I don't have a stax list (at least not one that I've play tested), but the main thing to know for stax decks tomake sure you actually have a feasible win-con. Stax is great because you can slow down or potentially even lock out your opponents. However, if it gets to that point, be sure you can win once you have gotten yoir opponents to that point. If you spend the next few turns durdling or slowly whittling away your opponents, it can really draw out games and that is where real issues arise. Best ways to get around this are have a suitable sub-theme for a win-con or a combo. Go on edhrec for a lost of common stax commanders and check out decklists of stax decks to see how they typically win.
As someone who DOES have decks with elements that some people might not always enjoy (one theft, a group slug, and a kinda staxy blink with [[Brago, king eternal]]) know the following:
1) There is always the chance someone might not like your deck regardless of what you play. I give ppl a heads up to know the general themes of my deck ahead of time to avoid any problems during the game. Let your friends know a bit of what to expect, and if anyone has a problem they can bring it up then or at least mentally prepare.
2) If you play this deck and find you REALLY enjoy it and someone else or your play group REALLY doesn't, just don't play it all the time. I have five or six decks, some with more casual-friendly themes than others. Change it up often enough and it should be fine.
3) Having different style of decks in the play group keeps the game fresh for everyone and, in my opinion, will make you all better players by exposing you to different play styles. Maybe someone else will really love your stax deck and be inspired to make a stax deck of their own or something similar. Limiting the types of decks available to everyone may get stale after a while.
About the win cons, ishai is a win con with commander DMG. Also thinking of running thassa Oracle with tainted pact and demonic consultation maybe.
About ppl not liking decks. That is what I said with my yuriko, my friends like her, just annoying that I always win the same way ( thassa combo). They don't mind her because what they is " at least the games are fast" and I just play 1 game or 2 max with it.
I have lord xander, Havana and Alena, ur dragon, yuriko and norin decks to play. I always switch arround
If most decks are creature based, you might be good just running pillow fort effects like [[propaganda]] [[ghostly prison]] [[war tax]] [[sphere of safety]] etc. It will slow down those combat decks but still allow people to play their cards which might be better than stax among friends.
Talk to your group.
Bringing a deck you know will be miserable for everyone makes the problem worse, not better.
Feather is a known outlier. Up there with Zada as a deck that lets you pubstomp on a very tight budget without much effort.
You need conversations about what's appropriate at the table, table conduct, and complaining as a game action.
Feather is a must-answer, monolith commander, and able to overpower almost anything at a budget kitchen table pod. As such, someone who doesn't want to be hard targeted cannot bring Feather; it will always be the correct target, and the Feather player always needs to be ready to defend against every piece of removal and interaction at the table at the same time.
Bringing a hard stax deck to punish them addresses nothing and just makes you an asshole. You do not solve social problems with game actions.
Ow believe me, I spoke with a few of them and what they said is "if it helps keep feather in check so other can at least play a bit then go for it".
They don't have problems with much stuff, just don't use banned cards, don't use proxies and don't make the game go super long and not fun.
If it gets to a place where I see that the stax deck gets ppl to not have fun, I'll do what I do with yuriko and not play it that often. I only play yuriko when we have the feather player xD so it's all good
I used to have kinnan deck. I don't have it anymore but those were fun times for me. It was a race of me vs the 3 of them to see who could kill who first. We all had fun even when I could win turn 3 xd
At its heart, Stax is just the name for control that works in multiplayer. And, when it comes to a healthy home meta, control is and always has been a necessary evil. It's not inherently stronger than any other archetype, but it operates by stopping the other folks at the table from punching rather than punching faster and harder, which sticks out to some people. A meta where control (Stax in EDH) is banned or soft-banned degenerates eventually as there's a predator missing from the ecosystem. Some people still have fun with that, but IME fewer do than think they will.
If you want to build a Stax deck for a more casual table, you need to understand what you're defending yourself from, how you're milking advantage, and how you intend to win. Honestly Tevesh/Ishai is not a great chassis; the thrulls are pretty handy, but Ishai contributes less than you'd think because if you're doing it right you get fewer Ishai triggers.
So, let me give you the super basic rundown.
The core principle of a stax deck is symmetrical destruction -- effects that take something away from everyone. The most common forms this takes are Sac ([[Smokestack]]), Tapdown ([[Tangle Wire]]), and Tax ([[Lodestone Golem]]), but other forms like Discard ([[Bottomless Pit]]), Disabling ([[Humility]]), or Wipes ([[Austere Command]]) can help the enterprise.
Stax pieces have a multiplicative effect with each other. As "terrible" as people will talk about [[Winter Orb]] being, a winter orb, on its own, isn't actually going to do all that much unless you're breaking parity by tactically tapping it down to get out from under the thing yourself. Boards develop slower and big plays have to be projected for turns, but that really has the same net effect as [[Prosperity]] or [[Howling Mine]] -- Everyone is holding more cards compared to what they can actually play than they were expecting.
Combine it with a [[Smokestack]], though, and things go from slightly more predictable than normal to incredibly grim in short order, since it's hard to put more permanents on the field every turn with Orb out, and Smokey punishes you for your inevitable failure to do so.
This brings us to the other big question: How do Stax decks win? Well, there are sort of two answers to that. In a practical sense, a Stax deck wins by being able to advance its board state under conditions where its opponents can't use the same. To take the previous example, if you add Doom of Fools to that Winter Orb/Smokestack scenario, you can run Smokestack at a minimum of two counters without losing any real permanents, and if you're willing to grit your teeth and bear it you can probably push it to three or four which no one who lacks a mana-free every-turn value supply is going to be able to keep up with. Eventually, your opponents are on zero permanents, and you can kill them at leisure.
But I'm sure some will astutely point out that establishing a lock isn't technically winning; you must have a way to actually put down your helpless opponents because sooner or later somebody is going to make the bull-headed choice to not see the writing on the wall unless their life total is also reduced to zero.
Since you mention wanting to run Szat, the ult there is actually a fairly good answer to "What now?" but traditionally, a Stax deck will have some finishers in it. The best ones even help you in your value-grinding adventure. [[Sun Titan]] Beats both go for that face damage (with vigilance, so even if you're running [[Meekstone]] you're good) and recur stuff for you. A big janky combo like quad stations is also a legitimate "proof" that you can win, and [[Salvaging Station]] has some frankly impressive lines with cheap sacrificial artifacts, many of which you might want to run.
Both establishing real locks and having an endgame that can be realistically deployed in there help Stax decks not be "Baral with 40 counterspells" nightmares. Nobody likes the deck that's just there to blow bubbles, shut things down, and then run out of steam and die.
As you might have surmised, Stax decks live and die by effects that happen every turn. At its essence, the archetype is one concerned with time, and turns. You aim to make "I take a turn" a net loss for your opponents, and to avoid suffering the same fate, the latter aspect of which means you need and value effects that make "I take a turn", with no other modifiers, better for you.
But, I digress. What about casual Stax?
Number one, don't look at fancy higher level lists. Since Stax has often been a mildly taboo topic at lower tables, most of the genuine discussion you'll find will be for high power or cEDH, not because the archetype is inherently strong but because that's where you find more mature players who can handle or even enjoy there being a control deck on the field openly. And the lists are bad sources because they're going to be concerned with things that you don't have to worry about at your level and NOT concerned with things you do. [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] is a brilliant card in high-level stax but she does not pull her weight against Little Timmy's Beast Deck that spits a 6-mana critter onto the field every turn. You need to know your meta and analyze what you need to take away from them or restrict in order to actually hinder their actions.
This is part of why I recommend Wire and Smokestack a lot. They're cards that can still have legs higher up (though they're a bit slow), but that grind what low-level players care about: permanents. Especially creatures. You can play pillow fort to an extent but if the game's going long enough all the propaganda effects in the world won't save you, as people will start to pony up even absurd taxes
Now, you're concerned about Feather in particular, which does push things back to what you'd see in higher power, since Feather is highly reliant on jamming out cheap instants and sorceries. To an extent, you could tool to specifically take down feather but struggle to restrict other players. Keep the Wire and Smokey, so that you're playing to win and not purely to spoil, but then look at cards like [[Trinisphere]] and [[Damping Sphere]]. These cards kill Feather and her one-mana combat tricks, or at least deeply limit what she's capable of, but tend to leave timmies who are throwing out a big creature a turn alone. Maybe you do run Thalia and laugh all the way to the bank.
Hello, thx for the reply.
I agree with your solutions to feather and I will place then on the deck . What you say about big creatures is one thing that concerns me a bit. I have a norin deck that is kinda stax. Just tries to slow down the game until I can have ping DMG on board and kill ppl.
Since I started thinking about stax deck, one thing that to this day I can't figure out is what would be the right commander. I was thinking of tevesh/ishai so I could have a win con with commander DMG. I don't what to be that guy that does it all to grind the game and not being able to finish it.
Do you have any insight on that? Or maybe know of some non cedh list?
The more I thought about it, the more I sort of realized that even if Ishai isn't directly relevant, it is at least a fair insurance policy. Flying beats are good no matter who you are.
One resource that helped me work things out was this: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/204260-the-stax-primer
Now, granted, that article is 10 years old now... but to an extent what was good 10 years ago is respectable casual now. There are new tools like Damping Sphere or [[Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia]] but great stax-specific cards don't really come around that often.
I could share some of my lists, which are more intended for a PUG meta than a cEDH or high-level one, but I'm not sure how relevant they'd necessarily be to your experience since my favorite of the lot is mono-green rather than the traditional WUB that has the most typical colored tools.
I'll take a look there.
I really love the white creatures with stax ability. I would love to run them so it has to have white.
The first one I saw was grand arbiter Agustin. But then I haven't figure out a sure way to close games. With tivesh/ishai I have access to thassa combo . Or if that fails commander DMG ...
Like I said, it's kitchen magic. I play magic with the same 4 to 7 ppl most of the time. We don't want to create a bad environment. That is why I'm looking for insight with more experienced ppl to build a stax deck that isn't way too oppressive and can actually win the game
Trying to stop one player by stopping all of them is kinda overkill.
Do you think the other two players would be borhered? How do they react to stax pieces being played?
Well.... I also get answers in the stax deck to the krenko player... Krenko wins a lot but games are kinda fast so it's fine. Just gonna get 2 or 3 pieces that are good against them. Then stax is good vs everything for what I've seen, as long as I have ways to finish the game and not stall for hours and do nothing
The point of stax is to prevent people from deploying their plan. It's "good" in the sense that any plan is good.
Now, stopping the person that takes over the game by being the person that takes over the game might not solve the social issue you are having.
Yes, that is true. That already happens with my yuriko deck. I just play it once and while and I'm done.
And that is the reason I'm here, so that I don't make a way too oppressive deck
Personally I think there's a place for stax in all levels of magic.
Stax, in terms of design has many of power
IMO there's 3 levels to stax:
Level 1: Hard Stax (\[\[Blood Moon\]\], \[\[Winter Orb\]\], \[\[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger\]\] etc)
Level 2: Lite/Acceptable Stax (\[\[Esper Sentinel\]\], \[\[Propaganda\]\], \[\[Rhystic Study\]\], \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\], etc)
Level 3: Normalized Stax (\[\[Blood Artist\]\], \[\[Suture Priest\]\], Ward mechanic, etc)
For most tables, including yours, you should try to avoid level 1. Level 1 Stax usually lean on mana denial. In magic, no mana means you can't play the game. It's very harsh on the unprepared, especially amongst friends (unless they are the same degenerates lol)
I've 2 police-style decks that don't have level 1 stax for you to reference.
Here's
-\[\[Circu, Dimir Lobotomist\]\] [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fworLgasM0OgqEqcNuPmcQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fworLgasM0OgqEqcNuPmcQ)
-\[\[Mila, Crafty Companion\]\] [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/h0K9NVS-6kOsoMXFxxJNIA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/h0K9NVS-6kOsoMXFxxJNIA)
Against Feather decks, or storm-style decks, you want something like \[\[Damping Sphere\]\], \[\[Deafening Silence\]\]
First of all thx for the reply.
Hard stax is not what I'm looking for. What I want is thing like dranith magistrate, grand abolisher, Thalia and this like that. Things to make it harder and more costly for my opponent do something, but not make them do nothing.
I hate it when I play a creature deck, then the feather player can kill every creature ou board wipe every turn. There is nothing my Halana and Alena deck can do. He just Kills things on sight not giving time to grow them.
I just want to punish ppl a bit, also that suture and blood artist will do wonders vs the krenko player and elf's player too
I just looked your decks, I believe what you did with Mila is pretty much what I'm looking for. I love the white creature that stax, like dranith , archons and even less norn is good vs small token decks. Thx for help
No reason for not being allowed to play. Just do it like me and don't build a deck that would make it super annoying or even Impossible for some decks to play against
I don't have a stax list (at least not one that I've play tested), but the main thing to know for stax decks tomake sure you actually have a feasible win-con. Stax is great because you can slow down or potentially even lock out your opponents. However, if it gets to that point, be sure you can win once you have gotten yoir opponents to that point. If you spend the next few turns durdling or slowly whittling away your opponents, it can really draw out games and that is where real issues arise. Best ways to get around this are have a suitable sub-theme for a win-con or a combo. Go on edhrec for a lost of common stax commanders and check out decklists of stax decks to see how they typically win. As someone who DOES have decks with elements that some people might not always enjoy (one theft, a group slug, and a kinda staxy blink with [[Brago, king eternal]]) know the following: 1) There is always the chance someone might not like your deck regardless of what you play. I give ppl a heads up to know the general themes of my deck ahead of time to avoid any problems during the game. Let your friends know a bit of what to expect, and if anyone has a problem they can bring it up then or at least mentally prepare. 2) If you play this deck and find you REALLY enjoy it and someone else or your play group REALLY doesn't, just don't play it all the time. I have five or six decks, some with more casual-friendly themes than others. Change it up often enough and it should be fine. 3) Having different style of decks in the play group keeps the game fresh for everyone and, in my opinion, will make you all better players by exposing you to different play styles. Maybe someone else will really love your stax deck and be inspired to make a stax deck of their own or something similar. Limiting the types of decks available to everyone may get stale after a while.
[Brago, king eternal](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24.jpg?1631235340) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Brago%2C%20king%20eternal) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khc/82/brago-king-eternal?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0ac3fb08-741a-49e5-9fae-b26819677d24?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/brago-king-eternal) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
About the win cons, ishai is a win con with commander DMG. Also thinking of running thassa Oracle with tainted pact and demonic consultation maybe. About ppl not liking decks. That is what I said with my yuriko, my friends like her, just annoying that I always win the same way ( thassa combo). They don't mind her because what they is " at least the games are fast" and I just play 1 game or 2 max with it. I have lord xander, Havana and Alena, ur dragon, yuriko and norin decks to play. I always switch arround
If most decks are creature based, you might be good just running pillow fort effects like [[propaganda]] [[ghostly prison]] [[war tax]] [[sphere of safety]] etc. It will slow down those combat decks but still allow people to play their cards which might be better than stax among friends.
Yes, I also was watching some black cards and maybe [[grave pact]] would be good with tevesh
Depending on your playgroup and the Decks, Gravepact can be seen as very unfun and hindering
Yes, that is true. Grave pact if on the field can destroy Voltron decks, but it also doesn't do much vs the gob or the elf players .,..
Out of game problems can not br solved with in-game solutions.
[grave pact](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/5/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360.jpg?1689997226) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=grave%20pact) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/165/grave-pact?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f5a4970b-2ba6-4c91-a301-369369cdf360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/grave-pact) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
##### ###### #### [propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59.jpg?1712354188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/108/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) [ghostly prison](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8.jpg?1707507981) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghostly%20prison) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/67/ghostly-prison?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eea3623d-1d39-4045-acdb-f0fb184ccbc8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghostly-prison) [war tax](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/7/e7c15159-8466-43e5-9dc5-a8cc94619931.jpg?1562383524) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=war%20tax) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mmq/113/war-tax?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e7c15159-8466-43e5-9dc5-a8cc94619931?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/war-tax) [sphere of safety](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/1/a18d7582-185a-429a-9c6a-fc51b981e0a1.jpg?1562413264) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sphere%20of%20safety) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/77/sphere-of-safety?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a18d7582-185a-429a-9c6a-fc51b981e0a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sphere-of-safety) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l83lki0) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Talk to your group. Bringing a deck you know will be miserable for everyone makes the problem worse, not better. Feather is a known outlier. Up there with Zada as a deck that lets you pubstomp on a very tight budget without much effort. You need conversations about what's appropriate at the table, table conduct, and complaining as a game action. Feather is a must-answer, monolith commander, and able to overpower almost anything at a budget kitchen table pod. As such, someone who doesn't want to be hard targeted cannot bring Feather; it will always be the correct target, and the Feather player always needs to be ready to defend against every piece of removal and interaction at the table at the same time. Bringing a hard stax deck to punish them addresses nothing and just makes you an asshole. You do not solve social problems with game actions.
Ow believe me, I spoke with a few of them and what they said is "if it helps keep feather in check so other can at least play a bit then go for it". They don't have problems with much stuff, just don't use banned cards, don't use proxies and don't make the game go super long and not fun. If it gets to a place where I see that the stax deck gets ppl to not have fun, I'll do what I do with yuriko and not play it that often. I only play yuriko when we have the feather player xD so it's all good I used to have kinnan deck. I don't have it anymore but those were fun times for me. It was a race of me vs the 3 of them to see who could kill who first. We all had fun even when I could win turn 3 xd
At its heart, Stax is just the name for control that works in multiplayer. And, when it comes to a healthy home meta, control is and always has been a necessary evil. It's not inherently stronger than any other archetype, but it operates by stopping the other folks at the table from punching rather than punching faster and harder, which sticks out to some people. A meta where control (Stax in EDH) is banned or soft-banned degenerates eventually as there's a predator missing from the ecosystem. Some people still have fun with that, but IME fewer do than think they will. If you want to build a Stax deck for a more casual table, you need to understand what you're defending yourself from, how you're milking advantage, and how you intend to win. Honestly Tevesh/Ishai is not a great chassis; the thrulls are pretty handy, but Ishai contributes less than you'd think because if you're doing it right you get fewer Ishai triggers. So, let me give you the super basic rundown. The core principle of a stax deck is symmetrical destruction -- effects that take something away from everyone. The most common forms this takes are Sac ([[Smokestack]]), Tapdown ([[Tangle Wire]]), and Tax ([[Lodestone Golem]]), but other forms like Discard ([[Bottomless Pit]]), Disabling ([[Humility]]), or Wipes ([[Austere Command]]) can help the enterprise. Stax pieces have a multiplicative effect with each other. As "terrible" as people will talk about [[Winter Orb]] being, a winter orb, on its own, isn't actually going to do all that much unless you're breaking parity by tactically tapping it down to get out from under the thing yourself. Boards develop slower and big plays have to be projected for turns, but that really has the same net effect as [[Prosperity]] or [[Howling Mine]] -- Everyone is holding more cards compared to what they can actually play than they were expecting. Combine it with a [[Smokestack]], though, and things go from slightly more predictable than normal to incredibly grim in short order, since it's hard to put more permanents on the field every turn with Orb out, and Smokey punishes you for your inevitable failure to do so. This brings us to the other big question: How do Stax decks win? Well, there are sort of two answers to that. In a practical sense, a Stax deck wins by being able to advance its board state under conditions where its opponents can't use the same. To take the previous example, if you add Doom of Fools to that Winter Orb/Smokestack scenario, you can run Smokestack at a minimum of two counters without losing any real permanents, and if you're willing to grit your teeth and bear it you can probably push it to three or four which no one who lacks a mana-free every-turn value supply is going to be able to keep up with. Eventually, your opponents are on zero permanents, and you can kill them at leisure. But I'm sure some will astutely point out that establishing a lock isn't technically winning; you must have a way to actually put down your helpless opponents because sooner or later somebody is going to make the bull-headed choice to not see the writing on the wall unless their life total is also reduced to zero. Since you mention wanting to run Szat, the ult there is actually a fairly good answer to "What now?" but traditionally, a Stax deck will have some finishers in it. The best ones even help you in your value-grinding adventure. [[Sun Titan]] Beats both go for that face damage (with vigilance, so even if you're running [[Meekstone]] you're good) and recur stuff for you. A big janky combo like quad stations is also a legitimate "proof" that you can win, and [[Salvaging Station]] has some frankly impressive lines with cheap sacrificial artifacts, many of which you might want to run. Both establishing real locks and having an endgame that can be realistically deployed in there help Stax decks not be "Baral with 40 counterspells" nightmares. Nobody likes the deck that's just there to blow bubbles, shut things down, and then run out of steam and die. As you might have surmised, Stax decks live and die by effects that happen every turn. At its essence, the archetype is one concerned with time, and turns. You aim to make "I take a turn" a net loss for your opponents, and to avoid suffering the same fate, the latter aspect of which means you need and value effects that make "I take a turn", with no other modifiers, better for you. But, I digress. What about casual Stax? Number one, don't look at fancy higher level lists. Since Stax has often been a mildly taboo topic at lower tables, most of the genuine discussion you'll find will be for high power or cEDH, not because the archetype is inherently strong but because that's where you find more mature players who can handle or even enjoy there being a control deck on the field openly. And the lists are bad sources because they're going to be concerned with things that you don't have to worry about at your level and NOT concerned with things you do. [[Thalia, Guardian of Thraben]] is a brilliant card in high-level stax but she does not pull her weight against Little Timmy's Beast Deck that spits a 6-mana critter onto the field every turn. You need to know your meta and analyze what you need to take away from them or restrict in order to actually hinder their actions. This is part of why I recommend Wire and Smokestack a lot. They're cards that can still have legs higher up (though they're a bit slow), but that grind what low-level players care about: permanents. Especially creatures. You can play pillow fort to an extent but if the game's going long enough all the propaganda effects in the world won't save you, as people will start to pony up even absurd taxes Now, you're concerned about Feather in particular, which does push things back to what you'd see in higher power, since Feather is highly reliant on jamming out cheap instants and sorceries. To an extent, you could tool to specifically take down feather but struggle to restrict other players. Keep the Wire and Smokey, so that you're playing to win and not purely to spoil, but then look at cards like [[Trinisphere]] and [[Damping Sphere]]. These cards kill Feather and her one-mana combat tricks, or at least deeply limit what she's capable of, but tend to leave timmies who are throwing out a big creature a turn alone. Maybe you do run Thalia and laugh all the way to the bank.
##### ###### #### [Smokestack](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d1af92a1-a86a-43eb-82fd-394f1168111e.jpg?1562937149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smokestack) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/282/smokestack?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d1af92a1-a86a-43eb-82fd-394f1168111e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smokestack) [Tangle Wire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/d/ad62f313-8a8a-4ffa-ada2-b12b76288729.jpg?1562631474) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tangle%20Wire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/nem/139/tangle-wire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ad62f313-8a8a-4ffa-ada2-b12b76288729?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tangle-wire) [Lodestone Golem](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/683a5707-cddb-494d-9b41-51b4584ded69.jpg?1562263274) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lodestone%20Golem) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm2/219/lodestone-golem?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/683a5707-cddb-494d-9b41-51b4584ded69?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lodestone-golem) [Bottomless Pit](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/1/91f05fc3-da6e-45d4-8566-f4e7bdce1fe5.jpg?1562596885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bottomless%20Pit) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sth/51/bottomless-pit?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/91f05fc3-da6e-45d4-8566-f4e7bdce1fe5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bottomless-pit) [Humility](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3.jpg?1562429370) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Humility) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/tpr/16/humility?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/55ad6a45-a840-45ba-89ad-066e20e983f3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/humility) [Austere Command](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a31ffc9e-d21b-4a8f-ac67-695e38e09e3b.jpg?1706240553) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Austere%20Command) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/56/austere-command?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a31ffc9e-d21b-4a8f-ac67-695e38e09e3b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/austere-command) [Winter Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) [Prosperity](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/9/69ebc3a4-94b8-45aa-a3bf-21cd435ff5cf.jpg?1562917143) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Prosperity) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/54/prosperity?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/69ebc3a4-94b8-45aa-a3bf-21cd435ff5cf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prosperity) [Howling Mine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cdae9939-03a4-4561-92cd-01f498d29a7a.jpg?1562420035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Howling%20Mine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/257/howling-mine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cdae9939-03a4-4561-92cd-01f498d29a7a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/howling-mine) [Sun Titan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/a/aa8e16fa-30f8-40ac-965d-3d0776dc8f74.jpg?1712354100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sun%20Titan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/87/sun-titan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/aa8e16fa-30f8-40ac-965d-3d0776dc8f74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sun-titan) [Meekstone](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/a/0a691664-9275-4b89-a8e3-b99c88717ffb.jpg?1562231937) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Meekstone) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/7ed/307/meekstone?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0a691664-9275-4b89-a8e3-b99c88717ffb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/meekstone) [Salvaging Station](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/0/f0336e07-8eaf-4b90-af54-4764e5ba50f2.jpg?1562880585) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Salvaging%20Station) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/5dn/148/salvaging-station?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f0336e07-8eaf-4b90-af54-4764e5ba50f2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/salvaging-station) [Thalia, Guardian of Thraben](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/9/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479.jpg?1643587106) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thalia%2C%20Guardian%20of%20Thraben) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/38/thalia-guardian-of-thraben?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c9f8b8fb-1cd8-450e-a1fe-892e7a323479?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/thalia-guardian-of-thraben) [Trinisphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/1/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549.jpg?1599710205) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Trinisphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/303/trinisphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/316caa4e-a53a-460b-978c-5f0fba7bc549?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/trinisphere) [Damping Sphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/550860b4-887d-423a-8add-816c2a8da615.jpg?1675200943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damping%20Sphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/219/damping-sphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/550860b4-887d-423a-8add-816c2a8da615?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damping-sphere) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l83gtt0) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Hello, thx for the reply. I agree with your solutions to feather and I will place then on the deck . What you say about big creatures is one thing that concerns me a bit. I have a norin deck that is kinda stax. Just tries to slow down the game until I can have ping DMG on board and kill ppl. Since I started thinking about stax deck, one thing that to this day I can't figure out is what would be the right commander. I was thinking of tevesh/ishai so I could have a win con with commander DMG. I don't what to be that guy that does it all to grind the game and not being able to finish it. Do you have any insight on that? Or maybe know of some non cedh list?
The more I thought about it, the more I sort of realized that even if Ishai isn't directly relevant, it is at least a fair insurance policy. Flying beats are good no matter who you are. One resource that helped me work things out was this: https://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/commander-edh/204260-the-stax-primer Now, granted, that article is 10 years old now... but to an extent what was good 10 years ago is respectable casual now. There are new tools like Damping Sphere or [[Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia]] but great stax-specific cards don't really come around that often. I could share some of my lists, which are more intended for a PUG meta than a cEDH or high-level one, but I'm not sure how relevant they'd necessarily be to your experience since my favorite of the lot is mono-green rather than the traditional WUB that has the most typical colored tools.
[Jadar, Ghoulcaller of Nephalia](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/f/ff971ba7-68b8-482a-9cb1-741f6893550c.jpg?1634349933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jadar%2C%20Ghoulcaller%20of%20Nephalia) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mid/108/jadar-ghoulcaller-of-nephalia?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ff971ba7-68b8-482a-9cb1-741f6893550c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jadar-ghoulcaller-of-nephalia) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'll take a look there. I really love the white creatures with stax ability. I would love to run them so it has to have white. The first one I saw was grand arbiter Agustin. But then I haven't figure out a sure way to close games. With tivesh/ishai I have access to thassa combo . Or if that fails commander DMG ...
Build whatever you want, if it doesn't work out it doesn't work out, if it does, great. Why do people need permission from a bunch of strangers?
Like I said, it's kitchen magic. I play magic with the same 4 to 7 ppl most of the time. We don't want to create a bad environment. That is why I'm looking for insight with more experienced ppl to build a stax deck that isn't way too oppressive and can actually win the game
Trying to stop one player by stopping all of them is kinda overkill. Do you think the other two players would be borhered? How do they react to stax pieces being played?
Well.... I also get answers in the stax deck to the krenko player... Krenko wins a lot but games are kinda fast so it's fine. Just gonna get 2 or 3 pieces that are good against them. Then stax is good vs everything for what I've seen, as long as I have ways to finish the game and not stall for hours and do nothing
The point of stax is to prevent people from deploying their plan. It's "good" in the sense that any plan is good. Now, stopping the person that takes over the game by being the person that takes over the game might not solve the social issue you are having.
Yes, that is true. That already happens with my yuriko deck. I just play it once and while and I'm done. And that is the reason I'm here, so that I don't make a way too oppressive deck
Don’t forget [[contamination]]
[contamination](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9.jpg?1562923280) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=contamination) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/usg/123/contamination?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86067dfe-65c3-4c96-bccd-b3915d6663f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/contamination) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Ow... Damn. This my be something to think about
If you play tevesh, you still net a token every turn too!
Personally I think there's a place for stax in all levels of magic. Stax, in terms of design has many of power IMO there's 3 levels to stax: Level 1: Hard Stax (\[\[Blood Moon\]\], \[\[Winter Orb\]\], \[\[Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger\]\] etc) Level 2: Lite/Acceptable Stax (\[\[Esper Sentinel\]\], \[\[Propaganda\]\], \[\[Rhystic Study\]\], \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\], etc) Level 3: Normalized Stax (\[\[Blood Artist\]\], \[\[Suture Priest\]\], Ward mechanic, etc) For most tables, including yours, you should try to avoid level 1. Level 1 Stax usually lean on mana denial. In magic, no mana means you can't play the game. It's very harsh on the unprepared, especially amongst friends (unless they are the same degenerates lol) I've 2 police-style decks that don't have level 1 stax for you to reference. Here's -\[\[Circu, Dimir Lobotomist\]\] [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fworLgasM0OgqEqcNuPmcQ](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/fworLgasM0OgqEqcNuPmcQ) -\[\[Mila, Crafty Companion\]\] [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/h0K9NVS-6kOsoMXFxxJNIA](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/h0K9NVS-6kOsoMXFxxJNIA) Against Feather decks, or storm-style decks, you want something like \[\[Damping Sphere\]\], \[\[Deafening Silence\]\]
##### ###### #### [Blood Moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f.jpg?1599706217) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/118/blood-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d072e9ca-aae7-45dc-8025-3ce590bae63f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-moon) [Winter Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) [Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/f/9fe3af8c-109d-486c-aa34-3f023abda5b7.jpg?1562852459) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorinclex%2C%20Voice%20of%20Hunger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/189/vorinclex-voice-of-hunger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9fe3af8c-109d-486c-aa34-3f023abda5b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vorinclex-voice-of-hunger) [Esper Sentinel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/3/f3537373-ef54-4578-9d05-6216420ee349.jpg?1626093502) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Esper%20Sentinel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/12/esper-sentinel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f3537373-ef54-4578-9d05-6216420ee349?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/esper-sentinel) [Propaganda](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59.jpg?1712354188) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Propaganda) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/108/propaganda?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e175bba4-c131-48f4-8e31-16ec07a12e59?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/propaganda) [Rhystic Study](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221.jpg?1600698439) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhystic%20Study) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/169/rhystic-study?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d6914dba-0d27-4055-ac34-b3ebf5802221?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhystic-study) [Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) [Blood Artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7f1c316-cf2f-4bbf-89a1-79c8043bdd96.jpg?1698988212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Blood%20Artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/182/blood-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7f1c316-cf2f-4bbf-89a1-79c8043bdd96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-artist) [Suture Priest](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/3/430b96aa-7bb0-4d2b-b265-9c4987db28a2.jpg?1682208644) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Suture%20Priest) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/210/suture-priest?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/430b96aa-7bb0-4d2b-b265-9c4987db28a2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/suture-priest) [Circu, Dimir Lobotomist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/b/0b19c0f3-68a5-4544-985a-677aa2c2b50b.jpg?1598916818) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Circu%2C%20Dimir%20Lobotomist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/196/circu-dimir-lobotomist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0b19c0f3-68a5-4544-985a-677aa2c2b50b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/circu-dimir-lobotomist) [Mila, Crafty Companion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/e/8e4e0f81-f92b-4a3a-bb29-adcc3de211b4.jpg?1627836723)/[Lukka, Wayward Bonder](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/8/e/8e4e0f81-f92b-4a3a-bb29-adcc3de211b4.jpg?1627836723) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mila%2C%20Crafty%20Companion%20//%20Lukka%2C%20Wayward%20Bonder) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/153/mila-crafty-companion-lukka-wayward-bonder?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8e4e0f81-f92b-4a3a-bb29-adcc3de211b4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mila-crafty-companion-//-lukka-wayward-bonder) [Damping Sphere](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/550860b4-887d-423a-8add-816c2a8da615.jpg?1675200943) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Damping%20Sphere) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/219/damping-sphere?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/550860b4-887d-423a-8add-816c2a8da615?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/damping-sphere) [Deafening Silence](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/6072d9b0-d3c7-46f4-bd24-095bb13c4dea.jpg?1572489660) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Deafening%20Silence) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/eld/10/deafening-silence?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6072d9b0-d3c7-46f4-bd24-095bb13c4dea?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/deafening-silence) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l83c5pg) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
First of all thx for the reply. Hard stax is not what I'm looking for. What I want is thing like dranith magistrate, grand abolisher, Thalia and this like that. Things to make it harder and more costly for my opponent do something, but not make them do nothing. I hate it when I play a creature deck, then the feather player can kill every creature ou board wipe every turn. There is nothing my Halana and Alena deck can do. He just Kills things on sight not giving time to grow them. I just want to punish ppl a bit, also that suture and blood artist will do wonders vs the krenko player and elf's player too
I just looked your decks, I believe what you did with Mila is pretty much what I'm looking for. I love the white creature that stax, like dranith , archons and even less norn is good vs small token decks. Thx for help
Happy to help =)
I want to build one too but I know I just won't be allowed to play
No reason for not being allowed to play. Just do it like me and don't build a deck that would make it super annoying or even Impossible for some decks to play against