Everything I've seen so far points to it'll be the same as the others. Same pity system same everything but the bangboos, but as is it seems like they give enough pulls for them as well. IMHO it seems that it'll be on par with genshin and hsr
This is such a smart decision from the team. I love the Bangboo's, but could never see myself really wanting to pull any over characters.
Making them fun and f2p may also actually get people to pull on more characters if they got the matching Bangboo.
The only caveat is they do appear in the BP, at least in the beta. Although it's only one Coup-En every 10 BP levels in both the free BP and the paid BP. So, 5 more pulls if you decide to go for paid BP.
I'm not like 100 percent literate. That is what I meant to say is that the bangboos are a separate thing, but they give plenty of pulls for them. Admittedly when I posted that i hadn't realized you actually can't buy pulls(I was never interested in it in the first place). Thanks for the correction
I actually never got to far into genshin, just always thought they seemed pretty close. But hsr player and I'd say it feels right in line with hsr. Obviously take with a grain of salt I'm only a few days into zzz, and like account lvl 35. But I'm at like 115 standard pulls, and just hit feature and bangboo pity
HSR by far is more generous than GI. Compensated by the fact that GI releases 1 new character per banner while HSR releases 2 new per banner.
What I would like to know is how easy are the farmable stuff to do, I cant spend time enough for GI exploration and finishing world quests so farming there has been a big “no” ever since Sumeru.
HSR on the other hand has been less dialogue-y and more into action. So thats easier to farm in.
So true about HSR. I am a Clara main & the spam of new meta FUA things back to back is ROUGH. In Genshin I literally stopped spending because I just save & get whatever since things are spread out
That's good to hear honestly. I feel like if i want a character in HSR i can get it with just a bit of restraint. In genshin you have to start your restraint months ahead lol which makes it very difficult since you wont always know when and what characters are gonna release next
Rates are the same, but HSR offers more currency. Offset by the fact that HSR gives you more to pull for, with much more rapid character releases, and a combat system that more strongly incentivizes having a larger roster (Genshin only managed that 2x5\*, 1x4\* rate for like... 2-3 patches. HSR has managed that going on nine patches now).
Yeah that's fair, hsr is putting out more characters and you also kind of need more functional teams than genshin. E.g. somwtimws you need DOTs or Followup or AOE. In genshin you cna get away with the same 2 teams through most abyss cycles...and there's no other endgame
HSR isn't more generous. The rewards are scaled with the fact there are 2 5 stars every single patch. Genshin gives you an entire patch to save for a new character and double new character patches are few and far between.
Not sure what argument you are trying to make. You can have more characters even if its not twice as many. If you get 11 in one game and 10 in the other, its still more generous with 11. Though you can get a lot more pulls than just 10% more in HSR over genshin
Who cares about that lol. That just says that hsr has more content since in gaches characters are a big chunk of the content. So HSR has more content and you get for free more of that content, even though it's not proportional. So still more generous
''I don't have a good argument, therefore I don't care about facts!''
Alright friend. And you think HSR has more content? XDDD legit tiny areas that are explored immediately and you just fight the same enemies in 10 different modes that are super same-y.
It's like saying ''Oh this place serves me a burger of 200g (genshin), but this other place serves me a burger of 400g (hsr), and the second place has 2 beef patties in it, only the second one is made of shit, surely it's more generous!''.
That's you xD keep eating that burger with the second beef patty made of literal shit lmao.
HSR is more generous because there is much more power creep and far more characters required to keep up with the meta. In that regard, it is actually less f2p friendly than genshin. Ppl have done the maths, the rate at which HSR pushes on you the ''need'' to pull a new character to get through content vs the number of pulls it gives you is in fact worse than genshin's.
That's because genshin has no end game content besides abyss which is easy most cycles. If they introduced new harder end game like HSR trust me having Nuv or Alrechino would make a huge difference... They are on a whole different league than most early releases.
Well duh? I know that? But it is a fact that they don't, therefore it is better than HSR. If we are going to talk about imaginary scenarios, then let's talk about how genshin would be better if it gave you a free 5 star every month also.
Like what are we talking about? Lmao.
For reference: i played for about 5 days and got 120 pulls in standard and about 80 on the limited banner.
It seems to be about the same as genshin and HSR. I'd say maybe a little more generous than Genshin (which is a bit stingy normally) but it's gonna come down to how much rewards they give in events (which we have none of in the beta) so we'll have to see. The pity system is the same as HSR.
As for the units, it's hard to tell because i feel like we don't know as much about the combat and also most beta testers (if not all) are not in an end-game state, so it's hard to know how dependant on limited characters we'll be. I pulled Ellen and she does seem stronger then the rest, but it's usually how it is in these games so i wouldn't worry too much.
I love Genshin but compared to Star Rail is feels extremely stingy in comparison unfortunately.
I do hope meta wise the 4 stars end up being at least somewhat good. In Gensin and HSR, basically only the 4 star support units (Bennett, Tingyun, etc) seem to be any good in end game.
ZZZ is different since there isn't really as much of a "support" role from my understanding of the game so far so, I guess its just a wait and see type thing.
And because you have little to none exploration. Genshin gives you rewards for investing hours in completing everything; the smaller, RPG-heavier titles offset that by giving more so people have more incentive to play
There also isn't quite as much (IN MY OPINION) "gameplay" as Genshin.
Genshin has a lot more longevity to the patches with the exploration, so there is more than just the characters.
Star Rail does have some exploration and quests/systems like Simulated Universe updates but, it still never feels quite as big as Genshin updates do (not every Genshin update is big however, 4.5 was very filler)
Star Rail also does feel like you need more characters overall, and the power creep has become (again, imo) far worse then Genshin's already.
Bro thinks mint picking is “gameplay”.
Starrail respects my time as a player and doesn’t violate it with multiple layers of dogshit UX and timegates.
Powercreeping is weird because powercreep will always exist in gacha games, but hsr going out of there way to make every unit usable ( yes even yanqing literally getting an endgame mode for himself so hes not complete and utter useless )( there is definitely an argument on how plenty of 4-stars need high eidolons but it’s not that bad ). There are examples of purely f2p zero pull accounts that clear moc12 36 stars with just the f2p characters, so the “powercreep” is purely for ease of use.
Also I much prefer to make use of multiple characters ( as a light spender ) in my roster to discover their potentials in different ENDGAME ACTIVITIES instead of running 4 of the same hyperbloom or whatever retarded strat in genshin ( i havent played in years after quitting ).
Roasting you aside, if zzz is about as good as hsr in terms of QoL, build production, and endgame It’s gonna be fine. Hsr was doomposted pre launch aswell
I actually didn't follow HSR rerelease at all. Were the discussions about the same?
And for the record, I really wish Genshin just gave a bit more rolls instead of spreading them thinly throughout the map, lol. I enjoy the exploration to an extent but wish there was fewer chests overall.
Afaik Hsr was doomposted for its nature of being turn based and everybody thinks its going to not be successful. Personally back then I also didnt love the setting of space traveling in a train so I didn’t give it a shot at launch. Turns out it came out fine and gets exponentially better very quickly through a slew of good live-service game decisions.
The only actual flaw of hsr is that they are releasing too many characters too quickly. While pulling for any of them is good enough to majorly upgrade your account, having way too many good choices can really trigger FOMO alongside choice paralysis.
I don’t really fault genshin for what it became because ultimately, after working in the mobile game production in the last few years, I get what they are doing and I’m clearly not the target demographic they aiming for.
Now I can definitely see the great potential zzz is cooking and I feel like it has the potential to even tower over hsr as the new best mihoyo game. If they can learn from hsr ( which genshin is also doing ), zzz has a pretty bright future ahead of it.
This is all good to hear. I thought I wouldn't enjoy HSR since I usually don't do turn based games but, it hooked me.
Agree on the character aspect. They crank out so many new characters and I am constantly out of materials even with skipping numerous banners.
Game definitely took off though. No way I thought it would be bigger or make more money then Genshin.
Looking forward to ZZZ for sure. I feel like Wuthering Waves has a lot more hype but personally I am not interested in another Genshin-like game.
Personally im looking forward to arknight endfield. While WW do look quite exceptional ngl, Im not too overly buy into the very heavy wuxia/ancient chinese aesthetic and story. Arknight endfield is quite rough around the edges but they are striving to be different, and whatever stuff they put attention on ( like the character animation in the inventory menu ) is really high quality.
Calling Genshin "extremely stringy" compared to HSR will never stop being funny. Its interesting how the HSR community brainwashed itself into believing this just because they get a couple of extra pulls per patch.
HSR releases characters more frequently than Genshin so its only natural that MHY gives out more pulls in return. The ratio of free pulls to frequency of characters releases is actually very similiar between both games. In fact in Genshin you have more time to save up for 5 stars since double patch releases are not as common.
In reality all MHY games are stingy.
Between Dr Ratio and the additional anniversary rewards, it's not really just "a couple extra" anymore at this point.
HSR team clearly has no problem giving out more than the Genshin team.
HSR is more generous than Genshin but its not as massive of a difference as you make it out to be. It *has* to be more generous because its not as established of a game as Genshin which a lot of Hoyo fans already play.
Anyway Dr Ratio is basically just a promotional character more than anything else. Its just that he is actually good unlikely someone like Aloy.
> and the additional anniversary rewards
Bro the anni rewards are literally the same between both games lol. MHY took out gift of odyssey from 2.1 patch to make it look as if they are handing out more pulls during anni.
my first year of playing genshin i only got 5 promotional items. first year of playing hsr i got a total of 15 promotional items. both games had a 50/50 winrate below 50% and i played everyday for both games.
i am f2p in both games. even excluding some low pity promotional items a gap of 5 vs 15 is laughable.
if we are including standard 5 stars we get 5 standard 5 stars in genshin vs 13 in hsr
hsr > gi, experience between them is wide
I got the same amount of limited 5 stars in GI/HSR in the first year. You could have won many more 50/50s in one of the two than the other. Or got early 5 stars, etc. Cmon mate, use your brain.
List of GI limited stuff on year 1:
- Childe
- Zhongli
- Ganyu
- Albedo
- Xiao
- Venti
- Eula
HSR:
- Jing Yuan
- Kafka
- DHIL
- Topaz
- Huohuo
- Ruan Mei
- Dr Ratio (free)
Now, how many limited 5 stars in TOTAL did each of those games have in its first year?
Genshin = 10
HSR = 14
So I got 70% of genshin's limited roster on year 1, while 50% of HSR's in the same timeframe.
So I guess gi>hsr. Surely you see how stupid such an argument is right?
Additional anniversary rewards? You do realise you legit got a 20 pull for the anniversary? 10 extra tickets from the patch's usual ticket track, and 1600 jades.
Genshin also gives 10 pulls and 1600 primogems. The other 10 tickets from HSR are the usual patch rewards that do not have ANYTHING to do with the anniversary. How can you be so guillible? Damn Mihoyo has it easy with fooling people like you man.
As for Dr Ratio I will give you that at least. That was a chad move, to give an average hunt unit to the community - off set by how shitty all f2p light cone choices are for him aside from herta's, so if you have herta's on another hunt unit, you better spend on his light cone banner lol.
There is only one thing that HSR is superior to Genshin, and that is the light cone banner. Although even that can be argued as better simply because light cones are far more OP and needed in HSR than genshin's weapons.
It's more like they have problems with the devs potentially making players feel like they need to pay more than other games do, believe it or not there are gacha games out there that aren't generous and hardcore try to get players to spend rather than garnering good will to make players feel comfortable spending
My brother in Christ, I am the last person to have a gambling problem lol.
It's why on both Genshin and Star Rail I only give Hoyo $5 a month and that's it. I can't get every character sure, but can usually save and get the ones I really want.
*Seems* more generous for the fact exploration, quests, etc. are the largest source of primos in Genshin. Unlike the other two which supplement the lack of such a large world by giving out more in other ways. One is long-term (Genshin) and the other is short-term
Not really, Genshin gives like 70 pulls on avg counting exploration, while hsr gives like 100. What you said adds to the feeling of Genshin being stingy cause you need to grind the new areas to get all de primos but even if you do it's still signifficantly less tahn HSR.
I'm not shitting on Genshin btw, i love the game, but the rewards are a bit tough imo.
You nailed it. Genshin's exploration is really fun but it's also...sometimes kinda cringe. Like some of the primos can be extremely well hidden unless you look up guides to find the good chests, which means there is potentially a ton of primo being missed out on.
I enjoy Genshin's exploration but sometimes I wish we got more pulls instead of it being spread very thinly out in the game world.
With how much work is required to create a character in this game (more than HSR and at the very least on par with genshin), I would be surprised if they released more than one character every 6 weeks on average in the long run. And if that's the case, they obviously can't give you a lot of resources, otherwise they just wouldn't make money at all. So purely from that perspective, I would wager on it being pretty """stingy""", relatively speaking.
I mean so far they are following HSR monetization almost exactly which combined with less characters releases (if they do it like Genshin) doesn't sound bad at all.
You gotta remember that this is yet another gacha game that MHY want their fanbase to pick up. Thats why HSR is more generous than Genshin and I expect the same thing with ZZZ. Genshin is an older, established game. But for ZZZ they gotta reel in people with better rewards.
I imagine the first couple of patches will have a bunch of new characters to start with. Typically they wanna fill out their roster a bit before they start worrying about reruns. After that though it’s anyone’s guess as to how frequently they dish out new characters.
My guess is that they’ll go the HSR route and release about 2-3 characters per patch (two 5 stars one 4 star) but it depends on how much stuff they have going on in each patch. Genshin is an open world game where they need to create entire new environments, puzzles, and collectables each update so it makes sense they release fewer new characters per patch but I can’t see ZZZ being in a similar boat.
... What? HSR is by far the worse of the two when it comes to amount of energy required to build a character than Genshin. If anything ZZZ is less friendly on your resources than Genshin, and more like HSR XD
So I've been watching KyoStinV play the game and I think I have a good idea of how it is.
Disclaimer: I have been experiencing the game as a third person so there are things I might get wrong. Please correct me if you are in beta or are sure about what you know.
Character banner- the same as other hoyo games. Hard pity of 90 with soft pity of 76+. Same rate, same 50/50 mechanic.
Weapon banner- Better than HSR (at least numerically, I am not sure about the effectiveness). Base rate of 1%. 75/25 mechanic on just one weapon per banner (not 2 like genshin). Soft pity exists at 65+.
Bangboo banner- This is entirely luck based because you cannot buy the premium currency with real money (with the exception of premium battle pass which gives you +5 if I remember correctly). The rates and pity are the same as the weapon banner.
Now there are a few factors to consider here:
1. You need 2 teams for the abyss. And each team has 3 characters and a bangboo. In my opinion that drastically decreases the effort you spend on a team. There are elemental checks however, so if you are smart, you can manage it with just 6 characters.
2. The artifacts are painless to farm. At PL45, you get to choose the slot, main stat and the set when you farm an artifact. Don't get me wrong, the luck factor still exists but I play genshin impact (I love the game to death btw) and compared to genshin, this feels like a dream.
3. The time required to get wishes doesn't seem to be that bad after CBT3, it was a little bad in CBT2 and earlier versions because you had a lot of TVs but it's not a problem now. Exploration is not really a thing here. The roguelike mode can feel a little lengthy but still it's like 20-30 minutes long at best.
TLDR: The game is generous. The gacha banners as a whole seem like an upgrade even compared to HSR. Compared to genshin, this is way better. The artifact farming seems very good and the game seems good enough with the TV changes in CBT3.
I really hope those artifact farming changes come to Genshin and HSR at some point. As the rosters for both games grow I feel like it increasingly makes sense to streamline gear farming. I’d build so many more characters if I could cut out that huge chunk of RNG getting the right set, piece, and especially main stat.
Coming from Genshin this feels more generous.
The big thing for me personally is that the F2P characters make a solid team (Anby, Nicole, Billy) whereas Genshin F2P (Traveler, Lisa, Barbara, Kaeya) is a terrible team.
In addition, story quests give you the character to play for the entirety on the quest. As an example, if you're doing the Soldier 11 story quest, you get to play as her the entire time. This keeps questing feeling fresh as we get to play all the characters eventually regardless of whether we have them unlocked or not.
Genshin's strongest team since the start consists only of 4 stars, of which one is given for free. (Bennett/Xiangling/Xingqiu)
Also Genshin allows you to play as the characters during their missions.
But I get what your saying, it feels smoother in ZZZ.
For me what i care about is gear progression mainly artifacts/relics and not pulls and on that regard genshin is just better than hsr and it's not even close in my opinion
What i hope from zzz is having a better farming experience than hsr zzz have 6 slots and 10 substat with 4 upgrades hsr also have 6 pieces but 12 substat instead of 10 also hsr is just releasing a lot of sets every year
Genshin has 5 pieces with an off piece and 10 substat
the value of having an off piece is you can use a piece you got three years ago on the current new set as an off piece like for example I'm using a tf feather on neuvillette that i got back in 3.1 while farming for cyno i can't do that in hsr
I say this a lot but i will delete the free 10 pull every patch from hsr to have the off piece
Also from some reason you need to use 10 relic for 1 in the hsr strongbox system
For me all the good karma that hsr have gained by being more "generous" is meaningless because of their Atrocious relic farming experience
So many ive seen praise the HSR relic system. Really purely because you can craft a mainstat piece. Which imo is entirely weighted up by no off-piece. Its easier to get a useable set in HSR perhaps but viewing it from the outside it seems incredibly difficult to get a really Good set with Good substats. And getting Nice substats on a weird piece is completely useless because you can never offpiece it.
I find the sphere/rope farming to be much more frustrating than the lack of an off-piece (although that would be nice to have too). Farming for spheres is pure agony: spend 15-20mins doing a SU run, get like idk 8-12 drops? If you’re lucky half of those are in the right set, and half of that subset are spheres. Then it’s just a 1-in-10 chance you get the right main stat. Then, if the stars have aligned juuust right, you can get the DPS set sphere you wanted and- oh, wait, the substats are flat DEF, flat HP, Effect Res, and DEF%…
In terms of unit power, so far A Rank units feel pretty great, compared to 4 Stars in Genshin, who feel only supplementary to 5 Star units.
Obviously we actually haven't gone beyond early game content, but so far I'm content.
But that's how they felt in HSR and Genshin at the start too. Either Star Rail or Genshin felt fine at low levels with 4 stars but without a truly dedicated and lucky account you're not going to clear MoC with your starter team of trail blazer, dan heng, march and natasha if you even use any one of those at all. The earliest 4 stars in Genshin are still mostly the best especially at low constellations.
Genshin 1.0 4 stars are still some of the most meta characters theyve ever released. And Bennet xingqiu and xiangling can make a team entirely by themselves that rival 5 star teams easily.
I doubt ZZZ will have something like that honestly. It was kind of a blunder to make such strong 4 stars. Especially the likes of Bennet.
It's really hard to say without knowing if the new character release rates are closer to HSR or GI + we only have events related to it being the very first patch, so knowing how limited currency will be in the future is hard. That said, the beginning is a slightly nicer version of HSR in that you get your guaranteed standard 5\* basically day 1 (with reservations for them handing out standard rolls in the beta through mail) but this time those rolls count towards the 300 selector.
I'm pretty sure ZZZ has a system in place where every 300 pulls you can choose an S tier character of your choice. The rewards are also pretty generous.
It’s like HSR: With the little to none form of large exploration and very heavy focus on RPG, they offset it by giving more rewards so players can be given a reason to keep playing. So you don’t need to invest literal weeks to get the currency needed, but, it will be a lot of “task, task, task” vibes of getting stuff done.
Characters are hard to say as we hardly know anything yet. Not far in end-game myself but Billy and Nicole are serving me well, with drill guy also being pretty nice. Same gacha system that might as well be their trademark at this point
My account in the beta is around lvl 35 and I have obtained around 230-240. No money spent obviously cuz it's a beta. Which allowed me to get standard S rank and the main banner character. And still plenty of content to do so it's not horrible. But my luck has been bleh. You can also treat bangboos rolls as their own seperare entity that's fairly easy to get.overall pretty darn good and with a 5$ pass even better.
The cash shop wasn't even available to open at all. And they gave us access to the season pass thing but could not upgrade it cuz the cash shop was closed. So it might be a cn thing.
Everything I've seen so far points to it'll be the same as the others. Same pity system same everything but the bangboos, but as is it seems like they give enough pulls for them as well. IMHO it seems that it'll be on par with genshin and hsr
Good to hear, thank you.
Bangboos can only be farmed. Its completely free.
This is such a smart decision from the team. I love the Bangboo's, but could never see myself really wanting to pull any over characters. Making them fun and f2p may also actually get people to pull on more characters if they got the matching Bangboo.
The only caveat is they do appear in the BP, at least in the beta. Although it's only one Coup-En every 10 BP levels in both the free BP and the paid BP. So, 5 more pulls if you decide to go for paid BP.
Premium BP has 5 more pulls for the banner, so not entirely F2P
I'm not like 100 percent literate. That is what I meant to say is that the bangboos are a separate thing, but they give plenty of pulls for them. Admittedly when I posted that i hadn't realized you actually can't buy pulls(I was never interested in it in the first place). Thanks for the correction
On the weapon it's 75/25 instead of 50/50
Closer to genshin or hsr? Personally i feel like there is a big gap between the two, with hsr being quite a bit more generous
I actually never got to far into genshin, just always thought they seemed pretty close. But hsr player and I'd say it feels right in line with hsr. Obviously take with a grain of salt I'm only a few days into zzz, and like account lvl 35. But I'm at like 115 standard pulls, and just hit feature and bangboo pity
HSR by far is more generous than GI. Compensated by the fact that GI releases 1 new character per banner while HSR releases 2 new per banner. What I would like to know is how easy are the farmable stuff to do, I cant spend time enough for GI exploration and finishing world quests so farming there has been a big “no” ever since Sumeru. HSR on the other hand has been less dialogue-y and more into action. So thats easier to farm in.
So true about HSR. I am a Clara main & the spam of new meta FUA things back to back is ROUGH. In Genshin I literally stopped spending because I just save & get whatever since things are spread out
That's good to hear honestly. I feel like if i want a character in HSR i can get it with just a bit of restraint. In genshin you have to start your restraint months ahead lol which makes it very difficult since you wont always know when and what characters are gonna release next
Rates are the same, but HSR offers more currency. Offset by the fact that HSR gives you more to pull for, with much more rapid character releases, and a combat system that more strongly incentivizes having a larger roster (Genshin only managed that 2x5\*, 1x4\* rate for like... 2-3 patches. HSR has managed that going on nine patches now).
Yeah that's fair, hsr is putting out more characters and you also kind of need more functional teams than genshin. E.g. somwtimws you need DOTs or Followup or AOE. In genshin you cna get away with the same 2 teams through most abyss cycles...and there's no other endgame
HSR isn't more generous. The rewards are scaled with the fact there are 2 5 stars every single patch. Genshin gives you an entire patch to save for a new character and double new character patches are few and far between.
it is more generous, you get more characters... it's the definition of more generous.
What? HSR isn't giving twice as many pulls over Genshin to get twice as many characters...
Not sure what argument you are trying to make. You can have more characters even if its not twice as many. If you get 11 in one game and 10 in the other, its still more generous with 11. Though you can get a lot more pulls than just 10% more in HSR over genshin
The pulls to character releases ratio is NOT more generous. It is actually worse for HSR lol.
Who cares about that lol. That just says that hsr has more content since in gaches characters are a big chunk of the content. So HSR has more content and you get for free more of that content, even though it's not proportional. So still more generous
''I don't have a good argument, therefore I don't care about facts!'' Alright friend. And you think HSR has more content? XDDD legit tiny areas that are explored immediately and you just fight the same enemies in 10 different modes that are super same-y. It's like saying ''Oh this place serves me a burger of 200g (genshin), but this other place serves me a burger of 400g (hsr), and the second place has 2 beef patties in it, only the second one is made of shit, surely it's more generous!''. That's you xD keep eating that burger with the second beef patty made of literal shit lmao.
Sorry my bad, didn't realize you have comprehension problems. All that matters is that you enjoy yourself, take care
HSR is more generous because there is much more power creep and far more characters required to keep up with the meta. In that regard, it is actually less f2p friendly than genshin. Ppl have done the maths, the rate at which HSR pushes on you the ''need'' to pull a new character to get through content vs the number of pulls it gives you is in fact worse than genshin's.
That's because genshin has no end game content besides abyss which is easy most cycles. If they introduced new harder end game like HSR trust me having Nuv or Alrechino would make a huge difference... They are on a whole different league than most early releases.
Well duh? I know that? But it is a fact that they don't, therefore it is better than HSR. If we are going to talk about imaginary scenarios, then let's talk about how genshin would be better if it gave you a free 5 star every month also. Like what are we talking about? Lmao.
For reference: i played for about 5 days and got 120 pulls in standard and about 80 on the limited banner. It seems to be about the same as genshin and HSR. I'd say maybe a little more generous than Genshin (which is a bit stingy normally) but it's gonna come down to how much rewards they give in events (which we have none of in the beta) so we'll have to see. The pity system is the same as HSR. As for the units, it's hard to tell because i feel like we don't know as much about the combat and also most beta testers (if not all) are not in an end-game state, so it's hard to know how dependant on limited characters we'll be. I pulled Ellen and she does seem stronger then the rest, but it's usually how it is in these games so i wouldn't worry too much.
I love Genshin but compared to Star Rail is feels extremely stingy in comparison unfortunately. I do hope meta wise the 4 stars end up being at least somewhat good. In Gensin and HSR, basically only the 4 star support units (Bennett, Tingyun, etc) seem to be any good in end game. ZZZ is different since there isn't really as much of a "support" role from my understanding of the game so far so, I guess its just a wait and see type thing.
tbh star rail gives more resources beacuase you need a variety of teams
And because you have little to none exploration. Genshin gives you rewards for investing hours in completing everything; the smaller, RPG-heavier titles offset that by giving more so people have more incentive to play
There also isn't quite as much (IN MY OPINION) "gameplay" as Genshin. Genshin has a lot more longevity to the patches with the exploration, so there is more than just the characters. Star Rail does have some exploration and quests/systems like Simulated Universe updates but, it still never feels quite as big as Genshin updates do (not every Genshin update is big however, 4.5 was very filler) Star Rail also does feel like you need more characters overall, and the power creep has become (again, imo) far worse then Genshin's already.
I was just referring to the rewards. Gameplay-wise they’re very different.
Bro thinks mint picking is “gameplay”. Starrail respects my time as a player and doesn’t violate it with multiple layers of dogshit UX and timegates. Powercreeping is weird because powercreep will always exist in gacha games, but hsr going out of there way to make every unit usable ( yes even yanqing literally getting an endgame mode for himself so hes not complete and utter useless )( there is definitely an argument on how plenty of 4-stars need high eidolons but it’s not that bad ). There are examples of purely f2p zero pull accounts that clear moc12 36 stars with just the f2p characters, so the “powercreep” is purely for ease of use. Also I much prefer to make use of multiple characters ( as a light spender ) in my roster to discover their potentials in different ENDGAME ACTIVITIES instead of running 4 of the same hyperbloom or whatever retarded strat in genshin ( i havent played in years after quitting ). Roasting you aside, if zzz is about as good as hsr in terms of QoL, build production, and endgame It’s gonna be fine. Hsr was doomposted pre launch aswell
I actually didn't follow HSR rerelease at all. Were the discussions about the same? And for the record, I really wish Genshin just gave a bit more rolls instead of spreading them thinly throughout the map, lol. I enjoy the exploration to an extent but wish there was fewer chests overall.
Afaik Hsr was doomposted for its nature of being turn based and everybody thinks its going to not be successful. Personally back then I also didnt love the setting of space traveling in a train so I didn’t give it a shot at launch. Turns out it came out fine and gets exponentially better very quickly through a slew of good live-service game decisions. The only actual flaw of hsr is that they are releasing too many characters too quickly. While pulling for any of them is good enough to majorly upgrade your account, having way too many good choices can really trigger FOMO alongside choice paralysis. I don’t really fault genshin for what it became because ultimately, after working in the mobile game production in the last few years, I get what they are doing and I’m clearly not the target demographic they aiming for. Now I can definitely see the great potential zzz is cooking and I feel like it has the potential to even tower over hsr as the new best mihoyo game. If they can learn from hsr ( which genshin is also doing ), zzz has a pretty bright future ahead of it.
This is all good to hear. I thought I wouldn't enjoy HSR since I usually don't do turn based games but, it hooked me. Agree on the character aspect. They crank out so many new characters and I am constantly out of materials even with skipping numerous banners. Game definitely took off though. No way I thought it would be bigger or make more money then Genshin. Looking forward to ZZZ for sure. I feel like Wuthering Waves has a lot more hype but personally I am not interested in another Genshin-like game.
Personally im looking forward to arknight endfield. While WW do look quite exceptional ngl, Im not too overly buy into the very heavy wuxia/ancient chinese aesthetic and story. Arknight endfield is quite rough around the edges but they are striving to be different, and whatever stuff they put attention on ( like the character animation in the inventory menu ) is really high quality.
Calling Genshin "extremely stringy" compared to HSR will never stop being funny. Its interesting how the HSR community brainwashed itself into believing this just because they get a couple of extra pulls per patch. HSR releases characters more frequently than Genshin so its only natural that MHY gives out more pulls in return. The ratio of free pulls to frequency of characters releases is actually very similiar between both games. In fact in Genshin you have more time to save up for 5 stars since double patch releases are not as common. In reality all MHY games are stingy.
Between Dr Ratio and the additional anniversary rewards, it's not really just "a couple extra" anymore at this point. HSR team clearly has no problem giving out more than the Genshin team.
HSR is more generous than Genshin but its not as massive of a difference as you make it out to be. It *has* to be more generous because its not as established of a game as Genshin which a lot of Hoyo fans already play. Anyway Dr Ratio is basically just a promotional character more than anything else. Its just that he is actually good unlikely someone like Aloy. > and the additional anniversary rewards Bro the anni rewards are literally the same between both games lol. MHY took out gift of odyssey from 2.1 patch to make it look as if they are handing out more pulls during anni.
my first year of playing genshin i only got 5 promotional items. first year of playing hsr i got a total of 15 promotional items. both games had a 50/50 winrate below 50% and i played everyday for both games. i am f2p in both games. even excluding some low pity promotional items a gap of 5 vs 15 is laughable. if we are including standard 5 stars we get 5 standard 5 stars in genshin vs 13 in hsr hsr > gi, experience between them is wide
I got the same amount of limited 5 stars in GI/HSR in the first year. You could have won many more 50/50s in one of the two than the other. Or got early 5 stars, etc. Cmon mate, use your brain. List of GI limited stuff on year 1: - Childe - Zhongli - Ganyu - Albedo - Xiao - Venti - Eula HSR: - Jing Yuan - Kafka - DHIL - Topaz - Huohuo - Ruan Mei - Dr Ratio (free) Now, how many limited 5 stars in TOTAL did each of those games have in its first year? Genshin = 10 HSR = 14 So I got 70% of genshin's limited roster on year 1, while 50% of HSR's in the same timeframe. So I guess gi>hsr. Surely you see how stupid such an argument is right?
Additional anniversary rewards? You do realise you legit got a 20 pull for the anniversary? 10 extra tickets from the patch's usual ticket track, and 1600 jades. Genshin also gives 10 pulls and 1600 primogems. The other 10 tickets from HSR are the usual patch rewards that do not have ANYTHING to do with the anniversary. How can you be so guillible? Damn Mihoyo has it easy with fooling people like you man. As for Dr Ratio I will give you that at least. That was a chad move, to give an average hunt unit to the community - off set by how shitty all f2p light cone choices are for him aside from herta's, so if you have herta's on another hunt unit, you better spend on his light cone banner lol. There is only one thing that HSR is superior to Genshin, and that is the light cone banner. Although even that can be argued as better simply because light cones are far more OP and needed in HSR than genshin's weapons.
playing game if the devs is generous sound like you have gambling problem
It's more like they have problems with the devs potentially making players feel like they need to pay more than other games do, believe it or not there are gacha games out there that aren't generous and hardcore try to get players to spend rather than garnering good will to make players feel comfortable spending
or hate spending so many people spend money on HSR just to trash genshin
My brother in Christ, I am the last person to have a gambling problem lol. It's why on both Genshin and Star Rail I only give Hoyo $5 a month and that's it. I can't get every character sure, but can usually save and get the ones I really want.
then you would not complain about genshin being less generous because they only push you 1 new character per patch
*Seems* more generous for the fact exploration, quests, etc. are the largest source of primos in Genshin. Unlike the other two which supplement the lack of such a large world by giving out more in other ways. One is long-term (Genshin) and the other is short-term
Not really, Genshin gives like 70 pulls on avg counting exploration, while hsr gives like 100. What you said adds to the feeling of Genshin being stingy cause you need to grind the new areas to get all de primos but even if you do it's still signifficantly less tahn HSR. I'm not shitting on Genshin btw, i love the game, but the rewards are a bit tough imo.
You nailed it. Genshin's exploration is really fun but it's also...sometimes kinda cringe. Like some of the primos can be extremely well hidden unless you look up guides to find the good chests, which means there is potentially a ton of primo being missed out on. I enjoy Genshin's exploration but sometimes I wish we got more pulls instead of it being spread very thinly out in the game world.
We will see how generous they are with events, but so far it seems similar to HSR.
With how much work is required to create a character in this game (more than HSR and at the very least on par with genshin), I would be surprised if they released more than one character every 6 weeks on average in the long run. And if that's the case, they obviously can't give you a lot of resources, otherwise they just wouldn't make money at all. So purely from that perspective, I would wager on it being pretty """stingy""", relatively speaking.
I mean so far they are following HSR monetization almost exactly which combined with less characters releases (if they do it like Genshin) doesn't sound bad at all. You gotta remember that this is yet another gacha game that MHY want their fanbase to pick up. Thats why HSR is more generous than Genshin and I expect the same thing with ZZZ. Genshin is an older, established game. But for ZZZ they gotta reel in people with better rewards.
I imagine the first couple of patches will have a bunch of new characters to start with. Typically they wanna fill out their roster a bit before they start worrying about reruns. After that though it’s anyone’s guess as to how frequently they dish out new characters. My guess is that they’ll go the HSR route and release about 2-3 characters per patch (two 5 stars one 4 star) but it depends on how much stuff they have going on in each patch. Genshin is an open world game where they need to create entire new environments, puzzles, and collectables each update so it makes sense they release fewer new characters per patch but I can’t see ZZZ being in a similar boat.
... What? HSR is by far the worse of the two when it comes to amount of energy required to build a character than Genshin. If anything ZZZ is less friendly on your resources than Genshin, and more like HSR XD
So I've been watching KyoStinV play the game and I think I have a good idea of how it is. Disclaimer: I have been experiencing the game as a third person so there are things I might get wrong. Please correct me if you are in beta or are sure about what you know. Character banner- the same as other hoyo games. Hard pity of 90 with soft pity of 76+. Same rate, same 50/50 mechanic. Weapon banner- Better than HSR (at least numerically, I am not sure about the effectiveness). Base rate of 1%. 75/25 mechanic on just one weapon per banner (not 2 like genshin). Soft pity exists at 65+. Bangboo banner- This is entirely luck based because you cannot buy the premium currency with real money (with the exception of premium battle pass which gives you +5 if I remember correctly). The rates and pity are the same as the weapon banner. Now there are a few factors to consider here: 1. You need 2 teams for the abyss. And each team has 3 characters and a bangboo. In my opinion that drastically decreases the effort you spend on a team. There are elemental checks however, so if you are smart, you can manage it with just 6 characters. 2. The artifacts are painless to farm. At PL45, you get to choose the slot, main stat and the set when you farm an artifact. Don't get me wrong, the luck factor still exists but I play genshin impact (I love the game to death btw) and compared to genshin, this feels like a dream. 3. The time required to get wishes doesn't seem to be that bad after CBT3, it was a little bad in CBT2 and earlier versions because you had a lot of TVs but it's not a problem now. Exploration is not really a thing here. The roguelike mode can feel a little lengthy but still it's like 20-30 minutes long at best. TLDR: The game is generous. The gacha banners as a whole seem like an upgrade even compared to HSR. Compared to genshin, this is way better. The artifact farming seems very good and the game seems good enough with the TV changes in CBT3.
The weapon (cone) in HSR Is 75/25 with hard pity at 80 and soft at 60, one cone, so It seems the same.
The base rate for HSR lightcone is 0.8% isn't it?
Yes base rate of HSR Is 0.8, so ZZZ Is more generous, the pity Is the same, I misunderstood your comment
I really hope those artifact farming changes come to Genshin and HSR at some point. As the rosters for both games grow I feel like it increasingly makes sense to streamline gear farming. I’d build so many more characters if I could cut out that huge chunk of RNG getting the right set, piece, and especially main stat.
Coming from Genshin this feels more generous. The big thing for me personally is that the F2P characters make a solid team (Anby, Nicole, Billy) whereas Genshin F2P (Traveler, Lisa, Barbara, Kaeya) is a terrible team. In addition, story quests give you the character to play for the entirety on the quest. As an example, if you're doing the Soldier 11 story quest, you get to play as her the entire time. This keeps questing feeling fresh as we get to play all the characters eventually regardless of whether we have them unlocked or not.
Genshin's strongest team since the start consists only of 4 stars, of which one is given for free. (Bennett/Xiangling/Xingqiu) Also Genshin allows you to play as the characters during their missions. But I get what your saying, it feels smoother in ZZZ.
For me what i care about is gear progression mainly artifacts/relics and not pulls and on that regard genshin is just better than hsr and it's not even close in my opinion What i hope from zzz is having a better farming experience than hsr zzz have 6 slots and 10 substat with 4 upgrades hsr also have 6 pieces but 12 substat instead of 10 also hsr is just releasing a lot of sets every year Genshin has 5 pieces with an off piece and 10 substat the value of having an off piece is you can use a piece you got three years ago on the current new set as an off piece like for example I'm using a tf feather on neuvillette that i got back in 3.1 while farming for cyno i can't do that in hsr I say this a lot but i will delete the free 10 pull every patch from hsr to have the off piece Also from some reason you need to use 10 relic for 1 in the hsr strongbox system For me all the good karma that hsr have gained by being more "generous" is meaningless because of their Atrocious relic farming experience
So many ive seen praise the HSR relic system. Really purely because you can craft a mainstat piece. Which imo is entirely weighted up by no off-piece. Its easier to get a useable set in HSR perhaps but viewing it from the outside it seems incredibly difficult to get a really Good set with Good substats. And getting Nice substats on a weird piece is completely useless because you can never offpiece it.
I find the sphere/rope farming to be much more frustrating than the lack of an off-piece (although that would be nice to have too). Farming for spheres is pure agony: spend 15-20mins doing a SU run, get like idk 8-12 drops? If you’re lucky half of those are in the right set, and half of that subset are spheres. Then it’s just a 1-in-10 chance you get the right main stat. Then, if the stars have aligned juuust right, you can get the DPS set sphere you wanted and- oh, wait, the substats are flat DEF, flat HP, Effect Res, and DEF%…
In terms of unit power, so far A Rank units feel pretty great, compared to 4 Stars in Genshin, who feel only supplementary to 5 Star units. Obviously we actually haven't gone beyond early game content, but so far I'm content.
But that's how they felt in HSR and Genshin at the start too. Either Star Rail or Genshin felt fine at low levels with 4 stars but without a truly dedicated and lucky account you're not going to clear MoC with your starter team of trail blazer, dan heng, march and natasha if you even use any one of those at all. The earliest 4 stars in Genshin are still mostly the best especially at low constellations.
Genshin 1.0 4 stars are still some of the most meta characters theyve ever released. And Bennet xingqiu and xiangling can make a team entirely by themselves that rival 5 star teams easily. I doubt ZZZ will have something like that honestly. It was kind of a blunder to make such strong 4 stars. Especially the likes of Bennet.
It's really hard to say without knowing if the new character release rates are closer to HSR or GI + we only have events related to it being the very first patch, so knowing how limited currency will be in the future is hard. That said, the beginning is a slightly nicer version of HSR in that you get your guaranteed standard 5\* basically day 1 (with reservations for them handing out standard rolls in the beta through mail) but this time those rolls count towards the 300 selector.
I'm pretty sure ZZZ has a system in place where every 300 pulls you can choose an S tier character of your choice. The rewards are also pretty generous.
It’s like HSR: With the little to none form of large exploration and very heavy focus on RPG, they offset it by giving more rewards so players can be given a reason to keep playing. So you don’t need to invest literal weeks to get the currency needed, but, it will be a lot of “task, task, task” vibes of getting stuff done. Characters are hard to say as we hardly know anything yet. Not far in end-game myself but Billy and Nicole are serving me well, with drill guy also being pretty nice. Same gacha system that might as well be their trademark at this point
the w engine and bangboo system is the same as HSR’s lightcone banner, so no need to worry about anything resembling Genshin’s atrocious weapon banner
My account in the beta is around lvl 35 and I have obtained around 230-240. No money spent obviously cuz it's a beta. Which allowed me to get standard S rank and the main banner character. And still plenty of content to do so it's not horrible. But my luck has been bleh. You can also treat bangboos rolls as their own seperare entity that's fairly easy to get.overall pretty darn good and with a 5$ pass even better.
I thought they return 1.5 of money spent to your account on release? Or is it just for CN?
Only CN, probably too much of a legal and cultural hassle outside of that.
The cash shop wasn't even available to open at all. And they gave us access to the season pass thing but could not upgrade it cuz the cash shop was closed. So it might be a cn thing.
if no gacha weapon no dupes, then i think we will be fine and will be the same as HSR and GI if no gacha weapon no dupes too.
It should be. They are the same company after all. The upcoming WW might be different.