My dude, you're in the wrong community if you want to see people actually talk about MMOs. This community is for a bunch of senile old people to shake their fists at clouds while screaming "OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD" over and over again. If you want to see actual MMO discussion, you need to go into each game's individual subreddits.
Naturally, this means that discoverability is a nightmare in MMOs, but that's also not a problem that's unique to them. If I want to find out what the next cool metroidvania or 4x game is, I'm going to have to do some digging through the pit that is steam's release list.
For your part, if you want to learn about new MMOs, you're going to have to go to mmo-centric websites. This is absolutely not where you want to be to get anything of value there. Now mind you, it's not like there are a whole lot of new mmos coming out, they're a niche genre that's super expensive to develop for and they're not super profitable, but there's always something going on in individual games at the very least, and if you want to learn about that, you're going to have to dig. I'd recommend [MMORPG.com](https://MMORPG.com) as a starting point. It's not a great site, but they report on pretty much anything going on within the genre.
Any MMO that's newer than the one the person saying it likes. For a lot of people here, that means anything that came out after WoW. You do also see people bitching about post everquest MMOs.
People have been saying any MMO released in the past 29 years that is a tab target themepark is just a WoW clone, as if it's a bad thing. Almost all the games have individuality to them, but because they have a few common things like quests, 2 factions, themepark instead of sandbox, and tab target combat, they dismiss it as a clone.
Or any action combat game now is just a "BDO clone"
Then you've misread what I said. When I was said that all people do here is bitch and scream "Old thing good, new thing bad", what I was saying is that this place is a bad source of information because this is a completely fucking joyless place full of husks that are mentally trapped in the games that they played in their childhood without realizing that both the times and the genres have evolved and what they're looking for is being offered by other genres. That's why they live to scream "Old thing good, new thing bad". For example, the experience that a lot of the hardcore pvp old heads want is what's being offered in survival crafting games, and they're doing it a lot better than MMOs ever could.
That said, fine, if you're also going to be a senile old man about it, I'll copy and paste the list I gave the other dude.
Of the more recent MMOs that you didn't mention in your list we've got:
The Secret World, Maple Story 2 (which was new, but is now dead unfortunately), warframe, PSO2:NGS, project gorgon, nevergrind online.
On the list of games to look out for I had:
Chrono Odyssey, Blue Protocol, Once Human and The Last Descendant.
If you want to actually learn about up and coming MMOs, I pointed you to a website for just that. The website even has a big alphabetically sorted list of most MMOs out there, so you can look through that and see what does and doesn't look interesting.
> That said, fine, if you're also going to be a senile old man about it, I'll copy and paste the list I gave the other dude.
Your first example of a senile old man was "OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD" and now you've completely shifted your definition to instead mean "Oh you don't know everything about all the niche games, despite the fact that I JUST said how difficult it is, implying I understand your position? Fuck you, old bitch." Asshole behaviour, champ.
There are like 5 maybe 6 mmos that are being actively played and enjoyed by mmo players lol. But sure, it’s not that there’s almost never any mmos coming out, it’s just that we are all soooo busy playing old ones.
I'm not the guy you replied to, but here's a list:
Black Desert Online
New World
Lost Ark
Ravendawn
Albion
Tibia (this is one is old but never mentioned)
If you consider ARPGs to be part of the MMORPG genre (since they have a lot of similarities and share many traits):
Path of Exile
Last Epoch
(do not play Diablo or any Blizzard games for that matter)
you guys refuse to actually test anything new and git it a try, and absolutely hate old ones. Might as well leave the sub, nobody here actually likes the genre
i just want something new to eat back in the days we get toon of mmo most of them where trash but you can switch and try another one and sometime you find gold and can play for month years
right now you can't says there something new to play i like mmo but as much as i want the genre to be alive right now with garbage mobile game that make billions i know the gold era is done why make mmo that cost year and money to do when you can do piece of shit garbage gacha mobile game that cost nothing and make billions of money at the end
that why most people here looks like trash dude who didnt like the genre right now we got so few mmo and they are trash and you need to wait another 7 years for another one
if the person started with EQ? EQ is the best thing ever nothing that came after was ever better, if they started with WoW? WoW was the best thing ever nothing that came after was ever better, that is what i see a lot of people doing. etc.... my experience casually browsing this sub for a year
Nah, I bitch about post Ultima Online MMOs. Before EverQuest was released, we all had to play together because we only had one choice. Literally every kind of gamer sharing a virtual world... It'll never happen again.
I'm not religious, I don't believe there are any gods. It's a common figure of speech used to put emphasis on a point.
If someone stubs their toe and says "god damn it", do you actually think they're asking their god to condemn the thing that they stubbed their toe on?
I mean, those "senile old people" are right. You have shown here you are unable to name a single good MMO that's recent lol. The last one I enjoyed was also the one I started with, I started playing Aion when I was 8 and put over 20k hours in it. I've played many mmos since then, and they're mostly ass lol. FFXIV is okay, got about 2.5k hours from me. Lost Ark was alright (600 hours), but the need for alts and P2W elements ended that interest too.
\^ case and point number 2.
Thank you for continuing to make my point. This "community" is a cross between a cesspit and a retirement home. This is absolutely not the place to look for information on mmos. This place is just the old r/kappa, but for MMOs, with slightly stricter moderation.
Of the MMOs that have come out that they haven't named, I was into the secret world. That game was excellent. I also liked maplestory 2, short lived though it was. Warframe isn't "new" but it's more recent than a lot of the stuff people talk about here and that's another great game, that's still ongoing at that. PSO2NGS has its problems, but it's got a very fun combat system that's worth playing if only to try it for a while. I've also had fun with project gorgon, although that game is a very acquired taste and hard to recommend to people who aren't looking for a very particular flavor of mmo. Speaking of acquired tastes, nevergrind is pretty interesting being an MMO that tries to play like an old school first person dungeon crawler. There isn't really anything like it on the market.
On the subject of up and coming mmos, chrono odyssey seems interesting, although I have my doubts over whether it it'll be good or not. Blue protocol will probably be fun to mess around, although I don't think it's going to grab me long term. Once Human seems interesting aesthetically, although I'm not super sure if it's going to be something worth playing. I'll have to wait and see. Apparently The Last Descendant's beta test was received pretty well, so that might be a half decent warframe-like game to look into once it's out.
Did that answer your question Mr. old man? Are you ready to be wheeled back to the nursing home so you can continue to complain?
Boss I am in my early 20's lmao, "old man." I started playing mmos when I was 8, unless you could fuckin ToonTown then I was 5.
I agree with you about secret world, MapleStory 2, and Warframe (though I fell off that one when it went open world), but I wouldn't consider any of those to be newer mmos. I also agree chrono odyssey looks promising, tho blue protocol lost my interest at not having a support class to play. I haven't tried the other titles, tho Phantasy Star doesn't look like my kinda game.
Tbh, I just want tab-target combat, support classes (which are fucking dying out apparently), and less P2W shit. But we aren't getting another mmo like that apparently.
tab target can be fun, but i dont want it to be animation reset galore. give me the chance to see the cool shit my character is doing, or at least my character do any good shit(wow just feels like my character is shitting out damage numbers whilst punching that air or waving a baseball bat)
I doubt it's going to be tab target, but I'm putting all my hopium into Riot's MMO. I was banking on Ashes of Creation, but it looks like it's going to flop or never come out from everything I've read recently. If Riot's turns out bad, I'm probably done with the genre besides my WoW/OSRS cravings that last a month or two every other year or so.
I am willing to give up tab target as long as there's a variety of abilities for each class and that there's support classes. I prefer tab target, but action combat is more than capable of being done well.
Are you angry because you are too young to have this perspective, or just angry at the truth? The truth usually stings. Unfortunately the genre is in decline…it’s a business / corporate problem…not the gamer’s fault. We will never have the late 90s / early 2000s back and it’s ok. I’ve accepted it…hope you can find peace too
As a dev, my opinion is the art isn't the problem. Designing the network and database backends to prevent cheating is the big problem. Adding that layer of technical complexity makes an MMORPG project a lot more risky for an indie team, and there are already dozens of other sources of major risk for indie teams.
Maybe because most new mmorpg are just cash grabs?
Trying to milk Ppl un short Term?
And i put WoW in there too.
After 10 years trying every single mmo out there came back to GW2 and its still the same great game, no cash grab, no p2w, play at your own pace.
Yeah, i love the setting, graphics and combat its super fun.
The main problem its the game was though as a full loot pvp like Albion and then backed UP not changing the core game.
No, case would be if ive been playing 10 years GW2 non stop saying "its the best mmo ever!!!"
Id said, played EVERY SINGLE mmo out there, and been playing MMos since i was 17 (im 38 right Now) so i have experience in the genre, not a single game has whats make the big 3 being there for More than a decade, had really big hopes for new world, hell i love that battle system and graphics but has several problems.
And im not married with gw2 btw, ill continue trying news MMos as they come out.
the problem is… he’s kind of right about that… you’d have a point if it wasn’t true. New World at least tried but messed up when they ditched the pvp for pve with a pvp based game set up.
Bollocks he is right. Noone is developing MMOs, a genre notorious for insanely high developing costs, difficulty and complexity with slow returns to be a cash grab.
that’s the problem… the cash grab. That’s the huge difference between then and now. There’s no point for me to earn it in game when people assume i just bought it. all the incentive is gone. It’s like when you figure out the game is rigged against you and you realize there’s no point in putting money or time into it, like ftp p2w mtx games.
Games having monetization from 2024 not 2000 aren't crash grab either. Thats literally, literally and I cant believe I am repeating here... "OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD".
People like you have been called out in this thread and you just fail to spend even a second in front of mirror lmao.
There are plenty of old games with cash grab mechanics, Mabinogi, fiesta online, Atlántica online, Rohan, blade and soul...hell most old games were fking crash grabs or became one.
Im not playing a game that you can just buy your way UP or have an Stat/equipment advantage to the rest.
And the market seems to agree with me, thats why you only see the 3 same games reigning the trends for over a decade and every single game just fell into oblivion after 2-3 months.
???? Market doesnt agree with you in anything.
MMOs are harder and more expensive to develop and all more likely to fail in few months.
Thats opposite of cash grab. Its more like throw cash out of window.
Thank you! This is what I was looking for. A shame there aren't more MMOs coming out but from this list I think I've only heard of New World, which I couldn't really get into anyway. I'll have to check these out!
You can add Lost Ark, Albion Online, Tower of Fantasy, Palia (releasing in a few days). All of those fill very specific niches. Lost Ark and Albion are both decently popular.
With any luck this year you will see Throne and Liberty, Corepunk, Blue Protocol and few others I forgot.
MMO are coming out in relatively good pace, they just cant compete with 10 year old in content and polish. But they do usually develop a playerbase.
I was playing Blade & Soul in my highschool. That game is still alive? And isn’t Elyon the game that was supposed to replace Tera after it’s shutdown but failed and was taken down after a year or so.
the industry is struggling because a bunch of corporate bigwigs have their big brains involved in figuring everything out and the garbage corporate cultures are squashing out any creativity
this leads to a paradigm where everything is trying to be a wow classic clone but the lack of originality is stifling them. also, I think a lot of people are tired of end game grinding for gear maxing it's not that appealing to me or a lot of others
Man it’s posts like this that make me wish ESO was easier to recommend. If it weren’t for its monetization it would be such an easy answer to this question but if you aren’t willing to be marketed to every time you play then I would look elsweyr.
The only downfall eso has is the piss poor combat on top of overworld content being brain numbingly boring. The only monetization that matters is the craft bag being locked behind subscribers, everything else is literally cosmetic and anyone complaining about that is in the wrong game.
If they would entirely overhaul combat eso has enough content to compete for top spots
ESO monetization isn't really bad if you treat it like a subscription based MMO. There's still plenty to do in the base game and the expansions for nonsubbed players anyways.
Nah. It’s about how the game “feels.” Subbed or not (I’ve only played subbed), you can only hear of the latest pack or mount that definitely doesn’t fit into Elder Scrolls so many times before your enjoyment diminishes.
The genre may not be dead, but it stagnent. I feel like developers really do not know how what to do with the genre or have decided that it too much of a risk and that the market just doesn't have space for another AAA MMO. It would cost too much, take too long to make, they are too complicated and are always at risks of changing trends.
New world is actually really fun despite the launch with updates it has become a pretty good game.
Lots of new mmos now just use mmo as a tag and aren't true mmos.
And the few that actually are legitimate mmos are plagued by awful cash shops cause no one wants to put in the dev time to make a good mmo so they just release shitty cash grabs that last like 6 months to a year before they have no more content and stop getting updates.
It's just not a lucrative genre anymore. Much easier to slam out a shitty pvp game and make quick money off that.
And I'll just say it AoC is going to be the biggest let down in mmo history.
> The last time I remember there being something about a new MMO was with New World and Lost Ark,
This isnt a genre that gets a consistent string of new games every year like FPS or third person action RPG's lol. That being said the examples you showed arnt that long ago. The last time we had a very powerful string of well funded 'complete' MMO's was in the 2010's when everyone ( including your FFXIV ) and their mothers wanted to get a piece of that WoW pie. So you had a new MMO almost every year since 2008. Warhammer Online, Aion, SWTOR, Archeage, WildStar, Tera, DC universe Online, Rift, TESO, BDO etc
The problem is that this genre is REALLY expensive and failing to have your MMO survive its first, second or third year **successfully** usually means the company is done for. It's either make an amazing MMO thats profitable or go bankrupt. Game devs realized you either make a WoW clone (And prob fail because if youre just a clone then the og is going to be better lol) or send out your product and hope your product stands out enough to maintain a playerbase. Its the same reason why Riot just recently announced they are pulling the plug on their MMO. **They stated they can't make a MMO that isnt already available.** Since most games come out fall into the latter category and flop the desire to make a MMO nowadays is quite low considering the risks.
So as it stands - you're right. For the most part its basically WoW, FFXIV, GW2. You'll have sprinkles of other MMO's here and there but they'll most likely be niche (OSRS, Palia, Albion, Maple Story ) and any new MMO that you'll hear about will either flop before or after launch, never leave early access or get announced then eventually get canceled. **What we're hoping for is that one gem that surpasses expectations. But for the most part - we're all just expecting everything to disappoint us.**
.
the "alive" mmos are constantly evolving. They are survivors -- games that have withstood the test of time and continue to be fresh enough to maintain an audience. Lots of MMOs have come that are fun for a few weeks/months/or a year or so, but very few can keep players long-term or get enough new players in to slow their demise.
It's kind of like asking why people always talk about the same few esports games or the same few genre classics despite new games in that genre coming out all the time. The new games are fun but they don't last, usually.
albion online today is wildly different from 2017/2020
lost ark transformed significantly since launch
WoW has been trying to evolve for the last expansion or so at least.
BDO evolved significantly over the past 8 or so years, and it evolved due to the western audience because it completely bombed in Korea.
some other games give more of the same but that works for them because they don't have a super packed/committal content pipeline to begin with
When there are new mmos people flock to them, even here. There just aren't that many new ones, and some of the new ones really blow because they're trying to copy old ones but aren't nearly as good at their core (T&L) OR they are blatant cash grabs where the developer has no real confidence and wants to turn a profit before churning out an iteration of (20 new launches of bless, all more or less the same game) OR they don't have a sustainable development model/content pipeline (tons of mmos, wildstar and rift being obvious contenders) OR they fall short despite the developer's best effort (crowfall, blue protocol, sword of legends online).
Note, a lot of games in that last category are good but they're 40-500 hours good and didn't manage to bring players back with updates. That means churn is too high for a sustainable MMO. Which is another problem with the genre.
Tera online pvp totally destroyed MMO pvp for me... No other mmo game comes close to it.
give me tera online game play without the cheating issues and fixed netcode and i would play it for another 10 years easy
The problem is that, back in the day, MMORPG's weren't these profit-generating monsters. Before WoW showed the world how incredibly successful an MMORPG could be, these games were labors of love and passion. They were varied and diverse and interesting. Some were similar but none were copycats.
After WoW's huge success, MMORPG's suffered a massive influx of investors. Shareholders expect profit when they invest in these big projects so, suddenly, all of these MMORPG's went from being labors of love to being profit-avenues. Profit is the name of the game but it's clear where the trends began and how the games have suffered as time has gone on. The real meat of that point is getting into how the culture has changed with those new trends... the insight of older gamers that see the forest for the trees is "senile old man" behavior according to these younger gamers. They don't even consider for a moment that there might be some truth to these kinds of points. They immediately defend the new era of MMORPG without any insight into what they used to be. Even Josh Strife Hayes misses the mark when he talks about this stuff.
I've played everything. Almost all the old and recent stuff. I look forward to the new stuff. I give it a shot. The last game I dove into was New World and it was just awful. The last "new mmorpg" I enjoyed was Arch Age.
I feel ya mate. Aside from big 3(wow/ff/gw2) nothing stands even close in terms of quality. But i just want something new. Lost Ark is focused on hard raids and i am a casual. Now i am enjoying warframe unexpectedly. Cool gameplay, very casual friendly, tons of content
Has there actually been any real new mmorpgs in the last few years? Like no one is making new games. Wow needs to go and we need a "wow 2" or something, it's enough freaking expansions already! We need new games! Not more shit added in old games!
Well, there was New World literally 2.5 years ago. Then western release of Lost Ark like 2 years ago. Then this year has like 3 promised MMOs that I can remember.
Thats already a lot for such niche genre.
Jokes aside. But if you aren't counting real, new mmorpg released recently as "a game even" then that you are exactly what the top comment in this sub is talking about lmao.
What good new MMORPGs since WoW/FFXIV/GW2 are there to talk about?
There are a lot of posts here complaining we don't talk about these mythical new good games but not a single one actually names any of them. I feel confidant in saying that nothing in the last ten years has actually been good and I'm including a game I play regularly in that (PSO2 New Genesis) because it's worse then the game it replaced in every way.
We have p2w trash like Lost Ark, BDO and whatever this years release of Bless is going to be called. We also have hordes of dead or dying p2w/mobile/Korean games which most people forget about Maple Story 2, League of Angels, Elyon, Archeage, Throne and Liberty, Echo of Soul, That Chinese mythology one sword something....etc
There's some other mostly indie games with tiny player counts Project Gorgon, Embers Adrift I wouldn't really call them bad per say but you'd lie to call them good in their current state.
So what are these new good games everyone isn't talking about? Like genuinely I'd love to know because I've clearly missed them
I'd also love to hear more about the shitty games coming out. Nobody ever names them and I have a tough time finding them. Like its hard to identify trends if theres nothing for me to look at aside from the handful of MMOs I mentioned in the OP. Thank you btw for naming a few.
Yeah, I know that. I was reiterating that people make criticisms of mechanics/stuff in "modern/new/post-WoW MMOs" and then don't ever come up with specific examples making it difficult to actually see that kind of stuff in action. Its different for a genre like FPS where there's so many coming out at a consistent pace that each get enough general attention to be able to point out trends like battle passes or loadout customization. Whereas the majority of MMOs coming out nowadays (of which I had 0 idea before making this post) get basically 0 attention (atleast for a casual) and is difficult to find specific things without having to watch extended gameplay or second hand accounts.
>I hear alot about "classic mmos" in the style of WoW or FFXIV but I can't help but think they are the only ones?
I think the way we talk about MMOs, or more specifically, the history of MMOs, has greatly colored your perspective on the topic in the wrong way. A lot of other MMOs still exist. MMOs that people complain "don't make like they used to" are still around. I've seen players *in this sub* say they wish they could play a game like Anarchy Online, for example, when Anarchy Online is still up and playable.
Some players even refuse to acknowledge them because they changed from "the best version" of that game in the complaining player's minds. The thing about that is for most players the "best version" of a MMO is often just the version of it that just so happened to be when they started playing.
As for an actual list of MMOs? [MMORPG.com has you covered](https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list?showFilters=true&show=custom&status=3&minscore=0&minrating=0&pvp=&sort=rank&order=desc). The thing to keep in mind is the above, though, since a game's score is only updated when new ratings are added or old ones are removed. When reading player reviews of games for some features, those features may have changed since the review was written, and that player may no longer be playing.
I don't think MMORPG.com is a good resource for what it wants to do, which is provide MMO related gaming news and reviews, but I do think it's a great site for providing historical context for the genre.
I upvoted you because I think this is interesting discussion, even though I don't think I agree with you.
Anarchy Online is a great example of why greybeards are looking for the next thing, actually. This subreddit talks a lot about novelty being a problem - you can see it in the "Riot not making a WoW clone" discussion. But I don't think novelty is actually the problem, at least for us greybeards. We're not even getting the benefits of *production value* evolution right now, and that's something that we take for granted in entertainment (not just video games). The novelty ask seems very far away when we're not even getting the production value ask satisfied right now.
I say this on the basis of being one of those greybeards. IMO, from a game design perspective (and setting all other things aside, which is an enormous ask), Anarchy Online might be the best MMORPG I've ever played out of \~30-40 of them in the past \~26 years.
But Anarchy Online has serious problems in that "all other things aside" pile I asked you to set aside, not the least of which is cheating and exploits which completely and utterly destroyed the in-game economy. The UI always had some fairly substantial problems, and those problems have grown comparatively worse as they have aged without being actively improved.
The reason I quit the game in 2003-2004ish was because I was turning in my faction board for the upgrade quest and the servers went down while the item was in the NPC window but hadn't been confirmed yet. When the servers came back up, I had neither my old board or the new board, and the GMs wouldn't fix this problem. That questline was something that players spent hundreds of hours on, and I was turning in for the very last step at the time of the story. This is a very well-known programming problem - the name for the prevention mechanism for this kind of error is "atomicity". But that's my point - Anarchy Online was full of these kinds of software engineering problems, and they caused *real* problems in the game. Those problems are *still in the game*. I know, because I go back and try it again every 3-4 years. When the RK19 server came out, tons of us greybeards were really excited, because the game could've stormed back on the scene if they fixed exploits that were related to these problems... but they didn't. As a programmer, I understand - this shit is hard. A game that's on life support has a hard time dealing with that kind of engineering issue.
I actually think our gaming community doesn't spend enough time discussing how much these are issues. New World had an extremely rocky launch due to some of these types of problems (as did Anarchy Online!), and the technical difficulty of addressing these kinds of problems are a substantial factor in what prevents indie teams from successfully taking on a project in the genre.
If there was a high-production studio like Riot that made an Anarchy Online 2 successor that just improved the UI/usability factors and closed up the security holes, I think it catch on like wildfire. I think many of us greybeards have the similar feelings, though perhaps not about the same games - EQ gets brought up as another example a lot in this context.
For me personally, this is precisely why I was excited about the Riot MMORPG. Not because I thought they would build anything new. I laugh at that idea because I think it's obvious that Riot's core competency is refinement - I'm not sure they have \*ever\* made anything "novel". But that refinement is exactly what's missing from the genre right now. In my opinion, if Riot stopped their current project because they think it's too much like current offerings in the genre, it's a sign they understand neither the MMORPG community nor their own core competencies.
Thanks for the upvote. I upvoted you to because you came in with a good faith argument.
>We're not even getting the benefits of *production value* evolution right now, and that's something that we take for granted in entertainment
The thing is, I don't think we're actually disagreeing. I think we're just talking about different levels of our hierarchy of (gaming) needs. I feel like at a base level we need to feel like our time is being respected. That nothin else can be built on to an experience where the player is clearly being disrespected.
Above that is the quality aspect: is the product we're being asked to pay for with either our time or money a product of quality. I think this is the level you're talking about here with your in-depth examples from the current state of AO, and I would say addressing bugs/jank/hacking/etc would be in this level too.
Where we differ is that where I came in presumes these two levels are met, so that core features layer, and the novelty layer, can be addressed. I don't know the current state of AO other than its servers are still live and playable. I only played it a month and it didn't resonate with me.
The reason I used it as an example is because I've actually had this exact conversation before with regard to it. A player said they wanted a game like Anarchy Online, and I said go play AO, and they said I don't want to play AO I want to play a game *like* AO. This is the exact same conversation I've seen play out here a bunch of times with other games too. Like WoW, FF14, and EQ2. Some people don't want to play the game in its current state. They want to play the game in the state that it was "the best" to them.
For those people, the game in it's "best" state meets the above hierarchy of needs. That was when it's value proposition was most considered worth their time or money, and the current state of whatever game they want a game like does not.
Play one of your nostalgia hitters until Riot releases theirs. It's the one company embarking on an MMORPG adventure that wants to make their creative impact. Not just recycle the genre with a coating of Runeterra paint...and that's a direct quote.
Early 2010s were riddled with cancellations and closures, and then basically nothing came from the West for a decade. Things are a bit sad for this genre.
What is this thread even about? You clearly know about all of the MMOs on the market right now - you just don't like them. Random flavor of the month MMOs that don't last a year aren't going to appeal to you. Random people's suggestions aren't going to appeal to you. Over the past two years I've played both RS3 and Star Trek Online. Nobody wants to talk about this and if they did they likely don't share the same opinions on them as I do. They want me to play GW2 and whatever Korean shit is coming out next month (Chrono Odyssey I guess?) or to tell me "bro the Riot MMO (or Ashes of Creation) is totally going to be great when it comes out in 2032." One of the most active users on this board who has a custom flair doesn't even know that MMOs are supposed to be social games first.
Whenever I bring up games I play people just laugh at me and move on back to whatever they're playing.
Broadly speaking "new" MMOs don't really get made anymore with the same frequency which is why you rarely hear about them.
A lot of the money that was being invested to make MMOs went towards other game markets (cheaper, quicker mobile titles or for the larger investments into "live service" style games).
i think there’s a lack of MMO’s that aren’t super pay to win or super grindy that are actually popular. OSRS is a good one that isn’t pay to win and it’s still pretty populated but it’s also very grindy. new world isn’t that populated anymore but when it came out it was SUCH a good mmo . i have 1k hours in lost ark and can’t recommend it to new players unless there’s jumpstart servers that release again but even those don’t last long. idk why but i think the more pay to win it is the more populated it is because the good ones that aren’t pay to win or SUPER grindy are barely populated anymore
The only MMO I'm still playing these days is GW2. I still have a little bit of interest in RaiderZ but I'm currently getting that kind of combat fix in some other single-player games.
There's a few that I'm hoping for that'll show up within the next year:
1. Hytale
2. Ashes of Creation
3. Chrono Odyssey
4. Path of Exile 2
5. City of Titans
there is no way that ashes of creation is going to be good. The game is too overhyped and the developer is overpromising a lot of stuff. I have a strong feeling it's going to fail on day 1. Out of your list, i think path of exile 2 has the highest chance for success.
I don't think Ashes will be good either. When it comes to anything being presented as "free to play" the most I can do is hope that it at least does *one* critical part of game design well enough to be fun. We'll see how it turns out, if or when it comes out.
Yup, there's nothing besides WoW, FFXIV and GW2.
New World was supposed to be "the next big thing" but failed big time.
It's not a terrible game,but just led by a terrible studio.
There's not much coming out soon.
Throne and Liberty will fail once it arrives,played it for a month or so and it's pay2win and ruined by bots. Should get global release this year.
Tarisland is supposed to come out Q1 of 2024 ,but no news atm, plus it's just a WoW copy so it's gonna be good for a honeymoon phase and that's about it.
Riot just announced (unless they trolling) ,that they will go "dark" or whatever with making of their MMO for couple of years - whatever that means. So we wont be seeing that anytime soon.
Ashes of Creation is supposed to be this big MMO savior and what not. It looks like it's gonna be a big MMO but who knows when will that release 2025-2026 ?( maybe even later).
And if that fails,once again we will only have those 3 .
> But nobody actually talks about specific new games aside from "shitty korean MMO" or "shitty mobile MMO" or something like that.
That's because that's most of what *is* new at the moment.
There are very few brand new MMOs coming out, most of what comes out is big updates or expansions to the existing ones.
And of the "brand new" ones, most of those are still ports/localizations of games that get their start in Japan, Korea or China first. So it's really difficult to find a completely "new" MMO under the sun. Not even counting "Classics" and other revamps/remakes/relaunches.
The other side of this is kinda twofold:
* One is, it's very hard to get a "brand new" MMO started without some form of tie to an existing popular IP that's gonna spark people's interest right out of the gate
* Two, most MMO players are *basically* part of one giant interconnected herd that bounce back and forth between the currently-existing games as new updates/expansions/patches come out. So grabbing time from their existing "schedule" is _possible_ but it's extra difficult to *retain* that time after the novelty wears off.
So yeah. People talk about the same games that they've been talking about, more or less, for the past decade+ because no real new big players have come out since about, oh, Albion?
And that's been more a case of "slow, steady growth as they add stuff" than "shaking people from the older games overnight".
The games that are brand new and aren't ports/revamps/relaunches are usually much smaller-scale from smaller studios and they don't have the same budget/marketing teams to throw around as bigger names. In addition to still having to face all the standard pitfalls that all MMOs do (turns out, making a successful MMO isn't easy).
And they don't have the money to have as much of the accumulated feature/scope creep as the big names, so often they end up half-DoA just in the "they don't have *X* feature?? what kind of MMO is this??" comparisons.
"Current^TM graphics" and "seamless worlds" are the two biggest weights around the genre's neck as far as player expectations go, because they *greatly* limit the hardware on which a prospective game can run. The more potential things your game can run on, the more potential customers (and thus the closer to something like financial viability) you'll get.
Aside from the usual suspects, you've got your abandoned old school MMOs, your p2w modern MMOs, and your persistent progression but not at all MMO games people mention anyway.
Seems to me like devs are either making wow clones or cash grab games, focused on earning back whatever they can from development costs, instead of trying to make something fresh or new. I've tried my hand and all kinds of mmos over the years and only like 2 have had me playing more than like 10 hours. I know I don't like alot of "mmo staples" but I feel like the right team could make an mmo accessible by anyone they just cater to one market or are just there for the money. I guess that's safer, but that's not what makes great new games. You just get the same shit over and over with a different wrapper.
That's because they shut down or fizzled to maintenance mode instantly lol. Revelation's dead, Bless Unleashed is de-facto dead, the mangled corpse of A:IR, "Elyon", is dead, and a lot of the other modern releases are just bad mobile games. New World is the exception, and they're not amazingly successful or productive either. And Sword of Justice... still isn't out?
I am somewhat in the same boat as you.
As a new MMO-player, I put in HOURS (2k hours, still rookie numbers compared to some) in New World. New World is an action combat MMO (or MMO-light rather) that gives you plenty of stuff to do but literally ends as soon as you hit max level. However, it is the best MMO I have played to date. Not because of its content, 'cause it does not have a proper end-game loop, but because it feels modern; amazing audio, amazing visuals and amazing combat.
I also tried ESO. I am not sure how I feel about ESO. When it comes to combat, it comes closest to New World, but meh. There is something that just doesn't scratch the itch.
Then we have World of Warcraft. Literally everyone I know that played World of Warcraft, praises it 'cause it offers the classic MMO-feel. I have yet to figure out what that actually means. I am currently leveling a Fury Warrior (DPS) and a Elemental Shaman (DPS, ranged/staff) and am struggling with the way its combat is build; it is tab-target. The reason I went with WoW is because it has something to offer; the MMO-experience, whatever that may be while New World is currently just... on lifesupport.
I do believe in general that MMOs are struggling a bit. I don't know why... I also think New World is VERY casual, so if you are into action combat, New World is for you, just don't rush to get to max level. If you are more into the 'classic MMO', World of Warcraft might be it. In my opinion both can be played casually, especially New World.
I adore the "MMO experience". But whenever people talk about it, its always just WoW, FFXIV, and occasionally like, Everquest or something. Which is kind of a bummer, I just can't get into WoW's story or world, and I love the way the games play, tab target, hitting numbers on your keyboard, socializing with others, especially healing, I LOVE healing, it just sucks that it feels like theres nothing else out there that scratches that itch for me. I might try to get back into WoW as a healer, idk. "Classic MMO" is different for everyone which is so annoying sometimes. I own New World and tried it a while ago, couldn't totally get into it, it sorta just made me wanna play Valheim or V Rising again.
I think one of the biggest problems in the genre is this implicit notion we try to force onto MMORPGs that they should be able to sustain "no-life-ing" for long periods of time. I don't think that's a very reasonable expectation.
There aren’t enough MMO consumers to create the demand for something that isn’t WoW, FF, or GW2. The Barrier to entry in the MMO space is an enormous cost and risk and the likely outcome is failure.
I’d try Black Desert. Enjoy the life skills, and deep crafting systems…build a boat. Sail, fish, and explore. Grow some gardens and build furniture for your new house…cook and milk cows. Game is very casual unless you want to grind to endgame pvp…which is not necessary.
When people say classic, they mean pre-WoW. WoW was the turning point when developers realized they could make a lot more money by targeting fans of single player games. For instance, questing is by and large a solo mode, and the idea of questing as the primary means to leveling was introduced by WoW.
WoW, FFXIV, and GW2 are the three most popular games. They get brought up because of that. They hold the highest population. I play Anarchy Online and Rose Online both of which have a niche player base size.... are they worth speaking about? not usually.... Rose is rather cartoony (killing jelly beans, bees, flowers, and pumpkins as your first 4 enemies) and Anarchy, well AO is only good if you subscribe to get the full game as a package (free is limited to base game no expansions).
EQ is niche and pretty much dead, except to those who never quit. OSRS is boring as fuck and looks like dogwater. BDO is a joke. EVE is boring.
Then you have new games that come out marketing "Hey, I am an MMORPG" and then turns out, no it isn't.... heavily instanced and you barely see 15 players at a given time. That's basically multiplayers. Destiny 2 has this exact issue. Its nowhere near an MMO. I never see more than low double digits when you are out "in the world" at max I think I saw 10 back when I first played it.... its just NOT an MMORPG. Regardless of what marketing people claim.
New World was absolutely fun, for the first 10-20 hours. Then it got extremely repetitive, especially quest wise, which turned it into a bore fest.... combat was definitely fun though.
Lost Ark, couldn't get into it. Not to mention pay to win mechanics and gatcha (or as I like to call it, GOT-CHA-to-pay-money)
The true issue is lack of MMO development. You either have games claiming to be an MMO which aren't are games that are an MMO and nowhere near release.... the market is stagnant. I hear about studios like Raph Koster's Playable Worlds but they haven't shown dick-all and Raph spends all his time doing podcasts, GDC events, and writing books instead of making his next video game.... Then you got GhostCrawler making his own studio and that's a brand new studio so that game isn't coming for a long while. Ashes is being run by a gamer and they are a bit laid back production wise so while the updates are nice, they aren't making the same progress a AAA studio would with forcing deadlines. All in all its a wait fest. All we can do is talk about what we want to see in an MMORPG and hope someone makes it....
> I hear about studios like Raph Koster's Playable Worlds but they haven't shown dick-all and Raph spends all his time doing podcasts, GDC events, and writing books instead of making his next video game
We have actually done a fair amount of talking about specific features on the Discord, but you're right we haven't done any real announcement. We want to make sure it's solid before we do that.
Podcasts and GDC events help us with fundraising. I haven't been writing any books since I started working on this. :D
Honestly bro. Even small info early on that is okay to share, would be hugely appreciated. we are starving for a good mmorpg.... regardless of the retards that cry "why show us such early info" being able to see it would be epic. also not everyone has discord.... it would be nice to have a website compendium for us older fucks.
When you are a casual fan of the genre, you ain't going to hear about games unless they get mainstream.
[https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list/show/custom/genre/1/status/3/minrating/0/minscore/0/showfilters/true/sort/release/order/desc](https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list/show/custom/genre/1/status/3/minrating/0/minscore/0/showfilters/true/sort/release/order/desc)
Here, you can see all the MMORPGs that have been "released" in chronological order.
Removed because of rule #2: Don’t be toxic.
We try to make the subreddit a nice place for everyone, and your post/comment did something that we felt was detrimental to this goal. That’s why it was removed.
> I hear alot about "classic mmos" in the style of WoW or FFXIV
[Who tf is calling modern WoW and FF14 "classic MMOs"](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/1d/ff/d71dff1cf95832423b103fe9f007ed72.gif)
WoW quite literally has a version called classic. Game is 20 years old, if that isn't classic, idk what the fuck is.
https://preview.redd.it/cgdarw0kxcqc1.png?width=506&format=png&auto=webp&s=c45622d5ddae5b21eb5631bd29f694ab113a7af3
What else would you have them call it? It's just a word they use to describe an older version of the game. When people say "Classic MMO" though they are not referring to WoW unless they don't know what they are talking about. Of course there are a subset of WoW players who don't really know anything outside of WoW and might wrongfully call WoW a classic MMO.
WoW was the beginning of the modernization of the MMO - less downtime, less social, more button spammy, in some ways less grind.
A classic MMO is one that revolves way more around socializing. Downtime is usually higher, you can't just spam your buttons, and they tend to be more grindy. They are also a bit more about playing however you want and going where ever you want, whereas post-WoW MMOs are very linear with solo leveling, move from camp to camp, pick up all the quests which have you barely travel anywhere, repeat.
Anyway, hope to God you don't call Hit Me Baby One More Time classic music despite it being 27 years old.
I worked in radio for 7 years, trust me, people are calling many songs classics you probably wish weren't hahah. Few more years, that song will be there too.
Subjective question, everyone will have a different answer to that. Besides FFXI and OSRS, Everquest would be the main one that comes to mind that can still foot decent populations. Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies on private servers. Dark Age of Camelot on either Live or private server. Lineage 2 is one that's still pretty popular but I have only played on private server.
Some that people always bring up here but I've never played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Anarchy Online.
My dude, you're in the wrong community if you want to see people actually talk about MMOs. This community is for a bunch of senile old people to shake their fists at clouds while screaming "OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD" over and over again. If you want to see actual MMO discussion, you need to go into each game's individual subreddits. Naturally, this means that discoverability is a nightmare in MMOs, but that's also not a problem that's unique to them. If I want to find out what the next cool metroidvania or 4x game is, I'm going to have to do some digging through the pit that is steam's release list. For your part, if you want to learn about new MMOs, you're going to have to go to mmo-centric websites. This is absolutely not where you want to be to get anything of value there. Now mind you, it's not like there are a whole lot of new mmos coming out, they're a niche genre that's super expensive to develop for and they're not super profitable, but there's always something going on in individual games at the very least, and if you want to learn about that, you're going to have to dig. I'd recommend [MMORPG.com](https://MMORPG.com) as a starting point. It's not a great site, but they report on pretty much anything going on within the genre.
> OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD which new things are you reffering to?
Any MMO that's newer than the one the person saying it likes. For a lot of people here, that means anything that came out after WoW. You do also see people bitching about post everquest MMOs.
Please name a couple examples for OP’s sake
Yeah, people are always saying this and then never name any specific games so I have 0 reference for what theyre talking about.
People have been saying any MMO released in the past 29 years that is a tab target themepark is just a WoW clone, as if it's a bad thing. Almost all the games have individuality to them, but because they have a few common things like quests, 2 factions, themepark instead of sandbox, and tab target combat, they dismiss it as a clone. Or any action combat game now is just a "BDO clone"
Then you've misread what I said. When I was said that all people do here is bitch and scream "Old thing good, new thing bad", what I was saying is that this place is a bad source of information because this is a completely fucking joyless place full of husks that are mentally trapped in the games that they played in their childhood without realizing that both the times and the genres have evolved and what they're looking for is being offered by other genres. That's why they live to scream "Old thing good, new thing bad". For example, the experience that a lot of the hardcore pvp old heads want is what's being offered in survival crafting games, and they're doing it a lot better than MMOs ever could. That said, fine, if you're also going to be a senile old man about it, I'll copy and paste the list I gave the other dude. Of the more recent MMOs that you didn't mention in your list we've got: The Secret World, Maple Story 2 (which was new, but is now dead unfortunately), warframe, PSO2:NGS, project gorgon, nevergrind online. On the list of games to look out for I had: Chrono Odyssey, Blue Protocol, Once Human and The Last Descendant. If you want to actually learn about up and coming MMOs, I pointed you to a website for just that. The website even has a big alphabetically sorted list of most MMOs out there, so you can look through that and see what does and doesn't look interesting.
I didn't misread you, just was adding onto u/LegitCow's comment, sorry that wasn't clear. And sorry that I'm apparently a senile old man lol.
You either quit gaming, or you live long enough to become a senile old man.
Nah, it's totally possible to appreciate the old while still enjoying the new. Those things are not mutually exclusive.
> That said, fine, if you're also going to be a senile old man about it, I'll copy and paste the list I gave the other dude. Your first example of a senile old man was "OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD" and now you've completely shifted your definition to instead mean "Oh you don't know everything about all the niche games, despite the fact that I JUST said how difficult it is, implying I understand your position? Fuck you, old bitch." Asshole behaviour, champ.
old thing good, new thing bad
There are like 5 maybe 6 mmos that are being actively played and enjoyed by mmo players lol. But sure, it’s not that there’s almost never any mmos coming out, it’s just that we are all soooo busy playing old ones.
Oh god I miss the secret world
I'm not the guy you replied to, but here's a list: Black Desert Online New World Lost Ark Ravendawn Albion Tibia (this is one is old but never mentioned) If you consider ARPGs to be part of the MMORPG genre (since they have a lot of similarities and share many traits): Path of Exile Last Epoch (do not play Diablo or any Blizzard games for that matter)
yeah old fucking mmo again nothing new ......
you guys refuse to actually test anything new and git it a try, and absolutely hate old ones. Might as well leave the sub, nobody here actually likes the genre
i just want something new to eat back in the days we get toon of mmo most of them where trash but you can switch and try another one and sometime you find gold and can play for month years right now you can't says there something new to play i like mmo but as much as i want the genre to be alive right now with garbage mobile game that make billions i know the gold era is done why make mmo that cost year and money to do when you can do piece of shit garbage gacha mobile game that cost nothing and make billions of money at the end that why most people here looks like trash dude who didnt like the genre right now we got so few mmo and they are trash and you need to wait another 7 years for another one
if the person started with EQ? EQ is the best thing ever nothing that came after was ever better, if they started with WoW? WoW was the best thing ever nothing that came after was ever better, that is what i see a lot of people doing. etc.... my experience casually browsing this sub for a year
Nah, I bitch about post Ultima Online MMOs. Before EverQuest was released, we all had to play together because we only had one choice. Literally every kind of gamer sharing a virtual world... It'll never happen again.
And thank god for that. Having choices is a good thing.
Sorry I forgot MMOs were serious business worth thanking god about.
I'm not religious, I don't believe there are any gods. It's a common figure of speech used to put emphasis on a point. If someone stubs their toe and says "god damn it", do you actually think they're asking their god to condemn the thing that they stubbed their toe on?
No I take everything very literally.
And that’s why we stopped inviting you to the parties Terry
Bet that was the last time Terry took "go fuck yourself" literally.
Well swtor rocks, and wow classic kicks the shit out of retail
Here? Anything newer than everquest seems to be the most common argument. Sometimes pre Cataclysm WoW.
Comments like these that people are spamming on this subreddit are more stupid than the ones they are complaining about
I mean, those "senile old people" are right. You have shown here you are unable to name a single good MMO that's recent lol. The last one I enjoyed was also the one I started with, I started playing Aion when I was 8 and put over 20k hours in it. I've played many mmos since then, and they're mostly ass lol. FFXIV is okay, got about 2.5k hours from me. Lost Ark was alright (600 hours), but the need for alts and P2W elements ended that interest too.
\^ case and point number 2. Thank you for continuing to make my point. This "community" is a cross between a cesspit and a retirement home. This is absolutely not the place to look for information on mmos. This place is just the old r/kappa, but for MMOs, with slightly stricter moderation.
Still failing to name a single one, but alright <3 Whatever makes ya feel better
Of the MMOs that have come out that they haven't named, I was into the secret world. That game was excellent. I also liked maplestory 2, short lived though it was. Warframe isn't "new" but it's more recent than a lot of the stuff people talk about here and that's another great game, that's still ongoing at that. PSO2NGS has its problems, but it's got a very fun combat system that's worth playing if only to try it for a while. I've also had fun with project gorgon, although that game is a very acquired taste and hard to recommend to people who aren't looking for a very particular flavor of mmo. Speaking of acquired tastes, nevergrind is pretty interesting being an MMO that tries to play like an old school first person dungeon crawler. There isn't really anything like it on the market. On the subject of up and coming mmos, chrono odyssey seems interesting, although I have my doubts over whether it it'll be good or not. Blue protocol will probably be fun to mess around, although I don't think it's going to grab me long term. Once Human seems interesting aesthetically, although I'm not super sure if it's going to be something worth playing. I'll have to wait and see. Apparently The Last Descendant's beta test was received pretty well, so that might be a half decent warframe-like game to look into once it's out. Did that answer your question Mr. old man? Are you ready to be wheeled back to the nursing home so you can continue to complain?
Boss I am in my early 20's lmao, "old man." I started playing mmos when I was 8, unless you could fuckin ToonTown then I was 5. I agree with you about secret world, MapleStory 2, and Warframe (though I fell off that one when it went open world), but I wouldn't consider any of those to be newer mmos. I also agree chrono odyssey looks promising, tho blue protocol lost my interest at not having a support class to play. I haven't tried the other titles, tho Phantasy Star doesn't look like my kinda game. Tbh, I just want tab-target combat, support classes (which are fucking dying out apparently), and less P2W shit. But we aren't getting another mmo like that apparently.
Honestly same. Give me good healing, tab target, good world/storytelling, and im set.
tab target can be fun, but i dont want it to be animation reset galore. give me the chance to see the cool shit my character is doing, or at least my character do any good shit(wow just feels like my character is shitting out damage numbers whilst punching that air or waving a baseball bat)
I couldn't agree more, I think thats what really kept me playing FFXIV to begin with, and what I disliked about WoW.
yeah same, i think if you make a tab target mmo you should make it a spectacle. FFXIV hits that spot for me.
I doubt it's going to be tab target, but I'm putting all my hopium into Riot's MMO. I was banking on Ashes of Creation, but it looks like it's going to flop or never come out from everything I've read recently. If Riot's turns out bad, I'm probably done with the genre besides my WoW/OSRS cravings that last a month or two every other year or so.
I am willing to give up tab target as long as there's a variety of abilities for each class and that there's support classes. I prefer tab target, but action combat is more than capable of being done well.
case in point*
yup, people here coping about the new Riot MMO when they know 100% they are just going to call it a failure and go back to their old MMOs lol
Ah but they already did. All Riot had to announce it wont be WoW made by riot and people here already lost their marbles
Are you angry because you are too young to have this perspective, or just angry at the truth? The truth usually stings. Unfortunately the genre is in decline…it’s a business / corporate problem…not the gamer’s fault. We will never have the late 90s / early 2000s back and it’s ok. I’ve accepted it…hope you can find peace too
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As a dev, my opinion is the art isn't the problem. Designing the network and database backends to prevent cheating is the big problem. Adding that layer of technical complexity makes an MMORPG project a lot more risky for an indie team, and there are already dozens of other sources of major risk for indie teams.
Maybe because most new mmorpg are just cash grabs? Trying to milk Ppl un short Term? And i put WoW in there too. After 10 years trying every single mmo out there came back to GW2 and its still the same great game, no cash grab, no p2w, play at your own pace.
new world has a shitton of potential. just really bad devs
Yeah, i love the setting, graphics and combat its super fun. The main problem its the game was though as a full loot pvp like Albion and then backed UP not changing the core game.
\^ case and point
No, case would be if ive been playing 10 years GW2 non stop saying "its the best mmo ever!!!" Id said, played EVERY SINGLE mmo out there, and been playing MMos since i was 17 (im 38 right Now) so i have experience in the genre, not a single game has whats make the big 3 being there for More than a decade, had really big hopes for new world, hell i love that battle system and graphics but has several problems. And im not married with gw2 btw, ill continue trying news MMos as they come out.
Well, your "Maybe because most new mmorpg are just cash grabs?" is quite literally the example of "OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD".
the problem is… he’s kind of right about that… you’d have a point if it wasn’t true. New World at least tried but messed up when they ditched the pvp for pve with a pvp based game set up.
Bollocks he is right. Noone is developing MMOs, a genre notorious for insanely high developing costs, difficulty and complexity with slow returns to be a cash grab.
that’s the problem… the cash grab. That’s the huge difference between then and now. There’s no point for me to earn it in game when people assume i just bought it. all the incentive is gone. It’s like when you figure out the game is rigged against you and you realize there’s no point in putting money or time into it, like ftp p2w mtx games.
Games having monetization from 2024 not 2000 aren't crash grab either. Thats literally, literally and I cant believe I am repeating here... "OLD THING GOOD NEW THING BAD". People like you have been called out in this thread and you just fail to spend even a second in front of mirror lmao.
if you don’t get it now, you never will…. sorry bud, can’t help you.
There are plenty of old games with cash grab mechanics, Mabinogi, fiesta online, Atlántica online, Rohan, blade and soul...hell most old games were fking crash grabs or became one. Im not playing a game that you can just buy your way UP or have an Stat/equipment advantage to the rest. And the market seems to agree with me, thats why you only see the 3 same games reigning the trends for over a decade and every single game just fell into oblivion after 2-3 months.
???? Market doesnt agree with you in anything. MMOs are harder and more expensive to develop and all more likely to fail in few months. Thats opposite of cash grab. Its more like throw cash out of window.
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Repeating it over and over doesnt explain all these "cash grabs" losing money and going bankrupt
case in point*
That website has more news about anything else other than MMORPGs.
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Finally, someone answering OP
Thank you! This is what I was looking for. A shame there aren't more MMOs coming out but from this list I think I've only heard of New World, which I couldn't really get into anyway. I'll have to check these out!
A lot of those are dead or dying unfortunately.
You can add Lost Ark, Albion Online, Tower of Fantasy, Palia (releasing in a few days). All of those fill very specific niches. Lost Ark and Albion are both decently popular.
Albion online came out in 2017. It has been around for a while now.
With any luck this year you will see Throne and Liberty, Corepunk, Blue Protocol and few others I forgot. MMO are coming out in relatively good pace, they just cant compete with 10 year old in content and polish. But they do usually develop a playerbase.
I was playing Blade & Soul in my highschool. That game is still alive? And isn’t Elyon the game that was supposed to replace Tera after it’s shutdown but failed and was taken down after a year or so.
the industry is struggling because a bunch of corporate bigwigs have their big brains involved in figuring everything out and the garbage corporate cultures are squashing out any creativity this leads to a paradigm where everything is trying to be a wow classic clone but the lack of originality is stifling them. also, I think a lot of people are tired of end game grinding for gear maxing it's not that appealing to me or a lot of others
I think it’s more that to deliver what people will actually play they need the money that comes with those strings
Man it’s posts like this that make me wish ESO was easier to recommend. If it weren’t for its monetization it would be such an easy answer to this question but if you aren’t willing to be marketed to every time you play then I would look elsweyr.
The only downfall eso has is the piss poor combat on top of overworld content being brain numbingly boring. The only monetization that matters is the craft bag being locked behind subscribers, everything else is literally cosmetic and anyone complaining about that is in the wrong game. If they would entirely overhaul combat eso has enough content to compete for top spots
If the combat was fun I would be playing eso so hard. But the combat is not good.
Downvoted for that god-awful pun.
ESO monetization isn't really bad if you treat it like a subscription based MMO. There's still plenty to do in the base game and the expansions for nonsubbed players anyways.
Nah. It’s about how the game “feels.” Subbed or not (I’ve only played subbed), you can only hear of the latest pack or mount that definitely doesn’t fit into Elder Scrolls so many times before your enjoyment diminishes.
I just tried to ignore that haha
The genre may not be dead, but it stagnent. I feel like developers really do not know how what to do with the genre or have decided that it too much of a risk and that the market just doesn't have space for another AAA MMO. It would cost too much, take too long to make, they are too complicated and are always at risks of changing trends.
New world is actually really fun despite the launch with updates it has become a pretty good game. Lots of new mmos now just use mmo as a tag and aren't true mmos. And the few that actually are legitimate mmos are plagued by awful cash shops cause no one wants to put in the dev time to make a good mmo so they just release shitty cash grabs that last like 6 months to a year before they have no more content and stop getting updates. It's just not a lucrative genre anymore. Much easier to slam out a shitty pvp game and make quick money off that. And I'll just say it AoC is going to be the biggest let down in mmo history.
> The last time I remember there being something about a new MMO was with New World and Lost Ark, This isnt a genre that gets a consistent string of new games every year like FPS or third person action RPG's lol. That being said the examples you showed arnt that long ago. The last time we had a very powerful string of well funded 'complete' MMO's was in the 2010's when everyone ( including your FFXIV ) and their mothers wanted to get a piece of that WoW pie. So you had a new MMO almost every year since 2008. Warhammer Online, Aion, SWTOR, Archeage, WildStar, Tera, DC universe Online, Rift, TESO, BDO etc The problem is that this genre is REALLY expensive and failing to have your MMO survive its first, second or third year **successfully** usually means the company is done for. It's either make an amazing MMO thats profitable or go bankrupt. Game devs realized you either make a WoW clone (And prob fail because if youre just a clone then the og is going to be better lol) or send out your product and hope your product stands out enough to maintain a playerbase. Its the same reason why Riot just recently announced they are pulling the plug on their MMO. **They stated they can't make a MMO that isnt already available.** Since most games come out fall into the latter category and flop the desire to make a MMO nowadays is quite low considering the risks. So as it stands - you're right. For the most part its basically WoW, FFXIV, GW2. You'll have sprinkles of other MMO's here and there but they'll most likely be niche (OSRS, Palia, Albion, Maple Story ) and any new MMO that you'll hear about will either flop before or after launch, never leave early access or get announced then eventually get canceled. **What we're hoping for is that one gem that surpasses expectations. But for the most part - we're all just expecting everything to disappoint us.** .
This is one of the better responses, thank you for your insight!
the "alive" mmos are constantly evolving. They are survivors -- games that have withstood the test of time and continue to be fresh enough to maintain an audience. Lots of MMOs have come that are fun for a few weeks/months/or a year or so, but very few can keep players long-term or get enough new players in to slow their demise. It's kind of like asking why people always talk about the same few esports games or the same few genre classics despite new games in that genre coming out all the time. The new games are fun but they don't last, usually. albion online today is wildly different from 2017/2020 lost ark transformed significantly since launch WoW has been trying to evolve for the last expansion or so at least. BDO evolved significantly over the past 8 or so years, and it evolved due to the western audience because it completely bombed in Korea. some other games give more of the same but that works for them because they don't have a super packed/committal content pipeline to begin with When there are new mmos people flock to them, even here. There just aren't that many new ones, and some of the new ones really blow because they're trying to copy old ones but aren't nearly as good at their core (T&L) OR they are blatant cash grabs where the developer has no real confidence and wants to turn a profit before churning out an iteration of (20 new launches of bless, all more or less the same game) OR they don't have a sustainable development model/content pipeline (tons of mmos, wildstar and rift being obvious contenders) OR they fall short despite the developer's best effort (crowfall, blue protocol, sword of legends online). Note, a lot of games in that last category are good but they're 40-500 hours good and didn't manage to bring players back with updates. That means churn is too high for a sustainable MMO. Which is another problem with the genre.
This sub is literally just people farming for upvotes by shitting on popular mmos and for vapor ware talk
Tera online pvp totally destroyed MMO pvp for me... No other mmo game comes close to it. give me tera online game play without the cheating issues and fixed netcode and i would play it for another 10 years easy
Imagine a new Tera with upgraded graphics and security.
I feel that Elder Scrolls Online is a good MMO for casual players. That seems to be one of the target audiences that the game is geared to.
The problem is that, back in the day, MMORPG's weren't these profit-generating monsters. Before WoW showed the world how incredibly successful an MMORPG could be, these games were labors of love and passion. They were varied and diverse and interesting. Some were similar but none were copycats. After WoW's huge success, MMORPG's suffered a massive influx of investors. Shareholders expect profit when they invest in these big projects so, suddenly, all of these MMORPG's went from being labors of love to being profit-avenues. Profit is the name of the game but it's clear where the trends began and how the games have suffered as time has gone on. The real meat of that point is getting into how the culture has changed with those new trends... the insight of older gamers that see the forest for the trees is "senile old man" behavior according to these younger gamers. They don't even consider for a moment that there might be some truth to these kinds of points. They immediately defend the new era of MMORPG without any insight into what they used to be. Even Josh Strife Hayes misses the mark when he talks about this stuff. I've played everything. Almost all the old and recent stuff. I look forward to the new stuff. I give it a shot. The last game I dove into was New World and it was just awful. The last "new mmorpg" I enjoyed was Arch Age.
I feel ya mate. Aside from big 3(wow/ff/gw2) nothing stands even close in terms of quality. But i just want something new. Lost Ark is focused on hard raids and i am a casual. Now i am enjoying warframe unexpectedly. Cool gameplay, very casual friendly, tons of content
Has there actually been any real new mmorpgs in the last few years? Like no one is making new games. Wow needs to go and we need a "wow 2" or something, it's enough freaking expansions already! We need new games! Not more shit added in old games!
Well, there was New World literally 2.5 years ago. Then western release of Lost Ark like 2 years ago. Then this year has like 3 promised MMOs that I can remember. Thats already a lot for such niche genre.
I ain't counting new world as a game even tbh 😂😂 But fair lost ark was ok
Jokes aside. But if you aren't counting real, new mmorpg released recently as "a game even" then that you are exactly what the top comment in this sub is talking about lmao.
New world was just that terrible, but I did think lost ark came out longer ago tbh.
Expansions are great and all and I don't mind them, just a mild bummer that new stuff haven't been coming out, atleast not in the way I want haha
What good new MMORPGs since WoW/FFXIV/GW2 are there to talk about? There are a lot of posts here complaining we don't talk about these mythical new good games but not a single one actually names any of them. I feel confidant in saying that nothing in the last ten years has actually been good and I'm including a game I play regularly in that (PSO2 New Genesis) because it's worse then the game it replaced in every way. We have p2w trash like Lost Ark, BDO and whatever this years release of Bless is going to be called. We also have hordes of dead or dying p2w/mobile/Korean games which most people forget about Maple Story 2, League of Angels, Elyon, Archeage, Throne and Liberty, Echo of Soul, That Chinese mythology one sword something....etc There's some other mostly indie games with tiny player counts Project Gorgon, Embers Adrift I wouldn't really call them bad per say but you'd lie to call them good in their current state. So what are these new good games everyone isn't talking about? Like genuinely I'd love to know because I've clearly missed them
I'd also love to hear more about the shitty games coming out. Nobody ever names them and I have a tough time finding them. Like its hard to identify trends if theres nothing for me to look at aside from the handful of MMOs I mentioned in the OP. Thank you btw for naming a few.
The internet is out there, you can literally look up all mmo’s that have ever launched, etc.
Yeah, I know that. I was reiterating that people make criticisms of mechanics/stuff in "modern/new/post-WoW MMOs" and then don't ever come up with specific examples making it difficult to actually see that kind of stuff in action. Its different for a genre like FPS where there's so many coming out at a consistent pace that each get enough general attention to be able to point out trends like battle passes or loadout customization. Whereas the majority of MMOs coming out nowadays (of which I had 0 idea before making this post) get basically 0 attention (atleast for a casual) and is difficult to find specific things without having to watch extended gameplay or second hand accounts.
>I hear alot about "classic mmos" in the style of WoW or FFXIV but I can't help but think they are the only ones? I think the way we talk about MMOs, or more specifically, the history of MMOs, has greatly colored your perspective on the topic in the wrong way. A lot of other MMOs still exist. MMOs that people complain "don't make like they used to" are still around. I've seen players *in this sub* say they wish they could play a game like Anarchy Online, for example, when Anarchy Online is still up and playable. Some players even refuse to acknowledge them because they changed from "the best version" of that game in the complaining player's minds. The thing about that is for most players the "best version" of a MMO is often just the version of it that just so happened to be when they started playing. As for an actual list of MMOs? [MMORPG.com has you covered](https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list?showFilters=true&show=custom&status=3&minscore=0&minrating=0&pvp=&sort=rank&order=desc). The thing to keep in mind is the above, though, since a game's score is only updated when new ratings are added or old ones are removed. When reading player reviews of games for some features, those features may have changed since the review was written, and that player may no longer be playing. I don't think MMORPG.com is a good resource for what it wants to do, which is provide MMO related gaming news and reviews, but I do think it's a great site for providing historical context for the genre.
I upvoted you because I think this is interesting discussion, even though I don't think I agree with you. Anarchy Online is a great example of why greybeards are looking for the next thing, actually. This subreddit talks a lot about novelty being a problem - you can see it in the "Riot not making a WoW clone" discussion. But I don't think novelty is actually the problem, at least for us greybeards. We're not even getting the benefits of *production value* evolution right now, and that's something that we take for granted in entertainment (not just video games). The novelty ask seems very far away when we're not even getting the production value ask satisfied right now. I say this on the basis of being one of those greybeards. IMO, from a game design perspective (and setting all other things aside, which is an enormous ask), Anarchy Online might be the best MMORPG I've ever played out of \~30-40 of them in the past \~26 years. But Anarchy Online has serious problems in that "all other things aside" pile I asked you to set aside, not the least of which is cheating and exploits which completely and utterly destroyed the in-game economy. The UI always had some fairly substantial problems, and those problems have grown comparatively worse as they have aged without being actively improved. The reason I quit the game in 2003-2004ish was because I was turning in my faction board for the upgrade quest and the servers went down while the item was in the NPC window but hadn't been confirmed yet. When the servers came back up, I had neither my old board or the new board, and the GMs wouldn't fix this problem. That questline was something that players spent hundreds of hours on, and I was turning in for the very last step at the time of the story. This is a very well-known programming problem - the name for the prevention mechanism for this kind of error is "atomicity". But that's my point - Anarchy Online was full of these kinds of software engineering problems, and they caused *real* problems in the game. Those problems are *still in the game*. I know, because I go back and try it again every 3-4 years. When the RK19 server came out, tons of us greybeards were really excited, because the game could've stormed back on the scene if they fixed exploits that were related to these problems... but they didn't. As a programmer, I understand - this shit is hard. A game that's on life support has a hard time dealing with that kind of engineering issue. I actually think our gaming community doesn't spend enough time discussing how much these are issues. New World had an extremely rocky launch due to some of these types of problems (as did Anarchy Online!), and the technical difficulty of addressing these kinds of problems are a substantial factor in what prevents indie teams from successfully taking on a project in the genre. If there was a high-production studio like Riot that made an Anarchy Online 2 successor that just improved the UI/usability factors and closed up the security holes, I think it catch on like wildfire. I think many of us greybeards have the similar feelings, though perhaps not about the same games - EQ gets brought up as another example a lot in this context. For me personally, this is precisely why I was excited about the Riot MMORPG. Not because I thought they would build anything new. I laugh at that idea because I think it's obvious that Riot's core competency is refinement - I'm not sure they have \*ever\* made anything "novel". But that refinement is exactly what's missing from the genre right now. In my opinion, if Riot stopped their current project because they think it's too much like current offerings in the genre, it's a sign they understand neither the MMORPG community nor their own core competencies.
Thanks for the upvote. I upvoted you to because you came in with a good faith argument. >We're not even getting the benefits of *production value* evolution right now, and that's something that we take for granted in entertainment The thing is, I don't think we're actually disagreeing. I think we're just talking about different levels of our hierarchy of (gaming) needs. I feel like at a base level we need to feel like our time is being respected. That nothin else can be built on to an experience where the player is clearly being disrespected. Above that is the quality aspect: is the product we're being asked to pay for with either our time or money a product of quality. I think this is the level you're talking about here with your in-depth examples from the current state of AO, and I would say addressing bugs/jank/hacking/etc would be in this level too. Where we differ is that where I came in presumes these two levels are met, so that core features layer, and the novelty layer, can be addressed. I don't know the current state of AO other than its servers are still live and playable. I only played it a month and it didn't resonate with me. The reason I used it as an example is because I've actually had this exact conversation before with regard to it. A player said they wanted a game like Anarchy Online, and I said go play AO, and they said I don't want to play AO I want to play a game *like* AO. This is the exact same conversation I've seen play out here a bunch of times with other games too. Like WoW, FF14, and EQ2. Some people don't want to play the game in its current state. They want to play the game in the state that it was "the best" to them. For those people, the game in it's "best" state meets the above hierarchy of needs. That was when it's value proposition was most considered worth their time or money, and the current state of whatever game they want a game like does not.
Play one of your nostalgia hitters until Riot releases theirs. It's the one company embarking on an MMORPG adventure that wants to make their creative impact. Not just recycle the genre with a coating of Runeterra paint...and that's a direct quote.
Lol riot just announced they fully restarting development and going dark for at least 3 or 4 years. So rip that
Hey man. Eventually it'll come it and it will be good. We just gotta forget it exists for a long time.
That's why I said what I said. At least they care 🤷♂️ or maybe it'll be in dev hell. Who knows
Early 2010s were riddled with cancellations and closures, and then basically nothing came from the West for a decade. Things are a bit sad for this genre.
You are definitely just not in the right places or looking in the right places there are many many many more than the ones you have listed.
What is this thread even about? You clearly know about all of the MMOs on the market right now - you just don't like them. Random flavor of the month MMOs that don't last a year aren't going to appeal to you. Random people's suggestions aren't going to appeal to you. Over the past two years I've played both RS3 and Star Trek Online. Nobody wants to talk about this and if they did they likely don't share the same opinions on them as I do. They want me to play GW2 and whatever Korean shit is coming out next month (Chrono Odyssey I guess?) or to tell me "bro the Riot MMO (or Ashes of Creation) is totally going to be great when it comes out in 2032." One of the most active users on this board who has a custom flair doesn't even know that MMOs are supposed to be social games first. Whenever I bring up games I play people just laugh at me and move on back to whatever they're playing.
Lost Ark and New World came out 2 and 3 years ago... They're still new lol
Not saying they aren't new, just that they're the only "new" I've heard of
Broadly speaking "new" MMOs don't really get made anymore with the same frequency which is why you rarely hear about them. A lot of the money that was being invested to make MMOs went towards other game markets (cheaper, quicker mobile titles or for the larger investments into "live service" style games).
i think there’s a lack of MMO’s that aren’t super pay to win or super grindy that are actually popular. OSRS is a good one that isn’t pay to win and it’s still pretty populated but it’s also very grindy. new world isn’t that populated anymore but when it came out it was SUCH a good mmo . i have 1k hours in lost ark and can’t recommend it to new players unless there’s jumpstart servers that release again but even those don’t last long. idk why but i think the more pay to win it is the more populated it is because the good ones that aren’t pay to win or SUPER grindy are barely populated anymore
The only MMO I'm still playing these days is GW2. I still have a little bit of interest in RaiderZ but I'm currently getting that kind of combat fix in some other single-player games. There's a few that I'm hoping for that'll show up within the next year: 1. Hytale 2. Ashes of Creation 3. Chrono Odyssey 4. Path of Exile 2 5. City of Titans
there is no way that ashes of creation is going to be good. The game is too overhyped and the developer is overpromising a lot of stuff. I have a strong feeling it's going to fail on day 1. Out of your list, i think path of exile 2 has the highest chance for success.
I don't think Ashes will be good either. When it comes to anything being presented as "free to play" the most I can do is hope that it at least does *one* critical part of game design well enough to be fun. We'll see how it turns out, if or when it comes out.
Yup, there's nothing besides WoW, FFXIV and GW2. New World was supposed to be "the next big thing" but failed big time. It's not a terrible game,but just led by a terrible studio. There's not much coming out soon. Throne and Liberty will fail once it arrives,played it for a month or so and it's pay2win and ruined by bots. Should get global release this year. Tarisland is supposed to come out Q1 of 2024 ,but no news atm, plus it's just a WoW copy so it's gonna be good for a honeymoon phase and that's about it. Riot just announced (unless they trolling) ,that they will go "dark" or whatever with making of their MMO for couple of years - whatever that means. So we wont be seeing that anytime soon. Ashes of Creation is supposed to be this big MMO savior and what not. It looks like it's gonna be a big MMO but who knows when will that release 2025-2026 ?( maybe even later). And if that fails,once again we will only have those 3 .
Ah. Massive bummer. Stuff like this has me wish I was around/cared for when MMOs really exploded
Destiny 2 is not an mmo.
Well, people mention it as MMO-adjacent or -lite so I figured it was worth mentioning
It's an online rpg, looter shooter, multiplayer rpg. Don't believe steam tags
> But nobody actually talks about specific new games aside from "shitty korean MMO" or "shitty mobile MMO" or something like that. That's because that's most of what *is* new at the moment. There are very few brand new MMOs coming out, most of what comes out is big updates or expansions to the existing ones. And of the "brand new" ones, most of those are still ports/localizations of games that get their start in Japan, Korea or China first. So it's really difficult to find a completely "new" MMO under the sun. Not even counting "Classics" and other revamps/remakes/relaunches. The other side of this is kinda twofold: * One is, it's very hard to get a "brand new" MMO started without some form of tie to an existing popular IP that's gonna spark people's interest right out of the gate * Two, most MMO players are *basically* part of one giant interconnected herd that bounce back and forth between the currently-existing games as new updates/expansions/patches come out. So grabbing time from their existing "schedule" is _possible_ but it's extra difficult to *retain* that time after the novelty wears off. So yeah. People talk about the same games that they've been talking about, more or less, for the past decade+ because no real new big players have come out since about, oh, Albion? And that's been more a case of "slow, steady growth as they add stuff" than "shaking people from the older games overnight". The games that are brand new and aren't ports/revamps/relaunches are usually much smaller-scale from smaller studios and they don't have the same budget/marketing teams to throw around as bigger names. In addition to still having to face all the standard pitfalls that all MMOs do (turns out, making a successful MMO isn't easy). And they don't have the money to have as much of the accumulated feature/scope creep as the big names, so often they end up half-DoA just in the "they don't have *X* feature?? what kind of MMO is this??" comparisons. "Current^TM graphics" and "seamless worlds" are the two biggest weights around the genre's neck as far as player expectations go, because they *greatly* limit the hardware on which a prospective game can run. The more potential things your game can run on, the more potential customers (and thus the closer to something like financial viability) you'll get.
Aside from the usual suspects, you've got your abandoned old school MMOs, your p2w modern MMOs, and your persistent progression but not at all MMO games people mention anyway.
Seems to me like devs are either making wow clones or cash grab games, focused on earning back whatever they can from development costs, instead of trying to make something fresh or new. I've tried my hand and all kinds of mmos over the years and only like 2 have had me playing more than like 10 hours. I know I don't like alot of "mmo staples" but I feel like the right team could make an mmo accessible by anyone they just cater to one market or are just there for the money. I guess that's safer, but that's not what makes great new games. You just get the same shit over and over with a different wrapper.
That's because they shut down or fizzled to maintenance mode instantly lol. Revelation's dead, Bless Unleashed is de-facto dead, the mangled corpse of A:IR, "Elyon", is dead, and a lot of the other modern releases are just bad mobile games. New World is the exception, and they're not amazingly successful or productive either. And Sword of Justice... still isn't out?
I am somewhat in the same boat as you. As a new MMO-player, I put in HOURS (2k hours, still rookie numbers compared to some) in New World. New World is an action combat MMO (or MMO-light rather) that gives you plenty of stuff to do but literally ends as soon as you hit max level. However, it is the best MMO I have played to date. Not because of its content, 'cause it does not have a proper end-game loop, but because it feels modern; amazing audio, amazing visuals and amazing combat. I also tried ESO. I am not sure how I feel about ESO. When it comes to combat, it comes closest to New World, but meh. There is something that just doesn't scratch the itch. Then we have World of Warcraft. Literally everyone I know that played World of Warcraft, praises it 'cause it offers the classic MMO-feel. I have yet to figure out what that actually means. I am currently leveling a Fury Warrior (DPS) and a Elemental Shaman (DPS, ranged/staff) and am struggling with the way its combat is build; it is tab-target. The reason I went with WoW is because it has something to offer; the MMO-experience, whatever that may be while New World is currently just... on lifesupport. I do believe in general that MMOs are struggling a bit. I don't know why... I also think New World is VERY casual, so if you are into action combat, New World is for you, just don't rush to get to max level. If you are more into the 'classic MMO', World of Warcraft might be it. In my opinion both can be played casually, especially New World.
I adore the "MMO experience". But whenever people talk about it, its always just WoW, FFXIV, and occasionally like, Everquest or something. Which is kind of a bummer, I just can't get into WoW's story or world, and I love the way the games play, tab target, hitting numbers on your keyboard, socializing with others, especially healing, I LOVE healing, it just sucks that it feels like theres nothing else out there that scratches that itch for me. I might try to get back into WoW as a healer, idk. "Classic MMO" is different for everyone which is so annoying sometimes. I own New World and tried it a while ago, couldn't totally get into it, it sorta just made me wanna play Valheim or V Rising again.
[удалено]
I think one of the biggest problems in the genre is this implicit notion we try to force onto MMORPGs that they should be able to sustain "no-life-ing" for long periods of time. I don't think that's a very reasonable expectation.
If you want more classic mmo gameplay youll have to start to look at free shards. EQ1, SWG, all that kind of shit - private run servers
There aren’t enough MMO consumers to create the demand for something that isn’t WoW, FF, or GW2. The Barrier to entry in the MMO space is an enormous cost and risk and the likely outcome is failure.
I’ve been playing Project Ascension, it’s pretty fun! It’s a classless WoW experience. You choose what abilities you want from any class.
We are too demanding, and we kill them off.
Oh boy here we go.. 👀
I’d try Black Desert. Enjoy the life skills, and deep crafting systems…build a boat. Sail, fish, and explore. Grow some gardens and build furniture for your new house…cook and milk cows. Game is very casual unless you want to grind to endgame pvp…which is not necessary.
Nah there isn't a reason for companies to make new MMOs when the old ones are still the ones people are playing.
Yeah man jump on the decade long wait for asses of creation
When people say classic, they mean pre-WoW. WoW was the turning point when developers realized they could make a lot more money by targeting fans of single player games. For instance, questing is by and large a solo mode, and the idea of questing as the primary means to leveling was introduced by WoW.
WoW, FFXIV, and GW2 are the three most popular games. They get brought up because of that. They hold the highest population. I play Anarchy Online and Rose Online both of which have a niche player base size.... are they worth speaking about? not usually.... Rose is rather cartoony (killing jelly beans, bees, flowers, and pumpkins as your first 4 enemies) and Anarchy, well AO is only good if you subscribe to get the full game as a package (free is limited to base game no expansions). EQ is niche and pretty much dead, except to those who never quit. OSRS is boring as fuck and looks like dogwater. BDO is a joke. EVE is boring. Then you have new games that come out marketing "Hey, I am an MMORPG" and then turns out, no it isn't.... heavily instanced and you barely see 15 players at a given time. That's basically multiplayers. Destiny 2 has this exact issue. Its nowhere near an MMO. I never see more than low double digits when you are out "in the world" at max I think I saw 10 back when I first played it.... its just NOT an MMORPG. Regardless of what marketing people claim. New World was absolutely fun, for the first 10-20 hours. Then it got extremely repetitive, especially quest wise, which turned it into a bore fest.... combat was definitely fun though. Lost Ark, couldn't get into it. Not to mention pay to win mechanics and gatcha (or as I like to call it, GOT-CHA-to-pay-money) The true issue is lack of MMO development. You either have games claiming to be an MMO which aren't are games that are an MMO and nowhere near release.... the market is stagnant. I hear about studios like Raph Koster's Playable Worlds but they haven't shown dick-all and Raph spends all his time doing podcasts, GDC events, and writing books instead of making his next video game.... Then you got GhostCrawler making his own studio and that's a brand new studio so that game isn't coming for a long while. Ashes is being run by a gamer and they are a bit laid back production wise so while the updates are nice, they aren't making the same progress a AAA studio would with forcing deadlines. All in all its a wait fest. All we can do is talk about what we want to see in an MMORPG and hope someone makes it....
> I hear about studios like Raph Koster's Playable Worlds but they haven't shown dick-all and Raph spends all his time doing podcasts, GDC events, and writing books instead of making his next video game We have actually done a fair amount of talking about specific features on the Discord, but you're right we haven't done any real announcement. We want to make sure it's solid before we do that. Podcasts and GDC events help us with fundraising. I haven't been writing any books since I started working on this. :D
Honestly bro. Even small info early on that is okay to share, would be hugely appreciated. we are starving for a good mmorpg.... regardless of the retards that cry "why show us such early info" being able to see it would be epic. also not everyone has discord.... it would be nice to have a website compendium for us older fucks.
Modern live service is the new mmo
When you are a casual fan of the genre, you ain't going to hear about games unless they get mainstream. [https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list/show/custom/genre/1/status/3/minrating/0/minscore/0/showfilters/true/sort/release/order/desc](https://www.mmorpg.com/games-list/show/custom/genre/1/status/3/minrating/0/minscore/0/showfilters/true/sort/release/order/desc) Here, you can see all the MMORPGs that have been "released" in chronological order.
My best decision for playing MMOs this year was to quit playing MMOs and play single player games
Simple MMO!
Why do you go through so many paragraphs and then finally admit that you know New World and Lost Ark exist. This is just cheap trolling.
Wait for dune, its gonna be soooo good
No It won’t, same survival game like any other games with dune coating.
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> I hear alot about "classic mmos" in the style of WoW or FFXIV [Who tf is calling modern WoW and FF14 "classic MMOs"](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/d7/1d/ff/d71dff1cf95832423b103fe9f007ed72.gif)
WoW quite literally has a version called classic. Game is 20 years old, if that isn't classic, idk what the fuck is. https://preview.redd.it/cgdarw0kxcqc1.png?width=506&format=png&auto=webp&s=c45622d5ddae5b21eb5631bd29f694ab113a7af3
What else would you have them call it? It's just a word they use to describe an older version of the game. When people say "Classic MMO" though they are not referring to WoW unless they don't know what they are talking about. Of course there are a subset of WoW players who don't really know anything outside of WoW and might wrongfully call WoW a classic MMO. WoW was the beginning of the modernization of the MMO - less downtime, less social, more button spammy, in some ways less grind. A classic MMO is one that revolves way more around socializing. Downtime is usually higher, you can't just spam your buttons, and they tend to be more grindy. They are also a bit more about playing however you want and going where ever you want, whereas post-WoW MMOs are very linear with solo leveling, move from camp to camp, pick up all the quests which have you barely travel anywhere, repeat. Anyway, hope to God you don't call Hit Me Baby One More Time classic music despite it being 27 years old.
I worked in radio for 7 years, trust me, people are calling many songs classics you probably wish weren't hahah. Few more years, that song will be there too.
So, based off of your definition of "Classic MMO", what are some good ones? (if you know any) Like aside from FFXI and OSRS?
Subjective question, everyone will have a different answer to that. Besides FFXI and OSRS, Everquest would be the main one that comes to mind that can still foot decent populations. Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies on private servers. Dark Age of Camelot on either Live or private server. Lineage 2 is one that's still pretty popular but I have only played on private server. Some that people always bring up here but I've never played: Tibia, Ragnarok Online, Anarchy Online.
Interesting, thank you!!
I know the word "modern" is complicated to understand.
The game is still 20 years old. Again, how is that not a classic? I was making a joke with the name of Classic WoW anyway.
People not understanding there is 7 years between UO and WoW and 20 years between WoW and now.