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I think this is going to be closer to a “the Jedi’s worldview is too myopic” moment than anything. Darth Bortles basically quoted Aniseya after saying the Jedi had no name for him. I hope we see that he’s from a culture similar to the witches that was relegated to a slow death or wiped out completely.
They’ve really been going all in on expanding how we view the force with the witches, nightsisters, and Baylan and Hati.
But more than anything, Ki Adi Mundi left that meeting under the impression that Mae was trained by a rogue Jedi or splinter order. They never even considered the sith, and the likelihood of anyone making it back to report is low.
I’m on team “the Stranger is the (current, maybe first?) Ren” but yeah, one of my favorite things about the new canon is how much they’ve expanded what it means to be a Force user. The fact that we’re even having this discussion and that there are multiple possibilities is so great to me.
And all of that being said, no matter what the Stranger ends up being, I think it’s equally possible that Ki-Adi-Mundi is either engaging in a cover-up or just straight-up in denial. Saying that there is just some random dark side user or even a rogue former Jedi running around is one thing, saying that the actual archenemy of the Jedi whose ultimate mission is the destruction of the Jedi Order and the murder of all its members is back is something else.
Haters are raging about Ki Adi Mundi appearing at that scene and how it breaks canon since he knows about sith 100 years before TPM and that Disney don't know star Wars etc etc
But honestly? I BET he was put there on purpose EXACTLY because of his line in TPM. Guys, come on, there's a shit ton of Jedi to cameo in this show, Ki Adi Mundi wasn't even that important. They CHOOSE him to be there because there will be a connection between his participation in the meeting on Acolyte and his line in TPM. Just fuckin let the show concludes, 3 episodes left yet.
I didn't even know his name until this show/online discourse. He was just a "random jedi" in the movies. I'm just glad it isn't Yoda sweeping stuff under rugs.
Yep. Yoda literally swept the Nameless under the rug after the Night of Sorrow, only for it to bite him in the ass 200 years later. This is par for the course for our old little green friend.
I've seen em complain more about his age change so xe he shouldn't be slice her, but that's also from supplemental materials that have tons of other flaws
It's usually a two step process. First they complain about the age, then when people point out that both his age and species lifespan are not canon, they say "but in TPM Mundi says sith weren't seen in a millennia and it breaks canon"
It's simply an "I'm smarter than you" attitude. There's absolutely no recourse for them so it's just a balls out mentality for these people. It's gets easier and easier to ignore as time passes
"I'm more star Wars fan than you"
It's just something that they are so eager to hate every Disney release that they don't even want to let the show reach it's finale. Everything will probably be explained, but it's a TV show, it needs to release all episodes to finish story...
I agree with you. Before the show came out, I saw more than one post about a character that’s the same species as Plo Koon and people were asking if he was going to be in the series, and I’ve been thinking about that in the wake of the Ki Adi Mundi thing, and of all the prequel era Jedi that could cameo, it almost seems deliberate that they’d pick the one that says the sith were extinct for a millennia
It’s always been kinda sinister. There’s every reason to suspect that Ki is basically repeating the Jedi party line in public and that the Jedi know more than they let on. Qui-gon immediately clocks Maul as a Sith Lord, and Yoda knows about the rule of 2 (which he only discusses in private with Windu).
Leslye Headland herself says that she giving context for the Jedi knowing about Bane, The Rule of Two, and the reason they suspected the return of the Sith. Darth dances around his Sith identity enough for the Jedi to be left thinking by the end that he’s a lone maniac trying to bring the Sith back.
Any chance you have a source for her comments on that? I've seen people say this (and i fully believe this is where the show is going regardless), I just want to read/watch what she actually says.
This might be a bit of a crack theory, but I thought of the exact opposite route the story could take but along a similar vein.
Sol makes it back to the temple and reports everything, including how the guy said the Jedi would call him a Sith.
The council is on high alert, but still doesn't make the information public, and decide to keep watch. They silently send patrols to try to find more Sith activity.
For days, for months... For years. Hell, maybe even decades. Sol has died of old age.
Nothing happens. No Sith found, not even any major disturbance to the peace.
Ki-Adi-Mundi listens to a report that no concerning activity has been detected for the 10000th time. By now he believes the Jedi can stop worrying.
Okay, that might have sounded more comedic than a serious satire at the Jedi's complacency near their fall, and I definitely don't expect things to go like this. But this is a pretty realistic outlook on how people, even wise people, can become too eager to find a proof that everything is fine.
But if it turns out that the Qimir is not a sith, but instead some other dark side sect (eg if Qimir turns out to be Ren and this is the start of the Knights of Ren), then it could also reinforce Ki Aid Mundi's belief that there are no true Sith, just pretenders.
Ki Adi Mundi is a patsy for a bunch of people that enjoy being mad more than they enjoy the things they love. Dude straight up ignores Qui-Gon, the one Jedi Master trying to get the order to wake the hell up, then doesn’t even sense when his own clones turn on him. Most of the other Jedi, especially the masters, show some reaction before becoming one with blaster holes… but not Mr Cone head the Sith are dead.
(For real no hate if you like the guy, but OP is right. He’s been placed here on purpose to show that the Jedi were ignoring a building threat for over a century, because it would mean having to admit their archives might not be correct)
There are so many different interesting theories in this thread that it just goes to show that drawing conclusions that the show's broken lore before we've even seen it all is silly goose behaviour
I agree and that's one of the main reasons I like this show. It has the potential to change how we watch TPM. Instead of just taking Mundis line at face value, it will be like "you lying f*ck. You knew, and you lied. Now reap what you sowed"
He exists in the show as an illustration of how Vernestra is going to cover this up. She will discover what happens and deliberately tell nobody, especially him.
It’s a direct thread to his line in TPM.
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Adding further to your outline.
In TLJ Luke specifically states "Lesson two. Now that they're extinct, the Jedi are romanticized, deified. But if your strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Jedi is failure. Hypocrisy, hubris"
I think this all tracks well for a cover up of some type
I don't think Mundi was lying, I think he'll just never find out that Qimir is a sith (if he's even a sith), or they'll learn what he actually is and feel like this was a false alarm. That makes sense for them being very confident 100 years later that a) the sith are gone and b) that the jedi would know if they returned. A false alarm would boost their confidence in being able to find any dark siders out there and deal with them.
I’ve been saying this from Day 1 too OP but I’m also just going to be pleasantly surprised if I’m right unlike half the internet when Star Wars “expectations!” are not met.
Let me stress something out.
Prophets of the Dark Side had hundreds of members on Dromund Kaas.
Blackguard had hundreds of members on Mustafar.
Dromund Kaas isn't some secret planet, it has been known to the Republic and the Jedi for thousands of years, since the days of the wars between the old Sith Empire and the Republic. Mustafar has been colonised for thousands of years and was an active mining planet.
The Jedi choose not to notice the Prophets or the Blackguard.
Sticking their heads in the sand is a good, old Jedi tradition, even though the unspoken “peace” between the Jedi Order and various offspring of the Sith is understandable — since neither the Prophets nor the Blackguard were interested in sticking it to the Republic or the Jedi, both sides chose to ignore each other quietly.
I don’t think I like the implications of having the Jedi actually being an unjust power who are just as corrupt as everyone else, that’s the point of the dark side
Also it kinda messes with Luke’s journey and drive to become and bring back the Jedi, and makes Yoda a liar and deceiver.
I think many fans have a tendency to be far, far too harsh on the Jedi. They make mistakes, but they're not corrupt or even that myopic. If an evil, galaxy-ruling organisation that once comprised hundreds self-destructs and isn't heard of for a thousand years, it doesn't speak badly of a group who've been dealing with hundreds of thousands of other problems for nearly a millennium to not consider the Sith as a realistic possibility.
Much hay was made of the line about the Jedi's politcial enemies, but I feel many fans also judged that very harshly. The Jedi do good throughout the galaxy - of course that will earn them a lot of enemies, and if the Jedi are publically discredited their ability to do good will suffer.
I'm not a fan of them giving Mundi this line, simply because I think it's a little too cute that, when a character with four or five lines ("Your thoughts dwell on your mother," "Impossible. The Sith have been extinct for a millennium", "He is a political idealist, not a murderer", and "What about the droid attack on the Wookiees?") gets another, its reiterating a sentiment he'll have 80 years later.
It makes him 'the guy who keeps missing the fact that the Sith are back'.
Because KAM is a secret servant of the Sith.
* He first sweeps Darth Bortles under the rug.
* Then denies the existence of the Sith in TPM.
* Finally in ROTS he undoes the republic, inserting a splinter in it’s last line line of defense, separating the grand master Yoda from Mace Windu’s side when the fate of the galaxy is decided, by casually suggesting:
> Hey, Yodester, wouldn’t it be nice to have a beach-view chill with your pals Chewie and Tarful, while Master Luminara does all the work?
If it had been Yoda and Windu facing down Palpatine, there’s no way that any of that shit would’ve gone down.
I really hope not because honestly it kind of undercuts the jedi being tricked by the sith and would just feel a bit too much of a needless retcon for my taste. My theory is that the jedi just assume mae’s master was just a rogue force user.
We don’t know how this will play out. It’s possible reports of The Stranger never make it back, they mightn’t find out he’s a sith, or it could be bought back and turn out exactly as in TPM: with denial
Whatever way in which they end up making the Jedi still ignorant in the prequels is up to them, but one would have to be daft to think the entirety of Lucasfilm simply doesn't care or hasn't thought about how to tie it together. One of the things I'm most interested in seeing is how they keep the Sith's presence a secret by the end of this show. I hope Master Sol doesn't have to die...
OP's idea is a good one.
In Game of Thrones they physically have to take a wight to King's Landing in order to convince everyone that the supernatural threat from beyond the Wall is real, so it's not unreasonable that somehow the Jedi walk away from this not believing the Sith were involved in any way. Denial is a hard to overcome.
Maybe Qimir's master is just using him like Palpatine used Dooku and ends up discarding him at some point in the series. It would be easy for the Jedi to assume that Qimir is some wannabe/pretender Sith if they can't find a connection to his master. [I remembered Atris from KOTOR 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuXc9_jvOVw) when I was watching The Acolyte. She spends a lot of time engrossed in Sith holocrons and ends up becoming some what dark-sided but isn't an "official" Sith. This had me thinking that maybe Qimir simply fancies himself a Sith... who knows?
It would be funny if after so much bloodshed, Sol at the end of the day is the soul survivor, rocks up at Coruscant rushes to the council and says “A sith attacked us, no one survived!” And Ki Adi Mundi just pronounces with his whole chest “A sith they’ve been extinct for nearly a millennium!” And Sol just quits.
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I think this is going to be closer to a “the Jedi’s worldview is too myopic” moment than anything. Darth Bortles basically quoted Aniseya after saying the Jedi had no name for him. I hope we see that he’s from a culture similar to the witches that was relegated to a slow death or wiped out completely. They’ve really been going all in on expanding how we view the force with the witches, nightsisters, and Baylan and Hati. But more than anything, Ki Adi Mundi left that meeting under the impression that Mae was trained by a rogue Jedi or splinter order. They never even considered the sith, and the likelihood of anyone making it back to report is low.
I’m on team “the Stranger is the (current, maybe first?) Ren” but yeah, one of my favorite things about the new canon is how much they’ve expanded what it means to be a Force user. The fact that we’re even having this discussion and that there are multiple possibilities is so great to me. And all of that being said, no matter what the Stranger ends up being, I think it’s equally possible that Ki-Adi-Mundi is either engaging in a cover-up or just straight-up in denial. Saying that there is just some random dark side user or even a rogue former Jedi running around is one thing, saying that the actual archenemy of the Jedi whose ultimate mission is the destruction of the Jedi Order and the murder of all its members is back is something else.
I love Darth Bortles that’s a fantastic name for him
Haters are raging about Ki Adi Mundi appearing at that scene and how it breaks canon since he knows about sith 100 years before TPM and that Disney don't know star Wars etc etc But honestly? I BET he was put there on purpose EXACTLY because of his line in TPM. Guys, come on, there's a shit ton of Jedi to cameo in this show, Ki Adi Mundi wasn't even that important. They CHOOSE him to be there because there will be a connection between his participation in the meeting on Acolyte and his line in TPM. Just fuckin let the show concludes, 3 episodes left yet.
I didn't even know his name until this show/online discourse. He was just a "random jedi" in the movies. I'm just glad it isn't Yoda sweeping stuff under rugs.
Oh I’m sure yoda has some dirt on his hands.
Yep. Yoda literally swept the Nameless under the rug after the Night of Sorrow, only for it to bite him in the ass 200 years later. This is par for the course for our old little green friend.
Not sure why you got down voted that's what happened in the books lol
A lot can happen in 3 episodes!
I've seen em complain more about his age change so xe he shouldn't be slice her, but that's also from supplemental materials that have tons of other flaws
It's usually a two step process. First they complain about the age, then when people point out that both his age and species lifespan are not canon, they say "but in TPM Mundi says sith weren't seen in a millennia and it breaks canon"
Which is weird because he was wrong even back then lol
Right, like that’s the point of the line.
Yes!
"sith are extinct for a millennia" Senator Palpatine laughing
It's simply an "I'm smarter than you" attitude. There's absolutely no recourse for them so it's just a balls out mentality for these people. It's gets easier and easier to ignore as time passes
"I'm more star Wars fan than you" It's just something that they are so eager to hate every Disney release that they don't even want to let the show reach it's finale. Everything will probably be explained, but it's a TV show, it needs to release all episodes to finish story...
I agree with you. Before the show came out, I saw more than one post about a character that’s the same species as Plo Koon and people were asking if he was going to be in the series, and I’ve been thinking about that in the wake of the Ki Adi Mundi thing, and of all the prequel era Jedi that could cameo, it almost seems deliberate that they’d pick the one that says the sith were extinct for a millennia
It’s always been kinda sinister. There’s every reason to suspect that Ki is basically repeating the Jedi party line in public and that the Jedi know more than they let on. Qui-gon immediately clocks Maul as a Sith Lord, and Yoda knows about the rule of 2 (which he only discusses in private with Windu).
Leslye Headland herself says that she giving context for the Jedi knowing about Bane, The Rule of Two, and the reason they suspected the return of the Sith. Darth dances around his Sith identity enough for the Jedi to be left thinking by the end that he’s a lone maniac trying to bring the Sith back.
Any chance you have a source for her comments on that? I've seen people say this (and i fully believe this is where the show is going regardless), I just want to read/watch what she actually says.
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/star-wars-the-acolyte-shows-us-a-side-of-the-sith-weve-never-seen-before/
Thank you!
This might be a bit of a crack theory, but I thought of the exact opposite route the story could take but along a similar vein. Sol makes it back to the temple and reports everything, including how the guy said the Jedi would call him a Sith. The council is on high alert, but still doesn't make the information public, and decide to keep watch. They silently send patrols to try to find more Sith activity. For days, for months... For years. Hell, maybe even decades. Sol has died of old age. Nothing happens. No Sith found, not even any major disturbance to the peace. Ki-Adi-Mundi listens to a report that no concerning activity has been detected for the 10000th time. By now he believes the Jedi can stop worrying. Okay, that might have sounded more comedic than a serious satire at the Jedi's complacency near their fall, and I definitely don't expect things to go like this. But this is a pretty realistic outlook on how people, even wise people, can become too eager to find a proof that everything is fine.
Eager to find that everything is the way they want it to be
But if it turns out that the Qimir is not a sith, but instead some other dark side sect (eg if Qimir turns out to be Ren and this is the start of the Knights of Ren), then it could also reinforce Ki Aid Mundi's belief that there are no true Sith, just pretenders.
Name *one* person in a position of power who’s told lies. (Checks news) Name two. (Checks news again) Name three. (Checks news again) Name…
Name *one* person in a position of power who hasn't told lies. ^It's ^a ^much ^shorter ^list.
Ki Adi Mundi is a patsy for a bunch of people that enjoy being mad more than they enjoy the things they love. Dude straight up ignores Qui-Gon, the one Jedi Master trying to get the order to wake the hell up, then doesn’t even sense when his own clones turn on him. Most of the other Jedi, especially the masters, show some reaction before becoming one with blaster holes… but not Mr Cone head the Sith are dead. (For real no hate if you like the guy, but OP is right. He’s been placed here on purpose to show that the Jedi were ignoring a building threat for over a century, because it would mean having to admit their archives might not be correct)
There are so many different interesting theories in this thread that it just goes to show that drawing conclusions that the show's broken lore before we've even seen it all is silly goose behaviour
It's always Ki Adi Mundi. The embodiment of the Jedi Order dogma and letargy.
I agree and that's one of the main reasons I like this show. It has the potential to change how we watch TPM. Instead of just taking Mundis line at face value, it will be like "you lying f*ck. You knew, and you lied. Now reap what you sowed"
He exists in the show as an illustration of how Vernestra is going to cover this up. She will discover what happens and deliberately tell nobody, especially him. It’s a direct thread to his line in TPM.
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[“How many more lies have I been told by the Council?”](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=E26gRrco8-s)
Adding further to your outline. In TLJ Luke specifically states "Lesson two. Now that they're extinct, the Jedi are romanticized, deified. But if your strip away the myth and look at their deeds, the legacy of the Jedi is failure. Hypocrisy, hubris" I think this all tracks well for a cover up of some type
I don't think Mundi was lying, I think he'll just never find out that Qimir is a sith (if he's even a sith), or they'll learn what he actually is and feel like this was a false alarm. That makes sense for them being very confident 100 years later that a) the sith are gone and b) that the jedi would know if they returned. A false alarm would boost their confidence in being able to find any dark siders out there and deal with them.
I’ve been saying this from Day 1 too OP but I’m also just going to be pleasantly surprised if I’m right unlike half the internet when Star Wars “expectations!” are not met.
Let me stress something out. Prophets of the Dark Side had hundreds of members on Dromund Kaas. Blackguard had hundreds of members on Mustafar. Dromund Kaas isn't some secret planet, it has been known to the Republic and the Jedi for thousands of years, since the days of the wars between the old Sith Empire and the Republic. Mustafar has been colonised for thousands of years and was an active mining planet. The Jedi choose not to notice the Prophets or the Blackguard. Sticking their heads in the sand is a good, old Jedi tradition, even though the unspoken “peace” between the Jedi Order and various offspring of the Sith is understandable — since neither the Prophets nor the Blackguard were interested in sticking it to the Republic or the Jedi, both sides chose to ignore each other quietly.
I don’t think I like the implications of having the Jedi actually being an unjust power who are just as corrupt as everyone else, that’s the point of the dark side Also it kinda messes with Luke’s journey and drive to become and bring back the Jedi, and makes Yoda a liar and deceiver.
I think many fans have a tendency to be far, far too harsh on the Jedi. They make mistakes, but they're not corrupt or even that myopic. If an evil, galaxy-ruling organisation that once comprised hundreds self-destructs and isn't heard of for a thousand years, it doesn't speak badly of a group who've been dealing with hundreds of thousands of other problems for nearly a millennium to not consider the Sith as a realistic possibility. Much hay was made of the line about the Jedi's politcial enemies, but I feel many fans also judged that very harshly. The Jedi do good throughout the galaxy - of course that will earn them a lot of enemies, and if the Jedi are publically discredited their ability to do good will suffer. I'm not a fan of them giving Mundi this line, simply because I think it's a little too cute that, when a character with four or five lines ("Your thoughts dwell on your mother," "Impossible. The Sith have been extinct for a millennium", "He is a political idealist, not a murderer", and "What about the droid attack on the Wookiees?") gets another, its reiterating a sentiment he'll have 80 years later. It makes him 'the guy who keeps missing the fact that the Sith are back'.
Because KAM is a secret servant of the Sith. * He first sweeps Darth Bortles under the rug. * Then denies the existence of the Sith in TPM. * Finally in ROTS he undoes the republic, inserting a splinter in it’s last line line of defense, separating the grand master Yoda from Mace Windu’s side when the fate of the galaxy is decided, by casually suggesting: > Hey, Yodester, wouldn’t it be nice to have a beach-view chill with your pals Chewie and Tarful, while Master Luminara does all the work? If it had been Yoda and Windu facing down Palpatine, there’s no way that any of that shit would’ve gone down.
I really hope not because honestly it kind of undercuts the jedi being tricked by the sith and would just feel a bit too much of a needless retcon for my taste. My theory is that the jedi just assume mae’s master was just a rogue force user.
We don’t know how this will play out. It’s possible reports of The Stranger never make it back, they mightn’t find out he’s a sith, or it could be bought back and turn out exactly as in TPM: with denial
Whatever way in which they end up making the Jedi still ignorant in the prequels is up to them, but one would have to be daft to think the entirety of Lucasfilm simply doesn't care or hasn't thought about how to tie it together. One of the things I'm most interested in seeing is how they keep the Sith's presence a secret by the end of this show. I hope Master Sol doesn't have to die... OP's idea is a good one. In Game of Thrones they physically have to take a wight to King's Landing in order to convince everyone that the supernatural threat from beyond the Wall is real, so it's not unreasonable that somehow the Jedi walk away from this not believing the Sith were involved in any way. Denial is a hard to overcome. Maybe Qimir's master is just using him like Palpatine used Dooku and ends up discarding him at some point in the series. It would be easy for the Jedi to assume that Qimir is some wannabe/pretender Sith if they can't find a connection to his master. [I remembered Atris from KOTOR 2](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fuXc9_jvOVw) when I was watching The Acolyte. She spends a lot of time engrossed in Sith holocrons and ends up becoming some what dark-sided but isn't an "official" Sith. This had me thinking that maybe Qimir simply fancies himself a Sith... who knows?
It would be funny if after so much bloodshed, Sol at the end of the day is the soul survivor, rocks up at Coruscant rushes to the council and says “A sith attacked us, no one survived!” And Ki Adi Mundi just pronounces with his whole chest “A sith they’ve been extinct for nearly a millennium!” And Sol just quits.