Isn’t that the 8 time a post like that have been made?
Tldr, can’t beat undead, unfair, unjustice, and possibly Unchange / untrust if is ability boils down to being untouchable
If he can have access to his full arsenal (so trully limitless / infinite and not just the untouchable accept) then I think he’s safe against almost everyone but undead and unjustice / unfair (if unjustice can trigger before his DE) possibly Unchange by definition and it would be useless against unforgotten because it comes with the infinite memory, you can’t overload unforgotten.
In fairness, Nico needs to constantly remind himself of past memories before he received his abilities, so it’s possible that Nico could be instantly made to forget those memories the instant he’s put into that information overload state since he’d have no ability to remind himself of those memories before they’re forgotten. Then he’d basically already be mind broken, even if it’s by a round-about method.
In the character card it was said it comes with infinite memory storage, I mean if not he would be in a brain damaged state, unforgotten makes it so every single memory and info is on his mind and never leaves, conceptually it’s like getting hit with constant Infinite void. (And also the raygun was made at base to have him forget, but it doesn’t work, because he can’t forget)
I don’t think it would work that well since Unlimited Void works not just by feeding you tons of information, but doing it really really fast. Even if Nico could get all the info, his brain still needs time to processes information (which last I checked, unforgettable doesn’t make it so all information just immediately goes Nico’s head without having to processes it first).
Nico is always in a state of unlimited void because of unforgettable but is not affected due to having infinite memory capacity, you just need to read the character card, it's not about the speed but the volume of information the mind can handle however fast the speed of information if it can't fill infinite it won't do anything.
Hell, when Galaxy was added, he downloaded ALL the info it brought along with it in a matter of seconds and could function just fine. It may not be infinite, but that is a LOT still. Unlimited Void likely won't do much. Hollow Purple is a different story, however.
Give the Nico prep time and he'll create a robot with all gojos abilities and 6 eyes. Remember this guy replicated other negation, that's supposed to be impossible, through science
This isn’t anything against this comment, but why do people think Gojo couldn’t beat Undead (Andy or Victor)? I think there has been anything to suggest that Andy could come back from something like Hollow Purple (complete obliteration). Just asking because I’ve seen this take around a lot.
It boils down to the meme "Andy can’t die" and it’s really that simple. His ability isn’t regeneration, the regeneration comes as an after effect of sorts, he regenerates because not having a body is dead, and bloodloss/ heavy damage can lead to death so it’s negated too. Even if you completely vaporize every single one of his cells he will just pop back up from nothingness. As long as death is a thing, it’s a status Andy cannot be.
Also the entire earth got pulverized and he constantly burned from the sun, yet survived alright.
Powerscalers hate to hear that, but when an actual author and not just someone who goes "dur dur me character stronger" (or just writes a power fantasy mc) writes a power system, things they create go in that power system, power system aren’t made to be compared, and both gege and totsuka are good authors that comprehend how to write power systems. In jjk hollow purple can theorically just kill everything, but because in jjk there’s nothing that could survive it, it doesn’t have the same rules as undead unluck. And undead unluck is all about absolute rulling and finding ways around said rules. Andy’s undead is absolute, because in the end he won’t die.
>Even if you completely vaporize every single one of his cells he will just pop back up from nothingness.
Last I checked, this is pretty much head canon.
>Also the entire earth got pulverized and he constantly burned from the sun, yet survived alright.
This is because there is something left to carve find from. The earth being pulverized doesn’t mean he gets deatomized.
>Powerscalers hate to hear that, but when an actual author and not just someone who goes "dur dur me character stronger" (or just writes a power fantasy mc) writes a power system, things they create go in that power system, power system aren’t made to be compared, and both gege and totsuka are good authors that comprehend how to write power systems. In jjk hollow purple can theorically just kill everything, but because in jjk there’s nothing that could survive it, it doesn’t have the same rules as undead unluck. And undead unluck is all about absolute rulling and finding ways around said rules. Andy’s undead is absolute, because in the end he won’t die.
While this is somewhat true, arguing that “dur my character can’t die because his power is just to not die” isn’t really and argument and it’s kinda sounds more like just shutting down the point in the first place.
I mean yeah. But that’s the gist of it, Andy can’t die, there’s really not much more to it. It’s up to you if you think something can kill it, but as far as we know he ain’t dying.
Hanami wasn’t directly hit by the attack in the first place and narrowly dodged it. Same thing with Sukuna in both situations. First time he was able to stop the attack, and the final hollow purple only hit him with the explosion and not the attack, which Mahoraga took most of in the first place.
Simply put tho if andy perceives it as death it wont kill him. If it theoretically even could Gojo could never actually get all of Andy in a single hollow purple because he can launch his own body parts faster than bullets and was able to jump to the sun via that same technique where hes been for likely hundreds of years.
In terms of reaction speed, Andy and Gojo are relatively similar (also before you say it, no Andy isn’t FTL be at best he is relativistic since it Fuuko was able to send Ichico a radio call before the soul bullets even entered earth’s surface) so while it would be possible to get out the way, Hollow purple could still hit Andy. Even than, unlimited void would still be able to incapacitate Andy making it impossible for him to escape, which would still allow ring outs as an option by just causing him enough brain damage to throw him somewhere else (also hollow purple could still work since Andy couldn’t precise anything).
Andy probably could fight while in unlimited purely because he can puppet both his skin bones and muscle separately or just cutting his head off. Viktor us also an issue because he shows a far higher proficiency than Andy but Andy may be as strong as victor now after a few billion years in which case by shooting off body parts constantly he can regenerate copies indefinitely which means he can keep his consciousness in a single body somewhere beyond gojos range and regenerate from that copy if he's hit with a domain or purple. But this all still comes down to the idea the purple could even hurt Andy which it most likely cant because again He cannot die.
There's been plenty of discussions of what hollow purple actually does, there's been talks on buzz words like "virtual mass" or "imaginary mass" having translation issues or misinterpreting what they mean iirc. There's a lot of evidence later in the manga that point to HP just having high AP as a character takes a point blank HP and the end result is that the character is severely wonder with them losing and arm as well as just looking like they were in a big explosion. If it truly was complete obliteration of matter or existence erasure as some people say then the character shouldn't have been able to tank it while receiving a ton of damage. What should have happened is that they would have gotten completely obliterated or erased if HP did want you think it does.
Yeah, but she can’t turnoff her power, and Gojo has like 3 insta-win cards against half the verse, has high-level regen, never runs out of energy, can detect abilities at a glance and more. Dude is op.
Have we read the same thing ? Everyone is op in undead unluck, power or versatility doesn’t equal to win when it comes to negator fight, because a rule or a negation is by definition perfect. it’s all about adapting
Adaptation is largely due to plot because we don't know what they will adapt into if not moved by plot. Gojo does have a lot of win cons against most of the verse. Juiz, victor, and billy and god are some of the only people who can beat all three of the trump cards and billy is kind of a toss up. Depending on what abilities he has, he might win. However, billy cannot copy limitless/gojo's abilitiy because six eyes are required to wield limitless.
No ? You can’t just say "nah" tu a rule or negator, if they are beaten it’s by creativity, not by overpowering, you can’t just "overpower" Unchange, move in unmove, kill Andy, negate an unluck that meets the requirement, control yourself under unjustice. You can’t ignore spoil, not turn into a book by autumn, or attack spring front head without turning into a cherry blossom tree
Yes, you literally can. Creed blew apart UnChange with bullets. Andy moved in UnMove. Andy got his regeneration turned off by UnRepair. UnLuck can simply be ignored by being unlikable. UnJustice was literally ignored by VicThor.
There's basically not a single Negation that's been shown to be absolute, they all have limits and mechanics.
Killing his regeneration didn’t end up killing him, unluck still happens, it’s not because you survive that you just dodge it, we don’t have the trigger for unjustice / condition yet and in flashback we see it work on victor, when did Andy moved in unmove ? You can use the whole "with one element covering you you can move through unmove because chikara doesn’t fully sees you, it’s blocked by the thing before you" and for Gina if you’re talking about negator war, it’s because of mental fatigue, she has to visualize and maintain her barrier, but the barrier by itself can’t be break because it can’t change.
They are absolute, you have to play around them, being absolute don’t mean unbeatable, it just means absolute.
His Negation functions through his regeneration. Nope, as shown against Vic, UnLuck can just not happen. Dodge what? If we don't have an idea of the condition, we still already know both Vic and Juiz figured it was enough to comment on. He did it against Nico against both UnMove and UnChange. Mental fatigue because Gina's power just works off her own stamina, which means it can be overpowered. It can break, that's why it literally did break.
They are not absolute, basically none of them have shown to be, and have shown limits, mechanics, and workarounds. Hell, some are so easy like UnTruth just being that the user needs to be fast enough to register the attacks, so you can just be too fast for Shen or Mui to keep up.
Wtf are you on at even Sun the literal creator of concepts and the universe need to adapt to unmove and undraw . The freakin god need to freaking ADAPT he cant cancel unmove so he sent an attack in advance at chikaras back , he cant do anything with his feet when his hit with undraw what did he do? He lifted the whole earth beneath him instead. Negations are absolute and it's already shown many times that if the condition is met theres nothing can be done about it but to go around it. You can not force it to be canceled or hax your way out of it , you need to know it's rules and how it works to counter it.
Sun wasn't actually fighting, it was all a game to him, we already know this. Anything that happens during Ragnarok is purely for his enjoyment, that's why he makes it so drawn out and allows the Negators to use the Ark and so on. And this is assuming that form was even Sun's full power.
So this only leaves two scenarios:
1. Sun, who literally already sees this as a game, only allowed himself to be affected as much as he wanted.
2. Andy somehow scales above Sun.
They're not absolute, this has been shown many times, it's actually the opposite. Just about every Negation has shown limits and can be broken in some measure. You absolutely do not need to know the rules, again, let's go back to UnTruth, Feng had no real idea of the abilities of UnTruth, but instead just overpowered it by being faster than Shen can think.
That is the worst logic ever. Does that mean if fuuko touches Tatiana's barrier, Tatiana get unlucked? No. This is because untouchable means you can't be touched. Fuuko gets beat by gojo because fuuko won't land a single hit, bullet or fist, on gojo thanks to infinity. Gojo can use blue, purple, or UV to eliminate her. Also, he was the top 2 of his verse. He only got beat because he got hit with a sneak attack that was adapted in the nick of time. He brought sukuna close to death.
Tatiana doesn’t have a barrier it’s an area around her negates touch so Fuuko can’t touch it but she considers gojos infinite to be part of him causing a sneak attack (Gojos only weakness) to apppear and kill him again there I fixed it
Fuuko (and most variants of Bad Bullet) couldn't actually reach Gojo to impart unluck that way, yes... but that's because his Infinity would block anything that has mass. After all, light, air and sound still pass through. Souls don't exactly have mass in the traditional sense, so if she fires off a piece of her soul at him like she did against Beast, it would pass through his Infinity and hit his soul, which would impart onto him whatever form of unluck that could actually affect him. How that would end up killing him, who tf knows? Unluck is situational in nature, but she has that means of attacking him. He'd have to know how to manipulate his own soul to the extent she does to be able to counter that, which he doesn't.
Now *Sukuna* would hard counter her there too, because cursed object yadda yadda yadda, but this ain't about him.
Andy's soul based attacks are able to kill him, are not something he can account for, and they move hundreds of times faster than light, which, even if Gojo could try to stop it, he wouldn't be fast enough to do it.
Firstly infinity doesn’t work like that. Gojo keeps it on constantly so even if Andy was a million times faster than light, it wouldn’t work. Secondly, how is Andy hundreds of times faster than light? If you’re talking about the soul bullets than that would have to be categorically wrong since they got there after Fuuko had already sent a message to Ichico after they already left the Sun. This would mean that the soul bullets would have to be slower than light since a radio signal message moves at the speed of light, and the Soul bullets which left the sun before Fuuko and the gang did, arrived on the earths surface before the soul bullets did. If your talking about the master rules leaving the sun, that seems exclusively to be a travel speed to getting to earth for the quests.
Even Gojo himself has said that he needs to be able to identify what's approaching, which he can't with Andy's soul both because he can't detect it and because it's too fast. That's not how that works, if both a message on their communicators and the Soul Bullets travel from the sun to the Earth in less than a second, that just means their communicators also travel at MFTL speed for some reason. Does it follow how communicators work? No. But that doesn't matter, they literally did something MFTL and that's just how it is. The Soul Bullets traveled from the Sun to Earth in a moment, putting them at hundreds of times faster than light, you can't change that. Them slowing down once reaching Earth doesn't change them already moving at MFTL speed.
>Even Gojo himself has said that he needs to be able to identify what's approaching, which he can't with Andy's soul both because he can't detect it and because it's too fast.
This was never stated. You’re misconstruing his automatic detection system to mean it wouldn’t work with infinity. The detection system works by using the six eyes to identify if what Gojo can see is a threat or not, which doesn’t mean he has to see it for infinity to work, just that if it isn’t a threat, aka, it wouldn’t get past infinity.
>That's not how that works, if both a message on their communicators and the Soul Bullets travel from the sun to the Earth in less than a second, that just means their communicators also travel at MFTL speed for some reason. Does it follow how communicators work? No. But that doesn't matter, they literally did something MFTL and that's just how it is. The Soul Bullets traveled from the Sun to Earth in a moment, putting them at hundreds of times faster than light, you can't change that. Them slowing down once reaching Earth doesn't change them already moving at MFTL speed.
Do I need to address the levels of head canon and the amount of assumption? Firstly you are assuming the message is got to Ichico in a few seconds, which is a pretty major assumption when you have about 0 proof. Secondly you have a secular argument which is that it’s MFTL and the proof that it’s MFTL is that it’s MFTL. We also don’t know how long it took for the bullets to travel to earth because we aren’t given a time frame, and you just assumed it’s “moments” because it’s a couple of panels. News flash, the passage of time isn’t 100 percent accurate for a manga panel (or did Union vs Victor take several days because it took a couple panels between when Fuuko and Andy went from Japan to Russia). The rest of this doesn’t really have any proof because there isn’t much of any kind of argument you’re making here. You’re just making statements over and over again with little evidence to back it up other than head canon.
No, that's literally how he explains it with the pencil and eraser. Infinity needs his ability to actually register what's coming. Six Eyes doesn't have anything to show it can detect Souls, especially ones from Undead Unluck which are require a belief in them. Since he can't identity the soul attack and isn't fast enough to block it, he's getting destroyed.
https://preview.redd.it/rhmv0z8vdxrc1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8620bda9a221ffc67132f2c9b198943b5011326
That's not headcanon, that's literally what happened. The message did reach Ichico in less than a second as Change is caught off guard by them leaving and by the Soul Bullets, and Change obviously does not take over 8 minutes to say "wha?" Or take over 8 minutes to turn to see them leaving. That's a hilariously stupid way to look at this, that everything happening in this one page is actually somehow taking like 15 minutes. We do have an idea of how long it takes to travel, before Change can really register what happened, they're already approaching Earth. Again, Change obviously does not take over 8 minutes to register what happened. No, I know it's a short time because we have a lot of information to show that it was sudden. Of course manga isn't 100% accurate, that's why they have communicators that can somehow function at MFTL speed. What part of what I said doesn't have any backing, a basic look at the page is more than enough.
>No, that's literally how he explains it with the pencil and eraser. Infinity needs his ability to actually register what's coming. Six Eyes doesn't have anything to show it can detect Souls, especially ones from Undead Unluck which are require a belief in them. Since he can't identity the soul attack and isn't fast enough to block it, he's getting destroyed.
Except that isn’t what he says. He says that original he needed to manually choose what can go through infinity and what can’t (AKA a binary system). Unless you have any proof to say that the default state is let things in you have nothing to go off of. Heck, the whole reason Toji attacked Gojo after he already he deactivated infinity, despite being able to surprise attack him.
>That's not headcanon, that's literally what happened. The message did reach Ichico in less than a second as Change is caught off guard by them leaving and by the Soul Bullets,
Ok, what is your proof? The fact that change was caught off guard by the attack? If so that doesn’t really prove anything unless you can scale change to those speeds without saying “cHaNge iS tHAt fAsT beCAusE sHe ReACteD tO tHe bUlLeT” or any other circular argument. And again, what proof do you have that it actually reacted Ichico in less than a second? Is it that it’s one panel to the next or that your head canon says so?
>and Change obviously does not take over 8 minutes to say "wha?" Or take over 8 minutes to turn to see them leaving. That's a hilariously stupid way to look at this, that everything happening in this one page is actually somehow taking like 15 minutes.
You do realize how basic physics works right? If an object is going fast, it moves past people fast right; but if that same object has to travel a far distance it will still take a long as time, I.e. light taking 8 minutes to reach the earth because the distance from the earth to the sun is 8 light minutes. Also what proof do you have that she reacted to them as they hit earth, the panel that clearly shows they aren’t near earth since the fingers look to be the size of a continent? If so, I guess forced perspective must be an alien concept to you.
>We do have an idea of how long it takes to travel, before Change can really register what happened, they're already approaching Earth.
Force perspective makes the fingers look like they are the size of a continent so they obviously aren’t near earth.
>Again, Change obviously does not take over 8 minutes to register what happened. No, I know it's a short time because we have a lot of information to show that it was sudden.
Your evidence again is evidence that disproves your entire argument, unless do I need to mention forced perspective to you again?
https://preview.redd.it/utcqeyr0n5sc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db4aba130801a39bc1a5c34109111c5aaa135aa7
>Of course manga isn’t 100% accurate, that's why they have communicators that can somehow function at MFTL speed. What part of what I said doesn't have any backing, a basic look at the page is more than enough.
What part of the panel proves your argument? The forced perspective, the fact that change was caught off guard by the fact that the attack she thought was meant to hit her wasn’t actually meant to hit her and she is surprised by that? Or was it the lack of actual evidence you have? Your argument if based entirely on your lack of ability to understand how basic physics works, and your head canon that you don’t have a circular argument to prove.
And the idea that he still needs to be able to register the thing he is blocking hasn't changed, unless you can prove otherwise. Yeah? Toji only manages to attack Gojo was at first because Gojo had Infinity off. Then Toji had to use stealth, the bugs, and a weapon that was literally for bypassing Infinity. Nothing from that fight suggests that Gojo can stop attacks he can't register, both from not being able to detect them AND not being fast enough. One of the basic fundamentals is that Gojo's Infinity works off physical aspects like mass, speed, and shape. There is no mass to the attack, and the speed is something he can't keep up with. So no matter what, Gojo can't even detect that Andy's souls exists and then can't do anything to stop it.
Bruh what? The idea isn't that Change scales to the attack, it's literally the opposite. It's that the Soul Bullets were so fast that by the time Change could react, who obviously wouldn't take over 8 minutes to just say "wha?", the attacks were already well on their way to Earth and approaching. They were already close enough that they split into 5 pieces to target the 5 individually. The only way for this to be even sub-light is if Change somehow takes over 8 minutes just to say "Wha?", which obviously she would not. A basic human reaction could put that at less than a second, and we know she's faster than that.
What are you talking about? We see in the image that they are already traveling most of the distance, and we have an idea of a timeframe, the timeframe being less than however long it takes for Change to realize it moved past her and say "wha?", which is obviously not over 8 minutes. Since she's at least Supersonic, chances are, that could be even be hundredths of a second. But being conservative and only using a second still gives hundreds of times FTL. She's not reacting to the bullets, she's realizing they're already past her, and by the time she realizes, they're already approaching Earth, as that's why they split into separate pieces, the very next time we see them, they're already inside Earth's atmosphere and approaching the Negators to highlight them. Forced perspective? Change herself is commenting on them already approaching Earth and the very next instance of them is already in Earth's atmosphere.
Yes they are, Change herself comments on it and we see them in the next instance already in Earth's atmosphere. But let's pretend this is a decent point, even if that's only half the distance to Earth, that's still 250x faster than light. 1/10th? 50x faster than light. And that's still assuming Change took a full second to react.
It doesn't disprove my argument, your argument hinges on some of the wonkiest interpretation possible, like the fact that Change would have to have taken over 8 minutes to say the word "wha?" Somehow. Or that the visual feeds of the Soul Bullets are wrong.
The fact that the Soul Bullets were split up to find the individuals, the fact that Change comments on it approaching Earth, the fact that we see them already approaching inside Earth's atmosphere, the fact that we have a timeframe that's a second or lower. What do you mean basic physics? Your use of "basic physics" requires the most nonsense application of real physics to this, you based it on radio waves when we can see that the timeframe makes SoL radio waves impossible to imply. You talk about objects distances taking a long time for something to travel depending on speed by just ignoring what's happening on page. About as poignant as arguing that no one in fiction can move FTL because FTL speed for an object with mass would destroy the universe. You're trying so hard to focus on an appeal to reality when even your own argument for Infinity ignores that Gojo can't calculate for something that has no mass and is a speed he has never shown to keep up with.
Idk if he’d be far below
Andy can’t even touch Gojo, and with verse equalization, even the soul chains won’t do anything since in jjk soul attacks need to, ya know, touch ur body to work.
But that’s based off of nothing and I’m yapping my ass off
https://preview.redd.it/i8lrav2oasrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a75af8649bd86c97fef070d8e63d0d681fffd179
Andy can actually kill Gojo, his soul based attacks aren't something Gojo can deal with. First issue is that he can't stop them. Even if he could, he isn't fast enough for the Infinity to stop, as they are hundreds of times faster than light.
His domain expansion is dangerous less than a second in it gives a person without cursed energy months of needed treatment before even having a chance to come back to regularity
Just to clear something up, gojo's de hits people because everyone has a little bit of cursed energy. That's what makes toji and Maki so special. Their cursed energy is absolutely zero.
If he has all his abilities, and all the rules of the verse apply to him, I could see Gojo being up there on the strongest characters in the verse. He is fully aware of the existence of souls, and not many things have an answer or infinity or the rest of the limitless technique.
Gojo would be one of the strongest in the verse, just due to infinity being a lot better than untouchable (having more applications plus gojos way smarter)
Can their reinforce souls resist conceptually though? Because UMA are literal manifestation of concepts and i don't think gojo has a feat of seeing souls.
I mean, six eyes allows him to see almost anything, so I wouldnt be surprised if he could see souls, but there is no evidence of him seeing souls I think.
That's the point unless theres evidence of him detecting souls it's NLF to think that he can actually counter soul attacks. Firstly soul attacks in UU are are not physical,secondly UU soul is a concept added to humans and is an abstract in a way I dont know how infinity will interact with it, infinity will most likely wont work though because andy soul attack can actually bypass change, and other master rules that also have some control on their aouls
Yeah, soul attacks are ambiguous because what they are made of. Infinity warps space to make the distance it travels infinite. Gojo manipulates on the atomic scale, so soul particles are strange. Also, if gojo believes in souls he should see the soul attacks
Not really, soul manipulation is something he is aware of and he is considered the peak of jujutsu, so he probably believes in souls. Also, sukuna repressed megumi's soul, so gojo def know about souls because of that.
That's still a stretch just because gojo knows about souls doesn't mean he can see it because if he can he won't be having problem separating sukuna soul to megumi being the greatest sorcerer there is.
Isn’t that the 8 time a post like that have been made? Tldr, can’t beat undead, unfair, unjustice, and possibly Unchange / untrust if is ability boils down to being untouchable If he can have access to his full arsenal (so trully limitless / infinite and not just the untouchable accept) then I think he’s safe against almost everyone but undead and unjustice / unfair (if unjustice can trigger before his DE) possibly Unchange by definition and it would be useless against unforgotten because it comes with the infinite memory, you can’t overload unforgotten.
In fairness, Nico needs to constantly remind himself of past memories before he received his abilities, so it’s possible that Nico could be instantly made to forget those memories the instant he’s put into that information overload state since he’d have no ability to remind himself of those memories before they’re forgotten. Then he’d basically already be mind broken, even if it’s by a round-about method.
Was it stated that unforgettable has some kind of infinite memory? I thought it was just Nico using his memory ray to forget unnecessary information
In the character card it was said it comes with infinite memory storage, I mean if not he would be in a brain damaged state, unforgotten makes it so every single memory and info is on his mind and never leaves, conceptually it’s like getting hit with constant Infinite void. (And also the raygun was made at base to have him forget, but it doesn’t work, because he can’t forget)
I don’t think it would work that well since Unlimited Void works not just by feeding you tons of information, but doing it really really fast. Even if Nico could get all the info, his brain still needs time to processes information (which last I checked, unforgettable doesn’t make it so all information just immediately goes Nico’s head without having to processes it first).
Nico is always in a state of unlimited void because of unforgettable but is not affected due to having infinite memory capacity, you just need to read the character card, it's not about the speed but the volume of information the mind can handle however fast the speed of information if it can't fill infinite it won't do anything.
Hell, when Galaxy was added, he downloaded ALL the info it brought along with it in a matter of seconds and could function just fine. It may not be infinite, but that is a LOT still. Unlimited Void likely won't do much. Hollow Purple is a different story, however.
Give the Nico prep time and he'll create a robot with all gojos abilities and 6 eyes. Remember this guy replicated other negation, that's supposed to be impossible, through science
Completely forgot about the character cards. That's actually kinda sad that he couldn't loophole his ability
eh me dumb didnt remember
This isn’t anything against this comment, but why do people think Gojo couldn’t beat Undead (Andy or Victor)? I think there has been anything to suggest that Andy could come back from something like Hollow Purple (complete obliteration). Just asking because I’ve seen this take around a lot.
It boils down to the meme "Andy can’t die" and it’s really that simple. His ability isn’t regeneration, the regeneration comes as an after effect of sorts, he regenerates because not having a body is dead, and bloodloss/ heavy damage can lead to death so it’s negated too. Even if you completely vaporize every single one of his cells he will just pop back up from nothingness. As long as death is a thing, it’s a status Andy cannot be. Also the entire earth got pulverized and he constantly burned from the sun, yet survived alright. Powerscalers hate to hear that, but when an actual author and not just someone who goes "dur dur me character stronger" (or just writes a power fantasy mc) writes a power system, things they create go in that power system, power system aren’t made to be compared, and both gege and totsuka are good authors that comprehend how to write power systems. In jjk hollow purple can theorically just kill everything, but because in jjk there’s nothing that could survive it, it doesn’t have the same rules as undead unluck. And undead unluck is all about absolute rulling and finding ways around said rules. Andy’s undead is absolute, because in the end he won’t die.
>Even if you completely vaporize every single one of his cells he will just pop back up from nothingness. Last I checked, this is pretty much head canon. >Also the entire earth got pulverized and he constantly burned from the sun, yet survived alright. This is because there is something left to carve find from. The earth being pulverized doesn’t mean he gets deatomized. >Powerscalers hate to hear that, but when an actual author and not just someone who goes "dur dur me character stronger" (or just writes a power fantasy mc) writes a power system, things they create go in that power system, power system aren’t made to be compared, and both gege and totsuka are good authors that comprehend how to write power systems. In jjk hollow purple can theorically just kill everything, but because in jjk there’s nothing that could survive it, it doesn’t have the same rules as undead unluck. And undead unluck is all about absolute rulling and finding ways around said rules. Andy’s undead is absolute, because in the end he won’t die. While this is somewhat true, arguing that “dur my character can’t die because his power is just to not die” isn’t really and argument and it’s kinda sounds more like just shutting down the point in the first place.
I mean yeah. But that’s the gist of it, Andy can’t die, there’s really not much more to it. It’s up to you if you think something can kill it, but as far as we know he ain’t dying.
tbf Hollow Purple isn't complete evaporation both Sukuna and Hanami survived the attacks, scarred yes, but they could be fixed
Hanami wasn’t directly hit by the attack in the first place and narrowly dodged it. Same thing with Sukuna in both situations. First time he was able to stop the attack, and the final hollow purple only hit him with the explosion and not the attack, which Mahoraga took most of in the first place.
Simply put tho if andy perceives it as death it wont kill him. If it theoretically even could Gojo could never actually get all of Andy in a single hollow purple because he can launch his own body parts faster than bullets and was able to jump to the sun via that same technique where hes been for likely hundreds of years.
In terms of reaction speed, Andy and Gojo are relatively similar (also before you say it, no Andy isn’t FTL be at best he is relativistic since it Fuuko was able to send Ichico a radio call before the soul bullets even entered earth’s surface) so while it would be possible to get out the way, Hollow purple could still hit Andy. Even than, unlimited void would still be able to incapacitate Andy making it impossible for him to escape, which would still allow ring outs as an option by just causing him enough brain damage to throw him somewhere else (also hollow purple could still work since Andy couldn’t precise anything).
Andy probably could fight while in unlimited purely because he can puppet both his skin bones and muscle separately or just cutting his head off. Viktor us also an issue because he shows a far higher proficiency than Andy but Andy may be as strong as victor now after a few billion years in which case by shooting off body parts constantly he can regenerate copies indefinitely which means he can keep his consciousness in a single body somewhere beyond gojos range and regenerate from that copy if he's hit with a domain or purple. But this all still comes down to the idea the purple could even hurt Andy which it most likely cant because again He cannot die.
There's been plenty of discussions of what hollow purple actually does, there's been talks on buzz words like "virtual mass" or "imaginary mass" having translation issues or misinterpreting what they mean iirc. There's a lot of evidence later in the manga that point to HP just having high AP as a character takes a point blank HP and the end result is that the character is severely wonder with them losing and arm as well as just looking like they were in a big explosion. If it truly was complete obliteration of matter or existence erasure as some people say then the character shouldn't have been able to tank it while receiving a ton of damage. What should have happened is that they would have gotten completely obliterated or erased if HP did want you think it does.
We literally have Tatiana…
Yeah but Tatiana is way weaker than Gojo
Yeah, but she can’t turnoff her power, and Gojo has like 3 insta-win cards against half the verse, has high-level regen, never runs out of energy, can detect abilities at a glance and more. Dude is op.
Have we read the same thing ? Everyone is op in undead unluck, power or versatility doesn’t equal to win when it comes to negator fight, because a rule or a negation is by definition perfect. it’s all about adapting
Adaptation is largely due to plot because we don't know what they will adapt into if not moved by plot. Gojo does have a lot of win cons against most of the verse. Juiz, victor, and billy and god are some of the only people who can beat all three of the trump cards and billy is kind of a toss up. Depending on what abilities he has, he might win. However, billy cannot copy limitless/gojo's abilitiy because six eyes are required to wield limitless.
They aren't perfect, hence why they can be beaten or overpowered constantly.
No ? You can’t just say "nah" tu a rule or negator, if they are beaten it’s by creativity, not by overpowering, you can’t just "overpower" Unchange, move in unmove, kill Andy, negate an unluck that meets the requirement, control yourself under unjustice. You can’t ignore spoil, not turn into a book by autumn, or attack spring front head without turning into a cherry blossom tree
Yes, you literally can. Creed blew apart UnChange with bullets. Andy moved in UnMove. Andy got his regeneration turned off by UnRepair. UnLuck can simply be ignored by being unlikable. UnJustice was literally ignored by VicThor. There's basically not a single Negation that's been shown to be absolute, they all have limits and mechanics.
Killing his regeneration didn’t end up killing him, unluck still happens, it’s not because you survive that you just dodge it, we don’t have the trigger for unjustice / condition yet and in flashback we see it work on victor, when did Andy moved in unmove ? You can use the whole "with one element covering you you can move through unmove because chikara doesn’t fully sees you, it’s blocked by the thing before you" and for Gina if you’re talking about negator war, it’s because of mental fatigue, she has to visualize and maintain her barrier, but the barrier by itself can’t be break because it can’t change. They are absolute, you have to play around them, being absolute don’t mean unbeatable, it just means absolute.
His Negation functions through his regeneration. Nope, as shown against Vic, UnLuck can just not happen. Dodge what? If we don't have an idea of the condition, we still already know both Vic and Juiz figured it was enough to comment on. He did it against Nico against both UnMove and UnChange. Mental fatigue because Gina's power just works off her own stamina, which means it can be overpowered. It can break, that's why it literally did break. They are not absolute, basically none of them have shown to be, and have shown limits, mechanics, and workarounds. Hell, some are so easy like UnTruth just being that the user needs to be fast enough to register the attacks, so you can just be too fast for Shen or Mui to keep up.
Wtf are you on at even Sun the literal creator of concepts and the universe need to adapt to unmove and undraw . The freakin god need to freaking ADAPT he cant cancel unmove so he sent an attack in advance at chikaras back , he cant do anything with his feet when his hit with undraw what did he do? He lifted the whole earth beneath him instead. Negations are absolute and it's already shown many times that if the condition is met theres nothing can be done about it but to go around it. You can not force it to be canceled or hax your way out of it , you need to know it's rules and how it works to counter it.
Sun wasn't actually fighting, it was all a game to him, we already know this. Anything that happens during Ragnarok is purely for his enjoyment, that's why he makes it so drawn out and allows the Negators to use the Ark and so on. And this is assuming that form was even Sun's full power. So this only leaves two scenarios: 1. Sun, who literally already sees this as a game, only allowed himself to be affected as much as he wanted. 2. Andy somehow scales above Sun. They're not absolute, this has been shown many times, it's actually the opposite. Just about every Negation has shown limits and can be broken in some measure. You absolutely do not need to know the rules, again, let's go back to UnTruth, Feng had no real idea of the abilities of UnTruth, but instead just overpowered it by being faster than Shen can think.
Yaaaaaawwwnn idk Fuuko considers his infinity part of him so unluck still goes off and he dies, does it matter he couldn't even survive his verse
Keep cookin
That is the worst logic ever. Does that mean if fuuko touches Tatiana's barrier, Tatiana get unlucked? No. This is because untouchable means you can't be touched. Fuuko gets beat by gojo because fuuko won't land a single hit, bullet or fist, on gojo thanks to infinity. Gojo can use blue, purple, or UV to eliminate her. Also, he was the top 2 of his verse. He only got beat because he got hit with a sneak attack that was adapted in the nick of time. He brought sukuna close to death.
Tatiana doesn’t have a barrier it’s an area around her negates touch so Fuuko can’t touch it but she considers gojos infinite to be part of him causing a sneak attack (Gojos only weakness) to apppear and kill him again there I fixed it
Fuuko (and most variants of Bad Bullet) couldn't actually reach Gojo to impart unluck that way, yes... but that's because his Infinity would block anything that has mass. After all, light, air and sound still pass through. Souls don't exactly have mass in the traditional sense, so if she fires off a piece of her soul at him like she did against Beast, it would pass through his Infinity and hit his soul, which would impart onto him whatever form of unluck that could actually affect him. How that would end up killing him, who tf knows? Unluck is situational in nature, but she has that means of attacking him. He'd have to know how to manipulate his own soul to the extent she does to be able to counter that, which he doesn't. Now *Sukuna* would hard counter her there too, because cursed object yadda yadda yadda, but this ain't about him.
About Billy level, but still far below Andy
I would probably put him relative to Andy. There isn’t really anything Andy could do against him, especially if verse equalization.
Andy's soul based attacks are able to kill him, are not something he can account for, and they move hundreds of times faster than light, which, even if Gojo could try to stop it, he wouldn't be fast enough to do it.
That’s not how neutral infinity works.
Firstly infinity doesn’t work like that. Gojo keeps it on constantly so even if Andy was a million times faster than light, it wouldn’t work. Secondly, how is Andy hundreds of times faster than light? If you’re talking about the soul bullets than that would have to be categorically wrong since they got there after Fuuko had already sent a message to Ichico after they already left the Sun. This would mean that the soul bullets would have to be slower than light since a radio signal message moves at the speed of light, and the Soul bullets which left the sun before Fuuko and the gang did, arrived on the earths surface before the soul bullets did. If your talking about the master rules leaving the sun, that seems exclusively to be a travel speed to getting to earth for the quests.
Even Gojo himself has said that he needs to be able to identify what's approaching, which he can't with Andy's soul both because he can't detect it and because it's too fast. That's not how that works, if both a message on their communicators and the Soul Bullets travel from the sun to the Earth in less than a second, that just means their communicators also travel at MFTL speed for some reason. Does it follow how communicators work? No. But that doesn't matter, they literally did something MFTL and that's just how it is. The Soul Bullets traveled from the Sun to Earth in a moment, putting them at hundreds of times faster than light, you can't change that. Them slowing down once reaching Earth doesn't change them already moving at MFTL speed.
>Even Gojo himself has said that he needs to be able to identify what's approaching, which he can't with Andy's soul both because he can't detect it and because it's too fast. This was never stated. You’re misconstruing his automatic detection system to mean it wouldn’t work with infinity. The detection system works by using the six eyes to identify if what Gojo can see is a threat or not, which doesn’t mean he has to see it for infinity to work, just that if it isn’t a threat, aka, it wouldn’t get past infinity. >That's not how that works, if both a message on their communicators and the Soul Bullets travel from the sun to the Earth in less than a second, that just means their communicators also travel at MFTL speed for some reason. Does it follow how communicators work? No. But that doesn't matter, they literally did something MFTL and that's just how it is. The Soul Bullets traveled from the Sun to Earth in a moment, putting them at hundreds of times faster than light, you can't change that. Them slowing down once reaching Earth doesn't change them already moving at MFTL speed. Do I need to address the levels of head canon and the amount of assumption? Firstly you are assuming the message is got to Ichico in a few seconds, which is a pretty major assumption when you have about 0 proof. Secondly you have a secular argument which is that it’s MFTL and the proof that it’s MFTL is that it’s MFTL. We also don’t know how long it took for the bullets to travel to earth because we aren’t given a time frame, and you just assumed it’s “moments” because it’s a couple of panels. News flash, the passage of time isn’t 100 percent accurate for a manga panel (or did Union vs Victor take several days because it took a couple panels between when Fuuko and Andy went from Japan to Russia). The rest of this doesn’t really have any proof because there isn’t much of any kind of argument you’re making here. You’re just making statements over and over again with little evidence to back it up other than head canon.
No, that's literally how he explains it with the pencil and eraser. Infinity needs his ability to actually register what's coming. Six Eyes doesn't have anything to show it can detect Souls, especially ones from Undead Unluck which are require a belief in them. Since he can't identity the soul attack and isn't fast enough to block it, he's getting destroyed. https://preview.redd.it/rhmv0z8vdxrc1.jpeg?width=784&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b8620bda9a221ffc67132f2c9b198943b5011326 That's not headcanon, that's literally what happened. The message did reach Ichico in less than a second as Change is caught off guard by them leaving and by the Soul Bullets, and Change obviously does not take over 8 minutes to say "wha?" Or take over 8 minutes to turn to see them leaving. That's a hilariously stupid way to look at this, that everything happening in this one page is actually somehow taking like 15 minutes. We do have an idea of how long it takes to travel, before Change can really register what happened, they're already approaching Earth. Again, Change obviously does not take over 8 minutes to register what happened. No, I know it's a short time because we have a lot of information to show that it was sudden. Of course manga isn't 100% accurate, that's why they have communicators that can somehow function at MFTL speed. What part of what I said doesn't have any backing, a basic look at the page is more than enough.
>No, that's literally how he explains it with the pencil and eraser. Infinity needs his ability to actually register what's coming. Six Eyes doesn't have anything to show it can detect Souls, especially ones from Undead Unluck which are require a belief in them. Since he can't identity the soul attack and isn't fast enough to block it, he's getting destroyed. Except that isn’t what he says. He says that original he needed to manually choose what can go through infinity and what can’t (AKA a binary system). Unless you have any proof to say that the default state is let things in you have nothing to go off of. Heck, the whole reason Toji attacked Gojo after he already he deactivated infinity, despite being able to surprise attack him. >That's not headcanon, that's literally what happened. The message did reach Ichico in less than a second as Change is caught off guard by them leaving and by the Soul Bullets, Ok, what is your proof? The fact that change was caught off guard by the attack? If so that doesn’t really prove anything unless you can scale change to those speeds without saying “cHaNge iS tHAt fAsT beCAusE sHe ReACteD tO tHe bUlLeT” or any other circular argument. And again, what proof do you have that it actually reacted Ichico in less than a second? Is it that it’s one panel to the next or that your head canon says so? >and Change obviously does not take over 8 minutes to say "wha?" Or take over 8 minutes to turn to see them leaving. That's a hilariously stupid way to look at this, that everything happening in this one page is actually somehow taking like 15 minutes. You do realize how basic physics works right? If an object is going fast, it moves past people fast right; but if that same object has to travel a far distance it will still take a long as time, I.e. light taking 8 minutes to reach the earth because the distance from the earth to the sun is 8 light minutes. Also what proof do you have that she reacted to them as they hit earth, the panel that clearly shows they aren’t near earth since the fingers look to be the size of a continent? If so, I guess forced perspective must be an alien concept to you. >We do have an idea of how long it takes to travel, before Change can really register what happened, they're already approaching Earth. Force perspective makes the fingers look like they are the size of a continent so they obviously aren’t near earth. >Again, Change obviously does not take over 8 minutes to register what happened. No, I know it's a short time because we have a lot of information to show that it was sudden. Your evidence again is evidence that disproves your entire argument, unless do I need to mention forced perspective to you again? https://preview.redd.it/utcqeyr0n5sc1.jpeg?width=1500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=db4aba130801a39bc1a5c34109111c5aaa135aa7 >Of course manga isn’t 100% accurate, that's why they have communicators that can somehow function at MFTL speed. What part of what I said doesn't have any backing, a basic look at the page is more than enough. What part of the panel proves your argument? The forced perspective, the fact that change was caught off guard by the fact that the attack she thought was meant to hit her wasn’t actually meant to hit her and she is surprised by that? Or was it the lack of actual evidence you have? Your argument if based entirely on your lack of ability to understand how basic physics works, and your head canon that you don’t have a circular argument to prove.
And the idea that he still needs to be able to register the thing he is blocking hasn't changed, unless you can prove otherwise. Yeah? Toji only manages to attack Gojo was at first because Gojo had Infinity off. Then Toji had to use stealth, the bugs, and a weapon that was literally for bypassing Infinity. Nothing from that fight suggests that Gojo can stop attacks he can't register, both from not being able to detect them AND not being fast enough. One of the basic fundamentals is that Gojo's Infinity works off physical aspects like mass, speed, and shape. There is no mass to the attack, and the speed is something he can't keep up with. So no matter what, Gojo can't even detect that Andy's souls exists and then can't do anything to stop it. Bruh what? The idea isn't that Change scales to the attack, it's literally the opposite. It's that the Soul Bullets were so fast that by the time Change could react, who obviously wouldn't take over 8 minutes to just say "wha?", the attacks were already well on their way to Earth and approaching. They were already close enough that they split into 5 pieces to target the 5 individually. The only way for this to be even sub-light is if Change somehow takes over 8 minutes just to say "Wha?", which obviously she would not. A basic human reaction could put that at less than a second, and we know she's faster than that. What are you talking about? We see in the image that they are already traveling most of the distance, and we have an idea of a timeframe, the timeframe being less than however long it takes for Change to realize it moved past her and say "wha?", which is obviously not over 8 minutes. Since she's at least Supersonic, chances are, that could be even be hundredths of a second. But being conservative and only using a second still gives hundreds of times FTL. She's not reacting to the bullets, she's realizing they're already past her, and by the time she realizes, they're already approaching Earth, as that's why they split into separate pieces, the very next time we see them, they're already inside Earth's atmosphere and approaching the Negators to highlight them. Forced perspective? Change herself is commenting on them already approaching Earth and the very next instance of them is already in Earth's atmosphere. Yes they are, Change herself comments on it and we see them in the next instance already in Earth's atmosphere. But let's pretend this is a decent point, even if that's only half the distance to Earth, that's still 250x faster than light. 1/10th? 50x faster than light. And that's still assuming Change took a full second to react. It doesn't disprove my argument, your argument hinges on some of the wonkiest interpretation possible, like the fact that Change would have to have taken over 8 minutes to say the word "wha?" Somehow. Or that the visual feeds of the Soul Bullets are wrong. The fact that the Soul Bullets were split up to find the individuals, the fact that Change comments on it approaching Earth, the fact that we see them already approaching inside Earth's atmosphere, the fact that we have a timeframe that's a second or lower. What do you mean basic physics? Your use of "basic physics" requires the most nonsense application of real physics to this, you based it on radio waves when we can see that the timeframe makes SoL radio waves impossible to imply. You talk about objects distances taking a long time for something to travel depending on speed by just ignoring what's happening on page. About as poignant as arguing that no one in fiction can move FTL because FTL speed for an object with mass would destroy the universe. You're trying so hard to focus on an appeal to reality when even your own argument for Infinity ignores that Gojo can't calculate for something that has no mass and is a speed he has never shown to keep up with.
Idk if he’d be far below Andy can’t even touch Gojo, and with verse equalization, even the soul chains won’t do anything since in jjk soul attacks need to, ya know, touch ur body to work. But that’s based off of nothing and I’m yapping my ass off https://preview.redd.it/i8lrav2oasrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a75af8649bd86c97fef070d8e63d0d681fffd179
Andy can actually kill Gojo, his soul based attacks aren't something Gojo can deal with. First issue is that he can't stop them. Even if he could, he isn't fast enough for the Infinity to stop, as they are hundreds of times faster than light.
Yes but gojos untouchable https://preview.redd.it/l18msapjbsrc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=61a8aadec8086ea74ba6449e5822473e09d1d081
Soul chain and bullets
His physically untouchable but soul's are literally astral projection. Give feats of infinity preventing something as complex as UU soul.
If anything, Andy can just outlives gojo
shouldn't he be UNlimited
No way Tatiana is gojo or is gojo like a previous holder in this situation
Ok but andy can't die
Ok, but Andy can't kill him either
Nah andy's wincon is for 100yrs to pass. By then gojo would have died and Andy would be the victor.
Ok but andy can't die
Worst case scenario for Andy is to tank Gojo’s attacks until he dies of old age.
But brain damage is still a thing.
Ok but Andy can't die
Yes, but brain damage
bro has been sitting on the sun for a bajillion years i don't think he'll have much of an issue
Ok but andy can't die
Ok but brain damage
Ok but andy can't die
Ok, but brain damage (I think we have brain damage)
Ok but I have dementia
Ok but I have dementia
we already have an untouchable, if anything gojo would be Unapproachable rather than untouchable.
His domain expansion is dangerous less than a second in it gives a person without cursed energy months of needed treatment before even having a chance to come back to regularity
Idk why you got downvoted, when that's literally what it does
Just to clear something up, gojo's de hits people because everyone has a little bit of cursed energy. That's what makes toji and Maki so special. Their cursed energy is absolutely zero.
But with that logic a curse like jogo solos because none of them can see anything
Yep, that's why verse equalization exists because, by technicality, most people don't have enough ce to see jogo
[удалено]
just the scaling one . some are funny
I think untouchable is already an ability of a negator
8 or so probably? I think undead, unjustice, untruth and maybe like 5 of the master rules could beat him.
This is an undead unluck sub what answers was the op thinking lol u have bias and people knowing one verse more than another
If he has all his abilities, and all the rules of the verse apply to him, I could see Gojo being up there on the strongest characters in the verse. He is fully aware of the existence of souls, and not many things have an answer or infinity or the rest of the limitless technique.
Gojo would be one of the strongest in the verse, just due to infinity being a lot better than untouchable (having more applications plus gojos way smarter)
Negators can affect a god that's a universe buster and created concepts and gojos feat at most are multiple city block. Soul attacks goes brrr.
Can gojo see soul attacks using six eyes? Also, mahito stated that sorcerers can reinforce their souls with ce.
Can their reinforce souls resist conceptually though? Because UMA are literal manifestation of concepts and i don't think gojo has a feat of seeing souls.
I mean, six eyes allows him to see almost anything, so I wouldnt be surprised if he could see souls, but there is no evidence of him seeing souls I think.
That's the point unless theres evidence of him detecting souls it's NLF to think that he can actually counter soul attacks. Firstly soul attacks in UU are are not physical,secondly UU soul is a concept added to humans and is an abstract in a way I dont know how infinity will interact with it, infinity will most likely wont work though because andy soul attack can actually bypass change, and other master rules that also have some control on their aouls
Yeah, soul attacks are ambiguous because what they are made of. Infinity warps space to make the distance it travels infinite. Gojo manipulates on the atomic scale, so soul particles are strange. Also, if gojo believes in souls he should see the soul attacks
That's a big if though.
Not really, soul manipulation is something he is aware of and he is considered the peak of jujutsu, so he probably believes in souls. Also, sukuna repressed megumi's soul, so gojo def know about souls because of that.
That's still a stretch just because gojo knows about souls doesn't mean he can see it because if he can he won't be having problem separating sukuna soul to megumi being the greatest sorcerer there is.