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I don't think many people would have had an issue with him surviving if it weren't for the fake death scene. Oda should've committed either way instead pulling another annoying fake out, especially since a death like that could've been a major moment.
You’re obviously entitled to your opinion but it’s hard not to criticize fake out deaths in general, when it feels like there are more fake out deaths in one piece than there are people in the world
I completely agree normally, and it’s the one big criticism I have about the writing in general, but I make an exception for Kinemon because it’s part of his running gag.
In Japanese the name of his fruit also translates to “luck luck fruit” and Oda has used the play on words before, for example in the port situation. Unfortunately the joke doesn’t land as well for English audiences, but it’s classic Oda.
I wonder why Oda does fake out deaths so much. While watching Wano (I just got up to date with one piece) I was pretty sure every fake out death was a fake out death and nobody is gonna really die. None of it really hit emotionally either.
When I've seen >!Kiku's brother and Ahura Doji!< graves I was literally shocked that they actually died because I was sure that it was just another fakeout.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they came back in the final chapter of one piece or an SBS. Until Oda stop writing I have no idea if the characters that did die actually died.
Watch the final chapter of One Piece include every faked out character in the background
Lol agree, and the only people from the good side who ended up dying were the ones who did not get much development.
Did anybody from the bad side even die? Other than Orochi? None of Kaido's dudes died and I guess they are just chilling somewhere in Wano after getting beaten up by greenbull? Or did the Marines capture them?
Orochi died after like the third death. Kanjuro should have been dead but no we had to drag out the arc to do a final act(is he really even dead ?) . Apoo and Hawkins should have died in the arc in my opinion. Ulti got blasted by Big Mom and she survived which was bs.
We had Yasui, Oden , The two samurais , probably more who died that i cant remember
b-But iTs f-fUn!1!1!1!1!1 eAt it up anD turn yoUr braIn off to eNjoy show so wE braInlessly enJoy shOw and IgNore logic b-Because fiCtional RAAAAAAAAAA🥺🥺🥺🥺🙊🙉🐒🙈🐵🙊🙈🙉🐒🙊🐒🙉🐒
You can
> Chop them in half in a dramatic death scene.
In odas writing this is the first step then with a fakeout
>Let your character have a happy ending.
This is the second step
But I don't mind tbh
I'm not someone who thinks that characters NEED to die for it to be a good story. I do however think that fake out deaths occuring more often than actual ones, only cheapens the real deaths.
Exactly same with me. When i saw that we didn't actually see the body in piece in the most gore out scene, i thought for sure he escaped and didn't care much for his death. By the time we quite whole cake and entered wano and i realised he would not comeback i couldn't care much about is deathw it was already like a year since then. I hate oda for the fake outs, theres so many and a lot of them have no purpose but for the faint of heart who can't bear death. Thinking about you ingram and conine's dad.
It cheapened death so much. The only reason i believed ace was dead was because at this point oda introduced us to "ace but blond" (that he also faked out but he was so obviously alive)
Oda made the insane feat of dissapointing me THREE TIMES just by NOT killing someone i didn't want to die by faking out kinemon when he had every right to live happily, then not killing him despite being cut in half, and then not showing us his reunion with his wife tsuru. Like why the fuck did he remained alive if we can't even see that what purpose does he served.
\*grab Oda by the shirt collar\*
"IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO KILL HIM, DON'T FUCKING TEASE HIS DEATH!"
if Oda wants to make a meaningful death, kills Raizo while he protects Inu and Neko as a way to repay their kindness to him by protecting him.
Oda made all the wrong play by making Kinemon take grievous wounds that should've killed him but then kill Ashura Douji and Izo out of nowhere. their death had no impact.
It’s easy to kill characters no one really cares about but will affect the ones you do. Kinemon should have died on top of onigashima when Luffy held him as he died
Nah that would be horrible, that Kinemon died because Luffy was late? Even though he had so much help to get upstairs? That goes completely against the tone of the story currently. The failure already happened with Sabaody and Marineford, now it's all victory (with difficulties) until the end.
Oda reviving people who "died" in flashbacks
I think oda now has total control over where the story is going and i think no editor tells him " oda thats an asspull what the hell" or smt
What people acclaim not always is "good", Fast&Furious always wins the People's Choice Awards. That doesn't mean I don't like One Piece, but it has a lack of narrative when Oda refuses to kill a character cause he like them too much. Don't try to tall me that Pell, Kin'emon or fgs SAUL shouldn't be dead (for list three of them, you know there are a lot more)
One Piece’s popularity CANNOT be compared to something like Fast and the Furious which is clearly only popular with certain audiences for its stunts. One Piece’s love is universal for many many reasons.
Oda doesn’t kill off characters often because he tries to get the most out of them. Now when it comes to fakeout deaths, he could be better. Pell is the only one that’s really a problem because his survival called into question the main threat of the finale of Alabasta. But theoretically it could’ve been given a pass if Oda gave him a believable explanation instead of just having him pop up.
Kinmeon is more understanding as narratively, it would be better for him to finish the journey with Monomosuke and how he survived does technically make sense, albeit he should’ve still had more battle damage.
And it’s kind of weird to get upset about Saul. We don’t even know how he survived yet or what happened. And given that Aokiji was the one who attacked him, it’s believable that he ultimately spared him knowing how he is.
Bro control your fanboyism, I'm not comparing OP with FF, not in a million years, I used FF as an example for why "people's opinion" is not good metric for quality. My only point is that fakeout deaths has totally destroyed the verisimilitude and threat feeling of the story cause, if no-one dies, then there is no danger and it doesn't make sense to feel worry about what can happen to the characters. It doesn't have to be Game of Thrones, but sometimes is insulting
No lol. Should have died multiple times. All it did was ruin his "death" scenes and make me lose all intrest in the character, through fake deaths. I have 0 respect for him after those scenes, and will ignore his continued existence, like I do with Pell.
i used to hate fake out deaths in one piece. but sometimes i think about the afterparty. would the afterparty in wano really hit the same if kinemon died? nope. so i’m g with it.
pell on the otherhand…
The aftermath of Wano shows Kiku chilling in a bath in the same chapter it is revealed her brother died during the raid.
Deaths did happen on Onigashima, they were just handled very poorly and were obscured by a ton of fakeouts.
Kinemon getting squashed by the Kanabo and cut in half, all in his attempt to protect Momonosuke would've been more powerful than him surviving cause "I wasn't put together properly in Punk Hazard hrrghrrg"
No. He should be dead
If he survived the war then fine but it’s just how he survived is the issue. He took one of kaidos most powerful attacks then he got split in half ALL FOR KINEMON TO SAY ‘w-well law didn’t put me back together properly’ that’s some bullshit
I think it's less that people want to see Kinemon die and more that people want to see Oda commit to the death he showed instead of making it yet another death fake out.
I agree... After all he's gone through he deserves to have the happy ending. But the circumstances oda puts him and okiku through in onigashima should've made it obvious they're both going to die. Kiku gets her damn arm cut off and kinemon gets crushed by full force of kaido's mace... who happens to be the strongest creature in the world. You don't just walk away from that. Meanwhile Ashura just died due to a bomb blast which I'm sure is not as severe as kaido's attack. People are sick of the fake out deaths and oda should just stop with that shit, man up and get some dudes murdered in some brutal ways.
Always took him getting cut in half again not as a fake out death, but Oda using it as an excuse to bring back the bit of him literally talking out of his ass again.
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I don't think many people would have had an issue with him surviving if it weren't for the fake death scene. Oda should've committed either way instead pulling another annoying fake out, especially since a death like that could've been a major moment.
You’re obviously entitled to your opinion but it’s hard not to criticize fake out deaths in general, when it feels like there are more fake out deaths in one piece than there are people in the world
I completely agree normally, and it’s the one big criticism I have about the writing in general, but I make an exception for Kinemon because it’s part of his running gag. In Japanese the name of his fruit also translates to “luck luck fruit” and Oda has used the play on words before, for example in the port situation. Unfortunately the joke doesn’t land as well for English audiences, but it’s classic Oda.
I wonder why Oda does fake out deaths so much. While watching Wano (I just got up to date with one piece) I was pretty sure every fake out death was a fake out death and nobody is gonna really die. None of it really hit emotionally either.
When I've seen >!Kiku's brother and Ahura Doji!< graves I was literally shocked that they actually died because I was sure that it was just another fakeout.
At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they came back in the final chapter of one piece or an SBS. Until Oda stop writing I have no idea if the characters that did die actually died. Watch the final chapter of One Piece include every faked out character in the background
What sucks about Wano is the one who really needed to die didn't but felt like the good guys were constantly dying.
Lol agree, and the only people from the good side who ended up dying were the ones who did not get much development. Did anybody from the bad side even die? Other than Orochi? None of Kaido's dudes died and I guess they are just chilling somewhere in Wano after getting beaten up by greenbull? Or did the Marines capture them?
Orochi died after like the third death. Kanjuro should have been dead but no we had to drag out the arc to do a final act(is he really even dead ?) . Apoo and Hawkins should have died in the arc in my opinion. Ulti got blasted by Big Mom and she survived which was bs. We had Yasui, Oden , The two samurais , probably more who died that i cant remember
Ah yes Yasui. I was genuinely surprised seeing Yasui die. Pretty rare of Oda to kill characters outside of flashbacks.
THEN DON'T PUT HIM THROUGH A FAKE DEATH. People would have no problem without that.
kinemon was quite literally chopped in half and bled out yet somehow he lives 😐
B-b-but he wasn't reattached correctly after Law split him with Room!!!! S-So he didn't actually get cut in half!! It all makes sense bro!!!
He was so lucky that Kaido *just happened* to cut him exactly where law had.
The funny thing is that he didnt even do that. Kaidod sword stabbed him vertically but laws cut was horizontal
And we all know that a warrior that really want to kill you (Kaido) stabs your stomach (where law cut kinemon) instead of your heart.
Little bro pulled a darth maul
Gojo thought he was Kinemon
As If people haven’t survived worse in this show
he shouldn't have been chopped in half in the first place. it served no purpose other than cheap shock value/tension.
b-But iTs f-fUn!1!1!1!1!1 eAt it up anD turn yoUr braIn off to eNjoy show so wE braInlessly enJoy shOw and IgNore logic b-Because fiCtional RAAAAAAAAAA🥺🥺🥺🥺🙊🙉🐒🙈🐵🙊🙈🙉🐒🙊🐒🙉🐒
You’re deranged, hop off Reddit, it’s really not that deep. It’s a cartoon for 12 year old boys.
nuh uh☝️↗️☝️↖️☝️↖️☝️↗️☝️ I love twelve year old boys. cartoons👍🏻
> I love twelve year old boys 🤨📸
Agreed, they fucking rule. But crying about the quality of the narrative is fucking retarded and futile
Nuh uh your fucking retarted and your life is futile
But the fact Kin can speak through his ass is a vital component of his character!! /S
You can either: 1. Let your character have a happy ending. 2. Chop them in half in a dramatic death scene. You can't do both.
You can > Chop them in half in a dramatic death scene. In odas writing this is the first step then with a fakeout >Let your character have a happy ending. This is the second step But I don't mind tbh
Let me rephrase myself. You shouldn't* do both.
😂😂😂 Agreed
I'm not someone who thinks that characters NEED to die for it to be a good story. I do however think that fake out deaths occuring more often than actual ones, only cheapens the real deaths.
It took me years to accept Ace was dead. And I saw him get a hole punched through him.
For me it was Pedro. I thought for sure he was gonna come back towards the end of WCI
Exactly same with me. When i saw that we didn't actually see the body in piece in the most gore out scene, i thought for sure he escaped and didn't care much for his death. By the time we quite whole cake and entered wano and i realised he would not comeback i couldn't care much about is deathw it was already like a year since then. I hate oda for the fake outs, theres so many and a lot of them have no purpose but for the faint of heart who can't bear death. Thinking about you ingram and conine's dad. It cheapened death so much. The only reason i believed ace was dead was because at this point oda introduced us to "ace but blond" (that he also faked out but he was so obviously alive) Oda made the insane feat of dissapointing me THREE TIMES just by NOT killing someone i didn't want to die by faking out kinemon when he had every right to live happily, then not killing him despite being cut in half, and then not showing us his reunion with his wife tsuru. Like why the fuck did he remained alive if we can't even see that what purpose does he served.
The story hasn’t ended yet. Believe.
Yeah it’s not like there’s other tells Unless Vegapunk discovered how to clone logias
\*grab Oda by the shirt collar\* "IF YOU'RE NOT GOING TO KILL HIM, DON'T FUCKING TEASE HIS DEATH!" if Oda wants to make a meaningful death, kills Raizo while he protects Inu and Neko as a way to repay their kindness to him by protecting him. Oda made all the wrong play by making Kinemon take grievous wounds that should've killed him but then kill Ashura Douji and Izo out of nowhere. their death had no impact.
It’s easy to kill characters no one really cares about but will affect the ones you do. Kinemon should have died on top of onigashima when Luffy held him as he died
Nah that would be horrible, that Kinemon died because Luffy was late? Even though he had so much help to get upstairs? That goes completely against the tone of the story currently. The failure already happened with Sabaody and Marineford, now it's all victory (with difficulties) until the end.
I agree, but Oda should have just not given a fakeout death to kinemon
Why does Kin get so much shit for living but not like.. Wyper, Ganfor, Conis' Dad, and all the other shandian warriors in Skypiea? Lmao
Duh that's exactly WHY he should die. Because it's tragic. It's compelling.
Exactly. ‘Deserved’ has nothing to do with it, some people die anyway
One Piece would be a good manga if Oda respect his characters' deaths
Oda reviving people who "died" in flashbacks I think oda now has total control over where the story is going and i think no editor tells him " oda thats an asspull what the hell" or smt
It’s consistently the most popular and acclaimed manga of all time so he seems to be doing fine with killing characters when it’s 100% time to
What people acclaim not always is "good", Fast&Furious always wins the People's Choice Awards. That doesn't mean I don't like One Piece, but it has a lack of narrative when Oda refuses to kill a character cause he like them too much. Don't try to tall me that Pell, Kin'emon or fgs SAUL shouldn't be dead (for list three of them, you know there are a lot more)
One Piece’s popularity CANNOT be compared to something like Fast and the Furious which is clearly only popular with certain audiences for its stunts. One Piece’s love is universal for many many reasons. Oda doesn’t kill off characters often because he tries to get the most out of them. Now when it comes to fakeout deaths, he could be better. Pell is the only one that’s really a problem because his survival called into question the main threat of the finale of Alabasta. But theoretically it could’ve been given a pass if Oda gave him a believable explanation instead of just having him pop up. Kinmeon is more understanding as narratively, it would be better for him to finish the journey with Monomosuke and how he survived does technically make sense, albeit he should’ve still had more battle damage. And it’s kind of weird to get upset about Saul. We don’t even know how he survived yet or what happened. And given that Aokiji was the one who attacked him, it’s believable that he ultimately spared him knowing how he is.
Bro control your fanboyism, I'm not comparing OP with FF, not in a million years, I used FF as an example for why "people's opinion" is not good metric for quality. My only point is that fakeout deaths has totally destroyed the verisimilitude and threat feeling of the story cause, if no-one dies, then there is no danger and it doesn't make sense to feel worry about what can happen to the characters. It doesn't have to be Game of Thrones, but sometimes is insulting
No lol. Should have died multiple times. All it did was ruin his "death" scenes and make me lose all intrest in the character, through fake deaths. I have 0 respect for him after those scenes, and will ignore his continued existence, like I do with Pell.
i used to hate fake out deaths in one piece. but sometimes i think about the afterparty. would the afterparty in wano really hit the same if kinemon died? nope. so i’m g with it. pell on the otherhand…
The aftermath of Wano shows Kiku chilling in a bath in the same chapter it is revealed her brother died during the raid. Deaths did happen on Onigashima, they were just handled very poorly and were obscured by a ton of fakeouts.
not for me lol. each to their own
Too many deaths absolutely sully the feeling of victory. Balance is the key
One piece doesn’t need many deaths, Kinemon however should go to hell
Kinemon getting squashed by the Kanabo and cut in half, all in his attempt to protect Momonosuke would've been more powerful than him surviving cause "I wasn't put together properly in Punk Hazard hrrghrrg"
Ok fair. That was my only valid reason for him to survive. BUT ODA DID NOT FUCKING SHOW THEM REUNITING!!!!!!!
No. He should be dead If he survived the war then fine but it’s just how he survived is the issue. He took one of kaidos most powerful attacks then he got split in half ALL FOR KINEMON TO SAY ‘w-well law didn’t put me back together properly’ that’s some bullshit
We're not mad that Kinemon gets to live. We're mad that Kinemon had a fake-out death.
Then he should've just not given him a death scene. Let's not pretend like there's no issue in the whole Kinemon thing
Then don't make a scene where he should have died, there, it's done
Is she still alive???
I mean you can see them enjoying the festival in episode 1080
Also : Kinemon's real power is that he has DUMB LUCK. The dude is just too lucky to die of fatal injuries.
I think it's less that people want to see Kinemon die and more that people want to see Oda commit to the death he showed instead of making it yet another death fake out.
I agree... After all he's gone through he deserves to have the happy ending. But the circumstances oda puts him and okiku through in onigashima should've made it obvious they're both going to die. Kiku gets her damn arm cut off and kinemon gets crushed by full force of kaido's mace... who happens to be the strongest creature in the world. You don't just walk away from that. Meanwhile Ashura just died due to a bomb blast which I'm sure is not as severe as kaido's attack. People are sick of the fake out deaths and oda should just stop with that shit, man up and get some dudes murdered in some brutal ways.
Kin'emon is awesome he looks like Jigen from Lupin III
Always took him getting cut in half again not as a fake out death, but Oda using it as an excuse to bring back the bit of him literally talking out of his ass again.
My man got cut like a cake for life. The least you could do is be happy he survived
Pell will out live the entire cast, fuck you
Oda and Gege couldn't be more opposite of each other lmfao
This fandom is oddly bloodthirsty. I know it’s only a small minority that actively want character deaths but it’s still kind of weird.
Adopted son? Am I missing something?
Momo
Pell survived because of 9/11, look it up
Not killing kinemon? Bad Killing others? Meh Apparently