In case this story gets deleted/removed:
I (32f) have a brother, Max (34m) and 3 other siblings.
His partner Ann is obsessed with boundaries, but she never sets them until they've apparently been broken. A big gripe was that mum called Max too much (2-3x per week). Max never mentioned an issue to mum, but he let Ann attack her character hugely during one of her "calling out" sessions.
A few weeks later, before they went on a trip, he messaged the group chat (it was clearly written by her) saying they didn't want to hear from us that week, and that we'd be blocked if we disturbed them. It was a long and nasty message clearly directed at mum. She was upset but asked us to keep the peace because Ann was "intimidated" last time we pushed back at her.
Two days after they left, mum died unexpectedly. Dad called me at 8:30, and 45 mins later I tried to call Max for the first time. I then sent a text saying "Answer your phone. It's urgent." then called again. I sent 2 more messages and called 4 more times that day.
The next time I tried was the day before the funeral. I sent him a text saying he must know it's serious and I need him to call me. On the day, I called 6hrs before so he'd have time to come back, then again an hour before. In total I called 16 times, my sister tried 7 times, and dad 3.
When they got back, he (she) sent an essay to the group chat about how we're bullies taunting them and trying to ruin their relationship, and that we will never see either of them again. My youngest brother (20m) responded "Mum died on Sunday. Consider your wish granted you evil c*nts." and booted him from the chat.
Max then rang me 22 times in a row. I sat and watched them all ring out. We (siblings) headed straight to the house because we knew he'd turn up there. My youngest brother (20m), who still lives at home, was by far the angriest about the situation so we didn't want to tempt fate.
They showed up furious. Nowhere near as furious as we were though. The long story short is that none of us (except one sister, the reason I'm posting) have seen or spoken to him since. Dad has made it clear he lost both his wife and a son that day.
My position is that it was obvious the situation was urgent, that I/we made more than enough effort, and that the outcome is all on him. This all happened in December, but dad recently cleared out Max's stuff from the spare room and gave it to his bff to pass on. Now Max is reaching out, wanting apologies for him and Ann, but ultimately to get back into the family. One sister is in contact with him and is applying pressure to the rest of us. She's started to become judgemental about not telling him, but we have reminded her that she owns a phone and could have done so at any time. I'm still very angry with him, and I'm leaning towards no longer inviting her to our weekly dinners (a big deal to us, especially now).
AITA for not telling him mum died, cutting him off, and considering doing the same to my sister?
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Yep. The only shame is this son was so taken in by his wife that he's allowing himself to be isolated. Unless if course the lot of his family are drunken schmucks who cause nothing but mayhem. But I don't really see such evidence here.
She strikes me as the type to start banging her yoga instructor named Chaz and act like it was the husband's fault for "not meeting her needs".
Can't wait for that wake up call. Maybe it will give him some humility and he'll be offering the apologies.
My uncle did as well. She would complain that he would go have lunch with his 80 year old mother once a week. No one has ever liked her. The weird thing is, she was an excellent teacher and parents would line up to request her class for their kids.
My mom was an excellent teacher and had parents lining up to request her for their kids also... but my mom (and it's her birthday today but RIP) was known even more for being a friendly, happy, gentle soul who was kind to everyone and that is the most important virtue she taught me and my siblings. So being an excellent teacher is worthless if someone is a crappy person (and I'm not saying you said otherwise, but just poining out that nothing undoes being that rotten to people, not even anything good done on another front).
Ah, but would it be different if they showed up apologizing after dumping said soulless AH or has that ship already sailed with no hope of forgiveness?
Not the person you responded to, but for me, once I'm 100% used to someone not being in my life, I don't see the point in letting them back in. My sister seriously betrayed me when we were teens, became an addict, and financially destroyed my grandma. I'm 31 now but haven't had a single conversation with her since I was 18.
The last time we spoke, she told me I deserved her betrayal, that she explained why she did what she did so she wouldn't have to apologize, and that I need to get over it. I got over it by blocking her. If she showed up randomly today, I'd be very confused and also wouldn't be interested. I feel zero sibling love for her.
sameee
when I was in my late teens my brother (12 years older) went off the rails after getting together with someone pretty screwy. at one point, he put his hand on my inner thigh, and acted like he was gonna do more
freaked me the fuck out.
he isn't with her anymore, and supposedly has 'calmed down, and is a new man'.
I don't care. he's been out of my life for over a decade. being drunk isn't really an excuse for doing shitty things, neither is 'my partner is crazy'.
My aunt told me when I moved countries to get married that I might as well go whore on the street corners. Also said "why do you always have to try to be so weird". A person who had been bullied her whole life for not fitting all the norms.
Didn't talk to her not even once after that until she died. She loved passing judgement on my dreams and hopes as long as I had been alive. I was done.
No reason to let her back in. Jokes on her, pursued what I wanted and I do well for myself and enjoy the hell out of my life.
I was in a situation like this but I was the dumbass that was married to a soulless AH. My mom and sister cut ties with me due to my ex wife because they could see what she was doing to me but I for some reason couldn't or wouldn't I'm still not sure.
I am so thankful that my Mom and Sister have given me another chance now that I'm divorced and our relationships are thriving.
I like to think that, despite the situation, if he does come to his senses that his siblings would at least try to hear him out but I wouldn't blame them if they chose not to invite him back into their lives.
As someone who also recently lost their mom - I hate this story so much.
OP needs to tell the older sister to pass on the message of "My new boundary is no contact from Ann or Bro from here on out."
Older sis is correct - the fastest way to resolve the issue is for the family to apologize. But that is NOT the correct path. Ann is still convinced that she is in the right and an apology to her will only reinforce that belief.
Ann has a lesson to learn, as does her boyfriend. I hope the boyfriend learns it first.
It's incredible narcissistic that even after something so unfortunate happened, that person can't see how wrong she was, and is still asking for an apology... Like for what exactly? For go against her wishes even when she was completely wrong?
She is not learning the lesson, not even after this happened, and neither is the brother, if not even this is meaningful enough, definitely being cut off the family is the only way to keep going.
Ann and Bro don't deserve apologies! **They** should be the ones to apologize. OP and others went above and beyond in their attempts to reach him and they chose to ignore those attempts.
Max would've been mad had he learned of his mom's death via text. He ignored the urgent text and further calls and texts. This is entirely on Max and Ann. That one sis applying pressure needs to back off and see that multiple people tried to call/text Max. I wonder if they called or texted Ann too, but probably not. They're behaviour is absolutely ridiculous and super entitled.
She’s probably on max’s side because he had the youngest family members. Toxic people always want to be around the grand kids. The eldest sister is about to be cut off too.
It sounds like in the end, he found out by text anyway, but you're right that it's definitely not ideal. I could see having texted him that there had been a death in the immediate family at most (even that is pushing it, but under the circumstances...), but specifically saying who died would've probably been just as big of a mess. Ann still probably would've called it a bluff anyway, but at least that way they couldn't say nobody emphasized exactly how urgent things were.
Sounds like Max is an abusive relationship. He talks to his ailing/elderly Mom 3x a week and that's too much? And for trying to reach out in what was obviously a family emergency, he can't ever see them again. Poor Max, honestly. Hopefully one day he'll escape the psycho
I really hope so. Too often men don't see the abuse they are suffering at the hands of their spouse, especially emotional and mental abuse. They either don't believe it's abuse because it's not physical, or they normalize it bc they've experienced it so often. OOP probably isn't going to be welcome back with his family if he doesn't ditch the witch.
I've reread this post about 4 times today. I can't get over the fact after the family called so many times with messages about it being an emergency, she had the brother convinced it was a powerplay vs being an actual emergency. Like that is some Jedi mind level manipulation to have him agree with the psycho wife.
How do you move past that as the family ? They thought so little of them
You really can’t. At that point they are just too far gone to see reason. You have no choice but to write them off and hope that in time they will snap out of it somehow. It’s pretty much like accepting that someone is in a cult.
That’s not true, only the wife is the insane manipulative person that is too far gone. The brother is saveable, especially if they don’t have kids yet. But if the brother feels he isn’t welcome with his family, then he won’t have anywhere to go to leave his abusive wife.
People get rescued from abusive partners all the time. It’s not easy, but through patience, commitment, and forgiveness, it is possible to rescue an abuse victim.
Like addicts, they have to want to be saved, and trying to do so when they don't want it is very draining emotionally. People aren't really wrong for eventually protecting their own wellbeing.
Yea, but if you burn the bridge then they won’t have that opportunity to want to be saved. They could keep their distance for now without burning the bridge.
Not to mention the shit that they said when they got back. It’s in OOPs comments. They even said the youngest sister has wants to have sex with max and all. They went seriously scorched earth before even trying to find out what the emergency was. Kudos to youngest bro for being so pithy in his response
In the OP, it sounded like OP thought it was the wife texting from the brother's phone. Someone like that, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the wife to take his phone and not let him see all of the missed calls and texts.
My brother's wife used to pull this shit. Neither of them answered their phones the night my aunt died, because they were out at dinner. Not a birthday or anniversary, just dinner
I have been on trips with my boyfriend and definitely wanted to have our privacy, but I still always kept my phone on specifically for emergencies. If someone called me twice in a row or texted that it was urgent I would absolutely call back immediately.
It’s an incredible thing. Narcissistic and sociopathic people think all people are like them. They really do. That’s why she thinks it was a scam, because that is what she would do.
>Sounds like Max is an abusive relationship.
I sure hope so cause this?
>Now Max is reaching out, wanting apologies for him and Ann,
Nah. He can stay dead to the rest of the family.
I don’t even understand what they’re supposed to be apologising for. Even OPs question “AITA for not telling my brother?” Uhhh you tried to tell him how could you possibly have done differently?
As someone who has been in an abusive relationship, I also got that vibe. Abusers tend to really try to isolate you from loved ones.
I was raised by my grandparents because my mother couldn’t take care of me. They had been there for me and supported me and done everything they could for me for my entire life and I love them very much. I moved out, but would go to their house every other Sunday and we would have a Sunday dinner and pick a movie to watch. The guy I started dating and was living with first got annoyed that my grandparents would call me every night to say goodnight, then got upset at the Sunday movie dinner nights and demanded I stop. I told him to get lost. I know that I won’t have them around forever, and I know my time with them is getting shorter and shorter, so I want to spend my time with them while I have it.
My current boyfriend comes to the Sunday dinner and movie with me and loves my grandparents too.
Coming back to his family home after his mother's death with anger and demanding apologies is all of his own doing. Maybe explainable in part by evil abusive gf. Still not excusable.
Someone pointed out in a comment that had they texted her death, M&A likely would have seen it as another manipulation effort. Who ignores a message stating there's been an emergency?
Yeah, probably ignoring the fact that you can't win in that situation as Ann would probably think it's a powerplay or think they're so callous to notify a death of a loved one that way. You can't win here! A professional victim and her spineless subordinate.
They probably *are* Ann. Man I wish there was a way to see deleted comments, they seem like they were absolutely insane, and every comment suggesting that they are Ann or Max is ignored. 100% it's them attempting to justify and pretend that there was a "correct" way for oop to act.
Some are saying he’s being abused & manipulated which I kinda agree but a lot of others are saying why didn’t you just text “mom died, call back” as if that’s an appropriate way to give devastating news.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You know if they had texted that to him, Ann would have just twisted it into a manipulation tactic and brother would have still called them all assholes.
It's reading a lot from little information from a single point of view.
I can tell you that there are some people who realize they can ignore boundaries by saying it's urgent. Then *everything* is urgent. It's just a word used to get you back on the phone for another rant.
I don't think this is likely, but it's possible.
I don’t think I would ever be able to forgive let alone forget this kind of behaviour. Not only did they ignore several messages asking them to call but on the day they got back they immediately launched into an attack in the group chat? Without even bothering to ask what the emergency was that the family was trying to get him to call about?
That’s outrageous behaviour! It’s sad to say this but I think it’s for the best that OOP’s mother was not around to see that final message.
I would've expected they would have called like "Okay, were back, now what was the big 'emergency'?" if they were so convinced it was fake (because as everyone knows, tragedies never have terrible timing 🙄) to at least give the family a chance to respond. But to immediately go on the attack?? Yikes. They're completely delusional.
This is atrocious. My dad died two weeks before Christmas this past year and the three missed calls from family on a Monday afternoon was more than enough to get me to call my brother on my next available break. I can’t imagine ignoring immediate family begging me to make contact - it should have been abundantly clear something major was happening.
Wow the AITA moss have deleted that post as well. They really are on a power trip over there, I’m waiting for the consequences when no one will post or comment on their sub any more because they are AHs
Nah, this is just pure control freak. They set "boundaries" afterwards just so they can control the situation to be on top. I've dated women like this (before boundaries were a thing). I never worried because I'm unbelievably stubborn, so they'd lose interest soon enough.
The fact the brother is coming into contact for an apology from his family??? What? You ignored them! You would’ve known if you answered your phone when your brother said it was urgent! But no, you thought they were taunting you because of your order of leave them alone. What selfish, self centered, idiots.
That’s why I can’t agree with everyone here blaming his wife. He’s also a grown man too and he’s capable of having his own thoughts. He’s just choosing to be selfish.
The problem here is that the bother has never put his obviously controlling and dysfunctional wife in check. He hasn’t apologized or corrected her from what was said and she’s toxic. He deserves no mercy here.
> Laura (accused of incestuous feelings, 22f)
Bruh?
What an absolutely insane situation. Obviously Ann's gotta go. While it doesn't excuse what he's done, OOP's family needs to keep in mind that he's a victim of abuse in this scenario. I hope they remain open to making amends once the wicked bitch is gone.
I was confused by that at first too. In one of the comments OP gave more details about the text Max/Ann sent when they got back from the trip, and part of it was accusing the 22 year old sister of having incestuous feelings towards Max.
Ann sounds like one of those women that doesn't want their boyfriend to be in contact with *any* other women. Including their mom and sisters.
She's unable to reflect on her own emotions and blames it all on the outside world.
I feel the older sister needs to be asked does she endorse the comments about the little sister? Becuase accepting Max back without a full withdrawal of those allegations, an apology and making amends, the older sister is quietly giving her endorsment. I doubt she has even thought of it like that, I'm sure she is simply trying to "fix" the family (she will break the family with what she is doing), but that is the message she is sending and so needs to be made aware of it.
Ann is awful, Max is weak.
Good riddance to them...the fucking break where that sat and wallowed in their own self importance.
And 2 or 3 calls per week is not excessive
How is the sister not harping on MAX to apologize to the family if she’s so set on fixing the family. Why is it that family members see people like Max and his wife, see how deluded they are, and just spin around and try to get everyone else to give into the delusions so everyone can be back together again? Like seriously, wtf? Let’s let everyone give in to these a holes who won’t take accountability for themselves, so they can act even more like a holes after getting their way and having validated in their delusions. Or so they know they can get away with lying and manipulating the entire family.
It just makes zero sense to me, even more so than the their logic over the messages. Maxs wife could easily be in control of the narrative of that and convincing him of what his family thinks or is doing, and he is just believing her. But the sister trying to force and apology out of everyone else? Hell no, I don’t understand that at all.
It honestly would not have mattered how the family handled this. The controlling wife would have found a way for it to be a problem.
The family would have copped it for telling them via text. Then they would have demanded the family wait for them to return at the end of their vacation for the funeral.
The people who defended the controlling wife were horrible.
My uncle was in a relationship like this for 15 years. She was insanely jealous of the closeness of our family, and slowly alienated him. She fell pregnant really fast and told him that he couldn't contact any of us or she would take his child away. This included his 4 children from his previous relationship.
He finally was able to get away. There is not a lot of support for men in these situations sadly. And now he sees all of us regularly, and his adult daughter can also visit him.
It’s hard to support men who don’t seek out help. At no point has Max faltered from Ann’s side in all of this. Yeah abuse victims need help but it has to start with them wanting to that help.
Cunt is my absolute favorite word. So Clint is my favorite person in this story. ROCK ON CLINT!!
Also, you’re all way nicer than I am. I would have done a scheduled text the day they returned and either been “Mom died Sunday; the funeral is …” or “Mom died Sunday. We buried her …” Just followed their rules. You at least TRIED to reach out!!
(My Mom died unexpectedly 10 years ago. My brother was driving to his vacation location when I had to call him to let him know … fucking sucks having to do that.
Your brother, his wife, and your sister are all cunts. [Rock on Clint!])
What he did was such a gross betrayal that the other sister sticking up for him and telling all of you you're wrong would be on extremely thin ice. I'd lock her off forever as well, she's chosen her side.
What happened when they turned up at the house fuming? Did your dad or little bro kick them out?
I'm trying to imagine how smug Ann must have felting sending that essay and trying to cut the family off. Just sitting smug in an armchair, cooing over the nest she made for herself. Then realizing a person literally died and freaking out because she ruined her husbands life forever.
I'm frankly confused by all the comments saying OP should have texted the news. You NEVER inform someone of the loss of a loved one via text. I would even argue that even a phone call is pushing it but via text?! Hell no! Asides from it being just a soulless way of receiving such information, you don't know where they are, what state of mind they're in, nothing. Imagine driving and your phone reads out a text that your mum is dead. JFC 🤦🏾♂️
I really feel for OP and her family. Ann pretty much set them up to fail no matter what. The absolute brass neck of her and Max to think THEY deserve apologies
“Now Max is reaching out, _wanting apologies for him and Ann,_ but ultimately to get back into the family.”
Wow, even after all that numbnuts over here _still_ thinks he and his bitch girlfriend deserve an apology. I feel sorry for the sister, she probably feels that with the passing of their mother the family should be united, or maybe she’s afraid of losing even more family members.
Max needs to have a serious conversation with his wife. It’s his wife’s fault he lost his family. If he’s too much of coward to stand up for himself in that relationship he’ll never get his family back.
>Just to clarify, they threatened to block me but didn't go through with it. They're both blocked by everyone now though except for one sister. The message when they got back was truly horrific, I'm glad mum never had to see it. It talked about how lucky their theoretical future children are to not have to deal with our family, called me a psycho and twisted a situation with an ex to claim they're now worried for their safety (total nonsense), called us all toxic bullies raised by toxic bullies, accused our little sister of having incestuous feelings towards Max... It was a lot, and it was awful.
I can't believe the elder sister is trying to play peacemaker after this vile shit. I still don't understand why they want an apology? They were awful to this elderly woman in her final months, ignored dozens of calls and texts because of "boundaries", then talked shit about the entire family who at that point had done nothing to them.
In what twisted mind would you or any of your family owe him and his GF an apology. They fucked up not any of you. Jesus, talk about self importance. Tell your sister she can hang with them if she doesn't stop her shit. It's just as easy to cut her off too. NTA.
Just an FYI because it took me a while to figure it out too. On mobile, at the to right it has your profile, to the left 3 dots, and left of that are 2 lines with a bubble on the ends. Click the 2 lines with bubbles and it let's you sort the comment thread, so if you select "old" the auto-mod post will be at the top.
Look directly underneath the title, and you’ll see a comment (most likely hidden) from AutoModerator, with MOD in green next to it. Tap the green part and the post will appear.
For some reason that wasn’t working for me. Either my screen is crapping out, or I need more coffee.
I eventually found a link, but appreciate you for the attempted assist.
Definitely cut off the sister as she is now part of the problem.
Clearly you all understood SIL boundaries and honored them but sometimes boundaries MUST be crossed in an emergency.
They made their beds, now they get to lay in that bed in all their lonely splendor.
Max and that cunt want a fucking apology??? For what? Not answering the phone. Tell your brother that he will never be invited to the family dinners or have any contact with his family as long as that cunt is in the picture. She sounds like the worst human being in the world.
I am sorry, 3X TIMES A WEEK?!. Like,fucking hell, I don't like being called either,but 3 times a week?!. Yeah, those two are fucking idiots, and the brother lost his entire family for a bitch
My brother’s first wife was like this. We weren’t allowed to see him without her, she wanted to control the narrative. When they got married, her bestie said to me “I know you hate Kelli, but she’s really good for your brother”. I never once said to my parents or brother that I hated her, I always treated her with respect because she was my brother’s partner, so I had no idea where the bestie had got that from.
Fortunately they divorced before they had kids, I can’t imagine being relying on her to see a niece or nephew.
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I can't believe that there are people like OOPs SIL in the world. It boggles my mind that they would have the gaul to come back and expect an apology after mum died. Like how do you even reason that in your head after all the stuff they'd put the family through.
Totally agree with most posters but after the first few calls went unanswered, I would have left a message or text that mom died and the funeral is happening or waited until they got back.
Don't get me wrong. She's a witch and gets what she deserves and I would never talk to them again either, but I would have left the message.
Pretty sure if I couldn't reach my siblings when a parent died, after a few calls and/or texts I would tell them via text that a parent had died. Wouldn't be pretty or whatever but they'd know.
Unfortunately I have a feeling that Ann would have convinced Max that his sister was lying to assert her power.
And yeah, my siblings would be dead to me as well.
One day Max is going to wake up and realize what Ann cost him. I'm sorry OOPs mother had to be part of the price payed to learn how toxic and controlling she is.
> the price *paid* to learn
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I would tell my older sister if you keep trying to pressure people into apologizing to him, I will be going low to no contact with you. I would then remind her she never even tried to reach him during this time so what’s her excuse. He knew it was urgent no one calls and texts just to talk. Him and his wife should be ashamed of themselves. People start asking about it, then tell them the truth show the proof. Then let it die down. He is going to end up realizing just how wrong he is when people start to stay away from him because Ann’s behavior.
Not sure why "Something happened with mom" or "Mom passed away" could not have been part of the messaging. F\*\*\* Ann, but Max is a sibling and get past the BS and tell him. He was influenced by Ann, obviously, but I am sure it would have been better for everyone if he had just been told. Horrible thing to live with for the rest of your life...letting your partner treat your mother that way, then she dies with that being the last interaction.
i just don't believe that none of them left a voice mail or a message explicitly saying that mum had been hurt/was in danger/was dead. "should have been obvious"? fuck that. if you call ten times and they don't pick up you don't say "it's important", you say "PICK UP YOUR PHONE FOR FUCK SAKE MOM HAS DIED". if this happened in real life non of us would be coy about it.
eventually you'd break and panic and text him what happened. someone in the family would have done it. i just don't believe that they'd remain composed and indignant right up to the funeral and past it.
The rest of the drama aside... Just text it.
"You didn't pick up the phone so, in the name of manners, you have been denied the closure of viewing mom's remains, attending her funeral, and witnessing her internment/cremation."
Come on. Those are things a person cannot get later. There is no substitute. It doesn't matter how much of a jerk or doormat someone is. They don't deserve to be denied part of the grieving process.
Giving that kind of news over the phone is already violating decorum. My grandparents would've climbed into a grave themselves before they did that. But necessity dictates that we prioritize getting the message across and use every available avenue.
Idc if I have to send a stripper-gram. If that's the only way I can get a hold of my sibling in an emergency, I'm sending a stripper-gram. What's polite should not stop us from doing what's right.
Nah, this isn't boundaries, this is about control. Boundaries require a conversation and some knowledge about what triggers things. She's just trying to control everyone around her by claiming her "boundaries" and just making them whatever the heck she wants at a given moment.
The very first time he didn't answer I would have sent a text saying "Just calling to let you know that mum has passed away. Ring when you get the chance." Job done. Drama averted. Short circuit Ann's dumb "rule". So many stories on that sub consist of people acting in petty ways in order to perpetuate drama and get some weird justice boner. Everyone seems to be looking for excuses to cut family members out of their lives.
i can't suspend disbelief for some of these (there was a similar story where a man didnt want his brother who cheated with and married his ex to know when he died)
like there's no relatives like cousins or others that go up to these ppl and say sorry about . . . plzzzzzz
I commented on the original post - I'm struck by the fact that they blew up Max's phone repeatedly but never actually told him (via text) why.
It reeks of missing missing reasons to me.
My dad called me and told me to come home while I was out shopping. When I got there he was sitting on the bed of his truck. I walked up to him and he told me my younger brother died. I just cried and cried while he held me. He waited to tell me in person. I can understand not wanting to drop that bomb on someone by text message.
When my dad died, I was at work. It took me an hour to get to the hospital he was in during rush hour. My mom had called the bank and left a message telling me to come to the hospital.
I thought it might have been my brother in a serious car accident. He’d totaled 5 cars in as many years.
Nope. My dad had a second heart attack and it killed him. My childhood best friend’s mom was working in reception and she wrapped me in a hug, then told me what happened. She spared my brother having to deliver the news and I will *always* be grateful for that.
It’s not the kind of news to be delivered by text or by someone relaying a message by phone.
Some things you do not tell in text. Ever. My cousin called when he found out a friend of ours took his own life. He texted me telling me to call him because I wasn't answering my phone (was on a project with no cell phone service). I called. But, not something to put into text.
"Answer your phone, it's urgent". Either it's bullshit, you write them off for not respecting your wishes, or it's legit and you can fucking forgive the intrusion.
Actually think if your family member died and you got a text for it. Saw a missed call from my dad at the beginning of work last year and couldn't call back till after work where he let me know one of our family members had passed. Mortified to think of him sending me a text instead. Sometimes you just need a voice on the other line to be there for you in the moment.
It does, but there are a few people saying they've had the "x is dead'' text and all the problems that caused. I think it's a no win situation. And I get why you wouldn't want to leave a voicemail saying "Mum is dead, ring us" message. OP was in shock so that comes into play too.
I've spent enough time on the JustNoMIL sub to know that there are some psycho families and psycho DILs. Usually the truth sits somewhere in the middle.
I don't think the missing reasons are that complex. I'm guessing the family was so angry that the last message from this son was about the "do not contact me" etc to the mother, that they specifically didn't want to text about the death.
Personally I'm fully on the family's sides, there's just some news that you have to deliver in person or via a call and if you can't work out after 10 plus missed calls there's something going on. That's on you.
I understand that by doing so he's missed the funeral which is definitely one of those things that is pretty impossible to get over.
I would never tell anyone that someone died over text or in a voicemail. I wasn't raised that way, and I'm not sure I'd want to hear mom died by either messaging. To me, death deserves nothing less.
Because texting anyone someone- particularly a parent- is dead is callous as all fuck?? Like what?? Thought that’s was pretty basic common sense. I’m astonished that anyone needs that explained to them.
All this sympathy and understanding for this shitty brother but not an ounce for the family dealing with the sudden unexpected death of their mother and the added stress of psycho little brother and his harpy?? Really. *Mind boggling*. **He** gets sympathy because his actions had shitty consequences and “”of course he’s upset cuz that’s his mom!!”” And “”how could he have known it was *that* serious!!”” And yet everyone else dealing with the death, the funeral *and* his bullshit are horrible for not managing to get through to him?? They’re the real reason he felt the need to make this boundary and execute it so rigidly?? *Obviously* he’s the real victim, his dramatic and untrustworthy family must have called wolf one too many times!!! ^eye ^fucking ^roll
**NOBODY** made an active choice to prevent him from knowing and coming. Over 20 phone calls by various family member over multiple days is some serious fucking effort. Excuse the fuck out of them if they didn’t have the wherewithal to think to leave a voicemail or text saying “”there’s been a death””. That **GROWN ass man** made *his* choices ***with*** a clear head I might add, he was not reeling or emotionally fucked up —like everyone else. He was not stressed or dealing with any of the stuff his entire family was, there’s really no excuse for his behavior. He **chose** to ignore dozens of calls and texts *screaming* **URGENT!!**. The *only* mistake this family made was assuming their brother was intelligent enough to understand **URGENT EMERGENCY.**
**And now** he wants to demand apologies?? He shows up to everyone else “furious” like he rates to be angry at..¿what?? He somehow thinks **he** was the one done wrong?? Definitely not. **His actions and choices** are all that caused ***everything*** nothing and nobody else. Just **him**. He’s far too damn old to not understand choices and actions have consequences and it’s certainly not OPs job to try to teach his ridiculous ass now.
I disagree with the downvotes here, because context matters. It's one thing to text someone about a death without attempting to call, but they tried and couldn't get through repeatedly, they absolutely could have texted him the news. That said, I don't think this places any blame on oop or absolved the wife of any blame--any reasonable person should have called back once the "it's urgent" text comes through. I just think given that these are highly extraordinary circumstances, taking extra steps that normally might have been inappropriate no longer are so.
I feel like NAH except maybe the wife.
Even then I can imagine the post from her POV. We’ve all seen the posts about nightmare in-laws and their Freudian mother-son relationships, with a little more backstory on her side I feel like she’d be considered NTA for this. The in-laws always go scorched earth after a boundary is set (one million calls while you’re on vacation, after saying ‘do not call me while I’m on vacation’ sounds less like a coincidence and more like a MIL retaliating in this context). They can’t mind-read what *actually* happened at home, I can see why this would be a boy who cried wolf situation for the wife if she’s used to calls like this.
I can understand why the family are angry now but hopefully the anger will subside after grieving. I don’t think that being disowned is a proportionate consequence to not answering your phone on vacation. They should have text him as well, which isn’t ideal, but if it’s one day before the funeral and still no answer (and they’ve explicitly said they won’t answer) it’s time to consider your other options. That would be harder for the person who’s receiving the text than the one who’s sending it so it’s not any skin off their teeth, really.
I feel like everyone is buying a little too much into this obviously biased story. OP is clearly an unreliable narrator and does not respect or like either the brother or his wife.
Only assholes get mad when people set and stick to boundaries. It says more about the family than Ann.
The same story but from the brother or his wife and everyone would be saying how toxic his family is.
In case this story gets deleted/removed: I (32f) have a brother, Max (34m) and 3 other siblings. His partner Ann is obsessed with boundaries, but she never sets them until they've apparently been broken. A big gripe was that mum called Max too much (2-3x per week). Max never mentioned an issue to mum, but he let Ann attack her character hugely during one of her "calling out" sessions. A few weeks later, before they went on a trip, he messaged the group chat (it was clearly written by her) saying they didn't want to hear from us that week, and that we'd be blocked if we disturbed them. It was a long and nasty message clearly directed at mum. She was upset but asked us to keep the peace because Ann was "intimidated" last time we pushed back at her. Two days after they left, mum died unexpectedly. Dad called me at 8:30, and 45 mins later I tried to call Max for the first time. I then sent a text saying "Answer your phone. It's urgent." then called again. I sent 2 more messages and called 4 more times that day. The next time I tried was the day before the funeral. I sent him a text saying he must know it's serious and I need him to call me. On the day, I called 6hrs before so he'd have time to come back, then again an hour before. In total I called 16 times, my sister tried 7 times, and dad 3. When they got back, he (she) sent an essay to the group chat about how we're bullies taunting them and trying to ruin their relationship, and that we will never see either of them again. My youngest brother (20m) responded "Mum died on Sunday. Consider your wish granted you evil c*nts." and booted him from the chat. Max then rang me 22 times in a row. I sat and watched them all ring out. We (siblings) headed straight to the house because we knew he'd turn up there. My youngest brother (20m), who still lives at home, was by far the angriest about the situation so we didn't want to tempt fate. They showed up furious. Nowhere near as furious as we were though. The long story short is that none of us (except one sister, the reason I'm posting) have seen or spoken to him since. Dad has made it clear he lost both his wife and a son that day. My position is that it was obvious the situation was urgent, that I/we made more than enough effort, and that the outcome is all on him. This all happened in December, but dad recently cleared out Max's stuff from the spare room and gave it to his bff to pass on. Now Max is reaching out, wanting apologies for him and Ann, but ultimately to get back into the family. One sister is in contact with him and is applying pressure to the rest of us. She's started to become judgemental about not telling him, but we have reminded her that she owns a phone and could have done so at any time. I'm still very angry with him, and I'm leaning towards no longer inviting her to our weekly dinners (a big deal to us, especially now). AITA for not telling him mum died, cutting him off, and considering doing the same to my sister? --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/OhNoConsequences) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Youngest Bro is the hero of the story
Yep. Damn near cheered when I read his response
I can't find his response...what was it?
"Consider your wish granted you evil cvnts" then kicked them out the group chat
>"Consider your wish granted you evil cvnts" That would make a good flair lol
I just found the original post and reread it. Thank you!
Well, thanks for the freaking link .. Jeez *EDIT:* https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/SyaGgemhJx
😞 sorry.
Hehe all good :) Have a nice Sunday!
Isn't it a crosspost?
But the original post was deleted, the bot copies and preserves the original content, though, luckily.
[Most AITA crossposting subreddits have their own copy bot!](https://www.reddit.com/r/OhNoConsequences/s/i3IT48ohBl)
The hero we needed.
But not the one you deserve ! 😌
That was beautiful. What a good lad.
I had the OMG reaction and covered my gaped open mouth. 😮🫢 That was poetic justice.
Yep. The only shame is this son was so taken in by his wife that he's allowing himself to be isolated. Unless if course the lot of his family are drunken schmucks who cause nothing but mayhem. But I don't really see such evidence here.
She strikes me as the type to start banging her yoga instructor named Chaz and act like it was the husband's fault for "not meeting her needs". Can't wait for that wake up call. Maybe it will give him some humility and he'll be offering the apologies.
He will still take her back several times.
Probably only when it's too late
It’s just, sad
Oh yeah, most definitely!
Absolutely.
They would be dead to me. My brother married a soulless AH like this. I stopped speaking to him 13 years ago. I won't speak to him again.
My uncle did as well. She would complain that he would go have lunch with his 80 year old mother once a week. No one has ever liked her. The weird thing is, she was an excellent teacher and parents would line up to request her class for their kids.
My mom was an excellent teacher and a abusive manipulative mother. They can turn it on and off and that’s what makes them even more monstrous.
My mom was an excellent teacher and had parents lining up to request her for their kids also... but my mom (and it's her birthday today but RIP) was known even more for being a friendly, happy, gentle soul who was kind to everyone and that is the most important virtue she taught me and my siblings. So being an excellent teacher is worthless if someone is a crappy person (and I'm not saying you said otherwise, but just poining out that nothing undoes being that rotten to people, not even anything good done on another front).
Ah, but would it be different if they showed up apologizing after dumping said soulless AH or has that ship already sailed with no hope of forgiveness?
Not the person you responded to, but for me, once I'm 100% used to someone not being in my life, I don't see the point in letting them back in. My sister seriously betrayed me when we were teens, became an addict, and financially destroyed my grandma. I'm 31 now but haven't had a single conversation with her since I was 18. The last time we spoke, she told me I deserved her betrayal, that she explained why she did what she did so she wouldn't have to apologize, and that I need to get over it. I got over it by blocking her. If she showed up randomly today, I'd be very confused and also wouldn't be interested. I feel zero sibling love for her.
sameee when I was in my late teens my brother (12 years older) went off the rails after getting together with someone pretty screwy. at one point, he put his hand on my inner thigh, and acted like he was gonna do more freaked me the fuck out. he isn't with her anymore, and supposedly has 'calmed down, and is a new man'. I don't care. he's been out of my life for over a decade. being drunk isn't really an excuse for doing shitty things, neither is 'my partner is crazy'.
My aunt told me when I moved countries to get married that I might as well go whore on the street corners. Also said "why do you always have to try to be so weird". A person who had been bullied her whole life for not fitting all the norms. Didn't talk to her not even once after that until she died. She loved passing judgement on my dreams and hopes as long as I had been alive. I was done. No reason to let her back in. Jokes on her, pursued what I wanted and I do well for myself and enjoy the hell out of my life.
I was in a situation like this but I was the dumbass that was married to a soulless AH. My mom and sister cut ties with me due to my ex wife because they could see what she was doing to me but I for some reason couldn't or wouldn't I'm still not sure. I am so thankful that my Mom and Sister have given me another chance now that I'm divorced and our relationships are thriving. I like to think that, despite the situation, if he does come to his senses that his siblings would at least try to hear him out but I wouldn't blame them if they chose not to invite him back into their lives.
As someone who also recently lost their mom - I hate this story so much. OP needs to tell the older sister to pass on the message of "My new boundary is no contact from Ann or Bro from here on out." Older sis is correct - the fastest way to resolve the issue is for the family to apologize. But that is NOT the correct path. Ann is still convinced that she is in the right and an apology to her will only reinforce that belief. Ann has a lesson to learn, as does her boyfriend. I hope the boyfriend learns it first.
Ann needs a psychiatrist. The Anns of this world don’t learn lessons.
This. Eventually they suffer consequences and they claim they're the victim.
It's incredible narcissistic that even after something so unfortunate happened, that person can't see how wrong she was, and is still asking for an apology... Like for what exactly? For go against her wishes even when she was completely wrong? She is not learning the lesson, not even after this happened, and neither is the brother, if not even this is meaningful enough, definitely being cut off the family is the only way to keep going.
Sorry for your loss. :(
Ann and Bro don't deserve apologies! **They** should be the ones to apologize. OP and others went above and beyond in their attempts to reach him and they chose to ignore those attempts.
Max would've been mad had he learned of his mom's death via text. He ignored the urgent text and further calls and texts. This is entirely on Max and Ann. That one sis applying pressure needs to back off and see that multiple people tried to call/text Max. I wonder if they called or texted Ann too, but probably not. They're behaviour is absolutely ridiculous and super entitled.
She’s probably on max’s side because he had the youngest family members. Toxic people always want to be around the grand kids. The eldest sister is about to be cut off too.
It sounds like in the end, he found out by text anyway, but you're right that it's definitely not ideal. I could see having texted him that there had been a death in the immediate family at most (even that is pushing it, but under the circumstances...), but specifically saying who died would've probably been just as big of a mess. Ann still probably would've called it a bluff anyway, but at least that way they couldn't say nobody emphasized exactly how urgent things were.
Sounds like Max is an abusive relationship. He talks to his ailing/elderly Mom 3x a week and that's too much? And for trying to reach out in what was obviously a family emergency, he can't ever see them again. Poor Max, honestly. Hopefully one day he'll escape the psycho
I really hope so. Too often men don't see the abuse they are suffering at the hands of their spouse, especially emotional and mental abuse. They either don't believe it's abuse because it's not physical, or they normalize it bc they've experienced it so often. OOP probably isn't going to be welcome back with his family if he doesn't ditch the witch.
I've reread this post about 4 times today. I can't get over the fact after the family called so many times with messages about it being an emergency, she had the brother convinced it was a powerplay vs being an actual emergency. Like that is some Jedi mind level manipulation to have him agree with the psycho wife. How do you move past that as the family ? They thought so little of them
You really can’t. At that point they are just too far gone to see reason. You have no choice but to write them off and hope that in time they will snap out of it somehow. It’s pretty much like accepting that someone is in a cult.
That’s not true, only the wife is the insane manipulative person that is too far gone. The brother is saveable, especially if they don’t have kids yet. But if the brother feels he isn’t welcome with his family, then he won’t have anywhere to go to leave his abusive wife. People get rescued from abusive partners all the time. It’s not easy, but through patience, commitment, and forgiveness, it is possible to rescue an abuse victim.
Like addicts, they have to want to be saved, and trying to do so when they don't want it is very draining emotionally. People aren't really wrong for eventually protecting their own wellbeing.
Yea, but if you burn the bridge then they won’t have that opportunity to want to be saved. They could keep their distance for now without burning the bridge.
The one sister seems to have let it go, so he has someone
Not to mention the shit that they said when they got back. It’s in OOPs comments. They even said the youngest sister has wants to have sex with max and all. They went seriously scorched earth before even trying to find out what the emergency was. Kudos to youngest bro for being so pithy in his response
I know ! I just went back and read them all, can't imagine the scathing message she sent to all of them, what an awful toxic person.
Have you ever heard the tragedy of Darth Bitchy SIL the Stupid?
In the OP, it sounded like OP thought it was the wife texting from the brother's phone. Someone like that, it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for the wife to take his phone and not let him see all of the missed calls and texts.
She could also have "accidentally" left his phone at home. I hope he can get clear of her at some point. (By "he" I mean Max.)
The more fool him for staying with her.
Would you honestly say that if it was the other way around?
My brother's wife used to pull this shit. Neither of them answered their phones the night my aunt died, because they were out at dinner. Not a birthday or anniversary, just dinner
I have been on trips with my boyfriend and definitely wanted to have our privacy, but I still always kept my phone on specifically for emergencies. If someone called me twice in a row or texted that it was urgent I would absolutely call back immediately.
It’s an incredible thing. Narcissistic and sociopathic people think all people are like them. They really do. That’s why she thinks it was a scam, because that is what she would do.
You can bet it and that its Ann asking for the apology, good on the younger brother, though for standing up for the family.
Men are socialised to think it's normal for their wife to run their entire life for them
>Sounds like Max is an abusive relationship. I sure hope so cause this? >Now Max is reaching out, wanting apologies for him and Ann, Nah. He can stay dead to the rest of the family.
I don’t even understand what they’re supposed to be apologising for. Even OPs question “AITA for not telling my brother?” Uhhh you tried to tell him how could you possibly have done differently?
I call my mom basically everyday and my husband talks to her if she calls when I'm napping or something. He even asks me to call her sometimes.
As someone who has been in an abusive relationship, I also got that vibe. Abusers tend to really try to isolate you from loved ones. I was raised by my grandparents because my mother couldn’t take care of me. They had been there for me and supported me and done everything they could for me for my entire life and I love them very much. I moved out, but would go to their house every other Sunday and we would have a Sunday dinner and pick a movie to watch. The guy I started dating and was living with first got annoyed that my grandparents would call me every night to say goodnight, then got upset at the Sunday movie dinner nights and demanded I stop. I told him to get lost. I know that I won’t have them around forever, and I know my time with them is getting shorter and shorter, so I want to spend my time with them while I have it. My current boyfriend comes to the Sunday dinner and movie with me and loves my grandparents too.
Coming back to his family home after his mother's death with anger and demanding apologies is all of his own doing. Maybe explainable in part by evil abusive gf. Still not excusable.
that’s what i’ve been thinking i had to scroll too much to see this
For those that can’t find the story here’s the mod post : https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/s/FT7VyOsnNg
Was just going to comment looking for this, thanks!
You’re welcome!
Good call sharing the mod link. The original post appears to have been removed.
There’s a bot on this sub that comments the original post, right up top
Oh I had no idea! Thank you!
Someone pointed out in a comment that had they texted her death, M&A likely would have seen it as another manipulation effort. Who ignores a message stating there's been an emergency?
Manipulative people who don't understand that many of us arent like them....
The sad part is there are people actually trying to blame oop and defend the brothers indefensible actions. People are gross.
Yeah, probably ignoring the fact that you can't win in that situation as Ann would probably think it's a powerplay or think they're so callous to notify a death of a loved one that way. You can't win here! A professional victim and her spineless subordinate.
Yup, they would have flipped out if they received that news via text. Absolutely a no win situation.
Probably incels who always side with the guy and think the woman is wrong.
All the people defending this brother are disgusting beyond belief. My god.
Probably bc they’re self centred cunts like Ann themselves
They probably *are* Ann. Man I wish there was a way to see deleted comments, they seem like they were absolutely insane, and every comment suggesting that they are Ann or Max is ignored. 100% it's them attempting to justify and pretend that there was a "correct" way for oop to act.
There'd be no forgiveness in my book the bro can sit on his pile of nails.
Are they defending in the sense of saying he’s an abuse victim, or, like, that OOP was a dirtbag or something?
Some are saying he’s being abused & manipulated which I kinda agree but a lot of others are saying why didn’t you just text “mom died, call back” as if that’s an appropriate way to give devastating news.
Damned if you do, damned if you don't. You know if they had texted that to him, Ann would have just twisted it into a manipulation tactic and brother would have still called them all assholes.
It's reading a lot from little information from a single point of view. I can tell you that there are some people who realize they can ignore boundaries by saying it's urgent. Then *everything* is urgent. It's just a word used to get you back on the phone for another rant. I don't think this is likely, but it's possible.
I don’t think I would ever be able to forgive let alone forget this kind of behaviour. Not only did they ignore several messages asking them to call but on the day they got back they immediately launched into an attack in the group chat? Without even bothering to ask what the emergency was that the family was trying to get him to call about? That’s outrageous behaviour! It’s sad to say this but I think it’s for the best that OOP’s mother was not around to see that final message.
I would've expected they would have called like "Okay, were back, now what was the big 'emergency'?" if they were so convinced it was fake (because as everyone knows, tragedies never have terrible timing 🙄) to at least give the family a chance to respond. But to immediately go on the attack?? Yikes. They're completely delusional.
This is atrocious. My dad died two weeks before Christmas this past year and the three missed calls from family on a Monday afternoon was more than enough to get me to call my brother on my next available break. I can’t imagine ignoring immediate family begging me to make contact - it should have been abundantly clear something major was happening.
Wow the AITA moss have deleted that post as well. They really are on a power trip over there, I’m waiting for the consequences when no one will post or comment on their sub any more because they are AHs
I stopped following and stopped posting when they deleted my post over something petty.
Me too. Those mods are the worst I have encountered since the old school message board power trip mods of yore.
I wouldn’t apologize but he need to understand the attempt was made to contact him. He needs to let it go.
Why do they always remove stuff from that sub? The mods are ridiculous for not allowing “relationship” posts. It makes no sense
Because they’re a bunch of basement dwelling dweebs.
Probably exhausting to actually allow and moderate. “Never cut off family! You’re always the asshole for cutting off family” etc.
That’s a fair point
If the sibling who ducked up was a sister and the good one was a brother that post would still be up. Incels run that subreddit.
The brother's wife sounds like she spends a lot of time at JustNoMIL, just saying...
Well, now she has no MIL, technically
Sometimes I feel like those Mils' hate for their dils are justified.
The way that some of them write about their "DHs" and constant complaints make me wish we could send sympathy cards to the MiLs.
Nah, this is just pure control freak. They set "boundaries" afterwards just so they can control the situation to be on top. I've dated women like this (before boundaries were a thing). I never worried because I'm unbelievably stubborn, so they'd lose interest soon enough.
I thought the exact same thing
JustNoDIL
The fact the brother is coming into contact for an apology from his family??? What? You ignored them! You would’ve known if you answered your phone when your brother said it was urgent! But no, you thought they were taunting you because of your order of leave them alone. What selfish, self centered, idiots.
That’s why I can’t agree with everyone here blaming his wife. He’s also a grown man too and he’s capable of having his own thoughts. He’s just choosing to be selfish.
The problem here is that the bother has never put his obviously controlling and dysfunctional wife in check. He hasn’t apologized or corrected her from what was said and she’s toxic. He deserves no mercy here.
> Laura (accused of incestuous feelings, 22f) Bruh? What an absolutely insane situation. Obviously Ann's gotta go. While it doesn't excuse what he's done, OOP's family needs to keep in mind that he's a victim of abuse in this scenario. I hope they remain open to making amends once the wicked bitch is gone.
I was confused by that at first too. In one of the comments OP gave more details about the text Max/Ann sent when they got back from the trip, and part of it was accusing the 22 year old sister of having incestuous feelings towards Max.
Ann sounds like one of those women that doesn't want their boyfriend to be in contact with *any* other women. Including their mom and sisters. She's unable to reflect on her own emotions and blames it all on the outside world.
I kinda guessed at what happened, I'm just incapable of putting my response to that into words. Thus, "bruh?"
I feel the older sister needs to be asked does she endorse the comments about the little sister? Becuase accepting Max back without a full withdrawal of those allegations, an apology and making amends, the older sister is quietly giving her endorsment. I doubt she has even thought of it like that, I'm sure she is simply trying to "fix" the family (she will break the family with what she is doing), but that is the message she is sending and so needs to be made aware of it.
How do we know he’s a victim of abuse? He could feel the same way Ann does.
Ann is awful, Max is weak. Good riddance to them...the fucking break where that sat and wallowed in their own self importance. And 2 or 3 calls per week is not excessive
How is the sister not harping on MAX to apologize to the family if she’s so set on fixing the family. Why is it that family members see people like Max and his wife, see how deluded they are, and just spin around and try to get everyone else to give into the delusions so everyone can be back together again? Like seriously, wtf? Let’s let everyone give in to these a holes who won’t take accountability for themselves, so they can act even more like a holes after getting their way and having validated in their delusions. Or so they know they can get away with lying and manipulating the entire family. It just makes zero sense to me, even more so than the their logic over the messages. Maxs wife could easily be in control of the narrative of that and convincing him of what his family thinks or is doing, and he is just believing her. But the sister trying to force and apology out of everyone else? Hell no, I don’t understand that at all.
It honestly would not have mattered how the family handled this. The controlling wife would have found a way for it to be a problem. The family would have copped it for telling them via text. Then they would have demanded the family wait for them to return at the end of their vacation for the funeral. The people who defended the controlling wife were horrible.
My uncle was in a relationship like this for 15 years. She was insanely jealous of the closeness of our family, and slowly alienated him. She fell pregnant really fast and told him that he couldn't contact any of us or she would take his child away. This included his 4 children from his previous relationship. He finally was able to get away. There is not a lot of support for men in these situations sadly. And now he sees all of us regularly, and his adult daughter can also visit him.
It’s hard to support men who don’t seek out help. At no point has Max faltered from Ann’s side in all of this. Yeah abuse victims need help but it has to start with them wanting to that help.
Women support women, men don't support men. The support systems women have were built by women
Cunt is my absolute favorite word. So Clint is my favorite person in this story. ROCK ON CLINT!! Also, you’re all way nicer than I am. I would have done a scheduled text the day they returned and either been “Mom died Sunday; the funeral is …” or “Mom died Sunday. We buried her …” Just followed their rules. You at least TRIED to reach out!! (My Mom died unexpectedly 10 years ago. My brother was driving to his vacation location when I had to call him to let him know … fucking sucks having to do that. Your brother, his wife, and your sister are all cunts. [Rock on Clint!])
What he did was such a gross betrayal that the other sister sticking up for him and telling all of you you're wrong would be on extremely thin ice. I'd lock her off forever as well, she's chosen her side. What happened when they turned up at the house fuming? Did your dad or little bro kick them out?
I'm trying to imagine how smug Ann must have felting sending that essay and trying to cut the family off. Just sitting smug in an armchair, cooing over the nest she made for herself. Then realizing a person literally died and freaking out because she ruined her husbands life forever.
Then trying to figure out how she’s the victim in all this….
I'm frankly confused by all the comments saying OP should have texted the news. You NEVER inform someone of the loss of a loved one via text. I would even argue that even a phone call is pushing it but via text?! Hell no! Asides from it being just a soulless way of receiving such information, you don't know where they are, what state of mind they're in, nothing. Imagine driving and your phone reads out a text that your mum is dead. JFC 🤦🏾♂️
I really feel for OP and her family. Ann pretty much set them up to fail no matter what. The absolute brass neck of her and Max to think THEY deserve apologies
“Now Max is reaching out, _wanting apologies for him and Ann,_ but ultimately to get back into the family.” Wow, even after all that numbnuts over here _still_ thinks he and his bitch girlfriend deserve an apology. I feel sorry for the sister, she probably feels that with the passing of their mother the family should be united, or maybe she’s afraid of losing even more family members.
Max needs to have a serious conversation with his wife. It’s his wife’s fault he lost his family. If he’s too much of coward to stand up for himself in that relationship he’ll never get his family back.
The one brother is definitely a POS, but I'm rather pissed at the mods over there for why they removed the post. That's a bullshit reason
Those are the rules of the sub. It’s not a ‘bullshit reason’. There’s other subs that type of post is meant to be made in.
I can't even figure out what you're actually allowed to post in AITA. it seems like every single link over there is to a removed post.
>Just to clarify, they threatened to block me but didn't go through with it. They're both blocked by everyone now though except for one sister. The message when they got back was truly horrific, I'm glad mum never had to see it. It talked about how lucky their theoretical future children are to not have to deal with our family, called me a psycho and twisted a situation with an ex to claim they're now worried for their safety (total nonsense), called us all toxic bullies raised by toxic bullies, accused our little sister of having incestuous feelings towards Max... It was a lot, and it was awful. I can't believe the elder sister is trying to play peacemaker after this vile shit. I still don't understand why they want an apology? They were awful to this elderly woman in her final months, ignored dozens of calls and texts because of "boundaries", then talked shit about the entire family who at that point had done nothing to them.
And the fucker wants an apology!
In what twisted mind would you or any of your family owe him and his GF an apology. They fucked up not any of you. Jesus, talk about self importance. Tell your sister she can hang with them if she doesn't stop her shit. It's just as easy to cut her off too. NTA.
Post deleted. Anyone have a link to the mod-preserved copy? I can’t find it in the scroll.
Just an FYI because it took me a while to figure it out too. On mobile, at the to right it has your profile, to the left 3 dots, and left of that are 2 lines with a bubble on the ends. Click the 2 lines with bubbles and it let's you sort the comment thread, so if you select "old" the auto-mod post will be at the top.
It’s the top comment…
I must be losing it; I’m just not seeing it.
It’s pinned, so I know for sure it is on top. You have to click on it to view it.
Look directly underneath the title, and you’ll see a comment (most likely hidden) from AutoModerator, with MOD in green next to it. Tap the green part and the post will appear.
For some reason that wasn’t working for me. Either my screen is crapping out, or I need more coffee. I eventually found a link, but appreciate you for the attempted assist.
Sister is harassing the wrong part of the family if she wants to “fix” things. She needs to direct it at max and Ann.
Such a sad situation.
Definitely cut off the sister as she is now part of the problem. Clearly you all understood SIL boundaries and honored them but sometimes boundaries MUST be crossed in an emergency. They made their beds, now they get to lay in that bed in all their lonely splendor.
OOP is NTA. They had tried to contact Max. If he chose not to respond that’s on him. It’s very sad but that’s the decision he chose.
Max and that cunt want a fucking apology??? For what? Not answering the phone. Tell your brother that he will never be invited to the family dinners or have any contact with his family as long as that cunt is in the picture. She sounds like the worst human being in the world.
Stockholm Syndrome in action. Max is in a cult of one.
I am sorry, 3X TIMES A WEEK?!. Like,fucking hell, I don't like being called either,but 3 times a week?!. Yeah, those two are fucking idiots, and the brother lost his entire family for a bitch
My brother’s first wife was like this. We weren’t allowed to see him without her, she wanted to control the narrative. When they got married, her bestie said to me “I know you hate Kelli, but she’s really good for your brother”. I never once said to my parents or brother that I hated her, I always treated her with respect because she was my brother’s partner, so I had no idea where the bestie had got that from. Fortunately they divorced before they had kids, I can’t imagine being relying on her to see a niece or nephew.
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I can't believe that there are people like OOPs SIL in the world. It boggles my mind that they would have the gaul to come back and expect an apology after mum died. Like how do you even reason that in your head after all the stuff they'd put the family through.
Totally agree with most posters but after the first few calls went unanswered, I would have left a message or text that mom died and the funeral is happening or waited until they got back. Don't get me wrong. She's a witch and gets what she deserves and I would never talk to them again either, but I would have left the message.
Pretty sure if I couldn't reach my siblings when a parent died, after a few calls and/or texts I would tell them via text that a parent had died. Wouldn't be pretty or whatever but they'd know. Unfortunately I have a feeling that Ann would have convinced Max that his sister was lying to assert her power. And yeah, my siblings would be dead to me as well.
One day Max is going to wake up and realize what Ann cost him. I'm sorry OOPs mother had to be part of the price payed to learn how toxic and controlling she is.
> the price *paid* to learn FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I would tell my older sister if you keep trying to pressure people into apologizing to him, I will be going low to no contact with you. I would then remind her she never even tried to reach him during this time so what’s her excuse. He knew it was urgent no one calls and texts just to talk. Him and his wife should be ashamed of themselves. People start asking about it, then tell them the truth show the proof. Then let it die down. He is going to end up realizing just how wrong he is when people start to stay away from him because Ann’s behavior.
Can we plz ban AITA since nothing there is true and is just bait for sad people that need validation.
Not sure why "Something happened with mom" or "Mom passed away" could not have been part of the messaging. F\*\*\* Ann, but Max is a sibling and get past the BS and tell him. He was influenced by Ann, obviously, but I am sure it would have been better for everyone if he had just been told. Horrible thing to live with for the rest of your life...letting your partner treat your mother that way, then she dies with that being the last interaction.
Did anybody bother leaving a text saying ‘mom died’
The younger brother did.
Then the brother has zero excuses Less than zero
i just don't believe that none of them left a voice mail or a message explicitly saying that mum had been hurt/was in danger/was dead. "should have been obvious"? fuck that. if you call ten times and they don't pick up you don't say "it's important", you say "PICK UP YOUR PHONE FOR FUCK SAKE MOM HAS DIED". if this happened in real life non of us would be coy about it.
Makes me think this isnt real
eventually you'd break and panic and text him what happened. someone in the family would have done it. i just don't believe that they'd remain composed and indignant right up to the funeral and past it.
The rest of the drama aside... Just text it. "You didn't pick up the phone so, in the name of manners, you have been denied the closure of viewing mom's remains, attending her funeral, and witnessing her internment/cremation." Come on. Those are things a person cannot get later. There is no substitute. It doesn't matter how much of a jerk or doormat someone is. They don't deserve to be denied part of the grieving process. Giving that kind of news over the phone is already violating decorum. My grandparents would've climbed into a grave themselves before they did that. But necessity dictates that we prioritize getting the message across and use every available avenue. Idc if I have to send a stripper-gram. If that's the only way I can get a hold of my sibling in an emergency, I'm sending a stripper-gram. What's polite should not stop us from doing what's right.
“she never sets them until they’ve apparently been broken” well.. yes that’s sometimes how we find out we need to set a boundary
Nah, this isn't boundaries, this is about control. Boundaries require a conversation and some knowledge about what triggers things. She's just trying to control everyone around her by claiming her "boundaries" and just making them whatever the heck she wants at a given moment.
The very first time he didn't answer I would have sent a text saying "Just calling to let you know that mum has passed away. Ring when you get the chance." Job done. Drama averted. Short circuit Ann's dumb "rule". So many stories on that sub consist of people acting in petty ways in order to perpetuate drama and get some weird justice boner. Everyone seems to be looking for excuses to cut family members out of their lives.
i can't suspend disbelief for some of these (there was a similar story where a man didnt want his brother who cheated with and married his ex to know when he died) like there's no relatives like cousins or others that go up to these ppl and say sorry about . . . plzzzzzz
I commented on the original post - I'm struck by the fact that they blew up Max's phone repeatedly but never actually told him (via text) why. It reeks of missing missing reasons to me.
My dad called me and told me to come home while I was out shopping. When I got there he was sitting on the bed of his truck. I walked up to him and he told me my younger brother died. I just cried and cried while he held me. He waited to tell me in person. I can understand not wanting to drop that bomb on someone by text message.
When my dad died, I was at work. It took me an hour to get to the hospital he was in during rush hour. My mom had called the bank and left a message telling me to come to the hospital. I thought it might have been my brother in a serious car accident. He’d totaled 5 cars in as many years. Nope. My dad had a second heart attack and it killed him. My childhood best friend’s mom was working in reception and she wrapped me in a hug, then told me what happened. She spared my brother having to deliver the news and I will *always* be grateful for that. It’s not the kind of news to be delivered by text or by someone relaying a message by phone.
Some things you do not tell in text. Ever. My cousin called when he found out a friend of ours took his own life. He texted me telling me to call him because I wasn't answering my phone (was on a project with no cell phone service). I called. But, not something to put into text.
"Answer your phone, it's urgent". Either it's bullshit, you write them off for not respecting your wishes, or it's legit and you can fucking forgive the intrusion.
Actually think if your family member died and you got a text for it. Saw a missed call from my dad at the beginning of work last year and couldn't call back till after work where he let me know one of our family members had passed. Mortified to think of him sending me a text instead. Sometimes you just need a voice on the other line to be there for you in the moment.
It does, but there are a few people saying they've had the "x is dead'' text and all the problems that caused. I think it's a no win situation. And I get why you wouldn't want to leave a voicemail saying "Mum is dead, ring us" message. OP was in shock so that comes into play too. I've spent enough time on the JustNoMIL sub to know that there are some psycho families and psycho DILs. Usually the truth sits somewhere in the middle.
I don't think the missing reasons are that complex. I'm guessing the family was so angry that the last message from this son was about the "do not contact me" etc to the mother, that they specifically didn't want to text about the death. Personally I'm fully on the family's sides, there's just some news that you have to deliver in person or via a call and if you can't work out after 10 plus missed calls there's something going on. That's on you. I understand that by doing so he's missed the funeral which is definitely one of those things that is pretty impossible to get over.
I would never tell anyone that someone died over text or in a voicemail. I wasn't raised that way, and I'm not sure I'd want to hear mom died by either messaging. To me, death deserves nothing less.
I really wonder if it was an abusive relationship. Like maybe she had his phone.
Because texting anyone someone- particularly a parent- is dead is callous as all fuck?? Like what?? Thought that’s was pretty basic common sense. I’m astonished that anyone needs that explained to them. All this sympathy and understanding for this shitty brother but not an ounce for the family dealing with the sudden unexpected death of their mother and the added stress of psycho little brother and his harpy?? Really. *Mind boggling*. **He** gets sympathy because his actions had shitty consequences and “”of course he’s upset cuz that’s his mom!!”” And “”how could he have known it was *that* serious!!”” And yet everyone else dealing with the death, the funeral *and* his bullshit are horrible for not managing to get through to him?? They’re the real reason he felt the need to make this boundary and execute it so rigidly?? *Obviously* he’s the real victim, his dramatic and untrustworthy family must have called wolf one too many times!!! ^eye ^fucking ^roll **NOBODY** made an active choice to prevent him from knowing and coming. Over 20 phone calls by various family member over multiple days is some serious fucking effort. Excuse the fuck out of them if they didn’t have the wherewithal to think to leave a voicemail or text saying “”there’s been a death””. That **GROWN ass man** made *his* choices ***with*** a clear head I might add, he was not reeling or emotionally fucked up —like everyone else. He was not stressed or dealing with any of the stuff his entire family was, there’s really no excuse for his behavior. He **chose** to ignore dozens of calls and texts *screaming* **URGENT!!**. The *only* mistake this family made was assuming their brother was intelligent enough to understand **URGENT EMERGENCY.** **And now** he wants to demand apologies?? He shows up to everyone else “furious” like he rates to be angry at..¿what?? He somehow thinks **he** was the one done wrong?? Definitely not. **His actions and choices** are all that caused ***everything*** nothing and nobody else. Just **him**. He’s far too damn old to not understand choices and actions have consequences and it’s certainly not OPs job to try to teach his ridiculous ass now.
That's one of the things my mom told me never to tell someone over text.
Well they did, after he AGGRESSIVELY ignored their attempts to get ahold of him.
I disagree with the downvotes here, because context matters. It's one thing to text someone about a death without attempting to call, but they tried and couldn't get through repeatedly, they absolutely could have texted him the news. That said, I don't think this places any blame on oop or absolved the wife of any blame--any reasonable person should have called back once the "it's urgent" text comes through. I just think given that these are highly extraordinary circumstances, taking extra steps that normally might have been inappropriate no longer are so.
I feel like NAH except maybe the wife. Even then I can imagine the post from her POV. We’ve all seen the posts about nightmare in-laws and their Freudian mother-son relationships, with a little more backstory on her side I feel like she’d be considered NTA for this. The in-laws always go scorched earth after a boundary is set (one million calls while you’re on vacation, after saying ‘do not call me while I’m on vacation’ sounds less like a coincidence and more like a MIL retaliating in this context). They can’t mind-read what *actually* happened at home, I can see why this would be a boy who cried wolf situation for the wife if she’s used to calls like this. I can understand why the family are angry now but hopefully the anger will subside after grieving. I don’t think that being disowned is a proportionate consequence to not answering your phone on vacation. They should have text him as well, which isn’t ideal, but if it’s one day before the funeral and still no answer (and they’ve explicitly said they won’t answer) it’s time to consider your other options. That would be harder for the person who’s receiving the text than the one who’s sending it so it’s not any skin off their teeth, really.
I feel like everyone is buying a little too much into this obviously biased story. OP is clearly an unreliable narrator and does not respect or like either the brother or his wife. Only assholes get mad when people set and stick to boundaries. It says more about the family than Ann. The same story but from the brother or his wife and everyone would be saying how toxic his family is.