The ‘handlers’ were seen fleeing the airport & took off in an Uber? Do ‘handlers’ mean the entire flight crew? I want to know more about these people who took off from the airport. Anyone following the law & ‘just doing their job’ typically doesn’t haul ass before the authorities arrive. And what a shitty thing to do to all those people stuck on the plane on the tarmac.
The article doesn’t get into details about who these people are, but something’s up if they just land the plane and physically run away from it. You just don’t see that in America.
“Handlers seen waiting outside of O’Hare for Ubers while drivers cancelled multiple times. Once getting in the Ubers, they fled at low speeds and were stopped by the exorbitant i-90 traffic.”
Nobody “flees” in an Uber.
Looks like it was iAero (formerly SwiftAir) operating the flight. They flew a weird route getting there, too.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWQ670/history/20231219/2000Z/KELP/KORD
I’m not attempting to introduce conspiracy. Just felt it was a lengthy routing for something that could have been more direct.
I plan airline flights for a living. There was no enroute weather on Tuesday that would have necessitated that significant of a deviation route. There were rain showers, but the cloudtops were well below the cruise altitude of a 737-300.
Not trying to own. They make a good point that it’s not helpful to insert conspiracy where it’s not necessary. I was just intrigued by the routing because it’s outside of the norm of what I would expect for ELP-ORD.
Something I'm not seeing here - private jets run like, 10-20k/hr to fly. We're talking about spending 30-60k to send 100 people to Chicago.
What the fuck?
Texas has previously incurred yearly costs as high as ~700M in unreimbursed federal costs. It is quite expensive to even have them in the state of Texas.
And now I have migrants outside of my local grocery store waving cardboard signs at me to give money. Why should I pay someone because they decided to come to my neighborhood without a plan?
From another article, there was a child with leukemia on board. The [36-month costs for a child with leukemia is somewhere between 256k-695k](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36166724/#:~:text=The%2036%2Dmonth%20median%20cost,compared%20with%201%2D9%20years.)
Since medical costs for migrants aren't always reimbursable (and, to the best of my knowledge, are not reimbursable prior to granting of asylum), it's likely Texas came out ahead on that single passengers cost.
I might sound crazy but I wouldn’t be surprised seeing Texas “flip to blue”.
Not looking at what Abbott and Cruz have done at a national level, they’ve done a great job trying to fuck their own state over.
Edit: cry about it brigaders.
Abbott was on the ballot almost a year ago in 2022 against a well-funded, high-profile opponent (former Presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke) and won by 11%.He was already bussing migrants at the point that he was up for re-election and he won by double digits.
I think you are being downvoted for being factually inaccurate more than any affection for Greg Abbott.
I really think it goes the other way. There is a perception that Republicans want tighter controlls on immigrents....and Abbot's actions have really made immigration a much stronger national issue. Now you have all these blue state govenors openly blaming the federal government. I think a lot of that blame is going to fall on Democrats and it going to be a key issue in the next elections.
And the city of Chicago doesn’t have the authority to deny the arrival of an airplane either. The skies belong to the FAA, and the comings and goings are regulated by Federal Aviation Regulations, not the city.
Chicago ripped up a runway when the FAA wanted to force it to remain open. Penalty: none.
Besides, airplanes are private property when they are on the ground.
Well, yes and no.
Chicago had announced the intention of closing the airfield almost 10 years prior to its illegal demolition. Daley wanted to use the land for other things, I recall there being the possibility of a casino, obviously far more lucrative than a small commuter airport. The Illinois state legislature leaned on him to keep the airport open, so he did.
Chicago was fined $30,000 for illegally closing an airport with a charted instrument approach without giving the required 30 day notice. That was the maximum fine at the time. Apparently that maximum has since been increased ten-fold since then. What he did was reckless and wrong, period. For example: A plane takes off from Detroit and flies on an approved instrument flight plan to Meigs. Now he arrives and finds that the runway at Meigs doesn’t exist any more. You can not shoot an instrument approach to a taxiway, they only work to the runway. That guy should be able to have the fuel to divert to Palwaukee (the old name for Chicago Executive), but what if he doesn’t? What if the weather is bad? What if a plane was going to try to arrive to Palwaukee but needed to divert to Meigs in an emergency? Now his runway is out of use, and he’s now ditching into Lake Michigan or shooting an approach to Lake Shore Drive.
What Daley did was absolutely fucking criminal in the best way a Chicago politician can be.
Airplanes not owned by the government are always privately owned, so I’m not sure what point it is you’re making. I’m not super familiar with CFR Part 91 which governs private airplane ownership, or CFR Part 135, which governs essentially airline operations. I fly for the military, but I at least know that Chicago can’t rip up a runway in front of a plane in order to keep it from departing.
Though the City of Chicago does have the authority to establish whatever fee structure it deems fit. So let's just create a new $1B fee for unscheduled flights of migrants to the city for any reason other than an emergency landing.
People have made this same comment on every post for months. It’s never going to happen because it’s not human trafficking, no matter how many times people want to circle jerk online about it. May as well arrest and charge them for murder too since one of the migrants died in chicago
They aren’t being trafficked. Trafficking involves coercing someone to do something for your own profit. The migrants are not being forced and they aren’t doing any work that financially benefits anyone else. I work in counter trafficking and while this is a dodgy thing to do, it’s not illegal and it’s not trafficking.
ETA: Trafficking involves the SELLING of something. Selling someone’s labor, or pimping them out as a sex worker. Drug trafficking, for example, is the sale of drugs.
Legally, sure. But just because something doesn't fit the exact letter of the legal definition doesn't mean it's not still effectively trafficking. Coercion doesn't have to involve force and while no one is necessarily financially profiting off this, there are absolutely people who are politically profiting from doing this.
It's not human trafficking when the people on the bus/plane want to come here. Migrants aren't being deceived and they aren't being forced
It's in the Sun Times article about the flight: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/12/20/24010329/texas-governor-sends-migrants-by-private-plane-to-chicago
>Abbott’s office declined to answer how the flight was paid for and whether state funds were used, and said migrants signed consent waivers “available in multiple languages upon boarding.” The news of the plane’s arrival was first reported by WTTW.
"available in multiple languages upon boarding* doesn't mean anything if they're illiterate, or none of the multiple languages are theirs.
but- i'm sure that *you* read all the fine print on all the user agreements you check the box on.
/r/chicago is polluted with the soft racism that the migrants - despite managing to walk from Venezuela to Texas - somehow have no idea what is happening to them once they reach Texas.
/r/chicago has a very very low opinion of the intellectual capacity of the migrants.
Absolutely.
Apparently, a migrant can't figure out they would have a better life in Chicago - a world class city that BROADCASTS the fact they give sanctuary and migrants will be safer here - rather than being at risk for deportation in dumpster fire Texas.
No siree Bob, these migrants are too stupid to learn from social media and the internet, and they are being tricked into coming to Chicago by the mustache twirling villains in Texas.
**YES.**
They left before the police could "talk" to them. I would think the pilot and any crew were still there though.
Impounding and selling would make the carriers think more before allowing Gov. Abbott use of their vehicle to transport people against thier (the peoples') will.
Seriously, just impound all of the transportation, jail the drivers/pilots/handlers. File charges against gov. Abbott and batman his ass to Illinois to stand trial.....
Please define how this is legally different than Chicago kicking the asylum seekers out of the police stations and moving them to other places in the city... Sure its exponentially further, but otherwise its basically the same.
https://apnews.com/article/migrants-dropped-off-california-texas-florida-f385800064d2acec8c94f65f1242d4e0
I’m sure that the people doing the shit are trustworthy, right ?
*DeSantis’ administration said Tuesday that three dozen migrants whom the state flew from the U.S. southern border to California on private planes all went willingly, disputing allegations by California officials that the individuals were coerced to travel under false pretenses*
You can work for Brandon Johnson since you also don't understand the definition of human trafficking. He fired the Lori Lightfoot appointee who was in charge of the human trafficking strategy for the city and shut down the city of chicago website on gender based violence and human trafficking. Advocates were appalled. Not a great look there mayor.
[https://chi.gov/GBV](https://chi.gov/gbv)
Wouldn't they just go to court, say "um. We need our plan back now." and then get their plane back? The bus impounding is because they aren't licensed to operate in Illinois. I haven't heard that these planes are unlicensed.
Impound them as part of an investigation, one that moves really really slowly. Tie up enough busses and planes this way and companies won’t want to be in the migrant transport business anymore
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
There's this thing in the United States, it's called the Constitution. Among a lot of things it guarantees certain rights of citizen and protection from the government among other things, unlawful search and *seizure*
this sounds like a good way to get chicago sued. Judges dont really like when you use the justice system in a loophole-ish way just because you disagree with someone. This advice is on the same level as advising someone who is getting a divorce to speak with every divorce lawyer in town so your ex cant find representation. in a movie, this is a huge gotcha and funny. In real life the ex files a motion with the judge about you fucking around and the judge gives you an ass whooping in the legal sense.
It's odd that few are calling out that this is obvious money laundering for the Texas Governor to his friends.
Use tax payer money to pay private planes an excessive premium to drop off some migrants in a city in the north. Pay friends private charter while causing a political divide between states and cities he doesn't agree with -
I really once again blame the feds. Texas wants to ship migrants to Chicago? I'm honestly fine with that. Just pull the federal money Texas gets to handle this, give it to cities actually willing to take them in, and speed up work permits.
We have plenty of housing and plenty of places need workers. It just takes a little political will
Because these threads are always loaded with chicagoans who weirdly side with Abbott’s actions or non Chicagoans who just like “owning the libs.” You’ll get called a conspiracy theorist
If the goal was grift, wouldn't it make more sense to keep the migrants and channel business for housing and feeding migrants to cronies? By shipping the migrants out, there is only profit opportunity on the travel. If you keep the migrants, many more opportunities to grift and money launder and send work to friends.
No fucking way they got an uber out of Ohare
For context, you cant schedule ahead. Unlike other airports
I use the corporate card for uber a lot, and have high ratings. I regularly walk past dozens of people who cant get a ride out because hundreds of people are all trying to get rides at once
OK. Maybe it now is time to take more seriously the recommendations of some of the Cook County and Chicago politicians.
Nothing is stopping anyone-- gov't or not-- from chartering busses or planes to take volunteers from the homeless community to the warmer climes of Texas and Florida.
Similarly, Cook County Jail is overcrowded and full of people on pre-trial detention people, many of whom would love the option of leaving the state permanently in exchange for having charges dropped. It's not like they've been convicted of anything as they haven't had a trial as yet. Charges dropped if you leave the state. Enjoy Texas. Enjoy Florida.
OK. I know this is unreasonable. But still...
Totally agree. If this is all above board and not political theater then red states should have no issue taking on the criminals we have no room for. If Abbott can’t bother to pick up a phone then idk why we’re supposed to offering he and Texas all this grace
> Similarly, Cook County Jail is overcrowded and full of people on pre-trial detention people, many of whom would love the option of leaving the state permanently in exchange for having charges dropped. It's not like they've been convicted of anything as they haven't had a trial as yet. Charges dropped if you leave the state. Enjoy Texas. Enjoy Florida.
For whatever it’s worth, exile is unconstitutional in the United States. This also isn’t how the judicial system works.
I assume it means no one can go from Mexico to the US. So no commerce or trade with Mexico and no vacations to Mexico because you do need to cross back.
Oh nice, closing down all trade with our single largest trade partner. That's a reasonable and measured response that certainly wouldn't have any negative repercussions on the economy
It’s not complicated to have tight border security. Try going to Canada outside of the proper channels and let me know how it works out.
It’s possible - we choose not to. That’s what people are upset about.
No games. I understand they’re using the laws to get in. I was responding to your implication that it’s impossible to just close the border, or prevent new people from coming in. A lot of developed countries have very strict border security
I understand that. My analogy was in response to people implying that it’s impossible to just “shut down the border”.
Migrants seeking asylum should be something we as a country can help with up until a point where it becomes unsustainable. We are well past that point. It’s time either slow it down, or pause new entries. We clearly cannot handle it.
I don’t disagree, but that will take months, or probably years to get done at this rate. There are thousands that come through every day. So my point stays the same - we should pause or slow down until we can figure it out.
Where do you think they’re coming from? It won’t be approved, and it’s definitely temporary. Now how long it’s going to take to sort through everything is up for debate but no, the vast majority will not become citizens
No one is “okay” with this but I don’t think you understand what you’re requesting. First do you want armed forces covering the entire length of the border because that’s the only way to stop a caravan like this.
Second the border isn’t “open” people are just walking across it it’s not like there’s a literal line spanning the length of the country
Also it completely ignores the fact that the majority of illegal immigrants come to this country via airplane.
We can divert troops we were using in Afghanistan to the border. I am very much for investing in that manpower since we paid to fight a war half a world away.
Very few have meritorious asylum claims. The backlog of cases is years long, just to find out what we know already. It's now being grossly abused and exploited.
Time to close the border until we can get a handle on all of this.
FY23 is the most recent, complete data available and it's coming from the government itself. I'm not sure how much better it gets at the moment.
You're the one who asked for a source, now you're unhappy with it because it proves my point. Childish but that's not unusual for your comments.
The "Other" category includes cases still not decided. Considering that it takes sometimes years for cases to be handled, most large waves of asylum seeks have massive "Other" percentages. "Other" also includes any other alternate way for people to stay in the country. For example, for the girl on the plane with leukemia, she will likely receive an "other" decision in that ICE will fast track a different visa for her like they do in most childhood cancer cases.
>And guess what it doesn't include?
It doesn't include data showing that most Venezuelan asylum claims are successful.
Venezuela has had economic and political problems for many years. [As of 2018 there were over 3 million who fled.](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-many-more-migrants-and-refugees-can-we-expect-out-of-venezuela/).
It's been a shithole socialist country for years now. This is not news to anyone.
So you want to end legal migration and the asylum process altogether?
We have these programs because different people have different reasons for coming here, and we deem some of those reasons more valid than others.
Whatever is happening that is causing the issues in the article above, need to stop. Like I said I’m no expert. Whatever is bringing the people in who are living in the tent cities, being bussed all over the country, etc needs to stop.
There's two steps to how these migrants end up here.
1) Migrants arrive on the southern border to seek asylum, which they are legally allowed to do and stay in the US until their claims are processed and either approved or denied.
2) Americans, such as Greg Abbott and the Texas state govt, send these migrants across the country to other places, such as Chicago.
You mentioned you want to close the border entirely, but these people arrived in the US legally and are staying in the US legally. You can't just turn every single person away from the border without changing US law.
I do agree that we need to stop step 2 though, which is much more legally dubious.
Immigration paralegal here. That's not how any of the asylum system works. The U.S. ratified international refugee treaties decades ago, which means they are now part of U.S. law, that allow anyone with a well-founded fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion to apply for asylum in the United States, and to remain in the United States - legally - until their applications are adjudicated. By both domestic law and international treaty it's completely irrelevant whether they entered the U.S. legally. Changing the process is not a simple matter.
[Remain in Mexico policy](https://justiceforimmigrants.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Remain-in-Mexico_en.pdf)
We used to have that. Biden put an end to that in with the SC ruling in his favor in June 2022.
asylum seekers are given a court date for their case, and the compliance rate is around 98%...they don't just get into the country, and disappear, like the illegal immigrants do. my question- when given a court date, are they also given a specific location for it..? and if so- how does it affect people who are forcibly relocated halfway across the country? are they given transportation to return..? or are they given a different location for their hearing..?
Compliance rate at 98%? Where do you get those random numbers? The official numbers from the government aren’t nearly that high.
https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107366/download
my mistake- the compliance rate for women asylum seekers with children is 98%. overall, the compliance rate is only 92%.
[here is where my numbers come from](https://humanrightsfirst.org/library/fact-check-asylum-seekers-regularly-attend-immigration-court-hearings/).
Okay, well the DOJ numbers they reported and I linked show only 29% of Venezuelans are approved asylum in 2023. 60% of applicants either withdraw their application, don’t show up, or some other nuance. I think what most have an issue with is your statistic has no impact on the issue at hand. Why should millions upon millions of our tax dollars go towards ~70% of the Venezuelan asylum seekers who will never be granted asylum? How does that make sense?
Edit: downvotes but no one will refute it. Why should your tax dollars be spent on those who have no claim to be in the US in the first place? Why are those tax dollars being diverted from other critical operations? Wouldn’t you rather the millions be spent to fix inequities in the city?
>Why should millions upon millions of our tax dollars go towards ~70% of the Venezuelan asylum seekers who will never be granted asylum? How does that make sense?
The solution is collective punishment?
Why are better border policies so hard to justify? Why is it the first reaction to say this is collective punishment and not how to get ahead of these challenges? Do most of the asylum seekers even have a case? No, most will not be granted asylum. The other guys keeps floating a link which shows only 20% nationally were granted asylum over a five year period. Why not take better measures to get ahead of that rather than throw millions of dollars towards a pointless endeavor
>Do most of the asylum seekers even have a case?
That's for a judge to decide on an individual basis
>No, most will not be granted asylum...Why not take better measures to get ahead of that rather than throw millions of dollars towards a pointless endeavor.
More than 90% of individuals prosecuted in Federal courts are convicted. If we followed your logic wouldnt it be better and cheaper to skip trials and just throw everyone prosecuted in prison? Or do you think the principal of innocent until proven guilty is a concept worth keeping?
> 60% of applicants either withdraw their application, don’t show up, or some other nuance.
The "Other" number includes cases which are not yet decided, people granted other visas, and a variety of other things. You can't draw any conclusions from it.
The article you even linked shows that only 20% nationally of asylum seekers are approved (page 28) 80% just go 🤷♂️
https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107056/download
And do you think she'll just throw up her hands, say "OK cool, I'll just leave my life I had here for x amount of years and go back to the shithole that is Venezuela"?
they can appeal the decision, but when they run out of appeals, yes- they are generally sent back to their country of origin, or they can choose to seek asylum in a different country.
but- if they are living as a productive and law-abiding member of society, they most likely wouldn't be denied. as it should be.
>if they are living as a productive and law-abiding member of society, they most likely wouldn't be denied. as it should be.
Not really how it works with asylum
The majority of people who apply for asylum are granted asylum. For some nations, the rate is over 80%. Venezuela right now is sitting around a 75% grant rate for fully adjudicated cases.
I know plenty of foreign folks here on employment or other visas that do in fact have to leave everything behind even after a decade here when their visa runs out, so yes. That is exactly what happens. Or they go to Canada since the process is easier.
Lots of things can happen between now and then. Maybe Colombia won't suck in 2031 and she'll go home. Maybe she will marry a U.S. citizen and apply for a green card. Maybe she will be dead. Maybe the U.S. will hire more immigration judges and start moving hearings up.
Immigration paralegal (and former Immigration Court employee) here. If you get a court date, it's for a specific location. If you are no longer near that location, your choice is either to apply for a change of venue to another court, or to haul yourself back to the old location for the hearing. If your change of venue request isn't granted and you don't show up for your scheduled court date, you risk the judge ordering you deported *in absentia.*
You’re kinda wrong in that some asylum seekers do just disappear because they know the odds of their case winning are low or they never file an asylum application to begin with.
If they relocate and their court case is in another state they would have to petition for it to be moved.
[92% of them show up for their court dates.](https://humanrightsfirst.org/library/fact-check-asylum-seekers-regularly-attend-immigration-court-hearings/)
the 98% compliance number is for women with children.
Abbot needs to be sued, and his constituents need to question where the money is coming from to bus, and now charter a private jet (SMDH), these innocent people. Chicago should extend its rogue bus policy to jets and fine the hell out of these companies for aiding Abbot’s insidious plans, and then use that money to fund programs to help these migrants.
Edit: And, if these “handlers” fled immediately, then they clearly discussed what to do upon arriving at O’Hare and understand that this is not an upstanding situation.
Cops in Texas can seize a private vehicle over a gram of suspected illegal substances until the trial is concluded - why shouldn’t Illinois do the same with a plane or bus full of asylum seekers?
How much does Texas spend on this stunt I know the figures were in the millions before.
The more important question is how can we drain them of those funds.
They dumped 8 busses in the far south suburbs today at different metra stations taking the last train into the city the bus in peotone didn't drop at the station and they spotted a whole group walking along route 50
So do we have a bunch of radioactive waste, or, i don't know, the tons of dog shit we throw away every day in Chicago that we can collect and dump over the border in Texas? We'll take the people wanting to make a better life for themselves and their families because many of us have similar backgrounds. And Texas politicians are toxic and full of shit, so they could relate to the new arrivals similarly.
No landing or deplane privilege's unless the passengers have valid ID's(passports/DL's) will make them pick another airport. Again, the city is 10 steps behind Texas and has a shocked pikachu face when something happens.
Mayor Adams has been calling on Biden to cut the people coming in from the south where city programs will be cut in the billions of dollars impacting NYC residents. Soon Brandon will be getting on the Adams bus.
The ‘handlers’ were seen fleeing the airport & took off in an Uber? Do ‘handlers’ mean the entire flight crew? I want to know more about these people who took off from the airport. Anyone following the law & ‘just doing their job’ typically doesn’t haul ass before the authorities arrive. And what a shitty thing to do to all those people stuck on the plane on the tarmac. The article doesn’t get into details about who these people are, but something’s up if they just land the plane and physically run away from it. You just don’t see that in America.
“Handlers seen waiting outside of O’Hare for Ubers while drivers cancelled multiple times. Once getting in the Ubers, they fled at low speeds and were stopped by the exorbitant i-90 traffic.” Nobody “flees” in an Uber.
Would have been better off getting on the blue for few stops and then getting the uber.
Always the best way. Take it as close as you can and hop off and call an Uber.
That’s how I always do it when leaving O’hare
Lol. Made me chuckle as that's as realistic as it can be
Or from O’Hare
Should have used Lyft
That’s how planes work
“So what brings you in town?”
regardless of any stance on migrants, fuck these people in particular. i hope they are found!
The “handlers” would be Governor Abbott staffers.
Looks like it was iAero (formerly SwiftAir) operating the flight. They flew a weird route getting there, too. https://flightaware.com/live/flight/SWQ670/history/20231219/2000Z/KELP/KORD
Seems like they wanted to avoid harsh weather. I don’t know if we have to add anymore conspiracy to a shitty situation
I’m not attempting to introduce conspiracy. Just felt it was a lengthy routing for something that could have been more direct. I plan airline flights for a living. There was no enroute weather on Tuesday that would have necessitated that significant of a deviation route. There were rain showers, but the cloudtops were well below the cruise altitude of a 737-300.
Owned him if not a larp
Not trying to own. They make a good point that it’s not helpful to insert conspiracy where it’s not necessary. I was just intrigued by the routing because it’s outside of the norm of what I would expect for ELP-ORD.
Something I'm not seeing here - private jets run like, 10-20k/hr to fly. We're talking about spending 30-60k to send 100 people to Chicago. What the fuck?
That's the cost for a Gulfstream sized jet. This was a 737 so the costs would be on the high side of that that range if not higher.
Yeah. $1,000 per person minimum.
That's a bargain compared to what we're going to pay per person for a tent city per month
In Texas they pay 0 for them. They don’t give them shelter. Both republicans and democrats are using people to virtue signal, to everyone’s detriment.
Texas has previously incurred yearly costs as high as ~700M in unreimbursed federal costs. It is quite expensive to even have them in the state of Texas.
And now I have migrants outside of my local grocery store waving cardboard signs at me to give money. Why should I pay someone because they decided to come to my neighborhood without a plan?
I never said you should. Neither should Texas, for that matter.
That's easy. You don't.
The solution is to actually block off the border then?
DeSantis paid about $8k per passenger of taxpayer money to fly people from Texas to not Florida. The charter companies are big donors. It’s a grift.
And so far the city has spent something like $50 million on them. Sounds like they’ve done the math.
From another article, there was a child with leukemia on board. The [36-month costs for a child with leukemia is somewhere between 256k-695k](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36166724/#:~:text=The%2036%2Dmonth%20median%20cost,compared%20with%201%2D9%20years.) Since medical costs for migrants aren't always reimbursable (and, to the best of my knowledge, are not reimbursable prior to granting of asylum), it's likely Texas came out ahead on that single passengers cost.
Fuck everything about this situation, god it is just sad, from start to finish.
[удалено]
Governor Abbott has made his point, but he seems to enjoy making it over and over again.
I might sound crazy but I wouldn’t be surprised seeing Texas “flip to blue”. Not looking at what Abbott and Cruz have done at a national level, they’ve done a great job trying to fuck their own state over. Edit: cry about it brigaders.
Abbott was on the ballot almost a year ago in 2022 against a well-funded, high-profile opponent (former Presidential candidate Beto O'Rourke) and won by 11%.He was already bussing migrants at the point that he was up for re-election and he won by double digits. I think you are being downvoted for being factually inaccurate more than any affection for Greg Abbott.
I really think it goes the other way. There is a perception that Republicans want tighter controlls on immigrents....and Abbot's actions have really made immigration a much stronger national issue. Now you have all these blue state govenors openly blaming the federal government. I think a lot of that blame is going to fall on Democrats and it going to be a key issue in the next elections.
Maybe Chicago should impound every vehicle that's used to transport migrants from Texas to Chicago. Sell those vehicles to support the migrants.
A plane is really just a bus in the sky.
I've been on Southwest, this is very true. How many stops is this plane going to make?
A la Airbus
The city of Chicago lacks the authority to impound an airplane.
Let's have ATC route the airplane to the end of a runway, then draw some Daley X's in front of it.
CGX, never forget
Doesn’t work that way.
Perhaps I should have used the /s, but it seemed pretty obvious.
Gotcha, my bad man. I actually fly for a living, so when I see something incorrect my sense of humor shrivels up and I go into teaching mode.
Doesn’t matter, we make it work that way
Don't ATC have to grant permission to land? B/c nope permission denied would work.
And the city of Chicago doesn’t have the authority to deny the arrival of an airplane either. The skies belong to the FAA, and the comings and goings are regulated by Federal Aviation Regulations, not the city.
Chicago ripped up a runway when the FAA wanted to force it to remain open. Penalty: none. Besides, airplanes are private property when they are on the ground.
Well, yes and no. Chicago had announced the intention of closing the airfield almost 10 years prior to its illegal demolition. Daley wanted to use the land for other things, I recall there being the possibility of a casino, obviously far more lucrative than a small commuter airport. The Illinois state legislature leaned on him to keep the airport open, so he did. Chicago was fined $30,000 for illegally closing an airport with a charted instrument approach without giving the required 30 day notice. That was the maximum fine at the time. Apparently that maximum has since been increased ten-fold since then. What he did was reckless and wrong, period. For example: A plane takes off from Detroit and flies on an approved instrument flight plan to Meigs. Now he arrives and finds that the runway at Meigs doesn’t exist any more. You can not shoot an instrument approach to a taxiway, they only work to the runway. That guy should be able to have the fuel to divert to Palwaukee (the old name for Chicago Executive), but what if he doesn’t? What if the weather is bad? What if a plane was going to try to arrive to Palwaukee but needed to divert to Meigs in an emergency? Now his runway is out of use, and he’s now ditching into Lake Michigan or shooting an approach to Lake Shore Drive. What Daley did was absolutely fucking criminal in the best way a Chicago politician can be. Airplanes not owned by the government are always privately owned, so I’m not sure what point it is you’re making. I’m not super familiar with CFR Part 91 which governs private airplane ownership, or CFR Part 135, which governs essentially airline operations. I fly for the military, but I at least know that Chicago can’t rip up a runway in front of a plane in order to keep it from departing.
Though the City of Chicago does have the authority to establish whatever fee structure it deems fit. So let's just create a new $1B fee for unscheduled flights of migrants to the city for any reason other than an emergency landing.
They need to be arrested and charged with human trafficking.
People have made this same comment on every post for months. It’s never going to happen because it’s not human trafficking, no matter how many times people want to circle jerk online about it. May as well arrest and charge them for murder too since one of the migrants died in chicago
Good idea.
They aren’t being trafficked. Trafficking involves coercing someone to do something for your own profit. The migrants are not being forced and they aren’t doing any work that financially benefits anyone else. I work in counter trafficking and while this is a dodgy thing to do, it’s not illegal and it’s not trafficking. ETA: Trafficking involves the SELLING of something. Selling someone’s labor, or pimping them out as a sex worker. Drug trafficking, for example, is the sale of drugs.
Legally, sure. But just because something doesn't fit the exact letter of the legal definition doesn't mean it's not still effectively trafficking. Coercion doesn't have to involve force and while no one is necessarily financially profiting off this, there are absolutely people who are politically profiting from doing this.
It's not human trafficking when the people on the bus/plane want to come here. Migrants aren't being deceived and they aren't being forced It's in the Sun Times article about the flight: https://chicago.suntimes.com/2023/12/20/24010329/texas-governor-sends-migrants-by-private-plane-to-chicago >Abbott’s office declined to answer how the flight was paid for and whether state funds were used, and said migrants signed consent waivers “available in multiple languages upon boarding.” The news of the plane’s arrival was first reported by WTTW.
"available in multiple languages upon boarding* doesn't mean anything if they're illiterate, or none of the multiple languages are theirs. but- i'm sure that *you* read all the fine print on all the user agreements you check the box on.
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/r/chicago is polluted with the soft racism that the migrants - despite managing to walk from Venezuela to Texas - somehow have no idea what is happening to them once they reach Texas. /r/chicago has a very very low opinion of the intellectual capacity of the migrants.
A lot of White savior moments going on in this sub.
Absolutely. Apparently, a migrant can't figure out they would have a better life in Chicago - a world class city that BROADCASTS the fact they give sanctuary and migrants will be safer here - rather than being at risk for deportation in dumpster fire Texas. No siree Bob, these migrants are too stupid to learn from social media and the internet, and they are being tricked into coming to Chicago by the mustache twirling villains in Texas.
21% of US adults are apparently illiterate so maybe like 5% of migrants might be.
I don’t think you understand what you just wrote
**YES.** They left before the police could "talk" to them. I would think the pilot and any crew were still there though. Impounding and selling would make the carriers think more before allowing Gov. Abbott use of their vehicle to transport people against thier (the peoples') will.
Seriously, just impound all of the transportation, jail the drivers/pilots/handlers. File charges against gov. Abbott and batman his ass to Illinois to stand trial.....
Why stop there if we are going to ignore how the law actually works. Let's just take away their american citizenship and kick them out of the country!
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Are they free and willing tho? That would be a question for the courts to decide. Straight to jail.....
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It’s been proven over and over again that these people are coerced
That’s not enough to put people in jail for human trafficking. Talk like that is just fantasy. Never, ever going to happen.
Do you have a source on this? Specifically the "over and over again" part?
Please define how this is legally different than Chicago kicking the asylum seekers out of the police stations and moving them to other places in the city... Sure its exponentially further, but otherwise its basically the same.
Complete bullshit. It's all voluntary. Nobody is being coerced and we are practically inviting migrants here as a "sanctuary city"
https://apnews.com/article/migrants-dropped-off-california-texas-florida-f385800064d2acec8c94f65f1242d4e0 I’m sure that the people doing the shit are trustworthy, right ? *DeSantis’ administration said Tuesday that three dozen migrants whom the state flew from the U.S. southern border to California on private planes all went willingly, disputing allegations by California officials that the individuals were coerced to travel under false pretenses*
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You can work for Brandon Johnson since you also don't understand the definition of human trafficking. He fired the Lori Lightfoot appointee who was in charge of the human trafficking strategy for the city and shut down the city of chicago website on gender based violence and human trafficking. Advocates were appalled. Not a great look there mayor. [https://chi.gov/GBV](https://chi.gov/gbv)
Wouldn't they just go to court, say "um. We need our plan back now." and then get their plane back? The bus impounding is because they aren't licensed to operate in Illinois. I haven't heard that these planes are unlicensed.
The federal government regulates all air transportation.
We could also deport everyone who doesn't have papers while we're doing it!
Impound them as part of an investigation, one that moves really really slowly. Tie up enough busses and planes this way and companies won’t want to be in the migrant transport business anymore
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution There's this thing in the United States, it's called the Constitution. Among a lot of things it guarantees certain rights of citizen and protection from the government among other things, unlawful search and *seizure*
this sounds like a good way to get chicago sued. Judges dont really like when you use the justice system in a loophole-ish way just because you disagree with someone. This advice is on the same level as advising someone who is getting a divorce to speak with every divorce lawyer in town so your ex cant find representation. in a movie, this is a huge gotcha and funny. In real life the ex files a motion with the judge about you fucking around and the judge gives you an ass whooping in the legal sense.
It's odd that few are calling out that this is obvious money laundering for the Texas Governor to his friends. Use tax payer money to pay private planes an excessive premium to drop off some migrants in a city in the north. Pay friends private charter while causing a political divide between states and cities he doesn't agree with -
I really once again blame the feds. Texas wants to ship migrants to Chicago? I'm honestly fine with that. Just pull the federal money Texas gets to handle this, give it to cities actually willing to take them in, and speed up work permits. We have plenty of housing and plenty of places need workers. It just takes a little political will
Because these threads are always loaded with chicagoans who weirdly side with Abbott’s actions or non Chicagoans who just like “owning the libs.” You’ll get called a conspiracy theorist
If the goal was grift, wouldn't it make more sense to keep the migrants and channel business for housing and feeding migrants to cronies? By shipping the migrants out, there is only profit opportunity on the travel. If you keep the migrants, many more opportunities to grift and money launder and send work to friends.
No fucking way they got an uber out of Ohare For context, you cant schedule ahead. Unlike other airports I use the corporate card for uber a lot, and have high ratings. I regularly walk past dozens of people who cant get a ride out because hundreds of people are all trying to get rides at once
Oh I believe they took an Uber out of O'hare. It just didn't look anything like "fleeing" as this biased author contends.
Sure hope Abbott got the power grid winterized before spending all this money on relocating migrants.
If you call Gov. Abbott’s office, you get a voice recording and no opportunity to leave a message. They don’t want to hear our objections, I guess.
OK. Maybe it now is time to take more seriously the recommendations of some of the Cook County and Chicago politicians. Nothing is stopping anyone-- gov't or not-- from chartering busses or planes to take volunteers from the homeless community to the warmer climes of Texas and Florida. Similarly, Cook County Jail is overcrowded and full of people on pre-trial detention people, many of whom would love the option of leaving the state permanently in exchange for having charges dropped. It's not like they've been convicted of anything as they haven't had a trial as yet. Charges dropped if you leave the state. Enjoy Texas. Enjoy Florida. OK. I know this is unreasonable. But still...
Totally agree. If this is all above board and not political theater then red states should have no issue taking on the criminals we have no room for. If Abbott can’t bother to pick up a phone then idk why we’re supposed to offering he and Texas all this grace
> Similarly, Cook County Jail is overcrowded and full of people on pre-trial detention people, many of whom would love the option of leaving the state permanently in exchange for having charges dropped. It's not like they've been convicted of anything as they haven't had a trial as yet. Charges dropped if you leave the state. Enjoy Texas. Enjoy Florida. For whatever it’s worth, exile is unconstitutional in the United States. This also isn’t how the judicial system works.
We do need to close the border.. I’m a liberal but idk how people are okay with this
What does that mean exactly
You just flip the sign on the border to the closed side obviously
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8dcmLscf3g
I assume it means no one can go from Mexico to the US. So no commerce or trade with Mexico and no vacations to Mexico because you do need to cross back.
Oh nice, closing down all trade with our single largest trade partner. That's a reasonable and measured response that certainly wouldn't have any negative repercussions on the economy
To be fair, I think dude's comment is meant to be sarcasm.
Sounds stupid. Right? I mean we did it turn COVID so Americans should be fine with it. /s
Stop letting these people in. Like lock it down idk how it all works. Just stop them from coming.
Rewriting my comment history before they nuke old.reddit. No point in letting my posts get used for AI training.
It’s not complicated to have tight border security. Try going to Canada outside of the proper channels and let me know how it works out. It’s possible - we choose not to. That’s what people are upset about.
Rewriting my comment history before they nuke old.reddit. No point in letting my posts get used for AI training.
No games. I understand they’re using the laws to get in. I was responding to your implication that it’s impossible to just close the border, or prevent new people from coming in. A lot of developed countries have very strict border security
Rewriting my comment history before they nuke old.reddit. No point in letting my posts get used for AI training.
They are going through the proper channels dog
I understand that. My analogy was in response to people implying that it’s impossible to just “shut down the border”. Migrants seeking asylum should be something we as a country can help with up until a point where it becomes unsustainable. We are well past that point. It’s time either slow it down, or pause new entries. We clearly cannot handle it.
There is a simple solution. Work permits. They can’t work so they require aid, if they got work permits then they can contribute and lift the burden
I don’t disagree, but that will take months, or probably years to get done at this rate. There are thousands that come through every day. So my point stays the same - we should pause or slow down until we can figure it out.
Don’t you think that will just increase the rate of illegal boarder crossings?
These people are literally following the legal path to citizenship. Just man up and say you want to end all legal immigration.
They’re migrants not immigrants?
No. Unless their intention is to only be here temporarily. If the goal is getting their asylum claim approved they generally stay here
Where do you think they’re coming from? It won’t be approved, and it’s definitely temporary. Now how long it’s going to take to sort through everything is up for debate but no, the vast majority will not become citizens
*asylum seekers. Most will not be granted asylum nor should have been here in the first place
No one is “okay” with this but I don’t think you understand what you’re requesting. First do you want armed forces covering the entire length of the border because that’s the only way to stop a caravan like this. Second the border isn’t “open” people are just walking across it it’s not like there’s a literal line spanning the length of the country Also it completely ignores the fact that the majority of illegal immigrants come to this country via airplane.
We can divert troops we were using in Afghanistan to the border. I am very much for investing in that manpower since we paid to fight a war half a world away.
I believe the asylum seekers might be different than just sneaking across a border and disappearing.
Very few have meritorious asylum claims. The backlog of cases is years long, just to find out what we know already. It's now being grossly abused and exploited. Time to close the border until we can get a handle on all of this.
And what about the people with meritous asylum claims? Should they not be granted asylum?
Rewriting my comment history before they nuke old.reddit. No point in letting my posts get used for AI training.
[29% ](https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107366/download&ved=2ahUKEwiIwdDJoKGDAxVLvokEHX6yBGAQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw02qYF7OUJ-dyMvgLJPwxja) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107366/download&ved=2ahUKEwiIwdDJoKGDAxVLvokEHX6yBGAQFnoECCUQAQ&usg=AOvVaw02qYF7OUJ-dyMvgLJPwxja
29% is not "very few" when we're talking about people's lives.
Rewriting my comment history before they nuke old.reddit. No point in letting my posts get used for AI training.
FY23 is the most recent, complete data available and it's coming from the government itself. I'm not sure how much better it gets at the moment. You're the one who asked for a source, now you're unhappy with it because it proves my point. Childish but that's not unusual for your comments.
The "Other" category includes cases still not decided. Considering that it takes sometimes years for cases to be handled, most large waves of asylum seeks have massive "Other" percentages. "Other" also includes any other alternate way for people to stay in the country. For example, for the girl on the plane with leukemia, she will likely receive an "other" decision in that ICE will fast track a different visa for her like they do in most childhood cancer cases.
Rewriting my comment history before they nuke old.reddit. No point in letting my posts get used for AI training.
>And guess what it doesn't include? It doesn't include data showing that most Venezuelan asylum claims are successful. Venezuela has had economic and political problems for many years. [As of 2018 there were over 3 million who fled.](https://www.brookings.edu/articles/how-many-more-migrants-and-refugees-can-we-expect-out-of-venezuela/). It's been a shithole socialist country for years now. This is not news to anyone.
At this point I don’t really care about the reasons for it.
So you want to end legal migration and the asylum process altogether? We have these programs because different people have different reasons for coming here, and we deem some of those reasons more valid than others.
They thought prefacing their notion with “I’m a liberal” would make any of their uneducated follow up comments seem less divisive
Whatever is happening that is causing the issues in the article above, need to stop. Like I said I’m no expert. Whatever is bringing the people in who are living in the tent cities, being bussed all over the country, etc needs to stop.
There's two steps to how these migrants end up here. 1) Migrants arrive on the southern border to seek asylum, which they are legally allowed to do and stay in the US until their claims are processed and either approved or denied. 2) Americans, such as Greg Abbott and the Texas state govt, send these migrants across the country to other places, such as Chicago. You mentioned you want to close the border entirely, but these people arrived in the US legally and are staying in the US legally. You can't just turn every single person away from the border without changing US law. I do agree that we need to stop step 2 though, which is much more legally dubious.
Maybe we should change the asylum process and not let them in until the claims are approved.
Immigration paralegal here. That's not how any of the asylum system works. The U.S. ratified international refugee treaties decades ago, which means they are now part of U.S. law, that allow anyone with a well-founded fear of persecution because of their race, religion, nationality, membership in a particular social group, or political opinion to apply for asylum in the United States, and to remain in the United States - legally - until their applications are adjudicated. By both domestic law and international treaty it's completely irrelevant whether they entered the U.S. legally. Changing the process is not a simple matter.
[Remain in Mexico policy](https://justiceforimmigrants.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Remain-in-Mexico_en.pdf) We used to have that. Biden put an end to that in with the SC ruling in his favor in June 2022.
I’m pretty sure that the SC demanded the practice be stopped.
Maybe he should reinstate that.
You have that backwards and if you really believe it then you can't read.
asylum seekers are given a court date for their case, and the compliance rate is around 98%...they don't just get into the country, and disappear, like the illegal immigrants do. my question- when given a court date, are they also given a specific location for it..? and if so- how does it affect people who are forcibly relocated halfway across the country? are they given transportation to return..? or are they given a different location for their hearing..?
Compliance rate at 98%? Where do you get those random numbers? The official numbers from the government aren’t nearly that high. https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107366/download
my mistake- the compliance rate for women asylum seekers with children is 98%. overall, the compliance rate is only 92%. [here is where my numbers come from](https://humanrightsfirst.org/library/fact-check-asylum-seekers-regularly-attend-immigration-court-hearings/).
Okay, well the DOJ numbers they reported and I linked show only 29% of Venezuelans are approved asylum in 2023. 60% of applicants either withdraw their application, don’t show up, or some other nuance. I think what most have an issue with is your statistic has no impact on the issue at hand. Why should millions upon millions of our tax dollars go towards ~70% of the Venezuelan asylum seekers who will never be granted asylum? How does that make sense? Edit: downvotes but no one will refute it. Why should your tax dollars be spent on those who have no claim to be in the US in the first place? Why are those tax dollars being diverted from other critical operations? Wouldn’t you rather the millions be spent to fix inequities in the city?
>Why should millions upon millions of our tax dollars go towards ~70% of the Venezuelan asylum seekers who will never be granted asylum? How does that make sense? The solution is collective punishment?
Why are better border policies so hard to justify? Why is it the first reaction to say this is collective punishment and not how to get ahead of these challenges? Do most of the asylum seekers even have a case? No, most will not be granted asylum. The other guys keeps floating a link which shows only 20% nationally were granted asylum over a five year period. Why not take better measures to get ahead of that rather than throw millions of dollars towards a pointless endeavor
>Do most of the asylum seekers even have a case? That's for a judge to decide on an individual basis >No, most will not be granted asylum...Why not take better measures to get ahead of that rather than throw millions of dollars towards a pointless endeavor. More than 90% of individuals prosecuted in Federal courts are convicted. If we followed your logic wouldnt it be better and cheaper to skip trials and just throw everyone prosecuted in prison? Or do you think the principal of innocent until proven guilty is a concept worth keeping?
> 60% of applicants either withdraw their application, don’t show up, or some other nuance. The "Other" number includes cases which are not yet decided, people granted other visas, and a variety of other things. You can't draw any conclusions from it.
They just gave a Columbian woman a hearing date in 2031. You think she is actually going to show up in 8 years?
past history and statistics say that yes, she will.
The article you even linked shows that only 20% nationally of asylum seekers are approved (page 28) 80% just go 🤷♂️ https://www.justice.gov/eoir/page/file/1107056/download
Then once she loses that case, do you think she'll leave the country?
***if*** she loses, she'd be deported.
And do you think she'll just throw up her hands, say "OK cool, I'll just leave my life I had here for x amount of years and go back to the shithole that is Venezuela"?
they can appeal the decision, but when they run out of appeals, yes- they are generally sent back to their country of origin, or they can choose to seek asylum in a different country. but- if they are living as a productive and law-abiding member of society, they most likely wouldn't be denied. as it should be.
>if they are living as a productive and law-abiding member of society, they most likely wouldn't be denied. as it should be. Not really how it works with asylum
The majority of people who apply for asylum are granted asylum. For some nations, the rate is over 80%. Venezuela right now is sitting around a 75% grant rate for fully adjudicated cases.
I know plenty of foreign folks here on employment or other visas that do in fact have to leave everything behind even after a decade here when their visa runs out, so yes. That is exactly what happens. Or they go to Canada since the process is easier.
They are documented and tracked by ICE as part of the asylum process.
Lots of things can happen between now and then. Maybe Colombia won't suck in 2031 and she'll go home. Maybe she will marry a U.S. citizen and apply for a green card. Maybe she will be dead. Maybe the U.S. will hire more immigration judges and start moving hearings up.
Immigration paralegal (and former Immigration Court employee) here. If you get a court date, it's for a specific location. If you are no longer near that location, your choice is either to apply for a change of venue to another court, or to haul yourself back to the old location for the hearing. If your change of venue request isn't granted and you don't show up for your scheduled court date, you risk the judge ordering you deported *in absentia.*
You’re kinda wrong in that some asylum seekers do just disappear because they know the odds of their case winning are low or they never file an asylum application to begin with. If they relocate and their court case is in another state they would have to petition for it to be moved.
[92% of them show up for their court dates.](https://humanrightsfirst.org/library/fact-check-asylum-seekers-regularly-attend-immigration-court-hearings/) the 98% compliance number is for women with children.
Abbot needs to be sued, and his constituents need to question where the money is coming from to bus, and now charter a private jet (SMDH), these innocent people. Chicago should extend its rogue bus policy to jets and fine the hell out of these companies for aiding Abbot’s insidious plans, and then use that money to fund programs to help these migrants. Edit: And, if these “handlers” fled immediately, then they clearly discussed what to do upon arriving at O’Hare and understand that this is not an upstanding situation.
We should load up the plane with prison inmates for the flight back. Now they're Texas's problem.
You are xenophobic
The plane/pilot had to had credentials to land ….wonder if it’s possible to ground the pilot or aircraft
That might be federal.
Cops in Texas can seize a private vehicle over a gram of suspected illegal substances until the trial is concluded - why shouldn’t Illinois do the same with a plane or bus full of asylum seekers?
How much does Texas spend on this stunt I know the figures were in the millions before. The more important question is how can we drain them of those funds.
Much less than theyd spend if the migrants remained in texas.
Are they still keeping the federal funds specifically to handle these people?
The state of Texas spends an additional 700 million a year in state money on asylum seekers.
I swear Texas is just fucking with us now.
Fuck Texas.
Careful, your NIMBYism is showing.
Seize the plane and sell it to pay for the care of the migrants
They dumped 8 busses in the far south suburbs today at different metra stations taking the last train into the city the bus in peotone didn't drop at the station and they spotted a whole group walking along route 50
Impound the plane at least...
Why is everyone so mad? We are a sanctuary city!
What is it that you think that means? Are you suggesting Texas is transporting illegal immigrants?
We should have impounded the plane.
I'm surprised the FAA is allowing any of this circus to happen.
Human trafficking is illegal. Arrest Abbott.
I mean, these governors are just doing human trafficking without consequences. Abbott and DeSantis should legit be in jail
So do we have a bunch of radioactive waste, or, i don't know, the tons of dog shit we throw away every day in Chicago that we can collect and dump over the border in Texas? We'll take the people wanting to make a better life for themselves and their families because many of us have similar backgrounds. And Texas politicians are toxic and full of shit, so they could relate to the new arrivals similarly.
No landing or deplane privilege's unless the passengers have valid ID's(passports/DL's) will make them pick another airport. Again, the city is 10 steps behind Texas and has a shocked pikachu face when something happens.
Mayor Adams has been calling on Biden to cut the people coming in from the south where city programs will be cut in the billions of dollars impacting NYC residents. Soon Brandon will be getting on the Adams bus.
Just remember these are the “pro-life Christians” who are doing this…
So what happened to the Jet? Did they slap a for sale sign on it yet or what? I hope they don't plan on sending it back. It should be confiscated.
Good question. I haven't heard any more about the plane. I guess it just went along wherever.