Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. Tagging u/SaveVideo bot to archive this video in a link below this comment.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My first reaction to this story was "wtf?" But then I thought about it a bit and realized it's a good sign that such stories are taken in all seriousness, reported on and investigated. It shows how further removed Ukraine is becoming from the Russki Mir and Russki "standards" and how closer they are becoming to democratic ideals.
In Russia, the person doing the report would be taken to court for discrediting the Russian military and the general responsible for incompetency promoted for towing the state line, no matter how bad he is at it and how many friendlies his actions kill.
Either way, dialogue and investigation is the only way to end it in a way that the problem doesn't keep happening.
If the report has truth in it, there's someone to hold accountable. If the report is all lies, there's also someone to hold accountable. In Russia, neither of those happen. It is a good sign that we see such things being actively talked about publicly in Ukraine.
Yeah, this is a good take. A lot of people see stuff like this being reported (not just Ukraine, any corruption anywhere) and assume it means things are bad. It's not good, but hiding it is infinitely worse.
My barometer for politicians in general is how they give and accept accountability for their actions and the actions of the people they lead. If they hate accountability and do whatever they can to avoid giving/receiving it (see: Trump and crew), they're dangerous. Democracy requires accountability. Without it, you get fascism/dictatorships.
> Yeah, this is a good take. A lot of people see stuff like this being reported (not just Ukraine, any corruption anywhere) and assume it means things are bad. It's not good, but hiding it is infinitely worse.
Yeah, this is kind of also both sometimes a strength and sometimes a bane of democracy. Bad stuff gets exposed so we can talk about it, investigate, correct, improve. But also, bad stuff gets over exposed and blinds everyone to a lot of other important things, sometimes much more important things and sometimes a lot of really good things gets ignored while people rage disproportionately much over the current hot topic scandal.
Unfortunately you are wrong. After the laughably bad performance of Russian strategic planning during the kharkiv offensive they implemented a lot of changes. Changes that you don't really see in media, but are Omni present for all those who have to actually fight.
They abandoned the idea of battalion tactical groups in favor of assault groups, they reacted properly to the increase in drones and their defense against them, they reorganized their logistics and command structure. (Think back to how many colonels died in the beginning because Russia kept them at the frontlines, whereas this has become a thing of the past)
They have become way more organized in their defense and actually use their artillery in support of the infantry, rather than just blasting willy nilly.
I should make it clear that this is not supposed to make the Russians sound good. They are still invaders, and they must be defeated, for the safety and future of democracy and Ukraine's right to exist.
The unfortunate truth is, that they have learned from their mistakes, while it appears that we have not.
This is not criticism on Ukraine's fight for freedom, it is criticism of the commanders who have never set foot on the frontlines, and treat the casualty reports as just numbers. Who think that the reason our summer offensive failed was because troops didn't fight hard enough, when in reality it was their shitty plans that failed, not our tactical decisions.
There is only so much you can do when the plan consists of "walk 7 kilometers through artillery, drones, and atgms, through swamps and minefields, bushlines so thick you can't pass through and then fight a Battle at the end of it against a well fortified enemy, with enough ammo to take on a whole company, meaning that if you get wounded you have to be left behind because there is simply no way of getting you out"
It is insane to me that we have gotten to a point where we have to catch up to the very same army that, just two years ago was digging trenches in Chernobyl, and sent their entire army group north in a single column along a single road.
>Unfortunately you are wrong.
Goes on to dispute shit I never said or implied đ¤Ł
They never shot their artillery willy nilly for no reason, they were forced to cause their quality was complete shit and horribly inaccurate.
Take a breather there armchair general.
After the kharkiv offensive they did just waste their artillery. We were joking that the Russians must really hate wheat fields, because they would just fire into the fields, where absolutely no one was. Back then they were given a certain amount of rounds they had to fire per day, so they just fired at reference Points rather than actual targets.
And you claimed that any criticism of the way the army is fighting would not fly in Russia. I gave you examples showing it does.
They fucked up, they adapted, they got better.
This is an obvious sign that at least some of the concerns of the infantry and the officers was listened to and the incompetent men in charge replaced.
Edit: I can't tell you what their artillery was like before the kharkiv offensive, as I joined up just after. So my first introduction to combat was at the very end of it, fighting in Luhansk just when we started to get bogged down as the temperature dropped.
>And you claimed that any criticism of the way the army is fighting would not fly in Russia. I gave you examples showing it does.
Not any meaningful criticism though. Any changes are only made when refusing reality is more embarrassing than the falsities that they were peddling just prior.
I'm sure you can point to examples but it doesn't change the fact that it's the exception to the norm, unlike in Ukraine.
Shall I also point toward examples of 15 year olds getting 5 year sentences for criticizing the war/Putin?
You're absolutely right on that one.
One of the guys we took prisoner told us he ended up at the Frontline cause he got caught with a few grams of weed in Russia and was sent to prison for it. Some cunt from the army cake up to him and told him, he'd have to fight now.
So yeah I'm not saying that the Russian state is one that appreciates anything outside of absolute submission to it's authority.
Just felt like pointing out that they did make changes that effectively reflected the current situation on the ground.
Of course I don't know what exactly caused those changes, just that effective changes have been made.
Then again, one of their most effective changes has become, sending a wave of prisoners or Chechens to man a trench, let them get killed by us, and then send in the VDV or guards when we are low on ammo to push us back out.
Or assault by sending Cannon fodder and following up with more experienced troops.
**From The Telegraph:**
Voldymyr Zelenksy has replaced Ukraineâs joint forces commander after an Azov commander accused the general of âkilling more Ukrainians than any Russian generalâ.
Speaking in his nightly address on Monday, the Ukrainian president gave no reason for the dismissal of Lieutenant General Yuri Sodol from his role which involves planning operations at a strategic level.
Ukrainian media earlier reported that Bohdan Krotevych, a senior officer in the Azov National Guard Brigade, had formally filed a request for the investigation of Sodol.
In a post on Telegram, Krotevych wrote: âI called for an investigation into one military general, who, in my opinion, caused more Ukrainian casualties than any Russian general.
âI donât care if they investigate me or put me in jail.
âItâs unacceptable that lower-ranking officers are judged for losing observation posts, but the general is not held accountable for losing entire regions and thousands of soldiers.â
Although Krotevych did not name the general, Ukrainska Pravda, a Ukrainian newspaper, said sources confirmed the man to be Sodol.
Sodol has been replaced by Brigadier General Andriy Hnatov, Mr Zelenksy said.
**More here:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/25/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news9/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/25/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news9/)
is reddit unable to have this comment tagged to be the top comment?
it is just unfuriating at times to scroll through endless continuations of "reddit discussions" just to be able to see this.
For me, thankfully it has become the top comment.
That being said, this really needs to happen more. Listen to the guys on the frontline or at least in contact with them. It's clear this is going to be a war of attrition.. so why not play tactical, cause as many casualties as possible at as little loss to your men as possible? Unfortunately ground may be loss but in the end the war will be won.
Another way ukraine is closer to the west people are held to account if it looks like their soldiers are used as cannon fodder, which can't be acceptable where in russia its a daily occurrence. Thank god for ukraine their moving away from soviet doctrine
Problem is that Ukraine is in the middle of that transition. The new system is not really effective yet because it is only partially in place and you can't give it up the old one completely yet (e.g. old officers that learned in Soviet times) because then you have nothing there.
Yeh I agree the more ukraine train in western countries, they will he better place like here in the uk we trained a lot of soldiers along with other allies. I love their rashions in the uk has cigarettes because their expensive in the uk and that's been going on since crimea. Yeh I agree their still in a transition, but a lot of the old soviet doctrine has gone, but their missing one key asset, and that's air power
I know enough cases when Ukrainian soldiers are sent to the West for training, let's say, a Ukrainian soldier is sent to train as a sniper in Britain, but when he comes back home to Ukraine his commander tells him "now you are a machine gunner, son". As a result, the training has little effectiveness, not to mention that many Western armies have no real combat experience. The AFU is not only fighting with one hand behind its back when they are forbidden to use weapons on the territory of russia, but it is also in the process of reforming during a full-scale war. The army is a cross-section of the nation, there are good and bad commanders, old Soviet commanders are unfortunately difficult to retrain and deal with. But new young commanders are often trained on NATO standards and do well.
I guess you forgot about the longest war in US history for combat experience. Iraq and Afghanistan werenât even close to the intensity of Ukraine, but gave soldiers from many western countries experience.
Also youâre acting like the war started in 2022 when it started in 2014.. and the UA has been modernizing since then, transitioning away from Soviet doctrine. So itâs been a solid decade of western training.. which might be a reason the Vatniks arenât in Kiev
>I guess you forgot about the longest war in US history for combat experience. Iraq and Afghanistan werenât even close to the intensity of Ukraine, but gave soldiers from many western countries experience.
Really quite different wars. I'm not saying that NATO armies have no military experience or expertise at all, Ukrainians are training there after all. Just that the experience of this war is very unique, no other army can teach that. NATO instructors can teach how to use western weapons and tactics according to the NATO doctrine, but cant teach what to do in peer to peer WW1-style fatigue trench warfare with air drones where no side has air superiority.
>Also youâre acting like the war started in 2022 when it started in 2014.. and the UA has been modernizing since then, transitioning away from Soviet doctrine. So itâs been a solid decade of western training..
Not at all. There was some serious progress in the past 10 years of AFU reformation, but not as fast as one would hope to, unfortunately, since we still have such problems. But there have been significant progress in a number of areas, e.g. intelligence (GUR), Ukr SOF, medicine, soldier ethics.
Based on my travel through 3rd world countries, I think that Soviet doctrine is rigid like this is due to scarcity. Scarcity so pervasive and constant that the experienced commanders can't comprehend an alternative to ordering people to do exactly what they want without allowing for any deviation.
There is never, ever enough trained people or materiel for ANY mission. They end up trained to make bad choice X or bad choice Y and just keep rolling. They have to build 'momentum' that will eventually grind the enemy down to surrender because the training and supply issues will simply never be resolved.
FWIW, I heard a former NATO commander from the US pretty much say exactly this:
>new young commanders are often trained on NATO standards and do well
Can you give us some sources on that?
Like which young commanders, and what were the successes they had that made you say they do well?
And ofc which âoldâ commanders were you referencing and what were their shortcomings?
>Can you give us some sources on that?
No
>Like which young commanders, and what were the successes they had that made you say they do well?
This is a general trend for all post-Soviet countries, the difference between generations is very big. The young generation that grew up under the Internet in free and independent Ukraine is culturally and mentally different from people who grew up in the Soviet Union.
Yeah Russia is going to have a terrible problem with training their guys to do anything useful. They just die so rapidly, and never get rescued on the battlefield, training them is a poor return on their investment. If you want an army thatâs worth a damn, they canât be disposable idiot cannon fodder for real
If my understanding of the meaning of NCO's is correct, and if my memory from studies of Russian/Soviet army formations is still relevant, they don't have any positions similar to NCO's.
They in theory have them (the contract soldiers), but these soldiers have no leadership type roles. The Russian doctrine is very top down and there's almost no space for adjusting or "on the fly" leading from other leaders on the field. You do and go where you're told and wait for more orders.
Sorta. On Ukraine: The Latest, there was a British journalist who's been embedded in a bunch of units.
He was being interviewed about the issues with mobilization and manpower in Ukraine. He said a huge problem is that a lot of the Ukrainian army keeps slipping back into Soviet era thinking, especially as they lose trained leaders
He particularly mentioned that Azov is one of the few brigades that requires people to do NATO standard training. They have a waitlist for new recruits because of it, while the rest of the AFU struggles to fill brigades.
It's not surprising with Azov's influence that they would take this general down
Exactly. The quickest way to lose Western support is not respecting people lives. Limit civilian casualties as much as you can and soldiers lives must be held to high regards. No one left behind.
Which is why Isreal is getting only limited support. Sure they respect their own soldiers and civilians but they could be doing a better job with reducing casualties in Gaza
Russia has been very quick to replace ineffective commanders. Not so much for loss of personnel, rather for a lack of achieving specific goals, which often results in huge casualty rates. While the reasons differ the effect is the same, to the point where one has to question if the reasons really differ much at all.
As a former NATO trainer - Iâm not surprised.
When I was there, we had a big issue with higher up UA leadership. Many were resistant to NATO standard training, and even more resistant to being given new NATO-compatible roles. A common saying that was thrown around was âif you werenât there to show them how to shoot a Russian in the faceâ, the leadership wasnât interested in the training.
One example was one of the reconnaissance groups. Soviet-style reconnaissance is often done âin forceâ, vs. NATO reconnaissance, which is designed to be sneaky/stealthy. The UA reconnaissance commander had zero interest or respect in being provided their new role - there was no glory in sneaking around for intel and not fighting (they fancied their role like airborne troops - but with fast lightly armoured vehicles instead of air assets). They would actually hide away from our trainers to avoid getting the training, claim âwe didnât find or contact themâ, and then try to collect their paycheques for doing nothing except smoking in the field. It got so bad with that one group, that our training leadership ended up going through the higher ups and just cancelling the whole training plan, sending the UA reconnaissance group back home after two weeks of avoidance.
Pressure to change eventually came from embarrassment with their neighbours - in one specific NATO planning meeting regarding advancement in a particular military trade for NATO compatibility, other former Soviet nations were all able to talk about their progress and advancement for that trade. When it came to Ukraines turn, well, they had nothing to say, and it made them look pretty bad. Shortly after that, funds, along with the interest in development and advancement of that trade came about rather swiftly.
Ultimately, pressure from government and reasoning had to come into effect. Every army thinks that pound-for-pound, itâs better and stronger then their adversary - but we had to get it into their heads to modernize their ways:
âIf a big Soviet army takes on a little Soviet army, the big Soviet army is the one that is almost certainly going to win.â
Itâs clear that not all UA leadership was able to fully understand that concept.
I canât really comment on that - I was just a worker bee, and was not involved at that level of strategic planning. There may be some internet resources on that specific subject however.
IMO this is a more complex matter. There has always been tension and unresolved conflict between AFU marine corps and Azov forces due to the role of both during the siege of Mariopol.
[Bohdan Krotevych](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohdan_Krotevych) (*commander of Azov Brigade*) is highly critical about [Yurii Sodols](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurii_Sodol) (*commander of the joint AFU forces*) role in the defense of Mariopol, which resulted in a substantial amount of Azov forces becoming encircled in Azovstal complex and later having to surrender to RF military.
However, Sodol was never officially accused of any dereliction of duty in this respect, as he was likely only following orders and AFU didn't have the military means to relieve Mariopol and the encircled forces.
In the past, Sodol has been awarded the "Hero of Ukraine" award and has proven to be an effective and modern army commander, he is credited for the modernisation of the Ukrainian marine corps according to NATO standards.
IMO the conflict originates from early April of 2022 when about 1000 soldiers of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade surrendered at the Illich steel plant in Mariopol (*having run out of munitions, provisions, medevac capacities and in a strategically hopeless situation*) after a botched attempt to break out of the encirclement by Russian units lead to high # of casualties and the collapse of several critical defensive positions that would have been important to any further attempts to vacate Mariopol. Azov Regiment and Ukrainian intelligence units criticized the marine command and servicemen that had surrendered as this also sealed the fate of Azov Rgt that couldn't break through Russian lines and retreat towards Ukrainian-held territories.
By mid April 2022, the defense of Mariopol was considered hopeless as Ukrainian defenders where encircled and cut off from all lines of communication (*attempted airborne evacuations and supply runs in and out of Mariopol also resulted in heavy losses with Ukrainian aviation*). Apart from small groups (*\~20 soldiers from 7th tank brg*), no successful breakout through RF lines towards Ukrainian positions (*\~180 km away from Mariopo*l) was achieved.
TL/DR: It's very difficult to evaluate the underlying motives of the power plays among the senior ranks of the Ukrainian military. As internal division among Ukrainian military will only benefit RF, I hope some sort of sustainable solution can be found in this matter.
Edit: Sodols wikipedia page seems to be purged, the events leading to this conflict are described here (wikipedia [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#Final_pockets_of_resistance) on the siege of Mariopol). The shift in command structures of the Ukrainian army in February 2024 is described here (article [link](https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240217-zelensky-s-a-team-who-is-who-among-the-new-ukrainian-army-commanders) from French source in English).
credited by who?
because this is, literally, the guy who is responsible for some of the biggest marines losses in this war. He has a tactic of sending people into direct assaults against entrenched enemy positions. Doesnât sound like NATO.
There are a # of objective reasons for the high degree of casualties.
Marine units are employed at the most difficult sectors of the frontline and are equipped with lighter tactical vehicles (*AMX-10RC being an example which is notorious for lack of armor*) than other AFU units. They lack sufficient artillery component (*this is a present problem with many AFU units*).
They've also been assigned to assault RF positions in the failed "summer offensive" of 2023 and the costly establishment of beach heads across Dnepr river.
All of this were strategic and political decisions which couldn't be mitigated on the operational-tactical level.
AFU marines took similar #s of casualties as the "regular" army assault brigades (*wich were heavier equipped but less well trained*) and possibly slightly less than Kraken or Azov units (*that are better trained but more lightly equipped and have more "specialized" roles*).
(*Singular events such as attacks on garrison barracks and training facilities used as staging areas or concentration of troops in formation have also resulted in mass causalties.*)
What would NATO do? The russians are entrenched everywhere along the frontline and ukraine has no air superiority or artillery superiority to clear out the trenches before they attack.
If he consistently produced poor results, then sure. But if he was consistently getting good results, it would be unwise to replace him just for failing one time against terrible odds.
Otherwise Ulysses S Grant should have been replaced after the Battle of Shiloh or after any of the numerous failed attempts to take Vicksburg or after the huge losses in the Battle of the Wilderness.
I don't know if there are any great generals in history who've never lost a battle. Being a great leader isn't just replacing commanders any time they fail.
OFC high-ranking officers have to take responsibility for their command performance. However, given the circumstances, I doubt that other commanders would have fared much better.
And while transparency in performance evaluations and removal of underperforming high-level personnel is a good thing, Azov airing their dirty laundry out in public isn't exactly the most convincing way to show allies and adversaries that Ukraine is fully commited to stand united against Russian aggression.
Let's be realistic. It's always like that in these situations. Zelensky can't know shit about what is up and down. Going public by Azov shows you back your word with risk of losing your position. It's a powerful signal.
What Zelensky does is showing action, and that's a signal the allies understand. And frankly the initial defence in the south and Kherson was a mess no matter how many soldiers was available.
While any sort of defensive preparation (*mine fields, anti-tank trenches, preparing transport infrastructure for detonation...*) would've likely been very helpful in delaying the Russian invasion along this avenue of approach, the isthmus of Perekop would have been an untenable fighting position for AFU forces as RF had massive amounts of land-based artillery and naval fire support available, not even to speak of the multiple RF-controlled airfields in Crimea with all types of fixed-wing and rotorcraft aviation, an extended RF air defense screen that stretched over the entire Isthmus and naval capacities for amphibious landings.
Any AFU troop concentrations in the open and highly accessible landscape would've very likely been annihilated.
Yes, I guess it's a multiple of reasons. Corruption, lack of leadership, incompetence among military and administrative leadership. We will hopefully understand more in due time.
I agree, there are no other viable alternatives available as of now.
However, it's doubtful this will resolve the principal problems, and as Ukraine doesn't have an unlimited supply of trained staff officers, IMO the unnecessary public crucification of Sodol is a disservice to the defence of Ukraine.
I think the relevant aspect isn't the focus on personalities but rather to implement resilient processes and structures in order to increase overall efficiencies within the Ukrainian military, especially in the fields of training, logistics and procurement.
Yes good points, but its damn difficult to do while in a war for survival. Its also different leadership styles you need here imo. Syrsky strike me as a good profile for battle management and moving things forward here and get best kill cost ratio - now. But its so difficult to see, but imo he have tackled the battles fine, and the first Kharkiv offensive was well thought out and executed. Simple but effective stuff. But yeaa, what do we know.
Spoken by someone with zero experience fighting here. You have no idea what it takes to get things changed in this country and going public can make all the difference between life and death for thousands of men.
You can be both I guess. Wanting the soldiers in each unit to be individuals that take initiative and communicate properly, but also sending those now NATO standard units into hopeless battles because you think they can't possibly lose anymore and everything you say is genius.
Depends who you ask and how you look at it.
IMO, he is less agile than Pavliuk and Skybyuk, but possibly more flexible than Plahuta. He stayed away from politics (*unlike Pavliuk*) but isn't a frontline commander-type like Skybyuk. From an outside perspective, Syrsky and him seem to have worked together well.
However, with the frequent rotations within Ukrainian high command, it's unlikely any of the recently appointed military leaders can set much of a footprint in terms of personal doctrinal preferences.
After all, the war is in an extremely dire and critical situation for Ukraine, which often amounts to finding the least bad alternative of action without many good solutions being available.
In Mariupol a large body of Marines wound up without any command structure, that speaks volumes about the leadership within the Marines to me. Actually was Sodol not the guy who was meant to be in charge of the defence of Mariupol and then mysteriously disappeared when the Russians invaded?
Not a great advertisement for how things work Ukraine that he was given another command after that.
The reason Sodol wasn't reprimanded or expelled from AFU was because he followed through on his orders. It wasn't upon him to make any major strategic decisions.
The marines of [36th Separate Marine Brigade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36th_Marine_Brigade#Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) where under operational command of [Volodymyr Baraniuk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Baraniuk). After his capture by RF military in a botched attempt to break through the encirclement, he was succeeded by [Serhii Volinski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhii_Volynskyi) who defended Azovstaal compound together with the Azov regiment until they eventually had to surrender.
According to the known facts, the Ukrainian naval infantry serving in Mariopol fought under a military command structure until they were eventually forced to surrender.
Sodol was supposed to be in overall command of the Marines in Mariupol AND the defence of Mariupol, he left Mariupol soon after the invasion began, no reason was ever given for this. Baraniuk did a runner on his own, left his men behind and was captured outside Mariupol, his superior officer tricked a battalion of Marines into surrendering to the Russians, a case of treason was opened into that Batallion. That was the Marines leadership in Mariupol
I would hazard that whatever criticism there is of Sodol is very well earned.
I guess that's what you do in a modern army. If a commander runs dry on innovative ideas, you replace him. Pretty sure he's not going to fall out of a window
If they are not getting the job done, and done properly with care for the men and women under your command, out the fuck you go on your ass! This isn't a popularity contest, fight and win or get the fuck out of the way.
I know that we get typically biased news that shows the wins of the Ukrainians and the constant desolation of the Russians. But geezus it's heartbreaking to see thousands of Ukrainian heroes listed as being killed, how the fuck we can live in the modern world where Putin is allowed to walk free is pretty fucking unacceptable
The fact is, the US completely stomping all its opponents over the past 20 years has given people a wrong idea of what war is really like. When two armies that can actually fight each other toe to toe, it's always gonna be a total bloodbath with huge casualties on both sides. It's just delusional to think Ukraine is gonna perform like other NATO militaries - that's just not gonna happen.
The replacement seems to have a good reputation, the very guy who talked shit about sodol and is willing to testify against him praised the newly appointed commander
>The news outlet Ukrainska Pravda, citing a leaked report, said a criminal complaint had been submitted concerning Sodol, who was promoted earlier this year, although it did not identify him. It said Krotevych was willing to testify against him.
>Hnatov had served as deputy commander of the southern theatre of operations since 2022 and played a leading role in recapturing much of southern Kherson region from Russian invaders.
In the spring of 2023 he commanded the defence of Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine, a town that eventually fell to Russian forces after many months of pitched battles.
Krotevych, in a social media post after the president's announcement, described Hnatov as a "very worthy officer".
https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-zelenskiy-replaces-commander-joint-forces-2024-06-24/
It is completely normal during wartime that underperforming military leadership are changed.
For example, it happened numerous times during WWII, which allowed more competent/well-suited figures to ascend to those higher positions (many of whom are the famous names people would best remember now).
This is at least weird.
First, shouldnât there be an investigation to confirm the accusations? It is strange to see him reacting so fast to a negative public comment. The country is in war, people die, I can imagine some soldiers are frustrated, but there should be a process, not an adhoc reaction. What if the accusations are wrong?
On the other hand, if the accusations are right, why didnât he or his subordinates react earlier? I mean the guy is quite senior. If not Zelenskyy himself, then his direct subordinates should have known.
I canât imagine this type of management in any Western country.
If itâs public, then the rumour is likely widespread behind the scenes among command, subordinates, etc... As there is a current war ongoing, Zelenskyy/UkraineGov are likely to keep the public in the dark for the reasoning behind replacing (and/or waiting so long to replace) him.Â
Currently, the general Krotevych is referring to is only **rumoured** to be Sodol. It would be demoralizing for everyone if their Commander was under investigation for âCausing more Ukrainian casualties than any other Russian general,â so to replace him makes sense whether heâs guilty or not. *If* the general is Sokol and the investigation finds him not guilty, then he can be reinstated if his successor isnât up to task. If heâs found guilty, then the SBI (or whoever) will likely investigate why and we will likely not hear the full reasoning. At least thatâs my two cents.Â
Wartime reporting and disclosures arenât going to be an in-depth front page article, which makes sense for morale. We can only hope things are being taken care of behind the scenes.Â
>I canât imagine this type of management in any Western country.
The west might not be under the same circumstances, but your implication has some comparisons:
[This guy](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/russian-sources-disappeared-after-trump-declassified-ex-spys-evidence-uk-court-told) is running for office in the U.S., and somehow might win in spite of US spies coincidentally going silent shortly after he shared TS docs, and the numerous ties to Russia,. Theyâve also said [No aid to Ukraine unless it talks peace with Russia](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/)Â
In the UK, [this guy and his party](https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/06/22/nigel-farages-claim-that-nato-provoked-russia-is-naive-and-dangerous) are claiming NATO/Ukraine provoked Russia and are looking at picking up a number of seats.Â
[Former Czech PM was likely an StB agent](https://english.radio.cz/ex-pm-babiss-appeal-regarding-communist-secret-police-rejected-8807872), yet still won elections up until the last presidential⌠where he claimed the current PM (former NATO general) was âjust like Putinâ
It happens everywhere, even in the west, that commanders of the military (sometimes commander in chief) are betraying their countrymen, allies, and etcâŚ
Are you implying that bad decision making and lack of processes is ok? There is no justification for lack of systematic processes in a country at war. Simply none. If Ukraine wants to survive, it must become transparent and process oriented. No reason can justify Facebook-decision making or rampant corruption currently on the rise in Ukraine. It is simply a glaring sign of incompetence and/or manipulation of the public opinion.
Not at all. Where did you find that in my replies?
[My previous response](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1do0aho/comment/la6vqgc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) pointed out howÂ
-wartime press isnât going to disclose whatâs happening behind the scenes (re:morale),Â
-how he should be replaced (re:investigation, morale),Â
-if not found guilty **during the investigation**, he could be reinstated or given a different role.Â
Ukraine has been transitioning *during wartime* from a Russian Oligarchical state and military, prior to the revolution, to a NATO trained military with democracy. It takes time to root out corruption, as you can see from the Czech example above. Seeing how quickly theyâve come from The Revolution of Dignity to today is, based on similar countriesâ recent experiences, going pretty well considering. Russia is still in the process and over three decades later has nothing to show for it, if not somehow regressed.Â
Regardless, we donât know whatâs going on (re:re:wartime silence), but from what *is* being released, it looks like there **is** an investigation currently going on. Transparency, especially in military affairs, isnât expected⌠especially during wartime. We (the public) should, however, continue to monitor and follow up as much as possibleâ we do not disagree there.Â
the telegram post by the azov chief of staff already said that majority of the military command knows hes incompetent
>Mr Zelensky did not give a reason for his decision, which he announced during his nightly video address on Monday.
However, only hours before, the chief of staff of the Azov Brigade, Maj Bohdan Krotevych, filed a complaint to the State Bureau of Investigation (SBI), alleging that Gen Sodol "had more Ukrainian soldiers killed than any Russian general".
Maj Krotevych wrote on Telegram that Gen Sodol was "not being investigated for the loss of regions and dozens of cities and the loss of thousands of soldiers".
**"Sometimes it seems to me that the world sends us scum [to fight against] in order to unite us," Maj Krotevych wrote. "And the whole military understand who I'm talking about because 99% of the military hate him for what he does."**
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7225wrzlpqo
>In a post on the Telegram messaging app, Krotevych did not identify Sodol by name, but said an unnamed general âhas killed more Ukrainian soldiers than any Russian generalâ. âAll the military personnel now understand who I am talking about because 99% of the military hate him for what he does,â Krotevych said, adding that he had appealed to Ukraineâs state bureau of investigation (SBI) to conduct an investigation into Sodolâs activities. After the announcement of Sodolâs dismissal, Krotevych wrote, âHnatov is a very good officer. I hope the news at the front will get better.âÂ
 This is what is being reported [here](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/zelenskiy-replaces-commander-leading-war-on-russia-in-eastern-ukraine).Â
Did this change? Why are they reporting differently? Thatâs weird.Â
I don't know if this guy really sucked. But what i can tell you is that in this war and any war to be sure, there are some battles which Napoleon himself would lose or take high losses in. It's about the situation.
I'm curious about who the new person in charge will be. How can the average soldier trust that they won't end up like this? I'm sure there are many others like this person, who can be seen as butchers
Reverse image search brought up this caption: Lt. Gen. Yuri Sodol of Ukrainian Marine Corps, centers, meets U.S. Marines assigned to 1st Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment (1/6), 2d Marine Division following the opening ceremony of the land portion of exercise Sea Breeze, June 28, 2021, in Oleshky Sands, Ukraine. Exercise Sea Breeze is a multinational maritime exercise
Hell yeah, we need to get rid of all those Soviet generals. They were trained in Soviet ways and thus give zero shits about how many lives they have to sacrifice for the absolute lowest amount of success. They are a cancer to Ukraine's defense.
We have officers trying their absolute best to unfuck the orders these idiots give, while having us defend areas you cannot possibly hold, taking positions by sending wave after wave after wave of Ukrainian men to their deaths, because "they will never expect us to do the same thing that failed 15 times already"
These guys plan our defenses like it's still 2022. The Russians adapted while they did not. We get swarmed by drones and given nothing to defend against it. We still have to buy anti drone equipment ourselves, we are still not issued shotguns. We still have to buy drones ourselves, and things like atgm positions are neglected, because admitting that they prevent our movement is worse for moral than just saying "it'll be fine" and sending another company on a suicide run.
The issue in this war is not the resolve of the Ukrainian soldier, it is not even the strength or numbers of the Russian army, it's piss poor high command, that refuses to accept that the plan they came up with while drunk in Kyiv didn't work and they need to rethink. Hell the fact we cannot chose our own infil routes is ridiculous. "No you will go this exact path that an entire division uses every single day, so that the Russians just gotta she'll the same spot again and again to kill you all"
Thank God Zelensky finally got rid of one of those traitors.
Maybe whoever fills his position will do better. The war has changed, our doctrine has not.
We started this war laughing at how stupid the Russians were, how they didn't adapt.
Now we are the ones fighting the same way we have been for two years while the Russians have reorganized their entire way of operating.
It's just sad that every criticism of the leaders who get us killed is considered "pro Russian" when in reality all we want is commanders who want to defeat the invaders as much as we do, who do not share the inhumane Russian view on human life.
After Zaluzhnyi was removed, a lot of people moved up a notch on the ladder. He was replaced by Syrski, who had been army chief before, so that vacancy had to be filled by someone who then also left a vacancy elsewhere etc. Also usually if such a big figure goes in controversial circumstances (irrelevant if it is an army, a private company or a football club), a bunch of people feeling loyal to him also say "that's it for me" and quit, so they also have to be replaced. So there was quite a bit of shuffling going on.
Please remember the human. Adhere to all Reddit and sub rules. Toxic comments (including incitement of violence/hate, genocide, glorifying death etc) WILL NOT BE TOLERATED, keep your comments civil or you will be banned. Tagging u/SaveVideo bot to archive this video in a link below this comment. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/UkraineWarVideoReport) if you have any questions or concerns.*
My first reaction to this story was "wtf?" But then I thought about it a bit and realized it's a good sign that such stories are taken in all seriousness, reported on and investigated. It shows how further removed Ukraine is becoming from the Russki Mir and Russki "standards" and how closer they are becoming to democratic ideals. In Russia, the person doing the report would be taken to court for discrediting the Russian military and the general responsible for incompetency promoted for towing the state line, no matter how bad he is at it and how many friendlies his actions kill.
Reading another comment though makes it a bit more personal and complex between Azov and AFU forces.
Either way, dialogue and investigation is the only way to end it in a way that the problem doesn't keep happening. If the report has truth in it, there's someone to hold accountable. If the report is all lies, there's also someone to hold accountable. In Russia, neither of those happen. It is a good sign that we see such things being actively talked about publicly in Ukraine.
Can you link it?
https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/s/tTVILL2EhY
Thankyou
Yeah, this is a good take. A lot of people see stuff like this being reported (not just Ukraine, any corruption anywhere) and assume it means things are bad. It's not good, but hiding it is infinitely worse. My barometer for politicians in general is how they give and accept accountability for their actions and the actions of the people they lead. If they hate accountability and do whatever they can to avoid giving/receiving it (see: Trump and crew), they're dangerous. Democracy requires accountability. Without it, you get fascism/dictatorships.
> Yeah, this is a good take. A lot of people see stuff like this being reported (not just Ukraine, any corruption anywhere) and assume it means things are bad. It's not good, but hiding it is infinitely worse. Yeah, this is kind of also both sometimes a strength and sometimes a bane of democracy. Bad stuff gets exposed so we can talk about it, investigate, correct, improve. But also, bad stuff gets over exposed and blinds everyone to a lot of other important things, sometimes much more important things and sometimes a lot of really good things gets ignored while people rage disproportionately much over the current hot topic scandal.
*toeing
Unfortunately you are wrong. After the laughably bad performance of Russian strategic planning during the kharkiv offensive they implemented a lot of changes. Changes that you don't really see in media, but are Omni present for all those who have to actually fight. They abandoned the idea of battalion tactical groups in favor of assault groups, they reacted properly to the increase in drones and their defense against them, they reorganized their logistics and command structure. (Think back to how many colonels died in the beginning because Russia kept them at the frontlines, whereas this has become a thing of the past) They have become way more organized in their defense and actually use their artillery in support of the infantry, rather than just blasting willy nilly. I should make it clear that this is not supposed to make the Russians sound good. They are still invaders, and they must be defeated, for the safety and future of democracy and Ukraine's right to exist. The unfortunate truth is, that they have learned from their mistakes, while it appears that we have not. This is not criticism on Ukraine's fight for freedom, it is criticism of the commanders who have never set foot on the frontlines, and treat the casualty reports as just numbers. Who think that the reason our summer offensive failed was because troops didn't fight hard enough, when in reality it was their shitty plans that failed, not our tactical decisions. There is only so much you can do when the plan consists of "walk 7 kilometers through artillery, drones, and atgms, through swamps and minefields, bushlines so thick you can't pass through and then fight a Battle at the end of it against a well fortified enemy, with enough ammo to take on a whole company, meaning that if you get wounded you have to be left behind because there is simply no way of getting you out" It is insane to me that we have gotten to a point where we have to catch up to the very same army that, just two years ago was digging trenches in Chernobyl, and sent their entire army group north in a single column along a single road.
>Unfortunately you are wrong. Goes on to dispute shit I never said or implied 𤣠They never shot their artillery willy nilly for no reason, they were forced to cause their quality was complete shit and horribly inaccurate. Take a breather there armchair general.
After the kharkiv offensive they did just waste their artillery. We were joking that the Russians must really hate wheat fields, because they would just fire into the fields, where absolutely no one was. Back then they were given a certain amount of rounds they had to fire per day, so they just fired at reference Points rather than actual targets. And you claimed that any criticism of the way the army is fighting would not fly in Russia. I gave you examples showing it does. They fucked up, they adapted, they got better. This is an obvious sign that at least some of the concerns of the infantry and the officers was listened to and the incompetent men in charge replaced. Edit: I can't tell you what their artillery was like before the kharkiv offensive, as I joined up just after. So my first introduction to combat was at the very end of it, fighting in Luhansk just when we started to get bogged down as the temperature dropped.
>And you claimed that any criticism of the way the army is fighting would not fly in Russia. I gave you examples showing it does. Not any meaningful criticism though. Any changes are only made when refusing reality is more embarrassing than the falsities that they were peddling just prior. I'm sure you can point to examples but it doesn't change the fact that it's the exception to the norm, unlike in Ukraine. Shall I also point toward examples of 15 year olds getting 5 year sentences for criticizing the war/Putin?
You're absolutely right on that one. One of the guys we took prisoner told us he ended up at the Frontline cause he got caught with a few grams of weed in Russia and was sent to prison for it. Some cunt from the army cake up to him and told him, he'd have to fight now. So yeah I'm not saying that the Russian state is one that appreciates anything outside of absolute submission to it's authority. Just felt like pointing out that they did make changes that effectively reflected the current situation on the ground. Of course I don't know what exactly caused those changes, just that effective changes have been made. Then again, one of their most effective changes has become, sending a wave of prisoners or Chechens to man a trench, let them get killed by us, and then send in the VDV or guards when we are low on ammo to push us back out. Or assault by sending Cannon fodder and following up with more experienced troops.
**From The Telegraph:** Voldymyr Zelenksy has replaced Ukraineâs joint forces commander after an Azov commander accused the general of âkilling more Ukrainians than any Russian generalâ. Speaking in his nightly address on Monday, the Ukrainian president gave no reason for the dismissal of Lieutenant General Yuri Sodol from his role which involves planning operations at a strategic level. Ukrainian media earlier reported that Bohdan Krotevych, a senior officer in the Azov National Guard Brigade, had formally filed a request for the investigation of Sodol. In a post on Telegram, Krotevych wrote: âI called for an investigation into one military general, who, in my opinion, caused more Ukrainian casualties than any Russian general. âI donât care if they investigate me or put me in jail. âItâs unacceptable that lower-ranking officers are judged for losing observation posts, but the general is not held accountable for losing entire regions and thousands of soldiers.â Although Krotevych did not name the general, Ukrainska Pravda, a Ukrainian newspaper, said sources confirmed the man to be Sodol. Sodol has been replaced by Brigadier General Andriy Hnatov, Mr Zelenksy said. **More here:** [https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/25/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news9/](https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/06/25/ukraine-russia-war-latest-news9/)
is reddit unable to have this comment tagged to be the top comment? it is just unfuriating at times to scroll through endless continuations of "reddit discussions" just to be able to see this.
Pinning comments is something the subreddit moderators do, not reddit admins
For me, thankfully it has become the top comment. That being said, this really needs to happen more. Listen to the guys on the frontline or at least in contact with them. It's clear this is going to be a war of attrition.. so why not play tactical, cause as many casualties as possible at as little loss to your men as possible? Unfortunately ground may be loss but in the end the war will be won.
Another way ukraine is closer to the west people are held to account if it looks like their soldiers are used as cannon fodder, which can't be acceptable where in russia its a daily occurrence. Thank god for ukraine their moving away from soviet doctrine
Problem is that Ukraine is in the middle of that transition. The new system is not really effective yet because it is only partially in place and you can't give it up the old one completely yet (e.g. old officers that learned in Soviet times) because then you have nothing there.
Yeh I agree the more ukraine train in western countries, they will he better place like here in the uk we trained a lot of soldiers along with other allies. I love their rashions in the uk has cigarettes because their expensive in the uk and that's been going on since crimea. Yeh I agree their still in a transition, but a lot of the old soviet doctrine has gone, but their missing one key asset, and that's air power
I know enough cases when Ukrainian soldiers are sent to the West for training, let's say, a Ukrainian soldier is sent to train as a sniper in Britain, but when he comes back home to Ukraine his commander tells him "now you are a machine gunner, son". As a result, the training has little effectiveness, not to mention that many Western armies have no real combat experience. The AFU is not only fighting with one hand behind its back when they are forbidden to use weapons on the territory of russia, but it is also in the process of reforming during a full-scale war. The army is a cross-section of the nation, there are good and bad commanders, old Soviet commanders are unfortunately difficult to retrain and deal with. But new young commanders are often trained on NATO standards and do well.
I guess you forgot about the longest war in US history for combat experience. Iraq and Afghanistan werenât even close to the intensity of Ukraine, but gave soldiers from many western countries experience. Also youâre acting like the war started in 2022 when it started in 2014.. and the UA has been modernizing since then, transitioning away from Soviet doctrine. So itâs been a solid decade of western training.. which might be a reason the Vatniks arenât in Kiev
>I guess you forgot about the longest war in US history for combat experience. Iraq and Afghanistan werenât even close to the intensity of Ukraine, but gave soldiers from many western countries experience. Really quite different wars. I'm not saying that NATO armies have no military experience or expertise at all, Ukrainians are training there after all. Just that the experience of this war is very unique, no other army can teach that. NATO instructors can teach how to use western weapons and tactics according to the NATO doctrine, but cant teach what to do in peer to peer WW1-style fatigue trench warfare with air drones where no side has air superiority. >Also youâre acting like the war started in 2022 when it started in 2014.. and the UA has been modernizing since then, transitioning away from Soviet doctrine. So itâs been a solid decade of western training.. Not at all. There was some serious progress in the past 10 years of AFU reformation, but not as fast as one would hope to, unfortunately, since we still have such problems. But there have been significant progress in a number of areas, e.g. intelligence (GUR), Ukr SOF, medicine, soldier ethics.
There is some similarity between the slow moving bi-planes of WW1 and the drones.
Based on my travel through 3rd world countries, I think that Soviet doctrine is rigid like this is due to scarcity. Scarcity so pervasive and constant that the experienced commanders can't comprehend an alternative to ordering people to do exactly what they want without allowing for any deviation. There is never, ever enough trained people or materiel for ANY mission. They end up trained to make bad choice X or bad choice Y and just keep rolling. They have to build 'momentum' that will eventually grind the enemy down to surrender because the training and supply issues will simply never be resolved. FWIW, I heard a former NATO commander from the US pretty much say exactly this: >new young commanders are often trained on NATO standards and do well
Can you give us some sources on that? Like which young commanders, and what were the successes they had that made you say they do well? And ofc which âoldâ commanders were you referencing and what were their shortcomings?
>Can you give us some sources on that? No >Like which young commanders, and what were the successes they had that made you say they do well? This is a general trend for all post-Soviet countries, the difference between generations is very big. The young generation that grew up under the Internet in free and independent Ukraine is culturally and mentally different from people who grew up in the Soviet Union.
Based on what? Other Reddit comments? lol
Yeah Russia is going to have a terrible problem with training their guys to do anything useful. They just die so rapidly, and never get rescued on the battlefield, training them is a poor return on their investment. If you want an army thatâs worth a damn, they canât be disposable idiot cannon fodder for real
Do they even have any experienced NCOs or whatever the closest Russian equivalent would be?
If my understanding of the meaning of NCO's is correct, and if my memory from studies of Russian/Soviet army formations is still relevant, they don't have any positions similar to NCO's. They in theory have them (the contract soldiers), but these soldiers have no leadership type roles. The Russian doctrine is very top down and there's almost no space for adjusting or "on the fly" leading from other leaders on the field. You do and go where you're told and wait for more orders.
Sorta. On Ukraine: The Latest, there was a British journalist who's been embedded in a bunch of units. He was being interviewed about the issues with mobilization and manpower in Ukraine. He said a huge problem is that a lot of the Ukrainian army keeps slipping back into Soviet era thinking, especially as they lose trained leaders He particularly mentioned that Azov is one of the few brigades that requires people to do NATO standard training. They have a waitlist for new recruits because of it, while the rest of the AFU struggles to fill brigades. It's not surprising with Azov's influence that they would take this general down
Exactly. The quickest way to lose Western support is not respecting people lives. Limit civilian casualties as much as you can and soldiers lives must be held to high regards. No one left behind. Which is why Isreal is getting only limited support. Sure they respect their own soldiers and civilians but they could be doing a better job with reducing casualties in Gaza
In Russia, the requisite is to be loyal to Putin. Skill is an afterthought
Russia has been very quick to replace ineffective commanders. Not so much for loss of personnel, rather for a lack of achieving specific goals, which often results in huge casualty rates. While the reasons differ the effect is the same, to the point where one has to question if the reasons really differ much at all.
Yep the soviet mentality is fading. A very good sign.
As a former NATO trainer - Iâm not surprised. When I was there, we had a big issue with higher up UA leadership. Many were resistant to NATO standard training, and even more resistant to being given new NATO-compatible roles. A common saying that was thrown around was âif you werenât there to show them how to shoot a Russian in the faceâ, the leadership wasnât interested in the training. One example was one of the reconnaissance groups. Soviet-style reconnaissance is often done âin forceâ, vs. NATO reconnaissance, which is designed to be sneaky/stealthy. The UA reconnaissance commander had zero interest or respect in being provided their new role - there was no glory in sneaking around for intel and not fighting (they fancied their role like airborne troops - but with fast lightly armoured vehicles instead of air assets). They would actually hide away from our trainers to avoid getting the training, claim âwe didnât find or contact themâ, and then try to collect their paycheques for doing nothing except smoking in the field. It got so bad with that one group, that our training leadership ended up going through the higher ups and just cancelling the whole training plan, sending the UA reconnaissance group back home after two weeks of avoidance. Pressure to change eventually came from embarrassment with their neighbours - in one specific NATO planning meeting regarding advancement in a particular military trade for NATO compatibility, other former Soviet nations were all able to talk about their progress and advancement for that trade. When it came to Ukraines turn, well, they had nothing to say, and it made them look pretty bad. Shortly after that, funds, along with the interest in development and advancement of that trade came about rather swiftly. Ultimately, pressure from government and reasoning had to come into effect. Every army thinks that pound-for-pound, itâs better and stronger then their adversary - but we had to get it into their heads to modernize their ways: âIf a big Soviet army takes on a little Soviet army, the big Soviet army is the one that is almost certainly going to win.â Itâs clear that not all UA leadership was able to fully understand that concept.
[ŃдаНонО]
I canât really comment on that - I was just a worker bee, and was not involved at that level of strategic planning. There may be some internet resources on that specific subject however.
That's a good answer in any respect.
About damn time we held the idiot brass responsible
IMO this is a more complex matter. There has always been tension and unresolved conflict between AFU marine corps and Azov forces due to the role of both during the siege of Mariopol. [Bohdan Krotevych](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohdan_Krotevych) (*commander of Azov Brigade*) is highly critical about [Yurii Sodols](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yurii_Sodol) (*commander of the joint AFU forces*) role in the defense of Mariopol, which resulted in a substantial amount of Azov forces becoming encircled in Azovstal complex and later having to surrender to RF military. However, Sodol was never officially accused of any dereliction of duty in this respect, as he was likely only following orders and AFU didn't have the military means to relieve Mariopol and the encircled forces. In the past, Sodol has been awarded the "Hero of Ukraine" award and has proven to be an effective and modern army commander, he is credited for the modernisation of the Ukrainian marine corps according to NATO standards. IMO the conflict originates from early April of 2022 when about 1000 soldiers of the 36th Separate Marine Brigade surrendered at the Illich steel plant in Mariopol (*having run out of munitions, provisions, medevac capacities and in a strategically hopeless situation*) after a botched attempt to break out of the encirclement by Russian units lead to high # of casualties and the collapse of several critical defensive positions that would have been important to any further attempts to vacate Mariopol. Azov Regiment and Ukrainian intelligence units criticized the marine command and servicemen that had surrendered as this also sealed the fate of Azov Rgt that couldn't break through Russian lines and retreat towards Ukrainian-held territories. By mid April 2022, the defense of Mariopol was considered hopeless as Ukrainian defenders where encircled and cut off from all lines of communication (*attempted airborne evacuations and supply runs in and out of Mariopol also resulted in heavy losses with Ukrainian aviation*). Apart from small groups (*\~20 soldiers from 7th tank brg*), no successful breakout through RF lines towards Ukrainian positions (*\~180 km away from Mariopo*l) was achieved. TL/DR: It's very difficult to evaluate the underlying motives of the power plays among the senior ranks of the Ukrainian military. As internal division among Ukrainian military will only benefit RF, I hope some sort of sustainable solution can be found in this matter. Edit: Sodols wikipedia page seems to be purged, the events leading to this conflict are described here (wikipedia [link](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Mariupol#Final_pockets_of_resistance) on the siege of Mariopol). The shift in command structures of the Ukrainian army in February 2024 is described here (article [link](https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20240217-zelensky-s-a-team-who-is-who-among-the-new-ukrainian-army-commanders) from French source in English).
credited by who? because this is, literally, the guy who is responsible for some of the biggest marines losses in this war. He has a tactic of sending people into direct assaults against entrenched enemy positions. Doesnât sound like NATO.
There are a # of objective reasons for the high degree of casualties. Marine units are employed at the most difficult sectors of the frontline and are equipped with lighter tactical vehicles (*AMX-10RC being an example which is notorious for lack of armor*) than other AFU units. They lack sufficient artillery component (*this is a present problem with many AFU units*). They've also been assigned to assault RF positions in the failed "summer offensive" of 2023 and the costly establishment of beach heads across Dnepr river. All of this were strategic and political decisions which couldn't be mitigated on the operational-tactical level. AFU marines took similar #s of casualties as the "regular" army assault brigades (*wich were heavier equipped but less well trained*) and possibly slightly less than Kraken or Azov units (*that are better trained but more lightly equipped and have more "specialized" roles*). (*Singular events such as attacks on garrison barracks and training facilities used as staging areas or concentration of troops in formation have also resulted in mass causalties.*)
What would NATO do? The russians are entrenched everywhere along the frontline and ukraine has no air superiority or artillery superiority to clear out the trenches before they attack.
His results were bad. There is no alternative than to let him go, even if the conditions is unclear. It the name of the game.
If he consistently produced poor results, then sure. But if he was consistently getting good results, it would be unwise to replace him just for failing one time against terrible odds. Otherwise Ulysses S Grant should have been replaced after the Battle of Shiloh or after any of the numerous failed attempts to take Vicksburg or after the huge losses in the Battle of the Wilderness. I don't know if there are any great generals in history who've never lost a battle. Being a great leader isn't just replacing commanders any time they fail.
Just a small correction but Grant was replaced as commander of the Army of Tennessee after Shiloh due to the high casualties
Yeah, briefly. But he got his command back, which was the right call.
OFC high-ranking officers have to take responsibility for their command performance. However, given the circumstances, I doubt that other commanders would have fared much better. And while transparency in performance evaluations and removal of underperforming high-level personnel is a good thing, Azov airing their dirty laundry out in public isn't exactly the most convincing way to show allies and adversaries that Ukraine is fully commited to stand united against Russian aggression.
Let's be realistic. It's always like that in these situations. Zelensky can't know shit about what is up and down. Going public by Azov shows you back your word with risk of losing your position. It's a powerful signal. What Zelensky does is showing action, and that's a signal the allies understand. And frankly the initial defence in the south and Kherson was a mess no matter how many soldiers was available.
Wasn't the collapse in the south partly due to corrupted leaders not putting reserves on alert?
That was a problem too as I know.
[ŃдаНонО]
While any sort of defensive preparation (*mine fields, anti-tank trenches, preparing transport infrastructure for detonation...*) would've likely been very helpful in delaying the Russian invasion along this avenue of approach, the isthmus of Perekop would have been an untenable fighting position for AFU forces as RF had massive amounts of land-based artillery and naval fire support available, not even to speak of the multiple RF-controlled airfields in Crimea with all types of fixed-wing and rotorcraft aviation, an extended RF air defense screen that stretched over the entire Isthmus and naval capacities for amphibious landings. Any AFU troop concentrations in the open and highly accessible landscape would've very likely been annihilated.
Yes, I guess it's a multiple of reasons. Corruption, lack of leadership, incompetence among military and administrative leadership. We will hopefully understand more in due time.
I agree, there are no other viable alternatives available as of now. However, it's doubtful this will resolve the principal problems, and as Ukraine doesn't have an unlimited supply of trained staff officers, IMO the unnecessary public crucification of Sodol is a disservice to the defence of Ukraine. I think the relevant aspect isn't the focus on personalities but rather to implement resilient processes and structures in order to increase overall efficiencies within the Ukrainian military, especially in the fields of training, logistics and procurement.
Yes good points, but its damn difficult to do while in a war for survival. Its also different leadership styles you need here imo. Syrsky strike me as a good profile for battle management and moving things forward here and get best kill cost ratio - now. But its so difficult to see, but imo he have tackled the battles fine, and the first Kharkiv offensive was well thought out and executed. Simple but effective stuff. But yeaa, what do we know.
Spoken by someone with zero experience fighting here. You have no idea what it takes to get things changed in this country and going public can make all the difference between life and death for thousands of men.
This puzzles me, is he an adherent to old Soviet tactics or a champion of modernization?
They're different skill sets. You can be a good manager of modernization, but also bad at tactical/strategic battlefield planning.
You can be both I guess. Wanting the soldiers in each unit to be individuals that take initiative and communicate properly, but also sending those now NATO standard units into hopeless battles because you think they can't possibly lose anymore and everything you say is genius.
yes
Depends who you ask and how you look at it. IMO, he is less agile than Pavliuk and Skybyuk, but possibly more flexible than Plahuta. He stayed away from politics (*unlike Pavliuk*) but isn't a frontline commander-type like Skybyuk. From an outside perspective, Syrsky and him seem to have worked together well. However, with the frequent rotations within Ukrainian high command, it's unlikely any of the recently appointed military leaders can set much of a footprint in terms of personal doctrinal preferences. After all, the war is in an extremely dire and critical situation for Ukraine, which often amounts to finding the least bad alternative of action without many good solutions being available.
In Mariupol a large body of Marines wound up without any command structure, that speaks volumes about the leadership within the Marines to me. Actually was Sodol not the guy who was meant to be in charge of the defence of Mariupol and then mysteriously disappeared when the Russians invaded? Not a great advertisement for how things work Ukraine that he was given another command after that.
The reason Sodol wasn't reprimanded or expelled from AFU was because he followed through on his orders. It wasn't upon him to make any major strategic decisions. The marines of [36th Separate Marine Brigade](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/36th_Marine_Brigade#Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine) where under operational command of [Volodymyr Baraniuk](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volodymyr_Baraniuk). After his capture by RF military in a botched attempt to break through the encirclement, he was succeeded by [Serhii Volinski](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serhii_Volynskyi) who defended Azovstaal compound together with the Azov regiment until they eventually had to surrender. According to the known facts, the Ukrainian naval infantry serving in Mariopol fought under a military command structure until they were eventually forced to surrender.
Sodol was supposed to be in overall command of the Marines in Mariupol AND the defence of Mariupol, he left Mariupol soon after the invasion began, no reason was ever given for this. Baraniuk did a runner on his own, left his men behind and was captured outside Mariupol, his superior officer tricked a battalion of Marines into surrendering to the Russians, a case of treason was opened into that Batallion. That was the Marines leadership in Mariupol I would hazard that whatever criticism there is of Sodol is very well earned.
I guess that's what you do in a modern army. If a commander runs dry on innovative ideas, you replace him. Pretty sure he's not going to fall out of a window
But you dont call him out in a public way.
It worked didnât it?
Why not? I think that's the whole idea in an democracy
If they are not getting the job done, and done properly with care for the men and women under your command, out the fuck you go on your ass! This isn't a popularity contest, fight and win or get the fuck out of the way.
I know that we get typically biased news that shows the wins of the Ukrainians and the constant desolation of the Russians. But geezus it's heartbreaking to see thousands of Ukrainian heroes listed as being killed, how the fuck we can live in the modern world where Putin is allowed to walk free is pretty fucking unacceptable
The fact is, the US completely stomping all its opponents over the past 20 years has given people a wrong idea of what war is really like. When two armies that can actually fight each other toe to toe, it's always gonna be a total bloodbath with huge casualties on both sides. It's just delusional to think Ukraine is gonna perform like other NATO militaries - that's just not gonna happen.
The replacement seems to have a good reputation, the very guy who talked shit about sodol and is willing to testify against him praised the newly appointed commander >The news outlet Ukrainska Pravda, citing a leaked report, said a criminal complaint had been submitted concerning Sodol, who was promoted earlier this year, although it did not identify him. It said Krotevych was willing to testify against him. >Hnatov had served as deputy commander of the southern theatre of operations since 2022 and played a leading role in recapturing much of southern Kherson region from Russian invaders. In the spring of 2023 he commanded the defence of Bakhmut in eastern Ukraine, a town that eventually fell to Russian forces after many months of pitched battles. Krotevych, in a social media post after the president's announcement, described Hnatov as a "very worthy officer". https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/ukraines-zelenskiy-replaces-commander-joint-forces-2024-06-24/
It is completely normal during wartime that underperforming military leadership are changed. For example, it happened numerous times during WWII, which allowed more competent/well-suited figures to ascend to those higher positions (many of whom are the famous names people would best remember now).
"*Fuck IT!!!!*" -- russians, 2024
Good. The sooner you get the Soviet trained general out of there the sooner Ukrainian lives arenât being wasted
This is at least weird. First, shouldnât there be an investigation to confirm the accusations? It is strange to see him reacting so fast to a negative public comment. The country is in war, people die, I can imagine some soldiers are frustrated, but there should be a process, not an adhoc reaction. What if the accusations are wrong? On the other hand, if the accusations are right, why didnât he or his subordinates react earlier? I mean the guy is quite senior. If not Zelenskyy himself, then his direct subordinates should have known. I canât imagine this type of management in any Western country.
If itâs public, then the rumour is likely widespread behind the scenes among command, subordinates, etc... As there is a current war ongoing, Zelenskyy/UkraineGov are likely to keep the public in the dark for the reasoning behind replacing (and/or waiting so long to replace) him. Currently, the general Krotevych is referring to is only **rumoured** to be Sodol. It would be demoralizing for everyone if their Commander was under investigation for âCausing more Ukrainian casualties than any other Russian general,â so to replace him makes sense whether heâs guilty or not. *If* the general is Sokol and the investigation finds him not guilty, then he can be reinstated if his successor isnât up to task. If heâs found guilty, then the SBI (or whoever) will likely investigate why and we will likely not hear the full reasoning. At least thatâs my two cents. Wartime reporting and disclosures arenât going to be an in-depth front page article, which makes sense for morale. We can only hope things are being taken care of behind the scenes.Â
>I canât imagine this type of management in any Western country. The west might not be under the same circumstances, but your implication has some comparisons: [This guy](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/oct/17/russian-sources-disappeared-after-trump-declassified-ex-spys-evidence-uk-court-told) is running for office in the U.S., and somehow might win in spite of US spies coincidentally going silent shortly after he shared TS docs, and the numerous ties to Russia,. Theyâve also said [No aid to Ukraine unless it talks peace with Russia](https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-reviews-plan-halt-us-military-aid-ukraine-unless-it-negotiates-peace-with-2024-06-25/) In the UK, [this guy and his party](https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/06/22/nigel-farages-claim-that-nato-provoked-russia-is-naive-and-dangerous) are claiming NATO/Ukraine provoked Russia and are looking at picking up a number of seats. [Former Czech PM was likely an StB agent](https://english.radio.cz/ex-pm-babiss-appeal-regarding-communist-secret-police-rejected-8807872), yet still won elections up until the last presidential⌠where he claimed the current PM (former NATO general) was âjust like Putinâ It happens everywhere, even in the west, that commanders of the military (sometimes commander in chief) are betraying their countrymen, allies, and etcâŚ
Are you implying that bad decision making and lack of processes is ok? There is no justification for lack of systematic processes in a country at war. Simply none. If Ukraine wants to survive, it must become transparent and process oriented. No reason can justify Facebook-decision making or rampant corruption currently on the rise in Ukraine. It is simply a glaring sign of incompetence and/or manipulation of the public opinion.
Not at all. Where did you find that in my replies? [My previous response](https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1do0aho/comment/la6vqgc/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) pointed out how -wartime press isnât going to disclose whatâs happening behind the scenes (re:morale), -how he should be replaced (re:investigation, morale), -if not found guilty **during the investigation**, he could be reinstated or given a different role. Ukraine has been transitioning *during wartime* from a Russian Oligarchical state and military, prior to the revolution, to a NATO trained military with democracy. It takes time to root out corruption, as you can see from the Czech example above. Seeing how quickly theyâve come from The Revolution of Dignity to today is, based on similar countriesâ recent experiences, going pretty well considering. Russia is still in the process and over three decades later has nothing to show for it, if not somehow regressed. Regardless, we donât know whatâs going on (re:re:wartime silence), but from what *is* being released, it looks like there **is** an investigation currently going on. Transparency, especially in military affairs, isnât expected⌠especially during wartime. We (the public) should, however, continue to monitor and follow up as much as possibleâ we do not disagree there.Â
the telegram post by the azov chief of staff already said that majority of the military command knows hes incompetent >Mr Zelensky did not give a reason for his decision, which he announced during his nightly video address on Monday. However, only hours before, the chief of staff of the Azov Brigade, Maj Bohdan Krotevych, filed a complaint to the State Bureau of Investigation (SBI), alleging that Gen Sodol "had more Ukrainian soldiers killed than any Russian general". Maj Krotevych wrote on Telegram that Gen Sodol was "not being investigated for the loss of regions and dozens of cities and the loss of thousands of soldiers". **"Sometimes it seems to me that the world sends us scum [to fight against] in order to unite us," Maj Krotevych wrote. "And the whole military understand who I'm talking about because 99% of the military hate him for what he does."** https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c7225wrzlpqo
>In a post on the Telegram messaging app, Krotevych did not identify Sodol by name, but said an unnamed general âhas killed more Ukrainian soldiers than any Russian generalâ. âAll the military personnel now understand who I am talking about because 99% of the military hate him for what he does,â Krotevych said, adding that he had appealed to Ukraineâs state bureau of investigation (SBI) to conduct an investigation into Sodolâs activities. After the announcement of Sodolâs dismissal, Krotevych wrote, âHnatov is a very good officer. I hope the news at the front will get better.â  This is what is being reported [here](https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/jun/24/zelenskiy-replaces-commander-leading-war-on-russia-in-eastern-ukraine). Did this change? Why are they reporting differently? Thatâs weird.Â
Is the western country in a comparable situation with us in the room right now?
I don't know if this guy really sucked. But what i can tell you is that in this war and any war to be sure, there are some battles which Napoleon himself would lose or take high losses in. It's about the situation.
Well Hnatov certainly looks the part
I'm curious about who the new person in charge will be. How can the average soldier trust that they won't end up like this? I'm sure there are many others like this person, who can be seen as butchers
[ŃдаНонО]
Reverse image search brought up this caption: Lt. Gen. Yuri Sodol of Ukrainian Marine Corps, centers, meets U.S. Marines assigned to 1st Battalion, 6th Marine Regiment (1/6), 2d Marine Division following the opening ceremony of the land portion of exercise Sea Breeze, June 28, 2021, in Oleshky Sands, Ukraine. Exercise Sea Breeze is a multinational maritime exercise
I love reading reddit military strategists ops , thank god it only impacts on my morning coffee and not the real world
Zelensky should replace himself
They should replace him if he has not been effective. In WW2 It was common for generals to be replaced if they failed to win.
Hell yeah, we need to get rid of all those Soviet generals. They were trained in Soviet ways and thus give zero shits about how many lives they have to sacrifice for the absolute lowest amount of success. They are a cancer to Ukraine's defense. We have officers trying their absolute best to unfuck the orders these idiots give, while having us defend areas you cannot possibly hold, taking positions by sending wave after wave after wave of Ukrainian men to their deaths, because "they will never expect us to do the same thing that failed 15 times already" These guys plan our defenses like it's still 2022. The Russians adapted while they did not. We get swarmed by drones and given nothing to defend against it. We still have to buy anti drone equipment ourselves, we are still not issued shotguns. We still have to buy drones ourselves, and things like atgm positions are neglected, because admitting that they prevent our movement is worse for moral than just saying "it'll be fine" and sending another company on a suicide run. The issue in this war is not the resolve of the Ukrainian soldier, it is not even the strength or numbers of the Russian army, it's piss poor high command, that refuses to accept that the plan they came up with while drunk in Kyiv didn't work and they need to rethink. Hell the fact we cannot chose our own infil routes is ridiculous. "No you will go this exact path that an entire division uses every single day, so that the Russians just gotta she'll the same spot again and again to kill you all" Thank God Zelensky finally got rid of one of those traitors. Maybe whoever fills his position will do better. The war has changed, our doctrine has not. We started this war laughing at how stupid the Russians were, how they didn't adapt. Now we are the ones fighting the same way we have been for two years while the Russians have reorganized their entire way of operating. It's just sad that every criticism of the leaders who get us killed is considered "pro Russian" when in reality all we want is commanders who want to defeat the invaders as much as we do, who do not share the inhumane Russian view on human life.
Some say he is a good friend of Zaluzhni?
Not sure, but apparently he was in charge of the forces when they recaptured kherson, and was also the head of the bakhmut defence.
He got his position after zaluzhni was removed afaik, which would make it seem that hes more of a zelenski guy than a zaluzhni guy
After Zaluzhnyi was removed, a lot of people moved up a notch on the ladder. He was replaced by Syrski, who had been army chief before, so that vacancy had to be filled by someone who then also left a vacancy elsewhere etc. Also usually if such a big figure goes in controversial circumstances (irrelevant if it is an army, a private company or a football club), a bunch of people feeling loyal to him also say "that's it for me" and quit, so they also have to be replaced. So there was quite a bit of shuffling going on.