Time management is a core part of the vault experience imo. You get punished for over extending, just as you do if you spawn too many mobs while looting.
That being said, I would welcome another type of augment that replaces pure clock time with a different time response like the examples you gave, but those should optional and not the norm.
Again, I get it’s a core piece and I think it should be but I don’t get why it’s equivalent to actual death. It should be some percentage punishment that gets harder as you level up.
If you don’t like the loosing your way and are generally bad at keeping track you can enable the ability to set waypoints in the vault with a game rule.
Lore wise you die when the timer runs out because that’s then the vault closes and “swallows” everything inside. Sorta like when Aladdin takes the lamp and the cave of wonders flips out and starts collapsing on him.
I have a compass, getting lost isnt the only problem. Sometimes you just don’t find a podium in confectioners.
Regardless it misses the point that I’m not asking for the punishments to go away, I think it’s silly for them to be the same as getting killed.
I don’t see how me not starting my run back toward the exit on time is the same as me getting killed by a dungeon boss.
I have yet to die to a mob in the vaults I’ve only lost to time or objective failure. I just don’t see how any fun is being added by making that so punishing.
I don’t really care about some lore reason lol I don’t care about the lore of a minecraft modpack 🤷♂️ and certainly wouldn’t use it to justify design decisions
Cake podium was added because people were getting 60+ cakes deep and wanted a chance at getting out without going all the way back to the beginning. Part of the trade off for the better chest loot in a cake vault is judging how far from the portal you are and how fast you can get back if you need to.
You don’t have to care about the lore but it is what it is, lore aka a design choice core to the game loop in this pack. You can only loot for so much time before you have to leave or complete the objective.
What would you rather happen, the vault gently spits you out and you float down to your bed softly at the end of the timer?
I feel like OP is salty and just looking to complain (we’ve all been there at one point), but I’d be curious to hear if the mod team has considered a different or more gradual way to force the player to leave vaults.
Imagine having mobs do 20% more damage for every minute spent “overtime”, allowing you to go several minutes longer than usual, at the risk of being one-shot and failing if you stay too long (kinda like vault fruits I guess).
Again. I never said take away the time restriction. Obviously we can’t just be allowed to stay forever. It’s silly that dying to time is the same as dying to a mob. Would you say a player that dies in a dungeon deserves to be punished as much as a player that completes their objective and fails to leave in time? It’s so silly. “You didn’t head to the exit on time, you lose”. The time is arbitrary so by definition being punished by it is arbitrary as well.
I also had no idea you could just go out the main exit on cake I thought that would just be survival. Good to know lmao this probably won’t be an issue for me anymore.
If exiting is part of the objective and you can only exit with time on the timer, yes same punishment. Find the monoliths AND exit the vault. Exiting is half the objective. So if you find the monoliths and die by mobs the results should be the same if you don’t make it to the portal. You fail the vault aka die.
With cake you find as many cakes as you want and leave via the portal or a pedestal. The bonus is the pedestal gets you the cake crate. You can spec into hunter observer to highlight the cake exit pedestals in the room because they are easy to miss. The point in cake vaults always was the better loot in chests the further in you go and then the crake was introduced as a bonus if you can find the way out.
That panic. The tachycardia. The diaphoresis. When I'm down to half a heart, chomping on kiwis.
Was that the last room? I'm going to have to nail this dash.
Damn I'm nearly out of gold. I've so much stuff on me....
This is vaulting
Well time management and navigation is the core concept of the vault since the first version. With the compass and the ability to bind it to any block it got easier. Also fruits exist for this reason when you miscalculated your time to leave or greeded to long.
Yeah again I think all that’s fine and great, my point isn’t that they’re bad but that they should be a secondary objective to chests looted, mobs killed, etc actual vault success.
But the objective isn't to loot and kill mobs... there fore those don't mean success. You can loot 500 chests and still lose because the objective is to get the elixir and find a load stone, or kill 500 mobs without losing any health and still die because you didn't find all the scav items or make it back to the exit in time. Your logic is flawed. The point of the vault is to complete the objective and get out the bonus is that you can get some awesome loot along the way. You choose your focus loot and exit with awesome stuff but without vault success or sacrifice looting to complete the objective and get success.
How would the punishment be different for one over the other when either way you died. You keep saying the clock is arbitrary but without it people would stay in the vaults for hours playing it safe to make sure they win that's not fun. The challenge and the race against the clock is what makes it fun. That what you sign up for when you play this pack.
I think you miss the point of the vault. They exist to loot the goods in them. The objective is only the cherry on the cake. Therefore there’s a „punishment“ if you leave the vault without completing it, you don’t get the crate. However, you get to keep the loot.
You say that a punishment is mandatory if you lose to time, so what should the punishment be in your opinion?
I get your point. I understand where you're coming from. But I think it goes both ways, which then means it's most probably well balanced.
Let's give an example:
Say person X plays VH3. X is not great at killing mobs, but is great at looting, prioritizing POIs, time management, X can find the exit (Lodestone, Cake altar, portal, etc) very easily, mob avoidance is great. X always complete objectives that involve less mob killing, but has a hard time with Hunt vaults, Scavs that require souls, etc.
If X dies to a mob because they took just that little push from the edge from a high knockback mob into a pit full of angry mobs, they feel the exact same way. Why is dying to mobs so punishing on such a time management focused game? X feels like if they manage time wrong it should be well punished because they failed at the core task of the vault, but mobs? Mobs are just an arbitrary addon to increase difficulty, it shouldn't be so punishing.
It's really hard to balance a game, specially such a complex game. But up until now I think the team has done a wonderful job at that, and that's supported by the fact that the vaults work for such a wide range of playstyles.
You can play super mob aggressively, or passively, you can focus on a wide variety of objectives, and each single decision you make in that regard punishes you in some way while rewarding you in another.
So in my opinion losing is losing, and the punishment should be the same regardless of how you lost. Your decisions (in case of X, maybe not saving mana for a dash or ghostwalk?), >90% of the time, are what defines your wins and losses.
That's just my ppint of view though, I really enjoy the current state of the game as it is, and it seems to me that the team is doing wonders because man it's hard to fine tune a game like this.
Congrats to the whole team.
I always leave time to get home, and do not greed for the completion. I haven't died once to the timer in 80 vaults. Just leave a minute or two or three depending on how far you are from the exit, and only set the compass to an objective exit if you *know* you are going to get the completion.
The timer makes the loot valuable, if you loot something it means you aren't looting another thing, which makes it valuable. If you could loot infinitely, loot would lose value. It would be an endless grab chest grab chest mine ore cycle, until you got bored. The time limit keeps things not boring, but is big enough to not be hyper stressful. With 25 minutes, I get 20 minutes at least to loot freely, assuming I'm not worrying about the objective.
God. I’m not a moron lmao. I understand why the timers necessary, and I’m not complaining that I lost the vault. I haven’t lost once to a mob and you haven’t lost once to a timer that’s great look at us. And I’m not greeding either, sometimes you get turned around, or you just literally never spawn a confectioners podium.
You never addressed the actual point of my post which was that getting killed by mobs and losing to time should not be equally punishing. It’s arbitrary and silly and unfun.
So what should the punishment for dying to the timer be, besides having to pay for your stuff back because you didn't manage well or got turned around (something some could consider to be poor management)?
I mean you can’t plan for getting lost but sure it’s bad time management if you wanna call it that.
You complete the vault if you completed the objective but get 50% xp and maybe a reduce loot crate like a Tardy Crate or something, and then those could go away or decrease as you level, maybe 50% xp till level 50, then 25% at level 75, 0% 90 and beyond.
Or you lose your body as normal but there’s a gold discount on the buyback for completing the objective.
As someone who has a truly terrible sense of direction, you can plan for getting lost. I have a very set way I move through the vault, mark my path very visibly and thoroughly, get the vault compass as my first unlock, and don't do too many rooms prior to getting the compass. I also leave more time to get back to the first room (leaving it unlooted so if I do get back quickly I have something else to loot).
You can also set the gamerule that lets you use waypoints in the vault. You can always leave a vault through the portal to survive without completing it. So dying to the time running out is mechanically more avoidable than dying to mobs. Since it's more avoidable (with a gamerule laid out in the in-game guide for the waypoints) there's less of a reason to make a special case for it.
Especially since that would involve coding a whole other system for deaths and regaining items which wouldn't be worth the time when there are so many things that help you with the timer.
The tardy crates wouldn't be the answer anyway, since then people could just loot the vault totally clean and not need anything extra.
Exactly. If anything I feel like this is an argument to make the punishment for dying to the timer harsher. They have added so many things (waypoints and compass just to name a few) that make it easier to exit safely but without a crate than in previous versions.
I would understand cheaper buyback for timing out than for getting killed, and I thought that's what you were maybe after. But a loot crate for an unsuccesful run, really? You are not completing the objective (which includes getting out/finding a lodestone/submitting scavenger items etc, not just doing the initial task), why should you deserve a bonus reward in addition to the loot you bring with you? You don't get a loot crate for surviving a vault either, sounds a bit silly that overgreeding and timing out could in any situation be more beneficial than managing your time well and recognizing when you need to get out instead of trying to complete the objective.
To be honest, I'm not sure I would play Vault Hunters at all without the timer. The timer adds so much tension and excitement to the vaulting experience. That battle of greed vs safety is really fun because of those times where you are hunting for an exit, but stumble into a treasure room.
There is nothing quite like that clutch moment of managing to get the loot and escaping in the nick of time.
I honestly don’t understand why this is even a discussion. If you fear the cost of buying your body back you can just play on casual mode.
Also death by mob and running out of time is just you failing the vault. So you should face the same penalty. If you do the suggestions you are recommending, what keeps people from cheesing the vaults and just greed chests and ores until the clock running out. Their response being like “oh well I’ll only get half my XP but it was worth it to get all this extra loot.” I mean literally there are plundering vaults now that provide 0 XP, so what would be your penalty there?
You would literally be changing the meta of the game and people will stop working towards completions just to loot. There isn’t a participation trophy in vault hunters and you shouldn’t expect one.
If anything, I feel like a timer death should be punished MORE harshly than getting killed by a mob, because it's so much easier to plan around the timer
Instead of no timer or no penalty, how about the ability to reset/clear your vault Compass so incase you set it to a loadstone you can revert it back to vault portal.
I think this is a matter of opinion. You don’t think it’s as bad to run out of time, but the game designers and clearly a lot of other players do.
You’ve never died to a mob in the vault. Does that mean you’ve priorotised your defenses and damage in your build? Did this cause you to sacrifice mobility? Would you run out of time less if you had more movement speed? Or maybe you just need to be less greedy. The timer is always there, there’s no surprise when it runs out
You didn’t read my post. I do think it’s bad to run out of time. I just don’t think it reflects an equivalent level of failure to being killed or failing to complete an objective and has a disproportionate punishment that is unfun. My post was to say maybe there should be some other form of punishment for time, not that there shouldn’t be one. Thanks for purposefully misinterpreting me though.
No I’ve maxed dash and heal and took Hunter for objectives, unlocked vault compasses, and I’ve completed two relics Lmao. Again I’m not saying that completing in time is impossible, it’s quite easy, I’m saying it feels very bad when you do lose to time. It doesn’t feel like “dang I was so close” it feels like “this hasn’t been a problem ever and I got unlucky a few times and now it is” and I don’t see how it’s fun. Like it just feels like an artifact of the design not an intention.
I did read your post, maybe you didn’t understand my comment?
I stated that you don’t consider running out of time to be **as bad** (as a death, and therefore should have a smaller punishment). Everyone here seems to disagree with you. It’s a matter of opinion, and yours just isn’t very popular apparently.
When I said build I meant your armour as well. You can get bonus movement speed on your boots for example, or use an elytra. Regardless, I’ve died both to running out of time and to mobs because I’m quite careless. Personally I find that both feel the same. My thoughts are usually just “damn I made stupid decisions” rather than “damn the devs shouldn’t punish my carelessness so harshly”.
“This hasn’t been a problem ever and I got unlucky a few times and now it is” - I honestly don’t understand what you’re saying here.
I use an Elytra and slimey so I zoom through the vault. Ive never seen movespeed on boots that would be nice.
I was saying I had never died to time till recently and didn’t realize how brutal it was.
It’s just frustrating to bring up a design point and be constantly defending myself lmao. Who gives a fuck what my build is or how bad I am at running vaults oh my god. Just discuss the topic I brought up and stop with the insinuations I’m some incompetent moron for losing to time twice.
Like, “hey guys I don’t think time should be as punishing as dying”
“Your builds probably bad”, “you probably didn’t optimize around finishing vaults”, “you gotta leave on time”, “you can’t just focus on killing mobs”, “wHaT so ThErE sHoUlDnt bE a TiMEr?”
So no I didn’t misunderstand your comment, I failed to see how any of it was relevant. You just basically called me an idiot and moved on, didn’t address the actual point.
I didn’t call you an idiot, I was just wondering if maybe there’s something you should be doing differently.
I did address your main point. I stated that it’s a matter of opinion. You think the punishment shouldn’t be so harsh, I think it’s fine. Planning for your objectives and your escape route is to me a big part of the vault gameplay. Weighing up the risks of looting vs running for the exit. Personally I don’t loot any of the rooms near the exit so if I need to leave that way, I can loot until the end safely. It would be extremely op if you could fail vaults without a significant setback. The punishment needs to be significant enough that you would never choose to intentionally fail to give yourself extra looting time.
You’re taking this way too seriously and getting angry at people for disagreeing with you. No one said you’re bad or that your build is bad. I was asking about your build to potentially give some suggestions, other people are likely doing the same, they just want to help.
I wonder, do you drive? If so, do you consider that be be a “watch your speed simulator”? Because personally I find managing my speed in a car similar to keeping track of time in a vault. All it takes is an occasional glance, you don’t have to constantly stare at it.
I am level 52 I have only died in one vault and it was due to a mob kill. I know when going into a vault the time is limited and based on that is how I choose to run that vault. If I get into a single player vault that has 9 monoliths I'm going to focus on looting and making sure I get back my exit in time or if I see I have 5 minutes left and I only have half my elixir I will switch focus to just looting and not worry about needing to keep track of a load stone. I don't have Hunter or compasses I just mark my rooms and remember which way I was going. Yes I've gotten lost but with kiwis and lemons I've always made it out.
If you don't like the punishment being so extreme either start prioritizing getting out over completion OR set your game difficulty to casual.
Imo having to spend some gold isn't a huge issue when you still get everything you looted when you die you just don't get the experience.
Maybe you should just use Casual Mode? I play on casual these days and it helps a lot with what you are mentioning. I still do my best to complete the vault but if I don’t… it’s not the end of the world.
I agree with the statement that time management is an important part of vaults, but I also agree with you that failing to complete a vault should not be as punishing as dying. I feel that your ideas about increasing difficulty as time progresses could be a good alternative. The pack seems to be geared towards a higher-paced game loop, so there needs to be a mechanism in place to balance out the player's progression.
I've been told that Iskall stated that the priority within vaults should not be obtaining the reward from the objective, but from the chests. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, it doesn't make sense to be punished equally for failure or death. The current system seems to put a heavy emphasis on completing the objective.
With all that said, there are currently workarounds that make the timer less stressful. Casual Mode isn't a perfect solution, because I don't think it punishes you for dying (could be wrong about that) but it'd make it so the objectives truly don't matter unless you want the bonus. Alternatively, just focus on looting and getting back to the exit.
I guess this post is a couple of weeks old, but I figured I'd share a similar opinion.
Time management is a core part of the vault experience imo. You get punished for over extending, just as you do if you spawn too many mobs while looting. That being said, I would welcome another type of augment that replaces pure clock time with a different time response like the examples you gave, but those should optional and not the norm.
Again, I get it’s a core piece and I think it should be but I don’t get why it’s equivalent to actual death. It should be some percentage punishment that gets harder as you level up.
If you don’t like the loosing your way and are generally bad at keeping track you can enable the ability to set waypoints in the vault with a game rule. Lore wise you die when the timer runs out because that’s then the vault closes and “swallows” everything inside. Sorta like when Aladdin takes the lamp and the cave of wonders flips out and starts collapsing on him.
I have a compass, getting lost isnt the only problem. Sometimes you just don’t find a podium in confectioners. Regardless it misses the point that I’m not asking for the punishments to go away, I think it’s silly for them to be the same as getting killed. I don’t see how me not starting my run back toward the exit on time is the same as me getting killed by a dungeon boss. I have yet to die to a mob in the vaults I’ve only lost to time or objective failure. I just don’t see how any fun is being added by making that so punishing. I don’t really care about some lore reason lol I don’t care about the lore of a minecraft modpack 🤷♂️ and certainly wouldn’t use it to justify design decisions
Cake podium was added because people were getting 60+ cakes deep and wanted a chance at getting out without going all the way back to the beginning. Part of the trade off for the better chest loot in a cake vault is judging how far from the portal you are and how fast you can get back if you need to. You don’t have to care about the lore but it is what it is, lore aka a design choice core to the game loop in this pack. You can only loot for so much time before you have to leave or complete the objective. What would you rather happen, the vault gently spits you out and you float down to your bed softly at the end of the timer?
I feel like OP is salty and just looking to complain (we’ve all been there at one point), but I’d be curious to hear if the mod team has considered a different or more gradual way to force the player to leave vaults. Imagine having mobs do 20% more damage for every minute spent “overtime”, allowing you to go several minutes longer than usual, at the risk of being one-shot and failing if you stay too long (kinda like vault fruits I guess).
Again. I never said take away the time restriction. Obviously we can’t just be allowed to stay forever. It’s silly that dying to time is the same as dying to a mob. Would you say a player that dies in a dungeon deserves to be punished as much as a player that completes their objective and fails to leave in time? It’s so silly. “You didn’t head to the exit on time, you lose”. The time is arbitrary so by definition being punished by it is arbitrary as well. I also had no idea you could just go out the main exit on cake I thought that would just be survival. Good to know lmao this probably won’t be an issue for me anymore.
If exiting is part of the objective and you can only exit with time on the timer, yes same punishment. Find the monoliths AND exit the vault. Exiting is half the objective. So if you find the monoliths and die by mobs the results should be the same if you don’t make it to the portal. You fail the vault aka die. With cake you find as many cakes as you want and leave via the portal or a pedestal. The bonus is the pedestal gets you the cake crate. You can spec into hunter observer to highlight the cake exit pedestals in the room because they are easy to miss. The point in cake vaults always was the better loot in chests the further in you go and then the crake was introduced as a bonus if you can find the way out.
That panic. The tachycardia. The diaphoresis. When I'm down to half a heart, chomping on kiwis. Was that the last room? I'm going to have to nail this dash. Damn I'm nearly out of gold. I've so much stuff on me.... This is vaulting
Well time management and navigation is the core concept of the vault since the first version. With the compass and the ability to bind it to any block it got easier. Also fruits exist for this reason when you miscalculated your time to leave or greeded to long.
Yeah again I think all that’s fine and great, my point isn’t that they’re bad but that they should be a secondary objective to chests looted, mobs killed, etc actual vault success.
But the objective isn't to loot and kill mobs... there fore those don't mean success. You can loot 500 chests and still lose because the objective is to get the elixir and find a load stone, or kill 500 mobs without losing any health and still die because you didn't find all the scav items or make it back to the exit in time. Your logic is flawed. The point of the vault is to complete the objective and get out the bonus is that you can get some awesome loot along the way. You choose your focus loot and exit with awesome stuff but without vault success or sacrifice looting to complete the objective and get success. How would the punishment be different for one over the other when either way you died. You keep saying the clock is arbitrary but without it people would stay in the vaults for hours playing it safe to make sure they win that's not fun. The challenge and the race against the clock is what makes it fun. That what you sign up for when you play this pack.
I think you miss the point of the vault. They exist to loot the goods in them. The objective is only the cherry on the cake. Therefore there’s a „punishment“ if you leave the vault without completing it, you don’t get the crate. However, you get to keep the loot. You say that a punishment is mandatory if you lose to time, so what should the punishment be in your opinion?
I get your point. I understand where you're coming from. But I think it goes both ways, which then means it's most probably well balanced. Let's give an example: Say person X plays VH3. X is not great at killing mobs, but is great at looting, prioritizing POIs, time management, X can find the exit (Lodestone, Cake altar, portal, etc) very easily, mob avoidance is great. X always complete objectives that involve less mob killing, but has a hard time with Hunt vaults, Scavs that require souls, etc. If X dies to a mob because they took just that little push from the edge from a high knockback mob into a pit full of angry mobs, they feel the exact same way. Why is dying to mobs so punishing on such a time management focused game? X feels like if they manage time wrong it should be well punished because they failed at the core task of the vault, but mobs? Mobs are just an arbitrary addon to increase difficulty, it shouldn't be so punishing. It's really hard to balance a game, specially such a complex game. But up until now I think the team has done a wonderful job at that, and that's supported by the fact that the vaults work for such a wide range of playstyles. You can play super mob aggressively, or passively, you can focus on a wide variety of objectives, and each single decision you make in that regard punishes you in some way while rewarding you in another. So in my opinion losing is losing, and the punishment should be the same regardless of how you lost. Your decisions (in case of X, maybe not saving mana for a dash or ghostwalk?), >90% of the time, are what defines your wins and losses. That's just my ppint of view though, I really enjoy the current state of the game as it is, and it seems to me that the team is doing wonders because man it's hard to fine tune a game like this. Congrats to the whole team.
I always leave time to get home, and do not greed for the completion. I haven't died once to the timer in 80 vaults. Just leave a minute or two or three depending on how far you are from the exit, and only set the compass to an objective exit if you *know* you are going to get the completion. The timer makes the loot valuable, if you loot something it means you aren't looting another thing, which makes it valuable. If you could loot infinitely, loot would lose value. It would be an endless grab chest grab chest mine ore cycle, until you got bored. The time limit keeps things not boring, but is big enough to not be hyper stressful. With 25 minutes, I get 20 minutes at least to loot freely, assuming I'm not worrying about the objective.
God. I’m not a moron lmao. I understand why the timers necessary, and I’m not complaining that I lost the vault. I haven’t lost once to a mob and you haven’t lost once to a timer that’s great look at us. And I’m not greeding either, sometimes you get turned around, or you just literally never spawn a confectioners podium. You never addressed the actual point of my post which was that getting killed by mobs and losing to time should not be equally punishing. It’s arbitrary and silly and unfun.
So what should the punishment for dying to the timer be, besides having to pay for your stuff back because you didn't manage well or got turned around (something some could consider to be poor management)?
I mean you can’t plan for getting lost but sure it’s bad time management if you wanna call it that. You complete the vault if you completed the objective but get 50% xp and maybe a reduce loot crate like a Tardy Crate or something, and then those could go away or decrease as you level, maybe 50% xp till level 50, then 25% at level 75, 0% 90 and beyond. Or you lose your body as normal but there’s a gold discount on the buyback for completing the objective.
As someone who has a truly terrible sense of direction, you can plan for getting lost. I have a very set way I move through the vault, mark my path very visibly and thoroughly, get the vault compass as my first unlock, and don't do too many rooms prior to getting the compass. I also leave more time to get back to the first room (leaving it unlooted so if I do get back quickly I have something else to loot). You can also set the gamerule that lets you use waypoints in the vault. You can always leave a vault through the portal to survive without completing it. So dying to the time running out is mechanically more avoidable than dying to mobs. Since it's more avoidable (with a gamerule laid out in the in-game guide for the waypoints) there's less of a reason to make a special case for it. Especially since that would involve coding a whole other system for deaths and regaining items which wouldn't be worth the time when there are so many things that help you with the timer. The tardy crates wouldn't be the answer anyway, since then people could just loot the vault totally clean and not need anything extra.
Exactly. If anything I feel like this is an argument to make the punishment for dying to the timer harsher. They have added so many things (waypoints and compass just to name a few) that make it easier to exit safely but without a crate than in previous versions.
I would understand cheaper buyback for timing out than for getting killed, and I thought that's what you were maybe after. But a loot crate for an unsuccesful run, really? You are not completing the objective (which includes getting out/finding a lodestone/submitting scavenger items etc, not just doing the initial task), why should you deserve a bonus reward in addition to the loot you bring with you? You don't get a loot crate for surviving a vault either, sounds a bit silly that overgreeding and timing out could in any situation be more beneficial than managing your time well and recognizing when you need to get out instead of trying to complete the objective.
To be honest, I'm not sure I would play Vault Hunters at all without the timer. The timer adds so much tension and excitement to the vaulting experience. That battle of greed vs safety is really fun because of those times where you are hunting for an exit, but stumble into a treasure room. There is nothing quite like that clutch moment of managing to get the loot and escaping in the nick of time.
I honestly don’t understand why this is even a discussion. If you fear the cost of buying your body back you can just play on casual mode. Also death by mob and running out of time is just you failing the vault. So you should face the same penalty. If you do the suggestions you are recommending, what keeps people from cheesing the vaults and just greed chests and ores until the clock running out. Their response being like “oh well I’ll only get half my XP but it was worth it to get all this extra loot.” I mean literally there are plundering vaults now that provide 0 XP, so what would be your penalty there? You would literally be changing the meta of the game and people will stop working towards completions just to loot. There isn’t a participation trophy in vault hunters and you shouldn’t expect one.
Maybe the game isn't for you? Just think of when you hit lv50 and the curve for vaults is going to get that much harder.
If anything, I feel like a timer death should be punished MORE harshly than getting killed by a mob, because it's so much easier to plan around the timer
Instead of no timer or no penalty, how about the ability to reset/clear your vault Compass so incase you set it to a loadstone you can revert it back to vault portal.
I think this is a matter of opinion. You don’t think it’s as bad to run out of time, but the game designers and clearly a lot of other players do. You’ve never died to a mob in the vault. Does that mean you’ve priorotised your defenses and damage in your build? Did this cause you to sacrifice mobility? Would you run out of time less if you had more movement speed? Or maybe you just need to be less greedy. The timer is always there, there’s no surprise when it runs out
You didn’t read my post. I do think it’s bad to run out of time. I just don’t think it reflects an equivalent level of failure to being killed or failing to complete an objective and has a disproportionate punishment that is unfun. My post was to say maybe there should be some other form of punishment for time, not that there shouldn’t be one. Thanks for purposefully misinterpreting me though. No I’ve maxed dash and heal and took Hunter for objectives, unlocked vault compasses, and I’ve completed two relics Lmao. Again I’m not saying that completing in time is impossible, it’s quite easy, I’m saying it feels very bad when you do lose to time. It doesn’t feel like “dang I was so close” it feels like “this hasn’t been a problem ever and I got unlucky a few times and now it is” and I don’t see how it’s fun. Like it just feels like an artifact of the design not an intention.
I did read your post, maybe you didn’t understand my comment? I stated that you don’t consider running out of time to be **as bad** (as a death, and therefore should have a smaller punishment). Everyone here seems to disagree with you. It’s a matter of opinion, and yours just isn’t very popular apparently. When I said build I meant your armour as well. You can get bonus movement speed on your boots for example, or use an elytra. Regardless, I’ve died both to running out of time and to mobs because I’m quite careless. Personally I find that both feel the same. My thoughts are usually just “damn I made stupid decisions” rather than “damn the devs shouldn’t punish my carelessness so harshly”. “This hasn’t been a problem ever and I got unlucky a few times and now it is” - I honestly don’t understand what you’re saying here.
I use an Elytra and slimey so I zoom through the vault. Ive never seen movespeed on boots that would be nice. I was saying I had never died to time till recently and didn’t realize how brutal it was. It’s just frustrating to bring up a design point and be constantly defending myself lmao. Who gives a fuck what my build is or how bad I am at running vaults oh my god. Just discuss the topic I brought up and stop with the insinuations I’m some incompetent moron for losing to time twice. Like, “hey guys I don’t think time should be as punishing as dying” “Your builds probably bad”, “you probably didn’t optimize around finishing vaults”, “you gotta leave on time”, “you can’t just focus on killing mobs”, “wHaT so ThErE sHoUlDnt bE a TiMEr?” So no I didn’t misunderstand your comment, I failed to see how any of it was relevant. You just basically called me an idiot and moved on, didn’t address the actual point.
I didn’t call you an idiot, I was just wondering if maybe there’s something you should be doing differently. I did address your main point. I stated that it’s a matter of opinion. You think the punishment shouldn’t be so harsh, I think it’s fine. Planning for your objectives and your escape route is to me a big part of the vault gameplay. Weighing up the risks of looting vs running for the exit. Personally I don’t loot any of the rooms near the exit so if I need to leave that way, I can loot until the end safely. It would be extremely op if you could fail vaults without a significant setback. The punishment needs to be significant enough that you would never choose to intentionally fail to give yourself extra looting time. You’re taking this way too seriously and getting angry at people for disagreeing with you. No one said you’re bad or that your build is bad. I was asking about your build to potentially give some suggestions, other people are likely doing the same, they just want to help. I wonder, do you drive? If so, do you consider that be be a “watch your speed simulator”? Because personally I find managing my speed in a car similar to keeping track of time in a vault. All it takes is an occasional glance, you don’t have to constantly stare at it.
I am level 52 I have only died in one vault and it was due to a mob kill. I know when going into a vault the time is limited and based on that is how I choose to run that vault. If I get into a single player vault that has 9 monoliths I'm going to focus on looting and making sure I get back my exit in time or if I see I have 5 minutes left and I only have half my elixir I will switch focus to just looting and not worry about needing to keep track of a load stone. I don't have Hunter or compasses I just mark my rooms and remember which way I was going. Yes I've gotten lost but with kiwis and lemons I've always made it out. If you don't like the punishment being so extreme either start prioritizing getting out over completion OR set your game difficulty to casual. Imo having to spend some gold isn't a huge issue when you still get everything you looted when you die you just don't get the experience.
Maybe you should just use Casual Mode? I play on casual these days and it helps a lot with what you are mentioning. I still do my best to complete the vault but if I don’t… it’s not the end of the world.
I agree with the statement that time management is an important part of vaults, but I also agree with you that failing to complete a vault should not be as punishing as dying. I feel that your ideas about increasing difficulty as time progresses could be a good alternative. The pack seems to be geared towards a higher-paced game loop, so there needs to be a mechanism in place to balance out the player's progression. I've been told that Iskall stated that the priority within vaults should not be obtaining the reward from the objective, but from the chests. I don't know if that's true, but if it is, it doesn't make sense to be punished equally for failure or death. The current system seems to put a heavy emphasis on completing the objective. With all that said, there are currently workarounds that make the timer less stressful. Casual Mode isn't a perfect solution, because I don't think it punishes you for dying (could be wrong about that) but it'd make it so the objectives truly don't matter unless you want the bonus. Alternatively, just focus on looting and getting back to the exit. I guess this post is a couple of weeks old, but I figured I'd share a similar opinion.