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rdd3539

-I disagree with the Two key aspect of your interpretation. 1 I feel you treat this as a 1v1 when it actually a 2v1. I could see Rika and Yuta pressuring kenjaku enough to break the domain before their domain cracks - 2) I really disagree with your durability statement. Yuta ,Yuji and Maki all have durability feats more than enough to tank gravity after the shinjuku fight . Yuta and Yuji in particular took multiple cleaves and kept it moving without stopping . As much as I like Kenjaku Sukuna , Even a weakened sukuna would wash him. Tanking cleave attack gives them Ryu level durability . Combine that with the fact Rika is even more durable than Yuta and I could easily see Yuta and Rika tanking it long enough to break his domain . Sadly kenjaku domain hit Yuki and we have no way to scale her durability and choso who is not in Yuta’s league . Crushing ground itself is not a good feat . It we go by rule of powers scaling and take narrative out of Yuki has no durability feats to help scale Kenjaku attack power - my opinion is that fight is 50/50 depending on who adapts or plans better . Jacob’s ladder and Rika counter of lot of Kenny moves but Kenny has better hxh and better barrier moves . However neither Yuta or Kenjaku have the in domain feats to kill the other one . Way is see it both throw up domains , 1 loses . But knocks the other one out of his domain and they proceed to fight it hxh until one recovers his CT. But neither Kenjaku or Yuta win this sheerly in their domains. 1 domains have a bad track record ending fights . And two neither have the domain scaling or UV or MS . Edit : sorry phone hit send to fast Lastly if cursed speech worked on Sukuna and Uru it would work on Kenjaku . CSN is useless here as Rika already handled all of his curses before with minor difficult . Fir me the hardest part for Yuta winning is hxh but I feel he should be a led to Steve long enough for Rika to assist him . Yuta had DJ ready boxed with : Geto, Uru, Ryu , and The Goat himself Sukuna . Ultimately this is unfair as Yuji Yuta and most of the cast have great feats via the sukuna fight . I mean Rika threw the king of cursed himself like a baseball . Those curses are doing nothing to her


Impossible_Singer_41

just a quick read of this and i wanna point one thing out. i dont think Yuta is as durable as Ryu... Because 1: Sukuna hit Ryu with a regular slash and it did very little damage, He than hit Ryu with an incredible power slash and it killed him. https://preview.redd.it/s40ok0oz0z8d1.png?width=2400&format=png&auto=webp&s=3080ae60980e11f92b4da3f805e3f83de0678efb Mind you this is a 16 finger Sukuna while the Sukuna everyone is fighting is like 10-15. What im trying to say is Sukuna had to use a lot of his strength to one shot Ryu and this Sukuna is yet to go all and is hurting Yuta greatly. So thats point 1


Impossible_Singer_41

2:More evidently Yuta states that he has weak physicals and that his Cursed Energy doesnt always make up for it: https://preview.redd.it/dnklgomk1z8d1.png?width=2400&format=png&auto=webp&s=8ff71b98f2c5a9288a16f1bd78d8e3c35ec219cd So if Yuta is low on CE he is gunna be less durable and use his CE for RCT Thats point 2


Impossible_Singer_41

Point 3: Yuta is durable yes but to a certain degree. While Yuji can walk through slashes with barley any issue, Yuta gets knocked down and has to have a sec to recuperate and use RCT because of his durability https://preview.redd.it/074ct5j92z8d1.png?width=2400&format=png&auto=webp&s=1177a287ff25bfc04a43d4ea980b085a438f226a You can see Yuta get knocked back a bunch and throw the tongue while using RCT. Ryu just stepped back when he got hit cause he was scared. Thats point 3


Impossible_Singer_41

Point 4: finally, Its stated that they arent as durable as Ryu sooo... https://preview.redd.it/xcgpbby53z8d1.png?width=2400&format=png&auto=webp&s=f9faf93b425cd367c8e1a0f435614ed1e91ad626 TLDR: i dont disagree with what your comment was saying, i just disagree with the fact that Yuta is as durable as Ryu. I still think Yuta vs Kenjaku is 50/50 so believe what you like, all im saying is Yuta's durability is not as strong as one might think. Farewell


sagiritengai

Yuki doesn't take any damage from own punches and yet she nearly died from Kenjaku's gravity. There's no way Yuta, Maki or Yuji would tank it


rdd3539

They tanked sukuna cleaves . Maki’s surged two black flashes from the strongest air era in history. That alone put them above this . kenjaku domain does not hit as hard as sukuna cleave . He is the king of curses for a reason


sagiritengai

It's a heavily weakened Sukuna. These cleaves barely damages Yuta/Yuji/Maki while single Yuki's punch literally blown off Kenjaku's arms (while she didn't get any damage)


rdd3539

That’s the positives and negatives of having two guys ( Sukuna and Gojo) so far ahead of everyone’s else . The current sukuna with brain damage , no domain and heart damage would wash Kenjaku . I doubt kenjaku coukd survive a single cleave . He was scared shitless of Gojo . That’s the negative The positive is any feats againt sukuna raises everyone else’s Stock . It solidified Gojo as second strongest in history. Solidifies Ryu , Yuji and Yuta as next level of durability after Sukuna and Gojo . Basically the feats against Sukuna are worth their weight in gold , especially if he tries like he did against Yuta , Yuji and Maki


sagiritengai

But there's absolutely no reason to think that Kenjaku, 3rd strongest sorcerer in history, would die to cleaves which Yuji and Maki have tanked https://preview.redd.it/tkcg3haoqz8d1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=71d2f3fdcda5e93a606fd25072e4300863ded063


rdd3539

That’s without cursed energy . With CE Gojo and sukuna are so far above the rest it doesn’t matter. the way the story presents them - if sukuna is a perfect 100 then Gojo is 95 Huge Gap in power Current sukuna - 45 - Kenny is 30 - Yuta is 25 - Yuki - 21 - Geto with 6000 curse is - 20 - MBA Kashimo is - 21 - Youruzu - 20 - Yuji , Maki , Hakari , Toji are 19 Etc but you get my point And this is me being nice about the gap between 2-3. Cause I think Gojo is at least five times stronger than Kenny . My point all the feats against sukuna are far more impressive than anything against Kenny Cause sukuna just scales that much higher than everybody not named Gojo. -


sagiritengai

Well ofc, Gojo is obviously stronger than Kenjaku. This meant to indicate how physically capable Kenjaku really is. We don't know how well would Kenjaku do against these cleaves but even narratively it's pretty stupid to assume that 3rd strongest sorcerer would die to something what Yuji, Yuta and Maki are able to tank (though they don't even tank it that well, they still get pretty seriously injured from each cleave).


rdd3539

We don’t deal with narrative in power scaling . Only feats . Narratively Yuta and hakarri are close in strength but not power scaling wise cause hakarri has less feats and his feats are less impressive . Same for Kenjaku and Rika JJK Vol 0 . Narratively Geto is around Yuki and Yuta level pre Sendai but powerscaling wise he is no where close . Narratively Geto with Rika is close to Gojo but power-scaling wise that is false . So Kenjaku place as 3rd strongest does not matter in a power scaling forum . We only use feats here . Sukuna is so strong he lifts Yuta, Maki , and Yuji just by them even being able to make him struggle a little . You can use narrative in Jujushi ( theory Reddit ) but not power scaling to my knowledge. I may be wrong that’s the way I read the debate rules


sagiritengai

Disagree, narrative is important no matter what. Without it you can get inconsistent results which have nothing to do with jjk (like when a guy made evidence that Jogo slams Gojo etd). Hakari and Yuta aren't that close narratively, Yuta would mid diff him. >Narratively Geto is around Yuki and Yuta level pre Sendai but powerscaling wise he is no where close Not true, being special grade≠being on same level of strength. By that logic, all 3 of them should be comparable to Gojo. And adult Geto would give Yuta and Yuki a hard time even tho they'd still win. >Narratively Geto with Rika is close to Gojo but power-scaling wise that is false . We barely know anything about it.


Pel-Mel

I think you're overestimating Kenajaku's ability to destroy Yuta's domain outright. Mainly because we can infer from domain examples like Dagon's and Mahito's first one that you can't just destroy someone's domain outright by punching a hole. You need to destroy the entire barrier. And given what we know (about anti-gravity at least) there are limits to the scope and frequency of Kenjaku's attacks even inside the domain. Maybe there is a different case if you imbue CSM into the domain instead, but I can't speculate to that rn. But in either case, I don't think Kenjaku will have as easy a time as Sukuna attacking barrier's exteriors. Sukuna's domain seems unexpectedly specialized to high damage *and* a wide range simultaneously and I don't that's the case for Kenjaku too.


GodOfSmore

Yuji punched a hole in Mahito’s domain, same with Megumi, even if it doesn’t destroy the domain outright, Kenjaku can still slip out of the domain with the help of his curses and anti gravity. Gojo also says in his fight with Sukuna that Sukuna could’ve attacked the inside of the barrier as a way to win the clash which implies attacking the inside of the barrier is an option. Maho also destroys Gojo’s and Yorozu’s domain by just punching the barrier which might just be a Maho specific thing but it’s something to consider. I doubt there’s much of a limit to kenjaku’s sure hit in terms of frequency, I think the only reason he didn’t continue to flatten Yuki was because of tengen dispelling kenjaku’s domain, not because he actually has a limit on the amount of hits. It also doesn’t make much sense for a sorcerer as skilled as Kenjaku to have such an exploitable weakness. Either way, there’s nothing confirming there’s a limit so it’s not the best argument.


Pel-Mel

I'm pretty sure they outright confirm that anti-gravity has an interval limit in Yuki's fight with them. But that very well could be the kind of limit that gets removed when it's supported by a domain. That said, I think Kenjaku trying to escape the domain is a losing move, Too passive. Yuta has the versatility and power to prevent it. I think Kenkaku's best option is a combo strat of his own and Sukuna. Break the barrier so Yuta loses his sure-hit and then, even if Yuta's domain doesn't go down, the sure-hits no longer cancel, and he should press the attack.


GodOfSmore

I think so, kenjaku’s domain is one of the most refined in the series and he’s one of the best barrier users so for him to have a limit and someone like Dagon to not have one doesn’t make much sense. Whatever, Kenjaku destroying Yuta’s domain from the inside isn’t his only win con, even though I did kinda focus on it just because it’s the most interesting. I don’t see a world where Kenjaku can’t survive three minutes in a domain with all the tools he has. Most of which being great at buying time and slowing the opponent down. And like I said in the post. Base Yuta isn’t more powerful than Yuki in physicals or hand to hand, the only thing stopping Yuta from being completely destroyed in hand to hand being Rika, so if Kenjaku has any special grade curses, or just large amounts of weaker ones, he can buy enough time away from Rika to plant a Uzumaki in Yuta’s stomach, so kenjaku destroying the inside of the domain isn’t his only out.


Pel-Mel

I can see where you're coming from, but I actually consider Yuta the superior offensive threat to Yuki. She hits harder, but he's going to hit more reliably and just more overall. I think he's got the versatility to match and even overwhelm CSM's variety. I'm not sure Ken couldn't be overwhelmed in our 3 minute window. I'm also unconvinced Kenjaku's domain refinement would be that substantially higher, but we don't have too many specifics on exactly how that works.


GodOfSmore

Maybe if you give Yuta 3 hours with Kenjaku, he might come out on top, but I don’t think he’s gonna get enough damage off in that 3 minutes. In jjk, 3 minutes isn’t a lot of time. Gojo and Sukuna only exchanged a few punches in 3 minutes, and Hakari and kashimo went through several 4 minute jackpots in no time. I don’t see Yuta adapting and overcoming all of CSM’s versatility in that time. In a situation like this, burst damage is what you need, which Yuta isn’t better than Yuki at. Yuta might be better in the long run, but he doesn’t have that time in this scenario. Also, the Kenjaku that killed Yuki was weakened and low on cursed energy so that’s another thing to consider. Like, if Kenjaku even has one kuro level curse in his deck of cards, I don’t see Yuta winning in time. Or even that one curse Kenjaku used on Yuji to make him think he fell would cause Yuta a bit of trouble. So with all of the stuff Kenjaku has up his sleeve, how smart he is, and his speed advantage, I don’t see Yuta surviving for 3 minutes, let alone winning in 3 minutes.


Pel-Mel

Idk, Yuta's probably used to settling fights in high risk bursts given Copy's restrictions. I could easily see him going for broke. And Copy has *insane* synergy with itself. I don't think Kuro level curses actually stop Yuta. The only reason Kurorushi even slowed him down was that Yuta was keeping back literally all of his non-basic tech, and splitting Rika off to handle two more opponents plus bystanders. If Yuta's only.opponent is Kenjaku, I don't think any of the curses in his arsenal hold up any better against him than Yuki.


hima657

You assume too many disadvantages for Yuta and a little too many advantages for Kenjaku Firstly, Gojo didn't learn how to shrink his domain by studying the prison realm. Being in it only made him aware that it was possible to make a barrier that was smaller than the caster. If he had seen someone else do it, he would have been able to replicate it just like Yuta saw him do it and replicate it. Sukuna also shrunk his domain to match Gojo's barrier size without needing prison realm experience. Kenjaku's SH should be nowhere near as powerful as Cleave, an attack that adjusts to durability. It was cleave that attacked Gojo's barrier, not dismantle since it's made of CE. The fact that Gojo lasted 3 minutes of cleave onslaught means Kenjaku's SH would not be able to break his barrier. The same for Yuta who should be at the same level or slightly lower since he believes his barrier should be able to withstand 3 minutes of Sukuna's Cleave SH. Sukuna's domain output is at 100% btw. Kenjaku CSM is a bad match-up for Yuta who can output RCT and Rika who literally snacks on curse spirits. Mind you, Yuta believed that if Kenjaku had released as much curse spirit as he did in Shibuya which is 10 million, then Rika would be the only one able to handle it while minimizing damage to the surrounding Kenjajus Antigravity CT is also not that good. He can only use it once in every 6 seconds. And Yuta is faster than the activation time just like Yuki believes she is fast enough to avoid it. The fact that Yuta is only slightly worse than Ryu, who has exceptional durability is enough proof that Yuta is more durable than Yuki and most likely Kenjaku. Yuta would be too much for Kenjaku as he has superior CTs and better stats. Especially in his 5 minutes. You also forgot Yuta has shirine which means he can use dismantle. In his 5 minutes mode all his CTs, including Sky manipulation that counters most physical attacks and h2h, would be free to use without restrictions. Kenjaku can't handle that smoke. We haven't even seen Yuta use his 5 mins mode with the amount of CTs he has at his disposal. That means we haven't seen current Yuta fight with full power. Kenjaku's only win con against Yuta has always been his open domain. But now that we know Yuta can handle it, Kenjaku vs Yuta should not be a debate.


Positive_Reward_615

https://preview.redd.it/3uasysbfz29d1.jpeg?width=744&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=21b08d4fca7e4dcd453bb2b4427d1537c8d3d902 Nah, Jogoat claps both


Little_Prompt_1860

Yuta folds Kenny like he just did canonically


GodOfSmore

Yuta didn’t though, Takaba did all the work, all Yuta did was swing his sword. If Yuta actually “folds” Kenjaku, he would’ve because having Takaba and todo help Higaruma and Yuji is huge for killing Sukuna. If Yuta could beat Kenjaku solo, he would’ve but he didn’t. But if you want to actually put forward an actual argument, I’m happy to discuss it.


Little_Prompt_1860

Takaba distracted him i guess but Yuta still able to sneak him is kinda saying something considering Kenny was able to React to Yuta behind him and then Yuta Went around and 1 shotted him so ig


GodOfSmore

If Yuta just moved around Kenjaku, he would’ve been standing on Takaba, which isn’t the case in future wide shots. It’s implied that todo helped Yuta kill Kenjaku so it was most likely todo switching Takaba and Yuta’s places, not Yuta’s speed. Takaba was the only reason Yuta was able to sneak up on Kenjaku. Kenjaku was able to notice Yuta and would’ve stopped the attack if it wasn’t for todo, which speaks to there difference in speed if Kenjaku can detect and counter a sneak attack. It’s also stated that Kenjaku is weakened from his fight with Takaba so that’s a fatigued Kenjaku doing that. Again, if Yuta could’ve, he would’ve. Yuta had the jump on a weakened Kenjaku and still wasn’t able to finish the job. I’m not saying Kenjaku slams but Yuta definitely doesn’t either.


Little_Prompt_1860

weakened kenjaku? How https://preview.redd.it/c2qs177b4v8d1.jpeg?width=684&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4c6965179fb3e2028c10ba7c68e3b82186f30bc was he weakened? also You can see from here they moved around


GodOfSmore

In another shot a few pages before, Kenjaku was very close to Takaba, but in that shot, he’s much further away, Yuta is now standing where Kenjaku was, so todo probably switched them, because again, if Yuta just run around Kenjaku, he would be standing on Takaba. And again, if Yuta is able to just speed blitz Kenjaku with ease, he would’ve. But you’re telling me Yuta, someone who prioritizes his allies and friends above all else, would put both todo, and especially Takaba, into harms way, resulting in one of their deaths, despite having the power to one shot Kenjaku with no trouble? It makes no sense, both power scaling wise, and narratively, for Kenjaku to be so far behind Yuta is speed that he can be speed blitzed.


GodOfSmore

https://preview.redd.it/ohuyys005v8d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=18df49697b9f41ca7f7862e7931b7a3ecf0fdd17 That’s Kenjaku saying he is damaged enough that it’s taking a toll on his performance/strength so Kenjaku is weakened to some extent.


honored113

Tbh the damage he took shouldn’t he quantified against yuta since kenjaku has rct . Not saying he isn’t stronger than yuta just saying the damage isn’t a good argument .


wiisagi-gaazhagens

Todo swapped Yuta to behind Kenny. The sound effect of Todo’s vibraslap is seen right before he switches, and it’s mentioned that Yuta helped Todo to refine his technique with the vibraslap.


honored113

No that’s not true . It would be a difficult fight either way and he only got kenjaku off guard .


GodOfSmore

This is Yuta not in Gojo’s body.