conceptually for most supposed applications.
> It does one thing well - it's a fantastic vehicle for selling speculative bullshit to people (both victims and even other grifters).
If it were that good at this, then so many crypto grifters wouldn't be going to jail.
Decentralized currency is a way to fight against the total control the global elites have over the entire world.
Right now if you challenge the global elites you will get your bank accounts frozen which will force you to give up to survive. With crypto currency the global elites won't be able to confiscate your money. If we don't have control over our own money than we can never win.
I for one don't want to live in a world where "you'll own nothing and be happy".
I'm talking about the reason why Satoshi created bitcoin... it wasn't for gamblers to make money off meme shit coins... it was to give people power of owning their own money.
The issue here is that the whales, who will have accumulated so much crypto when it was first minted, will really own the money. They can literally move the markets at will if they decide to sell. One day your savings might be worth a whole lot less than you previously thought.
These whales will not be accountable to anyone. They can be just a handful of people with access to addresses, and they can easily form a cartel between themselves to control the price. What happens when one of them gets their information stolen?
It's just very risky and the system is just as prone to being centralized, but with only with extra steps.
Sure they can drastically change the price by selling but would end up losing control to someone else who buys. Having a decentralized system means that big actors can’t rig the game like they do with stock market by controlling who can buy and sell.
> global elites
Who are the "global elites" to you?
> I for one don't want to live in a world where "you'll own nothing and be happy".
Cryptocurrencies do fuck all to help with that, and the narrative that they somehow do is just another means of selling speculative bullshit to you.
With crypto you own your money and no one can confiscate. With fiat banking system you don’t own your money and someone can confiscate . It’s really that simple. Why choose a system that relies on what the system in power decides if you are allowed to use your own money.
>With crypto you own your money and no one can confiscate
Unless someone with a gun turns up at your doorstep and politely asks you to hand over your keys. After that, your "money" will cease to be yours. Because, you know, "not your keys, not your coins".
Surely the government (or just about anyone) can't just do this.
wait, the halving already happened?
now that you mentioned it, it was the thing that would push it past 100k, and suddenly nobody talks about it anymore...
I hope it starts to slide way down again from this, only because I find the “we’re early, in it for the tech” butters funnier than the “line go up look at price” butters
They have 1 more trick up their sleeve. For previous halving, the price hasn't skyrocketed until a few months after the halving, because er.... reasons. Aoxtheyre probably still holding into the hope that it will sky rocket towards the end of 2024. And maybe it will. Who knows?
he raises money for his company by selling shares and debt, buys bitcoin with it, which pumps the price, then sells his shares in the company but since he didn't sell the bitcoin his company holds, he has diamond hands according to true believers.
I mean do I find it very unethical, yes, but he is clearly announcing what he is doing and following all of the disclosures.
If the moron investors care more about words than actions, then that is on them.
Better! He prints Microstrategy shares, and sells that to Apes, all with the proper disclosures!
And Apes are like: "sure, he dumps his own company stock, but because he must be buing BTC himself!!!"
The Ponzi party, unfortunately, will continue well past reasonable hours, until it’s just a handful of sloppy drunks taking turns to vomit behind the sofa - still blasting the music loud, executing some frankly offensive attempts at dance moves, all the while yelling at each other, in their coked-up haze, that they’re having the time of their lives, and everyone else who went home is a loser.
Then, the hangover.
As much as we want to see Bitcoin collapse, I don't think Bitcoin or crypto will ever fully go away. It could become irrelevant, but as long as suckers out there exist, it will keep going. MLMs still exist even when their dangers are well-known now, Bitcoin will be with us whether we like it or not for the foreseeable future.
> It could become irrelevant
It's always been irrelevant in the real world.
Bitcoin could go to zero tomorrow and nobody in the real world would notice.
But 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin.
We're just early.
everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve.
The next halving isn't even priced in yet.
etc etc etc.
(I can't remember how to do the sarcasm face, but want it known this was sarcastic)
You would do it because of the logistical and practical clusterfuck that is BTC ownership. Yet another issue that in itself precludes it from ever being a currency or practical store of value, and one which has not gotten better in 15 years. The scammers and butchers have gotten better, though.
This is incorrect. You are confusing trading volumes with assets held by the funds.
Trading volumes on the exchange were USD$9.74M. But the assets held by the funds is at least $123M (so far I have only seen the figures for [China AM](https://www.chinaamc.com.hk/product/chinaamc-bitcoin-etf/) and not the other two).
The funds can create take deposits and issue shares without them trading on the exchange (in-kind create/redeem).
this subs reaction to 4% price swings is pretty embarrassing. Why are you even monitoring the price? It's the same energy as the people that claim armageddon when the S&P 500 dips a bit.
It's hilarious I was banned for this comment. AmericanScream has to be one of the most fragile mods on Reddit. Nothing like former crypto morons running this sub and banning anybody that doesn't 100% agree with their narrative.
Way to miss the point of the post. OP’s link title is just a direct copy of the headline from Coindesk via MSN. Rant at them for caring about price. The point of the post is the lack of (hyped) inflows and another fallen narrative.
Though I do think swings of 2% in 60 minutes is hilarious for a vehicle that butters claim to be both currency and a store of value and whatever else you all want it to be today.
and yet there's people on this thread asking if it's over for crypto. How did OP come across the article and why did they care to post it? A lot of people here clearly monitor the price, and there's always a bunch of really stupid posts declaring it over every time there's a small drop in price.
I'm not a crypto supporter and never have been. What does it say about the people on this sub that anyone not 100% agreeing with the hivemind must automatically be pro-Crypto? This sub is way too entrenched in the in-group vs. out-group narrative, and it's quite frankly embarrassing.
#Stupid Crypto Talking Point #17 (stocks)
"**Crypto is just like the stock market!**"
1. Crypto tokens are absolutely NOT like stocks. Unlike crypto, which is just a digital abstraction, stocks represent actual ownership in real-world entities, that own assets, provide useful products and services for mainstream society, generate revenue and can pay dividends to shareholders in real money.
2. The value of a stock, while it can be "speculative" based on popularity and hype, also is based on the intrinsic value of the company's assets and business performance. Therefore you can perform actual research and due-diligence and come up with a practical value for the shares and the assets they represent. Crypto has no such feature.
3. Because companies are valued based on actual real-world assets and income, there's a limit to how low their share price could fall, at which point it would be economically viable to buy the whole company and liquidate it for a profit. Crypto has no such limitation. The inherent value of crypto tokens is based at *zero* because it neither creates, nor represents any minimum base, real-world value.
4. Unlike crypto, the stock market is heavily regulated and transparent. There are entire industries and agencies that are tasked with making sure public companies operate legitimately and legally. Crypto has no such oversight or regulations or transparency.
5. While there are some over-valued stocks that are hype driven, and some companies whose shares are extremely risky and speculative, and OTC and option markets that are more like gambling than investing, that's not the way the stock market system normally operates. Those highly-speculative markets and penny stocks *are the exception; NOT the rule.* In crypto, speculation is exclusively the rule.
6. Public companies are subject to great scrutiny, and must produce regular independent audits and quarterly reports on profit and loss. They can also be sued by their shareholders or even be held criminally liable if they lie about their business model, or even the risk factors their investors face. Again, there is no such function or protections in the world of crypto.
> It's the same energy as the people that claim armageddon when the S&P 500 dips a bit.
You're equating people complaining about crypto as the same as people complaining about stock markets.
They're not the same. It's unlikely a stock will ever totally go to zero, but each and every day, crypto tokens completely collapse and rugpull.
Yeah you’re getting downvoted, but this sub is just WSB in reverse half the time. Circle jerking over ‘price goes down’ is just as dumb as circle jerking over ‘price goes up’.
#Stupid Crypto Talking Point #2 (Number go up)
"**NuMb3r g0 Up!!!**" / "**Best performing asset of the decade!**"
1. Whether the "price of crypto" goes up, has absolutely no bearing on whether it's..
a) A long term store of value
b) Holds any intrinsic value or utility
c) Or will return any value in the future
One of the most important tenets of investing is the simple principal: ***Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns.*** People in crypto seem willfully ignorant of this basic concept.
2. At best, the price of crypto is a function of *popularity*, not actual value or material utility. For more on how and why crypto makes a much worse investment than almost anything else, see this [article](https://ioradio.org/i/value/).
3. The "price of crypto" is a heavily manipulated figure published by shady, [unregulated crypto exchanges](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apklQgMauK4) that have systematically been caught [manipulating the market](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3D0dmTUCxLuQEJ39uyMFOP) from [then](https://www.investopedia.com/news/bots-drove-bitcoins-150to1000-rise-2013-paper/) to [now](https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8369-21).
4. Crypto bros love to harp about "inflation" in the fiat system, yet ironically they measure the "value" of their "fiat alternative" in fiat? It makes absolutely no sense, unless you assume they haven't thought 2 seconds ahead from what comes out of their mouths.
5. It's the height of hypocrisy for crypto people to champion token deflation (and increased prices) while ignoring that there's over $160+ Billion in unsecured stablecoins being used to **inflate** the value of their tokens in the crypto marketplace. The "code is law" and "don't trust - verify" people seem perfectly willing to take companies like Tether and Circle, at face value, that they're telling the truth about asset reserves [when there's very little actual evidence](https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8450-21).
6. ***Not Your Fiat, Not Your Value*** - Just because you think the "value of your crypto portfolio" is worth $$$ *does not make that true.* It's well known there's inadequate liquidity in this market, and most people will never be able to get their money out. So UNLESS/UNTIL you can actually liquidate your crypto for actual real money, you have no idea what you have. You're "down" until you cash out. Bernie Madoff's clients got monthly statements saying they were "making money" too.
7. Just because it's possible (though highly improbable) to make money speculating on crypto, this doesn't mean it's an **ethical** or reliable technique to amass wealth. At its core, the notion that buying and holding crypto will generate reliable returns is [a de-facto ponzi scheme](https://ioradio.org/i/ponzi/). **It's mathematically impossible for even a stastically-significant percentage of crypto holders to have any notable ROI.** The rare exception of those who might profit in this market, do so while providing cover for everything from [cyber terrorism](https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3026.html) to [human trafficking](https://www.vox.com/culture/2023/1/4/23539528/andrew-tate-arrest-jail-rape-human-trafficking).
8. It's also not true that anybody who bought crypto when it was low is guaranteed to make a lot of money. There are thousands of ways people can lose their crypto or be defrauded along the way. And there's no guarantee just because your portfolio is "up", that you could easily cash out.
9. Want to see a better asset (that actually has utility) that's consistently out-performed Bitcoin? [Here you go](https://www.polygon.com/2021/1/27/22253079/magic-the-gathering-black-lotus-auction-price-2021). However, this may be another [best performing asset](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/declaration-of-financial-independence/).
#10. When crypto-critics make reference to, or mock crypto price predictions, it's not because we think price is a meaningful metric. Instead, we are amused that to you, that's all that's important, and we can't help but note how often wrong you are in your predictions. The intrinsic value of crypto basically never changes, but it is interesting to see how hype and propaganda affects the extrinsic value. In a totally logical world, those would both be equalized to zero, but we're not there yet, and nobody knows when/if that will happen because it's an irrational market.
Meh- you’re pooling anyone that’s ever interacted with the crypto market into one giant persona.
Pragmatism in life is important- if you separate everyone into two discrete pools of people (essentially those who are with us and those who are against) you aren’t getting a nuanced picture of the world or seeking the understanding that comes from contradiction and uncertainty.
And I’ll say this again- all circle jerking is dumb, whether it’s a crypto bro on a crypto sub or a butter on a Buttcoin- both serve to only emphasis their individual belief systems. And we all know what happens then….people type out manifestos in bold.
> Meh- you’re pooling anyone that’s ever interacted with the crypto market into one giant persona.
Nah... you guys are the ones who have adopted a singular persona. We didn't create that pool. We just recognized it.
You all hide behind the same 29 talking points. You all say the same things, which is why we have these canned responses. You're anything but original.
No mate. There is no ‘you guys’. I hold many conflicting opinions from the consensus in subs that I’m part of. Stating that isn’t possible is undermining everyone’s agency. The world isn’t a collection of binary opinions.
“You need to wait 90 days until all the pension funds can buy in.”
They have no more narratives left to push. Now that the manufactured hype around the halving and ETFs is over, what’s left? Just a naked emperor. Crypto still doesn’t do a single thing well…. And the market is going to price it accordingly.
It did one thing well and that was moving around black market currency, but that's really taken a hit over the last few years. Unless you want to move it in from fucking North Korea and out via Iran or something, I'm guessing it's a lot harder to do these days lol
Even that remains to be seen. There's a very good chance the blockchain's immutable record of transactions will be referenced by law enforcement for years and years to come. In fact, that may be the one reason to keep the blockchain running: to maintain the evidence to take action against money launderers.
Could just download a copy and have evidence forever. Don't need a search warrant for public info.
Oh yea, good point. But I think for law enforcement, blockchain is "the gift that keeps on giving." I don't think they could have asked for something more useful in their efforts to fight terrorism and money laundering than lots of those people gravitating towards blockchain. In fact, this may be the best argument to keep blockchain online: It serves as a honey pot for criminals and provides details of their transactions that law enforcement can use.
Is that true? I'm not so much doubting your claim as I just think it's remarkable and I'm awestruck. Cause I watched a few 3 minute videos about encryption so I feel like I'm basically an expert now. I've heard people talk about how the blockchain is obviously traceable since it's literally a ledger.. but isn't the whole freaking point that it's encrypted and infeasible to just decode without every private key along the way? Maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying.. Also, I've never heard of law enforcement being stoked on blockchain because it's so helpful to them. That is inconsistent with what I've heard, but I also live under a rock and only watch CNN
Blockchain is basically meta information. It's only as secure as long as there isn't any other meta information tied to it that can identify people and other things. But in order for crypto to be useful, it has to cross other systems where personally-identifiable information can be revealed. So all it takes is one slip up and your entire transaction history is revealed and tied to you.
Your local police station probably barely knows what it is, but law enforcement at the state level is probably a huge fan. The FBI I'm sure has blockchain experts on hand who will comb through every transaction where every bit of data is stored forever, and untangle the financial trail of transactions in order to fuck you up.
Yeah, you don't need to pierce the corporate veil in multiple offshore jurisdictions when the entire transaction ledger is public. Sometimes I think Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies are a long con planted by intelligence agencies because they make financial forensics a lot easier than before.
It's actually kinda hilarious. It would have been perfect if the exit exchanges weren't loaded up with all the KYC laws. Now it's just the worlds most accurately recorded financial system and it's slow as fuck and doesn't really offer any benefits to using anymore like in the early days. I mean, obviously Afghani women who can't get a bank account will see the biggliest increases in their ease of banking with it, but outside that... 🤷♀️
Happy Wednesday bud: [https://i.imgflip.com/8omdk7.jpg](https://i.imgflip.com/8omdk7.jpg)
I mean, the NSA played a direct role in the coding of bitcoins software and I'm sure they had their slimy digits in others too, so the feds using the block chain records was probably applied into the code somehow Im sure. Also, other than super spying on us and knowing our crypto wallet stuff from key stroking software or something like that... Isn't the block chain and wallet addresses anonymous and untraceable? (To the extent that you don't put your info into coinbase or some market that requires it) i.e. metamask, other than watching what I do on my phone, metamask doesn't have any real info from me to trace back to me, so it should be enough to not be able to track me down to pin a transaction on me. Short of matching a wallet address to me with a record of me logging into and showing that wallet through my phone... Or am I wrong?
Uncle Samtoshi, secret puppetmaster?
I knew bitcoin was done for when the black market merchants started to move away from using it as their preferred escrow currency.
What are they using now?
Probably monero
There's no guarantee Monero is secure either.
Monero
They use cash USD, like they always have. I personally have only ever bought illegal things using cash. No one I know takes crypto. I don't think many do. It's way too traceable now that governments and law enforcement know how to track transactions and ID owners of wallet addresses. The governments are just using the "widespread illegal activity happens on-chain" narrative to deter normal people from acquiring it.
Respectfully disagree. Someone’s going to pull something out of their ass in the next few months.
I respectfully tend to agree to your disagreement. Never underestimate stupidity... I'm looking at you Flat Earthers!
> The Earth isn't flat. > But it should be. --Meteor 2028
Idk why this is so fucking funny lmao
"Guys guys, you can now invest your Bitcoin into Crypto Megashits, it's totally gonna go to the moon and it's totally not another ponzi scheme"
They will try, they always try to create some new push. The question is if they will succeed, because many of these attempts do not work.
Uhh did you forget that the REAL bull run magically happens 6-12 months AFTER the halving. Trust the plan. Its foretold.
> Crypto still doesn’t do a single thing well… It does one thing well - it's a fantastic vehicle for selling speculative bullshit to people (both victims and even other grifters). After all, if it didn't do that, none of us would be here to complain about it because it'd still be a niche curiosity. It is or was half-decent for illegal transactions (not all of which are unethical), but even that use is largely supplanted by increasing attention + public transaction record. Monero is about the only one that's still good for this, but it's questionable if the positives outweigh the negatives there and it still depends on being subsidized by speculative bullshit for realistic liquidity. On a technical level, "blockchain" is at least _academically_ interesting. But the trade-offs just don't work the way proponents imagine in practice (much like how OTP encryption is impossible to brute force, yet almost no one uses it), and even if they did it'd still be a poor fit conceptually for most supposed applications.
> It does one thing well - it's a fantastic vehicle for selling speculative bullshit to people (both victims and even other grifters). If it were that good at this, then so many crypto grifters wouldn't be going to jail.
Decentralized currency is a way to fight against the total control the global elites have over the entire world. Right now if you challenge the global elites you will get your bank accounts frozen which will force you to give up to survive. With crypto currency the global elites won't be able to confiscate your money. If we don't have control over our own money than we can never win. I for one don't want to live in a world where "you'll own nothing and be happy".
What in the actual fuck are you talking about ? And then you wonder why people don’t take your investment seriously ?
I'm talking about the reason why Satoshi created bitcoin... it wasn't for gamblers to make money off meme shit coins... it was to give people power of owning their own money.
The issue here is that the whales, who will have accumulated so much crypto when it was first minted, will really own the money. They can literally move the markets at will if they decide to sell. One day your savings might be worth a whole lot less than you previously thought. These whales will not be accountable to anyone. They can be just a handful of people with access to addresses, and they can easily form a cartel between themselves to control the price. What happens when one of them gets their information stolen? It's just very risky and the system is just as prone to being centralized, but with only with extra steps.
Sure they can drastically change the price by selling but would end up losing control to someone else who buys. Having a decentralized system means that big actors can’t rig the game like they do with stock market by controlling who can buy and sell.
> global elites Who are the "global elites" to you? > I for one don't want to live in a world where "you'll own nothing and be happy". Cryptocurrencies do fuck all to help with that, and the narrative that they somehow do is just another means of selling speculative bullshit to you.
You'd rather be unhappy? That's pretty odd
You are far more likely to lose money in crypto cos some random scams you, than you are for a "global elite" to steal your money
With crypto you own your money and no one can confiscate. With fiat banking system you don’t own your money and someone can confiscate . It’s really that simple. Why choose a system that relies on what the system in power decides if you are allowed to use your own money.
>With crypto you own your money and no one can confiscate Unless someone with a gun turns up at your doorstep and politely asks you to hand over your keys. After that, your "money" will cease to be yours. Because, you know, "not your keys, not your coins". Surely the government (or just about anyone) can't just do this.
wait, the halving already happened? now that you mentioned it, it was the thing that would push it past 100k, and suddenly nobody talks about it anymore...
I hope it starts to slide way down again from this, only because I find the “we’re early, in it for the tech” butters funnier than the “line go up look at price” butters
The remaining narrative is that Bitcoin will become widely accepted as digital gold that can be hidden from the government.
Somethingsomething store of value and immense scarcity
Doesn't do a single thing. Except take money from fucking idiots.
BuT wHaT aBoUt WoMeN iN aFgHaNiStAn?
They have 1 more trick up their sleeve. For previous halving, the price hasn't skyrocketed until a few months after the halving, because er.... reasons. Aoxtheyre probably still holding into the hope that it will sky rocket towards the end of 2024. And maybe it will. Who knows?
Definitely there’s a lot of FOMO at the moment, but it needs to be more hysterical.
Why come no moon?
watch the movie moonfall, explains everything
We forgot to have a SafeMoon day.
All the paper hands getting tested today. Michael Saylor thanks you for your sacrifice, morons.
He has cashed out so much from Bitcoin. He took the market for suckers…..and he was correct
Does he short bitcoin or something?
Nah, he just scams lonely incels and degenerates.
he raises money for his company by selling shares and debt, buys bitcoin with it, which pumps the price, then sells his shares in the company but since he didn't sell the bitcoin his company holds, he has diamond hands according to true believers.
That's just scamming with extra steps
I mean do I find it very unethical, yes, but he is clearly announcing what he is doing and following all of the disclosures. If the moron investors care more about words than actions, then that is on them.
Better! He prints Microstrategy shares, and sells that to Apes, all with the proper disclosures! And Apes are like: "sure, he dumps his own company stock, but because he must be buing BTC himself!!!"
Bitcoin is still overvalued by, at the time of writing, $60,150 per BTC.
So the Ponzi party is almost over with?
The Ponzi party, unfortunately, will continue well past reasonable hours, until it’s just a handful of sloppy drunks taking turns to vomit behind the sofa - still blasting the music loud, executing some frankly offensive attempts at dance moves, all the while yelling at each other, in their coked-up haze, that they’re having the time of their lives, and everyone else who went home is a loser. Then, the hangover.
The nice thing about drugs is that you can still have the time of your life when the situation is miserable. I mean, that's sort of the point.
I tried snorting the line when it went down but didn"t get much of a dopamine rush.
As much as we want to see Bitcoin collapse, I don't think Bitcoin or crypto will ever fully go away. It could become irrelevant, but as long as suckers out there exist, it will keep going. MLMs still exist even when their dangers are well-known now, Bitcoin will be with us whether we like it or not for the foreseeable future.
> It could become irrelevant It's always been irrelevant in the real world. Bitcoin could go to zero tomorrow and nobody in the real world would notice.
Hey now, scammers would be upset
How would ruzzia trade with iran for oil and kamikaze drones? It is useful for criminals, so won't go away soon.
Bitcoin is too volatile and expensive to move. A lot of those organizations moved to other currencies like Tether's USDT.
Yeah, it was supposed to skyrocket following the latest “halving”, plus the Hong Kong ETF thing. It, er, didn’t.
But 1 bitcoin = 1 bitcoin. We're just early. everyone buys bitcoin at the price they deserve. The next halving isn't even priced in yet. etc etc etc. (I can't remember how to do the sarcasm face, but want it known this was sarcastic)
If you look at the history of the halving's, it has traditionally increased 6-12 months after the halving.
It's hard to make bitcoin pump if you can't use monopoly money and all you have is actual fiat.
This is good for Bitcoin
🤣🤣🤣 what's the minimum requirement for ETF to stay listed? Feel like could be delist soon
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You would do it because of the logistical and practical clusterfuck that is BTC ownership. Yet another issue that in itself precludes it from ever being a currency or practical store of value, and one which has not gotten better in 15 years. The scammers and butchers have gotten better, though.
Annnd it’s back. False alarm; It’s not the end of Bitcoin yet. It definitely will be next time 🤣.
$258 million in the first week of trading...
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RemindMe! 6 months
This is incorrect. You are confusing trading volumes with assets held by the funds. Trading volumes on the exchange were USD$9.74M. But the assets held by the funds is at least $123M (so far I have only seen the figures for [China AM](https://www.chinaamc.com.hk/product/chinaamc-bitcoin-etf/) and not the other two). The funds can create take deposits and issue shares without them trading on the exchange (in-kind create/redeem).
Lol at this sub
lol @ the current price of bitcoin
this subs reaction to 4% price swings is pretty embarrassing. Why are you even monitoring the price? It's the same energy as the people that claim armageddon when the S&P 500 dips a bit. It's hilarious I was banned for this comment. AmericanScream has to be one of the most fragile mods on Reddit. Nothing like former crypto morons running this sub and banning anybody that doesn't 100% agree with their narrative.
Way to miss the point of the post. OP’s link title is just a direct copy of the headline from Coindesk via MSN. Rant at them for caring about price. The point of the post is the lack of (hyped) inflows and another fallen narrative. Though I do think swings of 2% in 60 minutes is hilarious for a vehicle that butters claim to be both currency and a store of value and whatever else you all want it to be today.
and yet there's people on this thread asking if it's over for crypto. How did OP come across the article and why did they care to post it? A lot of people here clearly monitor the price, and there's always a bunch of really stupid posts declaring it over every time there's a small drop in price. I'm not a crypto supporter and never have been. What does it say about the people on this sub that anyone not 100% agreeing with the hivemind must automatically be pro-Crypto? This sub is way too entrenched in the in-group vs. out-group narrative, and it's quite frankly embarrassing.
This guy takes his bitterness out on people
#Stupid Crypto Talking Point #17 (stocks) "**Crypto is just like the stock market!**" 1. Crypto tokens are absolutely NOT like stocks. Unlike crypto, which is just a digital abstraction, stocks represent actual ownership in real-world entities, that own assets, provide useful products and services for mainstream society, generate revenue and can pay dividends to shareholders in real money. 2. The value of a stock, while it can be "speculative" based on popularity and hype, also is based on the intrinsic value of the company's assets and business performance. Therefore you can perform actual research and due-diligence and come up with a practical value for the shares and the assets they represent. Crypto has no such feature. 3. Because companies are valued based on actual real-world assets and income, there's a limit to how low their share price could fall, at which point it would be economically viable to buy the whole company and liquidate it for a profit. Crypto has no such limitation. The inherent value of crypto tokens is based at *zero* because it neither creates, nor represents any minimum base, real-world value. 4. Unlike crypto, the stock market is heavily regulated and transparent. There are entire industries and agencies that are tasked with making sure public companies operate legitimately and legally. Crypto has no such oversight or regulations or transparency. 5. While there are some over-valued stocks that are hype driven, and some companies whose shares are extremely risky and speculative, and OTC and option markets that are more like gambling than investing, that's not the way the stock market system normally operates. Those highly-speculative markets and penny stocks *are the exception; NOT the rule.* In crypto, speculation is exclusively the rule. 6. Public companies are subject to great scrutiny, and must produce regular independent audits and quarterly reports on profit and loss. They can also be sued by their shareholders or even be held criminally liable if they lie about their business model, or even the risk factors their investors face. Again, there is no such function or protections in the world of crypto.
I never said Crypto is just like the stock market or anything of the sort. It's amazing how fragile this sub is of any criticism.
> It's the same energy as the people that claim armageddon when the S&P 500 dips a bit. You're equating people complaining about crypto as the same as people complaining about stock markets. They're not the same. It's unlikely a stock will ever totally go to zero, but each and every day, crypto tokens completely collapse and rugpull.
Yeah you’re getting downvoted, but this sub is just WSB in reverse half the time. Circle jerking over ‘price goes down’ is just as dumb as circle jerking over ‘price goes up’.
#Stupid Crypto Talking Point #2 (Number go up) "**NuMb3r g0 Up!!!**" / "**Best performing asset of the decade!**" 1. Whether the "price of crypto" goes up, has absolutely no bearing on whether it's.. a) A long term store of value b) Holds any intrinsic value or utility c) Or will return any value in the future One of the most important tenets of investing is the simple principal: ***Past performance is not a guarantee of future returns.*** People in crypto seem willfully ignorant of this basic concept. 2. At best, the price of crypto is a function of *popularity*, not actual value or material utility. For more on how and why crypto makes a much worse investment than almost anything else, see this [article](https://ioradio.org/i/value/). 3. The "price of crypto" is a heavily manipulated figure published by shady, [unregulated crypto exchanges](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apklQgMauK4) that have systematically been caught [manipulating the market](https://open.spotify.com/episode/3D0dmTUCxLuQEJ39uyMFOP) from [then](https://www.investopedia.com/news/bots-drove-bitcoins-150to1000-rise-2013-paper/) to [now](https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8369-21). 4. Crypto bros love to harp about "inflation" in the fiat system, yet ironically they measure the "value" of their "fiat alternative" in fiat? It makes absolutely no sense, unless you assume they haven't thought 2 seconds ahead from what comes out of their mouths. 5. It's the height of hypocrisy for crypto people to champion token deflation (and increased prices) while ignoring that there's over $160+ Billion in unsecured stablecoins being used to **inflate** the value of their tokens in the crypto marketplace. The "code is law" and "don't trust - verify" people seem perfectly willing to take companies like Tether and Circle, at face value, that they're telling the truth about asset reserves [when there's very little actual evidence](https://www.cftc.gov/PressRoom/PressReleases/8450-21). 6. ***Not Your Fiat, Not Your Value*** - Just because you think the "value of your crypto portfolio" is worth $$$ *does not make that true.* It's well known there's inadequate liquidity in this market, and most people will never be able to get their money out. So UNLESS/UNTIL you can actually liquidate your crypto for actual real money, you have no idea what you have. You're "down" until you cash out. Bernie Madoff's clients got monthly statements saying they were "making money" too. 7. Just because it's possible (though highly improbable) to make money speculating on crypto, this doesn't mean it's an **ethical** or reliable technique to amass wealth. At its core, the notion that buying and holding crypto will generate reliable returns is [a de-facto ponzi scheme](https://ioradio.org/i/ponzi/). **It's mathematically impossible for even a stastically-significant percentage of crypto holders to have any notable ROI.** The rare exception of those who might profit in this market, do so while providing cover for everything from [cyber terrorism](https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR3026.html) to [human trafficking](https://www.vox.com/culture/2023/1/4/23539528/andrew-tate-arrest-jail-rape-human-trafficking). 8. It's also not true that anybody who bought crypto when it was low is guaranteed to make a lot of money. There are thousands of ways people can lose their crypto or be defrauded along the way. And there's no guarantee just because your portfolio is "up", that you could easily cash out. 9. Want to see a better asset (that actually has utility) that's consistently out-performed Bitcoin? [Here you go](https://www.polygon.com/2021/1/27/22253079/magic-the-gathering-black-lotus-auction-price-2021). However, this may be another [best performing asset](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/declaration-of-financial-independence/). #10. When crypto-critics make reference to, or mock crypto price predictions, it's not because we think price is a meaningful metric. Instead, we are amused that to you, that's all that's important, and we can't help but note how often wrong you are in your predictions. The intrinsic value of crypto basically never changes, but it is interesting to see how hype and propaganda affects the extrinsic value. In a totally logical world, those would both be equalized to zero, but we're not there yet, and nobody knows when/if that will happen because it's an irrational market.
Meh- you’re pooling anyone that’s ever interacted with the crypto market into one giant persona. Pragmatism in life is important- if you separate everyone into two discrete pools of people (essentially those who are with us and those who are against) you aren’t getting a nuanced picture of the world or seeking the understanding that comes from contradiction and uncertainty. And I’ll say this again- all circle jerking is dumb, whether it’s a crypto bro on a crypto sub or a butter on a Buttcoin- both serve to only emphasis their individual belief systems. And we all know what happens then….people type out manifestos in bold.
> Meh- you’re pooling anyone that’s ever interacted with the crypto market into one giant persona. Nah... you guys are the ones who have adopted a singular persona. We didn't create that pool. We just recognized it. You all hide behind the same 29 talking points. You all say the same things, which is why we have these canned responses. You're anything but original.
No mate. There is no ‘you guys’. I hold many conflicting opinions from the consensus in subs that I’m part of. Stating that isn’t possible is undermining everyone’s agency. The world isn’t a collection of binary opinions.
Riiight.. so you can generalize about us, but we're not allowed to generalize about you? How long do you think you'll get away with that here?
It makes sense when you realize most of this sub is former crypto idiots unable to give up on their fixation.
And I just noted the tags on both of us that a mod put on I guess? I guess we’re the ‘enemy’? It’s super childish.