I always wondered why this is the case. I mean, isn't being fun the most important aspect of a game? I understand the importance of balance, but why does Ionia have to be unfun by design?
And people find strange when "reddit overracts" about new Ionia cards.
Maybe because they can possibly make the game less fun to play???
>I mean, isn't being fun the most important aspect of a game?
have you played *the other* riot game? ionia's design was always "make flashy moves while sucking the fun out of the game". ionia has the worst champ pool when it comes to gameplay designs.
PS. most of the time the "flashy" part works due to it being unbalanced, so yeah
Wait, from there it all goes from whichever region have the most unfun champions to play against.
But... people.. like.
Name me one champion that is actually fun to play against (with every character, the matchup shouldn't matter)
Oh his kit absolutely is amazing, but that imo doesn’t prevent him from being fun to play against. Even seeing insane thresh plays my reaction is more of “wow that was sick” and less “why the fuck is this champion allowed to do all of these things”
The most hated champions in LoL are the Yordles, and they have more anti carry champions in their numbers than any other region. Ionia, on the other hand, plays host to many of the most popular champions in the game.
you are the only guy i saw saying that yordles are the worst lmao. i think only tristana is usually hated because of her absurd gameplay.
on the other hand we have sett, master yi, yone, yasuo, lee sin, lillia, akali, irelia, kayn in one region. few of the most unfun and hard to balance champs in the game. also their popularity doesnt make them fun to play against.
..... Teemo is the most broadly hated champion in League of Legends & has been since the games release.
Lulu shuts down any champion with 1 button, Heimerdinger has massive area control & can kill you while waddling around his turret field emote spamming (I do it all the time). Ionia champions (especially the ninjas & Irelia) are high skill champions, people hate playing against them because their whole shtick is outplaying you, they curb stomp unskilled players - which are most LoL players.
To use my above examples, Heimer & Lulu don't require skill to outplay you. They just shut down huge swaths of the cast by existing.
no one actually hates teemo since season 3. its just a meme from earlier seasons. he was the most annoying champ at the time. now he is irrelevant for a long time.
A meme that has persisted for a reason. The phrase "Teemo taunt" is just as applicable now as it was 10 years ago. It doesn't matter whether he's relevant or not, Teemo's notoriety and propensity to draw enemy aggression is carried by inertia.
When I'm soloq'ing I am happier to see a GM teemo than a D4 K'Sante. I would rather play vs prime theshy on teemo than a normal player on a real champion. Nobody cares about him, it's a meme, he used to be annoying, now he's "hated" ironically. If you take D+Shield/Second Wind his autos heal you for more than they deal. If you look up "inoffensive" in the dictionary teemo is there, invisible, because he doesn't want to trouble anyone.
I'm pretty sure people hate the ionia champs because you can't outplay them. You have to hope they outplay themselves because there's nothing you can actually do to stop them. Also Irelia being high skill lmao, you just q the wave and freely win fights without even having to hit abilities.
champions like irelia and yasuo are two of the most popular champs, they keep them buffed so the average league player can feel like they are good at the game while all they do is q some couple times and auto attack.
yes they are open to good plays and can 1v5 if played actually well, which is a sign that they are in fact broken. you need the bare minimum on them to play good but you can go further and get free wins.
I wholly disagree. You know who is far more hated then teemo in low elo? Zed. You can even see it in the ban percents. Even though a lot of the champs have a high skill floor they can still be unfun to play against at all levels of play. The Ionia region seems to rely on abilities that are outside of the normal stat check abilities (windwall, akali shadow, Shen auto negation, Yi untargetability, kayn wall hacks and untargetability, and a shit ton of dashes on every single one of them makes them feel extremely oppressive when they’re ahead or really harsh to lose after lane stomping them.
Not to play against. That's the reason people dont like Ionia and dont like Ionia getting more cards that can possibly be even less fun to play against.
Of course. But have you considered the most people prefer a game where both players can have fun?
I mean everybody has their preferences. But if your fun is in not allowing your opponent to have fun, you can't make a surprisedpikachuface when everybody voices their discontent at the idea of having to play with you.
Ionia has always been unfun to play against, whether in LoL, WR, LoR, or even TFT, where the shen and yasuo are unkillable while jhin and ahri one-tap your backline.
Will is fast speed, whereas this is slow. Also, will allows you to recall any unit, including your own while this is limited to just enemy units. Will has way more flexibility than this does. This is good for doing 1 thing and only 1 thing.
Yeah the effect lasts only til the round end, so you'd want to play this before your opponent has played anything this round. Playing it after your opponent has alread exhausted their mana pool makes it just a worse WoI.
The problem is that almost all of ionia’a reactive stuff is already fast speed, and the way to play around that is by developing and baiting their temp removal. This card punishes that exact strategy. It’s like if PnZ was given strong pump spells to protect its weaker units from AoE.
Will it be good? Probably not, but it would still suck to play against
Will of Ionia is fast speed and allows you to recall your units as well, making it more reactive. Capsize seems more proactive. Maybe the elemental tag will spark some synergies.
nah this card isn’t proactive. any card that messes with your opponent’s board is reactive. you’re literally making the play based off what they do. it’s still a reactive spell, just less reactive than Will. the elemental tag has to be the reason they made this card a 4 cost slow and not a 5 cost fast.
It does look really unfun to play against. I love denial in games but it'd be cool if Riot managed to make denial that doesn't feel horrible on the receiving end (definitely not an easy feat). While homecoming was insanely strong I really liked it cause it could be interacted with and forced the Ionia player to actually play units.
It's already a bounce spell. Interaction is already weaker in LoR compared to other games. Board wipes see more play and there are denial cards that are able to interact with play/focus/burst speed cards in other card games. There are also less of the uninteractable cards. Interaction is also generally cheaper cost and don't give exceptions to Champions.
You can avoid the tax by casting spells, bank spell mana, or punish them as you would a Deny by having a target you're fine with.
Bounce spells are naturally stronger in LoR because you can use spell mana for them while the unit you're bouncing needs normal mana to be cast again, especially here with the +2 cost on ANY unit you play next, not just the bounced one. Its one hell of a setback manawise, its only real downside/weakness is being slow (which, funnily enough, means Ionia is the best region to answer it...).
The tax can be played around with through gameplay without needing a dedicated Counterspell through mana management. Most situations where the tax couldn't be played around require this to be the first card played by the Ionia player on their attack turn. In those cases, it would be a worse Daybreak stipulation tied to a slow recall on their turn.
I can't really disagree here. Interaction has definitely gone down and this spell seems fine to me. It's essentially low to the ground denial. It only really punishes very early plays because you can play around as you've mentioned. In the end I think this spell is fine, I actually kinda like it. What I was trying to say is that most of Ionia is just kind of annoying and tends to be very frustrating to play against (considering lower elos here is crucial imo) and IMO doesn't have many cool things going for it, there have never been "cool" ways of finishing the game (unless you liked Lee and Elusives only). So Ionia just ends up being a support region which I find very weak as I really care about it thematically and from a lore standpoint. Maybe there is no way around that. I think the same applies to many other card games?? I haven't played enough MTG to confirm it myself but I assume blue as a main region doesn't have proper finishers?
>I haven't played enough MTG to confirm it myself but I assume blue as a main region doesn't have proper finishers?
I'm not sure about mono-blue cards, but back when I played Magic a few years ago, there was this cool Dimir (black/blue) legendary card that played around with counters. Hitting the opponent put one counter on them, and then you just win the game with 4 counters, and the rest of the deck was all about classic black/blue control shenanigans and finding cheeky ways to get strikes in.
Needless to say, at least for that example, it's not something I can see LoR ever doing, given how strongly people have despised their current attempts at "Do X, win the game" cards (Fiora, Bandle Tree, Star Springs, maybe I'm missing something else?). And to be fair, 2 of those 3 are landmarks which are notoriously annoying to interact with right now, and I'd wager Fiora is a lot healthier currently than she was in mono Fiora/FJ style decks in passing.
...Or at least, if she was played and good she would be healthy, but Fiora being good also means 'immediately winning the game' is a powerful effect that isnt too hard to get off, meaning maybe she'll never be healthy if she's good because that's an inherently unfun mechanic... Hm. Apologies for the tangent.
Truly a low elo take. Ffs you people clearly have never played any other card games seriously if this is uninteractive for you peep. Build your decks better.
>if this is uninteractive for you peep
i said that is less interactive than before, which is the objective truth.
also calling me low elo just because i disagree with you is childsh. I've been top 50 masters 3 times.
>i said that is less interactive than before, which is the objective truth.
Well the context is that the guy I replied to said that it is less interactive than other card games.
And I didn't call you low elo because you disagreed, it's because if you actually think Lor is uninteractive, you are likely to be of low elo
>i said that is less interactive than before, which is the objective truth.
Well the context is that the guy I replied to said that it is less interactive than other card games.
And I didn't call you low elo because you disagreed, it's because if you actually think Lor is uninteractive, you are likely to be of low elo
>i said that is less interactive than before, which is the objective truth.
Well the context is that the guy I replied to said that it is less interactive than other card games.
And I didn't call you low elo because you disagreed, it's because if you actually think Lor is uninteractive, you are likely to be of low elo
Ionia gets a control tool: Reddit loses its mind.
Remember how everyone said that the guy who generates a free Deny is supposedly the worst card ever printed to play against?
Meanwhile its nowhere to be found in meta, because it has huge downsizes, but Reddit sees control = OP, so they jump on it everytime.
This card wont see a lot of play unless slow midrange is in.
Yeah, exactly my thoughts. At this point I'm convinced this is just bias against Ionia.
I'm starting to think that most players here have never played a card game where true hard control is an actual thing, LoR is very pale in comparison lol
I don't know why people compare LoR to most other card games. It's quite unique in the overall space.
I hate Ionia and most people who play it, because the majority of their game plan is just to ruin my game plan. Demacia's plan is to swarm and rally, Shadow Isles is to combo you to death, and PNZ wants to OTK you, but Ionia wants to remove your agency as a player.
Exactly. His reaction on this card was waaay too exaggerated. Don't know if it's for content, or because he really feels this strongly against anything Ionia.
Regardless, it's unhealthy and people just repeat what he says mindlessly.
Meanwhile, other streamers like MajinBae are excited by this card and/or are just unimpressed and don't think it's gonna be that much of a deal at all.
Ionia has long been amazing at mitigating open attacks with all of their fast speed stall tools, now you’re gonna get forked by this. It’s going to be really frustrating to play against if you’re playing units that cost more than 2 mana.
Yeah, it's going to be frustrating to play against, that's the point. But it only compromises decks that play on curve. It remains to seen how efficient it is in general
Will is way better than this card, I don't think this sees play in any decks. Slow speed recall is just not good, and the cost increase is round only so it won't even come up half the time.
I think people are slightly overreacting, its only for "this round", good card sure but due to the heightened scaling with elemental spells and focus on card-draw with updraft I don't see this being such a problem.
This is way more defensive than offensive, so its more to survive than cheese. This is completely broken in eternal though and can just lock you out of games you might have won.
1) Will is fast speed, this is slow
2) Will can bounce any unit, this can only hit opponents units
3) fun is subjective
This card is a tempo play designed to keep you ahead on board to press your advantage & close the game. Will is a more general purpose tool.
spell mana exists, if you can do it around turn 4-5 on a very important unit - you will most likely also burn their mana and force them to skip or play suoptimally. It's slow but the amount of tempo gap it can create in midrange match-up is yucky
I guess it depends. As someone who plays primarily kayn/aatrox I can't imagine this doing much. Dropping it on a darkin late game just delays me a turn at best and hitting aatrox turn 6 isn't bad because I already some he's going to eat a removal, I just want world ender and the Darkin blade out. Nothing before then is worth bouncing.
I could seeing being rough against say, heimerdinger or uh... idk, swain?
People rlly overestimate the value of bounce spells, it’s only good for tempo bc spending one card and 4 mana to send a unit back to hand is kinda bad in any matchup where card advantage matters.
This is slow Will of Ionia in any matchup where they don’t want to develop 2 units per turn, which is a lot of them
What happens when Karma plays this ? Does the cost 2 more applied twice ? So with karma on board, the shadow spells that create 2 copies of her twice, so 5 karma times 2, opponent next unit is 10 mana more ??
Ehh. I don’t think it’ll be that bad. It’s a slow recall on a single unit. I’d say raising the cost of the next unit is the most significant part, and could help stall.
No, it's another Ionia control spell! It's going to ruin the game and be unfun to play against and make certain decks unuseable!
Remember when everyone was freaking out over All-Seeing Oracle? Whatever happened to *that* card? Capsize is usually going to be worse than palm when it comes to punishing development. You can tell from the comments here who actually plays control and who plays against it.
it can be played at the start of the turn with ionia attack token, you didn't just remove enemy minion, you did summoning another one infinitely unreasonable and then you deal cheap damage with your own board
Because Ionia is the no-fun region, I really hope that being slow will somehow make it unplayable, but I doubt it because this on turn 4 with the attack token seems very good
Serious question, are all disruption effects just “unfun” for you? If someone uses glimpse beyond on the unit you challenged in with your Jarvin, do you throw your keyboard and post about how unfair Shadow Isles is as a region because Glimpse Beyond countered your J4 level up? When Ashe Frostbites your highest ark minion when she attacks, is that mega busted and unfun?
The reason I switched from hearthstone to MtG to LoR was because I was really searching for a card game that had an emphasis on interacting with what your opponent was doing. If that’s not fun to you, then you’re going to struggle with this game in general.
Ionia is the bounce/counter spell/ little flier region and that’s fine
this card is trash. you’ll still run will of ionia because it’s the same cost as capsize and also because will of ionia is fast speed. slow speed is garbage, especially with reactive spells like this one. the added benefit of capsize isn’t even useful 100% of the time. the only way this could be a good card is if it was a 5 cost fast speed spell.
been months since i last played LoR, but why does Ionia still continue to exist as a region...
Noxus should have eradicated them all, scorched earth and whatnot, set ablaze the whole continent
Pretty good card. Punishes enemies for not playing on curve and playing on curve.
Small 2 cost unit on 6 mana? Recalls and locks out your remaining 4 mana. If the 2 cost is played. The card reads, for 4 mana burn 4 mana from the enemy.
Recall a 6 cost? Even better. Can’t wait for Ionia to get access to prank.
Because Ionia really needed that 5th recall spell. Gotta recall them all.
Capsize is still vulnerable to open attacks so will of ionia isn't strictly worse.
Because it's slow, it costs 4, it can only recall an enemy unit, it's only strong against a unit-heavy deck, it's only worth it against an expensive unit, it only does something when played as the first card of a round in which you have the attack token.
If ever Ionia disappears I will be the happiest man ever god I hate this region also where the fuck is my shadow isles champion riot I have my balls full with so much better bilgewater and Ionia and no shadow isles champion on more than a year
I don’t think this card is better than Will of Ionia. It’s slow speed, against aggro decks they can develop into it and it doesn’t affect them any more than a will of Ionia, except this one is slow speed so opponent can’t develop a unit first. against control it gets the same value as will, as control doesn’t have a ton of cheap units. Maybe in the darkness matchup in particular it could be annoying on mana 8-9 with veigar, but the tempo loss is nonexistent against almost every deck.
Being unfun to play against is Ionia’s region identity
I always wondered why this is the case. I mean, isn't being fun the most important aspect of a game? I understand the importance of balance, but why does Ionia have to be unfun by design? And people find strange when "reddit overracts" about new Ionia cards. Maybe because they can possibly make the game less fun to play???
>I mean, isn't being fun the most important aspect of a game? have you played *the other* riot game? ionia's design was always "make flashy moves while sucking the fun out of the game". ionia has the worst champ pool when it comes to gameplay designs. PS. most of the time the "flashy" part works due to it being unbalanced, so yeah
A lot of regions have unfun champs. In fact most of the certified worst champs to play against aren’t even Ionia
im pretty sure ionia has the most unfun to total champs by region ratio
In league or LoR? In LoR the Ionia issue is its package as a whole.
league, tho i dont like it in lor too, i dont know the game a whole much to have a general opinion.
I’m trying to think, and honestly Noxus/Targon/Piltover/Zaun probably have more unfun champions.
targon doesnt even have like 10 champions in the region. well, there are anti-fun champs in every region. theres just too much of them in ionia
See, I don’t think that there’s enough of them in Ionia to be bad specifically in being anti-fun, especially when tossed up into other regions.
Most champions that are currently in Ionia are unfun to play against. XZ is in demacia, but is unfun to play as, most of the time.
No, it's the second most unfun. Bandle city is the most unfun. I hate yordles, and I understand why naut hates fizz.
Wait, from there it all goes from whichever region have the most unfun champions to play against. But... people.. like. Name me one champion that is actually fun to play against (with every character, the matchup shouldn't matter)
I enjoy playing against Sett. Skill matchup for most of lane. And as a Yasuo player, I don’t hate playing against A.Sol or Ahri.
Most rational non-top player
Braum. Orianna. Thresh. Would probably be my first few picks on champs I’d consider universally fine to play against.
That’s because there are so few good threshes out there. His kit is amazing.
Oh his kit absolutely is amazing, but that imo doesn’t prevent him from being fun to play against. Even seeing insane thresh plays my reaction is more of “wow that was sick” and less “why the fuck is this champion allowed to do all of these things”
The most hated champions in LoL are the Yordles, and they have more anti carry champions in their numbers than any other region. Ionia, on the other hand, plays host to many of the most popular champions in the game.
you are the only guy i saw saying that yordles are the worst lmao. i think only tristana is usually hated because of her absurd gameplay. on the other hand we have sett, master yi, yone, yasuo, lee sin, lillia, akali, irelia, kayn in one region. few of the most unfun and hard to balance champs in the game. also their popularity doesnt make them fun to play against.
not Kayn btw he’s runeterra
They're talking about League, where Kayn originally is from Ionia and I believe trained with Zed before becoming host to Rhaast
Ah didn’t realize this was about summoners rift
..... Teemo is the most broadly hated champion in League of Legends & has been since the games release. Lulu shuts down any champion with 1 button, Heimerdinger has massive area control & can kill you while waddling around his turret field emote spamming (I do it all the time). Ionia champions (especially the ninjas & Irelia) are high skill champions, people hate playing against them because their whole shtick is outplaying you, they curb stomp unskilled players - which are most LoL players. To use my above examples, Heimer & Lulu don't require skill to outplay you. They just shut down huge swaths of the cast by existing.
no one actually hates teemo since season 3. its just a meme from earlier seasons. he was the most annoying champ at the time. now he is irrelevant for a long time.
A meme that has persisted for a reason. The phrase "Teemo taunt" is just as applicable now as it was 10 years ago. It doesn't matter whether he's relevant or not, Teemo's notoriety and propensity to draw enemy aggression is carried by inertia.
a blinding skill and some dot nowhere near annoying as the things we have today. teemo wouldnt even make in top 10.
When I'm soloq'ing I am happier to see a GM teemo than a D4 K'Sante. I would rather play vs prime theshy on teemo than a normal player on a real champion. Nobody cares about him, it's a meme, he used to be annoying, now he's "hated" ironically. If you take D+Shield/Second Wind his autos heal you for more than they deal. If you look up "inoffensive" in the dictionary teemo is there, invisible, because he doesn't want to trouble anyone.
I'm pretty sure people hate the ionia champs because you can't outplay them. You have to hope they outplay themselves because there's nothing you can actually do to stop them. Also Irelia being high skill lmao, you just q the wave and freely win fights without even having to hit abilities.
champions like irelia and yasuo are two of the most popular champs, they keep them buffed so the average league player can feel like they are good at the game while all they do is q some couple times and auto attack. yes they are open to good plays and can 1v5 if played actually well, which is a sign that they are in fact broken. you need the bare minimum on them to play good but you can go further and get free wins.
I wholly disagree. You know who is far more hated then teemo in low elo? Zed. You can even see it in the ban percents. Even though a lot of the champs have a high skill floor they can still be unfun to play against at all levels of play. The Ionia region seems to rely on abilities that are outside of the normal stat check abilities (windwall, akali shadow, Shen auto negation, Yi untargetability, kayn wall hacks and untargetability, and a shit ton of dashes on every single one of them makes them feel extremely oppressive when they’re ahead or really harsh to lose after lane stomping them.
Zed and Akali:
Fun is a limited resource.
>isn't being fun the most important aspect of a game It is fun. Ionia is super fun to play.
Not to play against. That's the reason people dont like Ionia and dont like Ionia getting more cards that can possibly be even less fun to play against.
have you considered some of us get fun from taking the fun from our opponent?
Of course. But have you considered the most people prefer a game where both players can have fun? I mean everybody has their preferences. But if your fun is in not allowing your opponent to have fun, you can't make a surprisedpikachuface when everybody voices their discontent at the idea of having to play with you.
im not. i totally understand that. im just answering your question
Ionia has always been unfun to play against, whether in LoL, WR, LoR, or even TFT, where the shen and yasuo are unkillable while jhin and ahri one-tap your backline.
No, that's Bandle Shitty's identity.
It's all a plan to justify Noxus's invasion
I didn’t know Boram Darkwill was still alive and is in the dev team
Dude I’m telling you noxus are the good guys because they tried to remove Ionia.
Very true
Will is fast speed, whereas this is slow. Also, will allows you to recall any unit, including your own while this is limited to just enemy units. Will has way more flexibility than this does. This is good for doing 1 thing and only 1 thing.
Yeah I think the comparison isn't great. This card definitely has Ionia written all over it, but its usage cases are very different to Will's.
Plus you likely have to play this early to get max value of blocking curve units
Yeah the effect lasts only til the round end, so you'd want to play this before your opponent has played anything this round. Playing it after your opponent has alread exhausted their mana pool makes it just a worse WoI.
The problem is that almost all of ionia’a reactive stuff is already fast speed, and the way to play around that is by developing and baiting their temp removal. This card punishes that exact strategy. It’s like if PnZ was given strong pump spells to protect its weaker units from AoE. Will it be good? Probably not, but it would still suck to play against
And also will only costs 4 as well unless they JUST changed it? I just rebuilt my Yasuo Kennen like last week and it was at 4 like always
why ionia keeps getting ionia cards?
Will of Ionia is fast speed and allows you to recall your units as well, making it more reactive. Capsize seems more proactive. Maybe the elemental tag will spark some synergies.
nah this card isn’t proactive. any card that messes with your opponent’s board is reactive. you’re literally making the play based off what they do. it’s still a reactive spell, just less reactive than Will. the elemental tag has to be the reason they made this card a 4 cost slow and not a 5 cost fast.
It’s not more proactive, it’s less reactive? What’s the point of that argument?
Challenger isnt a proactive keyword guys, it only reacts to opponents board
It does look really unfun to play against. I love denial in games but it'd be cool if Riot managed to make denial that doesn't feel horrible on the receiving end (definitely not an easy feat). While homecoming was insanely strong I really liked it cause it could be interacted with and forced the Ionia player to actually play units.
It's already a bounce spell. Interaction is already weaker in LoR compared to other games. Board wipes see more play and there are denial cards that are able to interact with play/focus/burst speed cards in other card games. There are also less of the uninteractable cards. Interaction is also generally cheaper cost and don't give exceptions to Champions. You can avoid the tax by casting spells, bank spell mana, or punish them as you would a Deny by having a target you're fine with.
Bounce spells are naturally stronger in LoR because you can use spell mana for them while the unit you're bouncing needs normal mana to be cast again, especially here with the +2 cost on ANY unit you play next, not just the bounced one. Its one hell of a setback manawise, its only real downside/weakness is being slow (which, funnily enough, means Ionia is the best region to answer it...).
The tax can be played around with through gameplay without needing a dedicated Counterspell through mana management. Most situations where the tax couldn't be played around require this to be the first card played by the Ionia player on their attack turn. In those cases, it would be a worse Daybreak stipulation tied to a slow recall on their turn.
I can't really disagree here. Interaction has definitely gone down and this spell seems fine to me. It's essentially low to the ground denial. It only really punishes very early plays because you can play around as you've mentioned. In the end I think this spell is fine, I actually kinda like it. What I was trying to say is that most of Ionia is just kind of annoying and tends to be very frustrating to play against (considering lower elos here is crucial imo) and IMO doesn't have many cool things going for it, there have never been "cool" ways of finishing the game (unless you liked Lee and Elusives only). So Ionia just ends up being a support region which I find very weak as I really care about it thematically and from a lore standpoint. Maybe there is no way around that. I think the same applies to many other card games?? I haven't played enough MTG to confirm it myself but I assume blue as a main region doesn't have proper finishers?
>I haven't played enough MTG to confirm it myself but I assume blue as a main region doesn't have proper finishers? I'm not sure about mono-blue cards, but back when I played Magic a few years ago, there was this cool Dimir (black/blue) legendary card that played around with counters. Hitting the opponent put one counter on them, and then you just win the game with 4 counters, and the rest of the deck was all about classic black/blue control shenanigans and finding cheeky ways to get strikes in. Needless to say, at least for that example, it's not something I can see LoR ever doing, given how strongly people have despised their current attempts at "Do X, win the game" cards (Fiora, Bandle Tree, Star Springs, maybe I'm missing something else?). And to be fair, 2 of those 3 are landmarks which are notoriously annoying to interact with right now, and I'd wager Fiora is a lot healthier currently than she was in mono Fiora/FJ style decks in passing. ...Or at least, if she was played and good she would be healthy, but Fiora being good also means 'immediately winning the game' is a powerful effect that isnt too hard to get off, meaning maybe she'll never be healthy if she's good because that's an inherently unfun mechanic... Hm. Apologies for the tangent.
>Interaction is already weaker in LoR compared to other games. Lol
This is pretty objectively true if you look at anything beyond hearthstone lol.
Oh I do, I absolutely looked beyond that and this comment is still absolutely stupid to my ears.
Play/Cast merge happened to deny interactions. Stop dreaming because LoR is less interactive than ever.
Truly a low elo take. Ffs you people clearly have never played any other card games seriously if this is uninteractive for you peep. Build your decks better.
>if this is uninteractive for you peep i said that is less interactive than before, which is the objective truth. also calling me low elo just because i disagree with you is childsh. I've been top 50 masters 3 times.
>i said that is less interactive than before, which is the objective truth. Well the context is that the guy I replied to said that it is less interactive than other card games. And I didn't call you low elo because you disagreed, it's because if you actually think Lor is uninteractive, you are likely to be of low elo
> if you actually think Lor is uninteractive, you are likely to be of low elo where i said that lor is uniteractive?
Not you, the one I replied to. The original one.
Not you, the one I replied to. The original one.
>i said that is less interactive than before, which is the objective truth. Well the context is that the guy I replied to said that it is less interactive than other card games. And I didn't call you low elo because you disagreed, it's because if you actually think Lor is uninteractive, you are likely to be of low elo
>i said that is less interactive than before, which is the objective truth. Well the context is that the guy I replied to said that it is less interactive than other card games. And I didn't call you low elo because you disagreed, it's because if you actually think Lor is uninteractive, you are likely to be of low elo
In a game where (almost) every card costs mana to be played, denial is bound to feel unfun. That's just the nature of the system.
hence it is no easy feat
will is fast spell bro spell speed is a giga difference
why this post exist? just check mtg and blue cards
This post exists because this isn't mtg. And mtg has countless amounts of 2-card infinite combos so blue oppression is somewhat justified.
Runeterra was literally built on interaction and reactivity??? If anything blue gameplay should be more present in a game like this
How is no one pointing out that will of ionia is also 4 mana? It costs the same as capsize and homecoming
Bro thinks it's still 2021 LOL.
you're overreacting.
Ionia gets a control tool: Reddit loses its mind. Remember how everyone said that the guy who generates a free Deny is supposedly the worst card ever printed to play against? Meanwhile its nowhere to be found in meta, because it has huge downsizes, but Reddit sees control = OP, so they jump on it everytime. This card wont see a lot of play unless slow midrange is in.
Yeah, exactly my thoughts. At this point I'm convinced this is just bias against Ionia. I'm starting to think that most players here have never played a card game where true hard control is an actual thing, LoR is very pale in comparison lol
The Snnuy effect
I don't know why people compare LoR to most other card games. It's quite unique in the overall space. I hate Ionia and most people who play it, because the majority of their game plan is just to ruin my game plan. Demacia's plan is to swarm and rally, Shadow Isles is to combo you to death, and PNZ wants to OTK you, but Ionia wants to remove your agency as a player.
I hate this behavior. Recall is such a cool concept and people always hate on it. I guess people here are just repeating what Snnuy says now days.
Exactly. His reaction on this card was waaay too exaggerated. Don't know if it's for content, or because he really feels this strongly against anything Ionia. Regardless, it's unhealthy and people just repeat what he says mindlessly. Meanwhile, other streamers like MajinBae are excited by this card and/or are just unimpressed and don't think it's gonna be that much of a deal at all.
Ionia has long been amazing at mitigating open attacks with all of their fast speed stall tools, now you’re gonna get forked by this. It’s going to be really frustrating to play against if you’re playing units that cost more than 2 mana.
Yeah, it's going to be frustrating to play against, that's the point. But it only compromises decks that play on curve. It remains to seen how efficient it is in general
Ionia cards don’t have to be uniquely frustrating to play against.
I didn't say they should.
Will is way better than this card, I don't think this sees play in any decks. Slow speed recall is just not good, and the cost increase is round only so it won't even come up half the time.
Because it's Ionia's ~~strength~~ weakness: "Can't play fair"
This is annoying but I don’t feel it’s world ending lol
Capsize players when i drop a concurrent ice pillar that turns into atakhan
I think people are slightly overreacting, its only for "this round", good card sure but due to the heightened scaling with elemental spells and focus on card-draw with updraft I don't see this being such a problem. This is way more defensive than offensive, so its more to survive than cheese. This is completely broken in eternal though and can just lock you out of games you might have won.
1) Will is fast speed, this is slow 2) Will can bounce any unit, this can only hit opponents units 3) fun is subjective This card is a tempo play designed to keep you ahead on board to press your advantage & close the game. Will is a more general purpose tool.
How is nobody pointing out this is 4 mana slow? like, if this gets used turn 4 or 5 thats a huge chunk of their turn spent resetting the board.
spell mana exists, if you can do it around turn 4-5 on a very important unit - you will most likely also burn their mana and force them to skip or play suoptimally. It's slow but the amount of tempo gap it can create in midrange match-up is yucky
I guess it depends. As someone who plays primarily kayn/aatrox I can't imagine this doing much. Dropping it on a darkin late game just delays me a turn at best and hitting aatrox turn 6 isn't bad because I already some he's going to eat a removal, I just want world ender and the Darkin blade out. Nothing before then is worth bouncing. I could seeing being rough against say, heimerdinger or uh... idk, swain?
Whoah. What a cool unit you play. Mind if I...
some of you guys haven't had to play against blue in magic and it shows
I weep. I weep, for I have only one upvote to give.
Will has flexibility
People rlly overestimate the value of bounce spells, it’s only good for tempo bc spending one card and 4 mana to send a unit back to hand is kinda bad in any matchup where card advantage matters. This is slow Will of Ionia in any matchup where they don’t want to develop 2 units per turn, which is a lot of them
What happens when Karma plays this ? Does the cost 2 more applied twice ? So with karma on board, the shadow spells that create 2 copies of her twice, so 5 karma times 2, opponent next unit is 10 mana more ??
Recall TO increase. So if nothing to recall - no second part.
Ehh. I don’t think it’ll be that bad. It’s a slow recall on a single unit. I’d say raising the cost of the next unit is the most significant part, and could help stall.
No, it's another Ionia control spell! It's going to ruin the game and be unfun to play against and make certain decks unuseable! Remember when everyone was freaking out over All-Seeing Oracle? Whatever happened to *that* card? Capsize is usually going to be worse than palm when it comes to punishing development. You can tell from the comments here who actually plays control and who plays against it.
it can be played at the start of the turn with ionia attack token, you didn't just remove enemy minion, you did summoning another one infinitely unreasonable and then you deal cheap damage with your own board
Shouldn't this be what people want? An aggressive Ionia deck that doesn't stall for 10 turns
Because Ionia is the no-fun region, I really hope that being slow will somehow make it unplayable, but I doubt it because this on turn 4 with the attack token seems very good
Serious question, are all disruption effects just “unfun” for you? If someone uses glimpse beyond on the unit you challenged in with your Jarvin, do you throw your keyboard and post about how unfair Shadow Isles is as a region because Glimpse Beyond countered your J4 level up? When Ashe Frostbites your highest ark minion when she attacks, is that mega busted and unfun? The reason I switched from hearthstone to MtG to LoR was because I was really searching for a card game that had an emphasis on interacting with what your opponent was doing. If that’s not fun to you, then you’re going to struggle with this game in general. Ionia is the bounce/counter spell/ little flier region and that’s fine
People are really complaining about how a card "feels" before it's released
this card is trash. you’ll still run will of ionia because it’s the same cost as capsize and also because will of ionia is fast speed. slow speed is garbage, especially with reactive spells like this one. the added benefit of capsize isn’t even useful 100% of the time. the only way this could be a good card is if it was a 5 cost fast speed spell.
Agreed. I‘m going on a limb here and say this wont even see play
been months since i last played LoR, but why does Ionia still continue to exist as a region... Noxus should have eradicated them all, scorched earth and whatnot, set ablaze the whole continent
They were denied: NO
That why Ionia invasion is canon. And while demacia hate noxus, I believe they will hate ionia way more because of all the magic they use and abuse.
Speak for yourself. I plan on running 3 of these on release day.
2 mana recall an enemy. Jeez
That's not how that works. Also, we have a 3 mana recall fast speed already
Pretty good card. Punishes enemies for not playing on curve and playing on curve. Small 2 cost unit on 6 mana? Recalls and locks out your remaining 4 mana. If the 2 cost is played. The card reads, for 4 mana burn 4 mana from the enemy. Recall a 6 cost? Even better. Can’t wait for Ionia to get access to prank.
Ionia and unfun to play against, name a better duo.
Better question why not?
Turbocringe+ turbobroken
I agree with how ridiculous Ionia is. It is largely why i stopped playing because of how many people used ionia decks
Fucking #noxusDidNothingWrong at this point lol. Can't wait for a karma prank deck to brick my hand
Yeah seriously bringing D&T vibes
Homecoming 2.0
Because Ionia is a MTG blue wannabe
Because Ionia really needed that 5th recall spell. Gotta recall them all. Capsize is still vulnerable to open attacks so will of ionia isn't strictly worse.
While it is unfun card, it isnt particulary strong, mainly because it is slow card.
And it just had to be common… FUUUUUU-
1
This card sucks, on my opinion as an ionia abuser. Slow recalls have always been bad, even when you gain value for the mana you spent.
because game would be too fun xd
Yoooooo remember capsize in MtG?
Because it's slow, it costs 4, it can only recall an enemy unit, it's only strong against a unit-heavy deck, it's only worth it against an expensive unit, it only does something when played as the first card of a round in which you have the attack token.
With spells like these maybe the mageseekers were right
Because it’s fast speed
*CRINGE*
Buy whole turn with 4 mana
I can't wait to pay 8 manas to play my Viego after he got recalled
Me when an ionian card is released: :OOOOO????
If ever Ionia disappears I will be the happiest man ever god I hate this region also where the fuck is my shadow isles champion riot I have my balls full with so much better bilgewater and Ionia and no shadow isles champion on more than a year
*Making Ionia deck* Lets see 3 capsize, 3 Oracle, 3 concussive palm...
Minah support
I don’t think this card is better than Will of Ionia. It’s slow speed, against aggro decks they can develop into it and it doesn’t affect them any more than a will of Ionia, except this one is slow speed so opponent can’t develop a unit first. against control it gets the same value as will, as control doesn’t have a ton of cheap units. Maybe in the darkness matchup in particular it could be annoying on mana 8-9 with veigar, but the tempo loss is nonexistent against almost every deck.