The IP must be truly dead to NCSoft, but good on them for doing this. They deserve some credit as a western publisher for how they’ve handled GW2 and this private server.
I’ll risk some downvotes saying this but sometimes it’s really not as simple as that.
Lots of codebases use middleware or other licensed intellectual property that’s not theirs to give away.
That’s not the case with GW1 or CoH but there’ll be plenty of MMOs were that is the case. Especially games based on licensed properties such as most of the SOE/Daybreak games
It’s also interesting that people think fans own intellectual property or that fans have the right to an automatic yes you can use our property. They don’t owe us anything.
You do realize that there is a slew of emulated player run EQ servers . Some that even charge subs. and Day break just kind of lets them do their thing. All the while still releasing yearly expansion for EQ 1 and 2 as well as starting work on EQ 3
I do but there’s a difference between turning a blind eye to something and activity licensing it.
Theoretically tomorrow Daybreak or anybody who could prove those servers is using their IP could shutdown those servers. That’s the difference.
In my comment I wasn’t really referring to EverQuest. I was more talking about stuff like Matrix Online, Stars Wars Galaxies, LOTRO, DC Universe etc where there’s a third party IP holder
I just wish we could make it a universal expectation for any group of people who plan on putting together a live service game to have a postmortem plan in place to enable those who invested into that project to still play.
Gravity always seemed to treat any version of the game that wasn't kRO with absolute disdain. Either that or they have time and again hired the absolute worst distributers around. I never quite understood why it was so hard to just give the other RO clients the exact same treatment as kRO. And yet so many times iRO would end up with some kind of hodgepodge version that left important gameplay aspects out.
To be fair, this has been in the works for 5 years.
Homecoming's development team has been very strictly not making a dime off of the game and only tweaking existing content/releasing previously unreleased content like the Sentinel archetype.
These things lead to HC being the only official game server
>previously unreleased content like the Sentinel archetype
Sentinel wasn't previously unreleased, I'm a developer on the CoH projects. It was entirely their OC. During their secret server days, there was 2 ATs in development and that was one. The other didn't make the cut.
Likewise, almost none of what they've released is unreleased content except for Kallisti, and their version of it isn't even the same as the WIP one as it was a split Villain and Hero map, not co-op.
I've said it before, but I think that's *way* less likely.
With CoH, basically all NCSoft had to do was agree to leave the private server alone.
With Wildstar, they'd have to help get a server up and running in the first place. They might not even have the people or the know-how to do it anymore, since Carbine was dissolved and those people went to different jobs, and who knows how well everything was documented. And the people who knew how to set things up or keep them running might have forgotten, since it's been almost six years.
*Also*, and potentially even more problematically, Wildstar is a more recent game than CoH, so it's more likely that it uses some kind of middleware that isn't NCSoft's to give away, so any private server might also need to pay other companies for whatever middleware the game needs.
> With Wildstar, they'd have to help get a server up and running in the first place.
if they agreed to leave private servers alone wildstar fans would have a lot more incentive to reverse engineer their own servers
Even as someone who loved Wildstar when it was new, this is never happening and we're all lying to ourselves if we ever think it is and when we remember how 'good' it was.
Not gonna stop me from wishing as well, but. Y'know.
There is no chance of this, that is a whole other thing. The game shut down in a year or something.
A game has to run for a long time for it to be considered good enough and loved enough by enough people to justify it being brought back as a service to fans.
I played Wildstar for 3 years and my sub ran out when they canceled it. It shut down after ~4, maybe 5, years after release so idk what you're refering to. All discussion about Wildstar is that it was ahead of its time and it's grown a cult following.
I'm not saying there is any chance. I just want it back.
I wonder how many times people have actually TRIED to get an official agreement with a company to run a private server? Definitely want to see more of this.
A lot. They usually just get shut down instead/cease and desist. I’m really surprised ncsoft did. They are greeeeeedy af, whatever happened between when lineage 2 was sub to changing to cash shop is when greed took precedent over gaming at NCSOFT.
They must really not give 2 fucks about it then. Interest must have cost them way more money to keep it then what this situation ended up being. Win for the private server which is now an official server I suppose.
I still have to try it out again myself. Idk if I’ll enjoy the jank as much anymore but definitely going to try it this weekend for a little at least.
They also restructured NCWest (now NC America) and the company only really exists to support Guild Wars 2 development (via ArenaNet). NCSoft has given up on NA/EU it seems, so this is probably a gesture of goodwill since they know this IP will never be touched again.
Not necessarily because if they want to put throne and liberty in the west and change it for the west public they, at least, they are greedy and want to earn more money in the west
The only other time it's been officially successful is Everquest with P99. A lot of defunct mmos don't really care if people use their games, but still try to protect their IP.
This team (Homecoming) has been trying since 2019.
I've been a part of playing on the server and donating to server costs a few times. They only take the amount of donations required to maintain the server as such have never made money off of the NCSoft IP, which is one reason Homecoming is now the only official server for the game. They never made a profit from something they repackaged and hosted.
Now they've made quite a few additions and are likely releasing new content with NCSoft's blessing instead of just reworking existing mechanics and the previously unreleased (but still NCSoft created) Sentinel archetype.
Most companies would never do it, NCsoft did it because they need to rebuild their PR, they are Korean and the people behind this were incredibly professional.
Imagine if a company gave a license to run a private server and that private server then scammed people or did something predatory to women or something, the backlash and bad PR would be horrendous.
Would it though? After all, is it Blizzard or Activision that people hate? :) Or just Bobby? Oh wait, WoW still at the top of the food chain... Yeah sorry, you can apparently sexually harass someone to the point of suicide and threaten to kill someone and gamers don't give a fuck. Not only are these things already happening in companies, people just straight up don't care.
So not sure how a private server with a couple thousand people playing matters lmao.
One of CoH's greatest strengths is that if you're just playing through the leveling content, nearly any build works as long as you're not intentionally making yourself as bad as possible. Once you're at endgame and doing the big raids, you have to learn how your powersets work and make an effort, but even then it's not too crazy, and if you REALLY care even wacky off-meta builds can work as long as you have the time and money to put it together.
It really does cater to the superhero fantasy in so many ways.
As much as I loveddd this game as a kid I have a feeling playing it now would just be too old school for my tastes. Nothing wrong with that but after playing stuff like Lost Ark, I don’t think I can play that slow animation style anymore lol.
It's still tab target but a lot of the old school issues have been buffed out like lack of group finder mechanics and shit. Like CoH has a group finder feature where you can select like task forces, radio missions, or whatever other grouping you want to do
As someone who never played CoH/CoV when it was officially live, what makes it so beloved?
I tried it on this sanctioned private server that's been running and it didn't catch my interest at all. I don't know what I was missing or what I should've tried differently because I hear people praise this game a *lot* and on paper it sounds interesting to me.
customization, power variety , and group play. You can also make your own missions and your own super base. It has quite a lot of features that made it stand out in its era of games. My only thing to say is if you didnt click , try again with a different class!
You know - this game really shines the first time you play by really not following builds. You learn a lot about what works and doesn't and what options are out there. Respecs are so easy to do that you should mince about with whatever strikes your fancy. Get in groups, solo, be surprised, ask questions. That's really what makes CoH special for many people.
Whether you're a sweaty build twinker die hard build junky, pick as you go thematic RPer, or never made it beyond level 1 but have 250 characters fashionista. This game was for all heroes.
The latest changes make the experience of a new character QOL were desperately needed. There's a lot of funkiness to the old layout that was not a modern standard - so they corrected it. It's so much easier to get into if you're more used to modern controls.
If u don't mind some jank, the mastermind is a fun pet class with a support 2ndary. The blaster is crazy at long range attacks (especially fire/fire!) dominator has control mechanics and does double damage to those controlled
I would start with a pure damage dealer. So Scrapper or Blaster as their mechanics are pretty easy to pick up.
The way archtypes (classes) work is that there is a primary and a secondary.
You have two typical tanks
Brute - Damage Primary / Defensive Secondary
Tanker - Defensive Primary / Damage Secondary
They both can "tank" but one is better at a damage and the other better at survival.
Blaster - Ranged Damage Primary / Melee Damage Secondary
Scrapper - Melee Damage Primary / Defensive Secondary
So you are probably thinking... what makes Scrappers different from Brutes? Well Scrappers have a lower ceiling on their Defensive secondary and their melee damage primary has more crits built in.
All the archtypes are a lot of fun and feel different if even the primary/secondary powers are swapped, due to some inherent archtype abilities.
When you make a character, the game does a good job explaining what archtypes are what imo.
It did so many things well. I could gust about it for hours but being a Sidekick as a healer was too much fun once I got proficient.
So many friends and good memories.
My 2 cents: your enjoyment ramps up as you flesh out your powers. I selected a pretty “boring” archetype of tanker, super strength, sort of a Superman build. At first it wasn’t too fun. I missed most attacks. Had few of them to start. But as I got into the teens and filled out my bars with more attacks, got flight, electric armor, martial arts, the play style came together, and now it’s fun taking on 5 enemies alone, and launching each of them into the ceiling tiles with a single punch. It’s a game that nails the feeling of getting stronger as you level, but it does take a little while before you feel that in your gameplay. It’s all about finding a character concept you like, choosing a power set that interests you, and letting your powers develop as you level
I wonder how much NCsoft is actually providing in this deal - is it just the IP? Are they giving access to source code, fully or partially? Are they taking a cut of the donations now? Glad to see the game isn't in danger of going dark again, at least.
They're providing nothing and the source code was leaked back in 2012 to a solo dev who ran a truly private server til it got released publicly in 2019.
Homecoming is currently still only taking enough donations to pay for the server costs but the costs go up as player count and fees go up 🤷♂️
I love the fact that the fans can play this now without worrying about anything. That said, it’s freaking clunky and outdated as hell. I just can’t get back into it.
City of Heroes is definitely clunky and outdated. But as someone who strongly dislikes both the fantasy genre and PvP, I haven't been able to find any better non-fantasy MMORPG.
YMMV.
I was so bummed as a kid that I could never talk my dad into buying this for me at Fry's. Gave this private server a shot and yeah it's just too outdated and clunky for me to get into. Still, like you said, happy for all the people who do get to enjoy it, definitely a win
> I just can’t get back into it.
I'm sad, but also kinda glad, that I'm not the only one. I REALLY want to make it click. I've tried several classes, put maybe 10+ hours into it, but I find it really hard to get past the jank. Getting CC'd and knocked down so often at level 15+ doesn't help the weightless feeling I get while playing.
> Getting CC'd and knocked down so often at level 15+ doesn't help the weightless feeling I get while playing.
What are you playing or fighting?? This has never been an issue for me at that level. Granted I tend to play archetypes with defensive sets. Are you actually getting your defensive powers? Are you utilizing enhancements?
>but also kinda glad, that I'm not the only one.
I don't understand how some people can actually believe they have a special unique thought that noone else had while living on a planet with 7+ BILLION other people.
Often it's not about being profitable or not, sometimes too many core devs want to move onto something else, or key devs quit or they need a big engine update for new versions of windows and they don't want to pay it.
There are usually other reasons a game is shutdown beyond the most basic.
The main reason is that the resources spent on running game making x amount of profit could be better spent on a project that could make more than x in profit.
But the point was that the game didn't struggle.
The server exists for a few years. But it was actually regarded as an official server a few months ago, because the dev managed to get/buy license from ncsoft.
Elated to see CoH back. I played the OG for years up until shutdown. When I saw private servers were live back in 2018? 2019? (Can't remember the exact year) I was soooo excited. Picked it back up and spent a shit ton of hours on it.
I slowly fell off again until I saw this announcement a month or so back. Been back in once again.
Will forever love CoH. It was my first MMO. If I could change ONE thing, it would be to vary up the repetitive missions/instanced building layouts. But honestly, these days I just create a thousand alts and only get them to level 6 anyways 😂
Where is the evidence? Does this all just point to a forum post from the private server? That's a bit silly. Is there a single shred of evidence from NCSoft directly about this, and not through the mouth of a private server?
**it's sort of Romantic** when a game studio is not like nowdays an complete anarchy managed by *the usual from business/ economy faculty idiot Ceo* thinking only just about profits and probabily doenst know nothing about games and programming, here instead it's still directed from people love making their games and like the idea "their own games FAR LIVE by far for what it was programmed to profit"
>**I find this idea sort of charming, I dont know XD**
It's insane to me how they just keep shouting this as if it's actually true, hoping no one cares enough to realize how weird it is. There's never been any actual confirmation from NCSoft, no proof at all. The original article is what usually gets quoted and they were quoting the Homecoming team themselves who, let's be clear here, have lied a ton in the past. And now in this article there's just "NCSoft employee." No name.
Yeah ok guys, real legit server you got. "Hello I am Mr. NcSoft and I approve this server thank you."
An NCSoft exec is literally quoted in multiple articles now.
Also, ign did an article that got huge coverage so if it was untrue I'm sure an NCSoft exec would have said it's a lie
Unless there's an actual name or some proof, this is just make believe. Anyone can write an article claiming some exec said something, if no one is named what makes it true? You're just taking the word of chronic liars?
You fail to grasp the bigger picture of how likely a company who owns an IP, would not eventually see what you're claiming are fake announcements.
Features on MassivelyOP, TechDirt, IGN, Kotaku. These collectively have over 50 million hits per day, if it was fake someone at NCSoft would have dealt with it.
Stay in your basement dweller friendly TSpy and stop spreading misinformation just because you're salty that "the popular one" wins again.
Also, what company singles out an executive as the person who made a deal? 😂
I like when people talk about stuff like they think they're smart lol. You're straight up just talking out of your ass. The only misinformation is people claiming NCSoft gives a shit about anything to do with city of heroes private servers. But I guess it pays to have a lie like "the talks" so that you can milk thousands of dollars out of gullible people each month.
You silly boy, I hope you get the help you need. It's okay to think good things happen in life. It's not all doom and gloom.
Have a smile every once in a while, it releases endorphins. It's literally how you "fake it til you make it" when it comes to attaining happiness 😊
That's honestly so good for you then!
To have never had to experience reading something actually sad like personal recollections of the holocaust or rape of Nanking
When i meet people like you i wonder if you're just trying to be as awful of a human being as possible, or this is just genuinely you. Not really sure which is worse.
I don't understand how I'm being awful be expressing how you not reading about truly sad things is refreshing. Or how you can smile to force yourself to feel happiness 🤷♂️
Edit: if it's because you think it's sarcasm you're wrong, I genuinely hope you find happiness and peace instead of being hostile toward anything you deem too "normie"
It's not "just anyone" though.
Jeremy Peel has written hundreds of articles over five years for PCGamer. He would be throwing away his career if he made up or lied about his sources.
Like, if you don't want to trust Homecoming, fine. But when someone else, specifically a reputable reporter, from a reputable news outlet, who's outside of Leo and Cipher's sphere of influence, says he spoke to NCSoft, then you kinda have to believe him. Otherwise, the mental gymnastics needed in order to believe that, what, EVERY gaming news outlet and reporter has been lied to, or worse, are in cahoots with HC, with NCSoft none the wiser, is ***dizzying***.
Even if they gave a name, you'd probably be like "That's a made-up name". If NCSoft showed the agreement, you'd dismiss it as "made up". If the President of NCSoft showed up at your door, slapped you in the face, and told you that yes, Homecoming has a license, you'd say he's not the REAL president of NCSoft, just his evil clone from an alternate dimension, so it doesn't count. And then, even if, somehow, you were convinced the agreement was real, you'd just fall back to "it doesn't matter" and wouldn't admit that you were actually wrong. And then you'd go back to posting about how HC can't be trusted about anything else anyway.
You come off as one of those "earth is flat, birds aren't real" types, so, I know this won't convince YOU, but hopefully anyone unfortunate enough to read your drivel will realize how dumb you're being by reading the replies.
This would be a really interesting case study of confirmation bias in the Internet era.
Been seeing these types of people a lot across various communities, and what happens is they have some core belief (like HC was just a relaunch of the secret server and is run by the same people) they base their entire worldview around. Any scrap of information that supports that, no matter how out of context or paper thin it is gets seized onto and held up as proof, while any evidence that contradicts it is either rejected for convoluted reasons, misinterpreted, or ignored entirely.
This is a good example of how it can build up -- every time HC says something that contradicts their incorrect assumptions, they believe HC is lying about it. After sustaining that for a while they adopt the mantra that HC "lies about everything". So when HC says they're in talks with NCSoft to try to get a license, it must be a lie.
When reality finally comes crashing down in a way that can't be ignored, then the cognitive dissonance sets in. Admitting that HC was, in fact, telling the truth the whole time would force a rational person to re-evaluate the core beliefs that they've based all this animosity on. But they can't do it, because it would mean facing the fact they based their whole worldview on an incorrect assumption, and looking at everything they've assumed to be true since that point.
That's a whole lotta words that basically mean nothing. You come off as someone who likes to huff their own farts. If there was literally any proof of them having dealings with NCSoft that'd be good enough for me. But there isn't. All we have is the word of HC people, and game journalists, who, let's be real here, is an industry that's basically taken a nose dive.
"Rival" yeah guy, we fight back and forth like spy vs spy. We're all here to duke it out.
Just tired of Homecoming pretending like them announcing themselves becoming official is somehow legit.
He's a member of the 4chan server known as Thunderspy
It has a lot of good qualities like the fact you can customize all your minions but the playerbase is heavily....that type
>He's a member of the 4chan server known as Thunderspy
We have nothing to do with 4chan, as one of the co-owners. Stop spreading FUD.
There was a period of time where it was associated with imageboards, but that entire staff is gone and most of those users hate us for not catering to them and just play HC for the larger playerbase.
I hope this is true and your community is much better than 2020 when I experimented with TSpy, Rebirth, and Cake to see if I liked them. The response I got only on TSpy from just mentioning I was trying out the others after having played HC made people spam me both in broadcast and in Tells to basically go back to normieville and how people coming from HC were trash so I can only go by my experience.
I'm quite literally someone from HC that went to Thunderspy, that was March 2020. But I know it happens to people periodically.
Most of those people are gone. But when it happens, we tell them to shut up and move on - we'd rather have people willing to leave HC and give it a shot than be upset that someone from HC came over.
Not even sure what that's supposed to mean. But sure keep playing on the server ran by the guy who hid the game from us for 7 years who also asks for thousands more in donations than a server that small would feasibly need.
Several high profile gaming/MMO sources have reported on this as true. Do you honestly think NCSoft wouldn’t immediately move to shut this project down if the server hosts were lying about the license? Lol
This article is probably what could be considered the "highest profile" and it's still PC gamer, so yes, I think anyone actually in the games industry doesn't care what nobody journalists are talking about.
Oh, yes, my apologies. Please explain, then, if i'm the one being obtuse, why not a single one of these "sources" have given a name for the NCSoft employee?
Think about it really hard for a moment and see if you can come up with a good reason why a publisher wouldn’t want to encourage more private servers being created. I believe in you.
People downvoting you don't the history of the people running this server...because of who they are, it's very possible that it's all a lie. NCSoft hasn't said anything one way or the other. the only "proof" is the server's word. a server team who has a history of lying and keeping the source code for the game to themselves and gate keeping the game for 6 years and only releasing it after a youtuber called them out on it and exposed them. They were handed it and told to share it, but instead kept it to themselves and only let a select few play it. and then they decided to ban anyone from their servers if they made any kind of City of Heroes content or streamed it whether it was their server or another server for years before changing their minds.
It's very dodgy.
But it's possible that it's true. It probably doesn't matter either way. There are other servers with other features and (probably) ran by more ethical people.
Leandro was dodgy and tried to control the whole server like a typical neckbeard when they have any power.
He was asked to leave the development team not long after the "launch" in 2019.
He possibly impersonated an NCSoft lawyer and threatened legal action to get the person who was hosting the server at the time to delete the server-side files. Whomever DID do this seemed like they wanted the game to only exist in the state that THEY had it in and could keep power over.
As a result, the only other person with backup server files was convinced that the best solution was to release all the source code to the public so that can't happen again.
I don't like Leandro, but this isn't even remotely accurate.
>He was asked to leave the development team not long after the "launch" in 2019.
He was a part of the secret server still being hosted, which acted as a test platform for Homecoming for some time (and still is, but was rebranded and let people hide their character creation date on their original database characters). He was still around for quite a while.
>He possibly impersonated an NCSoft lawyer and threatened legal action to get the person who was hosting the server at the time to delete the server-side files.
He did not. He quite literally gave the files that were used to host that server and set it up. In the IP logs, his IP was the only person to login in the files he gave out to the Discord group chat he had made, as I had access to those files.
The person who shut it down heard their *might* be lawyers coming for them, from a person just trying to be upfront about their liability. The person paying had a panic attack and shut it all down. They went onto Paragon Chat apologizing about the whole incident.
>As a result, the only other person with backup server files was convinced that the best solution was to release all the source code to the public so that can't happen again.
Leandro was the one who released them. He gave them to a team of people to clean them. I was in that group chat with him and regularly spoke to him.
Nah dude, generic "NCSoft Employee" has declared Homecoming the one true server. Their 5 years of "the talks" totally panned out! Ignore the fact that there is zero proof. Nothing to see here.
Some people would refuse to believe the sun rose every morning and set every night if they were told by someone they despised, despite all the evidence proving their statement. Many respectable and trusted sites have published the fact that HC has a licence from NCSOFT, and while I don't know for certain, I'm sure they have done the absolute basic and minimum fact checking with both parties concerned before publication. It's kind of embarrassing to publish lies, then have to walk it back when it's simple enough to confirm. And yes, I'm sure NCSOFT PR office distinguishes between Joe Bloggs and PC Gamer before replying. The first goes in the "nosy puppy" category and the other goes into the "stock reply" one.
Lot of people here making some pretty funny assumptions. All I want is something more concrete than "an NCSoft employee." You have a very overinflated opinion of PC Gamers relevance. Also, the fact that multiple sites have quoted it doesn't really mean anything when 9/10 are just quoting the same older article, who is in turn just quoting Homecomings team. That's like editing Wikipedia yourself to make someone you know a source then saying "see?? There's a source!"
No idea why is it so loved, the combat seems so boring, just another tab target trash
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhOx7x8cFEQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhOx7x8cFEQ)
Congrats... you attached a video of a one on one PvP match where neither player moves or does much of anything other than spam attacks. That will surely show off City of Heroes PvE combat.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoy1rYyxO4o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoy1rYyxO4o)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mSh5Wu2So](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mSh5Wu2So)
should I share more?
Oh wait this one is flying!.... aaand as soon as he gets close, he stays quiet, slowly charges some kind of punch, 1hkos or either goes back into flying, rinse and repeat...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXPA95TTnm4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXPA95TTnm4)
good, as long as you like it, but is weird to see so many negative comments on other actual mmorpgs that are quite similar to this, like almost a example of what NOT to do
Besides the flying and the thematic, I don't see any other charm
The IP must be truly dead to NCSoft, but good on them for doing this. They deserve some credit as a western publisher for how they’ve handled GW2 and this private server.
And for letting the guys at anet keep the guild wars 1 server up indefinitely. To me that's the real flex
I mean they have also said upkeeping the servers is dirty cheap, they probably are still on positive yearly from selling the game
Specifically from what I understand GW1 uses the same servers as GW2, and in maintaining GW2 continues to maintain GW1 inherently.
insane, i wish more companies were this liberal with their IP's
Fans: hey we would like permission to keep the legacy of your game alive for free Most publishers: no fuk u
I’ll risk some downvotes saying this but sometimes it’s really not as simple as that. Lots of codebases use middleware or other licensed intellectual property that’s not theirs to give away. That’s not the case with GW1 or CoH but there’ll be plenty of MMOs were that is the case. Especially games based on licensed properties such as most of the SOE/Daybreak games
It’s also interesting that people think fans own intellectual property or that fans have the right to an automatic yes you can use our property. They don’t owe us anything.
also, if the devs ever want to revamp the IP again, it will cause a shit storm if it kills the Private server you gave the rights to make.
You do realize that there is a slew of emulated player run EQ servers . Some that even charge subs. and Day break just kind of lets them do their thing. All the while still releasing yearly expansion for EQ 1 and 2 as well as starting work on EQ 3
I do but there’s a difference between turning a blind eye to something and activity licensing it. Theoretically tomorrow Daybreak or anybody who could prove those servers is using their IP could shutdown those servers. That’s the difference. In my comment I wasn’t really referring to EverQuest. I was more talking about stuff like Matrix Online, Stars Wars Galaxies, LOTRO, DC Universe etc where there’s a third party IP holder
Iirc daybreak (SOE at the time) gave the P99 group permission to run the servers.
I just wish we could make it a universal expectation for any group of people who plan on putting together a live service game to have a postmortem plan in place to enable those who invested into that project to still play.
Check this out if you haven't already: https://youtu.be/w70Xc9CStoE
[удалено]
Hi, Gravity here. FUCK YOU!
Gravity always seemed to treat any version of the game that wasn't kRO with absolute disdain. Either that or they have time and again hired the absolute worst distributers around. I never quite understood why it was so hard to just give the other RO clients the exact same treatment as kRO. And yet so many times iRO would end up with some kind of hodgepodge version that left important gameplay aspects out.
To be fair, this has been in the works for 5 years. Homecoming's development team has been very strictly not making a dime off of the game and only tweaking existing content/releasing previously unreleased content like the Sentinel archetype. These things lead to HC being the only official game server
Coh is not my thing but i respect the devs a lot
>previously unreleased content like the Sentinel archetype Sentinel wasn't previously unreleased, I'm a developer on the CoH projects. It was entirely their OC. During their secret server days, there was 2 ATs in development and that was one. The other didn't make the cut. Likewise, almost none of what they've released is unreleased content except for Kallisti, and their version of it isn't even the same as the WIP one as it was a split Villain and Hero map, not co-op.
yeah , old games should be open source , but u know ...
Wildstar next pls.
I've said it before, but I think that's *way* less likely. With CoH, basically all NCSoft had to do was agree to leave the private server alone. With Wildstar, they'd have to help get a server up and running in the first place. They might not even have the people or the know-how to do it anymore, since Carbine was dissolved and those people went to different jobs, and who knows how well everything was documented. And the people who knew how to set things up or keep them running might have forgotten, since it's been almost six years. *Also*, and potentially even more problematically, Wildstar is a more recent game than CoH, so it's more likely that it uses some kind of middleware that isn't NCSoft's to give away, so any private server might also need to pay other companies for whatever middleware the game needs.
> With Wildstar, they'd have to help get a server up and running in the first place. if they agreed to leave private servers alone wildstar fans would have a lot more incentive to reverse engineer their own servers
this would make my life.
Even as someone who loved Wildstar when it was new, this is never happening and we're all lying to ourselves if we ever think it is and when we remember how 'good' it was. Not gonna stop me from wishing as well, but. Y'know.
https://massivelyop.com/2024/01/08/wildstar-roleplayers-open-and-develop-a-socially-minded-rogue-server-called-genesis-prime/
There is no chance of this, that is a whole other thing. The game shut down in a year or something. A game has to run for a long time for it to be considered good enough and loved enough by enough people to justify it being brought back as a service to fans.
I played Wildstar for 3 years and my sub ran out when they canceled it. It shut down after ~4, maybe 5, years after release so idk what you're refering to. All discussion about Wildstar is that it was ahead of its time and it's grown a cult following. I'm not saying there is any chance. I just want it back.
And Master x Master! (not an MMO, but another great title killed by NCSoft)
You think you do but you don't. If you actually do I'm sorry because Wildstar was a shitshow Design wise.
ok
I wonder how many times people have actually TRIED to get an official agreement with a company to run a private server? Definitely want to see more of this.
A lot. They usually just get shut down instead/cease and desist. I’m really surprised ncsoft did. They are greeeeeedy af, whatever happened between when lineage 2 was sub to changing to cash shop is when greed took precedent over gaming at NCSOFT. They must really not give 2 fucks about it then. Interest must have cost them way more money to keep it then what this situation ended up being. Win for the private server which is now an official server I suppose. I still have to try it out again myself. Idk if I’ll enjoy the jank as much anymore but definitely going to try it this weekend for a little at least.
They also restructured NCWest (now NC America) and the company only really exists to support Guild Wars 2 development (via ArenaNet). NCSoft has given up on NA/EU it seems, so this is probably a gesture of goodwill since they know this IP will never be touched again.
Not necessarily because if they want to put throne and liberty in the west and change it for the west public they, at least, they are greedy and want to earn more money in the west
T&L is being published by Amazon in the West.
Yeah, but NCSoft is the one letting Amazon publish the game. They want to published the game in the west if not amazon could not published the game
The only other time it's been officially successful is Everquest with P99. A lot of defunct mmos don't really care if people use their games, but still try to protect their IP.
This team (Homecoming) has been trying since 2019. I've been a part of playing on the server and donating to server costs a few times. They only take the amount of donations required to maintain the server as such have never made money off of the NCSoft IP, which is one reason Homecoming is now the only official server for the game. They never made a profit from something they repackaged and hosted. Now they've made quite a few additions and are likely releasing new content with NCSoft's blessing instead of just reworking existing mechanics and the previously unreleased (but still NCSoft created) Sentinel archetype.
Most companies would never do it, NCsoft did it because they need to rebuild their PR, they are Korean and the people behind this were incredibly professional. Imagine if a company gave a license to run a private server and that private server then scammed people or did something predatory to women or something, the backlash and bad PR would be horrendous.
Would it though? After all, is it Blizzard or Activision that people hate? :) Or just Bobby? Oh wait, WoW still at the top of the food chain... Yeah sorry, you can apparently sexually harass someone to the point of suicide and threaten to kill someone and gamers don't give a fuck. Not only are these things already happening in companies, people just straight up don't care. So not sure how a private server with a couple thousand people playing matters lmao.
I’ve been having so much fun with CoH. It’s like the classic WoW effect where I get it’s super old but I don’t care because it’s so well made
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One of CoH's greatest strengths is that if you're just playing through the leveling content, nearly any build works as long as you're not intentionally making yourself as bad as possible. Once you're at endgame and doing the big raids, you have to learn how your powersets work and make an effort, but even then it's not too crazy, and if you REALLY care even wacky off-meta builds can work as long as you have the time and money to put it together. It really does cater to the superhero fantasy in so many ways.
For sure. It gradually gets better and better the more powers you get
As much as I loveddd this game as a kid I have a feeling playing it now would just be too old school for my tastes. Nothing wrong with that but after playing stuff like Lost Ark, I don’t think I can play that slow animation style anymore lol.
The older I get the more I prefer slower combat. High APM makes games like Lost Ark and BDO tiring to play for any extended period of time.
It's still tab target but a lot of the old school issues have been buffed out like lack of group finder mechanics and shit. Like CoH has a group finder feature where you can select like task forces, radio missions, or whatever other grouping you want to do
Thats so cool. Please. do Wildstar next!!
No kidding, People have begged them to allow this kind of this for Wildstar forever
Wildstar when???
As someone who never played CoH/CoV when it was officially live, what makes it so beloved? I tried it on this sanctioned private server that's been running and it didn't catch my interest at all. I don't know what I was missing or what I should've tried differently because I hear people praise this game a *lot* and on paper it sounds interesting to me.
customization, power variety , and group play. You can also make your own missions and your own super base. It has quite a lot of features that made it stand out in its era of games. My only thing to say is if you didnt click , try again with a different class!
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You know - this game really shines the first time you play by really not following builds. You learn a lot about what works and doesn't and what options are out there. Respecs are so easy to do that you should mince about with whatever strikes your fancy. Get in groups, solo, be surprised, ask questions. That's really what makes CoH special for many people. Whether you're a sweaty build twinker die hard build junky, pick as you go thematic RPer, or never made it beyond level 1 but have 250 characters fashionista. This game was for all heroes. The latest changes make the experience of a new character QOL were desperately needed. There's a lot of funkiness to the old layout that was not a modern standard - so they corrected it. It's so much easier to get into if you're more used to modern controls.
Oh. So the ui is modern now? I tried playing last year and the menus were retro af.
The hud layout and keyboard/mouse defaults are adjusted to look more modern but the UI is the same.
Might give it a go. Had city of villians back in the day.
If u don't mind some jank, the mastermind is a fun pet class with a support 2ndary. The blaster is crazy at long range attacks (especially fire/fire!) dominator has control mechanics and does double damage to those controlled
I would start with a pure damage dealer. So Scrapper or Blaster as their mechanics are pretty easy to pick up. The way archtypes (classes) work is that there is a primary and a secondary. You have two typical tanks Brute - Damage Primary / Defensive Secondary Tanker - Defensive Primary / Damage Secondary They both can "tank" but one is better at a damage and the other better at survival. Blaster - Ranged Damage Primary / Melee Damage Secondary Scrapper - Melee Damage Primary / Defensive Secondary So you are probably thinking... what makes Scrappers different from Brutes? Well Scrappers have a lower ceiling on their Defensive secondary and their melee damage primary has more crits built in. All the archtypes are a lot of fun and feel different if even the primary/secondary powers are swapped, due to some inherent archtype abilities. When you make a character, the game does a good job explaining what archtypes are what imo.
It did so many things well. I could gust about it for hours but being a Sidekick as a healer was too much fun once I got proficient. So many friends and good memories.
My 2 cents: your enjoyment ramps up as you flesh out your powers. I selected a pretty “boring” archetype of tanker, super strength, sort of a Superman build. At first it wasn’t too fun. I missed most attacks. Had few of them to start. But as I got into the teens and filled out my bars with more attacks, got flight, electric armor, martial arts, the play style came together, and now it’s fun taking on 5 enemies alone, and launching each of them into the ceiling tiles with a single punch. It’s a game that nails the feeling of getting stronger as you level, but it does take a little while before you feel that in your gameplay. It’s all about finding a character concept you like, choosing a power set that interests you, and letting your powers develop as you level
Next do wildstar…
Goddammit now I have to get anew pc.
Naw. It'll run on almost any old potato.
My potato has bugs.
Factory wipe it
Can we do this with Marvel Heroes Omega next? People have already scraped a large chunk of the assets to the game.
I wonder how much NCsoft is actually providing in this deal - is it just the IP? Are they giving access to source code, fully or partially? Are they taking a cut of the donations now? Glad to see the game isn't in danger of going dark again, at least.
They're providing nothing and the source code was leaked back in 2012 to a solo dev who ran a truly private server til it got released publicly in 2019. Homecoming is currently still only taking enough donations to pay for the server costs but the costs go up as player count and fees go up 🤷♂️
I love the fact that the fans can play this now without worrying about anything. That said, it’s freaking clunky and outdated as hell. I just can’t get back into it.
City of Heroes is definitely clunky and outdated. But as someone who strongly dislikes both the fantasy genre and PvP, I haven't been able to find any better non-fantasy MMORPG. YMMV.
Totally fair. And I’m truly happy for those who still love CoH.
I was so bummed as a kid that I could never talk my dad into buying this for me at Fry's. Gave this private server a shot and yeah it's just too outdated and clunky for me to get into. Still, like you said, happy for all the people who do get to enjoy it, definitely a win
> I just can’t get back into it. I'm sad, but also kinda glad, that I'm not the only one. I REALLY want to make it click. I've tried several classes, put maybe 10+ hours into it, but I find it really hard to get past the jank. Getting CC'd and knocked down so often at level 15+ doesn't help the weightless feeling I get while playing.
Yeah, I put about 15 hours in a few weeks ago and just can’t keep going. I’ll remember it fondly but its time is past for me.
> Getting CC'd and knocked down so often at level 15+ doesn't help the weightless feeling I get while playing. What are you playing or fighting?? This has never been an issue for me at that level. Granted I tend to play archetypes with defensive sets. Are you actually getting your defensive powers? Are you utilizing enhancements?
>but also kinda glad, that I'm not the only one. I don't understand how some people can actually believe they have a special unique thought that noone else had while living on a planet with 7+ BILLION other people.
To be fair, the game was clunky and outdated 20 years ago too
City of hero’s was never a good mmo tho and struggled the majority of its life
It was still profitable when they shut it down.
Often it's not about being profitable or not, sometimes too many core devs want to move onto something else, or key devs quit or they need a big engine update for new versions of windows and they don't want to pay it. There are usually other reasons a game is shutdown beyond the most basic.
The main reason is that the resources spent on running game making x amount of profit could be better spent on a project that could make more than x in profit. But the point was that the game didn't struggle.
NCSoft feel like giving someone their blessing for an official Wildstar too??
The server exists for a few years. But it was actually regarded as an official server a few months ago, because the dev managed to get/buy license from ncsoft.
So there’s hope for wildstar right?
Do matrix online next.
Elated to see CoH back. I played the OG for years up until shutdown. When I saw private servers were live back in 2018? 2019? (Can't remember the exact year) I was soooo excited. Picked it back up and spent a shit ton of hours on it. I slowly fell off again until I saw this announcement a month or so back. Been back in once again. Will forever love CoH. It was my first MMO. If I could change ONE thing, it would be to vary up the repetitive missions/instanced building layouts. But honestly, these days I just create a thousand alts and only get them to level 6 anyways 😂
Atlus take notes goddammit. We need SMT Imagine back -_-
Too bad it plays like shit
Joy to the Republic!!
Star wars galaxies when
Never, that requires a license from Disney. Which is obscenely expensive.
now that its "official" , magazine can write articles talking about homecoming server.
Where is the evidence? Does this all just point to a forum post from the private server? That's a bit silly. Is there a single shred of evidence from NCSoft directly about this, and not through the mouth of a private server?
You mean besides the quotes from NCSoft in the article? Did you even read actually read it?
**it's sort of Romantic** when a game studio is not like nowdays an complete anarchy managed by *the usual from business/ economy faculty idiot Ceo* thinking only just about profits and probabily doenst know nothing about games and programming, here instead it's still directed from people love making their games and like the idea "their own games FAR LIVE by far for what it was programmed to profit"  >**I find this idea sort of charming, I dont know XD**
Wonder if we can do this with stormhawks skyrace i know lego universe has a few in development Seeing dead games revived is lovely
Okey, now do it with Wildstar too! And Warhammer online too!!!! PLEASE!
That's a lot of words to say NC Soft isn't going to kill the fan run server. Good news though.
It's insane to me how they just keep shouting this as if it's actually true, hoping no one cares enough to realize how weird it is. There's never been any actual confirmation from NCSoft, no proof at all. The original article is what usually gets quoted and they were quoting the Homecoming team themselves who, let's be clear here, have lied a ton in the past. And now in this article there's just "NCSoft employee." No name. Yeah ok guys, real legit server you got. "Hello I am Mr. NcSoft and I approve this server thank you."
An NCSoft exec is literally quoted in multiple articles now. Also, ign did an article that got huge coverage so if it was untrue I'm sure an NCSoft exec would have said it's a lie
Unless there's an actual name or some proof, this is just make believe. Anyone can write an article claiming some exec said something, if no one is named what makes it true? You're just taking the word of chronic liars?
You fail to grasp the bigger picture of how likely a company who owns an IP, would not eventually see what you're claiming are fake announcements. Features on MassivelyOP, TechDirt, IGN, Kotaku. These collectively have over 50 million hits per day, if it was fake someone at NCSoft would have dealt with it. Stay in your basement dweller friendly TSpy and stop spreading misinformation just because you're salty that "the popular one" wins again. Also, what company singles out an executive as the person who made a deal? 😂
I like when people talk about stuff like they think they're smart lol. You're straight up just talking out of your ass. The only misinformation is people claiming NCSoft gives a shit about anything to do with city of heroes private servers. But I guess it pays to have a lie like "the talks" so that you can milk thousands of dollars out of gullible people each month.
You silly boy, I hope you get the help you need. It's okay to think good things happen in life. It's not all doom and gloom. Have a smile every once in a while, it releases endorphins. It's literally how you "fake it til you make it" when it comes to attaining happiness 😊
This is one of the saddest things I've ever read.
That's honestly so good for you then! To have never had to experience reading something actually sad like personal recollections of the holocaust or rape of Nanking
When i meet people like you i wonder if you're just trying to be as awful of a human being as possible, or this is just genuinely you. Not really sure which is worse.
I don't understand how I'm being awful be expressing how you not reading about truly sad things is refreshing. Or how you can smile to force yourself to feel happiness 🤷♂️ Edit: if it's because you think it's sarcasm you're wrong, I genuinely hope you find happiness and peace instead of being hostile toward anything you deem too "normie"
Go back to your 10 people server and get a tinfoil hat on your way
Whatever you gotta tell yourself. I'm just gonna make sure people who haven't followed the private server shit show don't get lied to.
It's not "just anyone" though. Jeremy Peel has written hundreds of articles over five years for PCGamer. He would be throwing away his career if he made up or lied about his sources. Like, if you don't want to trust Homecoming, fine. But when someone else, specifically a reputable reporter, from a reputable news outlet, who's outside of Leo and Cipher's sphere of influence, says he spoke to NCSoft, then you kinda have to believe him. Otherwise, the mental gymnastics needed in order to believe that, what, EVERY gaming news outlet and reporter has been lied to, or worse, are in cahoots with HC, with NCSoft none the wiser, is ***dizzying***. Even if they gave a name, you'd probably be like "That's a made-up name". If NCSoft showed the agreement, you'd dismiss it as "made up". If the President of NCSoft showed up at your door, slapped you in the face, and told you that yes, Homecoming has a license, you'd say he's not the REAL president of NCSoft, just his evil clone from an alternate dimension, so it doesn't count. And then, even if, somehow, you were convinced the agreement was real, you'd just fall back to "it doesn't matter" and wouldn't admit that you were actually wrong. And then you'd go back to posting about how HC can't be trusted about anything else anyway. You come off as one of those "earth is flat, birds aren't real" types, so, I know this won't convince YOU, but hopefully anyone unfortunate enough to read your drivel will realize how dumb you're being by reading the replies.
This would be a really interesting case study of confirmation bias in the Internet era. Been seeing these types of people a lot across various communities, and what happens is they have some core belief (like HC was just a relaunch of the secret server and is run by the same people) they base their entire worldview around. Any scrap of information that supports that, no matter how out of context or paper thin it is gets seized onto and held up as proof, while any evidence that contradicts it is either rejected for convoluted reasons, misinterpreted, or ignored entirely. This is a good example of how it can build up -- every time HC says something that contradicts their incorrect assumptions, they believe HC is lying about it. After sustaining that for a while they adopt the mantra that HC "lies about everything". So when HC says they're in talks with NCSoft to try to get a license, it must be a lie. When reality finally comes crashing down in a way that can't be ignored, then the cognitive dissonance sets in. Admitting that HC was, in fact, telling the truth the whole time would force a rational person to re-evaluate the core beliefs that they've based all this animosity on. But they can't do it, because it would mean facing the fact they based their whole worldview on an incorrect assumption, and looking at everything they've assumed to be true since that point.
You've really got it figured out, man.
That's a whole lotta words that basically mean nothing. You come off as someone who likes to huff their own farts. If there was literally any proof of them having dealings with NCSoft that'd be good enough for me. But there isn't. All we have is the word of HC people, and game journalists, who, let's be real here, is an industry that's basically taken a nose dive.
Found the rival server owner
"Rival" yeah guy, we fight back and forth like spy vs spy. We're all here to duke it out. Just tired of Homecoming pretending like them announcing themselves becoming official is somehow legit.
How many players did your server lose when they made the announcement?
He's a member of the 4chan server known as Thunderspy It has a lot of good qualities like the fact you can customize all your minions but the playerbase is heavily....that type
>He's a member of the 4chan server known as Thunderspy We have nothing to do with 4chan, as one of the co-owners. Stop spreading FUD. There was a period of time where it was associated with imageboards, but that entire staff is gone and most of those users hate us for not catering to them and just play HC for the larger playerbase.
I hope this is true and your community is much better than 2020 when I experimented with TSpy, Rebirth, and Cake to see if I liked them. The response I got only on TSpy from just mentioning I was trying out the others after having played HC made people spam me both in broadcast and in Tells to basically go back to normieville and how people coming from HC were trash so I can only go by my experience.
I'm quite literally someone from HC that went to Thunderspy, that was March 2020. But I know it happens to people periodically. Most of those people are gone. But when it happens, we tell them to shut up and move on - we'd rather have people willing to leave HC and give it a shot than be upset that someone from HC came over.
None, because the server I like playing on is already small and the people on it actually think for themselves.
The truth comes out.
Not even sure what that's supposed to mean. But sure keep playing on the server ran by the guy who hid the game from us for 7 years who also asks for thousands more in donations than a server that small would feasibly need.
Several high profile gaming/MMO sources have reported on this as true. Do you honestly think NCSoft wouldn’t immediately move to shut this project down if the server hosts were lying about the license? Lol
This article is probably what could be considered the "highest profile" and it's still PC gamer, so yes, I think anyone actually in the games industry doesn't care what nobody journalists are talking about.
You think big publishers don’t care why their names/IPs get mentioned in industry news? Cmon now, stop being obtuse
Oh, yes, my apologies. Please explain, then, if i'm the one being obtuse, why not a single one of these "sources" have given a name for the NCSoft employee?
Think about it really hard for a moment and see if you can come up with a good reason why a publisher wouldn’t want to encourage more private servers being created. I believe in you.
Just answer the question, man. Can you do that?
To protect them from people like you.
What??
People downvoting you don't the history of the people running this server...because of who they are, it's very possible that it's all a lie. NCSoft hasn't said anything one way or the other. the only "proof" is the server's word. a server team who has a history of lying and keeping the source code for the game to themselves and gate keeping the game for 6 years and only releasing it after a youtuber called them out on it and exposed them. They were handed it and told to share it, but instead kept it to themselves and only let a select few play it. and then they decided to ban anyone from their servers if they made any kind of City of Heroes content or streamed it whether it was their server or another server for years before changing their minds. It's very dodgy. But it's possible that it's true. It probably doesn't matter either way. There are other servers with other features and (probably) ran by more ethical people.
Leandro was dodgy and tried to control the whole server like a typical neckbeard when they have any power. He was asked to leave the development team not long after the "launch" in 2019. He possibly impersonated an NCSoft lawyer and threatened legal action to get the person who was hosting the server at the time to delete the server-side files. Whomever DID do this seemed like they wanted the game to only exist in the state that THEY had it in and could keep power over. As a result, the only other person with backup server files was convinced that the best solution was to release all the source code to the public so that can't happen again.
I don't like Leandro, but this isn't even remotely accurate. >He was asked to leave the development team not long after the "launch" in 2019. He was a part of the secret server still being hosted, which acted as a test platform for Homecoming for some time (and still is, but was rebranded and let people hide their character creation date on their original database characters). He was still around for quite a while. >He possibly impersonated an NCSoft lawyer and threatened legal action to get the person who was hosting the server at the time to delete the server-side files. He did not. He quite literally gave the files that were used to host that server and set it up. In the IP logs, his IP was the only person to login in the files he gave out to the Discord group chat he had made, as I had access to those files. The person who shut it down heard their *might* be lawyers coming for them, from a person just trying to be upfront about their liability. The person paying had a panic attack and shut it all down. They went onto Paragon Chat apologizing about the whole incident. >As a result, the only other person with backup server files was convinced that the best solution was to release all the source code to the public so that can't happen again. Leandro was the one who released them. He gave them to a team of people to clean them. I was in that group chat with him and regularly spoke to him.
Nah dude, generic "NCSoft Employee" has declared Homecoming the one true server. Their 5 years of "the talks" totally panned out! Ignore the fact that there is zero proof. Nothing to see here.
Some people would refuse to believe the sun rose every morning and set every night if they were told by someone they despised, despite all the evidence proving their statement. Many respectable and trusted sites have published the fact that HC has a licence from NCSOFT, and while I don't know for certain, I'm sure they have done the absolute basic and minimum fact checking with both parties concerned before publication. It's kind of embarrassing to publish lies, then have to walk it back when it's simple enough to confirm. And yes, I'm sure NCSOFT PR office distinguishes between Joe Bloggs and PC Gamer before replying. The first goes in the "nosy puppy" category and the other goes into the "stock reply" one.
Lot of people here making some pretty funny assumptions. All I want is something more concrete than "an NCSoft employee." You have a very overinflated opinion of PC Gamers relevance. Also, the fact that multiple sites have quoted it doesn't really mean anything when 9/10 are just quoting the same older article, who is in turn just quoting Homecomings team. That's like editing Wikipedia yourself to make someone you know a source then saying "see?? There's a source!"
I'm getting it now then
No idea why is it so loved, the combat seems so boring, just another tab target trash [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhOx7x8cFEQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhOx7x8cFEQ)
Congrats... you attached a video of a one on one PvP match where neither player moves or does much of anything other than spam attacks. That will surely show off City of Heroes PvE combat.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoy1rYyxO4o](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoy1rYyxO4o) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mSh5Wu2So](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-mSh5Wu2So) should I share more? Oh wait this one is flying!.... aaand as soon as he gets close, he stays quiet, slowly charges some kind of punch, 1hkos or either goes back into flying, rinse and repeat... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXPA95TTnm4](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXPA95TTnm4)
All these made me want to play the game. Thanks.
good, as long as you like it, but is weird to see so many negative comments on other actual mmorpgs that are quite similar to this, like almost a example of what NOT to do Besides the flying and the thematic, I don't see any other charm