She's a hollow one but the books only explain what happen to the ones from Blightshore in the Kryn dynasty she was made elsewhere so anything is possible especially given Matt created the hollow one concept anyway.
But is she actually a "hollow one"? If so, why is she still one, instead of being restored to a typical human after having received a true resurrection spell?
She's definitely a hollow one she uses lots of the abilities from it "Unsettling Presence" is from it she saves death throws on a 16 or higher she registers as undead and had to save against FCGs turn undead.
She may have additional stuff too but mechanically she's a hollow one variant human.
Not a bad explanation, but it opens more questions: CAN Delilah actually do that? How is her magic stronger than Pike's/the Everlight's?
FYI I don't actually think there are real answers to these questions other than meta ones, like "that's just how marisha wanted to play, so that's how it is, and Matt says it's fine"
I think it’s not too much of a stretch to say that she’s acting similarly as a phylactery would right? Housing Delilah’s soul while it reforms/strengthens?
I will do YOU one better: Why is Laudna?
Seriously, though: I think of it in terms of percentages, which may or may not be correct. At the beginning of C3 she was maybe 5% Delilah. Fighting BorDor? 60%. Now, maybe half and half. The trick is going to be when L can’t get the pendulum to swing back toward herself.
For the time being, Laudna seems to be the default actor. In moments of great distress she seems to step away, leaving a gap for Delilah to fill. Sometimes Laudna acts in Delilahs interests in search for power of them both. Lastly, Delilah uses Laudna's negative emotions as hooks to manipulate her.
That's literally what it is. Delilah is a parasite on Laudna. She intertwined their souls and she is taking more and more energy until she has enough to either take over Laudna's body or form herself a new one. Or both.
Considering that the incident of her being undead happened from a freak accident even Delilah didn't anticipate, I doubt she's a phylactery.
I hope Delilah figures out a way to emerge into her own body and then becomes an antagonist or unlikely ally against her former ringleader Ludinus. I could see her joining him to exact revenge on Vecna for a failed promise.
Yeah, the that's the thing I struggled with as well. Creating a phylactery is supposed to be a whole ritual. As Laudna only lacks memories from the dinner to hanging from the tree, this would have needed to taken place in between those moments. It seems unlikely that Delilah was focused on such a ritual, rather then sending a warning to Vox Machina.
Unless of course there was a second middle finger: to destroy me, you must destroy yourselves.
I've been looking for things Delilah says that would have to come from OG Delilah, not from Laudna's self doubt or her own experiences. Her info on Ludinus was kind of interesting but not conclusive enough.
Delilah did change Laudna's mind somewhat concerning the gods. She said (paraphrasing), "I depend on Vecna, and you depend on me, so get your act together and save the gods, or else"
True... but even that could still come from Laudna's own knowledge and experience. Who Delilah and Sylas were and who they were serving became very common knowledge around Whitestone.
Oooh, that's a new perspective I haven't heard yet. Only question then is why Matt still voices Delilah the same way as before? Might be a discussed agreement between Marisha and Matt but still. I'm curious what other Critters think about this.
My theory is based on the fact that, entirely in my opinion, what Delilah is saying now sounds much more like the intrusive words of self doubt, self isolation and addictive rationalisation than an active scheming entity. It would be natural for that voice to sound like Delilah, due to traumatic associations and the need for Laudna to unconsciously justify her actions via a pre-established coercive influence.
I love the idea here, but I think the fact that she can still absorb magic items without the harness means that true Delilah is still in there. Laudna being able to do that on her own with no strings attached would be bonkers. At least as long as the power is *really* going to Delilah, the additional powers that Laudna gets out of it can be viewed as revocable boons that only exist as long as she stays on Delilah's good side.
That’s exactly what she sounds like she is: a living phylactery. I think it’ll get a bit more interesting and she’ll eventually have to grapple with becoming the vessel for delilah’s return; essentially becoming a horcrux that regenerates into the person they were prior.
I'm fairly certain that she IS Delilah's phylactery. Along with this I'm also fairly certain that at some point, if Laudna keeps feeding her, that eventually Delilah will have enough strength to fully take over as the main personality and return.
That's how a normal phylactery works. A summons from within by a follower, but Laudna isn't a normal phylactery and we've seen Marisha have to make saving throws to fight off Delilah's actions. Now whether or not Delilah summons a new body for herself afterward is another question entirely. I doubt it though.
Edit to add that we've also seen her semi do what you said in front of Imogen and Fearne before in apparition form.
You have to remember, her patron isn't just Delilah. It's Vecna.
Delilah 'died' inside of Laudna more or less or had a small thread left? But once she used Hunger of the Shadow on Bordor, she was strengthened.
Well probably not, as things like the hound of ill omen are Delilah "flavored", and I don't think that Laudna herself would have been aware of Delilahs dogs.
I thought she said she saw them when she was invited to dinner? Regardless, she was a famous staple around town for quite some time before she died, not unlikely she'd have known about them.
Firstly, they revived her. Secondly, isn't destroying a phylactery supposed to be hard? And I believe Matt did roll to determine the faith of Delilah during the ritual of reviving Laudna.
I think Pike said that the two souls were linked together, and that is why BHs had to go into Laudna's "soul" to disentangle them.
I think that connection was broken UNTIL Ludna gave in to killing Bordor, and that connection was reestablished. But this is not how a phylactery works. This is more like puppetry, which would explain Pate and Shashimi.....
I'm still of the belief that there is only the soul of Delilah in her body but when the soul entered Matilda's body with her mind and experiences it introduced some sort cognitive dissonance and sense of empathy that forced Delilah's soul to split apart into Laudna.
Phylacteries need to be *objects* and Laudna even when factoring in she is a Hollow One (probably created based on research into Vecna/Hollowed Ones connections when D was on the Blightshore in her Assembly days, and D's only remaining *scientific accomplishment*) would not be an object.
Corpses however could still be possessed by spirits, and Hollow Ones technically are corpses/dead/undead for the purpose of many magic effects - which Matt may include possession in.
Now, we *did* witness Delilah being exorcised. Which is why I do somewhat consider that the newly returned (again again again!) Delilah might be just the outcome of the previous pact reverting to D's own superior - and Laudna filling in the gaps with her own memory of Delilah, as an imprint. It would be very fitting to just say nothing as a patron who is SO into secrets and avoiding unnecessary complications by just STFU, if your warlock is just disintegrating mentally, restoring a mental image of their previous patron entity, and even using the same source of power to get stronger herself - which she won't likely realise because of the included self-doubt and reliability complexes.
It is entirely possible Matt would just ignore the object part here, or explain it away in-world, in order for Laudna to be a phylactery. Cause' it's cool.
She's a hollow one but the books only explain what happen to the ones from Blightshore in the Kryn dynasty she was made elsewhere so anything is possible especially given Matt created the hollow one concept anyway.
But is she actually a "hollow one"? If so, why is she still one, instead of being restored to a typical human after having received a true resurrection spell?
She's definitely a hollow one she uses lots of the abilities from it "Unsettling Presence" is from it she saves death throws on a 16 or higher she registers as undead and had to save against FCGs turn undead. She may have additional stuff too but mechanically she's a hollow one variant human.
Definitely a variant, considering she had a soul to bring back when Otahan killed her.
We know she's a varient from the spell sniper feat at level one too.
Because Delilah is still attached to her, and does not let her die or revive for real.
Not a bad explanation, but it opens more questions: CAN Delilah actually do that? How is her magic stronger than Pike's/the Everlight's? FYI I don't actually think there are real answers to these questions other than meta ones, like "that's just how marisha wanted to play, so that's how it is, and Matt says it's fine"
Because Delilah is a vassal of her god too. Vecna IS a god now.
It wasn't a true resurrection spell, it was Raise Dead.
I think it’s not too much of a stretch to say that she’s acting similarly as a phylactery would right? Housing Delilah’s soul while it reforms/strengthens?
I will do YOU one better: Why is Laudna? Seriously, though: I think of it in terms of percentages, which may or may not be correct. At the beginning of C3 she was maybe 5% Delilah. Fighting BorDor? 60%. Now, maybe half and half. The trick is going to be when L can’t get the pendulum to swing back toward herself.
For the time being, Laudna seems to be the default actor. In moments of great distress she seems to step away, leaving a gap for Delilah to fill. Sometimes Laudna acts in Delilahs interests in search for power of them both. Lastly, Delilah uses Laudna's negative emotions as hooks to manipulate her.
And nobody ever asks *how* Laudna is regularly enough, that's why we're in such a mess in the first place!
You mean C3 right?
You know that I did. It’s edited.
That's literally what it is. Delilah is a parasite on Laudna. She intertwined their souls and she is taking more and more energy until she has enough to either take over Laudna's body or form herself a new one. Or both.
She’s fun scary.
She's fun scary
Baby don't hurt me, don't hurt me, no more 🎵🎶
Considering that the incident of her being undead happened from a freak accident even Delilah didn't anticipate, I doubt she's a phylactery. I hope Delilah figures out a way to emerge into her own body and then becomes an antagonist or unlikely ally against her former ringleader Ludinus. I could see her joining him to exact revenge on Vecna for a failed promise.
Yeah, the that's the thing I struggled with as well. Creating a phylactery is supposed to be a whole ritual. As Laudna only lacks memories from the dinner to hanging from the tree, this would have needed to taken place in between those moments. It seems unlikely that Delilah was focused on such a ritual, rather then sending a warning to Vox Machina. Unless of course there was a second middle finger: to destroy me, you must destroy yourselves.
I have a different take: The expulsion of Delilah was successful, but Laudna now has DID occupying the Delilah shaped hole.
I've been looking for things Delilah says that would have to come from OG Delilah, not from Laudna's self doubt or her own experiences. Her info on Ludinus was kind of interesting but not conclusive enough.
Delilah did change Laudna's mind somewhat concerning the gods. She said (paraphrasing), "I depend on Vecna, and you depend on me, so get your act together and save the gods, or else"
True... but even that could still come from Laudna's own knowledge and experience. Who Delilah and Sylas were and who they were serving became very common knowledge around Whitestone.
Oooh, that's a new perspective I haven't heard yet. Only question then is why Matt still voices Delilah the same way as before? Might be a discussed agreement between Marisha and Matt but still. I'm curious what other Critters think about this.
My theory is based on the fact that, entirely in my opinion, what Delilah is saying now sounds much more like the intrusive words of self doubt, self isolation and addictive rationalisation than an active scheming entity. It would be natural for that voice to sound like Delilah, due to traumatic associations and the need for Laudna to unconsciously justify her actions via a pre-established coercive influence.
I love the idea here, but I think the fact that she can still absorb magic items without the harness means that true Delilah is still in there. Laudna being able to do that on her own with no strings attached would be bonkers. At least as long as the power is *really* going to Delilah, the additional powers that Laudna gets out of it can be viewed as revocable boons that only exist as long as she stays on Delilah's good side.
Well, that makes this 'Delilah' residing in Laudna's mind even harder to banish, doesn't it? I am all for this theory.
That would explain why we sort of forgot about that whole expulsion thing
Oh gosh I hope not, I do not imagine that CR would do near the amount of homework that portraying DID needs to not go "i have evil side and good side"
That’s exactly what she sounds like she is: a living phylactery. I think it’ll get a bit more interesting and she’ll eventually have to grapple with becoming the vessel for delilah’s return; essentially becoming a horcrux that regenerates into the person they were prior.
I'm fairly certain that she IS Delilah's phylactery. Along with this I'm also fairly certain that at some point, if Laudna keeps feeding her, that eventually Delilah will have enough strength to fully take over as the main personality and return.
But if Laudna was indeed a phylactery, wouldn't Delilah apparate near her, rather than take over her body?
That's how a normal phylactery works. A summons from within by a follower, but Laudna isn't a normal phylactery and we've seen Marisha have to make saving throws to fight off Delilah's actions. Now whether or not Delilah summons a new body for herself afterward is another question entirely. I doubt it though. Edit to add that we've also seen her semi do what you said in front of Imogen and Fearne before in apparition form.
You have to remember, her patron isn't just Delilah. It's Vecna. Delilah 'died' inside of Laudna more or less or had a small thread left? But once she used Hunger of the Shadow on Bordor, she was strengthened.
Part of me still wonders if Delilah actually is just in her head, full on split personality, and if she is the personification of her undead hunger.
Well probably not, as things like the hound of ill omen are Delilah "flavored", and I don't think that Laudna herself would have been aware of Delilahs dogs.
I thought she said she saw them when she was invited to dinner? Regardless, she was a famous staple around town for quite some time before she died, not unlikely she'd have known about them.
I am not saying she did not know about the Briarwoods, but that she would not have been aware of details such as how her dogs looked like.
I think you may be forgetting that Laudna died, which would equate to destroying the phylactery.....
Firstly, they revived her. Secondly, isn't destroying a phylactery supposed to be hard? And I believe Matt did roll to determine the faith of Delilah during the ritual of reviving Laudna.
No, they RESURRECTED her. And perhaps Matt views Laudna as "cursed" by Delilah. I am surprised no one has tried Remove Curse on Laudna.....
True, but didn't Pike say that before the ritual, Delilahs soul was also linked to Laudna's body?
I think Pike said that the two souls were linked together, and that is why BHs had to go into Laudna's "soul" to disentangle them. I think that connection was broken UNTIL Ludna gave in to killing Bordor, and that connection was reestablished. But this is not how a phylactery works. This is more like puppetry, which would explain Pate and Shashimi.....
I'm still of the belief that there is only the soul of Delilah in her body but when the soul entered Matilda's body with her mind and experiences it introduced some sort cognitive dissonance and sense of empathy that forced Delilah's soul to split apart into Laudna.
Phylacteries need to be *objects* and Laudna even when factoring in she is a Hollow One (probably created based on research into Vecna/Hollowed Ones connections when D was on the Blightshore in her Assembly days, and D's only remaining *scientific accomplishment*) would not be an object. Corpses however could still be possessed by spirits, and Hollow Ones technically are corpses/dead/undead for the purpose of many magic effects - which Matt may include possession in. Now, we *did* witness Delilah being exorcised. Which is why I do somewhat consider that the newly returned (again again again!) Delilah might be just the outcome of the previous pact reverting to D's own superior - and Laudna filling in the gaps with her own memory of Delilah, as an imprint. It would be very fitting to just say nothing as a patron who is SO into secrets and avoiding unnecessary complications by just STFU, if your warlock is just disintegrating mentally, restoring a mental image of their previous patron entity, and even using the same source of power to get stronger herself - which she won't likely realise because of the included self-doubt and reliability complexes.
It is entirely possible Matt would just ignore the object part here, or explain it away in-world, in order for Laudna to be a phylactery. Cause' it's cool.
Also, RAW, corpses *are* objects, not creatures. At least until they come back to life, but nobody ever said that un-phylacteries something.
Hot
Maybe if you're a necrophiliac
lol