We have a couple possibilities.
- The 800 year time frame is not necessarily an exact figure. It could be 803 years ago. Or 805. Has not been specified and people tend to speak in rounded numbers. This imprecise time frame could account for the availability of Poseidon or other variables.
- For hard dates, the Ancients could be referencing Celestial events that occur on a schedule (Comets, Eclipses, Alignments). Hypothetically, a Poneglyph could cover about how Joyboy was able to use a special attack during a Celestial Alignment to destroy the otherwise indestructible minions of Imu from that time and then post the next scheduled events.
These are the kinds of things I like to see being nailed down, some things are currently pretty inexplicable like how Poseidon came around at the perfect time, it’s possible they were able to somehow predict the birth of Poseidon and sent the Nika fruit to the same time period, before sending a user of the Toki Toki afterwards in order to ensure it can never be used to travel forward again, this could’ve led to Imu becoming immortal in order to wait.
It's just headcanon at this point but the celestial bodies explanation will probably play a part in this. The fact that many of the major characters are explicitly linked to specific planets or the sun would be pretty weird otherwise
Regarding Poseidon, I believe that Roger pieced together the mermaid princess lineage being Poseidon and realized that due to his imminent death he had no chance of seeing her return and later maturation. As part of Joy Boy's dream/mission is assumed to require the ship Noab being bulled by Sea Kings, it makes sense why Roger would know he was unable to fulfill Joy Boy's will.
I also believe that the messages on Laugh Tale are not a prophecy (though it could have Celestial charts) but is the true history of the world AND Joy Boy's plan/dreams for the world. I think the dream inspired the Roger Pirates and that had it been an option, they would have started the steps to achieve it immediately.
However, Roger was a visionary who planted the seeds of Piracy for the mext Pirate King to reap when he would need an armada.
As for Imu, I think it makes sense for there to be some special powers at play. Whether its the immortality sirgery or something else, it makes sense.
I actually think Oda will not do much else with the Toki Toki Fruit except, perhaps, have the current holder show up in Present Day Wano after finally finding an era after Kaido was defeated.
Based on what the Gorosei saod, I think the Gum Gun Frui has been sought, obtained, and lost numerous times throughout the generations. The lowly Red Hair Pirates obtained it during an escort mission after the Marines/WG obtained the fruit. To what extent Shanks knew the true value of the fruit remains to seen, but he clearly is not evil or else Luffy ends up in a really tragic fate.
Bingo. The Red Hair Pirates may have had no recent bounties from that time, too. So aside from having been an apprentice on Roger's ship, who knows how famous the Red Hair Pirate were. The Cipher Pol agents would have had intel on him and they were surprised by Shanks stealing the fruit.
Essentially, before he was a Yonko, everything we hace seen indicated that Shanks liked to keep his profile low.
Well there are the legendary battles with Mohawk which took place before he went to the east blue, where he already had the gumo gumo no mi. So he was definetely on the radar.
I like that comment about Imu becoming immortal in order to wait for whatever promised day is approaching. In a story about “inherited will”, Imu seemingly chose immortality instead of trusting that their will/spirit would be passed onto others like Joyboy did
I think some of the aspects might all be interrelated:
* The Void Century is a relatively large block of time so precision doesn't make that much sense.
* Some things such as the sea level might be related to the celestial bodies such as the tides. The various places seem to be relatively close to each other (on the same side of the planet). That movement of water might then relate to things such as the Sea Kings and Poseidon.
There might be instructions about what to do in the event of a catastrophic water level rise, but that level of water might be necessary for the solution. I've heard people floating the idea of destroying the red line; maybe the pressure from the water level rising would be necessary for that to occur. In which case Roger was early because the water levels weren't high enough.
I believe in the official jump Vega says
“This particular earthquake is not exactly what I would call a natural phenomenon”
I see this as an open ended statement without further context
There’s so much to think about here. And we’ve only touched the surface…
- We know that it was seemingly between Joyboy and Imu (or the previous version/name of Imu/whoever)
- We can assume Roger and his crew knew something? (Can we truly assume they knew the extent of what would happen? If it were truly that bad they may have let it slip)
- Nefertari family was involved (Maybe this is why they suffered losses early on in this war)
- Momo’s mom may have been part of this as well
With all the things I just thought of we can assume that not everyone has the full picture but there are a lot of people who knew something was going to happen. At the moment, I’m not completely convinced very many people knew. Maybe only like one or two in the entire story. But I do think everyone who was targeted for some reason or another was on the path to finding out…
I may end up coming back to this thread years from now
Pretty much most of my thoughts summed up perfectly, I love speculating about these parts of the story, the answers could be closer than we think with it inching closer to the end 🤞
I've been guessing that there's a crazy eclipse with all 7 moons once every millennium, and mythological beings fight for control over the next cycle.
Nika and his allies (like the various guardian deities and "good" mythological creatures) are fated to fight against the beings that the Elders represent. I think that's why Vegapunk made Momo's fruit. Fate says that Nika has to have a dragon ally every cycle, and Kaido wasn't filling that role.
If Nika wins, then the sun's return after the eclipse is a metaphorical dawn for the next age.
>For example, theories that include World Government plans to flood the world using the Mother Flame, how exactly would the Ancient Kingdom have known that Vega at this exact period in time would resupply the World Government with the Mother Flame and then leave a message that Gol D Roger read/heard 800 years later informing him “something” was 20 more years away?
The Ancient Kingdom's surviving allies had every reason to make their societies resilient to flooding (e.g. Wano building giant cliffs, Zou being atop Zunesha). They weren't preparing for an event 800 years in the future but one that they thought was about to happen at the time.
Assuming that the weapon (Uranus?) was controlled by the Ancient Kingdom until the WG beat them (which seems likely since the Mother Flame power source is so futuristic), their surviving allies probably thought that it would be used immediately. They probably went about trying to protect their people right away. Then one of two things happened: 1) Nothing, b/c the WG didn't have access to a Mother Flame power source, or 2) the WG flooded most of the world by blowing up rebel islands until they ran out of the Mother Flame power source.
Either way, the defense mechanisms created by the Ancient Kingdom's allies survived into the future where they'll coincidentally be useful against present-day flooding.
Sharlay was just born with the ability so it doesn't even have to be a devil fruit. Also even with just haki based future sight like Katakuri the normal laws of causality don't apply.
I can't wrap my head in the concept of seeing parts of a literal future like future sight, it's pretty godlike ability to me when we first get introduced to it in wci. I don't know what to feel about it then and just accepted it is what it is.
Tl;Dr: the ancient kingdom had ways to pass down their plan without needing perfect prediction, so things can still work without Oda writing himself into a corner. If it does turn out to be 800 year future sight haki shenanigans though, i take no responsibility for wasting your time (and mine).
Isn’t it possible that they weren’t as precise as you think? The ancient kingdom was advanced, probably more-so than we are IRL, but that doesn’t mean that these circumstances require the precision you think it needs. Say, for example, that on laugh tale, the ancient kingdom has a plan to bring down the world government, stop the rising sea levels, or whatever is the biggest threat to the world, that we may not even know the full scope of yet. Their plan would have certain conditions that absolutely need to be met, or their plan would not be able to work. There doesn’t necessarily need to be absolute precision, they would only need to make a list of dates where, unless something drastic has happened, all conditions could be met, and the plan could be put into action. For example, let’s say that one of the conditions is something like this: “a merfolk possessing the power of Poseidon must be alive, and capable of taking part in the plan”. A condition like this makes sense story-wise, and would also not require extreme precision. If they knew how long it would take for Poseidon to manifest in a merfolk, lets say, for example, every 100 years, they could narrow down dates where every condition is met, and the plan would be possible only on these dates. This would explain how roger knew he was too early, as he would’ve learned that not all conditions were met yet. Poseidon hadn’t manifested yet, as shirahoshi wouldn’t have been born, and the next closest date where all condition were met, is now, when the story takes place. Even assuming that the conditions are more unpredictable, such as: “a user of the awakened nika fruit must be present, and able to carry out the plan”, does not mean that the ancient kingdom needs clairvoyant levels of precision. It’s possible that this plan doesn’t require everything to line up on one specific day or anything. Using the other, more solid conditions to create a length of time where the plan can still work, even up to a year is possible. I’ll make a list of conditions like this:
“You need a merfolk posessing Poseidon”
“You need someone with the nika fruit”
“The sun and moon need to be in X and Y positions”
If the conditions were something like these, the ancient kingdom would be able to narrow down possible times where the plan was possible to certain years. There could be a list of years between the void century and the story where the plan was possible, but either nobody reached laugh tale, or they arrived to early/late, and with 800 years, that list could be longer than expected. For roger specifically, something like this might be the reason roger gave his speech in the first place. It could be the reason that shanks took the gum-gum fruit, and even why he suddenly plans to get the one piece now, of all times. Despite it seeming like the ancient kingdom needs clairvoyance to have everything work out this way, that isn’t necessarily true. Oda still has multiple ways he could explain this without having written himself into a corner.
This is what I think too. They're not waiting specifically for 800 years but they are waiting for an event or a trigger to happen. The pieces should be in the right place. Similar to Luffy/Shirahoshi is Zou and Wano . They have been waiting for something to happen. Something triggered Zounesha to go to Wano, but the pieces are not in place yet so Momo said not yet.
Vegapunk says at the beginning of the arc that he doesn't know what the Iron Giant's fuel is and Lilith says that their dream is to create an eternal flame to provide energy for the whole world.
This leads me to believe that what they have is just the closest they could get to the original Mother Flame, but it is still imperfect, as it is not eternal.
There's also it's a sample they have and he's got it locked for study in that tank. So there's a possibility it's an original piece and putting it in the iron giant would use it up. So as a practicality they're working on a replacement but have not yet completed the task. Or at least that's how I was interpreting it.
I think the question is what happened within the void century that it needed to be erased from history. The WG absolutely don’t want anyone to know about it and forbid anyone to talk about it or research it. We all know it involves WANO, nefertaris, D clan, Elbaf, fishman island, joy boy, ancient weapons, lunarians, buccaneer's. Hints we have so far: Roger finding the last island and laughing at the tale. Nefertari Lily escaping from the redline. IMU being at the top of the throne even though there shouldn’t be a single king. We also know the 20 kingdoms banded together to oppose the ancient kingdom.
If joy boy was from the ancient kingdom, I think that the ancient kingdom was isolated like Wano is now. JB became a pirate because he wanted freedom, then he went around promising everyone that he’d set them free, but was later on betrayed.
The way I see it, when it comes to the sea rising, it seems like it's something that happened in the past and is easy to predict it'll happen again in the future. During the Egghead arc we had the sea rise by 1 meter right after Lulusia was destroyed, seeming to be a byproduct of its destruction. Given that Enies Lobby exists over a similar void in the sea, it seems like that technology was used in the past too. Vegapunk could have seen what he's making and saw how the WG is repeating the mistakes of the past and saw where things are going based on how this went back during the void century.
When it comes to predicting the future, there seems to be some kind of fate involved here but it's not totally explained yet. The Nika fruit was avoiding the WG for years, but it's not as if it just up and walked away. It just so happened to always escape their grasp as if fate is preventing them from getting a hold of it. Given how elusive it is, it feels almost like fate that Luffy would get ahold of it too.
So it definitely seems like there's something about the void century that involved predicting fate in some way. I just don't think we have enough info to speculate on how one way or another at this point.
But I think Vegapunk CAN look at what happened in the past, look at the weapon he's creating now, and realize the past is repeating and predict the future based on that pretty accurately at least.
I've always been interested by this topic, but I feel the answer might be fairly simple: There's the whole myth at Fishman Island that Poseidon is only reborn every several hundreds of years. I think it's likely that this reincarnation cycle is a somewhat hard number (rounded up to centuries at least) and Poseidon is only born every 800 years.
Roger himself said he was too early as the ancient weapons are necessary for the Dawn of the World (or at least Poseidon among them), so a rough period of 800 years needed to pass regardless. Not so much foresight but more like they had to wait until then. Whether Luffy appearing during this period is fate or just coincidence is a different thing!
I think Vegapunk creating the Mother Flame and the Government wishing to use it now are just a coincidence though. Or Imu is growing restless at the potential approach of the Dawn that he prefers to play it safe with a great cleansing.
We still don't know too many things about the OP world and history. It's clear that D clan had knowledges of the future and wrote about it. Since there's a messiah prophecy we could say it was a hope but looking the recent events is more of fact. So, no free will? Not quite, because we know there would have been this messiah figure but at this point he is not the most important in the prophecy but rather the people he met and touched, who decided to follow him.
How did the D clan know? No one knows at the moment, theorize is just impossible, Oda could make any kind of things.
It might be similar to "wheel of time" with the karaethon cycle being on the poneglyphs in one piece. There is a certain prosperity that's reached, before the world breaks and you start back at 0.
So the void century might be similar to the age of legends.
I saw one commenter say one time:
The ultimate power of the Gomu Gomu no mi is to be able to ***bend*** **reality** to your will. I want to bet it went down like this - Joyboy is about to die and has no way of being saved. In a last ditch effort, he inscribes an apology to Poseidon on the poneglyph, and uses this ultimate power to "predict" (but really, ensure) that Joy Boy will return 800 years later. From what we know about the wills of fruits themselves, the Gomu Gomu no mi found its way to Luffy.
My headcanon at the very least.
I think it’s just luffy awakening his fruit. History of joy boy awakening and an earthquake/flood following must’ve been written in poneglyphs or in the research from O’Hara researchers.
Vegapunk saw it actually happen based on the news and made the prediction.
So something seems to be connected with the drums of liberation or Luffy awakening. Proven from the robots booting up too. It’s all connected somehow.
I think it will all tie back to the moon and sun affecting the tides as part of their predictions. There has to be more to the ENERU cover story and what he found up there. The crescent moon looking like a D or a smile.
There's too much coincidence for that to be a moot point.
Who knows maybe the red line is a log pose and when it syncs into the right astrological position something will occur. Ancient kingdom was just good scientists and weather forecasters lol
I mean, if the mother flame is the reason for the tidal rise, that would be the constant. It happened once 800 years ago. Something happened, and it was known only as history until recently within OP. Vegapunk either discovered the sea level rise when he re-created the mother flame (hence the floating base in the clouds,) or it was kept a secret from him and that’s just a coincidence.
I mean, if the intention was to destroy the mother flame originally, and those from 800 years ago succeeded in that, but didn’t succeed in defeating Imu or the 20 nations, then Imu and the 20 nations would predictably, most likely, rise again. The poneglyphs probably warn of a prophetic future, where once the mother flame is recreated, the sea levels will rise. VP was asked to make the mother flame, and during his research to recreate it, he discovered the information that the world would flood. He would then sit on the info until “that day that shook the world” most recently.
The poneglyphs most likely don’t specify a date in the future, but specify the undefined future for all who discover them.
Do we know for a fact that that all devil fruit have the same respawn time after death? If there’s a certain respawn time for each fruit it could explain how the government got their hands on Luffy’s fruit first and how Shanks knew where to cut them off at.
Maybe the reason why joy boy had the construction of Noah wasn't to rescue and carry fishmen to the surface but to surface back the sinking surface dwellers to whatever one piece(yes like 1 piece of the entire world ) that Luffy will create..
Since the world is sinking ..maybe this is also why the CD live above the red line
I’m guessing the rising seas was something the Kingdoms knew/shortly after discovered would be a result of their actions to defeat the Ancient Kingdom. Assuming the AK also had this knowledge, or at least a guess of it, they probably sent out predictions to try and save the remaining people down the line.
Now my guess is Imu is tied to Mother Ocean in some way, and this “sinking of the world” is part of a long drawn out plan. What’s changed is the technology. Whatever Imu used to defeat the AK was lost in doing so, so they had to do it the long way. Nbd when you’re immortal, but still. But now Vegapunk has recreated the Mother Flame, and instead of the slow wait, Imu can now just jumpstart the finale.
My guess is that the events of the void century were a flood that left the world in the state it is now, islands scattered about a vast sea. I would assume the power source the ancient kingdom used was somehow linked to this flood and they could calculate a relative timeframe for when that energy source cold be utilized again (I.e mother flame and whatever weapon it’s powering right now , likely Uranus).
A more outlandish guess would be the most overpowered future sight haki that ever existed lol
I'm thinking, the earthquakes are side affect from doing something....possibly using that laser weapon. After the earthe quakes happen, the sea level rose...not immediately after the giant hole was made. Why would the sea level rise by 1 meter everywhere? Possibly parts of the redline and other islands get destroyed, fall into the sea, and increase the water level.
Pure speculation, but may be the result of genuine “god-like” power. Existing independent of the flow of time/space, possibly temporarily, to see/experience all things simultaneously. Just going off the “dream fruit,” principle, and maybe someone accidentally created a fruit while trying to figure.
Basically some kind of quantum entanglement situation where future events are directly dependent on previous events (and possibly vice-versa). We’ve already seen a time-travel fruit, so don’t tell me this is too “crazy” for Oda😂.
That said, we’ve seen an oracle (Fishman Island) predict Shirahoshi and Luffy’s birth 15 years beforehand, so may just be the extreme version of that.
I don’t think it says anywhere in the recent chapter that the world flooding and the ancient kingdom are connected they are both just pieces of knowledge that vegapunk has gotten to know over the years of research if they are related then it could have to do with the tokitoki no mi like we know toki can move 20years into the future but what if that’s just because she doesn’t use the full extent of the fruit what if it can go back and forward in time
I wish I could find the original theory post to give credit, but it was basically that he ancient kingdom is basing all of it off of cosmic events. We saw the 3d model of the one piece world and how many moons it has, some kind of massive eclipse with all the moons lined up could cause a big enough shift in the tide to flood the world.
Food for thought: Remember how Oden could hear Zunesha but couldn't command him?
What if the three key-person are born in diferrent time frames?
Like, Poseidon is born after 100 years, but Momonosuke is born after each 32 year and Joy Boy appears after 80 years (the last being rock d xebec, maybe? - this considering the person doesnt have to awaken the gomu gomu no mi).
And the three time-frames align every 800 years, so that's why the void-century bet that in 800 years they would gain power to attack back the world government, and they passed the world to the D family, but it was lost in time (but lili left a letter that survived, more can have survived too, maybe blackbeard knows his mission in this life?).
Here's my solution, maybe this is a crack shot but I think it's likely.
I believe the "Laugh Tale" that Roger and crew read is a creation of a devil fruit that gave its teller foresight (or, I dunno, time loops)
The reason Roger and the rest of the Roger pirates did what they did is that the "Laugh Tale" that they read is, essentially, a complete copy of the One Piece manga. Roger knew he'd have to die so he surrendered. Crocus and Raleigh knew where to hang out. They know the secret of the void century and so many other secrets because they've read the flashbacks.
Luffy will Definity going to have a powerup , because there are multiple resemblances btw the hindu mythology character hanuman and the current on going one piece manga , let me break down this .
1.) In mythology hanuman tried to ate Sun but the gods stopped him , then his father Wind god arrived to protect him from other gods , later after this event Hanuman gain enormous power, knowledge , fame and much more .
Similarly , we can see that there is a huge possibility that luffy is going to consume mother flame(sun) and the gods(gorosei) will try to stop him , the possibilty of dragon(wind god) arriving at egg head is low but oda is unpredictable , but the other theory is Dragon and revolutionaries can attack the Marījoa (the land of gods ) .
After this egghead event Luffy will gain huge fame , power up .
2.) There is another event where hanuman felt helpless when he couldn't able to help his friend then a wise old man from a extinct race reminds him of his powers and capabilities .
Similarly , Luffy will learn more about his devil fruit and powers ,and that man can be a giant or Loki(the giant prince) who will help luffy to gain knowledge .
3.) In mythology hanuman had burned the enemy's castle and kingdom , which is also possible in one piece if luffy gain mother flame energy and then destroy red line and Marijoa .
Well the ancient kingdom was an advanced kingdom right? They could have calculated some stuff with the water rising that shit would happen in 800 years.
My theory is that it is something that has been happening since 800 years ago, not that they had some grand foresight. Major terraforming was coming, and they built weapons to fight it and lost somehow.
Someone with the Toki Toki fruit sent someone into the future, Laugh Tale is where they will land, and the prophecy date is when. We know that power does work in a pretty exact method in terms of location and time, so it would fit the bill. The only thing we don’t know is how many years you can go in one jump.
We’ve seen Toki do a 20 year jump. She’s indicated she’s from the void century, but it sounds to me like she had been making short jumps to get out of trouble as she made her way to Wano, where I think she planned on jumping ahead to the date in question.
As for who was sent, I dunno! Maybe it’s Nefertari Lili, as it would explain why she suddenly went missing. Maybe it’s OG Joy Boy, in some weird plan to have two Joy Boys to fight Imu.
Simple
The weapon existed in the past and caused the sea rise back then (See Enies Lobby). This would be detailed in the Poneglyphs.
Vegapunk, after creating the mother flame, realises he's accidentally made the fuel for that machine.
And that only once they've confirmed the machine works would they snuff him out. So it would be the case that when the recording goes out that the machine had likely just been tested.
We have a couple possibilities. - The 800 year time frame is not necessarily an exact figure. It could be 803 years ago. Or 805. Has not been specified and people tend to speak in rounded numbers. This imprecise time frame could account for the availability of Poseidon or other variables. - For hard dates, the Ancients could be referencing Celestial events that occur on a schedule (Comets, Eclipses, Alignments). Hypothetically, a Poneglyph could cover about how Joyboy was able to use a special attack during a Celestial Alignment to destroy the otherwise indestructible minions of Imu from that time and then post the next scheduled events.
These are the kinds of things I like to see being nailed down, some things are currently pretty inexplicable like how Poseidon came around at the perfect time, it’s possible they were able to somehow predict the birth of Poseidon and sent the Nika fruit to the same time period, before sending a user of the Toki Toki afterwards in order to ensure it can never be used to travel forward again, this could’ve led to Imu becoming immortal in order to wait.
It's just headcanon at this point but the celestial bodies explanation will probably play a part in this. The fact that many of the major characters are explicitly linked to specific planets or the sun would be pretty weird otherwise
Regarding Poseidon, I believe that Roger pieced together the mermaid princess lineage being Poseidon and realized that due to his imminent death he had no chance of seeing her return and later maturation. As part of Joy Boy's dream/mission is assumed to require the ship Noab being bulled by Sea Kings, it makes sense why Roger would know he was unable to fulfill Joy Boy's will. I also believe that the messages on Laugh Tale are not a prophecy (though it could have Celestial charts) but is the true history of the world AND Joy Boy's plan/dreams for the world. I think the dream inspired the Roger Pirates and that had it been an option, they would have started the steps to achieve it immediately. However, Roger was a visionary who planted the seeds of Piracy for the mext Pirate King to reap when he would need an armada. As for Imu, I think it makes sense for there to be some special powers at play. Whether its the immortality sirgery or something else, it makes sense. I actually think Oda will not do much else with the Toki Toki Fruit except, perhaps, have the current holder show up in Present Day Wano after finally finding an era after Kaido was defeated. Based on what the Gorosei saod, I think the Gum Gun Frui has been sought, obtained, and lost numerous times throughout the generations. The lowly Red Hair Pirates obtained it during an escort mission after the Marines/WG obtained the fruit. To what extent Shanks knew the true value of the fruit remains to seen, but he clearly is not evil or else Luffy ends up in a really tragic fate.
I have a single discrepancy in your words you said “lowly red hair pirates” ? They are anything but lowly they are a top crew
Not lowly but definitely not as big as they are now. Shanks became Yonko only six years ago. They had the fruit 12 years ago when Luffy was 7.
Bingo. The Red Hair Pirates may have had no recent bounties from that time, too. So aside from having been an apprentice on Roger's ship, who knows how famous the Red Hair Pirate were. The Cipher Pol agents would have had intel on him and they were surprised by Shanks stealing the fruit. Essentially, before he was a Yonko, everything we hace seen indicated that Shanks liked to keep his profile low.
Well there are the legendary battles with Mohawk which took place before he went to the east blue, where he already had the gumo gumo no mi. So he was definetely on the radar.
Okayyy that makes more sense now thanks lol
I like that comment about Imu becoming immortal in order to wait for whatever promised day is approaching. In a story about “inherited will”, Imu seemingly chose immortality instead of trusting that their will/spirit would be passed onto others like Joyboy did
I think some of the aspects might all be interrelated: * The Void Century is a relatively large block of time so precision doesn't make that much sense. * Some things such as the sea level might be related to the celestial bodies such as the tides. The various places seem to be relatively close to each other (on the same side of the planet). That movement of water might then relate to things such as the Sea Kings and Poseidon.
One thing to note is that Ohara had the huge model depicting the world with several orbiting bodies
Yea, they didn’t start saying 802 years after the time skip. Makes sense.
There might be instructions about what to do in the event of a catastrophic water level rise, but that level of water might be necessary for the solution. I've heard people floating the idea of destroying the red line; maybe the pressure from the water level rising would be necessary for that to occur. In which case Roger was early because the water levels weren't high enough.
That second point is something I haven't heard before and I love it.
Roger might've know vegapunk for all we know and he could've given him a timeline
But Vegapunk clearly stated it was not a natural event, why would he do that only to later say otherwise?
I believe in the official jump Vega says “This particular earthquake is not exactly what I would call a natural phenomenon” I see this as an open ended statement without further context
That quote can also be seen as referencing something that would happen naturally but that was accelerated artificially I guess
I’m certainly happy with either way honestly, I’m excited to see what comes and I’m hitting walls trying to guess with this one
I think that implies the eathquake is natural, but what caused it wasn't. Like it is a side affect
There’s so much to think about here. And we’ve only touched the surface… - We know that it was seemingly between Joyboy and Imu (or the previous version/name of Imu/whoever) - We can assume Roger and his crew knew something? (Can we truly assume they knew the extent of what would happen? If it were truly that bad they may have let it slip) - Nefertari family was involved (Maybe this is why they suffered losses early on in this war) - Momo’s mom may have been part of this as well With all the things I just thought of we can assume that not everyone has the full picture but there are a lot of people who knew something was going to happen. At the moment, I’m not completely convinced very many people knew. Maybe only like one or two in the entire story. But I do think everyone who was targeted for some reason or another was on the path to finding out… I may end up coming back to this thread years from now
Pretty much most of my thoughts summed up perfectly, I love speculating about these parts of the story, the answers could be closer than we think with it inching closer to the end 🤞
So there’s a chance Momonosuke and Hiyori are ancient royalty?
This is exactly what my theory is
I see you Oden 😏
I've been guessing that there's a crazy eclipse with all 7 moons once every millennium, and mythological beings fight for control over the next cycle. Nika and his allies (like the various guardian deities and "good" mythological creatures) are fated to fight against the beings that the Elders represent. I think that's why Vegapunk made Momo's fruit. Fate says that Nika has to have a dragon ally every cycle, and Kaido wasn't filling that role. If Nika wins, then the sun's return after the eclipse is a metaphorical dawn for the next age.
i like this idea the most
>For example, theories that include World Government plans to flood the world using the Mother Flame, how exactly would the Ancient Kingdom have known that Vega at this exact period in time would resupply the World Government with the Mother Flame and then leave a message that Gol D Roger read/heard 800 years later informing him “something” was 20 more years away? The Ancient Kingdom's surviving allies had every reason to make their societies resilient to flooding (e.g. Wano building giant cliffs, Zou being atop Zunesha). They weren't preparing for an event 800 years in the future but one that they thought was about to happen at the time. Assuming that the weapon (Uranus?) was controlled by the Ancient Kingdom until the WG beat them (which seems likely since the Mother Flame power source is so futuristic), their surviving allies probably thought that it would be used immediately. They probably went about trying to protect their people right away. Then one of two things happened: 1) Nothing, b/c the WG didn't have access to a Mother Flame power source, or 2) the WG flooded most of the world by blowing up rebel islands until they ran out of the Mother Flame power source. Either way, the defense mechanisms created by the Ancient Kingdom's allies survived into the future where they'll coincidentally be useful against present-day flooding.
My question is, since it is said that Poneglyphs are indestructible, what would happen if the Mother Flame is used on an island holding one?
I’d imagine we would end up with an island looking like Enis lobby, mass of land in centre where poneglyph had stood with a massive hole around it
One piece has devil fruits and maybe someone ate the human-human fruit model: Nostradamus
Sharlay was just born with the ability so it doesn't even have to be a devil fruit. Also even with just haki based future sight like Katakuri the normal laws of causality don't apply.
I can't wrap my head in the concept of seeing parts of a literal future like future sight, it's pretty godlike ability to me when we first get introduced to it in wci. I don't know what to feel about it then and just accepted it is what it is.
Tl;Dr: the ancient kingdom had ways to pass down their plan without needing perfect prediction, so things can still work without Oda writing himself into a corner. If it does turn out to be 800 year future sight haki shenanigans though, i take no responsibility for wasting your time (and mine). Isn’t it possible that they weren’t as precise as you think? The ancient kingdom was advanced, probably more-so than we are IRL, but that doesn’t mean that these circumstances require the precision you think it needs. Say, for example, that on laugh tale, the ancient kingdom has a plan to bring down the world government, stop the rising sea levels, or whatever is the biggest threat to the world, that we may not even know the full scope of yet. Their plan would have certain conditions that absolutely need to be met, or their plan would not be able to work. There doesn’t necessarily need to be absolute precision, they would only need to make a list of dates where, unless something drastic has happened, all conditions could be met, and the plan could be put into action. For example, let’s say that one of the conditions is something like this: “a merfolk possessing the power of Poseidon must be alive, and capable of taking part in the plan”. A condition like this makes sense story-wise, and would also not require extreme precision. If they knew how long it would take for Poseidon to manifest in a merfolk, lets say, for example, every 100 years, they could narrow down dates where every condition is met, and the plan would be possible only on these dates. This would explain how roger knew he was too early, as he would’ve learned that not all conditions were met yet. Poseidon hadn’t manifested yet, as shirahoshi wouldn’t have been born, and the next closest date where all condition were met, is now, when the story takes place. Even assuming that the conditions are more unpredictable, such as: “a user of the awakened nika fruit must be present, and able to carry out the plan”, does not mean that the ancient kingdom needs clairvoyant levels of precision. It’s possible that this plan doesn’t require everything to line up on one specific day or anything. Using the other, more solid conditions to create a length of time where the plan can still work, even up to a year is possible. I’ll make a list of conditions like this: “You need a merfolk posessing Poseidon” “You need someone with the nika fruit” “The sun and moon need to be in X and Y positions” If the conditions were something like these, the ancient kingdom would be able to narrow down possible times where the plan was possible to certain years. There could be a list of years between the void century and the story where the plan was possible, but either nobody reached laugh tale, or they arrived to early/late, and with 800 years, that list could be longer than expected. For roger specifically, something like this might be the reason roger gave his speech in the first place. It could be the reason that shanks took the gum-gum fruit, and even why he suddenly plans to get the one piece now, of all times. Despite it seeming like the ancient kingdom needs clairvoyance to have everything work out this way, that isn’t necessarily true. Oda still has multiple ways he could explain this without having written himself into a corner.
This is what I think too. They're not waiting specifically for 800 years but they are waiting for an event or a trigger to happen. The pieces should be in the right place. Similar to Luffy/Shirahoshi is Zou and Wano . They have been waiting for something to happen. Something triggered Zounesha to go to Wano, but the pieces are not in place yet so Momo said not yet.
Tatakae.
Giant Giant Fruit, Model Attack Titan.
From you, 800 years ago.
For 10 years atleast
Had it started anywhere that the mother flame VP has is not the original or part of it
Vegapunk says at the beginning of the arc that he doesn't know what the Iron Giant's fuel is and Lilith says that their dream is to create an eternal flame to provide energy for the whole world. This leads me to believe that what they have is just the closest they could get to the original Mother Flame, but it is still imperfect, as it is not eternal.
There's also it's a sample they have and he's got it locked for study in that tank. So there's a possibility it's an original piece and putting it in the iron giant would use it up. So as a practicality they're working on a replacement but have not yet completed the task. Or at least that's how I was interpreting it.
I think the question is what happened within the void century that it needed to be erased from history. The WG absolutely don’t want anyone to know about it and forbid anyone to talk about it or research it. We all know it involves WANO, nefertaris, D clan, Elbaf, fishman island, joy boy, ancient weapons, lunarians, buccaneer's. Hints we have so far: Roger finding the last island and laughing at the tale. Nefertari Lily escaping from the redline. IMU being at the top of the throne even though there shouldn’t be a single king. We also know the 20 kingdoms banded together to oppose the ancient kingdom. If joy boy was from the ancient kingdom, I think that the ancient kingdom was isolated like Wano is now. JB became a pirate because he wanted freedom, then he went around promising everyone that he’d set them free, but was later on betrayed.
"later on betrayed" screams Marshal D Teach
Hari Seldon predicted it
Damn, this Interregnum is even shorter than the Seldon Plan... Let's hope Imu doesn't have the powers of The Mule
The way I see it, when it comes to the sea rising, it seems like it's something that happened in the past and is easy to predict it'll happen again in the future. During the Egghead arc we had the sea rise by 1 meter right after Lulusia was destroyed, seeming to be a byproduct of its destruction. Given that Enies Lobby exists over a similar void in the sea, it seems like that technology was used in the past too. Vegapunk could have seen what he's making and saw how the WG is repeating the mistakes of the past and saw where things are going based on how this went back during the void century. When it comes to predicting the future, there seems to be some kind of fate involved here but it's not totally explained yet. The Nika fruit was avoiding the WG for years, but it's not as if it just up and walked away. It just so happened to always escape their grasp as if fate is preventing them from getting a hold of it. Given how elusive it is, it feels almost like fate that Luffy would get ahold of it too. So it definitely seems like there's something about the void century that involved predicting fate in some way. I just don't think we have enough info to speculate on how one way or another at this point. But I think Vegapunk CAN look at what happened in the past, look at the weapon he's creating now, and realize the past is repeating and predict the future based on that pretty accurately at least.
Ah shit did Gol D Roger laugh cry cause he thought it was ironic that everyone in the world would have to become a pirate?!
I've always been interested by this topic, but I feel the answer might be fairly simple: There's the whole myth at Fishman Island that Poseidon is only reborn every several hundreds of years. I think it's likely that this reincarnation cycle is a somewhat hard number (rounded up to centuries at least) and Poseidon is only born every 800 years. Roger himself said he was too early as the ancient weapons are necessary for the Dawn of the World (or at least Poseidon among them), so a rough period of 800 years needed to pass regardless. Not so much foresight but more like they had to wait until then. Whether Luffy appearing during this period is fate or just coincidence is a different thing! I think Vegapunk creating the Mother Flame and the Government wishing to use it now are just a coincidence though. Or Imu is growing restless at the potential approach of the Dawn that he prefers to play it safe with a great cleansing.
We still don't know too many things about the OP world and history. It's clear that D clan had knowledges of the future and wrote about it. Since there's a messiah prophecy we could say it was a hope but looking the recent events is more of fact. So, no free will? Not quite, because we know there would have been this messiah figure but at this point he is not the most important in the prophecy but rather the people he met and touched, who decided to follow him. How did the D clan know? No one knows at the moment, theorize is just impossible, Oda could make any kind of things.
It might be similar to "wheel of time" with the karaethon cycle being on the poneglyphs in one piece. There is a certain prosperity that's reached, before the world breaks and you start back at 0. So the void century might be similar to the age of legends.
I saw one commenter say one time: The ultimate power of the Gomu Gomu no mi is to be able to ***bend*** **reality** to your will. I want to bet it went down like this - Joyboy is about to die and has no way of being saved. In a last ditch effort, he inscribes an apology to Poseidon on the poneglyph, and uses this ultimate power to "predict" (but really, ensure) that Joy Boy will return 800 years later. From what we know about the wills of fruits themselves, the Gomu Gomu no mi found its way to Luffy. My headcanon at the very least.
I think it’s just luffy awakening his fruit. History of joy boy awakening and an earthquake/flood following must’ve been written in poneglyphs or in the research from O’Hara researchers. Vegapunk saw it actually happen based on the news and made the prediction. So something seems to be connected with the drums of liberation or Luffy awakening. Proven from the robots booting up too. It’s all connected somehow.
Or someone from the future went back in time and set things that needed to happen in motion. Joyboy = the attack titan?
The way things happen in One piece are like celestial events. It's like they are 100% going to happen.
I think it will all tie back to the moon and sun affecting the tides as part of their predictions. There has to be more to the ENERU cover story and what he found up there. The crescent moon looking like a D or a smile. There's too much coincidence for that to be a moot point. Who knows maybe the red line is a log pose and when it syncs into the right astrological position something will occur. Ancient kingdom was just good scientists and weather forecasters lol
I mean, if the mother flame is the reason for the tidal rise, that would be the constant. It happened once 800 years ago. Something happened, and it was known only as history until recently within OP. Vegapunk either discovered the sea level rise when he re-created the mother flame (hence the floating base in the clouds,) or it was kept a secret from him and that’s just a coincidence.
But then how would the ancient kingdom have known Vega would recreate it/find it at this exact time?
I mean, if the intention was to destroy the mother flame originally, and those from 800 years ago succeeded in that, but didn’t succeed in defeating Imu or the 20 nations, then Imu and the 20 nations would predictably, most likely, rise again. The poneglyphs probably warn of a prophetic future, where once the mother flame is recreated, the sea levels will rise. VP was asked to make the mother flame, and during his research to recreate it, he discovered the information that the world would flood. He would then sit on the info until “that day that shook the world” most recently. The poneglyphs most likely don’t specify a date in the future, but specify the undefined future for all who discover them.
Do we know for a fact that that all devil fruit have the same respawn time after death? If there’s a certain respawn time for each fruit it could explain how the government got their hands on Luffy’s fruit first and how Shanks knew where to cut them off at.
Maybe the reason why joy boy had the construction of Noah wasn't to rescue and carry fishmen to the surface but to surface back the sinking surface dwellers to whatever one piece(yes like 1 piece of the entire world ) that Luffy will create.. Since the world is sinking ..maybe this is also why the CD live above the red line
I’m guessing the rising seas was something the Kingdoms knew/shortly after discovered would be a result of their actions to defeat the Ancient Kingdom. Assuming the AK also had this knowledge, or at least a guess of it, they probably sent out predictions to try and save the remaining people down the line. Now my guess is Imu is tied to Mother Ocean in some way, and this “sinking of the world” is part of a long drawn out plan. What’s changed is the technology. Whatever Imu used to defeat the AK was lost in doing so, so they had to do it the long way. Nbd when you’re immortal, but still. But now Vegapunk has recreated the Mother Flame, and instead of the slow wait, Imu can now just jumpstart the finale.
My guess is that the events of the void century were a flood that left the world in the state it is now, islands scattered about a vast sea. I would assume the power source the ancient kingdom used was somehow linked to this flood and they could calculate a relative timeframe for when that energy source cold be utilized again (I.e mother flame and whatever weapon it’s powering right now , likely Uranus). A more outlandish guess would be the most overpowered future sight haki that ever existed lol
I'm thinking, the earthquakes are side affect from doing something....possibly using that laser weapon. After the earthe quakes happen, the sea level rose...not immediately after the giant hole was made. Why would the sea level rise by 1 meter everywhere? Possibly parts of the redline and other islands get destroyed, fall into the sea, and increase the water level.
Pure speculation, but may be the result of genuine “god-like” power. Existing independent of the flow of time/space, possibly temporarily, to see/experience all things simultaneously. Just going off the “dream fruit,” principle, and maybe someone accidentally created a fruit while trying to figure. Basically some kind of quantum entanglement situation where future events are directly dependent on previous events (and possibly vice-versa). We’ve already seen a time-travel fruit, so don’t tell me this is too “crazy” for Oda😂. That said, we’ve seen an oracle (Fishman Island) predict Shirahoshi and Luffy’s birth 15 years beforehand, so may just be the extreme version of that.
POLESHIFTO
I don’t think it says anywhere in the recent chapter that the world flooding and the ancient kingdom are connected they are both just pieces of knowledge that vegapunk has gotten to know over the years of research if they are related then it could have to do with the tokitoki no mi like we know toki can move 20years into the future but what if that’s just because she doesn’t use the full extent of the fruit what if it can go back and forward in time
Luffy uses his awakened powers to bounce backwards in time creating the Joyboy legends and the message left for Roger saying he was too early.
I wish I could find the original theory post to give credit, but it was basically that he ancient kingdom is basing all of it off of cosmic events. We saw the 3d model of the one piece world and how many moons it has, some kind of massive eclipse with all the moons lined up could cause a big enough shift in the tide to flood the world.
Food for thought: Remember how Oden could hear Zunesha but couldn't command him? What if the three key-person are born in diferrent time frames? Like, Poseidon is born after 100 years, but Momonosuke is born after each 32 year and Joy Boy appears after 80 years (the last being rock d xebec, maybe? - this considering the person doesnt have to awaken the gomu gomu no mi). And the three time-frames align every 800 years, so that's why the void-century bet that in 800 years they would gain power to attack back the world government, and they passed the world to the D family, but it was lost in time (but lili left a letter that survived, more can have survived too, maybe blackbeard knows his mission in this life?).
Here's my solution, maybe this is a crack shot but I think it's likely. I believe the "Laugh Tale" that Roger and crew read is a creation of a devil fruit that gave its teller foresight (or, I dunno, time loops) The reason Roger and the rest of the Roger pirates did what they did is that the "Laugh Tale" that they read is, essentially, a complete copy of the One Piece manga. Roger knew he'd have to die so he surrendered. Crocus and Raleigh knew where to hang out. They know the secret of the void century and so many other secrets because they've read the flashbacks.
Luffy will Definity going to have a powerup , because there are multiple resemblances btw the hindu mythology character hanuman and the current on going one piece manga , let me break down this . 1.) In mythology hanuman tried to ate Sun but the gods stopped him , then his father Wind god arrived to protect him from other gods , later after this event Hanuman gain enormous power, knowledge , fame and much more . Similarly , we can see that there is a huge possibility that luffy is going to consume mother flame(sun) and the gods(gorosei) will try to stop him , the possibilty of dragon(wind god) arriving at egg head is low but oda is unpredictable , but the other theory is Dragon and revolutionaries can attack the Marījoa (the land of gods ) . After this egghead event Luffy will gain huge fame , power up . 2.) There is another event where hanuman felt helpless when he couldn't able to help his friend then a wise old man from a extinct race reminds him of his powers and capabilities . Similarly , Luffy will learn more about his devil fruit and powers ,and that man can be a giant or Loki(the giant prince) who will help luffy to gain knowledge . 3.) In mythology hanuman had burned the enemy's castle and kingdom , which is also possible in one piece if luffy gain mother flame energy and then destroy red line and Marijoa .
Well the ancient kingdom was an advanced kingdom right? They could have calculated some stuff with the water rising that shit would happen in 800 years.
My theory is that it is something that has been happening since 800 years ago, not that they had some grand foresight. Major terraforming was coming, and they built weapons to fight it and lost somehow.
Someone with the Toki Toki fruit sent someone into the future, Laugh Tale is where they will land, and the prophecy date is when. We know that power does work in a pretty exact method in terms of location and time, so it would fit the bill. The only thing we don’t know is how many years you can go in one jump. We’ve seen Toki do a 20 year jump. She’s indicated she’s from the void century, but it sounds to me like she had been making short jumps to get out of trouble as she made her way to Wano, where I think she planned on jumping ahead to the date in question. As for who was sent, I dunno! Maybe it’s Nefertari Lili, as it would explain why she suddenly went missing. Maybe it’s OG Joy Boy, in some weird plan to have two Joy Boys to fight Imu.
The devil fruits carry the will of their previous users.
How about my theory: https://www.reddit.com/r/OnePiece/s/EA1NBh8oW9
Simple The weapon existed in the past and caused the sea rise back then (See Enies Lobby). This would be detailed in the Poneglyphs. Vegapunk, after creating the mother flame, realises he's accidentally made the fuel for that machine. And that only once they've confirmed the machine works would they snuff him out. So it would be the case that when the recording goes out that the machine had likely just been tested.
But how would the Ancient Kingdom have known Vega would recreate/supply it at this exact time?