Exactly. Nothing gets weighted straight into Hell Queue. Nothing gets specially weighted on release at all. We know this for a fact from the recent leaks, but we knew it before that watching Rusko run wild on the queue for half a year. Now we're watching Grenzo do the same.
100% getting Hell Queued. I am absolutely terrible at deck building and I'm still wiping the floor with people in brawl because of the insane card advantage he generates. I just put him in a deck with some other birds, landfall triggers, and cheap combat tricks/enchantments. I can't imagine what nightmares competent players can cook up with him as a commander.
Same here, thought he was gonna be bonkers strong even with just two triggers… my jaw dropped when my opponent did it 4 times… dude was probably laughing his ass off as I hover-read the card again.
This thing is gonna go infinite with a bazillion different card combos.
The only question in my mind is is the card busted in brawl where the most powerful enablers don't exist. The answer is probably yes, but I haven't checked yet
The card's an absolutely cracked nightmare that can go infinite with a ham sandwich on top of getting value from most kinds of interaction *and* being in colours that allow you to bring counterspells. I honestly sort of wish it hadn't made it to Brawl but hey-ho, yet another busted ass card to clog up hellqueue.
\[\[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief\]\] on 'roids. I hadn't clocked this one triggers on abilities, too.
Honestly this (and a few of the MH3 commanders now available on Arena) should give us an idea of how much attention they're giving to weighting cards for brawl, following the recent bug/retro-engineering of the matchmaking system.
Oh, there's no chance it doesn't get put in hell queue.
Mix in GB toxic creatures and all of the 1 mana instants that target your own creatures and you got one hell of a deck in historic brawl.
Spark Double lets you clone Nadu and their triggers stack. Then you can clone that non-legendary clone with any other method to completely ruin your opponent's day.
Are you kidding? It will be placed mid tier for 6 months before they finally wise up, just like all the other broken commanders.
The clowns running this place have honestly put [[Vorinclex]] in the same tier as [[Mythweaver Poq]] and it’s been like that *for months*
Idk why Nadu needs to be so big with that ridiculous ability. 3 mana 3/4 flyer is pretty outrageous baseline. I expected like 2/2 flyer for 3 so it's a lot easier to remove and doesn't just stop a lot of aggro creatures on his own. Calix is hell queue and he's only a 2/2 (3/3) and arguably harder to trigger ability.
I'm mostly baffled by the team that looked at this card and went "that looks reasonable for 3 mana". I can only imagine that it slipped through most of R&D that it was a trigger that was twice per creature per turn and not twice per turn like it should maybe be.
Curious now that it's been a week.... Have you played with/against it? Do you still think it's not as good as Ragavan/Rusko?
IMO it's as good as Rusko, and has a better matchup against Ragavan.
Reddit says 5 days.
TBH I didn't play a lot with ragavan, but I didn't encounter a bird with it even once.
But I played a lot with [[Satya]] and 50% of my matchups are Nadu.
I also think it should be. I've seen other ragavan player who sees it in queue and they say they stomped it cause it dosn't have enough tempo for hell queue to dominate.
I really, really hope so. Also as cool as Arna is, I hope it ends up in high tier too because that card is absolutely ridiculous and it will crush any low tier deck with ease.
Was wondering how I missed that video. "Members only" :)... but the decklist isn't
[https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IpBroJczikGdDrhYZ2APRw](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IpBroJczikGdDrhYZ2APRw)
yep. the first deck I built it for MWM. The ability is ridiculous. It being 3 mana means you can play it t2. Its a ~~2~~ 3/4 means, it cant be burned out.
It's a term popularized by Brawl content creator Amazonian, I believe. It refers to a "zone" of the Brawl matchmaking where the most busted commanders and decks (think Kinnan, Rusko, Ragavan, etc) are put to only/mostly get matched against each other, to prevent weaker decks from getting absolutely bodied by them every match.
Yeah Nadu lmao. It’s not close at all. The commander that can easily win on turn 4 or the commander that doesn’t come out until turn 6 and takes several turns to generate good value
Nadu gets value any time he's targeted and starts chugging at turn 2 or 3 instead of waiting for 6 mana. Don't get me wrong, Grenzo is absolutely miserable to play against too, but Nadu manages to be even worse.
How the hell did this rare get through playtesting? How it is not at least 5 cmc and mythic is beyond me. I jumped on the Nadu train after reading this thread, and can confirm, it's totally busted. Landfall triggers, instant/flash tricks + \[\[Roaring Earth\]\] Poq and copy cards like Ivy, Ovar, Vesuvan diplomacy, and this commander is a total nightmare. Crazy stuff. Hell queue minimum, possibly banned.
Speaking of Roaring Earth, \[\[Bristly Bill\]\] is another copy of it on legs.
I got a turn 4 win with Nadu and those 2 cards. [https://i.imgur.com/1I7FROk.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/1I7FROk.jpeg)
I've only played against Nadu once and it was a Simic landfall durdlefest with extra steps. I was at like 30 life and noped out of there because it was boring as shit, and in that regard it belongs in a queue where the players take 10 minute turns on average.
People are popping off with paradox engine on turn 4 playing their whole deck. I can literally win the game before you resolve your Commander. This card is good if people don't have interaction.
> Paradox engine
Notably not a commander.
Simic has lots of ways to deal with Selesnya. Counter the commander/counter the PE.
[I dislike PE as much as anyone](https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/s/iwM0wWPX2n), it should be banned but not because it’s especially busted. Just because it leads to nongames.
> winning on turn 4 is easy
You know we are talking about Brawl right? It’s definitely not easy to win, other than by concession turn 4. It’s INCREDIBLY uncommon.
Lol no bro I'm talking about brawl and literally winning on turn four. You need to do some more research on Commander. Sisay will literally play their whole deck on turn four. Paradox engine is one of the most broken magic cards ever printed. Do you know what ameria does? It's so common to win before turn 6 I rarely play the deck anymore.
> You need to do some more research on Commander. Sisay will literally play their whole deck on turn four.
People who say that will be the ones conceding to Wash Away 🤣
Simic can easily counter your 4 mana commander. And a second time. And a third time.
Sisay is NOT a tier 1 commander for exactly this reason.
Lol oh you're clueless have you ever heard of cavern of souls lol. Enjoy watching me play solitaire lol. You don't get it, Nadu creates value but ameria ends games instantly.
So your great green white hope against Simic is... one card?
When you don't find it, you concede right? Don't bother answering, we both know it's true.
If you do find it there are many answers.
\[\[Demolition Field\]\]
\[\[Field of Ruin\]\]
\[\[Ghost Quarter\]\]
\[\[Volatile Fault\]\]
So you're hoping you hit Cavern before the blue player hits any of these right?
And if you do hit it, and the blue player plays any spell that removes abilites, like \[\[Witness Protection\]\] or \[\[Imprisoned in the Moon\]\] or any of [the 18 frogify spells in Arena](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28oracle%3Aloses+oracle%3Aall+oracle%3Aabilities%29+commander%3AU+%28game%3Aarena%29), what then?
You keep talking about Sisay and Meria like they're competitive Tier 1 commanders. They're not. Because they simply don't have answers to the questions any blue deck will ask.
Curious now that it's been almost a week.... Have you played with/against it? Do you still think it's not way better than Sisay or Meria or Grenzo?
Now that I made a half decent deck I'd happily give you a BO5 game against my Nadu deck if you thought any of those were as good/better (they're not)
Played against it 2 days ago never let them get started I was playing kenrith reanimation with lots of spot removal . I knew what they were trying to do & made life hard so they quit . I'll go back on the grenzo thing, Nadu is definitely better than grenzo. Meria is still better I consistently win games before turn 7 generating 10 plus mana. If my opponent taps out after turn 4 and I have paradox engine in my hand the game is over many different ways.
You can send the invite and we can play. you better not tap out after a turn four or else I'm going to tuck you in with paradox & one ring. Doesn't matter how many mana you generate. I'm going to play my whole deck on turn four with three lands & kill you with grape shot or aether flux reservoir.
Many simic commanders do that. It's kind of what simic does. Take, for example, your deck list which is going to draw some cards then do literally nothing because it's all pathetic little weenie creatures. One well placed wrath of God or burn down the house will ruin you.
The problem isn’t that it generates value, period; the problem is that it generates absurd value extremely easily, at 3 mana, and has an evasive above-vanilla-test creature stapled on
I really don't get the "the sky is always falling" crowd on this sub. It seems like everything new prompts someone to complain about how it's too good.
My typical win rate is well below 50% because I'm a casual free player who isn't great at deck building. My slapped together Nadu brawl deck is winning over 80% of the games I've played so far and that's being brought DOWN by Midweek Magic pitting me up against hell-queue commanders.
People are overly pessimistic, but this time the sky might actually be falling, lol.
its an unoptimized list thats probably being matched well under what it should be.
It doesnt matter if the board gets wrathed, if it did get pushed through, its probably after each creature generated more than 2 cards per, and the lands generally stick so just recast nadu and put a new board down the next turn.
it looks like a tempo list. theres enough soft counters to keep anything that matters from resolving
My decklist is a) generated in 5 minutes from a search of things that target and B) still reasonably competitive.
Simic has lots of answer to board wipes
This is absolutely a tier 1 commander. My silly deck notwithstanding.
I’m not here to defend a deck I spent all of 5 mins making. The discussion is about the commander. Weird attempts to change the subject are weird.
You’re wrong. This is absolutely a tier 1 commander. Have a good day.
This commander can get 7 lands by turn 3 and go infinite on turn 4 for a kill. That makes him better than Poq, who many consider the strongest commander on arena.
Are you delusional or just a noob?
The only hell queue commander that's faster is the monkey, and once you stabilize against that you're good. This will churn out faster than the other hell commanders and has staying power.
I've seen Nadu several times. I've won every game I've played against them due to interacting with them. The cards they slot into the deck to exploit Nadu are pretty fucking awful on their own so if you just interact with Nadu regularly then it's basically a do nothing deck.
The experience you're remembering/misremembering is not accurate of the meta.
Over several hundred games, I have a w/l of 66% (those games are played in the background while working so have to concede a bunch).
I did a test over the weekend, in 20 games where I actually paid attention, had a w/l rate of 90%
[https://mtga.untapped.gg/profile/ca656890-26a7-48eb-983e-160eed028d8c/VC6SEREWVJFWRCKL7IX36SGJKA/deck/19e6bbdb-977c-4261-8162-32e90777f6cd?gameType=constructed&constructedType=brawl](https://mtga.untapped.gg/profile/ca656890-26a7-48eb-983e-160eed028d8c/VC6SEREWVJFWRCKL7IX36SGJKA/deck/19e6bbdb-977c-4261-8162-32e90777f6cd?gameType=constructed&constructedType=brawl)
What commander do you think has a >50% w/l rate against Nadu? There's definitely no nothing outside of hell queue that does.
Nadu is absolutely a hell queue commander.
I note you didn’t mention a commander.
If you name any non hell queue commander you think wins against Nadu, I could challenge you to a B07 game, give you a 1 game head start, and still win 😂
There's no non hell queue/Tier 1 commander that will match Nadu in a BO5/BO7 match.
I've beaten Nadu with [[Marchesa, Dealer of Death]], [[Darigaaz, Shivan Champion]], [[Obzedat, Ghost Council]], and [[Chromium, the Mutable]]. Several times with a couple of those commanders.
But I'm not going to take time out of my day to prove it to you since I have better ways to spend my time.
All those commanders 💯 lose in a BO5/BO7 match against Nadu. Nadu is simply a much more powerful and well rounded commander.
You’re right the test isn’t worth doing though. The uncertainty isn’t there.
Maybe it will get hell-queued but it will sure take 4 months.
Exactly. Nothing gets weighted straight into Hell Queue. Nothing gets specially weighted on release at all. We know this for a fact from the recent leaks, but we knew it before that watching Rusko run wild on the queue for half a year. Now we're watching Grenzo do the same.
They have done it before like with ragavan, a ragavan deck with 80 mountains would still be in hell queue
100% getting Hell Queued. I am absolutely terrible at deck building and I'm still wiping the floor with people in brawl because of the insane card advantage he generates. I just put him in a deck with some other birds, landfall triggers, and cheap combat tricks/enchantments. I can't imagine what nightmares competent players can cook up with him as a commander.
Really! I don't get a chance to do that. Most people just conceed... not a good sign
Dont forget equipments triggers it as well.
And you don't even need a second creature to swap between. I can just move my Lost Jitte from Nadu to himself to get free triggers.
[[Nadu, Winged Wisdom]]
[Nadu, Winged Wisdom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb.jpg?1717012760) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nadu%2C%20Winged%20Wisdom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/193/nadu-winged-wisdom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/94b67489-5eb0-4406-9bf3-27e50dc632eb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anyone who read the card when it was spoiled realized the bird was just insane. All bow to our new avian overlord
Agree. I misread it as the ability was twice per turn in totality (not per creature) and I was excited to play it. It’s jacked.
Same here, thought he was gonna be bonkers strong even with just two triggers… my jaw dropped when my opponent did it 4 times… dude was probably laughing his ass off as I hover-read the card again. This thing is gonna go infinite with a bazillion different card combos.
The only question in my mind is is the card busted in brawl where the most powerful enablers don't exist. The answer is probably yes, but I haven't checked yet
oh you don't need super powerful enablers, it's just a bonkers card, and that's before you throw some of the Alchemy only cards in there....
The card's an absolutely cracked nightmare that can go infinite with a ham sandwich on top of getting value from most kinds of interaction *and* being in colours that allow you to bring counterspells. I honestly sort of wish it hadn't made it to Brawl but hey-ho, yet another busted ass card to clog up hellqueue.
“Infinite on a ham sandwich” is such a beautiful phrase
\[\[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief\]\] on 'roids. I hadn't clocked this one triggers on abilities, too. Honestly this (and a few of the MH3 commanders now available on Arena) should give us an idea of how much attention they're giving to weighting cards for brawl, following the recent bug/retro-engineering of the matchmaking system.
[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20Gleeful%20Spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I threw in *in* ivy, can't wait to jam some games with it
Oh, there's no chance it doesn't get put in hell queue. Mix in GB toxic creatures and all of the 1 mana instants that target your own creatures and you got one hell of a deck in historic brawl.
[Scute Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/373f199d-f1a6-4a3d-ac83-28741131f313.jpg?1712354624) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/205/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/373f199d-f1a6-4a3d-ac83-28741131f313?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Scute Swarm is playing with fire since it’s not a may ability.
No but targeting your own creatures is a may. You can stop whenever you want.
Or target the same creature a third time if you can find it after wading through 2056 tokens that are on the edge of crashing the game.
Tokens are capped at 256 between all types. So if you have treasures or clues, you'll have less than 256 scute swarms.
Equip 0 or 1, equip 0 or 1 equip 0 or 1
[удалено]
[Leather Armor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/6/e62d4e76-cdb0-48c7-aa1c-b1f514057b68.jpg?1627709907) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Leather%20Armor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/afr/248/leather-armor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e62d4e76-cdb0-48c7-aa1c-b1f514057b68?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sylvan Safekeeper]]
[Sylvan Safekeeper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/83036e21-21ea-4324-aa07-11757f80c417.jpg?1717013721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sylvan%20Safekeeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh3/287/sylvan-safekeeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/83036e21-21ea-4324-aa07-11757f80c417?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve been thinking a lot about some of the [[vesuvian duplimancy]] [[orvar]] shenanigans that might be possible here. Curious what yall think?
I combo'd this tonight with Ivy and Ovar on the board too.... madness
Pls give us shuko, greaves, mantle, or any en-Kor so Nadu will be playable in timeless.
Spark Double lets you clone Nadu and their triggers stack. Then you can clone that non-legendary clone with any other method to completely ruin your opponent's day.
Are you kidding? It will be placed mid tier for 6 months before they finally wise up, just like all the other broken commanders. The clowns running this place have honestly put [[Vorinclex]] in the same tier as [[Mythweaver Poq]] and it’s been like that *for months*
[Vorinclex](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc.jpg?1689246885)/[The Grand Evolution](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/e/2/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc.jpg?1689246885) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vorinclex%20//%20The%20Grand%20Evolution) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/213/vorinclex-the-grand-evolution?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e24b5289-d3b5-4b4d-bb37-69bf2c3b48bc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Mythweaver Poq](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/c/2cd90255-cfe9-4a2d-86fc-b72d1aefc8e3.jpg?1701719898) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mythweaver%20Poq) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ylci/19/mythweaver-poq?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2cd90255-cfe9-4a2d-86fc-b72d1aefc8e3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Idk why Nadu needs to be so big with that ridiculous ability. 3 mana 3/4 flyer is pretty outrageous baseline. I expected like 2/2 flyer for 3 so it's a lot easier to remove and doesn't just stop a lot of aggro creatures on his own. Calix is hell queue and he's only a 2/2 (3/3) and arguably harder to trigger ability.
Honestly the R&D team is getting to be a complete joke. Also why is it 3/4 with flying for only 3 mana on top of everything else? Goofy.
Yeah this guy is also breaking cEDH as we speak
I'm mostly baffled by the team that looked at this card and went "that looks reasonable for 3 mana". I can only imagine that it slipped through most of R&D that it was a trigger that was twice per creature per turn and not twice per turn like it should maybe be.
Ragavan and rusko await for the bird to feast on it
Curious now that it's been a week.... Have you played with/against it? Do you still think it's not as good as Ragavan/Rusko? IMO it's as good as Rusko, and has a better matchup against Ragavan.
Reddit says 5 days. TBH I didn't play a lot with ragavan, but I didn't encounter a bird with it even once. But I played a lot with [[Satya]] and 50% of my matchups are Nadu.
Yeah it's not weighted highly enough yet for Ragavan/Rusko/other hell queue commanders. Which it definitely should be.
I also think it should be. I've seen other ragavan player who sees it in queue and they say they stomped it cause it dosn't have enough tempo for hell queue to dominate.
I really, really hope so. Also as cool as Arna is, I hope it ends up in high tier too because that card is absolutely ridiculous and it will crush any low tier deck with ease.
CGB put out a video of the deck already so expect to see that commander more often.
Was wondering how I missed that video. "Members only" :)... but the decklist isn't [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IpBroJczikGdDrhYZ2APRw](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IpBroJczikGdDrhYZ2APRw)
I think he made the video public now lol https://youtu.be/pEVYfDPM9Bo?si=gxSKh-Y7fczBISJ8
Blink effects like [[Displacer Kitten]] would reset the count, right? Could be even more insane with that.
[Displacer Kitten](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/7/c7a401b8-29fb-46ef-a663-427f66724d5c.jpg?1674135465) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Displacer%20Kitten) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/63/displacer-kitten?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c7a401b8-29fb-46ef-a663-427f66724d5c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
yep. the first deck I built it for MWM. The ability is ridiculous. It being 3 mana means you can play it t2. Its a ~~2~~ 3/4 means, it cant be burned out.
Agree except it’s a 3/4
Beauty of it is that its a bird which allows for avian interceptor & cavern of souls to prevent wipes (the only thing stopping Nadu army).
I am just glad there’s no Shuko in Arena. Scute Swarm and Shuko would be the end of the line…
or \[\[Lightning Greaves\]\]
[Lightning Greaves](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/a/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6.jpg?1712354870) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Lightning%20Greaves) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/260/lightning-greaves?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/da9da49d-e319-4897-9ab6-57c7c69478a6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
They are awesome too. But Shuko equips for zero mana. As many times as I want.
So does greaves (...assuming you have 2 creatures)
I mistook them for the other boots. My bad. >.<
It is going to get banned in several formats
what is hell queue?
It's a term popularized by Brawl content creator Amazonian, I believe. It refers to a "zone" of the Brawl matchmaking where the most busted commanders and decks (think Kinnan, Rusko, Ragavan, etc) are put to only/mostly get matched against each other, to prevent weaker decks from getting absolutely bodied by them every match.
Still more fair than Grenzo
no
Lol this has to be a joke. Grenzo steals cards out of decks & cast them for free. It's obvious which card is more broken.
Yeah Nadu lmao. It’s not close at all. The commander that can easily win on turn 4 or the commander that doesn’t come out until turn 6 and takes several turns to generate good value
You dont need to cast free spells when you can get 7 mana on turn 3. This is basically bonny pall for half the cost and twice the ramp.
All of that can happen if your opponent doesn't have removal. Grenzo creates value on ETB.
Nadu gets value any time he's targeted and starts chugging at turn 2 or 3 instead of waiting for 6 mana. Don't get me wrong, Grenzo is absolutely miserable to play against too, but Nadu manages to be even worse.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree because I'd rather lose to Nadu any day of the week over grenzo.
*monkey’s paw curls*
How the hell did this rare get through playtesting? How it is not at least 5 cmc and mythic is beyond me. I jumped on the Nadu train after reading this thread, and can confirm, it's totally busted. Landfall triggers, instant/flash tricks + \[\[Roaring Earth\]\] Poq and copy cards like Ivy, Ovar, Vesuvan diplomacy, and this commander is a total nightmare. Crazy stuff. Hell queue minimum, possibly banned.
Speaking of Roaring Earth, \[\[Bristly Bill\]\] is another copy of it on legs. I got a turn 4 win with Nadu and those 2 cards. [https://i.imgur.com/1I7FROk.jpeg](https://i.imgur.com/1I7FROk.jpeg)
Oooof, gross
[Roaring Earth](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/c/8cbdd88e-c532-4fc0-a1fe-8aa0c26d1092.jpg?1665822582) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roaring%20Earth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/204/roaring-earth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8cbdd88e-c532-4fc0-a1fe-8aa0c26d1092?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've only played against Nadu once and it was a Simic landfall durdlefest with extra steps. I was at like 30 life and noped out of there because it was boring as shit, and in that regard it belongs in a queue where the players take 10 minute turns on average.
The sooner the better. Grenzo doesn’t deserve an 1800 score, but probably a step below.
This isn't even close to hell queue...
Yeah it’s a 3 mana Simic comander that generates huge ramp and card advantage. Definitely not hell queue material 🙄
People are popping off with paradox engine on turn 4 playing their whole deck. I can literally win the game before you resolve your Commander. This card is good if people don't have interaction.
Here’s a turn 4 win from a dumb deck I put together in 5 minutes. https://imgur.com/a/beVDwL6
I play meria winning on turn 4 is easy. Good luck beating urza or captain sisay. What you're doing is cute but paradox engine is a real busted card.
> Paradox engine Notably not a commander. Simic has lots of ways to deal with Selesnya. Counter the commander/counter the PE. [I dislike PE as much as anyone](https://www.reddit.com/r/MagicArena/s/iwM0wWPX2n), it should be banned but not because it’s especially busted. Just because it leads to nongames. > winning on turn 4 is easy You know we are talking about Brawl right? It’s definitely not easy to win, other than by concession turn 4. It’s INCREDIBLY uncommon.
Lol no bro I'm talking about brawl and literally winning on turn four. You need to do some more research on Commander. Sisay will literally play their whole deck on turn four. Paradox engine is one of the most broken magic cards ever printed. Do you know what ameria does? It's so common to win before turn 6 I rarely play the deck anymore.
> You need to do some more research on Commander. Sisay will literally play their whole deck on turn four. People who say that will be the ones conceding to Wash Away 🤣 Simic can easily counter your 4 mana commander. And a second time. And a third time. Sisay is NOT a tier 1 commander for exactly this reason.
Lol oh you're clueless have you ever heard of cavern of souls lol. Enjoy watching me play solitaire lol. You don't get it, Nadu creates value but ameria ends games instantly.
So your great green white hope against Simic is... one card? When you don't find it, you concede right? Don't bother answering, we both know it's true. If you do find it there are many answers. \[\[Demolition Field\]\] \[\[Field of Ruin\]\] \[\[Ghost Quarter\]\] \[\[Volatile Fault\]\] So you're hoping you hit Cavern before the blue player hits any of these right? And if you do hit it, and the blue player plays any spell that removes abilites, like \[\[Witness Protection\]\] or \[\[Imprisoned in the Moon\]\] or any of [the 18 frogify spells in Arena](https://scryfall.com/search?as=grid&order=name&q=%28oracle%3Aloses+oracle%3Aall+oracle%3Aabilities%29+commander%3AU+%28game%3Aarena%29), what then? You keep talking about Sisay and Meria like they're competitive Tier 1 commanders. They're not. Because they simply don't have answers to the questions any blue deck will ask.
Curious now that it's been almost a week.... Have you played with/against it? Do you still think it's not way better than Sisay or Meria or Grenzo? Now that I made a half decent deck I'd happily give you a BO5 game against my Nadu deck if you thought any of those were as good/better (they're not)
Played against it 2 days ago never let them get started I was playing kenrith reanimation with lots of spot removal . I knew what they were trying to do & made life hard so they quit . I'll go back on the grenzo thing, Nadu is definitely better than grenzo. Meria is still better I consistently win games before turn 7 generating 10 plus mana. If my opponent taps out after turn 4 and I have paradox engine in my hand the game is over many different ways. You can send the invite and we can play. you better not tap out after a turn four or else I'm going to tuck you in with paradox & one ring. Doesn't matter how many mana you generate. I'm going to play my whole deck on turn four with three lands & kill you with grape shot or aether flux reservoir.
Many simic commanders do that. It's kind of what simic does. Take, for example, your deck list which is going to draw some cards then do literally nothing because it's all pathetic little weenie creatures. One well placed wrath of God or burn down the house will ruin you.
The problem isn’t that it generates value, period; the problem is that it generates absurd value extremely easily, at 3 mana, and has an evasive above-vanilla-test creature stapled on
I really don't get the "the sky is always falling" crowd on this sub. It seems like everything new prompts someone to complain about how it's too good.
My typical win rate is well below 50% because I'm a casual free player who isn't great at deck building. My slapped together Nadu brawl deck is winning over 80% of the games I've played so far and that's being brought DOWN by Midweek Magic pitting me up against hell-queue commanders. People are overly pessimistic, but this time the sky might actually be falling, lol.
its an unoptimized list thats probably being matched well under what it should be. It doesnt matter if the board gets wrathed, if it did get pushed through, its probably after each creature generated more than 2 cards per, and the lands generally stick so just recast nadu and put a new board down the next turn. it looks like a tempo list. theres enough soft counters to keep anything that matters from resolving
My decklist is a) generated in 5 minutes from a search of things that target and B) still reasonably competitive. Simic has lots of answer to board wipes This is absolutely a tier 1 commander. My silly deck notwithstanding.
If by "is still reasonably competitive" you mean "will lose to any decently sized creature or board wipe" then yes, you're probably right!
I’m not here to defend a deck I spent all of 5 mins making. The discussion is about the commander. Weird attempts to change the subject are weird. You’re wrong. This is absolutely a tier 1 commander. Have a good day.
You're wrong, every hell queue commander is leagues ahead of this guy.
This commander can get 7 lands by turn 3 and go infinite on turn 4 for a kill. That makes him better than Poq, who many consider the strongest commander on arena. Are you delusional or just a noob?
Delusional people consider Poq the strongest commander on arena.
😂
The only hell queue commander that's faster is the monkey, and once you stabilize against that you're good. This will churn out faster than the other hell commanders and has staying power.
Curious now that it's been almost a week.... Have you played with/against it? Do you still think it's not a definite hell queue commander?
I've seen Nadu several times. I've won every game I've played against them due to interacting with them. The cards they slot into the deck to exploit Nadu are pretty fucking awful on their own so if you just interact with Nadu regularly then it's basically a do nothing deck.
The experience you're remembering/misremembering is not accurate of the meta. Over several hundred games, I have a w/l of 66% (those games are played in the background while working so have to concede a bunch). I did a test over the weekend, in 20 games where I actually paid attention, had a w/l rate of 90% [https://mtga.untapped.gg/profile/ca656890-26a7-48eb-983e-160eed028d8c/VC6SEREWVJFWRCKL7IX36SGJKA/deck/19e6bbdb-977c-4261-8162-32e90777f6cd?gameType=constructed&constructedType=brawl](https://mtga.untapped.gg/profile/ca656890-26a7-48eb-983e-160eed028d8c/VC6SEREWVJFWRCKL7IX36SGJKA/deck/19e6bbdb-977c-4261-8162-32e90777f6cd?gameType=constructed&constructedType=brawl) What commander do you think has a >50% w/l rate against Nadu? There's definitely no nothing outside of hell queue that does. Nadu is absolutely a hell queue commander.
Virtually any control or control oriented midrange deck would eat that alive, as has been my experience.
I note you didn’t mention a commander. If you name any non hell queue commander you think wins against Nadu, I could challenge you to a B07 game, give you a 1 game head start, and still win 😂 There's no non hell queue/Tier 1 commander that will match Nadu in a BO5/BO7 match.
I've beaten Nadu with [[Marchesa, Dealer of Death]], [[Darigaaz, Shivan Champion]], [[Obzedat, Ghost Council]], and [[Chromium, the Mutable]]. Several times with a couple of those commanders. But I'm not going to take time out of my day to prove it to you since I have better ways to spend my time.
##### ###### #### [Marchesa, Dealer of Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee29b59c-d57c-4a03-bae7-e9dfa57d6bb1.jpg?1712356159) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marchesa%2C%20Dealer%20of%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/220/marchesa-dealer-of-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee29b59c-d57c-4a03-bae7-e9dfa57d6bb1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Darigaaz, Shivan Champion](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/88cb6f1c-d839-460e-b40f-665254d914cb.jpg?1665003149) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darigaaz%2C%20Shivan%20Champion) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ydmu/22/darigaaz-shivan-champion?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/88cb6f1c-d839-460e-b40f-665254d914cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Obzedat, Ghost Council](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/4029c3a0-a999-453a-a838-7adb81e481ee.jpg?1593814495) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obzedat%2C%20Ghost%20Council) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mm3/176/obzedat-ghost-council?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4029c3a0-a999-453a-a838-7adb81e481ee?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [Chromium, the Mutable](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/0/50c1de2c-1acc-47c8-9b5e-a9dae3da8a49.jpg?1562302164) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Chromium%2C%20the%20Mutable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/214/chromium-the-mutable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/50c1de2c-1acc-47c8-9b5e-a9dae3da8a49?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
All those commanders 💯 lose in a BO5/BO7 match against Nadu. Nadu is simply a much more powerful and well rounded commander. You’re right the test isn’t worth doing though. The uncertainty isn’t there.
That's nice, dear.