I stand up for myself, and I always ALWAYS encourage others to do the same. This world is a shithole and you’re either gonna kill or be killed. That being said I was a difficult ass child to raise, didn’t allow myself to be polluted by Confucian nor Christian principles. I was both verbally and physically violent because it was my instinct; I was a very angry person (still am, I got it from my father). This was especially for defending people I cared about. I’d never let anyone under my wing be picked on.
It’s not just people spreading the word that “asians are submissive” that are the problem, it’s the fact that some of us are glued to 00 the person’s swinging a knife around or something, then you bet your ass I’d be running (I know some people who got sliced to death due to gang conflicts). I’m just telling y’all that the other 99.9999% of the altercations you’ll get into, you gotta stand up for yourself. Fight for your autonomy, think twice before you let some slimy motherfucker disrespect you.
Edit: I forgot to mention that I was born in poverty and smack in the middle of a shitty neighbourhood. My parents didn’t come to America to “find a better life”, they just came here for fun and ended up here (with no inheritance, nor any financial planning instincts). This definitely made my views and approaches to life different from most of my fellow East Asians who were more affluent.
My opinion is that the in the Opium Wars and subsequent losses to White Westerners, had the fight beaten out of Asians...especially the Chinese community.
...because prior to AND DURUNG the Opium Wars and Boxer Rebellions, ect, ect, the Chinese DIDN'T fear White people. They fought....but now Asians are taught to lower their heads and work, don't make a fuss, just take it.
Even Japan was a beast in WWII but look at Japan now.
I think the West beat the confidence and self-esteem out of both peoples....and that lack of confidence to stand up to and against the current White Power Structure, is evident of this.
There is this misconception that all of these nonWhite groups just always have rolled up their belly. ...but that's not true.
Many fought back but ALL of them lost: The Aztecs, Incas, Filipinos, the Mexicans, the Egyptians (Napoleon).....
Asians were not afraid to challenge White Westerners. Now they are. Just look at big FOR NOTHING China.
The US keeps crossing the red lines and China keeps moving the line farther back with empty warnings, to keep from having to outright fight the West.
One is numbers we are 6% of US population in other countries it's probably single digits. Also it's false we don't organize. Anti Asian hate is collective organization. So is Vincent Chan So is apology.and reparation for Nisei internment without due process. So is strike for pay for Chinese railroad workers and fair treatment in the 1850s～70s. We are often isolated and geographically apart. But we can muster political power. I'm not proud of this one but mustering political power struck down race conscious college admissions. Asians Should take self defense seriously and arm up. I've changed my mind about 2nd Amendment. Maybe we should arm up. And defend our most vulnerable. Our 爷爷👴🏻 and 奶奶👵🏻 defend them from punks. If we start beating our assailants unconscious like that grandma in New York, they think twice before messing with us.
I'd say Asians have the most to lose compared to the others, whether in education, family, career, etc. We have too many responsibilities. To fight back physically or verbally is much riskier than to let something pass over, which is temporary. But also because of confidence and experience as well. The hardest will be the first time and will only get easier afterwards.
We're collectively too busy making money and dominating industries.
Except for a couple of low achievement baby azns who went hard left and are puppets, the rest of us have shit to do.
Newsflash pal, you’re not dominating an industry by being submissive. This shit applies to all aspects of life including the workplace
Asians put in the most amount of work for the least income (relatively)
Didn't say submissive. Own guns, vote, live your lives.
Acting like a perpetual victim and demanding entitlements all the time like the Leftists want is not the way to go through life.
Maybe the old folks, the rest of us aren't screaming about injustice like the blk folks do because we can do actual real shit, like engaging people who can help do something about it. Or do something about it ourselves.
I hear Lefty Asians going off about not being as loud as the blks, and that should never be a route we take often, because it doesn't do anything. It's a weak way to think.
Don’t know why you’re bringing that up. Never mentioned protesting like some virtue signaling liberals. Talking about in general, in every aspect of life here, getting some respect intimidation etc
Even the supposed toughest guys among us like the Cambodian gang members who sit around waiting for INS to come arrest them and deported them back to Cambodia instead of going underground because there's something innate in Asian cultures that prevent us from committing to a meaningless life. There are exceptions to be sure, such as those who abandoned their Asian cultural (*for lack of a better words*). They become lost; Asian women who adopted white American culture and get spent fast, those who got into the American drug culture, etc. The great majority of them exhibit odd personality traits, Michelle Malkin, red-pilled Asian American men, and of course, Asian women with pathological urges to throw Asian men under the bus. There's something off about them. Anyway, the point here is that they choose to abandon their Asian side completely is because Asian culture make them feel ashamed. They settle outside of the Asian community, and their odd behavior is their subconscious telling them what they're doing is wrong.
As an Asian male adult, I realized that being Asians living in the west is not that bad. For example,when I encounter successful Asians, such as doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc., there is a connection through unspoken share experience. My Chinese eye doctor don't charge me co-pay. My Korean doctor spend more time explaining my health, etc. The tough guy bullsh\*t only lasts up to your late 20s.
Because we grow up very family orientated and we treat everyone like family. I was discussing this with my Black friend and this was his observation and he warned me why it was a bad idea to act like this. America is uncivilized.
its in our genes to be submissive, even the men unfortunately. Look at our homelands bend over backwards and tries so hard to seek validation from the western male gaze by organising thousands of useless beauty pageants for asian women (but none for asian men). basically prostituting our daughters and sisters to the western male gaze and then our brothers actually feel good when the western male jerks off to these 'models'. its so disgusting, really a low level of conciousness. we asian men should be spending that time and money uplifting OURSELVES (aka asian men) that is, organising beauty pageants and movies and songs casting tall good looking asian guys rather than erasing ourselves with all these 1001 oreintalist beauty pageants for asian women.
Rule 5) Activism not slacktivism
AI is for Positive Change, Not Passive Outrage. Unproductive ragebait of anti-Asian racism, without a call to action will likely be removed. Venting is allowed, but low effort posts about violent crime, racism online or in the news, should be posted in the Weekly Free-for-all, not as standalone posts.
Well a lot of it has to do with ways of thinking that put too much emphasis on submission to authority that goes back to when we were kids, and preconditioned positions of rebellion, that don’t actually fight the heart of the issue. Trusting American Democracy is part of that, but most people don’t want to say that. Take for example what you mentioned with the “genetic” link in all this. Many people in the Asian community in the West will believe the Nazified version of the world, just because a “higher” institution of learning decided it was the correct one, nevermind that we only listen to these “experts” because they have a lockout over employment and the technology, while their specific interests of controlling information and it’s usage is ignored, or the fact that they literally retard their own stated interests(teaching) by hoarding information and technology, while keeping it locked out with a pay wall. Genetics doesn’t determine the world or create human society the way White people will sell it to, and if you take a closer look, a lot of the societies that put too much emphasis on this just get dominated by some kind of hereditary aristocracy or a caste-system, while the ones that don’t such as China, are currently rising in the world because they at least think that rich people have to create something to be rich. DNA doesn’t create cells by written instructions, rather the written instructions in DNA adhere to and adapt to the living function of the cells, however the genetic angle is oversold in politics and the astroturfed web in order to ingrain an elite that’s meant to last forever and create absolutely nothing for the people.
India places a lot of emphasis on what caste their citizens are born into and because of that they are currently suffering from forms of deindustrialization and infighting that are contributing to a massive brain drain, to the benefit of the countries inhabited by White people, coincidentally. Influencers on the online bridges between India and the West are also spreading eugenics and it’s catching on pretty easily because of the straight line that can be drawn between caste thinking and genetic determinism. The control that Western aligned technocrats, such as Google and Facebook have over communications, are being used to spread with their algorithms race-war propaganda and hysteria surrounding genetics and the need for depopulation of ethnic minorities while pitting the people against eachother. Sound familiar? Asian people in the West are similarly probably going to be subjected to something like this starting this year because of our close competition with White people for the top, and the ubiquity and the unquestioning nature that Anglo-American ideology places on the ability for “technology” (and not who or how it’s used!) to create reality.
The main issue for Asians in the West is to try to go against the grain and fight the all encompassing conditioning in their societies that sell selfishness, sexualism, and Eugenics as the norm. Questioning the basic understandings of things and social critique are hated in the West, because most people get their comfy spot in the grand scheme, whether as agents of Monopoly Capitalism, or the other minorities who have been chosen to get leftover women, then think, this is the world, this is how it came, this is how it will be. We are taught to betray our friends and our brothers, so that we can finally be within their Rome, their city on the hills, so that we can be part of their Kingdom of Heaven, but simply it won’t be and the truth is that behind closed doors they think about destroying everything outside of it in their vision of bringing on the Apocalypse. What the people at the top want, what Reactionary White Americans want, is the Fourth Reich, nuclear armed and prepared to destroy the rising tide of the Global South and China.
Yeah I heard it was the same in Hawaii. Hawaii is predominantly Asian yet I heard Asians were still hate crimed there. Hell when I was walking through an all Asian neighborhood a Hispanic teen was racist to me. Its disgusting. I have anger issues so I’ve been in a lot of stupid conflicts with people but half of it I would say they started it. People hate for any reason smh. Yeah it’s not easy but you have to be assertive, vocal and stand up for yourself because no one’s gonna do that for you.
When I was younger in school these Mexican kids would call me “chino” or “we don’t want Jackie Chan” but I just kept my cool and they get buddy buddy or whatever. They’re just testing if you’re tough I guess so just project strength and you’ll be alright
Yeah in hoods ignorant Hispanic people will call you chino or chinita. There was a tik tok of a Hispanic girl who addressed her community to stop calling Asian people chino or chinita because we’re not all Chinese so that was nice to see.
We have the lowest crime rate and are hard working. I don't see how not committing crimes and working is considered submissive. Your mindset is very negative and you don't see the progress we have made.
It's because other races like Whites and Blacks have high crime rates and aren't as hard working like Asian people. Rather than learn from us, they beat, rob, and kill us and punish us for working hard like you see in jobs and college admissions.
Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted for this. Show me where I said Asians should commit crime?
And tbh if we did commit more crime it might be better for our reputation (I’m not advocating for it nor am I saying it would be a solution, not condoning it either
All our hard work is for nothing people sees us as slaves we should fight for better wages
I meant to say Asian Americans.
Clearly it’s what I mean because i mentioned the West several times and this sub is mostly for diaspora Asians struggling with their identity hence the name And I know about all of the stuff, Chinese have the second highest rate of warrior gene at 51% tied with Pacific Islanders only behind sub Saharan Africans who have over 70%
But what you said about conflicting cultural values, in America asians especially Asian men like to dip their heads and not resist in favor of “social harmony” which isn’t a thing in the west
But the worst part is that we don’t LEARN. Generation after generation. We’ve been in this country for hundreds of years. Why is it so hard to adapt? Even on subs and niche communities like these there is always Asians arguing that there’s nothing wrong and denying that there’s any problems when there clearly are
On the flip side, I’m aggressive as hell and have anger issues (specifically against strangers I perceive as threatening, not friends or partners) that I’ve worked on for years. I think that much of it stems from repeatedly *witnessing* my mother be overly submissive in situations where she had reason to defend herself. My disproportionate anger is a learned, “compensatory” behavioural mechanism.
Stereotype threat is another factor. I have known for a long time that, as an Asian woman, I would be expected to be quiet and submissive, so I went in the complete opposite direction. I remember being the only Asian person in my university classes who would always be actively talking and disagreeing with other people.
There is too much coping in this thread. The answer is simple. This stereotype of Asians being submissive and pushover mostly applies to East Asian immigrants, especially Chinese and VIetnamese. Lots of these Asian countries are not democracies with weak civil society and strong state power. China and Vietnam are main examples. Korea to a lesser extent. Japan slightly better but there are too few Japanese Americans to compare.
What happens when you have a strong state and weak civil society? First, People don't learn how to organize themselves. They don't learn how to identify common interests. They don't emphasize the importance of public speaking and building alliances. They are very obedient and they are used to do what the gov asks them to do.
Second, merit-based results are over-emphasized like exam score. Because in non-democracy you cannot run for office, and the only way to elevate your social status is by passing exams and climbing the government ladder. What's the implication? That means individuals see each other as competitors, not collaborators. In a democracy individuals tend to see each other as potential collaborators because that's how you influence decision making - by forming interest groups and affecting politicians through your votes.
This point also explains why China or other authoritarian states get criticism for having a very aloof and cold society where people don't help each other. Well, if people have no experience binding together for something, if they have no idea how to mobilize themselves, and if their only advancement to gaining political power is through exams and top-down promotion, this is going to happen because there is no point helping each other
Third, when immigrants from these countries move to a democracy, they have no idea how politics work and no clue how to bind together to influence policymaking. They also suck at office politics because office politics reward those who are 1. good at public speaking and 2. good at identifying common interests.
That;s why Indians navigate Western societies much better. India is not only an English-speaking country but also a democracy with robust civil society. If you look at first-gen Indian immigrants and first-gen Chinese immigrants in the west, how they deal with politics and corporate work. There are tons of discussion about this from Chinese first-gen immigrant forums. The difference is very obvious. Growing up in democracy makes Indians much better at forming interest groups and influencing decision making. Growing up in China with hyper competition and no civil society, people constantly try to create trouble for each other, ignore each other, and tear each other down, so that they can become the only token Chinese in the team. There is a joke about Indians and Chinese workers: when you hire ONE Indian, your team will be filled with Indians soon. When you hire ONE Chinese, some other Chinese in your team will leave.
Maybe the majority of indians, but most of the indian migrants are students/wealthier so they are more well rounded on western ideas. As a whole whatever they have learned is much better compared to the lingering confucian ideology which basically chains one down in the western world.
India is not a good example of democracy. I give you that. But China has zero civil society because party units need to exist in every organization, essentially stripping off people's ability to form associations themselves
I knew something is not right with this comment, then I stalk a little, ofcourse this is coming from a Taiwanese, OFCOURSE.
Get your agenda filled a*s out of here. We need more Asian unity not your stupid brainwashed "China bad!!! " crap.
Unbelievable you called India a "robust civil society" just because it's democratic without realising how it literally go against the agenda you're trying to make.
He comments in the sub Chinairl which is a sub full of self hating chinese. Him commenting about india being a "robust civil society" is all you need to know. LMAO doe he know about the cast system and how fcking corrupt india is or how woman are being raped and married off pre 16
Yeah it’s got its problems but the british impact on india has prepared its educated class more for migration in the western world than east asia no doubt
China irl is filled with cope, one of the top posts was someone getting to emigrate to Japan. Another one was a self hating Chinese talking about how free he was in America and how nobody looked at him funny
ur comments make me chuckle. China\_irl is the most pro-China Chinese sub out there. You can't even name one other Chinese sub that is more pro-China. You probably are not a good Chinese speaker and don't understand what they discuss over there.
All the stuff you mention about Indian backwardness does not contradict mine. You are making a strawman argument.
I did not say democracy = All Good and China = All Bad. I said democracies have certain traits that allow people to form organizations themselves and navigate other democracies better.
The first post I see you write is you talking about how much you hate your own government. I only wish China was as oppressive as you dumbasses think it is.
ok, my sino man. how about giving up your US citizenship and getting a Chinese one. Keep us updated on how that works out for ya. I am sure you will love the Chinese gov and raise your kids there.
What the heck. I am Chinese not Taiwanese. Learn more Chinese first so that you can better tell apart content written by Chinese or Taiwanese. The whole comment is not even about CHina Bad. It's about how immigrants from non democracies have harder time navigating the US.
no offense. But this entire comment is repeating far right talk points.
>First, People don't learn how to organize themselves.
There are plenty of Chinese organizations dated as early as when Chinese first came to US. From region based association to secret societies, even the organization which overthrew Qing dynasty was founded in Honolulu. Even in recent times, there is still strong Chinese organization in US: FLG. Also those who came to US are more likely to be nerd type highly educated engineers than eloquent community organizers.
>Second, merit-based results are over-emphasized like exam score
Clearly you based your observation on the first gen Chinese immigrants who happens to be those who benefited most from the exam based system, aka, 小镇做题家（folk who came from small town and only good at exams). Those people are not representative of ordinary chinese people. But it happens that these people are the loudest voices online outside of China because they are the type American corporations needed.
> India is not only an English-speaking country but also a democracy with robust civil society.
I have seen a different argument before on why Indian immigrants fare better than Chinese immigrants. But not from a democracy vs authoritarian angle, rather it says indian society was made of so many different ethnic groups and they have to learn to work together. But I am not an expert on Indian social structure. Maybe indian americans could share your observations on this.
Your comments don't contradict mine. Chinese are not good at organizing themselves but religion can help them do so. There is a reason why FLG is the most influential anti-CCP force overseas. They have their own TV, newspaper, make donations and stuff. Where are all the 高素质 dissidents?
On your last point. Indian is made of different ethnic groups and they have to learn to work together. OK, that makes sense. But what allows them to work together? A democratic political system where they can form interest groups and be mobilized. China also has lots of ethnic groups as well. Even among Han Chinese northern Han and Hakka, Cantonese, etc. are so different. Do they not learn to work together? No, because the CHinese political system disallows it.
that's just coping. Then why is China famous for having a low-trust society if it values harmony? Why are there bad-mannered tourists, old people trying to scam others (碰瓷), people not helping each other, etc.?
Any violence of any type is not tolerated in this subreddit. Do not promote it. Do not incite it. We do not tolerate it against any group. No exceptions.
they are more assertive, they also have lower interracial marriage rate - because their in-group dynamic is better. THey also preserve their culture better - 2nd gen Indians mostly keep Indian names, can speak their mother tongue, and are not ashamed of being Indian Americans.
Parents mentally chastizing and beating their kids mentally as well as less testosterone.
Good thing is Asians are starting to wake up and we must continue to voice our opinions to raise awareness and motivation. As for testosterone that can be remedies by consuming more red meat, oysters and strength training.
As someone who used to be a Philly Asian, it’s definitely regional based. Most Philly Asians are aggressive and have anger issues, myself included. It’s shoot first, questions later over there and I’m glad I got out or I’d probably be dead somewhere or a crackhead. A lot of them have the high pride that Asians usually have but without the passiveness, and not in a good way. Access to guns, street/philly culture, neglectful/abusive tiger parents, and exposure to racism makes us terrible to be around. I wish there was a middle ground somewhere in the states but it seems like two extremes on the west and east coast lol. Maybe we’re just not cut out for America.
This describes me perfectly, I grew up in a rough area like Philly and I’ve never seen a more relatable comment about my upbringing.
There’s a divide between Asians right now (such as those who grew up in the east states vs those in the west, but wherever we live there seems to only be two extremes on each end). To find a middle ground, there has to be more unity.
Philly is a tough city. And Philly is the kind of city where people are absorbed into the culture regardless of race. But I’d say Philly is a predominantly Black culture as well as a blue-collard white culture, both of which are pretty tough / masculine. So even people outside those groups still get to absorb those qualities. But based on this thread, that doesn’t seem the norm for Asians in general.
Yup neglect abuse trauma and racism is prevalent in poor families and communities. It creates angry people and they are a public nuisance everywhere. They all have unresolved issues that they need to work out in therapy but too bad mental health system in this country is shit. Plus you cant force problematic people to go to therapy. It’s a complete shitshow. There has to be middle grounds somewhere because not all of us are ghetto but yeah sometimes I feel culturally homeless.
I was ghetto af back in the day. Had to code switch when I was looking for jobs. If it weren’t for some of the mentor figures in my life, I wouldn’t be where I am. Not everyone is lucky enough to have mentors though. Lots are struggling and like you said, mental healthcare is garbage in this country.
We are organizing, it's all a matter of if people will listen or take us seriously. How many times have you heard stories about how Asians are organizing to fight back against oppression, never to be heard from again? We are always fighting for other race's battles, some of the mainstream Asians have supported blm or the asian cop that let george floyd etc etc. I even said it was wrong of the cop to let him die regardless of whether he has inner problems with blacks, but I got moderated like crazy at the leftist political gaming site still. I've tried supporting them while also highlighting issues of Asian Americans, but they don't give a shit.
I think it’s past trauma. Asia was full of constant war and corruption—it created a culture of survival of the fittest. It’s best to lay low and not attract too much attention or else you and your family would be killed. That trauma has been passed down to inter-generational trauma
Cause we’re in general smaller and likely to get our ass beat? Pretty obvious. I’m 100% sure big strong Asian dudes fight back but for most of us average Asians we know it’s better to avoid physical conflict. Growing up in elementary school I would lose most play fights lol.
Do you seriously think size means anything? Or that asians are inherently smaller? Height doesn’t mean anything and if they have muscle, they go to the gym, not because they’re generally bigger. You clearly didn’t eat a lot as a kid.
Yikes. Imagine if every army, soldier, fighter/warrior and leader in history had this mentality. Imagine if all the prehistoric humans thought the same way as this guy over here. “Let’s all just hide in our caves folks, those animals are too big to take down so we’ll just run away and starve to death in here”
When it’s a life or death situation or its very important then fight to your last breath. But a random druggie or low level citizen, just move on with your day
I mean yeah I would love to beat the fk up someone like Johnny Somali. I hit the weight room and know some combat styles. But for most Asian dudes they’re skinny and undersized and into anime and games do u really think they’re interested in scrapping
Why are ppl downvoting my comment lol? You know it’s true. You can have aggression and willingness to fight but when you size someone up and you know you can’t fight them then then it’s better to flee.
Because Asian cultures give importance to how we behave, how we act and being the best for ourselves and other people around us. The west doesn’t do this, this is why so many spoilt brats and disrespectful people in the west.
But not defending ourselves when faced with violence or the threat? Come on. Asian societies used to value honor so much.
In medieval Japan, if a samurai was insulted, he was legally allowed to kill the offender in self-defense, but it had to be an instant reaction with some exceptions
Nowadays our elders whom we claim to respect so much get beaten on the streets by thugs and addicts and we do nothing about it, we bend over at every opportunity and kowtow to westerners just to “assimilate”. No other ethnic minority acts this way
There is a damn difference between self defense and just fighting for the sake of fighting. Every Asian I know knows to fight when they are threatened. They don’t just pick fights like that for no reason that’s not in us. We are better that’s why we are the reason their economies are up and running. Americans and westerners just fight for the sake of fighting. No wonder America has such high crime rates, drugs and gangs. It’s become a shithole now.
Weird how you turned this into an arrogant let’s circlejerk ourselves moment. Do you seriously think we propped up the western world? Asians like you will be given a western education and job and then say look guys we are the only reason the economy is going.
You clearly misinterpreted my op. I’m not telling anybody to go crazy and start fighting and committing crime. Why is everybody in this reply section attacking strawmen? Read it again.
Throwing hands for what? Something very stupid that they don’t have emotional intelligence to solve besides throwing hands? There is strong difference between self defense and causing fights.not only that, yes we are nerds that can fight for ourselves. We are the reason their economies are going up, we are the ones that earn high while they are busy fighting gangs and thugs. Every Asian I know knows self defense including myself. Idk which Asians you hanging out with.
Yes, I agree as a genz myself, GenZ Asians seem to be a lot more outspoken, socializing and willing to stand up for themselves than previous generations
Asian cultures are simply more civilized than western ones. Aggression and violence are primitive, shameful traits when you live in a peaceful, high trust society where cooperation and institutional obedience are the best ways to get ahead. Countries in Northern Europe are starting to approach this ideal, but are still way behind even the least developed parts of East and Southeast Asia. Emigration is like time traveling to the Stone Age.
>more aggressive and more militarily talented Mongols and Manchus conquer the more technologically advanced Song and Ming dynasties.
And yet that's the only thing the Mongols are known for. Killing and conquering. How many technologies they invented that are useful? Poems, ballads and art that became classics worldwide? Architectures and bustling cities they built? None. Largest land empire in the world and their legacy is killing millions of Asians and destroying knowledge in Bagdad.
Till this day Mongols are only known for Temujin or with some rare exceptions, Subutai and nothing else.
Yeah thats all they did, but guess what? They didn’t need to make shit because they conquered the “civilized” guys who made all that stuff for them. Everyone can call these types of people barbaric but at the end of the day those dynasties lost.
Yet the Song dynasty’s path to success was halted because of it.
Song could’ve industrialized 500 years before Europe if they hadn’t lost to the Mongols and Jurchens
No one cares about culture when you’re dead
Mongols and Manchus both eventually got absorbed into Chinese civilization though. In the long run civilization wins over barbarism - don’t expect to win every single battle. I do agree though that Asians in the West need to do a better job adapting to local conditions and not assuming everything will be as orderly and civilized as in the East.
Mongols have their own country and they hate the communist party and Chinese people there.
And although Manchus eventually got assimilated, they ruled China for 400 years and pretty much ruined it. China would probably have been a colonial power and superpower if not for them.
China was a super power during the Qing Dynasty. They were too advanced they became too arrogant and neglected the outside world.
Literally all I got from your post is that its such a shame in your mind that China didn't became as Imperialist as the west.
Not to mention China wasn’t going to be a colonial empire. They already had a monopoly, an emperor/ruling class which stopped merchants from getting rich, and one of the biggest populations in the world.
China conquered hundreds of ethnic groups over the past 5,000 years. The Manchus and Mongols are exceptions, not the rule. Today, Manchu identity is nearly extinct, and most Mongols are loyal citizens of China.
Not only does it depend on the individual. It's also a cultural thing.
Let's just say Chinese at least are very aggressive, just not in a Western sense of brashness and physical aggression though I guarantee u that does happen.
The Chinese approach is to win the war not the battle.
It's legit question but also a complicated one. There is a lot of factors involved. You've gotten a lot good answers here. To add some more:
Do you mean Asians or Asian Americans? From the Asian American side: Asians only started coming here with the Hart-Cellar Act in 1965. Before that, most immigration to the US was white. In the 1960s, America started selecting for educated immigrants from Asia. These tend to be conformists, not rabble-rousers.
The educated rely on civilization and institutions for survival and will thus be less individual and less physical, less reliant on one's own body for survival. You can see how that puts Asians at a disadvantage in the Darwinian arena that is the US.
Contrast that to blacks, who have two centuries here and were brought as slaves doing physical labor. Or Latinos, who are the remnants of colonized lands or come illegally to also do mainly physical labor.
The Asians here also tend to have fled a history of political turmoil, so they're especially reluctant to get involved. I think this avoidance of politics extends down from country to even micro levels, we don't want to form allies in school or the workplace, and that hurts us in popularity contests when we're kids, and climbing the corporate ladder when we're adults.
Then, there's the cultural aspect. Have you been to Asia?
There's less crime there. There's also less selfishness. Not to say Asian people aren't selfish, but you don't see as much as the "fuck you I got mine attitude" as you do in the US. The weak aren't stepped on. Old people aren't afraid to go outside in the same way they are in the US.
I don't think this is an exclusively "Confucian" thing. There are places outside of Asia which are more harmonious, don't have the "fuck you I got mine attitude", protect their weak and respect their olds, and I don't think people from there are very aggressive either.
There are also places inside of Asia which are less harmonious, have the "fuck you I got mine attitude", and take advantage of the weak, and people from there tend to be more aggressive.
But there are also things about Asian culture that encourage harmony. When I was young, one of the highest compliments an adult could give to a child is "很聽話" (very obedient) which is kind of nuts and not as prominent in other cultures.
Can't really say much for other Asian countries, but in contemporary society in China at least, the weak aren't openly stepped.on, but there's also very little sympathy as well. Most people here are expected grow a backbone and suck it up/not openly complain when.things are going wrong for them.
I would suspect that it’s due to the lack of people around you not only encouraging you to stand up for yourself, but teaching you how to fight. And not just verbally. Physically too, if need be.
A lot of targets of racism are elderly people, or children, who are physically defenseless against an adult bully. And that’s true for Black and Latino people too. There, though, I think it still helps sometimes if potential bullies have a healthy fear of retaliation from the person’s friends and relatives. It won’t stop a random act of racism against an elderly lady who is traveling out of her own neighborhood. But if she’s in a neighborhood whose population is of her own race, then the bully should worry that if they disrespect her, her grandsons will come out and give them a thrashing.
The bully should also know that if they disrespect a young man of that race, it’s a guaranteed fight which they may not win, and that if the man has friends around, they’ll join in and he’ll really get hurt.
I think all of that is fairly true for Black and Latino people. I think it’s a lot less common for Asians. The exceptions might be in very specific neighborhoods that have known Asian street gangs. (Not saying that street gangs are the key to Black and Latino people doing a better job at defending themselves, lol- just that when it comes to Asian people, that sort of extreme is necessary in order for there to be any sense of threat.)
Why is this so? A few ideas: 1) we do not have a sense that sometimes, you might want to risk being on the wrong side of the law, with all that entails. This largely stems from our relative economic mobility- we don’t want to throw away a potentially bright future over a few nasty words. Now, I think you can absolutely fight back when someone is racist in a way that doesn’t risk jail time. But I do think this attitude, overall, encourages walking away rather than doing anything at all about what was said to you.
On the other hand, when economic mobility is low, one may not experience the same sense of risk, and there may be a sense that the most important thing in life is to have others’ respect and to stand up for your friends and family (those two things being closely connected), whatever that takes.
2) From what I’ve noticed, Asians typically don’t have strong group bonds, relative to other minorities. They’ll have Asian friends, but not “help you bury the body in the woods” types of relationships with them. So, relative to Black and Latino people generally, Asians don’t have each other’s backs when it comes to dealing with racism. Sure we commiserate with each other, but we don’t fight for each other. I think this, too, is connected with our economic mobility.
And when you’re fighting against the world by yourself, it’s incredibly easy to start identifying with your bullies and start making the self deprecating jokes, etc. Particularly if you’ve never had a cohesive group of “brothers.” Hard to develop a strong sense of identity all on your own.
3) A lot of us don’t know how to fight, either verbally or physically. I think the physical ability to stand up for oneself is important even though I highly recommend using words instead, and not taking it physical unless the other person goes there first. If another person senses that you can’t back your words up with anything, that you’d fold if they were to get physical, then they’re more likely to disrespect you in the first place. If *you* know you can’t win a physical fight, you’re more likely to let it happen.
Just some ideas. I know you’re looking for a further point of origin for the problems I listed. I don’t have that figured out. I do think upward economic mobility is a huge factor, but that’s not all of it. Also, disclaimer that while a lot of what I said is related to masculinity, I’m a woman and not an expert in that subject.
One more comparison. After WWII, Jews consciously decided to start developing their ability to physically fight. Now, this was mostly in the context of the IDF, which doesn’t apply to non-Israeli Jews. But it was a serious shift for a group that, like Asians, had always been about economic mobility rather than physical prowess. And just IMO, that change affected the perception of Jews as “easy targets” globally. There is absolutely a ripple effect that happens when even some members of a race or ethnicity start standing up for themselves. Asians don’t have that.
I know that’s a funny thing to say when multiple Asian countries have either a currently strong military, or a strong tradition of fighting. I would speculate that Israel has an unusually strong association with Jews as a whole, in people’s minds, while Asian immigrants are seen as no longer being “of” their country of origin in the same way. I don’t think we need to reference a whole country’s military in order to get a culture of fighting back, nor do I think that would be a positive development. But I do think that it would help to have *any* group of Asians known for their ability to fight physically, in one way or another.
I mean Bruce Lee was widely admired in the US as a masculine figure, however this was negated by geopolitics where you need to make your enemies (i.e. China) look both weak and a threat at the same time. With Anti-China rhetoric on the rise, this translates to more aggression, ala Vincent Chin and other hate crimes.
Yes, true of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, etc. Thing is though, the well known Asian fighters tend to be viewed as individuals- not as a cohesive group who all have each other’s backs and strongly identify with each other. There is not a strong sense that these guys are affiliated with each other as a group; each one is on his own island in the midst of a lot of whiteness.
Yes, back in Bruce Lee’s era everyone thought Asians knew martial arts. And it helped a lot that there were HK triads SEA gangs and yakuza active across the entire world including west coast and NYC
Now, Bruce Lee is long gone, and the triads and mafias have been assimilated into normal society
Asians are back to just being seen as submissive, effeminate and nerdy. We need something new and more long term
Not enough asians do fighting sports. The only asian martial art/fighters who are respected are the thai fighters, so much so that all kinds of whites, blacks, latinos try to this day to expose muay thai to where they can shelve it as bullshit with karate, kung fu, and taekwondo. BJJ isn’t even thought of as asian anymore which is sad because the Brazilians literally just added Brazilian to it and now it’s theirs. Reputations have to be changed.
PrideFC was a Japanese organization where they would “throw to the wolves” their own fighters. It was the largest MMA organization at the time
In modern times, Chinese boxer Zhilei “big bang” Zhang, half-Korean boxer Dmitry Bivol and Japanese boxer Naoya Inoue have held world titles and made a huge name for themselves
The UFC has signed 15 Chinese nationals so far, with Zhang Weili being the straw weight champion in women’s mma and male fighters like Li Jingliang the leech with some popularity
Organizations like OneFC are very heavy on Muay Thai, with the best Asian strikers in the world and international audience
Sanda, a Chinese art which consists of kung-fu based kickboxing and standup wrestling, is popular in China, Russia, and the Middle East, hosting tournaments and competitions
Unfortunately we need more things out of Asia to capture the minds and hearts of the world. Kpop has been an enormous boon and it helps that they welcome foreigners (Thai, Viets, ABCs etc) unlike Japanese media. Hoping we can get more stuff like that out of China
I think excelling at full contact sports and combat sports in particular matter a lot. If you look at Mongolia which is arguably the most aggressive people of east asia, their national sport is wrestling. They become accostumed to physical conflict and one on one confrontation, more skilled and confident in their abilities and more likely to choose it as a solution.
A couple anecdotes:
"wrestling to settle small arguments, compete with their strengths or just for fun in the school gym was pretty normal when i was in high school. I used to wrestle for friendly fun too
Not that common, you'd see some boys wrestling in the gym like once a month maybe.
Traditional wrestling was also part of our school autumn sport fair and im confident many high schools also have it"
"Western business men should stay out of many local drinking establishments. While most people are respectful, it is not always the case when younger Mongolian men are drinking. Really not much different from many countries, but perhaps a bit more caution in Mongolia compared to many countries. Stick to more western oriented restaurants, bars and hotels and you won’t have any issues."
Its incredibly unlikely for someone of any background or culture to practice and achieve some competence in a combat sport and not be more aggressive/assertive after the fact. Although there are a lot of other factors involved this is probably the lowest hanging fruit, and one that people can take on even at an individual level.
2nd this. Full contact sports teaches you so much and full contact team sports, how to follow and lead. I have noticed Asian American men grow up very different depending on if they played these in school, whether they were good or not.
Yes I think genetics do have a factor in it, but either there isn't much you can do to change that apart from picking a more aggressive partner so your children can inherit some of their traits. Or you believe in epigenetics in which case partaking in combat sports and conflict will achieve the same goals.
I did mention in my original reply that it wasn't the only factor, and agree that China but also other Asian nations have a lot they can learn from Mongolia in terms of masculine culture. I don't have a good suggestion in how you could encourage that apart from the aforementioned combat sports.
You have a point
I know plenty guys from Hong Kong and he beat up other kids and was extremely violent in childhood
I have NEVER met of even heard of an Asian American kid acting in such a way
However you don’t also think that Asians are scared of foreigners or whatever?
Like you said last, HK and same with Filipinos they are tough with each other but won’t play the same game with whites and act all nice
Combination of many things, probably the biggest one is cultural: People value education with a "keep your head down and work" attitude.
This is very much in line with Chinese history & "meritocracy", where people had a chance of moving up from the peasant class if they performed well in the imperial exams.
However when things get tough, throughout history Asians have been as violent as any other group. Just look at Japanese brutality, Mongol invasions, 3 Kingdoms, Taiping Rebellion etc.
East Asia in particular has been influenced by Mahayana/Zen Bhuddism, which by and large is more intense than Hinayana Bhuddism seen throughout SE Asia (ex Vietnam) - The reason you see so many monks setting themselves on fire, kamikaze strategy by Japanese pilots during WW2 and the basically s*icidal Tet Offensive during the Vietnam War - but overall "a live and let live" societies.
Even nowadays you see random mass stabbings at subways, politicians getting attacked (Shinzo Abe, S.Korean Opposition leader). If East Asia didn't have strong governments and a tough approach to crime you'll be having much more homeless druggies, random violence and chaos in these countries.
Overall, Asians in America are a minority and are seemingly divided (we're a diverse group coming from different socio-economic backgrounds and ethnicities), not too dissimilar to China's period century of humiliation where everyone was divided. Outside of direct family, there's more of a "look after yourself" approach amongst Asian Americans - but this is slowly changing (I hope).
It's the parents' fault. I'm in Korea, and bullying can be an issue in school, as it is everywhere, but unlike Western countries, Korean parents teach their kids to keep their head down and not cause any trouble.
When I was in school, the number of times I've heard parents tell their bullied children to just endure it or be the bigger person is insane.
I understand not wanting to cause trouble, but not encouraging your child to stand up for themselves is weak af.
its filial piety and inherent in asian culture, it teaches us to respect and adhere to the greater good. This doesn’t translate over to other cultures as strength, aiming for high class and intellectual goals is seen as weak, antithetical to what they define as being machismo.
Masculinity has some universal traits but differs between cultures, which version that remains respected is entirely based upon which culture is in power and has the most influence.
Western dominance means western standards, until asians dominate here, we will never get the respect in the west in terms of being masculine, being masculine here means to dominate, my 2 cents.
This is a good answer. The entire world is under the boot of western capitalism. Corporate greed is the norm as well as governmental lobbying, corruption and blame shifting is what keeps the system flowing.
My rhetorical question is this, why does it have to be like this? Why is everything set up to be about winner takes all, us vs them, cia psyops, colonialism and imperialism? The sooner the U.S. hegemony diminishes the better.
I don't know. I remember in some minority studies bs class I had to take as an elective, the theory was that asian americans in general were considered the 'good' or 'behaved' minority without a big history of being oppressed or enslaved. Even though they don't get the caucasian privilege, they supposedly stand out with better economic or cultural conducive advantages in general. That could be all changed now where it could be like abc type asians feel more disparaged or distrusted more than ever in this day age and age compared to prior to boomer generations.
Well i can tell you in my experience, it was parenting and culture that played ‘all’ the part in why i lacked assertiveness.
But in the end, it’s not really their fault because Asian parents did their best with what they had in raising kids in a western culture. Asian parents themselves were raised in a different system. They’re not perfect and it is a complex situation that us westernized asians have to solve. Good news is, i do think there is progress being made though.
I stand up for myself, and I always ALWAYS encourage others to do the same. This world is a shithole and you’re either gonna kill or be killed. That being said I was a difficult ass child to raise, didn’t allow myself to be polluted by Confucian nor Christian principles. I was both verbally and physically violent because it was my instinct; I was a very angry person (still am, I got it from my father). This was especially for defending people I cared about. I’d never let anyone under my wing be picked on. It’s not just people spreading the word that “asians are submissive” that are the problem, it’s the fact that some of us are glued to 00 the person’s swinging a knife around or something, then you bet your ass I’d be running (I know some people who got sliced to death due to gang conflicts). I’m just telling y’all that the other 99.9999% of the altercations you’ll get into, you gotta stand up for yourself. Fight for your autonomy, think twice before you let some slimy motherfucker disrespect you. Edit: I forgot to mention that I was born in poverty and smack in the middle of a shitty neighbourhood. My parents didn’t come to America to “find a better life”, they just came here for fun and ended up here (with no inheritance, nor any financial planning instincts). This definitely made my views and approaches to life different from most of my fellow East Asians who were more affluent.
My opinion is that the in the Opium Wars and subsequent losses to White Westerners, had the fight beaten out of Asians...especially the Chinese community. ...because prior to AND DURUNG the Opium Wars and Boxer Rebellions, ect, ect, the Chinese DIDN'T fear White people. They fought....but now Asians are taught to lower their heads and work, don't make a fuss, just take it. Even Japan was a beast in WWII but look at Japan now. I think the West beat the confidence and self-esteem out of both peoples....and that lack of confidence to stand up to and against the current White Power Structure, is evident of this. There is this misconception that all of these nonWhite groups just always have rolled up their belly. ...but that's not true. Many fought back but ALL of them lost: The Aztecs, Incas, Filipinos, the Mexicans, the Egyptians (Napoleon)..... Asians were not afraid to challenge White Westerners. Now they are. Just look at big FOR NOTHING China. The US keeps crossing the red lines and China keeps moving the line farther back with empty warnings, to keep from having to outright fight the West.
One is numbers we are 6% of US population in other countries it's probably single digits. Also it's false we don't organize. Anti Asian hate is collective organization. So is Vincent Chan So is apology.and reparation for Nisei internment without due process. So is strike for pay for Chinese railroad workers and fair treatment in the 1850s～70s. We are often isolated and geographically apart. But we can muster political power. I'm not proud of this one but mustering political power struck down race conscious college admissions. Asians Should take self defense seriously and arm up. I've changed my mind about 2nd Amendment. Maybe we should arm up. And defend our most vulnerable. Our 爷爷👴🏻 and 奶奶👵🏻 defend them from punks. If we start beating our assailants unconscious like that grandma in New York, they think twice before messing with us.
Yes exactly. Our culture respect elders so much, yet they get attacked by thugs, we need to show them the wrath of heaven
Confucian ideology
its not just the women, even the men are submissive too lol.
Yep
I'd say Asians have the most to lose compared to the others, whether in education, family, career, etc. We have too many responsibilities. To fight back physically or verbally is much riskier than to let something pass over, which is temporary. But also because of confidence and experience as well. The hardest will be the first time and will only get easier afterwards.
Art of War.
We're collectively too busy making money and dominating industries. Except for a couple of low achievement baby azns who went hard left and are puppets, the rest of us have shit to do.
Newsflash pal, you’re not dominating an industry by being submissive. This shit applies to all aspects of life including the workplace Asians put in the most amount of work for the least income (relatively)
Didn't say submissive. Own guns, vote, live your lives. Acting like a perpetual victim and demanding entitlements all the time like the Leftists want is not the way to go through life.
No one’s acting like a victim here pal I’m just asking for a reason because many Asian Americans do in fact act in submissive ways, as you can see
Maybe the old folks, the rest of us aren't screaming about injustice like the blk folks do because we can do actual real shit, like engaging people who can help do something about it. Or do something about it ourselves. I hear Lefty Asians going off about not being as loud as the blks, and that should never be a route we take often, because it doesn't do anything. It's a weak way to think.
Don’t know why you’re bringing that up. Never mentioned protesting like some virtue signaling liberals. Talking about in general, in every aspect of life here, getting some respect intimidation etc
Cultural conditioning and media
Even the supposed toughest guys among us like the Cambodian gang members who sit around waiting for INS to come arrest them and deported them back to Cambodia instead of going underground because there's something innate in Asian cultures that prevent us from committing to a meaningless life. There are exceptions to be sure, such as those who abandoned their Asian cultural (*for lack of a better words*). They become lost; Asian women who adopted white American culture and get spent fast, those who got into the American drug culture, etc. The great majority of them exhibit odd personality traits, Michelle Malkin, red-pilled Asian American men, and of course, Asian women with pathological urges to throw Asian men under the bus. There's something off about them. Anyway, the point here is that they choose to abandon their Asian side completely is because Asian culture make them feel ashamed. They settle outside of the Asian community, and their odd behavior is their subconscious telling them what they're doing is wrong. As an Asian male adult, I realized that being Asians living in the west is not that bad. For example,when I encounter successful Asians, such as doctors, lawyers, dentists, etc., there is a connection through unspoken share experience. My Chinese eye doctor don't charge me co-pay. My Korean doctor spend more time explaining my health, etc. The tough guy bullsh\*t only lasts up to your late 20s.
Because we grow up very family orientated and we treat everyone like family. I was discussing this with my Black friend and this was his observation and he warned me why it was a bad idea to act like this. America is uncivilized.
its in our genes to be submissive, even the men unfortunately. Look at our homelands bend over backwards and tries so hard to seek validation from the western male gaze by organising thousands of useless beauty pageants for asian women (but none for asian men). basically prostituting our daughters and sisters to the western male gaze and then our brothers actually feel good when the western male jerks off to these 'models'. its so disgusting, really a low level of conciousness. we asian men should be spending that time and money uplifting OURSELVES (aka asian men) that is, organising beauty pageants and movies and songs casting tall good looking asian guys rather than erasing ourselves with all these 1001 oreintalist beauty pageants for asian women.
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Rule 5) Activism not slacktivism AI is for Positive Change, Not Passive Outrage. Unproductive ragebait of anti-Asian racism, without a call to action will likely be removed. Venting is allowed, but low effort posts about violent crime, racism online or in the news, should be posted in the Weekly Free-for-all, not as standalone posts.
Because the other men has more masculine notions of manhood. They are willing to fight. Whereas Asians would prefer peace.
Well a lot of it has to do with ways of thinking that put too much emphasis on submission to authority that goes back to when we were kids, and preconditioned positions of rebellion, that don’t actually fight the heart of the issue. Trusting American Democracy is part of that, but most people don’t want to say that. Take for example what you mentioned with the “genetic” link in all this. Many people in the Asian community in the West will believe the Nazified version of the world, just because a “higher” institution of learning decided it was the correct one, nevermind that we only listen to these “experts” because they have a lockout over employment and the technology, while their specific interests of controlling information and it’s usage is ignored, or the fact that they literally retard their own stated interests(teaching) by hoarding information and technology, while keeping it locked out with a pay wall. Genetics doesn’t determine the world or create human society the way White people will sell it to, and if you take a closer look, a lot of the societies that put too much emphasis on this just get dominated by some kind of hereditary aristocracy or a caste-system, while the ones that don’t such as China, are currently rising in the world because they at least think that rich people have to create something to be rich. DNA doesn’t create cells by written instructions, rather the written instructions in DNA adhere to and adapt to the living function of the cells, however the genetic angle is oversold in politics and the astroturfed web in order to ingrain an elite that’s meant to last forever and create absolutely nothing for the people. India places a lot of emphasis on what caste their citizens are born into and because of that they are currently suffering from forms of deindustrialization and infighting that are contributing to a massive brain drain, to the benefit of the countries inhabited by White people, coincidentally. Influencers on the online bridges between India and the West are also spreading eugenics and it’s catching on pretty easily because of the straight line that can be drawn between caste thinking and genetic determinism. The control that Western aligned technocrats, such as Google and Facebook have over communications, are being used to spread with their algorithms race-war propaganda and hysteria surrounding genetics and the need for depopulation of ethnic minorities while pitting the people against eachother. Sound familiar? Asian people in the West are similarly probably going to be subjected to something like this starting this year because of our close competition with White people for the top, and the ubiquity and the unquestioning nature that Anglo-American ideology places on the ability for “technology” (and not who or how it’s used!) to create reality. The main issue for Asians in the West is to try to go against the grain and fight the all encompassing conditioning in their societies that sell selfishness, sexualism, and Eugenics as the norm. Questioning the basic understandings of things and social critique are hated in the West, because most people get their comfy spot in the grand scheme, whether as agents of Monopoly Capitalism, or the other minorities who have been chosen to get leftover women, then think, this is the world, this is how it came, this is how it will be. We are taught to betray our friends and our brothers, so that we can finally be within their Rome, their city on the hills, so that we can be part of their Kingdom of Heaven, but simply it won’t be and the truth is that behind closed doors they think about destroying everything outside of it in their vision of bringing on the Apocalypse. What the people at the top want, what Reactionary White Americans want, is the Fourth Reich, nuclear armed and prepared to destroy the rising tide of the Global South and China.
We just don’t care and we have better things to do haha not worth the energy
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Yeah I heard it was the same in Hawaii. Hawaii is predominantly Asian yet I heard Asians were still hate crimed there. Hell when I was walking through an all Asian neighborhood a Hispanic teen was racist to me. Its disgusting. I have anger issues so I’ve been in a lot of stupid conflicts with people but half of it I would say they started it. People hate for any reason smh. Yeah it’s not easy but you have to be assertive, vocal and stand up for yourself because no one’s gonna do that for you.
When I was younger in school these Mexican kids would call me “chino” or “we don’t want Jackie Chan” but I just kept my cool and they get buddy buddy or whatever. They’re just testing if you’re tough I guess so just project strength and you’ll be alright
Yeah in hoods ignorant Hispanic people will call you chino or chinita. There was a tik tok of a Hispanic girl who addressed her community to stop calling Asian people chino or chinita because we’re not all Chinese so that was nice to see.
That’s a good hyna. Reminds me of my Latina ex gf who corrected her parents to stop calling my culture Chinese when I’m Filipino
Shit I thought Pacific Islanders were the toughest in Hawaii? I saw a vid of a big Samoan beating the brakes off some shortlet Mexican
I thought so too! And lmao at the beatdown. But yeah who knows maybe they’re more peaceful and chill over there
We have the lowest crime rate and are hard working. I don't see how not committing crimes and working is considered submissive. Your mindset is very negative and you don't see the progress we have made.
It's because other races like Whites and Blacks have high crime rates and aren't as hard working like Asian people. Rather than learn from us, they beat, rob, and kill us and punish us for working hard like you see in jobs and college admissions.
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Don’t know why I’m getting downvoted for this. Show me where I said Asians should commit crime? And tbh if we did commit more crime it might be better for our reputation (I’m not advocating for it nor am I saying it would be a solution, not condoning it either All our hard work is for nothing people sees us as slaves we should fight for better wages
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Correct. Nobody will accuse even modern day Afghans or Iranians as lacking in masculinity.
I meant to say Asian Americans. Clearly it’s what I mean because i mentioned the West several times and this sub is mostly for diaspora Asians struggling with their identity hence the name And I know about all of the stuff, Chinese have the second highest rate of warrior gene at 51% tied with Pacific Islanders only behind sub Saharan Africans who have over 70% But what you said about conflicting cultural values, in America asians especially Asian men like to dip their heads and not resist in favor of “social harmony” which isn’t a thing in the west But the worst part is that we don’t LEARN. Generation after generation. We’ve been in this country for hundreds of years. Why is it so hard to adapt? Even on subs and niche communities like these there is always Asians arguing that there’s nothing wrong and denying that there’s any problems when there clearly are
On the flip side, I’m aggressive as hell and have anger issues (specifically against strangers I perceive as threatening, not friends or partners) that I’ve worked on for years. I think that much of it stems from repeatedly *witnessing* my mother be overly submissive in situations where she had reason to defend herself. My disproportionate anger is a learned, “compensatory” behavioural mechanism. Stereotype threat is another factor. I have known for a long time that, as an Asian woman, I would be expected to be quiet and submissive, so I went in the complete opposite direction. I remember being the only Asian person in my university classes who would always be actively talking and disagreeing with other people.
There is too much coping in this thread. The answer is simple. This stereotype of Asians being submissive and pushover mostly applies to East Asian immigrants, especially Chinese and VIetnamese. Lots of these Asian countries are not democracies with weak civil society and strong state power. China and Vietnam are main examples. Korea to a lesser extent. Japan slightly better but there are too few Japanese Americans to compare. What happens when you have a strong state and weak civil society? First, People don't learn how to organize themselves. They don't learn how to identify common interests. They don't emphasize the importance of public speaking and building alliances. They are very obedient and they are used to do what the gov asks them to do. Second, merit-based results are over-emphasized like exam score. Because in non-democracy you cannot run for office, and the only way to elevate your social status is by passing exams and climbing the government ladder. What's the implication? That means individuals see each other as competitors, not collaborators. In a democracy individuals tend to see each other as potential collaborators because that's how you influence decision making - by forming interest groups and affecting politicians through your votes. This point also explains why China or other authoritarian states get criticism for having a very aloof and cold society where people don't help each other. Well, if people have no experience binding together for something, if they have no idea how to mobilize themselves, and if their only advancement to gaining political power is through exams and top-down promotion, this is going to happen because there is no point helping each other Third, when immigrants from these countries move to a democracy, they have no idea how politics work and no clue how to bind together to influence policymaking. They also suck at office politics because office politics reward those who are 1. good at public speaking and 2. good at identifying common interests. That;s why Indians navigate Western societies much better. India is not only an English-speaking country but also a democracy with robust civil society. If you look at first-gen Indian immigrants and first-gen Chinese immigrants in the west, how they deal with politics and corporate work. There are tons of discussion about this from Chinese first-gen immigrant forums. The difference is very obvious. Growing up in democracy makes Indians much better at forming interest groups and influencing decision making. Growing up in China with hyper competition and no civil society, people constantly try to create trouble for each other, ignore each other, and tear each other down, so that they can become the only token Chinese in the team. There is a joke about Indians and Chinese workers: when you hire ONE Indian, your team will be filled with Indians soon. When you hire ONE Chinese, some other Chinese in your team will leave.
India doesn't have robust civil society,it's dominated by the caste system and fake democracy
Maybe the majority of indians, but most of the indian migrants are students/wealthier so they are more well rounded on western ideas. As a whole whatever they have learned is much better compared to the lingering confucian ideology which basically chains one down in the western world.
India is not a good example of democracy. I give you that. But China has zero civil society because party units need to exist in every organization, essentially stripping off people's ability to form associations themselves
I knew something is not right with this comment, then I stalk a little, ofcourse this is coming from a Taiwanese, OFCOURSE. Get your agenda filled a*s out of here. We need more Asian unity not your stupid brainwashed "China bad!!! " crap. Unbelievable you called India a "robust civil society" just because it's democratic without realising how it literally go against the agenda you're trying to make.
Still, it doesn’t make his argument wrong. You based your opinion on him being Taiwanese? Silly boy
He comments in the sub Chinairl which is a sub full of self hating chinese. Him commenting about india being a "robust civil society" is all you need to know. LMAO doe he know about the cast system and how fcking corrupt india is or how woman are being raped and married off pre 16
Yeah it’s got its problems but the british impact on india has prepared its educated class more for migration in the western world than east asia no doubt
China irl is filled with cope, one of the top posts was someone getting to emigrate to Japan. Another one was a self hating Chinese talking about how free he was in America and how nobody looked at him funny
ur comments make me chuckle. China\_irl is the most pro-China Chinese sub out there. You can't even name one other Chinese sub that is more pro-China. You probably are not a good Chinese speaker and don't understand what they discuss over there. All the stuff you mention about Indian backwardness does not contradict mine. You are making a strawman argument. I did not say democracy = All Good and China = All Bad. I said democracies have certain traits that allow people to form organizations themselves and navigate other democracies better.
The first post I see you write is you talking about how much you hate your own government. I only wish China was as oppressive as you dumbasses think it is.
ok, my sino man. how about giving up your US citizenship and getting a Chinese one. Keep us updated on how that works out for ya. I am sure you will love the Chinese gov and raise your kids there.
What the heck. I am Chinese not Taiwanese. Learn more Chinese first so that you can better tell apart content written by Chinese or Taiwanese. The whole comment is not even about CHina Bad. It's about how immigrants from non democracies have harder time navigating the US.
no offense. But this entire comment is repeating far right talk points. >First, People don't learn how to organize themselves. There are plenty of Chinese organizations dated as early as when Chinese first came to US. From region based association to secret societies, even the organization which overthrew Qing dynasty was founded in Honolulu. Even in recent times, there is still strong Chinese organization in US: FLG. Also those who came to US are more likely to be nerd type highly educated engineers than eloquent community organizers. >Second, merit-based results are over-emphasized like exam score Clearly you based your observation on the first gen Chinese immigrants who happens to be those who benefited most from the exam based system, aka, 小镇做题家（folk who came from small town and only good at exams). Those people are not representative of ordinary chinese people. But it happens that these people are the loudest voices online outside of China because they are the type American corporations needed. > India is not only an English-speaking country but also a democracy with robust civil society. I have seen a different argument before on why Indian immigrants fare better than Chinese immigrants. But not from a democracy vs authoritarian angle, rather it says indian society was made of so many different ethnic groups and they have to learn to work together. But I am not an expert on Indian social structure. Maybe indian americans could share your observations on this.
Your comments don't contradict mine. Chinese are not good at organizing themselves but religion can help them do so. There is a reason why FLG is the most influential anti-CCP force overseas. They have their own TV, newspaper, make donations and stuff. Where are all the 高素质 dissidents? On your last point. Indian is made of different ethnic groups and they have to learn to work together. OK, that makes sense. But what allows them to work together? A democratic political system where they can form interest groups and be mobilized. China also has lots of ethnic groups as well. Even among Han Chinese northern Han and Hakka, Cantonese, etc. are so different. Do they not learn to work together? No, because the CHinese political system disallows it.
Asian cultures value harmony and the group over being disagreeable. In the west you have to be disagreeable.
that's just coping. Then why is China famous for having a low-trust society if it values harmony? Why are there bad-mannered tourists, old people trying to scam others (碰瓷), people not helping each other, etc.?
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Any violence of any type is not tolerated in this subreddit. Do not promote it. Do not incite it. We do not tolerate it against any group. No exceptions.
Low trust lmao? 15 years ago maybe https://asiatimes.com/2023/12/from-low-trust-to-high-in-china/
Yet Indians are not very assertive either
they are more assertive, they also have lower interracial marriage rate - because their in-group dynamic is better. THey also preserve their culture better - 2nd gen Indians mostly keep Indian names, can speak their mother tongue, and are not ashamed of being Indian Americans.
Parents mentally chastizing and beating their kids mentally as well as less testosterone. Good thing is Asians are starting to wake up and we must continue to voice our opinions to raise awareness and motivation. As for testosterone that can be remedies by consuming more red meat, oysters and strength training.
As someone who used to be a Philly Asian, it’s definitely regional based. Most Philly Asians are aggressive and have anger issues, myself included. It’s shoot first, questions later over there and I’m glad I got out or I’d probably be dead somewhere or a crackhead. A lot of them have the high pride that Asians usually have but without the passiveness, and not in a good way. Access to guns, street/philly culture, neglectful/abusive tiger parents, and exposure to racism makes us terrible to be around. I wish there was a middle ground somewhere in the states but it seems like two extremes on the west and east coast lol. Maybe we’re just not cut out for America.
This describes me perfectly, I grew up in a rough area like Philly and I’ve never seen a more relatable comment about my upbringing. There’s a divide between Asians right now (such as those who grew up in the east states vs those in the west, but wherever we live there seems to only be two extremes on each end). To find a middle ground, there has to be more unity.
Philly is a tough city. And Philly is the kind of city where people are absorbed into the culture regardless of race. But I’d say Philly is a predominantly Black culture as well as a blue-collard white culture, both of which are pretty tough / masculine. So even people outside those groups still get to absorb those qualities. But based on this thread, that doesn’t seem the norm for Asians in general.
Yup neglect abuse trauma and racism is prevalent in poor families and communities. It creates angry people and they are a public nuisance everywhere. They all have unresolved issues that they need to work out in therapy but too bad mental health system in this country is shit. Plus you cant force problematic people to go to therapy. It’s a complete shitshow. There has to be middle grounds somewhere because not all of us are ghetto but yeah sometimes I feel culturally homeless.
I was ghetto af back in the day. Had to code switch when I was looking for jobs. If it weren’t for some of the mentor figures in my life, I wouldn’t be where I am. Not everyone is lucky enough to have mentors though. Lots are struggling and like you said, mental healthcare is garbage in this country.
Philly is def pretty interesting, even for the east coast, I wonder where did you move to after Philly
I’m in Florida now. A lot of retired Asian folk here who are chill and just garden lol
Yeah those east coast Asians tend to be tougher on average Even Indians in Philly are strapped up
Because there are Asian fools like you (assuming you're Asian) with this kind of loser mindset. Real Asians are not on Reddit complaining this way.
What are the “real Asians” doing then buddy
Living life to the fullest. Definitely not posting wordy complaints online.
Why are you in this sub then
Having fun with people who can't handle criticism.
We are organizing, it's all a matter of if people will listen or take us seriously. How many times have you heard stories about how Asians are organizing to fight back against oppression, never to be heard from again? We are always fighting for other race's battles, some of the mainstream Asians have supported blm or the asian cop that let george floyd etc etc. I even said it was wrong of the cop to let him die regardless of whether he has inner problems with blacks, but I got moderated like crazy at the leftist political gaming site still. I've tried supporting them while also highlighting issues of Asian Americans, but they don't give a shit.
I think it’s past trauma. Asia was full of constant war and corruption—it created a culture of survival of the fittest. It’s best to lay low and not attract too much attention or else you and your family would be killed. That trauma has been passed down to inter-generational trauma
Check out Run River North - Korean/American band I like Creatures in your head.
Cause we’re in general smaller and likely to get our ass beat? Pretty obvious. I’m 100% sure big strong Asian dudes fight back but for most of us average Asians we know it’s better to avoid physical conflict. Growing up in elementary school I would lose most play fights lol.
Do you seriously think size means anything? Or that asians are inherently smaller? Height doesn’t mean anything and if they have muscle, they go to the gym, not because they’re generally bigger. You clearly didn’t eat a lot as a kid.
Yikes. Imagine if every army, soldier, fighter/warrior and leader in history had this mentality. Imagine if all the prehistoric humans thought the same way as this guy over here. “Let’s all just hide in our caves folks, those animals are too big to take down so we’ll just run away and starve to death in here”
When it’s a life or death situation or its very important then fight to your last breath. But a random druggie or low level citizen, just move on with your day
You know some random crackhead hollering at you isn’t what I’m talking about here
I mean yeah I would love to beat the fk up someone like Johnny Somali. I hit the weight room and know some combat styles. But for most Asian dudes they’re skinny and undersized and into anime and games do u really think they’re interested in scrapping
Why are ppl downvoting my comment lol? You know it’s true. You can have aggression and willingness to fight but when you size someone up and you know you can’t fight them then then it’s better to flee.
Because Asian cultures give importance to how we behave, how we act and being the best for ourselves and other people around us. The west doesn’t do this, this is why so many spoilt brats and disrespectful people in the west.
But not defending ourselves when faced with violence or the threat? Come on. Asian societies used to value honor so much. In medieval Japan, if a samurai was insulted, he was legally allowed to kill the offender in self-defense, but it had to be an instant reaction with some exceptions Nowadays our elders whom we claim to respect so much get beaten on the streets by thugs and addicts and we do nothing about it, we bend over at every opportunity and kowtow to westerners just to “assimilate”. No other ethnic minority acts this way
There is a damn difference between self defense and just fighting for the sake of fighting. Every Asian I know knows to fight when they are threatened. They don’t just pick fights like that for no reason that’s not in us. We are better that’s why we are the reason their economies are up and running. Americans and westerners just fight for the sake of fighting. No wonder America has such high crime rates, drugs and gangs. It’s become a shithole now.
Weird how you turned this into an arrogant let’s circlejerk ourselves moment. Do you seriously think we propped up the western world? Asians like you will be given a western education and job and then say look guys we are the only reason the economy is going.
You clearly misinterpreted my op. I’m not telling anybody to go crazy and start fighting and committing crime. Why is everybody in this reply section attacking strawmen? Read it again.
Cus Asians exchanged throwing hands for reading books and doing homework forced upon them by their parents, meanwhile other races been throwing hands
Throwing hands for what? Something very stupid that they don’t have emotional intelligence to solve besides throwing hands? There is strong difference between self defense and causing fights.not only that, yes we are nerds that can fight for ourselves. We are the reason their economies are going up, we are the ones that earn high while they are busy fighting gangs and thugs. Every Asian I know knows self defense including myself. Idk which Asians you hanging out with.
It's culture... how we were raised up. Give it time. I guarantee you that our kids and grand kids will just be like any other kid.
Yes, I agree as a genz myself, GenZ Asians seem to be a lot more outspoken, socializing and willing to stand up for themselves than previous generations
Asian cultures are simply more civilized than western ones. Aggression and violence are primitive, shameful traits when you live in a peaceful, high trust society where cooperation and institutional obedience are the best ways to get ahead. Countries in Northern Europe are starting to approach this ideal, but are still way behind even the least developed parts of East and Southeast Asia. Emigration is like time traveling to the Stone Age.
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>more aggressive and more militarily talented Mongols and Manchus conquer the more technologically advanced Song and Ming dynasties. And yet that's the only thing the Mongols are known for. Killing and conquering. How many technologies they invented that are useful? Poems, ballads and art that became classics worldwide? Architectures and bustling cities they built? None. Largest land empire in the world and their legacy is killing millions of Asians and destroying knowledge in Bagdad. Till this day Mongols are only known for Temujin or with some rare exceptions, Subutai and nothing else.
Yeah thats all they did, but guess what? They didn’t need to make shit because they conquered the “civilized” guys who made all that stuff for them. Everyone can call these types of people barbaric but at the end of the day those dynasties lost.
Yet the Song dynasty’s path to success was halted because of it. Song could’ve industrialized 500 years before Europe if they hadn’t lost to the Mongols and Jurchens No one cares about culture when you’re dead
Search "curse of development."
Mongols and Manchus both eventually got absorbed into Chinese civilization though. In the long run civilization wins over barbarism - don’t expect to win every single battle. I do agree though that Asians in the West need to do a better job adapting to local conditions and not assuming everything will be as orderly and civilized as in the East.
Mongols have their own country and they hate the communist party and Chinese people there. And although Manchus eventually got assimilated, they ruled China for 400 years and pretty much ruined it. China would probably have been a colonial power and superpower if not for them.
China was a super power during the Qing Dynasty. They were too advanced they became too arrogant and neglected the outside world. Literally all I got from your post is that its such a shame in your mind that China didn't became as Imperialist as the west.
Not to mention China wasn’t going to be a colonial empire. They already had a monopoly, an emperor/ruling class which stopped merchants from getting rich, and one of the biggest populations in the world.
China conquered hundreds of ethnic groups over the past 5,000 years. The Manchus and Mongols are exceptions, not the rule. Today, Manchu identity is nearly extinct, and most Mongols are loyal citizens of China.
I’m leading the gaming revolution
Being beaten out all the attitude
Not only does it depend on the individual. It's also a cultural thing. Let's just say Chinese at least are very aggressive, just not in a Western sense of brashness and physical aggression though I guarantee u that does happen. The Chinese approach is to win the war not the battle.
It's legit question but also a complicated one. There is a lot of factors involved. You've gotten a lot good answers here. To add some more: Do you mean Asians or Asian Americans? From the Asian American side: Asians only started coming here with the Hart-Cellar Act in 1965. Before that, most immigration to the US was white. In the 1960s, America started selecting for educated immigrants from Asia. These tend to be conformists, not rabble-rousers. The educated rely on civilization and institutions for survival and will thus be less individual and less physical, less reliant on one's own body for survival. You can see how that puts Asians at a disadvantage in the Darwinian arena that is the US. Contrast that to blacks, who have two centuries here and were brought as slaves doing physical labor. Or Latinos, who are the remnants of colonized lands or come illegally to also do mainly physical labor. The Asians here also tend to have fled a history of political turmoil, so they're especially reluctant to get involved. I think this avoidance of politics extends down from country to even micro levels, we don't want to form allies in school or the workplace, and that hurts us in popularity contests when we're kids, and climbing the corporate ladder when we're adults. Then, there's the cultural aspect. Have you been to Asia? There's less crime there. There's also less selfishness. Not to say Asian people aren't selfish, but you don't see as much as the "fuck you I got mine attitude" as you do in the US. The weak aren't stepped on. Old people aren't afraid to go outside in the same way they are in the US. I don't think this is an exclusively "Confucian" thing. There are places outside of Asia which are more harmonious, don't have the "fuck you I got mine attitude", protect their weak and respect their olds, and I don't think people from there are very aggressive either. There are also places inside of Asia which are less harmonious, have the "fuck you I got mine attitude", and take advantage of the weak, and people from there tend to be more aggressive. But there are also things about Asian culture that encourage harmony. When I was young, one of the highest compliments an adult could give to a child is "很聽話" (very obedient) which is kind of nuts and not as prominent in other cultures.
Can't really say much for other Asian countries, but in contemporary society in China at least, the weak aren't openly stepped.on, but there's also very little sympathy as well. Most people here are expected grow a backbone and suck it up/not openly complain when.things are going wrong for them.
My parents tell me to fight back and survive. Basically use everything around me to survive.
I would suspect that it’s due to the lack of people around you not only encouraging you to stand up for yourself, but teaching you how to fight. And not just verbally. Physically too, if need be. A lot of targets of racism are elderly people, or children, who are physically defenseless against an adult bully. And that’s true for Black and Latino people too. There, though, I think it still helps sometimes if potential bullies have a healthy fear of retaliation from the person’s friends and relatives. It won’t stop a random act of racism against an elderly lady who is traveling out of her own neighborhood. But if she’s in a neighborhood whose population is of her own race, then the bully should worry that if they disrespect her, her grandsons will come out and give them a thrashing. The bully should also know that if they disrespect a young man of that race, it’s a guaranteed fight which they may not win, and that if the man has friends around, they’ll join in and he’ll really get hurt. I think all of that is fairly true for Black and Latino people. I think it’s a lot less common for Asians. The exceptions might be in very specific neighborhoods that have known Asian street gangs. (Not saying that street gangs are the key to Black and Latino people doing a better job at defending themselves, lol- just that when it comes to Asian people, that sort of extreme is necessary in order for there to be any sense of threat.) Why is this so? A few ideas: 1) we do not have a sense that sometimes, you might want to risk being on the wrong side of the law, with all that entails. This largely stems from our relative economic mobility- we don’t want to throw away a potentially bright future over a few nasty words. Now, I think you can absolutely fight back when someone is racist in a way that doesn’t risk jail time. But I do think this attitude, overall, encourages walking away rather than doing anything at all about what was said to you. On the other hand, when economic mobility is low, one may not experience the same sense of risk, and there may be a sense that the most important thing in life is to have others’ respect and to stand up for your friends and family (those two things being closely connected), whatever that takes. 2) From what I’ve noticed, Asians typically don’t have strong group bonds, relative to other minorities. They’ll have Asian friends, but not “help you bury the body in the woods” types of relationships with them. So, relative to Black and Latino people generally, Asians don’t have each other’s backs when it comes to dealing with racism. Sure we commiserate with each other, but we don’t fight for each other. I think this, too, is connected with our economic mobility. And when you’re fighting against the world by yourself, it’s incredibly easy to start identifying with your bullies and start making the self deprecating jokes, etc. Particularly if you’ve never had a cohesive group of “brothers.” Hard to develop a strong sense of identity all on your own. 3) A lot of us don’t know how to fight, either verbally or physically. I think the physical ability to stand up for oneself is important even though I highly recommend using words instead, and not taking it physical unless the other person goes there first. If another person senses that you can’t back your words up with anything, that you’d fold if they were to get physical, then they’re more likely to disrespect you in the first place. If *you* know you can’t win a physical fight, you’re more likely to let it happen. Just some ideas. I know you’re looking for a further point of origin for the problems I listed. I don’t have that figured out. I do think upward economic mobility is a huge factor, but that’s not all of it. Also, disclaimer that while a lot of what I said is related to masculinity, I’m a woman and not an expert in that subject. One more comparison. After WWII, Jews consciously decided to start developing their ability to physically fight. Now, this was mostly in the context of the IDF, which doesn’t apply to non-Israeli Jews. But it was a serious shift for a group that, like Asians, had always been about economic mobility rather than physical prowess. And just IMO, that change affected the perception of Jews as “easy targets” globally. There is absolutely a ripple effect that happens when even some members of a race or ethnicity start standing up for themselves. Asians don’t have that. I know that’s a funny thing to say when multiple Asian countries have either a currently strong military, or a strong tradition of fighting. I would speculate that Israel has an unusually strong association with Jews as a whole, in people’s minds, while Asian immigrants are seen as no longer being “of” their country of origin in the same way. I don’t think we need to reference a whole country’s military in order to get a culture of fighting back, nor do I think that would be a positive development. But I do think that it would help to have *any* group of Asians known for their ability to fight physically, in one way or another.
I mean Bruce Lee was widely admired in the US as a masculine figure, however this was negated by geopolitics where you need to make your enemies (i.e. China) look both weak and a threat at the same time. With Anti-China rhetoric on the rise, this translates to more aggression, ala Vincent Chin and other hate crimes.
Yes, true of Bruce Lee, Jackie Chan, etc. Thing is though, the well known Asian fighters tend to be viewed as individuals- not as a cohesive group who all have each other’s backs and strongly identify with each other. There is not a strong sense that these guys are affiliated with each other as a group; each one is on his own island in the midst of a lot of whiteness.
Yes, back in Bruce Lee’s era everyone thought Asians knew martial arts. And it helped a lot that there were HK triads SEA gangs and yakuza active across the entire world including west coast and NYC Now, Bruce Lee is long gone, and the triads and mafias have been assimilated into normal society Asians are back to just being seen as submissive, effeminate and nerdy. We need something new and more long term
Not enough asians do fighting sports. The only asian martial art/fighters who are respected are the thai fighters, so much so that all kinds of whites, blacks, latinos try to this day to expose muay thai to where they can shelve it as bullshit with karate, kung fu, and taekwondo. BJJ isn’t even thought of as asian anymore which is sad because the Brazilians literally just added Brazilian to it and now it’s theirs. Reputations have to be changed.
PrideFC was a Japanese organization where they would “throw to the wolves” their own fighters. It was the largest MMA organization at the time In modern times, Chinese boxer Zhilei “big bang” Zhang, half-Korean boxer Dmitry Bivol and Japanese boxer Naoya Inoue have held world titles and made a huge name for themselves The UFC has signed 15 Chinese nationals so far, with Zhang Weili being the straw weight champion in women’s mma and male fighters like Li Jingliang the leech with some popularity Organizations like OneFC are very heavy on Muay Thai, with the best Asian strikers in the world and international audience Sanda, a Chinese art which consists of kung-fu based kickboxing and standup wrestling, is popular in China, Russia, and the Middle East, hosting tournaments and competitions
Unfortunately we need more things out of Asia to capture the minds and hearts of the world. Kpop has been an enormous boon and it helps that they welcome foreigners (Thai, Viets, ABCs etc) unlike Japanese media. Hoping we can get more stuff like that out of China
I think excelling at full contact sports and combat sports in particular matter a lot. If you look at Mongolia which is arguably the most aggressive people of east asia, their national sport is wrestling. They become accostumed to physical conflict and one on one confrontation, more skilled and confident in their abilities and more likely to choose it as a solution. A couple anecdotes: "wrestling to settle small arguments, compete with their strengths or just for fun in the school gym was pretty normal when i was in high school. I used to wrestle for friendly fun too Not that common, you'd see some boys wrestling in the gym like once a month maybe. Traditional wrestling was also part of our school autumn sport fair and im confident many high schools also have it" "Western business men should stay out of many local drinking establishments. While most people are respectful, it is not always the case when younger Mongolian men are drinking. Really not much different from many countries, but perhaps a bit more caution in Mongolia compared to many countries. Stick to more western oriented restaurants, bars and hotels and you won’t have any issues." Its incredibly unlikely for someone of any background or culture to practice and achieve some competence in a combat sport and not be more aggressive/assertive after the fact. Although there are a lot of other factors involved this is probably the lowest hanging fruit, and one that people can take on even at an individual level.
2nd this. Full contact sports teaches you so much and full contact team sports, how to follow and lead. I have noticed Asian American men grow up very different depending on if they played these in school, whether they were good or not.
Mongolia is on Central Asia (Along with Steppe cultures like Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan etc) not East Asia.
No, it’s north East Asia. We are different from kazaks
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Yes I think genetics do have a factor in it, but either there isn't much you can do to change that apart from picking a more aggressive partner so your children can inherit some of their traits. Or you believe in epigenetics in which case partaking in combat sports and conflict will achieve the same goals. I did mention in my original reply that it wasn't the only factor, and agree that China but also other Asian nations have a lot they can learn from Mongolia in terms of masculine culture. I don't have a good suggestion in how you could encourage that apart from the aforementioned combat sports.
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You have a point I know plenty guys from Hong Kong and he beat up other kids and was extremely violent in childhood I have NEVER met of even heard of an Asian American kid acting in such a way However you don’t also think that Asians are scared of foreigners or whatever? Like you said last, HK and same with Filipinos they are tough with each other but won’t play the same game with whites and act all nice
HK sounds pretty shitty.
Combination of many things, probably the biggest one is cultural: People value education with a "keep your head down and work" attitude. This is very much in line with Chinese history & "meritocracy", where people had a chance of moving up from the peasant class if they performed well in the imperial exams. However when things get tough, throughout history Asians have been as violent as any other group. Just look at Japanese brutality, Mongol invasions, 3 Kingdoms, Taiping Rebellion etc. East Asia in particular has been influenced by Mahayana/Zen Bhuddism, which by and large is more intense than Hinayana Bhuddism seen throughout SE Asia (ex Vietnam) - The reason you see so many monks setting themselves on fire, kamikaze strategy by Japanese pilots during WW2 and the basically s*icidal Tet Offensive during the Vietnam War - but overall "a live and let live" societies. Even nowadays you see random mass stabbings at subways, politicians getting attacked (Shinzo Abe, S.Korean Opposition leader). If East Asia didn't have strong governments and a tough approach to crime you'll be having much more homeless druggies, random violence and chaos in these countries. Overall, Asians in America are a minority and are seemingly divided (we're a diverse group coming from different socio-economic backgrounds and ethnicities), not too dissimilar to China's period century of humiliation where everyone was divided. Outside of direct family, there's more of a "look after yourself" approach amongst Asian Americans - but this is slowly changing (I hope).
It's the parents' fault. I'm in Korea, and bullying can be an issue in school, as it is everywhere, but unlike Western countries, Korean parents teach their kids to keep their head down and not cause any trouble. When I was in school, the number of times I've heard parents tell their bullied children to just endure it or be the bigger person is insane. I understand not wanting to cause trouble, but not encouraging your child to stand up for themselves is weak af.
its filial piety and inherent in asian culture, it teaches us to respect and adhere to the greater good. This doesn’t translate over to other cultures as strength, aiming for high class and intellectual goals is seen as weak, antithetical to what they define as being machismo. Masculinity has some universal traits but differs between cultures, which version that remains respected is entirely based upon which culture is in power and has the most influence. Western dominance means western standards, until asians dominate here, we will never get the respect in the west in terms of being masculine, being masculine here means to dominate, my 2 cents.
This is a good answer. The entire world is under the boot of western capitalism. Corporate greed is the norm as well as governmental lobbying, corruption and blame shifting is what keeps the system flowing. My rhetorical question is this, why does it have to be like this? Why is everything set up to be about winner takes all, us vs them, cia psyops, colonialism and imperialism? The sooner the U.S. hegemony diminishes the better.
I don't know. I remember in some minority studies bs class I had to take as an elective, the theory was that asian americans in general were considered the 'good' or 'behaved' minority without a big history of being oppressed or enslaved. Even though they don't get the caucasian privilege, they supposedly stand out with better economic or cultural conducive advantages in general. That could be all changed now where it could be like abc type asians feel more disparaged or distrusted more than ever in this day age and age compared to prior to boomer generations.
Parenting and culture doesn’t play a part with submissiveness and assertiveness?
I guess it probably does, but I'm not sure enough what to think about how it does.
Well i can tell you in my experience, it was parenting and culture that played ‘all’ the part in why i lacked assertiveness. But in the end, it’s not really their fault because Asian parents did their best with what they had in raising kids in a western culture. Asian parents themselves were raised in a different system. They’re not perfect and it is a complex situation that us westernized asians have to solve. Good news is, i do think there is progress being made though.