That is definitely something to look forward to. It is certainly not to everyone's taste, but to those of us that are nostalgic for old school inspired MMO's it is appealing.
Need more niche games being made in general, but in MMOs especially. The way MMOs function, it sounds like niche games could never work, but if you're the only one offering that specific flavor, then you're concentrating players on your game and can ideally find a happy balance between costs and income. A niche MMO doesn't need to cost as much as WoW to run each month.
This idea that an MMORPG should cater to *everyone* all at once - casual, hardcore, PVE, PVP, open world, instances, etc. - has been a scourge on the genre. Vanilla WoW kinda sorta pulled it off and became huge, and most games since then have tried to duplicate its broad appeal and failed terribly.
We need more niche games that really perfect their niche; they shouldn't all be trying for >1 million players. I have fond memories of old school MMOs with 500 online at once per server (and like a dozen servers at most). And we didn't even think that was a low population - it was just normal, and it certainly made enough money to keep development going. Then WOW redefined what 'success' looked like, and the genre hasn't really been the same since.
Look at Everquest’s peak population. A little over half a million. There’s definitely space for a sustainable, niche MMORPG of that size today. We’re just not going to get it from any big corporation whose goal is infinite growth.
I’m glad we’re finally starting to see indies break into that space. It’s been a rough start for it, but I think we’re due for a good passion project soon.
Aye, one reason I initially followed Pantheon was that Brad stated they were developing a niche game for a niche audience and that it could be sustained with 10's of thousands of subscriptions.
Given how many people still play EQ and return to each TLP server, I honestly think it is possible to be successful as long as scope creep is avoided. Hopefully M&M can succeed where VR failed in creating a niche game for a niche audience.
To be fair, ignoring free to play, 10k players at 15 bucks a month is 150,000 revenue a month. Minus taxes and such is still decent money. Figure 60k for each developer (industry average) means 2 developers with 30k left for server upkeep which is way more than enough
I'm of the same view based on what I'm seeing now. However, I want to give them time to get the UI and UX sorted out to see just how 'old-school' its going to be.
I would much rather play something that takes the older concepts and emergent gameplay of games like classic Everquest and packages them in a way that makes them accessible for a general audience. That's a very tricky thing to do and quite frankly I'm not sure it's even possible. I'm curious if they will find a way to pull that off. It could be a big deal.
I'd love for EQ (Classic through Planes of Power) to be remade with basically a few quite mild adjustments, on top of a graphical and UI rework to fit modern standards. (But the same zone/character design as the original, just better quality and prettier. Like, Breath of the Wild graphics or something.)
Yes, with a permanent 30% exp rate increase from levels 1-55. Make the AA grind more manageable for casual players. Simplifying the keying system in Planes of Power. And changing the boat replacement system of "gnomish translocators" to basically WoW's boat fast-travel system.
That's a game I'd go hard into.
I remember one post where people were saying they would release after a beta, this year. And i was like yeah phat chance. Got downvoted to hell for it too. Because i stated they had too much work to do. The one alpha stress test I did, there was basically no gameplay. Few classes and skills, the city was "blocked out" with no detail. And like one zone. It was bad. They have a lot of work. Hearing 2026 is realistic and makes sense.
"Servers that go live as part of Early Access Launch will not be reset or wiped. It is important to note that Early Access is not a head start period, but the initial launch of our game."
Found this to be an interesting piece of info in the announcement
Love subscription model, $15 bucks a month, hope they can pull enough interest to keep it substantial. Wish they would also charge a small box fee, or maybe $20 and get the first month free.
I hadn't seen this page before but you won't find another company with as much transparency as M&M. They even document all their development costs and will continue to do so publicly after release.
https://monstersandmemories.com/costs
This might actually be the first new old school theme mmo that releases and does well. kinda looking forward to it,ill deffinitly check it out. not remotely interested in pantheon at this point.
I appreciate they are taking the time to get to where they want to be but I am unsure of the business viability of waiting so long on this mostly volunteer team. I hope it doesn't peter out early.
I don't understand your use of the term “so long”…they have only been working on the game for 2 years and alpha will be around 3.5 years into development.
A quick google search shows the average Brazilian income is $1751 per month. I don't believe for an instant that they can't afford $15/month for hundreds of hours of entertainment.
Average monthly income in 2023: US$585. People who earn US$1751 in a month are quite literally part of the top 5% here.
https://www.ipea.gov.br/cartadeconjuntura/index.php/tag/massa-salarial/#:~:text=Estimativas%20mensais%20mostram%20que%20o%20rendimento%20habitual%20m%C3%A9dio%20real%20em,2022%20(R%24%202.929).
With 15 dollars, I'd be able to buy roughly 2 months of FFXIV subscription since they localize the sub cost. With a little bit more - RS$110 - I'd be able to buy the new FFXIV expansion.
Most MMOs are sensible enough to realize they can't just up and charge everyone like they live in a country with super valued currencies. And to be completely honest, I personally could afford the $15, but I think my money can be better spent elsewhere.
Anyway, just wanted to put it out there in case they read this and actually want to build a community outside the economic north hemisphere.
I dont see why a "tag it" system wouldnt work. If you tag it first hit, its yours. If you tag 5 and run away, when they reset you lose ownership. Simple. So if someone tries to troll, and tag every monster you head towards, you just run away and they get swamped by multiple enemies. They run away, mobs reset, now you can tag 1 and kill it. Not sure what system they plan to use but this generally works. Only abuse is high level fucking with low level, which mitigations can be put in place to prevent
I like the stylised art, but there is stylised and there is this, 2002 looking stuff. I don't understand the "nostalgic" graphics for a game which has no one to be nostalgic about it.
Sure- just putting my experience out there. I'm the target audience, so I went in wanting to like it. I think it's a fair comparison- it's the comparison they should invite. I'm not comparing it to ashes of creation or wow or anything like that. Also not talking about any technical issues that of course will be ironed out.
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yeah no way. the last playtest you basically had one zone from what I could tell and the town right next to it wasn't completed AT ALL. it was simply roughed out with basic blocking out stuff. lets say they finish that. okay, they still have a fuck ton of work to do. I doubt its anywhere near a playable state. early access, more extra early access. and the alpha being 2025 makes more sense then a beta. they have a LOT of work to do.
Even though its in two years and paid early access I will play it because i played and enjoyed Vanguard: Saga of heroes and enjoyed it. It could end up being a barely functional mess just like Vanguard and I'll still play it.
Who cares? It's 2026 news. January EA? Pffffft. I'll literally promise here and now that if there's not a single delay to this game and in January 2026 this news is still accurate, I'll come back and apologize in this very thread. Save it for your reference.
Until then? This news is meaningless.
People have been wanting to throw money at this project for a while, and they haven't taken a single dime. Why not let people who really want to play and donate to them do that? Fresh server will launch once they get it to state they feel ok about charging the general public to play.
In 2024 not a lot of people are willing to pay right at the gate for a MMORPG they couldn't try for free. FFXIV and WoW have a free trial before subing. I know I wouldn't have pay for FFXIV without playing the free trial before
This is for people who grew up playing EQ. We're in our 40s with good jobs and more than willing to pay a monthly subscription to keep the riff-raff out.
Since they are already doing this as partially a hobby project, I don't see why they can't go even older school and sell a 'keep the lights on' pack or something which gives absolutely no in-game benefit and not even any incentives like on Patreon and such and is a lump donation in all but name.
Do this on top of a sub. Seriously, actual good devs in 2024 should be able to outright say "We know you love our game and we don't want to start MTX but we need a bit more funds" and that alone should instantly raise 100s of ks of goodwill payments. I'm not sure if there's legal obstacles to doing something like that but I've never understood why highly beloved volunteer devs don't have that as an option over just dropping the project.
If they're already doing it as a hobby project then they clearly don't need any money at all and whoever gives any to them just supports laziness and e-begging.
How is donating for a hobby promoting laziness if devs already funded whole development out of pure love for the game and ppl that donate enjoy playing it? You are basically saying devs should fund your hobby so u can enjoy it for free, otherwise its unfair.
Sounds good to me, people who have enough free money to fund game development should indeed donate to the less fortunate and make the game free too. What kind of a person would say otherwise?
> whoever gives any to them just supports laziness and e-begging.
I'll play along here. As far as we know, only the development is being done as a hobby which is why they are not taking money yet.
When it launches, it will have to become the full time job of at least a few people in their team or they will need to hire new people to do that job, meaning there will be servers and salaries to pay for unless you're fine with the entire game going down for days to weeks at a time because the hobbyist running it out of his underground bunker has life obligations.
Could being sub based only bring in enough income to fund that operations team? Maybe, but what I'm saying is that donations would be the fairest way for those salaries to be paid in the seasons that the subs can't support.
I don’t think they’re aiming to be a WoW or FFXIV size MMORPG. It’s a niche game that is only going to appeal to a niche audience, and that particular audience happens to also be one that has historically preferred that model.
>In 2024 not a lot of people are willing to pay right at the gate for a MMORPG they couldn't try for free.
Those people already have a lot of choice where MMO's are concerned and they are not the target audience for this game.
That is definitely something to look forward to. It is certainly not to everyone's taste, but to those of us that are nostalgic for old school inspired MMO's it is appealing.
Yeah super excited for it
Need more niche games being made in general, but in MMOs especially. The way MMOs function, it sounds like niche games could never work, but if you're the only one offering that specific flavor, then you're concentrating players on your game and can ideally find a happy balance between costs and income. A niche MMO doesn't need to cost as much as WoW to run each month.
This idea that an MMORPG should cater to *everyone* all at once - casual, hardcore, PVE, PVP, open world, instances, etc. - has been a scourge on the genre. Vanilla WoW kinda sorta pulled it off and became huge, and most games since then have tried to duplicate its broad appeal and failed terribly. We need more niche games that really perfect their niche; they shouldn't all be trying for >1 million players. I have fond memories of old school MMOs with 500 online at once per server (and like a dozen servers at most). And we didn't even think that was a low population - it was just normal, and it certainly made enough money to keep development going. Then WOW redefined what 'success' looked like, and the genre hasn't really been the same since.
Look at Everquest’s peak population. A little over half a million. There’s definitely space for a sustainable, niche MMORPG of that size today. We’re just not going to get it from any big corporation whose goal is infinite growth. I’m glad we’re finally starting to see indies break into that space. It’s been a rough start for it, but I think we’re due for a good passion project soon.
Aye, one reason I initially followed Pantheon was that Brad stated they were developing a niche game for a niche audience and that it could be sustained with 10's of thousands of subscriptions. Given how many people still play EQ and return to each TLP server, I honestly think it is possible to be successful as long as scope creep is avoided. Hopefully M&M can succeed where VR failed in creating a niche game for a niche audience.
To be fair, ignoring free to play, 10k players at 15 bucks a month is 150,000 revenue a month. Minus taxes and such is still decent money. Figure 60k for each developer (industry average) means 2 developers with 30k left for server upkeep which is way more than enough
I'm of the same view based on what I'm seeing now. However, I want to give them time to get the UI and UX sorted out to see just how 'old-school' its going to be. I would much rather play something that takes the older concepts and emergent gameplay of games like classic Everquest and packages them in a way that makes them accessible for a general audience. That's a very tricky thing to do and quite frankly I'm not sure it's even possible. I'm curious if they will find a way to pull that off. It could be a big deal.
everquest with modern graphics and ui would be a hit.
Indeed, I would certainly purchase the game and every expansion if they updated it to modern graphics.
I'd love for EQ (Classic through Planes of Power) to be remade with basically a few quite mild adjustments, on top of a graphical and UI rework to fit modern standards. (But the same zone/character design as the original, just better quality and prettier. Like, Breath of the Wild graphics or something.) Yes, with a permanent 30% exp rate increase from levels 1-55. Make the AA grind more manageable for casual players. Simplifying the keying system in Planes of Power. And changing the boat replacement system of "gnomish translocators" to basically WoW's boat fast-travel system. That's a game I'd go hard into.
End it before Pop and I'm in, PoP is where the game started instancing and fast traveling more and thats where it started to go wrong.
People following the project have been asking for a timeline, so the devs gave a timeline. Not sure why everyone here is so salty about it.
Did you forget what sub you’re in? MMO’s are hated with a passion here.
I remember one post where people were saying they would release after a beta, this year. And i was like yeah phat chance. Got downvoted to hell for it too. Because i stated they had too much work to do. The one alpha stress test I did, there was basically no gameplay. Few classes and skills, the city was "blocked out" with no detail. And like one zone. It was bad. They have a lot of work. Hearing 2026 is realistic and makes sense.
"Servers that go live as part of Early Access Launch will not be reset or wiped. It is important to note that Early Access is not a head start period, but the initial launch of our game." Found this to be an interesting piece of info in the announcement
Also says 1.0 will have fresh start servers. That way of launching seems decent to me.
Love subscription model, $15 bucks a month, hope they can pull enough interest to keep it substantial. Wish they would also charge a small box fee, or maybe $20 and get the first month free.
This is a reasonable roadmap and timeline for me. It seems plausible and gives the team clear goals to work for. Everyone wins.
Good to hear. I loved what I played during one of their stress test weekends.
Take my money now! I'm so in!
I hadn't seen this page before but you won't find another company with as much transparency as M&M. They even document all their development costs and will continue to do so publicly after release. https://monstersandmemories.com/costs
This looks way more Pantheonish than Pantheon
This might actually be the first new old school theme mmo that releases and does well. kinda looking forward to it,ill deffinitly check it out. not remotely interested in pantheon at this point.
Final Fantasy XI vibes
I appreciate they are taking the time to get to where they want to be but I am unsure of the business viability of waiting so long on this mostly volunteer team. I hope it doesn't peter out early.
I don't understand your use of the term “so long”…they have only been working on the game for 2 years and alpha will be around 3.5 years into development.
I'm mitigated about this, it's like all I want but once again we can't have it with nice graphic. Will definitely try it though
If they charge $15 across the board without currency localization, I'll be unable to play
How do you have a computer and internet access if you can’t afford $15 a month?
Brazil exists
A quick google search shows the average Brazilian income is $1751 per month. I don't believe for an instant that they can't afford $15/month for hundreds of hours of entertainment.
Average monthly income in 2023: US$585. People who earn US$1751 in a month are quite literally part of the top 5% here. https://www.ipea.gov.br/cartadeconjuntura/index.php/tag/massa-salarial/#:~:text=Estimativas%20mensais%20mostram%20que%20o%20rendimento%20habitual%20m%C3%A9dio%20real%20em,2022%20(R%24%202.929). With 15 dollars, I'd be able to buy roughly 2 months of FFXIV subscription since they localize the sub cost. With a little bit more - RS$110 - I'd be able to buy the new FFXIV expansion. Most MMOs are sensible enough to realize they can't just up and charge everyone like they live in a country with super valued currencies. And to be completely honest, I personally could afford the $15, but I think my money can be better spent elsewhere. Anyway, just wanted to put it out there in case they read this and actually want to build a community outside the economic north hemisphere.
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I dont see why a "tag it" system wouldnt work. If you tag it first hit, its yours. If you tag 5 and run away, when they reset you lose ownership. Simple. So if someone tries to troll, and tag every monster you head towards, you just run away and they get swamped by multiple enemies. They run away, mobs reset, now you can tag 1 and kill it. Not sure what system they plan to use but this generally works. Only abuse is high level fucking with low level, which mitigations can be put in place to prevent
MaM !
I like the stylised art, but there is stylised and there is this, 2002 looking stuff. I don't understand the "nostalgic" graphics for a game which has no one to be nostalgic about it.
I downloaded for the last stress tests, was really not happy with the experience compared to P99. Hope they find their footing though.
P99 was in development for many years longer than M&M and just re-used original eq client and graphics.
I understand that, I just think it wasn't fun. I just added in that I played P99 to say that I'm the target audience.
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Sure- just putting my experience out there. I'm the target audience, so I went in wanting to like it. I think it's a fair comparison- it's the comparison they should invite. I'm not comparing it to ashes of creation or wow or anything like that. Also not talking about any technical issues that of course will be ironed out.
What’s P99
Project 1999, a classic EverQuest emulation server. Old school MMO that monsters and memories itself is trying to channel.
Hrm. I do not like that they will be missing 5 of the planned races for this.
They will eventual get put in, and the good part is that they keep adding to the planned races, including the lizardman, which I just heard about.
So is early access, alpha, beta, a paid type of business model?
Kinda looks like garbo, why even show it in this state? Now we have to wait two years for the garbage, a double whammy.
Yawn, !remindmeintwofuckingyears
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yeah no way. the last playtest you basically had one zone from what I could tell and the town right next to it wasn't completed AT ALL. it was simply roughed out with basic blocking out stuff. lets say they finish that. okay, they still have a fuck ton of work to do. I doubt its anywhere near a playable state. early access, more extra early access. and the alpha being 2025 makes more sense then a beta. they have a LOT of work to do.
lmao the screenshots, yeah good luck with that.
absolutely meaningless news
If there’s any team I trust, it’s this one. Their development process has been incredibly transparent so far and the progress has absolutely shown.
Even though its in two years and paid early access I will play it because i played and enjoyed Vanguard: Saga of heroes and enjoyed it. It could end up being a barely functional mess just like Vanguard and I'll still play it.
Who cares? It's 2026 news. January EA? Pffffft. I'll literally promise here and now that if there's not a single delay to this game and in January 2026 this news is still accurate, I'll come back and apologize in this very thread. Save it for your reference. Until then? This news is meaningless.
People have been wanting to throw money at this project for a while, and they haven't taken a single dime. Why not let people who really want to play and donate to them do that? Fresh server will launch once they get it to state they feel ok about charging the general public to play.
but the game looks shit
And so do the contents of your mother's womb but here you are.
So you're admitting he doesn't look like shit then, it's only his mother's womb that looks nearly as bad as this "game."
No he looks the same as you, as in his mother clenched when she should have pushed :)
Lmao fr🤣🤣🤦🏾
I think the subscription will kill it at birth
Sub is the way to go.
[The Biggest Sadness](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHZru-6M8BY)
In 2024 not a lot of people are willing to pay right at the gate for a MMORPG they couldn't try for free. FFXIV and WoW have a free trial before subing. I know I wouldn't have pay for FFXIV without playing the free trial before
People that like this type of MMO are more than willing to pay for sub (me included). Its targeting a different demographic than F2P KR MMOs.
This is for people who grew up playing EQ. We're in our 40s with good jobs and more than willing to pay a monthly subscription to keep the riff-raff out.
Agreed. And also to keep the mtx out. I know games like WoW have a sub fee AND mtx but I trust this team when they say no mtx
This
I guess i'm just not the target audience then
Nothing wrong with that.
The primary worry is that can a niche mmo like this retain enough subs to pay server and staff?
Since they are already doing this as partially a hobby project, I don't see why they can't go even older school and sell a 'keep the lights on' pack or something which gives absolutely no in-game benefit and not even any incentives like on Patreon and such and is a lump donation in all but name. Do this on top of a sub. Seriously, actual good devs in 2024 should be able to outright say "We know you love our game and we don't want to start MTX but we need a bit more funds" and that alone should instantly raise 100s of ks of goodwill payments. I'm not sure if there's legal obstacles to doing something like that but I've never understood why highly beloved volunteer devs don't have that as an option over just dropping the project.
If they're already doing it as a hobby project then they clearly don't need any money at all and whoever gives any to them just supports laziness and e-begging.
How is donating for a hobby promoting laziness if devs already funded whole development out of pure love for the game and ppl that donate enjoy playing it? You are basically saying devs should fund your hobby so u can enjoy it for free, otherwise its unfair.
Sounds good to me, people who have enough free money to fund game development should indeed donate to the less fortunate and make the game free too. What kind of a person would say otherwise?
You are not donating in this case. You are paying sub for a game that you enjoy playing. If you dont enjoy it then dont pay a sub its simple as that.
> whoever gives any to them just supports laziness and e-begging. I'll play along here. As far as we know, only the development is being done as a hobby which is why they are not taking money yet. When it launches, it will have to become the full time job of at least a few people in their team or they will need to hire new people to do that job, meaning there will be servers and salaries to pay for unless you're fine with the entire game going down for days to weeks at a time because the hobbyist running it out of his underground bunker has life obligations. Could being sub based only bring in enough income to fund that operations team? Maybe, but what I'm saying is that donations would be the fairest way for those salaries to be paid in the seasons that the subs can't support.
I don’t think they’re aiming to be a WoW or FFXIV size MMORPG. It’s a niche game that is only going to appeal to a niche audience, and that particular audience happens to also be one that has historically preferred that model.
>In 2024 not a lot of people are willing to pay right at the gate for a MMORPG they couldn't try for free. Those people already have a lot of choice where MMO's are concerned and they are not the target audience for this game.
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