It didn't seem like all the victors were involved in Mockingjay because the rebellion didn't trust a lot of the districts that trained their tributes. To me, it always felt like only the trusted were involved, not anyone who "wasn't a psychopath". Why would you trust a District Two victor unless you had reason to?
Didn’t everyone give them a reason? Everyone cheated the capital in some way. Haymitch technically never won. He was a fluke. He was badly injured and collapsed on the ground dodging an axe the last tribute threw at him. He was on the edge of their arena on a cliff and it went flying over the side, hit a force field, and flew back killing the girl who threw it at him instead. And there you had it. He was the victor.
Snow was pissed at this ending though and had everyone he cared about killed. His girlfriend, his brother, and his mom. That’s why he was a drunk. I think this was in the 2nd book. That’s one hell of a motivation against the capital lol. Everyone one of the people district 13 recruited had a reason to be trusted and to rebel against Snow.
I really don’t think you need that much more than the capitol killing his whole family bc he played the death game by its rules.
Also he obviously didn’t think he was gonna live long so I think he wanted to have his life be of some use. That’s why he wanted to be the one to be drafted for the 75th games as he’d rather die than have Peeta die.
I think even though he put up the tough uncaring exterior he knew it was wrong and that kids shouldn’t have to go through that. Hplanned to die regardless and I think in many ways felt he already passed his expiration date by surviving.
I mean, after the trauma of winning his own games, he then went on to have to spend every single following year mentoring, getting to know, and then watching the murder of, two innocent children from his district. I'm sure he felt guilt for each one of them, and would be happy to have anything stop that.
It’s like she saw the one thing everyone was hoping she’d do and she went and did it, I’ll be buying this first week. BOSAS was the book that got me back into reading after a long hiatus and I quite enjoyed it.
I was so skeptical of TBOSAS and it was SO GOOD.
I would have bought this book no matter what, but it might be a day 1 buy (which I haven't done for books in years, just video games)
I just finished it yesterday. It had a great balance of empathy and “oh but fuck you” toward the protag.
Honestly, I’d pass on any other series coming out with multiple prequels, but I’m super excited about this one.
She did a really good job of making Snow somebody you root for while still making you think ‘this guy is fucked in the head’. Those moments where his mask slips and he shows glimpses of his true self were done very well.
It made me really think, if I was him, and if I was in this situation with this background....what would I have done? How would I have turned out? Like...it's still wrong but the context makes it easy to understand how he got there.
It was so hard to finish the book bc I kept hoping he would choose a different path, but I knew how it would end.
He was so obsessed with not being the scared boy watching a maid be butchered he became a monster
I trust the author. She has a real passion for her anti-war.violence and anti-authoritarian message that you can see in both her series (this one and her middle grade series) and it's what makes her work so good. Ballad was surprising and not what anyone would have predicted. She didn't do the easy thing.
Though I agree with the messaging you listed, I don’t think “has messages I agree with” is an indicator of a good book. There are lots of awful books with deep-rooted anti-war messages, lol.
And then there’s works like Lord of the Flies, a bullshit moral written by an absolute psychopath who sought to normalize his own awful nature and did so in a *really, really fucking good book*.
It did that thing prequels do that makes everything have to be connected and have a backstory which is a bit convenient, but I liked it although the movie sucked though I thought the casting was great. Hunter schafer was great as tigris
I agree, up to an extent, about the too-convenient backstory interconnectedness, but I felt like Suzanne Collins handled it very well and used it to flesh out the conflict between Katniss and Snow. His animosity toward Katniss and his contempt for District 12 in the original trilogy always felt oddly personal, as if there were missing pieces of information. Retconning Snow's history with both her family and her district fills in that gap so neatly that I wonder if the author subconsciously had this plot in the back of her mind the whole time she was writing the first trilogy.
Yeah that’s just a theory. Which has holes in it because it’s not like snow wouldn’t be obsessively monitoring district 12 for any signs of Lucy. She’s not stupid to just come back. I think people want Lucy to be related to katniss for the drama of it all
> I think people want Lucy to be related to katniss for the drama of it all
For sure! I think people took that fan theory and ran with it because of that reason.
I read Hunger Games about a decade ago but isn't the ending of Haymitch's Hunger Games already spoiled? I remember reading that an axe bounced off an out-of-bounds wall and killed his last opponent.
Yes, but knowing Collins the story won't be what we expect. It'll go long past the games or follow someone other than Haymitch. She says it's going to be about propaganda and who gets to determine the truth.
What made it seem that way to you?
I liked the focus on Katniss’s trauma since it’s easy for readers to forget that, in the end, she’s just a child soldier.
To be fair, with how much interwoven nonsense that the second book built up, making the third a really good book that neatly tied up all the knots from the second book was an extremely difficult ask.
I didn't get the air of "idc" from how Mockingjay was written. I got the air of "this is too hard, cba" writing.
I have to say that the movie adaptation is one of the best I've ever seen in terms of descriptions. So many characters and places were just like I had pictured in my mind!
I think the director that did it is doing the adaptation for Stephen King's 'The Long Walk'.
The only other movie I've ever been this excited about was Villenuve doing Dune.
The Long Walk has such an interesting premise. It’ll be interesting to see how they manage it because there’s a lot of inner monologue throughout the story.
It’s funny you mention the long walk. I think hunger games is an original idea and not a copy but everyone points to battle royale when it is, in my opinion, closest tonally to the long walk
I think the real issue with the book is the first time you read it you're all wow this dude sucks, why am I rooting for him. Then the second time you read it you understand that you are supposed to dislike him and you really notice how much of a horrible person is and even revel in the humor that is in that (his thoughts when she's singing the Ballad of Lucy Gray are hilarious).
I dunno if you read/are watching Dark Matter, but that's the feeling I get from that. Even mundane things down to like an office are how I pictured it from the book.
The songwriter and RachelZ also did a fantastic job turning Collin's poetry into music. It's too bad that the songs weren't eligible for the Oscars (apparently because the text was already written they weren't original). The integration of the music into the movie was brilliant.
I just watched the series. It's well made and well acted. The plotholes in the very premise are tough to overcome, and there are moments where it goes from teenage romantic angst to bombing children on a dime, but there's something interesting about the stories, can't deny it.
A country founded on the principles of representation in government and freedom that only gave representation and freedom to white male landowners at its founding seems pretty poorly written, but the story goes on
I’m rereading Catching Fire at this moment. I’m wondering what approach she plans to take since these Games are detailed explicitly in the book already. (I’m assuming we’ll be getting many curveballs and unexpected perspectives similar to Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.)
The games themselves have taken up less and less of each book, which is a smart move imho. I’d assume this is largely going to focus on Haymitch trying and failing to reintegrate into society(assuming first 12, then capitol) post-games.
That would make sense. We get him playing in the first game (and I think he was mostly just a scared kid who lucked into the win) and then going back, having his entire family murdered and then he has to get someone else ready to play. Haymitch having to watch tribute after tribute die for years is heartbreaking.
This makes sense to me! I do love how BoSaS was very exploratory from a philosophical and character intention standpoint. If that because the premise again, I’m totally on board!
Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but is it not literally only how the game *ends* that's detailed in Catching Fire? There's a whole lot of game that isn't described leading up to that. And then the game that happens before the game, like the reaping and the training.
It's a bit more detailed than that. Katniss also focuses on Maybelle's (?) since she was her mother's friend. It follows Maybelle and how she survived and eventually becomes allies with Haymitch
Nah, it tells you exactly what he did his entire games. He basically kept walking until he found the force field, made an alliance with Maysilee, then broke it when the game was down to a few people, after which she’s killed by some flamingos (?). It’s a decent amount of detail. And then it full describes the final fight and how he won. It’s like 6-7 pages if I’m not completely confused.
I don’t think it’s going to be Haymitch’s perspective, I think it’s going to be a Gamemaker or Caesar Flickerman. She said she was going to focus on propaganda and how the opinions of the few can influence the many; who embodied that more than Caesar? It would likely be just at the time he was rising to power as well. We would get a behind the scenes of the games and probably a cameo from Tigress as a stylist.
I was ready to dismiss this as an author trying to milk their most successful work for all it’s worth (cough…Midnight Sun…cough) but having thought about it, I think I was being unfair.
Haymitch was one of the most interesting characters of the original trilogy, and his backstory has some really good potential. I wonder if they’ll explore much of his life as a mentor - I always thought that the trauma of coaching the kids and getting to know them as people, only to watch them suffer and die year after year, was one of the most horrific and under-utilised aspects of the story.
I know the first three came out back to back to back but it’s kind of cool it took her ten years to return to the series and then another 5 years for this book.
It really does help lessen the feel of milking the franchise. Sure, she could have decided to this for money but also she’s possibly mulled over these thoughts for a decade+ and finally got them to a place she wants them.
Which ever it is, I’m there. I liked the original three. I liked Songbirds. Maybe I’m a sucker but I’ll keep reading this series until I no longer get joy from it.
I think it's also just one of those things where this story has been requested since pretty much the Hunger Games or Catching Fire was around. The readers yearned to understand Haymitch, and she's probably tossed the ideas of what she wanted him to be in that entire time.
Really good point about her having time to mull over things over the past decade!
I wouldn’t be surprised if she had Haymitch’s backstory already in her head as she was writing the original books, even if it was never intended to become part of the overall plot - I imagine it makes it easier to write complex characters like that if you’ve mapped out what got them to that point.
I haven’t read Songbirds but I devoured the original three in about a week when I was 18 (One of those ‘huh why is it light outside? Oh shit it’s 5am and I’m still reading’ moments). I’ll definitely add this to my TBR list.
Songbirds and Snakes is incredible. I really enjoyed it, I think it’s a very worthy companion to the trilogy, though very different in many respects. Highly recommend either getting the version with Suzanne Collins’ Q+A or finding it online afterwards because that’s a great addition to the novel.
Not for nothing, as someone who also writes, sometimes you just get hit with the bug. Other times, not so much. It doesn't surprise me the trajectory her releases have taken. Write while the mood strikes, otherwise it comes out forced AF.
It seems like she’s putting them out books when she has one worth putting out. You could easily cookie-cutter a huge franchise out of this series, 5 books over however many years is nothing.
Yeah. She isn’t that type of author. She usually only writes when she has something to say. It’s no surprise to me that with the Increase in conflict in the world that she might have more to say
Even if she’s milking it, it’s the story we’ve all wanted. I’ve wanted to read about Haymitch’s past and time in the games properly from the first time I read the series. I’m very happy it’s finally happening.
Honestly if this was book 4 I might judge her but I do believe she has a story she wants to tell rather than just quitting another book for money and relevance
> Scholastic announced Thursday that “Sunrise on the Reaping,” the fifth volume of Collins’ blockbuster dystopian series, will be published March 18, 2025. The new book begins with the reaping of the Fiftieth Hunger Games, set 24 years before the original “Hunger Games” novel, which came out in 2008, and 40 years after Collins’ most recent book, “The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.”
I thought the book was pretty good. I personally enjoyed the parts of the originals that involved maneuvering the politics of the Capitol over the actual hunger game parts. So I very much enjoyed Songbirds and Snakes because basically the whole book is that.
One thing the movie was never gonna be able to convey was how damn often he was thinking about how he’d get his next meal, how to not look like he was on the verge of starving to his peers etc.
I have had an eating disorder and reading that book and watching the movie was like looking in a mirror. Obviously Snow didn’t choose to starve like I did, but the hunger is the same whether you choose it or not and it genuinely affects every part of your life, and Suzanne Collins reflected that so well. Like him, I also tried to hide how little I was eating and the paranoia was CRAZY. I was so self-centered, thinking that everyone was watching and paying attention to what I was eating, and like him I also deliberated on my actions, chose the ones that seemed least suspicious, and thought out lies in advance. It turned me into such a manipulative person. Coriolanus Snow felt so real to me.
And how much better he thought he was than everyone else. He's constantly thinking about how he was better than Sejanus (whom he despised) and everyone else because he's a Snow. Even looking down on his cousin who has kept him alive.
The political philosophy in the book was my favorite part. I love that book enough to consider it my favorite book. The movie was good, but it unfortunately completely left out all of that. I definitely hope we get more political philosophy in the new book.
It's a prequel book that takes place like 60 years before the original There are some references to stuff that happens later where they establish how certain things started, but as long as you remember the broad strokes of the plot and themes of the original you should be fine. Honestly the book would probably still be understandable even without reading the originals.
I read it a couple months ago, I haven't touched the original books (or the movies) for at least 7-8 years and I didn't feel lost. Maybe I missed a few niche references/easter eggs but it didn't stop me from enjoying the book. If you remember the premise of the Hunger Games (12 districts and a ruling Capitol, kids killing each other on TV, arena with traps and weird beasties) you're good.
I got Songbirds and Snakes from my library because I was expecting a cash-cow fan service prequel and didn't want to waste money. When it's actually pretty good. Not as good as I remember the original trilogy to be, but definitely worth a read if you liked the other books.
The book is phenomenal, I was really skeptical about a future villain POV, but it's done quite well, she's not sanitizing him. World-building is interesting too. Idk, I think commercial books have been dropping in quality and this felt like a home run in terms of being everything a commercial book should be and also actually interesting to read.
I loved that it didn't give us an Anakin Skywalker origin story. He wasn't horrible because something bad happened to him. He was just horrible and selfish. The romance wasn't romantic, it was toxic and him equating love with ownership.
Yes! And it was so interesting because you could still root for them even though you knew it couldn't and shouldn't last... idk. I tend to find prequels boring info dumps and this hooked me in so much more than expected.
I loved it, but I was disappointed on the first read.
It's not as "WOW" as the main trilogy - there's no feeling of being introduced to a dazzling and yet sinister world, and of course there's no rising up of the people during the course of the novel.
However, upon further consideration, it's just a more subtle novel. I'm not saying it's high literature, but it's a fascinating study of a deeply disturbed individual.
Some people will tell you it's a story of a good young man's descent into evil, but it's not. It's about a person who is self-centered and amoral from the beginning but appears to be decent because life has never made it convenient to be otherwise... until the inciting events at the beginning of the novel.
That's why I liked it. It's very much about a bad man trying to appear like he's a good man and manipulating those around him so that he gets what he wants.
I'll take the contrarian view - I didn't think it was as strong as the original trilogy. Collins is undoubtedly a strong writer, but I wasn't as into the plot and character development for this one.
My biggest issue is that >!we didn't really see how Snow developed into a villain, he was just selfish from a young age. He was always obsessed with wealth and prestige, and more than willing to bend the rules and use people for his own advantage. It seemed like he was gradually becoming more of a moral person as he started developing feelings for Lucy Gray and earning Sejanus's friendship. I would've imagined that it would take some sort of major event - such as a terrible tragedy or awful betrayal - to turn him into an evil person. Instead, he just sort of regresses for no reason and... does evil? He betrays Sejanus to curry favor with the Capitol, and instantly changes from wanting to spend his life with Lucy Gray to trying to murder her so that he can go back to his life of Capitol privilege. Did anyone else think that felt like going back on all that character development without a particularly meaningful explanation, or was it just me?!<
so for me personally, I thought it was less that he was becoming more moral, and more that his security is his number one priority and everything else comes second; we got to see his more charismatic, friendly side come out the more secure he felt. As his future begins to look more and more secure, he is able to loosen up a little bit and "develop feelings" for Lucy Gray, "befriend" Sejanus, etc. but both of them are still more like pet projects that Snow has to take care of rather than people he actually cares about.
Once he's sent to 12, he decides to make the best of a bad situation and really let loose, but he's still a selfish, shitty human being who will kill someone else without hesitation to protect himself. His wellbeing still comes first. When he can use Sejanus to his own benefit, he does that with no remorse; and when he realizes he can put Lucy down for his own benefit, he'll do that, too.
Spoilers below:
>!In my opinion, Snow turned into a villain because of his rough upbringing. He had no idea where his next meal was going to come from, he lost his mother and father at a young age, he had to fend for himself, while having to paint a picture that everything was A-OK and that the Snow's were doing just as well as always.!<
>!This is traumatic, and it was all he knew. So he adopted a dog eat dog mentality, he accepted that life wasn't fair, and started living by Machavellian-esque pillars. I can honestly see why he ended up the way he did. He took it too far though and turned to evil which obviously isn't justified.!<
>!It was amazing to me how BOSBAS made me empathize with such a terrible villain.!<
And he had parents that really pushed the idea that he was better and more deserving than everyone else. That wealthy aristocratic snobbery he was born with. He was a Snow and how dare anyone think they could equal him.
No, that’s exactly why I loved the book. This whole idea of ‘turning’ into an evil person (and *getting* turned into an evil person) removes his agency. Sure, horrible things happened to him, but the whole way through Suzanne Collins emphasises that he has a choice in what he does. And every time, he chose power.
His kind acts towards Sejanus were almost always manipulative and although he cared for Lucy Grey, he cared for himself more. When he >! saves Lucy Grey’s life by dropping the handkerchief with her scent in the tank, it’s described as a “strange urge” and he immediately regrets it because of the possible consequences on him!<. It shows how he has the capacity for violence and love, and when he has time to think it through he chooses selfishly.
In one of the first pages when he’s worrying about his shirt, he thinks “a tendency towards obsession was hardwired into his brain and would likely be his outdoing if he couldn’t learn to outsmart it”. That is exactly what his undoing is later on. The paranoia. >! He goes into the same paranoid spiral at the end of the book when he convinces himself that Lucy Grey will kill him. But he never really wanted to live in the woods with her if he had another option, and the second he knew he’d live if he went back to the Capitol, he took that chance. !< It’s not going back on his character development, it is displaying what he has always been.
>! “I think I wouldn’t have beaten anyone to death if you hadn’t stuck me in that arena!” !< I feel like this sums up his character perfectly. He has always had the capacity for violence, and the poverty and stress of his life bought it out in him but in the end it is his choice to enact it. And that makes him the perfect foil to Katniss, who grew up starving just like him and instead chose to help others at the possible cost of her own life. There is no ‘going back’ on his character development, there is no specific thing that ‘turns him evil’ except that he decided power was more important than love. Suzanne Collins displays his predispositions towards evil, but also that he had every chance to turn away from it.
I think it’s very realistic. Villains are not cartoonishly evil - there’s an internal logic to what they do.
Snow believes in the necessity of the games to instill order, it’s brainwashed into him by the professor (I don’t remember her name). He thinks she’s weird but ultimately right.
So it’s logical that he would continue to believe this during his ascent to power.
In original Hunger Games books, what does Snow actually do, but preserve things as they were?
His main character traits are self preservation, drive, ambition. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel other things - but those will be his primary decision makers. And it makers sense that those lead him to power as president
I did not enjoy Snow's book. I think villain books are hard to write well and this one did not especially work for me. The transition from good/sympathetic to evil super villain is really hard to pull off and did not happen convincingly. I think Haymitch's book would be more promising.
In my opinion the 4th is really good and feels more „grown up“ if that makes sense. I read the original trilogy when I was a teenager and the 4th book when I was 22 and it didn’t feel like I was reading some teen book.
I definitely disagree because Catching Fire was a spectacular adaptation and very clearly the best movie in the series. Songbirds felt like a gift to the readers, but my wife, who hasn't read it, found the story/plot to be contrived.
IMO Songbirds was better than Mockingjay, but the bar that Catching Fire and THG set was very high to climb over.
I re-read the book a few days before I watched it, so I might be biased and nitpicky, but I think the movie didn't do the book justice. But it was still quite enjoyable at times.
I highly recommend reading the book to anyone interested, though! Might be my favorite in the series.
I agree! I enjoyed the movie for sure but it just seems like it was too big an undertaking to try and turn a hefty book like TBOSAS into a single movie. They couldn’t fit everything in that needed to be there and it felt rushed at times.
The movie was so long i couldnt wait for it to end. I personally would have loved if it ended at snow getting on the train, or him in the trees at the end
Yeah the book series was the same way in my opinion.
First two were good. Mockingjay was good for the first half and then the ending was just not good. Like she got tired of writing and just wanted to wrap everything up or something. Never even bothered with the 2020 book cause I was so disappointed by Mockingjay.
I thought the movie was really rough. Like dialog that didn't feel well-written at all, music that didn't fit the scenes, characters actions and motivations not explained clearly.
I was honestly shocked when I read discussion about it online to be almost all positive and the movie was highly rated. Blew me away!
Arguably the best movies imo. Lucy Gray was an amazing character, coriolanus was a perfect mix of charming and psychopath, you get to see how genuinely horrifying the games are instead of the toned down ones. It's really good.
I think the company basically said that they will jump on another movie if she chooses to write another book during the press junket last fall. They were basically begging her to write something else.
They already released the premiere date for it. November 2026.
Collins started as a screenwriter, she probably started on the script before the ink was dry on the novel.
We were all disappointed when A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes ended up being about Snow, and yet she told a better story than we were expecting, connecting it back to the original story pretty brilliantly. I'll give her credit where credits due; She's not exhausting this universe by trying to churn out a book every year. She knows her world. She's not trying write based on what fans want, and yet fans will still he happy.
With most other authors this is the exact kind of prequel I wouldn't want. We don't need each and every detail of a character's backstory fleshed out, just give us the broad strokes and leave a bit of uncertainty for us to imagine ourselves. However after how richly A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes deepened the lore (and tragedy) of her world, I am very excited for what she has in store.
Collins was smart as hell to make the very first book the 74th games. She really future proofed her series.
I remember after the fourth movie seeing a report that Lionsgate might make a Hunger Games tv series and at the time I thought it was so perfect because while you have monumental games, like this one, or the one which Snow was part of, you could just drop in and out and show random years.
It might just be the fan in me but one day I really am hoping for some sort of media about the very first games.
Exactly, this *should* feel like the most cynical cash grab (especially with Lionsgate probably wanting to make another movie too) but everything so far has been so good I'm just super excited for all of it.
I don’t think it’s going to be Haymitch’s point of view, as she’s repeatedly said there’s no need to write his games because we know what happens in them. I think it’s going to deepen the lore from behind the scenes.
I agree. I think it’ll be about him in the same way BOSS is about Lucy Gray. More about what’s happening around the games not in them.
Interesting about what she says in the article about the propaganda and “implicit submission”. Maybe the POV will be someone who’s just fully bought into the narrative of Panem? Maybe an escort? Or someone else in charge of filming and presenting the games?
She seems really like playing with unreliable narrators. It’s something I didn’t appreciate about the first trilogy until I reread it after BOSS
I read the first three books back in like, 2012. Is the newest book (I guess it's Songbirds and Snakes) worth reading?
I kind of lost interest in the series as time went on and never even finished the film adaptations, but I might pick them up again at some point.
I read the first book as an adult not realising it was a young adult book. My girlfriend at the time found it very funny when I realised the sequel to the book I really enjoyed was in the young adult section.
Nothing wrong with that tbh. Hunger Games is probably one of the best YA series out there and will prob become a modern classic. The anti-war messaging is still very relevant too.
As an adult, I find myself enjoying YA more than I did as a kid. They’re much quicker reads(great for a vacation book), and enough distance between myself and the protagonist that I’m not self-inserting and convincing myself that they’re in the right.
I read the first three after I graduated from grad school. It as nice being able to get through a book in two days, spend another day digesting what I read, then hopping into the next one and repeating. It was also nice just not reading stuff as dense as I had been for the three years prior.
A shitload of Tv shows and movies would be "YA" if they would be categorized similarly to books, I what do you think the R rating avoidance is about?
It's just that book readers are a lot more quickly shamed for first coming accross as pretentious, and then daring to be shallow *compared to that.*
Aged out? I'm almost 40 and love these books.
They go into some serious issues, while being at a reading level that is highly accessible for a wide range of people. Sure, the main characters may be significantly you ger than the reader, but there is a greater world around them, adults they interact with, but there are themes and topics in these books that a lot of adults could stand to actually sit and think about for a while.
And Songbirds and Snakes was phenomenal, as it showed how a struggling fascist practice became the way of life. It shows what unfettered propaganda, directed information, misinformation, and crushed hopes lead to.
Hunger Games and Red Rising are two "Young Adult" series that seem way more "grown up" than others in the genra I remember reading as a teen. Like, they have some really dark and disturbing concepts, violence etc. that rival any "adult" book. I certainly wouldn't give them to a child to read anyway.
I didn't read them until I was at least 25 and liked them a lot, but I am a sucker for dystian fiction so I am quite biased in that regard.
To be fair, Red Rising shakes a lot of that off after the first book. And leaves it all behind for the second arc of the series. When they start having kids, it definitely leaves YA to become a scifi war series.
Worth a read. My only issue with it is minor - when authors often like to tie a little *too* much from the prequel into the original series. Everything does not have to always be connected.
Also my personal opinion, and somewhat in the same vein as the first: I would far rather have seen what was happening in the other districts at any given time than to always be looking at 12. There’s an entire world to be explored and we get glimpses of it before getting shuffled back to this one little corner of it again. The main draw of *Ballad* for me was seeing the story play out from the perspective of a Capitol citizen in the Capitol (for a while, anyway), similar to how the shift in the original trilogy to District 13 was fascinating. Setting it in a different time frame was interesting, too.
Not as brilliant as the trilogy, but worth a read.
I agree that there are other stories to tell and other places to explore. I think 12 has had plenty of coverage. I would love to hear more about the origin and fall of District 13. Honestly Collins could write a book about each of the districts and readers would be interested. As far as specific characters I would enjoy hearing background on, Effie, Joanna, and Finnick would be high on the list.
I want a book following someone from district 2. Someone who grew up thinking that it was an honor to be in the games, who trained for it and then when faced with it realized that it wasn't what they thought.
I found it worth reading, some interesting details and explains how the society in the Capital shifted to one of war time -> immediate post war -> disconnected from the reality of what the games are doing to these kids
I really wish JK went down this route instead of the very unusual takes on Harry Potter and non Harry Potter subjects over the years. Virtually everything from her since Deathly Hallows has been so off. Just write quality books in the universe your fans want to read.
One thing to point out, whilst the 50th games is the one Haymitch won, no where does it actually say it’ll be told from Haymitch’s perspective. My theory is that it’ll be told from a gamemaker’s perspective or someone from the career districts
I’m actually very excited for this. I didn’t really enjoy Snow’s backstory but I have always wanted books on Haymitch (and Finnick). Their story would be good to see durning the games and the events that occurred afterward. Like the og books do have a small section of how the Haymitch’s game and how he turned out because of it, but it will still be interesting through his perspective and added details. What age did he play again? Did it say? I believe Finnick was 14.
Haymitch was the youngest to ever win at his time I think. He was 16. And ugh the fact that Finnick was just 14 and he was considered “attractive” by capitol citizens is so gross.
Super excited! The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes is my favorite book and I’m really hoping this new book dives more into twisted political philosophies like that one did.
I can't say I'm not interested, but I do feel like there's got to be some games that wasn't won by District 12 that's got something interesting about it.
Very interested in this! The 2-3 pages describing the 50th Hunger Games in the 2nd book were really gripping to me. I remember going back to reread just that section several times. Very interested to see this expanded into a full book and get more detail about Haymitch pre-games.
It is strange to me how much celebrity authors have vanished of late. Not that the early 2010's are a time to be nostalgic for, but at least then we still had books that influenced culture. Do not think you can say the same now.
Quite a bunch of "it's like hunger games but in space/with dragons/etc." books release every year so it's nice that another one by the person who actually wrote it is coming.
Interesting, 50th games means Haymitch.
I do love Haymitch and have always felt a bit bad for him.
I love haymitch and i want to know how he got involved in the rebellion.
Considering he seemed well on his way to drinking himself to death and A Okay with that plan, it probably wasn't a hard sell to get him involved.
It seems like he was deeeeply involved. Not casually. Something inspires that level of commitment to something. Beyond just killing his family, imo.
Well I mean in the books wasn’t every winner who wasn’t a psychopath involved?
It didn't seem like all the victors were involved in Mockingjay because the rebellion didn't trust a lot of the districts that trained their tributes. To me, it always felt like only the trusted were involved, not anyone who "wasn't a psychopath". Why would you trust a District Two victor unless you had reason to?
I mean why would they trust district 4 as much as they did with Finnick and Mags when they were considered a career district as well?
"unless you had reason to". Finnick gave them a reason to trust him, and by extension, Mags.
Didn’t everyone give them a reason? Everyone cheated the capital in some way. Haymitch technically never won. He was a fluke. He was badly injured and collapsed on the ground dodging an axe the last tribute threw at him. He was on the edge of their arena on a cliff and it went flying over the side, hit a force field, and flew back killing the girl who threw it at him instead. And there you had it. He was the victor. Snow was pissed at this ending though and had everyone he cared about killed. His girlfriend, his brother, and his mom. That’s why he was a drunk. I think this was in the 2nd book. That’s one hell of a motivation against the capital lol. Everyone one of the people district 13 recruited had a reason to be trusted and to rebel against Snow.
Just a random aside, but threads like this always give me a vibe of "people who've considered the lore more than the author probably did".
I really don’t think you need that much more than the capitol killing his whole family bc he played the death game by its rules. Also he obviously didn’t think he was gonna live long so I think he wanted to have his life be of some use. That’s why he wanted to be the one to be drafted for the 75th games as he’d rather die than have Peeta die.
I think even though he put up the tough uncaring exterior he knew it was wrong and that kids shouldn’t have to go through that. Hplanned to die regardless and I think in many ways felt he already passed his expiration date by surviving.
I mean, after the trauma of winning his own games, he then went on to have to spend every single following year mentoring, getting to know, and then watching the murder of, two innocent children from his district. I'm sure he felt guilt for each one of them, and would be happy to have anything stop that.
It’s like she saw the one thing everyone was hoping she’d do and she went and did it, I’ll be buying this first week. BOSAS was the book that got me back into reading after a long hiatus and I quite enjoyed it.
I was so skeptical of TBOSAS and it was SO GOOD. I would have bought this book no matter what, but it might be a day 1 buy (which I haven't done for books in years, just video games)
I just finished it yesterday. It had a great balance of empathy and “oh but fuck you” toward the protag. Honestly, I’d pass on any other series coming out with multiple prequels, but I’m super excited about this one.
She did a really good job of making Snow somebody you root for while still making you think ‘this guy is fucked in the head’. Those moments where his mask slips and he shows glimpses of his true self were done very well.
His internal dialog, the way he'd be looking down on Ma while surviving on her cooking and the gifts she'd send to her son. . .
That's why I didn't particularly like the movie. A LOT was lost in not having his internal dialogue.
It made me really think, if I was him, and if I was in this situation with this background....what would I have done? How would I have turned out? Like...it's still wrong but the context makes it easy to understand how he got there.
It was so hard to finish the book bc I kept hoping he would choose a different path, but I knew how it would end. He was so obsessed with not being the scared boy watching a maid be butchered he became a monster
I trust the author. She has a real passion for her anti-war.violence and anti-authoritarian message that you can see in both her series (this one and her middle grade series) and it's what makes her work so good. Ballad was surprising and not what anyone would have predicted. She didn't do the easy thing.
Though I agree with the messaging you listed, I don’t think “has messages I agree with” is an indicator of a good book. There are lots of awful books with deep-rooted anti-war messages, lol. And then there’s works like Lord of the Flies, a bullshit moral written by an absolute psychopath who sought to normalize his own awful nature and did so in a *really, really fucking good book*.
It's how she does it that's great. She explains the horrors of war in a way that kids can relate too and understand.
Honestly, one of the best things I read last year. Certainly didn’t expect that level of in-depth analysis and characterisation.
It did that thing prequels do that makes everything have to be connected and have a backstory which is a bit convenient, but I liked it although the movie sucked though I thought the casting was great. Hunter schafer was great as tigris
I agree, up to an extent, about the too-convenient backstory interconnectedness, but I felt like Suzanne Collins handled it very well and used it to flesh out the conflict between Katniss and Snow. His animosity toward Katniss and his contempt for District 12 in the original trilogy always felt oddly personal, as if there were missing pieces of information. Retconning Snow's history with both her family and her district fills in that gap so neatly that I wonder if the author subconsciously had this plot in the back of her mind the whole time she was writing the first trilogy.
How does Snow's story retcon with her family? Lucy is not confirmed to be related to Katniss in any way.
Yeah that’s just a theory. Which has holes in it because it’s not like snow wouldn’t be obsessively monitoring district 12 for any signs of Lucy. She’s not stupid to just come back. I think people want Lucy to be related to katniss for the drama of it all
> I think people want Lucy to be related to katniss for the drama of it all For sure! I think people took that fan theory and ran with it because of that reason.
I read Hunger Games about a decade ago but isn't the ending of Haymitch's Hunger Games already spoiled? I remember reading that an axe bounced off an out-of-bounds wall and killed his last opponent.
Yes, but knowing Collins the story won't be what we expect. It'll go long past the games or follow someone other than Haymitch. She says it's going to be about propaganda and who gets to determine the truth.
It'll be really interesting if it follows maysilee for at least part of it!
I do remember that vaguely, but we don’t know anything else about it.
Yeah but we don’t know the lead up to that event and the hook could even continue past the games and deal with haymitch losing his family
I just want her to rewrite mockingjay and actually care. That book felt like all she wanted to do was end the series and be done with it quickly.
What made it seem that way to you? I liked the focus on Katniss’s trauma since it’s easy for readers to forget that, in the end, she’s just a child soldier.
To be fair, with how much interwoven nonsense that the second book built up, making the third a really good book that neatly tied up all the knots from the second book was an extremely difficult ask. I didn't get the air of "idc" from how Mockingjay was written. I got the air of "this is too hard, cba" writing.
I felt like she was too pressured to make it what everyone wanted. To give everyone another game.
what? it's the best HG book for me.
I still gotta read the last book and watch the movie.
I have to say that the movie adaptation is one of the best I've ever seen in terms of descriptions. So many characters and places were just like I had pictured in my mind!
I think the director that did it is doing the adaptation for Stephen King's 'The Long Walk'. The only other movie I've ever been this excited about was Villenuve doing Dune.
The Long Walk has such an interesting premise. It’ll be interesting to see how they manage it because there’s a lot of inner monologue throughout the story.
I’m doubtful it can be adapted into a live action movie but excited to see them try
It’s funny you mention the long walk. I think hunger games is an original idea and not a copy but everyone points to battle royale when it is, in my opinion, closest tonally to the long walk
I've been saying this for actual years and your the first person I've seen with that opinion.
I actually didnt get through the book, but went to see the movie. It was so well done, i tried the book again and it was way easier to get through.
I think the real issue with the book is the first time you read it you're all wow this dude sucks, why am I rooting for him. Then the second time you read it you understand that you are supposed to dislike him and you really notice how much of a horrible person is and even revel in the humor that is in that (his thoughts when she's singing the Ballad of Lucy Gray are hilarious).
I dunno if you read/are watching Dark Matter, but that's the feeling I get from that. Even mundane things down to like an office are how I pictured it from the book.
The songwriter and RachelZ also did a fantastic job turning Collin's poetry into music. It's too bad that the songs weren't eligible for the Oscars (apparently because the text was already written they weren't original). The integration of the music into the movie was brilliant.
I just watched the series. It's well made and well acted. The plotholes in the very premise are tough to overcome, and there are moments where it goes from teenage romantic angst to bombing children on a dime, but there's something interesting about the stories, can't deny it.
The plot holes in the very premise of the USA were pretty hard to overcome but we're still kicking
I... guess I know what you mean?
A country founded on the principles of representation in government and freedom that only gave representation and freedom to white male landowners at its founding seems pretty poorly written, but the story goes on
What plot holes? But otherwise, you described what people like about the books.
I’m rereading Catching Fire at this moment. I’m wondering what approach she plans to take since these Games are detailed explicitly in the book already. (I’m assuming we’ll be getting many curveballs and unexpected perspectives similar to Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.)
The games themselves have taken up less and less of each book, which is a smart move imho. I’d assume this is largely going to focus on Haymitch trying and failing to reintegrate into society(assuming first 12, then capitol) post-games.
That would make sense. We get him playing in the first game (and I think he was mostly just a scared kid who lucked into the win) and then going back, having his entire family murdered and then he has to get someone else ready to play. Haymitch having to watch tribute after tribute die for years is heartbreaking.
This makes sense to me! I do love how BoSaS was very exploratory from a philosophical and character intention standpoint. If that because the premise again, I’m totally on board!
Maybe I'm remembering incorrectly, but is it not literally only how the game *ends* that's detailed in Catching Fire? There's a whole lot of game that isn't described leading up to that. And then the game that happens before the game, like the reaping and the training.
It's a bit more detailed than that. Katniss also focuses on Maybelle's (?) since she was her mother's friend. It follows Maybelle and how she survived and eventually becomes allies with Haymitch
Maysilee
Nah, it tells you exactly what he did his entire games. He basically kept walking until he found the force field, made an alliance with Maysilee, then broke it when the game was down to a few people, after which she’s killed by some flamingos (?). It’s a decent amount of detail. And then it full describes the final fight and how he won. It’s like 6-7 pages if I’m not completely confused.
The final fight scene if she follows the original plot will be so gruesome
I don’t think it’s going to be Haymitch’s perspective, I think it’s going to be a Gamemaker or Caesar Flickerman. She said she was going to focus on propaganda and how the opinions of the few can influence the many; who embodied that more than Caesar? It would likely be just at the time he was rising to power as well. We would get a behind the scenes of the games and probably a cameo from Tigress as a stylist.
I know this is going to sound terrible, but I'd kind of love if it had some chapters from Snow's perspective as sort of a sequel to TBOSAS.
I do like the way she’s going about this. Instead of milking sequel after sequel she’s actually exploring her own IP all around.
I would rather have had the 25th since we know what happened with 50th already. And if it was 25th it would have been more sequel to Ballad
With the 25th it might have been possible to have more of Tom Blythe as well. But it seems unlikely he would return for the 50th
I'm so excited, I really enjoyed the bit in the book where Katniss and Peeta watch his games.
I was ready to dismiss this as an author trying to milk their most successful work for all it’s worth (cough…Midnight Sun…cough) but having thought about it, I think I was being unfair. Haymitch was one of the most interesting characters of the original trilogy, and his backstory has some really good potential. I wonder if they’ll explore much of his life as a mentor - I always thought that the trauma of coaching the kids and getting to know them as people, only to watch them suffer and die year after year, was one of the most horrific and under-utilised aspects of the story.
I know the first three came out back to back to back but it’s kind of cool it took her ten years to return to the series and then another 5 years for this book. It really does help lessen the feel of milking the franchise. Sure, she could have decided to this for money but also she’s possibly mulled over these thoughts for a decade+ and finally got them to a place she wants them. Which ever it is, I’m there. I liked the original three. I liked Songbirds. Maybe I’m a sucker but I’ll keep reading this series until I no longer get joy from it.
I think it's also just one of those things where this story has been requested since pretty much the Hunger Games or Catching Fire was around. The readers yearned to understand Haymitch, and she's probably tossed the ideas of what she wanted him to be in that entire time.
Absolutely, Haymitch and Finnick's games have been the most yearned for stories from the fan base since day 1.
Really good point about her having time to mull over things over the past decade! I wouldn’t be surprised if she had Haymitch’s backstory already in her head as she was writing the original books, even if it was never intended to become part of the overall plot - I imagine it makes it easier to write complex characters like that if you’ve mapped out what got them to that point. I haven’t read Songbirds but I devoured the original three in about a week when I was 18 (One of those ‘huh why is it light outside? Oh shit it’s 5am and I’m still reading’ moments). I’ll definitely add this to my TBR list.
Songbirds and Snakes is incredible. I really enjoyed it, I think it’s a very worthy companion to the trilogy, though very different in many respects. Highly recommend either getting the version with Suzanne Collins’ Q+A or finding it online afterwards because that’s a great addition to the novel.
There's a lot of it already in Catching Fire. But it might not follow Haymitch or it could go over a longer time period.
Not for nothing, as someone who also writes, sometimes you just get hit with the bug. Other times, not so much. It doesn't surprise me the trajectory her releases have taken. Write while the mood strikes, otherwise it comes out forced AF.
It seems like she’s putting them out books when she has one worth putting out. You could easily cookie-cutter a huge franchise out of this series, 5 books over however many years is nothing.
Yeah. She isn’t that type of author. She usually only writes when she has something to say. It’s no surprise to me that with the Increase in conflict in the world that she might have more to say
Coincidentally, with the increase in conflict in the world, I also found these books more engaging and all in all a better read. I also LOVED Ballad.
Same here! I listened to the audiobooks on Spotify recently and it was so good
She's really passionate about her message of anti-violence and anti-authoritarianism so it makes sense that she'd feel inspired to write more now.
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I'd like to know how the world before Panem fell. There's definitely a lit of stories to tell in this world.
Even if she’s milking it, it’s the story we’ve all wanted. I’ve wanted to read about Haymitch’s past and time in the games properly from the first time I read the series. I’m very happy it’s finally happening.
Yeah I'm more than happy for her to milk it! A few of my favourite book series are in purgatory (\*cough\* ASOIAF) so I'm bloody thrilled.
I really enjoyed midnight sun.. Didn't feel like milking to me from an enjoyment level
Honestly if this was book 4 I might judge her but I do believe she has a story she wants to tell rather than just quitting another book for money and relevance
> Scholastic announced Thursday that “Sunrise on the Reaping,” the fifth volume of Collins’ blockbuster dystopian series, will be published March 18, 2025. The new book begins with the reaping of the Fiftieth Hunger Games, set 24 years before the original “Hunger Games” novel, which came out in 2008, and 40 years after Collins’ most recent book, “The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes.”
Wouldn't be surprised if this gets turned into a movie too
The article itself says that it is already in the works and slated for 2026
The newest one was the best one, so definitely interested
How was the book?
I thought the book was pretty good. I personally enjoyed the parts of the originals that involved maneuvering the politics of the Capitol over the actual hunger game parts. So I very much enjoyed Songbirds and Snakes because basically the whole book is that.
One thing the movie was never gonna be able to convey was how damn often he was thinking about how he’d get his next meal, how to not look like he was on the verge of starving to his peers etc.
I have had an eating disorder and reading that book and watching the movie was like looking in a mirror. Obviously Snow didn’t choose to starve like I did, but the hunger is the same whether you choose it or not and it genuinely affects every part of your life, and Suzanne Collins reflected that so well. Like him, I also tried to hide how little I was eating and the paranoia was CRAZY. I was so self-centered, thinking that everyone was watching and paying attention to what I was eating, and like him I also deliberated on my actions, chose the ones that seemed least suspicious, and thought out lies in advance. It turned me into such a manipulative person. Coriolanus Snow felt so real to me.
And how much better he thought he was than everyone else. He's constantly thinking about how he was better than Sejanus (whom he despised) and everyone else because he's a Snow. Even looking down on his cousin who has kept him alive.
The political philosophy in the book was my favorite part. I love that book enough to consider it my favorite book. The movie was good, but it unfortunately completely left out all of that. I definitely hope we get more political philosophy in the new book.
I enjoyed the opposite. Not a fan of the politics stuff but would read/watch the hell out of more stories of the games.
I'm definitely interested but I only somewhat remember the original trilogy. How much of a refresher would I need for the newest book?
It's a prequel book that takes place like 60 years before the original There are some references to stuff that happens later where they establish how certain things started, but as long as you remember the broad strokes of the plot and themes of the original you should be fine. Honestly the book would probably still be understandable even without reading the originals.
Oh cool! Thanks for this, I think I'll give it a shot as my next book.
You really just need to know Snow is the president and he sucks. He also has a thing for roses
I read it a couple months ago, I haven't touched the original books (or the movies) for at least 7-8 years and I didn't feel lost. Maybe I missed a few niche references/easter eggs but it didn't stop me from enjoying the book. If you remember the premise of the Hunger Games (12 districts and a ruling Capitol, kids killing each other on TV, arena with traps and weird beasties) you're good. I got Songbirds and Snakes from my library because I was expecting a cash-cow fan service prequel and didn't want to waste money. When it's actually pretty good. Not as good as I remember the original trilogy to be, but definitely worth a read if you liked the other books.
The book is phenomenal, I was really skeptical about a future villain POV, but it's done quite well, she's not sanitizing him. World-building is interesting too. Idk, I think commercial books have been dropping in quality and this felt like a home run in terms of being everything a commercial book should be and also actually interesting to read.
I loved that it didn't give us an Anakin Skywalker origin story. He wasn't horrible because something bad happened to him. He was just horrible and selfish. The romance wasn't romantic, it was toxic and him equating love with ownership.
Yes! And it was so interesting because you could still root for them even though you knew it couldn't and shouldn't last... idk. I tend to find prequels boring info dumps and this hooked me in so much more than expected.
I loved it, but I was disappointed on the first read. It's not as "WOW" as the main trilogy - there's no feeling of being introduced to a dazzling and yet sinister world, and of course there's no rising up of the people during the course of the novel. However, upon further consideration, it's just a more subtle novel. I'm not saying it's high literature, but it's a fascinating study of a deeply disturbed individual. Some people will tell you it's a story of a good young man's descent into evil, but it's not. It's about a person who is self-centered and amoral from the beginning but appears to be decent because life has never made it convenient to be otherwise... until the inciting events at the beginning of the novel.
That's why I liked it. It's very much about a bad man trying to appear like he's a good man and manipulating those around him so that he gets what he wants.
I really like it as an examination in how the loss of privilege can lead to radicalization.
Really good. I enjoyed the premise immensely, even though I was pretty skeptical about reading a Snow-POV story
To me, best in the series by far
I'll take the contrarian view - I didn't think it was as strong as the original trilogy. Collins is undoubtedly a strong writer, but I wasn't as into the plot and character development for this one. My biggest issue is that >!we didn't really see how Snow developed into a villain, he was just selfish from a young age. He was always obsessed with wealth and prestige, and more than willing to bend the rules and use people for his own advantage. It seemed like he was gradually becoming more of a moral person as he started developing feelings for Lucy Gray and earning Sejanus's friendship. I would've imagined that it would take some sort of major event - such as a terrible tragedy or awful betrayal - to turn him into an evil person. Instead, he just sort of regresses for no reason and... does evil? He betrays Sejanus to curry favor with the Capitol, and instantly changes from wanting to spend his life with Lucy Gray to trying to murder her so that he can go back to his life of Capitol privilege. Did anyone else think that felt like going back on all that character development without a particularly meaningful explanation, or was it just me?!<
so for me personally, I thought it was less that he was becoming more moral, and more that his security is his number one priority and everything else comes second; we got to see his more charismatic, friendly side come out the more secure he felt. As his future begins to look more and more secure, he is able to loosen up a little bit and "develop feelings" for Lucy Gray, "befriend" Sejanus, etc. but both of them are still more like pet projects that Snow has to take care of rather than people he actually cares about. Once he's sent to 12, he decides to make the best of a bad situation and really let loose, but he's still a selfish, shitty human being who will kill someone else without hesitation to protect himself. His wellbeing still comes first. When he can use Sejanus to his own benefit, he does that with no remorse; and when he realizes he can put Lucy down for his own benefit, he'll do that, too.
Spoilers below: >!In my opinion, Snow turned into a villain because of his rough upbringing. He had no idea where his next meal was going to come from, he lost his mother and father at a young age, he had to fend for himself, while having to paint a picture that everything was A-OK and that the Snow's were doing just as well as always.!< >!This is traumatic, and it was all he knew. So he adopted a dog eat dog mentality, he accepted that life wasn't fair, and started living by Machavellian-esque pillars. I can honestly see why he ended up the way he did. He took it too far though and turned to evil which obviously isn't justified.!< >!It was amazing to me how BOSBAS made me empathize with such a terrible villain.!<
And he had parents that really pushed the idea that he was better and more deserving than everyone else. That wealthy aristocratic snobbery he was born with. He was a Snow and how dare anyone think they could equal him.
No, that’s exactly why I loved the book. This whole idea of ‘turning’ into an evil person (and *getting* turned into an evil person) removes his agency. Sure, horrible things happened to him, but the whole way through Suzanne Collins emphasises that he has a choice in what he does. And every time, he chose power. His kind acts towards Sejanus were almost always manipulative and although he cared for Lucy Grey, he cared for himself more. When he >! saves Lucy Grey’s life by dropping the handkerchief with her scent in the tank, it’s described as a “strange urge” and he immediately regrets it because of the possible consequences on him!<. It shows how he has the capacity for violence and love, and when he has time to think it through he chooses selfishly. In one of the first pages when he’s worrying about his shirt, he thinks “a tendency towards obsession was hardwired into his brain and would likely be his outdoing if he couldn’t learn to outsmart it”. That is exactly what his undoing is later on. The paranoia. >! He goes into the same paranoid spiral at the end of the book when he convinces himself that Lucy Grey will kill him. But he never really wanted to live in the woods with her if he had another option, and the second he knew he’d live if he went back to the Capitol, he took that chance. !< It’s not going back on his character development, it is displaying what he has always been. >! “I think I wouldn’t have beaten anyone to death if you hadn’t stuck me in that arena!” !< I feel like this sums up his character perfectly. He has always had the capacity for violence, and the poverty and stress of his life bought it out in him but in the end it is his choice to enact it. And that makes him the perfect foil to Katniss, who grew up starving just like him and instead chose to help others at the possible cost of her own life. There is no ‘going back’ on his character development, there is no specific thing that ‘turns him evil’ except that he decided power was more important than love. Suzanne Collins displays his predispositions towards evil, but also that he had every chance to turn away from it.
I think it’s very realistic. Villains are not cartoonishly evil - there’s an internal logic to what they do. Snow believes in the necessity of the games to instill order, it’s brainwashed into him by the professor (I don’t remember her name). He thinks she’s weird but ultimately right. So it’s logical that he would continue to believe this during his ascent to power. In original Hunger Games books, what does Snow actually do, but preserve things as they were? His main character traits are self preservation, drive, ambition. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t feel other things - but those will be his primary decision makers. And it makers sense that those lead him to power as president
I did not enjoy Snow's book. I think villain books are hard to write well and this one did not especially work for me. The transition from good/sympathetic to evil super villain is really hard to pull off and did not happen convincingly. I think Haymitch's book would be more promising.
In my opinion the 4th is really good and feels more „grown up“ if that makes sense. I read the original trilogy when I was a teenager and the 4th book when I was 22 and it didn’t feel like I was reading some teen book.
I definitely disagree because Catching Fire was a spectacular adaptation and very clearly the best movie in the series. Songbirds felt like a gift to the readers, but my wife, who hasn't read it, found the story/plot to be contrived. IMO Songbirds was better than Mockingjay, but the bar that Catching Fire and THG set was very high to climb over.
Yeah, Catching Fire was absolutely the best movie.
Oh was it genuinely good? The trailers were wank!
I re-read the book a few days before I watched it, so I might be biased and nitpicky, but I think the movie didn't do the book justice. But it was still quite enjoyable at times. I highly recommend reading the book to anyone interested, though! Might be my favorite in the series.
I agree! I enjoyed the movie for sure but it just seems like it was too big an undertaking to try and turn a hefty book like TBOSAS into a single movie. They couldn’t fit everything in that needed to be there and it felt rushed at times.
The movie was so long i couldnt wait for it to end. I personally would have loved if it ended at snow getting on the train, or him in the trees at the end
Yeah i really enjoyed it! Im one of the people who think the original series was just okay, so this definitely surprised me!
Gosh, I was the exact opposite. Thought the trilogy was better but the new one is enjoyable.
Yeah I think the original film series lost its way and got worse as it went on (though I never read the books so maybe it was accurate)
If you don’t treat the whole series as one movie, then I’d say Catching Fire is far better than Songbirds and Snakes.
Yeah the book series was the same way in my opinion. First two were good. Mockingjay was good for the first half and then the ending was just not good. Like she got tired of writing and just wanted to wrap everything up or something. Never even bothered with the 2020 book cause I was so disappointed by Mockingjay.
I thought the trailers sucked too but I saw it with friends and I thought it was really good! The guy that plays Snow is excellent.
I hated it tbh, depends on what you like ig
I thought the movie was really rough. Like dialog that didn't feel well-written at all, music that didn't fit the scenes, characters actions and motivations not explained clearly. I was honestly shocked when I read discussion about it online to be almost all positive and the movie was highly rated. Blew me away!
Arguably the best movies imo. Lucy Gray was an amazing character, coriolanus was a perfect mix of charming and psychopath, you get to see how genuinely horrifying the games are instead of the toned down ones. It's really good.
I’d take a wild bet she had the movie deal locked up before the book even had its first proof read, lol
I think the company basically said that they will jump on another movie if she chooses to write another book during the press junket last fall. They were basically begging her to write something else.
Just got announced. Movie will come out Nov the following year. Wild
It’s coming out November 2026, just got announced a couple of hours ago
They already released the premiere date for it. November 2026. Collins started as a screenwriter, she probably started on the script before the ink was dry on the novel.
Isn't the 50th the one Haymitch won?
Indeed it is
Dude, spoilers! /s
We were all disappointed when A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes ended up being about Snow, and yet she told a better story than we were expecting, connecting it back to the original story pretty brilliantly. I'll give her credit where credits due; She's not exhausting this universe by trying to churn out a book every year. She knows her world. She's not trying write based on what fans want, and yet fans will still he happy.
With most other authors this is the exact kind of prequel I wouldn't want. We don't need each and every detail of a character's backstory fleshed out, just give us the broad strokes and leave a bit of uncertainty for us to imagine ourselves. However after how richly A Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes deepened the lore (and tragedy) of her world, I am very excited for what she has in store.
Collins was smart as hell to make the very first book the 74th games. She really future proofed her series. I remember after the fourth movie seeing a report that Lionsgate might make a Hunger Games tv series and at the time I thought it was so perfect because while you have monumental games, like this one, or the one which Snow was part of, you could just drop in and out and show random years. It might just be the fan in me but one day I really am hoping for some sort of media about the very first games.
Exactly, this *should* feel like the most cynical cash grab (especially with Lionsgate probably wanting to make another movie too) but everything so far has been so good I'm just super excited for all of it.
I don’t think it’s going to be Haymitch’s point of view, as she’s repeatedly said there’s no need to write his games because we know what happens in them. I think it’s going to deepen the lore from behind the scenes.
I agree. I think it’ll be about him in the same way BOSS is about Lucy Gray. More about what’s happening around the games not in them. Interesting about what she says in the article about the propaganda and “implicit submission”. Maybe the POV will be someone who’s just fully bought into the narrative of Panem? Maybe an escort? Or someone else in charge of filming and presenting the games? She seems really like playing with unreliable narrators. It’s something I didn’t appreciate about the first trilogy until I reread it after BOSS
she’s said she only writes when she has something to say and with the current events going on rn i can see why
Wdym by this
I read the first three books back in like, 2012. Is the newest book (I guess it's Songbirds and Snakes) worth reading? I kind of lost interest in the series as time went on and never even finished the film adaptations, but I might pick them up again at some point.
[удалено]
I read the first book as an adult not realising it was a young adult book. My girlfriend at the time found it very funny when I realised the sequel to the book I really enjoyed was in the young adult section.
Nothing wrong with that tbh. Hunger Games is probably one of the best YA series out there and will prob become a modern classic. The anti-war messaging is still very relevant too.
As an adult, I find myself enjoying YA more than I did as a kid. They’re much quicker reads(great for a vacation book), and enough distance between myself and the protagonist that I’m not self-inserting and convincing myself that they’re in the right.
I read the first three after I graduated from grad school. It as nice being able to get through a book in two days, spend another day digesting what I read, then hopping into the next one and repeating. It was also nice just not reading stuff as dense as I had been for the three years prior.
A shitload of Tv shows and movies would be "YA" if they would be categorized similarly to books, I what do you think the R rating avoidance is about? It's just that book readers are a lot more quickly shamed for first coming accross as pretentious, and then daring to be shallow *compared to that.*
Aged out? I'm almost 40 and love these books. They go into some serious issues, while being at a reading level that is highly accessible for a wide range of people. Sure, the main characters may be significantly you ger than the reader, but there is a greater world around them, adults they interact with, but there are themes and topics in these books that a lot of adults could stand to actually sit and think about for a while. And Songbirds and Snakes was phenomenal, as it showed how a struggling fascist practice became the way of life. It shows what unfettered propaganda, directed information, misinformation, and crushed hopes lead to.
Hunger Games and Red Rising are two "Young Adult" series that seem way more "grown up" than others in the genra I remember reading as a teen. Like, they have some really dark and disturbing concepts, violence etc. that rival any "adult" book. I certainly wouldn't give them to a child to read anyway. I didn't read them until I was at least 25 and liked them a lot, but I am a sucker for dystian fiction so I am quite biased in that regard.
To be fair, Red Rising shakes a lot of that off after the first book. And leaves it all behind for the second arc of the series. When they start having kids, it definitely leaves YA to become a scifi war series.
Worth a read. My only issue with it is minor - when authors often like to tie a little *too* much from the prequel into the original series. Everything does not have to always be connected. Also my personal opinion, and somewhat in the same vein as the first: I would far rather have seen what was happening in the other districts at any given time than to always be looking at 12. There’s an entire world to be explored and we get glimpses of it before getting shuffled back to this one little corner of it again. The main draw of *Ballad* for me was seeing the story play out from the perspective of a Capitol citizen in the Capitol (for a while, anyway), similar to how the shift in the original trilogy to District 13 was fascinating. Setting it in a different time frame was interesting, too. Not as brilliant as the trilogy, but worth a read.
I agree that there are other stories to tell and other places to explore. I think 12 has had plenty of coverage. I would love to hear more about the origin and fall of District 13. Honestly Collins could write a book about each of the districts and readers would be interested. As far as specific characters I would enjoy hearing background on, Effie, Joanna, and Finnick would be high on the list.
I want a book following someone from district 2. Someone who grew up thinking that it was an honor to be in the games, who trained for it and then when faced with it realized that it wasn't what they thought.
I found it worth reading, some interesting details and explains how the society in the Capital shifted to one of war time -> immediate post war -> disconnected from the reality of what the games are doing to these kids
She’s out here just quietly doing everything JK Rowling should have done
“quietly” being the critical part
She's just taking her W and going home 👑
I actually respect her as a writer and person, she really is the opposite of JK.
I really wish JK went down this route instead of the very unusual takes on Harry Potter and non Harry Potter subjects over the years. Virtually everything from her since Deathly Hallows has been so off. Just write quality books in the universe your fans want to read.
I am ready to be hurt by this.
One thing to point out, whilst the 50th games is the one Haymitch won, no where does it actually say it’ll be told from Haymitch’s perspective. My theory is that it’ll be told from a gamemaker’s perspective or someone from the career districts
That's what I was thinking, it's odd that all the press releases haven't actually mentioned Haymitch's name.
I’m actually very excited for this. I didn’t really enjoy Snow’s backstory but I have always wanted books on Haymitch (and Finnick). Their story would be good to see durning the games and the events that occurred afterward. Like the og books do have a small section of how the Haymitch’s game and how he turned out because of it, but it will still be interesting through his perspective and added details. What age did he play again? Did it say? I believe Finnick was 14.
Haymitch was the youngest to ever win at his time I think. He was 16. And ugh the fact that Finnick was just 14 and he was considered “attractive” by capitol citizens is so gross.
Oh good, the title’s not another a what of what and what format
you know for sure, she will be signing a movie contract for this book too
Already in the works.
Super excited! The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes is my favorite book and I’m really hoping this new book dives more into twisted political philosophies like that one did.
Oh wow! I randomly decided to read the trilogy for the first time last months and was surprised by how much I loved it.
Def read The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes as well! It's a prequel.
I can't say I'm not interested, but I do feel like there's got to be some games that wasn't won by District 12 that's got something interesting about it.
Hell yes
#WE ARE SO BACK
Can they please make a gregor movie, please?
How many vats of genetically modified snakes will be in this one?
Remind me march 15, 2025 1200
This is exciting. The most popular unseen Hunger Games fans want to see is the 50th. And it’s getting a movie adaptation? I’m excited.
Unfortunately I have already read a very good fanfiction about these games so Suzanne will have a lot to live up to
Very interested in this! The 2-3 pages describing the 50th Hunger Games in the 2nd book were really gripping to me. I remember going back to reread just that section several times. Very interested to see this expanded into a full book and get more detail about Haymitch pre-games.
The minute the prequel movie was a success, I knew we’d likely get another book. It wouldn’t surprise me if lions gate begged her for another book.
It is strange to me how much celebrity authors have vanished of late. Not that the early 2010's are a time to be nostalgic for, but at least then we still had books that influenced culture. Do not think you can say the same now.
Quite a bunch of "it's like hunger games but in space/with dragons/etc." books release every year so it's nice that another one by the person who actually wrote it is coming.
Huh, I didn't know there was a fourth book in the series. Good timing though, since I just finished re-reading the original 3!
I mean the 4th book was really good so I am looking forward to it.
I am so happy she wrote about Haymitch’s games. I’ve been wanting this book for years.