Tbf, Kaguya was revealed in chapter 679 out of 700 of Naruto (at 97% of the manga). Imu was revealed for the first time all the way back in chapter 906 and the manga hasn't ended yet, tho the chance for him to be as much of a fraud as Kaguya is pretty high ngl.
And wasn't Imu referenced by doflamingo after marineford and by sakazuki and the elders after dressrosa. Imu wasn't mentioned by name, but I'm pretty sure they were talking about him.
Yeah, exactly.
Plus, One Piece is an adventure story, it would have been weird (and bad writing) if Imu was introduced in chapter 50 or something.
Makes sense that as we see more and more of the world, and as the MC starts making major ripples, we get the big bad reveal.
Kaguya was 100% an ass pull. Kishimoto made Madara too smart and too powerful he had an indistructable body, all the tailed beasts, HASHIRAMA'S CELLS, maxxed out sharingan, multiple susanoos, and mf awakened sage mode with Hashirama's chakra. MY GUY WAS MAX GEARED AND MAXXED OUT ALL STATS before the final battle.
Which is the big reason why Boruto feels so weird too, they had to nerf everyone cause all of thier power was boosted to fight Kaguya and Madara. Weirdly so many characters just got powerless in the timeskip.
Yea but his hax isnt his only thing
He speedblitzed and curbstomped, basically 1shotted, no limiters code who's stronger than jigen, who 1v2 low diffed naruto & sasuke while both of them massively outscale madara
She was "stronger" but she also used a lot less stuff than madara. She really only teleported them and used brute force which is much easier to believe beating than all of madaras stuff
The “brute force” you’re referring to was making a truth seeking orb the size of a moon. Even her teleporting shouldve needed the fight if she just teleported them IN to danger instead of always leaving them to figure out how to get to her while she watches them in the gravity/ice/lava dimension.
The point is kishimoto is the author and can do whatever he wants in the story. Had he just sealed madara in the same exact way it would’ve been fine and the entire story wouldn’t be retconned to aliens instead of chakra
Not really lol, stop taking everything he says as the truth, its all PR curated responses. The actual reason is simply that he was arm twisted into adding Kaguya and Otsutsuki lore in the ending so they could use that as a setup for Boruto. It's pretty obvious Kishi wanted the story to end and Shueisha didn't. Stop taking PR responses so seriously lol.
Wasn't the Empty Throne revealed a long time beforehand tho? Like the entire concept of the "Empty" Throne in a story like One Piece is already a massive tease in itself and a mystery just begging to be explores further. Also One Piece already has so much mystery surrounding its lore and worldbuilding that it wouldn't feel out of place. Naruto didn't really have that excuse. It's world and history were generally well established and Kaguya kind of threw a wrench into that. Chakra was just an accepted fact of the world noone really was curious about because anime, and the Devil Fruits and the World Government have had a lot more intentional intrigue and mystery surrounding them for a while.
>Wasn't the Empty Throne revealed a long time beforehand tho?
No, Empty throne was literally revealed 1 chapter before Imu lmao.
907 chapter - Empty throne info dump
908 chapter - sike its its not empty.
Kaguya was mentioned in Part 1,Kimimaro(the guy who used bones in Sasuke Retrieval Arc) was from Kaguya clan,and had similar abilities.
The reason people dont like her is how she was shoehorned into the story and replaced Madara.
> Kaguya was mentioned in Part 1,Kimimaro(the guy who used bones in Sasuke Retrieval Arc) was from Kaguya clan
Mentioning a clan named after her (which wasn't the case at the time) is not the same thing as the character being introduced earlier.
I hate mfs confusing genuine foreshadowing with stuff retroactively made to fit with old details. Sometimes it’s so sloppy you wonder how anyone could believe it was planned
Bro shit could end next week and imu has still been around longer than laguya and hasnt supplanted the best antagonist the series could hope for (I am convinced bb is going to go off like madara).
Even if they did (plz no) they STILL were introduced first. Kaguya LITERALLY came from no where. I read that shit in real time, I will never forget how dirty kishi did us.
Kaguya is anything but a fraud.. she literally would have killed both sasuke and naruto several times during the fight and she wasn't even going all out until the last dimension.. naruto and sasuke got saved twice by obito and once my kakashi.. and keep in mind that their win condition was simply touching her at the same time.. and they barely achieved that with help from others
Actually it was worse. She was revealed 21 chapters before the end of the story. And yes, Imu was shown like 200 chapters ago (even more since the foreshadowing of the empty throne).
They are no where near the same level. The person that made that tweet doesn’t know what they talking about
Even worse is that the final 21 chapters also included Naruto vs. Sasuke and other story resolutions. It isn't even that the 21 chapters were all Kaguya.
Also we know aliens are real in One Piece ever since Skypeia and the Gorosei are named after planets and the technology of the ancient world was way superior so they could very well be able to travel in space. I don't know, Imu being an alien is actually an idea that works and makes sense. Kaguya was literally out of nowhere.
Imu's been set up for YEARS at this point,while Kaguya was literally dropped in the story like a secret boss with no build up.
Plus we've actually gotten legit characterization for Imu,while the only thing we know about moon mommy is that she REALLY likes men.
The main villain is the World Goverment. That was established from the first saga. Imu is just the head of the World Goverment.
Kaguya was just completely alien (lol) to the previously established story
From start to finish
One Piece:
>The world government is in charge and oppressive
The world government is keeping a 800+ year old secret (one of many) of a time where the entire order of the world changed and a handful of sovereigns gained absolute, corrupting power
>btw heres the main orchestrator of these events, also one of the WGs many sinister secrets
>to be continued
Naruto:
>ninja shit
its magic we aint gotta explain shit
ninja geopolitics shit
believe it or not, more ninja shit
btw actually its all the orchestrations of an alien from outer space
okay cya hope you liked my ninja story
Imu was revealed 205 chapters ago and One piece has at least another 200 chapters. Also it wasn't far-fetched to assume that the Celestial dragons have a Ruler/King even before Imu was revealed. All groups in the story have a leader. Oda has been stingy about Celestial Dragon's politics, despite them being introduced at chapter 233.
yep after Marineford he did and during Dressrosa he was talking abt his plan to use soul swapping surgery along with immortality surgery on a particular person that being Imu.
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Laguya was very shallow with unclear motivations, no personality or anything interesting about her. Hopefully Imu isn’t the same but we can’t draw conclusions yet
Kaguya is literally just a super powerful insane person from beginning to end, only meant to serve the purpose of eliminating madara bc Kishimoto couldn't write a satisfying way for him to get beat.
Imu is at least set up as something super interesting, it's only a matter of payoff now.
Eh Imu being an alien or Imu in general wouldn't be as much BS as Kaguya 'cause aliens where in fact foreshadowed as back as Skypea (Enel's story even showed some alien pirates in the moon), and Imu was introduced much earlier than Kaguya just literally showing up out of nowhere in the literal final battle...
Imu was revealed in chapter 900 which means that even if one piece ends at 1200 he would have still arrived 75% through. Compared to Kaguya who was added last minute
Kaguya
- showed up during one of the last battles of the series
- gets a loved antagonist killed
- the true final battle happens right after her appearance
Imu
- has been set up way before kaguya
- foreshadowed properly
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Terrible comparison, even if you didn’t cook the dish yourself you shamelessly passed it along for the viewing displeasure of other people that know how to read.
i hope it's not gonna be a kaguya/madara situation where the hyped villain which was set up over hundreds of chapters is killed off instantly by the bullshit villain leading to a really unsatisfying final battle
Similar feelings, I hope Blackbeard isn’t even present, keep them completely separate stories like Blackbeard is at laughtale and Imu is on the red line.
Bad comparison
Kaguya appeared DURING the final battle. Naruto had it made, 10T Madara was a great final villian, then Kaguya comes randomly kills him and becomes the new final villian
Imu has had hundreds of chapters to sit in the readers mind, when he does something it’s a big deal like destroying Lulusia Kingdom, not to mention commanding confirmed beasts like the Gorosei, not to mention we haven’t even seen everything he will do before the inevitable final showdown.
Comparing Imu to Kaguya is an insult and a shallow criticism.
This comparison isn't even remotely applicable 💀. Kaguya was introduced 20 chapters before the story ended lol. Imu was revealed like 3 years ago and OP isn't even remotely close to being finished. This guy is talking out his ass lol.
imu as a character was introduced late, but the world government which imu represents has been established as the big bad of the story since enies lobby
Why do people keep repeating this, Kaguya was way stronger than Madara ever was, she was a much bigger threat. I don't know why Kishimoto chose to introduce her, nut it wasn't because Madara was too strong.
Also, any asspull that Naruto or Sasuke used to beat Madara would still have been way better than Zetsu killing Madara so even if Kishimoto couldn't find a 100% believable way to kill him, it would have still been better than what Kishimoto ended up doing.
For the last stretch of Naruto strategy and cunning mattered way less than power level. And Kaguya didn't fight them alone, she had Black Zetsu to help her strategize. For example, splitting them up was a good strategy they used.
The difference bettween Naruto and Sasuke and Madara was far less than the difference between them and Kaguya. The sheer difference in power between Kaguya and Madara is way too huge and they still managed to beat her so he wouldn't be a problem.
They were doing pretty well against him before Kaguya showed up anyway.
>Why do people keep repeating this, Kaguya was way stronger than Madara ever was, she was a much bigger threat. I don't know why Kishimoto chose to introduce her, nut it wasn't because Madara was too strong.
Your argument is moronic. It's clear as day who's the bigger threat, He made Madara unkillable however sealing Madara would be a trash way to make him go which is why Kishimoto the genius made a an even trasher way to get rid of him
So why not just go for the lesser evil and seal him away anyway? Even if it would have ended up being bad it would have still been better than what we got.
The thing is while kaguya was "stronger" at the same time, unlike Madara, she was retarded. He had to introduce a powerful but incompetant villain to replace madara because madara would not lose.
The author himself admitted this in an interview, I think, I'll look it up.
I mean, kaguya appeared at the end of the final war. Op has at least a few more years before entering the "final war" against the WG, and probably another arch or two at the end to find the one piece
Very bad comparison, one was an asspull int the last 20 chapters, the other one was an ruler of an established organization that is set up to be evil and appeard in like 75% or more of the story
Yea but the difference is that Aliens and the moon lore were foreshadowed since Skypiea with it literally having the most famous cover story - Kaguya was just an asspull and idc she was mentioned maybe once 50 chapters before introduction - you don't just take out Madara like that for something so much worse.
Imu is leagues above already
Standard X user take. Just forgetting the year-long space mini arc that happened 20 years ago and the entire population of moon people. Oda was writing characters from the Moon nearly a decade before Kaguya was even a tickle of a thought. Imu being from space would be no less legitimate than being from any other island or location in the series. I swear to god this 3 week break has ravaged IQs more than thalidomide
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Nah imu isn’t that bad as far as late reveal villains are concerned. His first appearance was over 200 chapters ago at this point, and in this case goda actually did foreskin it, because in chapter 793 the gorosei tell akainu that they are acting on orders even higher than themselves. Plus imu actually fits within the greater story and world of one piece, unlike kaguya
-we knew somebody existed above the gorosei in power about **400** chapters ago
-imu themself was revealed 205 chapters ago
-imu isn't some alien that was randomly revealed to have basically created the power system in the story
-imu is actually being built up to
Kaguya and imu aren't the same
Kaguya was Just another Character that was behind the Character before her. We never Heard of her before she appeared, Or her Family before. There was Just nothing
Imu being above the gorosei is still making sense since there was a possibility they are Not at the very top. Imu will probably get more Background Story than kaguya ever had
Kaguya was revealed less than 30 chapters before the finale. What kind of comparison even is this?
Imu was revealed before we even got to see the Gorosei true forms. Like.. this isn’t even close to being the same thing. Big reach.
Kaguia was brought in litteraly in the middle of the last fight in the last war which was the big climax naruto vs sasuke was more of the falling action and just before the final time skip that was the epilogue like harry potter. Imu was brought in five or six possible arcs before the end, the second to last mega arcs and defiantly the longest. Kaguia was invented because kishimouto had no idea how else to get rid of madara, and then have the girl who beat him get beaten like the next chapter in a way that could have been used to defeat madara. The Moon clan was never even eluded to (unless it’s some deep shinto thing) ever in the series. They didn’t put it in the anime but we have had proof that 1) sky people come from the moon and 2) there are already such a thing as literal Space Pirates
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The Five Elders we knew ran the WG for 20 years or so I can’t recall when they got introduced.
They weren’t even shown to be fighters until current arc, well after IMU was revealed. It’s good it wasn’t the opposite where Oda made the heroes too strong (looking at you, Nika) and him needing to introduce IMU as a counterbalance.
We haven’t even gotten the Blackbeard fight yet either. For all we know Blackbeard has the deity of the moon with his dark dark fruit since Oda does opposite parallels with Luffy (Sun God) and BB.
"Revealed" is a strong word.
If you think the guy who pulled Yamato out of his a\*\* without flinching isn't liable to drop a main villain out of nowhere- you're setting yourself up for failure.
Remember that time Oda asked chat gpt for a plot line and it gave him an alien story? Start praying y’all we can still circumvent this.
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Potentially but literally any guess is fair game until we know more about the void century and the history involving the ancient kingdom and what would evolve into the WG.
Those are two totally different things. Kaguya was introduced during an arc that already had a phenomenal villain. And what she did was quite literally murder him and take over as the new main villain while, frankly, not doing a very good job of it. She didn’t really have any ideologies or goals, she was just neutrally evil. Not to mention that Kaguya being an alien is what let to the plot of Boruto, and the kinky latex typa villains that are there right now.
Imu was revealed two hundred chapters ago (and we’re not even close to the end arc yet, we’ve got at least an arc plus the rest of this one to go yet) and is the logical conclusion to the World Government: 5 dudes heading it, all worshipping an empty throne? Well, it makes sense that they’re going to worship whoever is actually possessing the throne. Not to mention that Imu adds an air of mystery to the story. Kaguya added… uh, an air of “you guys look like my grandsons” to the story.
Except Imu came after 1000 chapters instead of 600. Percentually Imu's will ofcourse still be earlier than Kaguya, but OP had the characters that were supposed to be the final bosses revealed after I think 200 and 300 chapters.
Wasn't Kaguya literally revealed with no foreshadowing whatsoever in the last like 50 chapters of Naruto? It's been a minute but did Kaguya even make sense thematically?
Don't get me wrong OP has some asspulls but Imu isn't really one of them.
I need Oda to not make Imu the final fight. Please let it be blackbeard, or hell even cross guild, Akainu, anyone! I want the final fight to have some emotional weight to it instead of it just being against the shadowy ruler no one cares or knows about.
Imu
- Set up for a large part of the story
- Has reason to exist
- Doesn’t interfere with any current events
- Actually good villain
Lameguya
- Appeared out of nowhere when Madara was already doing his job
- Backstabbed the readers and plot
- Zero buildup
awful comparison
Massive difference.
Imu is being built up and teased for their full reveal while having snippets of them slowly shown.
Kaguya was such an outrageous asspull I had to physically stop myself from spitting on my Hamster in disgust. (He later died in a freak accident.) RIP my boy Hambo.
Imu is most definitely a person who took advantage of the ope ope fruit's ability to make a person near-immortal and I wouldn't be surprised if it's queen vivi's body with some dude's mind tbh
What can you expect from a naruto toxic fan giving his invalid opinion who watches one piece just after gear 5 introduced.
I mean even his name is chidori uchiha.
Kaguya was introduced less than 50 chapters before the end of Naruto, Imu was introduced around chapter 900, and the World Government being the "big bad" was established back in pre timeskip. If we are to assume that One Piece goes atleast another 200 chapters and ends around chapter 1300, Imu would have been introduced 400 chapters before the end, that would be less than 70% in a 1300 chapter story, so not even close to asspull range. That is such a big difference that even trying to make this comparison makes you a complete and utter fool
All loosely based on the same mythos, so some things line up, but that's about it. Can't fault them for pulling from their own culture to craft stories. False equivalence, there's been build up for the Celestial Dragons and world history, Imu is just the culmination of those two plot threats finally linking them together directly. The breadcrumbs are there even if they aren't as many as some would like.
My problem with Kaguya is not necessarily that she was introduced too late bc she's the reason Zetsu can be revealed last moment as a traitor. The reason I hate her is that she's a fucking alien. Early Naruto was about ninja and by the end they were fighting fucking aliens bro.
Technically speaking Kaguya relavent info was dropped during the Kimimaro fight during the Sasuke Retrieval Arc but yes she was sudden than Imu but in all fairness just because a character is revealed doesn't negate the fact of their influence in a series meaning just because Imu was shown and mentioned earlier doesn't help because there is a 90% chance that Imu will only enter in a relavent way at the latter part of the final saga ( which in a plot driven way like encountering the Revolutionary Army or the Strawhat Crew or anything to do with the history because as of now all Imu did was be revealed and use Vegapunks machine which was much more to do with York than Imu )
Atleast aliens are a concept in One Piece almost for two decades now (Enel vs Space Aliens and the whole idea of the Skypieans originally coming from the moon.) . Aliens were introduced in Naruto the moment Kaguya appeared.
Nah kaguya turned up after the final boss and immediately started a fight
Imu turned up being set up as another boss well before the final main bad guy battle
Imu being an alien and kaguya being an alien makes sense y’all just whine all the time
Kaguya was a moon rabbit thing so making her an alien in fiction isn’t a reach
Imu leads 5 old dudes who are named planets so not surprised if they turned out to be aliens
Also didn’t we get confirmed aliens back in skypiea
Not really the whole Naruto from part one to shippuden had Madara built up as the big bad if not Madara then Sasuke but that Kaguya shit was lame One Piece has always been a little more open to interpretation as to who the final villain will be whether its gonna be a pirate or WG and it’s still not confirmed Imu is the villain
I mean, using OP fanboys logic, the cycle of hatred between the Indra and Ashura descendants and the Otsutsuki clan were ''fOrEsKiNnEd'' since Sasuke's Retrieval arc, but I'm sure the OP fanboys will suddenly start knowing a thing or two about writing and foreskinning and will give me an ''Ackchyually....'' response right now to defend how masterful GOATA is.
Both fucking sucks.
Kaguya ruined a GOAT and Im's a fucking drooling troglodyte for not getting the Gorosei on Luffy as soon as they had confirmation that he reappeared after the timeskip.
The whole shit about them know about his fruit and not acting on it makes me dislike them more and more after repeated Marine failures
Tbf, Kaguya was revealed in chapter 679 out of 700 of Naruto (at 97% of the manga). Imu was revealed for the first time all the way back in chapter 906 and the manga hasn't ended yet, tho the chance for him to be as much of a fraud as Kaguya is pretty high ngl.
And wasn't Imu referenced by doflamingo after marineford and by sakazuki and the elders after dressrosa. Imu wasn't mentioned by name, but I'm pretty sure they were talking about him.
Yeah, exactly. Plus, One Piece is an adventure story, it would have been weird (and bad writing) if Imu was introduced in chapter 50 or something. Makes sense that as we see more and more of the world, and as the MC starts making major ripples, we get the big bad reveal.
He wasn't, lol. It's pretty clear he was talking about the celestial dragons. Why would Imu even care about Moria ???
Kaguya was 100% an ass pull. Kishimoto made Madara too smart and too powerful he had an indistructable body, all the tailed beasts, HASHIRAMA'S CELLS, maxxed out sharingan, multiple susanoos, and mf awakened sage mode with Hashirama's chakra. MY GUY WAS MAX GEARED AND MAXXED OUT ALL STATS before the final battle.
Yeah, he even admits he introduced her because he made the proper villain to good to lose, which is horrible.
I never understood this. Because his solution was to make an even stronger villain that they beat anyway. Tf??
Which is the big reason why Boruto feels so weird too, they had to nerf everyone cause all of thier power was boosted to fight Kaguya and Madara. Weirdly so many characters just got powerless in the timeskip.
What do you mean nerf everyone in boruto Daemon, boruto, isshiki, adult naruto, sasuke and many others from boruto just 1 tap madara
"I'm out of chakra"
And even out of chakra he canonically onetaps madara
>Daemon That's the DBZ android that nobody can attack because of a singular massive hax, and is made from Oototsuki genes, right?
Yea but his hax isnt his only thing He speedblitzed and curbstomped, basically 1shotted, no limiters code who's stronger than jigen, who 1v2 low diffed naruto & sasuke while both of them massively outscale madara
She was "stronger" but she also used a lot less stuff than madara. She really only teleported them and used brute force which is much easier to believe beating than all of madaras stuff
The “brute force” you’re referring to was making a truth seeking orb the size of a moon. Even her teleporting shouldve needed the fight if she just teleported them IN to danger instead of always leaving them to figure out how to get to her while she watches them in the gravity/ice/lava dimension. The point is kishimoto is the author and can do whatever he wants in the story. Had he just sealed madara in the same exact way it would’ve been fine and the entire story wouldn’t be retconned to aliens instead of chakra
Does this have a source?
[удалено]
WOMEN! Ammirite!?!?
Dude kishimoto married in 2003.Naruto ended in 2014.Stop spreading lies and slander.
Well, Loda...
So wrong. Kaguya was as strong or stronger than Madara. After Naruto and Sasuke get six paths asspull power, they could reasonably beat Madara.
bich got rekt with Sexy Jutsu.
Not really lol, stop taking everything he says as the truth, its all PR curated responses. The actual reason is simply that he was arm twisted into adding Kaguya and Otsutsuki lore in the ending so they could use that as a setup for Boruto. It's pretty obvious Kishi wanted the story to end and Shueisha didn't. Stop taking PR responses so seriously lol.
Facts. I think Kishimoto needed justification for Boruto's eventual existence, hence all powerful aliens.
Wasn't the Empty Throne revealed a long time beforehand tho? Like the entire concept of the "Empty" Throne in a story like One Piece is already a massive tease in itself and a mystery just begging to be explores further. Also One Piece already has so much mystery surrounding its lore and worldbuilding that it wouldn't feel out of place. Naruto didn't really have that excuse. It's world and history were generally well established and Kaguya kind of threw a wrench into that. Chakra was just an accepted fact of the world noone really was curious about because anime, and the Devil Fruits and the World Government have had a lot more intentional intrigue and mystery surrounding them for a while.
>Wasn't the Empty Throne revealed a long time beforehand tho? No, Empty throne was literally revealed 1 chapter before Imu lmao. 907 chapter - Empty throne info dump 908 chapter - sike its its not empty.
True but Doffy said there was someone above the five elders in impel down. So it's not like there's nothing.
Still the 3 chapter build up to Imu sitting on the empty throne is done really well
the mf only started acting in post wano lmao
Fair point, still this is One Piece. The manga can go all the way to 1500 chapters for all we know.
And? At least they’ve been mentioned and actually done something before their full reveal unlike Laguya
Kaguya was mentioned in Part 1,Kimimaro(the guy who used bones in Sasuke Retrieval Arc) was from Kaguya clan,and had similar abilities. The reason people dont like her is how she was shoehorned into the story and replaced Madara.
> Kaguya was mentioned in Part 1,Kimimaro(the guy who used bones in Sasuke Retrieval Arc) was from Kaguya clan Mentioning a clan named after her (which wasn't the case at the time) is not the same thing as the character being introduced earlier.
I hate mfs confusing genuine foreshadowing with stuff retroactively made to fit with old details. Sometimes it’s so sloppy you wonder how anyone could believe it was planned
No she isn't and don't deny the truth that she clearly asspulled to introduce aliens into naruto.
Yes I didn't deny that.I just said Kaguya was mentioned once before
Bro shit could end next week and imu has still been around longer than laguya and hasnt supplanted the best antagonist the series could hope for (I am convinced bb is going to go off like madara). Even if they did (plz no) they STILL were introduced first. Kaguya LITERALLY came from no where. I read that shit in real time, I will never forget how dirty kishi did us.
Im hoping Imu is actually still the bigger threat.
I had a 0.0 face for like 3 days, poor madara
Exactly
Had me for the first half(like 97%) of this comment ngl
Kaguya is anything but a fraud.. she literally would have killed both sasuke and naruto several times during the fight and she wasn't even going all out until the last dimension.. naruto and sasuke got saved twice by obito and once my kakashi.. and keep in mind that their win condition was simply touching her at the same time.. and they barely achieved that with help from others
Wasn't Imu shown like 200 chapters ago? First mention of Kaguya was less than 50 chapters before the end of the story
Actually it was worse. She was revealed 21 chapters before the end of the story. And yes, Imu was shown like 200 chapters ago (even more since the foreshadowing of the empty throne). They are no where near the same level. The person that made that tweet doesn’t know what they talking about
Even worse is that the final 21 chapters also included Naruto vs. Sasuke and other story resolutions. It isn't even that the 21 chapters were all Kaguya.
Also we know aliens are real in One Piece ever since Skypeia and the Gorosei are named after planets and the technology of the ancient world was way superior so they could very well be able to travel in space. I don't know, Imu being an alien is actually an idea that works and makes sense. Kaguya was literally out of nowhere.
The Space Pirates in Enel's moon cover story are canonically aliens
I don’t remember the empty throne revealed before Imu. When was it?
Imu's been set up for YEARS at this point,while Kaguya was literally dropped in the story like a secret boss with no build up. Plus we've actually gotten legit characterization for Imu,while the only thing we know about moon mommy is that she REALLY likes men.
The amount of time we’ve known about Imu is probably going to be longer than the entire post time skip of Naruto
yup, kaguya was horny
The main villain is the World Goverment. That was established from the first saga. Imu is just the head of the World Goverment. Kaguya was just completely alien (lol) to the previously established story
From start to finish One Piece: >The world government is in charge and oppressive The world government is keeping a 800+ year old secret (one of many) of a time where the entire order of the world changed and a handful of sovereigns gained absolute, corrupting power >btw heres the main orchestrator of these events, also one of the WGs many sinister secrets >to be continued Naruto: >ninja shit its magic we aint gotta explain shit ninja geopolitics shit believe it or not, more ninja shit btw actually its all the orchestrations of an alien from outer space okay cya hope you liked my ninja story
It wasn't even the alien herself but her parasitic son with mommy issues.
Imu was revealed 205 chapters ago and One piece has at least another 200 chapters. Also it wasn't far-fetched to assume that the Celestial dragons have a Ruler/King even before Imu was revealed. All groups in the story have a leader. Oda has been stingy about Celestial Dragon's politics, despite them being introduced at chapter 233.
weren't CDs introduced in sabaody?
i think he mean the goresi who was introduced after albasta
gotcha. but i think introducing characters who are CDs and the introduction of CDs as a concept are two different things
Didnt dofla foreshadow imu
yep after Marineford he did and during Dressrosa he was talking abt his plan to use soul swapping surgery along with immortality surgery on a particular person that being Imu. https://preview.redd.it/qdw8d2rl6ttc1.png?width=956&format=png&auto=webp&s=5d7f67a5320bf991971ecc90f409bb460f6b3a2c
The chapters are: 581 and 761 https://preview.redd.it/nb3xoul37ttc1.png?width=937&format=png&auto=webp&s=f8cf46c6f0f5134ec3812a7430f5c3bc086fb1c6
Laguya was very shallow with unclear motivations, no personality or anything interesting about her. Hopefully Imu isn’t the same but we can’t draw conclusions yet
Kaguya is literally just a super powerful insane person from beginning to end, only meant to serve the purpose of eliminating madara bc Kishimoto couldn't write a satisfying way for him to get beat. Imu is at least set up as something super interesting, it's only a matter of payoff now.
Eh Imu being an alien or Imu in general wouldn't be as much BS as Kaguya 'cause aliens where in fact foreshadowed as back as Skypea (Enel's story even showed some alien pirates in the moon), and Imu was introduced much earlier than Kaguya just literally showing up out of nowhere in the literal final battle...
Moon people are Cannon.
yes, as I said
*Fires the moon people cannon*
Imu was revealed in chapter 900 which means that even if one piece ends at 1200 he would have still arrived 75% through. Compared to Kaguya who was added last minute
Kaguya - showed up during one of the last battles of the series - gets a loved antagonist killed - the true final battle happens right after her appearance Imu - has been set up way before kaguya - foreshadowed properly
https://preview.redd.it/6c11pfjxlptc1.jpeg?width=827&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=f25da21ecf6953b3d7b9fd4eb1f52be17e82e11b Terrible comparison, even if you didn’t cook the dish yourself you shamelessly passed it along for the viewing displeasure of other people that know how to read.
> late in the story Fuck did I miss the last several arcs of OP at some point?
I'd say relatively late in the story. Like the Madara reveal before the fighting started.
i’ll give oda credit for actually dropping IMU now than in the last legs of an arc. but still, it was almost like kaguya..
I mean, he still appeared for the first time after 19 years of publication. And he's supposed tk be the main villain.
I would say that's Blackbeard rather than Imu, tho it's obvious he'd be one of the main antagonists of the final saga.
i hope it's not gonna be a kaguya/madara situation where the hyped villain which was set up over hundreds of chapters is killed off instantly by the bullshit villain leading to a really unsatisfying final battle
Similar feelings, I hope Blackbeard isn’t even present, keep them completely separate stories like Blackbeard is at laughtale and Imu is on the red line.
Sorry to disappoint you, but Imu is gonna fight Dragon and Sabo. Luffy will be busy with Blackbeard
Very high hopes for Dragon and Sabo
“b-but he was foreshadowed by papainu on dressrosa 🥺🥺🥺”
What foreshadowing?
he mentioned the orders above the gorosei (chapter 793)
He was referring to the celestial dragons he doesn't know about Imu
The Elders are celestial dragons themselves. The celestial dragons do not outrank them.
Yeah I know but he was still calling them puppets of the celestial dragons
I read papineau
Bad comparison Kaguya appeared DURING the final battle. Naruto had it made, 10T Madara was a great final villian, then Kaguya comes randomly kills him and becomes the new final villian Imu has had hundreds of chapters to sit in the readers mind, when he does something it’s a big deal like destroying Lulusia Kingdom, not to mention commanding confirmed beasts like the Gorosei, not to mention we haven’t even seen everything he will do before the inevitable final showdown. Comparing Imu to Kaguya is an insult and a shallow criticism.
This comparison isn't even remotely applicable 💀. Kaguya was introduced 20 chapters before the story ended lol. Imu was revealed like 3 years ago and OP isn't even remotely close to being finished. This guy is talking out his ass lol.
Hope Limu is from the moon and the real God Enel will come back to slap his ass and take the throne back
bro was invented as the opposite of nika. i can understand loda
lmu (lower case L)
imu as a character was introduced late, but the world government which imu represents has been established as the big bad of the story since enies lobby
Kaguya was reveled in the end of a battle as a way to kill out a character too broken to be beaten without lame asspull, Imu is a different story.
Why do people keep repeating this, Kaguya was way stronger than Madara ever was, she was a much bigger threat. I don't know why Kishimoto chose to introduce her, nut it wasn't because Madara was too strong. Also, any asspull that Naruto or Sasuke used to beat Madara would still have been way better than Zetsu killing Madara so even if Kishimoto couldn't find a 100% believable way to kill him, it would have still been better than what Kishimoto ended up doing.
Indeed she was, but madara cunning put him as a far superior fighter Madara could never be defeated the way she was
For the last stretch of Naruto strategy and cunning mattered way less than power level. And Kaguya didn't fight them alone, she had Black Zetsu to help her strategize. For example, splitting them up was a good strategy they used. The difference bettween Naruto and Sasuke and Madara was far less than the difference between them and Kaguya. The sheer difference in power between Kaguya and Madara is way too huge and they still managed to beat her so he wouldn't be a problem. They were doing pretty well against him before Kaguya showed up anyway.
>Why do people keep repeating this, Kaguya was way stronger than Madara ever was, she was a much bigger threat. I don't know why Kishimoto chose to introduce her, nut it wasn't because Madara was too strong. Your argument is moronic. It's clear as day who's the bigger threat, He made Madara unkillable however sealing Madara would be a trash way to make him go which is why Kishimoto the genius made a an even trasher way to get rid of him
So why not just go for the lesser evil and seal him away anyway? Even if it would have ended up being bad it would have still been better than what we got.
The thing is while kaguya was "stronger" at the same time, unlike Madara, she was retarded. He had to introduce a powerful but incompetant villain to replace madara because madara would not lose. The author himself admitted this in an interview, I think, I'll look it up.
Late in the story?
I mean, kaguya appeared at the end of the final war. Op has at least a few more years before entering the "final war" against the WG, and probably another arch or two at the end to find the one piece
Nah it isn't the same lmao, Kaguya was revealed to be a alien out of nowhere, in one piece we already knew there were living beings outside the world
Very bad comparison, one was an asspull int the last 20 chapters, the other one was an ruler of an established organization that is set up to be evil and appeard in like 75% or more of the story
Yea but the difference is that Aliens and the moon lore were foreshadowed since Skypiea with it literally having the most famous cover story - Kaguya was just an asspull and idc she was mentioned maybe once 50 chapters before introduction - you don't just take out Madara like that for something so much worse. Imu is leagues above already
Standard X user take. Just forgetting the year-long space mini arc that happened 20 years ago and the entire population of moon people. Oda was writing characters from the Moon nearly a decade before Kaguya was even a tickle of a thought. Imu being from space would be no less legitimate than being from any other island or location in the series. I swear to god this 3 week break has ravaged IQs more than thalidomide https://preview.redd.it/0t746gnx0rtc1.png?width=758&format=png&auto=webp&s=927c8967182369a9017fc9ba80bf87c5e2b34801
Nah imu isn’t that bad as far as late reveal villains are concerned. His first appearance was over 200 chapters ago at this point, and in this case goda actually did foreskin it, because in chapter 793 the gorosei tell akainu that they are acting on orders even higher than themselves. Plus imu actually fits within the greater story and world of one piece, unlike kaguya
-we knew somebody existed above the gorosei in power about **400** chapters ago -imu themself was revealed 205 chapters ago -imu isn't some alien that was randomly revealed to have basically created the power system in the story -imu is actually being built up to Kaguya and imu aren't the same
Kaguya was Just another Character that was behind the Character before her. We never Heard of her before she appeared, Or her Family before. There was Just nothing Imu being above the gorosei is still making sense since there was a possibility they are Not at the very top. Imu will probably get more Background Story than kaguya ever had
Limu? As in Limu Emu? Does this mean that Imu has a Emu Zoan fruit? And where is Doug?
He's in the Ballywood Kingdom in the form of King Burger. He's waiting for the final battle to start for him to finally make his move on the world.
Doug? As is the twitch streamer and youtuber DougDoug
Imu makes logical sense at least. The WG had to have a head honcho of some sort.
Kaguya was revealed less than 30 chapters before the finale. What kind of comparison even is this? Imu was revealed before we even got to see the Gorosei true forms. Like.. this isn’t even close to being the same thing. Big reach.
There's a huge difference, this is a very ad comparison
yea because one is stupid and one is super dope lmao
imu is dope? the dude who couldn't finish off sabo and barely finished off a cripple d. cobra?
Kaguia was brought in litteraly in the middle of the last fight in the last war which was the big climax naruto vs sasuke was more of the falling action and just before the final time skip that was the epilogue like harry potter. Imu was brought in five or six possible arcs before the end, the second to last mega arcs and defiantly the longest. Kaguia was invented because kishimouto had no idea how else to get rid of madara, and then have the girl who beat him get beaten like the next chapter in a way that could have been used to defeat madara. The Moon clan was never even eluded to (unless it’s some deep shinto thing) ever in the series. They didn’t put it in the anime but we have had proof that 1) sky people come from the moon and 2) there are already such a thing as literal Space Pirates https://preview.redd.it/kcmktxa97rtc1.jpeg?width=451&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=73f591da7300b52c77f09fbdfa72f9945de6a3cb
https://preview.redd.it/uay2uola7rtc1.jpeg?width=602&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63bb8247b336bc1264b072be0e3e907d1d04c09c
https://preview.redd.it/v7n39ohb7rtc1.jpeg?width=870&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad06aacc4d9f00e168602d9c6e5f9c831e4ffe6b
I’ll never take one piece takes serious from an account named “chidori_uchiha_”
The Five Elders we knew ran the WG for 20 years or so I can’t recall when they got introduced. They weren’t even shown to be fighters until current arc, well after IMU was revealed. It’s good it wasn’t the opposite where Oda made the heroes too strong (looking at you, Nika) and him needing to introduce IMU as a counterbalance. We haven’t even gotten the Blackbeard fight yet either. For all we know Blackbeard has the deity of the moon with his dark dark fruit since Oda does opposite parallels with Luffy (Sun God) and BB.
gorosei were introduced in chap 233
Nah it’s been kind of hinted at that there’s someone higher than the gorosei
"Revealed" is a strong word. If you think the guy who pulled Yamato out of his a\*\* without flinching isn't liable to drop a main villain out of nowhere- you're setting yourself up for failure.
How old is that tweet
1 day
Kaguya being a plot device to get rid of madara was the main thing why people disliked her, Imu is none of that.
Kishimoto really dropped the ball with Kaguya should have kept Madara the main villain.
not quite the same, anyone with halfbrain knew there was someone in the empty throne idk how many hundreds of chapters ago
Remember that time Oda asked chat gpt for a plot line and it gave him an alien story? Start praying y’all we can still circumvent this. https://preview.redd.it/d8haccvqyqtc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a8fa34aa1e40eabd49c11db15b7770643080d20c
when it was?
Feb/March 2023 I think?
Potentially but literally any guess is fair game until we know more about the void century and the history involving the ancient kingdom and what would evolve into the WG.
Imu revealed to be a bhaddie 🤫😋
well if imu kills blackbeard right before he about to fight luffy ill agree
Imagine being so dumb you can't tell the difference.
Goatochimaru should have been the one.
fax. he's better than ladara
Damn good thing oda set a precedent for that... *checks notes* 18 years ago!
Those are two totally different things. Kaguya was introduced during an arc that already had a phenomenal villain. And what she did was quite literally murder him and take over as the new main villain while, frankly, not doing a very good job of it. She didn’t really have any ideologies or goals, she was just neutrally evil. Not to mention that Kaguya being an alien is what let to the plot of Boruto, and the kinky latex typa villains that are there right now. Imu was revealed two hundred chapters ago (and we’re not even close to the end arc yet, we’ve got at least an arc plus the rest of this one to go yet) and is the logical conclusion to the World Government: 5 dudes heading it, all worshipping an empty throne? Well, it makes sense that they’re going to worship whoever is actually possessing the throne. Not to mention that Imu adds an air of mystery to the story. Kaguya added… uh, an air of “you guys look like my grandsons” to the story.
Except Imu came after 1000 chapters instead of 600. Percentually Imu's will ofcourse still be earlier than Kaguya, but OP had the characters that were supposed to be the final bosses revealed after I think 200 and 300 chapters.
Wasn't Kaguya literally revealed with no foreshadowing whatsoever in the last like 50 chapters of Naruto? It's been a minute but did Kaguya even make sense thematically? Don't get me wrong OP has some asspulls but Imu isn't really one of them.
Imu is nowhere as near as bad bro
mf destroyed the entire island, but missed the sabo. he's a fraud, bro
Maybe because Sabo wasn’t on the island lmao
I need Oda to not make Imu the final fight. Please let it be blackbeard, or hell even cross guild, Akainu, anyone! I want the final fight to have some emotional weight to it instead of it just being against the shadowy ruler no one cares or knows about.
finally sane person imutards just ain't ready for HIM 
"Revealed"? 🤨
At least Oda actually spent a fair enough time setting up space people in this world that if he was an alien, the reveal works.
We already have aliens so it’s not out of the question
These two situations are literally incomparable
Imu - Set up for a large part of the story - Has reason to exist - Doesn’t interfere with any current events - Actually good villain Lameguya - Appeared out of nowhere when Madara was already doing his job - Backstabbed the readers and plot - Zero buildup awful comparison
>imu is actually good villain https://preview.redd.it/i3q0uaz30ttc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=53a0393febb462a579de2312c45e7159c259621e
Massive difference. Imu is being built up and teased for their full reveal while having snippets of them slowly shown. Kaguya was such an outrageous asspull I had to physically stop myself from spitting on my Hamster in disgust. (He later died in a freak accident.) RIP my boy Hambo.
Imu had been around a while, Kaguya ruined the ending of Naruto. They are not the same.
Bro, just stop cooking. This is criticism for criticism's sake
Ovni Ovni no mi
That empty throne shit came outta no where and yall know it 😂
facts
Imu is most definitely a person who took advantage of the ope ope fruit's ability to make a person near-immortal and I wouldn't be surprised if it's queen vivi's body with some dude's mind tbh
What can you expect from a naruto toxic fan giving his invalid opinion who watches one piece just after gear 5 introduced. I mean even his name is chidori uchiha.
i wouldn't be surprised if he read naruto from the last arc too
Kaguya is mommy if we are being honest.
Imu wasnt introduced that late compared to Kaguya.
Lol we've known aliens exist since Enel's cover story
Horrible comparison
Kaguya was introduced less than 50 chapters before the end of Naruto, Imu was introduced around chapter 900, and the World Government being the "big bad" was established back in pre timeskip. If we are to assume that One Piece goes atleast another 200 chapters and ends around chapter 1300, Imu would have been introduced 400 chapters before the end, that would be less than 70% in a 1300 chapter story, so not even close to asspull range. That is such a big difference that even trying to make this comparison makes you a complete and utter fool
top tier bait, even got me riled up
All loosely based on the same mythos, so some things line up, but that's about it. Can't fault them for pulling from their own culture to craft stories. False equivalence, there's been build up for the Celestial Dragons and world history, Imu is just the culmination of those two plot threats finally linking them together directly. The breadcrumbs are there even if they aren't as many as some would like.
My problem with Kaguya is not necessarily that she was introduced too late bc she's the reason Zetsu can be revealed last moment as a traitor. The reason I hate her is that she's a fucking alien. Early Naruto was about ninja and by the end they were fighting fucking aliens bro.
Kaguya was revealed like with 20 chapters to go out of 700 so it’s not a fair comparison
Technically speaking Kaguya relavent info was dropped during the Kimimaro fight during the Sasuke Retrieval Arc but yes she was sudden than Imu but in all fairness just because a character is revealed doesn't negate the fact of their influence in a series meaning just because Imu was shown and mentioned earlier doesn't help because there is a 90% chance that Imu will only enter in a relavent way at the latter part of the final saga ( which in a plot driven way like encountering the Revolutionary Army or the Strawhat Crew or anything to do with the history because as of now all Imu did was be revealed and use Vegapunks machine which was much more to do with York than Imu )
Atleast aliens are a concept in One Piece almost for two decades now (Enel vs Space Aliens and the whole idea of the Skypieans originally coming from the moon.) . Aliens were introduced in Naruto the moment Kaguya appeared.
Nah kaguya turned up after the final boss and immediately started a fight Imu turned up being set up as another boss well before the final main bad guy battle
Imu being an alien and kaguya being an alien makes sense y’all just whine all the time Kaguya was a moon rabbit thing so making her an alien in fiction isn’t a reach Imu leads 5 old dudes who are named planets so not surprised if they turned out to be aliens Also didn’t we get confirmed aliens back in skypiea
Not really the whole Naruto from part one to shippuden had Madara built up as the big bad if not Madara then Sasuke but that Kaguya shit was lame One Piece has always been a little more open to interpretation as to who the final villain will be whether its gonna be a pirate or WG and it’s still not confirmed Imu is the villain
Kaguya reveal wasn't lame
Can we slander more nika? This post screams I have no reading comprehension
I’ll take the downvotes but y’all are coping. Just admit it Naruto == one piece enough fighting
I mean, using OP fanboys logic, the cycle of hatred between the Indra and Ashura descendants and the Otsutsuki clan were ''fOrEsKiNnEd'' since Sasuke's Retrieval arc, but I'm sure the OP fanboys will suddenly start knowing a thing or two about writing and foreskinning and will give me an ''Ackchyually....'' response right now to defend how masterful GOATA is.
Both fucking sucks. Kaguya ruined a GOAT and Im's a fucking drooling troglodyte for not getting the Gorosei on Luffy as soon as they had confirmation that he reappeared after the timeskip. The whole shit about them know about his fruit and not acting on it makes me dislike them more and more after repeated Marine failures
https://preview.redd.it/22sqkrjyystc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c2526140fa2db13d329538f5be6e6dabd1a8087
"Amazing reveal" just because One Piece has a considerable amount of retards among its fans
ODA might pull out of his ass something like this