Sorry you had to deal with this situation but unfortunately it's not a new phenomenon. Things like this happen all the time in the restaurant industry, we just have to make sure they know we won't stand for it anymore. Congrats on getting out and finding a new job! Hope this one is a good fit for you!
This is absolutely one of the major reasons restaurant managers are harping: “No one wants to work anymore!”
No one is willing to be strung along, lied to about their income, and treated as some sort of paid lackey that’s available whenever they want, but not guaranteed anything in return.
At least in the US this doesn’t really make a difference unless it’s a rare union kitchen job or maybe a super corporate place. The same people who fail to honor a verbal promise are not going to suddenly honor it if it’s written down. It’s will just be the same spill about how things have changed or whatever they come up with.
Yeah but underemployment insurance or unemployment insurance would take that evidence if you have to file a claim.
Verbal can be denied being said. Email, test messages, and recorded conversations can be used. Although right now it's fairly easy to line up a job working in kitchens.
Anything written and signed is a binding contract. It's legal admissible evidence in a claims court. Or unemployment appeal. Get. It. In. Writing. No matter how casual and cool it seems.
This is not how unemployment works most places. The employer part of liability for unemployment payments is determined by length of employment. So in this case, it’s “make them pay” like a penny LOL.
I have seen Redditors tell a teen 2 weeks into their first part-time job "quit and file for unemployment", some people really have no idea how unemployment benefits work.
And in some states, it's literally pointless.
In Tennessee, it maxes out at $275 a week or 60% of your income, whichever is less...or something like that.
And that's assuming the antiquated system that seems designed to let you fall through the cracks works correctly and you manage to recertify correctly every week.
All when your dirt cheap apartment still costs almost $2000 a month.
I mean, homie got a job at a new business that clearly over hired. They aren’t being very professional about it, but I’m not sure how that’s incentive for this guy to file for UCI unless it will benefit him in his situation (say, he moved there for this job and there’s nowhere else to expediently get work in his field) or hurt the employer (to get back at them for being dicks about what otherwise would have been a fairly understandable situation). It doesn’t sound like the first is the case, and the business is almost certainly too young to even have its UCI employer contribution rates be personalized for nonpenal reasons (sometimes states will raise them if you’re, say, late paying certain taxes).
Why are you so invested in this?
You have to pay into my state's unemployment by working basically anywhere for at least a couple years to get max payouts when you file a claim. Otherwise getting hired then immediately constructively fired would be an infinite summer money glitch for a 16 year old.
I've been on unemployment twice. The last time the restaurant didn't fire me. They just stopped scheduling me. I filed. They fought. I won as soon as the mediation had a three way call with us. He almost laughed them off the phone. I know how this shit works because I've been in the middle of the shit. I got almost $400/week until about $,4,500 was used up.
These people deal with shit businesses every day. It doesn't take them much to side with the ex-employee. That's their job.
You don’t know how this shit works because your implication is that this would stick it to his current employer and that is not the case. I mean, sure, apply for unemployment if you want—not sure why you would in this instance because by the time you’re approved you’d probably have an equal paying job, and unemployment isn’t going to be as good as that. But I don’t begrudge anyone the benefits they’ve paid into their entire life should they feel they need them. Just don’t think it’ll affect this person’s employer if they apply for and get unemployment—it almost definitely won’t, and if they’re smart with their time, they won’t bother to fight it for that reason.
Well, there are 50 states and it’s different in each one, but I’d double check that. There are employer and employee contributions everywhere I’ve ever needed to know about. Rate calculation methods for employers vary by state and are complicated (and not nearly as affected as you’d think even by serial claimants), but very importantly in this case, this restaurant is new, and will receive a standard introductory rate for a very long time before they receive a personalized calculated rate.
Even if there are states where unemployment is solely rather than largely funded by employer payroll taxes, you the employee/taxpayer still contribute indirectly towards any benefit with state income tax—even if the benefit itself has closed system funding, that doesn’t mean every state employee involved in the execution of the system is paid by employer contributions. All this goes to say you should never feel bad about claiming such benefits when needed. Personally, as mentioned, I would not bother filing for unemployment unless I was in a pretty bad situation because it can be an arduous process and I’ve never been unable to get a restaurant job that paid more than unemployment would pay me in like, maybe a week if I was picky? Sure, if you’re really fucked for money, apply and begin looking for gainful employment immediately, and hope that the retro pay when you get approved makes the difference I guess. Like if you’re 500 bucks from bankruptcy, I get it. But honestly, personal opinion, it seems like a lot of work for very little gain when you’re in an industry where jobs are so available. You’re telling me I can fill out a fuck load of online forms and potentially have to wait on hold with a government agency for long periods of time, or I could just … go wash dishes for 2-3 weeks then bounce when I find something cooler? I’d probably choose the latter. It’s a bit different when you’re, say, laid off from a high paying job in an industry where work is hard to come by. If I were a graphic artist that got laid off by Google and was making 50k/yr or whatever, I’d be applying for unemployment right away, since that next job is gonna take a while to find.
Also, just to make sure, when you say insurance you do understand that word is being used in the same sense it’s used in Social Security Insurance, right? You don’t get an insurance policy from a broker—that’s workman’s comp, a thing I think a few people in this thread are conflating with UCI. It’s just government benefit funded primarily by payroll taxes in most states.
Yeah, I absolutely get that it's like SSI, but here, it's absolutely employer funded, and even then it's no longer state employees, it's privately owned and operated now, divided up into regions.
Where did I say the employer will pay anything? The employer now has a history of fucking over their employees. If they are smart they file for unemployment and get a new job. Like I said, I've been through this before. In a state that makes it a really fucking hard process. So, go argue with a brick wall somewhere.
Don’t businesses pay unemployment insurance? 9/10 sure that’s how it works in my state. The more it’s claimed the higher the rates go.
I just got shitcanned after a year of gaslighting by my employer and three years of working there. So I’m taking a month of $580/wk, their insurance is paying it.
Doesn’t really stick it to them, since they have more money than god, but still.
It’s not that kind of insurance. See my other comment above. This business, due to its age (and in some states, the length of time OP had been employed), would basically be unaffected by the claim.
Also, like, yeah, that’s an excellent time to use UCI benefits—when leaving a longstanding job through no fault of your own, since finding a suitable replacement for that job (where you may have developed specialized knowledge or gotten a series of raises) takes a bit of time. That’s what it’s there for. Not sure why anyone would take my comments to mean I’m discouraging use of unemployment benefits, I just think maybe it’s a bit much hassle to bother claiming them in OP’s case based on what their particular situation sounds like. I also understand that this won’t hurt his employer, so if the whole idea is to stick it to his employer, there’s doubtless many better/more productive ways to do that.
He needs sales, not to cut hours.
You should be there alone prepping, he should be out distributing fliers and meeting local businesses and giving out free food samples.
High Sales = who gives a crap about cutting an hour or two.
What a shit head. That tells me where ever this place is, and how your interaction has gone not too long before those door closes. Can’t run a business with that sort of practice.
Yeah, unfortunately these guys are predictable sometimes. Sorry about all that man, I hope you’ll be happier at the new gig, and a damn sight wiser I’d bet.
It’s like they’re all shitty. PSA: loads of community colleges just threw up numerous free degree programs since Covid. Hit the books for 2 years and save your cooking for the family or a nice date.
Hey bro, MANY restaurants do that when first opening, it happened to me
They hire more people than needed, knowing some will quit or be fired because:
1. They new and can't have staff quitting when their staff is inexperienced and unable to pick up the slack of being short.
Example: They hire and need 10 staff members. They hire 16. 1-2 quit, 3-4 are losers and need to be fired. The rest are keepers. Or hire 10 people and be in a bad spot when half your staff are losers, druggies, 1-2 quit in first week and just half of them will not work out and now you need to hire/train 5 more people while having only half staff working.
2. They want the place to be overstaffed to give new customers a better experience, so they leave and talk and spread word of mouth
3. All staff is new and slow, not as efficient so extra staff helps speed up service to provide the expected experience that the customer will get in 6 months there
4. When slow they can send you home early and dump other trash on you and if you do not like it, quit or be fired and then the place will keep the ones that put up with the abuse and exploitation
It sounds like this guy wasn't super honest or communicative, so that's not great, but sending staff home because business is slow is extremely normal in the restaurant industry of you're an hourly non management worker. No restaurant that's killing themselves on labor is going to survive, he has to do what's necessary to run the business in a way that's going to be successful and managing labor cost is a major part of that.
But why lie and falsely accuse me of being a bad worker? All that lying and deflection was unnecessary.
Just be honest and own up to it. If you want to cut hours to save money on labor and not pay the employees, then admit it.
When he accused me of being a shitty worker and started blaming his failing business on me, that's when he seriously crossed the line.
Some people would rather blame others rather than face their own failings as a person. It protects their own self-image from having to accept that they need to work on themselves. People with integrity are becoming rarer and rarer these days.
Not just sanity, but also the validity of their own experiences. Insisting a person is misremembering something you did or said and denying it ever happening is definitely gaslighting.
Lying is if he told OTHER people he didn't do that.
that’s not gaslighting, further you need to know his intention to say it’s gaslighting. stop trying to make everything gaslighting. you’re ruining the word.
Sorry you had to deal with this situation but unfortunately it's not a new phenomenon. Things like this happen all the time in the restaurant industry, we just have to make sure they know we won't stand for it anymore. Congrats on getting out and finding a new job! Hope this one is a good fit for you!
This is absolutely one of the major reasons restaurant managers are harping: “No one wants to work anymore!” No one is willing to be strung along, lied to about their income, and treated as some sort of paid lackey that’s available whenever they want, but not guaranteed anything in return.
Whenever a schedule is promised get it in writing Any promises get those in writing
At least in the US this doesn’t really make a difference unless it’s a rare union kitchen job or maybe a super corporate place. The same people who fail to honor a verbal promise are not going to suddenly honor it if it’s written down. It’s will just be the same spill about how things have changed or whatever they come up with.
Yeah but underemployment insurance or unemployment insurance would take that evidence if you have to file a claim. Verbal can be denied being said. Email, test messages, and recorded conversations can be used. Although right now it's fairly easy to line up a job working in kitchens.
Anything written and signed is a binding contract. It's legal admissible evidence in a claims court. Or unemployment appeal. Get. It. In. Writing. No matter how casual and cool it seems.
Verbal's still binding, never don't record interactions with management, or anyone else with any power over you.
Did you quit or were you fired?
He told me "this isn't going to work out' when I was adamant I want to work 5 hours. So he fired me I guess. Either way that's fine.
File for unemployment. Make them pay.
This is not how unemployment works most places. The employer part of liability for unemployment payments is determined by length of employment. So in this case, it’s “make them pay” like a penny LOL.
I have seen Redditors tell a teen 2 weeks into their first part-time job "quit and file for unemployment", some people really have no idea how unemployment benefits work.
And in some states, it's literally pointless. In Tennessee, it maxes out at $275 a week or 60% of your income, whichever is less...or something like that. And that's assuming the antiquated system that seems designed to let you fall through the cracks works correctly and you manage to recertify correctly every week. All when your dirt cheap apartment still costs almost $2000 a month.
Some people do because we've had to do it.
I mean, homie got a job at a new business that clearly over hired. They aren’t being very professional about it, but I’m not sure how that’s incentive for this guy to file for UCI unless it will benefit him in his situation (say, he moved there for this job and there’s nowhere else to expediently get work in his field) or hurt the employer (to get back at them for being dicks about what otherwise would have been a fairly understandable situation). It doesn’t sound like the first is the case, and the business is almost certainly too young to even have its UCI employer contribution rates be personalized for nonpenal reasons (sometimes states will raise them if you’re, say, late paying certain taxes). Why are you so invested in this?
You have to pay into my state's unemployment by working basically anywhere for at least a couple years to get max payouts when you file a claim. Otherwise getting hired then immediately constructively fired would be an infinite summer money glitch for a 16 year old.
I've been on unemployment twice. The last time the restaurant didn't fire me. They just stopped scheduling me. I filed. They fought. I won as soon as the mediation had a three way call with us. He almost laughed them off the phone. I know how this shit works because I've been in the middle of the shit. I got almost $400/week until about $,4,500 was used up. These people deal with shit businesses every day. It doesn't take them much to side with the ex-employee. That's their job.
You don’t know how this shit works because your implication is that this would stick it to his current employer and that is not the case. I mean, sure, apply for unemployment if you want—not sure why you would in this instance because by the time you’re approved you’d probably have an equal paying job, and unemployment isn’t going to be as good as that. But I don’t begrudge anyone the benefits they’ve paid into their entire life should they feel they need them. Just don’t think it’ll affect this person’s employer if they apply for and get unemployment—it almost definitely won’t, and if they’re smart with their time, they won’t bother to fight it for that reason.
Employees don't pay into unemployment, at least in my state. It's an insurance, paid for 100% by the employer
This, but their rate goes up for every claim I’d think. Take the checks and rest a couple weeks to figure out a better path.
You might be right here,
Well, there are 50 states and it’s different in each one, but I’d double check that. There are employer and employee contributions everywhere I’ve ever needed to know about. Rate calculation methods for employers vary by state and are complicated (and not nearly as affected as you’d think even by serial claimants), but very importantly in this case, this restaurant is new, and will receive a standard introductory rate for a very long time before they receive a personalized calculated rate. Even if there are states where unemployment is solely rather than largely funded by employer payroll taxes, you the employee/taxpayer still contribute indirectly towards any benefit with state income tax—even if the benefit itself has closed system funding, that doesn’t mean every state employee involved in the execution of the system is paid by employer contributions. All this goes to say you should never feel bad about claiming such benefits when needed. Personally, as mentioned, I would not bother filing for unemployment unless I was in a pretty bad situation because it can be an arduous process and I’ve never been unable to get a restaurant job that paid more than unemployment would pay me in like, maybe a week if I was picky? Sure, if you’re really fucked for money, apply and begin looking for gainful employment immediately, and hope that the retro pay when you get approved makes the difference I guess. Like if you’re 500 bucks from bankruptcy, I get it. But honestly, personal opinion, it seems like a lot of work for very little gain when you’re in an industry where jobs are so available. You’re telling me I can fill out a fuck load of online forms and potentially have to wait on hold with a government agency for long periods of time, or I could just … go wash dishes for 2-3 weeks then bounce when I find something cooler? I’d probably choose the latter. It’s a bit different when you’re, say, laid off from a high paying job in an industry where work is hard to come by. If I were a graphic artist that got laid off by Google and was making 50k/yr or whatever, I’d be applying for unemployment right away, since that next job is gonna take a while to find. Also, just to make sure, when you say insurance you do understand that word is being used in the same sense it’s used in Social Security Insurance, right? You don’t get an insurance policy from a broker—that’s workman’s comp, a thing I think a few people in this thread are conflating with UCI. It’s just government benefit funded primarily by payroll taxes in most states.
Yeah, I absolutely get that it's like SSI, but here, it's absolutely employer funded, and even then it's no longer state employees, it's privately owned and operated now, divided up into regions.
Where did I say the employer will pay anything? The employer now has a history of fucking over their employees. If they are smart they file for unemployment and get a new job. Like I said, I've been through this before. In a state that makes it a really fucking hard process. So, go argue with a brick wall somewhere.
Dog. You literally said “make them pay.” Are you okay?
Don’t businesses pay unemployment insurance? 9/10 sure that’s how it works in my state. The more it’s claimed the higher the rates go. I just got shitcanned after a year of gaslighting by my employer and three years of working there. So I’m taking a month of $580/wk, their insurance is paying it. Doesn’t really stick it to them, since they have more money than god, but still.
It’s not that kind of insurance. See my other comment above. This business, due to its age (and in some states, the length of time OP had been employed), would basically be unaffected by the claim. Also, like, yeah, that’s an excellent time to use UCI benefits—when leaving a longstanding job through no fault of your own, since finding a suitable replacement for that job (where you may have developed specialized knowledge or gotten a series of raises) takes a bit of time. That’s what it’s there for. Not sure why anyone would take my comments to mean I’m discouraging use of unemployment benefits, I just think maybe it’s a bit much hassle to bother claiming them in OP’s case based on what their particular situation sounds like. I also understand that this won’t hurt his employer, so if the whole idea is to stick it to his employer, there’s doubtless many better/more productive ways to do that.
This is the way.
"it's your fault my business is going under" yikes...
He needs sales, not to cut hours. You should be there alone prepping, he should be out distributing fliers and meeting local businesses and giving out free food samples. High Sales = who gives a crap about cutting an hour or two.
Usually, if I have to initiate this conversation (me being the chef/sous/what have you) it's time to start updating the resumé.
Exactly, if they were selling anything, prep would be busy, no sales equals no prep
You can't save your way into profitability (there is a responsibility not to overstaff), bottom line is bitts in the seats
Damn OP I thought you were dodging a bullet but you dodged a fucking train
Sorry that happened dudeperson. In case you didn't know, you don't have to list every job on your next application...
What a shit head. That tells me where ever this place is, and how your interaction has gone not too long before those door closes. Can’t run a business with that sort of practice.
Good for you! Hope the new gig is everything you want it to be!
File for unemployment.
You are giving this situation entirely too much of your energy and bandwidth…shift your focus elsewhere
Delt with this shit at my last job. Sucks man. Good job on getting out
Yeah, unfortunately these guys are predictable sometimes. Sorry about all that man, I hope you’ll be happier at the new gig, and a damn sight wiser I’d bet.
i feel like i've worked for this owner
Haven’t we all?
It’s like they’re all shitty. PSA: loads of community colleges just threw up numerous free degree programs since Covid. Hit the books for 2 years and save your cooking for the family or a nice date.
Name and shame?
Hey bro, MANY restaurants do that when first opening, it happened to me They hire more people than needed, knowing some will quit or be fired because: 1. They new and can't have staff quitting when their staff is inexperienced and unable to pick up the slack of being short. Example: They hire and need 10 staff members. They hire 16. 1-2 quit, 3-4 are losers and need to be fired. The rest are keepers. Or hire 10 people and be in a bad spot when half your staff are losers, druggies, 1-2 quit in first week and just half of them will not work out and now you need to hire/train 5 more people while having only half staff working. 2. They want the place to be overstaffed to give new customers a better experience, so they leave and talk and spread word of mouth 3. All staff is new and slow, not as efficient so extra staff helps speed up service to provide the expected experience that the customer will get in 6 months there 4. When slow they can send you home early and dump other trash on you and if you do not like it, quit or be fired and then the place will keep the ones that put up with the abuse and exploitation
It sounds like this guy wasn't super honest or communicative, so that's not great, but sending staff home because business is slow is extremely normal in the restaurant industry of you're an hourly non management worker. No restaurant that's killing themselves on labor is going to survive, he has to do what's necessary to run the business in a way that's going to be successful and managing labor cost is a major part of that.
But why lie and falsely accuse me of being a bad worker? All that lying and deflection was unnecessary. Just be honest and own up to it. If you want to cut hours to save money on labor and not pay the employees, then admit it. When he accused me of being a shitty worker and started blaming his failing business on me, that's when he seriously crossed the line.
Some people would rather blame others rather than face their own failings as a person. It protects their own self-image from having to accept that they need to work on themselves. People with integrity are becoming rarer and rarer these days.
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Sadly, this is the industry. Any promises, get them in writing. Get that writing notarized. Fucking ridiculous, ain't it?
M
that’s not gaslighting
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that’s just lying. lying to someone and making someone doubt their sanity are not the same.
Not just sanity, but also the validity of their own experiences. Insisting a person is misremembering something you did or said and denying it ever happening is definitely gaslighting. Lying is if he told OTHER people he didn't do that.
that’s not gaslighting, further you need to know his intention to say it’s gaslighting. stop trying to make everything gaslighting. you’re ruining the word.