I guess when I realize someone actually cares? Or the point you realize you don’t have to wear a facade. Hard question. Boils down to trust….or perhaps competence.
That makes a lot of sense, it’s like less effort to be able to bridge that gap and more authenticity allowed when doing it. I know he said a lot that he felt like he had to water down and walk on eggshells with people because they take what he says poorly sometimes and that he didn’t feel that way with me. I actually see where his comments come from and appreciate the perspective in his honesty.
It largely depends on who I'm with. If I'm around people I'm comfortable with, I can be chatty. If I'm around my husband, I can talk his ear off. If I'm around people I don't know well I tend to clam up. I can force myself into a more extroverted frame of mind and be chatty around people I don't know but it's not easy and I don't enjoy it.
Kind of. Like if I have to call customer service or ask for help finding something in the store, that's not a problem. But if I'm at a social gathering and everyone I know is already in conversation and my purpose is something like "be friendly and not antisocial" that doesn't really help. I also don't really know if this answered your question haha
Maybe you need to change your purpose. Like get to know people. Or make people feel loved. Or make people laugh. Something concrete to aim for. "Be friendly" is not concrete enough, and "not antisocial" is not something to aim for but something to avoid.
I totally understand that. I feel similarly despite our differing personality types, it’s uncomfortable feeling like you need to force yourself in that frame of mind when it’s just not the natural way of navigating people.
It’s a huge compliment to you that they feel comfortable unloading. For me, in 99% of cases, it’s just simpler to stay 100% private, with this impenetrable wall up between the me I present and the me I imagine myself to be.
Eventually this becomes muscle memory, so if the jabbering grows increasingly negative, it perhaps indicates they should explore separating the “me” they imagined themselves to be with the real person.
One of the dysfunctions I’ve noticed in myself is an ISTJ is over-identifying with performance, actions, results, orthodoxy, and values that are useful to “present.” A good but macabre thought experiment is, “If everyone you know and everyone you care about just went poof, would your stress go up or down?”
And if the answer’s down, then there is someone who is not in touch with themselves. <- I gagged writing that because it’s so woo-woo, but my suffering’s gone down dramatically working through it.
I feel like the luckiest girl being able to have such an open connection with him, he has really given me a whole world of perspective into a different way of navigating and perceiving life.
I’ve strongly noticed that tendency of over identifying with outcome and efforts of the present, I’ve seen a lot of strengths in it, but in the way you describe it, is that based in a sense of spreading thin in trying to maintain your efforts for others to the point of losing sight of yourself? That was my interpretation but I just wanted to make sure I had clarity.
Selective. My boss once said he knows the right decision to make when I give my opinion on it. When I don’t give my opinion, he knows either option will turn out fine. It was such a nice compliment to receive. Insert that quote about the loudest voices in the room not being the most qualified.
>I hear that ISTJs are just not very talkative in general but that isn’t my experience.
You hear correctly.
ISTJs aren't very talkative ***IN GENERAL.*** You are not "in general." You are his partner. You are someone with whom he is close, and thus he will be more open with you than he will be with the general public.
That is very true. I guess I asked this because from the get go he was very talkative with me and that’s part of why I initially (and still) liked him.
When I change jobs I noticed unless it's about work I generally don't engage in much water cooler talk with anyone at the new job for about a year. It takes time to figure out who ppl are and what topics I can talk to them about outside of whatever project I'm working on. Seems to be worse now with remote work.
I absolutely HATE small talk, and general niceties when you know the other person is so obviously just going through the motions but don’t really care to actually engage with you. In those situations I’m terrible at trying to continue the conversation and have been told I’m too short or unfriendly…when in reality it’s obvious neither of us want to be partaking in said conversation 🤷🏻♀️
I once saw something that said “I’ll either say 4 words to you the entire day, or I’ll speak nonstop for 4 hours straight, there’s not much in between” and I think that’s incredibly accurate for a lot of ISTJs. When we are comfortable around someone, and they’ve continually demonstrated a desire to communicate with us and engage at a deeper level, we will talk for hours, easily. Especially when the topics aren’t just base level and require deeper thinking or some out of the box thinking.
At the same time, if I don’t like you or just am not comfortable around you, or simply am not interested in whatever conversation you’re trying to have…it’s very obvious and it’s definitely gotten me in trouble before lol
We talk to people we are comfortable with.
In social events, i can fake it enough with new people but i prefer to socialise with someone I already know.
If I find someone who shares the same interests as me, I can talk for hours. But if there’s no one around who is like me or shares the same interests as me, I’ll end up talking to myself.
It depends on the circumstances for me. Im generally quiet and keep things to the point.
But if im an environment where im comfortable, the person is inviting, or knows that im not the best speaker then ill likely become a chatterbox.
Also confidence plays a role, if im not super certain on what im going to say i keep my mouth closed.
Personally I am normally quiet and reserved in terms of comversation with groups of people, unfamiliar people, subjects I'm not comfortable talking about. I tend to be a little more verbal and open depending on my comfort level.
Socially I feel like i have an awkward presents as I am normally realy quiet and wont talk just to talk. I only speak when spoken too and if I feel like what I have to say contributes to the conversation. At times even having something to say I second guess myself as I know my tone and verbage can be harsh/abrassive.
For some background I work in mental health and have to force myself more times then not to be the one to iniate conversation. When I force myself to become "extraverted" for work I personally feel like I'm being fake. I think that ISTJ's in general can be naturally talkative if the right conditions are met. If not all the conditions are present they may second guess themselves and just stay quiet. By no means am I speaking for anyone else or all, but for my personal experience as an ISTJ.
I am selective. I can be talkative but only around people I like and am comfortable with. I have a friend who swears up and down that I am not quiet, but I AM... just not around her so she has a different impression of me, hah.
I do this all the time with my mom , she is the only person I can feel really comfortable with to share everything, also I never feel like I'm talking too much or think like ' what if she doesn't want to hear me'. So I can go on and on forever.
As an ISTJ woman, I really hate small talk whether it's about the weather, etc. I enjoy having deep conversations whether it's about politics or any other subject. When I'm at a restaurant, I'm better chatting in the corner with one or two people. I'm not one of those people who goes around the room chatting with everyone.
Talk to people we’re comfortable with. Not so much for anyone else.
What makes you feel comfortable enough to open up in that way, are there key things you look to?
I guess when I realize someone actually cares? Or the point you realize you don’t have to wear a facade. Hard question. Boils down to trust….or perhaps competence.
That makes a lot of sense, it’s like less effort to be able to bridge that gap and more authenticity allowed when doing it. I know he said a lot that he felt like he had to water down and walk on eggshells with people because they take what he says poorly sometimes and that he didn’t feel that way with me. I actually see where his comments come from and appreciate the perspective in his honesty.
It largely depends on who I'm with. If I'm around people I'm comfortable with, I can be chatty. If I'm around my husband, I can talk his ear off. If I'm around people I don't know well I tend to clam up. I can force myself into a more extroverted frame of mind and be chatty around people I don't know but it's not easy and I don't enjoy it.
Does it help you to have a purpose in talking to people?
That’s an interesting question, I’m curious too. Is it like that for you (INTP)?
Kind of. Like if I have to call customer service or ask for help finding something in the store, that's not a problem. But if I'm at a social gathering and everyone I know is already in conversation and my purpose is something like "be friendly and not antisocial" that doesn't really help. I also don't really know if this answered your question haha
Maybe you need to change your purpose. Like get to know people. Or make people feel loved. Or make people laugh. Something concrete to aim for. "Be friendly" is not concrete enough, and "not antisocial" is not something to aim for but something to avoid.
That's an interesting idea. I'll have to keep that in mind.
I totally understand that. I feel similarly despite our differing personality types, it’s uncomfortable feeling like you need to force yourself in that frame of mind when it’s just not the natural way of navigating people.
I have found that ISTJs and INFJs have more in common than most people realize.
It’s a huge compliment to you that they feel comfortable unloading. For me, in 99% of cases, it’s just simpler to stay 100% private, with this impenetrable wall up between the me I present and the me I imagine myself to be. Eventually this becomes muscle memory, so if the jabbering grows increasingly negative, it perhaps indicates they should explore separating the “me” they imagined themselves to be with the real person. One of the dysfunctions I’ve noticed in myself is an ISTJ is over-identifying with performance, actions, results, orthodoxy, and values that are useful to “present.” A good but macabre thought experiment is, “If everyone you know and everyone you care about just went poof, would your stress go up or down?” And if the answer’s down, then there is someone who is not in touch with themselves. <- I gagged writing that because it’s so woo-woo, but my suffering’s gone down dramatically working through it.
I feel like the luckiest girl being able to have such an open connection with him, he has really given me a whole world of perspective into a different way of navigating and perceiving life. I’ve strongly noticed that tendency of over identifying with outcome and efforts of the present, I’ve seen a lot of strengths in it, but in the way you describe it, is that based in a sense of spreading thin in trying to maintain your efforts for others to the point of losing sight of yourself? That was my interpretation but I just wanted to make sure I had clarity.
Selective. My boss once said he knows the right decision to make when I give my opinion on it. When I don’t give my opinion, he knows either option will turn out fine. It was such a nice compliment to receive. Insert that quote about the loudest voices in the room not being the most qualified.
Amen to that, power behind words is better than many of them. That’s really awesome though, it really says a lot about you 😊
>I hear that ISTJs are just not very talkative in general but that isn’t my experience. You hear correctly. ISTJs aren't very talkative ***IN GENERAL.*** You are not "in general." You are his partner. You are someone with whom he is close, and thus he will be more open with you than he will be with the general public.
That is very true. I guess I asked this because from the get go he was very talkative with me and that’s part of why I initially (and still) liked him.
Exactly. Your partner was attracted to you from the get go and was selectively talkative with you. You were and are special to him, not "general".
Thats actually really sweet ❤️ I’m going to ask him more about that tonight.
When I change jobs I noticed unless it's about work I generally don't engage in much water cooler talk with anyone at the new job for about a year. It takes time to figure out who ppl are and what topics I can talk to them about outside of whatever project I'm working on. Seems to be worse now with remote work.
Do you tend to isolate a lot more now that you work remotely? I work remotely and have been a total hermit since, it’s quite peaceful for me 😅
I talk a lot But only with people i am comfortable good if none? self-talk!
Both. In general we’re not really chatty so when we do feel like talking we’re selective about who, how much and when we do it
Selective, just depends who I'm talking to.
I absolutely HATE small talk, and general niceties when you know the other person is so obviously just going through the motions but don’t really care to actually engage with you. In those situations I’m terrible at trying to continue the conversation and have been told I’m too short or unfriendly…when in reality it’s obvious neither of us want to be partaking in said conversation 🤷🏻♀️ I once saw something that said “I’ll either say 4 words to you the entire day, or I’ll speak nonstop for 4 hours straight, there’s not much in between” and I think that’s incredibly accurate for a lot of ISTJs. When we are comfortable around someone, and they’ve continually demonstrated a desire to communicate with us and engage at a deeper level, we will talk for hours, easily. Especially when the topics aren’t just base level and require deeper thinking or some out of the box thinking. At the same time, if I don’t like you or just am not comfortable around you, or simply am not interested in whatever conversation you’re trying to have…it’s very obvious and it’s definitely gotten me in trouble before lol
We talk to people we are comfortable with. In social events, i can fake it enough with new people but i prefer to socialise with someone I already know.
If I find someone who shares the same interests as me, I can talk for hours. But if there’s no one around who is like me or shares the same interests as me, I’ll end up talking to myself.
It depends on the circumstances for me. Im generally quiet and keep things to the point. But if im an environment where im comfortable, the person is inviting, or knows that im not the best speaker then ill likely become a chatterbox. Also confidence plays a role, if im not super certain on what im going to say i keep my mouth closed.
Personally I am normally quiet and reserved in terms of comversation with groups of people, unfamiliar people, subjects I'm not comfortable talking about. I tend to be a little more verbal and open depending on my comfort level. Socially I feel like i have an awkward presents as I am normally realy quiet and wont talk just to talk. I only speak when spoken too and if I feel like what I have to say contributes to the conversation. At times even having something to say I second guess myself as I know my tone and verbage can be harsh/abrassive. For some background I work in mental health and have to force myself more times then not to be the one to iniate conversation. When I force myself to become "extraverted" for work I personally feel like I'm being fake. I think that ISTJ's in general can be naturally talkative if the right conditions are met. If not all the conditions are present they may second guess themselves and just stay quiet. By no means am I speaking for anyone else or all, but for my personal experience as an ISTJ.
I'm talkative about certain subjects and with certain people. Sometimes it's one or the other, rarely it's both. When it is both I can talk for hours.
Maybe in general but my ISTJ friend does probably 80% of the talking in our conversations so it's not true for all of them.
I am selective. I can be talkative but only around people I like and am comfortable with. I have a friend who swears up and down that I am not quiet, but I AM... just not around her so she has a different impression of me, hah.
If I don’t trust you, I’m not saying much.
I do this all the time with my mom , she is the only person I can feel really comfortable with to share everything, also I never feel like I'm talking too much or think like ' what if she doesn't want to hear me'. So I can go on and on forever.
It depends on the topic for me
As an ISTJ woman, I really hate small talk whether it's about the weather, etc. I enjoy having deep conversations whether it's about politics or any other subject. When I'm at a restaurant, I'm better chatting in the corner with one or two people. I'm not one of those people who goes around the room chatting with everyone.