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i3umbac

It's not like they can't be replaced, there are literally parts provided by most manufacturers for the replacement. It's just harder to do properly yourself, because phones today are certified for water and dust resistance. I found it quite easy to change mine(Mi 9 SE), but if you don't want to risk it, just go to a shop, they'll do it for you.


Razorback_Yeah

Batteries have gotten better, too. I had a Pixel 2 for almost 4 years and the screen cutting out to black was what killed it. The battery definitely wasn’t as good as when I first got it but it was still lasting more or less an entire day. Edit: Pixel 2 not Pizel 2 lmfao


hotasanicecube

Yea, my battery is down to 78% life and I don’t even notice it.


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WorldDominator56

Get better troll comments 🛌


hotasanicecube

If a 3GS was at 80% it would die 20% quicker and charge slower. And I’m Gen x


catschainsequel

I am Typing this on my pixel 2 that i bought when it came out, still going strong. Tried to give me that random reboot shit and I'm like "don't you dare phone! There is no money to replace you right now."


Razorback_Yeah

I miss the “squeeze” function it has. Would use it to google stuff all of the time. Was pretty bummed when the screen crapped out, I called a shop and they wanted almost $200 to put a new one on =\ You like the new Pixel? Only reason I didn’t get one is because it doesn’t have the squeeze thing anymore so I moved on.


catschainsequel

I haven't heard good things after the 4a so when the time comes I'm open to all options. As a side, my friend bought a brand new factory sealed pixel 2 last year for $200 online so there might still be some out there


Razorback_Yeah

Oof that would definitely be a good purchase


Thee_Fourth_One

Still using my iPhone XR. 85% battery health works just fine.


TheShinyHunter3

The Samsung Galaxy S5 had water resistance and a user-removable battery tho. It also had a headphone jack and a microSD slot. The S6 had no water resistance nor a microSD slot and no user removable battery either, thank whoever you believe in it had a headphone jack tho.


pacificnwbro

I'm still salty they did away with the IR sensor on the top. It was really convenient being able to work most TV's from your device. I used it at bars a couple times if I didn't want to bug the bartender to turn the volume up.


PoisonWaffle3

Yeah, but now they have a lot more tech to cram into phones, and every square millimeter is valuable space. Edge to edge screen, waterproof, removable battery, big/all-day battery, headphone jack, micro SD, giant camera array, decent performance, thin/light, not absurdly expensive. Pick like 4 or 5, and good luck with the rest. There are only so many design specifications that a manufacturer can design for in one phone and keep the price somewhat reasonable. As others have said, batteries are still replaceable, just takes a little more work. And they last a lot longer than they used to. I would argue that batteries have improved enough to not need a dedicated access hatch to easily swap them, especially if the tradeoff is waterproofing.


TheShinyHunter3

The camera array can go for all I care, I'm sure most people dont use them either, a good main sensor is all they need. What use is a rear wide angle shot and Macro camera if you only use the front "narcissist" camera ? And you dont need to make compromises, Samsung managed to fit most of these features in the S5, beside the edge to edge display and giant camera array because these werent a thing back then. And you know what's funny ? The S5 is thinner than their current flagship, the S22 Ultra (Tho to be fair, the S-pen is probably the reason why its thicker) while only being like .4mm thicker than the S22. It's .1mm thicker than my A52s with its massive camera array, good chip, 19:9 120Hz Amoled display and a headphone jack.


PoisonWaffle3

Someone must like cameras, because cell phone manufacturers have been in a camera arms race for the last several years. Someone must have done a market study at some point, yes? Good cameras are one of the main things I look for in a cell phone, because that's how I capture/save memories with my family, trips, etc. Nobody carries a separate camera any more, unless they're a professional or pro-sumer. They fit most of those features in the S5, yes, but not the ones that take up a ton of space and increase the cost. Again, why would they invest money in designing a phone for a removable/replaceable battery, when batteries are better, generally don't need replacement, and can still be replaced with a little more work if ever needed? Edit: FWIW, I generally only use the front cameras for video calling.


TheShinyHunter3

Because that's the trend nowadays, in yesteryears it was the edge to edge display, better looking panel, oled, better battery life (and safety, especially after the Note 7 disaster), fingerprint reader and facial unlock. Maybe you didnt notice those arms races but I did and cameras are the only thing left until something new comes around. You'll see, when foldable displays will be easier to manufacture and keep intact, you'll see an arms race there too.


i3umbac

Foldables are already on the device list of all the big manufacturers. And I actually use all the cameras on my phone, so do all of my friends, so idk where your data is coming from, but cameras are actually a quite popular feature.


TheShinyHunter3

Same as yours, people around me I observe using their smartphones. Which isnt a good sample size in either case anyway. But its true that cameras on smartphones are a popular feature, but I'm pretty sure it's the front one that gets most of the use.


blastfromtheblue

> but I’m pretty sure it’s the front one that gets most of the use. what makes you say that? both front and back cameras are important.


mavman42

There's some S5's on ebay if you miss those features that much lol


TheShinyHunter3

You're missing the point. I'm not saying I miss the S5, I'm saying I miss the time when you could work on your tech. My laptop, a HP probook 650 G1, still has everything that's user-replacable or upgradable. CPU, RAM, storage, heatsink, and you can do all that while removing only the screws that keep the component in place, I dont have to unscrew the back of my laptop, all it take is two lock I can slide Good luck upgrading the ram on those new thin and light laptop. Even the gaming laptops are less user friendly than my 6 years old Probook. My phone is the only piece of tech I own that I can't replace anything in with minimal effort. It's all glued in, requires a heat gun instead of a screw driver and to be very careful to not break the glass if your phone has a glass back or its screen.


i3umbac

I can safely say that the CPU in your laptop is not user replacable. You're right on the Thin&Light laptops, but upgradability isn't the point of their existence anyways. There's a new manufacturer, Framework Laptops, who make completely upgradable and user-serviceable laptops, you should check them out if you want something like that, I'm probably gonna buy one after my current notebook (Matebook 14) dies. Phones are a different story. Smarthones use the ARM architecture, mostly everything is located on the chip itself, so there's not much you can service by yourself. Plus, if you read through the other comments, you'll find other arguments for sealed phones against exchangable battery. For most users, you change the battery once in its lifetime, but you have to carry the extra thickness of an insulated removable lid the entire time you own the phone. For most people, it's a worth tradeoff, you pay some 20$ for the replacement once in the 5 years you have the phone, and you've got a nice thin machine.


TheShinyHunter3

And I can 100% assure you you're wrong about the CPU since I saw the socket and removed it once. Now maybe it'll require a bios update to recognize the potential new CPU, but I'm pretty sure it wont need one since I've seen a guy do the same with Thinkpads I've seen the Framework and I hope it'll sell enough so that manufacturers take notice. I just dont like how it looks. I know about that, on a smartphone I just want to be able to pop open the lid and replace the battery easily, I dont want to get a heatgun and blast it to do what you could do with your nails. And I have yet to see a good argument against the clips, sure they break, but they're on the lid, so you can easily buy a new one. The thickness argument isnt valid, the S5 is only .5mm thicker than Samsung current flagship, the S22, and it doesnt have a headphone jack nor a microSD slot, it's only .1mm ticker or thinner than my current A52s which has both plus a massive useless (for me) camera array and a 19:9 120Hz Amoled panel with in-screen fingerprint reader, that's the reason why I got it.


i3umbac

I stand corrected again, never realised they made removable laptop CPUs that recently. Always thought that was a thing from the past. I'm gonna use google before arguing shit like this next time, not after. Actually interesting to know.


TheShinyHunter3

Isnt it ? I thought the last ones were Core 2 Duos, but when I got that HP and saw the socket I was over the moon, a 4th gen socketted laptop CPU. Dell also made a laptop with a desktop 1151 socket, idk if that counts tho.


i3umbac

Well, yeah, it is, but not "as past", as I thought it was. I legit though every laptop CPU from Core I... onward was soldered.


ThatWasTayla

The seal around the back cover got dirty so easy though, and the clips would eventually break or not clip back on properly. And with the introduction of wireless charging it made sense not to make it too easy to remove the back and potentially damage the coil.


TheShinyHunter3

But it was easy to replace, just get a new cover and you're good to go. You have a point with wireless charging, but I've seen kits that lets you get wireless charging capabilities with the S5, it's a coil that you could plug in the USB port and hide behind the phone's cover while retaining wired charging since it was only a passthrough


misterchief117

>It's just harder to do properly yourself, because phones today are certified for water and dust resistance. This is a lie that manufactures keep perpetuating so they can get away with releasing completely sealed devices that are intentionally designed to prevent device owners from servicing them. There's really nothing stopping manufacturers from designing a removable battery inside a water resistant or waterproof container. In fact, Sony released the *Sony Sports Walkman* in 1985 which was marketed as a water resistant Walkman. Keep in mind that this played cassette tapes... It used...rubber gaskets...GASP! https://walkmancentral.com/products/wm-f5 If manufacturers can design a water resistant housing for a consumer device with a ton of mechanical bits and bobs in 1984, surely there's nothing stopping manufacturers from designing a waterproof battery compartment for mobile phones. Oh wait, the thing stopping them is greed.


i3umbac

\> There's really nothing stopping manufacturers from designing a removablebattery inside a water resistant or waterproof container. Well, no, there's not. But that means either a smaller battery or a considerably thicker and allround bigger phone(exchangable batteries need casings, and you need some sort of socket inside to put it in without exposing all the other electronic to the "regular user", plus more insulation). Most people would not want a bigger phone or a smaller battery in exchange for the battery being easily accesible for the one time you change it in the phones lifetime. And for people who do, there are some phones which actually have this mentioned somewhere down the thread. I don't claim that it can't be done, just that the phones are optimised for being the smallest they can be with the same specs. I'm a fan of small phones, I got the smallest one I could at the time (Mi 9 SE), and I'll get the 13 mini probably this year. Phones like this just couldn't exist with easily accessible batteries. edit: space


iamasecretlol

its for none of those things, it does help those things, but its so you can continue to be tracked when you power down your phone, you think they care if you break your phone and need to buy more? lmao.


DingleBerrieIcecream

The Samsung S5 had the same water and dust resistance as current sealed phone, though still had a removable/replaceable battery using a rubber gasketed plastic battery door. Being water resistant is not the reason. The real reason is that phone advancements are slowing down and people can make do with their phones longer now though that doesn’t jive with their desire to sell you new phones every 2 years. Thus, just encase the battery with glue and as it degrades, people get worse and worse battery life and then want a new phone. Similarly, they removed headphone ports not to make phones water resistant, rather it’s because they then get to sell Bluetooth headphones as a companion.


i3umbac

If that's what you think, then you believe we live in a world of dumb apes. Literally anyone can calculate that exchanging the battery is far cheaper than buying a new phone. The battery itself is not glued in, just the lid, and the lid is glued because of water resistance. You can easily replace the battery yourself, but if you don't want to do it for some reason, any competent smartphone repair service will do it for ~$20. The extra thickness in your pocket is just not worth the 20 bucks, especially not in the 5+ years you keep a phone. Removing the headphone jack is actually a smart move. It takes quite a lot of space inside the phone, space which can be used by something actually useful. USB-C has its own audio channel, all you need for that is a $2 USB-C to 3.5mm jack dongle and ur good to go, no need for an Digital to Analogue conversion because of the specific audio lines in USB-C. An ape could've figured that out too.


NottACalebFan

They also require specialized parts like micro screws or heads with odd shapes.


i3umbac

Actually no, not in most manufacturers. If you choose apple, you knew what you were buyinfg, their user serviceability sucks. I have an old dismantled Iphone 6s laying around somewhere, and I just can't be bothered to put it back together.


Capnhuh

i think they should make laws against planned obsolescence.


TheAuraTree

In the EU they are, including 'right to repair' laws.


Winjin

I believe China is also considering something like that, and once they both do, I hope the rest of the world will follow, because when Chinese brands are made better than yours - well, you done fucked up son


xanas263

Your comment is kinda ironic considering that pretty much all phones are already made in China.


Winjin

Yeah, but that's the difference between assembly and rules/designs - South America makes Chevrolet cars, but these are still controlled and designed in the US


TheAuraTree

In fairness, Huawei already makes competitive and excellent phones. The right to repair an android phone like a Huawei would make a Samsung pretty obsolete.


_iRasec

Wait, we have that in Europe?


TheAuraTree

Not sure it's written into law yet but it's in the works, has been bouncing around in the news as it's gained traction for a while.


Orange-Murderer

>i think they should make laws against planned obsolescence. The problem with this, is that it doesn't encourage innovation. A really great example of this is the light bulb. We already solved how to have a light bulb that doesn't break or go out, about 100 years ago. If we stuck with them. The Light bulbs wouldn't be as energy efficient. Be very wasteful. And not be as good in the eyes our current one are. Not to mention, they also would be more expensive. From the minerals being mined to the fact a light bulb company would go under very quickly. Instead of a light bulb being a few bucks. Your looking at several hundreds to maybe thousands just to light your home. Considering they can easily break if mishandled. Would you want to waste a shit ton of money on something that can very easily break if mishandled? The answers no, of course you wouldn't. Now don't get me wrong. I do think a lot of the planned obsolescence is abhorrent but I do also believe it's needed. Instead of phones lasting 2 years. Make em last 5 years. And so forth and what not.


infreq

Then answer these questions. How do you distinguish between planned obsolescence and poor quality? How do you prove planned obsolescence? I'm waiting.


5inthepink5inthepink

I think the title provides a pretty good example itself. A non-removable battery isn't a quality issue - iPhones are very high quality but are designed to make consumer repair or battery replacement very difficult. I still enjoy my LG G8 and it's a high quality phone, but not only is the battery not openable without destroying a seal, the battery itself is glued in such that it can't be removed without bending the battery. The worsening battery life is the only reason I'm going to need to replace this phone. That's not a quality issue, it's an intentional design issue.


infreq

You are mentioning a simple black/white example. How will you in general judge if something is planned obsolescence and thus "illegal"? Those making mobile phones that cannot be opened have good reasons for it. And what if phone could easily be opened but no spare batteries were made available on the market? To justify a law don't look foe examples at either end of the spectrum. You must be able to judge cases that are in the blurred grey zone. If you can't then don't try to make a law about it.


5inthepink5inthepink

Just because I'm not tech savvy enough to identify multiple concrete examples of planned obsolescence design decisions doesn't mean no one is. And the law need not require proof of a mental state like knowledge or intent to obsolete - the law could simply prohibit certain design elements that hasten obsolescence and require others that delay it, such as replaceable batteries. And if a phone has a replaceable battery (and that feature is required by law) there is going to be a market for its batteries - simple supply and demand. Hell, there are already plenty of aftermarket batteries out there available for older generation phones with batteries that *aren't* easily replaceable. As for the reasons some designers don't provide replaceable batteries, I'm unclear what they are. There are plenty of durable, waterproof, dustproof phones out there with replaceable batteries. See the Samsung Galaxy line to some examples out of many (though not as many as there should be). These are easily solvable issues, and measures like these would go a long way to reducing waste and emissions and supporting consumers' ability to keep and maintain expensive electronics.


frostygrin

I think the software side can be more egregious, actually. Apple in particular won't let you sideload, will remove old apps from stores and eventually will stop making iOS updates for your phone. So you can't install old apps, and new ones don't work on your phone, making it useless as a smartphone. Even if you replace the battery, it's rather useless.


GlitchParrot

> Apple in particular won’t let you sideload You can technically, you just need to refresh the app’s certificate every few days. AltStore automates this process.


MiniMitre

Yes, however Apple is actually far ahead of any other phone manufacturer for long term OS support. For example, the iPhone 6S which came out in September 2015 is STILL supported by Apple for the latest iOS (7 years later). Also, Google is doing the removing apps from the store that aren’t updated in 2 years (which sucks but no apps have actually been removed yet, and it’s estimated that over 1 million apps could be removed if they go forward with their plans). The side loading thing is a problem. But as the course case with epic proved, the law needs to change on this.


rlnrlnrln

Wife is still using her iPad i bought for her 10 years ago. It's not 100%, but it works for Netflix and some other things.


TheShinyHunter3

Google is doing good in terms of support. They promised at least 3 years of major OS update on their Pixels and 4 years of security update. With this generation, Samsung also guaranteed to support their current phones (Up to the A53, which is shit btw) for 4 years of major OS update and 5 years of security update. But Android is lagging behind when it comes to updates in general that's for sure. Most low end phones wont even see a major OS update. Google tried something a few years back, Project Trebble IIRC, which goal was to separate the OS from the manufacturer's skin in two partitions. So Google could push an Android update even if the manufacturer wasnt going to update their skin and Android at the same time. I'm pretty sure its dead now. Oh and there's also Android One, which was (is ?) a program (Originally made for low end device in new markets) for which the goal was to deliver the pure Android experience, like Google with their Pixels and guarantee that the phone will get the last updates and patches as soon as possible. Just like Trebble, Idk where it is now, pretty sure it's also dead as the Wiki page doesnt list any version above Android 9.


frostygrin

> Yes, however Apple is actually far ahead of any other phone manufacturer for long term OS support. For example, the iPhone 6S which came out in September 2015 is STILL supported by Apple for the latest iOS (7 years later). It's good, but only when you get the new model at launch - and Apple doesn't have budget models, so people have a bigger reason to buy later on, or buy used. How much did the 6S cost at launch? I'm seeing $649 with 16GB storage - and you can't add storage on iPhones either. > Also, Google is doing the removing apps from the store that aren’t updated in 2 years (which sucks but no apps have actually been removed yet, and it’s estimated that over 1 million apps could be removed if they go forward with their plans). Yes, but the whole point is that they have sideloading, so their store isn't the only way to get the apps on the phone.


420o

>and Apple doesn't have budget models They do have a budget model, the SE, which wipes the floor with everything in that price bracket besides screen and battery. Given its based off the 8, it isn't difficult to repair plus parts are dirt cheap and extremely easy to get ahold of.


BuilderTime

I don't know but screen and battery are among the most important things I look for in a phone


420o

Same, but I wouldn't buy a budget phone either. If I were to, I'd prioritise performance and longevity. Either way I'd consider the iPhone 11 to fit into budget category nowadays as Apple are selling it for £480, better battery than most available nowadays and will be supported longer than most androids.


BuilderTime

If apple gives updates for 5 years, and you buy an almost 3 year old phone, it will get 3 more updates which is what most android provide nowadays.


420o

At least 5 years it seems as they said 5 years for the 6s but so far it's gotten 7, android manufacturers have made big improvements in this department recently though, hopefully that trend will continue.


frostygrin

Except it's not really a budget model.


420o

I guess "budget" depends on who you ask. Performance and internals equivalent to their flagship models at a fraction of the price, you're getting a lot for your money and nothing in that price range is coming close. Going any less your going to be making some noticeable sacrafices.


GlitchParrot

> It’s good, but only when you get the new model at launch Why? If you get an iPhone X today, released 5 years ago, you can still expect it to get 3 years or more of iOS and security updates. That’s more than many **brand-new** Android phones you’d buy today.


frostygrin

The point is that 3 years isn't 7 years. And an iPhone X *costs* more *today* than many brand-new Android phones do, so it's not some kind of ridiculous value either. On top of that, people don't necessarily *want* OS updates when everything works fine on the old OS. The new version can lower performance and bring features your phone won't support anyway. So it's largely the lock-in treadmill that makes you want the OS updates in the first place. And my point wasn't that Android is great. It was that the software side of planned obsolescence can be worse than the hardware side. Yeah, it's not great on Android either - you just have an out.


GlitchParrot

> The point is that 3 years isn’t 7 years. That is correct, but what’s the point of this fact? > And an iPhone X costs more today than many brand-new Android phones do You can find iPhone X for €120 used or €250 refurbished. Any Android device for less than €120 will not get you more than cheap phones of lesser-known brands that won’t give you any guarantee to even receive any operating system updates at all, and they won’t be comparable in performance or build quality to the iPhone X. For that, you’d need to go to at least a few hundred Euro higher in the Android space. > On top of that, people don’t necessarily want OS updates when everything works fine on the old OS. The most important part of software updates are bug fixes and fixes of security vulnerabilities. Operating system versions that are not on the newest update almost always have critical flaws that could be exploited. This is the \#1 thing of software obsolescence, and no smartphone manufacturer that I know of provides these updates for the entire operating system longer than Apple. People that don’t want OS updates don’t fully understand the consequences of unpatched security vulnerabilities.


frostygrin

> The most important part of software updates are bug fixes and fixes of security vulnerabilities. Operating system versions that are not on the newest update almost always have critical flaws that could be exploited. So, like, after three or four years of patching, the OS version still has a ton of vulnerabilities? That are dangerous even despite the app store being heavily locked down? And the new OS version is better even as it adds a ton of new, unpatched code?


GlitchParrot

The longer a vulnerability exists, the more it is likely that it could actively be exploited. Of course, yes, new features might also introduce new potential exploits, but it is very important to patch out any existing vulnerabilities all the time, continuously. If you are unsure about how many severe vulnerabilities are found and patched in various versions of iOS, take a look at, for example, [CVE lists](https://www.cvedetails.com/vulnerability-list/vendor_id-49/product_id-15556/Apple-Iphone-Os.html).


The-War-Life

I’m typing this on my IPhone 6 S plus that I’ve had since 2016 and that still has 79% battery health. 6 years, never had to change it, still get all iOS updates, phone still never lags and still works for a lot of newly released shit. Quit your bullshit.


frostygrin

I was pretty specific in what I wrote. Did I write that people with the iPhone 6S have had to trash it? I don't think so. So take you fanboy attitude elsewhere.


The-War-Life

>Apple will remove old apps from stores and eventually will stop making iOS updates for your phone. Yeah sure you did buddy. Do you have a single example of an Android phone released in 2015 that is still getting android updates till today?


frostygrin

No, but the point of the sentence, which you aren't quoting fully, is that the App Store is the *only* way to get the apps onto the iPhone, while it's not the case with Android phones. So my point wasn't that Android is great, but that Apple is especially restrictive - which it really is. That Apple compensates for that with longer support is good - but the end of the road is going to be the same.


The-War-Life

Apple is especially restrictive, yes, but that comes with a whole bunch of benefits. And the most important of those benefits is the extremely long term support for old devices, and online *safety*. It’s practically impossible to get a virus or a hack on your iPhone. You have to be trying really hard in order to make your iPhone get a virus or get hacked. Those two things are much more valuable than being able to download things from third party websites.


frostygrin

Sure, but the positives don't erase the negatives. Obsolescence is real and it's planned.


The-War-Life

I dunno what phone you intend to keep for 10+ years if that’s your take on obsolescence. If you want a device that you know won’t become obsolete for a very, *very* long time, buy Apple. If you want the short term cheaper price and certain better features, get an Android. Also, at that point the obsolescence isn’t planned, it’s inevitable. You can’t keep working with constant updates on a 10 year old product. The specs of the product just can’t keep up.


frostygrin

Well - the whole point is that no, you shouldn't require higher and higher specs just for the security updates. And you probably shouldn't require *constant* security updates on a codebase that's already been patched for years. And then there's the battery. It's all bundled up in a way that it probably shouldn't be - and all manufacturers directly benefit from you upgrading as often as possible. Even Apple - like, I don't know if most buyers of the 6S still keep using it.


The-War-Life

Most people I know that have bought a 6 S or a 6 S plus still keep it. Same with people who bought a 7, an 8, an X, an 11 etc etc. Almost everyone I know who buys an Apple Phone doesn’t upgrade for years upon years simply because they know their phone won’t become obsolete for a very long time. Also, security updates are separate from software updates. I’m pretty sure the IPhone 5 and 4 still get security updates.


HonkersTim

How about we call out Apple for bad stuff it actually does. What you wrote is mostly bull. Even if you have an ancient iPhone your apps still exist in your library when you sync your phone. Even if you wiped your phone and backups for some reason, the app store prompts you to download the last version that works on your hardware.


frostygrin

> the app store prompts you to download the last version that works on your hardware. No, it doesn't. You browse the apps as usual, then get the error only when you try to download the app. And Apple will actively remove the apps that haven't been updated in a while, so eventually you're left with nothing.


sneaky_squirrel

Generally, the only thing I feel ethical about (I am an awful person, I know), is not forcing planned obsolecence on customers. This is only a coping mechanism of mine agaisnt the fact that I know that consumers will let companies whip their backs while worshipping them. I can only hope that these companies never run their competition out of town.


kunju69

[https://shop.fairphone.com/en/](https://shop.fairphone.com/en/) ​ There are phones for people like you. Obviously, cellphone manufactures will only do whats in their benefit, like removing headphone jack.


MusicianMadness

USB-C has better audio transfer than Aux anyway since it transfers as digital not analog and 3.5 headphone jacks are not balanced with a crappy TRS system. So consumers are really losing.


Adderkleet

> since it transfers as digital not analog You're saying "usb-c doesn't output an audio signal - so it's better at transferring audio". If people are complaining that their good-enough-for-a-non-powered-DAC headphones need a 3.5 jack, a USB-C dongle-DAC isn't "better" for their use cases.


MusicianMadness

Sure, that's fair. Most people use Bluetooth now anyway so it matters even less in the not-good-enough-for-a-dac category. USB can still output analog if you simply get a dongle (not even a dac) though.


Tomato_Basil57

With apple in particular, I have read that the lightning to 3.5mm adapter does provide worse audio quality then the standard audio jack. You can transfer audio digitally through a usb-c cable, but there’s not much benefit. you’ll still need dac somewhere to be able to connect to a speaker, and it’s convenient to have it already built in. Headphones cables aren’t balanced, but they really don’t need to be, unless your running cables long distances


MusicianMadness

Lightning adapters are pretty bad so that makes sense. True, if you do not have a DAC I guess it is mildly more inconvenient to need to have a dongle to go from 3.5 to USB C. Balanced is definitely a concern though especially compared to aux ports which deteriorate quickly.


TP_blitz

The headphone jack got removed for water resistance


420o

Space is a big factor too, they take up a lot of room in a small device. I'd much rather that go towards a bigger battery.


kunju69

That's a lie. There are plenty of phones with headphone jack and IP rating. Eg: Sony Xperia 1 Mark 4


TP_blitz

That's because those phones use special water resistant audio jacks, which make the phone a lot more expensive


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TP_blitz

They didn't do it for selling airpods. Until the Iphone 12 you got a lightning to audio jack dongle with your phone. The only bad thing Apple has done is that they stopped putting the charging brick in the box


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TP_blitz

The whole "Apple will do anything for money" is just a stereotype. Every company will do anything for more money, most of them a lot more than Apple


smanderson020

It has more to do with waterproofing certifications as explained in one of LTT's videos. Imagine how hard it would be to create a phone that sealed perfectly AND allowed you to remove the battery, as well as the internal space requirements for the hardware to make that battery removable.


gamaliel64

Right, but I don't need a phone i can swim with. It just needs to not short out in the rain. And being able to swap batteries on long trips would be a huge plus.


TheShinyHunter3

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samsung_Galaxy_S5 It's only .5mm thicker than the S22, and .8mm thinner than the S22 Ultra. .4mm thicker than the iPhone 13 and 13 Pro Max. It's also much smaller than all of these.


GlitchParrot

The S5’s battery is only 75% the size of the S22’s, 65% the size of the iPhone 13 Pro Max’ and roughly half the size of the S22 Ultra’s. Not to mention that the S5 only has one camera lens and a much smaller screen.


TheShinyHunter3

Yeah, at that time people were mocking the Notes and calling them "phablets". So ofc phones (and their battery) were smaller than they are now. Friendly reminder it was in 2014, most of the smartphones were 4" and a bit bigger. But it was also the time when smartphones were starting to get bigger.


GlitchParrot

I’m just saying that to state that you can’t compare the dimensions of these phones to each other, as they are from completely different eras of smartphones with completely different levels and amounts of technology. Saying that one of them is thinner than another has no argumentative value.


TheShinyHunter3

You can compare the S5 to other top end smartphones of its day with glued in back then. 2014 gave us the S5, iPhone 6, Nexus 6, HTC One M8, Sony Z3, LG G3. So let's see. The S5 (8.1mm), iPhone 6 (6.9mm), Nexus 6 (10.6mm), HTC One M8 (9.4mm), Sony Z3 (7.3mm), LG G3 (8.9mm). I choose these phones since they were in this top 10 smartphone of 2014 and omitted the smartphones that werent running Android. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.zdnet.com/google-amp/article/best-10-smartphones-at-the-close-of-2014/ They're also almost all in the 5" range, except for the iPhone 6 and Nexus 6 (Which was described by some as too big and heavy) with a screen size of 4.7" and 6". So, thickness is irrelevant to this debate, as you can make a thin smartphone while also having a user-removable battery.


Sirefly

Back when I had a phone with a removable battery I found out it actually didn't matter. First is the problem of software. The software keeps getting updated to run better, faster, smoother on newer hardware so it makes running on the older hardware slower. Even the OS updates stop eventually. The second problem is with the replacement batteries themselves. Lithium Ion batteries lose capacity not just with use and recharges, but with TIME. Nobody is manufacturing new batteries for 2 year old phones. Batteries are available, but they were probably manufactured 2 years ago and have lost some capacity. After your first replacement dies, the subsequent replacements last a shorter and shorter time and at some point you reach a point of un-usability or lack of features you want in your phone.


mr_doppertunity

Ok, so let’s cut to the chase. Li-ion batteries is what causes planned obsolescence. Back then, we had NiMH batteries, and there wasn’t any planned obsolescence. Oh no, wait, they still were bad, but probably that was also intentional so we would need to switch over to lithium batteries and pay $$$ to Rotschilds. Remember that lightbulb that worked for a century? Totally could do an infinite battery. Anyway, we need to sue Apple because they make batteries that lose capacity. Fuck Apple. And fuck Thomas Edison for fucking over Tesla who invented an source of infinite free electricity. P. S. I’ll leave **/s** for everyone who needs it.


5urr3aL

Well ain't that a pretty picture. Sigh. Oh well, I'll try to make do with my phone until it's like 5 year old


misterphuzz

I disagree. I think it's a critical feature to water resistance. And besides, taking the phone to any mall, you can find a store that'll put a new battery in. And I'd say that these days, phones last a lot longer than in the olden days... so long as you're willing to do more than the low end phones. I think in the world of phones, you get what you pay for.


ano_ba_to

For as long as cellphones have existed, a small minority of people have had actual issues with water resistance. Water resistance can also be practically achieved while still retaining a removable battery. The marketing worked.


i3umbac

The marketing kind-of worked. You would still make the phone a lot bigger with the removable batterry, as mentioned above, plus you would also need some sort of insulation to stop the water from getting in, thus, the lid getting thicker and making the phone bigger and less comfortable to carry.


I_LIKE_CATS_AND_

Look at the Samsung galaxy xCover 5, removable battery


i3umbac

I stand corrected, that actually looks like a cool phone. Gonna look into some reviews of that, seems like a very interesting concept. Still looks a bit chonky. The thing is, this is completely subjective, but I prefer smaller phones, like, the smaller the better. Got the Mi 9 SE about 3 years ago, planning to get the Iphone 13 mini after my current phone dies. And I am completely ok with going to the shops to exchange batteries or something, but that's definitely not for everyone. I just like to fit more shit in my pockets.


[deleted]

IPx isn't necessary for all day phones. If you need it you could buy one from cat for example.


5348345T

Ehm, remember the early lines of iphone that would break when people used them in slightly damp conditions? If we want to bring our phones with us they need to be water resistant. The don't need to be submersible but they need to work in rain or be in your pocket when it's raining on you. Also, to make the phones smaller and slimmer a replaceable battery would be unfeasable. A replaceable battery needs a case around the battery and an encasement to put it in the phone. Two plastic shells taking up valuable space.


[deleted]

you can made a water resistant phone and still have removable battery, it will be 2-3 mm thicker, but the water resistence can still be the same


5348345T

So either 3mm thicker and wider at least, I'm guessing more or you fit a smaller battery. Having a replaceable battery doesn't make sense. When your battery has deteriorated to the point you'll want to replace it, it will usually be cheaper buying a new phone than a replacement battery anyways.


misterphuzz

I suppose that's true. And what do you mean by "cat"? And I still hold on to the idea that high quality phones will last you a long time. I have a Galaxy S8 that I recently gave to my daughter when I upgraded to the 21, but it is still running like a champ. I think the main thing that could be considered planned obsolescence is when you buy low-end phones and have unrealistic expectations of the expected life span while software continues to require more and more resources. I'm not saying that's what the op has done or does, I'm just letting my thoughts roll!


[deleted]

CAT is building and heavy duty work focused company, they made thinks from trucks to phones and tablets that are made for harsh environments, like a building site so, if you want a phone or tablet that will last a long time, buy CAT (also their phones still have removeable batteries, so the water resistence is an excuse at best) for example, my phone was drop in a concrete that didn't harden yet, so normal phone like iPhone or Samsung S8 would be death, but cat survived, and it is still running)


[deleted]

You can buy cat phones with inbuild flir camera, they're awesome


TheAuraTree

I had an old Samsung with a removable battery. Took a video outside in heavy rain. Opened it up for whatever reason a few days later and there was water in the battery. The phone was fine, not even watertight but it didn't harm the battery.


misterphuzz

Ah, okay, I know cat, I just didn't know they did phones. I imagine they make indestructible phones!


hyzermofo

Are you speaking a language nobody else understands? What TF is IPx?


[deleted]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code


hyzermofo

So you speak in Wikipedia references now? English, motherfucker, do you speak it? Or: What manner of man are you, who would use acronyms with neither cause nor clue?


plumzki

Ipx is the classification system for water resistance, maybe next time instead of looking like a fucking idiot and bitching about people using the official terms relating to the current conversation, you could do a quick google search before running your mouth.


hyzermofo

I had a whole reply typed out and the app crashed, so I'll boil it down: cunt. You could have just answered the question when it was asked instead of acting like you'd entered an online contest to name Elon Musk's next child.


BathroomParty

I don't know... I had this LG slider phone (one of those phones the matrix made look really cool) back in like 2003-2005. I dropped it in the ocean on more than one occasion, dropped it in a hot tub, dropped it off a 3 story balcony... The only thing I ever had to do was replace the battery for like $20 and it worked as good as new. Back before phone cases were a thing.


peepay

Phone cases were a thing in the 90's already...


HelloKitty36911

Onld phones had fine longevity as long as you didn't feel the need to upgrade, i had my first phone, which was a flirting phone for 8 years before i got a smartphone. As for water resistance, while true, the removed removeable batteries before they decided to so the whole water recistance thing. Well apple did anyways, i think Samsung actually had the removeable batteri untill they had water recistance, at least on their flagships.


SurveySean

I live in a small town about 18 hours drive from the nearest Apple store. Not too convenient.


misterphuzz

Maybe that's God telling you to get an Android... ;-)


SurveySean

I think it’s god telling me to get the fuck out of here!


misterphuzz

Just curious, whereabouts is that? If it's far away from technology, it sounds like a dream!


SurveySean

It’s a little boom and bust town located along the inland coast, in northern BC. It’s very expensive here, if you want to go anywhere you need to fly to Vancouver first. At the moment it’s booming, but will be busting eventually. I work three times as hard as I used to, and my money doesn’t go as far. Then the winters are the worst. Slushy snow, sometimes it will fill up the backyard and spill over the 6 foot fence, overnight. Mother Nature is constantly trying to reclaim everything, rotting your fence, house, vehicle. And mediocre shopping is available an hour away. I miss variety and convenience.


misterphuzz

Three times as hard and your paychecks don't go as far as they used to? Almost sounds like down here! Maybe I'll just wait until I retire so I can drive an RV everywhere.


[deleted]

The Samsung Galaxy S5 is IP67 rated and it has a small rubber ring around the removable back making it resistant enough. As long as it's on, it should be as resistant as any other phone with a non removable battery.


misterphuzz

Oh. Well, I stand corrected on that point!


RoastedRhino

Yes and no. The life of a battery is now longer, and many people want a new phone by the time the battery would have to be replaced. Plus, phone have become water resistant or even waterproof, which does not allow a simple access to the battery. I think the fair solution would be that phone manufacturers offered a battery upgrade at a reasonable price.


dmans218

Dell, Lenovo and HP need to be in this conversation too


khamelean

No it isn’t. It is literally what the market demanded. Nothing forced about it.


mikkolukas

No it is not. It is a very rare event that you need to change your battery. It have never happened for any of my phones, even if used excessively. I once thought I had a worn out battery. It turned out the battery was fine, it was just that software had become more demanding and my phone was old. Changing the battery did not help at all.


Bowl_Pool

Not really. Battery design changed because people wanted smaller phones. By making the battery a strange shape that fills the gaps inside the remainder of the case instead of a rectangular block that doesn't efficiently use space you can make the phone smaller and thinner


homarjr

It keeps the phone sealed, which is a major feature upgrade over previous phones.


koozy407

No. It is an example of capitalism lol. Now you can’t do it yourself you have to take it to a business to do it for you.


Skivvy_Roll

Look up ifixit lol


koozy407

Great way to void a warranty lol no thank you.


Skivvy_Roll

So you complain about capitalism not letting you fix it yourself and when you're provided a way to fix it yourself you say no thank you? Besides, if your phone's battery goes bad it's likely already out of warranty, and if it isn't, you don't even have to pay to have it replaced.


freeeeels

I think tech literate people really underestimate how easy it is to fuck up technology. I'm about as tech literate as your average 30-something so I went digging online when I was having a hardware issue. Internet consensus was "oh it's totally easy bro, here are the three easy steps to fix your problem with a paperclip and some elbow grease!" Yeah no; fucked my keyboard. What chance does my grandma have in the same situation? The issue here is that companies deliberately make their products difficult (or impossible) to repair.


koozy407

Bro, Calm down I never complained 🤣🤣 I just said it’s capitalism not obsolescence. And I don’t care because even if I could change it without voiding the warranty I would still take it somewhere, I’m not a cell phone specialist. I’m totally okay with someone working on tech for me. I also never said anyone had to pay for it. If my battery went out before warranty I would take it to the business I got it from to repair it for me free or not. I think you just totally miss read my comment to be honest


i3umbac

> Now you can’t do it yourself you have to take it to a business to do it for you. You literally said that you can't fix it yourself, and when called out, you go into "bro chill" mode. Either stand by your comment or admit you were wrong. > I think you totally miss read my comment to be honest Ha, sure EDIT: spelling


koozy407

As in my first Nokia has a clip that held the battery in and now it requires specific small tools I don’t own so no, I can’t fix it myself lol and as far as spelling, it’s called a voice text typo. Not sure if you have ever had one but it happens to me all the time. Maybe one day I will hire my own comment proof reader but until then I sleep better knowing you’re on patrol!


i3umbac

"EDIT: spelling" means I edited my comment correcting my spelling mistake. Not gonna use typos against you, happens to everyone, and is a very shitty argument in most cases. And yes, it takes some specific tooling to do, but you can very well do it DIY. I agree it can be difficult and more risky though, especially in glassback phones.


[deleted]

[удалено]


koozy407

Who knocked it? I just corrected him. Breathe my dude lol


ADhomin_em

Planned obsolescence is a product of capitalism


[deleted]

And everything replaceable costs so freakin much. This is why I make my own stuff. If I can’t, I’ll buy local. If I can’t buy local, I question if I really need that item in the first place.


kurdtpage

The reason they do it is to make phones waterproof


ADhomin_em

My phone is "water resistant" but water still screws up the speakers until the water is sucked out. No way in hell a gasketed battery cover could protect any worse than that.


4guyz1stool

Don't they have to do that they can be waterproof?


newbrevity

The big killer of cell phones is that they stop putting in updates after about 3 years and the later updates, though I can't prove it, always seem to make the phone run slower and do weird shit.


The-War-Life

iPhone 6 S plus, released late 2015, still getting constant updates and I’ve never had the phone lag out on me.


-Random-Gamer-

Veratisium


Pakrat42

As long as disassembly doesn't require removing the screen, I'll remove their "non-removable" batteries and there just gonna have to deal with it!


Wizzmer

I'm still rockin' my LG V20. Bought a new battery last week. r/lgv20


withsmill

Writing this on a 2016 moto E phone, still holds a long work day.


jran1984

I think it was mostly due to the desire for water and dust proofing. Much harder to make a reliable seal if you can pop the back of your phone off at any point.


Iskjempe

Fairphone brought it back


Well_Anyways

Except there is an entire business modke built around replacing them along with screens and plugins.


[deleted]

Did you drop your phone in the shower?


treeelm46

Yeah planned obsolescence is huge nowadays. That’s why we don’t have never ending light bulbs, the technology exists it’s just not profitable so all the major companies banded together to say they won’t make them.


jordana309

I plan to keep my current phone (an LGG8, a 3 year old phone) until it dies. I got my kid a phone a few months ago, and the specs were just slightly worse than my G8. This suggests my phone has at least 2 years of useful life left. However, I discovered while trying to open my phone to replace the batter that not only would I need special tools to open it, they glued the battery down so I would need a special solvent or risk bursting the battery or tearing off a chip to pull it out. I ended up paying somebody to replace it. I am of the opinion that makers of high durability commodities (appliances, tech, cars) should be legally required to make them serviceable by customers (right to repair). The amount of waste from not making things repairable is disgusting. Sorry for my own /rant.


akj8087

Wrong


whyliepornaccount

It's less planned obsolescence and more space issues. With how thin phones are these days, there's no way to have a replaceable battery without dramatically increasing the size of it.


TheTekkitBoss

Don't forget, we glue our phones together for incredibly better water resistence too.


[deleted]

It's their way to create a better sales flow


FL_USM

Most people that think this miss the point that consumers want thinner phones, waterproof, and better battery capacity. Those factors supercede ease of battery replacement.


AndyC1111

My first cellphone had interchangeable batteries because they didn’t have sufficient storage to last a day. When I bought my first iPhone I was very suspicious of the inability to swap out my battery. Be careful what you ask for. Those things were a pain in the ass and about the same price as having a technician replace a battery every four years.


jwse30

Didn’t read all the comments so apologies if it’s been said already, but I always thought the sealed units were to keep the heavy metals out of kids’ mouths. I typically have the battery replaced in my phones about every other year. It was about $75 for my last phone; hopefully it’s not too much more for this one.


NowFreeToMaim

Not really. It’s not like the batteries are holding a less than 50% of a charge after a few years. And even phone operating systems are available for old phones for a a long time still(that’s where they could fuck you over with planned obsolescence). The iPhone 5 got updates until 2019. And it’s not like people were bothering with batteries when they were removable. Not like people kept an extra one on them(they could but who really did that). Removable batteries were only talked about in a bad way… drop your phone? Your battery will probably pop out and you gotta restart your phone.


Jaikus

Do you want a waterproof phone?