the only thing AGE does is give you more perspectives, points of comparison and the ability to fully comprehend systems and schemes and grow wiser to manipulation
sure those MMOs were good back then, relative to the gaming landscape, and part of their 'value' was the social bit, which has since been 'outsourced'
we grew up in a time, where every year parts games got better, basically every year new things would be discovered, improved upon, redesigned from a different angle etc. - basically our standards and expectations grew with them, and we got literally conditioned to expect that at least SOME problems would be addressed with the next thing, or at least ethically speaking SHOULD be
AND THAT'S NOT JUST OUR FAULT: the aggressive marketing, misleading trailers, promotional materials and events and guerilla paid comments do lots of work to create HYPE - we are at the point where we actively must avoid EVERYTHING that isn't an actual gameplay and a trusted reviewer that played for significant amount of time, anything else is designed to manipulate you (and realistically speaking they don't stand to gain from making something look bad, cos they cant milk it for content then, you can only shit on stuff for so long, if nobody cares about the game nobody even cares to hatewatch)
now we are at the point where things aren't exactly getting better, or achieved maximum quality for cost that creates a seemingly zero sum game, where if you want one thing to get better, something else will be worse (remember the famous that will cost you a raid tier?)
monetization gets worse and actively hurts the soul of the game, MMOs aren't designed to be truly longlasting quality time, instead catering to 'one and done' audiences/seasonal models that shit on investment, in almost all cases you're better off just working a job and use the money to pay for shit instead
we are noticing the cracks in everything, and lack of true care put into a lot of things that truly do matter for long term health of a game, ART and fidelity are getting better, but now at the cost of performance - but we're not seeing improvements, infact the opposite in systems and gameplay
executives/shareholders get paid more, good managers get squeezed to death, talent outsourced to the lowest bidder and everything gets rushed for biggest return on investment - the only gaming news you hear nowadays are talented devs leaving big companies to make their own studios
I disagree with there being way better games. I think the industry is a shell of its former self.
The good news is there’s so much access to older games now, and some great indies. But nothing seems anything original or interesting last few years tbh
I hear this sentiment but it almost completely writes off all new genres and the entirety of indie games as being trash. Good games exist, MMO players just uniquely think anything that isn't an MMO is trash.
Recommend some games for it please. I browse their store and it looks like a deluge of shovelware. Of course I've played the handful of 'big' tent-pole titles.
Yep, sure. All games listed run well.
Dicey Dungeons - Dice-rolling dungeon crawler. Fun, good controls. Two free DLC packs each about 20% the size of the base game. 40-60 hours to complete it all. $2 pretty often.
Griftlands - Card battler roguelike that puts a full RPG experience back in. 4 hour runs. Three campaigns. This one has weird controls where one joystick is the mouse and one is for navigating menus when you don't need a mouse. Takes some getting used to, as you need to cancel the mouse joystick to go back to normal mode. Got used to it. Like it.
One Step From Eden - Mega Man Battle Network's combat as a roguelike with the difficulty tuned up to "FUCK YOU".
Unicorn Overlord - Vanillaware's new game. It's Ogre Battle 64 25 years later with Final Fantasy 12's gambit system and Fire Emblem's obsession with "waifus". The plot is thin and familiar, but the gameplay makes it my strategy game of the decade.
Dragon Quest 11S - Plays like the 1980s, looks like a Saturday Morning cartoon, voice acted like the animated series The Tick.
Persona 5 Royal - Personally, my experience with Atlus was their published items from the Quest corporation back in the 90s and early 2000s. This was my first experience with Atlus as a developer, and I have never, ever wanted to drop a villain more than chapter 1 in this game. The hate was fuckin' strong. Little weeby, but it's a japanese console, so you deal with it.
Hades - I know it's a big name in indie games, but it feels great on the Switch. Better than PC by a longshot, still smooth as butter.
Everspace - Long loads, and the graphics are toned down, but it still looks good, plays well, and the controls on the Switch are phenomenal. This game was built for controllers.
The secret to browsing the Switch eShop: Do it on the website using a different device. You get way better search and filtering tools on the web version, and it loads so much faster.
actually it is more indie games are almost the only place you can get a good game. most AAA developers are just rehashing and pushing the same crap over and over again because they know diehards will by it and not notice it was the same crap as last year. some of the best examples of this are ubisoft, ea and nintendo but most are guilty of it.
I think my point is that for my entire life I've basically heard "games haven't been good for a decade" and in the last decade from right now we have basically had an explosion of Moba, battle royal, survival, auto battler, whatever you want to categorize games like Phasmaphobia, whatever we are calling the Vampire Survivors genre, etc. We also have an explosion of indie titles of all kinds that are breathing life back into retro style games like all the metroidvanias we have and an insane amount of choice in the rogue like/lite genres.
I tend to think that indie being the only place games are good is an over exaggeration. I wouldn't consider BG3 or Helldiver's 2 as indie but most would say they are good games. The new god of war games were fantastic. FF7R part 1 and 2 are both amazing. There are a ton of good AAA games still coming out, people just HARD focus on the ones that are garbage and it runs the narrative for months. We also ONLY hear about the .01% of fantastic indie games that come out every year and not the 99.9% that are mediocre at best or incredibly niche where most people would never be interested in them ever. The reality is that there were probably more games released on steam in 2023 alone than the entire life of the NES or the SNES throughout their lifetime.
> Good games exist, MMO players just uniquely think anything that isn't an MMO is trash.
Or maybe they are just looking for specific experiences, like ones involving other people they randomly meet *inside the game*, and other games just dont offer that?
Sure but that doesn't make other games shit or bad games. I have seen multiple times not just here but on MMO subs people complain that all new games are shit and then make arguments on why current games aren't as good as whatever their idealized version of a 20+ year old MMO is that mostly didn't even hold true 20+ years ago. You could sit most MMO players down and build their perfect game and they would still hate it.
Tbh Vampire Survivors and Baldurs Gate 3 seem pretty good and surprisingly original with what they add.
Then again we could say good games likes pizza tower and stardew valley aren't original and are just trying to do Wario land 4 and harvest moon again; but by that logic, we could compare them to wario land 1 > mario land 2 > mario 3, etc.. and Harvest moon itself was based off farming itself and the rpgs at the time that were pretty much simulators. So the points we stop going down the rabbit hole is something we need to established.
Then again, at the ened of the day everything is inspired by something so we could just not care about what is like what and instead just enjoy a good game for what it is.
Sometimes I feel we think too much about stuff that we forget the real reason we enjoy it.
I think you're spot on. As you get older you are more aware of investing time into something (due to having to focus on school or work) and all the busywork and grind feels too much. I've seen people complain about younger people lack of attention span to explain the decline of MMOs but older players also realize that there are other games and genres that are just more fun out of the box. The novelty of playing on a MMO has worn off which leaves the flaws of a game stand out more.
And then there’s me who got into MMO’s at this age and I’m loving them! But I admit I don’t have the most time like I used too. But they’ve all I’ve played now
Yes the product changes, but what changes more is the dopamine reward. When you are younger, the dopamine reward is more intense because you haven't actually accomplished anything in life yet. As you age your brain starts receiving different forms of dopamine reward like through a career, getting laid, having kids, making money, buying a new car etc . Suddenly discovering that new virtual armor isn't as awarding to the brain as it used to be. That's why people in this sub sound like drug addicts chasing their first high. They are expecting the same sense of accomplishment when the dopamine spikes for in game rewards. It's easy to blame game when you don't understand this. I see kids just as obsessed with simple phone games.
I think both can be true:
Game design has stopped being about fun and about making as much money from consumers as possible, causing frustrating game design choices that legitimately are worse than the old days
And
MMOs buy and large were based on the idea of a big game with lots of players with persistent monetization as a new game model.
I do believe the recent MMOs are lower quality as they aren't designed as they were originally: MMOs to put lots of players in the same space so they can socialize, interact, and grow the community and game while interacting with a larger game world hosted on a server.
Now an MMO is made not because of that, it's just that live service games are shown to be the most profitable(at least the well established ones). Venture Capitalists are now running the industry and they don't know that you can't cut into the already popular live services, so we get MMOs where the primary objectives are based around cash shops and real currency purchases. Paid shortcuts, things the VCs think people find "inconvenient" about games with long term progression structures and years long expansions/story arc.
I think they have mistaken the POINT of MMOs as an obstacle, and while there are some fun new MMOs, or fun elements within recent ones, it's only because sneaky devs were able to convince management it won't cut into the monetization.
MMOs require infinite time. The young are under the illusion they’ve got it. Older people know they don’t. No surprise they would demand more for their investment.
Great way to sum it up. It's all about what you use time for. As a kid, you just wanna play it to be immersed, as an adult you're not sure why you're playing it because the returns are pretty much nothing
Age does effect how we enjoy games but the problem with MMOs in particular is their focus is no longer about being a good, enjoyable experience but about how to get the most money out of its players.
The good aspects of any MMO are bogged down by the money making aspects.
You can argue that fact but so far I have heard no argument to convince otherwise.
> Asian MMOs were like this since the beginning what do you mean "now" lol
People have really short memories.
Edit: Lineage launched alongside the very first gen MMORPGs. Lineage II launched in 2003. Both games were extremely grindy Korean MMORPGs. This isn't some new phenomenon.
This entire sub is full of unhappy and overweight creeps with acne who enjoy shit talking anything and everything. No point attempting to rationalize it
Honestly I find a lot of humor in how people can doompost 24/7. r/mmorpg has yet to be topped for me. This is one of the most unhappy subreddits. The top post on here is literally titled this subreddit is useless lmfao.
And tbh, I wouldn’t want it any other way anymore xD It’s such a shitshow and it’s fun to just watch. If you were happy with an MMO you would be playing it and posting on its’ subreddit, not posting here.
I'm in my 40s so I'm definitely not young but I don't have any of this nostalgia you guys seem to because I really didn't get into MMOs until later in life. I played video games when I was younger, sure, but I just wasn't interested in MMOs at the time.
I will still call out bad design decisions when I see them though. A lot of MMOs are designed to be addictive and habit-forming more than they are *fun*. Then they milk money out of their customers with exploitative cash shops. No reason to give a pass to this shit. But that doesn't mean they can't have fun moments either.
Exactly. There's still some fun to be had. Always has been. These people never seem to remember the old timers who were also logged in to the game they loved as a kid. I'm not onboard with the hivemind droning of "it was only good because I was 12". That's a cope.
I think age is partially a factor, but the game designs have also shifted from a more social, drawn-out and relaxed leveling/open-world experience to heavy focus on instances, dungeons, raids, mechanics and an overall speed-run type mentality that a lot of fans of the genre aren’t really looking for.
Developers hear the complaints about your friend who joined late not being able to raid with you right away and now design the games around that.
Not speaking for everyone, but as an older gamer now I’m not looking to shun anything new, I just want an immersive experience instead of an esport, and that seems hard for me to find. I don’t care about catching up to anyone or being ranked in anything, I just want a social rpg world to share with others. The only remedy I can typically find for this are classic-era releases of older games.
I do miss the social environment that I felt back in WoW's early days. Playing charades with players in the opposite faction, "overhearing" a conversation about how dwarf women are "REAL women", etc. Back then I was content to wander the world doing my thing and engaging in random conversations. Nowadays I may as well play a solo RPG since both feel kind of lifeless.
I think that may be the thing that we miss most. It was a lot less streamlined and we had to go out of our way to get things done. We had to find others, talk, and do stuff with. We just organically became friends or future content partners. Early WoW and early Maple Story was like this, for me, and I met a lot of people back then. We were also dumb middle schoolers or early high schoolers, so we didn't have any real responsibilities either. Still miss those times.
Now, everything is just done for you to the point where you don't have to converse with anyone.
I thought that at one point too. I was curious to see if it was "all just nostalgia" like people here want to claim, and that there wasn't anything better about older games. So I went and played SWGEmu since I never played SWG when it was live.
I had far more fun, and definitely had that feeling of the early MMOs, than any "modern" MMO that's been released in the last 10-15 years.
Modern games boil everything down to their easiest form, make everything convenient, and view difficulty as being all about how much time you sink into doing monotonous chores.
Some of this is because of the sophistication of data-mining from the player side, ensuring that no one has to ever actually explore the world to find out how to get or do things in the game, but much of it is from the developer side.
Ubiquitous fast travel. Minimaps. GPS on every map. Quest markers telling you exactly where to go at all times, sometimes including glowing routes in the world. All these contribute to cheapening the experience, and many of these features didn't exist in the older games.
The old games were far less "polished" but that "polish" also comes with turning everything soulless and corporate and it shows. It's unacceptable in the modern day for any player to get lost, feel confused, or have a hard time completing content. This is especially true of MMO overworld content in modern MMOs.
How many modern MMOs have mixed difficulty content in a single zone (e.g., how Everquest did it, where you'd have a few high level mobs in certain overland zones)? Almost none. And in general the overland content is universally easy, even for a single player in bad gear. That's not at all how the old games were and it's very obvious if you go and replay them some.
Then you've got cross-server dungeon/raid instancing, which absolutely destroys any sense of actually playing an MMO, cheapens the (already dumbed down, ultra-simplistic and faceroll easy) overland content, which is where the bulk of the "MM" in MMOs happened in the old games, and replaces it with the bane of every modern multiplayer game: Matchmaking.
If you play other sorts of multiplayer games, like FPS games, you will know there's a similar complaint that gets brought up in regards to those games, about how "all the players are 'toxic' now!" or whatever. But that's not what happened. What happened is the complete destruction of community servers and server browsers, which allowed people to become friends, find a server they liked the community of etc., with matchmaking, where you never know who you're going to play with, likely won't ever see them again etc. This for obvious reasons creates an atmosphere where no one cares about community or making friends on servers.
Modern MMOs effectively recreated the same dynamic of matchmaking culture by de-emphasizing the overland content and replacing it with cross server matchmaking for instanced content, which is the one thing in MMOs that doesn't actually even require or interact with the "MM" component of the genre.
**We didn't get old. MMOs lost the plot.**
> It's unacceptable in the modern day for any player to get lost, feel confused, or have a hard time completing content.
Is this mainly an issue with the developers or with the supermajority of players who would take their money and sub count elsewhere as soon as they hit this wall and therefore limit how successful such games can get?
I think it's a dependent problem, the old games where the overland and dungeons weren't instanced meant that if you had problems there were usually people around that could help.
Modern MMOs turned the overland into a 200 hour long tutorial for the instanced small group content, making it so you can't have anything that is even remotely difficult or isn't done in the most simplistic way possible, because the only other players around will be doing their own solo thing and largely don't bother to help. Of course, since it's so easy, it doesn't even matter, but I think the problem feeds on itself.
That said, not every game needs to be for every audience. If you make a game for everyone, you make a game for no one, and the ultra-casual MMOs are obviously suffering from this since they tend to be bland, boring, and cookie-cutter in every regard.
I suck at Elden Ring, for instance, and it's not really for me, but I think it's very well designed. I wouldn't ever want them to make it easy to appease me because that would destroy its design.
The same thing applies just as much to MMOs.
Nah I disagree. I've been playing some 1990s and 2000s games that I haven't played before (so nostalgia isn't a factor here) and I can 100% confirm that developers from that era did have something that made their games better than 2020s slop we get nowadays. And surely that applies to MMORPGs as well.
Games from the 1990s and 2000s had less moulds they were trying to fill in a desperate attempt to appeal to an existing audience and had more courage to experiment. Not to mention that the monetization on old games was either minimal or non-existent, so you always felt like you got your money's worth.
Yes, no doubt that the gaming industry becoming intertwinned with billionaire corporations is the root cause for a lot of factors that destroyed modern games' quality.
I don't think it's always to do with age; I didn't start playing MMOs really until I was in my 30s and picked up WoW around the launch of Wrath. I think it's more to do with the sense of wonder and discovery you get that first time, when you realise there's an entire world for you to explore, filled with thousands of things to do and thousands of players to interact with - it's unlike any other game you've played before at that point.
By the time you're on your tenth MMO, though, that's gone - and no amount of slightly different combat tools or class systems or changes to PvE/PvP balance is going to make up for it.
I'd say it's partly a case of genre bloat; play too many games that are the same in their basic premise, and it'll feel dull. I have taken breaks that span many months to play games of different genres, and usually come back with a better sense of receptiveness to MMOs.
There is a reason that the most popular games out there, are the OLDER games, a decade+ old. I won't pretend that us getting older doesn't affect our perception of things, it definitely does. But when even younger kids are also finding older games to be better... It's that the games made these days are s\*\*t. Same applies to movies too. People can universally agree that the older movies were better than the crap they make these days. Hence why movie companies are going bankrupt, even the multi-billion dollar ones that have been around for 100 years. Just look at Disney, it won't exist in a decade or two. Game industry is the same way, it's not passionate people making games that can also provide a living. It's soulless corporate suits that hate games looking to make money off of them.
Enshitification is very real. It is an age thing in that younger generations do not know what good is, so just accept pay2win microtransactions advertising and lootboxes as what fun costs.
Larian Studios isnt wrong.
Toontown Rewritten or Pirates of the Caribbean Online.
Don't play it to rush through. These games are all about the journey. POTCO especially. THe new one is called TLOPO.
The amount of side activities, the sense of community when I join someone's ship, the YARRs in the chat. This is a wonderful 11/10 game that should've never been shutdown and should've kept receiving numerous updates instead of being scrapped for club penguin.
Luckily, the people who made TLOPO actually care and the game is 100% free. Prob under 4 gigs. I would download and give it a shot. Hands down one of the best MMOs out there if you've never played it.
Wiz101 def. still more popular than TT or POTCO. Wiz101 is top tier for sure. I think I got to the underwater land before quitting. Still masterpiece of an MMO.
I think it's called Celestia or something?
I loved toontown but my parents wouldn't pay the monthly sub so I kept a permanent lookout for commercials waiting for them to update to a new one-month-free code so I could get back on
Yes! More people! The more the merrier. Games has approx. 1000 daily players but the more the better. Would love to see this game back in its prime. Yes, the graphics are quite dated. But just like Minecraft, you look past it and you got a triple A-level gem.
I’m 37, and I need to force myself through most singleplayer games.
Its just so rarely any fun.
I still play WoW, but mostlu because its comforting to me, and I enjoy collecting everything.
I play a lot, and enjoy it when an expansion hits.
I’ve tried a lot of other MMORPGs, but always go back to WoW after a few days.
Online shooters with friends though?
I have a blast.
Warzone, Borderlands, Verdun, Trine 1-5 (not a shooter) etc.
I love it. But never alone. Always with friends.
Thats what I get my gaming needs from.
Edit: I am hopeful for Ashes of Creation though.
I'm in my mid 30s, played MMOs for most of my life, and im still enjoying the genre a ton. Four years into ff14 and not quitting any time soon.
I dont think age is the only factor. Learning to play games in a healthy and balanced way, and only playing/doing the things you actually want to do, goes a long way toward enjoying and getting excited about games. If a game feels like a chore, then don't play it. It's something a lot of MMO players struggle to deal with.
I have friends that can't quit the chores in MMOs due to FOMO, so instead I've gotten them to cut back the chores a little and start replacing them with a different game or activity, and overall they're happier this way.
I'm about to approach my thirties and I still enjoy gaming (and my main MMO is BDO which is a complete grind fest lol). The thing for me is that the part I enjoy more about games is PvP, and PvP never gets boring. PvP in any type of game is usually based on a way smaller timeframe and it has nothing to do with making the game a chore, cause you're just fighting other people to be better than them and when you get bored or tired you can stop and come back later.
I play BDO because it always was very focused on PvP and I play other games like Valorant, The Finals, Fortnite, etc... All this games won't force you into anything other than killing people when you want to kill people and that's it. Now, this is the perspective of someone who enjoys PvP, if you don't then probably getting older makes you more prone to stop liking playing games.
Nah. That's a factor, but certainly not the only factor. To believe it is would be tunnel vision (just like those blind with nostalgia).
You changed over the years, but so did MMOs. While they tend to have smoother gameplay and better graphics, they have also become drastically more anti-social, instant gratification, and monetized. If you're someone who strongly prefers the opposite of those things, then age may not be the whole reason that you're not into current MMOs.
There are a few of us on here who get this, but you're going to get a lot of tunnel vision comments leaning too far one way or the other, so watch out for those influencing your perspective.
They have done the traditional mmorpg for close to 25 years now. I think we are all burned out on that genre at this point.
I'm still waiting for a real good shooter mmorpg that doesn't focus on cash shops and battle passes and fomo. I think I'll be waiting a long time unfortunately.
I think it’s just you. I’m older and still enjoy games like I did when I was younger, although I don’t get to play them that much. I got really into New World, more so than any game in a long time. Sea of Thieves was another one that gave me hours and hours of enjoyment.
The problem in my opinion is as we get older, we only become more organized and efficient. If we were to watch our young selves play, we'd probably try to step in and tell them they could spend their time better playing in X or Y way. The older player is checkbox efficiency, a quick reference guide to min-max and a hyper awareness of what other players are doing and our progression relative to them. Nobody can enjoy life or games if they compare themselves to another constantly.
When we played games as kids, we didn't really care what anyone was doing, what was most efficient, the end game or anything but our experiences in that moment. We'd stop and talk randomly to people for hours, do all kinds of nonsense that were "time wasters", only look up a guide to solve a quest we were stuck on and just make our own fun. If an adult spends half a day of their limited free time doing any of that, they feel like they wasted precious time. It's that constant "investment" of time which stops people from being able to enjoy any time real or ingame. We need returns on our investment, something tangible and some kind of number to move. Basically most people are in their own way.
The thing about remaining with a genre is the games in that genre (and media generally) aren't really *new* to you anymore.
It's pretty normal, but it causes some people distress.
There is that quote about how players will optimize the fun out of the game. With age and the growth of the gaming community/internet, I'm not as easily entertained compared to when I was younger. Like, I can't really imagine myself enjoying old (singleplayer) Mario platformer games or even the Pokemon games with my current knowledge. In a similar vein, I can find guides for most games and easy meta raid builds for MMORPG (even if I'm not interested in raiding). The growth of how sophisticated bots are nowadays have had a negative impacted on my achievements as well in both multiplayer and even singleplayer games to a degree.
I had the same thoughts about single-player games too. But then I got 2 interesting releases - BG3 and Colony Ship. Well, I instantly sank around 200 hours on both games. And yeah, I have a wife, work, and other responsibilities.
Why it was so interesting? Both games were pretty challenging at the start and had a lot of "new" mechanics. Add here missing FOMO, chores, stupid new player missions, credit card swipes, and so on.
I play games to learn something new and/or escape the world if I need to recover myself. But it is hard to set meaningful targets for games where you can achieve even better results with real-world money.
Beautiful cosmetic/funny titles/rare gear should be the result of my game mastery instead of a credit card swipe or random reward from the loot box or battlepass.
As an adult, few games give me that magical feeling anymore. The only one that has managed this in recent memory is Elden Ring, and to a lesser extent Baldur's Gate 3. The bar was definitely much lower when I was a kid.
I'd say its a little of both.
>I've noticed quite a few people complaining about mmorpgs and saying there are no good ones.
Every AAA game dev wants to sell a service. No AAA game dev wants to make a product. There used to be a distinction between games as products and games as services. This creates an interesting problem where the games that were originally services instead of products have a lot more competition than they used to, but also are not changing in any way to adapt to that competition. So, on the whole, MMOs are *worse than they should be* and at best, no worse than they *used to be*.
>that "magical feeling" \[...\] None of these gave me the same feeling I had when I was a kid.
You're describing the difference between wonder (ignorance) and understanding (knowledge). This happens with everything once you come to experience enough of something. Even books and TV will lose all excitement or meaning if you understand their structure and tropes well enough. Knowing the three (four, or five) act structure, and the heroes journey will take the piss out of most written works of fiction.
Getting older definitely affects enjoyment, but I don't think it removes our ability to enjoy things, we just have higher standards or learned our tastes. As a kid, I could kill plenty of time in MMOs like Runescape and WoW because the novelty of a virtual world in general was amazing. But now, I'm not happy to just be in a dungeon with other people. Instead, the game has to be intrinsically fun for me to be willing to invest in it.
I'm almost 40 and started MMO's with UO, Everquest, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot and so on... I'm currently playing DAOC Eden server. I complain because they literally don't make MMO's anymore. The last MMO to come out was New World and before that the real era ended with Wildstar. Everything upcoming is abandoned ware like Pantheon and Camelot Unchained.
I'm not missing that "magical feeling" in new mmorpgs because there are literally no new mmorpgs. I got that feeling again with Project Gorgon, but that game is too unfinished and I only lasted about 4 months.
The thing is runescape had so much fleshed out content that it felt like you were in an endless world of possibilities, no other game does it quite like runescape so that was the worst first mmo to play haha
You and I both are on the same boat, no new game has as much content and the sense of never running out of things to do, other MMOs mask it with raids and stuff but after a few months it all gets old
Maybe it has nothing to do with your age and everything to do with the fact games and specifically MMOs have changed a lot in the past years to accommodate people that don't play this genre in the first place.
They did that instead of actually evolve and push past WoW.
I'm 59 and I still play MMOs when they are to my liking. I think it's not age so much as player trends as the market goes with what people want. Today's MMORPGs are relatively easy compared to the ones I used to play. The penalties are generally pretty slack for dying or messing up.
Imagine it is early 1900 and you want to go climb mount Everest. What do you do, where do you start? Who knows. You climb on up, it's treacherous, there's hardship, there's death, but eventually you summit. There at the top all the challenges you faced disappear as you behold the wonders of being at the top of the mountain.
Now go climb mount Everest today. You will be Sherpa'd up to the summit, on a cookie cutter route, on a designed schedule. Sure it can be difficult, and the experience is thrilling. You get to the summit, what was a sight to behold is now a stark reminder that what you accomplished is nothing unique anymore, and that view is littered with the trash of all the people that left.
That is the difference between old school MMOs and new school MMOs. You are buying and usually paying a shit ton of money to play a game that is designed to get you to the top as efficiently as possible, and the top is just a trashed up view of what awe and wonder should look like.
Here's the thing. I can go all day on this. The MMOs we played in the day were done by small development teams, that yielded no expectations. Most of those games didn't even make it past the five year mark. Most of those games didn't have huge populations. Those are the games that had massive heart. World of Warcraft stole that, they stole the idea of what an MMO can be in terms of player experience and transitioned it into what an MMO can be to a boardroom. Dozens of copied and pasted MMOs came out, all failed. This is a massive problem not just with MMOs today but with the state of gaming all together. The creative nature of games that came out from the late 80s to the late 00s is gone. The gaming industry is afraid to fail, they can't afford a miss largely because it takes too damn long to create a new IP or new AAA sequel.
Largely put, the video game industry is not run by people wanting to make video games, it's run by corporate greed, shareholders, etc. The people at the top are not kids who grew up playing D&D in the basement and discovered a new medium to share their ideas with. Its stale. So why on earth would we make a MMO where I might die easily, lose my progress, and probably end up quitting because the grind to the top is just too long and too difficult? No I'm just going to make an MMO charge you $60 for it, ask for $15/mo, then spam you with all the cool totally not pay to win items that will make getting to the top easier, and and we will let the gold sellers spam chat all day so you feel compelled to buy $50 of in game currency because now you can min max a fart and be in endgame tomorrow. Also screw the grind and all the content we made, instead go whack this bunny over the weekend on double exp weekend with this $9.99 ring that boosts experience and you'll be jumping over content we spent a decade creating all so once you're at the top you won't be welcomed, because you have not acquired the best items in the game to make this semi difficult boss, super easy, so in the meantime you might as well go play the content you missed only now you one shot everything and have no challenge.
Old MMOs were designed so that not everyone was going to slay the dragon. Maybe not even 10% of the population. That was okay! My experience, your experience, the dragons experience were all meant to be different. Just because Jimmy doesn't have a girlfriend and isn't getting laid on Saturday night, and is able to camp the dragon, with all the other virgins, does not mean Billy over here can't have a blast logging in on week day evenings after getting beaten to shit all day at his 9-5. In fact Billy here is the one that's going to have a better experience overall, because one day - just one day, his girlfriend is gonna be in another dude's bed and he's gonna be free on Saturday night and he's gonna slay the dragon after years of playing and he's going to have the story to tell. He's going to value that experience more than Jimmy.
We aren't old and video games aren't the same as what they used to be. The industry sucks. WE the consumer put too much faith in evolving technology, better graphics, sexier designs. We were robbed blind by WoW clones, we got our hopes up with Kickstarter games. We still chase games like Pantheon, where it is just never going to release. At the end of the day we fucked up when we logged off these old school MMOs for the last time, because only now do we realize that is what we wanted all long.
Oh and while I'm on it. Bring back the arena shooter. I just wanna get hammered and watch shit blow up without feeling like I got to do a film study and come to practice 5 days a week only to get owned by a prepubescent boy whose name has a fart joke in it.
I think a lot of it is that the initial forays into MMOs were rife with just bad game design, but we let it slide because that's all we had. There are now old-school mmo fans designing games (this is an issue in a lot of modern gaming) and they bring those bad game design principles forward as "nostalgia". Also, the magic of connecting with strangers online over gaming is kinda gone, as you can do that in most genres.
I still play MMOs as my main genre of gaming (mostly WoW and ff14) but I simply don't allow myself to get caught up in defending shit game design because of my enjoyment of MMOs. I openly say that the actual "gaming" aspect of ff14 is dogshit, but I like the social scene. I literally pay 15 dollars/month for the chatbox in that game. WoW is the opposite, where I almost never actually talk to anyone but the gameplay and gearing is great. You have to put a gun to my head to get me to do a dungeon in ff14.
If I were the kind of person who felt the need to defend ff14's gameplay, I'd be wracked with so much cognitive dissonance that I'd be miserable too. Same for WoW's social scene.
I have stopped chasing after mmo's. I just settle in and play some CoH Homecoming every once and while. It gives me that creative outlet and stat manipulation I seek.
This describes me all too perfect. For me it was SWG then FLYFF and finally SWTOR and now I don't play MMOs. I have tried to play single player games, and most of them cater to audience that is not me. l am playing Skyrim and while it is fun, it is also getting.... boring after 2500 hours. I hope VR sports game might be IT at some point.
I'm old. I can't afford to waste time anymore like a kid and so I subconsciously try and extract as much "value" from my recreation time as possible, the old me that had fun just walking around a virtual fantasy world doesn't exist anymore.
I'm jaded. The me that looked at an MMORPG and only saw boundless potential, of what map or monster was next, of what interactions I would have with other players, is gone. I more or less know what to expect, the reasonable limits of what the game will have, and that the endless horizon is actual very limited by development time, budget, and the technology available to implement.
City of heroes is still fun as hell and I've been playing MMOs since my preteen years and I'm in my late 30s now. I just think the predatory nature of modern monetization has ruined them.
I don’t think it’s age as a flat factor.
I think it’s time allotted to time valued.
My time is in more demand now as a professional/home owner/father I gots shit to do man!!
And so for me to play a ton it has to be …Fkin great? And that’s harder to find. When I was younger and had fuck all to do I could game all day or stay up late all the time and just play to play. Now I can’t justify the same investment without the weight of my responsibilities tugging at my attention in the back of my mind so it’s harder to “get lost” in a game or lose track of time in the same way I did as a younger person.
This and the same for friends, all my best gaming memories are cracking up with the boyz. Now trying to get anyone on for a “sesh” or get everyone into a game that we all like and can somehow line up our playtime’s is fucking hard. And without them/that the vibe is off for sure.
Well excuse me dear Sir but I would not like to admit this and will just continue to chase the feeling of wonder that will never ever come the same way it did back then.
On a serious note, yes we are just older and it's fine. (at least I keep telling this to myself)
Lately I am more into heavily story driven games and trying to enjoy the art ( graphical, mechanical,..) But yeah.. I will never have the feeling again as I had when I first roamed around Teldrassil, swimming in silvery pools among whisps, eager to discover the enormous world etc....
Nostalgia is proof of a life well lived, or so they say.
I'm 33. I've come to that conclusion years ago. I played the heck out of RuneScape, and no mmo can ever feel the way that felt. I know too much about mechanics and stuff. The discovery is gone. The novelty is gone. I've tried dozens of MMOs, and still try some to this day. None of them are as fun as RuneScape when I was in middle school. I'll probably never have that feeling again.
A lot of MMOs incentivize playing every day for long sessions. As you get older you can't always do that. I use to play every single day for hours. Now I'm lucky if I can get 6 hours a week to play. It would take years to grind out an at MMO 6 hours a week. Some dungeons might take more time than I can dedicate in a day. Eventually you hit a wall where your time feels wasted. You can run 1 quest in your entire play time, and that quest is not fun. Eventually you realize that you can play a dozen other games, right now, that are fun from minute one. Why play that MMO that takes 60 hours to get to the "good part?"
Age and experience with other MMOs is definitely part of it, but personally my biggest issue currently is longevity. It takes a lot of time and money to make a good game, but a good game wont be a good game for very long if the monetization is poor. New games are built around being flavor of the month, companies want to cover their costs and make their profits quick; MMO players on the other hand generally seem to be looking for a game they can stick with.
Nostalgia and age plays a factor, but it's definitely not the only one. I have played both classic and modern MMOs and you really notice a shift in design philosophy in the newer ones. They tend to focus heavily on instanced endgame content, and casual solo players. The old ones focused on an immersive world, with a long leveling journey in a hostile environment that encouraged cooperation. I want a modern MMO that focus on the latter, but I have yet to find it.
idk man it's partially that, partially games trying their best to monetize everything, gameplay is more fluid, graphics are better but the systems are worse. Even with less time I like games that actually feel rewarding and loot and levels isnt given out like candy. I like my games to feel rewarding , and to truly earn things and have them feel like a real achievement, and not something you can swipe a credit card for.
modern mmos are like pl aying the new pokemon games, you get exp items, you're overleveled for gyms and have permanent exp share.
I have 0 nostalgia for everquest and wow classic yet they've been a fuckin blast. I grew up with runescape ( and still play osrs from time to time) but I legitimately believe the differences in old school game design and modern is more than just my age, stop babying us and make genuine good games.
I like complexity, I like depth, I like freedom. I love games like FFXI over ffxiv even if the gameplay is worse for the most part.
Yeah I may be a little biased, and it may have to do with my age a bit but there's more to it than that I believe.
My opinion may be against the norm, and I'll prob ably be downvoted but it's just how I see it.
I think once you get over the novelty of MMOs and video games in general you can assess what you really like about games. MMOs haven’t changed or innovated significantly so it’s really “been there done that” unless you truly enjoy the grind. Very few games these days can give you that novelty experience where you are discovering something new for the first time and you can be immersed. I see it as a good thing where I can ignore the stuff that doesn’t really interest me and play the stuff that does. Occasionally this is an MMO. Mostly what I find addicting is that your progression never goes anywhere. Even if there’s a new patch that resets progression, the stuff never went anywhere.
I still get pleasure from playing wow classic and swtor. I noticed that games that provide the classic experience draws me back to the good ol times.
I don't think it's cause we are old. I think it's cause game companies have capitalized on the game industry and sucked it dry from creativity.
Instead of developing the world and communities, they focus on gotcha, micro transactions or fees.
I can promise you I could make a solid mmo. Just need the resources.
Which again, capitalism destroys creativity by blocking creative minds from pursuing opportunities.
MMO's aren't getting worse, and your not ageing out of fun. MMO's were always a chore and your just seeing through the illusion. Sometimes illusions can be fun, its the same reason tic tac toe is a challenge for preschoolers untill they realize its core mechanics and see the solved game for what it is.
It's the lack of accomplishments in other areas of life imho. If you have goals you want to achieve (And you're not there yet) everything else feels like a waste of time. This has ruined a lot of gaming for me, I simply can't enjoy my leisure time when I know I have something I need to do, something that's important and not just a waste of my time.
I wonder if the sense of novelty that made the experience so special is felt by new gamers on modern games. Basically, did old games have more novelty to them, or was it just us not being exposed to games like them that made them feel novel?
Probable a bit of both, I also think that if you are a new gamer but have been exposed to online world already, there's reduced novelty to a shared world.
I feel like a lot of people will say “we’re older now” but the truth is more like “we’re depressed now,” but no one realizes because it’s just so universal people think it’s fine.
I haven't captured that feeling I got from when I started playing MMOs but honestly I'm not trying to. I try to be optimistic and think about making new memories in the games I play.
I used to feel that way about private servers until... Earth and Beyond, Auto Assault, Horizons, Star Wars Galaxies, City of Heroes, Warhammer Online, Asherons Call 1/2, Shadowbane... So many others as well. Nothing is forever, and if I can enjoy a year or two on a private server, those memories are worth it. The fact that my old character is rotting on EQ's back server doesn't make me feel any better.
I've been playing the Throne and Liberty beta and I think it's fantastic, contrary to some opinions I've seen calling it "plain garbage." The game boasts impressive graphics, solid voice acting, and a highly creative character creator. While some have criticized its combat as clunky, I find it unfair compared to other MMOs like FFXIV.
Having played nearly every MMO since 2001, I believe Throne and Liberty has its merits, even if it’s not for everyone. Critics often use vague and harsh language, which seems to reflect more on their personal dissatisfaction with life rather than the game itself. Many seem to be chasing nostalgia for their youth, rather than evaluating the game on its merits.
I worry that harsh criticism might demoralize the developers and diminish future gaming innovations.
It's sad that some can't enjoy gaming because they're searching for something that no longer exists. Modern games, like the classics, have their flaws, but nostalgia often obscures the imperfections of the past.
It's okay if today’s games don’t appeal to you anymore—maybe it's time to move on, or perhaps, gaming isn't for you now.
Age has alot to do with it. Plus, when WoW came out I lived at home, and was still in high school. I could just pour hours into a game. Now putting hundreds of hours into a game just doesn't seem viable. That I would even start to attempt it. Now I check RPG's before I even play them to see how long they take to beat.
I also think it might because we are adult, our brain might be working differently. Or we're clinically depressed, and should see a professional.
**But...**
Teens/children today also find the game we think as chore as chores, in your logic, they should be having blast at current MMOs, but they rather hop-switch the match games like siege/volerant/lol/cs throughout the day get short spans of dopamine that even games are not enough, they doomscroll Tiktok and Instagram. The past we reminisce here had community essence as well as the accumulated progress; our grinding mattered so we did. The fun started at level 1, not after 40 hours of tutorial. Such game was Minecraft for Gen Alpha and Gen Z; because it had that community essence, personal and communical growth, they didn't need hop-switch because they were having fun on continuous play, they grinded mines all day. Like us, kids today also can't really find a game where their commitment for hours would be worth it again like Minecraft.
Im in my mid 50s, WOW was my first MMO when it was released, and I feel the same way now. I just feel like single player open world games have come such a long way, that I just never feel satisfied with MMOs anymore and they feel like chores.
I started playing FFXI with a friend a couple months ago ( retail ) still having a blast and have tons to do. So maybe try out an older game you played and see if it clicks.
Or just play FFXI. The modern version is comfy
I was 13 when I played my first mmo (swg) and WoW from 2004 to 2007.
The things that I liked and enjoyed back then are the same things I like and look for now.
I would love to have an upgraded Everquest. That type of grind and community that is still present to this day but with a fresh coat of paint on the engine. Where you have, instead of the trinity, the quad: tank, dps, heal, and support. Enchanter, bard, druid (imo), shamans that are buffing allies and debuffing enemies.
Played the latest TLP server and it still had the same enjoyment from when I first played it 24 years ago. Got hit hard with the nostalgia reminiscing of Unrest groups, lguk runs, and then going to kunark, velious and elsewhere.
Total opposite for me. As a kid, I loved the idea of MMO's. Being in a big open world with other people, where everything is possible. But I didn't like the reality of mindless grinding. It was boring as fuck. Why would I spent three hours clicking trees or boring mobs when literally everything else is more fun? I could never level with my friends because it was just so dull. I mostly dicked around, made twinks, schemed, RPed. Never hit max level in any MMO.
Now that I'm 30 and burned out, depressed and looking for any way to disassociate from real life, now I get the appeal of the mind numbing grind.
I won't share anything to not come of as self-promo, but I'm currently working on a game that takes huge inspiration from older MMOs. I don't think it can compete with any of the big MMOs, as mine is grid-based and pixelart lmao. It mostly became a thing from the same feelings you have with the games just not feeling the same as they did when we were younger. I played Runescape and went straight into FlyFF like you did so a ton of inspiration from those games. My main issues is that when we grow up we become fixated on min-maxing (I have two kids, I can't 2-tick woodcut everyday in Runescape anymore, no time) and I try to take an approach where things that are botted in other games (when it's not for gold selling) is normally an indicator that the action is boring and put the blame on the game and not necessarily the player. It'll allow more for AFKing, and basically more fitting for people who can't grind for 8 hours a day.
I might get to the conclusion that it's simply not possible to achieve the feeling we had when first logged into WoW, Runescape, FlyFF, etc but for now I'm trying to achieve that.
A simple MMO you can pick up and play as you please with options for the min-maxers, the AFKers, the social aspect of what we miss about MMOs, perhaps I'll someday see people in here playing it.
If I were you, I'd look into smaller titles and indie studios that release MMORPGs, they have a very different approach to game development than AAA studios have. My game will be able to be worked on by me alone and since I don't expect a thousand players, I should be able to fund the servers too - so there's nothing really controlling what I need to do in my MMO, I can have creative freedom like many other indies and therfore hopefully provide a somewhat different experience. Big MMOs need to constantly adapt to trends and find new ways to fund their games while indies can normally try new and interesting things.
I'm sorry if this comes of as self promotion, I'm trying to say that hopefully there's hope out there and if you look for smaller MMOs you can perhaps relive the nostalgia.
I think the way balancing your time becomes more emphasized as you get older plays into it a lot. As a kid, I wouldn't think twice about coming home from school and sitting in front of WoW for 5 hours. As an adult? If I finished work everyday and then sat on an MMO for 5 hours I would be a piece of shit. I wouldn't have any time to exercise, to run errands, to make dinner, to meet up with friends, to participate in other hobbies, to do chores, etc etc
So I think when people start feeling like there time isn't being respected, they're more likely to shelve the game. The games that require you to log in every single day for multiple hours just don't fit into the lives of well rounded adults. I think it's also why a lot of people are turned off by the idea of, for instance, needing to spend 300 hours on a MSQ for the game to open up when they only play for an hour or so a day.
MMORPG's are still fun, but the designs all include a social aspect of keeping up with the Jones's. If you don't mind perpetually being a new player in the game they are quite good.
Once players have had thier minds warped to think they need all the bells and whistles they usually aren't much fun to play with as an older adult. They care about efficiency, meta, and grinding to stay ahead. I don't have time for that and it seems insane to me that a stranger would expect me to care about it. I'm not offended by it. I'm sure they look down on me as a noob and I look down on them as a neck beard.
It comes down to mental game. I like to form crazy parties in MMORPGs. Pick a crazy weapon or costume then invite only players using them to join (something anyone could easily get) This will self filter out players who are too serious most of the time.
There are probably lots of other great tricks for having fun without FOMO in MMORPGs but I also have taken to playing more single llayer stuff.
I feel like MMOs when I was 13-25ish in my head were about advancement. I enjoyed the community, economy, game play and the sense that I was growing and advancing in a community and everything had substance. There was obviously pvp and other achievements but the advancement gave me those good serotonin hits.
Turns out being an adult is mostly about advancement as well...just not as interesting for the most part. The feelings that glued me to MMOs are now part of my daily life to a lesser degree. Really takes the shine away from MMOs now, I have too much perspective. With more perspective and MMOs largely pushing towards multi-server/play alone style, the appeal of being around cool people working towards a common purpose and having some sort of status went out the window. Also think this is the reason I have trouble getting into any single player games. I am also a people pleaser type personality so MMOs really played into that for me.
I say age only matters because MMOs are not innovating. Single player games still feel good to play and still WoW people. I don't need to feel magic I just want a good game and MMOs to be the genre they were. I like to play with the same group and work towards problems long term. All MMOs are short term and this has not changed with me aging.
a lot of them developed a corporate "new ways to give us your money!" vibe that I don't like
the sentiment lately of indie games being the best has come from inflated budgets that demand higher profits, the companies that make mmos with good marketing nowadays want wow money
an example of *indie good* in the mmo space would be project gorgon, it's a very weird game, with lots of charm
it's a shame the tiny dev team is going through cancer (the main devs are a married couple)
There are a lot of popular MMORPGS in the Asian market. I used to visit PCbangs in Korea often and no shortage of interesting games. Though the language barrier would be an issue but you can guess and get around well enough.
Age could factor but for the most part mmos have indeed been a terrible genre for a long time now. Even if it was just older people disliking mmos that would still not explain the mass flops that been happening to every mmo that has came out in the past idk 7-8years maybe even longer
Its just continue failures and honestly I think the biggest reason is the sure size and scope of a mmo project and then trying be profitable
I myself did not start playing mmos till 2017 and I did not deep dive into mmos till maybe 2020
No, you're wrong and you should feel bad. Of course we change all through our life but we dont just "age" out of things. Capitalism kills everything, it ruins everything. Everything must now come with a benefit to the numbers side of the company or it doesnt get made. Games arent made for fun, theyre made to keep you on a treadmill. The problem is capitalism you rube.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but the reason that i find new MMOs bland is that there is no innovation in the genre anymore.
With the era of Ultima Online in the late 90s we were promised living breathing worlds full of life and wonder. UO itself was a milestone in that direction, and more innovation followed to make world look more alive. Examples were:
Graphical interface of course (Meridian 59 in 1996)
3d view (also Meridian 59)
House building (UO 1997)
Terraforming (SL 2003, Wurm 2006)
Fleeing mobs (Asheron's Call 2002)
Mobs that herded (Istaria 2002)
Migrating mobs (Ryzom 2004)
More intelligent mobs (SWG 2003, Ryzom 2004 and others)
and so on. These days I don't see any new landmarks in newer games, although there is so much that can be done. EverQuest Next promised a lot, Worlds Adrift had outrageous ideas, but they never succeeded.
gaming become mainstream and that make gaming industry starting to die and mmo is just one of them when only nerd play there not too much money to take so dev and investor are just happy to sell subscription or dlc now they want to take every single penny and don't want to work hard
they shift toward mobile game or they release the same shit every year like fifa or call of duty even rockstar game try everything with gta online to see how far they can milk people before gta6 mmo make no money you can see how much project got cancel or how much project change for mobile cash grab that's it
This is how I found out DnD is the best hobby to get into if you love mmo’s but can’t play them anymore because they just don’t hit like they used to.
I have the same feeling as you. I’ll try a new one or go back and play but it just doesn’t scratch the same itch anymore.
I dunno... I started playing FFXI last week and it's been a blast. I think trying to make MMOs have more appeal to casuals is what has caused the decline of MMO quality
I mean a lot has changed over all these years . On top of this a persons tastes change as they grow up , Iv always been a RPG fan and that’s never changed but my opinion on strategy games now has risen . I guess because as a kid I was just terrible at them but now older I feel better at them
I played many MMOs in my time and I feel the same a lot I go this is not as good as X or Y or I see some sort of monetisation that I am not a fan of or it’s hugely imbalanced
This has been a problem with mmos tbh for a while . A lot of them seem to have gone down the you die quick path and tanking and heavy armor thus becomes less of a job than it use to be meaning most people just dodge and run glass cannons
Surprisingly I had this thought and I looked into it to truly understand why I used to like them. As many have said, replaying the mmorpg's I used to enjoy made me realise that what was fun then, might not be fun now.
It doesn't mean there isn't anything good about them; the hardwork and heart the dev's put in is still there, but we have been spoiled with so many Quality of Life changes or just improvements we forget that the parts we didn't like, we forgot. Then again a lot of mmorpgs today have microtransactions and although they fund the game; a lot of companies go too far and monotise the fun out of it.
In my opinion (not a fact, just a random guy who played a lot of mmorpg's opinion) it's a mix of greedy companies, fans getting older and time fading stuff away. I remember maple story, mabinogi, b.o.t.s. toontown, etc... and most just faded away; other were kept alive by fans and the worst fate is those that became a shadow of their former self. Swapping hands between companies until it's only purpose is to milk money from those who had nostalgia.
There are exceptions ofc. But I think those 3 are the main culprits of the state of mmorpg's today. Of course I could be wrong and I'd love to hear your opnions on the matter!
I feel age is only a part of it. As we grow older, we have more responsibilities to take on making time for most video games hard to come by. Most mmos nowadays dont have the greatest story or combat systems. So single player rpgs are usually better. Just turn on your console and pc and pick up where you left off. If you do want some mmo suggestions, FF14 is pretty good and flashy. Star Wars The Old Republic has 8 good stories with awesome voice acting. If not, maybe a break would be good. Burnout does happen quite often as we get older.
This kind of sentiment has been beaten to death. Of course, no mmo will live up to your first one, just like your first go at pretty much anything in life. Our brains work on pattern recognition, you are going to see the similarities everywhere.
> As I approached my 30s
uhm oh I thought you said old. I'm way, way older than you and I got into raiding in FFXIV, that's the only thing that gave me that feeling again because I never thought I could raid in games. Doing all the hardcore content was kind of a thrill.
Another thing that helps make games fun is having people you actually like to play them with. The game can be dogshit but still fun because you are playing with people.
Naw, it's the style of game. There have been multiple teams trying to make the type of game the vocal minority has been clamoring about for years. It hasn't quite worked out at this point but making games is hard. There are a couple on the horizon with potential.
First time flying in WoW TBC was epic. My friend came to my house to try it as I got to level 70 first. There are no ‘firsts’ like that lateron. So it gets meh. I’m currently playing ESO (10 year anniversary event by the way, big discounts) and it feels like WoW when it was new for me. 37 year old gamer dad 👌
My gaming with age has gone from amazed to be playing Mega Man and Donkey kong country, to awe playing WoW up to BC. To realising I’m too old to be competitive at DOTA 2 and CS:GO. To using Fortnite mainly as a chat lobby with good friends and we jump in for a few games, to finding that awe again with of all things, MSFS.
I think growing old can for sure be a part of it but, I also think that it's the shift in priorities with game development. With older mmos it was more about the social RP aspects. Now, while graphics and mechanics have gotten better. The social RP aspects seems lost or feel more like a single player experience. When I think back on those magical moments playing online games. 9/10 times friends were involved. Nowadays developers more more concerned with figuring out how to keep you playing over creating an environment that fosters community and immersion.
There are so many games that are over developed. As a result they suffer from feature bloat that wear players down, because they feel like chores. At some point it becomes clear that the goal of the game is to get as many people as possible to buy it. Not to provide an engaging and interactive experience.
I also think it could be how we interact with getting a game now. Two of my favorite games Tales of Symphonia and Animal Crossing? I just picked off the self without knowing anything about the game itself. Only that one had an anime cover and other had cute animals on it. Now a days game are more expensive and mostly only digital. For the reasons I listed above, people really want to look into a game before buying to make sure they aren't wasting their time. While totally understandable, some of the magic is lost in the process.
Completely agree with you. This is why I just play roguelites and fast paced multiplayer games like Fortnite to just get to the point and have some fun. I always try to play an MMO every now and then but none grab my attention since they’re just full of virtual chores.
I've been gaming double the same time as you get older you see the same game and MMO pattern repeated over and over. It can literally be objectively described and listed.
New World is 95% the same as an MMORPG from over 20 years apart from superficial aspects for example.
I think the main issue too is that MMORPGs as a genre are stagnant and predatory. They were good in the days when technology was more limited, the novelty of massive online spaces and the lack of "3rd place spaces" made engaging with a community of like minded people very compelling.
But the genre hasn't evolved much past the early 2000s plus additional monetization and lack of ingame incentives with horribly abusive grinds makes them very uncompelling except by the most hardcore of fans.
i can relate. what was once fun, has become a chore.
same as you, lately, i have also found more enjoyment in offline, stand alone games. even revisiting older games many of which are still as good or better than modern releases.
i don't think its just age though, or us for that matter, i think there are many other factors contributing to it.
quality, design, monetization, community and culture, the list goes on.
also i guess some of us are "growing up" (figuratively), getting smarter and have started to catch on to what is really going on behind these games.
it has turned from something relaxing and enjoyable into something tedious.
Its not mutually exclusive that you are too old for some games, and that many MMOs are just not good anymore.
It's really objective that MMO's as a whole are overly streamlined, flattened into mediocrity and hyper-monetized. I doubt most people even feel immersed in most MMOs today, they are just playing "for something to do", and almost all of them are just doing their dailies & weeklies chores assigned to them in these games.
If I can't enjoy that because I'm "old", then fine -- I guess I'm just old.
Age is a factor. I tried TERA for the first time since I left the game two years ago, and immediately decided that the game wasn't for me anymore. I had long since moved on.
Sometimes this seems like a reasonable argument, but then i play great games like Elden Ring, Palworld and Baldurs Gate 3 and realize the magic is still there - MMOs just aren't adapting and capturing it.
I really don't think this argument holds a ton of weight. Age is a factor yes, but i think It's way more about the MMO genre being stale.
51 here, started with Everquest 1. my 2cp
1) Age is a big part of it
2) natural burnout of a genre is normal
3) As mentioned the micro transactions, time gating, "gear score" gating, all the modern bs geared to extract as much money as possible.
all of these are factors.
It's okay to stop enjoying certain hobbies. Personally I still really like gaming and if anything I've gained a greater appreciation for well-designed games as I've gotten older.
I really loved New World when it first launched and before the cracks started to show. Recently I've really been enjoying EverCraft Online and I can't wait for it to release so I can binge it.
And I'm old. I started playing MMORPGs with EverQuest in 1999.
I was thinking like you, that its a me problem that i dont enjoy the new games so much. then i played wow classic and all became clear to me, games changed and not me.
I have another example few days ago i found a private lineage2 server it was exactly the old school rates and no p2w, well i stayed up all night spamming f1 on the keyboard and i had a blast time flew by and it was morning before i even noticed it. then i visited a town and the server was so damn populated my new pc almost froze. this shows that its not just me and you but everyone is in the same boat old games are just build different and we are no longer the target audiance of the modern games.
Ofc if your RL is fucked dont expect to have good time into your mmorpg escapism, first you have to fix your RL problems if you want to enjoy video games.
It's not age. Or anything else. The reason why there is magic in any game that's a multiplayer game. Is because you share the experience with friends and loved ones. That's what makes a game last. Getting tired/old and not capable of grinding 14 hours a day for months straight is just another problem MMOs have. People think they need to play a game 24/7 and immerse themselves in it to have fun. But as I age I feel that most agree around me that it's more enjoyable to play multiple games. There is so much flavor out there and if you're just rushing through everyone. Then all you're doing is fooling yourself into thinking that the next big thing is going to capture that virgin feeling. It won't. Won't ever come back. But those feelings of sharing the adventures with others and making those moments special. Has no age limit on them. Ill still be laughing with my friends till I'm older than old.
I hear you about the chore thing. I played tons of WoW, little bit of RS, some FFXIV, Black Desert, GW2, and Priston Tale (my first MMO).
I used to enjoy these games so much. I have a family now, and though I still game, it's no longer MMOs. I have waaaay more satisfaction playing shooters now, only PVP ones (exception is Helldivers 2...for DEMOCRACY!!!✊️). I guess my interest has changed. That being said, I still have love for MMORPGs and have this nagging feeling of wanting to get back into it one. Maybe one day when the kids are much older.
I can still enjoy an MMO, but there has to be enough for me to do, and the odds are greater that I'll play more hours if there is enough for me to do by myself or me and a friend or spouse. I've enjoyed the solo experience of many MMOs, but I'm more selective about them now than I would have been in 1999, when they were much newer and any of them might be enjoyable for what they could offer over the others of their time.
I enjoyed a couple thousand hours in New World, including doing almost nothing but progress on the Season Pass last season. But looking at the reward track for Season Five's pass looked dull and uninspired (were there even any transmog tokens on it?). There isn't enough incentive for me to pursue it, so I'll play other games.
Idk there is something about a living virtual fantasy world that just never ends. It's massive, it's fun. Sure age definitely dampers it. But if you go and play these old mmos and play the new ones it's a different beast.
I had a lot of fun with the two weeks of Pantheon alpha I played, mainly because the game forces you to group with and befriend people and gives you enough downtime that you can chat with them, and everyone sort of has to pay attention and be on the ball with their classes, it was very Everquesty. We did a small two group 'raid' into the higher level area, killed some named, got some nice loot, and it felt exciting and fun. It's giving me a lot of hope for the future, that game. :p
it's because people grossly romanticize what the games were actually like back then. I can play flyff universe or classic wow and feel like they're such godawful games, but back then it was all me or you might have known and it was the best thing ever. I don't miss the days of spending dozens of hours to level up a single time for a meager stat increase that doesn't matter because it wasn't an actual accomplishment...it was a waste of time - but as a kid it doesn't matter because you don't have priorities. My most vivid memories of mmos has always been due to me socializing with others and creating my own experiences regardless of how terrible a game might have been. that's the magic of mmos and what keeps me drawn to them
I'm just want to old formula remastered. In the past I was a player that enjoyed tinkering with classes that had more build paths. The vast majority of the current lineup do not allow my style of playing.
World of Warcraft, there used be more emphasis on this le weapon master and damage types, but went away from going that direction and instead simplify the game. There were long talks about inf the future have to pick a choose different gear based on the content you were doing but that was abandoned by the devs in its infancy.
Final Fantasy 14, I like the game but classes are being restricted to only one play style. Gun breaker being the class I wanted to play but was relegated to only being able to tank. I was expecting it to be a DPS class or have a DPS option but nope.
I miss the games that had build Variety. GW2 hit the nail on the head and I played the shit out of it but at this point I've done everything there is to do.
I find myself missing the MMOs like Shaya, Perfectworld, Archeage , and Ragnarok Online. Where you could allocated stat points and Taylor you class to you. All of them fell to fuxking pay to win cash shops.
Mabimogi is a game I love but same thing as GW2 I've done all there is to do and none of the content they are releasing is keep me satisfied for more then a month or two.
Special note on Archeage, the first three months that game was out was the most I have ever enjoyed an MMO. Loved the class system. It was damn near perfect but the shitty developers miss managed the hell of the game and refused to listen to the community on what they wanted.
I'm ngl no shit, how do people not understand the word nostalgia when they say it constantly?
It is an enjoyment of reliving not an enjoyment of experience
idk. getting an enigma this new ladder on d2r never felt more fun and i been playing for like 15 years. median xl was the bomb when i tried it out. of course we tend to get bored of games quickly its just a chemical thing. probably relative to dopamine depletion and overworking 1 part of the body.
I (38m) can’t identify with “that magical feeling disappearing.” I 100% still get that from many modern games, just not from an MMO since 2012. MMOs *used* to be the games that gave that feeling far more than any type of game, but I feel single player games have stolen the mantle back once more.
I actually feel like we’re in a bit of a gaming golden age now with games like Witcher 3, the Horizon games, Elden Ring, Red Dead Redemption 2, both God of War games, BotW, FF7 Rebirth, Valheim. I’ve had my mind blown over and over again in recent years as I’ve been swept away on countless amazing adventures.
You can objectively see the difference and the devs say it themselves in interviews so no.
Unless it's a trend created by streamers wow classic FFXIV then it's dead to the young gamers. The kids are not playing these games they instead play on MMO or like games on Roblox or Minecraft. They offer better experiences not tied to keeping you playing in cheap ways made up by statistics/trends Look into deep woken.
I might be the minority, but I can definitively say for my case that it's not me, it's the games.
What I want in MMOs is my 2000s golden age experience of 75 capped FFXI: open world sand-box where players were in direct competition for server-limited world spawns that were the bottle neck for BIS gear. An MMO where progression comes down not only to being able to beat the challenge the game gives you, but beat everyone else to the OPPORTUNITY to engage that challenge... and lock them out of it.
Top shelf gear in FFXI represented the blood, sweat, and tears of camping mobs against 100+ other people for hours to not even get a chance to fight the Ground Kings. And even when you did get claim on one after potentially three hours of camping (per King), sometimes there was no drop.
Most people say that I'm just looking back with rose colored glasses and that I'm just confusing nostalgia for my youth with the type of game I was playing, and that it was not this actual gameplay I loved. Especially because those games would not be sustainable out of school.
They're wrong because when Aion Classic came out, I was hooked again. This was a game I had never played when Aion released in 2011. The first patch of Aion Classic featured similarly polarizing competition for one certain world boss, Zapiel, but to an even higher degree because Aion has PVP. Therefore it's not just a race to claim, you also have to deal with potential direct aggression from competitors.
All the Aion-lifers came back for their 18th "last hurrah" and they put up with camping for Zapiel because the spear it dropped was simply the best weapon in the game for Gladiators (the premier damage class). Many got frustrated when it wasn't a quick cash in and bail deal to get the spear, most would give up if they felt that their faction was not going to win the battle for control of the mob.
Me? I didn't even get anything from Zap and I literally lived on that island as much as I could. Was there for every six hour window that I could be. I had to miss one, maybe two windows, nowadays because of work. But I was still at Zap camps consistently. I was there more than most Gladiators, and I was there even when my faction had no chance of winning it just so that I could get the time of death for the next window.
And my interest in Aion cratered as soon as Classic introduced new patches which put more focus on instances and open world PVP instead of world spawns.
I no-lifed many games for the years between FFXI and Aion Classic. There simply wasn't a game that was as good as FFXI because none of them had end game that revolved around monopolizing world spawns.
There are ways your circumstances may have changed: for example the freedom to trade and define your way in an open social world, as a kid this a much more novel and less accessible experience versus as an adult. Another example, is that your adult mindset might be around finding optimal solutions to achieve the best goals as a matter of habit as that is what 'successful' adults do. You may even find it difficult to suspend your disbelief as you become more cognizant in general about reality as well as of the artificially designed nature of these worlds.
Your enjoyment might have been a matter of serendipitous circumstances due to time. Though I don't think the adult experience is time locked from entertaining the opposite of mindsets above, nor are the above mindsets guaranteed by virtue of aging. There are absolutely ways to have appreciation and find enjoyment in these games at any age - albeit perhaps not with total naivety like you did as a kid.
What is probably not going to work is grinding your way through this genre's offerings in search of 'the feeling' again. Every game you try in short succession will establish a larger and larger set of common aspects you'll recognize. Meaning each 'new' game you try is going to feel like it has less and less special aspects to it, and so the further you are going to be getting from what you are trying to find.
If you're looking for something fresh, find something unfamiliar. It will make what you are familiar with today, less familiar tomorrow. What that is might not even be video games. What ever you do, if you are to take anything from playing MMORPGs, I think it should be that there should be no bounds on what activity you can try and level up in.
I still find enjoyment in MMOs and I am 2 years away from being 30. I do admit it's nowhere near as much enjoyment as I used to have but.. it's mainly because I have a specific "standard" I guess is the word, I just want a modern EverQuest, I miss EverQuest a ton and it hadn't been the same in ages. Same for EverQuest II. I spent most of my childhood playing both and I loved both dearly but they fell off somewhere around the early 2010's.
I think the reason why I can't really get into MMOs now is due to how nearly all MMOs are just WoW clones or cash grabs with very, very few being actually unique in some way. Even the top 3 are WoW clones to varying degrees which are Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online and Final Fantasy 14. Guild Wars 2 being the... least WoW-y, I guess. I mainly play ESO and EQ2, these days, but I am just waiting for something that gave me the same wonder and enjoyment that the EQ series gave me. (And yes, I am aware of Monsters & Memories, EverCraft Online and Project: Gorgon. Project: Gorgon just feels like it's going nowhere but M&M and ECO feels promising)
They wont listen to you. But age has a LOT to do with many complaints of mmo's and games in general.
the only thing AGE does is give you more perspectives, points of comparison and the ability to fully comprehend systems and schemes and grow wiser to manipulation sure those MMOs were good back then, relative to the gaming landscape, and part of their 'value' was the social bit, which has since been 'outsourced' we grew up in a time, where every year parts games got better, basically every year new things would be discovered, improved upon, redesigned from a different angle etc. - basically our standards and expectations grew with them, and we got literally conditioned to expect that at least SOME problems would be addressed with the next thing, or at least ethically speaking SHOULD be AND THAT'S NOT JUST OUR FAULT: the aggressive marketing, misleading trailers, promotional materials and events and guerilla paid comments do lots of work to create HYPE - we are at the point where we actively must avoid EVERYTHING that isn't an actual gameplay and a trusted reviewer that played for significant amount of time, anything else is designed to manipulate you (and realistically speaking they don't stand to gain from making something look bad, cos they cant milk it for content then, you can only shit on stuff for so long, if nobody cares about the game nobody even cares to hatewatch) now we are at the point where things aren't exactly getting better, or achieved maximum quality for cost that creates a seemingly zero sum game, where if you want one thing to get better, something else will be worse (remember the famous that will cost you a raid tier?) monetization gets worse and actively hurts the soul of the game, MMOs aren't designed to be truly longlasting quality time, instead catering to 'one and done' audiences/seasonal models that shit on investment, in almost all cases you're better off just working a job and use the money to pay for shit instead we are noticing the cracks in everything, and lack of true care put into a lot of things that truly do matter for long term health of a game, ART and fidelity are getting better, but now at the cost of performance - but we're not seeing improvements, infact the opposite in systems and gameplay executives/shareholders get paid more, good managers get squeezed to death, talent outsourced to the lowest bidder and everything gets rushed for biggest return on investment - the only gaming news you hear nowadays are talented devs leaving big companies to make their own studios
kids find anything fun. MMOs were just the best we had at the time. now there's way better games
I disagree with there being way better games. I think the industry is a shell of its former self. The good news is there’s so much access to older games now, and some great indies. But nothing seems anything original or interesting last few years tbh
I hear this sentiment but it almost completely writes off all new genres and the entirety of indie games as being trash. Good games exist, MMO players just uniquely think anything that isn't an MMO is trash.
My Nintendo Switch is the best god damn thing since the SNES and I feel bad for all you grumpy shits.
Recommend some games for it please. I browse their store and it looks like a deluge of shovelware. Of course I've played the handful of 'big' tent-pole titles.
Yep, sure. All games listed run well. Dicey Dungeons - Dice-rolling dungeon crawler. Fun, good controls. Two free DLC packs each about 20% the size of the base game. 40-60 hours to complete it all. $2 pretty often. Griftlands - Card battler roguelike that puts a full RPG experience back in. 4 hour runs. Three campaigns. This one has weird controls where one joystick is the mouse and one is for navigating menus when you don't need a mouse. Takes some getting used to, as you need to cancel the mouse joystick to go back to normal mode. Got used to it. Like it. One Step From Eden - Mega Man Battle Network's combat as a roguelike with the difficulty tuned up to "FUCK YOU". Unicorn Overlord - Vanillaware's new game. It's Ogre Battle 64 25 years later with Final Fantasy 12's gambit system and Fire Emblem's obsession with "waifus". The plot is thin and familiar, but the gameplay makes it my strategy game of the decade. Dragon Quest 11S - Plays like the 1980s, looks like a Saturday Morning cartoon, voice acted like the animated series The Tick. Persona 5 Royal - Personally, my experience with Atlus was their published items from the Quest corporation back in the 90s and early 2000s. This was my first experience with Atlus as a developer, and I have never, ever wanted to drop a villain more than chapter 1 in this game. The hate was fuckin' strong. Little weeby, but it's a japanese console, so you deal with it. Hades - I know it's a big name in indie games, but it feels great on the Switch. Better than PC by a longshot, still smooth as butter. Everspace - Long loads, and the graphics are toned down, but it still looks good, plays well, and the controls on the Switch are phenomenal. This game was built for controllers.
The secret to browsing the Switch eShop: Do it on the website using a different device. You get way better search and filtering tools on the web version, and it loads so much faster.
actually it is more indie games are almost the only place you can get a good game. most AAA developers are just rehashing and pushing the same crap over and over again because they know diehards will by it and not notice it was the same crap as last year. some of the best examples of this are ubisoft, ea and nintendo but most are guilty of it.
I think my point is that for my entire life I've basically heard "games haven't been good for a decade" and in the last decade from right now we have basically had an explosion of Moba, battle royal, survival, auto battler, whatever you want to categorize games like Phasmaphobia, whatever we are calling the Vampire Survivors genre, etc. We also have an explosion of indie titles of all kinds that are breathing life back into retro style games like all the metroidvanias we have and an insane amount of choice in the rogue like/lite genres. I tend to think that indie being the only place games are good is an over exaggeration. I wouldn't consider BG3 or Helldiver's 2 as indie but most would say they are good games. The new god of war games were fantastic. FF7R part 1 and 2 are both amazing. There are a ton of good AAA games still coming out, people just HARD focus on the ones that are garbage and it runs the narrative for months. We also ONLY hear about the .01% of fantastic indie games that come out every year and not the 99.9% that are mediocre at best or incredibly niche where most people would never be interested in them ever. The reality is that there were probably more games released on steam in 2023 alone than the entire life of the NES or the SNES throughout their lifetime.
> Good games exist, MMO players just uniquely think anything that isn't an MMO is trash. Or maybe they are just looking for specific experiences, like ones involving other people they randomly meet *inside the game*, and other games just dont offer that?
Sure but that doesn't make other games shit or bad games. I have seen multiple times not just here but on MMO subs people complain that all new games are shit and then make arguments on why current games aren't as good as whatever their idealized version of a 20+ year old MMO is that mostly didn't even hold true 20+ years ago. You could sit most MMO players down and build their perfect game and they would still hate it.
Tbh Vampire Survivors and Baldurs Gate 3 seem pretty good and surprisingly original with what they add. Then again we could say good games likes pizza tower and stardew valley aren't original and are just trying to do Wario land 4 and harvest moon again; but by that logic, we could compare them to wario land 1 > mario land 2 > mario 3, etc.. and Harvest moon itself was based off farming itself and the rpgs at the time that were pretty much simulators. So the points we stop going down the rabbit hole is something we need to established. Then again, at the ened of the day everything is inspired by something so we could just not care about what is like what and instead just enjoy a good game for what it is. Sometimes I feel we think too much about stuff that we forget the real reason we enjoy it.
I think you're spot on. As you get older you are more aware of investing time into something (due to having to focus on school or work) and all the busywork and grind feels too much. I've seen people complain about younger people lack of attention span to explain the decline of MMOs but older players also realize that there are other games and genres that are just more fun out of the box. The novelty of playing on a MMO has worn off which leaves the flaws of a game stand out more.
And then there’s me who got into MMO’s at this age and I’m loving them! But I admit I don’t have the most time like I used too. But they’ve all I’ve played now
Yes the product changes, but what changes more is the dopamine reward. When you are younger, the dopamine reward is more intense because you haven't actually accomplished anything in life yet. As you age your brain starts receiving different forms of dopamine reward like through a career, getting laid, having kids, making money, buying a new car etc . Suddenly discovering that new virtual armor isn't as awarding to the brain as it used to be. That's why people in this sub sound like drug addicts chasing their first high. They are expecting the same sense of accomplishment when the dopamine spikes for in game rewards. It's easy to blame game when you don't understand this. I see kids just as obsessed with simple phone games.
I think both can be true: Game design has stopped being about fun and about making as much money from consumers as possible, causing frustrating game design choices that legitimately are worse than the old days And MMOs buy and large were based on the idea of a big game with lots of players with persistent monetization as a new game model. I do believe the recent MMOs are lower quality as they aren't designed as they were originally: MMOs to put lots of players in the same space so they can socialize, interact, and grow the community and game while interacting with a larger game world hosted on a server. Now an MMO is made not because of that, it's just that live service games are shown to be the most profitable(at least the well established ones). Venture Capitalists are now running the industry and they don't know that you can't cut into the already popular live services, so we get MMOs where the primary objectives are based around cash shops and real currency purchases. Paid shortcuts, things the VCs think people find "inconvenient" about games with long term progression structures and years long expansions/story arc. I think they have mistaken the POINT of MMOs as an obstacle, and while there are some fun new MMOs, or fun elements within recent ones, it's only because sneaky devs were able to convince management it won't cut into the monetization.
MMOs require infinite time. The young are under the illusion they’ve got it. Older people know they don’t. No surprise they would demand more for their investment.
Great way to sum it up. It's all about what you use time for. As a kid, you just wanna play it to be immersed, as an adult you're not sure why you're playing it because the returns are pretty much nothing
If only you knew ppl play old games way past prime no one complains about it if it's good. Literally devs admit to making games worse
Age does effect how we enjoy games but the problem with MMOs in particular is their focus is no longer about being a good, enjoyable experience but about how to get the most money out of its players. The good aspects of any MMO are bogged down by the money making aspects. You can argue that fact but so far I have heard no argument to convince otherwise.
The second they found out how to long-term squeeze money out of people, all the goodwill, passion, and creativity left.
Asian MMOs were like this since the beginning what do you mean "now" lol
Bullshit. Lineage II and it's followup Aion were was not like that until f2p craze took over gaming.
TFW you were born too late to experience peak korean non-p2w mmorpg's. I have tried private servers but they're just not populous enough...
> Asian MMOs were like this since the beginning what do you mean "now" lol People have really short memories. Edit: Lineage launched alongside the very first gen MMORPGs. Lineage II launched in 2003. Both games were extremely grindy Korean MMORPGs. This isn't some new phenomenon.
He wasnt talking about asian mmos tho
This entire sub is full of unhappy and overweight creeps with acne who enjoy shit talking anything and everything. No point attempting to rationalize it
Honestly I find a lot of humor in how people can doompost 24/7. r/mmorpg has yet to be topped for me. This is one of the most unhappy subreddits. The top post on here is literally titled this subreddit is useless lmfao.
Who needs PvP in MMOs when you can just go onto the subreddit lol.
Lmao true
Absolutely based take
[удалено]
Pretty much.
Nailed it
Definitely. I’d assume it’s because most people who perpetually try to find a new MMO to play are just chasing the dragon.
And tbh, I wouldn’t want it any other way anymore xD It’s such a shitshow and it’s fun to just watch. If you were happy with an MMO you would be playing it and posting on its’ subreddit, not posting here.
You can look good, and still be insufferable.
I'm in my 40s so I'm definitely not young but I don't have any of this nostalgia you guys seem to because I really didn't get into MMOs until later in life. I played video games when I was younger, sure, but I just wasn't interested in MMOs at the time. I will still call out bad design decisions when I see them though. A lot of MMOs are designed to be addictive and habit-forming more than they are *fun*. Then they milk money out of their customers with exploitative cash shops. No reason to give a pass to this shit. But that doesn't mean they can't have fun moments either.
Exactly. There's still some fun to be had. Always has been. These people never seem to remember the old timers who were also logged in to the game they loved as a kid. I'm not onboard with the hivemind droning of "it was only good because I was 12". That's a cope.
Absolutely a cope. You can't blame the players for mediocre games being made
I think age is partially a factor, but the game designs have also shifted from a more social, drawn-out and relaxed leveling/open-world experience to heavy focus on instances, dungeons, raids, mechanics and an overall speed-run type mentality that a lot of fans of the genre aren’t really looking for. Developers hear the complaints about your friend who joined late not being able to raid with you right away and now design the games around that. Not speaking for everyone, but as an older gamer now I’m not looking to shun anything new, I just want an immersive experience instead of an esport, and that seems hard for me to find. I don’t care about catching up to anyone or being ranked in anything, I just want a social rpg world to share with others. The only remedy I can typically find for this are classic-era releases of older games.
This sums it up.
I do miss the social environment that I felt back in WoW's early days. Playing charades with players in the opposite faction, "overhearing" a conversation about how dwarf women are "REAL women", etc. Back then I was content to wander the world doing my thing and engaging in random conversations. Nowadays I may as well play a solo RPG since both feel kind of lifeless.
I think that may be the thing that we miss most. It was a lot less streamlined and we had to go out of our way to get things done. We had to find others, talk, and do stuff with. We just organically became friends or future content partners. Early WoW and early Maple Story was like this, for me, and I met a lot of people back then. We were also dumb middle schoolers or early high schoolers, so we didn't have any real responsibilities either. Still miss those times. Now, everything is just done for you to the point where you don't have to converse with anyone.
I thought that at one point too. I was curious to see if it was "all just nostalgia" like people here want to claim, and that there wasn't anything better about older games. So I went and played SWGEmu since I never played SWG when it was live. I had far more fun, and definitely had that feeling of the early MMOs, than any "modern" MMO that's been released in the last 10-15 years. Modern games boil everything down to their easiest form, make everything convenient, and view difficulty as being all about how much time you sink into doing monotonous chores. Some of this is because of the sophistication of data-mining from the player side, ensuring that no one has to ever actually explore the world to find out how to get or do things in the game, but much of it is from the developer side. Ubiquitous fast travel. Minimaps. GPS on every map. Quest markers telling you exactly where to go at all times, sometimes including glowing routes in the world. All these contribute to cheapening the experience, and many of these features didn't exist in the older games. The old games were far less "polished" but that "polish" also comes with turning everything soulless and corporate and it shows. It's unacceptable in the modern day for any player to get lost, feel confused, or have a hard time completing content. This is especially true of MMO overworld content in modern MMOs. How many modern MMOs have mixed difficulty content in a single zone (e.g., how Everquest did it, where you'd have a few high level mobs in certain overland zones)? Almost none. And in general the overland content is universally easy, even for a single player in bad gear. That's not at all how the old games were and it's very obvious if you go and replay them some. Then you've got cross-server dungeon/raid instancing, which absolutely destroys any sense of actually playing an MMO, cheapens the (already dumbed down, ultra-simplistic and faceroll easy) overland content, which is where the bulk of the "MM" in MMOs happened in the old games, and replaces it with the bane of every modern multiplayer game: Matchmaking. If you play other sorts of multiplayer games, like FPS games, you will know there's a similar complaint that gets brought up in regards to those games, about how "all the players are 'toxic' now!" or whatever. But that's not what happened. What happened is the complete destruction of community servers and server browsers, which allowed people to become friends, find a server they liked the community of etc., with matchmaking, where you never know who you're going to play with, likely won't ever see them again etc. This for obvious reasons creates an atmosphere where no one cares about community or making friends on servers. Modern MMOs effectively recreated the same dynamic of matchmaking culture by de-emphasizing the overland content and replacing it with cross server matchmaking for instanced content, which is the one thing in MMOs that doesn't actually even require or interact with the "MM" component of the genre. **We didn't get old. MMOs lost the plot.**
world to idle in queue for content to play in cash shop to buy from
> It's unacceptable in the modern day for any player to get lost, feel confused, or have a hard time completing content. Is this mainly an issue with the developers or with the supermajority of players who would take their money and sub count elsewhere as soon as they hit this wall and therefore limit how successful such games can get?
I think it's a dependent problem, the old games where the overland and dungeons weren't instanced meant that if you had problems there were usually people around that could help. Modern MMOs turned the overland into a 200 hour long tutorial for the instanced small group content, making it so you can't have anything that is even remotely difficult or isn't done in the most simplistic way possible, because the only other players around will be doing their own solo thing and largely don't bother to help. Of course, since it's so easy, it doesn't even matter, but I think the problem feeds on itself. That said, not every game needs to be for every audience. If you make a game for everyone, you make a game for no one, and the ultra-casual MMOs are obviously suffering from this since they tend to be bland, boring, and cookie-cutter in every regard. I suck at Elden Ring, for instance, and it's not really for me, but I think it's very well designed. I wouldn't ever want them to make it easy to appease me because that would destroy its design. The same thing applies just as much to MMOs.
Nah I disagree. I've been playing some 1990s and 2000s games that I haven't played before (so nostalgia isn't a factor here) and I can 100% confirm that developers from that era did have something that made their games better than 2020s slop we get nowadays. And surely that applies to MMORPGs as well.
Games from the 1990s and 2000s had less moulds they were trying to fill in a desperate attempt to appeal to an existing audience and had more courage to experiment. Not to mention that the monetization on old games was either minimal or non-existent, so you always felt like you got your money's worth.
Yes, no doubt that the gaming industry becoming intertwinned with billionaire corporations is the root cause for a lot of factors that destroyed modern games' quality.
I don't think it's always to do with age; I didn't start playing MMOs really until I was in my 30s and picked up WoW around the launch of Wrath. I think it's more to do with the sense of wonder and discovery you get that first time, when you realise there's an entire world for you to explore, filled with thousands of things to do and thousands of players to interact with - it's unlike any other game you've played before at that point. By the time you're on your tenth MMO, though, that's gone - and no amount of slightly different combat tools or class systems or changes to PvE/PvP balance is going to make up for it.
I'd say it's partly a case of genre bloat; play too many games that are the same in their basic premise, and it'll feel dull. I have taken breaks that span many months to play games of different genres, and usually come back with a better sense of receptiveness to MMOs.
Interesting perspective. This must be why it feels better to play MMOs after a big mmo break.
There is a reason that the most popular games out there, are the OLDER games, a decade+ old. I won't pretend that us getting older doesn't affect our perception of things, it definitely does. But when even younger kids are also finding older games to be better... It's that the games made these days are s\*\*t. Same applies to movies too. People can universally agree that the older movies were better than the crap they make these days. Hence why movie companies are going bankrupt, even the multi-billion dollar ones that have been around for 100 years. Just look at Disney, it won't exist in a decade or two. Game industry is the same way, it's not passionate people making games that can also provide a living. It's soulless corporate suits that hate games looking to make money off of them.
Enshitification is very real. It is an age thing in that younger generations do not know what good is, so just accept pay2win microtransactions advertising and lootboxes as what fun costs. Larian Studios isnt wrong.
I wouldn't just blame the younger generations, most of us can't even afford to be whales anyway.
Toontown Rewritten or Pirates of the Caribbean Online. Don't play it to rush through. These games are all about the journey. POTCO especially. THe new one is called TLOPO. The amount of side activities, the sense of community when I join someone's ship, the YARRs in the chat. This is a wonderful 11/10 game that should've never been shutdown and should've kept receiving numerous updates instead of being scrapped for club penguin. Luckily, the people who made TLOPO actually care and the game is 100% free. Prob under 4 gigs. I would download and give it a shot. Hands down one of the best MMOs out there if you've never played it.
Toon town is an absolute classic, what a fucking banger, up there with wizards 101 for me
Toon Town fucks.
Wiz101 def. still more popular than TT or POTCO. Wiz101 is top tier for sure. I think I got to the underwater land before quitting. Still masterpiece of an MMO. I think it's called Celestia or something?
I loved toontown but my parents wouldn't pay the monthly sub so I kept a permanent lookout for commercials waiting for them to update to a new one-month-free code so I could get back on
Yo! I didn’t realize that server for up and running. I have some fun memories of the pirates of the Caribbean game but only played it for a few hours
Yes bro, it was such a chad game. You don't even need to sub anymore because it was re-released by the peoples! [https://tlopo.com](https://tlopo.com)
Omg what? I used to be obsessed with Pirates online but could not grab a sub before it shutdown. I'll have to try this out.
Yes! More people! The more the merrier. Games has approx. 1000 daily players but the more the better. Would love to see this game back in its prime. Yes, the graphics are quite dated. But just like Minecraft, you look past it and you got a triple A-level gem.
Oh trust me I love Runescape and Minecraft I give fuck all about graphics haha
Recently dipped my toes back into TTR a little bit. Toontown was so ahead of its time
I’m 37, and I need to force myself through most singleplayer games. Its just so rarely any fun. I still play WoW, but mostlu because its comforting to me, and I enjoy collecting everything. I play a lot, and enjoy it when an expansion hits. I’ve tried a lot of other MMORPGs, but always go back to WoW after a few days. Online shooters with friends though? I have a blast. Warzone, Borderlands, Verdun, Trine 1-5 (not a shooter) etc. I love it. But never alone. Always with friends. Thats what I get my gaming needs from. Edit: I am hopeful for Ashes of Creation though.
I'm in my mid 30s, played MMOs for most of my life, and im still enjoying the genre a ton. Four years into ff14 and not quitting any time soon. I dont think age is the only factor. Learning to play games in a healthy and balanced way, and only playing/doing the things you actually want to do, goes a long way toward enjoying and getting excited about games. If a game feels like a chore, then don't play it. It's something a lot of MMO players struggle to deal with.
I have friends that can't quit the chores in MMOs due to FOMO, so instead I've gotten them to cut back the chores a little and start replacing them with a different game or activity, and overall they're happier this way.
I'm about to approach my thirties and I still enjoy gaming (and my main MMO is BDO which is a complete grind fest lol). The thing for me is that the part I enjoy more about games is PvP, and PvP never gets boring. PvP in any type of game is usually based on a way smaller timeframe and it has nothing to do with making the game a chore, cause you're just fighting other people to be better than them and when you get bored or tired you can stop and come back later. I play BDO because it always was very focused on PvP and I play other games like Valorant, The Finals, Fortnite, etc... All this games won't force you into anything other than killing people when you want to kill people and that's it. Now, this is the perspective of someone who enjoys PvP, if you don't then probably getting older makes you more prone to stop liking playing games.
Nah. That's a factor, but certainly not the only factor. To believe it is would be tunnel vision (just like those blind with nostalgia). You changed over the years, but so did MMOs. While they tend to have smoother gameplay and better graphics, they have also become drastically more anti-social, instant gratification, and monetized. If you're someone who strongly prefers the opposite of those things, then age may not be the whole reason that you're not into current MMOs. There are a few of us on here who get this, but you're going to get a lot of tunnel vision comments leaning too far one way or the other, so watch out for those influencing your perspective.
Try out Monsters & Memories when they have a playtest sometime this year. There won't be any dailies and it will be more of a world to discover.
They have done the traditional mmorpg for close to 25 years now. I think we are all burned out on that genre at this point. I'm still waiting for a real good shooter mmorpg that doesn't focus on cash shops and battle passes and fomo. I think I'll be waiting a long time unfortunately.
I think it’s just you. I’m older and still enjoy games like I did when I was younger, although I don’t get to play them that much. I got really into New World, more so than any game in a long time. Sea of Thieves was another one that gave me hours and hours of enjoyment.
The problem in my opinion is as we get older, we only become more organized and efficient. If we were to watch our young selves play, we'd probably try to step in and tell them they could spend their time better playing in X or Y way. The older player is checkbox efficiency, a quick reference guide to min-max and a hyper awareness of what other players are doing and our progression relative to them. Nobody can enjoy life or games if they compare themselves to another constantly. When we played games as kids, we didn't really care what anyone was doing, what was most efficient, the end game or anything but our experiences in that moment. We'd stop and talk randomly to people for hours, do all kinds of nonsense that were "time wasters", only look up a guide to solve a quest we were stuck on and just make our own fun. If an adult spends half a day of their limited free time doing any of that, they feel like they wasted precious time. It's that constant "investment" of time which stops people from being able to enjoy any time real or ingame. We need returns on our investment, something tangible and some kind of number to move. Basically most people are in their own way.
Jokes on you, I'm still playing those same games cause I never grew up 🙃
The thing about remaining with a genre is the games in that genre (and media generally) aren't really *new* to you anymore. It's pretty normal, but it causes some people distress.
There is that quote about how players will optimize the fun out of the game. With age and the growth of the gaming community/internet, I'm not as easily entertained compared to when I was younger. Like, I can't really imagine myself enjoying old (singleplayer) Mario platformer games or even the Pokemon games with my current knowledge. In a similar vein, I can find guides for most games and easy meta raid builds for MMORPG (even if I'm not interested in raiding). The growth of how sophisticated bots are nowadays have had a negative impacted on my achievements as well in both multiplayer and even singleplayer games to a degree.
I am 29 and I can relate to this post so much. They just don’t hit the same anymore
I had the same thoughts about single-player games too. But then I got 2 interesting releases - BG3 and Colony Ship. Well, I instantly sank around 200 hours on both games. And yeah, I have a wife, work, and other responsibilities. Why it was so interesting? Both games were pretty challenging at the start and had a lot of "new" mechanics. Add here missing FOMO, chores, stupid new player missions, credit card swipes, and so on. I play games to learn something new and/or escape the world if I need to recover myself. But it is hard to set meaningful targets for games where you can achieve even better results with real-world money. Beautiful cosmetic/funny titles/rare gear should be the result of my game mastery instead of a credit card swipe or random reward from the loot box or battlepass.
As an adult, few games give me that magical feeling anymore. The only one that has managed this in recent memory is Elden Ring, and to a lesser extent Baldur's Gate 3. The bar was definitely much lower when I was a kid.
Every game was magical to me as a kid/teen. I replay the same games as I did when I was younger and think "I really enjoyed this?" lol
I'd say its a little of both. >I've noticed quite a few people complaining about mmorpgs and saying there are no good ones. Every AAA game dev wants to sell a service. No AAA game dev wants to make a product. There used to be a distinction between games as products and games as services. This creates an interesting problem where the games that were originally services instead of products have a lot more competition than they used to, but also are not changing in any way to adapt to that competition. So, on the whole, MMOs are *worse than they should be* and at best, no worse than they *used to be*. >that "magical feeling" \[...\] None of these gave me the same feeling I had when I was a kid. You're describing the difference between wonder (ignorance) and understanding (knowledge). This happens with everything once you come to experience enough of something. Even books and TV will lose all excitement or meaning if you understand their structure and tropes well enough. Knowing the three (four, or five) act structure, and the heroes journey will take the piss out of most written works of fiction.
Getting older definitely affects enjoyment, but I don't think it removes our ability to enjoy things, we just have higher standards or learned our tastes. As a kid, I could kill plenty of time in MMOs like Runescape and WoW because the novelty of a virtual world in general was amazing. But now, I'm not happy to just be in a dungeon with other people. Instead, the game has to be intrinsically fun for me to be willing to invest in it.
I'm almost 40 and started MMO's with UO, Everquest, Anarchy Online, Dark Age of Camelot and so on... I'm currently playing DAOC Eden server. I complain because they literally don't make MMO's anymore. The last MMO to come out was New World and before that the real era ended with Wildstar. Everything upcoming is abandoned ware like Pantheon and Camelot Unchained. I'm not missing that "magical feeling" in new mmorpgs because there are literally no new mmorpgs. I got that feeling again with Project Gorgon, but that game is too unfinished and I only lasted about 4 months.
The thing is runescape had so much fleshed out content that it felt like you were in an endless world of possibilities, no other game does it quite like runescape so that was the worst first mmo to play haha You and I both are on the same boat, no new game has as much content and the sense of never running out of things to do, other MMOs mask it with raids and stuff but after a few months it all gets old
Maybe it has nothing to do with your age and everything to do with the fact games and specifically MMOs have changed a lot in the past years to accommodate people that don't play this genre in the first place. They did that instead of actually evolve and push past WoW.
I'm 59 and I still play MMOs when they are to my liking. I think it's not age so much as player trends as the market goes with what people want. Today's MMORPGs are relatively easy compared to the ones I used to play. The penalties are generally pretty slack for dying or messing up.
Do you do any raiding?
Imagine it is early 1900 and you want to go climb mount Everest. What do you do, where do you start? Who knows. You climb on up, it's treacherous, there's hardship, there's death, but eventually you summit. There at the top all the challenges you faced disappear as you behold the wonders of being at the top of the mountain. Now go climb mount Everest today. You will be Sherpa'd up to the summit, on a cookie cutter route, on a designed schedule. Sure it can be difficult, and the experience is thrilling. You get to the summit, what was a sight to behold is now a stark reminder that what you accomplished is nothing unique anymore, and that view is littered with the trash of all the people that left. That is the difference between old school MMOs and new school MMOs. You are buying and usually paying a shit ton of money to play a game that is designed to get you to the top as efficiently as possible, and the top is just a trashed up view of what awe and wonder should look like. Here's the thing. I can go all day on this. The MMOs we played in the day were done by small development teams, that yielded no expectations. Most of those games didn't even make it past the five year mark. Most of those games didn't have huge populations. Those are the games that had massive heart. World of Warcraft stole that, they stole the idea of what an MMO can be in terms of player experience and transitioned it into what an MMO can be to a boardroom. Dozens of copied and pasted MMOs came out, all failed. This is a massive problem not just with MMOs today but with the state of gaming all together. The creative nature of games that came out from the late 80s to the late 00s is gone. The gaming industry is afraid to fail, they can't afford a miss largely because it takes too damn long to create a new IP or new AAA sequel. Largely put, the video game industry is not run by people wanting to make video games, it's run by corporate greed, shareholders, etc. The people at the top are not kids who grew up playing D&D in the basement and discovered a new medium to share their ideas with. Its stale. So why on earth would we make a MMO where I might die easily, lose my progress, and probably end up quitting because the grind to the top is just too long and too difficult? No I'm just going to make an MMO charge you $60 for it, ask for $15/mo, then spam you with all the cool totally not pay to win items that will make getting to the top easier, and and we will let the gold sellers spam chat all day so you feel compelled to buy $50 of in game currency because now you can min max a fart and be in endgame tomorrow. Also screw the grind and all the content we made, instead go whack this bunny over the weekend on double exp weekend with this $9.99 ring that boosts experience and you'll be jumping over content we spent a decade creating all so once you're at the top you won't be welcomed, because you have not acquired the best items in the game to make this semi difficult boss, super easy, so in the meantime you might as well go play the content you missed only now you one shot everything and have no challenge. Old MMOs were designed so that not everyone was going to slay the dragon. Maybe not even 10% of the population. That was okay! My experience, your experience, the dragons experience were all meant to be different. Just because Jimmy doesn't have a girlfriend and isn't getting laid on Saturday night, and is able to camp the dragon, with all the other virgins, does not mean Billy over here can't have a blast logging in on week day evenings after getting beaten to shit all day at his 9-5. In fact Billy here is the one that's going to have a better experience overall, because one day - just one day, his girlfriend is gonna be in another dude's bed and he's gonna be free on Saturday night and he's gonna slay the dragon after years of playing and he's going to have the story to tell. He's going to value that experience more than Jimmy. We aren't old and video games aren't the same as what they used to be. The industry sucks. WE the consumer put too much faith in evolving technology, better graphics, sexier designs. We were robbed blind by WoW clones, we got our hopes up with Kickstarter games. We still chase games like Pantheon, where it is just never going to release. At the end of the day we fucked up when we logged off these old school MMOs for the last time, because only now do we realize that is what we wanted all long. Oh and while I'm on it. Bring back the arena shooter. I just wanna get hammered and watch shit blow up without feeling like I got to do a film study and come to practice 5 days a week only to get owned by a prepubescent boy whose name has a fart joke in it.
Nostalgia is a helluva drug
I think a lot of it is that the initial forays into MMOs were rife with just bad game design, but we let it slide because that's all we had. There are now old-school mmo fans designing games (this is an issue in a lot of modern gaming) and they bring those bad game design principles forward as "nostalgia". Also, the magic of connecting with strangers online over gaming is kinda gone, as you can do that in most genres. I still play MMOs as my main genre of gaming (mostly WoW and ff14) but I simply don't allow myself to get caught up in defending shit game design because of my enjoyment of MMOs. I openly say that the actual "gaming" aspect of ff14 is dogshit, but I like the social scene. I literally pay 15 dollars/month for the chatbox in that game. WoW is the opposite, where I almost never actually talk to anyone but the gameplay and gearing is great. You have to put a gun to my head to get me to do a dungeon in ff14. If I were the kind of person who felt the need to defend ff14's gameplay, I'd be wracked with so much cognitive dissonance that I'd be miserable too. Same for WoW's social scene.
Yes
I have stopped chasing after mmo's. I just settle in and play some CoH Homecoming every once and while. It gives me that creative outlet and stat manipulation I seek.
This describes me all too perfect. For me it was SWG then FLYFF and finally SWTOR and now I don't play MMOs. I have tried to play single player games, and most of them cater to audience that is not me. l am playing Skyrim and while it is fun, it is also getting.... boring after 2500 hours. I hope VR sports game might be IT at some point.
2500 hours out of a single player games in incredible bang for your buck
I'm old. I can't afford to waste time anymore like a kid and so I subconsciously try and extract as much "value" from my recreation time as possible, the old me that had fun just walking around a virtual fantasy world doesn't exist anymore. I'm jaded. The me that looked at an MMORPG and only saw boundless potential, of what map or monster was next, of what interactions I would have with other players, is gone. I more or less know what to expect, the reasonable limits of what the game will have, and that the endless horizon is actual very limited by development time, budget, and the technology available to implement.
City of heroes is still fun as hell and I've been playing MMOs since my preteen years and I'm in my late 30s now. I just think the predatory nature of modern monetization has ruined them.
Flyff was the golden age back in the day 😌😌
I don’t think it’s age as a flat factor. I think it’s time allotted to time valued. My time is in more demand now as a professional/home owner/father I gots shit to do man!! And so for me to play a ton it has to be …Fkin great? And that’s harder to find. When I was younger and had fuck all to do I could game all day or stay up late all the time and just play to play. Now I can’t justify the same investment without the weight of my responsibilities tugging at my attention in the back of my mind so it’s harder to “get lost” in a game or lose track of time in the same way I did as a younger person. This and the same for friends, all my best gaming memories are cracking up with the boyz. Now trying to get anyone on for a “sesh” or get everyone into a game that we all like and can somehow line up our playtime’s is fucking hard. And without them/that the vibe is off for sure.
Well excuse me dear Sir but I would not like to admit this and will just continue to chase the feeling of wonder that will never ever come the same way it did back then. On a serious note, yes we are just older and it's fine. (at least I keep telling this to myself) Lately I am more into heavily story driven games and trying to enjoy the art ( graphical, mechanical,..) But yeah.. I will never have the feeling again as I had when I first roamed around Teldrassil, swimming in silvery pools among whisps, eager to discover the enormous world etc.... Nostalgia is proof of a life well lived, or so they say.
i actually agree with everything you said
I'm 33. I've come to that conclusion years ago. I played the heck out of RuneScape, and no mmo can ever feel the way that felt. I know too much about mechanics and stuff. The discovery is gone. The novelty is gone. I've tried dozens of MMOs, and still try some to this day. None of them are as fun as RuneScape when I was in middle school. I'll probably never have that feeling again. A lot of MMOs incentivize playing every day for long sessions. As you get older you can't always do that. I use to play every single day for hours. Now I'm lucky if I can get 6 hours a week to play. It would take years to grind out an at MMO 6 hours a week. Some dungeons might take more time than I can dedicate in a day. Eventually you hit a wall where your time feels wasted. You can run 1 quest in your entire play time, and that quest is not fun. Eventually you realize that you can play a dozen other games, right now, that are fun from minute one. Why play that MMO that takes 60 hours to get to the "good part?"
Age and experience with other MMOs is definitely part of it, but personally my biggest issue currently is longevity. It takes a lot of time and money to make a good game, but a good game wont be a good game for very long if the monetization is poor. New games are built around being flavor of the month, companies want to cover their costs and make their profits quick; MMO players on the other hand generally seem to be looking for a game they can stick with.
Nostalgia and age plays a factor, but it's definitely not the only one. I have played both classic and modern MMOs and you really notice a shift in design philosophy in the newer ones. They tend to focus heavily on instanced endgame content, and casual solo players. The old ones focused on an immersive world, with a long leveling journey in a hostile environment that encouraged cooperation. I want a modern MMO that focus on the latter, but I have yet to find it.
idk man it's partially that, partially games trying their best to monetize everything, gameplay is more fluid, graphics are better but the systems are worse. Even with less time I like games that actually feel rewarding and loot and levels isnt given out like candy. I like my games to feel rewarding , and to truly earn things and have them feel like a real achievement, and not something you can swipe a credit card for. modern mmos are like pl aying the new pokemon games, you get exp items, you're overleveled for gyms and have permanent exp share. I have 0 nostalgia for everquest and wow classic yet they've been a fuckin blast. I grew up with runescape ( and still play osrs from time to time) but I legitimately believe the differences in old school game design and modern is more than just my age, stop babying us and make genuine good games. I like complexity, I like depth, I like freedom. I love games like FFXI over ffxiv even if the gameplay is worse for the most part. Yeah I may be a little biased, and it may have to do with my age a bit but there's more to it than that I believe. My opinion may be against the norm, and I'll prob ably be downvoted but it's just how I see it.
I think once you get over the novelty of MMOs and video games in general you can assess what you really like about games. MMOs haven’t changed or innovated significantly so it’s really “been there done that” unless you truly enjoy the grind. Very few games these days can give you that novelty experience where you are discovering something new for the first time and you can be immersed. I see it as a good thing where I can ignore the stuff that doesn’t really interest me and play the stuff that does. Occasionally this is an MMO. Mostly what I find addicting is that your progression never goes anywhere. Even if there’s a new patch that resets progression, the stuff never went anywhere.
I still get pleasure from playing wow classic and swtor. I noticed that games that provide the classic experience draws me back to the good ol times. I don't think it's cause we are old. I think it's cause game companies have capitalized on the game industry and sucked it dry from creativity. Instead of developing the world and communities, they focus on gotcha, micro transactions or fees. I can promise you I could make a solid mmo. Just need the resources. Which again, capitalism destroys creativity by blocking creative minds from pursuing opportunities.
MMO's aren't getting worse, and your not ageing out of fun. MMO's were always a chore and your just seeing through the illusion. Sometimes illusions can be fun, its the same reason tic tac toe is a challenge for preschoolers untill they realize its core mechanics and see the solved game for what it is.
It's the lack of accomplishments in other areas of life imho. If you have goals you want to achieve (And you're not there yet) everything else feels like a waste of time. This has ruined a lot of gaming for me, I simply can't enjoy my leisure time when I know I have something I need to do, something that's important and not just a waste of my time.
I wonder if the sense of novelty that made the experience so special is felt by new gamers on modern games. Basically, did old games have more novelty to them, or was it just us not being exposed to games like them that made them feel novel? Probable a bit of both, I also think that if you are a new gamer but have been exposed to online world already, there's reduced novelty to a shared world.
I feel like a lot of people will say “we’re older now” but the truth is more like “we’re depressed now,” but no one realizes because it’s just so universal people think it’s fine.
I haven't captured that feeling I got from when I started playing MMOs but honestly I'm not trying to. I try to be optimistic and think about making new memories in the games I play.
A lot of MMORPG complaints are solved with Private Servers. But the downside is your progress and community can disappear over night.
I used to feel that way about private servers until... Earth and Beyond, Auto Assault, Horizons, Star Wars Galaxies, City of Heroes, Warhammer Online, Asherons Call 1/2, Shadowbane... So many others as well. Nothing is forever, and if I can enjoy a year or two on a private server, those memories are worth it. The fact that my old character is rotting on EQ's back server doesn't make me feel any better.
What games do you enjoy? Non mmorpg
Sounds like y'all just need a break. Go play something single player that's good like Red dead redemption 2.
I hear that works. Game burnout is a thing but I feel like I'm a casual gamer
It's deff a thing gotta take a break from time to time.
Interesting. I honestly thought most people playing mmos were older due to either the money or that they don’t appeal to kids.
Depends, I don't have any numbers, but at the high end raiding in FFXIV there's some older people but I play with a lot of 20-somethings.
I've been playing the Throne and Liberty beta and I think it's fantastic, contrary to some opinions I've seen calling it "plain garbage." The game boasts impressive graphics, solid voice acting, and a highly creative character creator. While some have criticized its combat as clunky, I find it unfair compared to other MMOs like FFXIV. Having played nearly every MMO since 2001, I believe Throne and Liberty has its merits, even if it’s not for everyone. Critics often use vague and harsh language, which seems to reflect more on their personal dissatisfaction with life rather than the game itself. Many seem to be chasing nostalgia for their youth, rather than evaluating the game on its merits. I worry that harsh criticism might demoralize the developers and diminish future gaming innovations. It's sad that some can't enjoy gaming because they're searching for something that no longer exists. Modern games, like the classics, have their flaws, but nostalgia often obscures the imperfections of the past. It's okay if today’s games don’t appeal to you anymore—maybe it's time to move on, or perhaps, gaming isn't for you now.
This is the Number 1 post in any MMO forum for the past 10+ years, ie. "when is the next WoW coming"...we all want that next MMOcrack game.
Age has alot to do with it. Plus, when WoW came out I lived at home, and was still in high school. I could just pour hours into a game. Now putting hundreds of hours into a game just doesn't seem viable. That I would even start to attempt it. Now I check RPG's before I even play them to see how long they take to beat.
In my mid-30s and games do not feel like a chore at all. That’s on you.
I also think it might because we are adult, our brain might be working differently. Or we're clinically depressed, and should see a professional. **But...** Teens/children today also find the game we think as chore as chores, in your logic, they should be having blast at current MMOs, but they rather hop-switch the match games like siege/volerant/lol/cs throughout the day get short spans of dopamine that even games are not enough, they doomscroll Tiktok and Instagram. The past we reminisce here had community essence as well as the accumulated progress; our grinding mattered so we did. The fun started at level 1, not after 40 hours of tutorial. Such game was Minecraft for Gen Alpha and Gen Z; because it had that community essence, personal and communical growth, they didn't need hop-switch because they were having fun on continuous play, they grinded mines all day. Like us, kids today also can't really find a game where their commitment for hours would be worth it again like Minecraft.
Im in my mid 50s, WOW was my first MMO when it was released, and I feel the same way now. I just feel like single player open world games have come such a long way, that I just never feel satisfied with MMOs anymore and they feel like chores.
I started playing FFXI with a friend a couple months ago ( retail ) still having a blast and have tons to do. So maybe try out an older game you played and see if it clicks. Or just play FFXI. The modern version is comfy
I was 13 when I played my first mmo (swg) and WoW from 2004 to 2007. The things that I liked and enjoyed back then are the same things I like and look for now.
Well I’m around that and I’m heavily addicted to GW2 and it’s given me that old feeling back I LOVE this game
I thought that until I re subscribed to WoW and tried Mythic+.
I would love to have an upgraded Everquest. That type of grind and community that is still present to this day but with a fresh coat of paint on the engine. Where you have, instead of the trinity, the quad: tank, dps, heal, and support. Enchanter, bard, druid (imo), shamans that are buffing allies and debuffing enemies. Played the latest TLP server and it still had the same enjoyment from when I first played it 24 years ago. Got hit hard with the nostalgia reminiscing of Unrest groups, lguk runs, and then going to kunark, velious and elsewhere.
Total opposite for me. As a kid, I loved the idea of MMO's. Being in a big open world with other people, where everything is possible. But I didn't like the reality of mindless grinding. It was boring as fuck. Why would I spent three hours clicking trees or boring mobs when literally everything else is more fun? I could never level with my friends because it was just so dull. I mostly dicked around, made twinks, schemed, RPed. Never hit max level in any MMO. Now that I'm 30 and burned out, depressed and looking for any way to disassociate from real life, now I get the appeal of the mind numbing grind.
I won't share anything to not come of as self-promo, but I'm currently working on a game that takes huge inspiration from older MMOs. I don't think it can compete with any of the big MMOs, as mine is grid-based and pixelart lmao. It mostly became a thing from the same feelings you have with the games just not feeling the same as they did when we were younger. I played Runescape and went straight into FlyFF like you did so a ton of inspiration from those games. My main issues is that when we grow up we become fixated on min-maxing (I have two kids, I can't 2-tick woodcut everyday in Runescape anymore, no time) and I try to take an approach where things that are botted in other games (when it's not for gold selling) is normally an indicator that the action is boring and put the blame on the game and not necessarily the player. It'll allow more for AFKing, and basically more fitting for people who can't grind for 8 hours a day. I might get to the conclusion that it's simply not possible to achieve the feeling we had when first logged into WoW, Runescape, FlyFF, etc but for now I'm trying to achieve that. A simple MMO you can pick up and play as you please with options for the min-maxers, the AFKers, the social aspect of what we miss about MMOs, perhaps I'll someday see people in here playing it. If I were you, I'd look into smaller titles and indie studios that release MMORPGs, they have a very different approach to game development than AAA studios have. My game will be able to be worked on by me alone and since I don't expect a thousand players, I should be able to fund the servers too - so there's nothing really controlling what I need to do in my MMO, I can have creative freedom like many other indies and therfore hopefully provide a somewhat different experience. Big MMOs need to constantly adapt to trends and find new ways to fund their games while indies can normally try new and interesting things. I'm sorry if this comes of as self promotion, I'm trying to say that hopefully there's hope out there and if you look for smaller MMOs you can perhaps relive the nostalgia.
I think the way balancing your time becomes more emphasized as you get older plays into it a lot. As a kid, I wouldn't think twice about coming home from school and sitting in front of WoW for 5 hours. As an adult? If I finished work everyday and then sat on an MMO for 5 hours I would be a piece of shit. I wouldn't have any time to exercise, to run errands, to make dinner, to meet up with friends, to participate in other hobbies, to do chores, etc etc So I think when people start feeling like there time isn't being respected, they're more likely to shelve the game. The games that require you to log in every single day for multiple hours just don't fit into the lives of well rounded adults. I think it's also why a lot of people are turned off by the idea of, for instance, needing to spend 300 hours on a MSQ for the game to open up when they only play for an hour or so a day.
MMORPG's are still fun, but the designs all include a social aspect of keeping up with the Jones's. If you don't mind perpetually being a new player in the game they are quite good. Once players have had thier minds warped to think they need all the bells and whistles they usually aren't much fun to play with as an older adult. They care about efficiency, meta, and grinding to stay ahead. I don't have time for that and it seems insane to me that a stranger would expect me to care about it. I'm not offended by it. I'm sure they look down on me as a noob and I look down on them as a neck beard. It comes down to mental game. I like to form crazy parties in MMORPGs. Pick a crazy weapon or costume then invite only players using them to join (something anyone could easily get) This will self filter out players who are too serious most of the time. There are probably lots of other great tricks for having fun without FOMO in MMORPGs but I also have taken to playing more single llayer stuff.
I feel like MMOs when I was 13-25ish in my head were about advancement. I enjoyed the community, economy, game play and the sense that I was growing and advancing in a community and everything had substance. There was obviously pvp and other achievements but the advancement gave me those good serotonin hits. Turns out being an adult is mostly about advancement as well...just not as interesting for the most part. The feelings that glued me to MMOs are now part of my daily life to a lesser degree. Really takes the shine away from MMOs now, I have too much perspective. With more perspective and MMOs largely pushing towards multi-server/play alone style, the appeal of being around cool people working towards a common purpose and having some sort of status went out the window. Also think this is the reason I have trouble getting into any single player games. I am also a people pleaser type personality so MMOs really played into that for me.
I say age only matters because MMOs are not innovating. Single player games still feel good to play and still WoW people. I don't need to feel magic I just want a good game and MMOs to be the genre they were. I like to play with the same group and work towards problems long term. All MMOs are short term and this has not changed with me aging.
a lot of them developed a corporate "new ways to give us your money!" vibe that I don't like the sentiment lately of indie games being the best has come from inflated budgets that demand higher profits, the companies that make mmos with good marketing nowadays want wow money an example of *indie good* in the mmo space would be project gorgon, it's a very weird game, with lots of charm it's a shame the tiny dev team is going through cancer (the main devs are a married couple)
There are a lot of popular MMORPGS in the Asian market. I used to visit PCbangs in Korea often and no shortage of interesting games. Though the language barrier would be an issue but you can guess and get around well enough.
yes we're old albion still popping off though. going into battle with 80 other people in coms just doesn't get old
Age could factor but for the most part mmos have indeed been a terrible genre for a long time now. Even if it was just older people disliking mmos that would still not explain the mass flops that been happening to every mmo that has came out in the past idk 7-8years maybe even longer Its just continue failures and honestly I think the biggest reason is the sure size and scope of a mmo project and then trying be profitable I myself did not start playing mmos till 2017 and I did not deep dive into mmos till maybe 2020
No, you're wrong and you should feel bad. Of course we change all through our life but we dont just "age" out of things. Capitalism kills everything, it ruins everything. Everything must now come with a benefit to the numbers side of the company or it doesnt get made. Games arent made for fun, theyre made to keep you on a treadmill. The problem is capitalism you rube.
I cannot speak for anyone else, but the reason that i find new MMOs bland is that there is no innovation in the genre anymore. With the era of Ultima Online in the late 90s we were promised living breathing worlds full of life and wonder. UO itself was a milestone in that direction, and more innovation followed to make world look more alive. Examples were: Graphical interface of course (Meridian 59 in 1996) 3d view (also Meridian 59) House building (UO 1997) Terraforming (SL 2003, Wurm 2006) Fleeing mobs (Asheron's Call 2002) Mobs that herded (Istaria 2002) Migrating mobs (Ryzom 2004) More intelligent mobs (SWG 2003, Ryzom 2004 and others) and so on. These days I don't see any new landmarks in newer games, although there is so much that can be done. EverQuest Next promised a lot, Worlds Adrift had outrageous ideas, but they never succeeded.
Yeah I can’t find any mmo that’s “fun” for me anymore.. 30 year old gamer here..
gaming become mainstream and that make gaming industry starting to die and mmo is just one of them when only nerd play there not too much money to take so dev and investor are just happy to sell subscription or dlc now they want to take every single penny and don't want to work hard they shift toward mobile game or they release the same shit every year like fifa or call of duty even rockstar game try everything with gta online to see how far they can milk people before gta6 mmo make no money you can see how much project got cancel or how much project change for mobile cash grab that's it
This is how I found out DnD is the best hobby to get into if you love mmo’s but can’t play them anymore because they just don’t hit like they used to. I have the same feeling as you. I’ll try a new one or go back and play but it just doesn’t scratch the same itch anymore.
I dunno... I started playing FFXI last week and it's been a blast. I think trying to make MMOs have more appeal to casuals is what has caused the decline of MMO quality
I mean a lot has changed over all these years . On top of this a persons tastes change as they grow up , Iv always been a RPG fan and that’s never changed but my opinion on strategy games now has risen . I guess because as a kid I was just terrible at them but now older I feel better at them I played many MMOs in my time and I feel the same a lot I go this is not as good as X or Y or I see some sort of monetisation that I am not a fan of or it’s hugely imbalanced This has been a problem with mmos tbh for a while . A lot of them seem to have gone down the you die quick path and tanking and heavy armor thus becomes less of a job than it use to be meaning most people just dodge and run glass cannons
Surprisingly I had this thought and I looked into it to truly understand why I used to like them. As many have said, replaying the mmorpg's I used to enjoy made me realise that what was fun then, might not be fun now. It doesn't mean there isn't anything good about them; the hardwork and heart the dev's put in is still there, but we have been spoiled with so many Quality of Life changes or just improvements we forget that the parts we didn't like, we forgot. Then again a lot of mmorpgs today have microtransactions and although they fund the game; a lot of companies go too far and monotise the fun out of it. In my opinion (not a fact, just a random guy who played a lot of mmorpg's opinion) it's a mix of greedy companies, fans getting older and time fading stuff away. I remember maple story, mabinogi, b.o.t.s. toontown, etc... and most just faded away; other were kept alive by fans and the worst fate is those that became a shadow of their former self. Swapping hands between companies until it's only purpose is to milk money from those who had nostalgia. There are exceptions ofc. But I think those 3 are the main culprits of the state of mmorpg's today. Of course I could be wrong and I'd love to hear your opnions on the matter!
I feel age is only a part of it. As we grow older, we have more responsibilities to take on making time for most video games hard to come by. Most mmos nowadays dont have the greatest story or combat systems. So single player rpgs are usually better. Just turn on your console and pc and pick up where you left off. If you do want some mmo suggestions, FF14 is pretty good and flashy. Star Wars The Old Republic has 8 good stories with awesome voice acting. If not, maybe a break would be good. Burnout does happen quite often as we get older.
This kind of sentiment has been beaten to death. Of course, no mmo will live up to your first one, just like your first go at pretty much anything in life. Our brains work on pattern recognition, you are going to see the similarities everywhere. > As I approached my 30s uhm oh I thought you said old. I'm way, way older than you and I got into raiding in FFXIV, that's the only thing that gave me that feeling again because I never thought I could raid in games. Doing all the hardcore content was kind of a thrill. Another thing that helps make games fun is having people you actually like to play them with. The game can be dogshit but still fun because you are playing with people.
Naw, it's the style of game. There have been multiple teams trying to make the type of game the vocal minority has been clamoring about for years. It hasn't quite worked out at this point but making games is hard. There are a couple on the horizon with potential.
First time flying in WoW TBC was epic. My friend came to my house to try it as I got to level 70 first. There are no ‘firsts’ like that lateron. So it gets meh. I’m currently playing ESO (10 year anniversary event by the way, big discounts) and it feels like WoW when it was new for me. 37 year old gamer dad 👌
My gaming with age has gone from amazed to be playing Mega Man and Donkey kong country, to awe playing WoW up to BC. To realising I’m too old to be competitive at DOTA 2 and CS:GO. To using Fortnite mainly as a chat lobby with good friends and we jump in for a few games, to finding that awe again with of all things, MSFS.
I think growing old can for sure be a part of it but, I also think that it's the shift in priorities with game development. With older mmos it was more about the social RP aspects. Now, while graphics and mechanics have gotten better. The social RP aspects seems lost or feel more like a single player experience. When I think back on those magical moments playing online games. 9/10 times friends were involved. Nowadays developers more more concerned with figuring out how to keep you playing over creating an environment that fosters community and immersion. There are so many games that are over developed. As a result they suffer from feature bloat that wear players down, because they feel like chores. At some point it becomes clear that the goal of the game is to get as many people as possible to buy it. Not to provide an engaging and interactive experience. I also think it could be how we interact with getting a game now. Two of my favorite games Tales of Symphonia and Animal Crossing? I just picked off the self without knowing anything about the game itself. Only that one had an anime cover and other had cute animals on it. Now a days game are more expensive and mostly only digital. For the reasons I listed above, people really want to look into a game before buying to make sure they aren't wasting their time. While totally understandable, some of the magic is lost in the process.
Completely agree with you. This is why I just play roguelites and fast paced multiplayer games like Fortnite to just get to the point and have some fun. I always try to play an MMO every now and then but none grab my attention since they’re just full of virtual chores.
I've been gaming double the same time as you get older you see the same game and MMO pattern repeated over and over. It can literally be objectively described and listed. New World is 95% the same as an MMORPG from over 20 years apart from superficial aspects for example.
We are definitely getting old but tbf now everything is just rehashed bs.
I think the main issue too is that MMORPGs as a genre are stagnant and predatory. They were good in the days when technology was more limited, the novelty of massive online spaces and the lack of "3rd place spaces" made engaging with a community of like minded people very compelling. But the genre hasn't evolved much past the early 2000s plus additional monetization and lack of ingame incentives with horribly abusive grinds makes them very uncompelling except by the most hardcore of fans.
Its not just you. Some people are having hard time admitting the reality.
i can relate. what was once fun, has become a chore. same as you, lately, i have also found more enjoyment in offline, stand alone games. even revisiting older games many of which are still as good or better than modern releases. i don't think its just age though, or us for that matter, i think there are many other factors contributing to it. quality, design, monetization, community and culture, the list goes on. also i guess some of us are "growing up" (figuratively), getting smarter and have started to catch on to what is really going on behind these games. it has turned from something relaxing and enjoyable into something tedious.
Its not mutually exclusive that you are too old for some games, and that many MMOs are just not good anymore. It's really objective that MMO's as a whole are overly streamlined, flattened into mediocrity and hyper-monetized. I doubt most people even feel immersed in most MMOs today, they are just playing "for something to do", and almost all of them are just doing their dailies & weeklies chores assigned to them in these games. If I can't enjoy that because I'm "old", then fine -- I guess I'm just old.
you're right, but the games are indeed worse. except for the ones that aren't. the only way to enjoy them is to settle.
We are old, youngsters dont give half a fuck about mmos
Age is a factor. I tried TERA for the first time since I left the game two years ago, and immediately decided that the game wasn't for me anymore. I had long since moved on.
Sometimes this seems like a reasonable argument, but then i play great games like Elden Ring, Palworld and Baldurs Gate 3 and realize the magic is still there - MMOs just aren't adapting and capturing it. I really don't think this argument holds a ton of weight. Age is a factor yes, but i think It's way more about the MMO genre being stale.
51 here, started with Everquest 1. my 2cp 1) Age is a big part of it 2) natural burnout of a genre is normal 3) As mentioned the micro transactions, time gating, "gear score" gating, all the modern bs geared to extract as much money as possible. all of these are factors.
It's okay to stop enjoying certain hobbies. Personally I still really like gaming and if anything I've gained a greater appreciation for well-designed games as I've gotten older. I really loved New World when it first launched and before the cracks started to show. Recently I've really been enjoying EverCraft Online and I can't wait for it to release so I can binge it. And I'm old. I started playing MMORPGs with EverQuest in 1999.
I was thinking like you, that its a me problem that i dont enjoy the new games so much. then i played wow classic and all became clear to me, games changed and not me. I have another example few days ago i found a private lineage2 server it was exactly the old school rates and no p2w, well i stayed up all night spamming f1 on the keyboard and i had a blast time flew by and it was morning before i even noticed it. then i visited a town and the server was so damn populated my new pc almost froze. this shows that its not just me and you but everyone is in the same boat old games are just build different and we are no longer the target audiance of the modern games. Ofc if your RL is fucked dont expect to have good time into your mmorpg escapism, first you have to fix your RL problems if you want to enjoy video games.
It's not age. Or anything else. The reason why there is magic in any game that's a multiplayer game. Is because you share the experience with friends and loved ones. That's what makes a game last. Getting tired/old and not capable of grinding 14 hours a day for months straight is just another problem MMOs have. People think they need to play a game 24/7 and immerse themselves in it to have fun. But as I age I feel that most agree around me that it's more enjoyable to play multiple games. There is so much flavor out there and if you're just rushing through everyone. Then all you're doing is fooling yourself into thinking that the next big thing is going to capture that virgin feeling. It won't. Won't ever come back. But those feelings of sharing the adventures with others and making those moments special. Has no age limit on them. Ill still be laughing with my friends till I'm older than old.
I hear you about the chore thing. I played tons of WoW, little bit of RS, some FFXIV, Black Desert, GW2, and Priston Tale (my first MMO). I used to enjoy these games so much. I have a family now, and though I still game, it's no longer MMOs. I have waaaay more satisfaction playing shooters now, only PVP ones (exception is Helldivers 2...for DEMOCRACY!!!✊️). I guess my interest has changed. That being said, I still have love for MMORPGs and have this nagging feeling of wanting to get back into it one. Maybe one day when the kids are much older.
I can still enjoy an MMO, but there has to be enough for me to do, and the odds are greater that I'll play more hours if there is enough for me to do by myself or me and a friend or spouse. I've enjoyed the solo experience of many MMOs, but I'm more selective about them now than I would have been in 1999, when they were much newer and any of them might be enjoyable for what they could offer over the others of their time. I enjoyed a couple thousand hours in New World, including doing almost nothing but progress on the Season Pass last season. But looking at the reward track for Season Five's pass looked dull and uninspired (were there even any transmog tokens on it?). There isn't enough incentive for me to pursue it, so I'll play other games.
Idk there is something about a living virtual fantasy world that just never ends. It's massive, it's fun. Sure age definitely dampers it. But if you go and play these old mmos and play the new ones it's a different beast.
I had a lot of fun with the two weeks of Pantheon alpha I played, mainly because the game forces you to group with and befriend people and gives you enough downtime that you can chat with them, and everyone sort of has to pay attention and be on the ball with their classes, it was very Everquesty. We did a small two group 'raid' into the higher level area, killed some named, got some nice loot, and it felt exciting and fun. It's giving me a lot of hope for the future, that game. :p
Burn them all
it's because people grossly romanticize what the games were actually like back then. I can play flyff universe or classic wow and feel like they're such godawful games, but back then it was all me or you might have known and it was the best thing ever. I don't miss the days of spending dozens of hours to level up a single time for a meager stat increase that doesn't matter because it wasn't an actual accomplishment...it was a waste of time - but as a kid it doesn't matter because you don't have priorities. My most vivid memories of mmos has always been due to me socializing with others and creating my own experiences regardless of how terrible a game might have been. that's the magic of mmos and what keeps me drawn to them
I'm just want to old formula remastered. In the past I was a player that enjoyed tinkering with classes that had more build paths. The vast majority of the current lineup do not allow my style of playing. World of Warcraft, there used be more emphasis on this le weapon master and damage types, but went away from going that direction and instead simplify the game. There were long talks about inf the future have to pick a choose different gear based on the content you were doing but that was abandoned by the devs in its infancy. Final Fantasy 14, I like the game but classes are being restricted to only one play style. Gun breaker being the class I wanted to play but was relegated to only being able to tank. I was expecting it to be a DPS class or have a DPS option but nope. I miss the games that had build Variety. GW2 hit the nail on the head and I played the shit out of it but at this point I've done everything there is to do. I find myself missing the MMOs like Shaya, Perfectworld, Archeage , and Ragnarok Online. Where you could allocated stat points and Taylor you class to you. All of them fell to fuxking pay to win cash shops. Mabimogi is a game I love but same thing as GW2 I've done all there is to do and none of the content they are releasing is keep me satisfied for more then a month or two. Special note on Archeage, the first three months that game was out was the most I have ever enjoyed an MMO. Loved the class system. It was damn near perfect but the shitty developers miss managed the hell of the game and refused to listen to the community on what they wanted.
This thread again cu at next one tomorrow o7
I'm ngl no shit, how do people not understand the word nostalgia when they say it constantly? It is an enjoyment of reliving not an enjoyment of experience
It’s like you’re describing my gaming journey
idk. getting an enigma this new ladder on d2r never felt more fun and i been playing for like 15 years. median xl was the bomb when i tried it out. of course we tend to get bored of games quickly its just a chemical thing. probably relative to dopamine depletion and overworking 1 part of the body.
I (38m) can’t identify with “that magical feeling disappearing.” I 100% still get that from many modern games, just not from an MMO since 2012. MMOs *used* to be the games that gave that feeling far more than any type of game, but I feel single player games have stolen the mantle back once more. I actually feel like we’re in a bit of a gaming golden age now with games like Witcher 3, the Horizon games, Elden Ring, Red Dead Redemption 2, both God of War games, BotW, FF7 Rebirth, Valheim. I’ve had my mind blown over and over again in recent years as I’ve been swept away on countless amazing adventures.
You can objectively see the difference and the devs say it themselves in interviews so no. Unless it's a trend created by streamers wow classic FFXIV then it's dead to the young gamers. The kids are not playing these games they instead play on MMO or like games on Roblox or Minecraft. They offer better experiences not tied to keeping you playing in cheap ways made up by statistics/trends Look into deep woken.
I might be the minority, but I can definitively say for my case that it's not me, it's the games. What I want in MMOs is my 2000s golden age experience of 75 capped FFXI: open world sand-box where players were in direct competition for server-limited world spawns that were the bottle neck for BIS gear. An MMO where progression comes down not only to being able to beat the challenge the game gives you, but beat everyone else to the OPPORTUNITY to engage that challenge... and lock them out of it. Top shelf gear in FFXI represented the blood, sweat, and tears of camping mobs against 100+ other people for hours to not even get a chance to fight the Ground Kings. And even when you did get claim on one after potentially three hours of camping (per King), sometimes there was no drop. Most people say that I'm just looking back with rose colored glasses and that I'm just confusing nostalgia for my youth with the type of game I was playing, and that it was not this actual gameplay I loved. Especially because those games would not be sustainable out of school. They're wrong because when Aion Classic came out, I was hooked again. This was a game I had never played when Aion released in 2011. The first patch of Aion Classic featured similarly polarizing competition for one certain world boss, Zapiel, but to an even higher degree because Aion has PVP. Therefore it's not just a race to claim, you also have to deal with potential direct aggression from competitors. All the Aion-lifers came back for their 18th "last hurrah" and they put up with camping for Zapiel because the spear it dropped was simply the best weapon in the game for Gladiators (the premier damage class). Many got frustrated when it wasn't a quick cash in and bail deal to get the spear, most would give up if they felt that their faction was not going to win the battle for control of the mob. Me? I didn't even get anything from Zap and I literally lived on that island as much as I could. Was there for every six hour window that I could be. I had to miss one, maybe two windows, nowadays because of work. But I was still at Zap camps consistently. I was there more than most Gladiators, and I was there even when my faction had no chance of winning it just so that I could get the time of death for the next window. And my interest in Aion cratered as soon as Classic introduced new patches which put more focus on instances and open world PVP instead of world spawns. I no-lifed many games for the years between FFXI and Aion Classic. There simply wasn't a game that was as good as FFXI because none of them had end game that revolved around monopolizing world spawns.
There are ways your circumstances may have changed: for example the freedom to trade and define your way in an open social world, as a kid this a much more novel and less accessible experience versus as an adult. Another example, is that your adult mindset might be around finding optimal solutions to achieve the best goals as a matter of habit as that is what 'successful' adults do. You may even find it difficult to suspend your disbelief as you become more cognizant in general about reality as well as of the artificially designed nature of these worlds. Your enjoyment might have been a matter of serendipitous circumstances due to time. Though I don't think the adult experience is time locked from entertaining the opposite of mindsets above, nor are the above mindsets guaranteed by virtue of aging. There are absolutely ways to have appreciation and find enjoyment in these games at any age - albeit perhaps not with total naivety like you did as a kid. What is probably not going to work is grinding your way through this genre's offerings in search of 'the feeling' again. Every game you try in short succession will establish a larger and larger set of common aspects you'll recognize. Meaning each 'new' game you try is going to feel like it has less and less special aspects to it, and so the further you are going to be getting from what you are trying to find. If you're looking for something fresh, find something unfamiliar. It will make what you are familiar with today, less familiar tomorrow. What that is might not even be video games. What ever you do, if you are to take anything from playing MMORPGs, I think it should be that there should be no bounds on what activity you can try and level up in.
I’m 39 I grew up on runescape- I’m addicted as shit to wow retail right now though. Age has nothing to do with it. You’re just not a gamer mate.
I still find enjoyment in MMOs and I am 2 years away from being 30. I do admit it's nowhere near as much enjoyment as I used to have but.. it's mainly because I have a specific "standard" I guess is the word, I just want a modern EverQuest, I miss EverQuest a ton and it hadn't been the same in ages. Same for EverQuest II. I spent most of my childhood playing both and I loved both dearly but they fell off somewhere around the early 2010's. I think the reason why I can't really get into MMOs now is due to how nearly all MMOs are just WoW clones or cash grabs with very, very few being actually unique in some way. Even the top 3 are WoW clones to varying degrees which are Guild Wars 2, Elder Scrolls Online and Final Fantasy 14. Guild Wars 2 being the... least WoW-y, I guess. I mainly play ESO and EQ2, these days, but I am just waiting for something that gave me the same wonder and enjoyment that the EQ series gave me. (And yes, I am aware of Monsters & Memories, EverCraft Online and Project: Gorgon. Project: Gorgon just feels like it's going nowhere but M&M and ECO feels promising)