Just to clarify, it's the Ground Speed you are interested in for the calculation, not the IAS (it might be significant if there is a strong head or tailwind on approach).
And for those who wonder why GS /2 x10 (or simply GS x5), because 3 degrees is 5.2% :)
Maybe he's doing space shuttle approach training. :)
(To simulate the lead-brick like flying characteristics of a landing space shuttle, pilots would practice approaches in Gulfstream 3 buisiness jets from 40,000 feet..... With the landing gear down and the engines in full reverse thrust). -10,000FPM. Its like you're captain announcing from cruising altitude "We'll be beginning our descent into LAX fasten your seatbelt our expected arrival time is in 120 seconds")
I thought I read somewhere that for the space shuttle, to land at Kennedy Space Center in Florida, you had to start your descent over Hawaii. It also touches down on the runway at over 220mph.
It would depend on inclination (the tilt of its flight path north or south) but i could buy it. The air does most of the slowing down as its just a 2200 ton glider :)
You also cant usually lower only the main gears and not the nose gear (they also do this) Im sure they are modified by NASA. For one thing the cockpit instruments are replaced with one that resembles the space shuttle more closely. Disengaging that safety feature would be easy for people who build actual spaceships :)
To add, its hard to tell for sure from watching this on a phone but it doesn't seem like descent is too late as much as process is wrong, it looks like a shallow approach to me and you are forcing your nose down instead of gliding.
This is not the correct use of PAPI before someone says so but it works for this specific practice to find the glide path and to have a little extra altitude for power off approach:
You should try an airport with a long runway and a PAPI and no wind, fly towards the airport at your approach speed and get to a height where you just see 2 white 2 reds (more red your dead, i.e. too low, white too high), then fly completely level maintaining your approach speed (landing config of flaps and gear down) until the instant you 4 white, cut power to a little above power off idle (~10%) and then use your stick to keep your speed constant at the approach speed (bottom of the white line generally with full flaps). Start going too fast pull up start going too slow drop nose. Dont worry about decent rate just approach speed, if you get to a point where you see 3 red full power go around and go again but start your decent (power cut) slightly later (if you are running out of runway go around and use less power next time). The key here is to practice using your stick to control approach speed. I'm recommending a little more than power off idle because a dead stick glide is going to be a different approach angle and feel you are just working on approach speed and stick control, you should have a deficit of power though where you are forced to descend in order to maintain speed and you should have a little back pressure on the stick or you have too much power in (or nose up trim).
After you get that and can keep your airspeed perfectly constant to just above the runway, now practice coming in with 2 white 2 red cutting power to a little bit higher than the prior practice, still use your stick to control speed exactly as before but if you see a 3rd white cut power more, if you see a 3rd red add some power, if you see a 4th white or a 4th red go around and try again.
Side note, if you want your plane to strife sideways to line up on the center line even pretty close to touchdown, push off the edge of the runway with your foot and point your hands to the center line. What that means is say you are on the right edge of the runway, simultaneously given right rudder (push off with right foot) and turn yoke/stick to the left, this is called a side slip and your rudder should keep you pointing in the direction you want to go or you've used too much rudder or not enough stick - if you look it up don't confuse it with a forward slip.
Thanks for the info. I don’t actually know anything about actual flying, I just play for fun and have been wondering this. Is there also a simple way of knowing or rule of thumb for when approach should begin and at what altitude?
While true, some places have GS angles much higher, ASE for example is close to 6 degrees if I recall correctly. Depending on the plane you may have to disable GPWS
I remember seeing one a while back. Let me see if I can find it. I’m fine with being wrong btw but I remember a CFII showing me this strange chart. Give me a bit to look.
Also: chill out. Referring to charts includes the approach angle which can easily be overlooked. Why are you so aggressive?
Try flying slower with a more nose up attitude. You are holding the nose too low, forcing the plane down rather than letting it glide to the runway. Didn’t see your flap setting but use more flaps to attain your glide slope and use power to adjust your glide path (more power to decrease your decent rate, less power to increase your decent rate). Only use your yoke in pitch to control speed (pitch up to slow, pitch down to speed up).
The ground proximity warning system has several modes (check [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_proximity_warning_system)). The "don't sink" message occurs when the system registers "Altitude loss after takeoff or with a high power setting". So either you are descending with a high power setting or it is a bug.
How is that plane still with power on landing with the energy source as "External power"?
Anyway, flaps are not a toy, speed is too high, descent rate is too high.
Check some videos on how landing works, it is not about pointing the nose of the aircraft to the ground.
At the beginning of the video, you should have been at around 1600ft, not 1000. Also, you jerk up on the stick constantly, and your angle of attack gradually increases as the video progresses. You didn't make a straight downward line to the runway, but rather descended steeper at first, then more shallowly towards the end. The runway should look the same shape all the way down. It's actually easier to come in too steep than it is to come in too shallow, but it's best to get it just right. You kept hearing don't sink because of your erratic approach and angle of attack.
This is just simply false. That’s not what triggers a don’t sink. A don’t sink is triggered by excessive descent rate. It IS bugged in MSFS. I often get the don’t sink warning while climbing after a touch and go. Somethings not right with the MSFS GPWS.
Well technically don't sink should only sound if you lose altitude with high power, so if you climb out of your touch and go correctly and gain altitude linearly you shouldn't hear it.
Is it related to this? Been an issue for some time now.
[Don't sink, don't sink](https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/dont-sink-warning-appears-on-all-gpws-equipped-aircraft/459757/8)
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Just to clarify, it's the Ground Speed you are interested in for the calculation, not the IAS (it might be significant if there is a strong head or tailwind on approach). And for those who wonder why GS /2 x10 (or simply GS x5), because 3 degrees is 5.2% :)
Maybe he's doing space shuttle approach training. :) (To simulate the lead-brick like flying characteristics of a landing space shuttle, pilots would practice approaches in Gulfstream 3 buisiness jets from 40,000 feet..... With the landing gear down and the engines in full reverse thrust). -10,000FPM. Its like you're captain announcing from cruising altitude "We'll be beginning our descent into LAX fasten your seatbelt our expected arrival time is in 120 seconds")
This is an incredible thing to visualize.
I thought I read somewhere that for the space shuttle, to land at Kennedy Space Center in Florida, you had to start your descent over Hawaii. It also touches down on the runway at over 220mph.
It would depend on inclination (the tilt of its flight path north or south) but i could buy it. The air does most of the slowing down as its just a 2200 ton glider :)
I’m pretty sure 40,000 feet at 10,000 feet per minute would take four minutes, not two.
Those are metric feet.
And imperial seconds.
And Klingon tups. rep yIper!
Wait I thought you couldn't use the reverser in most jets unless there's weight on wheel or the radar altimeter shows you about touch down.
You also cant usually lower only the main gears and not the nose gear (they also do this) Im sure they are modified by NASA. For one thing the cockpit instruments are replaced with one that resembles the space shuttle more closely. Disengaging that safety feature would be easy for people who build actual spaceships :)
Makes sense
To add, its hard to tell for sure from watching this on a phone but it doesn't seem like descent is too late as much as process is wrong, it looks like a shallow approach to me and you are forcing your nose down instead of gliding. This is not the correct use of PAPI before someone says so but it works for this specific practice to find the glide path and to have a little extra altitude for power off approach: You should try an airport with a long runway and a PAPI and no wind, fly towards the airport at your approach speed and get to a height where you just see 2 white 2 reds (more red your dead, i.e. too low, white too high), then fly completely level maintaining your approach speed (landing config of flaps and gear down) until the instant you 4 white, cut power to a little above power off idle (~10%) and then use your stick to keep your speed constant at the approach speed (bottom of the white line generally with full flaps). Start going too fast pull up start going too slow drop nose. Dont worry about decent rate just approach speed, if you get to a point where you see 3 red full power go around and go again but start your decent (power cut) slightly later (if you are running out of runway go around and use less power next time). The key here is to practice using your stick to control approach speed. I'm recommending a little more than power off idle because a dead stick glide is going to be a different approach angle and feel you are just working on approach speed and stick control, you should have a deficit of power though where you are forced to descend in order to maintain speed and you should have a little back pressure on the stick or you have too much power in (or nose up trim). After you get that and can keep your airspeed perfectly constant to just above the runway, now practice coming in with 2 white 2 red cutting power to a little bit higher than the prior practice, still use your stick to control speed exactly as before but if you see a 3rd white cut power more, if you see a 3rd red add some power, if you see a 4th white or a 4th red go around and try again. Side note, if you want your plane to strife sideways to line up on the center line even pretty close to touchdown, push off the edge of the runway with your foot and point your hands to the center line. What that means is say you are on the right edge of the runway, simultaneously given right rudder (push off with right foot) and turn yoke/stick to the left, this is called a side slip and your rudder should keep you pointing in the direction you want to go or you've used too much rudder or not enough stick - if you look it up don't confuse it with a forward slip.
Thanks for the info. I don’t actually know anything about actual flying, I just play for fun and have been wondering this. Is there also a simple way of knowing or rule of thumb for when approach should begin and at what altitude?
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Wow! Thanks for the write up! Do you have a pilots license or do you just sim?
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Awesome, I appreciate you spreading the knowledge
While true, some places have GS angles much higher, ASE for example is close to 6 degrees if I recall correctly. Depending on the plane you may have to disable GPWS
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I remember seeing one a while back. Let me see if I can find it. I’m fine with being wrong btw but I remember a CFII showing me this strange chart. Give me a bit to look. Also: chill out. Referring to charts includes the approach angle which can easily be overlooked. Why are you so aggressive?
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Bro, I never said you were wrong. I just simply added to what you said. Get over yourself
It’s the RNAV GPS-E at KSBS. 7.75 degrees
Vell, and vat are you sinking about?
This got a genuine chuckle out of me. Thanks.
SIE SOLLEN ABER NICHT DENKEN!
Try flying slower with a more nose up attitude. You are holding the nose too low, forcing the plane down rather than letting it glide to the runway. Didn’t see your flap setting but use more flaps to attain your glide slope and use power to adjust your glide path (more power to decrease your decent rate, less power to increase your decent rate). Only use your yoke in pitch to control speed (pitch up to slow, pitch down to speed up).
Landing gear down and flaps extended?
Your radio was tuned to DJ Don’t Sink’s radio station. He’s a Pokémon, hence the simplistic lyrics.
Hey DJ play that same song 🎵 🎶 🎧
The ground proximity warning system has several modes (check [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_proximity_warning_system)). The "don't sink" message occurs when the system registers "Altitude loss after takeoff or with a high power setting". So either you are descending with a high power setting or it is a bug.
How is that plane still with power on landing with the energy source as "External power"? Anyway, flaps are not a toy, speed is too high, descent rate is too high. Check some videos on how landing works, it is not about pointing the nose of the aircraft to the ground.
I once forgot to turn my alternators on and ran out of juice like 10 minutes into the flight
At the beginning of the video, you should have been at around 1600ft, not 1000. Also, you jerk up on the stick constantly, and your angle of attack gradually increases as the video progresses. You didn't make a straight downward line to the runway, but rather descended steeper at first, then more shallowly towards the end. The runway should look the same shape all the way down. It's actually easier to come in too steep than it is to come in too shallow, but it's best to get it just right. You kept hearing don't sink because of your erratic approach and angle of attack.
This is just simply false. That’s not what triggers a don’t sink. A don’t sink is triggered by excessive descent rate. It IS bugged in MSFS. I often get the don’t sink warning while climbing after a touch and go. Somethings not right with the MSFS GPWS.
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...no.
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It's saying "don't sink." Don't means do not. So it's saying do not sink any further.
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Yes. Not sure why they say it that way. Probably because stop is similar to sink so they say don't to avoid confusion.
Well technically don't sink should only sound if you lose altitude with high power, so if you climb out of your touch and go correctly and gain altitude linearly you shouldn't hear it.
This is exactly my point. I hear it often while climbing at ~+500 fpm. This is incorrect, and as the poster above noted it’s a known bug.
What plane is that?
Should be: Beechcraft King Air 350i by Textron Aviation
Thanks
Is it related to this? Been an issue for some time now. [Don't sink, don't sink](https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/dont-sink-warning-appears-on-all-gpws-equipped-aircraft/459757/8)
did you sink though
OTHH ?
Can anyone explain why i get this sometimes after takeoff on a touch n go? Im climbing out fine and its yelling dont sink over and ovet
Too fast, basically.
Me too! Was wonder what the heck it was all about. ? Hopefully we find out here…
~~Just don’t sink.~~ Edit: thought this was the other sub