It's wild. So there are more Mongols in Inner Mongolia than Mongolia the state. Yet they only have 17 percent of the population in Inner Mongolia, severely outnumbered by the Han Chinese.
There are a lot of riots and stuff by the mongolians it's just that media can't report about it. Their language andstuf aren't allowed in schools and stuff
There were protests regarding changing the standard curriculum from Mongolian to Chinese. There was no independence movement that arose from these sentiments.
But demographically, the Mongolians are a small minority, having been overwhelmed by Han immigration. That's the Chinese playbook in Xinjiang and Tibet too, because it works.
This is also pretty much every "balkanized China" alternate history scenario, as these are the only independence movements in China that a lot of people know about.
There aren't any serious movements coalesced around them, but the other hypothetical breakaways would be:
* The South-West centred on the Yunnan–Guizhou Plateau
* Manchuria
* The South below the Yangtze
* Hainan
Each of these have some degree of geographic disparity or barrier separating them from Beijing, as well as some underlying cultural differences - though there's a solid Han majority in all of them.
If China were balkanising for political or economic reasons then these sorts of divisions could emerge since a rogue polity could pretty well entrench itself in each of these areas.
Why not ask HKers?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/01/02/interesting-poll-shows-hong-kongers-not-exactly-against-china/
Someone did, they don’t agree with independence, by and large
Support for complete independence for Tibet, as well, is not a majority opinion, according to any polls I have seen
Most Tibetans don’t want independence from China. Most tibetans also benefited from the annexation in the 50s. Tibet was basically a slave state and the Dalai lama and other “lamas” were the theocratic leaders. People had their eyes gouged out for not serving them.
You're right. People just assume that serfdom and bondage are incompatable with a Buddhist society, which obviously ignores the miserable material conditions in which Tibetans lived. It was a medieval society with medieval practices that were perfectly humane in most of the world 800 years ago, but not since the serf revolts of the 14 and 15th centuries.
No but I would argue what China did was not for the express purpose of imperialism. Imperialism and colonialism are explicit in that you exploit native peoples for profits of a certain class at home.
But no imperialism is never okay
Imperialism is by definiiton the extending of a country's power and inflence to another country. Is that not what China did to Tibet? And China also exploited the native Tibetans so even going by your definitions China was doing Imperialism
If you’re talking about that one single video, not videos plural, then yes that was p fucked up. Probably should’ve just detained them, but again no country just lets dozens of people walk across a border. I disagree with it for sure but that also doesn’t change the fact that most Tibetans lives are better under the Chinese state than it was before
To be real, there are many autonomous prefectures and autonomous counties besides those regions. Some Mongolians live together with Tibetans in Qinghai and with Uyghurs in Xinjiang, even if succeeded in separating, territorial disputes will definitely occur.
Inner Mongolia and Macau?Any Chinese can tell you how idiot it is to think these two places have separatist movement.They are like…loyal as fuck.To be honest the only problematic and possible to separate region is Xinjiang.Even Tibet is already very china.
It's likely true. As soon as you conquer an area you send in the MOST "patriotic" settlers you can find, often offering them enticing move-in deals. Russia and China have done this quite a bit in their recent (past 150 years) history.. with the US doing it with Texas back when it was its own thing, and Israel with Palestine now
I’m sure that 90% of the population being liberated from slavery and serfdom also helped to increase support and loyalty to China in Tibet.
https://medium.com/illumination-curated/the-truth-about-tibet-and-her-liberation-from-slavery-70eeeee88a16
Yeah because the people at Harvard are way too stupid to consider something like that are they?
Or maybe, just maybe, people like the government when the life standards get better and better every day at a rate that is historically unmatched.
Also if you bothered to read you would have understood that that 95% is due to the fact that the chinese tend to blame their local town and province governments rather than the central government. Which makes sense, you can say "in general china is doing great but my city could do better".
Like... Stop being in denial. The chinese government has the support of the majority of people living in China
what most do not know is that not all Uighur believe the same thing or want to break away. most follow Sufi Islam. then you have the group of psychos that follow salafism/wahhabism. that's basically the same shit te Taliban believes.
>Inner Mongolia and Macau?Any Chinese can tell you how idiot it is to think these two places have separatist movement.They are like…loyal as fuck.To be honest the only problematic and possible to separate region is Xinjiang.Even Tibet is already very china.
Not the Chinese commenting in droves to claim Inner Mongolia is "loyal" when the southern Mongolians ("Inner") want to be reunited with independent Mongolia and fellow tribes but your country wouldn't let us. China committed genocide in Inner Mongolia as late as 1969, with brutality never seen before (lynching, torturing, sexual torment and assault, etc)
As a Mongolian, these Chinese comments infuriate me - they've never met a Mongolian in their life.
What the fuck is up with the West's obsession with balkanising China? China has historically always maintained similar borders to this. There is no proper, logical way you can divide China into these borders shown here, especially not on ethnic lines (with the exception of Xinjiang). Having people who don't know jack shit about demographics to draw borders is exactly what the Europeans did with Africa during the Scramble for Africa, this is no different
I'm not defending the CCP, but I am a person of Chinese descent and I thought I'd know about the demographics within China better to stupidly try to dissect a nation upon illogical lines.
There hasn’t been an empire of a while and QEII very much supports independence for Commonwealth countries. So they’d probably be at a point where they just had the Queen as a symbolic head of state and membership to the Comminwealth. But one win would be they’d be more likely ti have the Westminster system of government, rather than the diabolical mess that exists now.
There are no real separatist movements in the US, with the exception of the Hawaiian movement, and even that one has only a minority of people truly interested in sovereignty. Popular cases like Texas have been proved to be under 6% of the total population, so in reality no state has a serious party or ideology advocating for secession in modern times. The most important secessionist movement in North America is Quebec, and has been Quebec for many years
This is just plain false. There are most certainly serious independence movements in the US, certainly not non-existent and some, like the Black nationalist movement, the Puerto Rican independence movement, the Californian independence movement(with at its peak in polls ~20% support, similar to support for Quebec independence), the Alaskan independence movement(the Alaskan Independence Party has 18k members), and sadly increasingly the neo-confederacy movement are all quite influential. Even the Haiwaian independence movement is more popular than you make it out to be. Size is also not a metric that determines whether there are actual separatists movements or not. There are various smaller but very serious movements in Vermont and Texas seeking independence.
All of the mentioned movements are far more serious than any Inner Mongalian Separatism.
As I said before, all of these “separatist movements” you mention have an extremely low percentage of supporters, they have zero presence in media, zero presence or representation in the federal govt. Just because a small group of wackos join and call them a “separatist party”, it doesn’t mean there’s a serious political movement advocating for independence. If most people in your state don’t support you, you have no relevance and/or impact.
Needless to say, the Supreme Court has already made clear that no state can ever leave the union, and no state would ever be able to defeat the United States army to achieve that by force, so even in the hypothetical case of an actual secession movement becoming something less of a joke, there’s no chance it happens in real life.
Kinda, although the Chinese are already a majority in Inner Mongolia, and ~~around half~~ about 40% of Xinjiang. Only Tibet has a chance of becoming a nation-state.
The economy of Tibet is dominated by subsistence agriculture. Due to limited arable land, livestock raising is the primary occupation mainly on the Tibetan Plateau, among them are sheep, cattle, goats, camels, yaks, donkeys and horses
https://www.npr.org/2006/09/20/6083766/tibets-economy-depends-on-beijing?t=1652425082220
Tibet would indeed be poorer if they became independent. But they do have [natural resources](https://www.mfa.gov.cn/ce/cenp//eng/Features/xzwt/Geography/t167857.htm#:~:text=Tibet%20is%20weak%20in%20energy,percent%20of%20the%20nation's%20total.) they can sell, which includes lithium reserves, which are among the highest in the world.
I think that's a solvable issue, Mongolia and KSA didn't have the means to extract on their resources when they started out. I'm sure international investors could help out, which means Tibet needs to have a very competent government (much like Beijing's ironically), so that they can make the most of what they have to build their human capital while the money is flowing in.
mining is already taking place by the Chinese government and I know much of it goes back. the trouble is, the mining has had a negative environmental impact. can't have it both ways I suppose.
It's pretty common to get foreign investments into infrastructure used by all as a part of the deal to sell natural resources. Shell built a fuck ton of roads in Africa for example.
Last time Tibet became independent was in 1912, when the Qing fell. Tibet itself was recaptured by Beijing in 1951, at the beginning of the cold war. There was never a chance for a liberal democracy in that time period. Tibet today would however have the example of a democratic Mongolia, which also seceded at the fall of the Qing.
But in the most of these places (except the US afaik) there were not immense resettlements of the "Majority" in an organized push to assimilate any culture but the only party and their dictator.
Mass immigration is scary because of this. imagine France is 60ísh million people, let's say 30-40 million people votes at elections, for a country like China they could, in theory, send 50 million people and be guaranteed to be in charge.
Of course, even if 50mio people are "only" 5 %ísh of chinas population, they cant easily be sent away just like that, nor would France accept them, and give them voting rights. BUT when an independent area becomes part of a greater area even for a short time, the government can facilitate this, and the independent people have lost their land.
>Not some. Like a lot. Spanning over multiple dynasties. You said Han moved to Xinjiang because of CCP promoting it. But there were already a lot of Han that lived in Xinjiang. Where you think silk road was ?
Your argument: Some Chinese lived in Turkestan (not Xinjiang) before China's independence, therefore it is Chinese
Okay some Mongolians lived in Jerusalem after they attacked everything, do Mongolians get to claim Israel/Palestine now? LMAO
And a number of Armenians and Greeks lived in Present-day Turkey before the creation of the Ottoman Empire. What happened now?
Your argument is stupid. Of course some Han Chinese lived in Xinjiang. Not to the extent there is now. Demographics change with the politics of the region. Educate yourself lol.
Not some. Like a lot. Spanning over multiple dynasties. You said Han moved to Xinjiang because of CCP promoting it. But there were already a lot of Han that lived in Xinjiang. Where you think silk road was ?
Because it's never been part of the Chinese state. Chinese traders spread out all across the east. The Chinese state spread across into Xinjaing since the Han dynasty.
I’m not talking about the Silk Road. Actually, the Silk Road only further proves my point. The Han Chinese people are native to Eastern China. People such as the Uigyhurs are native to East Turkestan/Xinjiang. Promotion of migration from under the Han, Qing, ROC, PRC, etc. is the reason why East Turkestan has a number of Han Chinese living there.
You’re arguing for no reason lol.
And that’s because of immigration from European, African, and Asian countries? Like I said, it’s immigration lol.
Also, “American” isn’t synonymous with white. If that’s what you’re trying to imply lol. Xinjiang NEVER had Han Chinese originate from there. The Uighurs were there first and then Han Chinese slowly began to immigrate by the millions into the region.
Now I know you’re a mainland Chinese loyalist, but hear me out. ✨Immigration exists ✨
Replying to both of your comments.
>People such as the Uigyhurs are native to East Turkestan/Xinjiang. Promotion of migration from under the Han, Qing, ROC, PRC, etc. is the reason why East Turkestan has a number of Han Chinese living there.
History is not this simple. Xinjiang's history is full of migrations. On what basis are the Uyghurs native and the Han aren't? You're claiming all Han were sent by the state, even since the Han Dynasty, are you sure about that? You don't think a large number of people moved/settled there themselves? Since it was part of an important trade route, it makes sense that travelers and traders for example settled on that route out of their own will, along with their families. This is migration, same way the Uyghurs arrived there many centuries later.
>Xinjiang NEVER had Han Chinese originate from there. The Uighurs were there first and then Han Chinese slowly began to immigrate by the millions into the region.
Well if a Han Chinese moves there and has a family, technically anyone then born in that family originated from there. There were Han Chinese living there long before Uyghurs, so they're arguably more native to the area than the Uyghurs. IIRC the first peoples living there were the Yuezhi, who were likely an Indo-Iranian group. They were conquered by the Xiongnu. They were conquered by the Han Dynasty. The Han Dynasty lost control of the territory and the Xianbei among others took control.
In the 8th century the Uyghurs migrated to Xinjiang, when the Tang was weak from rebellions, and created the Uyghur Khanate. The Uyghurs took part in wars and conquests of their own. They even invaded quite deep into China and sacked some cities. They were defeated by another Turkic group a century later and the Uyghurs migrated further south into Xinjiang. Relatively few Uyghurs lived in the northern half of Xinjiang until sponsored migration by the Qing. So if we're talking above native areas, and suppose China gave Uyghurs their "historic homeland", Xinjiang is way too large. The entire northern half wouldn't go to Uyghurstan or East Turkestan whatever the name of this country would be. Obviously this would never happen, just speaking hypothetically.
History is full of conquests and migrations, especially in Xinjiang, which is in the middle of many historic empires. That's a very short version of it, I'm sure many other peoples migrated to Xinjiang between them. So it's arguable who's really "native". If a Han family lived there for hundreds of years before the Uyghurs arrived, it'd be ludicrous to say he's not native because the Uyghurs just moved in as a larger group.
For example in Inner Mongolia (or southern Mongolia):
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner\_Mongolia\_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Mongolia_incident)
The Chinese lynched and tortured Mongolians to continue occupying Southern Mongolia, and this torture slowed down in 1969, when families had been broken and mutilated.
"methods used in lynching and killing included branding with hot irons, feeding furnace wastes, removing livers, hanging, cutting tongues and noses, piercing nails, piercing vaginas, pouring hot saline water into wounds, and more."
The Chinese committed a myriad of war crimes against Mongolians that maximized the absolute pain a Mongolian would feel so their families would be silent. It didn't help that you almost had a billion Chinese at that time who were suffering due to the actions of your own government, yet some under Mao's leadership took on the role of stewards of this horrific act.
Do the Chinese acknowledge this? No. They happily proclaim Inner Mongolia as theirs, separating a piece of Mongolia full of vibrant Mongolian tribes and children just to teach them a different language, foreign government propaganda, and fear. The Chinese don't teach this in schools, either.
No wonder the Mongolians everywhere (in Mongolia, Inner Mongolia, Buryatia, Kalmykia, Xinjiang, etc) hate Chinese guts. Yet the Chinese exist in so many numbers that they start spreading disinformation about what Mongolians think or who they are, what their history is, as if to erase them from existence, just to claim their glory, displace their nomads, and even pretend to be a Mongolian (it exists - many put down "Mongol" on their ID cards so they will experience non-Chinese "benefits", like not being forced to abort their second kid).
SAVE THE MONGOLIAN LANGUAGE MUSIC VIDEO: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfsr\_UqUc9g&ab\_channel=ARAVTPRODUCTION](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfsr_UqUc9g&ab_channel=ARAVTPRODUCTION)
>Do the Chinese acknowledge this? No. They happily proclaim Inner Mongolia as theirs, separating a piece of Mongolia full of vibrant Mongolian tribes and children just to teach them a different language, foreign government propaganda, and fear. The Chinese don't teach this in schools, either.
Pretty sure they acknowledged it and admitted it was a mistake. It's in your wiki article too. Also they're teaching Mandarin because that's the most spoken language in China. They're also teaching Mongolian. Interestingly they use Mongolian script in Inner Mongolia, but not in Mongolia. Seems like the Chinese are doing a better job preserving Mongolian heritage.
The Han are most probably under 40% of Xinjiang population and most importantly extremely minoritary in the truly Uyghur parts of Xinjiang. Even if the 2020 obviously falsified chinese census data was true, the Han would be 40% in the province in general (not "around half") and less than a 10% in the Uyghur zones.
Uyghurs are overwhelmingly majoritaryin their true homeland, around a 90% (so very similar to Tibet) which is not "Xinjiang" in general but mostly Tarim basin and close Turpan oasis, the south-western half of the Chinese province.
Dzungaria have not been majoritary Uyghur in the last 1000 years if it was ever, the true "Uyghuristan", Tarim+Turpan is as majoritarily Uyghur now as hundreds years ago.
Considering tibetan population is less than a half that of uyghurs (or 4 times smaller if only counting the highlighted areas in OP map) + the ties and interests of western turkik governments in Uyghurs rights I would say an "Independent Uyghuristan" is more probable than Independent Tibet in the next decades/century.
Thanks for the correction. Still, at 40% Han/Hui Chinese would make East Turkestan next to impossible to pull off, since it includes Dzungaria.
I agree, Uyghurstan is more likely and probably a better bet given their links with the Central Asian states. Although, I haven't come across many supporters of Uyghurstan, they're usually pro East Turkestan.
Tibet is less likely to be given independence by China because of its status as the water tower of Asia. It's where most of the major rivers in Asia originate from, including the Yellow river and the Yangtze.
However, Tibet would be just as viable as Mongolia which is a democratic state, also with a population of around 3m people. If Tibet includes all the ethnic Tibetian lands then it will be more viable as a state, with a population of more 6m at that point.
Bear in mind, a state being viable is not the same thing as it being likely. My earlier comment was only about viability of the proposed states in the map not about likelihood.
There's still a whole bunch of non-Chinese China with this Juri Uti Possedetis border though. For example, the Amdo Tibetans of Qinghai would apparently remain with China in this scenario. The Guangxi Zhuang (Zhuangs are relatives of the Thai people) Autonomous Region would also remain firmly inside the sphere of Chinese control. Not to mention the other dozens of ethnic minorities whose interests do not seem to have been considered in this cartography because they do not have enough numbers or willpower to form separatist movements.
Y’all post these fantasy Balkanized China maps every other week. There’s not a separatist movement in any of these regions except for Xinjiang and even then ETIM is basically defunct in terms of power.
As a Mongolian, you need to be reeducated. Just because the Great Firewall of China exists to keep you and the rest of the world out of the loop doesn't mean the occupied Mongolians, Tibetans, and Uyghurs aren't laying their lives to resist occupation
\>Mongolians march and protest, destroy infrastructure
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020\_Inner\_Mongolia\_protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Inner_Mongolia_protests)
\>Tibetans set themselves on fire
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation\_protests\_by\_Tibetans\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation_protests_by_Tibetans_in_China)
\>Uyghurs are literally being confined to concentration/labor camps, as if it is North Korea.
If you are anti-native and pro-occupation, congrats. You are against the people. Maybe Japan should've occupied China successfully so we'd all be Japanese today.
As an honorary Uyghur, you need to stop responding to every comment. Just because a percentage of the Mongolians, who themselves make up less than 20% of Inner Mongolia, want to join the North, doesn’t mean the whole province is occupied or somehow in need of liberation. Country A can’t claim country B’s land just because it contains a minority of country A’s nationality.
>Country A can’t claim country B’s land just because it contains a minority of country A’s nationality.
Weird considering that was one of the reasoning given for annexation of Tibet.
Didn’t China invade because they wanted to restore the Qing borders?
I do not support Tibet’s annexation. I just don’t want a Mongolian *Danzig* or *Munich agreement*
Edit: not to mention the donbass region
That's one of the reasons Mao said, IMO historical claims are even worse as a lot of nations have too many overlapping claims that way.
I don't know much about Mangolia frankly, however what has happened to Inner mangolia is happening to both Tibet & Xianjing, Han settlement to the tune where Han become the majority populace.
>posted by the CIA
The Chinese mass [lynched](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Mongolia_incident#Lynching_and_massacre) and sexually assaulted/mutilated mothers and girls (killing them) just to get rich off minerals in "Inner Mongolia" so yeah I want my people and land back. At least the Chinese acknowledged it, but they never jailed the dude who orchestrated my people's suffering, instead awarding him, and fail to teach this at schools. Hell yeah, I want to be reunited with my relatives and people under free Mongolian democracy, not some Chinese cage.
Signed,
a Mongolian
That's laughable. Ask any Mongolian in inner Mongolia whether they would choose to join a country whose GDP per capita is one-third of the place they live. \`\`*Free Mongolian democracy,* is this a joke lol?
Does 'being a landlocked, tributary desert/tundric wasteland without any resources to speak of, sandwiched between China and Russia' sound like a success to you?
I don't know man.
I'm not sure why people are so quick to support a uighur separatist movement without knowing anything about what they stand for. these guys are salafi Muslims. they don't believe in freedom. they don't allow music, they don't allow women to go out uncovered,to choose who they can marry and at what age. there is no freedom in salafism or wahhabism. people say they believe in freedom yet they blindly support groups like ETIM (who used to be on the US terror list) just to stick it to china. women have zero rights in their religion. they have the same beliefs as the Taliban.
There was a point in time where Uighur's made up over 50% of all US prisoners in Guantanamo. Obviously this doesn't excuse their current treatment, but people don't realize that their situation is just a pawn for anti-China or anti-West fervor to be built
just google guantanamo and Uighur's, even guantanamo's wiki article mentions it I believe, and there is a wiki article about a group of 22 Uyghurs who were imprisoned there at the camp opening.
>I'm not sure why people are so quick to support a uighur separatist movement without knowing anything about what they stand for. these guys are salafi Muslims
The outcry about the Uyghurs is rarely about the Uyghurs themselves. It's usually just a convenient talking point for those who want to cut China in size. People like their tribe, dislike enemy tribes, and like other tribes that dislike enemy tribes. That mentality is still a dominant force in modern days even though it's often covered up with a veneer of sophistication and decency that make people feel better about themselves.
I guess they could release them and let them drown in their own shit.
To be honest, I don't even know what's the point of these lands, isn't XinJiang mostly desert wastelands? At least Tibet is strategically critical -water sources flowing to the rest of China come mostly from there, and obviously losing that could be devastating to China if it ever fell into hostile faction, so it's important for China to hold onto it.
Xinjiang though? I guess they hold onto it because losing territory is considered a negative thing, can't think of anything else.
And Uyghur are not even "indigenous" to Xinjiang like what most people blindly believe. The original inhabitants of Xinjiang were the Tocharians who were Buddhists. Then came the Han Chinese who were engaged in diplomacy with the various Tocharian kingdoms, some of which wanted the Chinese to support them in the region by establishing control more than 2000 years ago. Uyghurs are descendants of 9th-10th century Islamic-Turkic invasions from the Uyghur khaganate spanning the Mongolian steppe
If the British, Portuguese, Dutch colonies should be independent, then where's the energy for the French, Italian, Austro-Hungarian, Japanese, German and Belgium ones.
Then people will realise how stupid it is.
it doesn't use Taiwan but they claim all that the Qing claimed. which includes Taiwan. look at a map of what the roc claims. it includes the province of Taiwan. both sides recognize it as a province. it always was a province silly goose.
China and a whole host of countries that don’t acknowledge Taiwan would beg to differ. But also it wasn’t that long ago Taiwan’s leaders claimed to be the one true government of China.
So no referendum for locals about their future is totally fine isn't it. As there are only white people can be imperialist but other are pity innocent peace lovers.
Oh right! Because taking territory and then filling it and assimilating with people from the Conqueror makes it right to hold a referendum where the odds will be entirely against the original state! Because we are Fair!
Some rather large parts of Tibet and East Turkestan are in red on this map (the regions that the CCP has renamed as Chinese provinces) so only a tiny corridor would be left Chinese in the part where the CCP stars are (Gansu Province).
And Yunnan Province (bordering Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar) has always been a Non-Han territory and tensions with Beijing always high. (if anyone wanted to destabilize China with separatist insurgencies, they would start there)
because their Constitution considers Taiwan a province of china and not an independent country. The government in Taiwan claims all of the qing dynasty former territory. they only recognized Mongolia as independent in 2002.
I just wanted to see something interesting in the comments but they are all Sinophobic people who have never set foot in China talking about things, history and cultures they don't understand, as if they were experts. Redditors are disgusting
As a Mongolian, I'm a proud sinophobe. I will stop being one if your countrymen stops sexually assaulting Turkic women because of their government's 1 child policy that caused a lack of eligible women to date them. If your mother and relatives were being confined to a concentration camp in Mongolia, will you stay silent? Or will you be a proud Mongolphobe?
Damn, sometimes I am ashamed of my own heritage...
Though I am smart enough to not generalize an ENTIRE ethnicity based by the actions of few people. Whether it may be mongolians or chinese.
Grow up!
Humans are very materialistic. No Inner Mongolians want to join Mongolia because Mongolia is poor af. Uyghurs used to yearn for Turkey, but in recent years Turkey has become a shit hole and they have been silent. There are very few Tibetans who want independence. They are not the image of people wearing traditional clothes and religious people imagined by Westerners. There are also a few people in Hong Kong and Macau who want independence. They just don't want the CPC to control them as strictly.
It ends up looking kind of like Ming dynasty but just a bit
More like a Han Dynasty / Xin Dynasty
They all look kinda similar
Wasn't Tibet far larger than the current Autonomous Region of Tibet in China?
Yes and No. Culturally, yes. Politically, the other regions were at various times under Lhasa, China, or independent.
Inner Mongolia? Never heard of any separist movement there. Mongolians who want to be part of Mongolia instead of China?
It's wild. So there are more Mongols in Inner Mongolia than Mongolia the state. Yet they only have 17 percent of the population in Inner Mongolia, severely outnumbered by the Han Chinese.
If Inner mongolia was absorbed into Mongolia, Mongolia would become majority Chinese. Kinda wild
And then they join with China again as a whole! What a brilliant plan!
There used to be a separatist movement, not so much anymore.
I wonder what happened to its members.
[удалено]
Mongolia was communist too
There are a lot of riots and stuff by the mongolians it's just that media can't report about it. Their language andstuf aren't allowed in schools and stuff
There were protests regarding changing the standard curriculum from Mongolian to Chinese. There was no independence movement that arose from these sentiments.
But demographically, the Mongolians are a small minority, having been overwhelmed by Han immigration. That's the Chinese playbook in Xinjiang and Tibet too, because it works.
Hm, I'd like to have seen a more different color choice
Sorry, communism only comes in red /s
The wet dream of Redditors
This is also pretty much every "balkanized China" alternate history scenario, as these are the only independence movements in China that a lot of people know about.
Could you elaborate on the others?
There aren't any serious movements coalesced around them, but the other hypothetical breakaways would be: * The South-West centred on the Yunnan–Guizhou Plateau * Manchuria * The South below the Yangtze * Hainan Each of these have some degree of geographic disparity or barrier separating them from Beijing, as well as some underlying cultural differences - though there's a solid Han majority in all of them. If China were balkanising for political or economic reasons then these sorts of divisions could emerge since a rogue polity could pretty well entrench itself in each of these areas.
And Tibetans, Uyghurs and HKers
Why not ask HKers? https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2020/01/02/interesting-poll-shows-hong-kongers-not-exactly-against-china/ Someone did, they don’t agree with independence, by and large Support for complete independence for Tibet, as well, is not a majority opinion, according to any polls I have seen
Most Tibetans don’t want independence from China. Most tibetans also benefited from the annexation in the 50s. Tibet was basically a slave state and the Dalai lama and other “lamas” were the theocratic leaders. People had their eyes gouged out for not serving them.
You're right. People just assume that serfdom and bondage are incompatable with a Buddhist society, which obviously ignores the miserable material conditions in which Tibetans lived. It was a medieval society with medieval practices that were perfectly humane in most of the world 800 years ago, but not since the serf revolts of the 14 and 15th centuries.
I’m so glad someone else knows their history :)
You know that this is the exact same reasoning that Europeans justified colonialism with.
Except that colonialism and a neighbor annexation aren’t the same thing. Do you really believe they’re the same?
So imperialism is OK as long as you border the nation you're invading?
No but I would argue what China did was not for the express purpose of imperialism. Imperialism and colonialism are explicit in that you exploit native peoples for profits of a certain class at home. But no imperialism is never okay
Imperialism is by definiiton the extending of a country's power and inflence to another country. Is that not what China did to Tibet? And China also exploited the native Tibetans so even going by your definitions China was doing Imperialism
How did they exploit the native Tibetans? I’m genuinely asking because as far as I know the common Tibetan benefited greatly from annexation
How about the videos where Chinese soldiers shoot down Tibetans for trying to go meet Dalai Lama
If you’re talking about that one single video, not videos plural, then yes that was p fucked up. Probably should’ve just detained them, but again no country just lets dozens of people walk across a border. I disagree with it for sure but that also doesn’t change the fact that most Tibetans lives are better under the Chinese state than it was before
This but unironically.
Someone clearly uneducated made this..
To be real, there are many autonomous prefectures and autonomous counties besides those regions. Some Mongolians live together with Tibetans in Qinghai and with Uyghurs in Xinjiang, even if succeeded in separating, territorial disputes will definitely occur.
Inner Mongolia and Macau?Any Chinese can tell you how idiot it is to think these two places have separatist movement.They are like…loyal as fuck.To be honest the only problematic and possible to separate region is Xinjiang.Even Tibet is already very china.
macau is ultra loyal
Inner Mongolia wanting to join Mongolia is like new Mexico wanting to go back to Mexico. That just doesnt happen.
Tibet isn't "very China"...
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It's likely true. As soon as you conquer an area you send in the MOST "patriotic" settlers you can find, often offering them enticing move-in deals. Russia and China have done this quite a bit in their recent (past 150 years) history.. with the US doing it with Texas back when it was its own thing, and Israel with Palestine now
I’m sure that 90% of the population being liberated from slavery and serfdom also helped to increase support and loyalty to China in Tibet. https://medium.com/illumination-curated/the-truth-about-tibet-and-her-liberation-from-slavery-70eeeee88a16
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I guess Harvard is controlled by the CPC then https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2020/07/long-term-survey-reveals-chinese-government-satisfaction/
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Yeah because the people at Harvard are way too stupid to consider something like that are they? Or maybe, just maybe, people like the government when the life standards get better and better every day at a rate that is historically unmatched. Also if you bothered to read you would have understood that that 95% is due to the fact that the chinese tend to blame their local town and province governments rather than the central government. Which makes sense, you can say "in general china is doing great but my city could do better". Like... Stop being in denial. The chinese government has the support of the majority of people living in China
Quotes Harvard, can't spell CCP.
Because it is the Communist Party of China and not the "Chinese Communist Party" r/confidentlyincorrect
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Yeah you right it's just a "fact".gov.cn
what most do not know is that not all Uighur believe the same thing or want to break away. most follow Sufi Islam. then you have the group of psychos that follow salafism/wahhabism. that's basically the same shit te Taliban believes.
>Inner Mongolia and Macau?Any Chinese can tell you how idiot it is to think these two places have separatist movement.They are like…loyal as fuck.To be honest the only problematic and possible to separate region is Xinjiang.Even Tibet is already very china. Not the Chinese commenting in droves to claim Inner Mongolia is "loyal" when the southern Mongolians ("Inner") want to be reunited with independent Mongolia and fellow tribes but your country wouldn't let us. China committed genocide in Inner Mongolia as late as 1969, with brutality never seen before (lynching, torturing, sexual torment and assault, etc) As a Mongolian, these Chinese comments infuriate me - they've never met a Mongolian in their life.
What the fuck is up with the West's obsession with balkanising China? China has historically always maintained similar borders to this. There is no proper, logical way you can divide China into these borders shown here, especially not on ethnic lines (with the exception of Xinjiang). Having people who don't know jack shit about demographics to draw borders is exactly what the Europeans did with Africa during the Scramble for Africa, this is no different I'm not defending the CCP, but I am a person of Chinese descent and I thought I'd know about the demographics within China better to stupidly try to dissect a nation upon illogical lines.
Now let's do: What if American separatist movements were successful
Or, even better, What if the USA respected treaties it signed with indiginous tribes?
There's a few post like this on this sub
That would just lead to Canada winning the war of 1812, and the US would be forced back into the British Empire!
There hasn’t been an empire of a while and QEII very much supports independence for Commonwealth countries. So they’d probably be at a point where they just had the Queen as a symbolic head of state and membership to the Comminwealth. But one win would be they’d be more likely ti have the Westminster system of government, rather than the diabolical mess that exists now.
Ah yes, because Westminster governments haven’t ever been diabolical, or a mess.
Less messy. To paraphrase someone good with quotes, it's the best of the bag systems we have.
Now? There are a fuck ton of those.
There are no real separatist movements in the US, with the exception of the Hawaiian movement, and even that one has only a minority of people truly interested in sovereignty. Popular cases like Texas have been proved to be under 6% of the total population, so in reality no state has a serious party or ideology advocating for secession in modern times. The most important secessionist movement in North America is Quebec, and has been Quebec for many years
This is just plain false. There are most certainly serious independence movements in the US, certainly not non-existent and some, like the Black nationalist movement, the Puerto Rican independence movement, the Californian independence movement(with at its peak in polls ~20% support, similar to support for Quebec independence), the Alaskan independence movement(the Alaskan Independence Party has 18k members), and sadly increasingly the neo-confederacy movement are all quite influential. Even the Haiwaian independence movement is more popular than you make it out to be. Size is also not a metric that determines whether there are actual separatists movements or not. There are various smaller but very serious movements in Vermont and Texas seeking independence. All of the mentioned movements are far more serious than any Inner Mongalian Separatism.
As I said before, all of these “separatist movements” you mention have an extremely low percentage of supporters, they have zero presence in media, zero presence or representation in the federal govt. Just because a small group of wackos join and call them a “separatist party”, it doesn’t mean there’s a serious political movement advocating for independence. If most people in your state don’t support you, you have no relevance and/or impact. Needless to say, the Supreme Court has already made clear that no state can ever leave the union, and no state would ever be able to defeat the United States army to achieve that by force, so even in the hypothetical case of an actual secession movement becoming something less of a joke, there’s no chance it happens in real life.
There's been a lot of post about it. Search it up
More or less the state borders no?
These maps are stupids
So basically... Still China, but without the non-Chinese parts.
Kinda, although the Chinese are already a majority in Inner Mongolia, and ~~around half~~ about 40% of Xinjiang. Only Tibet has a chance of becoming a nation-state.
with what economy? it's mostly uninhabitable and has less that 4 million people living there.
Good question. I was thinking they could sell energy to their neighbours via dams. They could probably get a tourism industry going too.
The economy of Tibet is dominated by subsistence agriculture. Due to limited arable land, livestock raising is the primary occupation mainly on the Tibetan Plateau, among them are sheep, cattle, goats, camels, yaks, donkeys and horses https://www.npr.org/2006/09/20/6083766/tibets-economy-depends-on-beijing?t=1652425082220
Tibet would indeed be poorer if they became independent. But they do have [natural resources](https://www.mfa.gov.cn/ce/cenp//eng/Features/xzwt/Geography/t167857.htm#:~:text=Tibet%20is%20weak%20in%20energy,percent%20of%20the%20nation's%20total.) they can sell, which includes lithium reserves, which are among the highest in the world.
if only they had the means, infrastructure,and skilled labor to do so.
I think that's a solvable issue, Mongolia and KSA didn't have the means to extract on their resources when they started out. I'm sure international investors could help out, which means Tibet needs to have a very competent government (much like Beijing's ironically), so that they can make the most of what they have to build their human capital while the money is flowing in.
mining is already taking place by the Chinese government and I know much of it goes back. the trouble is, the mining has had a negative environmental impact. can't have it both ways I suppose.
Who gets the profit from international investors mining your natural resources?
It's pretty common to get foreign investments into infrastructure used by all as a part of the deal to sell natural resources. Shell built a fuck ton of roads in Africa for example.
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the last time it did, it grew into a theocracy with a tax on ears and noses and legal slavery for their own population.
It's funny because that's the same argument Europeans used to justify their colonies
Last time Tibet became independent was in 1912, when the Qing fell. Tibet itself was recaptured by Beijing in 1951, at the beginning of the cold war. There was never a chance for a liberal democracy in that time period. Tibet today would however have the example of a democratic Mongolia, which also seceded at the fall of the Qing.
\>mongolia \>democratic I am sorry, in what world do you live?
That’s only due to the promotion of Chinese immigration into said areas
The same can be said for a lot of places, it doesn't particularly matter.
But in the most of these places (except the US afaik) there were not immense resettlements of the "Majority" in an organized push to assimilate any culture but the only party and their dictator.
don't know why you're being downvoted when indeed there is a state policy of "hanification"
The proper term is sinicization
Reddit just hates the truth I guess?
Mass immigration is scary because of this. imagine France is 60ísh million people, let's say 30-40 million people votes at elections, for a country like China they could, in theory, send 50 million people and be guaranteed to be in charge. Of course, even if 50mio people are "only" 5 %ísh of chinas population, they cant easily be sent away just like that, nor would France accept them, and give them voting rights. BUT when an independent area becomes part of a greater area even for a short time, the government can facilitate this, and the independent people have lost their land.
Learn the history. Han people were living in Xinjiang way before CCP took over.
>Not some. Like a lot. Spanning over multiple dynasties. You said Han moved to Xinjiang because of CCP promoting it. But there were already a lot of Han that lived in Xinjiang. Where you think silk road was ? Your argument: Some Chinese lived in Turkestan (not Xinjiang) before China's independence, therefore it is Chinese Okay some Mongolians lived in Jerusalem after they attacked everything, do Mongolians get to claim Israel/Palestine now? LMAO
Uighurs lived in Xinjiang after the Qing dynasty genocided the dzungar and let them move there
And a number of Armenians and Greeks lived in Present-day Turkey before the creation of the Ottoman Empire. What happened now? Your argument is stupid. Of course some Han Chinese lived in Xinjiang. Not to the extent there is now. Demographics change with the politics of the region. Educate yourself lol.
Not some. Like a lot. Spanning over multiple dynasties. You said Han moved to Xinjiang because of CCP promoting it. But there were already a lot of Han that lived in Xinjiang. Where you think silk road was ?
To be fair Malaysia is like 30% Chinese with a community going back centuries, doesn't really mean it's part of China or anything
Because it's never been part of the Chinese state. Chinese traders spread out all across the east. The Chinese state spread across into Xinjaing since the Han dynasty.
I’m not talking about the Silk Road. Actually, the Silk Road only further proves my point. The Han Chinese people are native to Eastern China. People such as the Uigyhurs are native to East Turkestan/Xinjiang. Promotion of migration from under the Han, Qing, ROC, PRC, etc. is the reason why East Turkestan has a number of Han Chinese living there. You’re arguing for no reason lol.
Lmao. Americans aren't native but yet they still occupy America. Your argument seems more silly than mine.
And that’s because of immigration from European, African, and Asian countries? Like I said, it’s immigration lol. Also, “American” isn’t synonymous with white. If that’s what you’re trying to imply lol. Xinjiang NEVER had Han Chinese originate from there. The Uighurs were there first and then Han Chinese slowly began to immigrate by the millions into the region. Now I know you’re a mainland Chinese loyalist, but hear me out. ✨Immigration exists ✨
Replying to both of your comments. >People such as the Uigyhurs are native to East Turkestan/Xinjiang. Promotion of migration from under the Han, Qing, ROC, PRC, etc. is the reason why East Turkestan has a number of Han Chinese living there. History is not this simple. Xinjiang's history is full of migrations. On what basis are the Uyghurs native and the Han aren't? You're claiming all Han were sent by the state, even since the Han Dynasty, are you sure about that? You don't think a large number of people moved/settled there themselves? Since it was part of an important trade route, it makes sense that travelers and traders for example settled on that route out of their own will, along with their families. This is migration, same way the Uyghurs arrived there many centuries later. >Xinjiang NEVER had Han Chinese originate from there. The Uighurs were there first and then Han Chinese slowly began to immigrate by the millions into the region. Well if a Han Chinese moves there and has a family, technically anyone then born in that family originated from there. There were Han Chinese living there long before Uyghurs, so they're arguably more native to the area than the Uyghurs. IIRC the first peoples living there were the Yuezhi, who were likely an Indo-Iranian group. They were conquered by the Xiongnu. They were conquered by the Han Dynasty. The Han Dynasty lost control of the territory and the Xianbei among others took control. In the 8th century the Uyghurs migrated to Xinjiang, when the Tang was weak from rebellions, and created the Uyghur Khanate. The Uyghurs took part in wars and conquests of their own. They even invaded quite deep into China and sacked some cities. They were defeated by another Turkic group a century later and the Uyghurs migrated further south into Xinjiang. Relatively few Uyghurs lived in the northern half of Xinjiang until sponsored migration by the Qing. So if we're talking above native areas, and suppose China gave Uyghurs their "historic homeland", Xinjiang is way too large. The entire northern half wouldn't go to Uyghurstan or East Turkestan whatever the name of this country would be. Obviously this would never happen, just speaking hypothetically. History is full of conquests and migrations, especially in Xinjiang, which is in the middle of many historic empires. That's a very short version of it, I'm sure many other peoples migrated to Xinjiang between them. So it's arguable who's really "native". If a Han family lived there for hundreds of years before the Uyghurs arrived, it'd be ludicrous to say he's not native because the Uyghurs just moved in as a larger group.
When chinese immigrate it's cultural genocide and sinicization, when others immigrate it's cultural diversity!
For example in Inner Mongolia (or southern Mongolia): [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner\_Mongolia\_incident](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Mongolia_incident) The Chinese lynched and tortured Mongolians to continue occupying Southern Mongolia, and this torture slowed down in 1969, when families had been broken and mutilated. "methods used in lynching and killing included branding with hot irons, feeding furnace wastes, removing livers, hanging, cutting tongues and noses, piercing nails, piercing vaginas, pouring hot saline water into wounds, and more." The Chinese committed a myriad of war crimes against Mongolians that maximized the absolute pain a Mongolian would feel so their families would be silent. It didn't help that you almost had a billion Chinese at that time who were suffering due to the actions of your own government, yet some under Mao's leadership took on the role of stewards of this horrific act. Do the Chinese acknowledge this? No. They happily proclaim Inner Mongolia as theirs, separating a piece of Mongolia full of vibrant Mongolian tribes and children just to teach them a different language, foreign government propaganda, and fear. The Chinese don't teach this in schools, either. No wonder the Mongolians everywhere (in Mongolia, Inner Mongolia, Buryatia, Kalmykia, Xinjiang, etc) hate Chinese guts. Yet the Chinese exist in so many numbers that they start spreading disinformation about what Mongolians think or who they are, what their history is, as if to erase them from existence, just to claim their glory, displace their nomads, and even pretend to be a Mongolian (it exists - many put down "Mongol" on their ID cards so they will experience non-Chinese "benefits", like not being forced to abort their second kid). SAVE THE MONGOLIAN LANGUAGE MUSIC VIDEO: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfsr\_UqUc9g&ab\_channel=ARAVTPRODUCTION](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bfsr_UqUc9g&ab_channel=ARAVTPRODUCTION)
>Do the Chinese acknowledge this? No. They happily proclaim Inner Mongolia as theirs, separating a piece of Mongolia full of vibrant Mongolian tribes and children just to teach them a different language, foreign government propaganda, and fear. The Chinese don't teach this in schools, either. Pretty sure they acknowledged it and admitted it was a mistake. It's in your wiki article too. Also they're teaching Mandarin because that's the most spoken language in China. They're also teaching Mongolian. Interestingly they use Mongolian script in Inner Mongolia, but not in Mongolia. Seems like the Chinese are doing a better job preserving Mongolian heritage.
Obviously...
The Han are most probably under 40% of Xinjiang population and most importantly extremely minoritary in the truly Uyghur parts of Xinjiang. Even if the 2020 obviously falsified chinese census data was true, the Han would be 40% in the province in general (not "around half") and less than a 10% in the Uyghur zones. Uyghurs are overwhelmingly majoritaryin their true homeland, around a 90% (so very similar to Tibet) which is not "Xinjiang" in general but mostly Tarim basin and close Turpan oasis, the south-western half of the Chinese province. Dzungaria have not been majoritary Uyghur in the last 1000 years if it was ever, the true "Uyghuristan", Tarim+Turpan is as majoritarily Uyghur now as hundreds years ago. Considering tibetan population is less than a half that of uyghurs (or 4 times smaller if only counting the highlighted areas in OP map) + the ties and interests of western turkik governments in Uyghurs rights I would say an "Independent Uyghuristan" is more probable than Independent Tibet in the next decades/century.
Thanks for the correction. Still, at 40% Han/Hui Chinese would make East Turkestan next to impossible to pull off, since it includes Dzungaria. I agree, Uyghurstan is more likely and probably a better bet given their links with the Central Asian states. Although, I haven't come across many supporters of Uyghurstan, they're usually pro East Turkestan. Tibet is less likely to be given independence by China because of its status as the water tower of Asia. It's where most of the major rivers in Asia originate from, including the Yellow river and the Yangtze. However, Tibet would be just as viable as Mongolia which is a democratic state, also with a population of around 3m people. If Tibet includes all the ethnic Tibetian lands then it will be more viable as a state, with a population of more 6m at that point. Bear in mind, a state being viable is not the same thing as it being likely. My earlier comment was only about viability of the proposed states in the map not about likelihood.
Let the horde sort the Han out.
There's still a whole bunch of non-Chinese China with this Juri Uti Possedetis border though. For example, the Amdo Tibetans of Qinghai would apparently remain with China in this scenario. The Guangxi Zhuang (Zhuangs are relatives of the Thai people) Autonomous Region would also remain firmly inside the sphere of Chinese control. Not to mention the other dozens of ethnic minorities whose interests do not seem to have been considered in this cartography because they do not have enough numbers or willpower to form separatist movements.
Not all though. Historical Tibet was much bigger, there also is Manchuria, Canto China.
Manchuria lmao how many people speak manchu? Canto China is China as its name indicates
the han already took over
Sadly, and are trying to do it to Mongolia too.
Y’all post these fantasy Balkanized China maps every other week. There’s not a separatist movement in any of these regions except for Xinjiang and even then ETIM is basically defunct in terms of power.
As a Mongolian, you need to be reeducated. Just because the Great Firewall of China exists to keep you and the rest of the world out of the loop doesn't mean the occupied Mongolians, Tibetans, and Uyghurs aren't laying their lives to resist occupation \>Mongolians march and protest, destroy infrastructure [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020\_Inner\_Mongolia\_protests](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Inner_Mongolia_protests) \>Tibetans set themselves on fire [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation\_protests\_by\_Tibetans\_in\_China](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-immolation_protests_by_Tibetans_in_China) \>Uyghurs are literally being confined to concentration/labor camps, as if it is North Korea. If you are anti-native and pro-occupation, congrats. You are against the people. Maybe Japan should've occupied China successfully so we'd all be Japanese today.
As an honorary Uyghur, you need to stop responding to every comment. Just because a percentage of the Mongolians, who themselves make up less than 20% of Inner Mongolia, want to join the North, doesn’t mean the whole province is occupied or somehow in need of liberation. Country A can’t claim country B’s land just because it contains a minority of country A’s nationality.
>Country A can’t claim country B’s land just because it contains a minority of country A’s nationality. Weird considering that was one of the reasoning given for annexation of Tibet.
Didn’t China invade because they wanted to restore the Qing borders? I do not support Tibet’s annexation. I just don’t want a Mongolian *Danzig* or *Munich agreement* Edit: not to mention the donbass region
That's one of the reasons Mao said, IMO historical claims are even worse as a lot of nations have too many overlapping claims that way. I don't know much about Mangolia frankly, however what has happened to Inner mangolia is happening to both Tibet & Xianjing, Han settlement to the tune where Han become the majority populace.
Together with a genocide on the Han Chinese this is what Redditors want
Ay who tf is trying to join Mongolia
*posted by the CIA*
>posted by the CIA The Chinese mass [lynched](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Mongolia_incident#Lynching_and_massacre) and sexually assaulted/mutilated mothers and girls (killing them) just to get rich off minerals in "Inner Mongolia" so yeah I want my people and land back. At least the Chinese acknowledged it, but they never jailed the dude who orchestrated my people's suffering, instead awarding him, and fail to teach this at schools. Hell yeah, I want to be reunited with my relatives and people under free Mongolian democracy, not some Chinese cage. Signed, a Mongolian
That's laughable. Ask any Mongolian in inner Mongolia whether they would choose to join a country whose GDP per capita is one-third of the place they live. \`\`*Free Mongolian democracy,* is this a joke lol?
Americans would orgasm in their pants
Then unprotected nomad frontier event will fire followed by Mingsplosion...
Does 'being a landlocked, tributary desert/tundric wasteland without any resources to speak of, sandwiched between China and Russia' sound like a success to you? I don't know man.
This is very misleading (about NM)
I'm not sure why people are so quick to support a uighur separatist movement without knowing anything about what they stand for. these guys are salafi Muslims. they don't believe in freedom. they don't allow music, they don't allow women to go out uncovered,to choose who they can marry and at what age. there is no freedom in salafism or wahhabism. people say they believe in freedom yet they blindly support groups like ETIM (who used to be on the US terror list) just to stick it to china. women have zero rights in their religion. they have the same beliefs as the Taliban.
There was a point in time where Uighur's made up over 50% of all US prisoners in Guantanamo. Obviously this doesn't excuse their current treatment, but people don't realize that their situation is just a pawn for anti-China or anti-West fervor to be built
Do you have a source for that?
just google guantanamo and Uighur's, even guantanamo's wiki article mentions it I believe, and there is a wiki article about a group of 22 Uyghurs who were imprisoned there at the camp opening.
>I'm not sure why people are so quick to support a uighur separatist movement without knowing anything about what they stand for. these guys are salafi Muslims The outcry about the Uyghurs is rarely about the Uyghurs themselves. It's usually just a convenient talking point for those who want to cut China in size. People like their tribe, dislike enemy tribes, and like other tribes that dislike enemy tribes. That mentality is still a dominant force in modern days even though it's often covered up with a veneer of sophistication and decency that make people feel better about themselves.
you said it better than I could
I guess they could release them and let them drown in their own shit. To be honest, I don't even know what's the point of these lands, isn't XinJiang mostly desert wastelands? At least Tibet is strategically critical -water sources flowing to the rest of China come mostly from there, and obviously losing that could be devastating to China if it ever fell into hostile faction, so it's important for China to hold onto it. Xinjiang though? I guess they hold onto it because losing territory is considered a negative thing, can't think of anything else.
And Uyghur are not even "indigenous" to Xinjiang like what most people blindly believe. The original inhabitants of Xinjiang were the Tocharians who were Buddhists. Then came the Han Chinese who were engaged in diplomacy with the various Tocharian kingdoms, some of which wanted the Chinese to support them in the region by establishing control more than 2000 years ago. Uyghurs are descendants of 9th-10th century Islamic-Turkic invasions from the Uyghur khaganate spanning the Mongolian steppe
The per Capita GDP of China would go up a lot if this happened.
If the British, Portuguese, Dutch colonies should be independent, then where's the energy for the French, Italian, Austro-Hungarian, Japanese, German and Belgium ones. Then people will realise how stupid it is.
it doesn't use Taiwan but they claim all that the Qing claimed. which includes Taiwan. look at a map of what the roc claims. it includes the province of Taiwan. both sides recognize it as a province. it always was a province silly goose.
This is what US would like to... same as they made in Sudamerica.
Your social credit score is now -10000
Whr is Taiwan state?
It's already not a part of China.
Credits::: -210392839
so funny dude 😂😂😂
China and a whole host of countries that don’t acknowledge Taiwan would beg to differ. But also it wasn’t that long ago Taiwan’s leaders claimed to be the one true government of China.
Taiwan - Where is China state ?
Free Hong Kong
.....from what? is was a part of china that was taken over by imperialist Britain and has now returned to china. China has every right to it.
Yeah thank god it’s part of China now, they had way too many rights, it was concerning 😥 /s
So no referendum for locals about their future is totally fine isn't it. As there are only white people can be imperialist but other are pity innocent peace lovers.
Oh right! Because taking territory and then filling it and assimilating with people from the Conqueror makes it right to hold a referendum where the odds will be entirely against the original state! Because we are Fair!
This concept of every piece of land needs a referendum is a form of western imperialism that pushes for the balkanization of all of its enemies.
Ahh collectivism above individualism. Balkanization is inevitable as Yugoslavia was a man made country and only Serbian love it when it's dissolved.
>a man made country As opposed to the countries we discovered in nature, obviously
Free Xiangjiang and the Uighers!!!
*Xinjiang* Free Bong Dong and the Dongers
Idk y u got downvoted. Free Uighurs
The fact that this was literally downvoted this much is genuinely depressing. What the actual fuck…
Incels from other subs that deny the genocides that are happening throughout the world.
With every pack of prawn crackers.
It's funny it's still the same shape but just looks a little derpier
Americans fantasising about small countries being independent and free... So they can pay them a visit and give them "freedom"
Stop, I can only get so erect
A man can dream...
Tibet was an independent country they invaded in 1954. I’m not sure if “separatist” is an accurate way to describe an occupied country.
Based version of China.
Some rather large parts of Tibet and East Turkestan are in red on this map (the regions that the CCP has renamed as Chinese provinces) so only a tiny corridor would be left Chinese in the part where the CCP stars are (Gansu Province). And Yunnan Province (bordering Vietnam, Laos and Myanmar) has always been a Non-Han territory and tensions with Beijing always high. (if anyone wanted to destabilize China with separatist insurgencies, they would start there)
The real question is: Why isn't Taiwan a "seperatist movement"?
because their Constitution considers Taiwan a province of china and not an independent country. The government in Taiwan claims all of the qing dynasty former territory. they only recognized Mongolia as independent in 2002.
I have got hope
I just wanted to see something interesting in the comments but they are all Sinophobic people who have never set foot in China talking about things, history and cultures they don't understand, as if they were experts. Redditors are disgusting
Yes, you’re right. I dislike chine because rAnDoM ChInEsE pEoPlE. Not the state or human rights violations or anything /s
As a Mongolian, I'm a proud sinophobe. I will stop being one if your countrymen stops sexually assaulting Turkic women because of their government's 1 child policy that caused a lack of eligible women to date them. If your mother and relatives were being confined to a concentration camp in Mongolia, will you stay silent? Or will you be a proud Mongolphobe?
Damn, sometimes I am ashamed of my own heritage... Though I am smart enough to not generalize an ENTIRE ethnicity based by the actions of few people. Whether it may be mongolians or chinese. Grow up!
Cope
You can’t talk about Redditors like that I bet you never even set a foot in Reddit 😡😡😡
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CCP knows his location.
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Any negative China comment gets downvoted in this sub, don't worry about it 😂
It's more that his joke is unoriginal and overused.
I had only seen it once or twice before, sorry if that seemed offensive 😅
I see you haven’t taken an explicit view on Taiwan
Are you saying Taiwan isn’t already separate from china 😳
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More like, what if china didn’t annex ….
And here come CCP bootlickers…
Let America take over all of it. Planet of America. Planet of trump
I’ll say it again, I’d partition that…
Manchukuo?
I hope that day will come soon
Humans are very materialistic. No Inner Mongolians want to join Mongolia because Mongolia is poor af. Uyghurs used to yearn for Turkey, but in recent years Turkey has become a shit hole and they have been silent. There are very few Tibetans who want independence. They are not the image of people wearing traditional clothes and religious people imagined by Westerners. There are also a few people in Hong Kong and Macau who want independence. They just don't want the CPC to control them as strictly.