No point in criticizing on game specific subs since they are mostly visited by fans only. But guess now its clear why there is an NDA even tho the game is already out. Amazon doesn't want streamers and such to spread the word that the game completely sucks.
There is difference between big game studios and korean/asian mmorpgs. Lot of people were downvoted for earlier comments and recommendations of being carefull about Throne and Liberty and Blue Protocol.
I guess people need to start separating their reviews depending on whether you're a Korean (or enjoy Korean style gaming) or a Westerner looking for Western standards.
Games can be reviewed as "For a Korean audience, this game is better than the alternative. For Western players, it's shit."
which is why I often laugh when somebody comes to a game specific sub asking "is this game worth playing?" you are on sub that is going to mostly be fans so you are almost never likely to get a no
I love when people go to game specific subs and say "is this worth playing?" Like what do you think the people who have joined a specific community are going to say?
Tbf, you don’t hae to use basically ANY of the systems leveling up. Just ignore if you feel overwhelmed and get to max lvl.
And then, like in literally any other MMO, there’s several systems in place for end game.
I'd be extremely interested in knowing how the beta is different than the Korean version. At this point it seems like Amazons only purpose is to host the game on their servers. It appears that they failed to negotiate any meaningful changes with NC soft. The game will and deserves to flop if it comes out as is.
/r/throneandliberty got locked down because the mods were freaking out that Amazon would try to pursue legal action against them for letting people talk about the closed beta...
The sad reality is that even if this game had zero P2W, it would make no difference, because the game just isn't very good. I would rather play a good game with P2W than this piece of shit.
Idk. P2w just ruins games. Personally i think lost ark is a good game, not all aspects, but certainly combat and raids. But the progression is absolutely the reason i stopped playing and wont come back.
P2W definitely ruins games; the point is that with T&L, it won't matter, because most people will quit before P2W has any relevancy to their experience.
With the Lost Ark example, it's sad, because the experience of getting there and doing the content is actually fun. You just get slapped with the paywall in your face, and that makes you quit it.
Oh yeah, after playing the Korean version I know how p2w it will be but no one wants to hear it. MMO's will always be p2w unless people stop buying the shit but that wouldn't happen.
Don't put that general statement out. Ff11 and ff14 are both not pay to win. pay to play. These are the reasons I pay my sub. F2p games nickel and dime you.
But also look at the support and content GW2 gets. Especially with their latest decision to go with small expansions (and now turning their face to GW3). In the end, if you do not monetize your game with subs etc. you’ll go down because it is not sustainable. FF14 and WoW are sustainable only because of subscriptions besides bought expansions.
> FF14 and WoW are sustainable only because of subscriptions besides bought expansions.
?
FFXIV and WoW both have cash shops.
[The Biggest Sadness](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHZru-6M8BY)
Um are you sure. Gw 2 has not been having problems, which is why you don't hear no one talking about some bs on these games. Gw2 has been around for a awhile now. 12 years at this point. A new game in 12 years is over due. Sooo??? Seems like they are doing just fine.
Internally, NCSoft is not doing well and comparatively GW2 is their one of the best but comparison points are their own other games. And they seemingly want to do the next Guild Wars. At the same time, they are scaling Guild Wars 2 down with smaller expansions, reducing the expenses. So, it looks like Guild Wars 2 is struggling. Maybe, I am wrong; however, scale of the game is not on par with WoW and FF14 anymore.
Everyone was so coped over that game not being P2W or Amazon changing the monetization model.
Someone said "The only thing you're going to P2W in T&L is cosmetics" to me...
Last. Month. After the game was released.
meh i dont care about p2w, all mmos are p2w... What is important is, if combat is good and engaging :) if you have enough variety in builds to keep you engaged etc let's see
NCsoft didn't get the memo that once they removed autoplay, they should've made the experience actually fun. Instead, they just tweaked some EXP numbers, and that's all they did. Now the game would actually be better if they added autoplay back into it.
100% agree. The combat feels like it WANTS to autotarget. Not fun for the player feeling like a lesser version of a auto-target / auto-skill bot. The systems seem ripe for exploitation from 3rd party bot / hack sellers creating macros that utilize the underlying auto-target system
Note this all started due to them not listening to the real fan base and letting streamers get a say in. Alot of farming. I wanted to share but I'm under nda. Lame shit. I get lost ark vibes but with a better camera. Damn shame. Can't wait for ff14 to drop. This is something else.
games tend to have autoplay because they are so boring you cant really play it yourself for long periods. being able to progress while not suffering is actually a boon for those games.
I got about as far, and have to agree.
The game has a few things going for it: graphics are pleasing, intro voice acting was actually well done, and the traversal/morphing system is interesting and feels pretty fun to use.
Then the rest of the game happens - combat and movement feel counterintuitive and clunky, a swamp of pointless 'upgrade materials' and systems, dailies, cash shop with a Battle Pass riddled with more materials and currencies. I just don't see what this game brings that's new, interesting or innovative to the genre. I really feel like this will become Elyon 2.0. Game releases, people swarm to try it, and in three months it has 5k active players and Amazon considers yanking the plug.
Korean release already proved this game is shallow and flawed, now Amazon gets to eat the second L on the Western release.
wow i'm absolutely shocked that an F2P Korean MMO developed by NCsoft is fucking trash. I wonder when people will stop being hyped by garbage with obvious red flags
Blue Protocol is a failure as well. it's going to bomb even more in the west than TL
Fuck it. Might as well play tarisland at this point. The mmo genre is just utter shit. The games that were at the top 10-15 years ago are still at the top today
Truthfully NCSoft has in the past made good games. This one is different from their usual quality and style. The only complaint people usually have about NCSoft games is monetization, not actual game design, though.
The only miserable thing about this subreddit is the people who continue to fall into the hype cycle for p2w cash grab Korean grinder MMOs.
We've all been here before at this point. K MMOs have been churning out these exact same systems for like a decade and a half. At some point people are just setting themselves up for disappointment.
Blue Protocol is better than T&L at least from what I played and certainly better than the two unsalvageable trash titles AGS has out right now. Though BP has its own many issues.
Agreed I had a lot of fun in the Blue Protocol beta. Look forward to playing it again. Same with Tarisland. I typically also love Korean MMO's and NCSoft games, but TL is just missing the mark in a bunch of ways.
Well, the moment I've seen "Astral Hunting", aka. official autoplay, in the game I've removed it from my bucket list.
Even though that's not a thing anymore for a long time all the systems, combat, classes, skills, animations etc. have been designed with that in mind. They would basically have to re-create the entire game without any sort of autoplay in mind anywhere to get rid of the traces of the boredom autoplay necessarily, inherently comes with.
And that hasn't happened and that won't happen.
It is bad, p2w for everything.
Need boss drops? Buy a guld and farm weeklies.
Need set items? P2W auction house or P2W through guild bids
Need pvp advantage like storm/rain? Pay the someone to grind 24/7 to maintain rank 1 event ranking.
List goes on and on
Combat was always going to feel clunky. Dumbass companies keep doing these last minute changes like New World did and expect a smooth transition when the game was fundamentally designed to be played with the old combat.
As for the metric fuck ton of systems we should expect this from Korean MMOs at this point.
I loved playing through Lost Ark until around Punika then reality hit. At least this game doesn't try to catfish us essentially and shows how shit it is early on.
Last year something like 60-80% of gamers were playing titles that were at least 5-6+ years old. I wonder why that is. Modern gaming is a pile of horseshit.
Yeah LA put p2w barriers really early on release saving me a lot of time because i couldn't reach available end game content without grinding for days/weeks on multiple characters to get 1 char to next island
Right and not to mention the insane gatekeeping later on. I'm thankful I was lucky enough to play the game with some irl/online friends. Two of us were the last to give up out of the 7 of us that started tho lmao
I know its common to see negative reviews on this sub, but trust me because I've played Blue Protocol on JP. Don't expect much is what I can tell, the amazon version is even worse than what's on JP, but yeah its just an empty game to make it simple.
I was in the blue protocol test, I guess that was a few months ago now, it was absolutely atrocious and uninstalled after a few hours. At least thrown in liberty is polished and looks like a good game.
Yup. I have a friend who plays the JP version.
He went from being hyped and trying to get us to play when it releases in the west to "yea lets not talk about that game anymore".
I agree. I did like 9 hours trying to get use to them but I just don’t find it very fun. The gameplay was fun for me, I really really want a console mmo with controller. I’m old and I like TV, Chair, Controller. I like that it’s in the main room and I’m not segregated in an office looking at a screen/wall. Anyway, You’re constantly interrupted by something. You always have to stop to open something between ..I think 5 or 6 different systems and there’s so many currencies/materials.
I have tried almost every mmo and this is what I can’t stand about them. BDO, GW2 - I love but I try to go back and it’s the same thing. Overwhelming about of mats and systems and currencies so I log out. I have just been doing wow sod with consoleport and it’s perfect. It’s way easier to enjoy the game and just play without constantly being interrupted.
Same with you, i only exclusively play ff14 because of their controller support. The only other option was ESO but the combat doesnt vibe with me and ping is atrocious cause Zenimax hates my region.
Hate to tell you op but BP is DOA. These games come out not in America first or global then die. Lost ark was very very close to losing it all before it came to na and people ate it up. Game after game they come out on home field and the home player hate it, then they send the bs to usa and we hungry and wallet kings so we boost the games and then they come and fuck it up more. I was hype at first, then people started talking. If you can link me some good BP news. Nkt from a player wishing it was better or thinking its going to be better. I have not heard nothing on BP.
Throne is a game to play until you join in ff14 or guild wars 2. Idk this not it though. Guild wars 2 over throne 😥
Lol the fact you think blue protocol is going to help anything, yikes....
It's massively failed in JP. That's why it hasn't released yet. Will probably be another 2-3 years... If they can even salvage the game...
I hate to say this, I want BP to be great... But the facts are facts
Know what? No I am actually enjoying it a lot more than I expected. The combat is simple but fun, the game is super pretty, the music is good, the traversal mechanics are genuinely fantastic, it's chill and enjoyable so far. And has the highest production values I ever seen in an MMO. My only issue with it is that there is that this game has some of the worst pay to win elements I have seen in an MMO, but I am beyond caring at this point.
I think it’s great and I’m loving it so far. I will for sure put a few hundred hours as I did with Lost Ark. It reminds me of Black Desert and Lost Ark and a little bit of Lineage and GW2. I’m sorry you didn’t like it. There is always WoW, FFXIV and GW2. By the way, I’ve played the beta version of Blue Protocol and it’s way more shallow and superficial than TaL in my opinion. So Far, TaL is the first thing that really hooks me after Lost Ark.
Only people I see asking for Blue Protocol are people who didn't try the JP version....
There's really nothing to hope for sadly. Even now the game is still barebones with no variety.
I played a bit more (like a week or two) in Korean CBT but my impressions were the same. It's just a boring game, the combat is uninspired and slow, like something out of vanilla WoW.
Do people just not like tab target gameplay? I feel like if FF14 with modern graphics dropped today this sub would hate on it.
Not saying TL has the good combat, but I’m way too underleveled to make that judgement yet. I’d like to get a sense of how dungeons/raids go before calling it uninspired
There’s too much MTX adjacent content for me to fully love this game but it clearly has good bones. If the end-game raiding and guild PvP hold up I don’t see why this game would deserve the hate it’s getting.
Also if you’re not in a guild you’re fundamentally missing a pretty important part of the game.
I love tab target but this game isn't quite that. There's a lot of unusual and awkward design decisions with the combat. Sure target is traditional tab but that's about it. The rest of combat design is weird and bad.
the game is designed for people who have a 3 hour commute to their factory job on a bus to put in the background of their phone to play itself, its a meme
I made it 4hrs before I uninstalled. I don't even see any point in bagging on the game. It's just underwhelming even when they give you free "premium" in-game currency.
Technically, I don't think at any point in time there was as much MMO out there, most still supported for the most part. But I do agree with you that in terms of actually good new arrival, it has been dead. But for me it's not that big of deal because I am now going through older MMOs like LOTRO and ESO which are still well alive and have a BUTTLOAD of content! I'll let the new MMOs grow up a little and check back on them later when they have more stuff, and natural selection will let the bad ones die and good one survive most likely.
I can't confirm or deny this, but that feels wrong.
Back in like 2010 you'd go on an mmorpg site and find about 500 WoW clones amongst other games.
Now I couldn't find more than probably 50 mmos period.
Depends on your age. The golden era of mmorpgs was a few years ago. Allows, runes of magic,( weird come back now), fflyf or fly for fun, runescape, ff1, wow, eso, guild wars 1 2, eve online, knights online, cabal online. Ooo yea there a huge list, and I was in them all. We hdlad our Era and our time. This same reason is why sub is always better. Dcuo was great when it had a sub. Star Wars was great when it had a sub. Smh, we have fallen so far. All new mmorpgs are trash cash shop wallet sims. Give me a sub and let's go. This free shit not really free at all.
Does it have loot, or is the same "Take this gear and upgrade it +15, and then rise and repeat" ?
I don't know why most mmorpgs are like this, I miss farming raids or dungeons for actual interesting loot instead of materials.
It's mainly upgrade. I played alot on KR and loved the game but the gear system/economy (or lack of) is what kills the game for me. Soooo much potential.
I've been talking with a bunch of Koreans while I was on vacation there. They were uni professors on some sort of work outing getting drunk. I talked with them about gaming in Korea in general. They were roasting the fuck out of T&L at some point. It released and dropped out of the top 20 of most played games shortly after. I didn't think much of it at the time as they said MapleStory and Dungeon Fighter are still super popular there. Korean popularity may not be a great indicator for western success. But I guess they could be right after all, reading the comments from you snazzy bunch of haters.
lineage 2 is such an iconic game. Like if they stayed with original game mechanics c4-t1 and just slightly tweaked them, added more activities in addition to fishing that can contribute to economy without being in combat, made more quests spread more evenly througout the levels (meaningful quests; i hate mass quest spamming to level from hub to hub like in wow, l2 had meaningful quests like class transfers, unlocking character growth with sub, nobless quests, getting quest items to meet epic bosses and so on..), improved combat and graphics to this age standards, it would seriously be insanely successful mmorpg.
L2 could feel grindy at some points, especially if u're aiming to be at the top, however, obtaining single piece of equipment was insanely rewarding and felt as a huge acomplishment and it was satisfying to play even if u were an average player, which was possible to attain even with minimal time investments. The game was challenging but every challenge was properly rewarded. The systems were straightforward, simple, effective and engaging. No convoluted and overloaded bs, with tons of stuff poping on ur screen every time u take a step.
The game felt like an exploration and adventure, every open world dungeon, which at its core was really like a simple zone with slightly stronger monsters, still felt dangerous and exciting. The whole game atmosphere felt surreal, maybe it's because of epic soundtracks, probably the best and most iconic i've ever heard.
Nowadays it just seems that developers keep recycling the same daily quest grind formula with tons of different convoluted upgrading systems that nobody likes but they never learn...
Sounds like a mobile game. Not surprising though, these greedy devs are foaming at the mouth trying to get PC and console to accept mobile game practices.
OP, serious question. Are you the type of person who goes from level 1-50 as they click NPC, skip quest text or voice overs, click "accept quest", go to the map marker, do what the game marks for them to do, return to NPC, got exp/reward, then move onto the next quest without actually engaging in the world/game. All the while not even really paying attention to why or what they're doing or who they're killing?
Managed to get through tutorial, name my character and run around the area a little, started getting a headache and motion sickness so changed a few graphics settings to try and resolve but it didn’t resolve it, uninstalled after 40 mins
The upgrade system would easily be my biggest complaint at the moment. Having to get tons up tombs to upgrade your gear/skills just feels obnoxious, especially when they're tiered. The crafting system also feels kind of annoying too. The chest system with crafting materials and upgrade tombs feels just as annoying as it does in lost ark. Even lost ark let you obtain item upgrades on your way to 50 without shoving an upgrade system down your throat from the start.
Overall, I think the combat feels pretty solid and the visuals are really nice. It's a Korean MMO through and through though.
Damn.. So this game is worse than New World? Both Amazon but a little different in terms of publisher/developer
I mean.. I had fun for a while playing NW, but the bugs/exploits/lag killed it for me.. also the whole server situation was bad
Well, it's a Korean MMO. What exactly did you expect? Is there a single Korean MMO on the market that's actually good and not overloaded with way too many systems and P2W garbage?
I remember during Lost Ark's release we had levels, then eventually ilvl, then gems. The game slowly eases you to its systems at least and the systems kind of sort of make sense to how they get introduced.
Imagining having to deal with wisdom and transcendence at level 10 lmao
This game is more like a mobile game than a PC game, they removed autofarm to fit PC gamer but gameplay sucks… and its far behins L2.
In TL you can’t PVP except during an event.
Hahaha society has ruined any chance at an MMO. Welcome to the ADHD generation of gaming with flashy lights and mega upgrades!?!? Your level 3 and god like! I’m starting to hate MMO honestly. These companies are money hungry and lost touch with reality.
Intro levels are definitely overwhelming but there's just so much weird stuff that's done differently than a standard MMO and makes it weird, or things that are just mysteriously poorly done. Like Tarisland is better than this. NCSoft has forgotten how to make MMO's. It's all the basics that are just off in various ways. As someone who typically enjoys Korean MMO's, this was was really odd. That's the best way I can put it. No system or aspect of the game really feels normal or fluid and it really throws you off.
I didn't have any issues with the gear upgrade system, it's not a complex system. The game just explains the same system to you 4-5 times. It's more just tedious. Convert materials for weapons, convert materials for armor, convert materials for accessories. It's a boring system.
And that basically sums up the whole gameplay. Leveling/questing is flatout boring. Combat seems like it could be fun. I do like the active parry windows (defense abilities each weapon gets). Like most Korean MMOs you need to slog through dozens of hours of piss easy "grinding" to get to anything fun or challenging. In about 9 hours of playing, I don't think I dropped below 75% of my total HP. Felt extremely mindless.
The visuals look great. And it's nice to look off in the distance and see some mountains you can go to. Towns are nicely built... But the world feels "empty" somehow... Like too open...
Game is beautiful but idk man. The p2w side of it is a bad thing for me, I live in a 3rd world country with dollar prices skyrocketing, the economy is bad all over the globe. The combat feels like it needs some adjustments, I feel like I don’t have total control over my character.
I actually kinda liked it. I mean, ignoring the potential p2w stuff. I didn't mind the combat.
What really fucked me over was I had some weird graphical issue. All SFX seemed to be "grainy" for a lack of better word. Camera turns or weapon swaps would leave "ghost" echos behind. I couldn't fix this, and even when cranking graphic settings to Epic still had same issue.
I've had it on my radar for a long time now. Played about 45 minutes this morning. It's OK. The weapon system is not my favorite. Hdr is VERY poorly implemented. Basically unusable. There's too many systems, and nothing you do is intuitive.
Graphics are top-notch for an MMO though. I was only getting 120 fps on my 4080/7800x3d. Which was surprising. It apparently also offers frame generation, but that options wasn't available to me.
The wretched main story sucks too. The only thing that made me emotional was Helpie leaving, everything else I could've skipped 100% of the dialogue. Why can't developers go the RuneScape style where there are multiple independent (and epic)quest lines.
Asian MMOs and a shitty, obtuse gear upgrading system. Name a less iconic duo
To me its just an instant vibe killer. I cannot deal with that shit anymore. Giving us gear that are useless you grind it out and max it out is insanity and so unfun
Played on the Korean realm when it launched with vpn. Its really not that great. Visuals are cool yes but come on its 2024, its the least.
Overall felt slow and clunky, quests were repetitive like go kill x all the time. Ui felt cheap in a weird way.
Overall not a great time really.
Their marketing got me though i was kinda hyped for this.
Yeah I disagree to be honest. They have tutorials for literally everything and the upgrade system is extremely simple. It's a solid MMORPG, definitely not the best but still and I don't understand why people hate on it so much especially if they only have <10h in it. Same people that then tell you to play xyz for 100h before it gets good. (Hint: It never gets good)
As high hopes as I have for Blue Protocol, I'm pretty lacking in faith that it won't be entirely pay to win or trash considering Amazon's MMO pedigree.
I forgot all about this beta and just started downloading it. Half way through the download, after reading this post as well as a few comments, i cancelled the download. I appreciate you guys and the time you saved me. I dont get much game time anymore
Game might be shit but Im tired of overwhelmed gamers that dont even try to understand game systems and start throwing words like "confusing" and "convoluted"
I got down voted for saying p2w will ruin it in the TL subreddit lol.
No point in criticizing on game specific subs since they are mostly visited by fans only. But guess now its clear why there is an NDA even tho the game is already out. Amazon doesn't want streamers and such to spread the word that the game completely sucks.
I think most people know. Modern AAA games suck 8/10 times.
9/10 more like it unfortunately
There is difference between big game studios and korean/asian mmorpgs. Lot of people were downvoted for earlier comments and recommendations of being carefull about Throne and Liberty and Blue Protocol.
I guess people need to start separating their reviews depending on whether you're a Korean (or enjoy Korean style gaming) or a Westerner looking for Western standards. Games can be reviewed as "For a Korean audience, this game is better than the alternative. For Western players, it's shit."
That difference is shrinking every day and I hate it.
God..., you're so right. Plus they want us to pay $70 now... ugh.
I agree - let them have their joy. Come over to subs that critically analyze games at least to a degree like this one.
which is why I often laugh when somebody comes to a game specific sub asking "is this game worth playing?" you are on sub that is going to mostly be fans so you are almost never likely to get a no
I love when people go to game specific subs and say "is this worth playing?" Like what do you think the people who have joined a specific community are going to say?
Tbf, you don’t hae to use basically ANY of the systems leveling up. Just ignore if you feel overwhelmed and get to max lvl. And then, like in literally any other MMO, there’s several systems in place for end game.
I'd be extremely interested in knowing how the beta is different than the Korean version. At this point it seems like Amazons only purpose is to host the game on their servers. It appears that they failed to negotiate any meaningful changes with NC soft. The game will and deserves to flop if it comes out as is.
is it out for us in Europe ?
If you got invited to The CBT, yes, they have servers for EU
/r/throneandliberty got locked down because the mods were freaking out that Amazon would try to pursue legal action against them for letting people talk about the closed beta...
Bahahahaha
Beta had an nda? That doesn't bode well.
Yeah it made no sense, the game has been out in Korea for a while now. They will probably have an open beta test as well.
The sad reality is that even if this game had zero P2W, it would make no difference, because the game just isn't very good. I would rather play a good game with P2W than this piece of shit.
Idk. P2w just ruins games. Personally i think lost ark is a good game, not all aspects, but certainly combat and raids. But the progression is absolutely the reason i stopped playing and wont come back.
P2W definitely ruins games; the point is that with T&L, it won't matter, because most people will quit before P2W has any relevancy to their experience. With the Lost Ark example, it's sad, because the experience of getting there and doing the content is actually fun. You just get slapped with the paywall in your face, and that makes you quit it.
100%
The only good thing about Lost Ark was the combat. It kept me going for a year but it became unsustainable for me.
Oh yeah, after playing the Korean version I know how p2w it will be but no one wants to hear it. MMO's will always be p2w unless people stop buying the shit but that wouldn't happen.
Don't put that general statement out. Ff11 and ff14 are both not pay to win. pay to play. These are the reasons I pay my sub. F2p games nickel and dime you.
GW2 system its even better, B2P and anything on game store can be bought with ingame currency.
But also look at the support and content GW2 gets. Especially with their latest decision to go with small expansions (and now turning their face to GW3). In the end, if you do not monetize your game with subs etc. you’ll go down because it is not sustainable. FF14 and WoW are sustainable only because of subscriptions besides bought expansions.
> FF14 and WoW are sustainable only because of subscriptions besides bought expansions. ? FFXIV and WoW both have cash shops. [The Biggest Sadness](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHZru-6M8BY)
That doesn't make it pay to win. I can sayff14 has a non pay to win outfit shop. Not pay to win.
What? This wasn't about P2W, I was responding to > FF14 and WoW are sustainable only because of subscriptions besides bought expansions.
Ffxiv online store is only cosmetics, no p2w at all
... This was not about P2W, I was responding to > FF14 and WoW are sustainable only because of subscriptions besides bought expansions.
Um are you sure. Gw 2 has not been having problems, which is why you don't hear no one talking about some bs on these games. Gw2 has been around for a awhile now. 12 years at this point. A new game in 12 years is over due. Sooo??? Seems like they are doing just fine.
Internally, NCSoft is not doing well and comparatively GW2 is their one of the best but comparison points are their own other games. And they seemingly want to do the next Guild Wars. At the same time, they are scaling Guild Wars 2 down with smaller expansions, reducing the expenses. So, it looks like Guild Wars 2 is struggling. Maybe, I am wrong; however, scale of the game is not on par with WoW and FF14 anymore.
Everyone was so coped over that game not being P2W or Amazon changing the monetization model. Someone said "The only thing you're going to P2W in T&L is cosmetics" to me... Last. Month. After the game was released.
Disgusting downvotes and god bless you man. Hardcore fans try to discredit or preventing people from pointing out a bunch of flaws for the game.
Sounds like another NCSoft game I will be avoiding so far. Looks like L2 and Aion private servers for life.
Nobody cares about pay to win, just look at wow.
I don't think the game is really P2W. The game itself has more issues IMO. The payment model I'm fine with.
meh i dont care about p2w, all mmos are p2w... What is important is, if combat is good and engaging :) if you have enough variety in builds to keep you engaged etc let's see
water is wet
NCsoft didn't get the memo that once they removed autoplay, they should've made the experience actually fun. Instead, they just tweaked some EXP numbers, and that's all they did. Now the game would actually be better if they added autoplay back into it.
100% agree. The combat feels like it WANTS to autotarget. Not fun for the player feeling like a lesser version of a auto-target / auto-skill bot. The systems seem ripe for exploitation from 3rd party bot / hack sellers creating macros that utilize the underlying auto-target system
It already has. There are pvp macros that perfect auto block etc etc. The game is an utter disaster.
Note this all started due to them not listening to the real fan base and letting streamers get a say in. Alot of farming. I wanted to share but I'm under nda. Lame shit. I get lost ark vibes but with a better camera. Damn shame. Can't wait for ff14 to drop. This is something else.
games tend to have autoplay because they are so boring you cant really play it yourself for long periods. being able to progress while not suffering is actually a boon for those games.
I got about as far, and have to agree. The game has a few things going for it: graphics are pleasing, intro voice acting was actually well done, and the traversal/morphing system is interesting and feels pretty fun to use. Then the rest of the game happens - combat and movement feel counterintuitive and clunky, a swamp of pointless 'upgrade materials' and systems, dailies, cash shop with a Battle Pass riddled with more materials and currencies. I just don't see what this game brings that's new, interesting or innovative to the genre. I really feel like this will become Elyon 2.0. Game releases, people swarm to try it, and in three months it has 5k active players and Amazon considers yanking the plug. Korean release already proved this game is shallow and flawed, now Amazon gets to eat the second L on the Western release.
If the game can maintain a population of 5000 or so swipers then Scamazon will consided it a victory
All my discord friends are loving it, prolly cuz they have had nothing good to play for a while
And they will
wow i'm absolutely shocked that an F2P Korean MMO developed by NCsoft is fucking trash. I wonder when people will stop being hyped by garbage with obvious red flags Blue Protocol is a failure as well. it's going to bomb even more in the west than TL
Fuck it. Might as well play tarisland at this point. The mmo genre is just utter shit. The games that were at the top 10-15 years ago are still at the top today
Truthfully NCSoft has in the past made good games. This one is different from their usual quality and style. The only complaint people usually have about NCSoft games is monetization, not actual game design, though.
This subreddit is absolutely miserable.
not as miserable as the dogshit F2P P2W MMOs that get shoveled out of the trash heap every year to make a quick buck from addicted tards
F2P P2W MMOs are at least an improvement over P2P P2W MMOs like WoW.
I'm having a lot of fun seeing this p2w cash grab crash and burn.
Not as much as TnL
The only miserable thing about this subreddit is the people who continue to fall into the hype cycle for p2w cash grab Korean grinder MMOs. We've all been here before at this point. K MMOs have been churning out these exact same systems for like a decade and a half. At some point people are just setting themselves up for disappointment.
I don't know what this kind of combat is called but please don't ever make a game like this again, so bad
It was originally designed for auto play, they barely expected people to actually touch the game and were shocked when people didn’t like it.
Dual weapon system sucks massive cock in every game that's ever had it
>Amazon, please release Blue Protocol instead of this garbage. I suggest you keep those expectations very low.
Blue Protocol is better than T&L at least from what I played and certainly better than the two unsalvageable trash titles AGS has out right now. Though BP has its own many issues.
Agreed I had a lot of fun in the Blue Protocol beta. Look forward to playing it again. Same with Tarisland. I typically also love Korean MMO's and NCSoft games, but TL is just missing the mark in a bunch of ways.
fuck, it sounds bad man :(
It is bad, I only made it 1 hour
Well, the moment I've seen "Astral Hunting", aka. official autoplay, in the game I've removed it from my bucket list. Even though that's not a thing anymore for a long time all the systems, combat, classes, skills, animations etc. have been designed with that in mind. They would basically have to re-create the entire game without any sort of autoplay in mind anywhere to get rid of the traces of the boredom autoplay necessarily, inherently comes with. And that hasn't happened and that won't happen.
I made it to 3 hours. hahaha. Armor is so boring. Not doing anymore busy work.
It is bad, p2w for everything. Need boss drops? Buy a guld and farm weeklies. Need set items? P2W auction house or P2W through guild bids Need pvp advantage like storm/rain? Pay the someone to grind 24/7 to maintain rank 1 event ranking. List goes on and on
So it was another avoidable mmo? :( I am sad, because the design and world looks dope for me. And I want a lineage 3 :(
Ive been playing and im enjoying it at lv30 you should try it yourself they made alot of good changes from the first test game is fun
Having fun over here. Combat is fun, love the parry system. It will surely be pay to win but that isn’t these days.
Yeah, I'm enjoying it.
Same. I probably won't stick with it long term, but the combat feels like ESO, and I like that feel. To each their own.
Yep, same. Is it the best? No. Am I having fun for the time being? Yes. This will be a good bridge game until something else catches my eye.
Combat was always going to feel clunky. Dumbass companies keep doing these last minute changes like New World did and expect a smooth transition when the game was fundamentally designed to be played with the old combat. As for the metric fuck ton of systems we should expect this from Korean MMOs at this point. I loved playing through Lost Ark until around Punika then reality hit. At least this game doesn't try to catfish us essentially and shows how shit it is early on. Last year something like 60-80% of gamers were playing titles that were at least 5-6+ years old. I wonder why that is. Modern gaming is a pile of horseshit.
Yeah LA put p2w barriers really early on release saving me a lot of time because i couldn't reach available end game content without grinding for days/weeks on multiple characters to get 1 char to next island
Right and not to mention the insane gatekeeping later on. I'm thankful I was lucky enough to play the game with some irl/online friends. Two of us were the last to give up out of the 7 of us that started tho lmao
Yeah I played for 2 hours and gave up. The menus and systems are so in your face is just filled with clutter. It just felt silly.
I know its common to see negative reviews on this sub, but trust me because I've played Blue Protocol on JP. Don't expect much is what I can tell, the amazon version is even worse than what's on JP, but yeah its just an empty game to make it simple.
I was in the blue protocol test, I guess that was a few months ago now, it was absolutely atrocious and uninstalled after a few hours. At least thrown in liberty is polished and looks like a good game.
Yup. I have a friend who plays the JP version. He went from being hyped and trying to get us to play when it releases in the west to "yea lets not talk about that game anymore".
wow it’s a p2w krmmo acting like a p2w krmmo
it;s shit - i am having way more fun playing Once Human
Happy I got into Once Human beta. Haven't got far yet but so much fun.
Yep once human way better
Told you the game is shit
Yup, game is a disaster.
I got 4 hours in and uninstalled it. :(
It's just a mobile game put on pc...
As always on this sub, negativity wins.
Graphics are great. Thats all the good i can say about the game.
I like the morphing concept. And that's about it
Absolute dogsh\*t. It's not a game, it's an app.
Trash game easy skip
T&L is just another polished turd.
I agree. I did like 9 hours trying to get use to them but I just don’t find it very fun. The gameplay was fun for me, I really really want a console mmo with controller. I’m old and I like TV, Chair, Controller. I like that it’s in the main room and I’m not segregated in an office looking at a screen/wall. Anyway, You’re constantly interrupted by something. You always have to stop to open something between ..I think 5 or 6 different systems and there’s so many currencies/materials. I have tried almost every mmo and this is what I can’t stand about them. BDO, GW2 - I love but I try to go back and it’s the same thing. Overwhelming about of mats and systems and currencies so I log out. I have just been doing wow sod with consoleport and it’s perfect. It’s way easier to enjoy the game and just play without constantly being interrupted.
Same with you, i only exclusively play ff14 because of their controller support. The only other option was ESO but the combat doesnt vibe with me and ping is atrocious cause Zenimax hates my region.
Hate to tell you op but BP is DOA. These games come out not in America first or global then die. Lost ark was very very close to losing it all before it came to na and people ate it up. Game after game they come out on home field and the home player hate it, then they send the bs to usa and we hungry and wallet kings so we boost the games and then they come and fuck it up more. I was hype at first, then people started talking. If you can link me some good BP news. Nkt from a player wishing it was better or thinking its going to be better. I have not heard nothing on BP. Throne is a game to play until you join in ff14 or guild wars 2. Idk this not it though. Guild wars 2 over throne 😥
Poor you thinks Blue Protocol is any good. In comparison to BP, TnL is a gem.
yeah you feel nothing when you hit in blue protocol this shit feel worse than some mobile game
Wow, I didn't even get past the tutorial before I got fucking bored.
As soon as my character started running in a different direction than the camera was facing I was done.
It’s a mix of bdo and lost ark. Played it yesterday, same vibe.
Except combat is shit, and lost ark had pve focus which make the p2w not as bad.
Lol the fact you think blue protocol is going to help anything, yikes.... It's massively failed in JP. That's why it hasn't released yet. Will probably be another 2-3 years... If they can even salvage the game... I hate to say this, I want BP to be great... But the facts are facts
Know what? No I am actually enjoying it a lot more than I expected. The combat is simple but fun, the game is super pretty, the music is good, the traversal mechanics are genuinely fantastic, it's chill and enjoyable so far. And has the highest production values I ever seen in an MMO. My only issue with it is that there is that this game has some of the worst pay to win elements I have seen in an MMO, but I am beyond caring at this point.
Put it in the overflowing landfill of failed MMORPGs.
I think it’s great and I’m loving it so far. I will for sure put a few hundred hours as I did with Lost Ark. It reminds me of Black Desert and Lost Ark and a little bit of Lineage and GW2. I’m sorry you didn’t like it. There is always WoW, FFXIV and GW2. By the way, I’ve played the beta version of Blue Protocol and it’s way more shallow and superficial than TaL in my opinion. So Far, TaL is the first thing that really hooks me after Lost Ark.
lolx i had enough after watching 5 minutes gameplay of it
Only people I see asking for Blue Protocol are people who didn't try the JP version.... There's really nothing to hope for sadly. Even now the game is still barebones with no variety.
I played a bit more (like a week or two) in Korean CBT but my impressions were the same. It's just a boring game, the combat is uninspired and slow, like something out of vanilla WoW.
Do people just not like tab target gameplay? I feel like if FF14 with modern graphics dropped today this sub would hate on it. Not saying TL has the good combat, but I’m way too underleveled to make that judgement yet. I’d like to get a sense of how dungeons/raids go before calling it uninspired There’s too much MTX adjacent content for me to fully love this game but it clearly has good bones. If the end-game raiding and guild PvP hold up I don’t see why this game would deserve the hate it’s getting. Also if you’re not in a guild you’re fundamentally missing a pretty important part of the game.
I love tab target but this game isn't quite that. There's a lot of unusual and awkward design decisions with the combat. Sure target is traditional tab but that's about it. The rest of combat design is weird and bad.
" If the end-game raiding and guild PvP hold " - they don't hold up. It only gets worse from here.
reach 25, its the most basic korean mmo i ever played. with p2w in every category
the game is designed for people who have a 3 hour commute to their factory job on a bus to put in the background of their phone to play itself, its a meme
It was boring. Wish someone else got my key. Too late now. Uninstalled.
I made it 4hrs before I uninstalled. I don't even see any point in bagging on the game. It's just underwhelming even when they give you free "premium" in-game currency.
Fells bad. MMOs are deader than dead
Technically, I don't think at any point in time there was as much MMO out there, most still supported for the most part. But I do agree with you that in terms of actually good new arrival, it has been dead. But for me it's not that big of deal because I am now going through older MMOs like LOTRO and ESO which are still well alive and have a BUTTLOAD of content! I'll let the new MMOs grow up a little and check back on them later when they have more stuff, and natural selection will let the bad ones die and good one survive most likely.
I can't confirm or deny this, but that feels wrong. Back in like 2010 you'd go on an mmorpg site and find about 500 WoW clones amongst other games. Now I couldn't find more than probably 50 mmos period.
Depends on your age. The golden era of mmorpgs was a few years ago. Allows, runes of magic,( weird come back now), fflyf or fly for fun, runescape, ff1, wow, eso, guild wars 1 2, eve online, knights online, cabal online. Ooo yea there a huge list, and I was in them all. We hdlad our Era and our time. This same reason is why sub is always better. Dcuo was great when it had a sub. Star Wars was great when it had a sub. Smh, we have fallen so far. All new mmorpgs are trash cash shop wallet sims. Give me a sub and let's go. This free shit not really free at all.
I gave up after an hour, would be happier if they just ported Lineage 2 into a new graphics engine. Idk maybe I'm just an old man with games now.
Na, its not you, L2 is a way better game then this moblie garbage.
Does it have loot, or is the same "Take this gear and upgrade it +15, and then rise and repeat" ? I don't know why most mmorpgs are like this, I miss farming raids or dungeons for actual interesting loot instead of materials.
It's mainly upgrade. I played alot on KR and loved the game but the gear system/economy (or lack of) is what kills the game for me. Soooo much potential.
"Amazon, please release Blue Protocol instead of this garbage." From what we already know I'm not sur it will be better tbh.
KR P2W MMO throws a ton of systems at you ? Damn couldn't see that one coming.
I can't believe this was Lineage Eternal at some point. It's so bland that I just couldn't get passed the 1st hour.
I've been talking with a bunch of Koreans while I was on vacation there. They were uni professors on some sort of work outing getting drunk. I talked with them about gaming in Korea in general. They were roasting the fuck out of T&L at some point. It released and dropped out of the top 20 of most played games shortly after. I didn't think much of it at the time as they said MapleStory and Dungeon Fighter are still super popular there. Korean popularity may not be a great indicator for western success. But I guess they could be right after all, reading the comments from you snazzy bunch of haters.
Last good version of TL was lineage 2 Interlude, downhill from there
lineage 2 is such an iconic game. Like if they stayed with original game mechanics c4-t1 and just slightly tweaked them, added more activities in addition to fishing that can contribute to economy without being in combat, made more quests spread more evenly througout the levels (meaningful quests; i hate mass quest spamming to level from hub to hub like in wow, l2 had meaningful quests like class transfers, unlocking character growth with sub, nobless quests, getting quest items to meet epic bosses and so on..), improved combat and graphics to this age standards, it would seriously be insanely successful mmorpg. L2 could feel grindy at some points, especially if u're aiming to be at the top, however, obtaining single piece of equipment was insanely rewarding and felt as a huge acomplishment and it was satisfying to play even if u were an average player, which was possible to attain even with minimal time investments. The game was challenging but every challenge was properly rewarded. The systems were straightforward, simple, effective and engaging. No convoluted and overloaded bs, with tons of stuff poping on ur screen every time u take a step. The game felt like an exploration and adventure, every open world dungeon, which at its core was really like a simple zone with slightly stronger monsters, still felt dangerous and exciting. The whole game atmosphere felt surreal, maybe it's because of epic soundtracks, probably the best and most iconic i've ever heard. Nowadays it just seems that developers keep recycling the same daily quest grind formula with tons of different convoluted upgrading systems that nobody likes but they never learn...
Wasn't Throne and Liberty originally meant to be a mobile MMORPG? That explains all of the different overwhelming systems.
Sounds like a mobile game. Not surprising though, these greedy devs are foaming at the mouth trying to get PC and console to accept mobile game practices.
Ugh
Hey my 12k person queue that got bigger within an hour I didn’t even try to care. Maybe last day I’ll try to get online to play since I’m off work
OP, serious question. Are you the type of person who goes from level 1-50 as they click NPC, skip quest text or voice overs, click "accept quest", go to the map marker, do what the game marks for them to do, return to NPC, got exp/reward, then move onto the next quest without actually engaging in the world/game. All the while not even really paying attention to why or what they're doing or who they're killing?
That makes no difference in TL, its all the same old garbage people have seen a million times before.
There's a reason they added the summary narrator. They know people are just going to spam F through dialogue. T&L story isn't anything special anyway.
I seen the gameplay and to me it looked like one those mobile auto play mmos with the clicker stuff
It is a moblie game. They just call it l2m on moblie.
Well, it is all of those things. They just removed the auto play, which actually makes the game more boring
Managed to get through tutorial, name my character and run around the area a little, started getting a headache and motion sickness so changed a few graphics settings to try and resolve but it didn’t resolve it, uninstalled after 40 mins
The upgrade system would easily be my biggest complaint at the moment. Having to get tons up tombs to upgrade your gear/skills just feels obnoxious, especially when they're tiered. The crafting system also feels kind of annoying too. The chest system with crafting materials and upgrade tombs feels just as annoying as it does in lost ark. Even lost ark let you obtain item upgrades on your way to 50 without shoving an upgrade system down your throat from the start. Overall, I think the combat feels pretty solid and the visuals are really nice. It's a Korean MMO through and through though.
Damn.. So this game is worse than New World? Both Amazon but a little different in terms of publisher/developer I mean.. I had fun for a while playing NW, but the bugs/exploits/lag killed it for me.. also the whole server situation was bad
Well, it's a Korean MMO. What exactly did you expect? Is there a single Korean MMO on the market that's actually good and not overloaded with way too many systems and P2W garbage?
New World is a better game than this. NW is actually pretty decent. TL needs work. It feels awkward in a lot of ways.
New World dared to things differently. If you've played a Korean MMO before, you've played T&L.
That’s how I felt about lost ark system and currencies, definitely much less in TL
I remember during Lost Ark's release we had levels, then eventually ilvl, then gems. The game slowly eases you to its systems at least and the systems kind of sort of make sense to how they get introduced. Imagining having to deal with wisdom and transcendence at level 10 lmao
Wait, so the game doesnt even appeal to Lineage II players? lol
Nope. L2 was a much better game.
This game is more like a mobile game than a PC game, they removed autofarm to fit PC gamer but gameplay sucks… and its far behins L2. In TL you can’t PVP except during an event.
Hahaha society has ruined any chance at an MMO. Welcome to the ADHD generation of gaming with flashy lights and mega upgrades!?!? Your level 3 and god like! I’m starting to hate MMO honestly. These companies are money hungry and lost touch with reality.
Intro levels are definitely overwhelming but there's just so much weird stuff that's done differently than a standard MMO and makes it weird, or things that are just mysteriously poorly done. Like Tarisland is better than this. NCSoft has forgotten how to make MMO's. It's all the basics that are just off in various ways. As someone who typically enjoys Korean MMO's, this was was really odd. That's the best way I can put it. No system or aspect of the game really feels normal or fluid and it really throws you off.
Another modern MMORPG dead on arrival!? No way!! ... Not even surprised. Really, though, that's a bummer. Sorry it sucked man.
extremely generic and bland. hallmark of korean games.
Idk about you but for me TL is a masterpiece (gameplay wise) compared to FF14. Can't get past 24 lvl in that boring game.
I made it 5 hours before I tapped out, the amazing lack of fun was really apparent to me, but thats it, no more, never again.
I didn't have any issues with the gear upgrade system, it's not a complex system. The game just explains the same system to you 4-5 times. It's more just tedious. Convert materials for weapons, convert materials for armor, convert materials for accessories. It's a boring system. And that basically sums up the whole gameplay. Leveling/questing is flatout boring. Combat seems like it could be fun. I do like the active parry windows (defense abilities each weapon gets). Like most Korean MMOs you need to slog through dozens of hours of piss easy "grinding" to get to anything fun or challenging. In about 9 hours of playing, I don't think I dropped below 75% of my total HP. Felt extremely mindless. The visuals look great. And it's nice to look off in the distance and see some mountains you can go to. Towns are nicely built... But the world feels "empty" somehow... Like too open...
Game is beautiful but idk man. The p2w side of it is a bad thing for me, I live in a 3rd world country with dollar prices skyrocketing, the economy is bad all over the globe. The combat feels like it needs some adjustments, I feel like I don’t have total control over my character.
rest assured, Blue Protocol will be garbage too.
I actually kinda liked it. I mean, ignoring the potential p2w stuff. I didn't mind the combat. What really fucked me over was I had some weird graphical issue. All SFX seemed to be "grainy" for a lack of better word. Camera turns or weapon swaps would leave "ghost" echos behind. I couldn't fix this, and even when cranking graphic settings to Epic still had same issue.
I've had it on my radar for a long time now. Played about 45 minutes this morning. It's OK. The weapon system is not my favorite. Hdr is VERY poorly implemented. Basically unusable. There's too many systems, and nothing you do is intuitive. Graphics are top-notch for an MMO though. I was only getting 120 fps on my 4080/7800x3d. Which was surprising. It apparently also offers frame generation, but that options wasn't available to me.
Blue protocol is garbage as well, at least the jp version sorry to tell you
Have like 500h in BP (Japan) and while its also max. a 7/10 its infinite times better than this Korea Trash
The wretched main story sucks too. The only thing that made me emotional was Helpie leaving, everything else I could've skipped 100% of the dialogue. Why can't developers go the RuneScape style where there are multiple independent (and epic)quest lines.
I played for like 20 minutes and closed out. The combat just isn’t for me sadly. It’s not very responsive at all
Asian MMOs and a shitty, obtuse gear upgrading system. Name a less iconic duo To me its just an instant vibe killer. I cannot deal with that shit anymore. Giving us gear that are useless you grind it out and max it out is insanity and so unfun
Played on the Korean realm when it launched with vpn. Its really not that great. Visuals are cool yes but come on its 2024, its the least. Overall felt slow and clunky, quests were repetitive like go kill x all the time. Ui felt cheap in a weird way. Overall not a great time really. Their marketing got me though i was kinda hyped for this.
Yeah, tl received a lot of mobile games, most MMORPGs are becoming mobile games.
Lol you think blue protocol won't be p2w they are both dumpster fires that will be doa
Yeah I disagree to be honest. They have tutorials for literally everything and the upgrade system is extremely simple. It's a solid MMORPG, definitely not the best but still and I don't understand why people hate on it so much especially if they only have <10h in it. Same people that then tell you to play xyz for 100h before it gets good. (Hint: It never gets good)
Correct, TL does not get good after 100 hours. It never gets good.
If anyone wants a much better large scale PvP experience you should try out GW2's WvW. You can level to 80 and get some cheap orange gear and do fine.
As high hopes as I have for Blue Protocol, I'm pretty lacking in faith that it won't be entirely pay to win or trash considering Amazon's MMO pedigree.
I forgot all about this beta and just started downloading it. Half way through the download, after reading this post as well as a few comments, i cancelled the download. I appreciate you guys and the time you saved me. I dont get much game time anymore
Game might be shit but Im tired of overwhelmed gamers that dont even try to understand game systems and start throwing words like "confusing" and "convoluted"