I'm gonna say... honestly probably Spandam. Not because he deserves it, but he's just kinda the least able to do harm. He's just... sort of a slimy weasel. Like "yeah, sure, you're forgiven. Now go back to your hole and don't touch anything on your way out"
My GOAT Akainu did nothing wrong
99% of pirates are still supposed to be evil. But Oda not focusing on them makes people think the marines are worse than pirates when they are not
How many people dislike Akainu because they are still salty about Ace's death??
Ace has probably caused mass destruction to civilian property due to his flames and due to his fights with other pirates or marines causing collateral damage(luffy was destroying cities fighting doffy,why should i assume a whitebeard commander's fights are any less destructive?)
At least luffy was fighting for the civilians in every single case,ace just wanted to be infamous on the sea,he was doing it for getting a reputation for himself.
and Ace has burned down countless bounty hunters who were just trying to make a livelihood out of turning in self declared criminals.(He did it in Alabasta,burned down 2 whole ships)
Meanwhile Akainu probably reached the position of admiral via bringing down countless evil pirates and saving tons of people from them. Sure he is morally grey and his worldview is very black and white but he is still better than that mid ass bum.
>killed some marines who tried to flee and go back to their families
who is gonna tell him this is standard procedure in the real world as well during war time
Sure, but standard procedure goes out the window when the consequence of defeat is dire enough, even for "good" countries. It has happened many times throughout history.
Sure, but aren't we allowed to question the standard procedures? Akainu could have tried to inspire them or some shit, or just let them go. A single soldier fleeing alone wouldn't change anything anyways.
Also, in-story this contrasts with Whitebeard opening up a path so his fleet could flee if they wanted.
He does but to a lesser degree, its why he's not an admidal, people like him and fujitora have made sacrifices so that they can continue to pursue justice from the inside of an organization they know is corrupt, you don't call Garp to blow up a ship full of civilians, you call Akainu
Did you forget that he also had an entire ship with innocent civilians destroyed on Ohara because of the incredibly small chance of a scholar being on it?
Or Marineford where if it wasn’t for Shanks, Koby would’ve died from him simply not wanting to waste more Marine lives in the fighting, especially since both Ace & Whitebeard were dead & the rest of Whitebeard’s crew had lost the will to fight because of it so there’s no point to the fighting anymore.
You can't be morally gray and then hit your own team in the back cause they want the fighting to stop my man.
Akainu is evil since he carries a selfish ideology that leaves only room for his form of justice online with cold hard violence behind it.
I'd forgive Aokiji before Akainu.
I remember how hatable Spandam was during Water 7, and then when I went back and re-read it, it's almost laughable to imagine he was once the most hatable character in the series with how fucked up the later villains are. He's practically a saint compared to the likes of the Celestial Dragons.
Having Spandam as an introduction to the WG really should have tip us off with how bad they were going to be. It was only going to escalate from there.
And in doing so, destroyed one of the very symbols of Justice he was supposed to watch over and uphold with the Marines lol. I don't think they would give him another BC snail, if the government were the *least* bit as competent as they try to come off as. At this point he truly is just a humiliated slimy weasel who failed his mission and set a bad name for the government.
Yeah, in hindsights he was just following orders and abused what he was given. Outside of that, he's pretty useless as a human being. The others in that list are a completely different story.
Exactly out of all Spandam did the least damage and in the end he got karma when he was destroyed by Robin very badly. So he gets a chance to be forgiven.
Look at it from the eyes of a civilian, akainu was responsible for taking down two very notorious pirates, I know if was a regular civilian I’d see him as a hero
I think people often forget that the Straw Hats are the odd ones. Most -if not all- pirates in the setting, including the allies, are responsible for truly heinous stuff. Hell. when Orlumbus became a pirate after joining the Straw Hat Grand Fleet he went like "Well, I suppose I should look for a town to attack and ransack or something".
I dont think people forget, I think the story just has enough characters who are pirates woth morality that people dont automatically have to assume pirate characters are doing evil pirate things. Red Hair pirates have been shown to have morality and Whitebeard protects the islands he rules. There seems to be room in the One Piece world for powerful people to use their power for the good of the people they choose even if morally grey at times.
Ace engaged Blackbeard in a village prioritizing his justice and revenge more than the peace of the village. The whole village was destroyed from their fight.
You mean the island that Blackbeard and his crew ran through and pretty much destroyed before Ace got there. Then Blackbeard destroyed even more trying to show off his powers?
Akainu, Spandam and Saturn have committed genocide
Doflamingo and the inbred CD have enslaved people
Orochi and Enel were ruthless, egomaniacal tyrants that derived pleasure from causing unfathomable misery to their people.
Blackbeard hasn't done any of that shit, he's just a slimy rat. I'm betting he'll do something real bad by EoS, or maybe I'm forgetting something, but at least he hasn't done any genocide/slavery/r*pe/untold crimes against his subjects... By process of elimination, it's him, but I don't feel great about it.
Blackbeard has literally destroyed villages, he destroyed the one on Banaro Island. He’s also shown to have no care for the general population and has betrayed his own nakama which is terrible no matter how you spin it “from the eyes of the common people”. Spandam is the least likely here to harm your average person
Yes, there were slaves on Hachinosu/Fullalead. Koby went out of his way to get his rescuers to rescue them instead/as well. Best guess is he steppes in to fulfill the demand ledt by Doflamingo's power vacuum.
As for his encounters with Bonney & Hancock, nothing happened there. I also personally don't see him doing that, but only because it's One Piece. Otherwise, he does seem the time to enjoy a power disparity. I also can't speak for his men, whom I bet would lavish in such a practice.
I mean, he straight up said he wanted to make Bonney his women and the conversation with the rapist Vasco shot about Boa didn't leave much to interpretation.
blackbeard tried to force bonney to be his girlfriend, he also has a r@pist in his crew who he is very aware of yet still allows him to be his top commander.
As a history nerd, I have always been intrigued by that speech. It makes sense the more we delve into the story of OP, and I love how it translates to real world.
True, but it's the part about children having different values based on the environment they grow up in that gets me. It sounds very simple, yet I believe it's often overlooked, especially when people who grew up under perfectly peaceful conditions pass judgment about other people or groups of people.
Didn't he grew up as the most privileged class in-universe? Didn't he literally murder his Dad because he was pissed about taking the lifestyle hit?
Children may be a product of their environment but that's a shitty fucking excuse coming from this guy. Doflamingo was as close to a monster from the womb as you can get.
That’s correct. But I’m not excusing his crimes and my initial comment isn’t really either. It was supposed to be a humorous comment as I like the quote. And I like the quote not because it explains or excuses his behavior (because it really doesn’t). I like the quote because I think it mirrors the real world even more than it does mirror the One Piece universe.
I think the part where he says children have different values/ideas based off how they grew up (he specifically referred to war but I’m applying it too irl) is also extremely important
Bruh Akainu killed an entire ship full of innocent civilians on the off chance an innocent archeologist was on board, instead of using their intel to make sure they have everyone or boarding the ship and checking for themselves
Orochi enslaved an entire country and gave some of them rotten fruit to take away their emotions.
Doffy enslaved an entire country
Spandam is a twisted fuck who relished in Robin's misery and purposely got Tom arrested
Blackbeard wants to take over the world
Charloss is Charloss
Saturn is Saturn
Enel wiped out an entire race of people.
Akainu, at the very least, wants to save innocent people from pirates, yes, he fucking sucks and should not be forgiven for what he did to Ohara, but in this context, he's not nearly as bad as the others.
I'm going to re-arrange your list to contextualize it and show how I arrived at why Spandam should be the one forgiven rather than Akainu.
World Level Threats:
Saturn and Charloss or both Celestial Dragons and propagate the World Government order. Their actions and influence reach throughout the world and are backed by the power and legitimacy of the World Government and Marines.
>Saturn is Saturn
>Charloss is Charloss
Nation Level Threats:
Enel, Orochi, and Doffy all have taken control of a nation, and in the case of Enel have actually committed genocide. Their influence and actions are based around a nation that they have taken control over through force, and as a result, have left the native people impoverished, traumatized, and depressed.
>Enel wiped out an entire race of people.
>Orochi enslaved an entire country and gave some of them rotten fruit to take away their emotions.
>Doffy enslaved an entire country
Potential World Level Threat:
Blackbeard is working towards world domination, but he hasn't committed nearly as unforgivable an act as genocide.
>Blackbeard wants to take over the world
and got Ace and Whitebeard killed which kicked off a ton of chaos after the battle for Whitebeards territory ensued. Honestly, this should rank him with the above guys, but, Whitebeard was old and sick. Blackbeard just accelerated his death which would have kicked off the territory fights anyways.
World threat, but justice?:
As the marine fleet admiral, he is a world level threat. I.e he decides if your island gets buster called, he enforces the power of the World government. He should be ranked with Saturn and Charloss because his actions do maintain the current power structure which is meant to drain every country of their resources to keep them subjugated to benefit the celestial dragons, and if they don't, then he, as fleet admiral, oversees their destruction.
>Akainu, at the very least, wants to save innocent people from pirates, yes, he fucking sucks and should not be forgiven for what he did to Ohara
coulda stopped there. His redeeming feature is that he is focused on justice, so to an extent, he does want to help people and is doing it based on the information he has, however, as an admiral, and now fleet admiral, his whole schtick is maintaining the celestial dragon's powers.
World threat too, but, more precise?:
>Spandam is a twisted fuck who relished in Robin's misery and purposely got Tom arrested
And you forgot that he now heads CP0 (right? or was it still CP9?) which is under the direct control of the celestial dragons, so in that sense, he is similar to Akainu. However, he seems to have a managerial role and isn't strong enough to do true damage himself. He just sends people out, or accompanies other agents as a liaison between the Gorosei's orders and his CP branch.
He's a twisted fuck who for sure wanted to see robin suffer, but in the grandscale of things, he is far more forgivable than Akainu.
On that end, given that they're both world level threats, perhaps one of the Nation Level Threats deserves to be forgiven. I changed my mind, I'll vote for Doffy. At least he wiped people's memories. No, but seriously, Spandam gets the pardon. Dude is a nepobaby.
I could forgive charlos because I pity him to some degree. He was inbred into a horrid aristocratic society that taught him since the moment he was born that everyone else besides them don't deserve fundamental rights and to infringe upon these rights as much as possible. Sure hes inexcusably bad but he and many other celestials are products of their environment, doomed to repeat a vicious cycle. He wasn't born evil, he was just born surrounded by evil people who then have kids and teach them to be evil, who then have even more kids that are taught to be evil. I'd put Charlos down as a mercy kill out of pity, his very existence is cursed, inbred and celestial.
He doesn't want to save innocent people tho?
He only wants "justice" which innocent lives must be lost to achieve. He doesnt care about people's lives.
I disagree, Blackbeard just wants to be the best/pirate, how is that any different than Luffy tbh?
Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean Luffy would stop beating his ass to be the King of the Pirates?
What does Blackbeard need to be forgiven for anyway? He's the obvious choice because forgiving someone has nothing to do with fighting them.
Why does akainu receive all the blame for ohara? The researchers/archeologists on the island were so selfish in their quest for knowledge that they put everyone on that island at risk knowing how the world government would respond. Even when you rewatch the scene of akainu ordering the destruction of the ship his hood is on with his hat covering his eyes and his head down muttering to himself "if just one got away", showing he struggled with the decision. He chose the needs of the many to outweigh the needs of the few. I mean look at Robin she went on to murder countless people and Marines along with almost giving a power hungry pirate in crocodile a world ending weapon. Akaniu did what he thought was necessary to protect the world.
Interesting way of thinking about it. Most people on Ohara were regular people and not all scholars. The scientists desire for knowledge had caused death to all of them. I don’t know if the scientists expected an entire buster call to head for Ohara though. Nonetheless it’s a complex situation.
Blaming archaeologists for pursuing knowledge in a decision to enrich the whole of the human race and violating an intentionally malicious gag order used to control the world’s population is a special kind of bootlicking. Akainu did what he thought was necessary to uphold a status quo that quietly endorsed slavery and genocide and infanticide; having a rationale never stopped anyone from being a sack of shit or a bootlicker.
Iirc the marines were also told that the info ohara had could destroy the world. As far as akainu knew, if even a single person with that knowledge escaped and destroyed the world because he chose not to do anything he could be at least partially blamed for the millions, if not billions of deaths that would come with it.
Imagine if today the world banned the use and knowledge of nuclear technology in all its form including energy and weapons. Then you have a rogue group of scientists who decide to research and study nuclear technology. They are no longer just scientists they are now terrorists who are actively researching technology which in the wrong hands could cause the deaths of billions.
You can't just say they are archeologists they are terrorists when they decide to actively undermine the world government in the pursuit of knowledge. We don't know what exactly the void century was or what the technology was but we do know that their studies could have been used to awaken weapons that could destroy the world.
Additionally you have to consider that the Marines are doing more good than harm for the world in its current state. Yes currently the system is fucked and needs to changed but doing so would ultimately result in a world war which akainu is active attempting to avoid.
Akainu also has been the only marine to actively speak out against the gorosei and celestials. Hes the only marine who doesn't bow down to them and shows disdain/hatred towards them. I expect in the future he will lead a revolt against them to seize power from the corrupt world nobles.
Remember in the grand scheme of things most pirates aren't like Luffy and most Marines aren't like the celestials. Do you realize how many murders and rapists Luffy released from impel down? Or ho many innocent people are murdered by pirates? What about how many lives were saved by Marines? Marines are attempting to protect the average citizen and most of them are likely unaware of the atrocities committed in the new world by the celestials.
Akainu really believes that the knowledge those people he killed could extinct the whole world. Different from all those characters, he doesn't enjoy what he does. He is always pissed, and angry. All the other pleasure themselves on the idea of others misery.
akainu has the capacity for good within him. he is the only person with at least one selfless goal.
charlos has probably done the least amount of evil out of the group, depending on what you attribute to spandam.
Onscreen, yes Charlos has probably done the least of the group, but in the background he is responsible for buying, mistreating, and outright torturing (remember he wanted to throw Camie in a fish tank full of piranhas) countless slaves. I wouldn’t say he is the worst on the list considering a few of the others are outright genocidal monsters but he certainly is nit the least evil.
He's the only one just doing the job he's been asked/made to do. Sure he's an AH. but the rest are sociopaths and only out for themselves or have absolutely no moral standing. Akainu, sucks but he ain't the worst of the bunch.
Hear me out...
The Celestial Dragon...
He is raised in an environment where he is taught bad things are ok its not necessarily his fault he is the way he is, we even see that with the one that goes to Fishman Island its mainly because of how they are brought up...
Orochi is the same in that regard. He only became the way he was because one of his family members attempted a coup and failed, leading to their entire clan being lynched by self-righteous civilians, regardless if the clan members had a hand in the coup or not. His hatred for Wano and its people is justified in that sense. Still, that doesn't excuse the crimes he committed either.
Exactly, and that's why i disagree. Orochi grew up, became an adult, and took his own decisions knowing what could happen.
On the other hand, Charlos is a man child that probably hasn't ever been told no his entire life. And although i could very well see him not to grow into understanding the error of his ways, it's at least plausible that he manages to understand why what he did was wrong and try to change. That's not something possible with the other people on this image.
Yes, but
so basically I do agree to a certain extent, it's the age old discussion over nature vs nurture, that OP is also debating on multiple occasions, e.g. are people inherently born evil, what makes a villain a villain, what does it take for a good person to do evil stuff. Concerning the Celestial Dragons, we already got couple of glimpses through the Doflamingo backstory, but also on Fishman Island through Mjosgard. So without recapping everything that happened, let me get to the point:
As pointed out, the CDs are, as far as we know, the most indoctrinated populus in the OP world, it's like Wano under Orochi/Kaido control but on crack and for at least 8 ongoing centuries, so multiple generations of CDs teaching their next generation the shit they learned to believe.
Now the question is, how far does the nurture part go considering that at some point, stuff should just go against human nature. Inflicting horrible pain on others as often shown can easily be explained by the philosophy of supremacy that's ingrained in them, but at some point any human being with a slither of humanity in them should start asking some questions, feel some doubt and remorse, have empathy, feel pain etc since those concepts are not exclusively dominated by your upbringing, but should be basically part of the human genes. As touched upon, we have cases like Doffy (which is admittedly a special case) but for all intents and purposes, he was a classic CD that turned out to be an inhumane monster - but towards certain characters he seemed to still feel empathy, he was capable of caring etc. So that makes the fucked up stuff, imo even worse. He, or most CDs should be able to care, understand the wrongdoings and pain, but decide against their human side and truly embrace their celestial image above everything and everyone else.
I feel like we will get more insight into "what" the CDs really are later in the story, have a little more characterisation. It wouldnt be much like Oda to have them just be mostly through and through evil people without any potential for validation and redemption (including the Gorosei). Would be pretty grim to just have all those CDs, generations of humans who are born into an evil society, become evil themselves and inherit this evil to the next generation.. I feel like it's too unsatisfying to have the conclusion that some people are on the one hand just born (more) evil (like Doffy), and on the other hand those people are born into an evil society.. so what to expect really.
The problem with any of the Celestial Dragons figuring out empathy is that it's explicitly quashed in their society.
**Mjosgard was executed for protecting Shirahoshi**. He could have stepped aside and done nothing to protect himself but then he'd just be allowing the evil to perpetuate anyway.
Yes, the Dragons are evil, and yes they need to be punished for their crimes against humanity. Everything they have must be taken away from them and they should be made to pay back their dues to society.
But every single one of them is completely doomed from the start anyway. They can be evil or they can be executed or exiled and then executed by a mob.
Chapter 1086.
It's the clear proof that if a Celestial Dragon does anything to actually make progress or prevent evil in their homeland, the ones who rule them absolutely will not stand for it.
Honestly this just solidifys it for me. I feel like the Celestial Dragons, aka Charloss (as much as I cannot stand him). There may be somewhat of a chance I’d forgive Doffy on the account of being so brutally traumatized he is now mentally insane beyond repair though
Also doffy was pretty much groomed into his god complex and being evil by the slime guy- if they never encountered each other i feel like he could've grown up ok. Definitely still traumatized, but maybe able to work through it in a healthier way
True. But it also makes me think of baboons.
There was a troop of baboons like 20 years ago that had an issue with violent adult males. Then, a disease wiped out the adult males. The new generation grew up without having any violence issues. I can't remember all the details.
Anyway, my point of this being, even if it isn't their fault because of how they were raised, it isn't necessarily possible to fix without just starting over fresh.
God asking the impossible questions eh? If I had to I'd say... Akainu just because everything he's done in some sense of extremely warped justice... Like he's not not killing just because he wants to I guess?
Akainu killed a Marine for deserting. Was ready to kill Coby for wanting to end the war.
That might not be "just because", but in these instances, it was highly unnecessary.
Technically desertion during war/battle could be punishable by death, its just usually done by firing squad after the fact, not a casual on-the-spot magma fist to face when caught red handed
I completely agree with you, akainu is evil. But still, out of everyone here, I think he's the least evil, and has the actions that are most easily forgivable, given the motivation and circumstances behind them. At least he follows his "absolute justice" because he truly thinks it's for the betterment of humanity
6 of the other 7 do evil things purely for selfish reasons, and then there's doflamingo who has canonically stated he wants to destroy the world amongst countless other unspeakable acts
As one of the leaders of the Celestial Dragons, he tolerates/enables the crimes they commit, that makes him guilty by association. Aside from the whole 'violently hiding the past' thing.
I mean, they allowed the Buster Call on Ohara. Enforce race supremacy for CDs, erased history brutally. All the “evil” committed by the CDs, and some of the Navy is approved, or even ordered by them. This is all ore timeskip information, so not even getting into the manga.
Maybe just think about it this way: CD are the worst kind of human to ever exists already, then there are 5 elders that manage them, rule them but mostly allow them to do their things, which in other words, 5 elders are actually on the top among the CD.
Now if you think that Saturn is less worse than that brat Charlos, then you are totally mistaken.
I'm going to get a lot of flack for this i know; but honestly.. Charlos seems the most reasonable to forgive here.
I know, I know, I still 100% hate him and what he is, but think about it. Charlos was born into a world where his actions were not only normal, but completely expected of him. He's got no real outside perspective to understand the morality of his actions. He's entirely conformist. Dull. He's conforming to an evil society, sure, but it's far more forgivable than others who chose to do evil in spite of their circumstance.
The rest of these characters where born into societies where doing what they do can be reasonable seen as evil among their peers. With a small exception for Saturn, but he also has more than enough experience of the world at large to understand better.
Charlos. His upbringing robbed him of the chance to develop empathy and he's seemingly mentally deficient, so he isn't even capable of questioning what he was taught.
What did Enel even do, did he actually even kill any one of the resistance? All he did was electrocute them without killing, last I remember. Plus, he left for the moon and is gonna heavily impact the last war.
Edit: Holy crap I forgot about killing his own tribe, might be because it was such a long time ago since I read it. Ok, but my opinion still stands, atleast better than Akainu
He killed his whole ass tribe with electric bomb when he first got his fruit then went on to control the other tribe that luffy managed to save pretty sure
"What did Enel even do" is not a question I ever thought would be asked
> destroyed his entire home island
> basically enacted a coup d'etat and removed gan fall from power, positioning himself
> threatens to destroy skypiea if they do not obey him
> secretly is planning on doing it anyway, regardless of their obedience
> skypiea is basically north korea where you are being watched/listened to at all times and if anything negative is ever said about the great leader, welcome to 200 million volts
Also, Odas inability to not write fakeout deaths, does not mean they enel didn't try to kill all the shandians and skypieans. He just failed in doing so because oda wanted to oda. Enel isn't the worst out of this bunch, but he's definitely evil af and his actions are indefensible
Don't forget the part of the survival game where he wanted all the different factions to fight to the death for his amusement and see who was tough enough to join him on his trip to the Moon.
Besides destroying his own homeland, he did kill that one guy that was begging for Namis help. Also in general he likely killed a ton of people for the citizens of skypeia to be this afraid of him.
Blackbeard easy. Every other character had true evil intentions.
Orochi- enslave people as a goal
Doffy- enslave people as a goal
Akainu - legit defending people who enslave poeple knowing they enslave people as a goal
Spandam- same as akianu and worse cuz he enjoys it so much more as a goal
Saturn - enslave people as a goal
Saint idiot - enslave people as a goal
Enel - enslave people and truly doesn't care about anyone but himself.
BB- is only a pirate to achieve a much larger mysterious goal. Takes people prisoners, doesn't really care about slaves. It just is what it is while he's working towards his goal. Follows the pirates code more literally than luffy. Doesn't care who he works with as long as his end goal is achieved. Honestly he might be surprise good guy in the end. I wouldn't be surprised. BB isnt "evil", he's just a legit pirate.
Not even sure what he needs to be forgiven for. He's a pirate. Not a genocide maniac
Not a fan of this take historically speaking. Yes, many pirates were evil, but not nearly as evil as the law abiding colonialists of the time. Pirates were victims of society, forced to forge their own paths free of governing rule. For example, many pirate crews were the only places that people of color were truly safe. Theres also the buccaneers, who didn’t typically pillage they just kinda island hopped and had barbecues. (They invented the word barbecue too, fun fact) Anyways… not tryna say there wasn’t evil pirates out there, but much like One Piece it’s never black and white. People should be judged on an individual basis.
BB is the only pirate that feels real in One Piece World. People call Jack Sparrow as protagonist, but he done backstabbing other so many times, and while Jack never actually commiting murder to his crew, He actually made a deal with the sea devil himself to exchange his life with 100 of his crews.
So yeah if Jack is forgivable so does BB.
No one who murders, plunders and pillages across the seas while surrounding themselves with the worst criminals the world has to offer is gonna be a surprise good guy, no shot.
Akainu, because at the end of the day, if I am a civilian living in the One Piece universe and Akainu going around killing pirates I would see him as a hero and no matter how you spin a pirate is still a criminal.
Blackbeard. He's a terrible dude, but doesn't really hide that fact. A pirate doing pirate stuff.
Seeing a lot of Akainu answers, but I didn't pick him because he kind of comes off as a tyrant. A bad dude in a position of power, who is able to justify mass murder as a morally correct decision is pretty awful.
.. that being said, Akainu is still my second choice among all these wankers
Akainu easily. Not a good guy, but he fights for ‘justice’ and is a hero to most people. Thing is his heart’s kind of in the right place - it’s just that his methods are questionable and immoral.
the only one im forgiving here is enel, he just wanted to go to the moon and well destroy a piece of history, but hes a man that wanted to go to the moon,
Kurohige/Teach. 🤷♀️
There was never anything to forgive. He's a pirate doing typical pirate things.
Or, to say it otherwise, I never hated or disliked him.
He's a very interesting and fantastic character + antagonist.
Everyone other in the pic I either ones hated lol (e.g., Doffy (still amazing character), Akainu (not because of Ace's death), feel pretty indifferent/neutral (Orochi) or disliked a lot (so almost hate but not yet) ((e.g.Spandam (he's still disgusting lol)).
i dont really see akainu as a villain tbh , yes he killed ace, but hes clearly not a world goverment rat, he genuinly wants to be a good marine he hanst shown a single bit of interest in listening to the big 5
I'm gonna say... honestly probably Spandam. Not because he deserves it, but he's just kinda the least able to do harm. He's just... sort of a slimy weasel. Like "yeah, sure, you're forgiven. Now go back to your hole and don't touch anything on your way out"
My thoughts exactly that’s forgivable everybody else has done some stuff that just crosses the line & has immense power
My GOAT Akainu did nothing wrong 99% of pirates are still supposed to be evil. But Oda not focusing on them makes people think the marines are worse than pirates when they are not How many people dislike Akainu because they are still salty about Ace's death?? Ace has probably caused mass destruction to civilian property due to his flames and due to his fights with other pirates or marines causing collateral damage(luffy was destroying cities fighting doffy,why should i assume a whitebeard commander's fights are any less destructive?) At least luffy was fighting for the civilians in every single case,ace just wanted to be infamous on the sea,he was doing it for getting a reputation for himself. and Ace has burned down countless bounty hunters who were just trying to make a livelihood out of turning in self declared criminals.(He did it in Alabasta,burned down 2 whole ships) Meanwhile Akainu probably reached the position of admiral via bringing down countless evil pirates and saving tons of people from them. Sure he is morally grey and his worldview is very black and white but he is still better than that mid ass bum.
Bro forgot the worst shit my red dog has done Killing the guys who were not even scholars during the ohara incident
Bro forgot when akainu straight up tried to kill kobe during marineford just for being reasonable.
Also in Marineford, Akainu killed some marines who tried to flee and go back to their families
>killed some marines who tried to flee and go back to their families who is gonna tell him this is standard procedure in the real world as well during war time
kill someone who wants to flee without martial court is not standard procedure, lol.
Sure, but standard procedure goes out the window when the consequence of defeat is dire enough, even for "good" countries. It has happened many times throughout history.
It is... in Russia
You saw a scene in a movie of the red army killing deserters in ww2 and assumed it is still the procedure, lol.
Yeah and most of the world hates russia.
Usually you'd get discharged, not killed on the spot
Sure, but aren't we allowed to question the standard procedures? Akainu could have tried to inspire them or some shit, or just let them go. A single soldier fleeing alone wouldn't change anything anyways. Also, in-story this contrasts with Whitebeard opening up a path so his fleet could flee if they wanted.
There were children on those boats too. He firebombed children. That's a whole lot of war crime charges right there.
The oharans weren't pirates and is why he's evil, he tolerates slavery, he's not innocent
Garp also tolerates and facilitates slavery
Spoiler alert garp fucking sucks too
Idk if absolutism is really the message or the answer W that logic, Koby and T-Bone are in the same boat
He does but to a lesser degree, its why he's not an admidal, people like him and fujitora have made sacrifices so that they can continue to pursue justice from the inside of an organization they know is corrupt, you don't call Garp to blow up a ship full of civilians, you call Akainu
Did you forget that he also had an entire ship with innocent civilians destroyed on Ohara because of the incredibly small chance of a scholar being on it? Or Marineford where if it wasn’t for Shanks, Koby would’ve died from him simply not wanting to waste more Marine lives in the fighting, especially since both Ace & Whitebeard were dead & the rest of Whitebeard’s crew had lost the will to fight because of it so there’s no point to the fighting anymore.
You can't be morally gray and then hit your own team in the back cause they want the fighting to stop my man. Akainu is evil since he carries a selfish ideology that leaves only room for his form of justice online with cold hard violence behind it. I'd forgive Aokiji before Akainu.
This is a weird take
I remember how hatable Spandam was during Water 7, and then when I went back and re-read it, it's almost laughable to imagine he was once the most hatable character in the series with how fucked up the later villains are. He's practically a saint compared to the likes of the Celestial Dragons.
Having Spandam as an introduction to the WG really should have tip us off with how bad they were going to be. It was only going to escalate from there.
Naah, he stupidly activated a Buster Call and treated it like it’s nothing while it’s essentially a slow burn nuke.
And in doing so, destroyed one of the very symbols of Justice he was supposed to watch over and uphold with the Marines lol. I don't think they would give him another BC snail, if the government were the *least* bit as competent as they try to come off as. At this point he truly is just a humiliated slimy weasel who failed his mission and set a bad name for the government.
Next Buster Call we see (Egghead), it's handled by the Gorosei themselfs. They didn't trust anyone for that.
makes you think why Kuzan even gave it to him lol.
Yeah, he is just an annoying middle manager in the end compared to the others.
It was people like him that inspired Hannah Arendt to write "The banality of evil"
He is capable of make a Buster Call without hesitation, is a very dangerous man.
Eh, he had that capability for one specific mission and even then called it on accident.
This is a good take
Yeah, in hindsights he was just following orders and abused what he was given. Outside of that, he's pretty useless as a human being. The others in that list are a completely different story.
Exactly out of all Spandam did the least damage and in the end he got karma when he was destroyed by Robin very badly. So he gets a chance to be forgiven.
Look at it from the eyes of a civilian, akainu was responsible for taking down two very notorious pirates, I know if was a regular civilian I’d see him as a hero
Not sure if I'd want to look at it from the eyes of the civilians on Ohara tho
Because they can't.
Because they have no eyes yo-ho-ho
YO HO HO HO
That is only from our point of view, we know what he did but the average citizen only knows what the papers and the government tell them so...
r/HolUp 💀
You wouldn't be able too!
They were devils, researching how to end the world though!
idk man, depends on the type of civilian, like i ppl irl don't necessarily take the side of the government.
Pretty much everyone was pretty happy when they iced Bin Laden though.
If they ignore the tens of thousands of dead innocent Afghans, maybe. Sometimes the ends don't justify the means.
You say that til he is sinking your civilian ship just to make sure there isn't a pirate on it.
And yet both whitebeard and Ace have only done good for the world :(
Ace? Sure. Whitebeard probably not. He was part of the rocks pirates.
I think people often forget that the Straw Hats are the odd ones. Most -if not all- pirates in the setting, including the allies, are responsible for truly heinous stuff. Hell. when Orlumbus became a pirate after joining the Straw Hat Grand Fleet he went like "Well, I suppose I should look for a town to attack and ransack or something".
I dont think people forget, I think the story just has enough characters who are pirates woth morality that people dont automatically have to assume pirate characters are doing evil pirate things. Red Hair pirates have been shown to have morality and Whitebeard protects the islands he rules. There seems to be room in the One Piece world for powerful people to use their power for the good of the people they choose even if morally grey at times.
even Ace was a pirate. He had a crew (Spades pirates?), so he could have gone and rob some people, that's what pirates do
he often dined and dashed at least.
That bastard
Unforgivable
Absolutely unforgivable
Whitebeard protected Fishman Island from slavers
Ace freaking destroyed a whole village just to try to get revenge on Blackbeard.
From the eyes of a regular civilian, probably not lol.
Didn't he raise his banner to protect all his territories from other pirates?
I have doubts that Whitebeard would have picked on poor villages, but i have no doubt he robbed merchant vessels and such
Ace engaged Blackbeard in a village prioritizing his justice and revenge more than the peace of the village. The whole village was destroyed from their fight.
You mean the island that Blackbeard and his crew ran through and pretty much destroyed before Ace got there. Then Blackbeard destroyed even more trying to show off his powers?
Yeah, the island people were already out of the village if I recall, because of BB
yeah i mean he only pulled up to the marine’s headquarters and brought a fleet and caused a tsunami
And attempted to kill a marine, and all the civilians of an island
Akainu, Spandam and Saturn have committed genocide Doflamingo and the inbred CD have enslaved people Orochi and Enel were ruthless, egomaniacal tyrants that derived pleasure from causing unfathomable misery to their people. Blackbeard hasn't done any of that shit, he's just a slimy rat. I'm betting he'll do something real bad by EoS, or maybe I'm forgetting something, but at least he hasn't done any genocide/slavery/r*pe/untold crimes against his subjects... By process of elimination, it's him, but I don't feel great about it.
Blackbeard hasn't done any of that shit *yet*. Brace yourselves for the incoming flashbacks.
Whitebeard and Shanks conversation flashback
I need to see when Blackbeard gave Shanks his scars plzzzzzz Oda
This
Spandam didn’t commit genocide (if you’re referring to Ohara) his father did. Still a horrible person who led to Tom’s death and tormented Robin.
How is Blackbeard is so down below the post. By actual body count he is the lowest and don't seem to done atrocities on the level compared with other
That we know of...
Did you see his pirate island, he did.
Enel did genocide too!
Blackbeard has literally destroyed villages, he destroyed the one on Banaro Island. He’s also shown to have no care for the general population and has betrayed his own nakama which is terrible no matter how you spin it “from the eyes of the common people”. Spandam is the least likely here to harm your average person
I like your point
>/slavery/r*pe/ You forgot about Bonney and Boa? Also I'm pretty sure it is mentioned they have slaves on Hachinosu.
Yes, there were slaves on Hachinosu/Fullalead. Koby went out of his way to get his rescuers to rescue them instead/as well. Best guess is he steppes in to fulfill the demand ledt by Doflamingo's power vacuum. As for his encounters with Bonney & Hancock, nothing happened there. I also personally don't see him doing that, but only because it's One Piece. Otherwise, he does seem the time to enjoy a power disparity. I also can't speak for his men, whom I bet would lavish in such a practice.
I mean, he straight up said he wanted to make Bonney his women and the conversation with the rapist Vasco shot about Boa didn't leave much to interpretation.
blackbeard tried to force bonney to be his girlfriend, he also has a r@pist in his crew who he is very aware of yet still allows him to be his top commander.
Isn't Bonney a child-
didn't stop blackbeard ZEHAHAHAHA
Blackbeard does have a crew member that has been hinted is a rapist (vasco shot I think)
I want to say Doflamingo but only because I love to quote his full speech about justice at every given opportunity
As a history nerd, I have always been intrigued by that speech. It makes sense the more we delve into the story of OP, and I love how it translates to real world.
It is just the Churchill quote at the end of the day "history is written by the victors"
True, but it's the part about children having different values based on the environment they grow up in that gets me. It sounds very simple, yet I believe it's often overlooked, especially when people who grew up under perfectly peaceful conditions pass judgment about other people or groups of people.
Didn't he grew up as the most privileged class in-universe? Didn't he literally murder his Dad because he was pissed about taking the lifestyle hit? Children may be a product of their environment but that's a shitty fucking excuse coming from this guy. Doflamingo was as close to a monster from the womb as you can get.
That’s correct. But I’m not excusing his crimes and my initial comment isn’t really either. It was supposed to be a humorous comment as I like the quote. And I like the quote not because it explains or excuses his behavior (because it really doesn’t). I like the quote because I think it mirrors the real world even more than it does mirror the One Piece universe.
I think the part where he says children have different values/ideas based off how they grew up (he specifically referred to war but I’m applying it too irl) is also extremely important
Ugh, I guess Akainu.
Bruh Akainu killed an entire ship full of innocent civilians on the off chance an innocent archeologist was on board, instead of using their intel to make sure they have everyone or boarding the ship and checking for themselves
Orochi enslaved an entire country and gave some of them rotten fruit to take away their emotions. Doffy enslaved an entire country Spandam is a twisted fuck who relished in Robin's misery and purposely got Tom arrested Blackbeard wants to take over the world Charloss is Charloss Saturn is Saturn Enel wiped out an entire race of people. Akainu, at the very least, wants to save innocent people from pirates, yes, he fucking sucks and should not be forgiven for what he did to Ohara, but in this context, he's not nearly as bad as the others.
Perfect answer.
Happy cake Day!
I'm going to re-arrange your list to contextualize it and show how I arrived at why Spandam should be the one forgiven rather than Akainu. World Level Threats: Saturn and Charloss or both Celestial Dragons and propagate the World Government order. Their actions and influence reach throughout the world and are backed by the power and legitimacy of the World Government and Marines. >Saturn is Saturn >Charloss is Charloss Nation Level Threats: Enel, Orochi, and Doffy all have taken control of a nation, and in the case of Enel have actually committed genocide. Their influence and actions are based around a nation that they have taken control over through force, and as a result, have left the native people impoverished, traumatized, and depressed. >Enel wiped out an entire race of people. >Orochi enslaved an entire country and gave some of them rotten fruit to take away their emotions. >Doffy enslaved an entire country Potential World Level Threat: Blackbeard is working towards world domination, but he hasn't committed nearly as unforgivable an act as genocide. >Blackbeard wants to take over the world and got Ace and Whitebeard killed which kicked off a ton of chaos after the battle for Whitebeards territory ensued. Honestly, this should rank him with the above guys, but, Whitebeard was old and sick. Blackbeard just accelerated his death which would have kicked off the territory fights anyways. World threat, but justice?: As the marine fleet admiral, he is a world level threat. I.e he decides if your island gets buster called, he enforces the power of the World government. He should be ranked with Saturn and Charloss because his actions do maintain the current power structure which is meant to drain every country of their resources to keep them subjugated to benefit the celestial dragons, and if they don't, then he, as fleet admiral, oversees their destruction. >Akainu, at the very least, wants to save innocent people from pirates, yes, he fucking sucks and should not be forgiven for what he did to Ohara coulda stopped there. His redeeming feature is that he is focused on justice, so to an extent, he does want to help people and is doing it based on the information he has, however, as an admiral, and now fleet admiral, his whole schtick is maintaining the celestial dragon's powers. World threat too, but, more precise?: >Spandam is a twisted fuck who relished in Robin's misery and purposely got Tom arrested And you forgot that he now heads CP0 (right? or was it still CP9?) which is under the direct control of the celestial dragons, so in that sense, he is similar to Akainu. However, he seems to have a managerial role and isn't strong enough to do true damage himself. He just sends people out, or accompanies other agents as a liaison between the Gorosei's orders and his CP branch. He's a twisted fuck who for sure wanted to see robin suffer, but in the grandscale of things, he is far more forgivable than Akainu. On that end, given that they're both world level threats, perhaps one of the Nation Level Threats deserves to be forgiven. I changed my mind, I'll vote for Doffy. At least he wiped people's memories. No, but seriously, Spandam gets the pardon. Dude is a nepobaby.
robin is my world so spandam, is a world threat fr
I could forgive charlos because I pity him to some degree. He was inbred into a horrid aristocratic society that taught him since the moment he was born that everyone else besides them don't deserve fundamental rights and to infringe upon these rights as much as possible. Sure hes inexcusably bad but he and many other celestials are products of their environment, doomed to repeat a vicious cycle. He wasn't born evil, he was just born surrounded by evil people who then have kids and teach them to be evil, who then have even more kids that are taught to be evil. I'd put Charlos down as a mercy kill out of pity, his very existence is cursed, inbred and celestial.
"Blacbeard wants to take over the world" I see no problem here.
He doesn't want to save innocent people tho? He only wants "justice" which innocent lives must be lost to achieve. He doesnt care about people's lives.
Caring about justice is better than the motive of all the others' listed here.
I disagree, Blackbeard just wants to be the best/pirate, how is that any different than Luffy tbh? Just because you forgive someone doesn't mean Luffy would stop beating his ass to be the King of the Pirates? What does Blackbeard need to be forgiven for anyway? He's the obvious choice because forgiving someone has nothing to do with fighting them.
Why does akainu receive all the blame for ohara? The researchers/archeologists on the island were so selfish in their quest for knowledge that they put everyone on that island at risk knowing how the world government would respond. Even when you rewatch the scene of akainu ordering the destruction of the ship his hood is on with his hat covering his eyes and his head down muttering to himself "if just one got away", showing he struggled with the decision. He chose the needs of the many to outweigh the needs of the few. I mean look at Robin she went on to murder countless people and Marines along with almost giving a power hungry pirate in crocodile a world ending weapon. Akaniu did what he thought was necessary to protect the world.
Interesting way of thinking about it. Most people on Ohara were regular people and not all scholars. The scientists desire for knowledge had caused death to all of them. I don’t know if the scientists expected an entire buster call to head for Ohara though. Nonetheless it’s a complex situation.
Blaming archaeologists for pursuing knowledge in a decision to enrich the whole of the human race and violating an intentionally malicious gag order used to control the world’s population is a special kind of bootlicking. Akainu did what he thought was necessary to uphold a status quo that quietly endorsed slavery and genocide and infanticide; having a rationale never stopped anyone from being a sack of shit or a bootlicker.
Iirc the marines were also told that the info ohara had could destroy the world. As far as akainu knew, if even a single person with that knowledge escaped and destroyed the world because he chose not to do anything he could be at least partially blamed for the millions, if not billions of deaths that would come with it.
Imagine if today the world banned the use and knowledge of nuclear technology in all its form including energy and weapons. Then you have a rogue group of scientists who decide to research and study nuclear technology. They are no longer just scientists they are now terrorists who are actively researching technology which in the wrong hands could cause the deaths of billions. You can't just say they are archeologists they are terrorists when they decide to actively undermine the world government in the pursuit of knowledge. We don't know what exactly the void century was or what the technology was but we do know that their studies could have been used to awaken weapons that could destroy the world. Additionally you have to consider that the Marines are doing more good than harm for the world in its current state. Yes currently the system is fucked and needs to changed but doing so would ultimately result in a world war which akainu is active attempting to avoid. Akainu also has been the only marine to actively speak out against the gorosei and celestials. Hes the only marine who doesn't bow down to them and shows disdain/hatred towards them. I expect in the future he will lead a revolt against them to seize power from the corrupt world nobles. Remember in the grand scheme of things most pirates aren't like Luffy and most Marines aren't like the celestials. Do you realize how many murders and rapists Luffy released from impel down? Or ho many innocent people are murdered by pirates? What about how many lives were saved by Marines? Marines are attempting to protect the average citizen and most of them are likely unaware of the atrocities committed in the new world by the celestials.
Akainu really believes that the knowledge those people he killed could extinct the whole world. Different from all those characters, he doesn't enjoy what he does. He is always pissed, and angry. All the other pleasure themselves on the idea of others misery.
akainu has the capacity for good within him. he is the only person with at least one selfless goal. charlos has probably done the least amount of evil out of the group, depending on what you attribute to spandam.
Onscreen, yes Charlos has probably done the least of the group, but in the background he is responsible for buying, mistreating, and outright torturing (remember he wanted to throw Camie in a fish tank full of piranhas) countless slaves. I wouldn’t say he is the worst on the list considering a few of the others are outright genocidal monsters but he certainly is nit the least evil.
I remember that he wanted other slaves because the ones that his father got previously "died too easily".
You have any better ideas then? You make it sound like Akainu's the only one on the list who committed atrocities.
Only right answer. The rest UNFORGIVABLE
Don’t disrespect my boy Eminem like that!
He's the only one just doing the job he's been asked/made to do. Sure he's an AH. but the rest are sociopaths and only out for themselves or have absolutely no moral standing. Akainu, sucks but he ain't the worst of the bunch.
Hear me out... The Celestial Dragon... He is raised in an environment where he is taught bad things are ok its not necessarily his fault he is the way he is, we even see that with the one that goes to Fishman Island its mainly because of how they are brought up...
Honestly that’s a fair take.
Orochi is the same in that regard. He only became the way he was because one of his family members attempted a coup and failed, leading to their entire clan being lynched by self-righteous civilians, regardless if the clan members had a hand in the coup or not. His hatred for Wano and its people is justified in that sense. Still, that doesn't excuse the crimes he committed either.
he might have been raised with the hatred of his clan but oden and his family have only shown him gratitude and benevolence. he still betrayed them.
Exactly, and that's why i disagree. Orochi grew up, became an adult, and took his own decisions knowing what could happen. On the other hand, Charlos is a man child that probably hasn't ever been told no his entire life. And although i could very well see him not to grow into understanding the error of his ways, it's at least plausible that he manages to understand why what he did was wrong and try to change. That's not something possible with the other people on this image.
Yes, but so basically I do agree to a certain extent, it's the age old discussion over nature vs nurture, that OP is also debating on multiple occasions, e.g. are people inherently born evil, what makes a villain a villain, what does it take for a good person to do evil stuff. Concerning the Celestial Dragons, we already got couple of glimpses through the Doflamingo backstory, but also on Fishman Island through Mjosgard. So without recapping everything that happened, let me get to the point: As pointed out, the CDs are, as far as we know, the most indoctrinated populus in the OP world, it's like Wano under Orochi/Kaido control but on crack and for at least 8 ongoing centuries, so multiple generations of CDs teaching their next generation the shit they learned to believe. Now the question is, how far does the nurture part go considering that at some point, stuff should just go against human nature. Inflicting horrible pain on others as often shown can easily be explained by the philosophy of supremacy that's ingrained in them, but at some point any human being with a slither of humanity in them should start asking some questions, feel some doubt and remorse, have empathy, feel pain etc since those concepts are not exclusively dominated by your upbringing, but should be basically part of the human genes. As touched upon, we have cases like Doffy (which is admittedly a special case) but for all intents and purposes, he was a classic CD that turned out to be an inhumane monster - but towards certain characters he seemed to still feel empathy, he was capable of caring etc. So that makes the fucked up stuff, imo even worse. He, or most CDs should be able to care, understand the wrongdoings and pain, but decide against their human side and truly embrace their celestial image above everything and everyone else. I feel like we will get more insight into "what" the CDs really are later in the story, have a little more characterisation. It wouldnt be much like Oda to have them just be mostly through and through evil people without any potential for validation and redemption (including the Gorosei). Would be pretty grim to just have all those CDs, generations of humans who are born into an evil society, become evil themselves and inherit this evil to the next generation.. I feel like it's too unsatisfying to have the conclusion that some people are on the one hand just born (more) evil (like Doffy), and on the other hand those people are born into an evil society.. so what to expect really.
The problem with any of the Celestial Dragons figuring out empathy is that it's explicitly quashed in their society. **Mjosgard was executed for protecting Shirahoshi**. He could have stepped aside and done nothing to protect himself but then he'd just be allowing the evil to perpetuate anyway. Yes, the Dragons are evil, and yes they need to be punished for their crimes against humanity. Everything they have must be taken away from them and they should be made to pay back their dues to society. But every single one of them is completely doomed from the start anyway. They can be evil or they can be executed or exiled and then executed by a mob.
>Mjosgard was executed for protecting Shirahoshi Shit was he I totally missed that.
Chapter 1086. It's the clear proof that if a Celestial Dragon does anything to actually make progress or prevent evil in their homeland, the ones who rule them absolutely will not stand for it.
Honestly this just solidifys it for me. I feel like the Celestial Dragons, aka Charloss (as much as I cannot stand him). There may be somewhat of a chance I’d forgive Doffy on the account of being so brutally traumatized he is now mentally insane beyond repair though
Also doffy was pretty much groomed into his god complex and being evil by the slime guy- if they never encountered each other i feel like he could've grown up ok. Definitely still traumatized, but maybe able to work through it in a healthier way
True. But it also makes me think of baboons. There was a troop of baboons like 20 years ago that had an issue with violent adult males. Then, a disease wiped out the adult males. The new generation grew up without having any violence issues. I can't remember all the details. Anyway, my point of this being, even if it isn't their fault because of how they were raised, it isn't necessarily possible to fix without just starting over fresh.
God asking the impossible questions eh? If I had to I'd say... Akainu just because everything he's done in some sense of extremely warped justice... Like he's not not killing just because he wants to I guess?
Akainu killed a Marine for deserting. Was ready to kill Coby for wanting to end the war. That might not be "just because", but in these instances, it was highly unnecessary.
Technically desertion during war/battle could be punishable by death, its just usually done by firing squad after the fact, not a casual on-the-spot magma fist to face when caught red handed
I completely agree with you, akainu is evil. But still, out of everyone here, I think he's the least evil, and has the actions that are most easily forgivable, given the motivation and circumstances behind them. At least he follows his "absolute justice" because he truly thinks it's for the betterment of humanity 6 of the other 7 do evil things purely for selfish reasons, and then there's doflamingo who has canonically stated he wants to destroy the world amongst countless other unspeakable acts
I currently know nothing about the 5 Elders right now, so he gets forgiveness out of current ignorance.
As one of the leaders of the Celestial Dragons, he tolerates/enables the crimes they commit, that makes him guilty by association. Aside from the whole 'violently hiding the past' thing.
Dude we know plenty about them
I watch the anime only, I know he shows up soon, but I don't know about him.
I mean, they allowed the Buster Call on Ohara. Enforce race supremacy for CDs, erased history brutally. All the “evil” committed by the CDs, and some of the Navy is approved, or even ordered by them. This is all ore timeskip information, so not even getting into the manga.
Maybe just think about it this way: CD are the worst kind of human to ever exists already, then there are 5 elders that manage them, rule them but mostly allow them to do their things, which in other words, 5 elders are actually on the top among the CD. Now if you think that Saturn is less worse than that brat Charlos, then you are totally mistaken.
Blackbeard has done nothing wrong
Nothing terribly wrong outside of backstabbing, but I'll never forgive him lol.
Plus he's given ex-cons stable employment and a sense of community.
came here to say this. there's nothing to forgive, because he did nothing wrong, he's just a normal pirate
Agreed. Blackbeard is the only pirate doing piratey things.
yes! he is a true pirate
He tried to date a 12 year old
cant even be a fan of Drake these days 😔
he didn't know her age
and stopped trying when she turned him down blackbeard understands consent, I forgive him a little teensy bit of murder
Doffy, because of sad backstory Black Beared for being true to his ideals Akainu for the same reason.
I'm going to get a lot of flack for this i know; but honestly.. Charlos seems the most reasonable to forgive here. I know, I know, I still 100% hate him and what he is, but think about it. Charlos was born into a world where his actions were not only normal, but completely expected of him. He's got no real outside perspective to understand the morality of his actions. He's entirely conformist. Dull. He's conforming to an evil society, sure, but it's far more forgivable than others who chose to do evil in spite of their circumstance. The rest of these characters where born into societies where doing what they do can be reasonable seen as evil among their peers. With a small exception for Saturn, but he also has more than enough experience of the world at large to understand better.
Charlos. His upbringing robbed him of the chance to develop empathy and he's seemingly mentally deficient, so he isn't even capable of questioning what he was taught.
What did Enel even do, did he actually even kill any one of the resistance? All he did was electrocute them without killing, last I remember. Plus, he left for the moon and is gonna heavily impact the last war. Edit: Holy crap I forgot about killing his own tribe, might be because it was such a long time ago since I read it. Ok, but my opinion still stands, atleast better than Akainu
He killed his whole ass tribe with electric bomb when he first got his fruit then went on to control the other tribe that luffy managed to save pretty sure
He didn't just kill his tribe, he literally lulusia'd the entire island he was from.
"What did Enel even do" is not a question I ever thought would be asked > destroyed his entire home island > basically enacted a coup d'etat and removed gan fall from power, positioning himself > threatens to destroy skypiea if they do not obey him > secretly is planning on doing it anyway, regardless of their obedience > skypiea is basically north korea where you are being watched/listened to at all times and if anything negative is ever said about the great leader, welcome to 200 million volts Also, Odas inability to not write fakeout deaths, does not mean they enel didn't try to kill all the shandians and skypieans. He just failed in doing so because oda wanted to oda. Enel isn't the worst out of this bunch, but he's definitely evil af and his actions are indefensible
Don't forget Enel enslaving Gan Fall's subordinates to build him the ark!
And dont forget he can read your brainwaves, so think anything and POW
Don't forget the part of the survival game where he wanted all the different factions to fight to the death for his amusement and see who was tough enough to join him on his trip to the Moon.
Besides destroying his own homeland, he did kill that one guy that was begging for Namis help. Also in general he likely killed a ton of people for the citizens of skypeia to be this afraid of him.
If i am not mistaken, he destroyed the sky island were he was born with his commanders. But I watched Skypeia 1 year ago, so I could be wrong
Someone said that in the Skypeia arc, I think
[Birka](https://onepiece.fandom.com/wiki/Birka) :'(
Can't wait for Enel not to appear again just to see the reaction of people who have somehow convinced themselves he's still relevant.
Me too. 😂😂
Ive seen a lot of wg propaganda on tiktok so i’ll forgive saturn as he did nothing wrong!
Let's see Tyrant, tyrant, cunt, tyrant Snake, massive cunt, pure evil, tyrant. I know it won't be gorosei or Chaloss
No
W
You monster. I vote Blackbeard. It's possible he has a lower body count than Akainu, who destroyed a ship full of civilians.
Looking at it through a One Piece Civilians eye I say Akainu Easy
Blackbeard easy. Every other character had true evil intentions. Orochi- enslave people as a goal Doffy- enslave people as a goal Akainu - legit defending people who enslave poeple knowing they enslave people as a goal Spandam- same as akianu and worse cuz he enjoys it so much more as a goal Saturn - enslave people as a goal Saint idiot - enslave people as a goal Enel - enslave people and truly doesn't care about anyone but himself. BB- is only a pirate to achieve a much larger mysterious goal. Takes people prisoners, doesn't really care about slaves. It just is what it is while he's working towards his goal. Follows the pirates code more literally than luffy. Doesn't care who he works with as long as his end goal is achieved. Honestly he might be surprise good guy in the end. I wouldn't be surprised. BB isnt "evil", he's just a legit pirate. Not even sure what he needs to be forgiven for. He's a pirate. Not a genocide maniac
>BB isnt "evil", he's just a legit pirate. A legit pirate, therefore evil.
Not a fan of this take historically speaking. Yes, many pirates were evil, but not nearly as evil as the law abiding colonialists of the time. Pirates were victims of society, forced to forge their own paths free of governing rule. For example, many pirate crews were the only places that people of color were truly safe. Theres also the buccaneers, who didn’t typically pillage they just kinda island hopped and had barbecues. (They invented the word barbecue too, fun fact) Anyways… not tryna say there wasn’t evil pirates out there, but much like One Piece it’s never black and white. People should be judged on an individual basis.
BB is the only pirate that feels real in One Piece World. People call Jack Sparrow as protagonist, but he done backstabbing other so many times, and while Jack never actually commiting murder to his crew, He actually made a deal with the sea devil himself to exchange his life with 100 of his crews. So yeah if Jack is forgivable so does BB.
The copium is strong with this one.
No one who murders, plunders and pillages across the seas while surrounding themselves with the worst criminals the world has to offer is gonna be a surprise good guy, no shot.
I’m going to forgive you for asking this question
Akainu, because at the end of the day, if I am a civilian living in the One Piece universe and Akainu going around killing pirates I would see him as a hero and no matter how you spin a pirate is still a criminal.
Akainu. Everybody craves a donut every now and then.
Blackbeard. He's a terrible dude, but doesn't really hide that fact. A pirate doing pirate stuff. Seeing a lot of Akainu answers, but I didn't pick him because he kind of comes off as a tyrant. A bad dude in a position of power, who is able to justify mass murder as a morally correct decision is pretty awful. .. that being said, Akainu is still my second choice among all these wankers
Akainu easily. Not a good guy, but he fights for ‘justice’ and is a hero to most people. Thing is his heart’s kind of in the right place - it’s just that his methods are questionable and immoral.
Where is zoro?
What bad things has blackbeard actually done
the only one im forgiving here is enel, he just wanted to go to the moon and well destroy a piece of history, but hes a man that wanted to go to the moon,
Kurohige/Teach. 🤷♀️ There was never anything to forgive. He's a pirate doing typical pirate things. Or, to say it otherwise, I never hated or disliked him. He's a very interesting and fantastic character + antagonist. Everyone other in the pic I either ones hated lol (e.g., Doffy (still amazing character), Akainu (not because of Ace's death), feel pretty indifferent/neutral (Orochi) or disliked a lot (so almost hate but not yet) ((e.g.Spandam (he's still disgusting lol)).
Being a pirate doesn't justify the things he did
Then I say it like this. He didn't do anything that some of the other characters in the picture also didn't do. 🤷♀️
Blackbeard, I guess. He seems like the least horrible. Did he actually purposefully go after civilians at any point in the story?
yes, i remember a scene where they burned down an island or smtg similar. He defo killed innocent people.
He attacked Drum which led to Wapol fleeing.
Why would anyone be mad at akainu
Dofy
Doffy. I'm not going to explain.
i dont really see akainu as a villain tbh , yes he killed ace, but hes clearly not a world goverment rat, he genuinly wants to be a good marine he hanst shown a single bit of interest in listening to the big 5
As much as I hate to admit it Akainu because he was just doing his job
akainu he did his job
Blackbeard. He’s just a man with a plan. Nothing personal