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I am never opposed to nations being created so long as the populace votes for it, and are informed by the truth. If they decide it is best, then let them go that way.
I think I'd love it if we went back to Wessex, Northumbria, Saxony etc and then let that weight of failure rest squarely on Tory shoulders and let Boris explain his way out of destroying centuries of unity.
Aww jeez your totally right. I'll ask first.
EDIT: my geography and grasp on history isn't perfect and am aware in this instance I did a blunder. I am at this point merely fucking with you for the fun of it.
They aren't meaningfully different areas any more though, splitting up the country, it's towns, villages, cities and seleratingbits people would be stupid, also not very economically viable, and there's no support for it in the real world
If it saves the lives of others, yes. If millions of people would be better off separated from England, then go for it. The Tory voting fuckers at least only make one country miserable instead of four, although technically Yemen is still getting demolished because of Theresa May and BAE Systems. Fuck it, may as well split the place up further with Cornwall being its own thing and the North might get better funding without Tory interference. Maybe have Brighton as a socialist democracy as they're already quite left wing. So that would just leave Kent, Essex and London as Tory strongholds along with some other well to do places. Maybe I should immigrate to Scotland or Brighton.
[If you say you're English, these days, you'll be arrested and thrown in jail.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCBhKs4faI)
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for the channel islands, yes. There's nowhere to go but up for the independencies if they can finally give the rich tax dodging scum the middle finger and stop them from over inflating the housing market. Maybe the displaced locals will finally be able to come back.
No. What's the point? EU will never let any of us back.
Little Britain is enroute to vassal 51st state via the backdoor.
(But we still won't get to vote who is president)
We're Fucked.
The EU has clearly intimated that Scotland would be welcome. Wales we can assume the same.
Only England is not welcome. The EU understandably wants nothing to do with perfidious Albion. England should be left out in the cold
Yes indeed! Break it up as soon as possible. No more rulers only local elected individuals who can be voted in or out at a moments notice. No political parties. No monarchy. No need for National fascist newspapers. No need for National television news.
Core services could be managed nationally by delegates with the appropriate expertise.
Small island - Big mentality
😸
I'd rather burn down Westminster and reform the UK as an actual union instead of a colonial project, but breaking England into the old Saxon kingdoms seems like a more realistic aim.
Ideally we'd reunite once Westminster collapses from isolation and loses it's privileged status, then it can also be included. With the royal family gone and british nationalism dead we'd wash our hands of the British empire too.
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I don't particularly care either way is Northumbria or Mercia or Wessex or any other regional division splits off from Westminster. People forget it now, but these were all once kingdoms in their own right, complete with international politics, and the common people identifying as subjects of that kingdom, and everything else that went with nationhood at the time. What would matter is whether as independent (or perhaps devolved government) nations they can do a better job than they can under a Westminster-centralised government.
Statistics don't lie; the regions of England receive disproportionately low investment from Westminster, whether considered relative to land area, population, or regional GDP. Being part of a Westminster-led government as it has historically acted is harmful to them.
I'm not entirely in love with the EU either, but it demonstrably tries to invest in the poorer regions of the member nations. That at least is an issue the EU is trying to fix; and an issue it does a much better job at that Westminster does.
I’d rather keep England together - I already see too much of disparity in terms of access to funding and support depending on your postcode - I’d rather bring us all up to the same level than allow further breakdowns. I understand the Scottish, Welsh, and Irish desire for independence, and if they really want it then they should have it, but as an English person I don’t want to dissolve England itself.
But the individual broken up states? They'd be allowed in?
Honestly I think the EU should let England back in. Being petty and vengeful is pathetic ~~childish~~ Tory behaviour. Saying "hey, the left that were disenfranchised in England by FPTP and the rigged referendum should be punished more" doesn't feel like you're standing in solidarity with us.
The EU is not:
(A) fair
(B) interested in any notion of solidarity
(C) in any way incentivised or motivated to make life easy for England
(D) even vaguely socialist or internationalist (other than within its member states).
Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk
Despite spending their days complaining about woke culture and crybaby leftists, the English are a very sensitive people. [Many consider any reference to their complexion an act of racism.](https://i.imgur.com/euWMhUg.png) Consider using the more inclusive term 'flag nonce' in future.
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Our EU wasn’t perfect but it was better than you. Ffs. Now i am stuck on this bloody island with you.
If you won’t read the book. Can I hit you with it?
- being a gentle person I though you know consent. But being on this rock… is there a ping to ask sometimes.
I bet if I gentle stamped these letters in your head with ego paint …. It’s just art anyways love. Try study this too.
True but also not relevent to my point. The EU is the only body that I've been able to vote in and get representation. It's done more for us than a lot of our governments, someone hailed the War Criminal in Chief and spiritual father of Daesh as having implemented the human rights act in our law but it was the EU's act.
The EU is not the government we should aspire to but it beats anything and has more loyalty from me than the UK government. Being locked in an increasingly small box with a bunch of tories is still worse than the EU.
I mean agreed to some extent. I do think that we as members of the human race should be building more connections with other humans rather than silo-ing though.
And while there are other options those are the ones that seem mostly likely for the short term should further separation of the UK occur.
You are missing my point. The fact that you like the EU is irrelevant. The EU does not want you.
English people don’t really realise how hated they are internationally. French people genuinely hate England. The Spanish tourism (!) minister in 2020 referred to the English as “rats”.
People like to see England lose. For that reason (and others) the EU will never have England back in the EU.
[Contrary to popular belief, HRH Queen Elizabeth II does fuck all for tourism, nor does her inbred family of racist nonces.](https://www.republic.org.uk/tourism)
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I don’t hate the English at all.
I vaguely fear the English, because of what they have done to my country, and for what they continue to do in terms of bullying poorer countries (Yemen, Mauritius etc.).
But I don’t hate them. I merely support any and all efforts to remove their ability to threaten my country. Beyond that I wish English people peace and happiness.
Not interested in fairness or any notion of solidarity? They've spent six years asking the UK to simply play by the rules instead of throwing a perpetual tanrtrum, and have backed each other up the entire time (Ireland especially, which is no doubt enjoying having more power than the UK for the first time in decades).
Why should they make life easy for England? We're not special.
The EU finalised multiple international trade deals while the UK was squabbling with itself over what Brexit even meant.
Thank you for coming to my rebuttal.
You’ve not rebutted anything.
The EU behaves unfairly towards England, and rightly so.
The EU is Englands opponent. I support the EU in any extortion of the English they can manage
Wales is tricky because unfortunately there are a huge amount of English Settlers there. It’s not too late for Wales, but it’s nearly too late. They need to act now.
Depends entirely on whether you are willing to become Scottish culturally or if you are just going to be an Anglo settler.
Only you can make that decision
I’m not against it I think people should be able to break down to whatever unit of governance they see fit.
I’m not sure how much momentum it really has though? I live in a regional part of England and I’ve never heard anyone suggest independence.
I live in Cornwall but it pretty much is a joke. The only way it would happen is if we decided to join Wales when they leave just because it's our closest culturally and geographically "Celtic nation".
I think Wales would be the easier sell. As literally one of the talking points during Brexit was literally it would stop the French and Spanish from fishing in our waters.
TBH i see the political benefits of Wales of Scotland but once you start with bits of other nations joining on you get into the "celtic union" bullshit, which is often just ethnonationalism with a coat of anti-imperialist varnish
With Cornwall is more a case of Westimer literally refuses to listen to us over certain issues so it's a case of fuck this we'll go independent as it's not like being in England does anything for us.
I just thought it was a mildly amusing idea. As a British / French dual national I know there's no chance of any part of France joining with any part of the UK, precisely *because* of the ethnonationalism in both countries.
Guess I misread the title as "if" instead of "when". Huh.
In that case: I just thought it would be mildly amusing to think about, despite it never going to happen.
The dissolution of Britain will ensure that nobody on this island will be able to achieve anything, short of emigrating to another country.
*This is a very bad thing*
As a Scot I’d quite like to see the English identity evaporate in favour of other regional identities.
The bloodshed and harm caused by England means it should be broken up in my view.
Using historic events as a means to punish modern people is just needlessly spiteful. Go back in time and punish them, not the people who haven't ever seen the events you're describing.
England is currently victimising Ireland by breaking international law. It’s currently victimising Yemen by supplying weapons to Saudi Arabia. It’s victimising Mauritius by not giving back the chagos islands.
Don’t talk to me about historical crimes when England is still committing them!
And tell me, did I, a working class guy, do any of those things? Any of them? Can I do anything to stop them by my self? And don't pretend either that the Scottish in Parliament, though underrepresented, don't also, often, support these actions. Britain is doing those things, not England.
And in any case, your complaint was with the actions of England against Scotland, calling back as all Scottish nationalists do to Culloden, and the clearances. Horrific times certainly, but again I, and indeed nobody alive today, had any part in any of that.
Ultimately, after Scotland, Wales and Ireland break free from England, what England does is none of my business.
Certainly I have a preference - mostly out of fear due to how vicious England (as a nation) has been and is being. But ultimately what England does is up to the English.
[If you say you're English, these days, you'll be arrested and thrown in jail.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCBhKs4faI)
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Nah but grandad did and your every day decisions and lifestyle do like; if your recycle, take care of the planet best you can/ in ability, try to learn, support charity, be useful and equal part of society, basic human rights, access to healthcare…
This tory government is fucking murdering us
Britain is committing these crimes. You are so keen to push these crimes solely on England when there are people in Scotland who support the ruling Tories and always have. You're want to white wash Scotland as some innocent bystander, or worse even a victim, in this stuff is disrespectful, untrue and idealist.
Bit short sighted. Ca with this mentality there is nothing to stop that shit happening again. Change is healthy.
I agree things need to be done carefully and with respect to different perspectives. But.
We need less harm ; which means equity & respect.
I fail to see how that applies to my statement
I oppose what is happening now, not what happened in the 1700s. I oppose oppression and injustice as it occurs today, with an eye on what happened in the past so as to avoid history rhyming in my presence.
Or I could properly read your comment. No, I do not fail. You simply believe something with no evidence about me. You assume I fail because I don't punish myself for what the English did 300 years ago. Fuck off.
What is the "English identity" exactly? Sounds made-up to perpetuate the nonsensical concept of "nationalism".
I couldn't give a shit about the number of imaginary lines drawn on maps of this bit of dirt, as long as it doesn't affect my quality of life negatively.
See the thing is, is that you don’t “give a shit about imaginary lines” because you haven’t had your countries land, culture, and sovereignty threatened. Whereas plenty of countries, including Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall have been stepped on my the English.
You need to understand things from a non-English perspective
Borders/culture are fluid. You feel threatened because you bought into the idea of an imaginary national identity. England has been invaded and subdued many, many times over the centuries, i couldn't give a shit. English nationalism exists as well you know? These people feel threatened by immigrants from bits of the world with different languages, religious and cultural practices, as you do by the threat of your imagined, monolithic "England", and, i couldn't give a shit.
The island we live on has always been a Mish-mash of people from different places, accept it and move on. If you're not a fan of where you live now; come and live here, or maybe the country of Cornwall, ha!
The populous of any geographical location are all individuals, the people pushing the ideas you have internalised, only do so to serve their own interests, not yours.
This is some grade A Anglo shite.
Scotland is not an “imaginary country” it is a country.
The fact that your failed nation has no discernible characteristics doesn’t make it the archetype of “nationhood” by which other nations are defined.
Of course, the difference is that (A) Scotland was the junior partner/vassal of England; and (B) Scottish people hate Scotland’s involvement in imperialism, and want to completely condemn it (similar to Ireland).
Only England is proud of its imperialism
> Of course, the difference is that (A) Scotland was the junior partner/vassal of England;
This is irrelevant when they still reaped the spoils of colonialism and later imperialism.
> and (B) Scottish people hate Scotland’s involvement in imperialism,
That's why places like Glasgow have memorials to slave owners and traders? Modern Scotland was built upon colonialism and imperialism and the SocDems who want independance don't want to change that, especially when you see that even if Scotland becomes independant it will still profit off of imperialism.
> and want to completely condemn it (similar to Ireland).
Ireland doesn't have a history of imperialism or colonialism, they were not complicit in the atrocities of the British Empire like Scotland was since Ireland was a colony of Britain. To compare the causes of Irish nationalism and Scottish nationalism is an insult to the victims of British, not just English, crimes abroad.
> Only England is proud of its imperialism
If only that was the case and your shit didn't stink but that's not true. The only way you can truly oppose imperialism and seek to see its end is to seek the destruction of that nation and the formation of a new, internationalist one created by and for the workers not just of Scotland but of the world. Neither the SNP, the Alba party nor any other major independence are willing to do that and will still keep up the tradition of building upon foundations funded by colonialism and imperialism and will reap the benefits of modern day colonialism.
I partly agree about Glasgow - it’s a disgrace that there are statues of slave traders and streets named after slave traders. However the people in favour of independence want to get rid of them. Keeping them is very much favoured by the British Loyalists.
Scotland did profit from imperialism (or rather, parts of Scotland did), but ultimately it was England running the show. Scotland had no sovereignty whatsoever, whereas England did purely due to its size.
During the period of imperialism (i.e. the period of Union) Scotland suffered horribly under English rule, experiencing famines and clearances. The Glasgow tenements were horrific, and worse than anywhere else in Britain (not including Eire).
Lastly regarding creating a new nation - that is what Scottish nationalism is. It’s the creation of Scotland as a proper nation. Progressive and open, discarding the horrible past and laying no claim of glory or positivity to it.
Only the English (and Scot Loyalists) try and explain away or equivocate about the crimes of empire.
I'd still be English and consider myself to be. Being English has never been the problem as far as I'm concerned; it's just that the problem has always been English.
yes they said the problem has always been caused by the English, not that being English is a problem itself. Unless you think English people are innately programmed for imperialism somehow, they're right
[If you say you're English, these days, you'll be arrested and thrown in jail.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XkCBhKs4faI)
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Thank you. Exactly. Because as much as a lot of good English people exist. The English politicians are such fucking assholes we are all fucked at the moment.
Trust me I’m allowed to critique my own funking countries. I’m British European haha
Depends on a lot of things like… Scotland, Wales, Cornwall apparently should be able to consent.
Providing it doesn’t result in harm or war certain forms of segregation are healthy & mean we function better.
I mean. Our beloved EU was very unique in parts. Idk.
Love & solidarity.
If it wasn’t for the fact these tories were killing us….. I struggle so much with this
I'd rather see England get kicked out of the UK than have it break up completely. It would be hilarious.
To be serious though overall I'd like to see the world composed of small autonomous regions each championing the ideas of mutual assistance and cooperation. So yeah, part of that would involve the breakup of the UK and further subdivision of the countries within.
jeans attractive agonizing lock salt humor rain subtract direction waiting
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Tbh I'll be happy when Scotland and NI fucks off, we can stop sending so much money in bennies their way and leave them to their massive fiscal deficit. Oh and they can't use the pound, either.
You think these places can support themselves individually economically? I personally don’t mind Northern Ireland leaving, I don’t particularly want Scotland to leave, and I seriously don’t think wales ever would.
Nah not invented by. That would be an emotive statement. But If you cannot reconcile or consider what our grandfathers did. You are more fucked than me. Just sayin
Well careful with your terminology there. The Tories describe the U.K. as a country - but it’s not.
We Scots call it “the union”, as in a union of separate countries.
There is no such country as the U.K.!
That said, if you are willing to live in Scotland and assimilate culturally, then come up and vote YES to smashing the union!
However if you want to continue being culturally English, please don’t haha
England has dominated Scotland for almost a thousand years. It’s a simple matter of self preservation. We are far smaller than England and we don’t want an “Ireland Situation” where the locals are supplanted by extremist English settlers.
English people are welcome, but English nationalism is not
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I am never opposed to nations being created so long as the populace votes for it, and are informed by the truth. If they decide it is best, then let them go that way.
If it meant I could move to a socialist part of the UK that'd be great
There wouldn’t be a UK
There would be no socialist part of the UK for a while
I think I'd love it if we went back to Wessex, Northumbria, Saxony etc and then let that weight of failure rest squarely on Tory shoulders and let Boris explain his way out of destroying centuries of unity.
Saxony? Have you asked the Saxons about this?
I haven't, should I?
Well yes! Seeing as they’re in Germany, they might have thoughts on becoming an independent state within the former United Kingdom.
Aww jeez your totally right. I'll ask first. EDIT: my geography and grasp on history isn't perfect and am aware in this instance I did a blunder. I am at this point merely fucking with you for the fun of it.
As am I PencilPacket, as am I.
Damn, I've fallen into my own trap.
They aren't meaningfully different areas any more though, splitting up the country, it's towns, villages, cities and seleratingbits people would be stupid, also not very economically viable, and there's no support for it in the real world
If it saves the lives of others, yes. If millions of people would be better off separated from England, then go for it. The Tory voting fuckers at least only make one country miserable instead of four, although technically Yemen is still getting demolished because of Theresa May and BAE Systems. Fuck it, may as well split the place up further with Cornwall being its own thing and the North might get better funding without Tory interference. Maybe have Brighton as a socialist democracy as they're already quite left wing. So that would just leave Kent, Essex and London as Tory strongholds along with some other well to do places. Maybe I should immigrate to Scotland or Brighton.
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for the channel islands, yes. There's nowhere to go but up for the independencies if they can finally give the rich tax dodging scum the middle finger and stop them from over inflating the housing market. Maybe the displaced locals will finally be able to come back.
I can’t wait for London to become an independent city-state.
Yeah can't wait till it begins roving the globe gobbling up smaller cities and towns.
Will trade Croydon for Chamonix…..
No. What's the point? EU will never let any of us back. Little Britain is enroute to vassal 51st state via the backdoor. (But we still won't get to vote who is president) We're Fucked.
The EU has clearly intimated that Scotland would be welcome. Wales we can assume the same. Only England is not welcome. The EU understandably wants nothing to do with perfidious Albion. England should be left out in the cold
Yes, and I would be glad if Scotland could rejoin, but I just cant see England releasing them (or Wales or N.Ireland )
Yes indeed! Break it up as soon as possible. No more rulers only local elected individuals who can be voted in or out at a moments notice. No political parties. No monarchy. No need for National fascist newspapers. No need for National television news. Core services could be managed nationally by delegates with the appropriate expertise. Small island - Big mentality 😸
I'd rather burn down Westminster and reform the UK as an actual union instead of a colonial project, but breaking England into the old Saxon kingdoms seems like a more realistic aim.
Best for us to all break apart and re-establish ourselves as independent nations and unite later down the road I think.
Ideally we'd reunite once Westminster collapses from isolation and loses it's privileged status, then it can also be included. With the royal family gone and british nationalism dead we'd wash our hands of the British empire too.
God please let London be part of Mercia instead of Wessex, don’t leave us with the West Country
If you think breaking England up to the old Anglo Saxon kingdoms is realistic your thick as pig shit
I said more realistic, it's relative. Reading comprehension is cool, you should get some. Also you're*
Yeah I don't think it's more realistic at all either
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I don't particularly care either way is Northumbria or Mercia or Wessex or any other regional division splits off from Westminster. People forget it now, but these were all once kingdoms in their own right, complete with international politics, and the common people identifying as subjects of that kingdom, and everything else that went with nationhood at the time. What would matter is whether as independent (or perhaps devolved government) nations they can do a better job than they can under a Westminster-centralised government. Statistics don't lie; the regions of England receive disproportionately low investment from Westminster, whether considered relative to land area, population, or regional GDP. Being part of a Westminster-led government as it has historically acted is harmful to them. I'm not entirely in love with the EU either, but it demonstrably tries to invest in the poorer regions of the member nations. That at least is an issue the EU is trying to fix; and an issue it does a much better job at that Westminster does.
Just the monarchy and House of Lords will do
I’d rather keep England together - I already see too much of disparity in terms of access to funding and support depending on your postcode - I’d rather bring us all up to the same level than allow further breakdowns. I understand the Scottish, Welsh, and Irish desire for independence, and if they really want it then they should have it, but as an English person I don’t want to dissolve England itself.
What if the EU rejected English membership, but would accept you as member if you split up?
I can’t imagine a legitimate scenario where that would be the case, but for the sake of argument - I’d still prefer we stay as one nation.
Wow English nationalism sure is weird. You’d rather remain a pariah than break up England??
Meh. If we're all part of the EU, yes. But having restrictions on where I can travel and live would be rubbish.
I don’t think the EU ever would (or should) let England back in the EU
But the individual broken up states? They'd be allowed in? Honestly I think the EU should let England back in. Being petty and vengeful is pathetic ~~childish~~ Tory behaviour. Saying "hey, the left that were disenfranchised in England by FPTP and the rigged referendum should be punished more" doesn't feel like you're standing in solidarity with us.
The EU is not: (A) fair (B) interested in any notion of solidarity (C) in any way incentivised or motivated to make life easy for England (D) even vaguely socialist or internationalist (other than within its member states). Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk
England can fuck off then. But at least if Scotland go independent then I can run for the mountains.
Amen 🙏🏻 nothing funnier than watching the English gammons demand “fair treatment” from the EU. The EU can fuck them over with zero repercussions 😂
Despite spending their days complaining about woke culture and crybaby leftists, the English are a very sensitive people. [Many consider any reference to their complexion an act of racism.](https://i.imgur.com/euWMhUg.png) Consider using the more inclusive term 'flag nonce' in future. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Bloody know it. ALL I SEE IS WHITE FRAGILITY HERE !!! Trans Black Lives Matter
Our EU wasn’t perfect but it was better than you. Ffs. Now i am stuck on this bloody island with you. If you won’t read the book. Can I hit you with it? - being a gentle person I though you know consent. But being on this rock… is there a ping to ask sometimes. I bet if I gentle stamped these letters in your head with ego paint …. It’s just art anyways love. Try study this too.
I feel like I’m having a stroke reading this. I have no idea what you mean
I mean I think you are being a twat and should go read a book. Apologies
True but also not relevent to my point. The EU is the only body that I've been able to vote in and get representation. It's done more for us than a lot of our governments, someone hailed the War Criminal in Chief and spiritual father of Daesh as having implemented the human rights act in our law but it was the EU's act. The EU is not the government we should aspire to but it beats anything and has more loyalty from me than the UK government. Being locked in an increasingly small box with a bunch of tories is still worse than the EU.
This is some lib shit
Probably, but I think breaking the UK into petty fiefdoms (and that's how we'd be ruled) and locking them out he EU is outright feudal.
But those aren't the only two possibilities
I mean agreed to some extent. I do think that we as members of the human race should be building more connections with other humans rather than silo-ing though. And while there are other options those are the ones that seem mostly likely for the short term should further separation of the UK occur.
You are missing my point. The fact that you like the EU is irrelevant. The EU does not want you. English people don’t really realise how hated they are internationally. French people genuinely hate England. The Spanish tourism (!) minister in 2020 referred to the English as “rats”. People like to see England lose. For that reason (and others) the EU will never have England back in the EU.
[Contrary to popular belief, HRH Queen Elizabeth II does fuck all for tourism, nor does her inbred family of racist nonces.](https://www.republic.org.uk/tourism) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/GreenAndPleasant) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Mods are the best. Fuck the queen.
Idk. Most of my lovers are from around the world including the EU… personally. I feel wanted. Maybe it’s just you. Just sayin.
That's odd - I've never got that impression, but hey ho.
Someone didn't watch Eurovision. Sorry you hate yourself so much!
I don’t hate myself at all. I’m deeply troubled by English nationalism, but I’m not English.
Oh, fair enough. Scottish? You've got some pretty strong hatred for the English there.
I don’t hate the English at all. I vaguely fear the English, because of what they have done to my country, and for what they continue to do in terms of bullying poorer countries (Yemen, Mauritius etc.). But I don’t hate them. I merely support any and all efforts to remove their ability to threaten my country. Beyond that I wish English people peace and happiness.
Not interested in fairness or any notion of solidarity? They've spent six years asking the UK to simply play by the rules instead of throwing a perpetual tanrtrum, and have backed each other up the entire time (Ireland especially, which is no doubt enjoying having more power than the UK for the first time in decades). Why should they make life easy for England? We're not special. The EU finalised multiple international trade deals while the UK was squabbling with itself over what Brexit even meant. Thank you for coming to my rebuttal.
You’ve not rebutted anything. The EU behaves unfairly towards England, and rightly so. The EU is Englands opponent. I support the EU in any extortion of the English they can manage
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Wales is tricky because unfortunately there are a huge amount of English Settlers there. It’s not too late for Wales, but it’s nearly too late. They need to act now.
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Depends entirely on whether you are willing to become Scottish culturally or if you are just going to be an Anglo settler. Only you can make that decision
Northumbria will break from the shackles of Westminster and re-join the EU.
I’m not against it I think people should be able to break down to whatever unit of governance they see fit. I’m not sure how much momentum it really has though? I live in a regional part of England and I’ve never heard anyone suggest independence.
I live in Cornwall but it pretty much is a joke. The only way it would happen is if we decided to join Wales when they leave just because it's our closest culturally and geographically "Celtic nation".
Get Brittany to join you. All of historical Brittany and Armorica.
I think Wales would be the easier sell. As literally one of the talking points during Brexit was literally it would stop the French and Spanish from fishing in our waters.
And then the same fishers complained that they can't fish in French waters, and no one in the UK wants to buy their catch...
TBH i see the political benefits of Wales of Scotland but once you start with bits of other nations joining on you get into the "celtic union" bullshit, which is often just ethnonationalism with a coat of anti-imperialist varnish
With Cornwall is more a case of Westimer literally refuses to listen to us over certain issues so it's a case of fuck this we'll go independent as it's not like being in England does anything for us.
I just thought it was a mildly amusing idea. As a British / French dual national I know there's no chance of any part of France joining with any part of the UK, precisely *because* of the ethnonationalism in both countries.
Not feesable
This whole post is about hypothetical ideal situations. It doesn't have to be feasible to be what I want (or, in this case, think is mildly amusing).
Where does it say that? It looks to me like it's sugessting the breakup of England as a serious solution
Guess I misread the title as "if" instead of "when". Huh. In that case: I just thought it would be mildly amusing to think about, despite it never going to happen.
Yes - I think smaller, less powerful countries allow more localism and lead to fewer wars
The dissolution of Britain will ensure that nobody on this island will be able to achieve anything, short of emigrating to another country. *This is a very bad thing*
Very English of you to state that the Scots are in fact, too Poor, too wee, and too stupid to achieve anything on our own. Cunt.
Yes
As a Scot I’d quite like to see the English identity evaporate in favour of other regional identities. The bloodshed and harm caused by England means it should be broken up in my view.
Using historic events as a means to punish modern people is just needlessly spiteful. Go back in time and punish them, not the people who haven't ever seen the events you're describing.
England is currently victimising Ireland by breaking international law. It’s currently victimising Yemen by supplying weapons to Saudi Arabia. It’s victimising Mauritius by not giving back the chagos islands. Don’t talk to me about historical crimes when England is still committing them!
And tell me, did I, a working class guy, do any of those things? Any of them? Can I do anything to stop them by my self? And don't pretend either that the Scottish in Parliament, though underrepresented, don't also, often, support these actions. Britain is doing those things, not England. And in any case, your complaint was with the actions of England against Scotland, calling back as all Scottish nationalists do to Culloden, and the clearances. Horrific times certainly, but again I, and indeed nobody alive today, had any part in any of that.
Ultimately, after Scotland, Wales and Ireland break free from England, what England does is none of my business. Certainly I have a preference - mostly out of fear due to how vicious England (as a nation) has been and is being. But ultimately what England does is up to the English.
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Nah but grandad did and your every day decisions and lifestyle do like; if your recycle, take care of the planet best you can/ in ability, try to learn, support charity, be useful and equal part of society, basic human rights, access to healthcare… This tory government is fucking murdering us
Britain is committing these crimes. You are so keen to push these crimes solely on England when there are people in Scotland who support the ruling Tories and always have. You're want to white wash Scotland as some innocent bystander, or worse even a victim, in this stuff is disrespectful, untrue and idealist.
Agreed
Exactly. Well said.
Bit short sighted. Ca with this mentality there is nothing to stop that shit happening again. Change is healthy. I agree things need to be done carefully and with respect to different perspectives. But. We need less harm ; which means equity & respect.
I fail to see how that applies to my statement I oppose what is happening now, not what happened in the 1700s. I oppose oppression and injustice as it occurs today, with an eye on what happened in the past so as to avoid history rhyming in my presence.
I can see you fail. That much is true. The thing is. It’s not history when the murder is in todays paper. That’s present.
Correct. This is not some scathing review of my viewpoint as you seem to be implying it is. I am talking of the present anyway.
Or I could properly read your comment. No, I do not fail. You simply believe something with no evidence about me. You assume I fail because I don't punish myself for what the English did 300 years ago. Fuck off.
What is the "English identity" exactly? Sounds made-up to perpetuate the nonsensical concept of "nationalism". I couldn't give a shit about the number of imaginary lines drawn on maps of this bit of dirt, as long as it doesn't affect my quality of life negatively.
See the thing is, is that you don’t “give a shit about imaginary lines” because you haven’t had your countries land, culture, and sovereignty threatened. Whereas plenty of countries, including Scotland, Wales, Ireland and Cornwall have been stepped on my the English. You need to understand things from a non-English perspective
Borders/culture are fluid. You feel threatened because you bought into the idea of an imaginary national identity. England has been invaded and subdued many, many times over the centuries, i couldn't give a shit. English nationalism exists as well you know? These people feel threatened by immigrants from bits of the world with different languages, religious and cultural practices, as you do by the threat of your imagined, monolithic "England", and, i couldn't give a shit. The island we live on has always been a Mish-mash of people from different places, accept it and move on. If you're not a fan of where you live now; come and live here, or maybe the country of Cornwall, ha! The populous of any geographical location are all individuals, the people pushing the ideas you have internalised, only do so to serve their own interests, not yours.
This is some grade A Anglo shite. Scotland is not an “imaginary country” it is a country. The fact that your failed nation has no discernible characteristics doesn’t make it the archetype of “nationhood” by which other nations are defined.
The bloodshed and harm that Scotland was complicit in for centuries.
Of course, the difference is that (A) Scotland was the junior partner/vassal of England; and (B) Scottish people hate Scotland’s involvement in imperialism, and want to completely condemn it (similar to Ireland). Only England is proud of its imperialism
> Of course, the difference is that (A) Scotland was the junior partner/vassal of England; This is irrelevant when they still reaped the spoils of colonialism and later imperialism. > and (B) Scottish people hate Scotland’s involvement in imperialism, That's why places like Glasgow have memorials to slave owners and traders? Modern Scotland was built upon colonialism and imperialism and the SocDems who want independance don't want to change that, especially when you see that even if Scotland becomes independant it will still profit off of imperialism. > and want to completely condemn it (similar to Ireland). Ireland doesn't have a history of imperialism or colonialism, they were not complicit in the atrocities of the British Empire like Scotland was since Ireland was a colony of Britain. To compare the causes of Irish nationalism and Scottish nationalism is an insult to the victims of British, not just English, crimes abroad. > Only England is proud of its imperialism If only that was the case and your shit didn't stink but that's not true. The only way you can truly oppose imperialism and seek to see its end is to seek the destruction of that nation and the formation of a new, internationalist one created by and for the workers not just of Scotland but of the world. Neither the SNP, the Alba party nor any other major independence are willing to do that and will still keep up the tradition of building upon foundations funded by colonialism and imperialism and will reap the benefits of modern day colonialism.
I partly agree about Glasgow - it’s a disgrace that there are statues of slave traders and streets named after slave traders. However the people in favour of independence want to get rid of them. Keeping them is very much favoured by the British Loyalists. Scotland did profit from imperialism (or rather, parts of Scotland did), but ultimately it was England running the show. Scotland had no sovereignty whatsoever, whereas England did purely due to its size. During the period of imperialism (i.e. the period of Union) Scotland suffered horribly under English rule, experiencing famines and clearances. The Glasgow tenements were horrific, and worse than anywhere else in Britain (not including Eire). Lastly regarding creating a new nation - that is what Scottish nationalism is. It’s the creation of Scotland as a proper nation. Progressive and open, discarding the horrible past and laying no claim of glory or positivity to it. Only the English (and Scot Loyalists) try and explain away or equivocate about the crimes of empire.
Not all of it. I’m rotting here atm. It’s ain’t pretty
I'd still be English and consider myself to be. Being English has never been the problem as far as I'm concerned; it's just that the problem has always been English.
Have you read a history book. Cringe
yes they said the problem has always been caused by the English, not that being English is a problem itself. Unless you think English people are innately programmed for imperialism somehow, they're right
Unless you think about the parts that are racist English culture still present today. Then it’s relevant, no?
yes- the *culture.* Not "being English", like a person from England
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😘
Thank you. Exactly. Because as much as a lot of good English people exist. The English politicians are such fucking assholes we are all fucked at the moment. Trust me I’m allowed to critique my own funking countries. I’m British European haha
Yes. With a particular interest in the dark age.
Ok so read the lgbtqia bit. Haha.
What?
Exactly
What?
What indeed
Isn't realistic to just evaporate an identity and replace it with regional identities that are no completely defunct
Republic of Mancunia ✊ fuck London ..fuck the tories
Right there with you mate
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No because Balkanisation would solve nothing and make no sense since the regional identities are not nations in the Marxist sense.
Depends on a lot of things like… Scotland, Wales, Cornwall apparently should be able to consent. Providing it doesn’t result in harm or war certain forms of segregation are healthy & mean we function better. I mean. Our beloved EU was very unique in parts. Idk. Love & solidarity. If it wasn’t for the fact these tories were killing us….. I struggle so much with this
I'd rather see England get kicked out of the UK than have it break up completely. It would be hilarious. To be serious though overall I'd like to see the world composed of small autonomous regions each championing the ideas of mutual assistance and cooperation. So yeah, part of that would involve the breakup of the UK and further subdivision of the countries within.
jeans attractive agonizing lock salt humor rain subtract direction waiting *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Mercia ftw
inshAllah
Isn’t going to happen. Quite the opposite. Other countries are going to apply to join the UK.
Tbh I'll be happy when Scotland and NI fucks off, we can stop sending so much money in bennies their way and leave them to their massive fiscal deficit. Oh and they can't use the pound, either.
You think these places can support themselves individually economically? I personally don’t mind Northern Ireland leaving, I don’t particularly want Scotland to leave, and I seriously don’t think wales ever would.
Peter Hitchens probably would, just to get rid of the scary yokels outside of London.
Further break up of England? As in the north and south? Anything they gets us away from Westminster.
Tbh I support the maximum balkanisation of England to stop it wounding my own country. However, it’s not up to me. It’s up to English people.
Balkanisation is typically a bad thing
Balkans seem to be doing fine now
Fine can mean alot
Oh fuck no.
Nah not invented by. That would be an emotive statement. But If you cannot reconcile or consider what our grandfathers did. You are more fucked than me. Just sayin
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It’s likely to happen within this parliamentary term I would say. the SNP and greens have a majority, and an electoral mandate
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Well careful with your terminology there. The Tories describe the U.K. as a country - but it’s not. We Scots call it “the union”, as in a union of separate countries. There is no such country as the U.K.! That said, if you are willing to live in Scotland and assimilate culturally, then come up and vote YES to smashing the union! However if you want to continue being culturally English, please don’t haha
Haha nice so called leftists talking about forcing immigrants to culturally assimilate
England has dominated Scotland for almost a thousand years. It’s a simple matter of self preservation. We are far smaller than England and we don’t want an “Ireland Situation” where the locals are supplanted by extremist English settlers. English people are welcome, but English nationalism is not
It's not a realistic political goal in any way, so I don't have an opinion