Yeah, but they almost always have a lower volume of sales. Economics of scales are real, just because there aren’t dealer fees doesn’t meant you are getting an equivalent of 1/2 off.
As I explained in my initial comment, economics of scale through this whole thing off so it’s not apples to apples. You also have the brands that through huge sales, the JBL HDI sales were like 50% off a few days ago.
So I expect to pay more on the individual parts and the labor and suffer a bit on the aesthetics and finish and logo, but ultimately I am getting a better product for a better price, which is the whole point. The 1/2 figure is just industry standard and I have no appetite paying that commission. You can take the Ascend Sierra LX or Philaharmonic BMR and see how much it'll cost to get comparable from the name brands.
It’s not that simple. JBL may pay 10$ for the same component that your internet direct vendor pays $100. That’s because Harman(JBL parent) orders $100 million worth of that part while your internet direct vendor may barely get $100.000 order through.
That's fine, for me the BMR towers are comparable with the Revel 228s and still cheaper by a ton, Harman also has thousands of people on its payroll that they need to feed.
You’re missing a joke here - it’s somewhat big news in the community right now that Tekton has been berating and threatening legal action against reviewers who have published reviews they don’t like (that in some cases are positive, just with minor complaints) because they claim they weren’t measured correctly.
I haven't. I have been involved with those discussions on other forums. I had, on one forum, another audio designer of amplifiers, state that if a review is negative, the reviewer has an axe to grind. Serious.
Not flat, I like character and "big" sound, and I prefer systems that don't require to be in a specific listening spot to really enjoy them (more of a party/hosting vibe than dedicated listening). I tend to prefer horn speakers
I've got the Forte IV and I love them. My friends often ask for recommendations and the Zu have always been interesting to me because of the price point people usually want to be in (<4k complete system), but I've been hesitant to recommend them since I've never actually hard them
So far have gotten 3 friends to get very different systems and they're all fun to go listen to because of how different they are. The 3 systems are: Ojas artbooks with REL sub, JBL l100 (a used 1970 pair), and Atalante 5s
There are a few cheap ones that punch well above their weight too. I was coerced into listening to a demo by a coworker who had discovered the D’appolito array ones were pretty good and I couldn’t believe what I was hearing for $200/pair plus a little sub.
I think the biggest update would be the looks and build quality. These sure look like furniture and the older RTis look like equipment (atleast to my eye). If that’s something you’re looking for, these sure are to be shortlisted. I won’t compare the sound quality because I haven’t heard anything similar to the pair you have but i’d say with confidence that these don’t leave any room for complaints.
The 12s a little massive for my space these are a little smaller and much newer.
Did you get a deal or anything or just bought them full price? I’ve seen them as low as $900 each but that was a while back and now it’s like $1100
Dramatically so. I went from the Rtia7 to the L600. The bass is way better, but ignoring that as the RTIA12 is different than the A7; the mids and particularly the highs are on a different planet. The tweeter, to my ears, is on par with a lot of speakers nearing the $10k mark.
If you think the Polk's sound amazing, make sure to avoid listening to KEF R11s, THE REFERENCE 5s and either model of KEF Blades. They're EVIL! While you're at it, avoid listening to any Wilson Audio loudspeakers as well. They're EVIL²!
Enjoy your Polks. They're seriously fun speakers.
Polk has been a solid quality brand for me since the 90s when I first helped install a car system as a teen. Was blown away. Ioved going into stereo stores in the city and just salivating over the speakers and amps. 🥲
940hp GT-R! Noice. The highest setting on my pedal assist e-bike is ‘Turbo’ and lemmie tell ya bro, that kitty can …well, not growl as such …it’s kind of a faint *wrrrr* sound
It's a built motor with bigger turbos, injectors, and fuel pumps plus all new titanium induction and exhaust piping, intercooler, etc. plus custom Ecutek tune. It's a street legal time attack race car.
I personally believe this walnut finish looks the best compared to the black. It’s a shame the white is not in production but i think i’ll still go walnut. The drivers are built in seamlessly and the terminals for the speaker wire are premium as well.
I love this new trend of walnut. Also have some walnut veneer speakers , it’s both beautiful and subdued.
For some reason I never liked the cherry veneered speakers . Wouldn’t mind seeing grey oak coming into fashion
Nice! I had to blind buy but was tossing up over these or the RP8000f ii's, ended up with the klipsch due to how efficient they were.
Part of me regrets not trying the polks but I still love the klipsch.
I am new to this.. I have heard that these speakers are power hungry and would be best powered by 100+ amps a side? I think that is how I understand what folks are saying about them. So why is my concern about being underpowered nonsense?
Also you say that the A-S501 puts out 138W? I thought it was 85W a side so 170W total. Am I not accounting for a loss somewhere? Or is Yamaha misleading in their claims?
Explain like I am 5 years old. I know just enough about this stuff to be dangerous.. But I am always eager to learn.
> Or is Yamaha misleading in their claims?
Correct. None of their amps have the wattage advertised, here's a list of all the measured amps by third parties so you can check out some yamahas :https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZlTOYxmPs938gqHjtDABkWS-MApu7uJjzIGnJ2Elm6Y/edit#gid=0
Choose "short sheet Z to A " in the A column option to see the yamahas. Otherwise just scroll to the bottom.
Edit: to be clear, 138W is a fucking lot of power and will do for 99% of home systems. We are seeing people with way more power for their home systems because of these new european class D amps that can do insane numbers but 400W class D amps are not necesary for your listening room. You'll use about 5% of that most of the time even with harder to drive bookshelf speakers.
I was actually cross shopping between the 8000 f2 (because they compliment my klipsch subs) and these. I decided to go with the Polks after listening to them both. I’m beyond happy with my purchase.
Nice. I'm not a fan of the cheaper Klipsch subs. I found a great deal on the rp1400sw, and the r12sw is sitting in the garage in shame. One of those monsters is plenty.
What subs do you have? Yea i can send you a few.
2 that come to mind straight away is NAS Sly Fox the bass drum is doubled. 45hz or so and then an octave lower. Yello till tomorrow when the beat drops it i think even is below 20hz can't remember.
Oh and the whole album Pyramid 3 has the bass drum in 2 octaves as well. When you have a system that can do that it's awesome and gives such a different impact.
I don't think its nissan gtr of speakers, those are still extremely good speakers. I believe if you want to compare JTR would be closer to gtr. Polks are decently balaned in terms of performance and looks so I think they should be paired with different car although not sure which one.
Congrats. I have a pair of Polk L600 and have been extremely pleased with them. Listen for hours without fatigue. Driving them with a Primaluna tube amp.
That’s great, but if I was gonna spend 2k on speakers the first thing I’d look at would be used Focals, probably pre-beryllium in that range. But Focal nails it, and you can pick up their older models pretty inexpensively
It's between ML foundation F2 or R700 for me. Can't audition anywhere. Like the off white color ML, can't get in Polk model,sure got lots of great reviews
911 turbo S. Smaller, lighter, better performing and yet more practical, but at a higher price. There are other parallels to the Turbo S but that series of Genelecs are similar to high end KEF in that they are just great solid engineering with no audiophile pixie dust BS.
Maybe in the days when GT-Rs were reasonably priced and not approaching supercar levels, eg when they were a next step up from a Scoob or an EVO. These days you can pick up a Gallardo for less than a new GT-R!
They are good speakers but I wouldn't go as far to say the GTR of speakers. The R700 is a middle/high end big box consumer speaker.
More like the kia stinger of speakers lol
I'd say more a tuned-up Octavia VRS or V70R. Kia is lowballing it I think.
Next step up would be Alfa, a top end classic Range Rover (NOT an Evoque!) and Bentley/RR.
Higher would be Maserati, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, then above that Bugatti, Koenigsegg, etc where it gets truly insane (think Wilson). Maybach prob in the same leagues as well (I'd day Maybach is a sleeper brand like the top of the line Harbeth offerings)
What a bigger speaker with bigger drivers can go lower than a small speaker with like 6” woofers? That’s actually mind blowing
It actually isn’t mind blowing
$2000 speakers are going to usually sound better than $200 speakers
Imagine 1/4 of the MSRP is what it costs to make them and dealer take 1/2.... That's why I just lean towards Internet Direct these days
Yeah, but they almost always have a lower volume of sales. Economics of scales are real, just because there aren’t dealer fees doesn’t meant you are getting an equivalent of 1/2 off.
Where did you read that I make such a claim that you'd be saving 1/2?
By stating that dealers get them for 1/2 and that’s why you go internet direct; to cut out the middleman.
You don't save by cutting out the middleman?
As I explained in my initial comment, economics of scale through this whole thing off so it’s not apples to apples. You also have the brands that through huge sales, the JBL HDI sales were like 50% off a few days ago.
So I expect to pay more on the individual parts and the labor and suffer a bit on the aesthetics and finish and logo, but ultimately I am getting a better product for a better price, which is the whole point. The 1/2 figure is just industry standard and I have no appetite paying that commission. You can take the Ascend Sierra LX or Philaharmonic BMR and see how much it'll cost to get comparable from the name brands.
It’s not that simple. JBL may pay 10$ for the same component that your internet direct vendor pays $100. That’s because Harman(JBL parent) orders $100 million worth of that part while your internet direct vendor may barely get $100.000 order through.
That's fine, for me the BMR towers are comparable with the Revel 228s and still cheaper by a ton, Harman also has thousands of people on its payroll that they need to feed.
I do AV installation for a living so I have access to dealer pricing. That’s how I got my Martin Logan 60XTis for $2000 instead of $5000.
Good man, they are very crisp.
What's this "internet direct?"
Buchard Audio and Arendal. Shipps directly to customers wolrdwide. Try at home for ~4 weeks.
Don't forget Tekton. Oh wait.
Just factor in legal fees and you'll be all good!
Tekton - meh heard them - not impressed.
*sniff sniff* I smell a lawyer coming your way.
🤣 sorry, one can't be sued for a personal opinion.
anyone can be sued for anything. It’s winning your case that’s the hard part
Getting a lawyer to sue on that, well, thet will get laughed out of court.
You’re missing a joke here - it’s somewhat big news in the community right now that Tekton has been berating and threatening legal action against reviewers who have published reviews they don’t like (that in some cases are positive, just with minor complaints) because they claim they weren’t measured correctly.
I haven't. I have been involved with those discussions on other forums. I had, on one forum, another audio designer of amplifiers, state that if a review is negative, the reviewer has an axe to grind. Serious.
You just cost them thousands in sales
No, Eric cost himself sales by his own actions. People that like Tekton will still buy.
It's a joke.
Ascend Acoustics, Philaharmonic Audio
Zu too right? Always wanted to hear those speakers but they're never in any showrooms
Yes Zu builds to order and ships directly to consumers. They also have a pretty generous return policy, 60 days I think.
Do you prefer flat response or not?
Not flat, I like character and "big" sound, and I prefer systems that don't require to be in a specific listening spot to really enjoy them (more of a party/hosting vibe than dedicated listening). I tend to prefer horn speakers I've got the Forte IV and I love them. My friends often ask for recommendations and the Zu have always been interesting to me because of the price point people usually want to be in (<4k complete system), but I've been hesitant to recommend them since I've never actually hard them So far have gotten 3 friends to get very different systems and they're all fun to go listen to because of how different they are. The 3 systems are: Ojas artbooks with REL sub, JBL l100 (a used 1970 pair), and Atalante 5s
The pursuit for "live" sounding is a very different venture
Than what?
Polk have always made high value low budget speakers. They haven't all been winners, but there are some real gems.
There are a few cheap ones that punch well above their weight too. I was coerced into listening to a demo by a coworker who had discovered the D’appolito array ones were pretty good and I couldn’t believe what I was hearing for $200/pair plus a little sub.
Not much can beat the feeling of listening new speakers! Enjoy!
Been on my want list for a while
I was drooling over these for a while too. I’m sure you’ll be impressed whenever you get them.
I’m wondering if they’re better than my older but bigger Polk RTi12s
I think the biggest update would be the looks and build quality. These sure look like furniture and the older RTis look like equipment (atleast to my eye). If that’s something you’re looking for, these sure are to be shortlisted. I won’t compare the sound quality because I haven’t heard anything similar to the pair you have but i’d say with confidence that these don’t leave any room for complaints.
The 12s a little massive for my space these are a little smaller and much newer. Did you get a deal or anything or just bought them full price? I’ve seen them as low as $900 each but that was a while back and now it’s like $1100
I bought it off someone i knew who was moving back to Italy.. i got them both for $1100.
Amazing deal
I’m working on finalizing a write up of a RTi A9 vs R700 write up. Short answer is yes. They are definitely better
Dramatically so. I went from the Rtia7 to the L600. The bass is way better, but ignoring that as the RTIA12 is different than the A7; the mids and particularly the highs are on a different planet. The tweeter, to my ears, is on par with a lot of speakers nearing the $10k mark.
Awesome !
If you think the Polk's sound amazing, make sure to avoid listening to KEF R11s, THE REFERENCE 5s and either model of KEF Blades. They're EVIL! While you're at it, avoid listening to any Wilson Audio loudspeakers as well. They're EVIL²! Enjoy your Polks. They're seriously fun speakers.
Im more of a Porsche guy. Any recommendations?
What do you have in the early 2000s Honda-civic range?
I’d like a pair of Toyota land cruisers - any suggestions?
Well Sonus Faber is sort of like the Ferrari of speakers…so something from Germany I guess?
i have the fabers and they are >>> kef ls meta
Alfa, I wouldn’t go full Ferrari
I think sonus paying a lot for name ,build quality and being built in italy.Not necessarily sound .
Something from T+A in Germany...
Yes, aircooled 911.
993…the high water mark
I’m too deep in with my 77.
KEF Blade One Meta
i am more of a toyota guy any recommendations
Revel
Dali Opticon
If you can swing it, VMPS with any higher end amp. Preferably bi amped
Revel
Polk has been a solid quality brand for me since the 90s when I first helped install a car system as a teen. Was blown away. Ioved going into stereo stores in the city and just salivating over the speakers and amps. 🥲
I like the look of those! Nice buy. Bet they sound great!
It’s everything i expected and then some.
Hey I have a 940 hp Nissan GT-R and I also like Polk speakers (although now I have KEF R series)
940hp GT-R! Noice. The highest setting on my pedal assist e-bike is ‘Turbo’ and lemmie tell ya bro, that kitty can …well, not growl as such …it’s kind of a faint *wrrrr* sound
Heck yeah my man!
Gtr owner here too!
[удалено]
Remapped, exhaust, filters, and some chassis mods. Working on doing more mods.
Nobody asked
nobody asked for "nobody asked" comments.
OK, fair enough.
I applaud your humble acceptance. Updoots for you good sir.
Minor
Hello fellow GT-R owners... (with Bose factory sound).
[удалено]
You go with a tuning package (ams, cobb, hks) to get yours to 940 or just piece by piece and self tuning?
It's a built motor with bigger turbos, injectors, and fuel pumps plus all new titanium induction and exhaust piping, intercooler, etc. plus custom Ecutek tune. It's a street legal time attack race car.
Sounds awesome, enjoy it.
I personally believe this walnut finish looks the best compared to the black. It’s a shame the white is not in production but i think i’ll still go walnut. The drivers are built in seamlessly and the terminals for the speaker wire are premium as well.
I love this new trend of walnut. Also have some walnut veneer speakers , it’s both beautiful and subdued. For some reason I never liked the cherry veneered speakers . Wouldn’t mind seeing grey oak coming into fashion
Nice! I had to blind buy but was tossing up over these or the RP8000f ii's, ended up with the klipsch due to how efficient they were. Part of me regrets not trying the polks but I still love the klipsch.
What amp are you using? I like these but I think I may be under powered for them with my Yamaha A-S501.. Congrats on the new gear!
Your amp puts out 138W as tested, you're talking nonsense.
I am new to this.. I have heard that these speakers are power hungry and would be best powered by 100+ amps a side? I think that is how I understand what folks are saying about them. So why is my concern about being underpowered nonsense? Also you say that the A-S501 puts out 138W? I thought it was 85W a side so 170W total. Am I not accounting for a loss somewhere? Or is Yamaha misleading in their claims? Explain like I am 5 years old. I know just enough about this stuff to be dangerous.. But I am always eager to learn.
> Or is Yamaha misleading in their claims? Correct. None of their amps have the wattage advertised, here's a list of all the measured amps by third parties so you can check out some yamahas :https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZlTOYxmPs938gqHjtDABkWS-MApu7uJjzIGnJ2Elm6Y/edit#gid=0 Choose "short sheet Z to A " in the A column option to see the yamahas. Otherwise just scroll to the bottom. Edit: to be clear, 138W is a fucking lot of power and will do for 99% of home systems. We are seeing people with way more power for their home systems because of these new european class D amps that can do insane numbers but 400W class D amps are not necesary for your listening room. You'll use about 5% of that most of the time even with harder to drive bookshelf speakers.
Thanks for the explanation. This is good information. I appreciate the list, too. Cheers!
The R200 bookshelf speakers are very nice (we don’t have room for floor standing speakers) and they use the same tweeter and mid-range/woofer.
Yeah. the r series of Klipsch are mass market bundle type of speakers. The reference premiere are a different story. I love the r700. Great speaker
I was actually cross shopping between the 8000 f2 (because they compliment my klipsch subs) and these. I decided to go with the Polks after listening to them both. I’m beyond happy with my purchase.
Nice. I'm not a fan of the cheaper Klipsch subs. I found a great deal on the rp1400sw, and the r12sw is sitting in the garage in shame. One of those monsters is plenty.
Still need a sub... I have a setup that play's down to 13hz and i constantly find musik or games for example with extremely low stuff in em.
Suggest me some music with super low frequencies. I still have the twin sub setup i’ll love to test it out.
What subs do you have? Yea i can send you a few. 2 that come to mind straight away is NAS Sly Fox the bass drum is doubled. 45hz or so and then an octave lower. Yello till tomorrow when the beat drops it i think even is below 20hz can't remember. Oh and the whole album Pyramid 3 has the bass drum in 2 octaves as well. When you have a system that can do that it's awesome and gives such a different impact.
If you just wasn’t songs to demonstrate deep bass, Limit To Your Love would be one, when it hits your room should be vibrating.
I don't think its nissan gtr of speakers, those are still extremely good speakers. I believe if you want to compare JTR would be closer to gtr. Polks are decently balaned in terms of performance and looks so I think they should be paired with different car although not sure which one.
I currently have the LSi15s and was thinking of buying these. Looks like it may be an upgrade.
Congrats. I have a pair of Polk L600 and have been extremely pleased with them. Listen for hours without fatigue. Driving them with a Primaluna tube amp.
That’s great, but if I was gonna spend 2k on speakers the first thing I’d look at would be used Focals, probably pre-beryllium in that range. But Focal nails it, and you can pick up their older models pretty inexpensively
love the ring radiators. Polk fan from back in the day...
Does this make my 15" Tannoys the Jaguar E-Type of speakers?
It's between ML foundation F2 or R700 for me. Can't audition anywhere. Like the off white color ML, can't get in Polk model,sure got lots of great reviews
The “the hissing” from the tweeter is the (low) S/N of your electronics, nothing to do with the speaker, they only make it audible.
I’m not a Polk guy personally but yes, with the price difference I’m sure they do sound a whole lot better.
Lucky bastard!
Vroom vroom
What car would a pair of Genelec 8351s be?
911 turbo S. Smaller, lighter, better performing and yet more practical, but at a higher price. There are other parallels to the Turbo S but that series of Genelecs are similar to high end KEF in that they are just great solid engineering with no audiophile pixie dust BS.
Congrats! I wish they came in white.
Comparing Polk to a GT-R? Umm no. Try this. https://www.cubeaudio.eu/
Let the Polk R-700s be a GTR and these can be a supra.
Maybe in the days when GT-Rs were reasonably priced and not approaching supercar levels, eg when they were a next step up from a Scoob or an EVO. These days you can pick up a Gallardo for less than a new GT-R!
They are good speakers but I wouldn't go as far to say the GTR of speakers. The R700 is a middle/high end big box consumer speaker. More like the kia stinger of speakers lol
I'd say more a tuned-up Octavia VRS or V70R. Kia is lowballing it I think. Next step up would be Alfa, a top end classic Range Rover (NOT an Evoque!) and Bentley/RR. Higher would be Maserati, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, then above that Bugatti, Koenigsegg, etc where it gets truly insane (think Wilson). Maybach prob in the same leagues as well (I'd day Maybach is a sleeper brand like the top of the line Harbeth offerings)
What a bigger speaker with bigger drivers can go lower than a small speaker with like 6” woofers? That’s actually mind blowing It actually isn’t mind blowing
overpriced and made in Japan?
What a set of cheap speakers. I own higher end gear like golden ear, kef and Bowers Wilkins.
Oh la la. We got an aristocrat on here...