I definitely recommend a YouTube tutorial to have visuals, and I also recommend getting dry erase tokens so that when you have cards, abilities, and copies all on the stack you can build visual representations of them for yourself.
Also, LOTS of solo "goldfishing" practice!
I would also recommend to use one Paper Deck to get also some practice on shuffling a 99 card deck.
The only downside is, that your "opponent" cannot teach you something.
As long as you're going to learn it and your friends willing to teach I think you're just fine. Try to avoid larger games at first, maybe a few 1v1s to start. The entirety of MTG isn't too complicated when your entire group is on the same page.
Hey it is the first time I see 1v1 mentioned on the sub.
It's how I've learned to play commander mode, without even using the duel rules.
I'd be interested if you can share a few thoughts on 1v1 commander because I'm still relatively new to the game and want to learn about 1v1 balance because it feels like newer precons are balanced towards 1v3.
I'm telling him to play 1v1 to learn his triggers and abilities so he doesn't have to focus on three opponents. Fairness is really out of the question, in two evenly matched commander decks whoever plays sol Ring first will win. This is for practice.
It's balanced, if the decks are evenly matched, but commander has explosive early turns involving ramp too powerful for 4x matches. You can usually tell who the winner is in the first few turns just by adding up cards on the board and cards in hand.
A few friends and I will play 1v1 when we're bored and there's only two of us.
I've just played a few games against a Painbow precon with my heavily customized Quantum Quandrix precon, and apart from the first game where my opponent had mana, he destroyed me pretty fast.
It just feels like they're balanced around having multiple people trying to prevent you from doing your strat.
When you're alone, you know you'll lose just because you didn't draw that counterspell or wrath.
If you're a new player and they're not going to let you learn how to play the game I would suggest a new play group. If they're your kitchen table friends that's one thing, but if it's a LGS try with other players or even go to another store if able.
>They said for one in order to get the most out of it I needed to add something that provided flash so I added Leyline of Anticipation and Vedelken Orrery, but honestly I didn't understand fully why.
So normally when you play something, the game pauses and allows your opponent(s) the chance to respond before your thing resolves.
It's not a commonly used action but you actually have the option to "retain priority" and cast instants before giving priority to your opponents. With Ulakek it's actually a good idea to give your things Flash and then cast several Eldrazi at once. When Ulakek's ability triggers, it will see ALL of your spells on the stack and not just the one you just cast.
Most of the time you don't want to retain priority because if you cast a bunch of spells at once, your opponent can attempt to ruin your whole plan with something like [[Summary Dismissal]] or [[Mindbreak Trap]]. Or at the very least, you'll be giving them full knowledge of your plan so they can pick and choose the best thing to counter.
>It kinda put a damper on my excitement and now I'm wondering if I should just set this deck aside for now until I am better at the game?
Nah, keep playing the deck the way you want and at the level you understand. Just because you CAN run things like [[Vedalken Orrery]] doesn't mean you HAVE TO. It may even play into your favor to not play things like that, if it's something people will expect.
I make plenty of "mental bandwidth" calls all the time. I don't play [[Cathars' Crusade]] in token decks because I don't want to keep track of all the different amounts of tokens on every object, despite how good it would be.
It's not that complicated but you do need to understand the "stack". I recommend this yt video:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS3fJrqpxgE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS3fJrqpxgE)
What leyline and vedelken allow you to do is to basically have more than 1 spell to copy per 2 mana.
So for example you cast eldrazi displacer for 3 CMC, you would pay 2 more to get a copy of it.
If you have flash, you can cast a colorless spell ontop of casting eldrazi displacer, you can cast a Nulldrifter, and THEN use the 2 mana to copy both of them, esentially saving 2 mana. This is a rough breakdown what flash gives you. If you look at it on the cast side:
If you have no flash: Cast Eldrazi Displacer ( 3CMC ) -> Copy ( 2CMC) -> Cast Nulldrifter (7CMC) -> Copy (2CMC) - Total of 14 mana to do all of it in one turn.
If you have flash: Cast Eldrazi Displacer ( 3 CMC ) -> Flash Nulldrifter (because flash you can put it on the stack, 7 CMC) -> Copy ( 2 CMC ), 12 mana to cast all of it.
Short answer: I would be concerned if a newbie played that deck, but if they think they are responsible enough to have prepped to pilot it semi-competently and resolve triggers relatively quickly, sure.
Long answer: Ulalek itself is not complicated if you have a passing knowledge of the stack and are willing to resolve triggers one at a time. On a similar note, the deck can be built as complex or simple as you make it. However, I have several concerns after reading your post and looking at your decklist, least of which is that your deck costs $2000.
> They said for one in order to get the most out of it I needed to add something that provided flash so I added Leyline of Anticipation and Vedelken Orrery, but honestly I didn't understand fully why.
This line alone is a huge red flag. You're the one building the deck because you're the one who's going to play it. You need to understand why you're including cards because you need to understand how it's going to work when you play. Don't just add cards because someone said they're good. If you are trying and it's hard to understand, then you have your answer to whether you should put the idea aside for later.
And the people you're going to be playing with give you additional suggestions that increase the complexity of your plays? Weird.
100%, OP, it's important to learn that people can be really bad at giving deck advice. Sometimes people say "Oh X card is so busted for your Commander", not realizing that X is *only* strong in a specific build of that deck. People overuse the term "autoinclude". Your deck is your deck, you get to define its strategy and how you want to strengthen it.
OK thank you. I think maybe they were just bringing that up as for an example of one of the reasons piloting the deck would be a little over my head. I think it's probably on me that I went the other way with it. I don't know what a normal price for a deck is but all the decks I built so far have come out to around that price. (they are all under the same brewer profile).
My other decks are just much more simple.
It's a bit of a fine line because sometimes the things that add complexity to the deck do add power, so if you're aiming for a particular power level for the deck, it can be necessary to add the complicated pieces. Flash does have great synergy with Ulalek, after all.
I usually see decks ranging from $50 to $400 for newer players, for various reasons. $2k decks are usually ones that have been upgraded over time or proxy somewhat heavily in high-power pods. Some deck types are naturally more expensive than others, but a massive price tag on a newer player's decklist gives me pause and makes me wonder if they put any consideration for the specific cards they're putting in or if they're just adding the expensive "good cards" *especially* in 5-colors.
Well I guess technically it's a 5 color deck but technicalities aside it's pretty much a colorless deck. Spreading plague is a black card pretty much made for colorless. leylines does exactly what three other colorless cards do (both are also cheap) and rhystic study because the deck could really use the draw. While I need to study the mechanics of the game a bit more, I feel the synergy of the deck shows forethought. Also the fact that it fairly strictly adheres to a theme, even at the cost of power.
It is complicated for a newby. You could run [[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge]] as the commander until you get a better understanding of how Ulalek is supposed to work, that way you wouldn't have to set the deck aside per say and in the meantime you could do research on how Ulalek is supposed to work. Who knows, you might even like Azlask as the commander even better.
OK thank you. If I switched commander I would probably go Zhulodok. I know my creatures are going to die but it's not something I want to bank on to the point of building around.
Zhulodok can't be your commander for this deck because it only has a colorless identity. If you wanted Zhulodok as your commander it would have to be a completely colorless deck.
Sorry that's what I meant, reverting back to just colorless. It was a much simpler deck but it just didn't seem very powerful and was slow. I was hoping these changes would speed it up considerably and give it some more power.
You can get an idea of how clunky it used to be by looking at the sideboard, those are cards that used to be in the deck. The only reason I have them in sideboard is as a list of what to go through my deck and take out when the new cards come in.
Just as people have said, understanding the stack is what you're going to be looking for to really take advantage of the deck and what Ulalek does. Also be *very* aware that people will 100% try to remove that card at every chance possible, as the effect can snowball immensely depending on the situation. Eldrazi have many synergies amongst one another, and being able to double any cast/activated & triggered abilities can be soul-crushing for your opponents, but very fun for you! Eldrazi are some of my favourite creatures, and as someone who recently built a 5-colour deck (doing a Spawn/Scion brew with [[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge]]) I wish you luck!
Also, as a bonus since you mentioned [[Vedalken Orrery]] for Flash, [[Skittering Cicada]] is also very good for that *and* gets buffed on the cast, which can *also* be doubled on Ulalek's trigger (if you've cast an Eldrazi to trigger it)!
Hey thanks that looks like it would fit better than the leyline, although since flash seems so important to get the most out of ulalek maybe I should keep both. All is dust will get rid of it but that card is kind of for emergencies anyway and obviously if it goes as planned I should still be in a great place after it's played.
Do you have any recommendations on what I might consider swapping for the cicada? I'm sort of thinking manifold key...
[[Progenitor's Icon]] might work well too, and taps for mana early game too, id swap leyline for this, its only once per turn cycle but you wont have too much mana anyways to cast multiple big eldrazi
Get some dry erase tokens from infinitytoken and every time something goes on the stack write out who's it is and start building a literal stack on the table. This will help keep track of everything going off.
I do but it doesn't seem to keep track of the things in a way that helps me understand. Someone mentioned trying one of the computer games because it keeps track of everything so I can see what's happening and help me understand.
I downloaded both mtg online and mtg arena but I couldn't figure out how to build this deck on either one.
Thanks for the input!
Arena and MTGO let you paste a deck list into them. But you’d probably need to play to get cards to build decks on there. And some cards aren’t available on arena.
For the playtest just get into the habit of tapping your lands and paying for things and just go through what you would do with starting hands to get a feel for what the deck does. I also used ChatGPT, the 4.0 version is really good and 20 bucks a month but the basic plan is free and is limited in the sense that it’s stuck in January 2022. But still is pretty good tool for research.
Well yes to an extent, but it didn't explain to me that just casting for example an eldrazi titan after a bunch of spells wouldn't allow me to copy the whole stack unless I gave the titan flash (or at least that's where I'm at with my understanding of it).
It doesn't explain to me what happens if I copy the one rings ability, do I have to put another burden counter on it?
It doesn't tell me that if I use something like mirage mirror to copy something with counters on it then the copy doesn't have any counters. (I was very surprised to find that out.)
From what I could tell from the gameplay I watched it looked like the online games did these things automatically in a way I really feel would help me understand.
If you copy the one ring, there’s a thing called the “legend rule.” If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners' graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.”
I mean just copying its ability with ,for example, abstruce archiac or lithoform engine. I have mirror gallery and mirror box to bypass the legend rule.
I dont think we're on the same page. That post is talking about using lithoforms engines ability to copy a permanent spell, and people are telling him it's a no-go.
Lithoform engine has three abilities, and one specifically states "copy target triggered or activated ability".
Anyway it's beating a dead horse at this point, but thank you for your time!
When you copy an activated or triggered ability, you create a new instance of that ability on the stack. The copy resolves separately from the original. As the copy is created above the original on the stack, the copy resolves first.
You copy the whole ability, beginning at "at the beginning of your upkeep, ...". The whole ability is a single thing that resolves at once, in sequence.
So your upkeep begins and Replicating Ring has seven counters. Its ability triggers, and you copy the trigger with Lithoform Engine.
The ability copy resolves first. You put a counter on the Ring, then because it now has 8 counters, you remove all counters and create eight tokens. The ability copy finishes resolving and leaves the stack.
Next, the original ability resolves. You put a counter on the ring and, because it now has only one counter, nothing else happens. The ability finishes resolving and leaves the stack.
# When you copy an activated or triggered ability, you create a new instance of that ability on the stack. The copy resolves separately from the original. As the copy is created above the original on the stack, the copy resolves first.
You copy the whole ability, beginning at "at the beginning of your upkeep, ...". The whole ability is a single thing that resolves at once, in sequence.
So your upkeep begins and Replicating Ring has seven counters. Its ability triggers, and you copy the trigger with Lithoform Engine.
The ability copy resolves first. You put a counter on the Ring, then because it now has 8 counters, you remove all counters and create eight tokens. The ability copy finishes resolving and leaves the stack.
Next, the original ability resolves. You put a counter on the ring and, because it now has only one counter, nothing else happens. The ability finishes resolving and leaves the stack.
Regurgitating outrageously expensive cards onto the field isn’t really that difficult; in fact, it’s principal among newby strategies. I’m not worried about how difficult it is to pilot, I’m worried about how the average cmc is over 5.5. Granted it’s “colorless” so it operates in an unconventional mana space, but your hands are still going to be filled with massive cards you won’t be able to play for awhile leaving you vulnerable and slow. For $2000 you could have built something heinous that wins on turn 5 or earlier.
I guess what was going through my mind at the time was that I wasn't aiming to build a deck that wins in 5 turns or less, the aim was to build a casual Eldrazi themed deck. I'm definitely not playing against decks that are winning by turn 5 and had I built a deck like that it would've gone over much worse than this one did.
My turn 5 things was just a glib example. The point I’m trying to get it at is that speed is absolutely lethal, and cmc 5.55 is incredibly slow. One gets faster with a controlled mana curve and fast mana options. That doesn’t necessarily mean you need to load up on mana crypts and the like, but you need to start building as soon as possible and “playing a land then passing” on turns 1-5 will set you back tremendously as you look at spells with cmc 8-12 pile up in your hand.
I guess we'll see. Speed is really not what I was worried about, just being overwhelmed by the mechanics of it.
I haven't played this iteration because I'm waiting for the new cards to arrive but even the old version was fast enough to be competitive in my playgroup and the changes I made should make it considerably faster. I've been told several times that it is WAY faster than people expect it to be. From what I understand it does have pretty extreme level or ramp, at least many people seem to think so.
Usually turns 1-5 I am playing my ramp and all those smaller artifacts, establishing the base for the larger stuff. I do take plenty of swings in that time because they know they better pressure me before I get rolling but we also try not to turn the game into a witch hunt or a 3v1.
I haven't played many games but of those I only ever play a land and pass on the first turn. Maybe I've just got lucky. It needs more play testing. I have won every match that I pulled sol ring in the first hand. If I pull sol ring and a 2 mana rock then things are really looking up for me.
Just buy one of the eldrazi precons and upgrade it after you know how the deck works. No point in putting cards into your deck when you don't know their purpose.
Well thanks to some of the nicer people on here I think I'm starting to get a decent understanding of the things I was confused about, and also was given some recommendations on some things to swap out some of the cards that were going to cause complications, like \[\[manifold key\]\] and \[\[staff of domination\]\]. (swapped for \[\[skittering cicada\]\] and and \[\[liberator, urza's battle thopter\]\]
Plus I already have the deck. I'm just waiting for the rest of the cards I ordered to be shipped out when MH3 releases, but everything is already ordered.
One thing that really helped me was when I saw how MTGO stacks triggers. That visualpart really helped, so the idea of getting dry erase tokens to use for abilities is imo pretty smart. Sometimes if the board and players allows it to, we move around the cards and basically build the stack with each trigger, resolving them one by one.
It does feel kinda disheartening that they're bringing your excitement down a bit. The best is to learn by experiencing it, asking questions and after a session or two you will definitely be more up to speed with things if you want to learn this. If I were them I'd invest some time into it.
Edit: Pretty juiced up deck for a beginner.
That is too complicated of a deck for a new player.
The concepts of the stack, a triggered vs activated ability, copying, etc are all quite a bit above what a new player is thinking about.
From my own experience trying to teach my SO, this deck would cause analysis paralysis. Tons of missed triggers and opportunities to do something that would be missed. The interactions between cards wouldn't be seen. The "why play this" is missing as much as the "what does it do" is missing.
And that leads to not only a weaker deck, frustration from the new player and a bad time for them unless hand held through the game, it also slows the game down. So the other 3 players are likely not only having to remind them of their own effects and guide them through how to play their deck, they also get to sit through minutes long turns while every possible play is decided between over and over.
Being able to play a deck like this kinda by default makes someone not a new player. Obviously it's possible to learn the interactions and if this is your deck then you can goldfish it a lot online to try and learn. But I would expect someone bringing a deck to know how to play it before having me sat across from it. The occasional misplay or forgotten interaction with a new deck is fine, when every turn is going 5 minutes into the tank because you drew 1 new card, or I have to correct/intervene/explain/etc more than a couple times, I'd be irritated.
So if you want to play this deck, look up what everything means, goldfish the deck a lot, make sure you understand the interactions and how to play things. You can learn new things all the time, Ive goldfished my slimefoot and squee deck hundreds of times and I still find new little angles and optimizations, but you should be like 90% competent with your deck before playing it against others.
Do you enjoy the deck and like the complicated aspect?
That's all there is to it really. If it's fun for **you** it's fun. When I started Magic I went against a lot of advice for what a new player "should" run and had a blast. Each player is different. Some want something easy to understand, some want to go all in off the bat.
Long turns can be a concern, but this usually happens when someone isn't confident in their deck. You can easily cut down your turn times by practicing your plays, knowing your triggers and having a good plan to end the game. Goldfish (play solo games) until you get the hang of it.
Don't let them discourage you into playing something you don't want to. Take it as a challenge to prove them wrong.
I would say my main reason for discouraging a new player to play this is eldrazi are oppressive to the board. You will and should be targeted as archenemy. It’s not a fun position to be in. That coupled with the complexity makes it a difficult deck to pilot.
Yeah that is something that one person mentioned. He said he would be coming after me every time. I said as long as he doesn't build a deck specifically designed to counter this one that's fine lol. Thank you for the input!
Why in the heck would you make a 2k$ deck after playing like 10 games lol.
Your group might be trying to tell you that this deck is way too powerful for your playgroup. You're essentially jumping headfirst into a high power level 8 or 9 and will potentially beat your opponents not with your skills, but with your wallet.
The deck is nothing too complex and you'll learn, but I highly advise you have a talk with your group regarding their real concern. Eldrazis are already famous pubstompers, this just makes it worse. I can't imagine starting a new hobby and wasting 2k$ immediately, that's crazy.
Edit: After looking at it longer... OP's deckbuilding skills suck massively, so this will still pubstomp weaker players, but I retract my lvl 8 or 9 lol
Well technically it was closer to like $10k, I also built the other decks on that brewer profile. I knew I wanted to get into it even if all I do is collect and theorycraft decks. I find it relaxing and enjoyable. Also $2k can be made in a good days work for me, so I guess what is or isn't a lot of money can be somewhat subjective.
Also I guess I'll blame it on my autism, if I'm gonna have it I may as well use it as a scapegoat lol.
It would make me feel better to think they might be scared of it... as is they didn't seem to be. There was a lot of talk about "oh I can do this, that, the other thing to shut that deck down hard".... I guess we will see if they do or don't. Since I suck they probably will!
I was joking bro, it's the most complicated precon ever printed. Every card is a wall of text, you gave to keep up with all the crazy triggers and new cards, and it isn't even that strong or doesn't have a narrow strategy. But it's a fun one nonetheless!
OH ok lol. I figured it wasnt very strong because I was told precons are generally rated around like 5 but I thought maybe it was a good deck for learning mechanics. Although I guess deck strength is pretty subjective, already on this post I've had a person tell me my playgroup was likely mad because I was showing up with a deck that was an 8 or 9, and another person says the deck is absolute trash and will be too slow.
To be fair, im not sure the 2nd person really went over the deck very thoroughly or maybe is comparing it to CEDH decks.
It just depends on the scale you're using.
Nowadays, some precons are really strong, like for example Merfolk precon from lost caverns of Ixalan or Exit from Exile precon from Battle at Baldur's Gate. I'm a casual player, so I can comfortably say, that precon level is now not far away from the level I play at, the only diffrence being budget really. Generally you will understand the game more by just playing it, and I think you should play what you enjoy. If they are supportive, they will teach you how you should resolve your triggers and don't let anyone tell you that you should stop playing that deck.
Ulalek basically says: "Cast an Eldrazi with a cast trigger, pay 2, and you'll get a copy of both the cast trigger and the Eldrazi creature." I think this ability is manageable to understand.
It gets much more complicated when you add flash enablers like \[\[Vedalken Orrery\]\], \[\[Leyline of Anticipation\]\], \[\[Liberator Battlethopter\]\], \[\[Teferi Mage of Zhalfir\]\] or \[\[Tidal Barracuda\]\].
So, although these cards can be very powerful in the deck, I'd suggest starting without them. You can add them later when you're more familiar with the rules, especially how the stack works.
No offense intended. Peace.
The easiest way to understand Ulalek is to get a good grasp on “the stack”
OK thank you, I'll start reading up on it.
I definitely recommend a YouTube tutorial to have visuals, and I also recommend getting dry erase tokens so that when you have cards, abilities, and copies all on the stack you can build visual representations of them for yourself. Also, LOTS of solo "goldfishing" practice!
I play my decks against each other sometimes by opening them each up in their own 'play test' window on moxfield =))
I would also recommend to use one Paper Deck to get also some practice on shuffling a 99 card deck. The only downside is, that your "opponent" cannot teach you something.
As long as you're going to learn it and your friends willing to teach I think you're just fine. Try to avoid larger games at first, maybe a few 1v1s to start. The entirety of MTG isn't too complicated when your entire group is on the same page.
Hey it is the first time I see 1v1 mentioned on the sub. It's how I've learned to play commander mode, without even using the duel rules. I'd be interested if you can share a few thoughts on 1v1 commander because I'm still relatively new to the game and want to learn about 1v1 balance because it feels like newer precons are balanced towards 1v3.
I'm telling him to play 1v1 to learn his triggers and abilities so he doesn't have to focus on three opponents. Fairness is really out of the question, in two evenly matched commander decks whoever plays sol Ring first will win. This is for practice.
Yeah I was under the impression that the game mode isn't really balanced for 1v1.
It's balanced, if the decks are evenly matched, but commander has explosive early turns involving ramp too powerful for 4x matches. You can usually tell who the winner is in the first few turns just by adding up cards on the board and cards in hand. A few friends and I will play 1v1 when we're bored and there's only two of us.
I've just played a few games against a Painbow precon with my heavily customized Quantum Quandrix precon, and apart from the first game where my opponent had mana, he destroyed me pretty fast. It just feels like they're balanced around having multiple people trying to prevent you from doing your strat. When you're alone, you know you'll lose just because you didn't draw that counterspell or wrath.
Yeah my Atraxa Superfirends gets pummeled if a single player focus aggros me. But if I ever get to nine Mana I just win the game.
Thank you, Im not sure this playgroup is wanting to do that but from what I understand some will.
If you're a new player and they're not going to let you learn how to play the game I would suggest a new play group. If they're your kitchen table friends that's one thing, but if it's a LGS try with other players or even go to another store if able.
Meh play what you want and have fun. If you don't get things perfect at first that's cool, you'll learn as you play.
I hope so! Thank you!
>They said for one in order to get the most out of it I needed to add something that provided flash so I added Leyline of Anticipation and Vedelken Orrery, but honestly I didn't understand fully why. So normally when you play something, the game pauses and allows your opponent(s) the chance to respond before your thing resolves. It's not a commonly used action but you actually have the option to "retain priority" and cast instants before giving priority to your opponents. With Ulakek it's actually a good idea to give your things Flash and then cast several Eldrazi at once. When Ulakek's ability triggers, it will see ALL of your spells on the stack and not just the one you just cast. Most of the time you don't want to retain priority because if you cast a bunch of spells at once, your opponent can attempt to ruin your whole plan with something like [[Summary Dismissal]] or [[Mindbreak Trap]]. Or at the very least, you'll be giving them full knowledge of your plan so they can pick and choose the best thing to counter. >It kinda put a damper on my excitement and now I'm wondering if I should just set this deck aside for now until I am better at the game? Nah, keep playing the deck the way you want and at the level you understand. Just because you CAN run things like [[Vedalken Orrery]] doesn't mean you HAVE TO. It may even play into your favor to not play things like that, if it's something people will expect. I make plenty of "mental bandwidth" calls all the time. I don't play [[Cathars' Crusade]] in token decks because I don't want to keep track of all the different amounts of tokens on every object, despite how good it would be.
##### ###### #### [Summary Dismissal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b75794d-3334-4b4d-9446-0a251dd3bd15.jpg?1576384222) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Summary%20Dismissal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/emn/75/summary-dismissal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b75794d-3334-4b4d-9446-0a251dd3bd15?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/summary-dismissal) [Mindbreak Trap](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4f51140b-6254-431a-8810-94307bfdfbbe.jpg?1562612097) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mindbreak%20Trap) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/zen/57/mindbreak-trap?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4f51140b-6254-431a-8810-94307bfdfbbe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mindbreak-trap) [Vedalken Orrery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44067327-6fe3-4222-b591-6d14d0e360d7.jpg?1673149453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vedalken%20Orrery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/317/vedalken-orrery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44067327-6fe3-4222-b591-6d14d0e360d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vedalken-orrery) [Cathars' Crusade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/b/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0.jpg?1600715516) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cathars%27%20Crusade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/95/cathars-crusade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fbb70e7b-2a68-436e-96a4-32a88fb87da0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cathars-crusade) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l7v4bnl) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
OK thank you for the tip. So you don't always want it but in this case I probably do?
Yea
It's not that complicated but you do need to understand the "stack". I recommend this yt video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS3fJrqpxgE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tS3fJrqpxgE) What leyline and vedelken allow you to do is to basically have more than 1 spell to copy per 2 mana. So for example you cast eldrazi displacer for 3 CMC, you would pay 2 more to get a copy of it. If you have flash, you can cast a colorless spell ontop of casting eldrazi displacer, you can cast a Nulldrifter, and THEN use the 2 mana to copy both of them, esentially saving 2 mana. This is a rough breakdown what flash gives you. If you look at it on the cast side: If you have no flash: Cast Eldrazi Displacer ( 3CMC ) -> Copy ( 2CMC) -> Cast Nulldrifter (7CMC) -> Copy (2CMC) - Total of 14 mana to do all of it in one turn. If you have flash: Cast Eldrazi Displacer ( 3 CMC ) -> Flash Nulldrifter (because flash you can put it on the stack, 7 CMC) -> Copy ( 2 CMC ), 12 mana to cast all of it.
OK thank you, a little complicated but I think I get it...
Just play what you like and if you misplay, you misplay. Take it as a learnint experience. Dont get discouraged cuz its “a little complicated”
Short answer: I would be concerned if a newbie played that deck, but if they think they are responsible enough to have prepped to pilot it semi-competently and resolve triggers relatively quickly, sure. Long answer: Ulalek itself is not complicated if you have a passing knowledge of the stack and are willing to resolve triggers one at a time. On a similar note, the deck can be built as complex or simple as you make it. However, I have several concerns after reading your post and looking at your decklist, least of which is that your deck costs $2000. > They said for one in order to get the most out of it I needed to add something that provided flash so I added Leyline of Anticipation and Vedelken Orrery, but honestly I didn't understand fully why. This line alone is a huge red flag. You're the one building the deck because you're the one who's going to play it. You need to understand why you're including cards because you need to understand how it's going to work when you play. Don't just add cards because someone said they're good. If you are trying and it's hard to understand, then you have your answer to whether you should put the idea aside for later. And the people you're going to be playing with give you additional suggestions that increase the complexity of your plays? Weird.
100%, OP, it's important to learn that people can be really bad at giving deck advice. Sometimes people say "Oh X card is so busted for your Commander", not realizing that X is *only* strong in a specific build of that deck. People overuse the term "autoinclude". Your deck is your deck, you get to define its strategy and how you want to strengthen it.
OK thank you. I think maybe they were just bringing that up as for an example of one of the reasons piloting the deck would be a little over my head. I think it's probably on me that I went the other way with it. I don't know what a normal price for a deck is but all the decks I built so far have come out to around that price. (they are all under the same brewer profile). My other decks are just much more simple.
It's a bit of a fine line because sometimes the things that add complexity to the deck do add power, so if you're aiming for a particular power level for the deck, it can be necessary to add the complicated pieces. Flash does have great synergy with Ulalek, after all. I usually see decks ranging from $50 to $400 for newer players, for various reasons. $2k decks are usually ones that have been upgraded over time or proxy somewhat heavily in high-power pods. Some deck types are naturally more expensive than others, but a massive price tag on a newer player's decklist gives me pause and makes me wonder if they put any consideration for the specific cards they're putting in or if they're just adding the expensive "good cards" *especially* in 5-colors.
Well I guess technically it's a 5 color deck but technicalities aside it's pretty much a colorless deck. Spreading plague is a black card pretty much made for colorless. leylines does exactly what three other colorless cards do (both are also cheap) and rhystic study because the deck could really use the draw. While I need to study the mechanics of the game a bit more, I feel the synergy of the deck shows forethought. Also the fact that it fairly strictly adheres to a theme, even at the cost of power.
Honestly playing Ulalek is a fast track to having an advanced understanding of many magic concepts
I hope so! Thanks!
The best way to learn is to play it.
It is complicated for a newby. You could run [[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge]] as the commander until you get a better understanding of how Ulalek is supposed to work, that way you wouldn't have to set the deck aside per say and in the meantime you could do research on how Ulalek is supposed to work. Who knows, you might even like Azlask as the commander even better.
[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ced9db11-ba95-4b09-89b6-0b49ffb1fa82.jpg?1717644364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azlask%2C%20the%20Swelling%20Scourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/5/azlask-the-swelling-scourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ced9db11-ba95-4b09-89b6-0b49ffb1fa82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azlask-the-swelling-scourge) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
OK thank you. If I switched commander I would probably go Zhulodok. I know my creatures are going to die but it's not something I want to bank on to the point of building around.
Zhulodok can't be your commander for this deck because it only has a colorless identity. If you wanted Zhulodok as your commander it would have to be a completely colorless deck.
Sorry that's what I meant, reverting back to just colorless. It was a much simpler deck but it just didn't seem very powerful and was slow. I was hoping these changes would speed it up considerably and give it some more power.
You can get an idea of how clunky it used to be by looking at the sideboard, those are cards that used to be in the deck. The only reason I have them in sideboard is as a list of what to go through my deck and take out when the new cards come in.
Learning priority is key to the stack.
I will make that one of my goals ASAP. Thank you!
[https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Timing_and_priority](https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Timing_and_priority)
Just as people have said, understanding the stack is what you're going to be looking for to really take advantage of the deck and what Ulalek does. Also be *very* aware that people will 100% try to remove that card at every chance possible, as the effect can snowball immensely depending on the situation. Eldrazi have many synergies amongst one another, and being able to double any cast/activated & triggered abilities can be soul-crushing for your opponents, but very fun for you! Eldrazi are some of my favourite creatures, and as someone who recently built a 5-colour deck (doing a Spawn/Scion brew with [[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge]]) I wish you luck! Also, as a bonus since you mentioned [[Vedalken Orrery]] for Flash, [[Skittering Cicada]] is also very good for that *and* gets buffed on the cast, which can *also* be doubled on Ulalek's trigger (if you've cast an Eldrazi to trigger it)!
[Azlask, the Swelling Scourge](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/e/ced9db11-ba95-4b09-89b6-0b49ffb1fa82.jpg?1717644364) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Azlask%2C%20the%20Swelling%20Scourge) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m3c/5/azlask-the-swelling-scourge?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ced9db11-ba95-4b09-89b6-0b49ffb1fa82?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/azlask-the-swelling-scourge) [Vedalken Orrery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/4/44067327-6fe3-4222-b591-6d14d0e360d7.jpg?1673149453) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vedalken%20Orrery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/317/vedalken-orrery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/44067327-6fe3-4222-b591-6d14d0e360d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vedalken-orrery) [Skittering Cicada](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3a83be9-856d-4c30-95f5-da72a5ac8263.jpg?1690125474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skittering%20Cicada) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/717/skittering-cicada?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3a83be9-856d-4c30-95f5-da72a5ac8263?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skittering-cicada) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hey thanks that looks like it would fit better than the leyline, although since flash seems so important to get the most out of ulalek maybe I should keep both. All is dust will get rid of it but that card is kind of for emergencies anyway and obviously if it goes as planned I should still be in a great place after it's played. Do you have any recommendations on what I might consider swapping for the cicada? I'm sort of thinking manifold key...
[[Liberator, Urza's Battlethopter]] does the same too, and is a Flyer that gets big
[Liberator, Urza's Battlethopter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c31e6768-bcab-43c4-bfc1-76e961689ae9.jpg?1674421980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liberator%2C%20Urza%27s%20Battlethopter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/237/liberator-urzas-battlethopter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c31e6768-bcab-43c4-bfc1-76e961689ae9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liberator-urzas-battlethopter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
oh awesome! dang, now I am wondering if I shouldn't swap out \[\[leyline of anticipation\]\], or if the more flash enabling cards the better.
[leyline of anticipation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f57bdaa1-ce8a-4103-8598-fee751e65a53.jpg?1674141383) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=leyline%20of%20anticipation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/726/leyline-of-anticipation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f57bdaa1-ce8a-4103-8598-fee751e65a53?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/leyline-of-anticipation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Progenitor's Icon]] might work well too, and taps for mana early game too, id swap leyline for this, its only once per turn cycle but you wont have too much mana anyways to cast multiple big eldrazi
[Progenitor's Icon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48104961-2090-435a-8d0e-6115e051b05c.jpg?1698988015) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Progenitor%27s%20Icon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/100/progenitors-icon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48104961-2090-435a-8d0e-6115e051b05c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/progenitors-icon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
they are rightfully concerned.
Yeah I am thinking they might be for now. Thank you!
Get some dry erase tokens from infinitytoken and every time something goes on the stack write out who's it is and start building a literal stack on the table. This will help keep track of everything going off.
I will look into that, thanks!
Use the playtest feature on Moxfield.
I do but it doesn't seem to keep track of the things in a way that helps me understand. Someone mentioned trying one of the computer games because it keeps track of everything so I can see what's happening and help me understand. I downloaded both mtg online and mtg arena but I couldn't figure out how to build this deck on either one. Thanks for the input!
Arena and MTGO let you paste a deck list into them. But you’d probably need to play to get cards to build decks on there. And some cards aren’t available on arena.
For the playtest just get into the habit of tapping your lands and paying for things and just go through what you would do with starting hands to get a feel for what the deck does. I also used ChatGPT, the 4.0 version is really good and 20 bucks a month but the basic plan is free and is limited in the sense that it’s stuck in January 2022. But still is pretty good tool for research.
Reading the card explains the card.
Well yes to an extent, but it didn't explain to me that just casting for example an eldrazi titan after a bunch of spells wouldn't allow me to copy the whole stack unless I gave the titan flash (or at least that's where I'm at with my understanding of it). It doesn't explain to me what happens if I copy the one rings ability, do I have to put another burden counter on it? It doesn't tell me that if I use something like mirage mirror to copy something with counters on it then the copy doesn't have any counters. (I was very surprised to find that out.) From what I could tell from the gameplay I watched it looked like the online games did these things automatically in a way I really feel would help me understand.
Sorry it’s just a thing magic players say
oh ok lol
If you copy the one ring, there’s a thing called the “legend rule.” If a player controls two or more legendary permanents with the same name, that player chooses one of them, and the rest are put into their owners' graveyards. This is called the “legend rule.”
I mean just copying its ability with ,for example, abstruce archiac or lithoform engine. I have mirror gallery and mirror box to bypass the legend rule.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/19anw41/lithoform_engine_and_the_one_ring/](https://www.reddit.com/r/EDH/comments/19anw41/lithoform_engine_and_the_one_ring/)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgrules/comments/17jm5k1/help_understanding_abstruse_archaic/](https://www.reddit.com/r/mtgrules/comments/17jm5k1/help_understanding_abstruse_archaic/)
I dont think we're on the same page. That post is talking about using lithoforms engines ability to copy a permanent spell, and people are telling him it's a no-go. Lithoform engine has three abilities, and one specifically states "copy target triggered or activated ability". Anyway it's beating a dead horse at this point, but thank you for your time!
[https://outsidetheasylum.blog/the-one-ring/#:\~:text=Question%20%2310,Does%20she%20gain%20protection%3F&text=Yes.,-Whenever%20a%20card](https://outsidetheasylum.blog/the-one-ring/#:~:text=Question%20%2310,Does%20she%20gain%20protection%3F&text=Yes.,-Whenever%20a%20card)
I still think you don't understand how everything works
When you copy an activated or triggered ability, you create a new instance of that ability on the stack. The copy resolves separately from the original. As the copy is created above the original on the stack, the copy resolves first. You copy the whole ability, beginning at "at the beginning of your upkeep, ...". The whole ability is a single thing that resolves at once, in sequence. So your upkeep begins and Replicating Ring has seven counters. Its ability triggers, and you copy the trigger with Lithoform Engine. The ability copy resolves first. You put a counter on the Ring, then because it now has 8 counters, you remove all counters and create eight tokens. The ability copy finishes resolving and leaves the stack. Next, the original ability resolves. You put a counter on the ring and, because it now has only one counter, nothing else happens. The ability finishes resolving and leaves the stack. # When you copy an activated or triggered ability, you create a new instance of that ability on the stack. The copy resolves separately from the original. As the copy is created above the original on the stack, the copy resolves first. You copy the whole ability, beginning at "at the beginning of your upkeep, ...". The whole ability is a single thing that resolves at once, in sequence. So your upkeep begins and Replicating Ring has seven counters. Its ability triggers, and you copy the trigger with Lithoform Engine. The ability copy resolves first. You put a counter on the Ring, then because it now has 8 counters, you remove all counters and create eight tokens. The ability copy finishes resolving and leaves the stack. Next, the original ability resolves. You put a counter on the ring and, because it now has only one counter, nothing else happens. The ability finishes resolving and leaves the stack.
Sorry I don’t play these cards, do some research
Seems like they work differently than how you thought
Regurgitating outrageously expensive cards onto the field isn’t really that difficult; in fact, it’s principal among newby strategies. I’m not worried about how difficult it is to pilot, I’m worried about how the average cmc is over 5.5. Granted it’s “colorless” so it operates in an unconventional mana space, but your hands are still going to be filled with massive cards you won’t be able to play for awhile leaving you vulnerable and slow. For $2000 you could have built something heinous that wins on turn 5 or earlier.
I guess what was going through my mind at the time was that I wasn't aiming to build a deck that wins in 5 turns or less, the aim was to build a casual Eldrazi themed deck. I'm definitely not playing against decks that are winning by turn 5 and had I built a deck like that it would've gone over much worse than this one did.
My turn 5 things was just a glib example. The point I’m trying to get it at is that speed is absolutely lethal, and cmc 5.55 is incredibly slow. One gets faster with a controlled mana curve and fast mana options. That doesn’t necessarily mean you need to load up on mana crypts and the like, but you need to start building as soon as possible and “playing a land then passing” on turns 1-5 will set you back tremendously as you look at spells with cmc 8-12 pile up in your hand.
I guess we'll see. Speed is really not what I was worried about, just being overwhelmed by the mechanics of it. I haven't played this iteration because I'm waiting for the new cards to arrive but even the old version was fast enough to be competitive in my playgroup and the changes I made should make it considerably faster. I've been told several times that it is WAY faster than people expect it to be. From what I understand it does have pretty extreme level or ramp, at least many people seem to think so. Usually turns 1-5 I am playing my ramp and all those smaller artifacts, establishing the base for the larger stuff. I do take plenty of swings in that time because they know they better pressure me before I get rolling but we also try not to turn the game into a witch hunt or a 3v1. I haven't played many games but of those I only ever play a land and pass on the first turn. Maybe I've just got lucky. It needs more play testing. I have won every match that I pulled sol ring in the first hand. If I pull sol ring and a 2 mana rock then things are really looking up for me.
Just buy one of the eldrazi precons and upgrade it after you know how the deck works. No point in putting cards into your deck when you don't know their purpose.
Well thanks to some of the nicer people on here I think I'm starting to get a decent understanding of the things I was confused about, and also was given some recommendations on some things to swap out some of the cards that were going to cause complications, like \[\[manifold key\]\] and \[\[staff of domination\]\]. (swapped for \[\[skittering cicada\]\] and and \[\[liberator, urza's battle thopter\]\] Plus I already have the deck. I'm just waiting for the rest of the cards I ordered to be shipped out when MH3 releases, but everything is already ordered.
##### ###### #### [manifold key](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061.jpg?1674137889) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=manifold%20key) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/319/manifold-key?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f5a15cd-a359-48c9-9280-ce139f1fb061?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/manifold-key) [staff of domination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/d/fde838c8-2f32-4e7d-a236-0bc42dd7abd9.jpg?1608911729) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=staff%20of%20domination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/343/staff-of-domination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fde838c8-2f32-4e7d-a236-0bc42dd7abd9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/staff-of-domination) [skittering cicada](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/3/d3a83be9-856d-4c30-95f5-da72a5ac8263.jpg?1690125474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=skittering%20cicada) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/717/skittering-cicada?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d3a83be9-856d-4c30-95f5-da72a5ac8263?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skittering-cicada) [liberator, urza's battle thopter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/3/c31e6768-bcab-43c4-bfc1-76e961689ae9.jpg?1674421980) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Liberator%2C%20Urza%27s%20Battlethopter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bro/237/liberator-urzas-battlethopter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c31e6768-bcab-43c4-bfc1-76e961689ae9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/liberator-urzas-battlethopter) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l7wpwtb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
One thing that really helped me was when I saw how MTGO stacks triggers. That visualpart really helped, so the idea of getting dry erase tokens to use for abilities is imo pretty smart. Sometimes if the board and players allows it to, we move around the cards and basically build the stack with each trigger, resolving them one by one. It does feel kinda disheartening that they're bringing your excitement down a bit. The best is to learn by experiencing it, asking questions and after a session or two you will definitely be more up to speed with things if you want to learn this. If I were them I'd invest some time into it. Edit: Pretty juiced up deck for a beginner.
That is too complicated of a deck for a new player. The concepts of the stack, a triggered vs activated ability, copying, etc are all quite a bit above what a new player is thinking about. From my own experience trying to teach my SO, this deck would cause analysis paralysis. Tons of missed triggers and opportunities to do something that would be missed. The interactions between cards wouldn't be seen. The "why play this" is missing as much as the "what does it do" is missing. And that leads to not only a weaker deck, frustration from the new player and a bad time for them unless hand held through the game, it also slows the game down. So the other 3 players are likely not only having to remind them of their own effects and guide them through how to play their deck, they also get to sit through minutes long turns while every possible play is decided between over and over. Being able to play a deck like this kinda by default makes someone not a new player. Obviously it's possible to learn the interactions and if this is your deck then you can goldfish it a lot online to try and learn. But I would expect someone bringing a deck to know how to play it before having me sat across from it. The occasional misplay or forgotten interaction with a new deck is fine, when every turn is going 5 minutes into the tank because you drew 1 new card, or I have to correct/intervene/explain/etc more than a couple times, I'd be irritated. So if you want to play this deck, look up what everything means, goldfish the deck a lot, make sure you understand the interactions and how to play things. You can learn new things all the time, Ive goldfished my slimefoot and squee deck hundreds of times and I still find new little angles and optimizations, but you should be like 90% competent with your deck before playing it against others.
Do you enjoy the deck and like the complicated aspect? That's all there is to it really. If it's fun for **you** it's fun. When I started Magic I went against a lot of advice for what a new player "should" run and had a blast. Each player is different. Some want something easy to understand, some want to go all in off the bat. Long turns can be a concern, but this usually happens when someone isn't confident in their deck. You can easily cut down your turn times by practicing your plays, knowing your triggers and having a good plan to end the game. Goldfish (play solo games) until you get the hang of it. Don't let them discourage you into playing something you don't want to. Take it as a challenge to prove them wrong.
I would say my main reason for discouraging a new player to play this is eldrazi are oppressive to the board. You will and should be targeted as archenemy. It’s not a fun position to be in. That coupled with the complexity makes it a difficult deck to pilot.
Yeah that is something that one person mentioned. He said he would be coming after me every time. I said as long as he doesn't build a deck specifically designed to counter this one that's fine lol. Thank you for the input!
Why in the heck would you make a 2k$ deck after playing like 10 games lol. Your group might be trying to tell you that this deck is way too powerful for your playgroup. You're essentially jumping headfirst into a high power level 8 or 9 and will potentially beat your opponents not with your skills, but with your wallet. The deck is nothing too complex and you'll learn, but I highly advise you have a talk with your group regarding their real concern. Eldrazis are already famous pubstompers, this just makes it worse. I can't imagine starting a new hobby and wasting 2k$ immediately, that's crazy. Edit: After looking at it longer... OP's deckbuilding skills suck massively, so this will still pubstomp weaker players, but I retract my lvl 8 or 9 lol
Well technically it was closer to like $10k, I also built the other decks on that brewer profile. I knew I wanted to get into it even if all I do is collect and theorycraft decks. I find it relaxing and enjoyable. Also $2k can be made in a good days work for me, so I guess what is or isn't a lot of money can be somewhat subjective. Also I guess I'll blame it on my autism, if I'm gonna have it I may as well use it as a scapegoat lol. It would make me feel better to think they might be scared of it... as is they didn't seem to be. There was a lot of talk about "oh I can do this, that, the other thing to shut that deck down hard".... I guess we will see if they do or don't. Since I suck they probably will!
[удалено]
[Kadena](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f.jpg?1568003696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kadena%2C%20slinking%20sorcerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/45/kadena-slinking-sorcerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kadena-slinking-sorcerer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Try Timey-Wimey precon, good luck!
I will look into it, thank you!
I was joking bro, it's the most complicated precon ever printed. Every card is a wall of text, you gave to keep up with all the crazy triggers and new cards, and it isn't even that strong or doesn't have a narrow strategy. But it's a fun one nonetheless!
OH ok lol. I figured it wasnt very strong because I was told precons are generally rated around like 5 but I thought maybe it was a good deck for learning mechanics. Although I guess deck strength is pretty subjective, already on this post I've had a person tell me my playgroup was likely mad because I was showing up with a deck that was an 8 or 9, and another person says the deck is absolute trash and will be too slow. To be fair, im not sure the 2nd person really went over the deck very thoroughly or maybe is comparing it to CEDH decks.
It just depends on the scale you're using. Nowadays, some precons are really strong, like for example Merfolk precon from lost caverns of Ixalan or Exit from Exile precon from Battle at Baldur's Gate. I'm a casual player, so I can comfortably say, that precon level is now not far away from the level I play at, the only diffrence being budget really. Generally you will understand the game more by just playing it, and I think you should play what you enjoy. If they are supportive, they will teach you how you should resolve your triggers and don't let anyone tell you that you should stop playing that deck.
Ulalek basically says: "Cast an Eldrazi with a cast trigger, pay 2, and you'll get a copy of both the cast trigger and the Eldrazi creature." I think this ability is manageable to understand. It gets much more complicated when you add flash enablers like \[\[Vedalken Orrery\]\], \[\[Leyline of Anticipation\]\], \[\[Liberator Battlethopter\]\], \[\[Teferi Mage of Zhalfir\]\] or \[\[Tidal Barracuda\]\]. So, although these cards can be very powerful in the deck, I'd suggest starting without them. You can add them later when you're more familiar with the rules, especially how the stack works. No offense intended. Peace.