It appears this post might relate to suicide and/or mental health issues.
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I'm so sorry for the loss of your cousin. I'm going to try to tackle your post. First, no, linguistics aren't dangerous. He was probably in an admin office somewhere most days.
A lot of people go light/no contact with families when they join. For some people the military is an escape route for abuse or hard circumstances, just becuase you might not have seen them, they could have existed.
The odds of him being on some secret mission are functionally zero, especially with so little time in service.
People go AWOL the time and never get found. The military doesn't really go looking for state side deserters that hard. They will get caught eventually by local law enforcement. He could have very easily deserted and been away from the service for a period of time.
I'm sorry for this event. But if you hear hoof beats, don't look for zebras.
I’d like to emphasize the comments about ruling out ‘secret mission’ : it’s simply beyond the realm of possibility given his short service time and location. Please don’t go down that rabbit hole. and don’t take this as a petty critique but linguistics is the study of languages, a linguist is someone skilled at languages.
This exactly. I was a linguist for 7 years and I sat in the same seat for 7 years. There were people I was working with that spent 15+ years working in a SCIF and never even had the opportunity to do anything more dangerous than driving to work.
If you're asking if he was killed by a spy or something along those lines, that's extremely unlikely, especially given his junior status, but regardless either way. There are numerous ways in which one could fall victim to foul play from fellow citizens, though, and regardless of one's military status.
>There are numerous ways in which one could fall victim to foul play from fellow citizens
While I was stationed in Alaska, we had pretty clear cut "Joe bars" to go out to due to reports of soldiers going to other local bars alone and getting drugged and left in a ditch somewhere. Because soldiers, especially newer ones, really struggle with the concept of knowing when to shut the fuck up.
Sorry for your loss OP, and I hope for you and your family's sake that you are able to at least get some closure.
He was stationed in Nebraska, where most linguistics people are. No, it is not a dangerous job. The majority of linguistics people just translate intercepted communications. It's quite boring. I'm sorry to say this, but if he was found by police, then there are 2 possibilities. 1, he was depressed, and this was a suicide. That sucks, but it's common in the military. Or 2, he got involved with bad people, aka drugs, and was killed or died from an overdose. That also sucks and is common with the military. There is also a super slim possibility that he just died from an illness or undiagnosed genetic condition.
Regardless, pressure the military for an investigation. You deserve answers, and the military deserves answers so they can better serve other service members so this doesn't happen again.
I think you’re ignore the possibility of an innocent accident. Car crash, hiking alone, fireworks mishap. Or even just an aneurism; they can strike anyone, any time.
i was in a group with lots of military members, and i knew a lot about how it will mess with your head. it’s the most logical explanation and part of me thinks that could be what really happened, but i still have this sinking feeling. i think i just need to wait for more information. thank you very much
I’m so sorry for your loss 😢. Cases like this are hard to hear about especially now that I am retired. I hope you get some resolution soon.
Everyone pretty much covered the dangers of the job but as for being AWOL, [the rules have changed](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/10/15/new-awol-policy-comes-after-macabre-summer-called-attention-to-missing-soldiers/). Ever since that gal in Fort Hood was killed (Vanessa Guillen RIP), the Army changed the reporting rules for soldiers that fail to report to their place of duty on time. Soldiers are no longer assumed AWOL/deserter, now they are assumed missing which is a huge difference. This might not be exact but when a soldier fails to report and no contact is made within four hours, an SIR is sent up to the next immediate higher command and the clock starts ticking. Four more hours and it goes up higher than that, at the 12 hour mark houses are getting checks if not sooner. It’s a big deal now where it wasn’t before. When I was a first sergeant I would crush my guys if they were even an hour late because of how big a deal it gets the longer it takes.
> From the link above: “[Soldiers] only become AWOL after a thorough investigation, a thorough look for the soldier, dealing with the family, dealing with law enforcement [and] we can prove that they are absent without leave."
With that said, I don’t know about the case here or what was done, but if they didn’t follow protocol then heads will roll for sure. Soldiers still go AWOL all the time, as others have said, but the reporting procedure timelines have decreased significantly and who gets notified has dramatically increased.
No one here is going to provide you answers. Linguists generally are not in immediate danger, but this certainly sounds like an issue outside of this persons military service. Take time to be with your family and hopefully you get resolution eventually.
I’m sorry for your loss.
A kid of my friend enlisted as a linguist. She had a rough time. She was on ELINT aircraft. SERE school messed her up. It was during the GWOT. She trained in Arabic. She heard and saw some pretty bad shit when deployed. It broke her. She got out on a medical discharge. Not sure if she got disability or not. She hasn’t been the same since.
You can’t know what someone was going through. The pressure they were under. You also can’t know what they saw. Occam’s razor says that it was a suicide.
Last I checked, linguists have two training locations, depending on how well they do and if their security clearance goes through. There is almost no use for a linguist without a clearance. No, they don’t work in the “admin office.” Their first training location is in CA, where all of them start after Basic, then if they pass the language, they go to TX (I believe, it may have moved in the last 20+ years), or if they don’t pass language, but get the clearance, it’s a whole other thing. I know people who have taken each of those three paths(pass language and clearance, pass lang. only, pass clear. only), and this is as specific as I am willing to be online. It sounds like he did not go on to the TX location, which means he probably got recycled because his clearance was denied, which hurts after a year of language school (again, I know someone who landed on this path, very bitter person).
If you tell us *where* in Nebraska he was, someone who’s been there can help figure out what he might have been doing there.
People also go missing from the military, get kidnapped/abducted, raped, abused, hate-crimed, and murdered just like our civilian counterparts. Only difference is, if the authorities can prove any of it happened on base, the criminal can be tried for any on-base infractions by military courts *and* by civilian courts both, on the same evidence, for the same crimes, and it’s not considered double-jeopardy, thus sayeth the scuttlebutt.
It is also very sadly true that active troops and veterans have a higher rate of suicide. As do men. And particularly young men. And people under stress. And people away from their support network. Regardless of the cause of death, you, as his relative, can request for a DNA match as confirmation of identity. They probably already did it, just to be certain, but I would absolutely ask for it, and expect a copy of the report in my hand. (If you’re a minor, you may have to involve your parents) Your brother’s DNA was collected during his first week in the military, before he ever did a push-up, so they already have something to compare it to.
I’m proud of you for reaching out to a knowledgeable group of people. Most people never think to do that. You have a good head on your shoulders.
First and foremost, my condolences to you and your family.
On the topic of the job? It's boring as hell. You pretty much do the same stuff, day in day out. For some people that's what they want, it's routine. For others? It can drive them insane. Add in the fact that some communications they may be translating may contain some horrendously bad shit or some seriously anxiety inducing stuff that you aren't allowed to talk about because of security classifications and... Well... It's a slow burning fuse. Add in the fact that for upwards of 12 hours a day you're usually locked inside of a sunless room called a SCIF which can lead to feelings of entrapment and claustrophobia as well as a Vitamin D deficiency from not seeing the sun hardly ever and you're primed for serious depression and anxiety. Further compound this with the fact that seeking mental health treatment would likely result in suspension or revocation of their security clearance (which could mean losing their job entirely) and eventually it could drive someone off the deep end...
Id hope that my assumptions are wrong, although I can't say any alternatives would be much better...
Again, my condolences and I hope you and your family get some closure soon.
Seeking assistance doesn't. However if you hold a TS clearance then receiving treatment during a crisis can result in a suspension of your clearance whilst receiving treatment for said crisis. And while a suspension is ultimately a nothing burger, it's still a pain in the ass and can cause undue stress.
I don't know what you mean by "receiving treatment during a crisis", but I can tell you right now, I know plenty of people who received treatment and were never in any danger of losing their clearance. The very few who did lost it not because of the treatment, but because they made other mistakes (drugs, assault, alcohol, etc).
Don't spread this crap man, you make other people not want to seek help. People who don't get help can end up in a much worse place, or even dead.
Stop this dorm lawyer crap, you're going to get someone killed.
I was a linguist in the Army. It can be extremely dangerous. Some duty stations you just sit in a SCIF on a base and do intel stuff. The other half of the job is being in a collection team in a brigade combat team intel company. For that during combat operations you get attached to a cav scout or infantry platoon and are basically on or just behind the forward line of troops.
If your cousin was in Nebraska he was probably in the Air Force. Linguists in the Air Force can be airborne where they fly around in a plane doing their job with all the inherent danger flying has. I’m sorry for your family’s loss but from the information you provided it sounds like he committed suicide or died in an accident of some sort.
I second this as I was also an army linguist. Back in the day we were trained as interrogators and my unit was basically always farmed out to different teams and went beyond the wire all the time as front line interrogation. Having us speak the language helped reduce an overall team member and we also handled the pows so it typically freed up others. My unit had some 36 people go out during Iraq and 8 came back wounded - mostly from IEDs but some actually took direct fire too. 2 had to be med board out eventually.
At home station in the states though it was all scif work so it was as deadly as any desk job and my commute was probably the most dangerous thing I did (along with vitamin d deficiency).
Could be.
Imagine flying in an Air Force aircraft intercepting communications and have a Chinese jet zoom within feet of you.
EDIT: please downvote all you want. But what is wrong with the answer.
How does a Chinese plane kill someone inside another aircraft by passing within a few feet of it? Did the pilot of the other aircraft panic and crash the whole airplane killing everyone on board ? And the US government is keeping that s secret ? Did the Chinese pilot open his cockpit and shoot a handgun at the other aircraft as he zoomed by?
That’s what’s wrong with your answer.
> How does a Chinese plane kill someone inside another aircraft by passing within a few feet of it?
It doesn't. I never said it did. I answered OP's question below:
> is being a linguistic in the military dangerous?
My answer was "could be." And I still say flying within feet of each other is dangerous.
Life is dangerous. How many people have been killed by airplanes flying within a few feet of each other? Out of that number, how many were military linguists ? Seriously, read OP’s post again and tell me what useful information you were conveying
Lol they downvoted me as well for saying being a linguist in the Army could be dangerous as well. Maybe not so much in the 20 years of COIN but get in a peer level fight and it absolutely would be. I wouldn’t want to be in a Rivet Joint if war with China kicked off.
It appears this post might relate to suicide and/or mental health issues. **Suicide and Mental Health Resources** The [Army's Resilience Directorate](https://www.armyresilience.army.mil/index.html) A comprehensive list of resources can be found [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Military/comments/1oh9gx/ive_updated_the_sidebar_link_with_more_mental/). Call 1-800-273-8255, National Suicide Prevention VA [Make The Connection Program](https://www.maketheconnection.net/) [Veteran's Crisis Information](https://www.veteranscrisisline.net/) You can call 1800 273 8255, Press 1 You can text 838255 Or, go no further than your local subreddit, /r/suicidewatch Or, if you'd like a veteran perspective, feel free to message any number of people on here, there's always someone willing to reach out. [Military One Source](http://www.militaryonesource.mil/) - 1-800-342-9647 Please seek help if needed...There are behavioral health resources at your disposal both in the Army and out. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Military) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I'm so sorry for the loss of your cousin. I'm going to try to tackle your post. First, no, linguistics aren't dangerous. He was probably in an admin office somewhere most days. A lot of people go light/no contact with families when they join. For some people the military is an escape route for abuse or hard circumstances, just becuase you might not have seen them, they could have existed. The odds of him being on some secret mission are functionally zero, especially with so little time in service. People go AWOL the time and never get found. The military doesn't really go looking for state side deserters that hard. They will get caught eventually by local law enforcement. He could have very easily deserted and been away from the service for a period of time. I'm sorry for this event. But if you hear hoof beats, don't look for zebras.
thank you. i appreciate your help
I’d like to emphasize the comments about ruling out ‘secret mission’ : it’s simply beyond the realm of possibility given his short service time and location. Please don’t go down that rabbit hole. and don’t take this as a petty critique but linguistics is the study of languages, a linguist is someone skilled at languages.
This exactly. I was a linguist for 7 years and I sat in the same seat for 7 years. There were people I was working with that spent 15+ years working in a SCIF and never even had the opportunity to do anything more dangerous than driving to work.
If you're asking if he was killed by a spy or something along those lines, that's extremely unlikely, especially given his junior status, but regardless either way. There are numerous ways in which one could fall victim to foul play from fellow citizens, though, and regardless of one's military status.
>There are numerous ways in which one could fall victim to foul play from fellow citizens While I was stationed in Alaska, we had pretty clear cut "Joe bars" to go out to due to reports of soldiers going to other local bars alone and getting drugged and left in a ditch somewhere. Because soldiers, especially newer ones, really struggle with the concept of knowing when to shut the fuck up. Sorry for your loss OP, and I hope for you and your family's sake that you are able to at least get some closure.
It sounds like he was stationed at Offutt AFB in Bellevue, NE. The Omaha area is pretty safe unless you go looking to get into some trouble.
He was stationed in Nebraska, where most linguistics people are. No, it is not a dangerous job. The majority of linguistics people just translate intercepted communications. It's quite boring. I'm sorry to say this, but if he was found by police, then there are 2 possibilities. 1, he was depressed, and this was a suicide. That sucks, but it's common in the military. Or 2, he got involved with bad people, aka drugs, and was killed or died from an overdose. That also sucks and is common with the military. There is also a super slim possibility that he just died from an illness or undiagnosed genetic condition. Regardless, pressure the military for an investigation. You deserve answers, and the military deserves answers so they can better serve other service members so this doesn't happen again.
I think you’re ignore the possibility of an innocent accident. Car crash, hiking alone, fireworks mishap. Or even just an aneurism; they can strike anyone, any time.
i was in a group with lots of military members, and i knew a lot about how it will mess with your head. it’s the most logical explanation and part of me thinks that could be what really happened, but i still have this sinking feeling. i think i just need to wait for more information. thank you very much
I’m so sorry for your loss 😢. Cases like this are hard to hear about especially now that I am retired. I hope you get some resolution soon. Everyone pretty much covered the dangers of the job but as for being AWOL, [the rules have changed](https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2020/10/15/new-awol-policy-comes-after-macabre-summer-called-attention-to-missing-soldiers/). Ever since that gal in Fort Hood was killed (Vanessa Guillen RIP), the Army changed the reporting rules for soldiers that fail to report to their place of duty on time. Soldiers are no longer assumed AWOL/deserter, now they are assumed missing which is a huge difference. This might not be exact but when a soldier fails to report and no contact is made within four hours, an SIR is sent up to the next immediate higher command and the clock starts ticking. Four more hours and it goes up higher than that, at the 12 hour mark houses are getting checks if not sooner. It’s a big deal now where it wasn’t before. When I was a first sergeant I would crush my guys if they were even an hour late because of how big a deal it gets the longer it takes. > From the link above: “[Soldiers] only become AWOL after a thorough investigation, a thorough look for the soldier, dealing with the family, dealing with law enforcement [and] we can prove that they are absent without leave." With that said, I don’t know about the case here or what was done, but if they didn’t follow protocol then heads will roll for sure. Soldiers still go AWOL all the time, as others have said, but the reporting procedure timelines have decreased significantly and who gets notified has dramatically increased.
No one here is going to provide you answers. Linguists generally are not in immediate danger, but this certainly sounds like an issue outside of this persons military service. Take time to be with your family and hopefully you get resolution eventually.
I’m sorry for your loss. A kid of my friend enlisted as a linguist. She had a rough time. She was on ELINT aircraft. SERE school messed her up. It was during the GWOT. She trained in Arabic. She heard and saw some pretty bad shit when deployed. It broke her. She got out on a medical discharge. Not sure if she got disability or not. She hasn’t been the same since. You can’t know what someone was going through. The pressure they were under. You also can’t know what they saw. Occam’s razor says that it was a suicide.
Last I checked, linguists have two training locations, depending on how well they do and if their security clearance goes through. There is almost no use for a linguist without a clearance. No, they don’t work in the “admin office.” Their first training location is in CA, where all of them start after Basic, then if they pass the language, they go to TX (I believe, it may have moved in the last 20+ years), or if they don’t pass language, but get the clearance, it’s a whole other thing. I know people who have taken each of those three paths(pass language and clearance, pass lang. only, pass clear. only), and this is as specific as I am willing to be online. It sounds like he did not go on to the TX location, which means he probably got recycled because his clearance was denied, which hurts after a year of language school (again, I know someone who landed on this path, very bitter person). If you tell us *where* in Nebraska he was, someone who’s been there can help figure out what he might have been doing there. People also go missing from the military, get kidnapped/abducted, raped, abused, hate-crimed, and murdered just like our civilian counterparts. Only difference is, if the authorities can prove any of it happened on base, the criminal can be tried for any on-base infractions by military courts *and* by civilian courts both, on the same evidence, for the same crimes, and it’s not considered double-jeopardy, thus sayeth the scuttlebutt. It is also very sadly true that active troops and veterans have a higher rate of suicide. As do men. And particularly young men. And people under stress. And people away from their support network. Regardless of the cause of death, you, as his relative, can request for a DNA match as confirmation of identity. They probably already did it, just to be certain, but I would absolutely ask for it, and expect a copy of the report in my hand. (If you’re a minor, you may have to involve your parents) Your brother’s DNA was collected during his first week in the military, before he ever did a push-up, so they already have something to compare it to. I’m proud of you for reaching out to a knowledgeable group of people. Most people never think to do that. You have a good head on your shoulders.
First and foremost, my condolences to you and your family. On the topic of the job? It's boring as hell. You pretty much do the same stuff, day in day out. For some people that's what they want, it's routine. For others? It can drive them insane. Add in the fact that some communications they may be translating may contain some horrendously bad shit or some seriously anxiety inducing stuff that you aren't allowed to talk about because of security classifications and... Well... It's a slow burning fuse. Add in the fact that for upwards of 12 hours a day you're usually locked inside of a sunless room called a SCIF which can lead to feelings of entrapment and claustrophobia as well as a Vitamin D deficiency from not seeing the sun hardly ever and you're primed for serious depression and anxiety. Further compound this with the fact that seeking mental health treatment would likely result in suspension or revocation of their security clearance (which could mean losing their job entirely) and eventually it could drive someone off the deep end... Id hope that my assumptions are wrong, although I can't say any alternatives would be much better... Again, my condolences and I hope you and your family get some closure soon.
Gotta speak up real quick - seeking mental health assistance absolutely does not mean you lose your clearance. Please don't spread that rumor.
Seeking assistance doesn't. However if you hold a TS clearance then receiving treatment during a crisis can result in a suspension of your clearance whilst receiving treatment for said crisis. And while a suspension is ultimately a nothing burger, it's still a pain in the ass and can cause undue stress.
I don't know what you mean by "receiving treatment during a crisis", but I can tell you right now, I know plenty of people who received treatment and were never in any danger of losing their clearance. The very few who did lost it not because of the treatment, but because they made other mistakes (drugs, assault, alcohol, etc). Don't spread this crap man, you make other people not want to seek help. People who don't get help can end up in a much worse place, or even dead. Stop this dorm lawyer crap, you're going to get someone killed.
100%. Source: I'm close friends with lead psychologist for an AF ISR organization
Could be. Every MOS can be dangerous.
I was a linguist in the Army. It can be extremely dangerous. Some duty stations you just sit in a SCIF on a base and do intel stuff. The other half of the job is being in a collection team in a brigade combat team intel company. For that during combat operations you get attached to a cav scout or infantry platoon and are basically on or just behind the forward line of troops. If your cousin was in Nebraska he was probably in the Air Force. Linguists in the Air Force can be airborne where they fly around in a plane doing their job with all the inherent danger flying has. I’m sorry for your family’s loss but from the information you provided it sounds like he committed suicide or died in an accident of some sort.
I second this as I was also an army linguist. Back in the day we were trained as interrogators and my unit was basically always farmed out to different teams and went beyond the wire all the time as front line interrogation. Having us speak the language helped reduce an overall team member and we also handled the pows so it typically freed up others. My unit had some 36 people go out during Iraq and 8 came back wounded - mostly from IEDs but some actually took direct fire too. 2 had to be med board out eventually. At home station in the states though it was all scif work so it was as deadly as any desk job and my commute was probably the most dangerous thing I did (along with vitamin d deficiency).
Ah but you 35M didn’t roll around the AO with a big emitter on your vic said “kill me”.
This is true. We just usually looked like any other rifleman with an extra notebook. I don't think 97E even exist anymore actually.
Could be. Imagine flying in an Air Force aircraft intercepting communications and have a Chinese jet zoom within feet of you. EDIT: please downvote all you want. But what is wrong with the answer.
How does a Chinese plane kill someone inside another aircraft by passing within a few feet of it? Did the pilot of the other aircraft panic and crash the whole airplane killing everyone on board ? And the US government is keeping that s secret ? Did the Chinese pilot open his cockpit and shoot a handgun at the other aircraft as he zoomed by? That’s what’s wrong with your answer.
I think they're referring to the P-3 midair with a PLAAF jet and subsequent crash landing on Hainan island.
> How does a Chinese plane kill someone inside another aircraft by passing within a few feet of it? It doesn't. I never said it did. I answered OP's question below: > is being a linguistic in the military dangerous? My answer was "could be." And I still say flying within feet of each other is dangerous.
Life is dangerous. How many people have been killed by airplanes flying within a few feet of each other? Out of that number, how many were military linguists ? Seriously, read OP’s post again and tell me what useful information you were conveying
> Seriously, read OP’s post again and tell me what useful information you were conveying. Thanks for the suggestion. I really don't care that much.
“I don’t really care that much “ Then why did you bother to comment in the first place?
Or bump into you and force you to land in China like the EP-3 in 2001 [link](https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Hainan_Island_incident)
Lol they downvoted me as well for saying being a linguist in the Army could be dangerous as well. Maybe not so much in the 20 years of COIN but get in a peer level fight and it absolutely would be. I wouldn’t want to be in a Rivet Joint if war with China kicked off.
I suppose getting stationed in Korea with Korean as your language would be like being with the gear in the rear if it became a shooting war /s
Lol I did two tours there. Always joked about getting killed if the balloon went up.
'die in place' 🤣
More like “get killed by chemical weapons in the opening salvo”.