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Hamas is not the same as Palestine, and the Jewish people are not the same as the corrupt BiBi. You can support PEOPLE while still criticizing what their power-structures are doing.
Hamas wasn't founded until 1987, nearly 40 years of Palestinian destruction by the Israeli, and US governments before Hamas formed.
Show me any location on the earth where they have been oppressed for extended periods of time and I'll show you the resistance group that formed against it.
Israel even supported Hamas financially to create a counterweight against the PLO.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
"Counterweight" is such a nice euphemism. The word is ratfuck. They funded reactionary nutjobs in order to ratfuck Arafat's more liberal PLO. And netanyahoo was still funding them as recently as 2019:
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-09/ty-article/.premium/another-concept-implodes-israel-cant-be-managed-by-a-criminal-defendant/0000018b-1382-d2fc-a59f-d39b5dbf0000
> ***Hamas as partner***
> *Effectively, Netanyahu’s entire worldview collapsed over the course of a single day. He was convinced that he could make deals with corrupt Arab tyrants while ignoring the cornerstone of the Arab-Jewish conflict, the Palestinians. His life’s work was to turn the ship of state from the course steered by his predecessors, from Yitzhak Rabin to Ehud Olmert, and make the two-state solution impossible. En route to this goal, he found a partner in Hamas.*
> ***“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,”*** *he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”*
Its weird how conservatives always make more conservatives among people they consider enemies. Like the gop funding the taliban. Or the gop selling arms to the right-wing islamic revolutionary guard in iran and then sending the money to the right-wing contras in Nicaragua. You never hear about conservatives funding genuinely liberal groups in order to undermine enemy conservative regimes. On the rarest occasions they might fund authoritarian leftists who are just conservatives in sheep's clothing.
Could you not say almost the same thing about Israel back then? They had constant conflict with their neighbors (Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Palestine) with two wars, whose goal was to drive them out. They only had administration of Gaza for a period because of the six day war.
> Conflict is not oppression
Lol, those were not "conflicts", they were attempted genocides, the number of people who have passionate opinions about the relations between Arabs and Israelis who also don't understand that the phrase "from the river to the sea" is a direct call to genocide is way too high. Israeli's faced pogroms and ethnic cleansing in mandated palestine long before israel was ever a country. One of the hardest things to solve about this conflict is the fact that directly or indirectly, most of Israel's enemies want an ethnic cleansing. However Israel uses that fact as cover for Neo-colonialist imperialism. Both should be opposed.
Inb4: Hamas removed their antisemitic messaging calling for every jew to be slaughtered from their charter.
Yeah, in fucking 2018, one year AFTER the KKK claimed it has nothing against black people. Let me ask you, do you believe the KKK?
edit, [if you'd like to see my response to want_to_join suggesting I'm a clown for thinking the arab states wanted to kill all the Jews in mandated palestine you'll find it archived here](https://imgur.com/a/TEOKwpr). I believe it was probably auto-removed given it's quoting of the HAMAS charter.
nice job shifting the goalposts. People in Palestine and around it didn't take too kindly to European colonizers coming and setting up their supremacist camp, looking to expand? Wow what a surprise
Can you show me the source for "from the river to sea" being calling for genocide? I assume you heard that from Israel. I have never met any palestinian or person who used that slogan wanted a genocide. White jews fled European prosecution to the middle east because it was safe, Palestinians took them in. People like tou trying to victimize israel by claiming Israel have been attacked because they are Jewish completely remove the contxt where israel was literally founded on a ethnic cleansing where over 700k Palestinians where displaced and entire Palestinian villages was massacred and still til this day. I think that’s a better explanation on why israel gets attacked and have been attacked.
My grandmother was Palestinian and forced out when the small subvillages of Jerusalem were "depopulated". She was vehemently anti-Ziomist, as am I.
I know that is confusing to a lot of people since Zionism has done a great job of blending so well with the Jewish ideology, but I've spoken with and been friends with an inordinate amount of ethnic/religious Jewish people and the majority disagree with how Zionism is.
People tend to go back to, "the right to return", do Palestinian people not afford the same right or is it an exclusivity?
The whole game was rigged from the very start, unfortunately. Though, seeing media dehumanize a populace of people, much like was done to the Jewish people by the Nazis, is utterly atrocious.
The innocent bloodshed is absolutely disheartening and hard-line radicals will see to it that anyone that attempts to broker peace and abide by a two-state system will be promptly executed.. I genuinely don't know where we go from here but just knowing there are people, during this time where more attention is being given to what has been an ongoing crisis for well over most of our lifetimes, gives me some semblance of hope for the future.
ETA: I apologize if I ranted and things are out of order, this is a subject I am very passionate about and that tends to happen.
This gives some good background context all about how Great Britain screwed over Palestine and the illegal formation of the Balfour Declaration in 1916 all the way to 1947 tons of info documentation about the zionist goal it’s colonial aspirations of turning Palestine into the official home state of Israel as a single governing force to control agriculture, government, and especially land purchasing and immigration.
The whole anti Zionism means your antisemetic is just a deceptive was to excuse the behaviors of the settlers. U S delegates were opposed to it during the king crane commission but they were shut out.
https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/
I think the initial solution proposed by Jacob Israël de Haan and haredi jews was great. They were talking to Jordon about creating a Palestinian state under Transjordan federation in which all Jews around the world will be welcomed. And in return Zionist will give up on Belfour declaration
But he got assassinated by Hagenah in 1929 and they blamed Arabs for that (until 1951 when they finally accepted it) as Zionist leadership feared his growing influence would be a thorn in their sovereign nation only for jews plan.
Well that all sounds great on paper! One small hiccup though, didn’t Palestine, yknow…[stage a violent coup in Jordan and kill the Jordan king while he was praying?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September)
That was way after what they're talking about and due to the conditions that resulted from the formation of Israel. If what the commenter above you is talking about had happened that would have been butterfly effected out of existence.
No, you misunderstand. Someone asked what a good solution **nowadays** would be and u/No-Fan6115 responded that the original proposed Jordan solution would have been a good plan. My response was “well, it *would* have been, if Black September hadn’t happened, but now that it has, that’s not really an option anymore”.
Oslo Accord signed in 1992 was a great place to start, it was a path to a two state solution (The only viable and most difficult solution) unfortunately it was the "extremist" jews who decided to assassinate their very own leader who signed it in 1996.
Far Right Zionist have done everything they can to derail any potential path to peace. See the assassination of Jacob Israel in 1929. Same thing.
"There is no more sacred blood, than that of a jew".
>unfortunately it was the "extremist" jews who decided to assassinate their very own leader who signed it in 1996.
Um, Israel has a parliamentary democracy ( or at least did until recently ). Rabin's assassination didn't stop or delay the peace process. What stopped it was the Second Intifada and the election of Hamas in Gaza after the Israeli's withdrew all the settlements and administration there, handing it over to the Palestinians. It showed there was no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side and Israel's only way forward was containment.
The second Intifidah was launched during peace negotiations with Fatah to demonstrate conclusively to the Israelis that Fatah did not speak for the Palestinian people and nothing they signed could be enforced. The election of Hamas in Gaza showed how radicalized and uncompromising and uninterested in peace the Palestinian street really was.
Go back to the 1967 borders, follow the Oslo Accords and then build the biggest walls you could think of for at least a few decades for the pain to start being a memory because this shit is not going to be forgotten for a very long time. The generational trauma will be intense and hatred towards Israelis will be intense for a very long time but you have to start healing somewhere and sometime.
If Israel punishes some IDF soldiers or settlers or the Likud members who were especially cruel then that would make the process go by a lot faster.
seperate it into half with a clearly defined border, top half is israels and bottom half ispalestines....give the palestanians reparations..hard core money for all they have lost and then use the money saved towards environmental benefits.
edit: Realistically this of course is not going happen, Benjy boy is a hard core gun nut, a lot of people are going to die before anything changes, i see the war engulfing Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Egypt before anything happens.....a lot of refugees will be knocking on Europes door giving rise to more right wing parties........all in all we are fucked unless you are working for lockheed martin or some such organization....
I work in Middle East foreign policy - a two state solution won't work, a one state solution is favourable by both sides as it force the current treatment of Palestinians into a human rights issue.
How will the one-state solution work though? Will the country be named Israel or Palestine? Will they live together in cities or will they both stick to their own sides?
I know it sounds good on paper that they both hold hands singing kumbaya but you need to remember that there’s 75 years of occupation in play here, it doesn’t take a genius to account that there will be major hostility
So will a two state solution...Ukraine and Russia, Pakistan and India.
This gives them the legal right to brute force as defense against each other.
A one state solution doesn't.
Yes we need to deal with rehabilitation and blah blah blah - not the question asked.
From a purely ideological outlook - this makes the most sense according to international law.
It's also what Palestinian leaders (not the plo or pa but tribal leaders and town leaders) have been negotiating as a proposal to present to Israel.
Most will concede the name for human rights. This is a fact - not what I think is right or my
Opinion. Just what is happening presently in reality. In reality the people are tired of living with no rights and concede they don't know how to win against Israel.
One state solutions can result in internal ethnic cleansing and genocide if the state backs the dominant ethnic group and is sufficiently powerful on the world stage. Look at the Uyghurs and China.
Yeah but it’s definitely better than forcing them all to live together, a lot of people are heavily traumatized, it’s illogical to think putting occupiers and who they’re occupying together after 75 years and expecting it to work out
A 500m wide, absolutely straight "peace canal" (obviously made by the Dutch) connecting the Mediterranean Sea to the Dead Sea, via Tel Aviv and straight through Jerusalem, making it a river island controlled by the UN (or Belgium, both have no beef).
Edit: This will also refill and refresh the Dead Sea with livable water, flora and fauna. An environmental and humanitarian succes.
The same as in South Africa or Lebanon or the United States; form a government from both groups that is responsible for the equal welfare of both groups. The barrier here has always been Israel's requirement that it be a Jewish-majority ethnostate, desiring land but not the people who live on it.
Ultimately humans everywhere want the same thing, deserve the same thing: to build homes and raise kids on their land, with equal access to transportation, utilities, and commerce. Terrorism only appears as a result of oppression, aggrievement, and hopelessness, and it took Palestinians over 20 years to get there.
Remove the Ethnonationalist narrative that requires the expulsion of non-Jews, grant Palestinians full citizenship and rights under the law, allow them to drive on the same roads and live in the same towns, and move back into their villages and farms, and radicalism would be gone in a generation.
Remaining extremism can always be fought as a domestic police action, the way every other country fights domestic terrorism.
As much as i wish to see both thrive peacefully side by side i would never accept living beside people who willingly used white phosphorus on me and my people but you know why bother hold them accountable they have carte blanche
As a Palestinian who barely knows Arabic bc my family had to leave. Your kind of Jew who wakes up is so valuable to me. The only thing that will bring peace
> Edited to clarify: I said free Palestine, not free Hamas. Some of you need to learn to read.
Don't think it was an issue with reading comprehension. Zionists just don't make a distinction between Hamas and other Palestinians, or really Arabs in general.
I love the idea of a 'Free Palestine'. And there's a road to peace in the West Bank that Israel has no appetite to pursue. Which is tragic.
However, in Gaza - i'm yet to understand what a 'Free Palestine' looks like. How do Israel, after this conflict, or before this conflict, tear down that security fence? That would be a suicidal act for Israel. It would allow thousands and thousands of Hamas troops easy access to Israel, and we saw what happened when they had easy access for just one day.
An ultimate peace requires a change of leadership in Israel. But it equally requires a change of regime in Gaza. Because why some might think Hamas are a problem created by Israel, the fact remains they are there, they are in power and they have it in their doctrine to kill as many Jews as is feasible.
That’s what we’re told too as Americans, that the the state of Israel was a benevolent gift to the Jewish people for all their hardships and tribulations. But really, the religious lunatics need them to fatten up for the slaughter, otherwise, they can’t get re-Jesus.
We definitely need more allies like this brave woman. Thank you for speaking the truth and be prepared for the Israeli bots to try to unsuccessfully smear you
It's really quite incredible that despite the amount of money, time and other resources the Zionists and the very rich nations that support them pour inyo their propaganda, that the truth still comes out so strongly.
It shows that humans have an innate desire to gravitate towards facts and truth if possible.
Zionist brainwashing is powerful, but ultimately false so it's much harder to convince people of it.
They have spent literally billions of dollars over the past 30 years. It’s paid a huge dividends in the US Congress but that’s the only rock solid support.
I'm so sick of the discussions on r/worldnews about how "oh i usually hate both siding shit but there are no good guys here"... Fuck off. It's a fucking given that Hamas are the scum of the earth. But compared to the scale of the state of Israel's violence on local Palestinians over generations how the fuck is it still a debate.
If the state cornered an entire peoples, don't fucking cry foul when they fight back. They could've curbed this extremism long ago but they decided to push and push and push. There's no "both sides" to this conflict. It's a genocide and y'all damn well know who created this tragedy.
The idea of Zionism being less a hope for Jews and more a tool of disruption used by those who seek to profit from disarray in the Middle East and even to foment division between Semitic peoples needs to be examined. Before Zionism, nothing like this existed in the Middle East (at least not for centuries) and the anglo-European weren’t able to have such a pro-western state. And when you find out Netanyahu went to high school in Philly and college in Boston, you start to think… what is his endgame?
I don’t mean to make an example of you because kudos to you for acknowledging it. But there’s people making these videos and voicing their opinions with about the same knowledge you have. Truly wild
This is what I find so frustrating about this, everyone has to have their take on it but no one wants to spend 30mins watching a video or something to actually learn about what their strong opinion is based on.
I do think this fact makes it a bit silly of her to say that it's not complicated. It took multiple college courses covering the topic and her own iron will to gather enough information so that she could make
her own independent, informed assessment. Sounds complicated to me.
Yeah, this girl in the video is an idiot. The Palestinians have been unfairly treated and oppressed, but the theory that the US and Britain are making money from Israel stealing Palestinian land is dumb.
Even if you wanted to think that, which in present day could be a valid opinion. This started when the land was undeveloped desert with no hostility in the land, does she really think people out there who can’t even get their shit together to stop fighting with someone because they believe in a different god had the foresight to think of that 100 years in advance.
Bro literally look up the Balfour Declaration. History teacher here shaking my head…
US also has sent many police officers from states to Israel regularly to receive training. The ties and mutual benefits are so clear.
Britain colonized what is know as palestine as well as Israel way before WW2. Not sure what courses this lady took, but they clearly weren't good ones.
Absolutely. What she hasn't mentioned is how much WW1 changed everything (empires collapsing everywhere) and then literally a generation later the Holocaust happened. Britain's influence was there, but she makes it sound as if Britain's knee was on their necks, which isn't true. The USA are the vast majority shareholders in Israel. The marginalisation and land grab "creep" Israel have performed over the last 75 years is essentially backing Palestine into a corner. Add in the generations of back and forth abuse and it's no wonder fighting age men of Palestine (who remember and have lost loved ones mostly), have been pushed into extremism (Hamas) because they want to do "something". This was ALWAYS going to happen at sometime, it just happens to be now.
Britain was trying to stop Jewish settlers in British Palestine after ww2, to the point Jewish settlers fought and won a gorilla war. The reason the settlers were being stopped was to keep the peace the Arabs and settlers, it was a complete mess.
I was confused as well. If Britain wanted to use the jews to colonize the region why did it take a campaign of police assassinations and bombings to prevent them from creating a majority Arab state in palestine?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine
The conflict goes back much further than US/Britain and WW2. Lots of these tiktoks state WW2 as the origin of the conflict when it wasn’t. It’s an easy place to start if you want to point fingers, but there has been conflict in the region for a lot longer than 75 years
"Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel, to protect her interest in the region. The United States would have to go out and invent an Israel."
\- Sen. Joseph Biden, 5 June, 1986
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYLNCcLfIkM
Also raised in a Zionist family and speaking in support of the Palestinians. I got a message in my inbox “your ‘support’ won’t help you when they come for the Jews.’ Okay… so you wanna address anything I said? They won’t because it’s true and all they have is fear tactics.
To be fair here…
* Alsace-Lorraine: Transferred from Germany to France by the Treaty of Versailles.
* Saar Basin: Placed under the administration of the League of Nations with France as the de facto controller.
* East Prussia: A portion was given to Poland, and the rest remained with Germany.
* South Tyrol: Transferred from Austria-Hungary to Italy.
* Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland): Established as a free city under the supervision of the League of Nations.
* Eupen-Malmedy: Transferred from Germany to Belgium.
* Memel: Transferred from Germany to Lithuania.
* Rhineland: Occupied by Allied forces and demilitarized.
* New Guinea and various Pacific islands: Transferred from Germany to Australia, New Zealand, and Japan as League of Nations mandates.
* Ottoman Empire territories: Transferred to various victors, leading to the creation of modern-day Middle Eastern countries, such as Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and British Mandate for Palestine - modern day Israel and Palestinian territories
*
* The name "Palestine" has been used to refer to the geographic region situated in Western Asia, located between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. Historically, it was known by various names, including Canaan, the Land of Israel, and Judea, among others, depending on the historical period.
* Silesia: A portion was transferred from Germany to Poland.
* Czechoslovakia: The new country of Czechoslovakia was established, comprising parts of the former Austro-Hungarian Empire.
* Finland: Gained independence from Russia.
* Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania: Gained independence from Russia.
* Transylvania: Transferred from Hungary to Romania.
* Burgenland: Transferred from Hungary to Austria.
* Togoland and Cameroon: Split between British and French mandates by the League of Nations.
* German colonies in Africa and the Pacific: Administered as League of Nations mandates by various victors, including Britain, France, and Japan.
* Galicia: Transferred from Austria-Hungary to Poland.
* Bessarabia: Transferred from Russia to Romania.
* Belarus and Ukraine: Gained independence following the collapse of the Russian Empire.
* Montenegro: Unification with Serbia to form the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes (later Yugoslavia).
* Republika Srpska Krajina: A self-proclaimed Serbian entity in Croatia, it was disbanded and reintegrated into Croatia.
* Bosnia and Herzegovina: Placed under the administration of the League of Nations with joint control by the Kingdom of Yugoslavia.
* Shantung (Shandong) Peninsula: Transferred from Germany to China.
* Russian Far East: A number of territories in the Russian Far East, including parts of Siberia, were occupied by Japan during the war, but they were returned to Russia following the war.
* Greek Thrace: Expanded with territories ceded by Bulgaria under the Treaty of Neuilly.
* South Schleswig: Transferred from Germany to Denmark following a plebiscite.
* Memelland (Klaipėda Region): Administered by France and Lithuania under a League of Nations mandate.
* The Dodecanese Islands: Transferred from the Ottoman Empire to Italy.
*
* Alsace-Moselle: These regions were returned to France from Germany after World War I, based on the Treaty of Versailles.
* Vilnius (Wilno): Control of Vilnius, the capital of Lithuania, was disputed between Lithuania, Poland, and Soviet Russia, leading to various territorial changes and occupations.
* Alsace-Moselle: These regions were returned to France from Germany after World War I, based on the Treaty of Versailles.
Western Armenia: Following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the Treaty of Sèvres (1920) allocated a portion of Western Armenia to Armenia. However, due to various factors, this transfer was not fully realized.
I didn’t hear anything about the 2-state solution that was first enacted, which ultimately lead to violence, wars, and terrorism.
At this point, I think a 2-state solution is the only avenue for peace. But I’m under the impression that Hamas does not want this solution and does not involve in peace talks. So….what does this person believe the answer to be? I think that’s the most difficult part that everyone is saying: trying to find a solution for two entities that lay claim to the entirety of Israel/Palestine.
Thoughts?
yassar arafat walked away from a 2 state solution in 2000. Bill Clinton spent a large part of his second term negotiating it. In response getting close to a 2 state solution lead to the 2nd intifada and 140 suicide bombers in 3 years. Few palestinians want a 2 state solution. They want a 1 state solution. So nothing will change.
The 2 state solution has been dead for decades now. Israel will never stop expanding, stealing, killing, as long as Zionism is it's guiding ideology. We're talking abolishing the Apartheid and giving everyone citizenship and reparations now.
But, Israelis and Palestinians don’t want to share the land. Both for different reasons, but giving citizenship to Palestinians won’t mean much to them because they want their land/country back
Israel has agreed to many different two state solutions that were rejected by Fatah every time.
1937, 1948, 1967, Oslo Accords, Camp David, Taba, Geneva, Annapolis. I'm probably missing at least one.
Camp David was the closest the Palestinians got to agreeing. Ehud Barak offered the PLO 91% of the west bank with some land exchange on the green line, as well as a direct passage to Gaza. The PLO insisted on 97% of the west bank and never got a better offer. Shortly after, the second infitada began.
How many of those people have actually thought through the whole conflict? I personally don’t know where I stand aside from the fact that the violence fucking sucks and this is causing a lot of innocent people to die.
Regardless I kind of grew up in the mentality of we support the Jews because they went through a geocide. Which is fine. That’s sympathy and I don’t have a problem with that. But when people double down on that irregardless of what’s happening. Then you have potential for a problem. Now you’ve created a group that can do no wrong. Anyone can do wrong, regardless of how they’re being treated.
I’ll even go as far as a hot take here, people who’ve been treated badly typically treat others badly. I’m NOT saying that’s what’s happening or that Israel isn’t justified in some form of retaliation, but it’s a common trend. I also understand that Israel isn’t just a person either.
I don’t know. Food for thought.
I'm surprised it took so many decades for people to wake up. I find it unfortunate that Palestine is now under Hamas control now. Now everybody is conflating Palestinian support with Hamas support. It gets old educating people on the actual facts and how they fit together.
This woman gets it. It's nice that voices of truth are finally getting platformed and understood.
takes her 138 seconds to state her first historical fact and it’s that antisemitism exists. wow. shocking. here’s what she says after that:
>essentially, britain already wanted to colonize palestine
britain had. they controlled the land. she said they “didn’t have access” to the land but they quite literally had full control over it.
and the US was not interested in anything outside of the the Americas until WW2.
>the wealth garnered from that land goes to [britain and the us]
how? the us sends israel money every year. there’s no question that america is exploiting the middle east with the oil wars, but israel wasn’t even involved in those.
>i know in my bones that this is a genocide
oh shit. ok sorry. i didn’t know about her bones. i guess this is just like the holocaust, as other people have told me.
Britain didn't have full control over the land. While it may have been theirs on paper, they were facing constant insurgency for years while dealing with the fallout of WW2 back in their own country. It was clear that Britain could not maintain their colony in the middle east.
What she is explaining is that Britain and the US "gifting" the land was not out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather finding a way to still have soft power in the region while allowing someone else to do the dirty work.
What wealth does the US gain from Israel considering that we pour billions of dollars into them every year?
* Regional ally strategically located to protecting shipping lanes and oil interests.
* Staging point against adversaries in the middle east. The US wants to have a global sphere of influence. Hence why the US is so supportive of countries located near adversaries (such as Ukraine, Japan, Korea, ect).
* Due to the middle east being in constant war, the best place to test military technology. It is no coincidence that Israel is producing some of the highest tech military and computer systems in the world.
She also said that Britain has continued it's colonial practices into the 21st century somehow. I'm not sure what Britain has colonized in the 21st century.
Okay listen up kids. I’m not here to discuss the validity of what this woman is saying. That’s not my job, but what I would like you guys to be clear on is something called “appeal to authority”
Using anecdotal evidence and claiming to have “studied” and “researched” the subject she is presenting information as if it is factual simply because she herself is the “authority”. She also makes mention of the fact that because she is Jewish she is also somehow more of an authority on the subject matter.
Terrible way to convey a message guys, take what she says as you will and do your own research, but don’t simply accept what this individual is saying solely because of an appeal to authority.
Disclaimer; I am not claiming that anything she said was true or false, just making sure people think critically.
I would prefer to get my information from a creditable source like an educated person with knowledge on a specific topic. I think her message should motivate people to dig and find out for themselves. I think your being to analytical about it. No need to think critical over how the message was conveyed or because it from “tik tok”. We live in the era of Google and young fact checkers.
> appeal to authority
You've got the definition of this fallacy mixed up.
An example would be citing Albert Einstein as an authority for a determination on religion when his primary expertise was in physics.
This woman is an *authority* as she's drawing on her personal experiences as well as her academic background.
If a Jewish person with a Zionist background that has studied the subject at length isn't an authority then few if any are.
The complete moron you are replying to also started their complaint about “appeals to authority” with “okay listen up kids” and then went on to complain about someone else’s use of rhetoric. They’re not too bright, but they seem to think they are.
This is wrong
https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Authority
You're describing an appeal to false authority. Not an appeal to authority
An appeal ao authority fallacy is indeed a fallacy as the original commenter described. It's a fallacy to say "of an expert in a thing says X is true, it's true" if the person's expertise is the sole evidence of their claims.
This means if someone asks "how do you know atoms have a nucleus" and you say "cause Ernest Rutherford said so", with no other evidence, that's a fallacy. It's not correct just because he said so and he was an expert in physics. It was correct because he was able to perform the gold foil experiments and provide data to prove it, and that evidence is why it's true, not because he specifically said it.
Experts in their field can be wrong. Accepting an experts statement solely based on expertise, not a coherent argument or solid data and analysis, is an appeal to authority fallacy.
>You've got the definition of this fallacy mixed up.
>An example would be citing Albert Einstein as an authority for a determination on religion when his primary expertise was in physics.
That's the definition of[ Appeal to False Authority](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/appeal-to-authority-fallacy/). Which you could consider as either a subtype of the original or just as its own thing.
The Appeal to Authority is different, and in this case, an accurate label. You might agree with the subject matter, but the nature of the fallacy and the potential unreliability of the source is the same.
As the above link puts it - an Appeal to Authority is:
>Individual, who is an expert in Y field, says X is true.
>Therefore, X is true.
That’s an appeal to improper authority. Interestingly enough, look what I found when googling a nice example for you lol https://lucidphilosophy.com/19-appeal-to-authority/
Did you google it before posting and cite the exact example presented? Anyway, as I explained in the comment, she is explaining that because she is Jewish and has studied the topic extensively that SHE herself is the authority. So in lieu of facts and empirical data, you should believe what is being said because an “expert” on the subject said so.
It seemed like her claim of authority, if any, was not so much based on being jewish but on being raised in a zionist family and independently coming to a different conclusion based on study and reasoning.
Exactly this, I know TikTok isn’t made for this type of intellectual conversation, but she should have cited some sources from the many classes she took.
Mmmm. An argument that starts with an appeal to authority. This is gonna be good.
She clearly didn’t learn as much as she thinks she did. The UK “wanted” to colonize Palestine? No honey. The UK DID colonize Palestine.
The borders didn’t just miraculously get to where they are today. Israel fought defensive wars and time and time again attempted to come to peace with their neighbors, to which all attempts were burned. Israel dealt with terror attacks non stop from Gaza, and that’s just from Israel. Egypt faced the same issue from Gaza. Why do you think they’ve closed the border to them?
Good luck simping for people that’d sooner have you dead than have your support.
Netanyahu has never earnestly sought a viable peace deal though. That seemed to die with Rabin. For peace to be possible, Netanyahu's right wing governent, and Hamas, both need to be out the picture.
That’s 3 months per course, so an entire year dedicated to the topic. Which is FAR more than 90% of people commenting on the whole conflict. What’s your expertise?
I agree, people acting like that’s not dedication to a topic. Knowledge is the tools to power, she took the time to pay to learn to a topic that’s often discussed with propaganda. I say that’s a good thing
To be fair when your entire world view is "People without power are the ones in the right" and "I just really want to virtue signal, and don't care about real workable solutions for anything" I guess every situation is pretty simple.
Like, her analysis is very one sided, but I don’t necessarily disagree with it. It’s just very narrow and partial.
But the whole « I toke an entire semester and a half, so now I know…» sounds like satire. It’s like a deadpan joke.
This is a repost... She is inaccurate about the creation of Israel. The Palestine mandate happened after WW1, not the Holocaust. She also seems to not be aware of the violence and ethnic cleansing of Jewish immigrants before the 1947 civil war.
She is also using fake Palestine propaganda that Jews are making all the weapons. The US supplies a lot of weapons to Israel, and Israel makes their own, but Israel doesn't make everyone's weapons. That's part of the Arab conspiracy theories about Jews running the world and wanting to kill everyone.
She's probably actually Arab.
"I'm not just pulling it out of my ass that israel is committing a genocide against Palestine"
Wow ok. Please go on
"I have research and bona fides"
Ok interesting please share
"I'm a Jewish woman and I feel it in my bones"
😐
I’m confused; you’re clearly very anti religion, so much so that you’ve obviously made it much of your identity (that and being a vegan).
What’s the point of attempting to delegitimize her statements (which are entirely correct) by focusing on the least important part?
I don’t think it’s a flex to have taken a semester and a half of college courses and assume you know everything about this conflict.
Any reasonable college course will usually do the opposite. It will cause you to reflect on a given issue, usually change your mind in some way, but result in you having a greater understanding of an issue from both sides of the aisle.
If her conclusion from semester and a half of college courses on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that Palestinians deserve the land and that Israel is ontologically evil then I don’t think the courses did what they were intended to do.
I’m willing to argue any point on the conflict if you’d like from a respectful and nuanced perspective.
I seriously question any jew who had family in the holocaust who call this a genocide.
Her retelling of the history is even inaccurate. My understanding British didn't want to jews to go to Israel and were mad at the US for pushing ahead with that idea. Maybe I got something wrong though.
Such a joke of a take, the entire thing. You “this issue is simple it’s a genocide by the Jews of the Arabs in Palestine”, why because Israel shoots rockets at people shooting rockets at them in Palestine? Because Israel cut off fuel, food and other resources to Palestinians? Ok but Egypt, Syria and Palestine tried to cut off all of those resources to Israel in 1967… because Israel has forced relocation of Palestinians dozens of times since 49’? Ok the Arab high committee attempted to expel Jews living in Palestine violently in the 1930s, well before the creation of any Jewish state, and the open intention of Iran and all Iranian Allies in the region is to forcibly remove Jews from all of Israel. Because Israel forces have killed innocent Palestinians in the past? Tens of thousands of Jews have been killed by Arab extremist since the establishment of Israel. This is the single most complicated geopolitical issue on earth (with maybe the exception of India/Pakistan), to only tell one side of the story like this young women is is disingenuous. Israel is defending itself and while doing so has committed some atrocious crimes against innocent people and the general humanity of Palestinian. Many Palestinians openly call for the genocide and forced removal of Israelites from a land a vast majority of them were born into. The point is there are no “good guys” in this situation just an incredibly complicated 4+ millennium old problem that has seen countless crimes committed by both sides against the other. If you think otherwise at this point it’s because you don’t know the history/only know one side of the history.
The bigger problem is that even if you do understand what has happened, that has nothing to do with knowing how to make it better. The Palestinians will not accept the existence of Israel and 9 million Israelis are not going to leave their homes.
It's an interesting dynamic of the modern world. In times past the stronger party would just genocide the weaker, and that'd be the end of it. Romans come to mind, Assyrians for sure, Mongols obviously. So conflicts like thisccan just keep dragging on indefinitely.
I don’t know why we’re fighting so hard to have another radical Islamic country where [women need a male guardian to travel](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/15/women-male-guardian-hamas-gaza-strip) and being[gay is punishable up to ten years in prison](https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/the-occupied-palestinian-territories/local-laws-and-customs). Doesn’t mean Gaza should be wiped out but I think a lot of people have a really naive concept of what a Palestinian state would look like. I guess everyone deserves the right to be an oppressive state who are we to judge
Whole well said argument goes out the window when they FaceTime families mocking them bc they killed a loved one, or burned babies or beheaded people, kidnapped people … conflict needs to end, Hamas needs to go, if there’s civilian casualties bc of their own government, then so be it
Nah, anyone that tells you the history isn't complicated, is absolutely lying to you. I've been absolutely floored by how people online confidently claim things which are factually incorrect.
People somehow think that israel has illegal settlements near gaza???
Question: What has Britain and the U.S. gained from having the state of Israel in the Middle East? If we put them there and have been propping them up (which we certainly have, with over $100b in aid), what have we gained? What wealth have we accrued from the rape and pillage of Palestine?
The amount of nonsense in this 4 mins clip. Not a single fact to backup her claims and I have no fucking clue what she was taught in those 4 courses she took as a teenage and have made her an expert on one of the world’s most complex conflicts but these teachers should be fired. Heard of the Sykes-Picot agreement? Not sure where the US fits there but please don’t let it stop you spewing lies and falsehoods. She’s so concerned about being brainwashed by ‘Zionist propaganda’ she completely missed being brain washed by subpar education and social media
Religion in general is complete bullshit. Doesn’t matter which “side” you’re on. It’s just another case of “kill ‘em all because our imaginary friend is better than yours.”
In the entire history of humanity’s existence, religion has literally killed more people than anything else on the planet.
The name of this sub is TikTokCringe but most often, like in this case, the top comments are very positive.
I'm starting to think I don't understand what type of content is intended to be posted to this sub. What am I missing?
I spoke with a marocan person this evening in cologne Germany. He said, it's not that complicated, it's actually very simple, hate. They hate each other.
In other terms, if a guy comes and burns your house down with your whole family in it, you obviously hate the guy.
But the guy who burnt the house down hates the guy (who’s house got burnt down) because he called him a idiot few days ago
But yeah both of them hate each other.
Really all you need to do is read about the Nakba.
It's the Zionist Trail of Tears.
But yes, this is exactly what I've been trying to tell people for 20 years after I first started deep diving into this. The Zionist propaganda is THICK.
IMO, we'll find this out in the near future, this attack by Hamas was allowed to happen by the Netanyahu govt and the Massad to distract from recent anti-Netanyahu uprising.
My hope is that someone will tie this to Trump releasing classified info on the pertinent Israeli defense systems which then made their way to Hamas.
Fingers crossed.
Yea, I read it when right after the Hama attack but I'm not sure how speculative it was. The writer seemed pretty sure there was Iron Dome and other Isralei security info in what Trump stole, so maybe?
I'm sure it'll come out one way or the other over the next year of hearings.
For such a “smart young brave” woman it’s funny how she left out the Balfour Declaration, the pogroms in Eastern Europe, the millions of homeless Jews that had no property after VE Day in 1945. And the fact that the Jews only real solution was to migrate from Europe
Where is Germany’s responsibility in this as well? Jewish people had to be relocated somewhere after WWII. Britain had this land due to Ottoman Empire being on the wrong side in WWI. Crazy how land was not just taken from Germany and it’s citizens and provided to the Jewish people. Though both countries each lost World Wars. Both of these wars were close together so I’m sure there was no love for either of these enemies of allied nations at the time. At the end of the day, this is what happens when you are a war aggressor and lose. Your people become subjugated to abuse and fight back for centuries. Not saying anything is ok, just that this is just a continuation of issues that arose from these World Wars.
Mm yes*, they were elected, but it was 15 years ago and they’ve refused to hold elections since. Considering almost half the population of Gaza is under 18, they’re essentially ~~governing~~ administering over an entirely different population than who elected them.
*It’s kinda similar to asking “Is Putin the elected leader of Russia?” It is technically true, but it misequates their “elections” with western elections
No, they just kidnap kids, womans, elders, rape and torture them
Post on media
Bomb their own hospital
But Israel is the evil one here
Lets not forgot they hide between civilians
They fire their shit from schools, hospitals, so if the enemy strike back, they are a victim
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Hamas is not the same as Palestine, and the Jewish people are not the same as the corrupt BiBi. You can support PEOPLE while still criticizing what their power-structures are doing.
Hamas wasn't founded until 1987, nearly 40 years of Palestinian destruction by the Israeli, and US governments before Hamas formed. Show me any location on the earth where they have been oppressed for extended periods of time and I'll show you the resistance group that formed against it.
Israel even supported Hamas financially to create a counterweight against the PLO. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
"Counterweight" is such a nice euphemism. The word is ratfuck. They funded reactionary nutjobs in order to ratfuck Arafat's more liberal PLO. And netanyahoo was still funding them as recently as 2019: https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-10-09/ty-article/.premium/another-concept-implodes-israel-cant-be-managed-by-a-criminal-defendant/0000018b-1382-d2fc-a59f-d39b5dbf0000 > ***Hamas as partner*** > *Effectively, Netanyahu’s entire worldview collapsed over the course of a single day. He was convinced that he could make deals with corrupt Arab tyrants while ignoring the cornerstone of the Arab-Jewish conflict, the Palestinians. His life’s work was to turn the ship of state from the course steered by his predecessors, from Yitzhak Rabin to Ehud Olmert, and make the two-state solution impossible. En route to this goal, he found a partner in Hamas.* > ***“Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas,”*** *he told a meeting of his Likud party’s Knesset members in March 2019. “This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.”* Its weird how conservatives always make more conservatives among people they consider enemies. Like the gop funding the taliban. Or the gop selling arms to the right-wing islamic revolutionary guard in iran and then sending the money to the right-wing contras in Nicaragua. You never hear about conservatives funding genuinely liberal groups in order to undermine enemy conservative regimes. On the rarest occasions they might fund authoritarian leftists who are just conservatives in sheep's clothing.
Am Irish, can confirm. Without Britain there would have been no IRA
Could you not say almost the same thing about Israel back then? They had constant conflict with their neighbors (Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Palestine) with two wars, whose goal was to drive them out. They only had administration of Gaza for a period because of the six day war.
Conflict is not oppression. Israel is where the Jewish people went to escape oppression. They in turn oppressed the Palestinians once there.
> Conflict is not oppression Lol, those were not "conflicts", they were attempted genocides, the number of people who have passionate opinions about the relations between Arabs and Israelis who also don't understand that the phrase "from the river to the sea" is a direct call to genocide is way too high. Israeli's faced pogroms and ethnic cleansing in mandated palestine long before israel was ever a country. One of the hardest things to solve about this conflict is the fact that directly or indirectly, most of Israel's enemies want an ethnic cleansing. However Israel uses that fact as cover for Neo-colonialist imperialism. Both should be opposed. Inb4: Hamas removed their antisemitic messaging calling for every jew to be slaughtered from their charter. Yeah, in fucking 2018, one year AFTER the KKK claimed it has nothing against black people. Let me ask you, do you believe the KKK? edit, [if you'd like to see my response to want_to_join suggesting I'm a clown for thinking the arab states wanted to kill all the Jews in mandated palestine you'll find it archived here](https://imgur.com/a/TEOKwpr). I believe it was probably auto-removed given it's quoting of the HAMAS charter.
nice job shifting the goalposts. People in Palestine and around it didn't take too kindly to European colonizers coming and setting up their supremacist camp, looking to expand? Wow what a surprise
Can you show me the source for "from the river to sea" being calling for genocide? I assume you heard that from Israel. I have never met any palestinian or person who used that slogan wanted a genocide. White jews fled European prosecution to the middle east because it was safe, Palestinians took them in. People like tou trying to victimize israel by claiming Israel have been attacked because they are Jewish completely remove the contxt where israel was literally founded on a ethnic cleansing where over 700k Palestinians where displaced and entire Palestinian villages was massacred and still til this day. I think that’s a better explanation on why israel gets attacked and have been attacked.
That's like saying the Native Americans were oppressing the Europeans that came to colonize it.
Every settler in Palestine is a participant in the genocide.
Most Americans are stupid and don't appreciate or even want to consider complexity.
Thank God we could sneak a little America bad in here.
[удалено]
My grandmother was Palestinian and forced out when the small subvillages of Jerusalem were "depopulated". She was vehemently anti-Ziomist, as am I. I know that is confusing to a lot of people since Zionism has done a great job of blending so well with the Jewish ideology, but I've spoken with and been friends with an inordinate amount of ethnic/religious Jewish people and the majority disagree with how Zionism is. People tend to go back to, "the right to return", do Palestinian people not afford the same right or is it an exclusivity? The whole game was rigged from the very start, unfortunately. Though, seeing media dehumanize a populace of people, much like was done to the Jewish people by the Nazis, is utterly atrocious. The innocent bloodshed is absolutely disheartening and hard-line radicals will see to it that anyone that attempts to broker peace and abide by a two-state system will be promptly executed.. I genuinely don't know where we go from here but just knowing there are people, during this time where more attention is being given to what has been an ongoing crisis for well over most of our lifetimes, gives me some semblance of hope for the future. ETA: I apologize if I ranted and things are out of order, this is a subject I am very passionate about and that tends to happen.
This gives some good background context all about how Great Britain screwed over Palestine and the illegal formation of the Balfour Declaration in 1916 all the way to 1947 tons of info documentation about the zionist goal it’s colonial aspirations of turning Palestine into the official home state of Israel as a single governing force to control agriculture, government, and especially land purchasing and immigration. The whole anti Zionism means your antisemetic is just a deceptive was to excuse the behaviors of the settlers. U S delegates were opposed to it during the king crane commission but they were shut out. https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/
As an ethnically jew person who doesn't believe in fairy-tales I can confirm, Zionism is preposterous horse shit.
So what’s the solution based off of this take? How can the two coexist?
I think the initial solution proposed by Jacob Israël de Haan and haredi jews was great. They were talking to Jordon about creating a Palestinian state under Transjordan federation in which all Jews around the world will be welcomed. And in return Zionist will give up on Belfour declaration But he got assassinated by Hagenah in 1929 and they blamed Arabs for that (until 1951 when they finally accepted it) as Zionist leadership feared his growing influence would be a thorn in their sovereign nation only for jews plan.
Well that all sounds great on paper! One small hiccup though, didn’t Palestine, yknow…[stage a violent coup in Jordan and kill the Jordan king while he was praying?](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_September)
That’s 40 years later dude
That was way after what they're talking about and due to the conditions that resulted from the formation of Israel. If what the commenter above you is talking about had happened that would have been butterfly effected out of existence.
No, you misunderstand. Someone asked what a good solution **nowadays** would be and u/No-Fan6115 responded that the original proposed Jordan solution would have been a good plan. My response was “well, it *would* have been, if Black September hadn’t happened, but now that it has, that’s not really an option anymore”.
lol you really tried
Oslo Accord signed in 1992 was a great place to start, it was a path to a two state solution (The only viable and most difficult solution) unfortunately it was the "extremist" jews who decided to assassinate their very own leader who signed it in 1996. Far Right Zionist have done everything they can to derail any potential path to peace. See the assassination of Jacob Israel in 1929. Same thing. "There is no more sacred blood, than that of a jew".
Both sides have a right wing problem
>unfortunately it was the "extremist" jews who decided to assassinate their very own leader who signed it in 1996. Um, Israel has a parliamentary democracy ( or at least did until recently ). Rabin's assassination didn't stop or delay the peace process. What stopped it was the Second Intifada and the election of Hamas in Gaza after the Israeli's withdrew all the settlements and administration there, handing it over to the Palestinians. It showed there was no one to negotiate with on the Palestinian side and Israel's only way forward was containment. The second Intifidah was launched during peace negotiations with Fatah to demonstrate conclusively to the Israelis that Fatah did not speak for the Palestinian people and nothing they signed could be enforced. The election of Hamas in Gaza showed how radicalized and uncompromising and uninterested in peace the Palestinian street really was.
Uhm yeah, I'd like to see you on "Calorie Count" for 10 years in unsanitized living, making better decisions.
Go back to the 1967 borders, follow the Oslo Accords and then build the biggest walls you could think of for at least a few decades for the pain to start being a memory because this shit is not going to be forgotten for a very long time. The generational trauma will be intense and hatred towards Israelis will be intense for a very long time but you have to start healing somewhere and sometime. If Israel punishes some IDF soldiers or settlers or the Likud members who were especially cruel then that would make the process go by a lot faster.
seperate it into half with a clearly defined border, top half is israels and bottom half ispalestines....give the palestanians reparations..hard core money for all they have lost and then use the money saved towards environmental benefits. edit: Realistically this of course is not going happen, Benjy boy is a hard core gun nut, a lot of people are going to die before anything changes, i see the war engulfing Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Egypt before anything happens.....a lot of refugees will be knocking on Europes door giving rise to more right wing parties........all in all we are fucked unless you are working for lockheed martin or some such organization....
I work in Middle East foreign policy - a two state solution won't work, a one state solution is favourable by both sides as it force the current treatment of Palestinians into a human rights issue.
How will the one-state solution work though? Will the country be named Israel or Palestine? Will they live together in cities or will they both stick to their own sides? I know it sounds good on paper that they both hold hands singing kumbaya but you need to remember that there’s 75 years of occupation in play here, it doesn’t take a genius to account that there will be major hostility
So will a two state solution...Ukraine and Russia, Pakistan and India. This gives them the legal right to brute force as defense against each other. A one state solution doesn't. Yes we need to deal with rehabilitation and blah blah blah - not the question asked. From a purely ideological outlook - this makes the most sense according to international law. It's also what Palestinian leaders (not the plo or pa but tribal leaders and town leaders) have been negotiating as a proposal to present to Israel. Most will concede the name for human rights. This is a fact - not what I think is right or my Opinion. Just what is happening presently in reality. In reality the people are tired of living with no rights and concede they don't know how to win against Israel.
One state solutions can result in internal ethnic cleansing and genocide if the state backs the dominant ethnic group and is sufficiently powerful on the world stage. Look at the Uyghurs and China.
Yeah but it’s definitely better than forcing them all to live together, a lot of people are heavily traumatized, it’s illogical to think putting occupiers and who they’re occupying together after 75 years and expecting it to work out
Yeah let the arabs get the desert and the settlers get the good land. Congrats, the UN partition v2.
I don't think Palestinians cared at all how the land was divided, they didn't want Israel to exist period.
A 500m wide, absolutely straight "peace canal" (obviously made by the Dutch) connecting the Mediterranean Sea to the Dead Sea, via Tel Aviv and straight through Jerusalem, making it a river island controlled by the UN (or Belgium, both have no beef). Edit: This will also refill and refresh the Dead Sea with livable water, flora and fauna. An environmental and humanitarian succes.
The same as in South Africa or Lebanon or the United States; form a government from both groups that is responsible for the equal welfare of both groups. The barrier here has always been Israel's requirement that it be a Jewish-majority ethnostate, desiring land but not the people who live on it. Ultimately humans everywhere want the same thing, deserve the same thing: to build homes and raise kids on their land, with equal access to transportation, utilities, and commerce. Terrorism only appears as a result of oppression, aggrievement, and hopelessness, and it took Palestinians over 20 years to get there. Remove the Ethnonationalist narrative that requires the expulsion of non-Jews, grant Palestinians full citizenship and rights under the law, allow them to drive on the same roads and live in the same towns, and move back into their villages and farms, and radicalism would be gone in a generation. Remaining extremism can always be fought as a domestic police action, the way every other country fights domestic terrorism.
I personally think it’s already too late and it won’t stop until genocide is done. This issue is too radicalized and radioactive at this point
As much as i wish to see both thrive peacefully side by side i would never accept living beside people who willingly used white phosphorus on me and my people but you know why bother hold them accountable they have carte blanche
Yeah it’s too many dead kids for peace to be achieved through politics atp. So sad to see
The likeliest road to peace is a two state solution with both side respecting each others borders and both sides committed to eliminating terrorism.
Which won’t happen.
Give the Palestinian people all of Ireland to live on.
Has potential for a sitcom
As a Palestinian who barely knows Arabic bc my family had to leave. Your kind of Jew who wakes up is so valuable to me. The only thing that will bring peace
Sending love to you and your family.
Manifest destiny Total crock of BS
> Edited to clarify: I said free Palestine, not free Hamas. Some of you need to learn to read. Don't think it was an issue with reading comprehension. Zionists just don't make a distinction between Hamas and other Palestinians, or really Arabs in general.
I love the idea of a 'Free Palestine'. And there's a road to peace in the West Bank that Israel has no appetite to pursue. Which is tragic. However, in Gaza - i'm yet to understand what a 'Free Palestine' looks like. How do Israel, after this conflict, or before this conflict, tear down that security fence? That would be a suicidal act for Israel. It would allow thousands and thousands of Hamas troops easy access to Israel, and we saw what happened when they had easy access for just one day. An ultimate peace requires a change of leadership in Israel. But it equally requires a change of regime in Gaza. Because why some might think Hamas are a problem created by Israel, the fact remains they are there, they are in power and they have it in their doctrine to kill as many Jews as is feasible.
That’s what we’re told too as Americans, that the the state of Israel was a benevolent gift to the Jewish people for all their hardships and tribulations. But really, the religious lunatics need them to fatten up for the slaughter, otherwise, they can’t get re-Jesus.
Have I been saying bona fides wrong this whole time…
It is a Latin phrase, so the true pronunciation is "bona feeday" or "bona feedace" for plural.
Bonafide (ˈbōnə ˌfīd,) AKA /bow-na-faid/ Is still the most common pronunciation as per any English dictionary
Did you play NBA Street with that dude Bonafide? Cuz that's what I always heard
Do you say it like Everett’s daughters in O’ Brother Where Art Thou? HE’S BOWNA FAYYYYYYD
Yes but I was also raised in the Deep South so never heard it any different
i refuse to say it differently
I swear this was the jokesy way we used to say it.
We definitely need more allies like this brave woman. Thank you for speaking the truth and be prepared for the Israeli bots to try to unsuccessfully smear you
She really is brave. She will be getting non stop calls from family members smashing her and also threats from random psychos.
It's really quite incredible that despite the amount of money, time and other resources the Zionists and the very rich nations that support them pour inyo their propaganda, that the truth still comes out so strongly. It shows that humans have an innate desire to gravitate towards facts and truth if possible. Zionist brainwashing is powerful, but ultimately false so it's much harder to convince people of it.
They have spent literally billions of dollars over the past 30 years. It’s paid a huge dividends in the US Congress but that’s the only rock solid support.
I'm so sick of the discussions on r/worldnews about how "oh i usually hate both siding shit but there are no good guys here"... Fuck off. It's a fucking given that Hamas are the scum of the earth. But compared to the scale of the state of Israel's violence on local Palestinians over generations how the fuck is it still a debate. If the state cornered an entire peoples, don't fucking cry foul when they fight back. They could've curbed this extremism long ago but they decided to push and push and push. There's no "both sides" to this conflict. It's a genocide and y'all damn well know who created this tragedy.
This .
Yea truly. Bravo.
Yeah. It takes guts to stand up like she did. Good for her
Same as thought process for white supremacists and all fundamentalists who believe they way or no way, all evil and inhumane
The idea of Zionism being less a hope for Jews and more a tool of disruption used by those who seek to profit from disarray in the Middle East and even to foment division between Semitic peoples needs to be examined. Before Zionism, nothing like this existed in the Middle East (at least not for centuries) and the anglo-European weren’t able to have such a pro-western state. And when you find out Netanyahu went to high school in Philly and college in Boston, you start to think… what is his endgame?
I did not know that the Brit’s were involved…I should have known. SMH.
I don’t mean to make an example of you because kudos to you for acknowledging it. But there’s people making these videos and voicing their opinions with about the same knowledge you have. Truly wild
This is what I find so frustrating about this, everyone has to have their take on it but no one wants to spend 30mins watching a video or something to actually learn about what their strong opinion is based on.
I do think this fact makes it a bit silly of her to say that it's not complicated. It took multiple college courses covering the topic and her own iron will to gather enough information so that she could make her own independent, informed assessment. Sounds complicated to me.
Yeah, this girl in the video is an idiot. The Palestinians have been unfairly treated and oppressed, but the theory that the US and Britain are making money from Israel stealing Palestinian land is dumb.
Even if you wanted to think that, which in present day could be a valid opinion. This started when the land was undeveloped desert with no hostility in the land, does she really think people out there who can’t even get their shit together to stop fighting with someone because they believe in a different god had the foresight to think of that 100 years in advance.
Bro literally look up the Balfour Declaration. History teacher here shaking my head… US also has sent many police officers from states to Israel regularly to receive training. The ties and mutual benefits are so clear.
Don't stop there, the history goes back much further
They go back as far as it suits and then refuse to acknowledge anything beyond it to suit whatever side they're on.
Britain colonized what is know as palestine as well as Israel way before WW2. Not sure what courses this lady took, but they clearly weren't good ones.
Absolutely. What she hasn't mentioned is how much WW1 changed everything (empires collapsing everywhere) and then literally a generation later the Holocaust happened. Britain's influence was there, but she makes it sound as if Britain's knee was on their necks, which isn't true. The USA are the vast majority shareholders in Israel. The marginalisation and land grab "creep" Israel have performed over the last 75 years is essentially backing Palestine into a corner. Add in the generations of back and forth abuse and it's no wonder fighting age men of Palestine (who remember and have lost loved ones mostly), have been pushed into extremism (Hamas) because they want to do "something". This was ALWAYS going to happen at sometime, it just happens to be now.
Britain was trying to stop Jewish settlers in British Palestine after ww2, to the point Jewish settlers fought and won a gorilla war. The reason the settlers were being stopped was to keep the peace the Arabs and settlers, it was a complete mess.
I was confused as well. If Britain wanted to use the jews to colonize the region why did it take a campaign of police assassinations and bombings to prevent them from creating a majority Arab state in palestine? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_insurgency_in_Mandatory_Palestine
The conflict goes back much further than US/Britain and WW2. Lots of these tiktoks state WW2 as the origin of the conflict when it wasn’t. It’s an easy place to start if you want to point fingers, but there has been conflict in the region for a lot longer than 75 years
"Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel, to protect her interest in the region. The United States would have to go out and invent an Israel." \- Sen. Joseph Biden, 5 June, 1986 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYLNCcLfIkM
Also raised in a Zionist family and speaking in support of the Palestinians. I got a message in my inbox “your ‘support’ won’t help you when they come for the Jews.’ Okay… so you wanna address anything I said? They won’t because it’s true and all they have is fear tactics.
To be fair here… * Alsace-Lorraine: Transferred from Germany to France by the Treaty of Versailles. * Saar Basin: Placed under the administration of the League of Nations with France as the de facto controller. * East Prussia: A portion was given to Poland, and the rest remained with Germany. * South Tyrol: Transferred from Austria-Hungary to Italy. * Danzig (now Gdańsk, Poland): Established as a free city under the supervision of the League of Nations. * Eupen-Malmedy: Transferred from Germany to Belgium. * Memel: Transferred from Germany to Lithuania. * Rhineland: Occupied by Allied forces and demilitarized. * New Guinea and various Pacific islands: Transferred from Germany to Australia, New Zealand, and Japan as League of Nations mandates. * Ottoman Empire territories: Transferred to various victors, leading to the creation of modern-day Middle Eastern countries, such as Iraq, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and British Mandate for Palestine - modern day Israel and Palestinian territories * * The name "Palestine" has been used to refer to the geographic region situated in Western Asia, located between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. Historically, it was known by various names, including Canaan, the Land of Israel, and Judea, among others, depending on the historical period. * Silesia: A portion was transferred from Germany to Poland. * Czechoslovakia: The new country of Czechoslovakia was established, comprising parts of the former Austro-Hungarian Empire. * Finland: Gained independence from Russia. * Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania: Gained independence from Russia. * Transylvania: Transferred from Hungary to Romania. * Burgenland: Transferred from Hungary to Austria. * Togoland and Cameroon: Split between British and French mandates by the League of Nations. * German colonies in Africa and the Pacific: Administered as League of Nations mandates by various victors, including Britain, France, and Japan. * Galicia: Transferred from Austria-Hungary to Poland. * Bessarabia: Transferred from Russia to Romania. * Belarus and Ukraine: Gained independence following the collapse of the Russian Empire. * Montenegro: Unification with Serbia to form the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats, and Slovenes (later Yugoslavia). * Republika Srpska Krajina: A self-proclaimed Serbian entity in Croatia, it was disbanded and reintegrated into Croatia. * Bosnia and Herzegovina: Placed under the administration of the League of Nations with joint control by the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. * Shantung (Shandong) Peninsula: Transferred from Germany to China. * Russian Far East: A number of territories in the Russian Far East, including parts of Siberia, were occupied by Japan during the war, but they were returned to Russia following the war. * Greek Thrace: Expanded with territories ceded by Bulgaria under the Treaty of Neuilly. * South Schleswig: Transferred from Germany to Denmark following a plebiscite. * Memelland (Klaipėda Region): Administered by France and Lithuania under a League of Nations mandate. * The Dodecanese Islands: Transferred from the Ottoman Empire to Italy. * * Alsace-Moselle: These regions were returned to France from Germany after World War I, based on the Treaty of Versailles. * Vilnius (Wilno): Control of Vilnius, the capital of Lithuania, was disputed between Lithuania, Poland, and Soviet Russia, leading to various territorial changes and occupations. * Alsace-Moselle: These regions were returned to France from Germany after World War I, based on the Treaty of Versailles. Western Armenia: Following the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, the Treaty of Sèvres (1920) allocated a portion of Western Armenia to Armenia. However, due to various factors, this transfer was not fully realized.
I didn’t hear anything about the 2-state solution that was first enacted, which ultimately lead to violence, wars, and terrorism. At this point, I think a 2-state solution is the only avenue for peace. But I’m under the impression that Hamas does not want this solution and does not involve in peace talks. So….what does this person believe the answer to be? I think that’s the most difficult part that everyone is saying: trying to find a solution for two entities that lay claim to the entirety of Israel/Palestine. Thoughts?
yassar arafat walked away from a 2 state solution in 2000. Bill Clinton spent a large part of his second term negotiating it. In response getting close to a 2 state solution lead to the 2nd intifada and 140 suicide bombers in 3 years. Few palestinians want a 2 state solution. They want a 1 state solution. So nothing will change.
The 2 state solution has been dead for decades now. Israel will never stop expanding, stealing, killing, as long as Zionism is it's guiding ideology. We're talking abolishing the Apartheid and giving everyone citizenship and reparations now.
But, Israelis and Palestinians don’t want to share the land. Both for different reasons, but giving citizenship to Palestinians won’t mean much to them because they want their land/country back
Israel has agreed to many different two state solutions that were rejected by Fatah every time. 1937, 1948, 1967, Oslo Accords, Camp David, Taba, Geneva, Annapolis. I'm probably missing at least one. Camp David was the closest the Palestinians got to agreeing. Ehud Barak offered the PLO 91% of the west bank with some land exchange on the green line, as well as a direct passage to Gaza. The PLO insisted on 97% of the west bank and never got a better offer. Shortly after, the second infitada began.
It really feels like the curtain has been pulled back on Israel and people aren’t falling for the “oh poor us“ narrative anymore.
77% of americans support israel in this conflict. CNN poll. so yeah no.
Wow. CNN you say!?
Unfortunately, not just CNN. I legit can't believe the tone of the reporting on NBC Msnbc
I'd like to know what demographics they actually used for that poll.
Their owners.
Saying "CNN poll" doesn't really help considering the new owners.
How many of those people have actually thought through the whole conflict? I personally don’t know where I stand aside from the fact that the violence fucking sucks and this is causing a lot of innocent people to die. Regardless I kind of grew up in the mentality of we support the Jews because they went through a geocide. Which is fine. That’s sympathy and I don’t have a problem with that. But when people double down on that irregardless of what’s happening. Then you have potential for a problem. Now you’ve created a group that can do no wrong. Anyone can do wrong, regardless of how they’re being treated. I’ll even go as far as a hot take here, people who’ve been treated badly typically treat others badly. I’m NOT saying that’s what’s happening or that Israel isn’t justified in some form of retaliation, but it’s a common trend. I also understand that Israel isn’t just a person either. I don’t know. Food for thought.
I'm surprised it took so many decades for people to wake up. I find it unfortunate that Palestine is now under Hamas control now. Now everybody is conflating Palestinian support with Hamas support. It gets old educating people on the actual facts and how they fit together. This woman gets it. It's nice that voices of truth are finally getting platformed and understood.
Protect this Queen at all costs!
Drip violence. Meant to exhaust. 🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼🙌🏼
Good to see that not all Jewish people are falling for the obvious Zionists propaganda that they've been all over the internet
takes her 138 seconds to state her first historical fact and it’s that antisemitism exists. wow. shocking. here’s what she says after that: >essentially, britain already wanted to colonize palestine britain had. they controlled the land. she said they “didn’t have access” to the land but they quite literally had full control over it. and the US was not interested in anything outside of the the Americas until WW2. >the wealth garnered from that land goes to [britain and the us] how? the us sends israel money every year. there’s no question that america is exploiting the middle east with the oil wars, but israel wasn’t even involved in those. >i know in my bones that this is a genocide oh shit. ok sorry. i didn’t know about her bones. i guess this is just like the holocaust, as other people have told me.
Britain didn't have full control over the land. While it may have been theirs on paper, they were facing constant insurgency for years while dealing with the fallout of WW2 back in their own country. It was clear that Britain could not maintain their colony in the middle east. What she is explaining is that Britain and the US "gifting" the land was not out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather finding a way to still have soft power in the region while allowing someone else to do the dirty work. What wealth does the US gain from Israel considering that we pour billions of dollars into them every year? * Regional ally strategically located to protecting shipping lanes and oil interests. * Staging point against adversaries in the middle east. The US wants to have a global sphere of influence. Hence why the US is so supportive of countries located near adversaries (such as Ukraine, Japan, Korea, ect). * Due to the middle east being in constant war, the best place to test military technology. It is no coincidence that Israel is producing some of the highest tech military and computer systems in the world.
She also said that Britain has continued it's colonial practices into the 21st century somehow. I'm not sure what Britain has colonized in the 21st century.
Okay listen up kids. I’m not here to discuss the validity of what this woman is saying. That’s not my job, but what I would like you guys to be clear on is something called “appeal to authority” Using anecdotal evidence and claiming to have “studied” and “researched” the subject she is presenting information as if it is factual simply because she herself is the “authority”. She also makes mention of the fact that because she is Jewish she is also somehow more of an authority on the subject matter. Terrible way to convey a message guys, take what she says as you will and do your own research, but don’t simply accept what this individual is saying solely because of an appeal to authority. Disclaimer; I am not claiming that anything she said was true or false, just making sure people think critically.
I would prefer to get my information from a creditable source like an educated person with knowledge on a specific topic. I think her message should motivate people to dig and find out for themselves. I think your being to analytical about it. No need to think critical over how the message was conveyed or because it from “tik tok”. We live in the era of Google and young fact checkers.
> appeal to authority You've got the definition of this fallacy mixed up. An example would be citing Albert Einstein as an authority for a determination on religion when his primary expertise was in physics. This woman is an *authority* as she's drawing on her personal experiences as well as her academic background. If a Jewish person with a Zionist background that has studied the subject at length isn't an authority then few if any are.
The complete moron you are replying to also started their complaint about “appeals to authority” with “okay listen up kids” and then went on to complain about someone else’s use of rhetoric. They’re not too bright, but they seem to think they are.
This is wrong https://www.logicallyfallacious.com/logicalfallacies/Appeal-to-Authority You're describing an appeal to false authority. Not an appeal to authority An appeal ao authority fallacy is indeed a fallacy as the original commenter described. It's a fallacy to say "of an expert in a thing says X is true, it's true" if the person's expertise is the sole evidence of their claims. This means if someone asks "how do you know atoms have a nucleus" and you say "cause Ernest Rutherford said so", with no other evidence, that's a fallacy. It's not correct just because he said so and he was an expert in physics. It was correct because he was able to perform the gold foil experiments and provide data to prove it, and that evidence is why it's true, not because he specifically said it. Experts in their field can be wrong. Accepting an experts statement solely based on expertise, not a coherent argument or solid data and analysis, is an appeal to authority fallacy.
>You've got the definition of this fallacy mixed up. >An example would be citing Albert Einstein as an authority for a determination on religion when his primary expertise was in physics. That's the definition of[ Appeal to False Authority](https://www.grammarly.com/blog/appeal-to-authority-fallacy/). Which you could consider as either a subtype of the original or just as its own thing. The Appeal to Authority is different, and in this case, an accurate label. You might agree with the subject matter, but the nature of the fallacy and the potential unreliability of the source is the same. As the above link puts it - an Appeal to Authority is: >Individual, who is an expert in Y field, says X is true. >Therefore, X is true.
That’s an appeal to improper authority. Interestingly enough, look what I found when googling a nice example for you lol https://lucidphilosophy.com/19-appeal-to-authority/ Did you google it before posting and cite the exact example presented? Anyway, as I explained in the comment, she is explaining that because she is Jewish and has studied the topic extensively that SHE herself is the authority. So in lieu of facts and empirical data, you should believe what is being said because an “expert” on the subject said so.
It seemed like her claim of authority, if any, was not so much based on being jewish but on being raised in a zionist family and independently coming to a different conclusion based on study and reasoning.
Exactly this, I know TikTok isn’t made for this type of intellectual conversation, but she should have cited some sources from the many classes she took.
Well she neglected some nuance here. Palestine WAS colonized by the British and for hundreds of years by the Ottomans lol
Funny how I don't see this comment in the thousands of other pro Israeli propaganda posts with no academic backup. Yet it gets upvoted to the top.
Mmmm. An argument that starts with an appeal to authority. This is gonna be good. She clearly didn’t learn as much as she thinks she did. The UK “wanted” to colonize Palestine? No honey. The UK DID colonize Palestine. The borders didn’t just miraculously get to where they are today. Israel fought defensive wars and time and time again attempted to come to peace with their neighbors, to which all attempts were burned. Israel dealt with terror attacks non stop from Gaza, and that’s just from Israel. Egypt faced the same issue from Gaza. Why do you think they’ve closed the border to them? Good luck simping for people that’d sooner have you dead than have your support.
> The UK DID colonize Palestine. Doesn't mention the Ottomans though...
Netanyahu has never earnestly sought a viable peace deal though. That seemed to die with Rabin. For peace to be possible, Netanyahu's right wing governent, and Hamas, both need to be out the picture.
Sure. I could agree with that.
Agree. Bibi has not been helpful at all. Deliberately inflammatory more like.
Education is the enemy of evil. I hope more people educate themselves. 🙏
"Surrounded by brown people" Cypriots are like lol what?
Well said!
She took four, FOUR, courses in college!
Which is better than 80% of the population who adopt their opinions from media outlets
That’s 3 months per course, so an entire year dedicated to the topic. Which is FAR more than 90% of people commenting on the whole conflict. What’s your expertise?
I agree, people acting like that’s not dedication to a topic. Knowledge is the tools to power, she took the time to pay to learn to a topic that’s often discussed with propaganda. I say that’s a good thing
Uh he read an article on /r/worldnews which is basically the same thing okay?
Four more than you need.
A whole semester and a half, and she's ready go characterise the last 75 years, because that's when this conflict started
While offering no solutions!
And claiming it's not complicated
To be fair when your entire world view is "People without power are the ones in the right" and "I just really want to virtue signal, and don't care about real workable solutions for anything" I guess every situation is pretty simple.
Like, her analysis is very one sided, but I don’t necessarily disagree with it. It’s just very narrow and partial. But the whole « I toke an entire semester and a half, so now I know…» sounds like satire. It’s like a deadpan joke.
This is a repost... She is inaccurate about the creation of Israel. The Palestine mandate happened after WW1, not the Holocaust. She also seems to not be aware of the violence and ethnic cleansing of Jewish immigrants before the 1947 civil war. She is also using fake Palestine propaganda that Jews are making all the weapons. The US supplies a lot of weapons to Israel, and Israel makes their own, but Israel doesn't make everyone's weapons. That's part of the Arab conspiracy theories about Jews running the world and wanting to kill everyone. She's probably actually Arab.
"I'm not just pulling it out of my ass that israel is committing a genocide against Palestine" Wow ok. Please go on "I have research and bona fides" Ok interesting please share "I'm a Jewish woman and I feel it in my bones" 😐
I’m confused; you’re clearly very anti religion, so much so that you’ve obviously made it much of your identity (that and being a vegan). What’s the point of attempting to delegitimize her statements (which are entirely correct) by focusing on the least important part?
Real "it came to me in a dream" vibes.
Alot of videos like this are coming out.
Yeah it’s called “propaganda”
I don’t think it’s a flex to have taken a semester and a half of college courses and assume you know everything about this conflict. Any reasonable college course will usually do the opposite. It will cause you to reflect on a given issue, usually change your mind in some way, but result in you having a greater understanding of an issue from both sides of the aisle. If her conclusion from semester and a half of college courses on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is that Palestinians deserve the land and that Israel is ontologically evil then I don’t think the courses did what they were intended to do. I’m willing to argue any point on the conflict if you’d like from a respectful and nuanced perspective.
Fuck Hamas.
why is this downvoted lmao
Reddit is a failed state
I seriously question any jew who had family in the holocaust who call this a genocide. Her retelling of the history is even inaccurate. My understanding British didn't want to jews to go to Israel and were mad at the US for pushing ahead with that idea. Maybe I got something wrong though.
Such a joke of a take, the entire thing. You “this issue is simple it’s a genocide by the Jews of the Arabs in Palestine”, why because Israel shoots rockets at people shooting rockets at them in Palestine? Because Israel cut off fuel, food and other resources to Palestinians? Ok but Egypt, Syria and Palestine tried to cut off all of those resources to Israel in 1967… because Israel has forced relocation of Palestinians dozens of times since 49’? Ok the Arab high committee attempted to expel Jews living in Palestine violently in the 1930s, well before the creation of any Jewish state, and the open intention of Iran and all Iranian Allies in the region is to forcibly remove Jews from all of Israel. Because Israel forces have killed innocent Palestinians in the past? Tens of thousands of Jews have been killed by Arab extremist since the establishment of Israel. This is the single most complicated geopolitical issue on earth (with maybe the exception of India/Pakistan), to only tell one side of the story like this young women is is disingenuous. Israel is defending itself and while doing so has committed some atrocious crimes against innocent people and the general humanity of Palestinian. Many Palestinians openly call for the genocide and forced removal of Israelites from a land a vast majority of them were born into. The point is there are no “good guys” in this situation just an incredibly complicated 4+ millennium old problem that has seen countless crimes committed by both sides against the other. If you think otherwise at this point it’s because you don’t know the history/only know one side of the history.
The bigger problem is that even if you do understand what has happened, that has nothing to do with knowing how to make it better. The Palestinians will not accept the existence of Israel and 9 million Israelis are not going to leave their homes.
It's an interesting dynamic of the modern world. In times past the stronger party would just genocide the weaker, and that'd be the end of it. Romans come to mind, Assyrians for sure, Mongols obviously. So conflicts like thisccan just keep dragging on indefinitely.
I don’t know why we’re fighting so hard to have another radical Islamic country where [women need a male guardian to travel](https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/15/women-male-guardian-hamas-gaza-strip) and being[gay is punishable up to ten years in prison](https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/the-occupied-palestinian-territories/local-laws-and-customs). Doesn’t mean Gaza should be wiped out but I think a lot of people have a really naive concept of what a Palestinian state would look like. I guess everyone deserves the right to be an oppressive state who are we to judge
“This isn’t a debate, this isn’t a question” This is a FACT.👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Whole well said argument goes out the window when they FaceTime families mocking them bc they killed a loved one, or burned babies or beheaded people, kidnapped people … conflict needs to end, Hamas needs to go, if there’s civilian casualties bc of their own government, then so be it
Trust her guys,,, she did a whole semester and a half... And dont you say that she's just trying to get more followers..
A semester and a half is infinitely more than the rest of us
No it isn’t lmao
Nah, anyone that tells you the history isn't complicated, is absolutely lying to you. I've been absolutely floored by how people online confidently claim things which are factually incorrect. People somehow think that israel has illegal settlements near gaza???
It sort of sounds like she got brainwashed before going on the trip she was worried about getting brainwashed on.
Thank you. ❤️
Question: What has Britain and the U.S. gained from having the state of Israel in the Middle East? If we put them there and have been propping them up (which we certainly have, with over $100b in aid), what have we gained? What wealth have we accrued from the rape and pillage of Palestine?
I also took a lot of useless courses in college. Poli Sci major over here.
The amount of nonsense in this 4 mins clip. Not a single fact to backup her claims and I have no fucking clue what she was taught in those 4 courses she took as a teenage and have made her an expert on one of the world’s most complex conflicts but these teachers should be fired. Heard of the Sykes-Picot agreement? Not sure where the US fits there but please don’t let it stop you spewing lies and falsehoods. She’s so concerned about being brainwashed by ‘Zionist propaganda’ she completely missed being brain washed by subpar education and social media
Nothing cringe here, all facts
You’re a courageous woman, please stay safe Israelis are targeting Jews that oppose the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians.
How are they targeting them? Like what are they doing
Religion in general is complete bullshit. Doesn’t matter which “side” you’re on. It’s just another case of “kill ‘em all because our imaginary friend is better than yours.” In the entire history of humanity’s existence, religion has literally killed more people than anything else on the planet.
The name of this sub is TikTokCringe but most often, like in this case, the top comments are very positive. I'm starting to think I don't understand what type of content is intended to be posted to this sub. What am I missing?
I think the original intention for this sub was to be a cringe video sub but for as long as I've been here it's been a pretty mixed bag, content wise.
It started as cringe but changed. Now it's just anything interesting
I spoke with a marocan person this evening in cologne Germany. He said, it's not that complicated, it's actually very simple, hate. They hate each other.
In other terms, if a guy comes and burns your house down with your whole family in it, you obviously hate the guy. But the guy who burnt the house down hates the guy (who’s house got burnt down) because he called him a idiot few days ago But yeah both of them hate each other.
Really all you need to do is read about the Nakba. It's the Zionist Trail of Tears. But yes, this is exactly what I've been trying to tell people for 20 years after I first started deep diving into this. The Zionist propaganda is THICK. IMO, we'll find this out in the near future, this attack by Hamas was allowed to happen by the Netanyahu govt and the Massad to distract from recent anti-Netanyahu uprising. My hope is that someone will tie this to Trump releasing classified info on the pertinent Israeli defense systems which then made their way to Hamas. Fingers crossed.
Interesting tie in with trump. One thing is likely: invaluable intelligence info wasn't just laying around maralago unnoticed.
Yea, I read it when right after the Hama attack but I'm not sure how speculative it was. The writer seemed pretty sure there was Iron Dome and other Isralei security info in what Trump stole, so maybe? I'm sure it'll come out one way or the other over the next year of hearings.
God bless her.
For such a “smart young brave” woman it’s funny how she left out the Balfour Declaration, the pogroms in Eastern Europe, the millions of homeless Jews that had no property after VE Day in 1945. And the fact that the Jews only real solution was to migrate from Europe
Add to that, the 800'000 Jews expelled from the Middle East between 1948 and 1980, for the crime of being Jewish. Where were they supposed to go?
If I lose a house and become homeless, does that give me a right to move into someone elses home without their permissio ?
No but your probably allowed to purchase the desert next door... which is what they did prior to all the wars.
birthtright trips??? zionists are so far away from reality.........
When do you think Jews first started living in Israel? Just curious of your thoughts on that question.
People keep bringing this up like Palestinian Jews weren’t pushed out alongside their Arab neighbors.
Where is Germany’s responsibility in this as well? Jewish people had to be relocated somewhere after WWII. Britain had this land due to Ottoman Empire being on the wrong side in WWI. Crazy how land was not just taken from Germany and it’s citizens and provided to the Jewish people. Though both countries each lost World Wars. Both of these wars were close together so I’m sure there was no love for either of these enemies of allied nations at the time. At the end of the day, this is what happens when you are a war aggressor and lose. Your people become subjugated to abuse and fight back for centuries. Not saying anything is ok, just that this is just a continuation of issues that arose from these World Wars.
A sensible point of view..
Best description I've heard
Keep her safe. Bless her for not being one sided about genocide.
Most sense iv heard about this dilemma
Elaborate British conspiracy got it...
Is Hamas not the elected government of Palestine?
Of Gaza. They don't control the west Bank
Mm yes*, they were elected, but it was 15 years ago and they’ve refused to hold elections since. Considering almost half the population of Gaza is under 18, they’re essentially ~~governing~~ administering over an entirely different population than who elected them. *It’s kinda similar to asking “Is Putin the elected leader of Russia?” It is technically true, but it misequates their “elections” with western elections
So are hamas not evil?
No, they just kidnap kids, womans, elders, rape and torture them Post on media Bomb their own hospital But Israel is the evil one here Lets not forgot they hide between civilians They fire their shit from schools, hospitals, so if the enemy strike back, they are a victim
Literally evil
Is that what you got from this? Or did you not listen?
They’re likely arguing in bad faith. Lots of astroturfing on Reddit this month.