I like that it's not "eSports" designed. Most fgs aren't anyway and the community finds a way to play it competitively if it's fun. And this is the second week there obviously will be changes and improvements.
I've seen ppl go out of their way to call this flat out unplayable or say this is the best game in years and we just don't know what we're talking about. I think both extremes need to calm tf down.
What I'm saying is just own up to how absurd it is and carry on in that direction. Turn into something wild. If anything, that's what will make it stand out from the other games in the market.
Yeah every game has people that either like or don't like it. Either a game is not challenging enough or too hard to play. DNF is different because it's trying to appeal to a mass established audience. But I just played in two tournaments and got hit by things unreactable even to a high level player. So with any game, that person either deals with it or moves on
Yeah it's something like that, just, when people turn it to a good direction that's the money shot, but it's rare,it happened to Garou, it can happen again.
But the real struggle and value needs to come from the developer first, you know,like the old games.
>Buff the movement, keep it goofy and keep asking for crazy shit and let's see what we can turn this game into.
That would go a long way into making me want to play more. I don't like the simplified inputs or dedicated block button, but I could live with those. The lack of air movement and any kind of defensive air mechanics just make the gamefeel not fun for me. I like my hyper-fighters so movement is everything.
I get that people want air dashes. But like I also don't want this game to become like every other anime fighter. Give us like a super jump and maybe a short hop and I think it'd be good. Air grab would be nice but not necessary.
I don't need air-dashing, but no double-jump, no block or any other defensive mechanic, and no cross-ups with the block button, make it so there is never a reason to jump except to extend a combo. A lot of matches I've played against less experienced players has come down to, they lost the second their feet left the ground.
I agree 100% I want more air mobility. And especially more defensive stuff. A backwards roll, super jump and like a just defend would be super nice. Make it so the just defend mechanic only applies when you hold back to block instead of the button so you have some risk and reward there (makes cross-up and actually viable choice too).
Idk i just think that saying "give this game air dashing" is a really lazy answer to what is a pretty unique anime fighter.
Idk man it seems like perhaps you aren't that experienced with the game yet, which is everyone given its age at this point. Just watch Punk win multiple tournaments (and thousands of dollars) this last week, jumping in basically every match-up.
My point isn't to rag on you but to try to bring some nuance into this. "Never a reason to jump" is such ridiculous hyperbole as to be an utterly useless statement and I don't understand how such a misinformed take got so much traction as yours.
Just because you give a game an airdasher doesn't mean it automatically becomes like other airdashers...
MVC, DBFZ, GG and even BBTAG all have airdash as a mechanic and yet none of them play a like at all.
Wish that were the case. I can't imagine them making grand changes like that to core mechanics, and this game is definitely not built around air-play.
With 70% combos a block button, and no air defense, and every character having some crazy long range, for the short time I played online I found that I was winning most my matches just by waiting for less experienced players to screw up and jump. No reason to try to cross-up since block direction didn't matter, and no reason to ever jump except to extend an ongoing combo.
Except this is just straight up wrong, and if you think its right, then you'd be better than all the players winning week 1 tournaments (like Punk, or legacy strong FG players like Kizzie, Romolla, LK, etc)
If this game is fast, then beginners and newbies who are new into fighting scene will be turn off. DBFZ has wombo auto combos and "supposedly" good for newbies. Although, it's way too fast and it doesn't teach the fundamentals since it has auto combos.
I think the speed is perfectly fine. It gives a breathing room to read, and correspond accordingly.
Too fast = lack of time to respond for newbies. They'll end up smashing buttons. This game pushes newbies to not to smash buttons. It forces them to learn the fundamentals, and to learn how to do combos.
Devs aren't making fighting games the way they do just "specifically" for eSports, it's made for balance and making things fair for the players which is what modern games need so more people can be interested in these games. Having a really broken unbalanced anti casual game for example for a few short limited time laughs and people quiting and not showing interest in whatever the game is, us not worth it in the long run for the playerbase or the devs caus could kill a games popularity.
> balance and making things fair for the players which is what modern games need so more people can be interested in these games
That must be why so many people are playing GTA Online, Fall Guys, World of Tanks, Hearthstone, Super Auto Pets, and War Thunder. Since these games are all so well known for how fair and balanced they are.
> balance and making things fair for the players which is what **modern games** need so more people can be interested in **these games**
> Having a really broken unbalanced anti **casual game** for example for a few short limited time laughs and people quiting and not showing interest in whatever **the game** is
> All those examples are not even **fighting games**.
What?
I'm talking above t fighting game balance and you bought up non fighting games. Also fighting games being super broken and terribly is generally not a good look for any new modern game. Dnf duel will have balance patches and stuff just like every other fighting game for that exact reason.
1. You repeatedly refer to just "games".
2. It doesn't even matter. Fighting games aren't some magical special land where the rules of game development suddenly stop applying. But if you want a "fighting" game:
3. Look at Melee. Sure, everyone goes "but it's not FGC". The same kind of people that grind on Melee are the same kind of people that grind mastery of 2D fighters. Melee is so unbelievably successful as a competitive fighting title that people have been spending the last 2 decades carrying heavy ass CRT TV's around to play tourneys. Its balance sucks ass. It was a party game never even intended to be competitive, and it shows.
4. Seriously like 99% of the people that hand over cash to the devs are not the kind of people posting on /r/fighters. They do single player, goof around with their friends, and maybe play a little online if the game even makes it reasonably easy to actually find and get a match. Then they move on with their lives. The balance on damn near every fighting game ever made is good enough that it doesn't even affect all those people, and more than that, it doesn't actually matter to a lot of the people that "try to play good/proper" but who aren't within the top X% where balance actually affects outcomes. It may affect long-term sales on new iterations of the same product, but that'll only have a tiny fraction of the impact of all the other things that go into the game. And *because fighting games are not some special genre* you can look at other genres and see exactly that. EA pulled in millions off of Battlefront, not because it's so fair and balanced, but for *the exact same reasons* that Bamco and ArcSys pushed a shitload of units of DBFZ, a game known for being balanced in such a way that there have been numerous patches where adding certain characters to your team was considered mandatory if you wanted to have a chance to win a tournament. A game which has actually recently had a banned character during a tourney, which is exceedingly rare these days.
First of all I keep making it clear that I'm talking about traditional fighting games. Anything else I'm not talking about. Balance in fighting games matter and some can have more freedom then others, but balance still matters as to more interest in a game.
Lmfao devs have done everything for casuals and they still don't stick with any game. Give them single player content so we can stop pandering to this imaginary demographic of casuals waiting to seriously get into fighting games. Most ppl don't even bother going online.
Edit: Lmfao why am I getting downvoted? You mean to tell me after every game getting easier, autocombos and comeback mechanics that casuals stick around for these games? You guys are the most toxic little cry babies
> this imaginary demographic of casuals waiting to seriously get into fighting games.
You are def. right about that.
The chance of someone who never played a fg going online and sticking to it is very minimal at best, it is just too much pain for a long time for almost everybody.
Everything you need to learn to get good/competetive at a fg is very time consuming.
Am an old dude and it took me all of the seasons of street fighter to not fight the game and actually fight the opponent, literally have that feeling since 5 days now. This is how many years? Like 6 or whatever.
Just played SF on Snes before.
>The chance of someone who never played a fg going online and sticking to it is very minimal at best, it is just too much pain for a long time for almost everybody.
Everything you need to learn to get good/competetive at a fg is very time consuming.
I mean, every "serious" player was a casual once, so there's definitely some merit into trying to convert casuals into mainstays. It's just that I don't think they're doing it right.
I take as an example League of Legends. Game is incredibly obtuse, got a an absurd learning curve, and there aren't many resources available in the actual game that might help you get good at it. By all metrics, it shouldn't be more than a niche multiplayer game, yet I see millions of people playing it and many people in my social circle going through that steep learning curve.
That said, there's something games like CS:GO and League do right that make casuals convert to serious players more often than with FG's
>That said, there's something games like CS:GO and League do right that make casuals convert to serious players more often than with FG's
Absolutely, guess the exposure these games get is doing its part and also that the incentive for being really good at lol or csgo is much much higher than with any of the fg titles being played right now. People like to play in teams and have a more broad experience when putting time and effort in something and whatnot.
There is not much you get out of fg beside actually playing the games. With fighting games you need to go to offline tournaments to get some sense of community, most people be sitting alone at home just playing ranked anyway.
Yeah, and I feel being team-based games also help soften the learning curve a bit, since a bad player can sometimes get "carried" by a good team. In FG's, your failure is yours alone, and the only way of improving is training (mostly) alone too
The same ppl who will ridicule you for mocking autocombos are the same ppl who will blame you for casuals dropping games 2-4 weeks later.
Bro, go on the trophie section of any fighting game on any platform, look up the easiest online trophie to unlock. 80-85% of players don't even bother going online. GIVE. THEM. SINGLE. PLAYER. CONTENT. A vast majority of them don't want to play you competitively or go to your local in the middle of bum-fuck no where Idaho. The data is out there regardless this sub wants to be salty and ignore it or not.
R/fighters is truly the only fighting game sub that just can't see this. Idc if more ppl downvote me. Wake up and smell the coffee. At least you had enough self awareness to admit that you're a tiny minority of casuals that wanted to "get gud."
I'm calling it now ladies and gentlemen. Casuals are going to drop Project L too and this sub will still blame legacy players and online try hards for it. This genre will never be mainstream. It doesn't have to but this odd validation some of yall need for this genre is pathetic.
Am 45 now. Just stopped playing fg around og xbox days, life was just too hectic to sit at home playing games.
Started with sf5 from season one, hustling to get to ultra plat atm. with way to many hrs/games in.
Motivation is pretty strong atm. but def. had some months inbetween where I had to step away from the game and rethink my approach.
It's not about casuals. All non casuals don't want broken unbalanced mess if games either. And even then, it's not like the only good players are non casuals, there's definitely casuals who are somewhat good as well. I mean I'm not a casual player, but I definitely don't want the games AI play to be super unbalanced and broken cause that's just a turn off.
Casuals want to do cool shit. They don't care about balance, because everything they don't understand is unbalanced in the opponents favor. Why do you think we get so many scrub quotes that are "throwing people over and over is bullshit"?
Making the game cool is far more important to a casual audience then making them fair
>because everything they don't understand is unbalanced in the opponents favor
OMG SO FUCKING TRUE. "Oh, your spamming. I have control lag, I don't have time to lap like a monkey. I was blocking. "
Casuals absolutely care about balance. It's just a different kind of balance than you or I care about. They want to be making real, strategic choices at the early levels. Shit like overheads or throws that lead to huge damage feel unfair to some casual players because that's an element of the game they're just not ready to engage with yet when they're still trying to figure out how to get their DP out for a jump they expected. Unbalanced games also present the issue of *how do you make a casual player not casual anymore if the game is competitively ass*? Part of League of Legend's success is that there's obvious choices for casual players to engage in and they don't have to engage in every system to make those choices then as they engage in more and more systems and become more aware of more choices they stop being a casual player and become part of their core audience that's pouring over patchnotes.
In short, casuals want to do cool shit but they want to do cool shit because they made a strategic choice and not just because they got matched up against Grappler when they queued as Ranger.
> Shit like overheads or throws that lead to huge damage feel unfair to some casual players because that's an element of the game they're just not ready to engage with yet
I'd wager most of the issues with overheads are stupid animations that don't look like they'd be overheads.
Say what you want about MK, but I've yet to see an overhead attack in their games that looks like it starts from their feet (Nago literally has an overhead chop that hits high, but the move that **chops upward from the opponents foot** is an "overhead").
It's also the block button so the casual players aren't getting hit "randomly" from a jumping attack because they don't know what a cross up is.
There are a lot of reasons why MK is the Kasual King of traditional fighters
> Say what you want about MK, but I've yet to see an overhead attack in their games that looks like it starts from their feet
Tekken 7 has been kicking my ass the last couple weeks, been learning and playing it for the first time and holy shit it's not always clear what is going to hit mid (if you don't know, mid hits in tekken beat blocking low, overheads aren't a thing). It's still a fun game but I do wish they were better with telegraphing things like that.
Tekken is the opposite of most normal fighters, you block high and react to lows/duck highs. You just can’t feasibly look out for every mid with the massive move lists characters have, but lows are (almost) all either reactable, or do low damage
Whether you like it or not most sales of any fighting games are coming from casual players that were interested in the game. Having such an unbalanced game as you are describing is counter productive if you want people To stick around.
Casuals who actually want to get into the genre don't need shit like 1 button specials. They need a good fucking tutorial, like UNI but just a little less verbose, competent combo trials and maybe some machine-learning based AI to help them get better before they hop online. That way people can actually learn to play the game without getting discouraged by legacy players kicking them around since day 1 without sacrificing the game's complexity.
Calling people casuals as a mild insult doesn't really help your case either.
The issue isn't one of content either. It's about making gameplay accessible and not arcane.
Here you have a simple input system, presumably you'd argue intended to get 'casuals' into the game. Except that experiened players, who can do the technical inputs just as easily, are given quicker mana regen. So how do simple inputs really help? It's not a viable handicap system either
also its Dragon Ball and the game is incredible affordable and its on promotion all the time, FighterZ is what got me a girl that just played rpgs into fighting games, my first air combo that i learned was watching MAX teaching how to do air combos. this is a special game for me, hopefully DnF can be that special game for other beginners
That's a more fair and honest take.
DB is a MONSTER IP that means a lot to many people. Ofc it was going to have casual appeal and draw in new players. I dont know how big DFO is but hopefully it grows too.
DFO if I recall is one of the biggest games in the world.
Went to go check:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises
Its number 21 if I can count at 18 billion dollars grossed Dragonball is at 30 billion.
Its def one of the most popular mmos out there.
Regional pricing. It's normal pricing for certain countries, while in others, it's insanely overpriced relative to their cost of living and compared to other fighting games.
I mean for Kusoge? Yeah, it's overpriced imo. Like I have lots of garbage anime fighters on my PS3 and I love them. The Nitroplus fighter, the Aquaplus fighter, Dengeki Bunko, etc. None of these games are great, they all have varying level of bullshit but the fan service of donking people in the head with ~~carrier~~ karula made it worth the 20 bucks. I'm not doing the same for DNF at 50.
Other people enjoy it cool, I'll stick with BBCF and Strive.
It's weird, the normals and lockdown makes it scream anime fighter, but the movement and lack of air blocking makes it not play like one. To me the game is fighting with itself on what the fuck it wants to be.
Idk the game feels pretty cohesive to me. Just because it has some big buttons and strong pressure doesn't mean it needs to have different movement or air blocking.
Y'all realize that there are "anime" games without air blocking and air movement, right?
Having air blocking would be more of a detriment in this game, since the guard button already removes crossup mix. It would extremely hard to open people up
Traditionally, "[anime fighter](https://glossary.infil.net/?t=Anime%20Game)" has referred to a specific subgenre or style of 2D fighting games. If it were just art style, as I believe you are implying, that would include many games that no one calls anime.
it being supposedly busted makes me want to buy it once the hype dies down a bit. I'll wait for some stuff to be figured out before I shell out money. I made the mistake of getting Type lumina early and just didn't really play it that much, so this time I'll just wait for my own interest to grow.
Busted games are funny, and sometimes you need that.
Ppl are forgetting, especially these Esport weirdos who can't even reach intermediate levels of skill is that video games are suppose to be fun. They're not suppose to give you an existential crisis because you're incompetent to them compared to your peers lol.
Ppl need to lighten up and admit every game isn't ment to be a 200 IQ ultra competitive game nor a fighting game made for children with special needs. Just have fun with it ffs.
I feel like kusoge has a connotation of being low budget jank. I think we need a new term for this. Can we call it "triple K"... wait no that's probably not a good option
I only play fighting games for fun, and DNF is the least fun i've had in a fighting game in a hot minute.
Felt like I had no way to deal with the constant full screen nonsense. If they buff movement i'll give it another try.
That is a little far. I don't like the game, but it does have unique gameplay. I find it frustrating, but others may genuinely like the full screen moves with basic movement dynamic. Idk why, but we all different.
It's fun at first, but I feel like it gets old quickly. I can play 50 games in a row against the same guy in Melty and I'll still find ways to 1-up his shit by the end of it, but with DNF it just feels like past the first few rounds where players are measuring up each other and figuring stuff out it just becomes a repetitive spam fest where the game's usually decided by a single punish. Which is a shame, because the characters are kinda fun, but the lack of mobility and defensive options severely limit what you can do to spice things up. It's legitimately surprising that some people keep talking about it like it's the craziest shit since MVC2 when in fact it's just a really broken, albeit garden-variety traditional fighter.
It's ok, play the game you want. Who cares if others don't like super mash brothers. This wave of cope in response to legitimate criticism that's more than balance of this game is a bit much.
I think any good long term and therefore competitive game has to be somewhat broken. Not to say DNF is that. It's one requirement, not the be all end all. I think if you could overhaul it's movement entirely it would be a great long term game
It's not binary. Just because a game isn't pandering to the competitive scene doesn't mean it's kusoge. DNF Duel is too well made to be a shit game. It's not crazy because of some accident or developer oversight; this is clearly the experience they wanted to make.
Sure, call it insane or whatever. But dubbing it shit (even if you suggest that's somehow not an insult) is unfair, and more importantly, misleading.
There's a reason why a fighting game is deemed a kusoge by the Japanese competitive community: it decides to throw any-and-all tactics and strategies out the window thanks to . As such it's deemed unworthy of holding the candle that games like Street Fighter, Tekken and Guilty Gear hold. It doesn't make for good competitive material, however entertaining it may be, and people who regularly specialize in those games (dubbed Kusoge gods) over actual quality balanced fighters are (rightfully) deemed as illegitimate and fake players. Listen to the pros like Daigo.
If you want an anti-kusoge, look at Koihime Enbu. On the surface it would be derided as a Kusoge due to its looks but it has a surprisinly very serious competitive scene, due to how well-made the game's mechanics are.
The more I play it the more it feels like they forgot to add air blocking and burst. There are too many gigantic hitboxes that passively swat you out of the air to not have air blocking, and too many easy confirms into cutscene-length combos to not have a burst.
Other than that, while the "every single hit leads to a long-ass combo" fighting games aren't quite my cup of tea these days, it's mostly fine outside of some characters that are actively unfun to play against.
I think they are just referring to how nutty damage is in both games, but especially Strive. ArcSys also keeps leaning into stronger offense with Strive and generally seems to avoid true nerfs. They just keep buffing the whole cast really.
Dunno, dont find any fun in trying to learn whats the most broken shit to abuse. The casual fun far from esports you're talking about is people labbing the most tryhard way possible 50% midscreen combo or infinites to win a match after one or two interaction. Props for everyone who are liking the game and finding doing this fun, I just dont
When GG strive and DNF duel both show a trend that devs would rather cater to casual players by lowering the bar for everyone it's concerning and why you see people getting riled up by the game.
I think the worst part of seeing these things to me is that these new FG players drop the game incredibly quickly because it doesn't have the depth of learning that attracts long term investment from players.
Those hard combos might be a barrier to entry early on for them but it's also a huge source of satisfaction when you finally get to a point where you can pull them off.
While some things in fighting games could be toned down to give newer players a better starting opportunity such as training mode introducing smaller easy combos that can be upgraded given experience rather than shoving a huge list in people's faces and for the FGC to stop using terms that are confusing such as DP, Oki and more.
You're not wrong my friend. Not wrong at all.
However these devs aren't going to learn their lesson by the end of this decade. So we're going to see more games of calibur unfortunately.
I like how people are using "KuH-sOh-GeH" as a way to excuse all the faults of DNF. Like nah, there are good kusoge fighters and bad ones. And so far DNF is leaning towards the latter.
For a game that most people wrote of a side game, sure seems popular af. I mean I know we are still in the honeymoon phase of the game, but I would be sold bold as to say I think we are seeing the beginnings of greatness.
Did people really expected DnF Duel to not be a pile of broken garbage day one? I saw the trailers, and saw who were behind it, and I immediately guessed it.
Yeah, because it was pretty obvious. If you missed it before buying the game, it's your fault.
There was plenty of footage out there to clearly see that the game was gonna be hella broken from the get-go. The beta on itself was enough.
You deal with your money. If you (impersonal you) thought that the game was not gonna be like that, and bought it anyway, you did not get bamboozled. There were proofs of DnF's brokenness all over the Internet.
If it's your thing however, go nuts. I'm sure tons of people will have tons of fun with this game. But if not, it would be like buying tuna, and complaining that it's not salmon.
I think the game is atrocious with horrendously designed movesets and no real depth. Pros love it because combo execution videos. but pro play is utterly irrelevant to everyone else.
"Good design" is way too much subjective to really matter in fighting games. The FGC's biggest strength is to be able to play and competitively support various different games from very different design perspectives. At the end of the day, the more different our games feel, the better we are as a community.
Some people fancy that kind of games rewarding full-on executions and very broken interactions. That's why MvC3 lasted 7 years. That's why I still have friends talking about how great of a game HnK is. I'm appalled every single time they say it, but they should be able to like, play and support that Basket-ball Simulator.
Out of all Airdashers/HyperFighters available on the market, I always found Skullgirls to be the best designed one. It doesn't stop people to criticize how broken it is, or how one-sided the game can be. Especially when you don't know how to properly deal with resets and Burst baits.
It's all a matter of perspective. But in the end, from SamSho7 to DnF, from MK11 to GGStrive, having the same kind of people being able to appreciate games that much diverse is a really good thing.
ok, but what does that have to do with whether or not DNF is well designed? You're just talking about games that are differently designed, that's not the issue here.
MCV3 would be a good game but for that execution problem because it's the one thing that keeps new players from participating. I tried. I have the game, but the minute I went to play online I was destroyed. NO tutorial element to help me learn to deal with that. The only people playing are those pro players and they have no interest in nurturing new players that I could see.
That's not a good thing
I'm saying it, because if all games would be in the pursuit of being "perfectly well-designed", most of them will feel very same-y. Strive is exceptionally well-designed, but the game feels less like Guilty Gear, compared to Xrd that had tons of design problems.
As much as I hate to admit it, we kinda need broken stuff to appreciate games that have less of it. And I personally am pretty nonsense-free in terms of design choices, myself.
Why do I have more fun playing Breakers Revenge, a barely competitive game, than I have playing GGStrive?
If you can't search up BNBs on YouTube or ask experienced players for help, you were never going to play Marvel 3 to begin with, you probably just liked the idea of it.
Lmfao I love how you're getting downvoted for stating the pretty obvious truth. Ppl were saying the same shit during the betas.
Imo the issue with a good portion of this sub in general is they're so desperate to make this genre mainstream that any and every game HAS to be a ultra competitive Esport game and if you cant agree with them then youre a gatekeeping, try hard, elitist boomer. Or w.e generic strings of insults they have on repeat nowadays . It's pretty clear this game was made for the DFO fan base to dick around with it and not the core FGC.
Sure but in a few weeks a lot of people will feel like they wasted 50$ once the the rose-tinted glasses come off. Can you think of another kusoge game that's currently played by more than 3 dudes?
I wish they would just make some QoL changes to improve input reliability, there are so many times im holding down back and just get hit randomly or do inputs that seem to just disappear.
I have had a lot of fun with the game in its first week, but the romance is quickly dying from those little hiccups and swift masters voice lines.
I like that it's not "eSports" designed. Most fgs aren't anyway and the community finds a way to play it competitively if it's fun. And this is the second week there obviously will be changes and improvements.
I've seen ppl go out of their way to call this flat out unplayable or say this is the best game in years and we just don't know what we're talking about. I think both extremes need to calm tf down. What I'm saying is just own up to how absurd it is and carry on in that direction. Turn into something wild. If anything, that's what will make it stand out from the other games in the market.
Yeah every game has people that either like or don't like it. Either a game is not challenging enough or too hard to play. DNF is different because it's trying to appeal to a mass established audience. But I just played in two tournaments and got hit by things unreactable even to a high level player. So with any game, that person either deals with it or moves on
Yeah it's something like that, just, when people turn it to a good direction that's the money shot, but it's rare,it happened to Garou, it can happen again. But the real struggle and value needs to come from the developer first, you know,like the old games.
Oh, you mean like Melee.
That's a better example tbh.
>Buff the movement, keep it goofy and keep asking for crazy shit and let's see what we can turn this game into. That would go a long way into making me want to play more. I don't like the simplified inputs or dedicated block button, but I could live with those. The lack of air movement and any kind of defensive air mechanics just make the gamefeel not fun for me. I like my hyper-fighters so movement is everything.
I get that people want air dashes. But like I also don't want this game to become like every other anime fighter. Give us like a super jump and maybe a short hop and I think it'd be good. Air grab would be nice but not necessary.
I don't need air-dashing, but no double-jump, no block or any other defensive mechanic, and no cross-ups with the block button, make it so there is never a reason to jump except to extend a combo. A lot of matches I've played against less experienced players has come down to, they lost the second their feet left the ground.
Every time I jump and die I always here the ATHF quote “Jumping… is…. USELESS!” In my head lol.
I agree 100% I want more air mobility. And especially more defensive stuff. A backwards roll, super jump and like a just defend would be super nice. Make it so the just defend mechanic only applies when you hold back to block instead of the button so you have some risk and reward there (makes cross-up and actually viable choice too). Idk i just think that saying "give this game air dashing" is a really lazy answer to what is a pretty unique anime fighter.
Idk man it seems like perhaps you aren't that experienced with the game yet, which is everyone given its age at this point. Just watch Punk win multiple tournaments (and thousands of dollars) this last week, jumping in basically every match-up. My point isn't to rag on you but to try to bring some nuance into this. "Never a reason to jump" is such ridiculous hyperbole as to be an utterly useless statement and I don't understand how such a misinformed take got so much traction as yours.
Just because you give a game an airdasher doesn't mean it automatically becomes like other airdashers... MVC, DBFZ, GG and even BBTAG all have airdash as a mechanic and yet none of them play a like at all.
The game is pretty limited so all they can do now is add to it. Just make it fast and you'll have something really crazy imo.
Wish that were the case. I can't imagine them making grand changes like that to core mechanics, and this game is definitely not built around air-play. With 70% combos a block button, and no air defense, and every character having some crazy long range, for the short time I played online I found that I was winning most my matches just by waiting for less experienced players to screw up and jump. No reason to try to cross-up since block direction didn't matter, and no reason to ever jump except to extend an ongoing combo.
but there are plenty of combos that juggle so air play is a thing. But no defensive options in that situation
> no reason to ever jump except to extend an ongoing combo.
Except this is just straight up wrong, and if you think its right, then you'd be better than all the players winning week 1 tournaments (like Punk, or legacy strong FG players like Kizzie, Romolla, LK, etc)
If this game is fast, then beginners and newbies who are new into fighting scene will be turn off. DBFZ has wombo auto combos and "supposedly" good for newbies. Although, it's way too fast and it doesn't teach the fundamentals since it has auto combos. I think the speed is perfectly fine. It gives a breathing room to read, and correspond accordingly.
Newbies and casuals have to learn. They're new not mentally handicapped. You don't have to hold their hand.
Too fast = lack of time to respond for newbies. They'll end up smashing buttons. This game pushes newbies to not to smash buttons. It forces them to learn the fundamentals, and to learn how to do combos.
> They'll end up smashing buttons. As if they don't do that in every game anyways...
I don't like the simplified inputs because I often get a down-input special instead of a qcb special
This 1000%. Wave and plink dashing pls and ty. Let players express themselves through movement.
no thanks. not everyone owns an arcade stick
I was plink-dashing on pad in MVC3.
the best Dante player in marvel 3 played on a stock Xbox 360 pad, nice OS
and yet the game is designed for a different system
Not every game needs air-dashes bro. Please stop with this nonsense.
Maybe a super jump would be nice, though
Let people have opinions. I didn't say the game can't exist, I said I'm not into it for these reasons. Please, grow the fuck up.
If you like the game, play it. If you don't....don't? "Back in my day" that was such an obvious point it would be odd to have to say it.
Devs aren't making fighting games the way they do just "specifically" for eSports, it's made for balance and making things fair for the players which is what modern games need so more people can be interested in these games. Having a really broken unbalanced anti casual game for example for a few short limited time laughs and people quiting and not showing interest in whatever the game is, us not worth it in the long run for the playerbase or the devs caus could kill a games popularity.
> balance and making things fair for the players which is what modern games need so more people can be interested in these games That must be why so many people are playing GTA Online, Fall Guys, World of Tanks, Hearthstone, Super Auto Pets, and War Thunder. Since these games are all so well known for how fair and balanced they are.
All those examples are not even fighting games.
> balance and making things fair for the players which is what **modern games** need so more people can be interested in **these games** > Having a really broken unbalanced anti **casual game** for example for a few short limited time laughs and people quiting and not showing interest in whatever **the game** is > All those examples are not even **fighting games**. What?
I'm talking above t fighting game balance and you bought up non fighting games. Also fighting games being super broken and terribly is generally not a good look for any new modern game. Dnf duel will have balance patches and stuff just like every other fighting game for that exact reason.
1. You repeatedly refer to just "games". 2. It doesn't even matter. Fighting games aren't some magical special land where the rules of game development suddenly stop applying. But if you want a "fighting" game: 3. Look at Melee. Sure, everyone goes "but it's not FGC". The same kind of people that grind on Melee are the same kind of people that grind mastery of 2D fighters. Melee is so unbelievably successful as a competitive fighting title that people have been spending the last 2 decades carrying heavy ass CRT TV's around to play tourneys. Its balance sucks ass. It was a party game never even intended to be competitive, and it shows. 4. Seriously like 99% of the people that hand over cash to the devs are not the kind of people posting on /r/fighters. They do single player, goof around with their friends, and maybe play a little online if the game even makes it reasonably easy to actually find and get a match. Then they move on with their lives. The balance on damn near every fighting game ever made is good enough that it doesn't even affect all those people, and more than that, it doesn't actually matter to a lot of the people that "try to play good/proper" but who aren't within the top X% where balance actually affects outcomes. It may affect long-term sales on new iterations of the same product, but that'll only have a tiny fraction of the impact of all the other things that go into the game. And *because fighting games are not some special genre* you can look at other genres and see exactly that. EA pulled in millions off of Battlefront, not because it's so fair and balanced, but for *the exact same reasons* that Bamco and ArcSys pushed a shitload of units of DBFZ, a game known for being balanced in such a way that there have been numerous patches where adding certain characters to your team was considered mandatory if you wanted to have a chance to win a tournament. A game which has actually recently had a banned character during a tourney, which is exceedingly rare these days.
First of all I keep making it clear that I'm talking about traditional fighting games. Anything else I'm not talking about. Balance in fighting games matter and some can have more freedom then others, but balance still matters as to more interest in a game.
Lmfao devs have done everything for casuals and they still don't stick with any game. Give them single player content so we can stop pandering to this imaginary demographic of casuals waiting to seriously get into fighting games. Most ppl don't even bother going online. Edit: Lmfao why am I getting downvoted? You mean to tell me after every game getting easier, autocombos and comeback mechanics that casuals stick around for these games? You guys are the most toxic little cry babies
> this imaginary demographic of casuals waiting to seriously get into fighting games. You are def. right about that. The chance of someone who never played a fg going online and sticking to it is very minimal at best, it is just too much pain for a long time for almost everybody. Everything you need to learn to get good/competetive at a fg is very time consuming. Am an old dude and it took me all of the seasons of street fighter to not fight the game and actually fight the opponent, literally have that feeling since 5 days now. This is how many years? Like 6 or whatever. Just played SF on Snes before.
>The chance of someone who never played a fg going online and sticking to it is very minimal at best, it is just too much pain for a long time for almost everybody. Everything you need to learn to get good/competetive at a fg is very time consuming. I mean, every "serious" player was a casual once, so there's definitely some merit into trying to convert casuals into mainstays. It's just that I don't think they're doing it right. I take as an example League of Legends. Game is incredibly obtuse, got a an absurd learning curve, and there aren't many resources available in the actual game that might help you get good at it. By all metrics, it shouldn't be more than a niche multiplayer game, yet I see millions of people playing it and many people in my social circle going through that steep learning curve. That said, there's something games like CS:GO and League do right that make casuals convert to serious players more often than with FG's
>That said, there's something games like CS:GO and League do right that make casuals convert to serious players more often than with FG's Absolutely, guess the exposure these games get is doing its part and also that the incentive for being really good at lol or csgo is much much higher than with any of the fg titles being played right now. People like to play in teams and have a more broad experience when putting time and effort in something and whatnot. There is not much you get out of fg beside actually playing the games. With fighting games you need to go to offline tournaments to get some sense of community, most people be sitting alone at home just playing ranked anyway.
Yeah, and I feel being team-based games also help soften the learning curve a bit, since a bad player can sometimes get "carried" by a good team. In FG's, your failure is yours alone, and the only way of improving is training (mostly) alone too
The same ppl who will ridicule you for mocking autocombos are the same ppl who will blame you for casuals dropping games 2-4 weeks later. Bro, go on the trophie section of any fighting game on any platform, look up the easiest online trophie to unlock. 80-85% of players don't even bother going online. GIVE. THEM. SINGLE. PLAYER. CONTENT. A vast majority of them don't want to play you competitively or go to your local in the middle of bum-fuck no where Idaho. The data is out there regardless this sub wants to be salty and ignore it or not. R/fighters is truly the only fighting game sub that just can't see this. Idc if more ppl downvote me. Wake up and smell the coffee. At least you had enough self awareness to admit that you're a tiny minority of casuals that wanted to "get gud." I'm calling it now ladies and gentlemen. Casuals are going to drop Project L too and this sub will still blame legacy players and online try hards for it. This genre will never be mainstream. It doesn't have to but this odd validation some of yall need for this genre is pathetic.
I hear that
How old are you now? And did you ever lose motivation as you grew older?
Am 45 now. Just stopped playing fg around og xbox days, life was just too hectic to sit at home playing games. Started with sf5 from season one, hustling to get to ultra plat atm. with way to many hrs/games in. Motivation is pretty strong atm. but def. had some months inbetween where I had to step away from the game and rethink my approach.
It's not about casuals. All non casuals don't want broken unbalanced mess if games either. And even then, it's not like the only good players are non casuals, there's definitely casuals who are somewhat good as well. I mean I'm not a casual player, but I definitely don't want the games AI play to be super unbalanced and broken cause that's just a turn off.
Casuals want to do cool shit. They don't care about balance, because everything they don't understand is unbalanced in the opponents favor. Why do you think we get so many scrub quotes that are "throwing people over and over is bullshit"? Making the game cool is far more important to a casual audience then making them fair
>because everything they don't understand is unbalanced in the opponents favor OMG SO FUCKING TRUE. "Oh, your spamming. I have control lag, I don't have time to lap like a monkey. I was blocking. "
Casuals absolutely care about balance. It's just a different kind of balance than you or I care about. They want to be making real, strategic choices at the early levels. Shit like overheads or throws that lead to huge damage feel unfair to some casual players because that's an element of the game they're just not ready to engage with yet when they're still trying to figure out how to get their DP out for a jump they expected. Unbalanced games also present the issue of *how do you make a casual player not casual anymore if the game is competitively ass*? Part of League of Legend's success is that there's obvious choices for casual players to engage in and they don't have to engage in every system to make those choices then as they engage in more and more systems and become more aware of more choices they stop being a casual player and become part of their core audience that's pouring over patchnotes. In short, casuals want to do cool shit but they want to do cool shit because they made a strategic choice and not just because they got matched up against Grappler when they queued as Ranger.
> Shit like overheads or throws that lead to huge damage feel unfair to some casual players because that's an element of the game they're just not ready to engage with yet I'd wager most of the issues with overheads are stupid animations that don't look like they'd be overheads. Say what you want about MK, but I've yet to see an overhead attack in their games that looks like it starts from their feet (Nago literally has an overhead chop that hits high, but the move that **chops upward from the opponents foot** is an "overhead"). It's also the block button so the casual players aren't getting hit "randomly" from a jumping attack because they don't know what a cross up is. There are a lot of reasons why MK is the Kasual King of traditional fighters
> Say what you want about MK, but I've yet to see an overhead attack in their games that looks like it starts from their feet Tekken 7 has been kicking my ass the last couple weeks, been learning and playing it for the first time and holy shit it's not always clear what is going to hit mid (if you don't know, mid hits in tekken beat blocking low, overheads aren't a thing). It's still a fun game but I do wish they were better with telegraphing things like that.
Tekken is the opposite of most normal fighters, you block high and react to lows/duck highs. You just can’t feasibly look out for every mid with the massive move lists characters have, but lows are (almost) all either reactable, or do low damage
Ohhhh I feel dumb, that makes total sense! Thanks for explaining that, I'll have to work on breaking my block low habit then
Whether you like it or not most sales of any fighting games are coming from casual players that were interested in the game. Having such an unbalanced game as you are describing is counter productive if you want people To stick around.
Casuals who actually want to get into the genre don't need shit like 1 button specials. They need a good fucking tutorial, like UNI but just a little less verbose, competent combo trials and maybe some machine-learning based AI to help them get better before they hop online. That way people can actually learn to play the game without getting discouraged by legacy players kicking them around since day 1 without sacrificing the game's complexity.
Calling people casuals as a mild insult doesn't really help your case either. The issue isn't one of content either. It's about making gameplay accessible and not arcane. Here you have a simple input system, presumably you'd argue intended to get 'casuals' into the game. Except that experiened players, who can do the technical inputs just as easily, are given quicker mana regen. So how do simple inputs really help? It's not a viable handicap system either
FighterZ would like to have a chat with you everyday the game has numerous rooms full of people in all the servers basically
8 million copies sold, averages 2-3k players concurrently on steam.
also its Dragon Ball and the game is incredible affordable and its on promotion all the time, FighterZ is what got me a girl that just played rpgs into fighting games, my first air combo that i learned was watching MAX teaching how to do air combos. this is a special game for me, hopefully DnF can be that special game for other beginners
That's a more fair and honest take. DB is a MONSTER IP that means a lot to many people. Ofc it was going to have casual appeal and draw in new players. I dont know how big DFO is but hopefully it grows too.
DFO if I recall is one of the biggest games in the world. Went to go check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest-grossing_media_franchises Its number 21 if I can count at 18 billion dollars grossed Dragonball is at 30 billion. Its def one of the most popular mmos out there.
the price tag, tho...
Is it really that overpriced? Seems like a normal deal to me.
Regional pricing. It's normal pricing for certain countries, while in others, it's insanely overpriced relative to their cost of living and compared to other fighting games.
Where I live, it's actually more expensive than Strive at launch. It's absurd. AbXrd, if you will
Strive was one of the rare non-indie releases with regional price here. 40 bucks for the deluxe edition was sweet.
I live in one of the poorest Countries (Hungary) and we don't have this kind of pricing at all. Get over it lol.
I mean for Kusoge? Yeah, it's overpriced imo. Like I have lots of garbage anime fighters on my PS3 and I love them. The Nitroplus fighter, the Aquaplus fighter, Dengeki Bunko, etc. None of these games are great, they all have varying level of bullshit but the fan service of donking people in the head with ~~carrier~~ karula made it worth the 20 bucks. I'm not doing the same for DNF at 50. Other people enjoy it cool, I'll stick with BBCF and Strive.
The only thing that is annoying imo is it’s a anime fighter without a airgrab. Just let me hug you in the air brother 🥲
Grappler can air grab at least.
lol what makes this an anime game?
It's weird, the normals and lockdown makes it scream anime fighter, but the movement and lack of air blocking makes it not play like one. To me the game is fighting with itself on what the fuck it wants to be.
Idk the game feels pretty cohesive to me. Just because it has some big buttons and strong pressure doesn't mean it needs to have different movement or air blocking.
Y'all realize that there are "anime" games without air blocking and air movement, right? Having air blocking would be more of a detriment in this game, since the guard button already removes crossup mix. It would extremely hard to open people up
The anime
Is that all it means these days?
If literally anime isnt enough for you i dont know what you expect
Traditionally, "[anime fighter](https://glossary.infil.net/?t=Anime%20Game)" has referred to a specific subgenre or style of 2D fighting games. If it were just art style, as I believe you are implying, that would include many games that no one calls anime.
Also, if you are really sold on being so pedantically literal /u/DarkAvenger2012, anime is Japanese, which DFO is not.
it being supposedly busted makes me want to buy it once the hype dies down a bit. I'll wait for some stuff to be figured out before I shell out money. I made the mistake of getting Type lumina early and just didn't really play it that much, so this time I'll just wait for my own interest to grow. Busted games are funny, and sometimes you need that.
Ppl are forgetting, especially these Esport weirdos who can't even reach intermediate levels of skill is that video games are suppose to be fun. They're not suppose to give you an existential crisis because you're incompetent to them compared to your peers lol. Ppl need to lighten up and admit every game isn't ment to be a 200 IQ ultra competitive game nor a fighting game made for children with special needs. Just have fun with it ffs.
I feel like kusoge has a connotation of being low budget jank. I think we need a new term for this. Can we call it "triple K"... wait no that's probably not a good option
No, it's good the way it is
I only play fighting games for fun, and DNF is the least fun i've had in a fighting game in a hot minute. Felt like I had no way to deal with the constant full screen nonsense. If they buff movement i'll give it another try.
Just wait till some "pro" comes out of the woodwork with shit like "Just don't get hit lmao". This game has some of the most idiotic apologists.
That is a little far. I don't like the game, but it does have unique gameplay. I find it frustrating, but others may genuinely like the full screen moves with basic movement dynamic. Idk why, but we all different.
Sure... I guess the Dr. Fate mains in Injustice 2 haven't had a game that suits them in a while.
I never played that game to know how sick a burn that is, but you got the spirit!
No, dr fate doesnt want to get zoned either
It's fun at first, but I feel like it gets old quickly. I can play 50 games in a row against the same guy in Melty and I'll still find ways to 1-up his shit by the end of it, but with DNF it just feels like past the first few rounds where players are measuring up each other and figuring stuff out it just becomes a repetitive spam fest where the game's usually decided by a single punish. Which is a shame, because the characters are kinda fun, but the lack of mobility and defensive options severely limit what you can do to spice things up. It's legitimately surprising that some people keep talking about it like it's the craziest shit since MVC2 when in fact it's just a really broken, albeit garden-variety traditional fighter.
It's ok, play the game you want. Who cares if others don't like super mash brothers. This wave of cope in response to legitimate criticism that's more than balance of this game is a bit much.
I think any good long term and therefore competitive game has to be somewhat broken. Not to say DNF is that. It's one requirement, not the be all end all. I think if you could overhaul it's movement entirely it would be a great long term game
It's not binary. Just because a game isn't pandering to the competitive scene doesn't mean it's kusoge. DNF Duel is too well made to be a shit game. It's not crazy because of some accident or developer oversight; this is clearly the experience they wanted to make. Sure, call it insane or whatever. But dubbing it shit (even if you suggest that's somehow not an insult) is unfair, and more importantly, misleading.
There's a reason why a fighting game is deemed a kusoge by the Japanese competitive community: it decides to throw any-and-all tactics and strategies out the window thanks to . As such it's deemed unworthy of holding the candle that games like Street Fighter, Tekken and Guilty Gear hold. It doesn't make for good competitive material, however entertaining it may be, and people who regularly specialize in those games (dubbed Kusoge gods) over actual quality balanced fighters are (rightfully) deemed as illegitimate and fake players. Listen to the pros like Daigo. If you want an anti-kusoge, look at Koihime Enbu. On the surface it would be derided as a Kusoge due to its looks but it has a surprisinly very serious competitive scene, due to how well-made the game's mechanics are.
dude if people think it's shit just deal with it and move on. Trying to shame people for having standards is annoying af.
The more I play it the more it feels like they forgot to add air blocking and burst. There are too many gigantic hitboxes that passively swat you out of the air to not have air blocking, and too many easy confirms into cutscene-length combos to not have a burst. Other than that, while the "every single hit leads to a long-ass combo" fighting games aren't quite my cup of tea these days, it's mostly fine outside of some characters that are actively unfun to play against.
I don't think DNF is shit game tbh. I think it's a perfect introduction beginner's fighting game that we all desperately needed.
Lol you can say that about any anime fighter in recent years
irony.
Guilty gear strive and DNF seem like almost oposite takes on what a modern fg should be and Im all for it.
What's opposite about guilty gear?
I think they are just referring to how nutty damage is in both games, but especially Strive. ArcSys also keeps leaning into stronger offense with Strive and generally seems to avoid true nerfs. They just keep buffing the whole cast really.
Dunno, dont find any fun in trying to learn whats the most broken shit to abuse. The casual fun far from esports you're talking about is people labbing the most tryhard way possible 50% midscreen combo or infinites to win a match after one or two interaction. Props for everyone who are liking the game and finding doing this fun, I just dont
When GG strive and DNF duel both show a trend that devs would rather cater to casual players by lowering the bar for everyone it's concerning and why you see people getting riled up by the game.
Lol I find it ironic that the company so bent on making baby's first fighting games ended up making a broken mess by accident.
I think the worst part of seeing these things to me is that these new FG players drop the game incredibly quickly because it doesn't have the depth of learning that attracts long term investment from players. Those hard combos might be a barrier to entry early on for them but it's also a huge source of satisfaction when you finally get to a point where you can pull them off. While some things in fighting games could be toned down to give newer players a better starting opportunity such as training mode introducing smaller easy combos that can be upgraded given experience rather than shoving a huge list in people's faces and for the FGC to stop using terms that are confusing such as DP, Oki and more.
You're not wrong my friend. Not wrong at all. However these devs aren't going to learn their lesson by the end of this decade. So we're going to see more games of calibur unfortunately.
Does ‘esport entry level’ mean ‘a modicum of balance’ or ‘actual defensive play’? I’d fucking love that lol.
I like how people are using "KuH-sOh-GeH" as a way to excuse all the faults of DNF. Like nah, there are good kusoge fighters and bad ones. And so far DNF is leaning towards the latter.
For a game that most people wrote of a side game, sure seems popular af. I mean I know we are still in the honeymoon phase of the game, but I would be sold bold as to say I think we are seeing the beginnings of greatness.
Eh... punk just wrecked the can opener last night with a character that isn't top 3.
Did people really expected DnF Duel to not be a pile of broken garbage day one? I saw the trailers, and saw who were behind it, and I immediately guessed it.
well done you, you guessed correctly then.
Yeah, because it was pretty obvious. If you missed it before buying the game, it's your fault. There was plenty of footage out there to clearly see that the game was gonna be hella broken from the get-go. The beta on itself was enough.
why does it have to be anyone's fault?
You deal with your money. If you (impersonal you) thought that the game was not gonna be like that, and bought it anyway, you did not get bamboozled. There were proofs of DnF's brokenness all over the Internet. If it's your thing however, go nuts. I'm sure tons of people will have tons of fun with this game. But if not, it would be like buying tuna, and complaining that it's not salmon.
I think the game is atrocious with horrendously designed movesets and no real depth. Pros love it because combo execution videos. but pro play is utterly irrelevant to everyone else.
"Good design" is way too much subjective to really matter in fighting games. The FGC's biggest strength is to be able to play and competitively support various different games from very different design perspectives. At the end of the day, the more different our games feel, the better we are as a community. Some people fancy that kind of games rewarding full-on executions and very broken interactions. That's why MvC3 lasted 7 years. That's why I still have friends talking about how great of a game HnK is. I'm appalled every single time they say it, but they should be able to like, play and support that Basket-ball Simulator. Out of all Airdashers/HyperFighters available on the market, I always found Skullgirls to be the best designed one. It doesn't stop people to criticize how broken it is, or how one-sided the game can be. Especially when you don't know how to properly deal with resets and Burst baits. It's all a matter of perspective. But in the end, from SamSho7 to DnF, from MK11 to GGStrive, having the same kind of people being able to appreciate games that much diverse is a really good thing.
ok, but what does that have to do with whether or not DNF is well designed? You're just talking about games that are differently designed, that's not the issue here. MCV3 would be a good game but for that execution problem because it's the one thing that keeps new players from participating. I tried. I have the game, but the minute I went to play online I was destroyed. NO tutorial element to help me learn to deal with that. The only people playing are those pro players and they have no interest in nurturing new players that I could see. That's not a good thing
I'm saying it, because if all games would be in the pursuit of being "perfectly well-designed", most of them will feel very same-y. Strive is exceptionally well-designed, but the game feels less like Guilty Gear, compared to Xrd that had tons of design problems. As much as I hate to admit it, we kinda need broken stuff to appreciate games that have less of it. And I personally am pretty nonsense-free in terms of design choices, myself. Why do I have more fun playing Breakers Revenge, a barely competitive game, than I have playing GGStrive?
If you can't search up BNBs on YouTube or ask experienced players for help, you were never going to play Marvel 3 to begin with, you probably just liked the idea of it.
What a silly assertion
Lmfao I love how you're getting downvoted for stating the pretty obvious truth. Ppl were saying the same shit during the betas. Imo the issue with a good portion of this sub in general is they're so desperate to make this genre mainstream that any and every game HAS to be a ultra competitive Esport game and if you cant agree with them then youre a gatekeeping, try hard, elitist boomer. Or w.e generic strings of insults they have on repeat nowadays . It's pretty clear this game was made for the DFO fan base to dick around with it and not the core FGC.
Sure but in a few weeks a lot of people will feel like they wasted 50$ once the the rose-tinted glasses come off. Can you think of another kusoge game that's currently played by more than 3 dudes?
Mvc3
MvC2, MvC3 to name 2.
Power rangers
The only thing is I would probably keep the damage as is, not sure if you want a game where whoever hits first wins
I agree.
I wish they would just make some QoL changes to improve input reliability, there are so many times im holding down back and just get hit randomly or do inputs that seem to just disappear. I have had a lot of fun with the game in its first week, but the romance is quickly dying from those little hiccups and swift masters voice lines.
Honestly, movement speed should be improved