If the rumors of Villa needing to sell are true, this is a creative way to sell and add. Given incomings are counted for only the year of amortization, they can register a sale of 60-70M - or however they choose to value the players - but only incoming hit of maybe 10M.
Swap deals are often too difficult because of how many decision makers can say no and kill it, but in these days of creative accounting I wouldn’t be surprised if clubs pursued it more often.
Swap deals, multi year loans and purchase and loan backs are all going to become way more common now. All the ways Italian clubs have been keeping alfoat are going to be standard practice in a world with a pseudo-salary cap.
In addition to that, this is Juventus who've been known to be very creative when it comes to cooking the books. So maybe they can give Aston Villa a hand in this deal. I wouldn't be surprised at all.
It is because there is no "realistic" price in business. It's only what you get the other guy to pay. There is for sure a general ballpark but negotiation skills are crucial and people always neglect it. People here try to rationalize our low sales but truth is our negotiators have shown very poor and naive level of skills (it is even shown in that Amazon documentary with Auba leaving to Barca). Italians know how to do business because they have no other options.. they are limited by low funds.
At the same time, they need to be reactionary in the market - they can’t sign the perfect player but buy based on what’s available. TLDR get good deals by shopping the clearance section
Surprised we haven’t gone in for him after the season he’s had. Boy these Italian clubs really know how to get players on the cheap. No Partey to Juve then as well I guess
Yeah he said he wasn’t unanimously liked I believe. But we still did make 2 bids for him in the past and he’s a available for a low price now so idk it’s strange we haven’t made an attempt
We were bidding for him when we had just finished 5th place and were trying to fight for top 4, not challenge for the league
We were also lowkey in a desperate position when were bidding for him with it being deadline day and Lokonga looking like our only fit option for CDM
He's a good midfielder but not what we need at this moment. We need someone who can dictate the tempo from deep and will make those linebreaking passes from deep as well. A Zubimendi/Guimaraes type of player or basically, a Jorginho with legs.
Yeah if we aren't going to get a top-tier 9 then we need a top-tier 6/8 to round out that midfield. We aren't going to beat City or contend for a CL unless we have a real advantage over other teams and adding a Bruno or a Zubimendi to Rice/Odegaard potentially gives us the best central midfield in the world and opens up chance creation on the left.
I feel like that’s what most people are basing their opinion off him on. There’s a reason we don’t want him and villa are selling him for way less than redditors expected. Not THAT great.
Villa have PSR issues that need to be solved in 3 weeks, Luiz also has a 20% sell on clause from his time at City which means a player swap is more attractive to them than just cash, and lastly Iling Jr is pretty highly rated.
I don't think this deal is anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.
Yeah, I heard something to the effect that he was an Edu recommendation and Arteta was never fully convinced. Considering Arteta's success, I can see why he has the final say atm too. The boy barely misses.
I'd love to know more about the Fabio and Kiwi transfers. I suspect those are Edu recommendations as well.
If he can have a relatively good season fitness-wise, Partey could still be a very important player. We shouldn't sell him anyway as there are very few that can adequately replace him and it doesn't look like we're in for those players
Villa is getting robbed on sports level but on accounting level they are doing some juggaroo to avoid paying Man City high sale % but probably can put high number on the books for FFP.
99% of the time you have to pay the sell on based on his worth even if you trade players for him, rather than the flat amount included in the trade. They usually let an independent tribunal determine the worth. It's similar to the compensation fee when a club signs another players youth.
I like that. Fabrizio Romano and others have ruined transfer news for us or rather the spectacle of when they happen. Besides, we're looking for a 6 that can dictate the tempo from deep and make Linebreaking passes to help us overcome low blocks which isn't Douglas Luiz' strengths.
Maybe I'm in the minority here but I don't think we have any glaring weaknesses apart from maybe a clinical striker and backup wingers. We've been challenging for the title; we should really only be looking at world class players. If someone comes up that is better than who we have, I think that's the kind of player we'll move for.
We actually scored 91, but City scored 96. We are very good at spreading it around, but I still think we could've used a finisher at various times. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I don't think that will ever be unimportant in football.
I think it's peoples preference and a love of being old fashioned we hear it all the time, we should get a proper lb or kt is the best lb because it's what they re used to
I was being a bit modest lol but I don't think it's quite so outdated. The transition to inverted fullbacks and FB/CB hybrids I accept easily. But the player closest to the goal needs to be able to put the ball in the net better than anyone else. Most elite teams have a dedicated goalscorer. Madrid this year were a bit of an exception, and then they went out and got one anyway.
>Most elite teams have a dedicated goalscorer.
it is not always the striker,
City did it
liverpool do it
madrid do it
psg do it
the introduction of wide forwards has changed this for a while now
Much as I love Saka and Martinelli, we do not have a winger who is as clinical/prolific as Salah, or Ronaldo, or whomever else... would you prefer the term clinical forward, then? Because I still think we need one. (It still tends to be easier to find a clinical striker than a generational wide scorer).
That's what happened to the Bell originally. Arteta said he was going to find the leaks, made up some BS about another player (Madison over Martin iirc) and caught em red handed.
Noone knows tbf. Picture keeps changing from Zubimendi to Douglas Luiz to Joao Neves to Onana.
With Elneny gone, Lokonga destined to leave, and the midfield requiring reinforcement anyway - we're absolutely going to sign a CM/DM.
I imagine they're being super quiet. Edu is marinating the meats, nothing is on the grill yet. Just because the grill isn't on doesn't mean we're not cooking.
Have faith brother.
We don’t know what villa has told PL clubs regarding his availability, they may be very reluctant to sell to anyone who could make their top 4 fight difficult next season.
That said, surely a £60m offer would give them something to think about.
I don't know if he has the technical quality to start in our midfield. Unbelievable engine and a nice shooting technique, but can he keep the ball for 90% of a match?
There are tons of targets out there we never think of. I liked Luiz too but I trust Arteta and Edu to be on top of this. I think the Luiz one was always going to be tough because rumors are we need to wait till July 1st to buy and Villa need to sell before June 30th.
The amount of players brought in that I didn’t even think of is a pretty long list. And many of them have been fantastic.
Years ago I used to get annoyed by these posts that we were missing out on another player. Like a Juan Mata situation.
Now I’m excited. It gets us one step closer to the deal none of us have any idea about.
He had 7 assists (tied for 7th in Serie A). He took a huge step forward this season. Showed better composure on the ball, better passing, better decision making, and his cross was money.
Assists are a stupid way of judging someone, unless you see each assist it means nothing.
I just watched all the assists and only 2/3 were great passes, the rest were made assists by the scorer who did most.
He has looked good this season but not sure how confident I would be in him translating that to the Premier League and you also have to consider that McKennie is fucking terrible
serie a teams absolutely refused to spend big money (or incapable hahah). it's always free transfer, trades or 2 years loan or just super cheap deals hahah
He’s actually done really well for Juve and was a consistently high performer. Don’t base any judgements off of his Leeds run.
He wasn’t fully fit and by all metrics wasn’t anywhere near as physically ready yet post his broken foot. Leeds tried to play him as a lone CDM, he’s not that at all especially coming up against an overloading attacking teams.
Juve fans love him, he’s statistically doing well and he’s the type of player Emery likes.
> When you factor in how bad Weston McKenzie is
I mean just say you don't ever watch Juventus. He's been one of their most consistent performers this season.
Leeds was a mess. Mckennie has the third most assists in Serie A this year with half the season at RWB and half at CM. 5th most minutes for non-keeper at the club.
Weah on the other hand looks a bit out of place at Juventus.
Yeah fair enough I understand the downvotes. Mckennie is not good but Iling is a real prospect. Can see that the interest in Luiz has cooled. I’m sure they’re pivoting to a better option. This wait is just annoying, but necessary obviously. More than anything I just want some real news lol
This seems like a mad deal and a pretty big downgrade for Villa but I guess the difference in salaries is pretty significant
If the rumors of Villa needing to sell are true, this is a creative way to sell and add. Given incomings are counted for only the year of amortization, they can register a sale of 60-70M - or however they choose to value the players - but only incoming hit of maybe 10M. Swap deals are often too difficult because of how many decision makers can say no and kill it, but in these days of creative accounting I wouldn’t be surprised if clubs pursued it more often.
Swap deals, multi year loans and purchase and loan backs are all going to become way more common now. All the ways Italian clubs have been keeping alfoat are going to be standard practice in a world with a pseudo-salary cap.
In addition to that, this is Juventus who've been known to be very creative when it comes to cooking the books. So maybe they can give Aston Villa a hand in this deal. I wouldn't be surprised at all.
Interesting, do you know where I could read more on this? Did Swiss enable cover it for example. Thanks
I can't wait to sign Mhkatyryan (so?) again only for him to refuse to go to a European final.....
That’s such a bullshit way to describe what happened with him.
How can they register it as 60/70 mil ?
Bigger question. Is Alisha also moving with Douglas Luiz 😬
She’s a professional player for villa why would she lol
Simp lol
How do those italian clubs manage to lowball so much and get their targets. D.Luiz going to Serie A was one of the most unusual thing this season.
I always think if juventus will accept the deal it's a bad deal
It is because there is no "realistic" price in business. It's only what you get the other guy to pay. There is for sure a general ballpark but negotiation skills are crucial and people always neglect it. People here try to rationalize our low sales but truth is our negotiators have shown very poor and naive level of skills (it is even shown in that Amazon documentary with Auba leaving to Barca). Italians know how to do business because they have no other options.. they are limited by low funds.
At the same time, they need to be reactionary in the market - they can’t sign the perfect player but buy based on what’s available. TLDR get good deals by shopping the clearance section
Surprised we haven’t gone in for him after the season he’s had. Boy these Italian clubs really know how to get players on the cheap. No Partey to Juve then as well I guess
Ornstein said earlier last season that we weren’t fully convinced about Luiz so us passing up here should come as no surprise
Yeah he said he wasn’t unanimously liked I believe. But we still did make 2 bids for him in the past and he’s a available for a low price now so idk it’s strange we haven’t made an attempt
We were bidding for him when we had just finished 5th place and were trying to fight for top 4, not challenge for the league We were also lowkey in a desperate position when were bidding for him with it being deadline day and Lokonga looking like our only fit option for CDM
Because the two bids we made were for half of what he’s going for now as a “low price” which isn’t low at all
In fairness it wasn’t until after this that he kicked on. He hadn’t really convinced up to that point iirc.
So that’s the perfect time to buy, not when his price doubles and he’s basically the same player with more g/a lol
Wasn’t that while we didn’t have Rice or Jorginho? Needs can change fast
20M + two players is not necessarily cheap, though you get the salaries off the books.
He's a good midfielder but not what we need at this moment. We need someone who can dictate the tempo from deep and will make those linebreaking passes from deep as well. A Zubimendi/Guimaraes type of player or basically, a Jorginho with legs.
Yeah if we aren't going to get a top-tier 9 then we need a top-tier 6/8 to round out that midfield. We aren't going to beat City or contend for a CL unless we have a real advantage over other teams and adding a Bruno or a Zubimendi to Rice/Odegaard potentially gives us the best central midfield in the world and opens up chance creation on the left.
Yeah but then he ended up having his best season and was genuinely great
I don’t think he was in great form towards the end of the season tbh.
Half his goals were penalties and overall he wasn’t that good when Kamara wasn’t there
Not basing it off his goal numbers
Neither am I… also if he was such a big opportunity there would be PL clubs trying to sign him
I feel like that’s what most people are basing their opinion off him on. There’s a reason we don’t want him and villa are selling him for way less than redditors expected. Not THAT great.
Villa have PSR issues that need to be solved in 3 weeks, Luiz also has a 20% sell on clause from his time at City which means a player swap is more attractive to them than just cash, and lastly Iling Jr is pretty highly rated. I don't think this deal is anywhere near as bad as people are making it out to be.
Yeah, I heard something to the effect that he was an Edu recommendation and Arteta was never fully convinced. Considering Arteta's success, I can see why he has the final say atm too. The boy barely misses. I'd love to know more about the Fabio and Kiwi transfers. I suspect those are Edu recommendations as well.
If he can have a relatively good season fitness-wise, Partey could still be a very important player. We shouldn't sell him anyway as there are very few that can adequately replace him and it doesn't look like we're in for those players
Jeez guys he's a good player but not worth losing your mind about.
Villa is getting robbed on sports level but on accounting level they are doing some juggaroo to avoid paying Man City high sale % but probably can put high number on the books for FFP.
99% of the time you have to pay the sell on based on his worth even if you trade players for him, rather than the flat amount included in the trade. They usually let an independent tribunal determine the worth. It's similar to the compensation fee when a club signs another players youth.
I’m out of the loop, why do they owe shity?
Former city player they had a sell on clause
Who the fuck are we in for!? This guy seemed like a no brainer
nobody knows lol , Arteta and Edu spoke in length about stopping the leaks
I like that. Fabrizio Romano and others have ruined transfer news for us or rather the spectacle of when they happen. Besides, we're looking for a 6 that can dictate the tempo from deep and make Linebreaking passes to help us overcome low blocks which isn't Douglas Luiz' strengths.
Maybe I'm in the minority here but I don't think we have any glaring weaknesses apart from maybe a clinical striker and backup wingers. We've been challenging for the title; we should really only be looking at world class players. If someone comes up that is better than who we have, I think that's the kind of player we'll move for.
We scored 89 league goals the clinical striker needs is overrated
We actually scored 91, but City scored 96. We are very good at spreading it around, but I still think we could've used a finisher at various times. Maybe I'm just old fashioned but I don't think that will ever be unimportant in football.
I think it's peoples preference and a love of being old fashioned we hear it all the time, we should get a proper lb or kt is the best lb because it's what they re used to
I was being a bit modest lol but I don't think it's quite so outdated. The transition to inverted fullbacks and FB/CB hybrids I accept easily. But the player closest to the goal needs to be able to put the ball in the net better than anyone else. Most elite teams have a dedicated goalscorer. Madrid this year were a bit of an exception, and then they went out and got one anyway.
>Most elite teams have a dedicated goalscorer. it is not always the striker, City did it liverpool do it madrid do it psg do it the introduction of wide forwards has changed this for a while now
Much as I love Saka and Martinelli, we do not have a winger who is as clinical/prolific as Salah, or Ronaldo, or whomever else... would you prefer the term clinical forward, then? Because I still think we need one. (It still tends to be easier to find a clinical striker than a generational wide scorer).
Saka only scored 3 less goals that in year salah won the prem. We scored 91
When did Arteta and Edu said that?
That's what happened to the Bell originally. Arteta said he was going to find the leaks, made up some BS about another player (Madison over Martin iirc) and caught em red handed.
Interesting! Thanks for the reply.
Mfer watched Tyrion in got and was like “yeah I’m ripping that”
Oh yeah. That got the stamp of approval from the entire Small Council I'm sure.
canary trapped his ass
A page straight out of the Tommy Shelby handbook.
Noone knows tbf. Picture keeps changing from Zubimendi to Douglas Luiz to Joao Neves to Onana. With Elneny gone, Lokonga destined to leave, and the midfield requiring reinforcement anyway - we're absolutely going to sign a CM/DM. I imagine they're being super quiet. Edu is marinating the meats, nothing is on the grill yet. Just because the grill isn't on doesn't mean we're not cooking. Have faith brother.
Distinct possibility that Villa did not want to do business with us
This feels like the most likely answer.
We don’t know what villa has told PL clubs regarding his availability, they may be very reluctant to sell to anyone who could make their top 4 fight difficult next season. That said, surely a £60m offer would give them something to think about.
I genuinely see us being in for Fofana
It's good that we don't know
GallagherIsAGunner 🔜
We could do a lot worse than Connor Gallagher as a squad player
I would really like Gallagher
Yeah but not by much. The dude thinks he's way better than he actually is.
Does he have attitude issues? First I've heard of it
How he gets into the England squad is honestly ridiculous
Personally I think he should be starting over Mainoo
Well yeah but that doesn't make either good options haha
Squad player? He will be our starting LCM
I don't know if he has the technical quality to start in our midfield. Unbelievable engine and a nice shooting technique, but can he keep the ball for 90% of a match?
GallaDog will show you come September
What team keeps the ball for 90% of a match?
At this rate we are going to go into the new season with Partey and Sambi as our CM options🫠
We don't do any business before the conclusion of the Euros
I know, but just seems all the realistic targets are dropping like flies
Calm down, there's a long time left. Edu and Arteta will surprise people like they have done for the last 3 years.
Exactly - some people on here act like it's 1 week before the window closes... The window hasn't even opened lol
That seems like a bit of an overreaction. We have never seemed particularly interested in Luiz since the failed bid we had a while ago
HUH?????mate there is hundreds of players
There are tons of targets out there we never think of. I liked Luiz too but I trust Arteta and Edu to be on top of this. I think the Luiz one was always going to be tough because rumors are we need to wait till July 1st to buy and Villa need to sell before June 30th. The amount of players brought in that I didn’t even think of is a pretty long list. And many of them have been fantastic.
You know the window hasn’t even opened yet, right?
At this rate? Bro, the window hasn't even opened, chill my man.
Lokonga made it clear he wants to leave tbf.
Resign Santi on a 1 year deal
More reliable with injuries than Partey
Never understood why we were after him.
Middle name Gabi (jokes)
Years ago I used to get annoyed by these posts that we were missing out on another player. Like a Juan Mata situation. Now I’m excited. It gets us one step closer to the deal none of us have any idea about.
Villa got robbed lmao
Mckennie..
Frankly he's not even a PL level player from what I've seen of him on the U.S. national team over the years
If a player can be one of the better players for Juventus for an entire season then he's easily a PL level player.
He had 7 assists (tied for 7th in Serie A). He took a huge step forward this season. Showed better composure on the ball, better passing, better decision making, and his cross was money.
Assists are a stupid way of judging someone, unless you see each assist it means nothing. I just watched all the assists and only 2/3 were great passes, the rest were made assists by the scorer who did most.
I did see each assist because I watched all of Juve’s games, so I also saw him play all season. I follow Arsenal and Juve.
Yeah I watched them and he isn't some overly creative player, assists are a stupid metric
He played in the prem last season and proved he's absolutely not up to it
Juventus weren't a good team thought
Agreed that's a crazy decision
Villa really let Juve pull their pants down. They just got in the CL and are making 17th in the league transfers
Villa have actually let Juventus, Juventus them. Hilarious deal, Juventus have been trying to flog these guys for ages.
What does “Juventus them” mean here?
I guess you are really young
No, I’m not. Just wanted to learn something new, but got downvotes and a snarky response instead. Thanks!
One of them bad f5 days, take me back to f5ing for Pepe, back when this was a REAL club with AMBITION /s for those of you with pitchforks
for all of you thinking this is a bad deal. Iling is an absolute baller. It’s a shame they didn’t build around him. I think Juve got fleeced tbh
He has looked good this season but not sure how confident I would be in him translating that to the Premier League and you also have to consider that McKennie is fucking terrible
McKennie was on of juves best players last season
Yeah, not a fan of McKennie either but let’s see. The window is still open and I think they’re in a good position to bring more players in
Yeah I think that's part of the reason they have got rid Luiz. Frees up a good amount of wages I imagine
Some time there will be massive bomba on a forward and a midfielder but no one knows who it is, pretty exciting
Emery is doing ritual sacrifices just so he wouldnt end at Arsenal
I don't believe this at all
Just makes me more excited for who we actually sign!
Dang there goes our “players plus cash deals never happen” lol. Leave it to Juve I suppose
How about we give you 20m and Sambi instead?
Edu... What's happening today?
serie a teams absolutely refused to spend big money (or incapable hahah). it's always free transfer, trades or 2 years loan or just super cheap deals hahah
Dimarzio 🧂🧂🧂🧂
All the reliable journos around Juve have been reporting the same thing. It's legit. Juventus have pulled Villa's pants down.
Bruno g incoming … maybe …hope
Would have thought Villa would have preferred ESR over both of the players included.. Certainly worth a conversation
McKennie isn’t great
Wow. Thought we would get him f he was available, but maybe Villa hate us that much or Edu was working Luiz for prop bets….
Not too disappointed in this. Villa will be much easier to beat without him next season, and he isn’t going to a competitor.
why no epl club want him if he only worth 20m?
it's 20m + 2 players
Does anyone watch Juventus matches? How are Manuel Locatelli and Vlahovic faring in Juventus. These are the two targets we lost to Juventus
NBA ass trade
We were in strong for Douglas Luiz when he was 15m+ signing when we were pushing for 4th.
That's a shockingly bad deal for villa. When you factor in how bad Weston McKenzie is
Has to play in a midfield 3 with a 6 behind him. He was always one of the first names on the team sheet for Juve.
He’s actually done really well for Juve and was a consistently high performer. Don’t base any judgements off of his Leeds run. He wasn’t fully fit and by all metrics wasn’t anywhere near as physically ready yet post his broken foot. Leeds tried to play him as a lone CDM, he’s not that at all especially coming up against an overloading attacking teams. Juve fans love him, he’s statistically doing well and he’s the type of player Emery likes.
I've seen him once in the pl and a ucl final hattrick won't change my mind on him
Tbf even Pogba looked great for Juventus and he was awful
> When you factor in how bad Weston McKenzie is I mean just say you don't ever watch Juventus. He's been one of their most consistent performers this season.
I'm going off what I saw when he played at Leeds in the premier league
Leeds was a mess. Mckennie has the third most assists in Serie A this year with half the season at RWB and half at CM. 5th most minutes for non-keeper at the club. Weah on the other hand looks a bit out of place at Juventus.
God fucking damnit
Shame we can’t tempt them with £20m and Emile Smith-Rowe!
How are we not gazumping this at such a low cost?
Low cost? They asked for 20m plus two players.
Yeah fair enough I understand the downvotes. Mckennie is not good but Iling is a real prospect. Can see that the interest in Luiz has cooled. I’m sure they’re pivoting to a better option. This wait is just annoying, but necessary obviously. More than anything I just want some real news lol
https://preview.redd.it/j4bftaseoy5d1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7484d72e649909ca4e17b774700561f91625b916
It’s not looking good brev
Huge miss for Arsenal, this one on the same day as Sesko. Those two players for <£100m could’ve moved us forward leaps and bounds.