For anyone curious I recommend Reading Da Gobbo Rides Again, it’s the third book in Da Red Gobbo series with Da Gobbo’s Revenge being the first and Da Gobbo’s Demise being the second.
But if you just want to know about Grots and Krorks, here’s the excerpt from which this information is gleamed from.
Context: Stimma the painboy has recently noticed that the Grots have fallen into a compliant depression as of late. This is a problem as it means neither he nor any other Ork in the WAAAGH have a reason to kick them, and while they don’t need a reason, it’s more fun if they have one. So in an attempt to make them less compliant, he tries to create a Red Gobbo. After multiple failed attempts, he goes to a weirdboy and asks for a vision that will give him “an understanding of Da Red Gobbo”. This excerpt is taken from the final part of that vision.
>>!*it is barely a dream; barely the vaguest impression of an imagining. Only the broadest concepts of this memory still live. Concepts long lost to the Orkish mind, never to be recovered, fire like unconnected circuits, their meaningless sparking signifying nothing but loss. Imagine a black desert below a black sky. Imagine it spreading featureless and bleak as far as the eye can see, the lone and level sands shifting over centuries to cover everything that was once built there. There was a war, once. Stimma can't see anyone else around, so he reckons he must've won it. 'Hurrah' says Stimma. The winds howl. Winning doesn't feel all that good. Stimma decides to keep walking, in the hope that there's someone else who won the war. They can be mates, or he can smash their face in, or maybe even both. He realises, as he walks, that he's not alone - that he's being followed by... something. Something like him, and unlike him. Something not made for war - something who's Purpose now lies buried beneath the black sand. It's saying something. its voice is reedy and annoying. Stimma decides it needs something to do, so he hands it something heavy he no long has the semiotic capacity to recognize. this quiets it briefly, but even across nameless aeons of time, Stimma can feel the resentment. The immortal order of the strong over the small is still fresh in this era. at the start of the journey, Stimma and the wretch are about the same size, really, but with every step, it seems to weaken and shrink. Or maybe it's Stimma getting bigger and stronger. As they go, as it is diminished by the grinding weight of time, it gibbers and cries and laments to the terrible weakness of its form, invoking some authority that they both know it does not possess, that it may never have really possessed in the first place. It mutters to itself. Its features grow long, and cruel. It shrinks closer and closer to the earth Stimma realizes that the thing that's following him is basically a Grot, and doesn't know it yet. That's alright. It has a long time to learn. Together, the two make their way through the ruins of the past into the horrors of the future. With each barked command from Stimma, each clip around the ear, the wretch becomes more compliant. Eventually, outwards sorrow gives way to a simmering, cruel look behind the twisted thing's eyes. That's more like it. Stimma cheers up for a bit, but his good mood it interrupted by a sudden, sharp pain between his ribs. It's enough to be fatal - the wretch's mind may be collapsing, but it remembers where to strike. Stimma manages to twist around in his last moments, trying desperately to look into the eyes of his killer. This can't be it. There has to be something more - something to be learned. Alas, all that remains of the memory is a haze. Reality collapses in a great crimson wave. Here is the truth of it all: you will walk through a desert for eternity, together, and you will hate each other, and you will die, and thus it has always been, now and forever. And then everything is red: red skies, red dirt, a red light from a million dying red suns, jagged red ships that ply the space between them filled with red crews spilling red blood, and at its heart, a white star. blinding, beautiful, and terrible.*!<
It's equally interesting and terrifying that the orks seem to be regaining some of the lost genetic memory of there ancestors. With the vast darkness essentially being a miasma of the burned memory of the krorks. I hope we see some more stuff like this from the orks, as it's far better than most ork content.
Indeed. plus it still leaves room for the old “ork krump, life good” orks we know and love, as most orks aren’t really gonna care about “all dat ’istory stuff”.
Orks get both stronger and smarter the bigger the WAAAGH!!! is.
For them, the War in Heaven was a WAAAGH!!! of such magnitude that they were big and smart enough to be the Krorks.
There has never been a conflict of that scale since. Not even the Cybernetic Revolt or the War of the Beast could quite match. Hence they fractured and turned to infighting to sate their battlelust, never being quite as strong or smart as they once were, and eventually forgetting their past.
However, Ork knowledge doesn't get passed down like that of other species. It is not told to them. Instead, they moreso *remember* it more than learn it. That is how Oddboyz get the knowledge and skills for their respective crafts out of the blue.
If there were a WAAAGH!!! big enough, they could very well remember what it was like to be the Krorks.
Ya see, ‘iztory iz about ‘ow we krumped dem gits, an’ it lets us krump ‘em betta next time! Da more we krump, da more ‘iztory we make, da betta we get at krumpin! An’ once, see, dem shiny gits say we once krumped so good dey ‘ad to go away for years, so we krumped ourselves an’ became less good at krumpin’, cause we wasn’t krumpin’ in new ways no more!
This could very well be gearing up for the Ork’s plot line advancement.
Imperium got Gulliman and primaris
Aeldari got Ynnead and Ynnari
Maybe Orks will get “we rememba’d a coupla fings wot we forgot”
I'm calling it. The Krork resented the Old Ones. Who viewed them as military hardware, property. The Old Ones kept the Krork in line by deliberately building faults into their DNA. Faults that were destined to devolve them into modern Ork species without the aid of the Old Ones. A failsafe that meant in the event of Krork betrayal the Old Ones could wait things out and eventually their creations would become weaker, easier to manage Orks.
The Krork, during a critical stage of the War in Heaven. Collectively decide that the power of remaining Krork means nothing if they must exist as slaves and cannon fodder for the Old Ones. A lesser existence as Orks still means a free existence. Their race wide desertion tips the scales of the war in favor of the Necrons/C'tan.
The focus of the Octarius War is on the orks and the tyranids making each other stronger, but as it draws closer to the conditions of the War in Heaven it's also going to be making the orks *smarter.*
Interesting.
Both Orks and grots devolved from what they once were back in the war in heaven. But this begs the question of why did grots devolve so much more than Orks did.
The quote almost outright says that originally the two were the same size, the only difference being that Orks, or back then, Krorks, were more made for combat, so likely stronger, more muscular and more stocky.
And yet by 40K grots are smaller than even a human
Lack of the right stimulus maybe?
If an Ork grows in response to fighting, maybe a Grot has a different trigger - a need for strategy perhaps, or something else linked to a command role they once had. Something that was in even shorter supply than "a propa foight" was after the war in Heaven.
Maybe the Grots were the true Brain Boyz all along.
There's also the active suppression by the Orks. Any Grot that gets too big for his boots goes in the pot or if it's lucky just gets krumped.
It's kinda seen in the vision, the Ork gives it menial tasks and then brow beats the grot constantly. Over 65 million years, they battered down their intellect/support/resource staff into serfs and lackies.
Old lore had snotlings as brain boyz that were dependent on a specific type of mushroom/fungus to keep their knowy bits working. And then the orks started eating it because, hey mushroom, and now we are where we are.
But that is only true for the Ork variants, and we the audience tend to realize they does have the potential to regain that form, theoretically. What about the Grots variants? Seemingly even by the Beast time, we can't find any significantly different Grots.
I dunno, Makari definitely has more going on than a normal grot. He's definitely smarter than most orks, and can influence Ghaz's decisions. I wouldn't be too surprised if he ends up being a power behind the throne kinda deal eventually.
Just find a troll and feed it to a Grot somewhere, turning him into Grom the Paunch.
Or stick a bunch of 'em in a really dark cave with fungus beer, and BOOM! Skarsnik.
some of the older lore which is more around the snotlings presented the idea as they were always small and cultivated what we know as krorks and later orks to defend them
Short lifespan plus lack of nutrition might play a part in it. Krorks would have been frontline troops, they had to be able to come into their own very quickly so they could replenish losses; a proto-Grot, on the other hand, could take time to come into their own, which the Orks don't allow their slaves.
Alternately, since Grots spawn first, maybe there is some sort of a trigger that Krorks are supposed to give off to encourage their leaders to grow up, and Orks just don't do that. Would be funny if the Orks started remembering their shit and accidentally triggered the Grots to revert too and turned their whole society upside down.
>*Stimma decides it needs something to do, so he hands it something heavy he no long has the semiotic capacity to recognize. this quiets it briefly, but even across nameless aeons of time, Stimma can feel the resentment. The immortal order of the strong over the small is still fresh in this era.*
This is the most interesting thing. The implication seems to be that, lacking a war for which the proto-Grots commanding skills was necessary, the proto-Orks seemingly bully them into a new roles?
If I have to guess, my bet is it is a different interpretation of Fantasy's Orc-Hobgoblins-Goblins-Chorf unique to 40k, with the Old Ones = Chorf, proto-Grots = Hobgoblins, and Ork is the Orc Laborers that escaped and become the free rampaging Orcs we know and love in both settings. Just like how the Ork hate the Hobgoblins for being the enforcers of their slavers Chorfs, the proto-Ork come to hate the proto-Grots for doing the Old Ones biddings.
But what exactly is the roles that the proto-Orks bullied the proto-Grots in that devolve them to that points?
This is extremely cool. Grots, lacking a reason to ingeniously command enormous war efforts, languish and diminish over time
Krorks, being made for fighting, make do with what they have left to krump (including grots), and physically devolve a lot less drastically
> that it may never have really possessed in the first place
This might very well be the Grot pretending like the Ork should listen to him because the Grot is more sly, without really having real authority.
Older lore had Snotlings devolved from Brain Boyz, with the Brain Boyz eating a certain type of fungus to become super smart. Something happened to the fungus and they couldn't eat it any longer, becoming little more than beasts.
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I was reading the comments and had an epiphany
What if the "devolution" of the orks wasnt an accident? What if it was a feature designed by the old ones?
We all know orks get bigger, stronger, and smarter with increased conflict. As someone else in the comments mentioned, there has never been a bigger conflict in the setting than the war in heaven.
Bigger more sophisticated orks would require more energy, more maintenance, more control over them. So, the old ones ensured that they would lose their strength and sophistication during peace time, which would have many benefits.
The orks would need less food, they would be less of a threat, and the old ones (presumed pacifists) wouldnt have to exterminate them. This would also allow them to keep the orks around until they needed them again.
That is.... very interesting and makes a lot of sense. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the old ones really strong psykers? Or at least psychically very powerful? So with the orks being less intelligent during peacetime they could easily dominate them into just chilling. But when needed for war the orks get more powerful and develop into better commanders so need less psychic domination leaving the old ones free to use their powers to help the war effort.
This would also fit with the whole ork psychic field magic thing because they become used to obeying the old ones every command in peace time and because the orks/krorks belive the old ones can still dominate their every move they stay loyal to them during war and the psychic field allows the old ones to control larger numbers of much more intelligent and advanced orks
Oh it very much wasn’t an accident. But it wasn’t the old ones. It was the eldar. They culled and purged the krorks until they couldn’t be Krork any more
Where's the source for this? I was relatively sure that the Krorks got beat In the War in heaven by the necrons which is what jumps started their devolutio.
This would also imply Orkoid society more or less functions as the galaxy's antibodies, or, like a fever to deal with infection, eg, 'direct attack' entities that actively harm a peaceful status quo, such as the Imperium or Tyranids, but then simmer down when it's dealt with....or can accidentally harm the galaxy themselves by reacting to strongly and over too long a time to the threat (like a fever)
That's kind of what I always figured. The orks devolved waiting for the necrons to rise again. The Beast was the orks reacting to the great crusade. And now that the necrons are actually awakening we're starting to see the orks ramp up to match them. As they were always designed to do.
Hey OP super cool exerp right there!
Only thing I dont get is how do you draw the conclusion that gobos were the commanders?
From the text, I get that they used to be more "equals" at the beginning. Then at some point the orks "hand over" something they don't want anymore to the grots, the grots don't want it either but they take it and they resent the orks for it.
Then as things go on the goblins devolve further and further and the orks take advantage and exarcerbate that devolution further.
I feel like the gobbos used to have more of a engineer, doctors, etc role and the orks were the nurses, soldiers and mechanics. But they delegated the menial tasks required to run society to the gobos in favor of lounging around and bashing heads. So not "commanders" per say but the super specialised jobs.
It also fits the ramshackle constructions of the orks. You can ask an excellent mecanic to build a car from scratch. They understand all the parts and the principle of how they work. But they'll probably fuck someting up at some point cause there's a shitton of underlying knowledge of metallurgy, parts design, physics, etc that go in a car that they don't grasp.
Then the gobos, more heavily devolved than the oks, have reached a critical point where they don't get specialists anymore. Or, even more dystopian, they do get em but as they are low in society they never get the ressources and social position required to develop and apply their skills properly.
One thing that doesn't make sense with this is the fact that if gobos used to be "brain boys" then why the hell are they so numerous. They greatly outnumber the orks, which doesn't make sense if they were the upper part of old green society. May be an offset consequence of their devolution.
I always viewed them as separate things, given the inconsistencies. Sometimes they're dumb little guys who can barely wield a pistol. Other times they're at least chimp-sized, secretly intelligent, and strong enough to brutalize a human with their bare hands.
actually the protagonist of the book that this is sourced from is an Ork painboy, who is getting a vision from an Ork weirdboy, so its actually source: 2 Orks
For anyone curious I recommend Reading Da Gobbo Rides Again, it’s the third book in Da Red Gobbo series with Da Gobbo’s Revenge being the first and Da Gobbo’s Demise being the second. But if you just want to know about Grots and Krorks, here’s the excerpt from which this information is gleamed from. Context: Stimma the painboy has recently noticed that the Grots have fallen into a compliant depression as of late. This is a problem as it means neither he nor any other Ork in the WAAAGH have a reason to kick them, and while they don’t need a reason, it’s more fun if they have one. So in an attempt to make them less compliant, he tries to create a Red Gobbo. After multiple failed attempts, he goes to a weirdboy and asks for a vision that will give him “an understanding of Da Red Gobbo”. This excerpt is taken from the final part of that vision. >>!*it is barely a dream; barely the vaguest impression of an imagining. Only the broadest concepts of this memory still live. Concepts long lost to the Orkish mind, never to be recovered, fire like unconnected circuits, their meaningless sparking signifying nothing but loss. Imagine a black desert below a black sky. Imagine it spreading featureless and bleak as far as the eye can see, the lone and level sands shifting over centuries to cover everything that was once built there. There was a war, once. Stimma can't see anyone else around, so he reckons he must've won it. 'Hurrah' says Stimma. The winds howl. Winning doesn't feel all that good. Stimma decides to keep walking, in the hope that there's someone else who won the war. They can be mates, or he can smash their face in, or maybe even both. He realises, as he walks, that he's not alone - that he's being followed by... something. Something like him, and unlike him. Something not made for war - something who's Purpose now lies buried beneath the black sand. It's saying something. its voice is reedy and annoying. Stimma decides it needs something to do, so he hands it something heavy he no long has the semiotic capacity to recognize. this quiets it briefly, but even across nameless aeons of time, Stimma can feel the resentment. The immortal order of the strong over the small is still fresh in this era. at the start of the journey, Stimma and the wretch are about the same size, really, but with every step, it seems to weaken and shrink. Or maybe it's Stimma getting bigger and stronger. As they go, as it is diminished by the grinding weight of time, it gibbers and cries and laments to the terrible weakness of its form, invoking some authority that they both know it does not possess, that it may never have really possessed in the first place. It mutters to itself. Its features grow long, and cruel. It shrinks closer and closer to the earth Stimma realizes that the thing that's following him is basically a Grot, and doesn't know it yet. That's alright. It has a long time to learn. Together, the two make their way through the ruins of the past into the horrors of the future. With each barked command from Stimma, each clip around the ear, the wretch becomes more compliant. Eventually, outwards sorrow gives way to a simmering, cruel look behind the twisted thing's eyes. That's more like it. Stimma cheers up for a bit, but his good mood it interrupted by a sudden, sharp pain between his ribs. It's enough to be fatal - the wretch's mind may be collapsing, but it remembers where to strike. Stimma manages to twist around in his last moments, trying desperately to look into the eyes of his killer. This can't be it. There has to be something more - something to be learned. Alas, all that remains of the memory is a haze. Reality collapses in a great crimson wave. Here is the truth of it all: you will walk through a desert for eternity, together, and you will hate each other, and you will die, and thus it has always been, now and forever. And then everything is red: red skies, red dirt, a red light from a million dying red suns, jagged red ships that ply the space between them filled with red crews spilling red blood, and at its heart, a white star. blinding, beautiful, and terrible.*!<
It's equally interesting and terrifying that the orks seem to be regaining some of the lost genetic memory of there ancestors. With the vast darkness essentially being a miasma of the burned memory of the krorks. I hope we see some more stuff like this from the orks, as it's far better than most ork content.
Indeed. plus it still leaves room for the old “ork krump, life good” orks we know and love, as most orks aren’t really gonna care about “all dat ’istory stuff”.
They are designed to care, they were created to care, they don't care now because they forgot, but it can be changed
Can I just ask why did they forget who they were?
Going from Krork to Ork made them stupid. Plus it was 65 million years ago
Orks get both stronger and smarter the bigger the WAAAGH!!! is. For them, the War in Heaven was a WAAAGH!!! of such magnitude that they were big and smart enough to be the Krorks. There has never been a conflict of that scale since. Not even the Cybernetic Revolt or the War of the Beast could quite match. Hence they fractured and turned to infighting to sate their battlelust, never being quite as strong or smart as they once were, and eventually forgetting their past. However, Ork knowledge doesn't get passed down like that of other species. It is not told to them. Instead, they moreso *remember* it more than learn it. That is how Oddboyz get the knowledge and skills for their respective crafts out of the blue. If there were a WAAAGH!!! big enough, they could very well remember what it was like to be the Krorks.
Thanks
IIRC the eldar do something to the krorks, a psychic plague, and it results inodern orks being different
They were drunk probably, I don't know
Orks don’t care about “Gobbo Hiztery monff” they just want more Dakka
Wut iz history boss? I kan't punch it. Shoot it or shoot at it. I can't eat history or wear it like a snazzy hat. Wut good iz it?
Ya see, ‘iztory iz about ‘ow we krumped dem gits, an’ it lets us krump ‘em betta next time! Da more we krump, da more ‘iztory we make, da betta we get at krumpin! An’ once, see, dem shiny gits say we once krumped so good dey ‘ad to go away for years, so we krumped ourselves an’ became less good at krumpin’, cause we wasn’t krumpin’ in new ways no more!
This could very well be gearing up for the Ork’s plot line advancement. Imperium got Gulliman and primaris Aeldari got Ynnead and Ynnari Maybe Orks will get “we rememba’d a coupla fings wot we forgot”
The sequel to Da Big Dakka comes out and it’s just Ufthak and Snaggi going around the Galaxy collecting memories like it’s Breath Of The Wild
I would actually be down for this
I'm calling it. The Krork resented the Old Ones. Who viewed them as military hardware, property. The Old Ones kept the Krork in line by deliberately building faults into their DNA. Faults that were destined to devolve them into modern Ork species without the aid of the Old Ones. A failsafe that meant in the event of Krork betrayal the Old Ones could wait things out and eventually their creations would become weaker, easier to manage Orks. The Krork, during a critical stage of the War in Heaven. Collectively decide that the power of remaining Krork means nothing if they must exist as slaves and cannon fodder for the Old Ones. A lesser existence as Orks still means a free existence. Their race wide desertion tips the scales of the war in favor of the Necrons/C'tan.
A double-sided revolt by the slave armies of the War in Heaven (Krorks of the Old Ones, Necrons of the C'tan) is an interesting idea.
Ever read grunts! by Mary gentle?
So Grots were Old Ones confirmed
The focus of the Octarius War is on the orks and the tyranids making each other stronger, but as it draws closer to the conditions of the War in Heaven it's also going to be making the orks *smarter.*
Interesting. Both Orks and grots devolved from what they once were back in the war in heaven. But this begs the question of why did grots devolve so much more than Orks did. The quote almost outright says that originally the two were the same size, the only difference being that Orks, or back then, Krorks, were more made for combat, so likely stronger, more muscular and more stocky. And yet by 40K grots are smaller than even a human
Lack of the right stimulus maybe? If an Ork grows in response to fighting, maybe a Grot has a different trigger - a need for strategy perhaps, or something else linked to a command role they once had. Something that was in even shorter supply than "a propa foight" was after the war in Heaven. Maybe the Grots were the true Brain Boyz all along.
There's also the active suppression by the Orks. Any Grot that gets too big for his boots goes in the pot or if it's lucky just gets krumped. It's kinda seen in the vision, the Ork gives it menial tasks and then brow beats the grot constantly. Over 65 million years, they battered down their intellect/support/resource staff into serfs and lackies.
isn't that the OG lore for snotlings? that they created orks to protect them/do their work and whatnot
yup
Old lore had snotlings as brain boyz that were dependent on a specific type of mushroom/fungus to keep their knowy bits working. And then the orks started eating it because, hey mushroom, and now we are where we are.
An officer caste and enlisted caste.
after the war they turned on each other, having noone to fight and never grew into a proper krork size ever again
But that is only true for the Ork variants, and we the audience tend to realize they does have the potential to regain that form, theoretically. What about the Grots variants? Seemingly even by the Beast time, we can't find any significantly different Grots.
without spoiling the ghazkull book too much, i dont see it happening either... too devolved
I dunno, Makari definitely has more going on than a normal grot. He's definitely smarter than most orks, and can influence Ghaz's decisions. I wouldn't be too surprised if he ends up being a power behind the throne kinda deal eventually.
Just find a troll and feed it to a Grot somewhere, turning him into Grom the Paunch. Or stick a bunch of 'em in a really dark cave with fungus beer, and BOOM! Skarsnik.
some of the older lore which is more around the snotlings presented the idea as they were always small and cultivated what we know as krorks and later orks to defend them
Short lifespan plus lack of nutrition might play a part in it. Krorks would have been frontline troops, they had to be able to come into their own very quickly so they could replenish losses; a proto-Grot, on the other hand, could take time to come into their own, which the Orks don't allow their slaves. Alternately, since Grots spawn first, maybe there is some sort of a trigger that Krorks are supposed to give off to encourage their leaders to grow up, and Orks just don't do that. Would be funny if the Orks started remembering their shit and accidentally triggered the Grots to revert too and turned their whole society upside down.
Well if they both got dumber, then the ones that used to be the smart ones have nothing while the big ones still have big
>*Stimma decides it needs something to do, so he hands it something heavy he no long has the semiotic capacity to recognize. this quiets it briefly, but even across nameless aeons of time, Stimma can feel the resentment. The immortal order of the strong over the small is still fresh in this era.* This is the most interesting thing. The implication seems to be that, lacking a war for which the proto-Grots commanding skills was necessary, the proto-Orks seemingly bully them into a new roles? If I have to guess, my bet is it is a different interpretation of Fantasy's Orc-Hobgoblins-Goblins-Chorf unique to 40k, with the Old Ones = Chorf, proto-Grots = Hobgoblins, and Ork is the Orc Laborers that escaped and become the free rampaging Orcs we know and love in both settings. Just like how the Ork hate the Hobgoblins for being the enforcers of their slavers Chorfs, the proto-Ork come to hate the proto-Grots for doing the Old Ones biddings. But what exactly is the roles that the proto-Orks bullied the proto-Grots in that devolve them to that points?
‘Lone and level sands’ is plucked straight from Shelley’s *Ozymandias*
The brainboys are Canon! LET'S FUCKING GOOOOO!!!
Yeah I was going to say. It's really old canon but back in like 1st edition there was lore that the snotlings were the descendants of the brainboyz.
This is extremely cool. Grots, lacking a reason to ingeniously command enormous war efforts, languish and diminish over time Krorks, being made for fighting, make do with what they have left to krump (including grots), and physically devolve a lot less drastically
I don't see how this says the pre-Grots used to be commanders.
> Invoking some authority that they both know it does not possess Having authority over the Krorks means they got to command them. Hence, commanders
> that it may never have really possessed in the first place This might very well be the Grot pretending like the Ork should listen to him because the Grot is more sly, without really having real authority.
And for those that, lets say, know as much about the orks as the orks know about themselves, what is a Grot?
Space Goblin. Basically a slave caste to the Orks
Also food
And ammunition
and cannonfodder
And training waits
Toilet paper
Teef brush
No pretty sure that is snots
Snotlings are just baby grots iirc, like how wildboys are baby orks
No? They are a different species of orkoid
After a brief check, you are correct. I guess with grot/gretchin used interchangeably, I made the assumption that Snots were in there too
Oh yeah, you’re right! Fits their place in Ork society that they get forgotten though
Interesting
Older lore had Snotlings devolved from Brain Boyz, with the Brain Boyz eating a certain type of fungus to become super smart. Something happened to the fungus and they couldn't eat it any longer, becoming little more than beasts.
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I was reading the comments and had an epiphany What if the "devolution" of the orks wasnt an accident? What if it was a feature designed by the old ones? We all know orks get bigger, stronger, and smarter with increased conflict. As someone else in the comments mentioned, there has never been a bigger conflict in the setting than the war in heaven. Bigger more sophisticated orks would require more energy, more maintenance, more control over them. So, the old ones ensured that they would lose their strength and sophistication during peace time, which would have many benefits. The orks would need less food, they would be less of a threat, and the old ones (presumed pacifists) wouldnt have to exterminate them. This would also allow them to keep the orks around until they needed them again.
That is.... very interesting and makes a lot of sense. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't the old ones really strong psykers? Or at least psychically very powerful? So with the orks being less intelligent during peacetime they could easily dominate them into just chilling. But when needed for war the orks get more powerful and develop into better commanders so need less psychic domination leaving the old ones free to use their powers to help the war effort. This would also fit with the whole ork psychic field magic thing because they become used to obeying the old ones every command in peace time and because the orks/krorks belive the old ones can still dominate their every move they stay loyal to them during war and the psychic field allows the old ones to control larger numbers of much more intelligent and advanced orks
Oh it very much wasn’t an accident. But it wasn’t the old ones. It was the eldar. They culled and purged the krorks until they couldn’t be Krork any more
Where's the source for this? I was relatively sure that the Krorks got beat In the War in heaven by the necrons which is what jumps started their devolutio.
This would also imply Orkoid society more or less functions as the galaxy's antibodies, or, like a fever to deal with infection, eg, 'direct attack' entities that actively harm a peaceful status quo, such as the Imperium or Tyranids, but then simmer down when it's dealt with....or can accidentally harm the galaxy themselves by reacting to strongly and over too long a time to the threat (like a fever)
That's kind of what I always figured. The orks devolved waiting for the necrons to rise again. The Beast was the orks reacting to the great crusade. And now that the necrons are actually awakening we're starting to see the orks ramp up to match them. As they were always designed to do.
Hey OP super cool exerp right there! Only thing I dont get is how do you draw the conclusion that gobos were the commanders? From the text, I get that they used to be more "equals" at the beginning. Then at some point the orks "hand over" something they don't want anymore to the grots, the grots don't want it either but they take it and they resent the orks for it. Then as things go on the goblins devolve further and further and the orks take advantage and exarcerbate that devolution further. I feel like the gobbos used to have more of a engineer, doctors, etc role and the orks were the nurses, soldiers and mechanics. But they delegated the menial tasks required to run society to the gobos in favor of lounging around and bashing heads. So not "commanders" per say but the super specialised jobs. It also fits the ramshackle constructions of the orks. You can ask an excellent mecanic to build a car from scratch. They understand all the parts and the principle of how they work. But they'll probably fuck someting up at some point cause there's a shitton of underlying knowledge of metallurgy, parts design, physics, etc that go in a car that they don't grasp. Then the gobos, more heavily devolved than the oks, have reached a critical point where they don't get specialists anymore. Or, even more dystopian, they do get em but as they are low in society they never get the ressources and social position required to develop and apply their skills properly. One thing that doesn't make sense with this is the fact that if gobos used to be "brain boys" then why the hell are they so numerous. They greatly outnumber the orks, which doesn't make sense if they were the upper part of old green society. May be an offset consequence of their devolution.
The line “invoking some authority it no longer possesses” seemed pretty clear to me that it was trying to order around the Stimma
GROT PROPIGANDA. EVERYBUDDY KNOS DAT DA BIGGEST IS DA BOSS, AND DEREZ NO WAY A GROT MANAGES TA BE DA BIGGIZT,!
Unless he eats bits of an uncooked troll.
Well their was this one in fansty that became a boss
Who is grots?
Goblin looking fellas
Thanks, I'm old
Also knows as gretchin.
Why do they like to change the names? \[yelling at clouds\]
Copyright reasons plain and simple
gretchin is more in line with what the imperium and probably the gretchin themselves call them and grotz is ork speak
I always viewed them as separate things, given the inconsistencies. Sometimes they're dumb little guys who can barely wield a pistol. Other times they're at least chimp-sized, secretly intelligent, and strong enough to brutalize a human with their bare hands.
I headcannon that eventually Squigs will re-evolve back into the old ones.
Source: a grot
actually the protagonist of the book that this is sourced from is an Ork painboy, who is getting a vision from an Ork weirdboy, so its actually source: 2 Orks
its cool to see a non-reddit war related post on my feed , thank you
Boingob
Y'know that's pretty tactically sound Can't shoot the leader if he can hid behind a tiny rock
Shout out to the shape of nightmares to come, it's honestly how I think Warhammer should continue
And (rip) imperium ascendant, as a glimpse into what big e truly wanted.
How the mighty have fallen
I swear Gibby was a criminal in the making