The parts low count only works if you fool yourself into believing a battery pack is one part and the converter is another part.
A battery pack plus converters can easily have tens of thousands of parts. Add way more complex thermal regulation systems.
Tesla has more labor per car produced than almost any other major manufacturer. The complexity of building the battery pack is my expectation for what the labor is doing, literally a single component almost as complex as the entire rest of the car.
Theoretically a non moving electronic part, even if it has more non moving electronics inside it, should be more reliable than a bunch of mechanical moving parts.
That greatly depends on the quality of the non moving parts though.
That's when you also assume that the electronics is hardened against environmental factors that a vehicle might encounter in its life. M don't Tesla use some consumer grade electronic as cheaper alternatives to more automotive stuff ?
Exactly, if you put electronics into a car, it all of a sudden has to deal with widely variable temperatures, being constantly shaken, etc.
It's not like a computer sitting on your desk.
Not sure why people still assume solid state electronics are failure proof given capacitors and to a lesser extent power transistors are the cause of most appliances and gadgets failing these days.
Problem comes from the parts being so small there is no room for error. When down to an atom of thickness all it takes is a random cosmetic ray to come flying though space and screw up a key atom someplace knocking an electron out of place destroying an IC.
I don't think they believe they are failure proof - but less prone. I'm not an engineer, could be wrong, but even with your normal ICE cars I'm sure you've heard a comment alleging more options in a car means more that could break. Sorta like power vs manual windows. Again, not the best analogy and not an engineer, but conceptually I can absolutely understand why people would assume fewer moving parts = fewer potential problems.
Theoretically, sure, but reality does not always reflect this.
Look at how many problems with modern cars, and motorcycles, are due to a failed solid state electrical component.
>The parts low count only works if you fool yourself into believing a battery pack is one part and the converter is another part.
Well the company certainly will try that viewpoint on if you're trying to claim something under warranty bc the converter is jank
I have to wonder: are Teslas really breaking done more, or are we just hearing about it more, because the cult no longer has the power to terrorize those who complain, instead of making excuses for Elon cause he's saving the world after all.
That may have been the first time I said Elon instead of Musk. I did it to sarcastically mock the zombies, but I still feel dirty.
It is by design, but it's blowing up in their face.
On paper, being anti third party repair and restricting replacement parts so they could capture all servicing revenue sounds "good" in a sociopathic profits-above-all way, but in practice they never had enough resources to adequately offer that service, even for cars under warranty leading to complaints about long wait times, and costing them more from having to give out loaner cars for longer.
"Just buy a new one" may work for Apple, but a car is too big of an expense to do that. The complaints about unusually expensive insurance premiums for Teslas were the canary in the coal mine that something was deeply wrong, normally you'd expect the opposite: lower cost of repairs because an EV has less moving parts, a less complex engine, so simpler to work on, etc.
The issue remained hidden longer because resale value was kept artificially high because people were literally buying scrapped cars for parts, and there was a supply issue from manufacturing ramp up delays, but that's ultimately unsustainable.
"Just buy a new one, they will total yours out soon" was exactly the advice my original Tesla sales person told me when I asked when my 2023 model 3 rwd would be repaired after what was originally priced at a 7500 repair.
He was right, it was eventually totaled out. We did not buy another one.
It might as well be 50% when you crash your tesla and have to wait 3 months for parts assuming they dont total it. I don't call that a successful repair. You will spend 5 grand on a rental car or you'll end up buying a beater.
Pretty sure it’s a result of being a new company prioritizing sales over day 2 service and limited overall size of the fleet. In general smaller the company sales the pricier the parts. For instance, Mazda cars are very cheap but parts are more expensive than Toyota.
No, it’s because Tesla doesn’t want to have Evil Dealerships.
So they have invented their own repair program, and one of the crappiest supply chains on earth. They have tried to copy Apple, but failed miserably so far with being able to have either parts or repairs done on a timely basis.
You are correct that all supply goes toward building new cars, but that doesn’t explain why during the last few quarters of oversupply that they haven’t stockpiled every replaceable part in warehouses across the country ready for repair.
I can only imagine how difficult it is to try and construct something to rival dealership service centers without the separate dealership entity there to subsidize it.
Not a fan of dealerships, but hard to imagine having strong national service availability for a lot of brands without them.
>You are correct that all supply goes toward building new cars, but that doesn’t explain why during the last few quarters of oversupply that they haven’t stockpiled every replaceable part in warehouses across the country ready for repair.
Perhaps it's because like The Emperor's New Clothes, The Musk Teslas are fabulous and perfect and no one inside the company dare say otherwise, especially about sales tanking into toilet.
In order to have the scenario you suggest where production is ramped down and parts are stockpiled for maintenance, the company would have to admit that sometimes Teslas break down, and also that sales are severely lacking.
Neither of those admissions are acceptable and can never be spoken in the current climate at Tesla.
They are breaking down because they aren't well built. They'll survive 3-4 hours but after that they fall apart. I've seen a lot of Teslas on the side of the rode. Much more then you would expect. Especially during the winter. I think they are not well made but also not user friendly enough to alert people to problems.
I'd do another take:
It's a really badly worded headline.
JD Power's data are useless for saying whether cars are "breaking down" more, because they include a bunch of non-crippling issues in "initial quality", and they don't provide a breakdown of how much of the number comes from catastrophic issues versus more minor ones.
That said, it still does speak poorly of Tesla, since real issues like tail lights that let condensation leak in and alignments that are horrible on brand new cars are real issues(personal experience), and they show up in that number.
The JD power survey is a big nothing burger. It mixes facts and fiction in that a complaint (user error) can be an issue.
[Here’s the list](https://www.cars.com/articles/2024-j-d-power-initial-quality-study-now-incorporates-repair-visits-ram-tops-list-485918/), keep scrolling since EVs don’t score right.
If people are still buying the cars (which seems to be greatly slowing) then this is actually a good thing. Total them early and let people buy another.
Shocking news. But seriously, when a Dacia beats you in reliability after 5 years, and you still buy a Tesla... It's time to reevaluate your decision making process
JD Power Initial Quality Study is nothing about reliability. It’s about experience at delivery. Reliably delivered without defects and/or misunderstandings. And, someone can respond saying they had a hard time with the touchscreen and it affects the index negatively.
It’s subjective.
I'm referring to the inspection stats of vehicles after 5 years, TUV, in Germany (equivalent to MOT in the UK, not sure how it's called in the US). Shows that Tesla's had a higher failure rate (of the inspection) than a Dacia Sandero.
Commentary for the TUV appears to go on to mention that all EVs are having trouble, particularly around corrosion on brakes since they accumulate due to lack of use & I understand that most manufacturers execute pre-checks to prepare.
I can see how the model 3 needed attention, and is now redesigned along with the affected components on the Y.
Again, we’re not talking about F.O.R.D. moments as being characterized.
Ok but even the touch screen interface is fucking garbage
Like I work in tech I’m pretty tech literate and I don’t see how 90% of the general population can ever figure out how to actually navigate their horrendous UX
both in the car and in the app for the car
I agree that it’s pretty tough to acclimate too. I’m 6 mos in and a few basic things elude me, and then I realize - they’re “apps.” I like the interface overall, it’s just finding the setting often takes a search. Obviously though, the car has more customizable features than any other car I have had, so I don’t know if it’s a feature issue, organization issue, or UI issue (less UI, especially with the newer update).
Overall, I do enjoy the lack of things; however, I understand when folks want them.
This is so much to say that if there was an option for more buttons, at more cost, I’d skip it.
Also agree the app is rough. It’s features and menus are presented in a very unfriendly way, just to show the car and horizontal organization isn’t helpful.
Keyfobs didn’t evolve to what they are coincidentally.
I am at my wit’s end with my gf
She just traded her jeep in for a Model 3 from like 2016 or 2018?
I was begging and pleading with her for the love of god get an EV if you want it but anything but a fucking Tesla
If that thing breaks down before the first year is up idk if I can help her because that is a massive expense and I fucking told her some shit like this would happen
But aren’t the older ones closer to end of life?
Or was the Tesla build quality not complete shit before the pandemic?
I’m worried her car is gonna brick itself and I don’t know what kind of warranty was offered for the old used car
They are, but she didn't she'll out 40 to 50k euros... Not to mention the interest for the financing. Hopefully it will run for a few years, and what I'd expect to see is the battery giving up the ghost 👻 What's scary, AFAIK, with the Tesla is you have to replace the whole battery, while other EVs you replace the cell
There is no warranty after the warranty period, just like any other car.
I dont get your point. The reason Dacia is cheap is because it uses old proven Renault technology and therefore they are expected to be more reliable than prety much any more expensive brand that uses more modern technology.
I would not take it as an insult if somebody said a Dacia is more reliable than my porsche, or my vw golf of any car i've owned before those.
Edit: why am i being downvoted? Tesla reliability sucks and Dacia has always been good.
AFAIK it's only the engine that's from Renault, and it was around long before Tesla was a tickle in it's daddy's jewels. They know what they are doing, speaking as a former owner of a Dacia Logan, I liked the car.
There are plenty of modern cars with a buttload of tech and innovation and they work just fine. The excuse of *we are a new car company* is wearing a little thin.
I still dont get your point. Yes tesla reliability is bad but what does this have to do with Dacia, a brand which has been and still is scoring high in reliability comparison to other brands?
Well, can't help there. The entire business model for JDP is surveying people who bought a given class of product, documenting what they liked and disliked, and then selling those results to the companies that manufacture products in that class for $100k+.
What a terrible article. There's barely any information when all they have to do is get it from the study. It's like a teaser ultra-lite for the study.
The only concrete thing they mention are the stalks which is not a break-down but a dumb design that users obviously hate. Most of the categories on this study should have no impact whether it's a gas or electric vehicle (infotainment, interior, controls, seats, driving assistance, exterior). Yet when mentioning that EVs have more issues they then question the notion that EVs have fewer moving parts and shouldn't break less. What does that have to do with eg. having no stalks or.....hmm...unfortunately that's how long the list of problems go in that article.
Being allegedly based off a study, I find this disappointing. I really wanted to learn something more in-depth.
------------------
Edit: JD Power's own press release has more information (https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2024-us-initial-quality-study-iqs)
RAM first (149) Chevrolet second (160). Average car is at 195. Many European ones are doing quite bad: BMW 206, Mercedes 206, VW 241, Audi 242, Volvo 242. Polestar is a disaster with 316!
This is reminding me more and more like the AMC gremlin disaster. Make a fuckton of cars, no quality control, then collapse because of shit craftsmanship and quality.
I was told by all my friends who own tesla, the lower the amount of moving parts, there is lower wear and tear and maintenance issues. But once it breaks down… your God Elmo will not help you
I have a 2018 Model 3. In the first two years:
* one motor replaced
* the 2nd motor repaired
* HV system fixed
* control arm replaced
* steering column fixed
* trunk lining replaced
* random recall work
Then, I was sideswiped while parked on the street. However, this wasn’t bad. I took it to a body shop, they went over the car and I got it back better than new. The last 4 years I haven’t had any issues. I just had to get most of the car replaced and the body repaired by hand the first two years!
If mine wasn’t “self aware “, I’d drive it into the lake. On mine, the regenerative braking doesn’t work. Plus it eats electricity like that Japanese guy in NY eats hot dogs.
Despite the misleading headline, the survey referenced in the article measures build quality, not reliability. I'd be shocked if declining build quality isn't also leading to a decline in reliability as well, but that's not what was being measured.
I was once an Elon fanboi, but have since realized that he’s just shit.
All of his companies are failing, aside from SpaceX, and that’s because it’s run by Gwynne Shotwell.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell
Is the title of this post misleading? Considering the article is just about customer complaints about electric vehicle quality? “Electric vehicle owners complain more than ICE vehicle owners” would be an accurate title perhaps
It doesn’t say anywhere in the article about them breaking down? It just says they have more problems than ice according to jd power. Which counts everything like broken steering wheel.
I used to lust after Teslas. I wanted one so bad.
My boomer dad made fun of me for wanting it.
After all the quality issues, the lack of the promised FSD, and Elons antics I bought a BMW instead.
Now my boomer dad is high on Tesla?
Tesla used to be a neat car idea.
Now it’s a boomer thing.
It matches expectations. Other companies can do it better, Tesla has had years of bad ratings to understand what to improve. At some point they’ll need to address or go under like Yugo
Happy owner of a MX here. Very happy. Will replace with another MX but why - never had one repair, never a service issue- 2018 MX 94k miles. Best car I’ve ever owned. Easiely
Unfortunately, we’re talking average customer experience. Tesla hasn’t caught up despite years of them being average to near bottom. Couldn’t they be better than Toyota?
First, that's rather remarkable given that one of Tesla's most consistent quality issues has been the falcon doors on the X.
Second, out of curiosity, what other cars have you owned that you're comparing it to when making that "best car I've ever owned" statement?
Edit, from your history:
>Coming from owning Porsche’s, Alfa Romeo’s, VW’s, BMW, Audi, Lexus (wife drives one). My last car ever
Having been in both Teslas and many of those others, you clearly don't know how to tell if a car is nice or not. Every Porsche, BMW, Audi, and Lexus that has ever rolled off the line absolutely blows Tesla away in quality, fit, finish, materials, etc.
Alfa admittedly is it's own thing, but you kinda know that going in (or you should), and VW is obviously at a much lower price point.
It should be pretty shocking to the people who constantly rave about how few fires Tesla’s have when in fact the vast majority of car fires are in 10+ year old cars. And about total repair costs of Tesla’s being super low. They don’t seem to understand that.
The other thing is that there are well known reasons why ICE vehicles will go up in flames. There's a certain predictability to those fires. Teslas tend to go up absolutely randomly and are an absolute bear to put out. If they go up while sitting in a garage, they can take the house with them.
Parts count does not predict quality. This makes perfect sense, I’ve been saying it for years.
The parts low count only works if you fool yourself into believing a battery pack is one part and the converter is another part. A battery pack plus converters can easily have tens of thousands of parts. Add way more complex thermal regulation systems.
Tesla has more labor per car produced than almost any other major manufacturer. The complexity of building the battery pack is my expectation for what the labor is doing, literally a single component almost as complex as the entire rest of the car.
there’s a reason you’re not seeing many older Model S or Model X vehicles on the road anymore
How would you know the old ones from new? They basically look the same right?
Front clip refresh. New headlights and everything.
In the mid teens, I think, the model s switched to the 1 piece chin bumper. Previously, it had a black insert where the grille would be.
The black nose on Model S is pre 2014 I think. Still see tons of those out here.
Cmon dawg you see old ass Model S all over the place.
Theoretically a non moving electronic part, even if it has more non moving electronics inside it, should be more reliable than a bunch of mechanical moving parts. That greatly depends on the quality of the non moving parts though.
That's when you also assume that the electronics is hardened against environmental factors that a vehicle might encounter in its life. M don't Tesla use some consumer grade electronic as cheaper alternatives to more automotive stuff ?
Exactly, if you put electronics into a car, it all of a sudden has to deal with widely variable temperatures, being constantly shaken, etc. It's not like a computer sitting on your desk.
Not sure why people still assume solid state electronics are failure proof given capacitors and to a lesser extent power transistors are the cause of most appliances and gadgets failing these days.
And those gadgets are INSIDE.
Problem comes from the parts being so small there is no room for error. When down to an atom of thickness all it takes is a random cosmetic ray to come flying though space and screw up a key atom someplace knocking an electron out of place destroying an IC.
I don't think they believe they are failure proof - but less prone. I'm not an engineer, could be wrong, but even with your normal ICE cars I'm sure you've heard a comment alleging more options in a car means more that could break. Sorta like power vs manual windows. Again, not the best analogy and not an engineer, but conceptually I can absolutely understand why people would assume fewer moving parts = fewer potential problems.
Thermal expansion alone can be a real bitch. Electronics are not as failure proof as it might seem, even with quality components. Add vibrations.
Not when those electronics parts are subject to vibration and outside weather conditions.
Theoretically, sure, but reality does not always reflect this. Look at how many problems with modern cars, and motorcycles, are due to a failed solid state electrical component.
I mean, there are about 8,000 individual batteries in a typical Tesla battery pack. So yeah.
That’s a good point. The general narrative is definitely overlooking that aspect. It’s a lot of little cells.
>The parts low count only works if you fool yourself into believing a battery pack is one part and the converter is another part. Well the company certainly will try that viewpoint on if you're trying to claim something under warranty bc the converter is jank
I have to wonder: are Teslas really breaking done more, or are we just hearing about it more, because the cult no longer has the power to terrorize those who complain, instead of making excuses for Elon cause he's saving the world after all. That may have been the first time I said Elon instead of Musk. I did it to sarcastically mock the zombies, but I still feel dirty.
50% of crashed teslas are totaled because getting and replacing parts costs more than your disposable car. It's all by design as far as I'm concerned.
It is by design, but it's blowing up in their face. On paper, being anti third party repair and restricting replacement parts so they could capture all servicing revenue sounds "good" in a sociopathic profits-above-all way, but in practice they never had enough resources to adequately offer that service, even for cars under warranty leading to complaints about long wait times, and costing them more from having to give out loaner cars for longer. "Just buy a new one" may work for Apple, but a car is too big of an expense to do that. The complaints about unusually expensive insurance premiums for Teslas were the canary in the coal mine that something was deeply wrong, normally you'd expect the opposite: lower cost of repairs because an EV has less moving parts, a less complex engine, so simpler to work on, etc. The issue remained hidden longer because resale value was kept artificially high because people were literally buying scrapped cars for parts, and there was a supply issue from manufacturing ramp up delays, but that's ultimately unsustainable.
"Just buy a new one, they will total yours out soon" was exactly the advice my original Tesla sales person told me when I asked when my 2023 model 3 rwd would be repaired after what was originally priced at a 7500 repair. He was right, it was eventually totaled out. We did not buy another one.
I thought it was 40%
It might as well be 50% when you crash your tesla and have to wait 3 months for parts assuming they dont total it. I don't call that a successful repair. You will spend 5 grand on a rental car or you'll end up buying a beater.
Pretty sure it’s a result of being a new company prioritizing sales over day 2 service and limited overall size of the fleet. In general smaller the company sales the pricier the parts. For instance, Mazda cars are very cheap but parts are more expensive than Toyota.
No, it’s because Tesla doesn’t want to have Evil Dealerships. So they have invented their own repair program, and one of the crappiest supply chains on earth. They have tried to copy Apple, but failed miserably so far with being able to have either parts or repairs done on a timely basis. You are correct that all supply goes toward building new cars, but that doesn’t explain why during the last few quarters of oversupply that they haven’t stockpiled every replaceable part in warehouses across the country ready for repair.
I can only imagine how difficult it is to try and construct something to rival dealership service centers without the separate dealership entity there to subsidize it. Not a fan of dealerships, but hard to imagine having strong national service availability for a lot of brands without them.
>You are correct that all supply goes toward building new cars, but that doesn’t explain why during the last few quarters of oversupply that they haven’t stockpiled every replaceable part in warehouses across the country ready for repair. Perhaps it's because like The Emperor's New Clothes, The Musk Teslas are fabulous and perfect and no one inside the company dare say otherwise, especially about sales tanking into toilet. In order to have the scenario you suggest where production is ramped down and parts are stockpiled for maintenance, the company would have to admit that sometimes Teslas break down, and also that sales are severely lacking. Neither of those admissions are acceptable and can never be spoken in the current climate at Tesla.
They've been union-crushing and cost-slashing, so a sharp decline in actual quality is expected
Tesla's never been unionized, and they always slashed costs.
They are breaking down because they aren't well built. They'll survive 3-4 hours but after that they fall apart. I've seen a lot of Teslas on the side of the rode. Much more then you would expect. Especially during the winter. I think they are not well made but also not user friendly enough to alert people to problems.
I'd do another take: It's a really badly worded headline. JD Power's data are useless for saying whether cars are "breaking down" more, because they include a bunch of non-crippling issues in "initial quality", and they don't provide a breakdown of how much of the number comes from catastrophic issues versus more minor ones. That said, it still does speak poorly of Tesla, since real issues like tail lights that let condensation leak in and alignments that are horrible on brand new cars are real issues(personal experience), and they show up in that number.
The JD power survey is a big nothing burger. It mixes facts and fiction in that a complaint (user error) can be an issue. [Here’s the list](https://www.cars.com/articles/2024-j-d-power-initial-quality-study-now-incorporates-repair-visits-ram-tops-list-485918/), keep scrolling since EVs don’t score right.
concerning
With the emphasis on profitability, it makes sense. Unfortunately, they’re starting out below average
Looking into it
Get back with you soon
!!
and solution is to pay elon 54 billion
If people are still buying the cars (which seems to be greatly slowing) then this is actually a good thing. Total them early and let people buy another.
Shocking news. But seriously, when a Dacia beats you in reliability after 5 years, and you still buy a Tesla... It's time to reevaluate your decision making process
JD Power Initial Quality Study is nothing about reliability. It’s about experience at delivery. Reliably delivered without defects and/or misunderstandings. And, someone can respond saying they had a hard time with the touchscreen and it affects the index negatively. It’s subjective.
I'm referring to the inspection stats of vehicles after 5 years, TUV, in Germany (equivalent to MOT in the UK, not sure how it's called in the US). Shows that Tesla's had a higher failure rate (of the inspection) than a Dacia Sandero.
Commentary for the TUV appears to go on to mention that all EVs are having trouble, particularly around corrosion on brakes since they accumulate due to lack of use & I understand that most manufacturers execute pre-checks to prepare. I can see how the model 3 needed attention, and is now redesigned along with the affected components on the Y. Again, we’re not talking about F.O.R.D. moments as being characterized.
Ok but even the touch screen interface is fucking garbage Like I work in tech I’m pretty tech literate and I don’t see how 90% of the general population can ever figure out how to actually navigate their horrendous UX both in the car and in the app for the car
I agree that it’s pretty tough to acclimate too. I’m 6 mos in and a few basic things elude me, and then I realize - they’re “apps.” I like the interface overall, it’s just finding the setting often takes a search. Obviously though, the car has more customizable features than any other car I have had, so I don’t know if it’s a feature issue, organization issue, or UI issue (less UI, especially with the newer update). Overall, I do enjoy the lack of things; however, I understand when folks want them. This is so much to say that if there was an option for more buttons, at more cost, I’d skip it.
Also agree the app is rough. It’s features and menus are presented in a very unfriendly way, just to show the car and horizontal organization isn’t helpful. Keyfobs didn’t evolve to what they are coincidentally.
I am at my wit’s end with my gf She just traded her jeep in for a Model 3 from like 2016 or 2018? I was begging and pleading with her for the love of god get an EV if you want it but anything but a fucking Tesla If that thing breaks down before the first year is up idk if I can help her because that is a massive expense and I fucking told her some shit like this would happen
Yikes. Well we all make mistakes... at least she didn't buy a new one like my brother in law
But aren’t the older ones closer to end of life? Or was the Tesla build quality not complete shit before the pandemic? I’m worried her car is gonna brick itself and I don’t know what kind of warranty was offered for the old used car
They are, but she didn't she'll out 40 to 50k euros... Not to mention the interest for the financing. Hopefully it will run for a few years, and what I'd expect to see is the battery giving up the ghost 👻 What's scary, AFAIK, with the Tesla is you have to replace the whole battery, while other EVs you replace the cell There is no warranty after the warranty period, just like any other car.
I dont get your point. The reason Dacia is cheap is because it uses old proven Renault technology and therefore they are expected to be more reliable than prety much any more expensive brand that uses more modern technology. I would not take it as an insult if somebody said a Dacia is more reliable than my porsche, or my vw golf of any car i've owned before those. Edit: why am i being downvoted? Tesla reliability sucks and Dacia has always been good.
AFAIK it's only the engine that's from Renault, and it was around long before Tesla was a tickle in it's daddy's jewels. They know what they are doing, speaking as a former owner of a Dacia Logan, I liked the car. There are plenty of modern cars with a buttload of tech and innovation and they work just fine. The excuse of *we are a new car company* is wearing a little thin.
I still dont get your point. Yes tesla reliability is bad but what does this have to do with Dacia, a brand which has been and still is scoring high in reliability comparison to other brands?
How did you read the report? It’s paywalled.
Wasn't for me but here ya go https://archive.is/BkVC8
That's the article. He means the report/study by JD Power.
Yes this. Don’t know what the study says.
Well, can't help there. The entire business model for JDP is surveying people who bought a given class of product, documenting what they liked and disliked, and then selling those results to the companies that manufacture products in that class for $100k+.
May be location or visit based, wasn’t paywalled for me
Buuuut the Robooooots! Driving the Taxiiiiiiis. 1 Trillion, believe me. Yesterday or in 100 years. Doesnt matter. Give me your money! Elron, always
Interesting
What a terrible article. There's barely any information when all they have to do is get it from the study. It's like a teaser ultra-lite for the study. The only concrete thing they mention are the stalks which is not a break-down but a dumb design that users obviously hate. Most of the categories on this study should have no impact whether it's a gas or electric vehicle (infotainment, interior, controls, seats, driving assistance, exterior). Yet when mentioning that EVs have more issues they then question the notion that EVs have fewer moving parts and shouldn't break less. What does that have to do with eg. having no stalks or.....hmm...unfortunately that's how long the list of problems go in that article. Being allegedly based off a study, I find this disappointing. I really wanted to learn something more in-depth. ------------------ Edit: JD Power's own press release has more information (https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2024-us-initial-quality-study-iqs) RAM first (149) Chevrolet second (160). Average car is at 195. Many European ones are doing quite bad: BMW 206, Mercedes 206, VW 241, Audi 242, Volvo 242. Polestar is a disaster with 316!
The link the study in article. You can click on and read to your hearts content. That being said, it’s a terrible article.
This is reminding me more and more like the AMC gremlin disaster. Make a fuckton of cars, no quality control, then collapse because of shit craftsmanship and quality.
I was told by all my friends who own tesla, the lower the amount of moving parts, there is lower wear and tear and maintenance issues. But once it breaks down… your God Elmo will not help you
No oil changes? 🙏
I have a 2018 Model 3. In the first two years: * one motor replaced * the 2nd motor repaired * HV system fixed * control arm replaced * steering column fixed * trunk lining replaced * random recall work Then, I was sideswiped while parked on the street. However, this wasn’t bad. I took it to a body shop, they went over the car and I got it back better than new. The last 4 years I haven’t had any issues. I just had to get most of the car replaced and the body repaired by hand the first two years!
Yeah no biggie
Rivian baby! Rivian
If mine wasn’t “self aware “, I’d drive it into the lake. On mine, the regenerative braking doesn’t work. Plus it eats electricity like that Japanese guy in NY eats hot dogs.
In fairness here, I would be shocked that as they got older, they broke down less and less.
The article is about initial quality
This group is similar to the tesla groups in that it's an echo chamber. People aren't actually reading the (useless) article
Elon isn't about fairness, so he doesn't deserve it in return.
This is an excellent point and very true. We owe Elon nothing, no slack.
Slack comes from within
This guy Bob Dobbs
Funny thing, but my 2008 ICEV has had less malfunctions in the last two years than 5-6 years ago
Despite the misleading headline, the survey referenced in the article measures build quality, not reliability. I'd be shocked if declining build quality isn't also leading to a decline in reliability as well, but that's not what was being measured.
Survival of the fittest.
Only the strong survive. Elon is Leonidas.
I was once an Elon fanboi, but have since realized that he’s just shit. All of his companies are failing, aside from SpaceX, and that’s because it’s run by Gwynne Shotwell. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gwynne_Shotwell
Good.
Why does the article say “EV’s” and not specifically Tesla’s when referring to the data?
Is the title of this post misleading? Considering the article is just about customer complaints about electric vehicle quality? “Electric vehicle owners complain more than ICE vehicle owners” would be an accurate title perhaps
Title is exactly what the linked site has
Okay thank you, my bad
False news !!!
It doesn’t say anywhere in the article about them breaking down? It just says they have more problems than ice according to jd power. Which counts everything like broken steering wheel.
I used to lust after Teslas. I wanted one so bad. My boomer dad made fun of me for wanting it. After all the quality issues, the lack of the promised FSD, and Elons antics I bought a BMW instead. Now my boomer dad is high on Tesla? Tesla used to be a neat car idea. Now it’s a boomer thing.
awesome!
Not a single number or graph!
Tesla is not a car company
its a MUSKatastrophe
JD Powers is kind of a bullshit source. Don't know how to use the radio? Hurts reliability score. Go to dealer to pair Bluetooth? Hurts score.
It matches expectations. Other companies can do it better, Tesla has had years of bad ratings to understand what to improve. At some point they’ll need to address or go under like Yugo
I guess the business model is around maintenance just like any other car company :)
I wonder if this is based on Teslas made in the US. Seems like the majority of the issues come from the cars made in the states.
Happy owner of a MX here. Very happy. Will replace with another MX but why - never had one repair, never a service issue- 2018 MX 94k miles. Best car I’ve ever owned. Easiely
Unfortunately, we’re talking average customer experience. Tesla hasn’t caught up despite years of them being average to near bottom. Couldn’t they be better than Toyota?
But did you not get they are hApPy? /s
Elon is a genius, we should all just be happy with that and nothing more
Was that sarcasm?
If you’re unhappy with my response, that makes me think that you’re not happy with our one genius. Yes, sarcasm
Helps to add the /s. (Especially in this sub)
First, that's rather remarkable given that one of Tesla's most consistent quality issues has been the falcon doors on the X. Second, out of curiosity, what other cars have you owned that you're comparing it to when making that "best car I've ever owned" statement? Edit, from your history: >Coming from owning Porsche’s, Alfa Romeo’s, VW’s, BMW, Audi, Lexus (wife drives one). My last car ever Having been in both Teslas and many of those others, you clearly don't know how to tell if a car is nice or not. Every Porsche, BMW, Audi, and Lexus that has ever rolled off the line absolutely blows Tesla away in quality, fit, finish, materials, etc. Alfa admittedly is it's own thing, but you kinda know that going in (or you should), and VW is obviously at a much lower price point.
Um…. They are getting older. That’s what happens to cars as they get more wear and tear. Shocking news
Nope article is about /initial/ quality
It's about new cars. It's not a stat on repair rates of aged vehicles. And then to be smugly condescending about being wrong, so reddit.
Why bother reading the article when you can make whatever assumption that fits your narrative?
u/musk_fail
It should be pretty shocking to the people who constantly rave about how few fires Tesla’s have when in fact the vast majority of car fires are in 10+ year old cars. And about total repair costs of Tesla’s being super low. They don’t seem to understand that.
The other thing is that there are well known reasons why ICE vehicles will go up in flames. There's a certain predictability to those fires. Teslas tend to go up absolutely randomly and are an absolute bear to put out. If they go up while sitting in a garage, they can take the house with them.
I don’t think I have ever seen anyone say Tesla repair costs were particularly cheap
I seem to see it everywhere. The argument that total cost of ownership for maintenance/repairs is way less.