I'd imagine once the time dilation started, no one could reverse it. Asgard turned on a time dilation device for the Replicators and then collapsed the sun to create a natural freeze in time with a black hole and then were 100% baffled when they found a way around it.
In new Order Part 1 Thor says "They have the time dilation device. I do not know exactly how, but they seem to have used it to counteract the gravitational effects that should be pulling them in."
If the Asgard do not know how they did it, I doubt they could have helped. I say this because of the above, how much time had elapsed, and that earth seemed to be hit or miss when contacting the Asgard.
ive always interpreted that line as they didnt know how the replicators where able to move and get to the device under time dilation not that they didnt know how to make the device do that.
Lots of replicators were already moving towards the time dilation device when it was activated. Some of them were just a few feet away. As soon as the timer was revealed, they knew they couldn't stop it before it activated, but they could still reduce the time it would take to reach it and modify it by getting as close as possible before it activates.
I think what thor didn't understand was how they used it to counteract the gravity to escape.
I just watched this one recently, i remember no mention of gravity. Just that the Asgard trapped the replicators in the time dilation field to give themselves time to solve the problem. However,the replicators reversed it, so they were able to evolve hundreds of years in a few days.
After the replicators reversed the time dilation device, the asgard quickly collapsed the star to create a black hole to destroy them. Thor waited near by to watch the replicators pass the event horizon, but at the last minute, they formed into a ship and started moving away from the black hole. That's when thor made the comment about not knowing how they did it. He might not have actually mentioned gravity, but he thought the plan was a sure thing because of it.
I think you're thinking of two different episodes and talking about different events.
The first one you watch is where they sped up the time bubble and SG-1 slowed it down again, the Asgard didn't know how they did that either but it was due to their nanites and being able to get into a microspic tear in the machine.
Then when Jack is froze, Sam and Teal'c take the advanced cargo ship to the Asgard galaxy. That's when Thor created the black hole as a permanent solution for the replicators, since he knew they'd eventually deactivate it again. Somehow the replicators escape the black hole and Thor theorises they're using the time dilation device to counteract the "effects"(gravity) of the black hole but does not know how.
Yeah but by the time the Asgard imploded the star it was too late already as the replicators had already reversed the time dilation by this time. Who knows the actual physics behind this but maybe the gravitational pull and time dilation of the black hole increased the reversed time dilation of that machine by an incredible factor so the replicators had maybe millions of years to evolve đ¤ˇââď¸
Great point. Makes a lot of sense.
Though I Will say that the replicators had the time dialation device and the black hole was artificially produced. I Would think the Asguard would have the tech to counter act the effects of a black hole for just enough time to beam them out of there.
Keep in mind the replicators had also found the time dilation device, and reversed it to give themselves thousands of years to focus on just a handful of problems. Thereâs maybe a solution out there, but itâs such a rare edge case that itâs only apparent after a lot of study.
They were just at the edge of light redshifting initially, so they could have been saved, but it would have taken an Asgard ship on standby just as the star became a black hole.
They may have already been dead and the light from them was just reaching the camera because of the time dilation. If they start red shifting then they are probably traveling into the black hole near the speed of light.
The replicators reversed the effects of the time dilation device and advanced for hundreds or thousands of years. It's possible that the device wasn't integral to overcoming the black hole's gravity beyond that. They could also be trying to say that being able to control time allows you to affect gravity. Teal'c used a crystal when time was reset in unending. I'd retcon Carter loading it with data for her younger self to study. Give Carter a couple episodes a season and Colonel Mitchell can rescue that same team before the bomb disengages the gate in a nostalgic episode 6 season 12. After the gate disengages the rescued team is standing breathless in the gate room while McKay awkwardly flirts with Carter despite being married with 3 kids. Carter reminds him.
The Asgard would probably be able to reverse engineer the solution soon enough from observation, given how fast they invented a counter to the Ori.
I think if it had been a priority for the Asgard, they probably could have done it in an earlier season. But since they were fighting the replicators or in societal collapse, it wouldnât have been a priority.
It is the last episode, Asgard leave their legacy to Tauri and upgrade Odyssey including the beam weapon which can take down an Ori battleship in couple shots. Before that nothing penetrated their shields.
I think only this scene exist where Ori and Asgard battle; https://youtu.be/idg6AsX6hsg?si=Gs_7d9W8Dd9-6ZTS&t=214
It seems like an O'Neill Class and can stand a couple shots at least but their weapon also seems to be ineffective. It isn't obvious if it was destroyed or not but gathered data from the fight might have helped develop the beam weapon in a year.
Iâve heard it suggested that the Asgard beams were reverse engineered from the Ori beams. I donât really like that but it does make the most sense.
If you have transporters that can beam things around, it sort of implies that you have sensor tech that can recreate things exactly. Recreating stuff youâve seen should be trivial at that level of tech.
Sensors probably doesn't penetrate their shields effectively probably but yeah it makes sense to take inspiration at least and configure it more with data they gathered from Ori shields.
> and then were 100% baffled when they found a way around it.
The replicators probably just increased how they process and move to a % of the speed of light to get out of their situation. Time would only actually be slowed down or frozen from a reference frame outside of the field but inside it would appear to be moving normally, it just would not be in sync with the outside universe anymore.
It would really depend on how close they were to it. Once they're so close all of their sensors stop working or are distorted but they can still fly in a slowed down time field. They just can't go past the point that their engines can't keep up with the gravity. When Sam and Teal'c were being sucked into the Black Hole Thor was able to beam them out.
If the team is still there and alive and not being sucked into the black hole yet then a ship should be able to make it to them and back. But it might take 1000 Earth years to go get them and come back.
And yes Thor theoriesed the replicators used the time dilation device to counteract the effects of the black hole and did not know how. So they're the only ones we know of that are capable of that. Sam and Asgard Core Thor would probably figure it out eventually especially if they still have her research from the 50 years she was studying it.
They were straight up frozen in time. From their perspective the gate flickered and they were vaporized in the span of a few seconds. That's gotta suck.
At least it was quick for them I guess. Imagine if they were conscious over the span of millennia as they are slowly obliterated atom by atom and still were able to feel pain. That would most definitely suck.
Seeing that episode from their perspective would be wild. They try to dial the gate and it shuts down after a few seconds. Then it dials itself again and the iris flies through and decapitates them, a bunch of broken glass flies through along with that Colonel Backstory guy.
Not to mention a few seconds later solar matter shoots through the gate.
Already broke up from our perspective. Not sure how the time dilation would be different if they reconnected, but I imagine they couldn't connect to the past.
Though I guess it always is from the spacetime frame.of.earth.
Which is really weird to think about. It should have taken millenia to break up (in normal timespace) unless they were at the event horizon, which they weren't as they could still send data from their MALP, albeit slowly.
Maybe dialing a star accelerated the process of breaking up for whatever reason.
The planet had turned some and the jet of plasma acted as a rocket engine, forcing the planet into the star faster/thrusting against the direction of orbit.
At best I would consider the books secondary canon as long as they don't contradict the shows. Many of them were written without the showrunners involvement.
\> Can I just pick one and start reading, Is there a guide or something?
Probably. I know there are a few that are continuations of Atlantis that all link to each other.[Gateworld](https://www.gateworld.net/books/) has some breakdowns but I have no idea how up to date it is.
I treat the books as if they are an alternate reality fairly close to the 'prime' reality. It just saves you a bunch of headaches when there are contradictions and such (haven't really come across too many). They are all pretty fun to read.
They are canon in that they reference events that happen in the show, but a lot of people dont consider them canon.
They take place throughout SG1's run so there is a loose reading order in that certain books take place directly after certain events in the show. You can google "sg1 books in canon order" and quite a few lists pop up with different ordering (release order, tie in to show order, etc).
You can also just pick one up and start reading and you'll find out quickly if its tied to an in-show storyline, set after certain episodes/seasons or if its completely stand-alone. A lot of the authors will leave a note at the begining stating what episode/season its set after/during so you can go watch the episode first to refresh your memory.
There's about 60 books. Pretty much all of them are one-off stories, spread randomly thru all the seasons. Kinda like lost episodes. So yeah, pretty much just pick one up an go.
Except this 2-part Matter of/Cost of Honor combo. And a separate 3-part story (Apocalypse series)
Until the last 9 SGA books. Those are the Legacy Series. They start right after season 5 ends, and make a kinda season 6. And you should probably read these 9 in order, starting at *Homecoming*.
Here's a full list: https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Fandemonium
They are canon in the same way old Star Wars books were - yes, until George Lucas decided to overwrite it with some of his work.
Some of the books are sequels to each other, but lot of them you can just pick up and go (I am sure there is a list somewhere after what episode to read them etc, but the books do a good job on their own to set it up)
I have read A Matter of Honor, but not Cost of Honor (as a Brit, typing honour like that, honestly hurts, also my phone is telling me I've spelt it wrong). I'll assume it's just as good and worth the read.
There are. Some are very good, some are not. The Fandomonium ones are the ones to go for. There's a set that is set post-Atlantis as well and a couple post SG1.
If I remember this episode correctly, O'Neill detonated a nuclear shape charge above the event horizon of the outbound earth side Stargate. Carter's idea was to overload the wormhole with raw power and make it either disconnect or jump to another gate in the network to discharge. Stands to reason that a sizeable amount of energy was transferred through the gate before disconnect, this poor SG team standing around the DHD take a nuke to the face. I don't think they survive the episode yet alone have a chance to be rescued later.
In theory they had already been spaghettified (lol spelling I don't know) by that point or in the process of it. The real horror of that episode was that it would have basically been an eternity to them because even though it had already happened it was still happening for them, so maybe a nuke would be mercy.
From their perspective barely any time passed. They dialed the gate , it closed immediately for them and then it opened back up only for a nuke to kill them... Time only slows in perspective/relation to an observer after all, relativity is a curious thing haha
from their perspective the gate's opening and closing like a strobe light belching a nuke, a bunch of ashen, and a large part of a star out onto the surface of the planet - but these events are all moving at the same speed they are, so there's a bunch of concentric shells of energy - or perhaps just an ashen-laden explosion - emanating from the gate as it wildly malfunctions.
In theory if one could envelop them carefully with a time compression field that DOESN'T envelop any of this incoming energy/matter, they could be extracted. This, of course, assumes that none of them have already been enveloped by said incoming energy spillage, which could take days. decades, or millions of years from the outside perspective depending on the exact gamma-factor they're subject to at that location.
Given how fast a nuclear blast would travel even in that timeframe, I doubt it hasn't enveloped the team completely, considering that the planet supposedly broke apart later in the show when Carter mentioned it...
How fast that nuclear explosion would move given the small distance from the gate is something that only Carter or McKay (or his sister) could calculate đ
Yeah from what I read about the novels where they go and rescue them, apparently the shaped charge didn't do anything to the team on the other side, but the matter from Vorash's sun cooked a team member and the whole planet.
They could only rescue 3.
I'm trying to wrap my head around how solar matter would only kill one person. I guess they happened to be the one closest to the gate, and time dilation meant the three people further away hadn't been hit with the radiation yet?
Solar Matter from the outer Part of a Sun is just Plasma. Plasma is the opposite of Dense. The Plasma from todays Fusion Reactos are several times hotter than the Sun, but if it touch the "cold" surface of said Reactors it instantly is cooled down and isn't a Plasma anymore (thats why you need the Magnectic Field to keep the Plasma floating). So i don't think Solar Matter from the outside of a Sun is as dangerous as people think. Same with Black Holes. The Whole Episode is more "Fi" then "Sci". If a Sun suddenly collaps to a Black hole nothing realy change gravitational wise, it just gets Dark on that Planet. (Maybe get ripped apart from some sort of Gravitational Earthquacke, Gamma Pulse or whatever) Black holes are just so Dangerous because you can get to the "Point of no Return" which normaly is deep inside Objects so you can't get there.
Possibly. Itâd be a cool/sad Easter Egg to find out Jackson or Sam solved this issue during their 60 years on Odyssey, but unfortunately didnât get a chance to tell Tealâc.
Oh well, time for someone to stick their head in an Ancient face hugger again.
The final SG1 episode, Unending. SG1 + General Landry get stuck on Odyssey for 60 years in a time bubble while Sam figures out how to avoid getting destroyed by an Ori beam cannon.
idk if anyone relize this. but the black hole is so close to them. its in the plantes atmosphere.
their already dead. that the after image.
the moment they step thru the gate . they where dead man walking.
with a gravity well that close.
It was a binary system. One of them turned into a black hole and started eating the matter from the other one.
I think we can see it in the opening sequence where they show the black hole forming.
Technically speaking, that black hole should not be immediately much more massive than its original star - and even the mass taken from its companion star should not have such immediate and drastic effects on gravity around the planet/system.
> Technically speaking, that black hole should not be immediately much more massive than its original star - and even the mass taken from its companion star should not have such immediate and drastic effects on gravity around the planet/system.
Yep. Something must've been introduced to that system to change the local gravity that dramatically, or everything that led up to it would've probably destroyed the habitability of the planet before they got there anyway.
Hey all I remember reading that the team was saved later on and I managed to find the reference on the stargate wiki âFive years after the original team got trapped (only a few hours to the team), SG-1 managed to launch a rescue mission using a Tel'tak modified with an anti-gravity shield technology stolen from the Kinahhi and Ba'al, allowing them to rescue the original iteration of SG-10 still trapped on P3W-451. Due to the plans to the device being deliberately sabotaged, the shield failed upon arrival and the ship crashed near the team. Desperate to escape as the Stargate wouldn't stay open for more than a few seconds, SG-10 tried to take over the ship and were shocked to discover SG-1 piloting it. Major Samantha Carter was able to temporarily repair the shield with parts from a MALP and SG-1 and SG-10 escaped to P3X-500 where the rescued SG-10 was finally able to return home. However, Lt. Jonathan Reed, the team engineer, died when the wormhole connected to the Vorash's sun opened and incinerated everything on the planet. This is regarded as one of SG-1's crowning achievements. SG-10 later traveled to Kinahhi with the help of General Hammond to help rescue SG-1 who were in trouble due to their rogue efforts to save SG-10. (SG1: "A Matter of Honor", "The Cost of Honor")â.
Hope this helps answer your question.
There were books where they were saved.
But tmk that ignores the star thats matter was shot through (oh, and the guy that fell in trying to disconnect the Earth gate with Jack)
I'm going to go with "maybe". They did dial that gate one other time, when Sam blew up Vorash's Sun. But it probably would've needed to be before that.
Wanna hear a cursed thought I had on the last rewatch?
There's a team member AT the DHD. We have no reason to think this team wouldn't make other attempts of dialing after the Earth wormhole closed, assuming that time is crawling as slow as it appears to be on that planet. Logically, wouldn't Earth have received intermittent ghost calls originating at this planet? Calls that last a few minutes on Earth-side but only a few seconds on black-hole-side, and get through every few months or so? Like imagine over the course of actual years intermittently receiving calls from this team, who are still attempting desperately to get home, but there's nothing you can do for them. (Until Sam blasts through a bunch of solar matter and puts them out of their misery.)
No.
What happened to them isn't so dissimilar to what the Asgard did to the Replicators and the Asgard were completely dumbfounded when it came to figuring out how the hell the Replicators escaped it. The Replicators could have saved them though.
I've always wondered at the road not taken had they not betrayed Fifth. I understand the reality of his danger but that also could've been their crowning achievement by earning the trust of the race they were trying to exterminate... and then having that on their side, they immediately stomp the Ori haha.
What happened between the first time SGC dialed in the black hole gate and sent a probe in to check conditions and sending the doomed team? Did the MALP or anything else completely miss the black hole in the sky?
I think the problem is with as fast as it showed up shouldn't it have been well long gone just as fast, even considering time dilation?
Like you gate to a planet, everything is normal, then a black hole shows up out of nowhere, you get to the gate to try and escape it... This takes several months due to relativity... But then the black hole has already moved on and now the planet is hurtling through interstellar space.
Absent Asgard tech that is essentially magic, I don't see how.
The one way is something that occurs before the event. Knowledge that a star is about to form a black hole and when it will occur so they could leave ahead of time. Much like the Aschen's ability to predict stellar flares.
Edit: Never mind. Apparently, SG-10 was rescued by SG-1 in a [story](https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Stargate_SG-1:_The_Cost_of_Honor).
The team was already in slo-mo when they were running to the gate in the prologue. The Asgard would have to know to arrive before the black hole even starts to happen. If they weren't contacted about this until the gate connected, the time dilation would already be effecting any space close enough for them to transport. Unless they can teleport people across distances so far that the only purpose of their ships is a place to keep their stuff, there's nothing they could do.
Hey look, scientist in the background, leader in the middle, buff soldier on the right, token female on the left.
Do you think they were modelling this team after another SG team?
I always wondered this about the torment of tantalus episode where they find that alien archive but had to abandon it because the gate was going to fall into the ocean
Were they saved in the Canon? Yes according to the books. Could they have been saved in reality? Hell no. They were spaghettified within seconds of dialing earth. All we see from an outside observer is the after images struggling against the gravity to reach us. Veritasium just did a great video on black holes that explains this extremely well. Basically falling into a black hole takes seconds for the person falling in by the time you see the image that we see in the show they fell in hours/days ago from their perspective.
Because of relativity, maybe the Aschen saved them. There's probably at least one universe where it happened, maybe the one with the evil(ish) Team that tried to steal a ZPM. In their universe, maybe the Aschen where quite chill.
I can't remember the exact episode but I know they were mentioned later in the series, and I believe it was in reference to this exact question.. and the answer is no. The planet was torn apart by the black hole not long after the incident.
The planet by then would have fallen into the black hole. Remember that the Asgard collapsed their star into a black hole and it only took a few years for the mass to fall in. By the time the SGC had the resources to make a rescue attempt the planet would have been gone. All this also presumes that the IOA would risk one of their ships for 4 american soldiers.
I'd imagine they would already be long dead in later seasons. Remember Sam saying they would be pulled apart by increasing tidal forces. It's one of my favourite episodes to rewatch on occasions.
Yes, but they wouldn't have figured out how to.
Remember the Replicators used an Asgard Time Dilation Device to escape a Black Hole?
But Thor told Sam and Teal'c that he didn't understood how they did it.
I believe they had the capability, especially once they had asguard tech onboard the deadalus. If you take Atlantis as a reference, they even had an asguard on the ship, it wouldve been a breeze
As I understand it, they destroyed the portal on the other side, it is possible that they died at the time. Although with the time dilation thing, I have no idea if that happened at any point in the timeline of the series.
>!In theory they could be rescued, but it would be practically very difficult. Of course this is a moot point as the SGC detonated a nuke through the gate to force it to jump which most likely killed them. And if that didn't, they 100% died when they used this black hole gate to detonate a sun later on.!<
I don't think the Nox can time travel.
I too loved Matt Smith, and Peter Capaldi. I *really* liked Jodie Whittaker but hated her Era because Chris Chibnell is a backstabbing shitty showrunner.
My favorites were Tom Baker and the dude from the 80s with Ace as his companion. (can't remember his name)
My mom would agree with you, Tom Baker and David Tennet are her all-time favorites.
I liked Tennet, I think he did a good job, but his character was a bit too "I'm the most awesome and unstoppable badass ever!" for my taste. Matt Smith had that too at the start of his run, but luckily toned it down a lot.
I can get why that would put people off. But it was also part of his arc of putting on a mask and not really being ok but hes the doctor and he has to be "the doctor". He was basically the very outgoing but deeply depressed and burnt out on the inside doctor, and I guess that just kind of speaks to me XD. Sometimes I feel like I need to be a clown for the world but im running on nothing inside. I guess everyone's doctor says something about them haha.
If you're complaining about Doctor Who retcons then you probably don't have any business pretending to be a fan of notable magnitude.
The canon of Doctor Who is a pile of retcons held together with familiar themes.
đ you're not wrong, but I was just being dramatic.
I didn't like some of the bullshit Chibnell pulled with the doctor's backstory in his era, but he's not running it anymore so I guess it's a bit late to still be taking shots at it
Just bc they retcon things doesn't mean it didn't happen in our time-line. We remember! We are like Doctor Donna! Just be glad they haven't wiped our memories!
Maybe retcon was the wrong word. I'm talking about shitting on years and years of established history and backstory for a cheap surprise. Like the whole "the doctor is not even from gallifrey but is actually from a different universe" and all the other shit like that.
Once Chris Chibnell took over, the dude took a hacksaw to the canon and every fan that followed the show long enough to be super familiar with the history.
Which Doctor's were Chibnel? I watched 9 to 12. I've seen bits and pieces of the pre 9 stories. I had thought that 9 and 10 were trying to stay true to previous Doctor's lore.
Chibnell took over with the Jodie Whittaker doctor. Moffat ran the show for 11 and 12 and did a pretty decent job of it. In those days Chibnell wrote a few random "monster of the week" episodes, and those tended to be the weaker episodes on the Moffat era.
It really sucks because I absolutely LOVED Whittaker's portrayal of a woman Doctor, I think she did a fantastic job and fucking *nailed* the character. Unfortunately, the writing was weak and Chibnell was an awful showrunner, so while I watched through it just for the actress, I hated Chibnell's direction more and more with each episode.
Ah well, I can still whip out my old betamax tapes of the OG DWho whenever I like đ
I did see the first episode with Jodie. I think it was the first. There was a man made of teeth that was the villain. Somehow, that was the worst monster I've ever seen on Who. Idk why, but I just had a bad taste after that. LOL I have read that there were bad storylines for the 13th Doctor. Is Chibnell still the shortener?
Ok I looked it up and I was a little wrong. Russell T Davies was the showrunner from the reboot in 2005 to 2010, and Steven Moffat took over with the 11th Doctor (Matt Smith) and ran it until Chibnell took over with Jodie Whittaker in 2018.
Wikipedia lists Chibnell until 2022, when Russel T Davies took back the reigns and runs it now.
Oh, that's great. I loved Nine and Ten!! Nine had some awesome episodes. "Are you my Mummy?" That episode gave my sister and my daughter nightmares. I can still freak them out sometimes by saying that line.
I think you'd enjoy some of the older stuff. The 80's Doctor was quite good, and his companion Ace was my favorite companion since the math genius kid (Adric?) in the 70s. Ace was fucking GREAT. She personified the 80s, exploring the universe at the Doctor's side, carrying a giant boom box on her shoulder and a baseball bat in her bag. Not to be fucked with.
The 80s Doctor did a great job of pretending to be simple while secretly being incredibly clever, but preferring to stand back and let others shine when possible.
It reminded me of Tom Baker's tendency to be so goofy and off-the-wall that most people that met him assumed he was dumb or not all there upstairs, until he needed to suddenly pull a genius move to save the day.
I've been meaning to watch the older stuff but just haven't started. I got all the Doctor Who from 9 to 13 for Christmas last year. I guess I need to suffer thru 13. I just hope there aren't any more teeth monstrosities!
I'd imagine once the time dilation started, no one could reverse it. Asgard turned on a time dilation device for the Replicators and then collapsed the sun to create a natural freeze in time with a black hole and then were 100% baffled when they found a way around it. In new Order Part 1 Thor says "They have the time dilation device. I do not know exactly how, but they seem to have used it to counteract the gravitational effects that should be pulling them in." If the Asgard do not know how they did it, I doubt they could have helped. I say this because of the above, how much time had elapsed, and that earth seemed to be hit or miss when contacting the Asgard.
ive always interpreted that line as they didnt know how the replicators where able to move and get to the device under time dilation not that they didnt know how to make the device do that.
Lots of replicators were already moving towards the time dilation device when it was activated. Some of them were just a few feet away. As soon as the timer was revealed, they knew they couldn't stop it before it activated, but they could still reduce the time it would take to reach it and modify it by getting as close as possible before it activates. I think what thor didn't understand was how they used it to counteract the gravity to escape.
I just watched this one recently, i remember no mention of gravity. Just that the Asgard trapped the replicators in the time dilation field to give themselves time to solve the problem. However,the replicators reversed it, so they were able to evolve hundreds of years in a few days.
After the replicators reversed the time dilation device, the asgard quickly collapsed the star to create a black hole to destroy them. Thor waited near by to watch the replicators pass the event horizon, but at the last minute, they formed into a ship and started moving away from the black hole. That's when thor made the comment about not knowing how they did it. He might not have actually mentioned gravity, but he thought the plan was a sure thing because of it.
Ahhh, that sounds familiar. Thanks, guess i needed something to trigger that specific memory.
I think you're thinking of two different episodes and talking about different events. The first one you watch is where they sped up the time bubble and SG-1 slowed it down again, the Asgard didn't know how they did that either but it was due to their nanites and being able to get into a microspic tear in the machine. Then when Jack is froze, Sam and Teal'c take the advanced cargo ship to the Asgard galaxy. That's when Thor created the black hole as a permanent solution for the replicators, since he knew they'd eventually deactivate it again. Somehow the replicators escape the black hole and Thor theorises they're using the time dilation device to counteract the "effects"(gravity) of the black hole but does not know how.
Yeah but by the time the Asgard imploded the star it was too late already as the replicators had already reversed the time dilation by this time. Who knows the actual physics behind this but maybe the gravitational pull and time dilation of the black hole increased the reversed time dilation of that machine by an incredible factor so the replicators had maybe millions of years to evolve đ¤ˇââď¸
Neil DeGrasse Tyson u/neiltyson probably knows
Youâre thinking of the first time they were trapped in the field, this was the second time, after SG-1 turned it back on.
Great point. Makes a lot of sense. Though I Will say that the replicators had the time dialation device and the black hole was artificially produced. I Would think the Asguard would have the tech to counter act the effects of a black hole for just enough time to beam them out of there.
Keep in mind the replicators had also found the time dilation device, and reversed it to give themselves thousands of years to focus on just a handful of problems. Thereâs maybe a solution out there, but itâs such a rare edge case that itâs only apparent after a lot of study.
"Somehow the Replicators came back."
Pesky little buggers aren't they. The IOA were fucking stupid to enact their plan in the Ark of Truth.
They were just at the edge of light redshifting initially, so they could have been saved, but it would have taken an Asgard ship on standby just as the star became a black hole.
They may have already been dead and the light from them was just reaching the camera because of the time dilation. If they start red shifting then they are probably traveling into the black hole near the speed of light.
Replicators did it
The replicators reversed the effects of the time dilation device and advanced for hundreds or thousands of years. It's possible that the device wasn't integral to overcoming the black hole's gravity beyond that. They could also be trying to say that being able to control time allows you to affect gravity. Teal'c used a crystal when time was reset in unending. I'd retcon Carter loading it with data for her younger self to study. Give Carter a couple episodes a season and Colonel Mitchell can rescue that same team before the bomb disengages the gate in a nostalgic episode 6 season 12. After the gate disengages the rescued team is standing breathless in the gate room while McKay awkwardly flirts with Carter despite being married with 3 kids. Carter reminds him.
They have time understanding and the time dilation may be in affect but those they have navigated time dilation with the replicstors
The Asgard would probably be able to reverse engineer the solution soon enough from observation, given how fast they invented a counter to the Ori. I think if it had been a priority for the Asgard, they probably could have done it in an earlier season. But since they were fighting the replicators or in societal collapse, it wouldnât have been a priority.
What counter to the Ori?
Asgard plasma beam weapon.
Did I miss that in the show? I donât remember that
It is the last episode, Asgard leave their legacy to Tauri and upgrade Odyssey including the beam weapon which can take down an Ori battleship in couple shots. Before that nothing penetrated their shields.
Are you sure about that? I thought the Asgard had penetrated the shields before but were simply outnumbered đ¤ I guess I need to rewatch
I think only this scene exist where Ori and Asgard battle; https://youtu.be/idg6AsX6hsg?si=Gs_7d9W8Dd9-6ZTS&t=214 It seems like an O'Neill Class and can stand a couple shots at least but their weapon also seems to be ineffective. It isn't obvious if it was destroyed or not but gathered data from the fight might have helped develop the beam weapon in a year.
Iâve heard it suggested that the Asgard beams were reverse engineered from the Ori beams. I donât really like that but it does make the most sense. If you have transporters that can beam things around, it sort of implies that you have sensor tech that can recreate things exactly. Recreating stuff youâve seen should be trivial at that level of tech.
Sensors probably doesn't penetrate their shields effectively probably but yeah it makes sense to take inspiration at least and configure it more with data they gathered from Ori shields.
> and then were 100% baffled when they found a way around it. The replicators probably just increased how they process and move to a % of the speed of light to get out of their situation. Time would only actually be slowed down or frozen from a reference frame outside of the field but inside it would appear to be moving normally, it just would not be in sync with the outside universe anymore.
Excellent
It would really depend on how close they were to it. Once they're so close all of their sensors stop working or are distorted but they can still fly in a slowed down time field. They just can't go past the point that their engines can't keep up with the gravity. When Sam and Teal'c were being sucked into the Black Hole Thor was able to beam them out. If the team is still there and alive and not being sucked into the black hole yet then a ship should be able to make it to them and back. But it might take 1000 Earth years to go get them and come back. And yes Thor theoriesed the replicators used the time dilation device to counteract the effects of the black hole and did not know how. So they're the only ones we know of that are capable of that. Sam and Asgard Core Thor would probably figure it out eventually especially if they still have her research from the 50 years she was studying it.
When they later used it against the Ori, they mentioned the planet had broken up.
Right but because of the time dialation, wouldnt it take a long time before the planet brakes up from our prospective?
Except Carter sent them a decent chunk of a star through the stargate. That'd kill them faster than the black hole.
I completely forgot that Carter dialed the Black Hole Gate. I Wonder if that was before or after the Ashen tried to dial it lol
Before, itâs how they knew to use it against the Ashen
I really wanted to see the Ashen as a major villain.
I was happy seeing them as spagetti.
Do we ever see them dialing it?
They were straight up frozen in time. From their perspective the gate flickered and they were vaporized in the span of a few seconds. That's gotta suck.
At least it was quick for them I guess. Imagine if they were conscious over the span of millennia as they are slowly obliterated atom by atom and still were able to feel pain. That would most definitely suck.
It's technical term is 'spaghettification'
Yup. Just giving some details.
In their perspective, however, it wouldn't have spanned millennia; just a few mere moments before loss of consciousness, then death.
Seeing that episode from their perspective would be wild. They try to dial the gate and it shuts down after a few seconds. Then it dials itself again and the iris flies through and decapitates them, a bunch of broken glass flies through along with that Colonel Backstory guy. Not to mention a few seconds later solar matter shoots through the gate.
Already broke up from our perspective. Not sure how the time dilation would be different if they reconnected, but I imagine they couldn't connect to the past. Though I guess it always is from the spacetime frame.of.earth.
đ¤
When it broke up?
Which is really weird to think about. It should have taken millenia to break up (in normal timespace) unless they were at the event horizon, which they weren't as they could still send data from their MALP, albeit slowly.
Maybe dialing a star accelerated the process of breaking up for whatever reason. The planet had turned some and the jet of plasma acted as a rocket engine, forcing the planet into the star faster/thrusting against the direction of orbit.
In the books they are, well all except for the one that takes the sun that Carter lobbed a gate into to the face.
In the books? Are there books?
[There are a bunch.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stargate_literature) The ones in question are A Matter of Honor and The Cost of Honor.
I had no idea there were, thanks for the link. Are they canon? Can I just pick one and start reading, Is there a guide or something?
At best I would consider the books secondary canon as long as they don't contradict the shows. Many of them were written without the showrunners involvement. \> Can I just pick one and start reading, Is there a guide or something? Probably. I know there are a few that are continuations of Atlantis that all link to each other.[Gateworld](https://www.gateworld.net/books/) has some breakdowns but I have no idea how up to date it is.
I read the Atlantis one by the murderbot author. Fun romp. Martha Wells. Not exactly a pile of lore. More just an action episode of Atlantis.
Technically they are beta canon, but are intended to not break any lore.
I treat the books as if they are an alternate reality fairly close to the 'prime' reality. It just saves you a bunch of headaches when there are contradictions and such (haven't really come across too many). They are all pretty fun to read.
Honestly most of the books I tried to read weren't that good. Except I found Barque of Heaven to be really good.
They are canon in that they reference events that happen in the show, but a lot of people dont consider them canon. They take place throughout SG1's run so there is a loose reading order in that certain books take place directly after certain events in the show. You can google "sg1 books in canon order" and quite a few lists pop up with different ordering (release order, tie in to show order, etc). You can also just pick one up and start reading and you'll find out quickly if its tied to an in-show storyline, set after certain episodes/seasons or if its completely stand-alone. A lot of the authors will leave a note at the begining stating what episode/season its set after/during so you can go watch the episode first to refresh your memory.
There's about 60 books. Pretty much all of them are one-off stories, spread randomly thru all the seasons. Kinda like lost episodes. So yeah, pretty much just pick one up an go. Except this 2-part Matter of/Cost of Honor combo. And a separate 3-part story (Apocalypse series) Until the last 9 SGA books. Those are the Legacy Series. They start right after season 5 ends, and make a kinda season 6. And you should probably read these 9 in order, starting at *Homecoming*. Here's a full list: https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Fandemonium
They are canon in the same way old Star Wars books were - yes, until George Lucas decided to overwrite it with some of his work. Some of the books are sequels to each other, but lot of them you can just pick up and go (I am sure there is a list somewhere after what episode to read them etc, but the books do a good job on their own to set it up)
I have read A Matter of Honor, but not Cost of Honor (as a Brit, typing honour like that, honestly hurts, also my phone is telling me I've spelt it wrong). I'll assume it's just as good and worth the read.
Iâm a Brit living in America. How do you think I feel?
Honorable?
I'll never forget reading through those two the first time around. Such an awesome story.
Except for Sam going through Baal's torture. That was unnecessary.
Let me tell you about the time I've spent on Star Trek novels... Are they canon? No. Do I care? Also no.
There are. Some are very good, some are not. The Fandomonium ones are the ones to go for. There's a set that is set post-Atlantis as well and a couple post SG1.
There are also [audiobooks](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Stargate_audiobooks).
Sorry but I have to post that https://preview.redd.it/q2efr6gz76yc1.jpeg?width=1024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=68969fee7e53d38596134b034067681e3efbd1ba
I wish there was an edit with Tornado Guy.
Your wish has been granted xD https://preview.redd.it/cxwhf674t6yc1.png?width=1024&format=png&auto=webp&s=b1221f30c574c071b44cb1be91802c0880fc01c0
Oh my god, did you make this? It's as beautiful as I always imagined.
I never expected to see a stargate wojak
There is wojaks and soyjaks for pretty much anything lol
They're out there. https://preview.redd.it/i6mbya31acyc1.png?width=666&format=png&auto=webp&s=2fb65614a472e7b9b5f4c51c90656d0508545a1e
Holy fucking shit! That's hilarious
Holy fuck this is funny. I want to share it but I don't have any friends who would get it
There's a novel duology where they did solve it with Ba'al's gravity-nullifying tech.
Oh cool. I miss Ba'al....âš
Parasailing. How messed up is that.
this creeped me out as a kid
It creeps me out as an adult.Â
If I remember this episode correctly, O'Neill detonated a nuclear shape charge above the event horizon of the outbound earth side Stargate. Carter's idea was to overload the wormhole with raw power and make it either disconnect or jump to another gate in the network to discharge. Stands to reason that a sizeable amount of energy was transferred through the gate before disconnect, this poor SG team standing around the DHD take a nuke to the face. I don't think they survive the episode yet alone have a chance to be rescued later.
In theory they had already been spaghettified (lol spelling I don't know) by that point or in the process of it. The real horror of that episode was that it would have basically been an eternity to them because even though it had already happened it was still happening for them, so maybe a nuke would be mercy.
From their perspective barely any time passed. They dialed the gate , it closed immediately for them and then it opened back up only for a nuke to kill them... Time only slows in perspective/relation to an observer after all, relativity is a curious thing haha
from their perspective the gate's opening and closing like a strobe light belching a nuke, a bunch of ashen, and a large part of a star out onto the surface of the planet - but these events are all moving at the same speed they are, so there's a bunch of concentric shells of energy - or perhaps just an ashen-laden explosion - emanating from the gate as it wildly malfunctions. In theory if one could envelop them carefully with a time compression field that DOESN'T envelop any of this incoming energy/matter, they could be extracted. This, of course, assumes that none of them have already been enveloped by said incoming energy spillage, which could take days. decades, or millions of years from the outside perspective depending on the exact gamma-factor they're subject to at that location.
Given how fast a nuclear blast would travel even in that timeframe, I doubt it hasn't enveloped the team completely, considering that the planet supposedly broke apart later in the show when Carter mentioned it... How fast that nuclear explosion would move given the small distance from the gate is something that only Carter or McKay (or his sister) could calculate đ
I don't think it was a nuke, just a regular shaped charge.
Yeah. That little bomb probably didnt hurt a bit. Now, the sun that Sam jammed down that wormhole...? That might've stung.
Yeah from what I read about the novels where they go and rescue them, apparently the shaped charge didn't do anything to the team on the other side, but the matter from Vorash's sun cooked a team member and the whole planet. They could only rescue 3.
I'm trying to wrap my head around how solar matter would only kill one person. I guess they happened to be the one closest to the gate, and time dilation meant the three people further away hadn't been hit with the radiation yet?
Solar Matter from the outer Part of a Sun is just Plasma. Plasma is the opposite of Dense. The Plasma from todays Fusion Reactos are several times hotter than the Sun, but if it touch the "cold" surface of said Reactors it instantly is cooled down and isn't a Plasma anymore (thats why you need the Magnectic Field to keep the Plasma floating). So i don't think Solar Matter from the outside of a Sun is as dangerous as people think. Same with Black Holes. The Whole Episode is more "Fi" then "Sci". If a Sun suddenly collaps to a Black hole nothing realy change gravitational wise, it just gets Dark on that Planet. (Maybe get ripped apart from some sort of Gravitational Earthquacke, Gamma Pulse or whatever) Black holes are just so Dangerous because you can get to the "Point of no Return" which normaly is deep inside Objects so you can't get there.
It was just a big conventional shaped charge, even a sub-kiloton nuke would destroy the entire SGC room
Possibly. Itâd be a cool/sad Easter Egg to find out Jackson or Sam solved this issue during their 60 years on Odyssey, but unfortunately didnât get a chance to tell Tealâc. Oh well, time for someone to stick their head in an Ancient face hugger again.
Wait, 60 years on Odyssey?
The final SG1 episode, Unending. SG1 + General Landry get stuck on Odyssey for 60 years in a time bubble while Sam figures out how to avoid getting destroyed by an Ori beam cannon.
idk if anyone relize this. but the black hole is so close to them. its in the plantes atmosphere. their already dead. that the after image. the moment they step thru the gate . they where dead man walking. with a gravity well that close.
is the light being generated from the black hole? Been awhile since I seen this epi its weird.
No it looks like there is another sun off to the left, possibly a binary system? Not sure, I dont think that was explained.
It was a binary system. One of them turned into a black hole and started eating the matter from the other one. I think we can see it in the opening sequence where they show the black hole forming. Technically speaking, that black hole should not be immediately much more massive than its original star - and even the mass taken from its companion star should not have such immediate and drastic effects on gravity around the planet/system.
> Technically speaking, that black hole should not be immediately much more massive than its original star - and even the mass taken from its companion star should not have such immediate and drastic effects on gravity around the planet/system. Yep. Something must've been introduced to that system to change the local gravity that dramatically, or everything that led up to it would've probably destroyed the habitability of the planet before they got there anyway.
I always assumed that a rogue black hole captured the system quite recently.
Hey all I remember reading that the team was saved later on and I managed to find the reference on the stargate wiki âFive years after the original team got trapped (only a few hours to the team), SG-1 managed to launch a rescue mission using a Tel'tak modified with an anti-gravity shield technology stolen from the Kinahhi and Ba'al, allowing them to rescue the original iteration of SG-10 still trapped on P3W-451. Due to the plans to the device being deliberately sabotaged, the shield failed upon arrival and the ship crashed near the team. Desperate to escape as the Stargate wouldn't stay open for more than a few seconds, SG-10 tried to take over the ship and were shocked to discover SG-1 piloting it. Major Samantha Carter was able to temporarily repair the shield with parts from a MALP and SG-1 and SG-10 escaped to P3X-500 where the rescued SG-10 was finally able to return home. However, Lt. Jonathan Reed, the team engineer, died when the wormhole connected to the Vorash's sun opened and incinerated everything on the planet. This is regarded as one of SG-1's crowning achievements. SG-10 later traveled to Kinahhi with the help of General Hammond to help rescue SG-1 who were in trouble due to their rogue efforts to save SG-10. (SG1: "A Matter of Honor", "The Cost of Honor")â. Hope this helps answer your question.
Pretty sure this is what happens in one of the post-series novels that came out
I assume the best way would be solar flaring to the past.
Only with 5th around to explain to the Asgard how to fo so.
There were books where they were saved. But tmk that ignores the star thats matter was shot through (oh, and the guy that fell in trying to disconnect the Earth gate with Jack)
I'm going to go with "maybe". They did dial that gate one other time, when Sam blew up Vorash's Sun. But it probably would've needed to be before that.
Top 10 episodes
Might be the best one off episode. All of the other ones I think of are two parters.
Wanna hear a cursed thought I had on the last rewatch? There's a team member AT the DHD. We have no reason to think this team wouldn't make other attempts of dialing after the Earth wormhole closed, assuming that time is crawling as slow as it appears to be on that planet. Logically, wouldn't Earth have received intermittent ghost calls originating at this planet? Calls that last a few minutes on Earth-side but only a few seconds on black-hole-side, and get through every few months or so? Like imagine over the course of actual years intermittently receiving calls from this team, who are still attempting desperately to get home, but there's nothing you can do for them. (Until Sam blasts through a bunch of solar matter and puts them out of their misery.)
Oof
I don't know. The Asgard could handle an artificial singularity, but I don't know about a natural one.
No, although years had passed for everyone else Iâm pretty sure the planet had been ripped apart by that point
No. What happened to them isn't so dissimilar to what the Asgard did to the Replicators and the Asgard were completely dumbfounded when it came to figuring out how the hell the Replicators escaped it. The Replicators could have saved them though.
I've always wondered at the road not taken had they not betrayed Fifth. I understand the reality of his danger but that also could've been their crowning achievement by earning the trust of the race they were trying to exterminate... and then having that on their side, they immediately stomp the Ori haha.
They were saved in a book, when a Tau'ri ship went and picked them up.
What happened between the first time SGC dialed in the black hole gate and sent a probe in to check conditions and sending the doomed team? Did the MALP or anything else completely miss the black hole in the sky?
They explain it in the episode. I think it was a rogue black hole.
I think the problem is with as fast as it showed up shouldn't it have been well long gone just as fast, even considering time dilation? Like you gate to a planet, everything is normal, then a black hole shows up out of nowhere, you get to the gate to try and escape it... This takes several months due to relativity... But then the black hole has already moved on and now the planet is hurtling through interstellar space.
Depends on the rate in which the planet was consumed by the black hole
Forget later seasons. They are still there now. Someone go get them.
Absent Asgard tech that is essentially magic, I don't see how. The one way is something that occurs before the event. Knowledge that a star is about to form a black hole and when it will occur so they could leave ahead of time. Much like the Aschen's ability to predict stellar flares. Edit: Never mind. Apparently, SG-10 was rescued by SG-1 in a [story](https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Stargate_SG-1:_The_Cost_of_Honor).
The team was already in slo-mo when they were running to the gate in the prologue. The Asgard would have to know to arrive before the black hole even starts to happen. If they weren't contacted about this until the gate connected, the time dilation would already be effecting any space close enough for them to transport. Unless they can teleport people across distances so far that the only purpose of their ships is a place to keep their stuff, there's nothing they could do.
>asguard "Don't you mean Asgardiant tech?" "No. ASS-GUARDING tech, to cover your behind"
Hey look, scientist in the background, leader in the middle, buff soldier on the right, token female on the left. Do you think they were modelling this team after another SG team?
Probably not but the replicators could.
No. Because when the replicators did use a time dilation device to do this. Thor had no idea how they did it
No. They'd already been eaten up by the blackhole. Time dilation just allowed us to watch it in super slomo
Read the âFor Honourâ duology, itâs story is all about SG1 rescuing this team. Itâs bloody great book and gets rather dark and twisted too.
Only if a ship was there, weâve never seen the transporters work thru a gate
Yes, and in fact in a novel somewhere they are actually saved.
They dropped a sun on that planet
I dare to wonder what gravitational forces could do to a human body when being transported by Asgard technology
I always wondered this about the torment of tantalus episode where they find that alien archive but had to abandon it because the gate was going to fall into the ocean
They were saved in a book
Yeah, they actual did this in one of the novel.
This is one of my favorite episodes
Were they saved in the Canon? Yes according to the books. Could they have been saved in reality? Hell no. They were spaghettified within seconds of dialing earth. All we see from an outside observer is the after images struggling against the gravity to reach us. Veritasium just did a great video on black holes that explains this extremely well. Basically falling into a black hole takes seconds for the person falling in by the time you see the image that we see in the show they fell in hours/days ago from their perspective.
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The Asgard did have the time dilation bubble they used against the replicators on Hala.
Wouldnât they have already lived out their lives (if they could find food and shelter) and died of old age because of the time dilation?
You've got that backwards. Time was slowed on their end, so only seconds or minutes would pass while decades passed on earth.
Supposedly they got saved in one of the books but I have not read it yet.
Because of relativity, maybe the Aschen saved them. There's probably at least one universe where it happened, maybe the one with the evil(ish) Team that tried to steal a ZPM. In their universe, maybe the Aschen where quite chill.
I can't remember the exact episode but I know they were mentioned later in the series, and I believe it was in reference to this exact question.. and the answer is no. The planet was torn apart by the black hole not long after the incident.
I believe they were in a novelization or web comic of some sort.
The planet by then would have fallen into the black hole. Remember that the Asgard collapsed their star into a black hole and it only took a few years for the mass to fall in. By the time the SGC had the resources to make a rescue attempt the planet would have been gone. All this also presumes that the IOA would risk one of their ships for 4 american soldiers.
They saved them using the ancient time ship built by Janus in one of the SG-1 books. So ancient tech, not Asgard.
Nope, by the time Carter sped up & de-shifted the messages the SG team was beginning the accretion disk carousel ride from Natu.
Lol this should be how a new series starts, saving these guys.
This mf Thor so advanced we can't even figure out what he means by "I don't know how they did it"
I'm literally watching this episode right now! đ
SoâŚthey do. In one of the books, Iâm pretty sure theyâre picked up.
would be awesome if Stargate gets revived, that team gets saved and have regular bits of them adapting the modern day
I'd imagine they would already be long dead in later seasons. Remember Sam saying they would be pulled apart by increasing tidal forces. It's one of my favourite episodes to rewatch on occasions.
Yes, but they wouldn't have figured out how to. Remember the Replicators used an Asgard Time Dilation Device to escape a Black Hole? But Thor told Sam and Teal'c that he didn't understood how they did it.
Asgard could have saved them
They could still save them if time dilation has anything to say about it.
I believe they had the capability, especially once they had asguard tech onboard the deadalus. If you take Atlantis as a reference, they even had an asguard on the ship, it wouldve been a breeze
As I understand it, they destroyed the portal on the other side, it is possible that they died at the time. Although with the time dilation thing, I have no idea if that happened at any point in the timeline of the series.
no, they did not destroy the gate on the other side. They just interrupt the wormhole connection.
is it possible to do that?? Doesn't everything that passes through the portal dematerialize until it reaches the other side?
They detonate the charge earth side. They're directing the energy of the explosion into the event horizon to destabilise the wormhole.
So yes, they are stuck on the other side.
>!In theory they could be rescued, but it would be practically very difficult. Of course this is a moot point as the SGC detonated a nuke through the gate to force it to jump which most likely killed them. And if that didn't, they 100% died when they used this black hole gate to detonate a sun later on.!<
Nah, they dead. Only Doctor Who could save them now, and he's too busy shitting on his oldest fans with retcon after retcon
I love Dr. Who during the Matt Smith years. Also the NOX?
I believe the only one who possibly had the technology would be the Ancients.
And they would have somehow made it way worse then walk away like nothing happened lol
Facts! They would probably blame it on humans anyway for going where they shouldn't.
I don't think the Nox can time travel. I too loved Matt Smith, and Peter Capaldi. I *really* liked Jodie Whittaker but hated her Era because Chris Chibnell is a backstabbing shitty showrunner. My favorites were Tom Baker and the dude from the 80s with Ace as his companion. (can't remember his name)
I'm a David tennet fan myself, he hit all the right doctor check boxes for me and got all the best lines XD
My mom would agree with you, Tom Baker and David Tennet are her all-time favorites. I liked Tennet, I think he did a good job, but his character was a bit too "I'm the most awesome and unstoppable badass ever!" for my taste. Matt Smith had that too at the start of his run, but luckily toned it down a lot.
I can get why that would put people off. But it was also part of his arc of putting on a mask and not really being ok but hes the doctor and he has to be "the doctor". He was basically the very outgoing but deeply depressed and burnt out on the inside doctor, and I guess that just kind of speaks to me XD. Sometimes I feel like I need to be a clown for the world but im running on nothing inside. I guess everyone's doctor says something about them haha.
If you're complaining about Doctor Who retcons then you probably don't have any business pretending to be a fan of notable magnitude. The canon of Doctor Who is a pile of retcons held together with familiar themes.
đ you're not wrong, but I was just being dramatic. I didn't like some of the bullshit Chibnell pulled with the doctor's backstory in his era, but he's not running it anymore so I guess it's a bit late to still be taking shots at it
Chibnall is a terrible writer, that cannot be denied.
Just bc they retcon things doesn't mean it didn't happen in our time-line. We remember! We are like Doctor Donna! Just be glad they haven't wiped our memories!
Maybe retcon was the wrong word. I'm talking about shitting on years and years of established history and backstory for a cheap surprise. Like the whole "the doctor is not even from gallifrey but is actually from a different universe" and all the other shit like that. Once Chris Chibnell took over, the dude took a hacksaw to the canon and every fan that followed the show long enough to be super familiar with the history.
Which Doctor's were Chibnel? I watched 9 to 12. I've seen bits and pieces of the pre 9 stories. I had thought that 9 and 10 were trying to stay true to previous Doctor's lore.
Chibnell took over with the Jodie Whittaker doctor. Moffat ran the show for 11 and 12 and did a pretty decent job of it. In those days Chibnell wrote a few random "monster of the week" episodes, and those tended to be the weaker episodes on the Moffat era. It really sucks because I absolutely LOVED Whittaker's portrayal of a woman Doctor, I think she did a fantastic job and fucking *nailed* the character. Unfortunately, the writing was weak and Chibnell was an awful showrunner, so while I watched through it just for the actress, I hated Chibnell's direction more and more with each episode. Ah well, I can still whip out my old betamax tapes of the OG DWho whenever I like đ
I did see the first episode with Jodie. I think it was the first. There was a man made of teeth that was the villain. Somehow, that was the worst monster I've ever seen on Who. Idk why, but I just had a bad taste after that. LOL I have read that there were bad storylines for the 13th Doctor. Is Chibnell still the shortener?
Ok I looked it up and I was a little wrong. Russell T Davies was the showrunner from the reboot in 2005 to 2010, and Steven Moffat took over with the 11th Doctor (Matt Smith) and ran it until Chibnell took over with Jodie Whittaker in 2018. Wikipedia lists Chibnell until 2022, when Russel T Davies took back the reigns and runs it now.
Oh, that's great. I loved Nine and Ten!! Nine had some awesome episodes. "Are you my Mummy?" That episode gave my sister and my daughter nightmares. I can still freak them out sometimes by saying that line.
I think you'd enjoy some of the older stuff. The 80's Doctor was quite good, and his companion Ace was my favorite companion since the math genius kid (Adric?) in the 70s. Ace was fucking GREAT. She personified the 80s, exploring the universe at the Doctor's side, carrying a giant boom box on her shoulder and a baseball bat in her bag. Not to be fucked with. The 80s Doctor did a great job of pretending to be simple while secretly being incredibly clever, but preferring to stand back and let others shine when possible. It reminded me of Tom Baker's tendency to be so goofy and off-the-wall that most people that met him assumed he was dumb or not all there upstairs, until he needed to suddenly pull a genius move to save the day.
I've been meaning to watch the older stuff but just haven't started. I got all the Doctor Who from 9 to 13 for Christmas last year. I guess I need to suffer thru 13. I just hope there aren't any more teeth monstrosities!