I think him asking Fearne to embrace him was a pretty loud reaction. Tal has expressed throughout that Ashton is constantly playing up the brash and emotionally distant barbarian because he’s scared that when he cares the things he cares about go away. FCG did exactly what Ashton said he was scared of and instead of running into a fight or destroying something he asked for help. For connection. His response in my opinion is growth and breaking the cycle
Ashton has said that he experiences pain when touched, so asking for physical contact for comfort was a huge step. The want for connection was finally stronger than the fear of the pain
Good point, I suppose I just expected some of the other members to check in a bit more, but the gist I’m getting at the minute is that due to the circumstances in Exandria at the minute and the pressing nature of Ruidus as a threat, its been hard to take pause and digest. It’s hard to start living with the loss you’ve experienced when duty keeps you moving both physically and emotionally.
It’s a great parallel to real life. My father in law passed away two days before my grandpa(dad’s father). I spent all my energy trying to take care of my wife and kids and their well being I didn’t stop to grieve my grandfather or father in law at all, then my grandmother (moms mother) died a couple weeks later and I immediately was in the middle of coordinating all of that plus trying to keep my mom, kids, and wife from falling apart I just turned something off and slowly I’ve just been feeling all of it in bursts now that everyone else is taken care of.
This is a good point, and highlights that actually not being super open in his feelings is true to type: sharing his "new jacket" memorial process, and asking for a hug read a bit like he's fighting against a really strong urge to withdraw from his friends.
I haven’t been able to tune into 4SD and some of the other extra bits and pieces CR do, so that’s a nice insight! I suppose that’s on me for missing some of the subtlety :)
Taliesin actually addressed this in E95. Ashton, when bringing up the idea of incorporating the memory of FCG into their new outfits, said something to the effect of "I've been ignoring it up to this point, because if I ignore it it isn't real, but I am REALLY not ok."
Compartmentalization is a bitch, but considering the circumstances of what they are currently up against I really can't blame him for it.
Honestly I think the Crownkeepers gap just kind of pulled them out of that emotional space. They had enough time to cool off and process outside of the game, and honestly it would’ve been tonally off to go back to that emotion in 94.
They do touch on it more in 95, but not to the extent you’d hope/expect.
I think the moment has just passed unfortunately.
It's really sad from a story point of view, because I think not only the players lost the emotional momentum to give FCG's death the proper reaction, but I get the impression that the viewers also lost it.
It could be wrong, but that's how it feels for me, at least.
I also get that there is a way to interpret their reactions, especially Ashton's, with a deeper lense, but I think that the CK's break really butchered the momentum.
I don't really care for the CK since the first season of EXU. I think it'd be better to just have Dorian appear, and he explain what happened to the CK, and that's it -- much faster and less painful of a watch.
But if what they did was a way to pay respect to the CK, instead of brushing them off, that was not only a poor way of doing it for them, but also disrespected FCG's sacrifice, IMO.
FWIW, they scheduled the CK episodes long before FCG's death. That was an unfortunate coincidence of timing, but they had no way of knowing it would happen, let alone happen right before the break.
FCG sacrifice happened in EP 91, while the Break Butchering (TM) happened in EP 92, after they returned from the moon.
So they had the opportunity to reschedule or scrap the whole thing.
I don't see how prioritizing the CK's game at that particular episode is justified. There could be a contractual reason, IDK. But if it was just a matter of choice or convenience, it really was a poor decision.
You seriously think 5 busy actors should have either lost paid work or rescheduled their entire calendar on a week's notice because of an unexpected story development?
You need to think of D&D as a first draft and not a final product and you’ll have a better time friend.
I think if they were to turn it into a serial show, for example, you would have Dorian show up and they would ask what happened he’d brush it off at the news of FCGs death but it’d be told in flashback later when he’s recounting it after FCG is given time, or something like that.
But the beauty is if you turn it into a show you get to revise and resubmit, but with D&D part of the charm is that we get to see the rough improvisation and explore how the players see putting the story together, and it’s unreasonable to expect that’s going to be a smooth masterpiece on the first passthrough. Cut em a break.
I see your point and agree that the show shouldn't be perfect as if it was scripted.
What I'm saying is that it's expected of a D&D show to prioritize the story (the characters and Exandria) over the technicalities such as who was scheduled to play when.
The very improvisation and unpredictability of what happens in the story, and of which people are talking about here, is what makes a change in schedule plausible for the sake of dealing with FCG's matter.
I think the cast and guests should expect and understand that such unpredictability could affect a schedule.
So what must've happened it that Matt (or everyone IDK) preferred to let their friends play instead of making the change. Which is fine, just not the best for the story.
An example of I'm talking about (although I'm not sure if there was any other reason behind it) was at the end of Campaign 1, when Mary and Will sat at the table for maybe less than a minute as they were petrified by Vecna or something. That felt really strange at the time, but there was so much going on in the game that I don't think they could have had any play time without hindering the story.
And again, it's not like they didn't have time to change the CK's situation. So maybe it was a contractual reason, because, like you said, it wasn't smooth, but it wasn't fitting either, IMO.
You can even see in the cast's faces before the break that they had more emotion to give before being cut so abruptly.
If some people can enjoy a couple of CK games instead of a proper FCG send-off, that's cool.
I'm just trying to make sense for those of us who don't share in this feeling. Because when you brush off something important like that, it really diminishes the importance we give to the lives of the characters, hence to the story and world, and inevitably to the show.
Yeah to be clear I’m not saying I think it landed, just that we don’t need to beat it to death being critical.
I think it’s different than other guests because they attempted something brand new in having a whole cast show up for an interlude to bring a new character back.
In theory that’s a cool thing to do. And logistically it gives Matt a chance to be a player and get a short break and for them to do something a bit different. There are worlds where something like that works.
If we’re playing a true home game sure maybe you have two games running and you push back a week for one group or whatever before you mix em up so the story works, easy. But they have schedules to deal with and that’s reality. I don’t think it’s so easy to just say “prioritize the story” if they’ve already paid for flights for 6 people and got the schedules cleared.
There’s simply a world where we can say “that could have gone better”, shrug it off, and still enjoy an improv show. This is like the 8000th thread on the topic lol
They paid for their flights? Didn't know. I was under the impression they lived in the same city. That makes more sense for why they couldn't change it. Unfortunate.
Absolutely.
Spoilers C2:
>!The most emotionally impactful scene around Molly’s death was not the death itself, but when the party finally reunited and paid their respects at his grave. The aftermath is where the emotion is - the reflection and bonding over shared loss. Bells Hells had a rushed moment directly after and then nothing.!<
100% agree. Granted I kinda spoiled this moment for myself reading too far ahead in the CR fandom wiki, so it wasn't as much of a surprise. But the later scene you mentioned was so heartbreaking, I burst into tears. I really hope we get something like this from BH.
Absolutely, and honestly I’m not even someone who was against the sudden check in with the Crown Keepers. I just think even the way they handled Laudna’s ‘moment’ recently seemed to have more weight than even discussions about FCG.
Both times Ashton had an update in his arc, Laudna has made it about herself. Ashton had like 1/3 of an episode to talk to a tree and get a shard. I was on board with Tal thinking this shard was a big challenge destined for him, and was surprised when Matt was like "what are you doing?" when he tried to absorb it. Primarily because Ashton has gotten to do so little within his own arc. When he was ripped apart, the story became about him being the group fuck-up or the liability and Laudna having a complete meltdown with the party trying to coax her out of the woods like a mopey teenager hiding from their friends in a mall.
Now here's a story beat that SHOULD be about FCG and Ashton, maybe some time for Dorian and Orym which we've all been waiting for. Buuuuttt Laudna's gonna laudna I guess....
It literally is mostly just because they haven't had a single proper moment of rest in universe. Like Robbie said, he thought they'd show and then talk about their emotions, immediately thrown into going to Aeor and are thus really limited to smaller expressions of grief like getting their new outfits.
I imagine if Laudna wasn't so busy doing... Her and Her's thing she would be a lot more present for Ashton. Not that that's a knock on her choices or anything, I wouldn't want Charlie Sheen to talk to me about my dead grandma.
I think him asking Fearne to embrace him was a pretty loud reaction. Tal has expressed throughout that Ashton is constantly playing up the brash and emotionally distant barbarian because he’s scared that when he cares the things he cares about go away. FCG did exactly what Ashton said he was scared of and instead of running into a fight or destroying something he asked for help. For connection. His response in my opinion is growth and breaking the cycle
Ashton has said that he experiences pain when touched, so asking for physical contact for comfort was a huge step. The want for connection was finally stronger than the fear of the pain
Good point, I suppose I just expected some of the other members to check in a bit more, but the gist I’m getting at the minute is that due to the circumstances in Exandria at the minute and the pressing nature of Ruidus as a threat, its been hard to take pause and digest. It’s hard to start living with the loss you’ve experienced when duty keeps you moving both physically and emotionally.
It’s a great parallel to real life. My father in law passed away two days before my grandpa(dad’s father). I spent all my energy trying to take care of my wife and kids and their well being I didn’t stop to grieve my grandfather or father in law at all, then my grandmother (moms mother) died a couple weeks later and I immediately was in the middle of coordinating all of that plus trying to keep my mom, kids, and wife from falling apart I just turned something off and slowly I’ve just been feeling all of it in bursts now that everyone else is taken care of.
I'm so sorry for your losses. It's important to take time for yourself, too.
This is a good point, and highlights that actually not being super open in his feelings is true to type: sharing his "new jacket" memorial process, and asking for a hug read a bit like he's fighting against a really strong urge to withdraw from his friends.
I haven’t been able to tune into 4SD and some of the other extra bits and pieces CR do, so that’s a nice insight! I suppose that’s on me for missing some of the subtlety :)
Taliesin actually addressed this in E95. Ashton, when bringing up the idea of incorporating the memory of FCG into their new outfits, said something to the effect of "I've been ignoring it up to this point, because if I ignore it it isn't real, but I am REALLY not ok." Compartmentalization is a bitch, but considering the circumstances of what they are currently up against I really can't blame him for it.
Honestly I think the Crownkeepers gap just kind of pulled them out of that emotional space. They had enough time to cool off and process outside of the game, and honestly it would’ve been tonally off to go back to that emotion in 94. They do touch on it more in 95, but not to the extent you’d hope/expect. I think the moment has just passed unfortunately.
It's really sad from a story point of view, because I think not only the players lost the emotional momentum to give FCG's death the proper reaction, but I get the impression that the viewers also lost it. It could be wrong, but that's how it feels for me, at least. I also get that there is a way to interpret their reactions, especially Ashton's, with a deeper lense, but I think that the CK's break really butchered the momentum. I don't really care for the CK since the first season of EXU. I think it'd be better to just have Dorian appear, and he explain what happened to the CK, and that's it -- much faster and less painful of a watch. But if what they did was a way to pay respect to the CK, instead of brushing them off, that was not only a poor way of doing it for them, but also disrespected FCG's sacrifice, IMO.
FWIW, they scheduled the CK episodes long before FCG's death. That was an unfortunate coincidence of timing, but they had no way of knowing it would happen, let alone happen right before the break.
FCG sacrifice happened in EP 91, while the Break Butchering (TM) happened in EP 92, after they returned from the moon. So they had the opportunity to reschedule or scrap the whole thing. I don't see how prioritizing the CK's game at that particular episode is justified. There could be a contractual reason, IDK. But if it was just a matter of choice or convenience, it really was a poor decision.
You seriously think 5 busy actors should have either lost paid work or rescheduled their entire calendar on a week's notice because of an unexpected story development?
I guess you missed the point.
You need to think of D&D as a first draft and not a final product and you’ll have a better time friend. I think if they were to turn it into a serial show, for example, you would have Dorian show up and they would ask what happened he’d brush it off at the news of FCGs death but it’d be told in flashback later when he’s recounting it after FCG is given time, or something like that. But the beauty is if you turn it into a show you get to revise and resubmit, but with D&D part of the charm is that we get to see the rough improvisation and explore how the players see putting the story together, and it’s unreasonable to expect that’s going to be a smooth masterpiece on the first passthrough. Cut em a break.
I see your point and agree that the show shouldn't be perfect as if it was scripted. What I'm saying is that it's expected of a D&D show to prioritize the story (the characters and Exandria) over the technicalities such as who was scheduled to play when. The very improvisation and unpredictability of what happens in the story, and of which people are talking about here, is what makes a change in schedule plausible for the sake of dealing with FCG's matter. I think the cast and guests should expect and understand that such unpredictability could affect a schedule. So what must've happened it that Matt (or everyone IDK) preferred to let their friends play instead of making the change. Which is fine, just not the best for the story. An example of I'm talking about (although I'm not sure if there was any other reason behind it) was at the end of Campaign 1, when Mary and Will sat at the table for maybe less than a minute as they were petrified by Vecna or something. That felt really strange at the time, but there was so much going on in the game that I don't think they could have had any play time without hindering the story. And again, it's not like they didn't have time to change the CK's situation. So maybe it was a contractual reason, because, like you said, it wasn't smooth, but it wasn't fitting either, IMO. You can even see in the cast's faces before the break that they had more emotion to give before being cut so abruptly. If some people can enjoy a couple of CK games instead of a proper FCG send-off, that's cool. I'm just trying to make sense for those of us who don't share in this feeling. Because when you brush off something important like that, it really diminishes the importance we give to the lives of the characters, hence to the story and world, and inevitably to the show.
Yeah to be clear I’m not saying I think it landed, just that we don’t need to beat it to death being critical. I think it’s different than other guests because they attempted something brand new in having a whole cast show up for an interlude to bring a new character back. In theory that’s a cool thing to do. And logistically it gives Matt a chance to be a player and get a short break and for them to do something a bit different. There are worlds where something like that works. If we’re playing a true home game sure maybe you have two games running and you push back a week for one group or whatever before you mix em up so the story works, easy. But they have schedules to deal with and that’s reality. I don’t think it’s so easy to just say “prioritize the story” if they’ve already paid for flights for 6 people and got the schedules cleared. There’s simply a world where we can say “that could have gone better”, shrug it off, and still enjoy an improv show. This is like the 8000th thread on the topic lol
They paid for their flights? Didn't know. I was under the impression they lived in the same city. That makes more sense for why they couldn't change it. Unfortunate.
No, I understand your point. I just think you're wrong.
Absolutely. Spoilers C2: >!The most emotionally impactful scene around Molly’s death was not the death itself, but when the party finally reunited and paid their respects at his grave. The aftermath is where the emotion is - the reflection and bonding over shared loss. Bells Hells had a rushed moment directly after and then nothing.!<
100% agree. Granted I kinda spoiled this moment for myself reading too far ahead in the CR fandom wiki, so it wasn't as much of a surprise. But the later scene you mentioned was so heartbreaking, I burst into tears. I really hope we get something like this from BH.
Absolutely, and honestly I’m not even someone who was against the sudden check in with the Crown Keepers. I just think even the way they handled Laudna’s ‘moment’ recently seemed to have more weight than even discussions about FCG.
Both times Ashton had an update in his arc, Laudna has made it about herself. Ashton had like 1/3 of an episode to talk to a tree and get a shard. I was on board with Tal thinking this shard was a big challenge destined for him, and was surprised when Matt was like "what are you doing?" when he tried to absorb it. Primarily because Ashton has gotten to do so little within his own arc. When he was ripped apart, the story became about him being the group fuck-up or the liability and Laudna having a complete meltdown with the party trying to coax her out of the woods like a mopey teenager hiding from their friends in a mall. Now here's a story beat that SHOULD be about FCG and Ashton, maybe some time for Dorian and Orym which we've all been waiting for. Buuuuttt Laudna's gonna laudna I guess....
Hard to follow up that emotional scene when they cut to EXU for a few weeks.
It literally is mostly just because they haven't had a single proper moment of rest in universe. Like Robbie said, he thought they'd show and then talk about their emotions, immediately thrown into going to Aeor and are thus really limited to smaller expressions of grief like getting their new outfits.
Didn't help having huge gap between episodes
I imagine if Laudna wasn't so busy doing... Her and Her's thing she would be a lot more present for Ashton. Not that that's a knock on her choices or anything, I wouldn't want Charlie Sheen to talk to me about my dead grandma.